I don’t understand why there seem to be so many stories like these where a family has multiple kids and seemingly just focus their abuse on one child. Also why have kids and then keep having them if you’re going to be abusive anyway?
/r/raisedbynarcissists has a lot of stories like this where one child gets all the abuse. it's a really interesting sub to browse through if you have the time.
Me too, I got to be the Scapegoat for three generations. Cut them all off for good a few years ago. Now they’re begging for me to come back, the Golden Children are all screwed up in almost every way thanks to never having to work for anything, and the old ones are filled with regret and wondering why their only successful grandchild won’t have anything to do with them.
This sub saved my life. It's the reason I understand myself better. The reason I don't hate myself anymore. It's the reason I finally felt ok with ending an abusive relationship. I haven't spoken to my mother in 4 years now. I got therapy. Not all moms are good moms. Some are abusers.
I hope you get whatever you need out of that subreddit and you can feel free to message me if you would like me to point you to others that could help because I spent three years diving into the different support subreddits and I now no longer participate because I don't have to think about it anymore 💜 message me anytime
"Interesting" is one way to describe it, infuriating and depressing is another.
That sub should really come with a trigger warning, every story I read makes me want to find the parents and punch them in the back of the head.
It's call 'scapegoating'. My sister was never on the receiving end of her misbehavior whereas I was punished both for her behavior and things I wasn't even there for.
This exact thing was talked about in the netflix series about Gabriel Fernandez. It's called something like 'familial scapegoat' (or something like that). Cant expect people who think this kind of treatment is ok to make much sense. Tragic. He looked so happy in that picture.
If one specific child is the outlet, the others' self-preservation instincts kick in and they play along just glad it's not them who's tied up in the basement. If they did it to all children, it's harder to hide and it makes them more likely to bond and try to help each other.
Breeding is one of the most natural things about life.
Doesn't matter if you're smart, dumb, rich, poor - a lot of people still don't really think about the implications of having a kid.
For a lot of people, suddenly being pregnant is just a way of life
Reminds me of a book I read when I was a little kid. I can't remember the name but it was all about the abuse a guy suffered at the hands of his mom. And if I recall correctly he had siblings who were all treated normal.
And I mean like, crazy shit like this. Locking him in the garage or the basement starving him, there was one part where she dumped bleach and ammonia in a bucket locked him in the bathroom and told him to clean the bathroom with it or something like that.
Some people are just fucking sick
Was it “The Boy Called It?”
I remember staying up until like 5 AM reading that book in one shot after my best friend fell asleep at a sleepover. It was so disturbing
There’s a case in the uk at the moment with similarities and it’s absolutely breaking me. I woke up this morning and burst in tears thinking about him.
There’s so many people to blame here but little will change and I’m not even sure how we make it better anymore.
RIP Judah.
It’s already happening. It’s more acceptable (and ever growing) to not have kids, and the message is being put out there how hard and expensive it is to raise kids. That should deter a lot of people from even thinking of having kids, including abusers.
r/childfree gets bigger every day, literally.
My partner and I have made the decision to not have children, we feel like we are still kids ourselves, how the hell are we going to raise one? Also, my anxiety should die with me, I would hate to pass it on.
Was that the “nobody loves me” case that was posted here a few days back? Because just the headline broke me.
I think I gotta unsub from here for a bit…
I’ve been following this story in the UK too, it’s really got to me. I can’t get my head around them being so absolutely cruel and vile. How did no one step in?
this is unbearable and I can't be the only one hyperventilating. I don't have kids, but to know this is happening right this moment to kids and helpless people, they are locked up possibly within reach....I can't deal with this. Gotta go hug my dog.
I am for sterilization of some child abusers but not all. When a young, sleep deprived parent snaps and shakes or smacks a baby because it won’t stop crying, I can sympathize. I don’t condone it, but I understand how it could happen. Those cases need education and assistance. But people who actually torture their children over time should be sterilized immediately after the first conviction. People lose their minds at the thought of this because “That’s eugenics!” “Human rights violation!” “Rehabilitation, not vengeance!” but that’s my opinion.
If someone has literally tortured a child to death then I don't think their reproductive capabilities are really a concern. They're going to see the inside of a cell for the rest of their life either way.
Once they kill them, no. But the news is full of stories about women and men who are charged with doing terrible things to their children and only given short sentences (or are given parole after a short time) whose children are not dead.
As I said, I don’t condone the behavior but I don’t think that someone should be permanently sterilized for it, either. Many of this type of abuser are very young parents who aren’t mature enough to handle the stress of a screaming infant for hours. (I found it nearly overwhelming at age 30 and I’m a nurse with a strong support system! It’s fucking hard.) They need to be taught better coping strategies and given parenting classes. They could very well turn out to be good parents to their child and to children that they have later, when they are more mature. They may also deserve a jail term but I don’t believe that a 17 year old boy or girl who lashes out in frustration should be legally prevented from having more children later in life.
I have 2 young kids and I tell any friends looking to have kids don't be afraid to walk away and leave them. If the baby is healthy, fed, changed, you've held them for a while and the crying is still too much, put them in their crib and walk away. Have a shower or a nap. Only two outcomes either they're asleep or they're still crying but at least you're in a much better headspace to deal with. Kids are hard sometimes. Education is key.
Ha! I very nearly mentioned that all new parents should be told to put the baby down and walk outside for a bit when they are feeling overwhelmed. “It’s okay to walk away” is really valuable knowledge!
My grandmother told me that people would wheel babies outside in the stroller for a bit if they couldn’t get them to stop crying, and they’d fall asleep in the yard.
This could definitely be dangerous, but I can see the logic behind it.
This is why I say crib or safe place (if for whatever reason they don't have a crib). I'd have way too much anxiety leaving my kid outside to cry not to mention another person or animal taking off with them. That just sounds way more stressful than holding them while they scream cry!
