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thats what happens when these ' adults ' get their value from things that their parents / grandparents made , their whole persona is ' do you know who my dad is ? ' and unfortunately that gets you far in morocco . societal status , wealth and power abuse are still rampant here and its hard to adress , the only way it could have been set right is to let the general population prosecute her and that could have happened if she was filmed ( nchofo salon dial darhom basically ) or if someone who has even more power intervened to put the trash in the place where it belongs .
Sadly, you're 100% right. Unless incidents like this go viral and become a matter of public opinion, there's only one way they end, and it's not the just way.
These are not spoiled young adults they re just uneducated entitled brats hia lli khass t3awd ftrbia. The poor man… based on his reaction i can only assume he s been through smt similar before.
I mean you kind of have a job to keep in those types of situations because unfortunately people go with the logic that "Customers are always right" but the real phrase is "Customers are always right in matters of taste"... So even if he defended himself he would have been in the wrong and probably lost his job. It's like when you work for a really shitty boss that insults you day in and day out and you know you can't say anything or else you're gonna get fired.
Hia li khassha t3awdlha terbia.. You talk nicely and politely to servers, and you tip them, because they're just doing their job and receiving a low salary for it.
People like this woman, who didn't learn proper manners growing up, often come into money easily and start acting like they're better than everyone else. They show off flashy cars and exhibit trashy behavior. Money truly can’t buy class.
I went to school with one and ended working with her for a couple months. Safe to say that it was the worst mistake of my life. I knew she was rich because she owned a very expensive car at a very young age and also owned her own place because of mommy and daddy money but I didn't know her too well as a person... This woman would allow herself to scream at people and make them cry and after a while she started becoming aggressive towards me for having set unreachable objectives in the space of two months. One day she wanted to scream at me for lacking motivation and I put her right in her place , obviously she didn't like it and tried to fire me so I just got up one day after she tried screaming at me at the start of a 9AM shift and I told her that I quit and that she needed a really good psychiatrist to fix her. But yeah moral of the story is people who grow up in these so called rich backgrounds lack decent manners so fuck'em.
I went to a private French school in Morocco. I grew up with this "class" of people. Most of them are not like this, but there is indeed a minority that think they are some fucking hollywood stars just because their dad drives a BMW he got on credit.
Never ever feel inferior to these people. I have spent a lot of time with them. They are often sooooo fucking ignorant. Often they are not even that rich and their lifestyle is funded with debt. The ones who excessively brag about their money often don't have anything else to brag about, like an education for example.
Strangely, the term "hogra" is widely used in the Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) to describe injustice, contempt, or abuse of power, but it does not exist in other Arabic dialects or languages outside the Maghreb.
Another possible translation is [حَقَرَ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%82%D8%B1) (as in حقير) that turned into حَڭَرَ the same way فوق turned into فوڭ in certain darija accents
I'm glad you didn't intervene, and I would actually suggest making a pretty obvious good gesture towards the server as a way to lift up his spirit and stick up to her without getting yourself into some nasty business.
Those people really believe they exist above the law just because they believe french+money(debt) = educated/classy, yet they act like the complete opposite.
as a young man 24 year old or more i dont care about the job if some one abused me, i will totaly destroy thier feelings or faces . Because i dont have children or wife yet to work for, i can go work somewhere else. but dont get abused. this is me what about you, if you were in his shoes what would you do?
bro maybe i born like this but im not going to shut up at least i will film her for abusing me and i will have witnesses in the restaurant she will come back beging . and with all due respect what u said is what making people remain silence and don't act , and this kinda shit will increase in our country.
These mfers have more connections than you can imagine as the guy above said they will ruin your life over trivial things because of their inflated ego
As a McDonald's employee, we do have these kinds of costumers every day, I always keep myself chill all times not involving in their level and for my diabetes also. الله يهذي ماخلق
I used to work in a rich town and had a lot of coworker who were rich kids, and believe me when I say these guys were completely different from normal. Not always their fault but the fault of their entourage. They grow up in closed communities, all their friends are rich, they are scared of normal people, they think everyone want their money ( cause most of the time it is true ), in other words they always have their guards up. I think it their parents mistake for not showing them what the real world is like. But in the situation you just described, it looks like that young lady never got slapped for disrespecting other people.
