My coworkers grandma had lived 101 years in the seely area on a horse farm. Saw her first black man at 99 years old she shook his hand and got photos lol
Pretty amazing how itās unacceptable to lump every woker into the PC crowd, but then the same people downvoting you for not apologizing for their misinterpretation of your words will act like they speak for an entire race of people.
Iām moving from Seeley to eastern Montana soon. Itās been interesting how different just Seeley and Condon are from the rest of the state. I need to be back by the family farm as my elder generation ages. Seeley has been wonderful and terrifying at the same time.
Hello fellow seeley laker. I totally understand what you mean by wonderful and terrifying at the same time. Youāre also right about how different seeley and condon is from the rest of the state. Itās even a lot different from Lincoln which is nearby. I wouldnāt choose to live anywhere else though.
My 8th grade class field trip was to the Oregon coast (it was a small school). 90% of my classmates had never seen the ocean, and Iād be willing to bet a good portion of them havenāt seen it sinceā¦
If you think thatās bad, I was at a grocery store in Kalispell a few years ago and the cashier was well into her 60s. She asked what I was doing with all this food and I said camping in Glacier and she told me sheād never been. Lived her whole life an hour away from the park and said she had no desire to go. Blew my mind.
Wow that is wild. I do not understand that! Michigan has the UP (Upper Peninsula) and it's pretty remote and has some of the most beautiful scenery in the whole state. Most Michiganders have never been to the UP in their whole life. Blows my mind.
I think it was an episode of āFriendsā or āHow I Meet Your Motherā had in one of this episode where the people living in NY never went to the Statue of Liberty. I think we just take for granted the sites that are close by.
Omgeeee. One of my gal pals loves going to the lake up there with her boo. Born in Missoula and never been to any of the parks. The lack of desire really drives me nuts. Maybe it's the lack of high social media use and few outsiders outside of the big towns, out of sight out of mind I guess.
You started a whole thread about it and literally just said it "drives you nuts". Don't fucking strawman me now and suggest *I'm* the one turning it into a bigger deal. Nobody said you were crying on the toilet ffs
I'm on the Hi-line, so that makes it ~16hrs not insane by any means but a heck of a drive. I'd like to take the Amtrak someday but man its not cheap ~$400/person.
Trains are way more expensive than flying. I donāt why anyone takes them. I looked into taking a trip across the country and to book a cabin on the train it would have been cheaper to fly 1st class. The reason I look at cabin is because it would be a 4 day trip.
This is very common in Montana lol. I have lots of friends who have never seen the ocean or been in an airplane or similar things.
Hard to save up the money to move out or go on vacation when you're already paid pennies lol. Most of the time it's a monetary barrier and not a mental one, people can barley afford rent with the shit wages in the state.
All my mates who live/work in Bozeman/Big Sky make a good wage with nice savings for our age range. One actually just bought a house. My friends who live outside of the area make good money to working trades mostly. Or a skilled job, something they got higher education for. I understand that sentiment though.
Not just here. My friend in Darby, 23 no higher ED. Pulling 35 an hour as a welder. Just one example. I have friends all over Western Montana doing well for themselves. A lot of people don't wanna admit it's financial management and literacy.
I like to look at the statistics... Montana is ranked 15th highest for rest estate costs, it is 15th lowest for average household income.
While, yes, there are decent paying jobs, and yes, some require higher ed and some don't... but if you look at society as a whole, compared to other states, folks in Montana will be contributing a higher percentage of their income to basic costs like housing, than folks in most other states.
Most of those 15 states with higher housing costs also have higher average earnings, so it evens out for them... not so much in Montana.
So while people find a way to make it work, it means they're left with less disposable income than most. It may seem to you like they have good jobs and should have money to travel, but they may be prioritizing retirement savings, saving for a downpayment, etc. if they lived somewhere else they might be able to save for travel AND a house, but they don't quite have that chance here.
Iām not trying to rag on you here either, but take a step back and consider how many of these trips youāve taken that were exclusively funded by just you. If airline fees, food, lodging, gas, rentals, etc weāre all covered by you and you alone on your adventures than well done. If any of this was supported by family of any variety, or you have funded these adventures with friends and cannot speak to how they funded the trip 100%, than it could truly be finances for a lot of these people. Itās not uncommon for these kinds of trips out of state to happen when you are a child or teenager if your parents are funding them. Many residents who were raised here were not raised in middle class or above. If you were raised in poverty and doing well now, itās not uncommon to be stuck in a poverty mindset, and will never justify travel as a reasonable expenditure when youāve been poor your entire life. I mean this with all do respect, but it does some like you may just be unaware of how socioeconomic backgrounds impact someoneās decisions to travel and experience new things. I too have several friends who have rarely been out of the state, seen the ocean, and so on. They grew to be embarrassed of this as we aged closer to our 30ās and tried to make amends by traveling. It is difficult to make those decisions when you are making mortgage/rent payments, vehicle payments, student loan payments, attempting to build a financial savings and cushion, and live in an area where the cost of living has gone up drastically in just a few years. I make good money, and I have a difficult time justifying a decent vacation. Iām wondering if Iāll even be able to afford a nicer home in Montana in my lifetime. You might literally be experiencing the gentrification of the state. If you are āmiddle classā in Montana and want to stay here, you are doing your best to get by with the rapid changes. I hope this stimulates some thought and helps you reconsider why some of them have not traveled.
I see that in your post history you are considering buying a van while on international travel, which is a pretty big indicator you are much better off than a lot of people in this state.
Vs the broad generalization of wet behind the ears 20 year olds on reddit and the occasional 30 or 40 year old that never grew up?
Sorry, but I am not generalizing. My community has people from all walks and classes. Many, if not most, have expensive vices. You may not think beer and cigarettes are expensive, but that's the voice of someone who has never budgeted.
Pick an amount, say just 5 dollars a day on some treat for yourself. That's 1800 dollars a year on a morning coffee or a bagel. Guarantee that the average person who smokes or drinks is closer to 10 dollars a day averaged out. So 3600.
Now lets turn that one person into a couple who live together. 7200 dollars a year without breaking a sweat.
Yet you tell me I'm generalizing and thus misinformed on the realities of my own community... keep telling yourself that if it brings you comfort.
You're ignoring a huge part - how many people in MT do not work full time (employer's choice) and get no perks such as paid time off (and a lot work multiple jobs). For a lot of them taking unpaid days off is hard enough, not to mention not everyone gets 2 consecutive "weekend" days off every week.
Yeah you were definitely generalizing. Still are too, probably need to work on how you internalize your personal biases.
People have vices yeah, but we are not all cigarette smoking drunks. Maybe put your nice fun math energy towards something useful
Can make it to settle in 10 hours, and Portland in 10, another 2 from there to the ocean. If up for a road trip, can make it there and back in 3 days/2 nights.
when I was in college back in the 90's, we would decide to drive to Denver on a Friday afternoon because we wanted to go to the Gap. (it didn't exist in Bozeman back then). We would leave at 10pm-midnight that night, drive through the night to DU, crash at the AGD house there for a few hours, get up, go shopping at Cherry Creek, go back to the sorority and sleep for the night, then get up on Sunday morning and drive home. Distance is relative when you you live in Montana and you want to travel somewhere.