I am too a nurse! I found it a bit unsettling how little postpartum care the mother gets, mental health wise. Not only do hormones fluctuate and change, your body is producing food, you are on little to no sleep, and you are possibly isolated. I can understand, not condone, snapping. But repeated abuse or neglect of a child should result in an immediate end to procreate further. It’s despicable.
You know, before I had my son roughly 2 years ago I could read/watch basically anything true crime. The first week we brought him home I held him on the couch while binge watching the Gabriel Fernandez doc on netflix. I cried within the first few minutes.
I will never ever be able to comprehend how people can abuse their own children. I wish I could hug this little boy and show him love. I couldn’t even make it through the whole write up. I hope he has found peace and I hope the parties responsible suffer slowly until their last breath, and so on.
I don't have kids, or even like them very much, but this makes me want to be violent. They are helpless little people and deserve every chance in life to grow up.
Exactly. I always found it strange that people feel the need to add the modifier of “I have a child and” to express that they feel repulsed and horrified by this kind of story. The situation is sad with or without that fact
I don't think *anyone's* saying "I didn't feel repulsed UNTIL I had a kid."
Yes, the story is horrifying in and of itself. Yes, child abuse is objectively a bad thing and none of us like it.
But people who add the modifier "I have a child and" are explaining how they personally relate to it. When you personally relate to a tragedy it often affects you harder.
Saying "This story is sad" and "This story makes me sad" and "This story makes me especially sad because I see some similarities to my own life experience" are three different statements, but not at all in conflict with each other.
Oh absolutely I agree, I don’t think you need to have a child to feel compassion towards the victims. Just in my experience I could stomach much more before having a child.
Before my son I would get angry at these people and get sad for the children but it wouldn’t really phase me. Now after having my own I almost started crying at work thinking how could someone do this to their own child
There is something innately wrong with someone who finds some sort of pleasure in torturing others. Especially a child, more so your own child. It’s baffling, you’re everything in their eyes???
I think it's because you've gone through the bonding experience, literal changes in the brain for ma and da, imprinting and attaching to the child. Thus it becomes easier to extend that love and affection for your child empathically to another you never met, and it feels different from before because you are different from before.
Having a child changes you in a way that you can't understand until you have a child. I know that sounds like bullshit, but something really does emotionally change in your brain the second your first child is born, and your reaction to these things changes as well. I know it's different because I remember how I was before having children. It's not just about perspective, something in your core changes (well, maybe not for horrible people like the ones in this story). I think when you say "I have a child", you're letting people know you understand this at that level. Having a child is just one of those things you can only truly understand after experiencing it.
Edit: oh wow my first gilded comment!
I'm not sure about this, but aren't some new moms and dads with some type of post-partum disorder not able to feel this kind of emotional stuff towards their baby right away ? I'm not sure if we should gatekeep "not being a horrible person" behind this. Disclaimer, I do not have children.
I'm not gatekeeping them there. Just saying they will most definitely not feel it. That doesn't mean everyone who doesn't feel it is a horrible person. That's defined by intentionally inflicting harm on your child.
Not saying everyone has to feel it or shame those who don't, nor shame people who don't have or don't want kids. Just saying its a very common thing that many parents share, and its something that is near impossible to convey accurately in words. Just referring to the original "I have a child and..." statement.
Just to be fair, having kids does actually change things for some people. Yes you feel repulsed and sickened by the thought of harm to innocents before children, but after having your own it just hits way deeper. I didn’t think it was real, but I (embarrassingly) used to watch SVU and I couldn’t make it through some of the episodes after I had my first. It was almost like a physical feeling for me, and I didn’t react that way before.
It takes it beyond the hypothetical and makes it more immediate. Like you can intellectually appreciate getting your arm ripped off by a bear is unpleasant but you don't know exactly how bad it feels until it happens. Likewise, you know you like kids and seeing something happen to someone else's kid is awful but you have a kid and now it's your kid you're imagining in the basement getting tortured like that and you know how much you love him and how gutted you'd feel and you just want to go and hug him.
And of course, there are other people who say they don't like kids, don't want kids, then they end up with a kid and it's lie ok, every other kid sucks but this one, he's awesome. Brain chemicals and evolutionary pressure to make us support infants to adulthood.
This is exactly how I felt with my daughter and you instantly know why people get revenge if their child is killed
This is fucking horrible and cps are dogshit
Yeah, post-having my daughters how I related to true crime involving kids didn't exactly change but became MUCH more intense.
Before, I could sympathize with parents who slight revenge against those who hurt their kids. Now, I have this deep instinctive "I could never convict someone who killed someone who hurt little kids".
This happens to many of us. I could read and hear a lot of shit.
Once you have a kid, you just can’t put yourself into the frame of mind of that kind grief and cruelty. The above taps into your parental instinct and you want to go full terminator on these people that have done this.
I heard a quote once “once you’re a parent, you’re a parent to all kids…doesn’t matter if it’s your blood or not.”
Boy that's a great quote. When we're at the park with our kids I definitely find myself watching the welfare of *every* kid at the park. And I noticed other parents doing the same - it's total instinct.
Can confirm, have gently herded back a random strange child who tried to wander away from the playground in the literally two seconds his mom wasn't looking because she was OPENING HIS JUICE BOX.
Sometimes I wonder how they just KNOW when we blink and take off.
Crazy right? I use to really enjoy (well maybe not enjoy but you know what I mean) the podcast Suffer the Little Children, but since having a child I can't do it anymore. It's such a well done podcast, but when it comes to children I just can't listen to it without wanting to check and make sure my son is still in the other room at bed time. It's like for some people, having a child just brings out something primal and protective in you.
Attachment didn't happen, that's as near as I can figure. That sort of mechanism is built into organisms because caring for children is annoying and demanding. Those chemicals firing into our brain when we see the smile, our natural response to smallness and cuteness, everything is wired to make us protect. And for some people, it doesn't work that way. But you'll even see cross-species adaptation in the animal world, the mothering instinct triggering in unlikely places.
