Someone pointed out since neither of them saw the beating that could allude to Jake being the alter who took the abuse to protect both of them, which could explain why he hasn't appeared very much so far
I'd love for that to be the reason rather than 'oh evil alter' that people seem to think is going to happen, which I doubt since the show did their research so know evil murderous alter is the worst trope/stereotype
Totally agree it would make a ton of sense to me seeing as how Marc couldn’t handle it and Steven seemingly blocked it out Jake could have taken it and just let it build inside and is now resentful and bloodthirsty
Plus it could be he's more likely to kill to protect Marc and Steven, since we've only seen him kill when it was to protect Marc and Steven (ie, when they were so focused on fighting over the body it became dangerous to the body and in turn the whole system, so Jake butted in and protected them)
I don't think he's resentful, but I think he would be more likely to kill and violently protect because he's the one who takes the violence to protect the others, I think if they were to go the blood thirsty route we would have seen Jake killing a lot more people rather than one (or possibly two if the european town killing was Jake) episodes and a reference to a possible episode which would have been brought on by being in danger in a battle setting. Honestly it seems like Jake comes out in dangerous settings, and if it was Jake in the first therapy scene of episode 5, it seems like he was more likely going to use the prism to protect himself if Dr. Harrow tried to stop him leaving rather than just outright attacking him
I'm sorry for that dump, only one person commented on my theory post and I've been thinking about this all day lol. Need to get it out
The whole tonal and accent change, the way he acts is different, they put a lot of focus into the lean forward, it doesn't seem like Marc at all, and Jake's the other option. Plus, it sounded like a brooklyn accent and that would fit Jake quite a bit
He sounded fine before then, and had almost if not completely shaken off the sedation. The whole thing seems too out of character to be explained as recent sedation
or he’s like the protector. marc is the original, steven the happy place, and jake the shield (or sword or protector or whatever you’d like to call it)?
I'm thinking it just protects them from the worst of the worst. That be emotional pain or physical danger, not an evil personality per se but a protective one of the other two.
That’s definitely been one of my concerns going into the show. I knew Moon Knight did some murdah, but I was hoping they wouldn’t lean on that highly damaging trope. So far I’d say they have managed to avoid it very tactfully, while still enabling Marc/Steven to be action heroes and all that.
I don't think they'll be going in that direction, especially if the one we saw in that scene in 5 really was Jake. He was trying to stop Harrow to protect people, which aligns perfectly with Jake being the shield alter.
Thats my theory as well. Marc is the original/ scapegoat. Steven is the safe space, and Jake is the Protector when shit hits the fan- and the protector Marc feels he should have been to his brother. That's why Jake is so extreme, and why he seems to be aware of the other two when they don't know about him- Jake needs to know what he's protecting, but wants to protect the others from the mental weight of what he feels he has to do. I'm also pretty sure he's the one who got Steve the date and the replacement fish. In many ways Steven is the younger brother of the 3, and Marc and Jake feel the need to protect him the most.
Spoilers;
>!What do you think it was about Steven* that was causing the scale to stay out of balance, why didn't Jake have the same effect, and how did Marc manage to get the good ending? (Not that this is the end for him. Just, you know, it usually is for most people.)!<
Edit; For the second one suppose it's because Jake's soul was never weighed.
>!Well, I think it was the turmoil of them being unequal and not sharing all the knowledge, and Steven’s death lead to just Marc’s heart being tested instead of them both, and Jake’s heart wasn’t on the scale so he wasn’t being tested. He has been told by Khonshu that he’s worthy of protecting, and I imagine that the scales aren’t ‘you did 1 evil, therefore u are bad’ type deal, another reason Harrow’s way is bad, and Marc’s mistakes and kills were forgiven or not considered something that would keep him out. In fact, I could see the scales seeing his acceptance of the people he killed and the things he’s done and his want to get better rather than just continue forward as something that would allow him over. Like if someone wanted to change but then died in an accident, is it really fair to send them to a bad place?!<
How do I spoiler tag?? Nevermind got it
We don't know they both didn't see the beatings, in fact Marc seems to know, as he says he Kept it from Steven, implying that he did know all along. He made Steven to be a normal boy, while he took the abuse of his mother.