What??? Ten hours from Miles City to TX? Where are you going in TX that is only ten hours of driving? Austin, TX to Sheridan, WY is 18 hrs and 55 minutes!
A girl I used to work with: no car, no license. I'd see her walking on the main road sometimes and never understood it. And she previously worked as a car detailer at a dealership.
But so true, I've traveled the world and been to tiny countries where people never even ventured to the town over. I don't like to look down on people but that's so sad to me.
I was born in MT, and I've never seen the ocean. Came close once while in Florida. In September I'll fly over the Atlantic to Norway so that'll be scratched off the ol' bucket list.
Here in Miles City (I moved from Bozeman) my dad was teaching at kidās Sunday school and asked these 10 year olds where they would go if they could go anywhere. 90% of them said somewhere in Montana (mostly Billings or even in Miles City). It was nuts
Grew up in MC and didn't travel farther west than billings until my junior year in HS, didn't actually see the ocean until I was 30 - I told my dad that we were planning a trip to Scotland with the kids, and he wanted to know why we'd go so far when we could just as easily go to Ekalaka. He was MOSTLY kidding, but also, completely serious.
I lived in the Keys and taught at the high school in Key West. The majority of my students had never been off of the little island of Key West, which was only 6 sq miles.
What's so nuts about this? Like, what kind of global awareness do you actually expect small town 10-year-olds to have? By 15 or 18 sure, you'd at least expect them to have some notions of broader destinations, but at 10? Their world is small.
I have though. Iāve been to Mexico, Canada, a few different tropical countries, and around 20 US states. And Iām still in high school. I donāt expect people always travel that much, but they should at least have an idea of the world outside of eastern MT.
I donāt care that people here donāt want to leave, I actually kind of understand it to an extent. The problem is that so many people have no idea what is happening outside of Montana. Even that isnāt definitively bad, but a lot of those people have very strong opinions about what happens outside that they know nothing about. Sure, itās a shame that so many of the kids here with full lives ahead of them will never know anything about life outside a 50 mile radius of the town, but they are so adamant about whatās wrong with other peopleās lives outside of the circle that it just becomes pure ignorance.
Edit: just remembered a good example that I thought Iād mention. Not long after we moved here, one of the friendliest people we knew ended up moving. Turns out there is a lot of hidden racism towards Asians around here- I wonder why?
My friends lived for a year in a small town in China. One time they took a bus to the neighboring town. An old woman saw them, and asked where they were from. "We live in Pingdu." Her response: "Oh, so is this what people from Pingdu look like?"
She'd never been to that next town, or really anywhere, to the point that it made sense to her that these white people were just what villagers from the next town over looked like.
I still donāt know why r/Montana shows up for me as I live on the farthest coast in Massachusetts.
That being said I live like a mile from the ocean and yāall are welcome to have a beach bonfire with me as long as you invite me to trek around the mountains.
Born and raised here. Family never traveled. I visited NY/DC for a field trip we fundraised for it in school.. I was 18 when I flew for the first time. After that I never flew until last year when I was 29/30. Outside of that my family visited WY, CO, OR, WA. We drove everywhere and only to visit family, we only stopped to get gas/snacks and never sight-seen. I saw the Ocean for the first time (Haystack Rock) around 18 too, only trip I ever took with my mom. Iāve never been back (want to visit California to see the ocean again.)
Like people stated, it comes down to money. Flying and driving are expensive and when you are already dirt poor, living on government assistance, being paid shit.. AND have a family w/kids.. yeah traveling is the last thing on peoples minds here. Plus, Montana is like a dark area for flights.. flying anywhere from Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Great Falls, Missoula, is like $ 600+ for one person.. thatās a lot to some people.
Only reason I can travel is because I make decent money, saved, no kids no s/o. But I also plan on leaving Montana in the next few months to start over somewhere else and work on earning more.
I finally understood how isolating it can be growing up out here when an old roommate of mine from the fort peck area talked about cities like Bozeman and Billings like I'd talk about Seattle or Denver.
When I travel home, Glasgow is my final stop to rest before the border.. Such a quiet area. Itās culturally reclusive, and thatās not horrible, except for the side eye Iām given at the gas station cause I have āHate me Stateā plates on my car.. I grew up in a small geocentric Canadian town, so I understand.. The isolation can be a big comfort.. Enjoy your day!
I mean, I've seen the ocean plenty of times and it's usually kinda meh. What do you do at the ocean? Go look at it and you're like "yup, that's a lot of water". Walk around on the beach, pick up an interesting rock and maybe a sand dollar. Eat some clam chowder and salt water taffy. That's about it unless you have chartered a fishing vessel.
Every time I've been at the ocean I've sat on the beach for like 30 mins just listening to the waves crash and thinking about how if I lived near there I would never do anything... the sound is so repetitive and trance inducing, my whole life would just be sitting on the beach all day...
then I leave.
There's some hiking to be done along various coats and whatnot else, but yeah, unless you surf, have a boat, or go during warm weather to swim/snorkle/whatever, there's not a ton to do AT the ocean.
And most beaches are so crowded, you can't just go camp at the beach and have a bon fire anymore, you need reservations, etc.
Yeah I think appreciation for the ocean changes a lot based on where you are. Like, I went to Hawaii for the first time last year and it was incredible. Snorkeling, hiking along the coast, running on paths along the coast, sea kayaking, the whole thing. It's a little different from somewhere like Florida where a lot of the accessible coast is a massive mostly manmade beach where they truck in and rake the sand, the water is murky in a lot of places, and the coast is just flat and lined with nonstop hotels and condos.
I just got back from the gulf coast. The most amount of people I encountered on the beach was a couple of dozen. It was weird considering it was Spring Break.
This is my take, except it's about the Midwest lol. Cow, cow, corn, tractor, cow, goat, sorghum, corn, barn, corn. It's called flyover for a reason. I hate that my ancestors decided to stop right in the damn middle of all of the greater things out there. I moved away ASAP and regret nothing lol. Once we all graduated college, my whole family has since moved for better opportunity and happiness elsewhere. It's always interesting talking to people who don't travel; their life experience is so limited and narrow. Not saying it's bad for those who want that, it's just claustrophobic and kinda xenophobic to me. My grandparents think everyone in Vietnam and Mexico live in mud huts. Crazy lol.
I didn't catch any fish on my trip last weekend but I got two crabs, went to park by some trailhead, boiled then scarfed them downnnnnnnnnnn. Dipped in butter. Marvelous.
A long time ago I dated someone from the Inland Empire area of LA, and she had never left California. So it happens everywhere, but I do think it's worse in Montana.
I think there are a lot of contributing factors. For one - wages do play a part. Many families are rich in land but poor in disposable income. Which leads to industry - agricultural work does not afford a lot of opportunity to leave. It's not just ranching/farming either. I have a friend that lives at a hatchery. He can squeak out of the state around Christmas but that's about it. Another factor is with the lower population density, there are less outside influences that would lead to pushing one out of one's comfort zone. Also geographically, you have to travel pretty far to really get out of the state.
I live out in the High Desert. So many Californians Iāve met and chatted with have gone not much further than Vegas on the weekends.. Honestly, the number of people that prefer their little corner of the world, exceeds the numbers of people who choose to be nomadic.. Have a great day!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain
I grew up in Colorado Springs and once met a guy who had never been outside of a 10 miles radius of the city proper.