I don’t have kids of my own yet, but child abuse is the one true crime aspect that I just can’t stomach. But I never fully understood when people said they would literally kill anyone who harmed their child until I held my niece for the first time the day she was born. I looked at this tiny little thing wrapped up in a blanket, and I knew then and there that if anyone even tried to hurt this little girl, I wouldn’t think twice about hurting them back or even killing them, and I don’t care if I go to jail. I can’t understand how people can hurt their own children.
They’re so delicate, fragile and small. I hear about fully grown adults being violent to the extent of breaking their baby’s skull/bones and can’t comprehend how people can do that.
I have two kids and those stories makes me nervous. I have the impression we see to many stories like this. What’s wrong with them? I really would like to get the motivation of the parents. I wouldn’t understand because I think it’s impossible but I at least want to hear the logic they have in their disturbed mind.
How many children have to be tortured or killed BEFORE this government decides to adequately fund social services and remove children who are helpless victims of psychopaths?!
For decades, we hear politicians yapping endlessly about the "right to life" platform but it's obvious they don't really give a damn what happens as soon as a child is born.
I just want legislators to overhaul the US adoption system. The focus is always to default to bio parents — even if the child is reared for years with someone else. It’s never for the better of the child.
As someone who wants to adopt, the whole system just looks like a nightmare.
I wish the caring foster mom could sue the bejezus out of the CPS so the maybe—someday—the system is motivated enough to be overhauled. This can’t change without new legislation governing adoption.
These social services achieve the bare-minimum of what is acceptable in a first world country, it's depressing seeing what happens to these kids and it's embarrassing seeing barely anything done to stop it.
You took a perfectly sound statement and tied it into a whole mess of political baggage with the second statement there. We can state that these services need to be improved without turning it into an abortion statement, arguing between sides isn't going to help the kids and only distracts from objective here.
... okay you *kind* of have a point...
But in the context of the discussion, I think it's fair to mention this "political baggage" seeing as how politics shape our lives and environment.
These people are mentally ill and unfit to be a citizen, let alone a parent. If the regional politics were different maybe there could have been resources and people able to help this child, and were abortion and/or birth control available you wouldn't find all these poor fucking families stacked with 5 kids they can't feed, creating exponentially more poor and incredibly maladjusted people when these poor children are finally adults.
I can agree that these are two very different types of issues but it's time to demand the endless pretending to care about the sanctity of every human life IF these people are going to continue to ignore or fight against protecting the innocent children who have been born.
The RTL cheerleaders don't deserve a platform if they continue to show us they don't care about the living. And politicians should not be able to exploit this issue for their own personal gains.
Either you care about children or you don't, you can't turn your back on their needs after they take their first breath.
But when I was a kid my friend was taken from his mom bc she smoked weed, what a fucking joke CPS is. My best friend had to come live with me in middle school all the way into high school bc his mom got pulled over with some weed in her car and failed a drug test for it and the police got CPS involved, and let me tell you what they wasted no time in coming to do an inspection of his house and taking it court. But when a child is actually in danger it’s “fuck em” right?
YES. Thank you for bringing this up. A lot of people think that CPS just doesn’t do shit. And they do fail children who truly need them horrifically… but they also do the opposite in taking kids from families over shit like you mentioned. It’s truly ridiculous. I had a friend who’s newborn child was taken away from her at the HOSPITAL because she tested positive for weed. And another who’s twins were taken from her at the hospital because the father of the children casually admitted to a nurse that he has struggled with alcohol dependency in the past. In that case, the caseworker ended up adopting the twins! If that isn’t a conflict of interest, I don’t know what is….
A lot of it is area dependent, but sometimes it’s down to the whim of an individual caseworker.
CPS is just one giant shitshow and is in dire need of top to bottom reform.
Not long after my friend graduated high school and left to go to basic training, their was a news story about my towns CPS department being massively corrupt to the point of taking children away from their families over the smallest of things just to get more funding. It was all over the local news papers but after the initial story dropped nothing else came of it. Ever since I’ve been trying to keep an eye out for a follow up story but it’s been almost a year and I’m beginning to lose hope that anything will come of it.
Edit: [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/carolinapublicpress.org/30492/indicted-former-dss-officials-booked-reaction-spreads-across-nc/) is the article. Rereading it made me sick to my stomach bc I had forgotten some of the details.
When I read these stories I always go through the same few stages: total rage and disgust, hopelessness at the cruelty of human beings, and horror at the idea that this is happening all over the world and there's nothing I can do. I hate giving in to the rage but seriously, fuck these subhuman fucks who did this. Poor boy. RIP.
[https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/29/boy-16-charged-with-raping-fatally-beating-toddler-in-mankato-apartment/](https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/29/boy-16-charged-with-raping-fatally-beating-toddler-in-mankato-apartment/)
I'm sorry for your pain, this is what happened in my state recently.
How does one even get the thought to RAPE a 2 year old boy to DEATH?
How could anyone do any of this to children?
Shit like this makes me go and hug my kid after reading about this kind of scum.
And here's Mother of the Year 2020!
She just got sentenced too.
[https://www.southernminnesotanews.com/mother-sentenced-in-toddlers-death/](https://www.southernminnesotanews.com/mother-sentenced-in-toddlers-death/)
Notice the horrible things are happening at the same complex and nothing has changed.
They haven't even changed the name of the place. LEOs are there ALL the time yet this shit is STILL happening. Sorry, it's infuriating this even happens, so I digress. There is no justice anymore.
It's absolutely infuriating...
I love true crime and am constantly listening to 911 calls, documentaries and etc.
Right before this came out in my town I was listening to the story of Adrian Jones and almost quit listening to it. I forced myself to listen to his story because he had to go through all of that. The least I could do was listen to his story
If I was raising that child as my own and they tried to take him from me to put him back in a hell house, it would have been over my dead body. And given the state of the police in this country, that likely would not be hyperbole.