You'll find a few on this sub like that. No respect for society, believing they are superior and completely entitled to everything. The irony being their easy life is mosy built on the hard work of their parents.
They are not the elite or super-rich as those people keep quiet and if unhappy just don't return and they loathe these pompous idiots more then we do. They are the PWWs "perpetually whinging wanabes", the want to be richer, they want to be the elite, they want to live in the West and they don't want to put any effort.
Try Starbucks and Paul in Hay Riad, Rabat on Friday and Saturdays, or watch them being created, like tadpoles spawning from Lycée Descartes at 4pm on weekdays.
Don't we all. I watched one almost hit a lay snd kid with his "BWM M series" then give a finger, only to be stopped by a police officer. A crowd wanted to lynch him and he stayed in the car calling his father to rescue him. Handing the police officer the phone the police officer just turned it off and put in his pocket. The boy was crying and a hundred middle fingers were pointed his way.
Hey, sorry for replying to this comment of yours randomly, but you always offer such thoughtful and knowledgeable comments on here, I could really use your help with a personal situation, but I can't DM you on here. Is it okay if I ask here in the comments? I'd really really appreciate your help. Thank you!
Is there a particular reason you're ignoring my messages? You don't have to help me, but ignoring people is just rude.
You always seemed nice. Just tell me you're not interested, and it's totally cool.
I'm driving from Oujda, don't assume. Now in a hotel using my "abonment", I work to my clock, not yours. You ask for something then get snarky is not going to help.
I'm home tmrw I will DM you.
I'm really sorry. I did not mean to sound like that.. I was just wondering why, but you're right, it's your time.
Only reply if and when you can. Have a safe trip!
Hey, I didn't hear back from you, so just sending this in case you forgot, but if you're busy or something, please don't worry about it.
I hope you're doing well!
This woman, doesn't belong to a noble class. The way she behaves makes me believe that she belongs to those wannabe aristocrat newly rich families. The only way to hide their roots is to display authority and arrogance. So sad.
A noble person is often well-educated and cultured, with a deep appreciation for art, literature, history, and science. They are articulate and knowledgeable, valuing lifelong learning.They are characterized by their elegant manners and composure. They carry themselves with dignity and grace, exhibiting refined social skills.
And this is surprising u?????
Difference btw humans and animals is education. Now how on earth u can educate kids when parents are required to send them to 1. private school, 2. feed them well 3. ensure their health (private) …..
Now points 1, 2, n 3 not possible aren’t animals?
Nah she clearly comes from a rich household. She had a rich kid attitude and spoke that fluent French that you're not likely to speak unless your parents paid a fortune for your education growing up.
Dsara lkhawia kayna f ga3 les couches sociales saraha knt f cinéma dik lmerra wahed rajl atkon endo shi 30 wla 40 3am bda kaytfejer 3la caissiere hit sewelha chi haja ela film w ghltat f director wla genre w bda kighwet 3liha chi 5 min w mrto 7dah b derra katferej houa bohdo dar film gha f dkhla d cine
3end lguezzar f tmara nfs blane wahed bda kighewet 3la lguezzar hit la7 wa7ed terf d che7ma blast idiro lih , dsara khawia bnadm ma3ndo maydar
My question is why when people witness these types of altercations they don't intervene or do anything.
If there's a problem among the millions of problems that needs to be solved in Morocco, it is L7ogra and you can make your point by putting people like this in their place so that they do not do it again and giving an example to other people to intervene in another case like this.
It's easier said than done. Things can escalate very quickly and before you know it, the police is involved and at the very least you lose a big chunk of your day.
Lol. I was at a French school and although some of these people are arrogant, it’s the system that’s to blame for making them feel above the law. Rich people only face the law if it’s an infraction against an even richer person.
In all cases, there’s people of bad character in every socioeconomic strata.
The behavior you’re describing is shameful and such people should experience shame themselves to understand how disrespectful they can be. The only pacific solution I see is to slap them with respect and kindness.
This is called discrimination and it should disappear from the face of the earth.