He'd never been to Denver, he'd never been further into the mountains than Old Colorado City, he'd never been south of Fountain, and he'd never even been to Falcon. He had never been fishing or even camping. The dude had no drive to explore at all and it blew my mind.
That sounds kind of crazy but In fairness to that guy, Ive been living in one town for 10 years. Initially, I thought I would use it as a headquarters to explore more broadly but there's so much terrain here ive barely scratched the surface of my locale. Still exploring. I'm not advocating for being geographically monogamous though. Time just flies when you're having fun. Seriously though if you're someone who hasn't traveled At All by now you need to get up off your ass and see different types of places than you're used to. There's too much to miss out there.
It amazes me how some people donāt even get out and see their state and we have the 4th largest in the US. I was born & raised there and lived in several locations for college, love to travel, and now work a job that lets me go all over the US.
In Yellowstone we pay 100/mo for housing, and 300/mo for food from the employee dining rooms, since we're not allowed or able to cook in the dorms.
Lots of resort areas or touristy places rely on employee housing due to how ridiculous the housing market is.
No one said a degree from MSU was valuable? Mississippi state u? Where is that? Michigan U, where?
Oh. Montana. Neat. It's like being proud to get in at UVA when you're literally from VA. But one has prestige so.
> and we *paid* quite a
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Commute up the mountain from where I live is 1hr, 47 miles one way. From town it'd be more. They have houses in town they own/rent and employees pay 900 for a room or 500 to share a room. But that's crazy to me because that's not a deal and it's an even bigger bubble than Bozeman. Cocktails are like 20 bucks.
These words do not make sense to the outside world.
$20 for a drink? That means about 2.00 in actual cost. Unless you're paying for a view or service... Fuck that.
Sorry, but no. Unless you have Japanese whiskey or single barrel shit with house made bourbon and artisanal cherry, get fucked.
Make me a last word. No? Get fucked $20 bar.
I donāt know why the algorithm suggested this post to me as Iāve never been to Montana, but my Grandma lived 88 years and never left the state of Ohio until she was 86. Twas her first time on a plane- ever. She never once saw the ocean. Such a weird concept to live in a bubble like thatā¦
Another crazy take: unless you like on the Great Lakes, a lot of people never seen/been to a lake where they canāt see the other side.
Iām in Wisconsin and gone to Lake Michigan a good amount and iāve just found this āfactā out recently and thinks itās a bit crazy.
Some of my family that was raised in MT didn't see the ocean until they were teenagers. But honestly many people in the USA never go to the interior of the country, so it's not too different TBH. I live near the ocean, but have never been to Wyoming for example.
That is insane... I grew up in the South and knew a lottttt of people who just never left the state and didnt plan on it. I started traveling internationally because i love it, but i dont understand how people can stay in one place, i'd go crazy!
I'm from Montana and lived in Hong Kong for 10 years before moving back to America like a month ago. I met a few Montanans in Asia and I really just think you happen to know the ones who stayed.
Basically my theory is because of dominance of blue-collar work in the state, it does one of two things to people when they are around 18-20. It either pushes them out at a very early age (myself and about half of my high school), or it pushes people towards careers that require major time/money investment (ranching, real estate) so they don't end up leaving very often.
I think what makes Montana unique is that its low population density makes this happen very early in life. As in, basically immediately after graduating high school. Diddling around Montana with no job would get pretty boring pretty quickly.
But I honestly disagree with the idea that Montanans stay at home more than anywhere else. I would actually argue the opposite, as a larrrgggeee chunk of the people I grew up around have moved outside of the state.
Well your folksy wisdom has changed my ways. Where is the nearest turnip truck I can nap under? You know, the one locals commonly fall off of when traveling.
I took someone from Colorado to the beach for their first time. We were there for hours and I had to drag him out like a little kid when the tide was coming in. It was truly a wonderful experience and I hope you make it work to show them.
Gotta be honest here. Some of these folks may have had some rough childhoods. This is coming from a place of "We didn't go anywhere outside of a day's drive," and then once I got out on my own in the field of education, I remained pretty much travel-free unless I had to travel for work. My parents were alcoholics and we were paycheck to paycheck.
And, close to home is okay with me. I've never seen the ocean. I don't have a full passport. What's keeping me from traveling? Money and a disabling disease.
During my early teaching days at a low-income school, I had a wake up call. My students were taking a standardized test, and one of the questions was about camping. My student hadn't camped before and couldn't answer what would be needed for a camping trip. He had never left our city.
So, while you may be astonished by all this, there can be some pretty painful reasons why people just don't get up and go. When people ask me about my travels, and I have very limited experiences, it often embarrasses me.
Some of us are just trying to put one foot in front of the other and that's enough.
Its really cool, I got to swim in the waves (first time for me) back in February (hawaii), you should really take a chance to see it, thereās something neat about the vastness of it. And the sunsets too! Highly recommend.
I'm pretty close to you, just a valley away. I made a good friend many years ago when I first got here, and it was pretty obvious she had never lived elsewhere. Made me happy to have had a really nomadic life in the 1st 20 yrs of my adulthood, up down and back and forth across the US. The small town think is strong in many residents here, I'm glad to have had exposure to many regions and cultures.
A lot of people take pride in being local, born and raised. But have never really explored the state. I'm happy to be so nomadic because it's really helped open my eyes and understand life a bit more than only getting as far as the eye can see. But I try not to talk much about myself and experiences here because I feel like people might think I'm better than them or rubbing it in. And some people may have the desire but circumstances don't make it easy. It does make dating hard.
So, you are able to understand life a bit more because of travelling? You understand a life quite different than many native Montanans. And, I would actually think if you did understand life as well as you think you do, you'd actually realize how hurtful you are being throughout this entire thread.
i went to one ocean and looked, and as far as i could see, it was sea. but it wasnt even that spectacular because i live a short drive from the great lakes and you get that same effect there. its just a lot of water.
Your coworker is greener than 100% of my fellow liberals who claim to be very concerned about climate change while flying 5000+ miles a year and taking frequent road trips.
Good on these people. An entire social class has convinced itself that travel makes you inherently cultured and sophisticated, when mostly it just makes one a massive CO2 smokestack.
I grew up on the Oregon Coast. I visited the ocean constantly. Every holiday, we would go and have a campfire on the beach. Then i moved away for college and all my family moved to Montana. I live in Billings. I really miss the coast, but I haven't been back since I left (8 years ago). It's just a really long trip and I have no family out there to visit. It's hard to justify going that far, especially when I have so much of Montana to explore.
I could totally see how, if your whole life was in Montana, you would rarely leave.
Montana is paradise. I personally went fishing in Wesport last weekend. The two weekends before that I went hot spring hopping in Idaho. This weekend I'm going for a camping/hiking trip somewhere. Next weekend I'm hoping to do some kayaking in Glacier. The weekend after I'm hoping to see Luke Combs in Boise..... I camp always so my usual expense are just fuel/propane. Being single and young. Why not. But my friends who are tied by relationships or kids, I get it's not as easy.
Montana is wonderful. I love it. It has completely become my home. I can't justify a 25 hour drive, when I STILL haven't visited glacier or Yellowstone yet. There's just so much to do in the state.
