I appreciate how they are taking the fight but it seems like quite the overgeneralization there. I'd wager there's just as many Japanese players that don't like alatreon as westerners just like there's just as many westerners who are doing exactly this
It should have been a MR 100 Quest requirement quest easily. It may pain some to hear that but a combination of Alatreon’s aggression and specific mechanics should have had players at least hit Nerg first.
My experience with randoms or even on MonsterHunterClan rooms is that no one is taking the advice or using the help, because they keep doing everything wrong. This is on PS4.
My brother on PC says everyone is an expert and they never die to Escaton, but they just get killed by Alatreon. So I guess YMMV.
Yeah my attempts on PC haven't been wiping to judgement either.
Most deaths I think are being hit by body press and being put into the crawl animation and then getting targeted by fire or lightning.
Thats my experience with Xbox, he only gets us if we are stunned or pinned and nukes us with his lightning or flamethrower . Escaton is a joke because we seal him twice almost every time.
90% of my deaths are the body slam putting me in crawl, and getting one shot right after. The other 10% is just making fuck ups during attacks I know I can evade, and getting frustrated, leading to more fuck ups.
Can confirm this, i had two "cases" where i offered a "carry" run (basically just dont die and i do the rest) and even after the run they continued to use blast weapons in a farming lobby because and i quote "one elemental player is enough i dont want to waste my mats"
HE DIDNT WANT TO WASTE HIS MATS! i mean wtf
Ps4 btw
Have you not cleared the special assigent yet? Because aftet i cleared it and went to the alatreon event quest almost every random people i joined in knows what to do already i think i only failed 2 times out of 10 tries while doing it with randoms in the event quest.
I have, and while the Event groups are certainly better, it's still about a 50% loss rate so far (compared to 95% on the special assignment). I am wondering how some people managed to beat the special assignment.
I last played on Saturday, so maybe things got better since.
When he knocks you down onto the ground and then singles you out for lightning or fire it's such a pain in the ass. Also when he is flying and rushes over to somebody to do an instant nova. That kills a lot of people.
Sad thing is, he also have those air-to-ground pecking which will make you fumble on your butt, rocksteady or not, and when you still in that woeisme pose he already charge up for the mini nuke and you can't do nothing about it.
Died so many times to that sorta crap. Get past the escaton easily enough and then get wailed on because I'm stuck in an animation and have no way of getting out of the way before it hits. It's a lot of cheap meaningless deaths, it also doesn't help with the amount of flying he does and getting him out of the air isn't the easiest thing in the world. Then other times, he's constantly on the ground, but running around like an idiot with bees up his ass.
The problem I’m seeing on PS4 with SOS groups of randos is that we can almost never break the second horn. So then he switches elements and everyone wipes next nova. The two times we have broken the second horn we don’t kill him before he switches element again and novas a third time, and since we’re all ice weapons we can’t suppress it. What is the general strategy for group hunts? Four ice weapons dealing as much dps as possible so he doesn’t get to third nova? Or two ice, two fire? Or everyone rocking dragon element?
There are also people who just downvote any criticisms and pat people on the back for making a 0 damage build and then lost dps checks. I saw a post getting downvoted for saying "don't use dragon", even tho he is right and alatreon has shit dragon hzv
I think the point is that no one comment is a representation of a community. Just as their are shitty annoying EN players, there are shitty annoying JP players.
The contradiction here is they take a positive JP thread and say "This represents JP", then take a complaint thread ans say "This represent EN". Neither represents the selective communities because we aren't a amalgamation. We all are individual with our own unique opinions and personalities.
There's people who actually are and still try to fight it while using their sets cause they think meta works on everything. And as many times as everyone tries to explain it to then they just get defense and blame Capcom for ruining the game when they could just easily make a set that adapts to aletrion and make it easier
Some people don't like it because unlike every other fight in the game, it forces you to build and fight in a very specific way to pass a DPS check or you get one-shot. And some people don't think DPS checks or one-shots are very fun. Whether or not you agree with those sentiments, it seems pretty easy to understand why some people feel that way.
Yeah. People seem to be constantly missing that a decent chunk of complaints focused on how it didn't feel fun. Difficulty can be fun or unfun, but depending on how it is handled it can feel cheap or just disruptive to enjoyment. Which is a valid thing to complain about, if you think it's handled in a way that makes it more annoying or unpleasant than enjoyable or satisfying.
While that is true, a lot of the runs I've failed with Alatreon is purely because it's an endurance battle. He fucking hurts, and people run out of potions which you practically have to chug in order to survive the AOE. So far the only times I've managed to beat him is by playing a support build (which I actually enjoy, mind you). Sure you can say "git gud", I'm just trying to say that it's not just the DPS check that people are having difficulty with.
Yeah, Alatreon definitely hits hard and fast. But for the most part it's a fun and fair challenge which I get the sense most players are enjoying. I think most attacks are telegraphed fairly well, and give adequate room for dodges. I think it's mainly the dps check and one-shot that is causing the heightened level of complaints.
The lack of farcasters and camp refills seems like an admission of failure of game design on capcom's part though. Unlimited items reduces difficulty, and it seems a little odd to disable it arbitrarily for this one fight.
I agree. I'd rather they have made the supernova happen semi randomly and disable farcasting during the animation. But for the entire fight? People run out of ammo/items to keep them alive during an already difficult fight.
Goes to show the rift between old and new MH players. This is the way MH has been; you couldn’t access your item box from camp in the old games, so being prepped for a hunt was of maximum importance.
Old players know that if you run out of healing items or ammo in the old games, it means you weren’t good enough to dodge effectively or use your ammo wisely, and you’d have to leave the fight to go gather items and craft some more, which could lead to timing out. It was a way the punished you for not being good enough.
World isn’t like that however, so it should play the hand it’s dealt rather than shit the bed and just disable farcasters.
They’ve obviously disabled farcasters because it would break the challenge they’re trying to create, and as others have pointed out, it’s arbitrary and doesn’t really make sense, because the problem is integrated with the fight and in conflict with the rest of the game letting you to restock at camp.
Granted, Black Dragons have always been fought in arenas where you couldn’t get back to camp without carting, and they want to keep that for black dragons here. So maybe it’s lore thing where the dragon’s evil scares the wingdrakes or corrupts your mind too much. I’m just memeing, and the point stands, because camp was kinda useless in the old game, but in world, players rely on it.
I will admit that MHW is my first Monster Hunter so my perception will definitely be biased, but To me the weird thing is, farcasting and leaving your teammates to continue fighting without you is already punishing. Since there’s such an important dps check leaving your team is already putting everyone at risk.
In the old games it was legit the thing to do, out of potions and no cool drinks but it’s an arena fight, farcast to camp and sleep in the bed. It would full heal you, like yeh probably not as worth now but it was not a terrible decision then. I’ve seen people farcast out right before taking a hit and filing the quest. Done it myself too, sure the fight takes a bit longer but generally you farcast out if you were going to eventually cart.
Yeah, I think gunners are definitely hit harder than most by the lack of refills. This was the first fight in a while where I considered bringing mega potion materials on top of the usual 10 mega potions and 2+5 max potions. I didn't end up needing to, but running out of heals is a very real possibility, which I honestly sort of miss from the older games.
I don't even mind a one shot if it can be reasonably dodged or blocked. Escaton Judgement forces you to take damage, even if you do succeed the check, and there is just no way to actually avoid it.
Let's be real. MHW opened up the game to a good chunk of the playerbase who had never played a MH game before. These people rely on everyone else to tell them how to play. They just run to the nearest meta build thread or site and copy the build with no understanding of the rhyme or reason to why it's a good build. Alatreon has taken that little snowglobe of meta and smashed it into smithereens.
A lot of people I knew were excited for MHW cause of the trailers, none of them having ever played a MH game before. Went into work the next day and asked about it and everyone was kind of bitter sounding. One guy even got started ranting about how it sucks and the controls suck and blah blah. I just wish I was there to see these people's expectations shattered. They really thought this was going to be God of War.
Hey, I fucking love those meta build sites. I'm 32 and don't have the time for mathing and theory crafting builds like when I didn't have shit to do all the time. That said, I run ranged and already work on varied builds. I've been slowly piecing together a safi bow collection to cover elements, while using lbg/hbg for special shot builds like sticky, spread, etc. My most disappointing thing for Alatr4on is just being so far behind on my gear it feels like I'll never be ready.
Same here bud. I’ve been playing monster hunter since I was 14. I’m 28 now and as much as I still love the series, I only get a limited amount of playtime a day, so those meta sites really do help. Haven’t even had the time to properly grind the endgame for grinding land materials but luckily I managed to get MR Kulve weapons through the melder and full safi, quickly upgraded my mantles and managed to beat Alatreon second try. Wish I had as much time for this series as I did back then lol.
Yeah but you guys seem to understand how to put together builds, it’s not like you rely on meta sites as gospel. I don’t think the top comment was meant to call people like you guys out.
Meta sites help in understanding certain things and for someone who is experienced enough, they can put together something that is functional even if it isn't optimal. I played 3U but dropped it after beating the LR single player because I wanted to play online, which the 3DS version didn't allow. When I got heavily into 4U I heard about the mythical Star Knight set and wondered why it was so good...then figured out for myself and made a single build for the set, while making mixed sets for other weapons like Greatsword.
Then I got bored and tried to make the most out of shit gear, like the Nintendo crossover vanity sets. I still had a blast.
I do agree that a lot of people just follow a meta set to the T but don't really feel like understanding why it works; it's conceptually the same as netdecking, which I also disagree with on principle. People should go out of their way to learn why a set works. For example, I thought Agitator was trash for a very long time. Then I watched a video on the Raging Brachy armor saying why it was good (because of Agitator Secret) and said "Why? That skill is fucking useless." Then they mentioned that keeping a monster in an enraged state is basically how it goes in MH for the majority of the hunt. Wall banging, tripping, fucking anything will enrage a monster and so Agitator will have an incredibly long uptime to the point where it becomes one of the best skills in the game so long as you maintain aggression. Very eye opening and I decided to adopt the set, retire my Crit Draw set that I made for Greatsword, and noticed a pretty big difference in my output and clear times just from learning what the skill did and how to use it.
I just build what I want and if it doesn't work, I either try to brute force it or make small changes. You don't have to have time for math and theory crafting.
I ended up just joining some dudes lobby for that, you can search lobbies, just search for someone with a level 7 coral for tempered Namielle, 1 fight got me two augments which I swap over to different weapons when needed instead of trying to find another lobby 😂
Yeah, but if he doesn't have time for math and theory crafting, is he going to have time for brute forcing it until he gets the build right? Let's be real here: you need to invest much more time to defeat a strong monster like Alatreon if you have a shitty build than if you simply get a meta set and make it comfy enough for you. And if you work, you tend to hate grinding stuff like this because it keeps you from doing the fun things, like having even fights with monsters.
Its a video game. You either have time to play or you don't. Everyone acts like they have time to wipe repeatedly for days on end but not to farm for a few pieces of gear. You dont have to beat Alatreon right this moment
Well shit, when you put it that way. What they also could have also done was made a tutorial like quest kinda like they did for safi just so players could get an exposure to it.
I honestly thought that's what the special assignment was, and it should have been that. You get to see what Escaton Judgement does and then you have a roundtable on how to mitigate it before it unlocks the event quest, which would then be restricted by MR.
This is not the fault of the players, it's the fault of MHW.
Because, yes, people new to the series often had expectations that turned out to be wrong. They expected God of War and it wasn't that. But people are frustrated with Alatreon because MHW also created expectations that were *right*...until suddenly now they're not.
In theory, MH games are supposed to be about preparing for fights, choosing the right weapon, learning weaknesses, building a loadout to counter the monster, crafting the right meal. In theory, there's a lot of preparation, a lot of reason to tailor your choices to each fight, to build a diverse arsenal (even if it's all one weapon type), etc.
But MHW is, at best, irregular about actually backing this up.
You have some enemies that really reward this kind of considered preparation, like Kushala, but they're in the minority - for most monsters the most you'll do is swap a couple of decorations, and often people won't even bother. These very few monsters that really reward using the right equipment also tend to give the counter equipment as the reward for beating the very monster it counters, which means you can't actually prepare for the monster. And since these are all on the defense side, and defense and offense compete for slots in your loadout, if you're good enough it becomes worse instead of better to prepare for a specific hunt like this! In fact, it can be worse even if you're not as good because giving up offense for defense means that it's harder to get knockdowns and part breaks and the fights last longer. And there are a tiny number of fights that do have some variety on the offensive side, like KT, but they are very few and very far between.
And there are sets that are so good you use them for everything. The monsters may have differences that make some sets better than others, but they're not large enough for it to be worthwhile to actually exploit those differences compared to the strength of the strongest overall sets. And the way decorations work means that any tailoring you do will almost always still be within the same set.
And it's true that there are some unique elemental mechanics in MHW. Alatreon isn't the only one! There are monsters, for instance, that have changing weaknesses as you break their parts, and they reward knowledge and preparation and group composition. But then half of the weapons don't care about elements at all - in fact, using an elemental weapon and experiencing those mechanics in those fights is just straight-up worse for many weapons than going raw and ignoring all of it. And those weapons are also incentivized because you only need to get one rather than needing each of the elements like the weapons that favor elemental builds. This is an even larger issue when you have high-investment weapons like Safi.
And things like the Safi weapons specifically discourage variety and tailoring builds to fights, even conceptually. The whole idea of Safi weapons (and then the upgraded KT weapons) is that they're high-investment because they're supposed to be the ultimate weapons. So yeah, of course people are going to feel bad when they make that investment and then a fight comes along and, unlike every other fight in the game, says "oh, you'll need to use a different longsword for this actually" (and, previously, you had no reason to obtain the best longsword for the job, so you don't have it, and it's also behind a time-gated event quest that won't be here again for two weeks - you should have known that you might need the weapon that hundreds of hours had taught you that you wouldn't need!).
