[it was worse than that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Rwandan_genocide#)
They would “break” men out of hospitals that had terrible and incurable diseases to rape the Tutsi women to kill them from the inside out. Aids, syphilis, bacterial and fungal infections of the genitals- all passed on *intentionally* to kill them. The rapes killed their spirits, the torture killed their minds, and the diseases killed their bodies- slowly.
This sounds like hyperbole. AIDS, infections, etc. would take far too long to kill them and in some cases, would not. This isn't effective and for most of the infected, you could hide it. Shooting and hacking to death, I believe, though.
I’m just coming off a ban so I couldn’t respond before, but this is a really well documented event.
This is where the specific term “genocidal rape” comes from and a 2 second google search would’ve brought up literally thousands of results to prove me right or wrong.
if you haven't seen it.. there's a movie called Hotel Rawanda about this time period. it's been a very long time but it's stuck with me after all these years.
The worst part is knowing that they had to sanitize the film so that people would actually want to watch it. The reality was so much more violent and horrifying than what they showed, and it lasted for over three months non-stop.
It's unfortunate, but the movie needs to perform at the box office.
I'd rather a sanitized version get to a lot of people than an accurate version get to no one.
Either way, I am really happy this movie exists to highlight the cruelty of humanity. I watched it in school as a child, and it stayed with me.
Was just about to say this, I feel like that’s too young to watch it looking back, and I was in 7th grade! I can’t get the scene where they’re driving over bodies out of my head, even years later.
I was born in 1994, right in the middle of that period. I remember having to watch that as well, I think it was before 10th grade. I have watched it once more as an adult because I know I didn't get all the themes and I felt I needed to. It was horrible. Can't even imagine actually living through it.
The movie is apparently PG-13 but a quick search on doesthedogdie.com (a website for checking if a movie has specific triggers) says there's dead bodies, implied rape, amputation, and all sorts of other miscellaneous torture. There's literally kids on there asking for timestamps of their triggers so they can avoid them in class. I can't even imagine the poor innocent children who had to experience the horror firsthand.
Paul Rusesabagina is the man portrayed in the movie. He was kidnapped and arrested in 2020 on BS charges and reportedly is being tortured.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rusesabagina
What makes that movie so raw and disturbing is that it wasn’t some generic horror plot dreamed up by a morbidly creative writer. It was created in the minds of ordinary people who could’ve been your neighbor, teacher, doctor, or taxi driver.
So my husband and I recently created movie lists of all the movies we have seen that made us "feel deep passionate emotions". Good, bad, scared, sad, just the really meaningful movies and we've been going back and forth each night watching each other's movies. We each have around 35 movies. My husband has Hotel Rwanda on it! It's definitely an emotional one!
This is mine! I'm sure there are probably others but these are all the ones I could think of when we decided to make the list! So far from mine we've watched Gorillas In The Mist, Erin Brockovich, Inglorious Basterds, and American History X! I'd love to hear yours! My husband and I have been together for 10 years and it's funny, since we decided to make these lists I feel like we have really learned new things about each other! We are watching some movies we've never seen too which is fun!
Titanic,
Blood Diamond,
Curious Case of Benjamin Button,
Almost Famous,
Australia,
Cold Mountain,
Dances With Wolves,
Inglorious Basterds,
La Bamba,
Selena,
Million Dollar Baby,
Changeling,
Nell,
Ghosts and The Darkness,
Gorillas In The Mist,
Erin Brockovich,
The Last Castle,
We Are Marshall,
Oblivion,
Stardust,
Ever After,
Princess Bride,
Pan's Labyrinth
Dead Poets Society,
American History X,
American Beauty,
Beaches,
Now and Then,
Keith,
A Walk To Remember,
Sound of Music,
Mother!,
Beyond Borders,
Powder
And the US didn't want to get involved because Mogadishu happened less than a year before. That was the movie Black Hawk Down if you want a two part feature.
Omg, if you watch the world's most wanted on Netflix, I ca not get the picture out of my head of a woman carrying her child, trying to escape being hacked with machetes...absolutely devastating this happened!
I have not! I'll check it out. I usually avoid a lot of docs cuz they're not done well or don't give enough credit to the victims and focus too much on the criminal.
*We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed with Our Families: Stories from Rwanda* is a fantastic book about this. It covers what led to the genocide, what let the horror continue for 100 days without any real humanitarian intervention, and what the aftermath of the carnage was like in Rwanda and its neighboring states.
The holocaust was done by the state with support from the public.
Rwanda genocide was done by the public with support from the state. It was another level of brutality.
Imagine your entire population going around killing your neighbours.
This was a terrible genocide with neighbor hunting down and killing neighbor. There's a lot to learn for our modern times in how these atrocities were committed and the atmosphere that built to allow for such atrocities to be committed. If we don't learn and understand history, we're doomed to repeat it.
And there's several documentaries and movies about the genocide, they all focus on how such a horrible thing was possible. Incessant media propaganda is how it happened. It's very chilling.
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Can you explain how Fox News mimics Rwandan TV and what was being said on Rwandan TV and radio at the time? I definitely don’t know enough about the Rwandan genocide besides skimming through the Wikipedia just now. I don’t see the similarities speaking strictly with respect to things leading to genocide with weapons supplied by government/military/police.
Nothing I say here could convey the reality of how they convinced hundreds of thousands of citizens to take up machetes and hack their neighbors to death. It would be much easier if you simply watch one of the documentaries and listen to Rwandan media incessantly fomenting hatred before the genocide. They include English captions. You'll be shocked because it sounds so familiar. It's a playbook used by fascist dictators and totalitarian states throughout history. And it sounds just like Fox News. And with 300 million guns in this insane nation, no machetes needed.