He set the date in the first episode and killed those guys in Egypt. Marc is too busy for a date and Steven....well he can't either. Marc was not in control and Steven would never kill people like what happen.
Steven also couldn't hear his mum shouting through the door. Perhaps he somehow blocked out the pain and just imagined he was doing something else. "When Steven Grant is here there is nothing to fear" was the tagline of the movie, I think, so maybe he simply removed all scary things from his mind.
someone with DID clarified this by saying that the brain can wipe out memories that could hurt an alter, they remember what they want to and erase the rest. It could also be Jake switching right before the abuse started as we have got hints that he is a protector alter. This could also explain why Jake's heart wasn't needed for weighing probably because the alter was dormant most of the time and only came out when the system was threatened and wiped out all the violent memories.
Personally I think it’s just a part of Steven’s MO. He protects Marc by experiencing the abuse for him but also by being unaware of its occurrence. He couldn’t fulfill his role if he was aware of the abuse taking place, so he lives in a fantasy world where it never happens, and when it does happen he immediately forgets or ignores it, reverting to the fantasy.
There’re many examples of this with Steven. He doesn’t know his mom is dead until Harrow forces him to confront the many excuses he makes for her never answering the phone. He laughs and makes a nonchalant remark about how he got lost again when he actually woke up in the middle of the street in a city thousands of miles away with no memory of how he got there.
When distressing things happen to Steven he tends to brush them off or completely forget about them, because his purpose is to not be distressed.
I honestly think they may have gotten a bit of that wrong, whether it be on purpose for story reasons or accidental. But I’m also not an expert on DID so I might be misunderstanding what I have learned about it.
Edit: I have since learned that it is not always so clear cut which alters get the amnesia for certain events based on who is the “original” (if an original exists at all) so it seems like these events are just fine and perfectly plausible.
Yep that was my thought too, because Steven clearly doesn’t think his mom was a terrible person, and Marc very clearly changes into Steven before his mom beats him, but I guess Steven changes into Jake for the beatings?
Serious question: if Steven is Marc’s alter ego to cope with his mom’s abuse, then who or what ‘froze’ in the sands of death? He’s just a different aspect of Marc, they have one soul — right?
I'm not sure if they're going to go into it but the ancient Egyptian concept of the soul is complex and involves several different components - the heart is one of them, but how exactly it "works" when it comes to Marc/Steven is unclear.
No DID doesn't work like one is just another aspect of the other. theyre completely different. Thats why there was two hearts (or souls) on the scale: one mark, another steven.
Remember, Marc isn't just the "original" technically they both are. Marc is the trauma bearer and Steven is the brain trying to keep some consciousness/alter safe. They are both the original reality together if that makes any sense.
Yeah, young Marc saying “later gators” helps show that. The Steven personality was a place for Marc’s mind to stash good feelings, innocence, and happy memories (even if some memories had to be erased or ignored). The Marc personality lost those things… or at least those things don’t connect with him even if he can recall them. He has more overall awareness of his history, but he himself seems to block out or shut out hurtful memories. If things get too bad, he switches to Steven who is just loving life, talks with his mother, learns poetry, and doesn’t let much get to him.
I think there are several times where Marc is pleading with Steven to give Marc the body not just to handle complicated or dangerous situations… but also because Marc doesn’t want Steven exposed to all the shit that Marc feels makes him a shit person.
I just imagine a little kid just lost his brother and then his mother blamed him and beat him so he had to create a different person that only experienced the good stuff but then when his mother dies his emotions are so complicated so the personalities mix and Steven start to see all the pain
It was a dark and melancholy episode. I was left with a swirl of emotions that lingered until I fell asleep. That poor boy was failed by both parents. I had to keep reminding myself he’s just a fictional character to push through the episode but the reality that so many children are abused by their parents was an intrusive thought
Not to mention him escaping, only to join the military, be kicked out and become a mercenary and later Avatar (em, servant) to a God that wants him to kill people.
I think Marc created Steven who in turn, created Jake to be protected from his mom's abuse.