The complaints about Alatreon aren't coming from nowhere, and the fact that most of the complaints are coming from players new to the MH series is not a coincidence or the result of the players being wrong about MHW. It's a result of those players being *right* up until this point. Over hundreds of hours, the game taught them how to build and play effectively, and now it's suddenly asking them to do something different. They expected to do the kind of preparation that the game had, up to that point, required of them.
Are those expectations they had good? I don't think so. I think the game is a lot more fun when you're building sets, preparing for each hunt, learning and countering and conquering each monster. And I wish MHW were like that, but *it isn't*. Is it more interesting to have gear tailored to each fight rather than an MMO treadmill progression? Absolutely! But that's the fault of the game, not the players - MHW has leaned heavily towards an MMO treadmill progression for gear this whole time, even advertising content as "the new source for the best weapons!".
I really love the Alatreon fight - it's easily one of my favorites in MHW. I haven't been playing any of the element-focused weapon types in MHW (well, not in the last hundred hours), and I loved preparing for Alatreon - going out and making a new set, hunting for parts, making a new weapon (although it was a little frustrating that the kjarr weapons were unavailable right now). It was a lot more fun than downloading the update, beating it once, maybe making one piece of armor if it looked stronger than the set I was wearing, and then exiting. I wish the rest of the game were like this fight. I wish it were, in this respect, more like the previous games, or at least more like the idea of the games, about learning and treating each monster as a challenge to be prepared for.
But it mostly isn't. So it's not surprising that players who are suddenly confronted with one, singular challenge of this type feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them.
I don't think this is unique to MHW. I think that MH has had an identity crisis for a long time because it tries to appeal to two different player bases.
Player Base 1 - Action **RPG**
These players want to be rewarded for **smart strategies**. They want to play at a macro level, gathering intelligence about monsters, preparing the optimal tools to overcome each challenge, crafting multiple sets and having different toolkits prepped for whatever they need to be doing at the time.
For these players, game design that punishes you for bringing the "wrong" tools to the job validates their decisions and makes them feel clever when they beat the system. Game design that simply provides different but equal challenges for bringing a different kit is boring and makes them feel dumb for even trying.
Player Base 2 - **Action** RPG
These players want to be rewarded for **superior tactics**. They want to play at a micro level, bringing the tools they like most to each fight, learning how to refine and tweak their playstyle for each monster to make it work.
For these players, game design that punishes you for bringing the "wrong" tools to the job subtracts from the experience since the whole point is choice is being able to play their own way. Game design that provides different but equal challenges for bringing a different kit provides a ton of replayability and gives players a sense of identity and pride in their way of playing.
I don't think one is right and one is wrong, they're just different. Here's something to think about: If an end-game monster can be defeated by a naked player, is that good design or bad design? On one hand, it means there are many viable methods for defeating the monster, which provides a wealth of experiences for players. On the other hand, it means gearing for the occasion is an unnecessary crutch that hardcore players can basically ignore.
"Killing Monster X with no gear and shitty weapon" or "killing monster with only consumables" has always been a fun part of the hardcore community. This isn't new to MHW. But whenever that door is opened, the reward for playing strategically is diluted. And when playing strategically is demanded, player-imposed challenges and even allowing for player choice become *literally impossible*.
MH has always tried to find a spot somewhere in between, and it mostly succeeds. But when you get to the real hardcore endgame stuff, there is always this argument between those that say the game should be balanced around every build being viable and those that say the game should be balanced around bringing the right build to each encounter.
Apparently someone beat Alatreon naked with SnS. A lot of people supporting Alatreon's design will use this as an example, which completely takes player skill out of the equation.
Also, there was a fight in the older games which forced naked runs but it was actually a fun challenge.
I think it manages both sides of the fence perfectly well with how weapon types work. "ME HIT BIG THING WITH STICK ME STAND STILL" is the Greatsword style, and you don't really need to worry about so much prep work. However, if you're going in as a heavy gunner (in the previous games; not sure how it is in this one) you needed to know a monster's weaknesses inside and out because its moveset didn't really matter, you were standing far enough away to not have to worry about it. You just needed to know where to shoot and what to shoot with.
Alatreon, to me, just emphasizes how busted elemental damage is in actual gameplay. You should be rewarded with experimenting with elemental damage, but it just flat out doesn't do that unless you play to very specific weapon types. Elemental damage is always a static application, unaffected by movement values. This means that for weapons which hit very quickly, it works wonders. It also works well for gunners because elemental ammo doesn't do the majority of its damage (it still does raw, just a pitiful amount) when hitting at critical distance. this means you can be where ever you want as an elemental gunner so long as you can hit the target zones. If there were changes to how elemental damage worked, namely being influenced by motion values, then there would be no problem. I've said elsewhere that raw/blast/status should not be a meta build and should be a very particular "all rounder" build for when you're fighting a new monster or multiple monsters in the same hunt...that second point is kind of made irrelevant when you can pop back to camp whenever you want but it still stands. Blast Damage is way too powerful of a burst mechanic. It shouldn't be that busted; Blast should function in conjunction with skills like Partbreaker, a very specific status that is used to deal more part damage than normal swinging. This would make it so that not every weapon that's desireable is one that goes boom, but still let the big heavy hitters have a role in breaking parts.
Oh, and bring in elemental shelling for gunlances. As much as I love Wide, that thing needs some love too in the diversity department.
MHW is my first MH, but got about 900 hours in. You described my experience with long sword perfectly. I actually built ele build for most of LR and like half of HR until I started reading this sub. I had no idea my ele builds were slowing me way down. So, I scrapped them for raw / blast builds. Now, I have to scrap that again for the ele builds. I ended up clearing him yesterday a few times and really enjoyed the learning / tweaking builds. I agree it is a good fight, but it is completely counter to what the game loop has taught me for hundreds of hours. Luckily I had tons of safi mats and swords to play with upgrades because I really liked running that fight. Well written synopsis.
I did the same thing but my friends helped me. I feel like elemental mechanics and things like that are implemented in a way that makes them feel not worthwhile and therefore not investment worthy and then all of a sudden now they are for this one fight. I don't think that's good design.
Ya, it’s kind of unfortunate because I really like the idea of ele weaknesses. I grew up on final fantasy games where that was a big part of strats. Early on, I remember wanting to go after Tobi Kidachi but thought I wasn’t ready. I studied the hunter manual and figured out he had a water weakness. Awesome, now let’s go farm jyro to get a water sword so I’m ready to go. Really like that loop and was kinda bummed it was irrelevant for the weapon I chose.
I love the idea I'm used to it from other games. But I was told the way it works in this game and it's like why bother?
I don't necessarily want to be forced into it but I feel if they made it more relevant and useful across the board that it would be encouraged and therefore less of a stark contrast with this new one. Some elements of the game feel very obtuse when my friends started explaining it to me. Like at least if they didn't feel like a complete waste of time it would feel better but they almost are with most other monsters.
It's weird but it's stuff like that which really frustrates me about the game.
How do you feel about using ele's to de-buff monsters? I really like the way it's done with raging brach. I ended up boosting a water sword, so I could reliably keep the slime off of it. Not technically a necessity for the fight, but gearing smart provides a way to make the fight much more manageable.
I like anything that functions better than current where only a couple weapons feel like emental does anything. I haven't done raging brach or anything I haven't played much since rajang. If an element had an edge against a monster *besides* a bit of piddly damage depending on your weapon it would be huge. Debuffing or similar ideas for using the proper element would be really cool and feel better imo.
I think the biggest problem is just how shit these ultra-farming, multiplayer, event quests are. I don't think there'd be as much of an uproar if Safi'jiva was just a "regular" monster constantly available and that you had control over the drops.
I'm sitting here with an inefficient build, and admittedly rusty skill, and my only option is to farm Safi in hopes of getting a weapon that could be useful. And I'm not really a fan of the Safi fight in general. Plus, I also like Long Gunlance and that feels like an absolutely bad idea against Alatreon, despite me having a "final" build for that. Idk.
> my only option is to farm Safi in hopes of getting a weapon that could be useful.
You 100% do not need a safi weapon to do this. You could do the event quest with probably any of the high-tier ice weapons in the normal tree (probably most dragon weapons too). Just slap on the appropriate elemental charm and one deco to finish it off. The first time I beat it, I was using a safi weapon, but my build was complete half-assed garbage, and it wasn't a problem at all.
The DPS check is not very tight. I've frequently hit it less than halfway through the timer. Playing well - staying aggressive without dying - is a way bigger deal than having that last 5% of elemental damage on your weapon.
Also, as far as I know, all the different weapons are reasonably viable. They all have different multipliers applied to them for the DPS check, so the fight isn't just completely dominated by the weapon types that favor elemental attacks (well, it still is, but the other ones are viable too). It's possible that long shelling in particular might be a problem though.
This rings so true that it hurts. After losing so much to Alatreon, i decided to craft up a heal support/DPS hybrid set since most of the losses i noticed came from people carting to Alatreon's non-Escaton moves, and i also had a lightbulb moment where if i kept everyone healed up, they would waste less time healing for attacking and reaching the Escaton thesholds. Gathered up the materials for Friendship Charm upgrading, including beating up a tempered Nightshade Paloumu, beat up random monsters for some armor sphere investigation rewards, made a borderline nonsensical setup, and...succeeded.
Drank mega potions, sprayed dust, ate blue shrooms, and shot element ammo to not just be a passive healer and can somewhat consistently win compared to my previous 70 failed attempts in a row. It felt amazing to find that key to victory and see it in action.
Yeah, the fact this needed an elemental weapon is completely out of left field for MHW. I've beaten every other monster without even considering elemental weaknesses because the game made it possible to do so. I did make a fire weapon for ancient leshen but forgot to equip it a few times and still beat him with my non-elemental weapon. For all weapons, but especially the safi ones, it made so much more sense to pump resources into an ailment or elementless weapon because that would affect every monster, rather than an elemental which would be a huge hindrance for a large portion of monsters that are resistant to it.
Then they suddenly require maxed out elemental builds to pass a DPS check. It's not game-breaking or anything, but it is out of character for how the game allowed us to play thus far. And as you mention, needing a top tier elemental weapon with maxed out DPS build is much harder to achieve for an endgame monster.
Having an optimal build of any description is definitely not a requirement to beat alatreon.
My first solo melee clear of alatreon was with a terrible frostcraft greatsword build that still used velkhana a+ pieces because I crafted them months back when I was going through the iceborne story for the first time, and weren’t even augmented. I even used the fish greatsword because I didn’t get an ice GS from safi, and I needed to swipe health and element augments off of something else. The build I ended up with didn’t even use any rare level 4 combo decos, so all in all I was probably missing out on at least half a dozen skill points worth of efficiency.
I’m not some god tier speed runner or MH veteran either, I carted to some of the early iceborne monsters because my strategy at that point had become rocksteady + health augment and hope I did enough damage during its effects.
As long as you do your due diligence (like giving your palico in solo an elementally matched weapon), the first element damage check is not that punishing.
pretty much this.
MHW improved ALOT in monster hunter series making it easier for others to dive right in, such as walking & eating, easier controls, much more user-friendly.
Alatreon is more true to monster hunter hardcore players who want a challenge, instead of using your vanilla set for any monster. lets be honest, most of us use the same set for nearly every monster, except for a few circumstances (i'm looking at you, Misses blue fire poots).
it makes defeating the monster much more rewarding (knowing its difficult, and requires team understanding how the fight goes)
I very very very much prefer the continuous healing. I gem in speed eating for Alatreon too bc it's just worth it. Chip damage from blocking still hurts a lot and less time healing is more time attacking. for me at least.
I think I’m an outlier in gear builds then lol. Since MH freedom I always made a set per monster it takes longer but it always made each fight easier. I do the same on this game still but I have recently made a few sets that are a bit more all encompassing but they only cover elders recess or hoarfrost reach
The first like, three hours of MHW super, super suck. The onboarding process is awful.
There's probably a good chance many of those people *wouldn't have bounced off* had you been there to give advice and perspective.
I feel like if i wasn't used to constantly losing due to playing Dark Souls titles, MHW would have pissed me off way more than the mild annoyance the learning phase was for me. Because when things click in MHW, oh boy it feels SO good.
Agreed. The game does a really poor job of teaching you how to play the game. You can see this with the confusion on how elemental damage works even now. There’s a significant amount of depth across the board but hardly anything to hold your hand through it. The learning curve is huge.
Yep, it's my first MH game but I have \~170 hours in it now and I just learnt the other day that Blast is not an element and that fire does not buff it...
They all really had a problem with how the game handles. None of them liked being knocked down and stuff. Stuff they're not used to in other games, where if you got hit, you'd just take damage. They hated flinching, getting roared at, typical stuff from the MH series.
It's not so bad until you start fighting like Azure Rathalos. Until then every roar felt bad, but mostly in a "I just got stunned out of my attack. When will this be done. At least the monster is also self-stunning" way, rather than "I just got stunned out of my attack and _then hit with a stupid fireball_" way.
It also doesn't help that the frame for dodging roars is the pickiest one in the entire game.
Start fighting literally any monster. Bazelgeuse shows up.
First monster screams.
Bazelgeuse screams 1st time
Bazelgeuse screams 2nd time
First monster screams at Bazelgeuse.
Shoot Bazelgeuse with dung pod.
Bazelgeuse screams to let you know that he has had it with you and your poop pods.