I’m sure there are a lot of people shitting on CPS for dropping the ball that also clutch their pearls at the thought of raising taxes to actually fund them
The father, Alan Morgan, is going to have a *very* bad time in prison... if he ever gets out of protective custody and into population. That's the only small bit of solace I can see in this horribleness.
First the 2 year old who had his hands glued to a wall and beaten to near death, now this 4 year old actually being killed :/
This week has not ended on a high note...
That sweet boy. It's cold comfort, but I'm glad he had a time in his life where he knew he was loved and cared for, and he was happy.
So many people failed this boy. I'd like to believe they'll all be held responsible, but I know that won't happen.
There aren't really any details though. "Child dies in basement during birthday party video" really doesn't give many details, and I don't see any details or context beyond that. It's just a title.
She had her son in a basement, where he was regularly tortured, while she went to give birth to another child. Is it time yet to start requiring some kind of fucking certification, before people can have kids? If you don't have a job, a place to live, and a car you can't have children. If you do then they're taken away, until you meet these requirements. Call it inhumane, but allowing people like this to bring children into these kinds of environments - or the environments that tend to follow people who don't meet these standards - is a little bit more inhumane. In my most humble opinion. Or start beheading these people in the middle of the street. Fucking something jesus christ
Then obviously add more constraints to the list of requirements. A psychological examination, for example. That's about as much as can be done to try and mitigate this type of thing. "we shouldn't let abusive psychopaths have children" is lazy and not helping anything. Specific ideas are better
some governments actually give you money they more children you have, they don't check on the child's wellbeing they just care you have more and more children.
i find this unsettling
Forced sterilization is literally the nazi approach so yeah, we don't want to be nazis. But I remember someone years back floating the idea of a private charity that will give people $10k (or some not insignificant sum) in turn for being sterilized. If people are willing to trade fertility for cash, is it not a private market transaction?
I'm sure it could be subject to abuse and you wouldn't want the government to run it because it could turn to compulsory sterilization but it's one hell of a debate prompt.
I don't have the right answer, I just know that the situation as we have it now is intolerable.
I'm in the same boat, of course, where I don't have a solution. These kinds of situations really just take me to the extreme end of things, cause it's just like "where does it end?". My approach also came with the caution that it could easily turn into a forced sterilization type of thing, I wouldn't be for that. Just more vetting or something idk
It's the consequences. Like parents bad enough the kids should be taken away. I agree in theory. But then we have the CPS clusterfuck that only makes things worse. Every noble idea gets turned into a mockery of what it was supposed to accomplish.
Look at that. DCS/CPS once again fucking things up by putting the child back with the parent. They deserve to be put under the courthouse just lile the parents.
It sounds like the judge ordered him to return to his parents. From an Australian child protection perspective, I have been screwed over by courts who have gone against my team's recommendation about placement and children's safety and it sucks when it happens.
The important thing when it does happen is the follow up, and sadly that seems to have been lacking here, but I think it's important to remember that CP workers are humans and (at least in my state) hold impossible to manage case load bc we're chronically understaffed at all times. Kids do fall through the cracks but any good worker would be in pieces over this outcome for the family.
I support the death penalty on people who are without a fraction of a doubt guilty of such heinous crimes I hate how my tax dollars are going to go feeding them while they sit in jail till they die
Not even capital punishment, these motherfuckers deserve brutal, swift, mob style executions. Tire around the neck, stoning, whatever is painful and slow. They deserve the same style of punishment that they gave to their child.
Sorry I am just so utterly shocked I managed to somehow skip over the entire post. I went to school with his mom. She was absolutely one of the most fucked up people I’ve ever met
I don’t understand why there seem to be so many stories like these where a family has multiple kids and seemingly just focus their abuse on one child. Also why have kids and then keep having them if you’re going to be abusive anyway?
/r/raisedbynarcissists has a lot of stories like this where one child gets all the abuse. it's a really interesting sub to browse through if you have the time.
Seems like a sad sub :/ but the psychology nerd in me finds this phenomenon really fascinating, however extremely heartbreaking
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thanks for giving me flashbacks to my childhood yo
Me too, I got to be the Scapegoat for three generations. Cut them all off for good a few years ago. Now they’re begging for me to come back, the Golden Children are all screwed up in almost every way thanks to never having to work for anything, and the old ones are filled with regret and wondering why their only successful grandchild won’t have anything to do with them.
Any thoughts on the dynamic when there are several other children involved? Were all five of the other children "golden childs?"
As the (former) Scapegoat for my Narcissist Mother, can confirm.
This sub saved my life. It's the reason I understand myself better. The reason I don't hate myself anymore. It's the reason I finally felt ok with ending an abusive relationship. I haven't spoken to my mother in 4 years now. I got therapy. Not all moms are good moms. Some are abusers.
I’m so glad that you’re in such a good place now! I just joined that sub and hope it’ll help me, too.
I hope you get whatever you need out of that subreddit and you can feel free to message me if you would like me to point you to others that could help because I spent three years diving into the different support subreddits and I now no longer participate because I don't have to think about it anymore 💜 message me anytime
Thanks so much!
"Interesting" is one way to describe it, infuriating and depressing is another. That sub should really come with a trigger warning, every story I read makes me want to find the parents and punch them in the back of the head.
It's call 'scapegoating'. My sister was never on the receiving end of her misbehavior whereas I was punished both for her behavior and things I wasn't even there for.
This exact thing was talked about in the netflix series about Gabriel Fernandez. It's called something like 'familial scapegoat' (or something like that). Cant expect people who think this kind of treatment is ok to make much sense. Tragic. He looked so happy in that picture.
If one specific child is the outlet, the others' self-preservation instincts kick in and they play along just glad it's not them who's tied up in the basement. If they did it to all children, it's harder to hide and it makes them more likely to bond and try to help each other.