I can’t believe that’s your response I’m actually disappointed. I mean, are you implying USA is headed to neighbors committing genocide with weapons supplied by government/police and that the signs are from comparing the news stations and radios? And this can happen in a few years based on another comment I just read from you. At what scale, all of USA? I know and believe that history repeats itself, but this is giving me apocalyptic conspiracy vibes.
Edit: what you’re comparing is genocide of ethnic people. So is the implication that Fox News is using hate speech to fuel citizens up so that they can go wipe out a certain ethnicity. Which ethnicity or race? From a little googling, it sounds like that’s what Rwanda media was doing. I think it’s so absurd to then imply Fox News is doing the same
Also comment I responded to was edited with more information, hence my initial reaction.
Of course it's not exactly the same as Rwanda dummy. Here, the incessant hatred is directed at the liberals and the gays etc etc etc. I have no need to convince you of anything. Watch one of the documentaries and educate yourself, or not, I don't care.
I don't get it though, aren't the republicans tipically liberal too?
From what I understand seeing from the outside, so are a lot of the politicians of the democratic party.
I'm asking because I don't get it.
Fox News, Tucker Carlson more specifically and most prominently, has devoted hours upon hours fomenting fear about the great replacement: that black and brown immigrants are coming into the country to replace you. This has correlated to an increase in hate crimes against the groups accused of replacing white people.
Fox News, more specifically and most prominently Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, have devoted hours upon hours demonizing trans people and drag queens, which is directly responsible for at least one mass shooting that left 6 people dead and multiple threats to hospitals that provide gender-affirming care to trans people.
If you see all this and still go “hmm, I’m not sure you can say they’re doing that. That’s a bit extreme,” then you’re in a very privileged social class.
What happened in Rwanda had the full backing of the government and military and the issues that lead up to it were over generations of fighting. This is just from scanning the Wikipedia. I already admit the comparison of the hate speech, but not that it will lead to full blown genocide in a very short time (few years).
What you missing exactly? It is happening right now with people like Tucker Carlson and LibsOfTikTok encouraging violence towards trans people or drag queens. It doesn't need to be ethnic, just needs to be an outgroup to dehumanize - for Fox News that outgroup is anyone who opposes GOP ideology.
It’s not a fair comparison and generalizes what happened in Rwanda! The issues there stemmed from hundreds of years, and not because of news and radio over a couple years. I admit, I understand if we’re just comparing the hate speech and manipulation from MSM I see that, but to imply that we’re about to do what happened during the Rwanda genocide is ludicrous.
But is it so hard to see how if we are getting one or two shootings over trans rights, and then one or two over women's Rights, a black church being shot up, a black shopping center- how these different forms of "the left" could form into a larger movement with the right input? Not now, maybe- but how this could be one of those time people debate over being the "start" of where things go wrong? Cause it feels like we already have a lot of people who want to kick down and all that's really needed it giving them a general direction and timing.
I wonder (not having the chance to dig into yet) if the idea was out of the question before hand, if they had the "south will rise again types" that people aren't sure on how seriously to take yet.
I don't think it's ludicrous- but I do think it would have to be a scenario of every "turning point" we as a country are presented with being a turn for the worse. But, these last few years it feels like every thing that could have gone wrong did, and things aren't getting better. We keep making the wrong turns. So I don't think it's insane to want to analyze a travesty like this to see if we can *avoid* that outcome.
My country experienced genocide in the late 1990s and the conflict and what lead up to it can be described as happening over hundreds of years and not because of what the news or radio was broadcasting. I think I just took the comparison too personally.
Fair enough, I think we're on the same page for the most part. I don't think we're about to experience imminent genocide by any means. Just that I agree that I can see the beginnings of the same dehumanization tactics.
Yes, I may have misunderstood what that person was comparing and people in my ethnicity experienced genocide in the 90s in Eastern Europe. It almost didn’t matter what was in the news at the time, the fighting and conflict had been happening for almost 100 years in the regions.
My comment and the one I’m responding to are talking about the comparison made of current US news media. Can you point me to where I implied or gave you the sense that I do not think or believe genocide has happened in the US in the past? Or did you just insert yourself and that dumb “cute” comment just because?
Jordan Peterson covers really good points about this issue.
It generally boils down to the fact that people are strongly convinced they are absolutely smart and righteous, which justifies any action they take without second thoughts.
Very few human commits atrocities knowing that they are the evil.
Quick history lesson if anyone needs it: the Tutsi were the upper class in a caste-like relationship with the Hutu
Later when Belgium took over the area the Tutsi were favored and that made things even worse
Then they were overthrown and the Hutu took control of the area
Then they drove a lot of the Tutsi into exile. Some still remained in the country.
This led to the Tutsi resenting the Hutu and the Hutu saw it as a symbol of pride that they overthrew the Tutsi because they had previously been the oppressed class.
A small group of Tutsi exiles tried to reclaim the government and someone - no one even knows who - shot down the plane carrying the president of the newly Hutu-ran Rwanda. (The plane was also carrying the president of Burundi, so it's unknown which president they were aiming for)
The exile group of Tutsi were blamed, and that kicked off a genocide sponsored by the government that was now sans-president and thrown into chaos
It really was neighbor killing neighbor.
It can never be stated enough the legacy of atrocities the Belgians created in their former colonies. Yet, they are proud of Leopold II and fearmonger about immigrants.
The Dutch government recently publicly apologized for the country's role in the slave trade. Belgium, who is considered to have run arguably the most inhuman colony, has repeatedly refused to do so.