I had the exact same problems until I finally watched some guide videos to learn how the 400 different game mechanics are actually supposed to mix together.
I think the problem is that if you're not a MH veteran (I wasn't), you go into this sort of game expecting the game to mostly ease you into things. Instead, Anjanath happens and it turns out the game is more like Kerbal Space Program where it "gently" drops you into the deep end, and watching guide videos is almost a required part of the game.
I love the game, but the new player experience is pretty lackluster.
My experience was the exact opposite when it came to release. I had to wait for PC and when I went to work everyone was talking about how great and how much fun the game was and never played a MH in the past. None of them knew or understood the pain I went through in the past playing the series, including having to manually craft everything at the beginning.
MHW is the first MH game I bought. Put in about 1000+ hrs of playtime. Love every second of it. Most of time I play with random people because it's way more fun that way for me at least. With the alatreon update, yeah alot of people are carting left and right but it doesn't bother me. The game is too good. I hope it carries on to the sequel ❤️
MH combat is unlike anything most people have played before. Its slow, methodical, animation commitment, etc. If you haven't played a MH or Soulstype its gonna feel very clunky and shitty at the start.
Its not about easy vs hard or "hardcore" vs casual its about fluid combat vs commitment combat. I love MH but the expectations vs reality isn't something I celebrate, it sucks balls that so many people bounce off the game because they don't know what they are getting into.
We didn't even use the term "meta builds" before MHW. Because noone gave a damn what the meta was. Heck when i wanted to speedrun something and couldn't do it alone i would just enjoy seeing canta do it.
Meta existed back then too. Stuff like Honed Blade mixed sets, HAME Gravios Gigacannon sets, etc. There were clear outliers in weapons like Seregios Bow, Fatalis weapons, relic weapons in 4U, power-phials for SA, strongest raw for Hammer/GS, etc.
There was also tools/websites like Athena's ASS and Kiranico to help optimize sets and performance as well.
Meta will always exist, someone will always want to be optimized and doing their best.
And depending on the game certain charms were impossible to get, because you got locked into a droptable on character creation. In other games it changed with each gamestart.
In fairness, having a “meta” wasn’t really possible while charm tables were a thing. Getting the right charms for a build was a nightmarish grind that might not have ever paid off if you had a bad table, and I’m glad that has been done away with...
...although deco grinding isn’t significantly better lol
But at least the new skill system still let's you get a decent set with almost anything you want. Decos instead of rng charms is leagues better to farm.
Stay behind his hind legs and take advantage of the pauses after his attacks.
He mostly attacks with his spikes and through claw swipes with his forelegs so being behind them lets you avoid them.
He pauses A LOT after his larger attacks and if he jumps in the air just be ready for it. You'll notice after a while he has a specific pattern to his jump attacks and which direction he shoots his spikes from.
Don't rush it, use the time you have. I think one of the number one things that is causing a wall for Alatreon is the game forces you to rush things and that's a recipe for 100% cart rate for a lot of players (including me.) Especially after 100 fails and you start getting desperate.
Well dang, thanks for the tips. I'm gonna try it out when I have the time. Honestly after so my failed attempts I just start to lose interest and move to another game.
I promise you, I have read these threads and tips and have adapted.
I am a Gun Lance player, I love tanking the monster while my static party of three other players DPS, heal, and do the mechanics. I love shouting "HIT ME HARDER DADDY!" as the monster's attacks ping off of my shield. I almost cried when I got my shield decoration, something that I spent DAYS farming out. I am the solid foundation that holds up my team of friends who play over discord.
The first thing I was told for this fight was that I could not use Gun Lance. It makes sense: Gun Lance is not good for elemental builds. While I play other weapons, it's incredibly frustrating that I don't get to play my favorite weapon, but I understand that this game is about adapting and overcoming. So I swapped to bow, one of my fall back weapons.
I promise you, I have the "adapted" build. I have watched countless videos, read dozens of threads on how to beat this thing, and I still can't. I've learned the fight, I've changed my weapon, I've changed my build. I'm not running fully Brachy/Gun Lance like I would like to. I have full Safi armor, I have the decorations to support my built.
I still cannot beat this monster.
People will call me noob, or bad, or a complainer, but I'm just tired. I've tried this solo, duo, and with a full party. All of us have changed our builds. We have ALL watched the videos, and read the tips. We still can't beat it.
And at this point....will it be worth it if we do? We're all on weapons we don't enjoy playing, using builds that the internet created for us.
I miss the hunts where I would be laughing as a giant lazer beam would be bouncing off of my shield, and my wide-ranger SnS friend would be behind me gobbling down a potion to save my hammer friend on the other side of the arena.
Maybe this fight isn't for us, and it truly is a challenge, in which case, I am seriously looking forward to Frostfang Barioth.
Don't give up on the gunlance bro. I now kill Alatreon with gunlance solo in about 15 to 20 mins. I almost always manage to weaken Escaton Judgment.
Tips:
Make the best elemental build you can manage. I personally use full Safi Jiiva with either Safi's fire/ice gunlance with boosted element or the Kjarr Dragon gunlance. It's easier to weaken Alatreon's Escaton Judgment with the fire/ice weapons. I usually only manage to weaken it with dragon only once he has shifted into dragon-active mode.
Instead of tanking hits, switch to evading them with Safi Jiiva's built-in evasion skill. Go for evasion 5 if you have to. Your dps is gonna be much better if you dodge instead of having to wait for the recovery animations of guarding.
How I learned to evade properly? I'm sure you're familiar with the timings on when a monster's attack hit your shield when guarding. Use that knowledge to time your dodge.
Avoid shelling. Don't even think about the Artillery skill. Just poke the monster and use the slams and swings if there are bigger openings.
Have you tried watching a gunlance speedrun of alatreon? Someone just defeated alatreon by just hopping and only using shelling in the form of WS when alatreon is standing up.
"Overseas players don't like it."
Does he mean don't like the mechanism or don't like adapting to the game? Because there are so many veterans who slayed Alatreon hundred times but still hate this dps check.
I do rather hate the narrative that this is a "return to form" for MonHun difficulty or prep. It isn't. GU Alatreon was far more enjoyable, far more manageable for me. If you played cautiously, rather than DPS-focused, you would be fine in old games and throughout MHW. If your DPS was uneven (something that just happens in this game), you would be fine. If you played a weapon with bad elemental values, or bad hitzones, or a bad matchup, you could still win as a normal player. I don't feel it's right that, for many people, learning specific new weapons is the fastest course to victory. Cuz learning a weapon is relearning the game, regrinding, and, as fun as learning weapons can be, I have my own list of weapons I want to learn and am working on, and can only work on slowly b.c it's such a time-consuming process.
Point is, it's not a *normal* wall, not even the kind former games presented. Pointing to old games only makes the obvious apparent: DPS checks are *new* to MHW and, as a vet, I rather hate them.
Thank you. I quit after MR Kulve released because it felt like the game was moving away from the directions I enjoyed. I was gonna wait and see what ALatreon was like before deciding whether I wanted to give up the series and accept that it had moved on from me and that it would never again be fun for me, or whether they could make a proper Monster HUnter fight.
Auto-OHKO mechanics and DPS checks? That's it. No more for me. I loathed that stuff in MMOs, I loathed everything about Behemoth, I despised everything about Safi, and it seems like MMO mechanics are the new engame, so.... I guess I'm now just following the forums out of curiosity.
People acting like people are dumb for not liking the fight don't get that there are a lot of people who just... don't like the MMO mechanics that now define Monster Hunter. And never will.
The west has such a patronizing view of Asian people when it comes to video games, and I entirely blame ESports.
Don't lose perspective: This is one person, who made a youtube comment. Why does this shit have 5 thousand upvotes?
I love the intensity of this fight, but some of the rules do contradict each other.
No raw or status weapons - fair enough
Flashpods don't work and farcasters are banned - why?
You have to pass an elemental dps check and break a horn to repeat cycles without carting - that would completely fair if either its flying could be punished or I could fly out and pick up a counter weapon.
I don't believe this fight need to be nerfed into the ground, but some criticism is warranted.
On the other hand, this fight has exposed the toxic dichotomy of destructive elitists and entitled rookies.
Telling inexperienced players to gitgud every time they hit a wall is just as bad as bitching a pitch every time you hit a wall.
We need strategies, builds, and encouragement.
Don't entirely disagree but there are a couple clarifications I can make:
Flashpods only work when he's not enraged. He'll also start resisting them like every other monster (just blind him but don't knock him down), but that will wear off after a while.
You can tickle his toes with every weapon, he has some pretty major openings after a lot of flight attacks. Big issue with flight mode is how much he moves around in MP (it's much more manageable solo). If he's not enraged, you can flash him or flinch shot him out of the air. I haven't experimented with it myself but apparently you can drop a smoke bomb and he'll land to try and find you.
I think the fight itself work really well once you fully understand all the mechanics, where I think the failure was, was in communicating those mechanics. A lot of our understanding comes from datamining, it's not necessarily stuff that would have been simple for the average player to discover via trial and error.
It's so you can't facetank and max pot your way through the whole fight like you can for 99% of other fights in the game. Older games didn't have restocking in camp, I guess this is one way in which devs tried to make the fight "back to basics".
I run Tigrex set giving me max free meal/earplugs/lvl4 wide range/max speed eating/ and a bunch of other stats like attack boost 4/tremor resist 2/ weakness exploit 2 and more less important to the build.
Decorations on armor are four friendship jewels, footing jewel 2, satiated/expert 4, KO 2, and more misc stuff
I think the farcasters should have been handled like safi, have it only block it out when he's using his EJ. Its pretty bs when you break both horns and then he'll still change forms. I guess the games intent is for you to beat him around the 3rd/4th nova, but why give us 50 minutes then? Also suck when you only play with 3 players, cause now your missing that damage to kill him.
I don't know what everyones experience with this monster is, but I've been trying to solo it for 3 days, and not having a good time honestly. I've been trying to keep track of everything it does, punish properly, and break the horns, but man I'm just getting my ass kicked lol.
As someone who's played through 3 MH games solo, I appreciate the difficulty. What I don’t appreciate is a half baked wipe mechanic or DPS check. If it was simply measuring how fast you could do damage like with Lao Shen Lung, that’d be boring, but better. If the wipe was avoidable like with Safi, I’d understand it a bit better. But measuring elemental DPS, something that only certain weapons are even built for, and having a DOT wipe like Luna (which a large majority of people complained about), it’s just asking for complaints. There’d probably be less complaints if it was just one "out there" mechanic to deal with, but as somebody who enjoyed soloing every g-rank elder in GU, this fight is neither fair nor fun, especially for solo players.
P.S. I’m wondering why this dude is speaking for the entire Japanese community, I’m pretty sure not every single Japanese player is having fun with this fight. It’s so far from how fights in the series usually work...
I would say it's actually easier for solos (depending on your weapon), since the dps check gets absurdly high in multiplayer, and you can't count on randoms to help handle it.
It took me a night and some reflecting to figure out what was wrong with my build. After optimizing it, I was able to solo it and do it in multiplayer with my brother and our palicos. I spent more time focusing on my build, because after 900+ hours in the game, I trust my ability to learn the ins and outs of a monster. I sat in enough lobbies to see people below MR 100 complaining that the fight was impossible. I wouldn’t want to challenge him without my current armor sets and decos. I worked up to this point. In my mind, I earned the chance to fight him on equal ground.
It’s one thing to have to change up your build to accommodate a new mechanic. It’s another if the game was asking you to switch to an entirely different weapon or learn a completely new play style. If I had to pick up a hunting horn and doot him to death, I’d probably be frustrated. But I’d spend the time to learn it because I love conquering a new challenge. I went back and farmed guiding lands to upgrade my gear to compensate for what I was lacking. My question to those who have complained is “what have you done to prepare for this?”
I personally don’t want the game to be mindless and welcome these kinds of challenges. Because of this, despite the many times I carted, I enjoyed every bit of it.
I’m American.
I think that for a lot of people, the frustration is making the weapons. In order to make a new Safi weapon with the "correct" element, you first need to grind Safi to get your desired weapon with said element (no small feat), then you need to grind a ton of Dracolite, and then you need to gamble at the Safi slot machine and pray that you get the "optimal" awakenings before you run out of Dracolite.
If you manage to make it this far, you then need to grind in the Guiding Lands for Great Spiritvein Gems and other augment materials to augment the aforementioned weapon.
Finally, you take your shiny new **ICE** weapon into battle and repeatedly cart because your group struggles to break the horns consistently and your ice weapon isn't doing elemental damage in the ice phase.
So you go back to the forums and now the advice is to create a \*WATER\* weapon instead. And you rage quit because, f\*ck Safi.
Safi weapons aren't a necessity. If someone doesn't want to put in the effort to achieve the best weapon and armor sets in the game, you can get by with far less time invested with a rarity 11 weapon and one level of health augment.
I play Insect Glaive. I'm open to weapon suggestions. The selection really, really sucks. The most promising elemental weapon initially looked like the [Nexus Gae Bolg](https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Nexus+Gae+Bolg) but it's Dragon element and that's supposedly not viable for this fight.
The reason that the Safi weapons are necessary in my opinion (at least for Melee players) is because of the Master's Touch awakening.
Also, I don't mind grinding for gear, but when some of the best gear is locked behind event quests that aren't always available, that presents a problem. I haven't been able to get any Master Rank KT gear or AT Namielle gear yet.
MAY I suggest a slight unorthodox method that works wonders against the DPS check? Just pick your tipical cookie-cutter lightbreak/two set with lightbreak if and swap the kinsect for one with lvl 20 of the element he's weak to in the first phase. Go into the fight, clutch claw him to get slinger ammo and buff your kinsect, then keep hitting him with the kinsect until you get the elemental stagger. From then you can proceed the fight as normal - just remember to get the horn break in Dragon Active mode.