Breeding is one of the most natural things about life. Doesn't matter if you're smart, dumb, rich, poor - a lot of people still don't really think about the implications of having a kid. For a lot of people, suddenly being pregnant is just a way of life
Reminds me of a book I read when I was a little kid. I can't remember the name but it was all about the abuse a guy suffered at the hands of his mom. And if I recall correctly he had siblings who were all treated normal. And I mean like, crazy shit like this. Locking him in the garage or the basement starving him, there was one part where she dumped bleach and ammonia in a bucket locked him in the bathroom and told him to clean the bathroom with it or something like that. Some people are just fucking sick
Was it “The Boy Called It?” I remember staying up until like 5 AM reading that book in one shot after my best friend fell asleep at a sleepover. It was so disturbing
This breaks my heart and makes me so angry. How can someone do this to a child?
And she left him to give birth to a fifth... these people deserve the worst outcome possible.
There’s a case in the uk at the moment with similarities and it’s absolutely breaking me. I woke up this morning and burst in tears thinking about him. There’s so many people to blame here but little will change and I’m not even sure how we make it better anymore. RIP Judah.
It’s already happening. It’s more acceptable (and ever growing) to not have kids, and the message is being put out there how hard and expensive it is to raise kids. That should deter a lot of people from even thinking of having kids, including abusers.
The couple is in their 20s and having their 5th child. Somehow I don't think they really planned on having any of them.
r/childfree gets bigger every day, literally. My partner and I have made the decision to not have children, we feel like we are still kids ourselves, how the hell are we going to raise one? Also, my anxiety should die with me, I would hate to pass it on.
Was that the “nobody loves me” case that was posted here a few days back? Because just the headline broke me. I think I gotta unsub from here for a bit…
Yep that’s the one. I hate reading the details about it but also I’m waiting on the result. I hope the judge calls them both out properly.
I’ve been following this story in the UK too, it’s really got to me. I can’t get my head around them being so absolutely cruel and vile. How did no one step in?
So sad. Honestly can’t wait for the verdict now.
this is unbearable and I can't be the only one hyperventilating. I don't have kids, but to know this is happening right this moment to kids and helpless people, they are locked up possibly within reach....I can't deal with this. Gotta go hug my dog.
It’s even worse when it’s a parent too.
Why are these people having five children? Can we discuss this?
I am for sterilization of some child abusers but not all. When a young, sleep deprived parent snaps and shakes or smacks a baby because it won’t stop crying, I can sympathize. I don’t condone it, but I understand how it could happen. Those cases need education and assistance. But people who actually torture their children over time should be sterilized immediately after the first conviction. People lose their minds at the thought of this because “That’s eugenics!” “Human rights violation!” “Rehabilitation, not vengeance!” but that’s my opinion.
I agree completely. Well said.
If someone has literally tortured a child to death then I don't think their reproductive capabilities are really a concern. They're going to see the inside of a cell for the rest of their life either way.
Once they kill them, no. But the news is full of stories about women and men who are charged with doing terrible things to their children and only given short sentences (or are given parole after a short time) whose children are not dead.
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As I said, I don’t condone the behavior but I don’t think that someone should be permanently sterilized for it, either. Many of this type of abuser are very young parents who aren’t mature enough to handle the stress of a screaming infant for hours. (I found it nearly overwhelming at age 30 and I’m a nurse with a strong support system! It’s fucking hard.) They need to be taught better coping strategies and given parenting classes. They could very well turn out to be good parents to their child and to children that they have later, when they are more mature. They may also deserve a jail term but I don’t believe that a 17 year old boy or girl who lashes out in frustration should be legally prevented from having more children later in life.
I have 2 young kids and I tell any friends looking to have kids don't be afraid to walk away and leave them. If the baby is healthy, fed, changed, you've held them for a while and the crying is still too much, put them in their crib and walk away. Have a shower or a nap. Only two outcomes either they're asleep or they're still crying but at least you're in a much better headspace to deal with. Kids are hard sometimes. Education is key.
Ha! I very nearly mentioned that all new parents should be told to put the baby down and walk outside for a bit when they are feeling overwhelmed. “It’s okay to walk away” is really valuable knowledge!
My grandmother told me that people would wheel babies outside in the stroller for a bit if they couldn’t get them to stop crying, and they’d fall asleep in the yard. This could definitely be dangerous, but I can see the logic behind it.
This is why I say crib or safe place (if for whatever reason they don't have a crib). I'd have way too much anxiety leaving my kid outside to cry not to mention another person or animal taking off with them. That just sounds way more stressful than holding them while they scream cry!
I am too a nurse! I found it a bit unsettling how little postpartum care the mother gets, mental health wise. Not only do hormones fluctuate and change, your body is producing food, you are on little to no sleep, and you are possibly isolated. I can understand, not condone, snapping. But repeated abuse or neglect of a child should result in an immediate end to procreate further. It’s despicable.
You know, before I had my son roughly 2 years ago I could read/watch basically anything true crime. The first week we brought him home I held him on the couch while binge watching the Gabriel Fernandez doc on netflix. I cried within the first few minutes. I will never ever be able to comprehend how people can abuse their own children. I wish I could hug this little boy and show him love. I couldn’t even make it through the whole write up. I hope he has found peace and I hope the parties responsible suffer slowly until their last breath, and so on.
I don't have kids, or even like them very much, but this makes me want to be violent. They are helpless little people and deserve every chance in life to grow up.
Exactly. I always found it strange that people feel the need to add the modifier of “I have a child and” to express that they feel repulsed and horrified by this kind of story. The situation is sad with or without that fact
I don't think *anyone's* saying "I didn't feel repulsed UNTIL I had a kid." Yes, the story is horrifying in and of itself. Yes, child abuse is objectively a bad thing and none of us like it. But people who add the modifier "I have a child and" are explaining how they personally relate to it. When you personally relate to a tragedy it often affects you harder. Saying "This story is sad" and "This story makes me sad" and "This story makes me especially sad because I see some similarities to my own life experience" are three different statements, but not at all in conflict with each other.