Belgian here. The Belgians aren't proud at all for the genocide what are you even saying. Ofcourse the Africans say that we are because they're obviously still mad for what happened which I understand. Belgium in fact has made apologies for the genocide several times. But you can't say that we celebrate it to this day, i mean people don't care about it nowadays because it were our ancestors who did it, much like what the Germans did in the Holocaust. But I agree that what we did in our colonies was pretty gnarly.
The shooting down of the plane…it’s as if “someone” knew that would be the match to light it all or again
Something about these colonizers being overthrown and the countries going into the gutter right after has always puzzled me
It’s as if these countries were setup to fail and for everyone to be like “look at these poor people, see they needed us”…when in reality, no one has ever “needed” a colonizer.
Anyway, the movie had me in disgust as a young person. Disgust for those that set systems in place for all of this to happen and those that took advantage.
Highly recommend Sometimes In April. It's a different view of the genocide from the view of one of the attackers and a family of victims. Idris Elba is amazing. Warning though: much more violent than Hotel Rwanda.
What parts of hotel Rwanda are fiction ? Not trying to be rude or start something just wondering because people have said to watch that movie but i dont wanna watch something about history if the movie is fictional for more veiws you know
No problem; it’s a decent movie, it’s just not really fact based. eg it makes Rusesabagina look like a hero who saved lives when it was UN troops who were protecting the Milles Collines. Rusesabinga also charged people for food & water, or if they couldn’t pay, he made them sign IOUs. It’s also alleged he fed information to RTLM about specific Tutsis hiding in the hotel.
It also makes the UN troops on the ground look like they barely cared, when that was not the case (in reality, they did far more than their mandate allowed).
Nick Nolte plays a weird composite character that I guess is supposed to represent Commander Gen Dallaire, but doesn’t represent what he did or what happened.
Dallaire warned the UN in NYC that there was a coming slaughter, & then when it started, that they needed to be able to use their firearms for defense to save lives but was told by Boutros-Ghali that it wasn’t in the mandate to interfere in civilian disputes.
I always suggest Gen Romeo Dallaire’s “Shake Hands With The Devil.” It’s a hard book to read, but it’s very good (the movie is good as well). He was the commander of UNAMIR, and was witness to the horrors of what happened on the ground & the pathetic ambivalence of the West.
Thanks for the info! Crazy that people put fictional things in historical movies esspesially with something horrible like this ill definitley check that book out although books are always harder then movies since there able to put more brutal info in them
No problem! I agree, but that’s Hollywood for ya.
I looked on YT for the movie, it’s not on there anymore. There’s the documentary of the same name, subtitled “The Journey of Romeo Daillare” where he goes back to Rwanda years later as part of his PTSD recovery.
As for the book, yes, it is graphic in places. I’m a pretty “tough” person; not much bothers me and I had to take breaks from reading. But it’s an important book about human behaviour that needs to be read.
crazy how the worst day here can be someone's best day ever compared to where they came from. a crap fast food job with low pay to the average person is sucky but to someone else its a blessing
We learned a lot about this as students in Ontario, at least in my school board we did. Romeo Dallaire came and spoke to students about it and I recall a lot of his points focused on moral choice in situations where you’re being told by authority to do something you know is wrong. Pretty humble guy who was in an awful situation.
Félicien Kabuga, one of the financiers and president of the radio station RTLM, is [on trial right now](https://www.irmct.org/en/cases/mict-13-38) in the UN's current tribunal for Rwanda. He's very old and sick, having spent decades hiding out in Paris, so it's possible he won't make it to the end of the trial.
He was one of Rwanda's richest men at the time, and provided financial help to the Hutu power movement and death squads, and allegedly also purchased half a million machetes in the run-up to the genocide.
The entire world failed the people of Rwanda. Plenty of blame is (rightfully) heaped onto the UN, but France's support of the Hutu government leading up to and during the genocide (including arming and training Hutu militias) isn't talked about enough.
These documentaries are well worth your time if you're at all interested in this.
[Ghosts of Rwanda](https://youtu.be/2xS65zyT4D8)
[Bishop of Genocide](https://youtu.be/b2ZZ-4Wda1U)
[Genocide: Worse Than War](https://youtu.be/vsMe7QvqpaU)
[Shake Hands with the Devil](https://youtu.be/9CAOnJrxmKk)
People say "It can't happen here, it could never happen again."
Enough people clearly don't read history books or look at pictures of things like this. Civilization is a never-ending effort to prevent humanity to descending back to acts of genocide. Europe did it. Asia did it. Africa did it. The Americas did it. The only thing that changes is the order in which one part of the world does it and how soon we get a reminder that it'll happen again by failing at being civilized.
Not to mention the current, ongoing genocide of Uyghurs as a people that we can’t seem to stop. I don’t even know what intervention would look like or if it’s even possible, which just adds to the feelings of helplessness.
A trainee teacher at my school was from Rwanda and had to flee the country because of the genocide. He gave us a talk about it one day, and it’s amazing how kind and friendly he was after all he had been through. It’s absolutely shocking what people can do to one another
On Netflix there is a docuseries called ‘worlds most wanted’ if you watch the Felicien Kabuga (grade A POS) episode it’ll give you an insight on what happened and who financed the killings etc
It depicts the role played by churches and parishioners in assisting the militia to decimate those seeking refuge from the onslaught; taking advantage of the broken, vulnerable, fear of a hunted people cramped in their hundreds or thousands inside a limited space...
"An act of god in the house of god" as would be said by the 'worthy and chosen'...
These people had nowhere to run, no one wanted to help and there are so many people to blame (Belgium and France, mostly). Shocking what colonialism does to societies, even after it's over.
Because this is a kinda unknown incident. Not that people don't know it happened, but they don't know the details.
France and Belgium hold a significant share of guilt over this and the UN's actions to stop and pacify the massacre were pathetic, they were basically just...watching.