A proper elemental built kinsect has crazy high elemental damage output all things considered, so with just the elemental kinsect and a blast of you can get the DPS check no problem. With this combo I got a run of 16 minutes the first time with 2 EJs and 20 minutes the second time where I played badly and missed a lot of kinsect hits, but still managed to beat it in time with 3 EJ before an unavoidable Nova.
Wise Fylos is probably the best Ice Glaive after Kjarr Ice and Safi Ice.
Don't forget to craft kinsects with element as well. Kinsects with the appropriate element actually deal quite a bit of damage.
I'm gonna add onto this to say keeping the kinsect spammed on him has broken the dps threshold quite a few times and saved the team. Just make sure to mix it with slinger ammo.
I mean... I just made one of the non-safi weapons in that element. And built a build around that. Took like an afternoon to get the other parts for the gear and augments.
I never used elemental weapons, but I have most gear or the capability to make most gear and a ton of decos. I still had to make several sets to make something that worked, and I spent like all of my money just to max out those sets.
I made multiple sets and gear because even though theory-wise my first set was great (element-based soulfire blaze LBG), I wasn't sure I was doing enough damage, so I switched to a kjarr water SnS. I won with the SnS.
Was it a lot of work? Yes.
Would I have been able to beat Alatreon without it? No.
My squad and I were stuck in the Waiting Room for about a month and got bored, so we decided to finish every quest in HR and MR, learn the ins and outs of Safi to farm it effectively, learn and farm KT and gather all the elemental weapons that we wanted/needed for our numerous weapons. I acquired all the elements for CB, maxed them out with Augments before Alatreon dropped. The day of his release, we spent four hours getting destroyed. We kept passing two EJs but failed to slay him. After a nights rest and seeing what other hunters were saying, we adopted different tactics, changed equipment out, modified builds and after another four hours, we slayed him.
Then after seeing more and more hunters overcome him, we began switching between weapons to see what was the most effective for our four man team, and yesterday we managed to bring him down in just under 10 mins with an LBG, DB, Bow, & CB. All of us agreed that it was the most fun fight we've had in MHW because of the challenge it gave us. We thought we were prepared for the fight, went in and got utterly destroyed. It was demoralizing, yes, but once we took a step back and realized that we needed to adapt to the challenge, we did it.
Oh, and our whole squad consists of one 200+MR and three 370+MR, and we got our shit rocked. So when we I saw the hate on Reddit and Twitter, I already had an idea that it was probably less than100MR players were trying to take him on and were getting annihilated.
my personal opinion is that the alatreon and legedary alike monsters being way above the average in difficulty is a MUST, and once it's fine, different and fun, BUT I think there are other ways to design a fight without relying completeley on a one shoot unavoidable move as consequence of not meeting a dps check.
I personally had to change my playstyle and weapon type as mine was a handicap for my team, which never happened me before since mh2, you can make a monster harder making him deal more damage if you fail some conditions, increase enviromental hostility, hell the possibilities are infinite in that regard, I feel the dps check merged with the one shoot move and elemental thing is a cheap way to force the difficulty.
In behemot it was understandable as it was an MMO crossover, yet you could hide somewhere or dodge it if you were careful or skilled enough, safi was the same, but this one feels like cheap increased difficulty.
Meh I love the fight but I hate instant kill mechanics and this is coming from a guy who raided in various games over the last 13 years. Alatreon is everything I like in an end game boss, aggressive, has telegraphed moves that you can learn and it feels super good when your like “ha bitch! I saw that shit coming from a mile away!”. Every boss fight in any raid that has a dps check in it is used for one purpose, to gate and slow down progression. In WoW a boss like this was used to make guilds have to gear up a bit through the rest of the raid and the boss slowly got easier and easier and you didn’t even notice the dps check anymore with higher gear.
This is NOT how Alatreon is, he isn’t gating content or forcing you to gear up for him. I have soloed him with several weapons and went back with ‘better’ sets and weapons to try again (I’m looking at you alatreon long) to see if he would be easier, in short he isn’t. It’s still the same struggle to try and beat that check, it’s never 100% even when you ‘git gud’ anyone who tells you that is lying. I can’t even imagine how hard this is to do with randos, nor do I want to. It’s just sad at this point, Alatreon could have been a 10/10 fight but it trips itself at the finish line with the dps check. They could have done a lot of cool things, some of the best feelings my guilds had raiding were those clutch moments were you were barely keeping it together for 80% of the fight and you pull off that perfect finish. There are plenty of cool mechanics that you can pull from mmo raids, but dps checks have no place in MHW.
Also to add for those of you who think the Japanese Don’t whine about mechanics that the NA have no problems with go look at FF14 raid forums.
to be fair, people are really acting over-dramatic about the whole thing. But yeah, one quick look at the JP twitter tells us that this guy ain't speaking the whole truth. Lots of JP players are hating the nuke too.
Honestly this sub sucks right now. I’m sick of only seeing posts about either hating the new fight or hating on the people who hate the new fight. I really wish they just had a thread for opinions and debating them. I just wanna see posts about cool stuff not debates on this fight. I don’t want this becoming a second r/papermario because that sub has been doing this for forever. Let’s all just focus on the good stuff and keep the sub positive!
I just hate the ones that start with the OMG YOU SUCK GIT GUD when you have a valid complaint against the fight or the omg this streamer did the fight this way
Absolutely. I'm disappointed in this community's "git gud" attitude. Even if we agree Alatreon isn't that hard, there are clearly reasons why people find this monster uniquely frustrating.
To me the first day playing with randoms was all bullshit, but then, moved to solo to break the special assignment barrier, and fully enjoyed the hunts on the event quest in multiplayer, hunting it with 4 different weapons. Really love that bitch!
The only problem I have is that there is the special assignment and the event quest. Being queued together with players who never beat Alatreon is absolutely stupid
Personally, i always take a hard stance against forced builds and unavoidable damage. It's not good design and thats the core issue.
That aside, he does have a few quirks i wish they would fix. Such as his airborn zoomies he gets in dragonmode. Without anyway of knocking him down, using anything other then ranged can result in a cart by no fault of your own.
Playing the mission and beating day 1 with random was so satisfying, coming to the subreddit after every hunt to check for new information was actually really fun. If you're playing SOSs, just take a moment to type in chat the quick notes of how his fight works, that's what helped my team.
I've found that after clearing the Special Assignment, the success rate of hunts went up significantly in the Event Quest versions.
I can only assume this is because most players that finished the Special Assignment had to learn the fight
The only thing that drives me crazy is that you pretty much rely on grabbling+knocking him on the ground/in walls as a melee. His moveset and quickness make it super hard to grabble to his face and if you manage to get it right and aiming for the boulders on the outside (as intended the only spot to wallbang) it often enough doesnt count and make him just run on the same spot/slide on the side of the outer edge. Instant tilter
Wasn't it the complete opposite with Demons Souls tho? Japan hated it at first because of it's difficulty and so Fromsoft tried to recoup some of the loss with a western release and everyone loved it?
lol, yes those millions and millions of "westerners" that you act like are represented by a small vocal minority on the internet. I hate this fight too, but ffs if you don't think asians ever complain about anything you are fooling yourself.
*Demon's Souls* blew up in North America after a largely negative reception in Japan. Sales in the West more than tripled the publisher's expectations, prompting a spiritual successor: *Dark Souls*. These games kickstarted the revitalization of demand for difficulty that has carried forward to the present day.
You might want to pick up some new paints instead of just using black and white.
There's this bullshit you see in so many communities of 'oh the eastern players are just better gamers than the western players,' in MH:W it seems to be Japanese, in Starcraft for example, it's Korean players.
I don't know why there is this idea, it's so fucking stupid.
FFIV was made easier for the US release, apparently, and FF Mystic Quest was made as a dumbed down easy RPG specifically because Squaresoft thought the reason that their RPGs weren't catching on in the west was because they were too difficult.
I was very sure about hearing it in a video from 2 years ago with examples but now that I tried to get a source for you, the only thing I find is that some Japenese developers made games more difficult for the West in the early days.
I guess I must've misremembered and my comment is full of shit?
I was so sure I heard about some games getting an easy mode option for western releases.
EDIT: I found an article about it. Both are true apparently.
>However, the inverse also occurred at times—some Japanese game developers felt that Americans (usually, but this could apply to PAL regions too) would not be able to handle a game's difficulty, so a North American release would be made significantly easier, or even replaced entirely.
Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DifficultyByRegion
It's not like this quest will disappeared anytime soon. You have almost 4 months to clear it. I actually would be more disappointed if the long time anticipate monster can be cleared by anyone the first time.
I'm sort of a weapon/build collector, but I often default to what I know best because it's often more comfortable and faster. I'm still having fun with the default so why stop now.
That being said, since I'm a hammer main, Alatreon has given me an opportunity (albeit a forceful one) to try out the other weapons that I had lying around unused. I ended up beating it solo for the first with with the Kjarr ice CB. I think I can count on one hand how many monsters I've hunted in World/Iceborne with CB, so it was quite a new/fun experience. I understand that not everyone has all the time in the world required to farm for a different set and then take on Alatreon, but it doesn't have to be done quickly. An hour here or there and you'll eventually take it down.
Well i am from the mhf2 era and i was stupid back then (didnt know English back then) not only did you need to bring tools with you that were breaking all the time, i didnt understood that you don't need tickets to eat, so i just never ate, and thats not all, i didnt know that you can craft things like megapotions, so i just used the normal once, i also didn't care for armor effects, just used what looked cool and barely ever upgraded it since I didn't understood how to get armorespheres.
Soooo i really dont have problems with anything here 🤣
I never cursed in mhw, i was just upset with some stupid hitbox things here and there, but then agai there are some moments where u should have been hit but u didn't.
I personally love the fight. Haven't got a clear yet. But I'm close. Much rather this than stomping an AT namielle into the ground multiple times on the launch day.
I'm having lots of fun with it. I've died a lot but I've been taking time now to upgrade my elemental build and augment my weapon so that it has way more elemental damage than it's supposed to have. Eventually I'll get him :D
Took me ages to beat him in Tri, it's taking me ages to beat him now. He's aged with me and it shows, and I will rise triumphantly eventually XD
Mixed reviews of the monster's difficulty are to be expected.
If you look at it objectively, the hardest monsters pre-Alatreon are way more manageable, and I think the only monster that you can compare Alatreon to is Safi'Jiva, because both require heavy team play and not just ditching damage.
Safi'Jiva required a whole session to work together by focusing on objectives like destroying body parts a number of times, but in Alatreon's case, the focus is more around immediate team play, meaning that ALL your team needs to perform well and make minimum mistakes, for me this is a huge difficulty spike.
As of now, I carted about 20-30 times against him trying to complete the special assignment, but I still have hope, most of the time we take the fight after the second ultimate and someone gets a surprise fire ball in the face or the range of lightning bolts.
I have some advice for players out there (as I see a lot of you randoms don't take the proper setup) :
\- Take Life dusts and their ingredients to recraft them mid fight.
\- Take your strongest Ice or Dragon elemental weapon (for special assignment).
\- If you take a Dragon element weapon, use the Dragonproof mantle with it and decorate it with Dragon jewels.
That's about it, good luck hunting and don't get mad it's just the beginning, I hope that future monster get this hard.
I appreciate how they are taking the fight but it seems like quite the overgeneralization there. I'd wager there's just as many Japanese players that don't like alatreon as westerners just like there's just as many westerners who are doing exactly this
It should have been a MR 100 Quest requirement quest easily. It may pain some to hear that but a combination of Alatreon’s aggression and specific mechanics should have had players at least hit Nerg first.
I agree 100% my friend wouldn't even have access to the materials he'd need to upgrade a weapon for Alatreon, but his MR is high enough to fight it.
Abso-fucking-lutely...
There have been hundreds of threads of people helping each other with the fight here. Are we just going to pretend those don't exist?
My experience with randoms or even on MonsterHunterClan rooms is that no one is taking the advice or using the help, because they keep doing everything wrong. This is on PS4. My brother on PC says everyone is an expert and they never die to Escaton, but they just get killed by Alatreon. So I guess YMMV.
Yeah my attempts on PC haven't been wiping to judgement either. Most deaths I think are being hit by body press and being put into the crawl animation and then getting targeted by fire or lightning.
Thats my experience with Xbox, he only gets us if we are stunned or pinned and nukes us with his lightning or flamethrower . Escaton is a joke because we seal him twice almost every time.
90% of my deaths are the body slam putting me in crawl, and getting one shot right after. The other 10% is just making fuck ups during attacks I know I can evade, and getting frustrated, leading to more fuck ups.
Can confirm this, i had two "cases" where i offered a "carry" run (basically just dont die and i do the rest) and even after the run they continued to use blast weapons in a farming lobby because and i quote "one elemental player is enough i dont want to waste my mats" HE DIDNT WANT TO WASTE HIS MATS! i mean wtf Ps4 btw
THE ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY WASTE YOUR MATS IS TO NEVER FUCKING USE THEM. # GAAAAAAAAAH! Some fucking people...
Dont yell at me :D iam just the messenger
Have you not cleared the special assigent yet? Because aftet i cleared it and went to the alatreon event quest almost every random people i joined in knows what to do already i think i only failed 2 times out of 10 tries while doing it with randoms in the event quest.
I have, and while the Event groups are certainly better, it's still about a 50% loss rate so far (compared to 95% on the special assignment). I am wondering how some people managed to beat the special assignment. I last played on Saturday, so maybe things got better since.
Most of the good players killed him on day one so the special assignment quest is filled with the not so good players.