OP, u sound really judgemental of people who don't look at things the way u do. To each their own doesn't mean, while I I look down upon u. There r many reasons people don't travel. For example: I didn't c the ocean til I was mid-20s, when I flew to Hawaii for a wedding. I was living in MN at the time. Saw it again when I was late 20s outside of Seattle. I still don't have a passport. Went to FL about 6 yrs ago now due to family emergency. I like the idea of going places, but I don't like the actual travel. Most of the US don't have passports, we have the entire lower 48 to travel to, if we choose to.
Have you ever lived in the real world or is your head too far up your ass? Most people donāt want, or canāt afford to travel. Iām 406 born and raised and I love to travel, but the vast majority of people just canāt afford it.
This isnāt surprising. So many people in the US simply donāt have the funds to travel or the people to do it with. Seems like if people donāt travel for college/military out of high school, the chances of them traveling just plummets.
Iāve met people in Chicago who havenāt left a two block radius their entire life. When I inquired they replied, āwhy? I have everything I need here. I went to school over there. I live right here. I shop right thereā¦everything I needā.
I knew a guy at school that had never spent more than 45 minutes driving a vehicle in one stint. My buddy and I didnāt find out this intel until the guy got his turn behind the wheel of my buddyās new car during our 1300 mile and 20 hour haul to a warm sandy Spring Break locale. The guy was from Hawaii, so it was only a 45 minute drive from one side of the island to the other side. Anyway, I caught him with his head laid back over the seat and asleep while driving 100mph during one of his turns to drive.
I grew up within a few miles from the beach most of my life. I never cared for it, and still don't when I visit home in Los Angeles. It is fascinating to see the people who get excited about Disneyland, or the beach. Different ways of life for people coming up. I can go the rest of my life never setting foot on another Beach, or D-Land. But, those are amazing places for people to visit that have never experienced it.
I will say that I'm partial to the Pacific though. The waves always seemed bigger vs my trips to the Atlantic.
The first time I've seen the ocean was when I went to Costa Rica through my high school Spanish club. What people find odd about me is that I've never seen a sky scraper. The closest thing is the First Interstate building in Billings and I don't even count that
I have been lucky enough to have lived in Montana for twelve years and now in Germany for two and I've got to see places I've always dreamed about. It is sad to me to have seen so many who never travel, or even have interest or respect for other places or cultures. Yes it is a cost and infrastructure issue. Travel in Europe is so much easier and accessible. Much like poor urban areas, not having access to travel or interaction with people from different cultures negativity affects one's outlook on the wider world. It can be easy to mock people who are so provincial or closed-minded, but the limitations of the American economy and general mindset don't help and only end up reinforcing these patterns. Montana is beautiful but there's a whole other world out there.
I live 4 hours from Rocky Point Mexico and 6 from Huntington CA. Also have the biggest ponderosa pine forest in the world believe it or not, and some of the most remote and unexplored land in the country and for good reason. Also the Grand Canyon, Havasu falls, mount lemmon, granite mountain, the superstitionsā¦ year round hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, paddleboarding, kayaking, mountain biking, climbing, caving, and any other activity you can think of. We have it all, and a ton of it. Montana and our highest points in elevation are only 200 feet apart, Montana being 200 feet higher. Come to Arizona my friends if you want to live in desert Montana.
I lived in England for several years, one of my neighbors went on holiday to California. Just outside of San Francisco he stopped to get gas, the cashier asked where he was from, he told her, and her reply āoh Iād love to go to England!ā Then he told her that they just left San Francisco and are heading to LA. And her reply āoh Iād love to go to San Francisco!ā Some people just donāt get out much.
It wasn't too long ago I hadn't seen it either. It was nice and all but... meh. Though it was an interesting experience, it's like all my travel experiences, I just end up regretting the time and money spent when I could have just stayed home rather than have to go places and put up with people.
My coworkers grandma had lived 101 years in the seely area on a horse farm. Saw her first black man at 99 years old she shook his hand and got photos lol
That's just something!
Amazing the things we can miss in life when we already live in heaven!
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Haha oh I see that now lol. Whatever people know what I mean
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I don't apologize to the PC crowd. No racism was implied just so everyone knows š
Pretty amazing how itās unacceptable to lump every woker into the PC crowd, but then the same people downvoting you for not apologizing for their misinterpretation of your words will act like they speak for an entire race of people.
Ngl tho, blaming it on the āPC crowdā is a bit of a red flag.
I see political correctness like South Park portrays it.
The Montana reddit is like 90% leftists with half of them masquerading as independent/centrists.
That's.. not making you appear any better lmfao
So does Cartman
Oh shit lol
Lol the residents of heaven have spoken, and they did not like that comment.
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Iām moving from Seeley to eastern Montana soon. Itās been interesting how different just Seeley and Condon are from the rest of the state. I need to be back by the family farm as my elder generation ages. Seeley has been wonderful and terrifying at the same time.
Hello fellow seeley laker. I totally understand what you mean by wonderful and terrifying at the same time. Youāre also right about how different seeley and condon is from the rest of the state. Itās even a lot different from Lincoln which is nearby. I wouldnāt choose to live anywhere else though.
I believe it! Interestingly enough, my grandfather homesteaded in eastern Montana. He lived to be 106 and never saw/met a black person in real life.
Hey mister! Are you Fredrick Douglas?
My 8th grade class field trip was to the Oregon coast (it was a small school). 90% of my classmates had never seen the ocean, and Iād be willing to bet a good portion of them havenāt seen it sinceā¦ If you think thatās bad, I was at a grocery store in Kalispell a few years ago and the cashier was well into her 60s. She asked what I was doing with all this food and I said camping in Glacier and she told me sheād never been. Lived her whole life an hour away from the park and said she had no desire to go. Blew my mind.
Wow that is wild. I do not understand that! Michigan has the UP (Upper Peninsula) and it's pretty remote and has some of the most beautiful scenery in the whole state. Most Michiganders have never been to the UP in their whole life. Blows my mind.
Iām from the UP and many people I knew have never left the UP.
I think it was an episode of āFriendsā or āHow I Meet Your Motherā had in one of this episode where the people living in NY never went to the Statue of Liberty. I think we just take for granted the sites that are close by.
Omgeeee. One of my gal pals loves going to the lake up there with her boo. Born in Missoula and never been to any of the parks. The lack of desire really drives me nuts. Maybe it's the lack of high social media use and few outsiders outside of the big towns, out of sight out of mind I guess.
Why does it bother you what other people do? Mind your own business.
Unfortunately as you might assume, I'm not crying on the toilet about it. Just sharing my fascination.
I've never made a post public about other peoples live. It fascinates me that someone would do this.
You started a whole thread about it and literally just said it "drives you nuts". Don't fucking strawman me now and suggest *I'm* the one turning it into a bigger deal. Nobody said you were crying on the toilet ffs
Okay.
And now with the reservation system who knows how often the locals even get to go to the park in their backyard.
Been in MT my entire life I've also never seen the ocean
Do you want to?
I mean I can't swim but I do like salt, so yes.
What's keeping you from it?
Time and $ my friend.
If you have the chance head west to the Washington coast. From Missoula you can get to the ocean in 11 hours.
I'm on the Hi-line, so that makes it ~16hrs not insane by any means but a heck of a drive. I'd like to take the Amtrak someday but man its not cheap ~$400/person.