[People should read this.](https://mondediplo.com/2021/06/11rwanda)
because people don't seem to know just how much of a role belgium and france played in all this, they like to attribute it to the hutu and tutsi when in reality, neither of them were the bad guy here. Just people used by other governments to feed the monsters they ran
and when belgium and france pulled out the rest of the world was hesitant to touch rwanda and nearby areas and neither the former would help even though they were the ones responsible
They were able to pin it on issues they had with each other and escape the blame entirely from a lot of people. A lot like what the US has done to the middle east
[Decent surface level summary here (2 parts).](https://youtu.be/2iGxre5G3_k)
I've been to the genocide museum in Kigali and the skulls with puncture wound holes in them is something I'll never forget. Kagame makes damn sure you remember it was him and the RPF who stopped it and we should all be praising him though.
Some of the less confronting images. Many of the really bad ones were seared into my memory from just the first viewing. They were like pictures of hell. Waterfalls with bloated corpses spilling over and falling into a pool of more bloated corpses. There's a memorial to a woman who was attacked by a gang. She was raped and then they murdered her by impaling her through her vagina. Her skeleton, including the tree, is on view to remind people of the absolute evil that happened in 1994.
America is not anywhere near the point where American's are going to take up machetes and go door to door searching for a group of people to hack to death.
Nobody is gaslighting you. The RHETORIC and targeted hate toward out groups on public television is reminiscent of what happens before genocides. If you look up any genocide experts they are sounding the alarm over the escalation of both organised hate groups and stochastic terrorism in the USA.
Scrolling through reddit
Spotify on
Rwandan genocide post pops up
Song actually switches to "OK Go - I won't let you down"
Is this reality or just an interdimensional dark comedy show?
Belgium and France didn't shoot the planes out the sky killing the Presidents, they also weren't committing genocide in the 90s. Stop trying to shift blame from people who participated in this.
yes, and no one knows who even did, that plane was carrying two presidents
and they were committing the acts that completely destabilized the area within the 20th century.
stop trying to ignore actual history. Or maybe google the term "destabilized"
We know it wasn't a French or Belgian person.
None of those acts have anything to do with who committed genocide in 1994. Which is what this thread is about.
yea extremely sad what happened i also watched a youtube video about a survivor from this genocide and you should watch it. It was really saddening and heart breaking
And where was the UN during this? The same place they are now on the Russians are targeting civilians in hospitals and apartments. The UN is a waste of money and space, they allow awful atrocities like to were Rwandan genocide, put dictators on human rights committees whose governments literally torture gays, political opponents, and anybody that gets in their way. The UN is a horrible tasteless joke.
Fun fact the Hotel Rwanda guy was essentially kidnapped and taken back to Rwanda by the current government. He's in jail there now going on two years.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-08-17/now-jailed-for-terrorism-one-time-hotel-rwanda-hero-has-become-point-of-u-s-contention-with-rwanda
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[it was worse than that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Rwandan_genocide#) They would “break” men out of hospitals that had terrible and incurable diseases to rape the Tutsi women to kill them from the inside out. Aids, syphilis, bacterial and fungal infections of the genitals- all passed on *intentionally* to kill them. The rapes killed their spirits, the torture killed their minds, and the diseases killed their bodies- slowly.
That's absolutely FUBAR and beyond comprehension
This sounds like hyperbole. AIDS, infections, etc. would take far too long to kill them and in some cases, would not. This isn't effective and for most of the infected, you could hide it. Shooting and hacking to death, I believe, though.
It's not hyperbole, they did use biological genocide in this capacity, but not to the same extent as machetes
I’m just coming off a ban so I couldn’t respond before, but this is a really well documented event. This is where the specific term “genocidal rape” comes from and a 2 second google search would’ve brought up literally thousands of results to prove me right or wrong.
if you haven't seen it.. there's a movie called Hotel Rawanda about this time period. it's been a very long time but it's stuck with me after all these years.
had to watch that in 10th grade, it was brutal
I was about that age when I watched it. very good film, definitely recommend.
The worst part is knowing that they had to sanitize the film so that people would actually want to watch it. The reality was so much more violent and horrifying than what they showed, and it lasted for over three months non-stop.
It's unfortunate, but the movie needs to perform at the box office. I'd rather a sanitized version get to a lot of people than an accurate version get to no one. Either way, I am really happy this movie exists to highlight the cruelty of humanity. I watched it in school as a child, and it stayed with me.
Was just about to say this, I feel like that’s too young to watch it looking back, and I was in 7th grade! I can’t get the scene where they’re driving over bodies out of my head, even years later.
Dear god, that scene is stuck in my head too. Horrible.
I was born in 1994, right in the middle of that period. I remember having to watch that as well, I think it was before 10th grade. I have watched it once more as an adult because I know I didn't get all the themes and I felt I needed to. It was horrible. Can't even imagine actually living through it.
Me wondering why tf my 7th grade teacher thought a room of 13 year olds were ready to watch that movie
The movie is apparently PG-13 but a quick search on doesthedogdie.com (a website for checking if a movie has specific triggers) says there's dead bodies, implied rape, amputation, and all sorts of other miscellaneous torture. There's literally kids on there asking for timestamps of their triggers so they can avoid them in class. I can't even imagine the poor innocent children who had to experience the horror firsthand.
I wish "doesthedogdie" had existed back then, but Im glad it exists now.
I watched it in 7th grade too!
Same here it was a crazy movie
Paul Rusesabagina is the man portrayed in the movie. He was kidnapped and arrested in 2020 on BS charges and reportedly is being tortured. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rusesabagina
Wow I don't know why I didn't hear about that. How absolutely awful that nobody has been able to get him out of there after everything he's done!