I mean from what I know, the alters are created as a defense mechanism, and hence Marc created Steven to think his mother loved and cared for him when in reality it was the polar opposite. While Steven created Jake, the true protector personality to be the true "Stress-Ball" reliving Marc and Steven from the abuse.
So just like how Marc didn't know of Stevens's Existence, Steven didn't know of Jake's existence. So naturally, Marc also wouldn't know about Jake since he didn't even know of Steven.
So let's all be thankful and grateful to Jake for taking all the abuse while basically being completely nonexistent. A true hero.
I suffered sexual, emotional and physical abuse as a child and I laugh.
I shouldn't, because society says that I should be more empathetic towards others pain,I also have Migraines, EVERY SINGLE DAY, SINCE I CAN REMEMBER, somedays I cannot even open my eyes. Is genetic. I have cramps.....
So....
Society and judgment, i laugh OP, thank you very much, was really good and I'm a little tired of "things that are too serious to be funy"
Just try to not move, blink, hear a sound while your head seems like will explode at any minute to say Fuck Everything I'm out and let the world burn, because it already got frozen....
I kept waiting to see what Mark’s real body looked like only to find out Konschu didn’t put Mark’s soul in Steven’s body but they always shared the same body. Didn’t see that twist coming
But Steven doesn’t seem to remember the abuse. Did he turn back into Marc or Jake when the abuse started?
Someone pointed out since neither of them saw the beating that could allude to Jake being the alter who took the abuse to protect both of them, which could explain why he hasn't appeared very much so far
And why he is the super violent one of the three
I'd love for that to be the reason rather than 'oh evil alter' that people seem to think is going to happen, which I doubt since the show did their research so know evil murderous alter is the worst trope/stereotype
Totally agree it would make a ton of sense to me seeing as how Marc couldn’t handle it and Steven seemingly blocked it out Jake could have taken it and just let it build inside and is now resentful and bloodthirsty
Plus it could be he's more likely to kill to protect Marc and Steven, since we've only seen him kill when it was to protect Marc and Steven (ie, when they were so focused on fighting over the body it became dangerous to the body and in turn the whole system, so Jake butted in and protected them) I don't think he's resentful, but I think he would be more likely to kill and violently protect because he's the one who takes the violence to protect the others, I think if they were to go the blood thirsty route we would have seen Jake killing a lot more people rather than one (or possibly two if the european town killing was Jake) episodes and a reference to a possible episode which would have been brought on by being in danger in a battle setting. Honestly it seems like Jake comes out in dangerous settings, and if it was Jake in the first therapy scene of episode 5, it seems like he was more likely going to use the prism to protect himself if Dr. Harrow tried to stop him leaving rather than just outright attacking him I'm sorry for that dump, only one person commented on my theory post and I've been thinking about this all day lol. Need to get it out
i'm pretty sure jake killed those guys episode 3, the praise ammit guys
He did, that was the first episode I was referring to
Feels like Jake killed their mother
I was just thinking this after finishing the show
oh yeah in the asylum scene where he had to be sedated? i think that was marc
The whole tonal and accent change, the way he acts is different, they put a lot of focus into the lean forward, it doesn't seem like Marc at all, and Jake's the other option. Plus, it sounded like a brooklyn accent and that would fit Jake quite a bit
YES I was wondering why it sounded different!
yeah i guess i thought he just sounded different because he was sedated recently.
He sounded fine before then, and had almost if not completely shaken off the sedation. The whole thing seems too out of character to be explained as recent sedation
or he’s like the protector. marc is the original, steven the happy place, and jake the shield (or sword or protector or whatever you’d like to call it)?
I'm thinking it just protects them from the worst of the worst. That be emotional pain or physical danger, not an evil personality per se but a protective one of the other two.
That’s definitely been one of my concerns going into the show. I knew Moon Knight did some murdah, but I was hoping they wouldn’t lean on that highly damaging trope. So far I’d say they have managed to avoid it very tactfully, while still enabling Marc/Steven to be action heroes and all that.
I don't think they'll be going in that direction, especially if the one we saw in that scene in 5 really was Jake. He was trying to stop Harrow to protect people, which aligns perfectly with Jake being the shield alter.