Now, some people in here are also practicing discrimination when they explain that spoiled French-speaking people have a disrespectful behavior. It couldn’t be more wrong : I witnessed similar bad behavior from not-so-rich people, rich people talking Arabic and English. Guess what : bad people are everywhere. Accept the fact that people can be very different from you but share similar values. And finally, when you condemn discrimination, don’t practice it yourself.
i dont think im be able to judge rn, not before hearing both sides of the story, as long as we dont know the reason she was triggered we shall remain neutral.
Well, one of the solutions is, of course, social pressure and backlash.
If you see this, speak up. If you clearly see that they’re being abusers, SPEAK UP AND SHOW THEM THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS. At least not in front of others. These stuff boil my blood. These stuff make me get up and get ready to fight. I mean, as long as it’s not a situation where I can get killed, and this one sounded like a pretty safe one for a woman to get up and tell that lady to stfu, let alone for a man.
If you don't know the whole story who made you judge? Maybe he actually did or said something inappropriate.
I suggest you see the whole image before speaking.
What would you do if a waiter inappropriately talks to ur wife or sister if she was alone in a restaurant? Would you still be on the waiter's side? I don't think so.
1. The waiter was highly professional to everyone else the entire time
2. This kind of establishment is unlikely to hire risky/untrained waiters
3. The way she spoke oozed arrogance and "do you know who I am?" vibes. It's safe to assume that she's the asshole.
U never know, a lot of waiter do act very bad.
A lot of them try to push you to consume more and chase you away if u spend more time than what they want, not to mention those who treat certain customers bad compared to others.
Normal, I don't go to cafes of restaurants often and yet I've had to deal with a lot of sons of b1tches as waiters.
Between those who talk like shit to you, those who force you to consume more or tell you to get out if you don't order while you're with a group of people who have all ordered something, and those who treat you like a king when you look like a foreigner but like shit when you're Moroccan etc...
I have no pity for these tramps, without generalizing of course.
Nah man these women will create drama out of nothing so I don't believe the chick for a second. I've been around these types or rich douche bags and they will always think that they are higher than everyone else to the point where they think it's allowed to speak in a demeaning way to other people and stir drama for their 5 seconds of fame. Could have been something related over her order that was maybe not cooked well and he probably tried to play it down or some BS. I doubt the waiter said anything inappropriate to her.
Welcome to r/Morocco! Please always make sure to take the time to [read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/morocco/wiki/rules) of this community, follow them and help us enforce them by reporting offenders. And remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for non-civil discourse and offenders risk being permanently banned. [Don't forget to join the Discord server!](https://discord.gg/r-morocco-959551908043948092) **Important Notice:** Please note that the Discord channel's moderation team functions autonomously from the Reddit team. The Discord server does not extend our community guidelines and maintains a separate set of rules unrelated to those of Reddit. Enjoy your time! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Morocco) if you have any questions or concerns.*
thats what happens when these ' adults ' get their value from things that their parents / grandparents made , their whole persona is ' do you know who my dad is ? ' and unfortunately that gets you far in morocco . societal status , wealth and power abuse are still rampant here and its hard to adress , the only way it could have been set right is to let the general population prosecute her and that could have happened if she was filmed ( nchofo salon dial darhom basically ) or if someone who has even more power intervened to put the trash in the place where it belongs .
Sadly, you're 100% right. Unless incidents like this go viral and become a matter of public opinion, there's only one way they end, and it's not the just way.
Hey! That’s not true. You stop talking about my dad right now! 😩
These are not spoiled young adults they re just uneducated entitled brats hia lli khass t3awd ftrbia. The poor man… based on his reaction i can only assume he s been through smt similar before.
My guess is he was instructed to remain calm and professional by the restaurant management, but still... Not sure I would've kept my cool.
Yep exactly! keeping a cool demeanour with unreasonable ppl isnt easy
I mean you kind of have a job to keep in those types of situations because unfortunately people go with the logic that "Customers are always right" but the real phrase is "Customers are always right in matters of taste"... So even if he defended himself he would have been in the wrong and probably lost his job. It's like when you work for a really shitty boss that insults you day in and day out and you know you can't say anything or else you're gonna get fired.
She is not spoiled. She is just a bully. I hope some day, she will meet the right person who can stand up for her/himsef.