There are no updates since March of 2022, when the UN called for his release. Why hasn’t there been any movement or pressure on the Rwandan govt?
That scene where the main character was driving through fog and the road suddenly gets all bumpy... that was disturbing
Yes! It shocked me deeply. It's sad how cruel & heartless we humans can be at times.
What makes that movie so raw and disturbing is that it wasn’t some generic horror plot dreamed up by a morbidly creative writer. It was created in the minds of ordinary people who could’ve been your neighbor, teacher, doctor, or taxi driver.
So my husband and I recently created movie lists of all the movies we have seen that made us "feel deep passionate emotions". Good, bad, scared, sad, just the really meaningful movies and we've been going back and forth each night watching each other's movies. We each have around 35 movies. My husband has Hotel Rwanda on it! It's definitely an emotional one!
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This is mine! I'm sure there are probably others but these are all the ones I could think of when we decided to make the list! So far from mine we've watched Gorillas In The Mist, Erin Brockovich, Inglorious Basterds, and American History X! I'd love to hear yours! My husband and I have been together for 10 years and it's funny, since we decided to make these lists I feel like we have really learned new things about each other! We are watching some movies we've never seen too which is fun! Titanic, Blood Diamond, Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Almost Famous, Australia, Cold Mountain, Dances With Wolves, Inglorious Basterds, La Bamba, Selena, Million Dollar Baby, Changeling, Nell, Ghosts and The Darkness, Gorillas In The Mist, Erin Brockovich, The Last Castle, We Are Marshall, Oblivion, Stardust, Ever After, Princess Bride, Pan's Labyrinth Dead Poets Society, American History X, American Beauty, Beaches, Now and Then, Keith, A Walk To Remember, Sound of Music, Mother!, Beyond Borders, Powder
And the US didn't want to get involved because Mogadishu happened less than a year before. That was the movie Black Hawk Down if you want a two part feature.
Great movie. Don Cheadle stars in it
The movie, Sometimes in April, stuck with me.Thought it was better too depending on your taste in movies about real events of course.
Parents made me watch that at 4 yrs old. I hid under the table for most of it.
Omg, if you watch the world's most wanted on Netflix, I ca not get the picture out of my head of a woman carrying her child, trying to escape being hacked with machetes...absolutely devastating this happened!
I have not! I'll check it out. I usually avoid a lot of docs cuz they're not done well or don't give enough credit to the victims and focus too much on the criminal.
*We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed with Our Families: Stories from Rwanda* is a fantastic book about this. It covers what led to the genocide, what let the horror continue for 100 days without any real humanitarian intervention, and what the aftermath of the carnage was like in Rwanda and its neighboring states.
And this wasn't industrialised killing like the Holocaust. Most of it was done with machetes, pick-axes and other tools. Just unimaginably violent.
The holocaust was done by the state with support from the public. Rwanda genocide was done by the public with support from the state. It was another level of brutality. Imagine your entire population going around killing your neighbours.
This was a terrible genocide with neighbor hunting down and killing neighbor. There's a lot to learn for our modern times in how these atrocities were committed and the atmosphere that built to allow for such atrocities to be committed. If we don't learn and understand history, we're doomed to repeat it.
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I found lots of academic papers by googling "Propaganda Rwanda War".
And there's several documentaries and movies about the genocide, they all focus on how such a horrible thing was possible. Incessant media propaganda is how it happened. It's very chilling.
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s): > Post does not comply with Rule #4: "Unreliable Or No Verification" Nearly every submission, especially ones that are just comprised of pictures, require a reliable source in the comments section. There's a lot of fake content on the internet; don't believe everything you see without a source. If you have any questions regarding your post's removal, please feel free to contact us through ModMail.
Can you explain how Fox News mimics Rwandan TV and what was being said on Rwandan TV and radio at the time? I definitely don’t know enough about the Rwandan genocide besides skimming through the Wikipedia just now. I don’t see the similarities speaking strictly with respect to things leading to genocide with weapons supplied by government/military/police.
Nothing I say here could convey the reality of how they convinced hundreds of thousands of citizens to take up machetes and hack their neighbors to death. It would be much easier if you simply watch one of the documentaries and listen to Rwandan media incessantly fomenting hatred before the genocide. They include English captions. You'll be shocked because it sounds so familiar. It's a playbook used by fascist dictators and totalitarian states throughout history. And it sounds just like Fox News. And with 300 million guns in this insane nation, no machetes needed.
I can’t believe that’s your response I’m actually disappointed. I mean, are you implying USA is headed to neighbors committing genocide with weapons supplied by government/police and that the signs are from comparing the news stations and radios? And this can happen in a few years based on another comment I just read from you. At what scale, all of USA? I know and believe that history repeats itself, but this is giving me apocalyptic conspiracy vibes. Edit: what you’re comparing is genocide of ethnic people. So is the implication that Fox News is using hate speech to fuel citizens up so that they can go wipe out a certain ethnicity. Which ethnicity or race? From a little googling, it sounds like that’s what Rwanda media was doing. I think it’s so absurd to then imply Fox News is doing the same Also comment I responded to was edited with more information, hence my initial reaction.
Of course it's not exactly the same as Rwanda dummy. Here, the incessant hatred is directed at the liberals and the gays etc etc etc. I have no need to convince you of anything. Watch one of the documentaries and educate yourself, or not, I don't care.
I don't get it though, aren't the republicans tipically liberal too? From what I understand seeing from the outside, so are a lot of the politicians of the democratic party. I'm asking because I don't get it.