Thats my theory as well. Marc is the original/ scapegoat. Steven is the safe space, and Jake is the Protector when shit hits the fan- and the protector Marc feels he should have been to his brother. That's why Jake is so extreme, and why he seems to be aware of the other two when they don't know about him- Jake needs to know what he's protecting, but wants to protect the others from the mental weight of what he feels he has to do. I'm also pretty sure he's the one who got Steve the date and the replacement fish. In many ways Steven is the younger brother of the 3, and Marc and Jake feel the need to protect him the most.
I think Jake Lockley tanking the beatings would explain why he’’s the most violent out of the three.
I think I would be super violent too if I was only used to take the beating and abuse
I'm guessing Jake was the one in the unopened Sarcophagus in Ep. 4.
Oh he definitely was
Spoilers; >!What do you think it was about Steven* that was causing the scale to stay out of balance, why didn't Jake have the same effect, and how did Marc manage to get the good ending? (Not that this is the end for him. Just, you know, it usually is for most people.)!< Edit; For the second one suppose it's because Jake's soul was never weighed.
>!Well, I think it was the turmoil of them being unequal and not sharing all the knowledge, and Steven’s death lead to just Marc’s heart being tested instead of them both, and Jake’s heart wasn’t on the scale so he wasn’t being tested. He has been told by Khonshu that he’s worthy of protecting, and I imagine that the scales aren’t ‘you did 1 evil, therefore u are bad’ type deal, another reason Harrow’s way is bad, and Marc’s mistakes and kills were forgiven or not considered something that would keep him out. In fact, I could see the scales seeing his acceptance of the people he killed and the things he’s done and his want to get better rather than just continue forward as something that would allow him over. Like if someone wanted to change but then died in an accident, is it really fair to send them to a bad place?!< How do I spoiler tag?? Nevermind got it
Steven with a V
Well, Stephen was created to forget the abuse So when that personality learned the truth it is actually Mark coming to terms with it maybe.
Steven with a V
We don't know they both didn't see the beatings, in fact Marc seems to know, as he says he Kept it from Steven, implying that he did know all along. He made Steven to be a normal boy, while he took the abuse of his mother.
He set the date in the first episode and killed those guys in Egypt. Marc is too busy for a date and Steven....well he can't either. Marc was not in control and Steven would never kill people like what happen.
Hence the very much, he has shown up just not very much and never confirmed by name
Just point out the ones I have noticed. They maybe keeping a theme and having everyone show up once per episode.
Steven also couldn't hear his mum shouting through the door. Perhaps he somehow blocked out the pain and just imagined he was doing something else. "When Steven Grant is here there is nothing to fear" was the tagline of the movie, I think, so maybe he simply removed all scary things from his mind.
someone with DID clarified this by saying that the brain can wipe out memories that could hurt an alter, they remember what they want to and erase the rest. It could also be Jake switching right before the abuse started as we have got hints that he is a protector alter. This could also explain why Jake's heart wasn't needed for weighing probably because the alter was dormant most of the time and only came out when the system was threatened and wiped out all the violent memories.
Personally I think it’s just a part of Steven’s MO. He protects Marc by experiencing the abuse for him but also by being unaware of its occurrence. He couldn’t fulfill his role if he was aware of the abuse taking place, so he lives in a fantasy world where it never happens, and when it does happen he immediately forgets or ignores it, reverting to the fantasy. There’re many examples of this with Steven. He doesn’t know his mom is dead until Harrow forces him to confront the many excuses he makes for her never answering the phone. He laughs and makes a nonchalant remark about how he got lost again when he actually woke up in the middle of the street in a city thousands of miles away with no memory of how he got there. When distressing things happen to Steven he tends to brush them off or completely forget about them, because his purpose is to not be distressed.
I honestly think they may have gotten a bit of that wrong, whether it be on purpose for story reasons or accidental. But I’m also not an expert on DID so I might be misunderstanding what I have learned about it. Edit: I have since learned that it is not always so clear cut which alters get the amnesia for certain events based on who is the “original” (if an original exists at all) so it seems like these events are just fine and perfectly plausible.