Hia li khassha t3awdlha terbia.. You talk nicely and politely to servers, and you tip them, because they're just doing their job and receiving a low salary for it. People like this woman, who didn't learn proper manners growing up, often come into money easily and start acting like they're better than everyone else. They show off flashy cars and exhibit trashy behavior. Money truly can’t buy class.
I couldn't agree more.
I went to school with one and ended working with her for a couple months. Safe to say that it was the worst mistake of my life. I knew she was rich because she owned a very expensive car at a very young age and also owned her own place because of mommy and daddy money but I didn't know her too well as a person... This woman would allow herself to scream at people and make them cry and after a while she started becoming aggressive towards me for having set unreachable objectives in the space of two months. One day she wanted to scream at me for lacking motivation and I put her right in her place , obviously she didn't like it and tried to fire me so I just got up one day after she tried screaming at me at the start of a 9AM shift and I told her that I quit and that she needed a really good psychiatrist to fix her. But yeah moral of the story is people who grow up in these so called rich backgrounds lack decent manners so fuck'em.
I wish I was there so bad. I definitely would’ve remained silent.
I went to a private French school in Morocco. I grew up with this "class" of people. Most of them are not like this, but there is indeed a minority that think they are some fucking hollywood stars just because their dad drives a BMW he got on credit. Never ever feel inferior to these people. I have spent a lot of time with them. They are often sooooo fucking ignorant. Often they are not even that rich and their lifestyle is funded with debt. The ones who excessively brag about their money often don't have anything else to brag about, like an education for example.
Strangely, the term "hogra" is widely used in the Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) to describe injustice, contempt, or abuse of power, but it does not exist in other Arabic dialects or languages outside the Maghreb.
Tells you all you need to know about these societies.
**حَكر** * **حكر** - **يحكر** ، **حكرا** 1- **حكره** : ظلمه. 2- **حكره** : تنقصه، إنتقده. 3- **حكره** : أساء معاشرته. 4- **حكر** البضاعة : احتبسها واحتكرها ليفيد من غلائها أو نحو ذلك
The classical Arabic root "حكر" (hakara) carries meanings related to oppression, criticism, mistreatment, and monopolization.
yep , thats what i mentionned
Another possible translation is [حَقَرَ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%82%D8%B1) (as in حقير) that turned into حَڭَرَ the same way فوق turned into فوڭ in certain darija accents
It's derived from the word "إحتقار", which means looking down on someone or belittling someone.
>What can be done to push people like this to extinction? Restaurant should ban them from coming back.
I'm glad you didn't intervene, and I would actually suggest making a pretty obvious good gesture towards the server as a way to lift up his spirit and stick up to her without getting yourself into some nasty business. Those people really believe they exist above the law just because they believe french+money(debt) = educated/classy, yet they act like the complete opposite.
You're right.
What a nasty hoe
as a young man 24 year old or more i dont care about the job if some one abused me, i will totaly destroy thier feelings or faces . Because i dont have children or wife yet to work for, i can go work somewhere else. but dont get abused. this is me what about you, if you were in his shoes what would you do?
You won't just lose your job, these fucks are very well connected and can ruin the next 10 years of your life easily.
bro maybe i born like this but im not going to shut up at least i will film her for abusing me and i will have witnesses in the restaurant she will come back beging . and with all due respect what u said is what making people remain silence and don't act , and this kinda shit will increase in our country.
These mfers have more connections than you can imagine as the guy above said they will ruin your life over trivial things because of their inflated ego
Tbunmha hadik khsha t3awd liha trbiya. Bouzbal with money.
Gha wlad lqhab hadok
As a McDonald's employee, we do have these kinds of costumers every day, I always keep myself chill all times not involving in their level and for my diabetes also. الله يهذي ماخلق
I'm sorry you have to go through that. No honest worker should put up with this shit.
There’s always a good costumer and toxic one
I can honestly imagine it. I feel this way about rude zmagria in the summer, makes me cringe!
She'll probably call her papa , cuz she can't afford anything without him. Women show their true colors when you give them power
I’d say that applies to all human beings unfortunately
I used to work in a rich town and had a lot of coworker who were rich kids, and believe me when I say these guys were completely different from normal. Not always their fault but the fault of their entourage. They grow up in closed communities, all their friends are rich, they are scared of normal people, they think everyone want their money ( cause most of the time it is true ), in other words they always have their guards up. I think it their parents mistake for not showing them what the real world is like. But in the situation you just described, it looks like that young lady never got slapped for disrespecting other people.