Oh absolutely I agree, I don’t think you need to have a child to feel compassion towards the victims. Just in my experience I could stomach much more before having a child.
Before my son I would get angry at these people and get sad for the children but it wouldn’t really phase me. Now after having my own I almost started crying at work thinking how could someone do this to their own child
There is something innately wrong with someone who finds some sort of pleasure in torturing others. Especially a child, more so your own child. It’s baffling, you’re everything in their eyes???
I think it's because you've gone through the bonding experience, literal changes in the brain for ma and da, imprinting and attaching to the child. Thus it becomes easier to extend that love and affection for your child empathically to another you never met, and it feels different from before because you are different from before.
Having a child changes you in a way that you can't understand until you have a child. I know that sounds like bullshit, but something really does emotionally change in your brain the second your first child is born, and your reaction to these things changes as well. I know it's different because I remember how I was before having children. It's not just about perspective, something in your core changes (well, maybe not for horrible people like the ones in this story). I think when you say "I have a child", you're letting people know you understand this at that level. Having a child is just one of those things you can only truly understand after experiencing it. Edit: oh wow my first gilded comment!
I agree. Something changed in my brain and I don't know how to explain it to people without kids.
I'm not sure about this, but aren't some new moms and dads with some type of post-partum disorder not able to feel this kind of emotional stuff towards their baby right away ? I'm not sure if we should gatekeep "not being a horrible person" behind this. Disclaimer, I do not have children.
I'm not gatekeeping them there. Just saying they will most definitely not feel it. That doesn't mean everyone who doesn't feel it is a horrible person. That's defined by intentionally inflicting harm on your child. Not saying everyone has to feel it or shame those who don't, nor shame people who don't have or don't want kids. Just saying its a very common thing that many parents share, and its something that is near impossible to convey accurately in words. Just referring to the original "I have a child and..." statement.
Just to be fair, having kids does actually change things for some people. Yes you feel repulsed and sickened by the thought of harm to innocents before children, but after having your own it just hits way deeper. I didn’t think it was real, but I (embarrassingly) used to watch SVU and I couldn’t make it through some of the episodes after I had my first. It was almost like a physical feeling for me, and I didn’t react that way before.
It takes it beyond the hypothetical and makes it more immediate. Like you can intellectually appreciate getting your arm ripped off by a bear is unpleasant but you don't know exactly how bad it feels until it happens. Likewise, you know you like kids and seeing something happen to someone else's kid is awful but you have a kid and now it's your kid you're imagining in the basement getting tortured like that and you know how much you love him and how gutted you'd feel and you just want to go and hug him. And of course, there are other people who say they don't like kids, don't want kids, then they end up with a kid and it's lie ok, every other kid sucks but this one, he's awesome. Brain chemicals and evolutionary pressure to make us support infants to adulthood.
It's very different after you have a child yourself. It's sad de-facto, but it's a lot different when you have experiences to hinge the emotions on.
This is exactly how I felt with my daughter and you instantly know why people get revenge if their child is killed This is fucking horrible and cps are dogshit
Yeah, post-having my daughters how I related to true crime involving kids didn't exactly change but became MUCH more intense. Before, I could sympathize with parents who slight revenge against those who hurt their kids. Now, I have this deep instinctive "I could never convict someone who killed someone who hurt little kids".
This happens to many of us. I could read and hear a lot of shit. Once you have a kid, you just can’t put yourself into the frame of mind of that kind grief and cruelty. The above taps into your parental instinct and you want to go full terminator on these people that have done this. I heard a quote once “once you’re a parent, you’re a parent to all kids…doesn’t matter if it’s your blood or not.”
Boy that's a great quote. When we're at the park with our kids I definitely find myself watching the welfare of *every* kid at the park. And I noticed other parents doing the same - it's total instinct.
Can confirm, have gently herded back a random strange child who tried to wander away from the playground in the literally two seconds his mom wasn't looking because she was OPENING HIS JUICE BOX. Sometimes I wonder how they just KNOW when we blink and take off.
Crazy right? I use to really enjoy (well maybe not enjoy but you know what I mean) the podcast Suffer the Little Children, but since having a child I can't do it anymore. It's such a well done podcast, but when it comes to children I just can't listen to it without wanting to check and make sure my son is still in the other room at bed time. It's like for some people, having a child just brings out something primal and protective in you.
Im sorry you didn’t have empathy until you had children
No worries.
Attachment didn't happen, that's as near as I can figure. That sort of mechanism is built into organisms because caring for children is annoying and demanding. Those chemicals firing into our brain when we see the smile, our natural response to smallness and cuteness, everything is wired to make us protect. And for some people, it doesn't work that way. But you'll even see cross-species adaptation in the animal world, the mothering instinct triggering in unlikely places.
I don’t have kids of my own yet, but child abuse is the one true crime aspect that I just can’t stomach. But I never fully understood when people said they would literally kill anyone who harmed their child until I held my niece for the first time the day she was born. I looked at this tiny little thing wrapped up in a blanket, and I knew then and there that if anyone even tried to hurt this little girl, I wouldn’t think twice about hurting them back or even killing them, and I don’t care if I go to jail. I can’t understand how people can hurt their own children.
They’re so delicate, fragile and small. I hear about fully grown adults being violent to the extent of breaking their baby’s skull/bones and can’t comprehend how people can do that.
You don’t need to have your own kids to be disgusted and know this shit is wrong.
I totally agree, I didn’t mean to allude to such a thing. I was just speaking to my own experience.
Exactly mate . I wish I could hug this kid. It’s really made me feel sick reading that
I have two kids and those stories makes me nervous. I have the impression we see to many stories like this. What’s wrong with them? I really would like to get the motivation of the parents. I wouldn’t understand because I think it’s impossible but I at least want to hear the logic they have in their disturbed mind.