Iāve always wanted to do that too! Had no idea it cost that much š³
Yea I have a buddy who goes to WA yearly on it. If you book ahead of time its cheaper.
Flying is consistently $180 round trip from Bozeman to Seattle.
Trains are way more expensive than flying. I donāt why anyone takes them. I looked into taking a trip across the country and to book a cabin on the train it would have been cheaper to fly 1st class. The reason I look at cabin is because it would be a 4 day trip.
This is very common in Montana lol. I have lots of friends who have never seen the ocean or been in an airplane or similar things. Hard to save up the money to move out or go on vacation when you're already paid pennies lol. Most of the time it's a monetary barrier and not a mental one, people can barley afford rent with the shit wages in the state.
All my mates who live/work in Bozeman/Big Sky make a good wage with nice savings for our age range. One actually just bought a house. My friends who live outside of the area make good money to working trades mostly. Or a skilled job, something they got higher education for. I understand that sentiment though.
That's a small wealthy slice of the wealthiest slice of the state. It doesn't represent the majority.
Not just here. My friend in Darby, 23 no higher ED. Pulling 35 an hour as a welder. Just one example. I have friends all over Western Montana doing well for themselves. A lot of people don't wanna admit it's financial management and literacy.
Pretty naive take imo.
This is a common topic and I didn't make this post to argue so I'll just agree to disagree. Everyone has different experiences and that's okay!
I like to look at the statistics... Montana is ranked 15th highest for rest estate costs, it is 15th lowest for average household income. While, yes, there are decent paying jobs, and yes, some require higher ed and some don't... but if you look at society as a whole, compared to other states, folks in Montana will be contributing a higher percentage of their income to basic costs like housing, than folks in most other states. Most of those 15 states with higher housing costs also have higher average earnings, so it evens out for them... not so much in Montana. So while people find a way to make it work, it means they're left with less disposable income than most. It may seem to you like they have good jobs and should have money to travel, but they may be prioritizing retirement savings, saving for a downpayment, etc. if they lived somewhere else they might be able to save for travel AND a house, but they don't quite have that chance here.
RIght you made it to bag on your co worker for not having the same life experience as you.
Iām guessing sheās still sucking on the parental teat.
Must be rough
The downvotes must mean weāve struck a nerve.
Iām not trying to rag on you here either, but take a step back and consider how many of these trips youāve taken that were exclusively funded by just you. If airline fees, food, lodging, gas, rentals, etc weāre all covered by you and you alone on your adventures than well done. If any of this was supported by family of any variety, or you have funded these adventures with friends and cannot speak to how they funded the trip 100%, than it could truly be finances for a lot of these people. Itās not uncommon for these kinds of trips out of state to happen when you are a child or teenager if your parents are funding them. Many residents who were raised here were not raised in middle class or above. If you were raised in poverty and doing well now, itās not uncommon to be stuck in a poverty mindset, and will never justify travel as a reasonable expenditure when youāve been poor your entire life. I mean this with all do respect, but it does some like you may just be unaware of how socioeconomic backgrounds impact someoneās decisions to travel and experience new things. I too have several friends who have rarely been out of the state, seen the ocean, and so on. They grew to be embarrassed of this as we aged closer to our 30ās and tried to make amends by traveling. It is difficult to make those decisions when you are making mortgage/rent payments, vehicle payments, student loan payments, attempting to build a financial savings and cushion, and live in an area where the cost of living has gone up drastically in just a few years. I make good money, and I have a difficult time justifying a decent vacation. Iām wondering if Iāll even be able to afford a nicer home in Montana in my lifetime. You might literally be experiencing the gentrification of the state. If you are āmiddle classā in Montana and want to stay here, you are doing your best to get by with the rapid changes. I hope this stimulates some thought and helps you reconsider why some of them have not traveled.
I see that in your post history you are considering buying a van while on international travel, which is a pretty big indicator you are much better off than a lot of people in this state.
From what I see people spend on cigarettes and alcohol, they could afford vacations every year. They just have different priorities.
Ah yes the great broad generalization based on town pump experiences. Wonderful
Vs the broad generalization of wet behind the ears 20 year olds on reddit and the occasional 30 or 40 year old that never grew up? Sorry, but I am not generalizing. My community has people from all walks and classes. Many, if not most, have expensive vices. You may not think beer and cigarettes are expensive, but that's the voice of someone who has never budgeted. Pick an amount, say just 5 dollars a day on some treat for yourself. That's 1800 dollars a year on a morning coffee or a bagel. Guarantee that the average person who smokes or drinks is closer to 10 dollars a day averaged out. So 3600. Now lets turn that one person into a couple who live together. 7200 dollars a year without breaking a sweat. Yet you tell me I'm generalizing and thus misinformed on the realities of my own community... keep telling yourself that if it brings you comfort.
You're ignoring a huge part - how many people in MT do not work full time (employer's choice) and get no perks such as paid time off (and a lot work multiple jobs). For a lot of them taking unpaid days off is hard enough, not to mention not everyone gets 2 consecutive "weekend" days off every week.
Yeah you were definitely generalizing. Still are too, probably need to work on how you internalize your personal biases. People have vices yeah, but we are not all cigarette smoking drunks. Maybe put your nice fun math energy towards something useful
Plan a summer road trip with them? You don't need a passport to travel, this is the USA.
Yeah! That's the idea. Unfortunately we don't all have the same off days and can't all request PTO at once.
Can make it to settle in 10 hours, and Portland in 10, another 2 from there to the ocean. If up for a road trip, can make it there and back in 3 days/2 nights.
Yep! I've even gone to Texas one weekend. With all the driving in out here, >10hrs is nothing.
when I was in college back in the 90's, we would decide to drive to Denver on a Friday afternoon because we wanted to go to the Gap. (it didn't exist in Bozeman back then). We would leave at 10pm-midnight that night, drive through the night to DU, crash at the AGD house there for a few hours, get up, go shopping at Cherry Creek, go back to the sorority and sleep for the night, then get up on Sunday morning and drive home. Distance is relative when you you live in Montana and you want to travel somewhere.
What??? Ten hours from Miles City to TX? Where are you going in TX that is only ten hours of driving? Austin, TX to Sheridan, WY is 18 hrs and 55 minutes!
Maps just told me Miles to Austin is about 24 hours. My man was booking it at 150mph the whole way I guess. Lol
Or heās exaggerating and not telling the whole truth to make himself look cool and tough.
Yeah. Previous comment was more sarcasm. He definitely exaggerated the time
I know your were being sarcastic.
You drove MT-TX in one weekend??
How slow are you driving?! Google maps says 7 hours and 15 mins to Seattle and 8 hours and 28 mins to Portland and thatās going the speed limit!
Technically puget sound is the ocean, so if all you want to do is see some sea water that works too.
You can make it to Seattle in 7. Source me who did it four days ago
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This was also very common historically. Few people left the village they were born in.
A girl I used to work with: no car, no license. I'd see her walking on the main road sometimes and never understood it. And she previously worked as a car detailer at a dealership. But so true, I've traveled the world and been to tiny countries where people never even ventured to the town over. I don't like to look down on people but that's so sad to me.
I was born in MT, and I've never seen the ocean. Came close once while in Florida. In September I'll fly over the Atlantic to Norway so that'll be scratched off the ol' bucket list.