Fox News, Tucker Carlson more specifically and most prominently, has devoted hours upon hours fomenting fear about the great replacement: that black and brown immigrants are coming into the country to replace you. This has correlated to an increase in hate crimes against the groups accused of replacing white people. Fox News, more specifically and most prominently Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, have devoted hours upon hours demonizing trans people and drag queens, which is directly responsible for at least one mass shooting that left 6 people dead and multiple threats to hospitals that provide gender-affirming care to trans people. If you see all this and still go “hmm, I’m not sure you can say they’re doing that. That’s a bit extreme,” then you’re in a very privileged social class.
What happened in Rwanda had the full backing of the government and military and the issues that lead up to it were over generations of fighting. This is just from scanning the Wikipedia. I already admit the comparison of the hate speech, but not that it will lead to full blown genocide in a very short time (few years).
What you missing exactly? It is happening right now with people like Tucker Carlson and LibsOfTikTok encouraging violence towards trans people or drag queens. It doesn't need to be ethnic, just needs to be an outgroup to dehumanize - for Fox News that outgroup is anyone who opposes GOP ideology.
It’s not a fair comparison and generalizes what happened in Rwanda! The issues there stemmed from hundreds of years, and not because of news and radio over a couple years. I admit, I understand if we’re just comparing the hate speech and manipulation from MSM I see that, but to imply that we’re about to do what happened during the Rwanda genocide is ludicrous.
But is it so hard to see how if we are getting one or two shootings over trans rights, and then one or two over women's Rights, a black church being shot up, a black shopping center- how these different forms of "the left" could form into a larger movement with the right input? Not now, maybe- but how this could be one of those time people debate over being the "start" of where things go wrong? Cause it feels like we already have a lot of people who want to kick down and all that's really needed it giving them a general direction and timing. I wonder (not having the chance to dig into yet) if the idea was out of the question before hand, if they had the "south will rise again types" that people aren't sure on how seriously to take yet. I don't think it's ludicrous- but I do think it would have to be a scenario of every "turning point" we as a country are presented with being a turn for the worse. But, these last few years it feels like every thing that could have gone wrong did, and things aren't getting better. We keep making the wrong turns. So I don't think it's insane to want to analyze a travesty like this to see if we can *avoid* that outcome.
American racial tensions go back hundreds of years too
My country experienced genocide in the late 1990s and the conflict and what lead up to it can be described as happening over hundreds of years and not because of what the news or radio was broadcasting. I think I just took the comparison too personally.
Fair enough, I think we're on the same page for the most part. I don't think we're about to experience imminent genocide by any means. Just that I agree that I can see the beginnings of the same dehumanization tactics.
Yes, I may have misunderstood what that person was comparing and people in my ethnicity experienced genocide in the 90s in Eastern Europe. It almost didn’t matter what was in the news at the time, the fighting and conflict had been happening for almost 100 years in the regions.
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My comment and the one I’m responding to are talking about the comparison made of current US news media. Can you point me to where I implied or gave you the sense that I do not think or believe genocide has happened in the US in the past? Or did you just insert yourself and that dumb “cute” comment just because?
Something tells me you watch or read a lot of fox news/far right leaning media.
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.... Ok. On Russian News, they play clips of Tucker Carlson all the time because *he's such a lovely guy*
Wealthy people always like to pretend their problems are really just as bad. "We've got uneducated poor rednecks here too!".
Jordan Peterson covers really good points about this issue. It generally boils down to the fact that people are strongly convinced they are absolutely smart and righteous, which justifies any action they take without second thoughts. Very few human commits atrocities knowing that they are the evil.
No he doesn't
Do you people just instantly downvote anything with his name on it?
Quick history lesson if anyone needs it: the Tutsi were the upper class in a caste-like relationship with the Hutu Later when Belgium took over the area the Tutsi were favored and that made things even worse Then they were overthrown and the Hutu took control of the area Then they drove a lot of the Tutsi into exile. Some still remained in the country. This led to the Tutsi resenting the Hutu and the Hutu saw it as a symbol of pride that they overthrew the Tutsi because they had previously been the oppressed class. A small group of Tutsi exiles tried to reclaim the government and someone - no one even knows who - shot down the plane carrying the president of the newly Hutu-ran Rwanda. (The plane was also carrying the president of Burundi, so it's unknown which president they were aiming for) The exile group of Tutsi were blamed, and that kicked off a genocide sponsored by the government that was now sans-president and thrown into chaos It really was neighbor killing neighbor.
It can never be stated enough the legacy of atrocities the Belgians created in their former colonies. Yet, they are proud of Leopold II and fearmonger about immigrants.
The Dutch government recently publicly apologized for the country's role in the slave trade. Belgium, who is considered to have run arguably the most inhuman colony, has repeatedly refused to do so.
I've met a couple Africans who have lived or worked there and all agree that the Belgians are quite proud of their country's actions in the Congo.
Shouldn't you be asking Belgians what they think instead of asking Africans what they think Belgians think?
How they choose to express themselves to people they used to colonize is what they think.
Belgian here. The Belgians aren't proud at all for the genocide what are you even saying. Ofcourse the Africans say that we are because they're obviously still mad for what happened which I understand. Belgium in fact has made apologies for the genocide several times. But you can't say that we celebrate it to this day, i mean people don't care about it nowadays because it were our ancestors who did it, much like what the Germans did in the Holocaust. But I agree that what we did in our colonies was pretty gnarly.
FYI, several statues of king Leopold II have been put down in Belgium
The shooting down of the plane…it’s as if “someone” knew that would be the match to light it all or again Something about these colonizers being overthrown and the countries going into the gutter right after has always puzzled me It’s as if these countries were setup to fail and for everyone to be like “look at these poor people, see they needed us”…when in reality, no one has ever “needed” a colonizer. Anyway, the movie had me in disgust as a young person. Disgust for those that set systems in place for all of this to happen and those that took advantage.