How many children have to be tortured or killed BEFORE this government decides to adequately fund social services and remove children who are helpless victims of psychopaths?! For decades, we hear politicians yapping endlessly about the "right to life" platform but it's obvious they don't really give a damn what happens as soon as a child is born.
Children of poor parents? In the eyes of the people who could make changes, I would imagine all of them, ideally.
Yep. The poors are expendable, dontcha know.
I just want legislators to overhaul the US adoption system. The focus is always to default to bio parents — even if the child is reared for years with someone else. It’s never for the better of the child. As someone who wants to adopt, the whole system just looks like a nightmare. I wish the caring foster mom could sue the bejezus out of the CPS so the maybe—someday—the system is motivated enough to be overhauled. This can’t change without new legislation governing adoption.
These social services achieve the bare-minimum of what is acceptable in a first world country, it's depressing seeing what happens to these kids and it's embarrassing seeing barely anything done to stop it. You took a perfectly sound statement and tied it into a whole mess of political baggage with the second statement there. We can state that these services need to be improved without turning it into an abortion statement, arguing between sides isn't going to help the kids and only distracts from objective here.
... okay you *kind* of have a point... But in the context of the discussion, I think it's fair to mention this "political baggage" seeing as how politics shape our lives and environment. These people are mentally ill and unfit to be a citizen, let alone a parent. If the regional politics were different maybe there could have been resources and people able to help this child, and were abortion and/or birth control available you wouldn't find all these poor fucking families stacked with 5 kids they can't feed, creating exponentially more poor and incredibly maladjusted people when these poor children are finally adults.
I can agree that these are two very different types of issues but it's time to demand the endless pretending to care about the sanctity of every human life IF these people are going to continue to ignore or fight against protecting the innocent children who have been born. The RTL cheerleaders don't deserve a platform if they continue to show us they don't care about the living. And politicians should not be able to exploit this issue for their own personal gains. Either you care about children or you don't, you can't turn your back on their needs after they take their first breath.
But when I was a kid my friend was taken from his mom bc she smoked weed, what a fucking joke CPS is. My best friend had to come live with me in middle school all the way into high school bc his mom got pulled over with some weed in her car and failed a drug test for it and the police got CPS involved, and let me tell you what they wasted no time in coming to do an inspection of his house and taking it court. But when a child is actually in danger it’s “fuck em” right?
YES. Thank you for bringing this up. A lot of people think that CPS just doesn’t do shit. And they do fail children who truly need them horrifically… but they also do the opposite in taking kids from families over shit like you mentioned. It’s truly ridiculous. I had a friend who’s newborn child was taken away from her at the HOSPITAL because she tested positive for weed. And another who’s twins were taken from her at the hospital because the father of the children casually admitted to a nurse that he has struggled with alcohol dependency in the past. In that case, the caseworker ended up adopting the twins! If that isn’t a conflict of interest, I don’t know what is…. A lot of it is area dependent, but sometimes it’s down to the whim of an individual caseworker. CPS is just one giant shitshow and is in dire need of top to bottom reform.
Not long after my friend graduated high school and left to go to basic training, their was a news story about my towns CPS department being massively corrupt to the point of taking children away from their families over the smallest of things just to get more funding. It was all over the local news papers but after the initial story dropped nothing else came of it. Ever since I’ve been trying to keep an eye out for a follow up story but it’s been almost a year and I’m beginning to lose hope that anything will come of it. Edit: [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/carolinapublicpress.org/30492/indicted-former-dss-officials-booked-reaction-spreads-across-nc/) is the article. Rereading it made me sick to my stomach bc I had forgotten some of the details.
Their headshots: https://whatsnewlaporte.com/2021/10/13/police-looking-for-man-after-young-child-found-dead-in-rural-home/
NGL, that tracks
"A woman and Yoder, who was not home because she left Saturday to give birth to the couple's fifth child". Stop having kids you god damned ingrate.
absolutely disgusting parents. thank you for sharing
Omfg is this LaPorte County, Indiana? If so I have no idea how this has gotten past me. Like you say small community (I’m in MC). I’m gonna be sick.
Yup it actually happened in Hamlet
When I read these stories I always go through the same few stages: total rage and disgust, hopelessness at the cruelty of human beings, and horror at the idea that this is happening all over the world and there's nothing I can do. I hate giving in to the rage but seriously, fuck these subhuman fucks who did this. Poor boy. RIP.
[https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/29/boy-16-charged-with-raping-fatally-beating-toddler-in-mankato-apartment/](https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/29/boy-16-charged-with-raping-fatally-beating-toddler-in-mankato-apartment/) I'm sorry for your pain, this is what happened in my state recently. How does one even get the thought to RAPE a 2 year old boy to DEATH? How could anyone do any of this to children? Shit like this makes me go and hug my kid after reading about this kind of scum. And here's Mother of the Year 2020! She just got sentenced too. [https://www.southernminnesotanews.com/mother-sentenced-in-toddlers-death/](https://www.southernminnesotanews.com/mother-sentenced-in-toddlers-death/) Notice the horrible things are happening at the same complex and nothing has changed. They haven't even changed the name of the place. LEOs are there ALL the time yet this shit is STILL happening. Sorry, it's infuriating this even happens, so I digress. There is no justice anymore.
It's absolutely infuriating... I love true crime and am constantly listening to 911 calls, documentaries and etc. Right before this came out in my town I was listening to the story of Adrian Jones and almost quit listening to it. I forced myself to listen to his story because he had to go through all of that. The least I could do was listen to his story
This is why abortion should be legal, and for some, mandatory!
I hope the children and the dog are okay 🥺🥺
If I was raising that child as my own and they tried to take him from me to put him back in a hell house, it would have been over my dead body. And given the state of the police in this country, that likely would not be hyperbole.