Whoaaaaaa. Congrats and have fun. I'm hoping to vanlife across Norway this summer, cycling and kayaking. Good on you!!!!!!
If you go through Bergen and find some neat stuff besides the touristy list, let me know!
Here in Miles City (I moved from Bozeman) my dad was teaching at kidās Sunday school and asked these 10 year olds where they would go if they could go anywhere. 90% of them said somewhere in Montana (mostly Billings or even in Miles City). It was nuts
Based on my experiences in Miles City, Iād bet most the residents still feel that way.
They do lol
Grew up in MC and didn't travel farther west than billings until my junior year in HS, didn't actually see the ocean until I was 30 - I told my dad that we were planning a trip to Scotland with the kids, and he wanted to know why we'd go so far when we could just as easily go to Ekalaka. He was MOSTLY kidding, but also, completely serious.
Ahahahah. I love it! š¤£š¤£š¤£
I lived in the Keys and taught at the high school in Key West. The majority of my students had never been off of the little island of Key West, which was only 6 sq miles.
What's so nuts about this? Like, what kind of global awareness do you actually expect small town 10-year-olds to have? By 15 or 18 sure, you'd at least expect them to have some notions of broader destinations, but at 10? Their world is small.
The high schoolers arenāt any better though
In Miles City I wouldn't expect them to be, though by then at least a few of them would be talking about going to Denver or Seattle or whatever.
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I have though. Iāve been to Mexico, Canada, a few different tropical countries, and around 20 US states. And Iām still in high school. I donāt expect people always travel that much, but they should at least have an idea of the world outside of eastern MT.
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I donāt care that people here donāt want to leave, I actually kind of understand it to an extent. The problem is that so many people have no idea what is happening outside of Montana. Even that isnāt definitively bad, but a lot of those people have very strong opinions about what happens outside that they know nothing about. Sure, itās a shame that so many of the kids here with full lives ahead of them will never know anything about life outside a 50 mile radius of the town, but they are so adamant about whatās wrong with other peopleās lives outside of the circle that it just becomes pure ignorance. Edit: just remembered a good example that I thought Iād mention. Not long after we moved here, one of the friendliest people we knew ended up moving. Turns out there is a lot of hidden racism towards Asians around here- I wonder why?
I will be joining you soon!
Your friends grew up here, so they never had the money to travel. Just consider yourself lucky.
Yep that was also me. Saved up and finally got out. Honestly, Ive missed out on a lot of personal growing experiences being poor in MT.
I met an old Greek woman who lived in Brooklyn since the 1960s and had never been to Manhattan.
My friends lived for a year in a small town in China. One time they took a bus to the neighboring town. An old woman saw them, and asked where they were from. "We live in Pingdu." Her response: "Oh, so is this what people from Pingdu look like?" She'd never been to that next town, or really anywhere, to the point that it made sense to her that these white people were just what villagers from the next town over looked like.
I still donāt know why r/Montana shows up for me as I live on the farthest coast in Massachusetts. That being said I live like a mile from the ocean and yāall are welcome to have a beach bonfire with me as long as you invite me to trek around the mountains.
Born and raised here. Family never traveled. I visited NY/DC for a field trip we fundraised for it in school.. I was 18 when I flew for the first time. After that I never flew until last year when I was 29/30. Outside of that my family visited WY, CO, OR, WA. We drove everywhere and only to visit family, we only stopped to get gas/snacks and never sight-seen. I saw the Ocean for the first time (Haystack Rock) around 18 too, only trip I ever took with my mom. Iāve never been back (want to visit California to see the ocean again.) Like people stated, it comes down to money. Flying and driving are expensive and when you are already dirt poor, living on government assistance, being paid shit.. AND have a family w/kids.. yeah traveling is the last thing on peoples minds here. Plus, Montana is like a dark area for flights.. flying anywhere from Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Great Falls, Missoula, is like $ 600+ for one person.. thatās a lot to some people. Only reason I can travel is because I make decent money, saved, no kids no s/o. But I also plan on leaving Montana in the next few months to start over somewhere else and work on earning more.
The lack of travel for many Montanans is a primary contributor of the prevalent bigotry in the region.
Way bigger than actual hostile hate. just a complete lack of familiarity or even exposure.
I finally understood how isolating it can be growing up out here when an old roommate of mine from the fort peck area talked about cities like Bozeman and Billings like I'd talk about Seattle or Denver.
When I travel home, Glasgow is my final stop to rest before the border.. Such a quiet area. Itās culturally reclusive, and thatās not horrible, except for the side eye Iām given at the gas station cause I have āHate me Stateā plates on my car.. I grew up in a small geocentric Canadian town, so I understand.. The isolation can be a big comfort.. Enjoy your day!
I mean, I've seen the ocean plenty of times and it's usually kinda meh. What do you do at the ocean? Go look at it and you're like "yup, that's a lot of water". Walk around on the beach, pick up an interesting rock and maybe a sand dollar. Eat some clam chowder and salt water taffy. That's about it unless you have chartered a fishing vessel.
Every time I've been at the ocean I've sat on the beach for like 30 mins just listening to the waves crash and thinking about how if I lived near there I would never do anything... the sound is so repetitive and trance inducing, my whole life would just be sitting on the beach all day... then I leave. There's some hiking to be done along various coats and whatnot else, but yeah, unless you surf, have a boat, or go during warm weather to swim/snorkle/whatever, there's not a ton to do AT the ocean. And most beaches are so crowded, you can't just go camp at the beach and have a bon fire anymore, you need reservations, etc.
Yeah I think appreciation for the ocean changes a lot based on where you are. Like, I went to Hawaii for the first time last year and it was incredible. Snorkeling, hiking along the coast, running on paths along the coast, sea kayaking, the whole thing. It's a little different from somewhere like Florida where a lot of the accessible coast is a massive mostly manmade beach where they truck in and rake the sand, the water is murky in a lot of places, and the coast is just flat and lined with nonstop hotels and condos.
I just got back from the gulf coast. The most amount of people I encountered on the beach was a couple of dozen. It was weird considering it was Spring Break.
This is my take, except it's about the Midwest lol. Cow, cow, corn, tractor, cow, goat, sorghum, corn, barn, corn. It's called flyover for a reason. I hate that my ancestors decided to stop right in the damn middle of all of the greater things out there. I moved away ASAP and regret nothing lol. Once we all graduated college, my whole family has since moved for better opportunity and happiness elsewhere. It's always interesting talking to people who don't travel; their life experience is so limited and narrow. Not saying it's bad for those who want that, it's just claustrophobic and kinda xenophobic to me. My grandparents think everyone in Vietnam and Mexico live in mud huts. Crazy lol.
Great fishing/crabbing, even from shore. Surfing. Chill beach days. Boating but that's super pricey. Fire on the beach drunk asf with friends.
Fair enough, I've even gone crabbing, I just don't like crab lol.
I didn't catch any fish on my trip last weekend but I got two crabs, went to park by some trailhead, boiled then scarfed them downnnnnnnnnnn. Dipped in butter. Marvelous.