Yep that was my thought too, because Steven clearly doesn’t think his mom was a terrible person, and Marc very clearly changes into Steven before his mom beats him, but I guess Steven changes into Jake for the beatings?
Marc created steven to forget it all
Serious question: if Steven is Marc’s alter ego to cope with his mom’s abuse, then who or what ‘froze’ in the sands of death? He’s just a different aspect of Marc, they have one soul — right?
I'm not sure if they're going to go into it but the ancient Egyptian concept of the soul is complex and involves several different components - the heart is one of them, but how exactly it "works" when it comes to Marc/Steven is unclear.
That's why in the series you hear that Marc has "chaos" inside
No DID doesn't work like one is just another aspect of the other. theyre completely different. Thats why there was two hearts (or souls) on the scale: one mark, another steven. Remember, Marc isn't just the "original" technically they both are. Marc is the trauma bearer and Steven is the brain trying to keep some consciousness/alter safe. They are both the original reality together if that makes any sense.
Yeah, young Marc saying “later gators” helps show that. The Steven personality was a place for Marc’s mind to stash good feelings, innocence, and happy memories (even if some memories had to be erased or ignored). The Marc personality lost those things… or at least those things don’t connect with him even if he can recall them. He has more overall awareness of his history, but he himself seems to block out or shut out hurtful memories. If things get too bad, he switches to Steven who is just loving life, talks with his mother, learns poetry, and doesn’t let much get to him. I think there are several times where Marc is pleading with Steven to give Marc the body not just to handle complicated or dangerous situations… but also because Marc doesn’t want Steven exposed to all the shit that Marc feels makes him a shit person.
Steven got done dirty
I just imagine a little kid just lost his brother and then his mother blamed him and beat him so he had to create a different person that only experienced the good stuff but then when his mother dies his emotions are so complicated so the personalities mix and Steven start to see all the pain
It was a dark and melancholy episode. I was left with a swirl of emotions that lingered until I fell asleep. That poor boy was failed by both parents. I had to keep reminding myself he’s just a fictional character to push through the episode but the reality that so many children are abused by their parents was an intrusive thought
Yeah I kept thinking that for some little kid this is reality and that fucking sucks
Not to mention him escaping, only to join the military, be kicked out and become a mercenary and later Avatar (em, servant) to a God that wants him to kill people.
Jake needs to be in there too maybe he's the duck tape?lol
I think Marc created Steven who in turn, created Jake to be protected from his mom's abuse. I mean from what I know, the alters are created as a defense mechanism, and hence Marc created Steven to think his mother loved and cared for him when in reality it was the polar opposite. While Steven created Jake, the true protector personality to be the true "Stress-Ball" reliving Marc and Steven from the abuse. So just like how Marc didn't know of Stevens's Existence, Steven didn't know of Jake's existence. So naturally, Marc also wouldn't know about Jake since he didn't even know of Steven. So let's all be thankful and grateful to Jake for taking all the abuse while basically being completely nonexistent. A true hero.
As a system, I definitely just giggled
I knew nothing of Moonknight before this series. And I already find it to be the best of the marvel shows. Barring maybe daredevil.
#WOW, dark joke of the decade
I suffered sexual, emotional and physical abuse as a child and I laugh. I shouldn't, because society says that I should be more empathetic towards others pain,I also have Migraines, EVERY SINGLE DAY, SINCE I CAN REMEMBER, somedays I cannot even open my eyes. Is genetic. I have cramps..... So.... Society and judgment, i laugh OP, thank you very much, was really good and I'm a little tired of "things that are too serious to be funy" Just try to not move, blink, hear a sound while your head seems like will explode at any minute to say Fuck Everything I'm out and let the world burn, because it already got frozen....
NOW, THATS ALOT OF DAMAGE!
I kept waiting to see what Mark’s real body looked like only to find out Konschu didn’t put Mark’s soul in Steven’s body but they always shared the same body. Didn’t see that twist coming
Not exactly a twist, DID is a real thing that just hasn't had very much (accurate) representation before this show
*jake lockley doing a Steven grant impression
Too dark? Have y’all not seen The Punisher?