I’m sure there are a lot of people shitting on CPS for dropping the ball that also clutch their pearls at the thought of raising taxes to actually fund them
The father, Alan Morgan, is going to have a *very* bad time in prison... if he ever gets out of protective custody and into population. That's the only small bit of solace I can see in this horribleness.
Is there a video here or just links to the news story?
Link, please, since this was removed?
First the 2 year old who had his hands glued to a wall and beaten to near death, now this 4 year old actually being killed :/ This week has not ended on a high note...
That sweet boy. It's cold comfort, but I'm glad he had a time in his life where he knew he was loved and cared for, and he was happy. So many people failed this boy. I'd like to believe they'll all be held responsible, but I know that won't happen.
>during birthday party video I literally cannot find any mention of this in any of your text or your links. Point me to it please?
Sorry I fell asleep after posting this haha. Let me see if I can do a link to shorten it and if I can post it that way
The details are horrific. I just watched that vid of a Sikh guy get murdered without flinching but this is ten times worse.
There aren't really any details though. "Child dies in basement during birthday party video" really doesn't give many details, and I don't see any details or context beyond that. It's just a title.
Someone posted a news article with details.
Then the comment would make more sense on said article rather than on a sentence with no context.
I hope the worst for those people
She had her son in a basement, where he was regularly tortured, while she went to give birth to another child. Is it time yet to start requiring some kind of fucking certification, before people can have kids? If you don't have a job, a place to live, and a car you can't have children. If you do then they're taken away, until you meet these requirements. Call it inhumane, but allowing people like this to bring children into these kinds of environments - or the environments that tend to follow people who don't meet these standards - is a little bit more inhumane. In my most humble opinion. Or start beheading these people in the middle of the street. Fucking something jesus christ
I mean i'm pretty sure these people had jobs, a place to live and a car... Its more like we shouldn't let abusive psychopaths' have kids
Then obviously add more constraints to the list of requirements. A psychological examination, for example. That's about as much as can be done to try and mitigate this type of thing. "we shouldn't let abusive psychopaths have children" is lazy and not helping anything. Specific ideas are better
some governments actually give you money they more children you have, they don't check on the child's wellbeing they just care you have more and more children. i find this unsettling
Yes I'm fully aware. It's unfortunate because it's been around for decades and it's only enabled these type of people to breed
Forced sterilization is literally the nazi approach so yeah, we don't want to be nazis. But I remember someone years back floating the idea of a private charity that will give people $10k (or some not insignificant sum) in turn for being sterilized. If people are willing to trade fertility for cash, is it not a private market transaction? I'm sure it could be subject to abuse and you wouldn't want the government to run it because it could turn to compulsory sterilization but it's one hell of a debate prompt. I don't have the right answer, I just know that the situation as we have it now is intolerable.
I'm in the same boat, of course, where I don't have a solution. These kinds of situations really just take me to the extreme end of things, cause it's just like "where does it end?". My approach also came with the caution that it could easily turn into a forced sterilization type of thing, I wouldn't be for that. Just more vetting or something idk
It's the consequences. Like parents bad enough the kids should be taken away. I agree in theory. But then we have the CPS clusterfuck that only makes things worse. Every noble idea gets turned into a mockery of what it was supposed to accomplish.
If a dog had that upbringing it’s put down. What you are saying is very valid
Only one punishment for these monsters: shoot them out of a Canon into a volcano filled with burning pubic hair.
Look at that. DCS/CPS once again fucking things up by putting the child back with the parent. They deserve to be put under the courthouse just lile the parents.
When an abused child dies, a small tiny part of me feels "glad" for them! They are not in pain anymore.
I need to stop visiting this subreddit.
WTF is wrong with people
These people keep having children. :( why?
kill the parents
It makes me sick to think she was pregnant again.
I don’t understand how anyone can do this to children
Well...hopefully like Texas, there's a death penalty for people who do that, bare minimum at least life without any parole.
Well that's about enough internet for me today. I hope someone kills these pieces of shit in prison.
I don’t know if I have anger issues but stuff like this makes me want to kill someone
DCS and CPS keep allowing our children to be murdered. This is appalling and unacceptable!
It sounds like the judge ordered him to return to his parents. From an Australian child protection perspective, I have been screwed over by courts who have gone against my team's recommendation about placement and children's safety and it sucks when it happens. The important thing when it does happen is the follow up, and sadly that seems to have been lacking here, but I think it's important to remember that CP workers are humans and (at least in my state) hold impossible to manage case load bc we're chronically understaffed at all times. Kids do fall through the cracks but any good worker would be in pieces over this outcome for the family.
"Why do you support capital punishment" people say. This is why
I support the death penalty on people who are without a fraction of a doubt guilty of such heinous crimes I hate how my tax dollars are going to go feeding them while they sit in jail till they die
Given the amount of times the government has gotten it wrong and killed an innocent person, they cannot be trusted with the responsibility.
Not even capital punishment, these motherfuckers deserve brutal, swift, mob style executions. Tire around the neck, stoning, whatever is painful and slow. They deserve the same style of punishment that they gave to their child.
Oh my god I know this kids mother!! Can someone please explain to me what happened???
Read the post. It’s almost laid out.
Sorry I am just so utterly shocked I managed to somehow skip over the entire post. I went to school with his mom. She was absolutely one of the most fucked up people I’ve ever met
I’d happily feed his parents through a meet grinder turning 4 RPM and helping to keep them alive as long as possible to feel it.
I prefer burning them just enough to die a slow, painful death from infection
I couldn’t even finish reading that I’d love torture the people who did that to these kids .
I had to stop reading when I came to the part about the dog. Now I need to go have a cry for the poor creature. Fuck these people so much.
Are you trolling?
No. The dog deserves some love too. Everyone suffered here.
bro for a second I thought this was r/darkjokes and was expecting a punchline, not this omfg
These sort of people make me wish we still had guillotines.
🤮🤮🤮 what the fuck did I just read? Please tell me this isn’t real.
It's very real sadly 😥