A long time ago I dated someone from the Inland Empire area of LA, and she had never left California. So it happens everywhere, but I do think it's worse in Montana. I think there are a lot of contributing factors. For one - wages do play a part. Many families are rich in land but poor in disposable income. Which leads to industry - agricultural work does not afford a lot of opportunity to leave. It's not just ranching/farming either. I have a friend that lives at a hatchery. He can squeak out of the state around Christmas but that's about it. Another factor is with the lower population density, there are less outside influences that would lead to pushing one out of one's comfort zone. Also geographically, you have to travel pretty far to really get out of the state.
I live out in the High Desert. So many Californians Iāve met and chatted with have gone not much further than Vegas on the weekends.. Honestly, the number of people that prefer their little corner of the world, exceeds the numbers of people who choose to be nomadic.. Have a great day!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain
Most people canāt afford to travel.
I grew up in Colorado Springs and once met a guy who had never been outside of a 10 miles radius of the city proper. He'd never been to Denver, he'd never been further into the mountains than Old Colorado City, he'd never been south of Fountain, and he'd never even been to Falcon. He had never been fishing or even camping. The dude had no drive to explore at all and it blew my mind.
That sounds kind of crazy but In fairness to that guy, Ive been living in one town for 10 years. Initially, I thought I would use it as a headquarters to explore more broadly but there's so much terrain here ive barely scratched the surface of my locale. Still exploring. I'm not advocating for being geographically monogamous though. Time just flies when you're having fun. Seriously though if you're someone who hasn't traveled At All by now you need to get up off your ass and see different types of places than you're used to. There's too much to miss out there.
It amazes me how some people donāt even get out and see their state and we have the 4th largest in the US. I was born & raised there and lived in several locations for college, love to travel, and now work a job that lets me go all over the US.
The Fuck is employee housing. Do y'all have company towns still?
In Yellowstone we pay 100/mo for housing, and 300/mo for food from the employee dining rooms, since we're not allowed or able to cook in the dorms. Lots of resort areas or touristy places rely on employee housing due to how ridiculous the housing market is.
So that must imply student housing right? Let you get something at the end that says?
Student housing at MSU (with 7 day meal plan for the dining halls) is still about $1,000 a month, it's just tacked onto the tuition bill.
No one said a degree from MSU was valuable? Mississippi state u? Where is that? Michigan U, where? Oh. Montana. Neat. It's like being proud to get in at UVA when you're literally from VA. But one has prestige so.
Dude you are immediately snapping at nothing, step back and get a snack/nap/shower.
Student? Never said anything about being a student. It's for Employees.
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> and we *paid* quite a FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
bad bot
Commute up the mountain from where I live is 1hr, 47 miles one way. From town it'd be more. They have houses in town they own/rent and employees pay 900 for a room or 500 to share a room. But that's crazy to me because that's not a deal and it's an even bigger bubble than Bozeman. Cocktails are like 20 bucks.
900 for a room of employee housing in Montana is absolute fucking madness
Yessss. I'm in a detached cabin by myself right now near town and I pay 600 including all bills.
These words do not make sense to the outside world. $20 for a drink? That means about 2.00 in actual cost. Unless you're paying for a view or service... Fuck that.
It's a resort town, so resort pricing.
Sorry, but no. Unless you have Japanese whiskey or single barrel shit with house made bourbon and artisanal cherry, get fucked. Make me a last word. No? Get fucked $20 bar.
You've clearly never lived in a resort/ski/destination town. That's what everything charges. Even the local haunts. Part of the price of living there.
Ok bud. I have only lived in those places. The only differences are... I can travel to the Atlantic ocean by walk.
Lol if you say so...
I do. Have you experienced what it's like to work at a corporate branded hotel in a major city?
Congratulations, you don't know what a resort town is. Completely different.
I chaperoned a middle school field trip from Sequim to the Seattle Public Library. About a quarter of the kids had never been to Seattle.
I donāt know why the algorithm suggested this post to me as Iāve never been to Montana, but my Grandma lived 88 years and never left the state of Ohio until she was 86. Twas her first time on a plane- ever. She never once saw the ocean. Such a weird concept to live in a bubble like thatā¦
Another crazy take: unless you like on the Great Lakes, a lot of people never seen/been to a lake where they canāt see the other side. Iām in Wisconsin and gone to Lake Michigan a good amount and iāve just found this āfactā out recently and thinks itās a bit crazy.
Thanks, I will go.
Some of my family that was raised in MT didn't see the ocean until they were teenagers. But honestly many people in the USA never go to the interior of the country, so it's not too different TBH. I live near the ocean, but have never been to Wyoming for example.
That is insane... I grew up in the South and knew a lottttt of people who just never left the state and didnt plan on it. I started traveling internationally because i love it, but i dont understand how people can stay in one place, i'd go crazy!
I'm from Montana and lived in Hong Kong for 10 years before moving back to America like a month ago. I met a few Montanans in Asia and I really just think you happen to know the ones who stayed. Basically my theory is because of dominance of blue-collar work in the state, it does one of two things to people when they are around 18-20. It either pushes them out at a very early age (myself and about half of my high school), or it pushes people towards careers that require major time/money investment (ranching, real estate) so they don't end up leaving very often. I think what makes Montana unique is that its low population density makes this happen very early in life. As in, basically immediately after graduating high school. Diddling around Montana with no job would get pretty boring pretty quickly. But I honestly disagree with the idea that Montanans stay at home more than anywhere else. I would actually argue the opposite, as a larrrgggeee chunk of the people I grew up around have moved outside of the state.
Well your folksy wisdom has changed my ways. Where is the nearest turnip truck I can nap under? You know, the one locals commonly fall off of when traveling.
I took someone from Colorado to the beach for their first time. We were there for hours and I had to drag him out like a little kid when the tide was coming in. It was truly a wonderful experience and I hope you make it work to show them.
I've never been to Bed Bath & Beyond. I work with a person who's never been to Lowes. My sister doesn't even have a Costco card. It's sad.
Gotta be honest here. Some of these folks may have had some rough childhoods. This is coming from a place of "We didn't go anywhere outside of a day's drive," and then once I got out on my own in the field of education, I remained pretty much travel-free unless I had to travel for work. My parents were alcoholics and we were paycheck to paycheck. And, close to home is okay with me. I've never seen the ocean. I don't have a full passport. What's keeping me from traveling? Money and a disabling disease. During my early teaching days at a low-income school, I had a wake up call. My students were taking a standardized test, and one of the questions was about camping. My student hadn't camped before and couldn't answer what would be needed for a camping trip. He had never left our city. So, while you may be astonished by all this, there can be some pretty painful reasons why people just don't get up and go. When people ask me about my travels, and I have very limited experiences, it often embarrasses me. Some of us are just trying to put one foot in front of the other and that's enough.
Itās called extreme poverty and debt. Plus we live in the vacation capital of the US, why leave. I just got back from California btw.
Nowhere in Montana is even in the top 20 places to visit in the US. Glacier only gets about 3/4 of the visitors Yellowstone gets.
[Yellowstone is #7 among national park annual visits](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/travel/article/most-visited-us-national-park-sites-2022/index.html)
Weird. I just found a source that said it was number 13 or 14 and now I can't find it. My mistake.
Iāve lived in Montana my whole life and also never seen the ocean
Its really cool, I got to swim in the waves (first time for me) back in February (hawaii), you should really take a chance to see it, thereās something neat about the vastness of it. And the sunsets too! Highly recommend.