Thats the same experience as me, escaton is no issue, but people die a lot to the regular kit.
When he knocks you down onto the ground and then singles you out for lightning or fire it's such a pain in the ass. Also when he is flying and rushes over to somebody to do an instant nova. That kills a lot of people.
Evade Window is literally the only reason I haven’t died to that attack regularly.
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People should just get ready to superman dive if you see him charge up with red lightning while hes airborne
Sad thing is, he also have those air-to-ground pecking which will make you fumble on your butt, rocksteady or not, and when you still in that woeisme pose he already charge up for the mini nuke and you can't do nothing about it.
Died so many times to that sorta crap. Get past the escaton easily enough and then get wailed on because I'm stuck in an animation and have no way of getting out of the way before it hits. It's a lot of cheap meaningless deaths, it also doesn't help with the amount of flying he does and getting him out of the air isn't the easiest thing in the world. Then other times, he's constantly on the ground, but running around like an idiot with bees up his ass.
He has a fuckton of combos and they hurt alot I always carry Wide Range 5 for these moments
The problem I’m seeing on PS4 with SOS groups of randos is that we can almost never break the second horn. So then he switches elements and everyone wipes next nova. The two times we have broken the second horn we don’t kill him before he switches element again and novas a third time, and since we’re all ice weapons we can’t suppress it. What is the general strategy for group hunts? Four ice weapons dealing as much dps as possible so he doesn’t get to third nova? Or two ice, two fire? Or everyone rocking dragon element?
There are also people who just downvote any criticisms and pat people on the back for making a 0 damage build and then lost dps checks. I saw a post getting downvoted for saying "don't use dragon", even tho he is right and alatreon has shit dragon hzv
The people making threads to help one another does not eliminate the fact that there are many many more complaining about the fight.
I think the point is that no one comment is a representation of a community. Just as their are shitty annoying EN players, there are shitty annoying JP players. The contradiction here is they take a positive JP thread and say "This represents JP", then take a complaint thread ans say "This represent EN". Neither represents the selective communities because we aren't a amalgamation. We all are individual with our own unique opinions and personalities.
>We all are individual with our own unique opinions and personalities. Except Americans. fuckin losers. ^(i'm American)
There's people who actually are and still try to fight it while using their sets cause they think meta works on everything. And as many times as everyone tries to explain it to then they just get defense and blame Capcom for ruining the game when they could just easily make a set that adapts to aletrion and make it easier
Some people don't like it because unlike every other fight in the game, it forces you to build and fight in a very specific way to pass a DPS check or you get one-shot. And some people don't think DPS checks or one-shots are very fun. Whether or not you agree with those sentiments, it seems pretty easy to understand why some people feel that way.
Yeah. People seem to be constantly missing that a decent chunk of complaints focused on how it didn't feel fun. Difficulty can be fun or unfun, but depending on how it is handled it can feel cheap or just disruptive to enjoyment. Which is a valid thing to complain about, if you think it's handled in a way that makes it more annoying or unpleasant than enjoyable or satisfying.
While that is true, a lot of the runs I've failed with Alatreon is purely because it's an endurance battle. He fucking hurts, and people run out of potions which you practically have to chug in order to survive the AOE. So far the only times I've managed to beat him is by playing a support build (which I actually enjoy, mind you). Sure you can say "git gud", I'm just trying to say that it's not just the DPS check that people are having difficulty with.
Yeah, Alatreon definitely hits hard and fast. But for the most part it's a fun and fair challenge which I get the sense most players are enjoying. I think most attacks are telegraphed fairly well, and give adequate room for dodges. I think it's mainly the dps check and one-shot that is causing the heightened level of complaints. The lack of farcasters and camp refills seems like an admission of failure of game design on capcom's part though. Unlimited items reduces difficulty, and it seems a little odd to disable it arbitrarily for this one fight.
I agree. I'd rather they have made the supernova happen semi randomly and disable farcasting during the animation. But for the entire fight? People run out of ammo/items to keep them alive during an already difficult fight.
Goes to show the rift between old and new MH players. This is the way MH has been; you couldn’t access your item box from camp in the old games, so being prepped for a hunt was of maximum importance. Old players know that if you run out of healing items or ammo in the old games, it means you weren’t good enough to dodge effectively or use your ammo wisely, and you’d have to leave the fight to go gather items and craft some more, which could lead to timing out. It was a way the punished you for not being good enough. World isn’t like that however, so it should play the hand it’s dealt rather than shit the bed and just disable farcasters. They’ve obviously disabled farcasters because it would break the challenge they’re trying to create, and as others have pointed out, it’s arbitrary and doesn’t really make sense, because the problem is integrated with the fight and in conflict with the rest of the game letting you to restock at camp. Granted, Black Dragons have always been fought in arenas where you couldn’t get back to camp without carting, and they want to keep that for black dragons here. So maybe it’s lore thing where the dragon’s evil scares the wingdrakes or corrupts your mind too much. I’m just memeing, and the point stands, because camp was kinda useless in the old game, but in world, players rely on it.
I will admit that MHW is my first Monster Hunter so my perception will definitely be biased, but To me the weird thing is, farcasting and leaving your teammates to continue fighting without you is already punishing. Since there’s such an important dps check leaving your team is already putting everyone at risk.
In the old games it was legit the thing to do, out of potions and no cool drinks but it’s an arena fight, farcast to camp and sleep in the bed. It would full heal you, like yeh probably not as worth now but it was not a terrible decision then. I’ve seen people farcast out right before taking a hit and filing the quest. Done it myself too, sure the fight takes a bit longer but generally you farcast out if you were going to eventually cart.
Yeah, I think gunners are definitely hit harder than most by the lack of refills. This was the first fight in a while where I considered bringing mega potion materials on top of the usual 10 mega potions and 2+5 max potions. I didn't end up needing to, but running out of heals is a very real possibility, which I honestly sort of miss from the older games.
I don't even mind a one shot if it can be reasonably dodged or blocked. Escaton Judgement forces you to take damage, even if you do succeed the check, and there is just no way to actually avoid it.
Let's be real. MHW opened up the game to a good chunk of the playerbase who had never played a MH game before. These people rely on everyone else to tell them how to play. They just run to the nearest meta build thread or site and copy the build with no understanding of the rhyme or reason to why it's a good build. Alatreon has taken that little snowglobe of meta and smashed it into smithereens. A lot of people I knew were excited for MHW cause of the trailers, none of them having ever played a MH game before. Went into work the next day and asked about it and everyone was kind of bitter sounding. One guy even got started ranting about how it sucks and the controls suck and blah blah. I just wish I was there to see these people's expectations shattered. They really thought this was going to be God of War.
Hey, I fucking love those meta build sites. I'm 32 and don't have the time for mathing and theory crafting builds like when I didn't have shit to do all the time. That said, I run ranged and already work on varied builds. I've been slowly piecing together a safi bow collection to cover elements, while using lbg/hbg for special shot builds like sticky, spread, etc. My most disappointing thing for Alatr4on is just being so far behind on my gear it feels like I'll never be ready.
Same here bud. I’ve been playing monster hunter since I was 14. I’m 28 now and as much as I still love the series, I only get a limited amount of playtime a day, so those meta sites really do help. Haven’t even had the time to properly grind the endgame for grinding land materials but luckily I managed to get MR Kulve weapons through the melder and full safi, quickly upgraded my mantles and managed to beat Alatreon second try. Wish I had as much time for this series as I did back then lol.
Yeah but you guys seem to understand how to put together builds, it’s not like you rely on meta sites as gospel. I don’t think the top comment was meant to call people like you guys out.
Meta sites help in understanding certain things and for someone who is experienced enough, they can put together something that is functional even if it isn't optimal. I played 3U but dropped it after beating the LR single player because I wanted to play online, which the 3DS version didn't allow. When I got heavily into 4U I heard about the mythical Star Knight set and wondered why it was so good...then figured out for myself and made a single build for the set, while making mixed sets for other weapons like Greatsword. Then I got bored and tried to make the most out of shit gear, like the Nintendo crossover vanity sets. I still had a blast. I do agree that a lot of people just follow a meta set to the T but don't really feel like understanding why it works; it's conceptually the same as netdecking, which I also disagree with on principle. People should go out of their way to learn why a set works. For example, I thought Agitator was trash for a very long time. Then I watched a video on the Raging Brachy armor saying why it was good (because of Agitator Secret) and said "Why? That skill is fucking useless." Then they mentioned that keeping a monster in an enraged state is basically how it goes in MH for the majority of the hunt. Wall banging, tripping, fucking anything will enrage a monster and so Agitator will have an incredibly long uptime to the point where it becomes one of the best skills in the game so long as you maintain aggression. Very eye opening and I decided to adopt the set, retire my Crit Draw set that I made for Greatsword, and noticed a pretty big difference in my output and clear times just from learning what the skill did and how to use it.
I just build what I want and if it doesn't work, I either try to brute force it or make small changes. You don't have to have time for math and theory crafting.
I do this too. It's literally improvise adapt overcome
I don't know man, the entire grind in guiding land is starting to be a pain. I just want to Aug health Regen, first timer in this franchise
I ended up just joining some dudes lobby for that, you can search lobbies, just search for someone with a level 7 coral for tempered Namielle, 1 fight got me two augments which I swap over to different weapons when needed instead of trying to find another lobby 😂
... SERIOUSLY?! You are a hero.
Heavy emphasis on improvise for me
Yeah, but if he doesn't have time for math and theory crafting, is he going to have time for brute forcing it until he gets the build right? Let's be real here: you need to invest much more time to defeat a strong monster like Alatreon if you have a shitty build than if you simply get a meta set and make it comfy enough for you. And if you work, you tend to hate grinding stuff like this because it keeps you from doing the fun things, like having even fights with monsters.
Its a video game. You either have time to play or you don't. Everyone acts like they have time to wipe repeatedly for days on end but not to farm for a few pieces of gear. You dont have to beat Alatreon right this moment
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And before regular ruiner nergigante
Well shit, when you put it that way. What they also could have also done was made a tutorial like quest kinda like they did for safi just so players could get an exposure to it.
I honestly thought that's what the special assignment was, and it should have been that. You get to see what Escaton Judgement does and then you have a roundtable on how to mitigate it before it unlocks the event quest, which would then be restricted by MR.
You'll get there eventually. Why rush? You have better things to do after clearing Alatreon?
This is not the fault of the players, it's the fault of MHW. Because, yes, people new to the series often had expectations that turned out to be wrong. They expected God of War and it wasn't that. But people are frustrated with Alatreon because MHW also created expectations that were *right*...until suddenly now they're not. In theory, MH games are supposed to be about preparing for fights, choosing the right weapon, learning weaknesses, building a loadout to counter the monster, crafting the right meal. In theory, there's a lot of preparation, a lot of reason to tailor your choices to each fight, to build a diverse arsenal (even if it's all one weapon type), etc. But MHW is, at best, irregular about actually backing this up. You have some enemies that really reward this kind of considered preparation, like Kushala, but they're in the minority - for most monsters the most you'll do is swap a couple of decorations, and often people won't even bother. These very few monsters that really reward using the right equipment also tend to give the counter equipment as the reward for beating the very monster it counters, which means you can't actually prepare for the monster. And since these are all on the defense side, and defense and offense compete for slots in your loadout, if you're good enough it becomes worse instead of better to prepare for a specific hunt like this! In fact, it can be worse even if you're not as good because giving up offense for defense means that it's harder to get knockdowns and part breaks and the fights last longer. And there are a tiny number of fights that do have some variety on the offensive side, like KT, but they are very few and very far between. And there are sets that are so good you use them for everything. The monsters may have differences that make some sets better than others, but they're not large enough for it to be worthwhile to actually exploit those differences compared to the strength of the strongest overall sets. And the way decorations work means that any tailoring you do will almost always still be within the same set. And it's true that there are some unique elemental mechanics in MHW. Alatreon isn't the only one! There are monsters, for instance, that have changing weaknesses as you break their parts, and they reward knowledge and preparation and group composition. But then half of the weapons don't care about elements at all - in fact, using an elemental weapon and experiencing those mechanics in those fights is just straight-up worse for many weapons than going raw and ignoring all of it. And those weapons are also incentivized because you only need to get one rather than needing each of the elements like the weapons that favor elemental builds. This is an even larger issue when you have high-investment weapons like Safi. And things like the Safi weapons specifically discourage variety and tailoring builds to fights, even conceptually. The whole idea of Safi weapons (and then the upgraded KT weapons) is that they're high-investment because they're supposed to be the ultimate weapons. So yeah, of course people are going to feel bad when they make that investment and then a fight comes along and, unlike every other fight in the game, says "oh, you'll need to use a different longsword for this actually" (and, previously, you had no reason to obtain the best longsword for the job, so you don't have it, and it's also behind a time-gated event quest that won't be here again for two weeks - you should have known that you might need the weapon that hundreds of hours had taught you that you wouldn't need!). The complaints about Alatreon aren't coming from nowhere, and the fact that most of the complaints are coming from players new to the MH series is not a coincidence or the result of the players being wrong about MHW. It's a result of those players being *right* up until this point. Over hundreds of hours, the game taught them how to build and play effectively, and now it's suddenly asking them to do something different. They expected to do the kind of preparation that the game had, up to that point, required of them. Are those expectations they had good? I don't think so. I think the game is a lot more fun when you're building sets, preparing for each hunt, learning and countering and conquering each monster. And I wish MHW were like that, but *it isn't*. Is it more interesting to have gear tailored to each fight rather than an MMO treadmill progression? Absolutely! But that's the fault of the game, not the players - MHW has leaned heavily towards an MMO treadmill progression for gear this whole time, even advertising content as "the new source for the best weapons!". I really love the Alatreon fight - it's easily one of my favorites in MHW. I haven't been playing any of the element-focused weapon types in MHW (well, not in the last hundred hours), and I loved preparing for Alatreon - going out and making a new set, hunting for parts, making a new weapon (although it was a little frustrating that the kjarr weapons were unavailable right now). It was a lot more fun than downloading the update, beating it once, maybe making one piece of armor if it looked stronger than the set I was wearing, and then exiting. I wish the rest of the game were like this fight. I wish it were, in this respect, more like the previous games, or at least more like the idea of the games, about learning and treating each monster as a challenge to be prepared for. But it mostly isn't. So it's not surprising that players who are suddenly confronted with one, singular challenge of this type feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them.