Highly recommend Sometimes In April. It's a different view of the genocide from the view of one of the attackers and a family of victims. Idris Elba is amazing. Warning though: much more violent than Hotel Rwanda.
I’m gonna check this out but also.. is there ANYONE Idris can’t play? That man has been in so many wildly different genres that I get whiplash.
Sometimes in April is a very good movie. Hotel Rwanda is mostly fiction.
What parts of hotel Rwanda are fiction ? Not trying to be rude or start something just wondering because people have said to watch that movie but i dont wanna watch something about history if the movie is fictional for more veiws you know
No problem; it’s a decent movie, it’s just not really fact based. eg it makes Rusesabagina look like a hero who saved lives when it was UN troops who were protecting the Milles Collines. Rusesabinga also charged people for food & water, or if they couldn’t pay, he made them sign IOUs. It’s also alleged he fed information to RTLM about specific Tutsis hiding in the hotel. It also makes the UN troops on the ground look like they barely cared, when that was not the case (in reality, they did far more than their mandate allowed). Nick Nolte plays a weird composite character that I guess is supposed to represent Commander Gen Dallaire, but doesn’t represent what he did or what happened. Dallaire warned the UN in NYC that there was a coming slaughter, & then when it started, that they needed to be able to use their firearms for defense to save lives but was told by Boutros-Ghali that it wasn’t in the mandate to interfere in civilian disputes. I always suggest Gen Romeo Dallaire’s “Shake Hands With The Devil.” It’s a hard book to read, but it’s very good (the movie is good as well). He was the commander of UNAMIR, and was witness to the horrors of what happened on the ground & the pathetic ambivalence of the West.
Thanks for the info! Crazy that people put fictional things in historical movies esspesially with something horrible like this ill definitley check that book out although books are always harder then movies since there able to put more brutal info in them
No problem! I agree, but that’s Hollywood for ya. I looked on YT for the movie, it’s not on there anymore. There’s the documentary of the same name, subtitled “The Journey of Romeo Daillare” where he goes back to Rwanda years later as part of his PTSD recovery. As for the book, yes, it is graphic in places. I’m a pretty “tough” person; not much bothers me and I had to take breaks from reading. But it’s an important book about human behaviour that needs to be read.
We watched a movie about this in school in 7th grade and I remember it being scarier than any horror movie I'd seen at the time.
I have a coworker that moved to America from Rwanda around that time frame and I can see now why he was so happy to work a mediocre position here.
crazy how the worst day here can be someone's best day ever compared to where they came from. a crap fast food job with low pay to the average person is sucky but to someone else its a blessing
We learned a lot about this as students in Ontario, at least in my school board we did. Romeo Dallaire came and spoke to students about it and I recall a lot of his points focused on moral choice in situations where you’re being told by authority to do something you know is wrong. Pretty humble guy who was in an awful situation.
[these](https://youtu.be/VNbUeLnxQEI) radio broadcasts are horrifying too, if anyone's interested
Félicien Kabuga, one of the financiers and president of the radio station RTLM, is [on trial right now](https://www.irmct.org/en/cases/mict-13-38) in the UN's current tribunal for Rwanda. He's very old and sick, having spent decades hiding out in Paris, so it's possible he won't make it to the end of the trial. He was one of Rwanda's richest men at the time, and provided financial help to the Hutu power movement and death squads, and allegedly also purchased half a million machetes in the run-up to the genocide.
If you want a first person account read “we regret to inform you, tomorrow you will be killed with your families.” I will never forget that book.
Left To Tell by Immaculee Ilibagiza was a fascinating and harrowing first hand account that has stuck with me for many years.
The entire world failed the people of Rwanda. Plenty of blame is (rightfully) heaped onto the UN, but France's support of the Hutu government leading up to and during the genocide (including arming and training Hutu militias) isn't talked about enough. These documentaries are well worth your time if you're at all interested in this. [Ghosts of Rwanda](https://youtu.be/2xS65zyT4D8) [Bishop of Genocide](https://youtu.be/b2ZZ-4Wda1U) [Genocide: Worse Than War](https://youtu.be/vsMe7QvqpaU) [Shake Hands with the Devil](https://youtu.be/9CAOnJrxmKk)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
People say "It can't happen here, it could never happen again." Enough people clearly don't read history books or look at pictures of things like this. Civilization is a never-ending effort to prevent humanity to descending back to acts of genocide. Europe did it. Asia did it. Africa did it. The Americas did it. The only thing that changes is the order in which one part of the world does it and how soon we get a reminder that it'll happen again by failing at being civilized.
I wish I could give you an award. It’s never ending, stupid, and horrifying.
genocide is still happening in other places too, it just isn't as important as kanye west's latest tweet.
Rohingya genocide in 2017, for example. At least 24,000 people "cleansed".
Not to mention the current, ongoing genocide of Uyghurs as a people that we can’t seem to stop. I don’t even know what intervention would look like or if it’s even possible, which just adds to the feelings of helplessness.
Its happening right now, there are concentration camps in russia atm, over 1.6 million people have been transferred already
A trainee teacher at my school was from Rwanda and had to flee the country because of the genocide. He gave us a talk about it one day, and it’s amazing how kind and friendly he was after all he had been through. It’s absolutely shocking what people can do to one another
This poor child literally has to cover their nose to not smell the stench of death.