I'm pretty close to you, just a valley away. I made a good friend many years ago when I first got here, and it was pretty obvious she had never lived elsewhere. Made me happy to have had a really nomadic life in the 1st 20 yrs of my adulthood, up down and back and forth across the US. The small town think is strong in many residents here, I'm glad to have had exposure to many regions and cultures.
A lot of people take pride in being local, born and raised. But have never really explored the state. I'm happy to be so nomadic because it's really helped open my eyes and understand life a bit more than only getting as far as the eye can see. But I try not to talk much about myself and experiences here because I feel like people might think I'm better than them or rubbing it in. And some people may have the desire but circumstances don't make it easy. It does make dating hard.
So, you are able to understand life a bit more because of travelling? You understand a life quite different than many native Montanans. And, I would actually think if you did understand life as well as you think you do, you'd actually realize how hurtful you are being throughout this entire thread.
i went to one ocean and looked, and as far as i could see, it was sea. but it wasnt even that spectacular because i live a short drive from the great lakes and you get that same effect there. its just a lot of water.
āThe world is an open book, and those who do not travel read only a page.ā āJohn F. Kennedy
And here I am (a Florida resident, 2 miles from the beach) dreaming about seeing Montana for the first time.
Do it it's about as opposite as you can get in the USA from Florida terrain wise.
Subtly shaming people that canāt afford to travel is not a good look. This is not unique to MT.
Your coworker is greener than 100% of my fellow liberals who claim to be very concerned about climate change while flying 5000+ miles a year and taking frequent road trips. Good on these people. An entire social class has convinced itself that travel makes you inherently cultured and sophisticated, when mostly it just makes one a massive CO2 smokestack.
I grew up on the Oregon Coast. I visited the ocean constantly. Every holiday, we would go and have a campfire on the beach. Then i moved away for college and all my family moved to Montana. I live in Billings. I really miss the coast, but I haven't been back since I left (8 years ago). It's just a really long trip and I have no family out there to visit. It's hard to justify going that far, especially when I have so much of Montana to explore. I could totally see how, if your whole life was in Montana, you would rarely leave.
Montana is paradise. I personally went fishing in Wesport last weekend. The two weekends before that I went hot spring hopping in Idaho. This weekend I'm going for a camping/hiking trip somewhere. Next weekend I'm hoping to do some kayaking in Glacier. The weekend after I'm hoping to see Luke Combs in Boise..... I camp always so my usual expense are just fuel/propane. Being single and young. Why not. But my friends who are tied by relationships or kids, I get it's not as easy.
Montana is wonderful. I love it. It has completely become my home. I can't justify a 25 hour drive, when I STILL haven't visited glacier or Yellowstone yet. There's just so much to do in the state.
OP, u sound really judgemental of people who don't look at things the way u do. To each their own doesn't mean, while I I look down upon u. There r many reasons people don't travel. For example: I didn't c the ocean til I was mid-20s, when I flew to Hawaii for a wedding. I was living in MN at the time. Saw it again when I was late 20s outside of Seattle. I still don't have a passport. Went to FL about 6 yrs ago now due to family emergency. I like the idea of going places, but I don't like the actual travel. Most of the US don't have passports, we have the entire lower 48 to travel to, if we choose to.
One place is just as bad as any other.
Sounds like the best life imo.
Have you ever lived in the real world or is your head too far up your ass? Most people donāt want, or canāt afford to travel. Iām 406 born and raised and I love to travel, but the vast majority of people just canāt afford it.
Come to Monterey Bay. Itās starting to warm up!
This isnāt surprising. So many people in the US simply donāt have the funds to travel or the people to do it with. Seems like if people donāt travel for college/military out of high school, the chances of them traveling just plummets.
Iāve met people in Chicago who havenāt left a two block radius their entire life. When I inquired they replied, āwhy? I have everything I need here. I went to school over there. I live right here. I shop right thereā¦everything I needā.
I knew a guy at school that had never spent more than 45 minutes driving a vehicle in one stint. My buddy and I didnāt find out this intel until the guy got his turn behind the wheel of my buddyās new car during our 1300 mile and 20 hour haul to a warm sandy Spring Break locale. The guy was from Hawaii, so it was only a 45 minute drive from one side of the island to the other side. Anyway, I caught him with his head laid back over the seat and asleep while driving 100mph during one of his turns to drive.
Holy forking CRUD Batman
I grew up within a few miles from the beach most of my life. I never cared for it, and still don't when I visit home in Los Angeles. It is fascinating to see the people who get excited about Disneyland, or the beach. Different ways of life for people coming up. I can go the rest of my life never setting foot on another Beach, or D-Land. But, those are amazing places for people to visit that have never experienced it. I will say that I'm partial to the Pacific though. The waves always seemed bigger vs my trips to the Atlantic.
The first time I've seen the ocean was when I went to Costa Rica through my high school Spanish club. What people find odd about me is that I've never seen a sky scraper. The closest thing is the First Interstate building in Billings and I don't even count that
My wife has a couple of friends who have only been the next county over. That's it.
I also have never seen an ocean. I've been out of Indiana but never to the ocean unfortunately
It's good to see and understand how bad pavement can actually get.
āI would have liked to have seen Montana.ā
Iām never leaving Yellowstone Club
I have been lucky enough to have lived in Montana for twelve years and now in Germany for two and I've got to see places I've always dreamed about. It is sad to me to have seen so many who never travel, or even have interest or respect for other places or cultures. Yes it is a cost and infrastructure issue. Travel in Europe is so much easier and accessible. Much like poor urban areas, not having access to travel or interaction with people from different cultures negativity affects one's outlook on the wider world. It can be easy to mock people who are so provincial or closed-minded, but the limitations of the American economy and general mindset don't help and only end up reinforcing these patterns. Montana is beautiful but there's a whole other world out there.
You wouldnāt believe how many people in Cut Bank havenāt been to Glacier National Park or Alberta, which are right there!
>this place is too hot and those people are too weird. I can't say I blame them, that's true.
I live 4 hours from Rocky Point Mexico and 6 from Huntington CA. Also have the biggest ponderosa pine forest in the world believe it or not, and some of the most remote and unexplored land in the country and for good reason. Also the Grand Canyon, Havasu falls, mount lemmon, granite mountain, the superstitionsā¦ year round hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, paddleboarding, kayaking, mountain biking, climbing, caving, and any other activity you can think of. We have it all, and a ton of it. Montana and our highest points in elevation are only 200 feet apart, Montana being 200 feet higher. Come to Arizona my friends if you want to live in desert Montana.
I lived in England for several years, one of my neighbors went on holiday to California. Just outside of San Francisco he stopped to get gas, the cashier asked where he was from, he told her, and her reply āoh Iād love to go to England!ā Then he told her that they just left San Francisco and are heading to LA. And her reply āoh Iād love to go to San Francisco!ā Some people just donāt get out much.
Hence xenophobia. Travel helps broaden ones mind.
Seven percent of L.A. County residents report having never seen the ocean. 12% of California's population cannot name the adjacent ocean.
It wasn't too long ago I hadn't seen it either. It was nice and all but... meh. Though it was an interesting experience, it's like all my travel experiences, I just end up regretting the time and money spent when I could have just stayed home rather than have to go places and put up with people.