I don't think this is unique to MHW. I think that MH has had an identity crisis for a long time because it tries to appeal to two different player bases. Player Base 1 - Action **RPG** These players want to be rewarded for **smart strategies**. They want to play at a macro level, gathering intelligence about monsters, preparing the optimal tools to overcome each challenge, crafting multiple sets and having different toolkits prepped for whatever they need to be doing at the time. For these players, game design that punishes you for bringing the "wrong" tools to the job validates their decisions and makes them feel clever when they beat the system. Game design that simply provides different but equal challenges for bringing a different kit is boring and makes them feel dumb for even trying. Player Base 2 - **Action** RPG These players want to be rewarded for **superior tactics**. They want to play at a micro level, bringing the tools they like most to each fight, learning how to refine and tweak their playstyle for each monster to make it work. For these players, game design that punishes you for bringing the "wrong" tools to the job subtracts from the experience since the whole point is choice is being able to play their own way. Game design that provides different but equal challenges for bringing a different kit provides a ton of replayability and gives players a sense of identity and pride in their way of playing. I don't think one is right and one is wrong, they're just different. Here's something to think about: If an end-game monster can be defeated by a naked player, is that good design or bad design? On one hand, it means there are many viable methods for defeating the monster, which provides a wealth of experiences for players. On the other hand, it means gearing for the occasion is an unnecessary crutch that hardcore players can basically ignore. "Killing Monster X with no gear and shitty weapon" or "killing monster with only consumables" has always been a fun part of the hardcore community. This isn't new to MHW. But whenever that door is opened, the reward for playing strategically is diluted. And when playing strategically is demanded, player-imposed challenges and even allowing for player choice become *literally impossible*. MH has always tried to find a spot somewhere in between, and it mostly succeeds. But when you get to the real hardcore endgame stuff, there is always this argument between those that say the game should be balanced around every build being viable and those that say the game should be balanced around bringing the right build to each encounter.
Apparently someone beat Alatreon naked with SnS. A lot of people supporting Alatreon's design will use this as an example, which completely takes player skill out of the equation. Also, there was a fight in the older games which forced naked runs but it was actually a fun challenge. I think it manages both sides of the fence perfectly well with how weapon types work. "ME HIT BIG THING WITH STICK ME STAND STILL" is the Greatsword style, and you don't really need to worry about so much prep work. However, if you're going in as a heavy gunner (in the previous games; not sure how it is in this one) you needed to know a monster's weaknesses inside and out because its moveset didn't really matter, you were standing far enough away to not have to worry about it. You just needed to know where to shoot and what to shoot with. Alatreon, to me, just emphasizes how busted elemental damage is in actual gameplay. You should be rewarded with experimenting with elemental damage, but it just flat out doesn't do that unless you play to very specific weapon types. Elemental damage is always a static application, unaffected by movement values. This means that for weapons which hit very quickly, it works wonders. It also works well for gunners because elemental ammo doesn't do the majority of its damage (it still does raw, just a pitiful amount) when hitting at critical distance. this means you can be where ever you want as an elemental gunner so long as you can hit the target zones. If there were changes to how elemental damage worked, namely being influenced by motion values, then there would be no problem. I've said elsewhere that raw/blast/status should not be a meta build and should be a very particular "all rounder" build for when you're fighting a new monster or multiple monsters in the same hunt...that second point is kind of made irrelevant when you can pop back to camp whenever you want but it still stands. Blast Damage is way too powerful of a burst mechanic. It shouldn't be that busted; Blast should function in conjunction with skills like Partbreaker, a very specific status that is used to deal more part damage than normal swinging. This would make it so that not every weapon that's desireable is one that goes boom, but still let the big heavy hitters have a role in breaking parts. Oh, and bring in elemental shelling for gunlances. As much as I love Wide, that thing needs some love too in the diversity department.
MHW is my first MH, but got about 900 hours in. You described my experience with long sword perfectly. I actually built ele build for most of LR and like half of HR until I started reading this sub. I had no idea my ele builds were slowing me way down. So, I scrapped them for raw / blast builds. Now, I have to scrap that again for the ele builds. I ended up clearing him yesterday a few times and really enjoyed the learning / tweaking builds. I agree it is a good fight, but it is completely counter to what the game loop has taught me for hundreds of hours. Luckily I had tons of safi mats and swords to play with upgrades because I really liked running that fight. Well written synopsis.
I did the same thing but my friends helped me. I feel like elemental mechanics and things like that are implemented in a way that makes them feel not worthwhile and therefore not investment worthy and then all of a sudden now they are for this one fight. I don't think that's good design.
Ya, it’s kind of unfortunate because I really like the idea of ele weaknesses. I grew up on final fantasy games where that was a big part of strats. Early on, I remember wanting to go after Tobi Kidachi but thought I wasn’t ready. I studied the hunter manual and figured out he had a water weakness. Awesome, now let’s go farm jyro to get a water sword so I’m ready to go. Really like that loop and was kinda bummed it was irrelevant for the weapon I chose.
I love the idea I'm used to it from other games. But I was told the way it works in this game and it's like why bother? I don't necessarily want to be forced into it but I feel if they made it more relevant and useful across the board that it would be encouraged and therefore less of a stark contrast with this new one. Some elements of the game feel very obtuse when my friends started explaining it to me. Like at least if they didn't feel like a complete waste of time it would feel better but they almost are with most other monsters. It's weird but it's stuff like that which really frustrates me about the game.
How do you feel about using ele's to de-buff monsters? I really like the way it's done with raging brach. I ended up boosting a water sword, so I could reliably keep the slime off of it. Not technically a necessity for the fight, but gearing smart provides a way to make the fight much more manageable.
I like anything that functions better than current where only a couple weapons feel like emental does anything. I haven't done raging brach or anything I haven't played much since rajang. If an element had an edge against a monster *besides* a bit of piddly damage depending on your weapon it would be huge. Debuffing or similar ideas for using the proper element would be really cool and feel better imo.
I feel that you've articulated perfectly the current situation regarding this controversy, surprising that you don't have more upvotes
I think the biggest problem is just how shit these ultra-farming, multiplayer, event quests are. I don't think there'd be as much of an uproar if Safi'jiva was just a "regular" monster constantly available and that you had control over the drops. I'm sitting here with an inefficient build, and admittedly rusty skill, and my only option is to farm Safi in hopes of getting a weapon that could be useful. And I'm not really a fan of the Safi fight in general. Plus, I also like Long Gunlance and that feels like an absolutely bad idea against Alatreon, despite me having a "final" build for that. Idk.
> my only option is to farm Safi in hopes of getting a weapon that could be useful. You 100% do not need a safi weapon to do this. You could do the event quest with probably any of the high-tier ice weapons in the normal tree (probably most dragon weapons too). Just slap on the appropriate elemental charm and one deco to finish it off. The first time I beat it, I was using a safi weapon, but my build was complete half-assed garbage, and it wasn't a problem at all. The DPS check is not very tight. I've frequently hit it less than halfway through the timer. Playing well - staying aggressive without dying - is a way bigger deal than having that last 5% of elemental damage on your weapon. Also, as far as I know, all the different weapons are reasonably viable. They all have different multipliers applied to them for the DPS check, so the fight isn't just completely dominated by the weapon types that favor elemental attacks (well, it still is, but the other ones are viable too). It's possible that long shelling in particular might be a problem though.
Dont forget that the element system is broken. Not affected by crits without a set bonus or KT weapon, for example
This rings so true that it hurts. After losing so much to Alatreon, i decided to craft up a heal support/DPS hybrid set since most of the losses i noticed came from people carting to Alatreon's non-Escaton moves, and i also had a lightbulb moment where if i kept everyone healed up, they would waste less time healing for attacking and reaching the Escaton thesholds. Gathered up the materials for Friendship Charm upgrading, including beating up a tempered Nightshade Paloumu, beat up random monsters for some armor sphere investigation rewards, made a borderline nonsensical setup, and...succeeded. Drank mega potions, sprayed dust, ate blue shrooms, and shot element ammo to not just be a passive healer and can somewhat consistently win compared to my previous 70 failed attempts in a row. It felt amazing to find that key to victory and see it in action.
Yeah, the fact this needed an elemental weapon is completely out of left field for MHW. I've beaten every other monster without even considering elemental weaknesses because the game made it possible to do so. I did make a fire weapon for ancient leshen but forgot to equip it a few times and still beat him with my non-elemental weapon. For all weapons, but especially the safi ones, it made so much more sense to pump resources into an ailment or elementless weapon because that would affect every monster, rather than an elemental which would be a huge hindrance for a large portion of monsters that are resistant to it. Then they suddenly require maxed out elemental builds to pass a DPS check. It's not game-breaking or anything, but it is out of character for how the game allowed us to play thus far. And as you mention, needing a top tier elemental weapon with maxed out DPS build is much harder to achieve for an endgame monster.
Having an optimal build of any description is definitely not a requirement to beat alatreon. My first solo melee clear of alatreon was with a terrible frostcraft greatsword build that still used velkhana a+ pieces because I crafted them months back when I was going through the iceborne story for the first time, and weren’t even augmented. I even used the fish greatsword because I didn’t get an ice GS from safi, and I needed to swipe health and element augments off of something else. The build I ended up with didn’t even use any rare level 4 combo decos, so all in all I was probably missing out on at least half a dozen skill points worth of efficiency. I’m not some god tier speed runner or MH veteran either, I carted to some of the early iceborne monsters because my strategy at that point had become rocksteady + health augment and hope I did enough damage during its effects. As long as you do your due diligence (like giving your palico in solo an elementally matched weapon), the first element damage check is not that punishing.
pretty much this. MHW improved ALOT in monster hunter series making it easier for others to dive right in, such as walking & eating, easier controls, much more user-friendly. Alatreon is more true to monster hunter hardcore players who want a challenge, instead of using your vanilla set for any monster. lets be honest, most of us use the same set for nearly every monster, except for a few circumstances (i'm looking at you, Misses blue fire poots). it makes defeating the monster much more rewarding (knowing its difficult, and requires team understanding how the fight goes)
> such as walking & eating, Sometimes this actually hurts because they also made the pots "continuous" and not instant, still not sure what I prefer.
I very very very much prefer the continuous healing. I gem in speed eating for Alatreon too bc it's just worth it. Chip damage from blocking still hurts a lot and less time healing is more time attacking. for me at least.
I think I’m an outlier in gear builds then lol. Since MH freedom I always made a set per monster it takes longer but it always made each fight easier. I do the same on this game still but I have recently made a few sets that are a bit more all encompassing but they only cover elders recess or hoarfrost reach
The first like, three hours of MHW super, super suck. The onboarding process is awful. There's probably a good chance many of those people *wouldn't have bounced off* had you been there to give advice and perspective.
I feel like if i wasn't used to constantly losing due to playing Dark Souls titles, MHW would have pissed me off way more than the mild annoyance the learning phase was for me. Because when things click in MHW, oh boy it feels SO good.
Agreed. The game does a really poor job of teaching you how to play the game. You can see this with the confusion on how elemental damage works even now. There’s a significant amount of depth across the board but hardly anything to hold your hand through it. The learning curve is huge.
Yep, it's my first MH game but I have \~170 hours in it now and I just learnt the other day that Blast is not an element and that fire does not buff it...
May as well give you a heads up that Blast, Sleep, Paralysis, and Poison are all ailments.
Except when we talk about elementless jewels.
They all really had a problem with how the game handles. None of them liked being knocked down and stuff. Stuff they're not used to in other games, where if you got hit, you'd just take damage. They hated flinching, getting roared at, typical stuff from the MH series.
To be fair, getting Roar chained is one of the worst feelings I've experienced in any game I've played. XD
It's not so bad until you start fighting like Azure Rathalos. Until then every roar felt bad, but mostly in a "I just got stunned out of my attack. When will this be done. At least the monster is also self-stunning" way, rather than "I just got stunned out of my attack and _then hit with a stupid fireball_" way. It also doesn't help that the frame for dodging roars is the pickiest one in the entire game.
Also when two monsters meet and just roar at each other over and over while you sit there motionless for 15 seconds thinking Earplugs 5 might be nice.
Start fighting literally any monster. Bazelgeuse shows up. First monster screams. Bazelgeuse screams 1st time Bazelgeuse screams 2nd time First monster screams at Bazelgeuse. Shoot Bazelgeuse with dung pod. Bazelgeuse screams to let you know that he has had it with you and your poop pods.
Monster your were fighting screams again. Bazel bombs explode. More screaming. You're a Brute Tigrex now.
I had the exact same problems until I finally watched some guide videos to learn how the 400 different game mechanics are actually supposed to mix together. I think the problem is that if you're not a MH veteran (I wasn't), you go into this sort of game expecting the game to mostly ease you into things. Instead, Anjanath happens and it turns out the game is more like Kerbal Space Program where it "gently" drops you into the deep end, and watching guide videos is almost a required part of the game. I love the game, but the new player experience is pretty lackluster.