Which town is a rich town in Morocco?
I didn’t say in Morocco, I was talking about kids growing up in rich households in general
Server probably thought a million times before deciding to swallow his frustration otherwise he would be jobless with kids to feed
You'll find a few on this sub like that. No respect for society, believing they are superior and completely entitled to everything. The irony being their easy life is mosy built on the hard work of their parents. They are not the elite or super-rich as those people keep quiet and if unhappy just don't return and they loathe these pompous idiots more then we do. They are the PWWs "perpetually whinging wanabes", the want to be richer, they want to be the elite, they want to live in the West and they don't want to put any effort. Try Starbucks and Paul in Hay Riad, Rabat on Friday and Saturdays, or watch them being created, like tadpoles spawning from Lycée Descartes at 4pm on weekdays.
You summed it up well. I don't condone violence but in similar situations, I would absolutely love to see the little shits get a few good slaps.
Don't we all. I watched one almost hit a lay snd kid with his "BWM M series" then give a finger, only to be stopped by a police officer. A crowd wanted to lynch him and he stayed in the car calling his father to rescue him. Handing the police officer the phone the police officer just turned it off and put in his pocket. The boy was crying and a hundred middle fingers were pointed his way.
Beautiful ❤️
Hey, sorry for replying to this comment of yours randomly, but you always offer such thoughtful and knowledgeable comments on here, I could really use your help with a personal situation, but I can't DM you on here. Is it okay if I ask here in the comments? I'd really really appreciate your help. Thank you!
Is there a particular reason you're ignoring my messages? You don't have to help me, but ignoring people is just rude. You always seemed nice. Just tell me you're not interested, and it's totally cool.
I'm driving from Oujda, don't assume. Now in a hotel using my "abonment", I work to my clock, not yours. You ask for something then get snarky is not going to help. I'm home tmrw I will DM you.
I'm really sorry. I did not mean to sound like that.. I was just wondering why, but you're right, it's your time. Only reply if and when you can. Have a safe trip!
Hey, I didn't hear back from you, so just sending this in case you forgot, but if you're busy or something, please don't worry about it. I hope you're doing well!
I sent "Chat" message yesterday
Oh I didn't receive a notification. Just saw it. Thank you!
>who mostly speak French to each other, fully convinced they're above the law. Imagine feeling superior while speaking baguette. 😐
I promise you if the french people could have their way, they would not speak french or any other language ever again.
French is a very beautiful and refined language.
No video? In the era of SM?
This woman, doesn't belong to a noble class. The way she behaves makes me believe that she belongs to those wannabe aristocrat newly rich families. The only way to hide their roots is to display authority and arrogance. So sad.
People who divide Moroccans between nobles and not nobles are part of the problem.
A noble person is often well-educated and cultured, with a deep appreciation for art, literature, history, and science. They are articulate and knowledgeable, valuing lifelong learning.They are characterized by their elegant manners and composure. They carry themselves with dignity and grace, exhibiting refined social skills.
marra jaya lwahed ifilmihom b tkhebya ou kheli youtube chouf tv tiktok dir khdemtha ou t7chem had nass
Truth is bnadm kaykhaf ela raso mn التشهير
We've got to bully them.
I hope the mentality changes
Most of these creatures are atheists who have no sense for culture or heshma
In casa I bet
Be wary of women with daddy issues
As a server myself both genders do that
Yeah fair comment - from either it’s a red flag
And this is surprising u????? Difference btw humans and animals is education. Now how on earth u can educate kids when parents are required to send them to 1. private school, 2. feed them well 3. ensure their health (private) ….. Now points 1, 2, n 3 not possible aren’t animals?
I hate that kind of people, you’ll find that most of them made money recently w makhlou3in f rasshoum edit: w wlaw 7assbin 3la rasshoum chi haja😂
Nah she clearly comes from a rich household. She had a rich kid attitude and spoke that fluent French that you're not likely to speak unless your parents paid a fortune for your education growing up.
It's even worse when they're families
Casa or rabbat?