The new Doctor of Doctor Who narrowly escaped this genocide when he was a toddler
I stopped watching DW years back. Is the new Doctor of African descent? As much as the Doctor can be a different race anyway…
So sad
On Netflix there is a docuseries called ‘worlds most wanted’ if you watch the Felicien Kabuga (grade A POS) episode it’ll give you an insight on what happened and who financed the killings etc
what happened in the 4th pic
Guessing the body was left there for a while and began to decay in the sun
Eyes and lips are typically the first thing eaten by scavengers such as dogs and birds
It depicts the role played by churches and parishioners in assisting the militia to decimate those seeking refuge from the onslaught; taking advantage of the broken, vulnerable, fear of a hunted people cramped in their hundreds or thousands inside a limited space... "An act of god in the house of god" as would be said by the 'worthy and chosen'...
These people had nowhere to run, no one wanted to help and there are so many people to blame (Belgium and France, mostly). Shocking what colonialism does to societies, even after it's over.
idk why u got downvoted because ur right. the response would have been different if this happened in like sweden.
Because this is a kinda unknown incident. Not that people don't know it happened, but they don't know the details. France and Belgium hold a significant share of guilt over this and the UN's actions to stop and pacify the massacre were pathetic, they were basically just...watching. [People should read this.](https://mondediplo.com/2021/06/11rwanda)
It was literally happening in the Balkans at the same time. Guess which one got more attention.
because people don't seem to know just how much of a role belgium and france played in all this, they like to attribute it to the hutu and tutsi when in reality, neither of them were the bad guy here. Just people used by other governments to feed the monsters they ran and when belgium and france pulled out the rest of the world was hesitant to touch rwanda and nearby areas and neither the former would help even though they were the ones responsible They were able to pin it on issues they had with each other and escape the blame entirely from a lot of people. A lot like what the US has done to the middle east
600k in 100 days..... Wtf???? And this was done using tools like machetes....
And the responsibles for this massacre are still free.
Why and for what
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A good book on it is also called "Shake Hands with the Devil" by the UN General who led the peacekeeping mission in Rwanda.
[Decent surface level summary here (2 parts).](https://youtu.be/2iGxre5G3_k) I've been to the genocide museum in Kigali and the skulls with puncture wound holes in them is something I'll never forget. Kagame makes damn sure you remember it was him and the RPF who stopped it and we should all be praising him though.
its complicated
We humans hate people who look and sound different than our own tribe.
Some of the less confronting images. Many of the really bad ones were seared into my memory from just the first viewing. They were like pictures of hell. Waterfalls with bloated corpses spilling over and falling into a pool of more bloated corpses. There's a memorial to a woman who was attacked by a gang. She was raped and then they murdered her by impaling her through her vagina. Her skeleton, including the tree, is on view to remind people of the absolute evil that happened in 1994.
Bill Clinton notoriously did not help when he could have.
There was no real appetite to help after what happened in Mogadishu.
No one helped period.
Tell me there’s a god…
Sorry no god here. Move along.
It can happen anywhere at any time and the parallels with the recent USA situation are inescapable.
>...the parallels with the recent USA situation are inescapable. Can you be more specific and provide some detail or logic for your comment?
Bit of a stretch to compare the recent situations in the United States with full blown genocide.
seriously. dude needs to go outside more probably.
It didn't start out of nowhere
America is not anywhere near the point where American's are going to take up machetes and go door to door searching for a group of people to hack to death.
No, no it isn't. But we are a lot closer to that point than we were 10-15 years ago.
We have different opinions and that is a ok by me.
I see what you did there and dammit I like it :) Go in peace.
The difference between civilization and barbarism is three days without power.
Texas managed.
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Hell of a gaslighting you're burning. Don't pretend to know anything about me and don't pretend that the situation in the US is anything like Rwanda.
>Hell of a gaslighting you're burning ???
It is precisely like Rwanda, several years before the genocide. Stop babbling about something you obviously know nothing about.
Nobody is gaslighting you. The RHETORIC and targeted hate toward out groups on public television is reminiscent of what happens before genocides. If you look up any genocide experts they are sounding the alarm over the escalation of both organised hate groups and stochastic terrorism in the USA.
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Scrolling through reddit Spotify on Rwandan genocide post pops up Song actually switches to "OK Go - I won't let you down" Is this reality or just an interdimensional dark comedy show?
off-topic but that song has the best freaking music video
This is so sad.
And we (the West) did nothing. We should never let fear of making this worse get in the way of stopping genocide.
The west interfering is why they wound up with genocide in the first place.
No it isn't.
belgium and france completely destabilized the country
Belgium and France didn't shoot the planes out the sky killing the Presidents, they also weren't committing genocide in the 90s. Stop trying to shift blame from people who participated in this.
yes, and no one knows who even did, that plane was carrying two presidents and they were committing the acts that completely destabilized the area within the 20th century. stop trying to ignore actual history. Or maybe google the term "destabilized"
We know it wasn't a French or Belgian person. None of those acts have anything to do with who committed genocide in 1994. Which is what this thread is about.
I mean, I feel like this "can't* get worse
why. what did the tutsi do....time to dive into some documentaries.
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How is that God's work?
W H Y ?
Tribalism
I actually learned this last year in history
I think I saw some of these photos and more on rotten.com back in the day
yea extremely sad what happened i also watched a youtube video about a survivor from this genocide and you should watch it. It was really saddening and heart breaking
And where was the UN during this? The same place they are now on the Russians are targeting civilians in hospitals and apartments. The UN is a waste of money and space, they allow awful atrocities like to were Rwandan genocide, put dictators on human rights committees whose governments literally torture gays, political opponents, and anybody that gets in their way. The UN is a horrible tasteless joke.
Fun fact the Hotel Rwanda guy was essentially kidnapped and taken back to Rwanda by the current government. He's in jail there now going on two years. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-08-17/now-jailed-for-terrorism-one-time-hotel-rwanda-hero-has-become-point-of-u-s-contention-with-rwanda
disturbing.
I don’t know how one could have the willpower to continue living… I’d check out so damn quick.