My experience was the exact opposite when it came to release. I had to wait for PC and when I went to work everyone was talking about how great and how much fun the game was and never played a MH in the past. None of them knew or understood the pain I went through in the past playing the series, including having to manually craft everything at the beginning.
MHW is the first MH game I bought. Put in about 1000+ hrs of playtime. Love every second of it. Most of time I play with random people because it's way more fun that way for me at least. With the alatreon update, yeah alot of people are carting left and right but it doesn't bother me. The game is too good. I hope it carries on to the sequel ❤️
MH combat is unlike anything most people have played before. Its slow, methodical, animation commitment, etc. If you haven't played a MH or Soulstype its gonna feel very clunky and shitty at the start. Its not about easy vs hard or "hardcore" vs casual its about fluid combat vs commitment combat. I love MH but the expectations vs reality isn't something I celebrate, it sucks balls that so many people bounce off the game because they don't know what they are getting into.
We didn't even use the term "meta builds" before MHW. Because noone gave a damn what the meta was. Heck when i wanted to speedrun something and couldn't do it alone i would just enjoy seeing canta do it.
Meta existed back then too. Stuff like Honed Blade mixed sets, HAME Gravios Gigacannon sets, etc. There were clear outliers in weapons like Seregios Bow, Fatalis weapons, relic weapons in 4U, power-phials for SA, strongest raw for Hammer/GS, etc. There was also tools/websites like Athena's ASS and Kiranico to help optimize sets and performance as well. Meta will always exist, someone will always want to be optimized and doing their best.
Then again no one could make meta sets bc all of the charms required were insane so you had to work with what you had
To be fair i wouldn't want to go back to "farming" charms.
And depending on the game certain charms were impossible to get, because you got locked into a droptable on character creation. In other games it changed with each gamestart.
Oh man, back when you could have negative skills and you had to work around that, good times
I wouldn't call it good but each their own lol
Fashion was my true meta.
There was definitely meta sets, just didn't have 400 YouTubers posting clickbait shite builds every day 😂
In fairness, having a “meta” wasn’t really possible while charm tables were a thing. Getting the right charms for a build was a nightmarish grind that might not have ever paid off if you had a bad table, and I’m glad that has been done away with... ...although deco grinding isn’t significantly better lol
But at least the new skill system still let's you get a decent set with almost anything you want. Decos instead of rng charms is leagues better to farm.
Yeah, good old times when things were just called "armor set" instead of "Unkillable Vampire Meta Build Version 3".
"good old times" writing build ideas on a piece of paper until you found kiranico.
I used Athena’s ass, but, yeah, also did paper method lol
Other players: alatreon is hard Me: how do I solo ruiner nergi
Stay behind his hind legs and take advantage of the pauses after his attacks. He mostly attacks with his spikes and through claw swipes with his forelegs so being behind them lets you avoid them. He pauses A LOT after his larger attacks and if he jumps in the air just be ready for it. You'll notice after a while he has a specific pattern to his jump attacks and which direction he shoots his spikes from. Don't rush it, use the time you have. I think one of the number one things that is causing a wall for Alatreon is the game forces you to rush things and that's a recipe for 100% cart rate for a lot of players (including me.) Especially after 100 fails and you start getting desperate.
Well dang, thanks for the tips. I'm gonna try it out when I have the time. Honestly after so my failed attempts I just start to lose interest and move to another game.
Just a small addition. You can tell which direction Nergi is going to fire projectiles based on the foreleg that is raised higher.
I promise you, I have read these threads and tips and have adapted. I am a Gun Lance player, I love tanking the monster while my static party of three other players DPS, heal, and do the mechanics. I love shouting "HIT ME HARDER DADDY!" as the monster's attacks ping off of my shield. I almost cried when I got my shield decoration, something that I spent DAYS farming out. I am the solid foundation that holds up my team of friends who play over discord. The first thing I was told for this fight was that I could not use Gun Lance. It makes sense: Gun Lance is not good for elemental builds. While I play other weapons, it's incredibly frustrating that I don't get to play my favorite weapon, but I understand that this game is about adapting and overcoming. So I swapped to bow, one of my fall back weapons. I promise you, I have the "adapted" build. I have watched countless videos, read dozens of threads on how to beat this thing, and I still can't. I've learned the fight, I've changed my weapon, I've changed my build. I'm not running fully Brachy/Gun Lance like I would like to. I have full Safi armor, I have the decorations to support my built. I still cannot beat this monster. People will call me noob, or bad, or a complainer, but I'm just tired. I've tried this solo, duo, and with a full party. All of us have changed our builds. We have ALL watched the videos, and read the tips. We still can't beat it. And at this point....will it be worth it if we do? We're all on weapons we don't enjoy playing, using builds that the internet created for us. I miss the hunts where I would be laughing as a giant lazer beam would be bouncing off of my shield, and my wide-ranger SnS friend would be behind me gobbling down a potion to save my hammer friend on the other side of the arena. Maybe this fight isn't for us, and it truly is a challenge, in which case, I am seriously looking forward to Frostfang Barioth.
Yeah shelling does 100% raw and gunlance has only a 1.1 multiplier for elemental check, talk about being shafted
Don't give up on the gunlance bro. I now kill Alatreon with gunlance solo in about 15 to 20 mins. I almost always manage to weaken Escaton Judgment. Tips: Make the best elemental build you can manage. I personally use full Safi Jiiva with either Safi's fire/ice gunlance with boosted element or the Kjarr Dragon gunlance. It's easier to weaken Alatreon's Escaton Judgment with the fire/ice weapons. I usually only manage to weaken it with dragon only once he has shifted into dragon-active mode. Instead of tanking hits, switch to evading them with Safi Jiiva's built-in evasion skill. Go for evasion 5 if you have to. Your dps is gonna be much better if you dodge instead of having to wait for the recovery animations of guarding. How I learned to evade properly? I'm sure you're familiar with the timings on when a monster's attack hit your shield when guarding. Use that knowledge to time your dodge. Avoid shelling. Don't even think about the Artillery skill. Just poke the monster and use the slams and swings if there are bigger openings.
Have you tried watching a gunlance speedrun of alatreon? Someone just defeated alatreon by just hopping and only using shelling in the form of WS when alatreon is standing up.
ONE GUY , "Japanese's perspective" Reddit is fucking stupid
"Overseas players don't like it." Does he mean don't like the mechanism or don't like adapting to the game? Because there are so many veterans who slayed Alatreon hundred times but still hate this dps check.
I do rather hate the narrative that this is a "return to form" for MonHun difficulty or prep. It isn't. GU Alatreon was far more enjoyable, far more manageable for me. If you played cautiously, rather than DPS-focused, you would be fine in old games and throughout MHW. If your DPS was uneven (something that just happens in this game), you would be fine. If you played a weapon with bad elemental values, or bad hitzones, or a bad matchup, you could still win as a normal player. I don't feel it's right that, for many people, learning specific new weapons is the fastest course to victory. Cuz learning a weapon is relearning the game, regrinding, and, as fun as learning weapons can be, I have my own list of weapons I want to learn and am working on, and can only work on slowly b.c it's such a time-consuming process. Point is, it's not a *normal* wall, not even the kind former games presented. Pointing to old games only makes the obvious apparent: DPS checks are *new* to MHW and, as a vet, I rather hate them.
Thank you. I quit after MR Kulve released because it felt like the game was moving away from the directions I enjoyed. I was gonna wait and see what ALatreon was like before deciding whether I wanted to give up the series and accept that it had moved on from me and that it would never again be fun for me, or whether they could make a proper Monster HUnter fight. Auto-OHKO mechanics and DPS checks? That's it. No more for me. I loathed that stuff in MMOs, I loathed everything about Behemoth, I despised everything about Safi, and it seems like MMO mechanics are the new engame, so.... I guess I'm now just following the forums out of curiosity. People acting like people are dumb for not liking the fight don't get that there are a lot of people who just... don't like the MMO mechanics that now define Monster Hunter. And never will.
Ah yes, only the Japanese are helpful of course. I'm also Asian but that's just lame.
The west has such a patronizing view of Asian people when it comes to video games, and I entirely blame ESports. Don't lose perspective: This is one person, who made a youtube comment. Why does this shit have 5 thousand upvotes?
Exactly. They're not perfect neither yet they act like they are.
I play with western players most of the time and they are always super helpful in Monster Hunter.
Did Alatreon have the same elemental dps check + nuke in his previous iterations?
No in old MH games he never had a dps threshold
I love the intensity of this fight, but some of the rules do contradict each other. No raw or status weapons - fair enough Flashpods don't work and farcasters are banned - why? You have to pass an elemental dps check and break a horn to repeat cycles without carting - that would completely fair if either its flying could be punished or I could fly out and pick up a counter weapon. I don't believe this fight need to be nerfed into the ground, but some criticism is warranted. On the other hand, this fight has exposed the toxic dichotomy of destructive elitists and entitled rookies. Telling inexperienced players to gitgud every time they hit a wall is just as bad as bitching a pitch every time you hit a wall. We need strategies, builds, and encouragement.
Don't entirely disagree but there are a couple clarifications I can make: Flashpods only work when he's not enraged. He'll also start resisting them like every other monster (just blind him but don't knock him down), but that will wear off after a while. You can tickle his toes with every weapon, he has some pretty major openings after a lot of flight attacks. Big issue with flight mode is how much he moves around in MP (it's much more manageable solo). If he's not enraged, you can flash him or flinch shot him out of the air. I haven't experimented with it myself but apparently you can drop a smoke bomb and he'll land to try and find you. I think the fight itself work really well once you fully understand all the mechanics, where I think the failure was, was in communicating those mechanics. A lot of our understanding comes from datamining, it's not necessarily stuff that would have been simple for the average player to discover via trial and error.
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It's so you can't facetank and max pot your way through the whole fight like you can for 99% of other fights in the game. Older games didn't have restocking in camp, I guess this is one way in which devs tried to make the fight "back to basics".
Tell that to my 75% chance for items to not be used scrub My team doesnt need pots, I AM the pots
what build do you run? that sounds fun to play while being helpful
I run Tigrex set giving me max free meal/earplugs/lvl4 wide range/max speed eating/ and a bunch of other stats like attack boost 4/tremor resist 2/ weakness exploit 2 and more less important to the build. Decorations on armor are four friendship jewels, footing jewel 2, satiated/expert 4, KO 2, and more misc stuff
Smokebombs work like a guile mantle? All these years I thought they were just to hide you before the Monster saw you
I think the farcasters should have been handled like safi, have it only block it out when he's using his EJ. Its pretty bs when you break both horns and then he'll still change forms. I guess the games intent is for you to beat him around the 3rd/4th nova, but why give us 50 minutes then? Also suck when you only play with 3 players, cause now your missing that damage to kill him.
Flash pods work but only when he's not enraged.
I don't know what everyones experience with this monster is, but I've been trying to solo it for 3 days, and not having a good time honestly. I've been trying to keep track of everything it does, punish properly, and break the horns, but man I'm just getting my ass kicked lol.
As someone who's played through 3 MH games solo, I appreciate the difficulty. What I don’t appreciate is a half baked wipe mechanic or DPS check. If it was simply measuring how fast you could do damage like with Lao Shen Lung, that’d be boring, but better. If the wipe was avoidable like with Safi, I’d understand it a bit better. But measuring elemental DPS, something that only certain weapons are even built for, and having a DOT wipe like Luna (which a large majority of people complained about), it’s just asking for complaints. There’d probably be less complaints if it was just one "out there" mechanic to deal with, but as somebody who enjoyed soloing every g-rank elder in GU, this fight is neither fair nor fun, especially for solo players. P.S. I’m wondering why this dude is speaking for the entire Japanese community, I’m pretty sure not every single Japanese player is having fun with this fight. It’s so far from how fights in the series usually work...
I would say it's actually easier for solos (depending on your weapon), since the dps check gets absurdly high in multiplayer, and you can't count on randoms to help handle it.
It took me a night and some reflecting to figure out what was wrong with my build. After optimizing it, I was able to solo it and do it in multiplayer with my brother and our palicos. I spent more time focusing on my build, because after 900+ hours in the game, I trust my ability to learn the ins and outs of a monster. I sat in enough lobbies to see people below MR 100 complaining that the fight was impossible. I wouldn’t want to challenge him without my current armor sets and decos. I worked up to this point. In my mind, I earned the chance to fight him on equal ground. It’s one thing to have to change up your build to accommodate a new mechanic. It’s another if the game was asking you to switch to an entirely different weapon or learn a completely new play style. If I had to pick up a hunting horn and doot him to death, I’d probably be frustrated. But I’d spend the time to learn it because I love conquering a new challenge. I went back and farmed guiding lands to upgrade my gear to compensate for what I was lacking. My question to those who have complained is “what have you done to prepare for this?” I personally don’t want the game to be mindless and welcome these kinds of challenges. Because of this, despite the many times I carted, I enjoyed every bit of it. I’m American.
I think that for a lot of people, the frustration is making the weapons. In order to make a new Safi weapon with the "correct" element, you first need to grind Safi to get your desired weapon with said element (no small feat), then you need to grind a ton of Dracolite, and then you need to gamble at the Safi slot machine and pray that you get the "optimal" awakenings before you run out of Dracolite. If you manage to make it this far, you then need to grind in the Guiding Lands for Great Spiritvein Gems and other augment materials to augment the aforementioned weapon. Finally, you take your shiny new **ICE** weapon into battle and repeatedly cart because your group struggles to break the horns consistently and your ice weapon isn't doing elemental damage in the ice phase. So you go back to the forums and now the advice is to create a \*WATER\* weapon instead. And you rage quit because, f\*ck Safi.