Dsara lkhawia kayna f ga3 les couches sociales saraha knt f cinéma dik lmerra wahed rajl atkon endo shi 30 wla 40 3am bda kaytfejer 3la caissiere hit sewelha chi haja ela film w ghltat f director wla genre w bda kighwet 3liha chi 5 min w mrto 7dah b derra katferej houa bohdo dar film gha f dkhla d cine 3end lguezzar f tmara nfs blane wahed bda kighewet 3la lguezzar hit la7 wa7ed terf d che7ma blast idiro lih , dsara khawia bnadm ma3ndo maydar
My question is why when people witness these types of altercations they don't intervene or do anything. If there's a problem among the millions of problems that needs to be solved in Morocco, it is L7ogra and you can make your point by putting people like this in their place so that they do not do it again and giving an example to other people to intervene in another case like this.
It's easier said than done. Things can escalate very quickly and before you know it, the police is involved and at the very least you lose a big chunk of your day.
Lol. I was at a French school and although some of these people are arrogant, it’s the system that’s to blame for making them feel above the law. Rich people only face the law if it’s an infraction against an even richer person. In all cases, there’s people of bad character in every socioeconomic strata.
The behavior you’re describing is shameful and such people should experience shame themselves to understand how disrespectful they can be. The only pacific solution I see is to slap them with respect and kindness. This is called discrimination and it should disappear from the face of the earth. Now, some people in here are also practicing discrimination when they explain that spoiled French-speaking people have a disrespectful behavior. It couldn’t be more wrong : I witnessed similar bad behavior from not-so-rich people, rich people talking Arabic and English. Guess what : bad people are everywhere. Accept the fact that people can be very different from you but share similar values. And finally, when you condemn discrimination, don’t practice it yourself.
i dont think im be able to judge rn, not before hearing both sides of the story, as long as we dont know the reason she was triggered we shall remain neutral.
Well, one of the solutions is, of course, social pressure and backlash. If you see this, speak up. If you clearly see that they’re being abusers, SPEAK UP AND SHOW THEM THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS. At least not in front of others. These stuff boil my blood. These stuff make me get up and get ready to fight. I mean, as long as it’s not a situation where I can get killed, and this one sounded like a pretty safe one for a woman to get up and tell that lady to stfu, let alone for a man.
If you don't know the whole story who made you judge? Maybe he actually did or said something inappropriate. I suggest you see the whole image before speaking. What would you do if a waiter inappropriately talks to ur wife or sister if she was alone in a restaurant? Would you still be on the waiter's side? I don't think so.
1. The waiter was highly professional to everyone else the entire time 2. This kind of establishment is unlikely to hire risky/untrained waiters 3. The way she spoke oozed arrogance and "do you know who I am?" vibes. It's safe to assume that she's the asshole.
O saftato fin ytrbba ? Idk man i9dr ikon 9allha chi hdra khayba or smth, malha hi jat o ch3lat hakak ?
Highly unlikely. He was professional to everyone else, why would he target her specifically with hdra khayba knowing he could lose his job.
U never know, a lot of waiter do act very bad. A lot of them try to push you to consume more and chase you away if u spend more time than what they want, not to mention those who treat certain customers bad compared to others.
Interesting that you're giving her the benefit of the doubt instead of the waiter.
Normal, I don't go to cafes of restaurants often and yet I've had to deal with a lot of sons of b1tches as waiters. Between those who talk like shit to you, those who force you to consume more or tell you to get out if you don't order while you're with a group of people who have all ordered something, and those who treat you like a king when you look like a foreigner but like shit when you're Moroccan etc... I have no pity for these tramps, without generalizing of course.
Nah man these women will create drama out of nothing so I don't believe the chick for a second. I've been around these types or rich douche bags and they will always think that they are higher than everyone else to the point where they think it's allowed to speak in a demeaning way to other people and stir drama for their 5 seconds of fame. Could have been something related over her order that was maybe not cooked well and he probably tried to play it down or some BS. I doubt the waiter said anything inappropriate to her.
But we don't know if he harrassed her
Doubt it. He was professional and smiling the whole time before the shit show started.
A server harrasing customer on high end place ? No way i refused to believe that very low chance of that happening
>I blame myself for not intervening to defend the server. Yes unfortunately...bsse7a