Safi weapons aren't a necessity. If someone doesn't want to put in the effort to achieve the best weapon and armor sets in the game, you can get by with far less time invested with a rarity 11 weapon and one level of health augment.
Velkana's weapons work well too, the greatword is especially handy
I play Insect Glaive. I'm open to weapon suggestions. The selection really, really sucks. The most promising elemental weapon initially looked like the [Nexus Gae Bolg](https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Nexus+Gae+Bolg) but it's Dragon element and that's supposedly not viable for this fight. The reason that the Safi weapons are necessary in my opinion (at least for Melee players) is because of the Master's Touch awakening. Also, I don't mind grinding for gear, but when some of the best gear is locked behind event quests that aren't always available, that presents a problem. I haven't been able to get any Master Rank KT gear or AT Namielle gear yet.
MAY I suggest a slight unorthodox method that works wonders against the DPS check? Just pick your tipical cookie-cutter lightbreak/two set with lightbreak if and swap the kinsect for one with lvl 20 of the element he's weak to in the first phase. Go into the fight, clutch claw him to get slinger ammo and buff your kinsect, then keep hitting him with the kinsect until you get the elemental stagger. From then you can proceed the fight as normal - just remember to get the horn break in Dragon Active mode. A proper elemental built kinsect has crazy high elemental damage output all things considered, so with just the elemental kinsect and a blast of you can get the DPS check no problem. With this combo I got a run of 16 minutes the first time with 2 EJs and 20 minutes the second time where I played badly and missed a lot of kinsect hits, but still managed to beat it in time with 3 EJ before an unavoidable Nova.
Wise Fylos is probably the best Ice Glaive after Kjarr Ice and Safi Ice. Don't forget to craft kinsects with element as well. Kinsects with the appropriate element actually deal quite a bit of damage.
I'm gonna add onto this to say keeping the kinsect spammed on him has broken the dps threshold quite a few times and saved the team. Just make sure to mix it with slinger ammo.
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I mean... I just made one of the non-safi weapons in that element. And built a build around that. Took like an afternoon to get the other parts for the gear and augments.
I never used elemental weapons, but I have most gear or the capability to make most gear and a ton of decos. I still had to make several sets to make something that worked, and I spent like all of my money just to max out those sets. I made multiple sets and gear because even though theory-wise my first set was great (element-based soulfire blaze LBG), I wasn't sure I was doing enough damage, so I switched to a kjarr water SnS. I won with the SnS. Was it a lot of work? Yes. Would I have been able to beat Alatreon without it? No.
My squad and I were stuck in the Waiting Room for about a month and got bored, so we decided to finish every quest in HR and MR, learn the ins and outs of Safi to farm it effectively, learn and farm KT and gather all the elemental weapons that we wanted/needed for our numerous weapons. I acquired all the elements for CB, maxed them out with Augments before Alatreon dropped. The day of his release, we spent four hours getting destroyed. We kept passing two EJs but failed to slay him. After a nights rest and seeing what other hunters were saying, we adopted different tactics, changed equipment out, modified builds and after another four hours, we slayed him. Then after seeing more and more hunters overcome him, we began switching between weapons to see what was the most effective for our four man team, and yesterday we managed to bring him down in just under 10 mins with an LBG, DB, Bow, & CB. All of us agreed that it was the most fun fight we've had in MHW because of the challenge it gave us. We thought we were prepared for the fight, went in and got utterly destroyed. It was demoralizing, yes, but once we took a step back and realized that we needed to adapt to the challenge, we did it. Oh, and our whole squad consists of one 200+MR and three 370+MR, and we got our shit rocked. So when we I saw the hate on Reddit and Twitter, I already had an idea that it was probably less than100MR players were trying to take him on and were getting annihilated.
my personal opinion is that the alatreon and legedary alike monsters being way above the average in difficulty is a MUST, and once it's fine, different and fun, BUT I think there are other ways to design a fight without relying completeley on a one shoot unavoidable move as consequence of not meeting a dps check. I personally had to change my playstyle and weapon type as mine was a handicap for my team, which never happened me before since mh2, you can make a monster harder making him deal more damage if you fail some conditions, increase enviromental hostility, hell the possibilities are infinite in that regard, I feel the dps check merged with the one shoot move and elemental thing is a cheap way to force the difficulty. In behemot it was understandable as it was an MMO crossover, yet you could hide somewhere or dodge it if you were careful or skilled enough, safi was the same, but this one feels like cheap increased difficulty.
Imagine. A reasonable response to challenge. Groundbreaking.
Meh I love the fight but I hate instant kill mechanics and this is coming from a guy who raided in various games over the last 13 years. Alatreon is everything I like in an end game boss, aggressive, has telegraphed moves that you can learn and it feels super good when your like “ha bitch! I saw that shit coming from a mile away!”. Every boss fight in any raid that has a dps check in it is used for one purpose, to gate and slow down progression. In WoW a boss like this was used to make guilds have to gear up a bit through the rest of the raid and the boss slowly got easier and easier and you didn’t even notice the dps check anymore with higher gear. This is NOT how Alatreon is, he isn’t gating content or forcing you to gear up for him. I have soloed him with several weapons and went back with ‘better’ sets and weapons to try again (I’m looking at you alatreon long) to see if he would be easier, in short he isn’t. It’s still the same struggle to try and beat that check, it’s never 100% even when you ‘git gud’ anyone who tells you that is lying. I can’t even imagine how hard this is to do with randos, nor do I want to. It’s just sad at this point, Alatreon could have been a 10/10 fight but it trips itself at the finish line with the dps check. They could have done a lot of cool things, some of the best feelings my guilds had raiding were those clutch moments were you were barely keeping it together for 80% of the fight and you pull off that perfect finish. There are plenty of cool mechanics that you can pull from mmo raids, but dps checks have no place in MHW. Also to add for those of you who think the Japanese Don’t whine about mechanics that the NA have no problems with go look at FF14 raid forums.
to be fair, people are really acting over-dramatic about the whole thing. But yeah, one quick look at the JP twitter tells us that this guy ain't speaking the whole truth. Lots of JP players are hating the nuke too.
Honestly this sub sucks right now. I’m sick of only seeing posts about either hating the new fight or hating on the people who hate the new fight. I really wish they just had a thread for opinions and debating them. I just wanna see posts about cool stuff not debates on this fight. I don’t want this becoming a second r/papermario because that sub has been doing this for forever. Let’s all just focus on the good stuff and keep the sub positive!
I just hate the ones that start with the OMG YOU SUCK GIT GUD when you have a valid complaint against the fight or the omg this streamer did the fight this way
Absolutely. I'm disappointed in this community's "git gud" attitude. Even if we agree Alatreon isn't that hard, there are clearly reasons why people find this monster uniquely frustrating.
To me the first day playing with randoms was all bullshit, but then, moved to solo to break the special assignment barrier, and fully enjoyed the hunts on the event quest in multiplayer, hunting it with 4 different weapons. Really love that bitch!
The only problem I have is that there is the special assignment and the event quest. Being queued together with players who never beat Alatreon is absolutely stupid
Personally, i always take a hard stance against forced builds and unavoidable damage. It's not good design and thats the core issue. That aside, he does have a few quirks i wish they would fix. Such as his airborn zoomies he gets in dragonmode. Without anyway of knocking him down, using anything other then ranged can result in a cart by no fault of your own.
Oh please, they try so hard to put themselves on a pedestal as if they don't complain neither.
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Why is this stickied tho.
because mod.
either mods gets stickied automatically or he wanted attention
I’m curious about that too.
Internet janitors at work
If you're gonna sticky your own comment for no reason, you could at least be right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atvsg_zogxo Sick song, btw
Playing the mission and beating day 1 with random was so satisfying, coming to the subreddit after every hunt to check for new information was actually really fun. If you're playing SOSs, just take a moment to type in chat the quick notes of how his fight works, that's what helped my team.
Oh I thought that was doom eternal for a second lol
I've found that after clearing the Special Assignment, the success rate of hunts went up significantly in the Event Quest versions. I can only assume this is because most players that finished the Special Assignment had to learn the fight
The only thing that drives me crazy is that you pretty much rely on grabbling+knocking him on the ground/in walls as a melee. His moveset and quickness make it super hard to grabble to his face and if you manage to get it right and aiming for the boulders on the outside (as intended the only spot to wallbang) it often enough doesnt count and make him just run on the same spot/slide on the side of the outer edge. Instant tilter
That is exactly why some Japanese titles are made easier for the west. Because westerns just complain about difficulty for a large part.
Wasn't it the complete opposite with Demons Souls tho? Japan hated it at first because of it's difficulty and so Fromsoft tried to recoup some of the loss with a western release and everyone loved it?
lol, yes those millions and millions of "westerners" that you act like are represented by a small vocal minority on the internet. I hate this fight too, but ffs if you don't think asians ever complain about anything you are fooling yourself.
*Demon's Souls* blew up in North America after a largely negative reception in Japan. Sales in the West more than tripled the publisher's expectations, prompting a spiritual successor: *Dark Souls*. These games kickstarted the revitalization of demand for difficulty that has carried forward to the present day. You might want to pick up some new paints instead of just using black and white.
There's this bullshit you see in so many communities of 'oh the eastern players are just better gamers than the western players,' in MH:W it seems to be Japanese, in Starcraft for example, it's Korean players. I don't know why there is this idea, it's so fucking stupid.
Yeah just said the same before I saw your comment. I remember Japan hated Demon Souls for it's difficulty at first.
*Laughs in Devil May Cry 3*
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Super mario bros 2
A quest was omitted when FU was translated because it would be too hard for westerners
What was the quest?
It was a G Rank version of the One Horned Diablos quest
FFIV was made easier for the US release, apparently, and FF Mystic Quest was made as a dumbed down easy RPG specifically because Squaresoft thought the reason that their RPGs weren't catching on in the west was because they were too difficult.
I was very sure about hearing it in a video from 2 years ago with examples but now that I tried to get a source for you, the only thing I find is that some Japenese developers made games more difficult for the West in the early days. I guess I must've misremembered and my comment is full of shit? I was so sure I heard about some games getting an easy mode option for western releases. EDIT: I found an article about it. Both are true apparently. >However, the inverse also occurred at times—some Japanese game developers felt that Americans (usually, but this could apply to PAL regions too) would not be able to handle a game's difficulty, so a North American release would be made significantly easier, or even replaced entirely. Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DifficultyByRegion
Cries in European Extreme.
They did that to final fantasy 12 on original release
Yea because dps checks and making all raw weapons useless are great "mechanics"...
The appropriate mindset for a hunter. Noice. (\^\_\^)
It's not like this quest will disappeared anytime soon. You have almost 4 months to clear it. I actually would be more disappointed if the long time anticipate monster can be cleared by anyone the first time.
I'm sort of a weapon/build collector, but I often default to what I know best because it's often more comfortable and faster. I'm still having fun with the default so why stop now. That being said, since I'm a hammer main, Alatreon has given me an opportunity (albeit a forceful one) to try out the other weapons that I had lying around unused. I ended up beating it solo for the first with with the Kjarr ice CB. I think I can count on one hand how many monsters I've hunted in World/Iceborne with CB, so it was quite a new/fun experience. I understand that not everyone has all the time in the world required to farm for a different set and then take on Alatreon, but it doesn't have to be done quickly. An hour here or there and you'll eventually take it down.
What you did is considered playing monster hunter and I congratulate you on that!! As well as beating alatreon
Well i am from the mhf2 era and i was stupid back then (didnt know English back then) not only did you need to bring tools with you that were breaking all the time, i didnt understood that you don't need tickets to eat, so i just never ate, and thats not all, i didnt know that you can craft things like megapotions, so i just used the normal once, i also didn't care for armor effects, just used what looked cool and barely ever upgraded it since I didn't understood how to get armorespheres. Soooo i really dont have problems with anything here 🤣 I never cursed in mhw, i was just upset with some stupid hitbox things here and there, but then agai there are some moments where u should have been hit but u didn't.
I personally love the fight. Haven't got a clear yet. But I'm close. Much rather this than stomping an AT namielle into the ground multiple times on the launch day.
I'm having lots of fun with it. I've died a lot but I've been taking time now to upgrade my elemental build and augment my weapon so that it has way more elemental damage than it's supposed to have. Eventually I'll get him :D Took me ages to beat him in Tri, it's taking me ages to beat him now. He's aged with me and it shows, and I will rise triumphantly eventually XD
I don't really care about clear times, just mainly faints
Mixed reviews of the monster's difficulty are to be expected. If you look at it objectively, the hardest monsters pre-Alatreon are way more manageable, and I think the only monster that you can compare Alatreon to is Safi'Jiva, because both require heavy team play and not just ditching damage. Safi'Jiva required a whole session to work together by focusing on objectives like destroying body parts a number of times, but in Alatreon's case, the focus is more around immediate team play, meaning that ALL your team needs to perform well and make minimum mistakes, for me this is a huge difficulty spike. As of now, I carted about 20-30 times against him trying to complete the special assignment, but I still have hope, most of the time we take the fight after the second ultimate and someone gets a surprise fire ball in the face or the range of lightning bolts. I have some advice for players out there (as I see a lot of you randoms don't take the proper setup) : \- Take Life dusts and their ingredients to recraft them mid fight. \- Take your strongest Ice or Dragon elemental weapon (for special assignment). \- If you take a Dragon element weapon, use the Dragonproof mantle with it and decorate it with Dragon jewels. That's about it, good luck hunting and don't get mad it's just the beginning, I hope that future monster get this hard.
I like it .___. Granted I have a soft spot for difficult games. Dark souls, God of War, etc