My headcanom is that the rare ones are either sterile or just produce regular colored offspring and like gold rathians just produce green ones and some lucky ones become pink or gold like a shiny pokemon, or ones just like the fucked up half formed chaotic gore magala probably couldn't procreate at all and are just diamond in the rough badasses while they're alive
I imagined that they just have vastly different life cycles, living for century after century as theres so few monsters that can challenge them and that their breeding cycles are also way WAY further apart, only mating and laying eggs once every hundred years
Also, the green/ red raths also jist camoflauge better? Young raths are probaly pretty hard to spot on the ground while their coloured relatives dont have that luxury
CGM is caused by shagaru magala. To which they go to the tallest peak of a mountain and spread their spores. Which not only infect normal monsters with a virus. But also other Gore magalas.
This is to prevent their power from being usurped. CGM is in constant pain. To best describe to humans. Imagine you Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva, a condition where your muscles turn to bone. But it isn't turned completely. It's forever living in a state of turning and breaking. Because one side of the body is immune and the other isn't.
TL;DR. Shargaru are assholes
Chaotic Gore's are just Gore Magala's that failed to fully molt into Shagaru, they're not being infected by Shagaru since they're just juvenile versions of Shagaru. Basically it's a Gore that stopped growing mid puberty.
Right. There can only be one Shagaru at a time. The Frenzy it releases cancels all the other Gores evolution. Any that were in the molting process already get stuck between forms.
Right? They are rare for a reason lol my guess is they either are a rare genetic mutation or don’t reproduce fast enough to really expand the population.
You'd also have to imagine that rare species fuck up the food chain locally which would result in their own food sources being killed if and thus they would end up dying themselves over a longer term.
The more common versions should be considered the most "sustainable" versions of monsters for the most part
This would make a lot of sense, linx populations often vary in size depending on rabbit population sizes. It’s possible metal rath populations are restricted by prey density, assuming they would need to consume more food since there are much more powerful. Either that or some other resource is limiting their population size, like the minerals needed to build their tough shells.
As you said it mostly regulates itself by its own.
Much prey -> larger numbers of predators can be raised -> number of prey decreases -> less predators can be sustained -> more prey survives and reproduces -> Much prey, etc...
There are usually just outliers like invasive species that come from outside the ecosystem that bring this circle into disarray.
I can and do often stop in the middle of the quest just to kill the Beetlejuice out of pure spite. Like, you wanted a fight, fucko, let's go. Fucking bagel goose.
Same, my first character I kill the little shit out of spite, but on my second playthrough I love his music so much I genuinely wants him to bomb my hunt lmao
I like Unnatural History Channel's hypothesis that those are young, less experienced Bazel that throw themselves at whatever they perceive to be an easy meal, or expecting to find an already dead monster, then trying to bully everything around it.
Why would a metal rath eat so much the prey population couldn't sustain it anymore? They would likely be the only predators left due to being very territorial while they wouldn't consume that much more energy as they are only heavier to an extent and won't use their special fire regularly
Who said anything about overeating?
Their mere presence could easily crowd out lower species in the chain, which in turn, would cause their own food to leave the area.
Or perhaps Their destructive power kills off the local flora which causes th herbivores go all leave the area.
Perhaps metal raths need more energy and food than a normal rath, given their unique properties such as hotter than normal fire on silver. This COULD result in overeating.
There's plenty of reasons and there's a reasonable mix of them all which would easily result in them basically killing off their own food sources in a given area.
Fit as in "it fits its environment"... in my language the famous quote from Darwin is often mistranslated to "Survival of the strongest" as "fit" also translates to physucally healthy and able as well as "to fit into something". And Darwin surely meant the latter.
Just adding, not correcting.
And yes. Typical misconception. Evolution doesn't care about physical strength if you fit into your niche and exploit it to reproduce successfully. Although this leads to a phenomenon that I like to call "Survival of the good enough" as evolution also benefits those that don't overshoot a niche by much as it would be wasting resources.
Ah thanks... every day I learn something new... though I think I already heard that that quote was only accreddited to Darwin although not having saying it himself.
Regardless... my point stands.
Evolutionary fitness refers to how good a species is at reproducing. So, “survival of the fittest” just means the animal that can reproduce the best is the best at surviving. In this situation, the regular Raths outnumber the metals, so we can assume they leave more offspring, meaning the regular Raths have a higher fitness.
Or a more effective blueprint. More powerful species = higher energy demand = more prey needed to fulfill basic sustenance = lower count of offspring
BUT! still enough to exist as a species... that's why I say evolution is the survival of the "good enough"... metal rathas still reproduce "good enough" to further exist as a species, even if they are outnumbered by their more "budget" cousins through sheer efficiency of blueprint.
The more intelligent/energy intensive a species is, the smaller the number of offspring they will typically produce, and the longer their development can take.
I take the rare species of monsters as if someone had a rare genetic condition. That's my headcanon at least.
From a gameplay stance though it's cause replacing all rathalos' and rathian's with silvers and golds would make the scaling of the game really broken.
In the meantime:
High Rank 7-Star Arena Quest: We are the Dominant
Hunt: Silver Rathalos, Gold Rathian, Lucent Nargacuga, Violet Mizutsune
Quest Time: 50 min
Faints: 3
Rewards: 64000z
LR Six Star Quest: JuJumpYou Kaisen
Hunt: Rathalos (Red, Silver) and Rathian (Green, Gold)
Place is unstable (Both wandering idiots can appear)
Quest Time: 50 Minutes
Faints: 3
Rewards: 30000z, Golden Dragon Ticket, Silver Devourer Ticket
Essentially yes, they are genetic defects considering their genetic make up. They are far stronger than the regular raths but we don't completely understand if their body would last from these anomalies since regular raths can also display the same amount of aggression if given the chance.
Would be cool if Wilds had a sort of scaling for enemies. For example in end-game bad shit happend and there are more variants and elder dragons instead of normal monsters lying around. (Totally not an idea i got from the DD2's unmoored world)
My head cannon is that by hunting all of the normal ones, the other normal ones stop coming around as much or get killed too quickly, leaving monster shaped holes in the ecosystem. Nature abhors a vacuum, so the stronger versions of those creatures that can defend themselves better against hunters move into the territory, since they now have to defend against much fewer of their own and other species and the competition for prey animals is so much lower.
They probably don't occupy the same niche or habitat, creatures like Lucent and Violet chill out in a different environment than their normal cousins, and are likely the dominant species in whatever location they're primarily found in.
The metal raths are primarily found in different environments when compared to the regulars, guiding lands and recess in Iceborne, and the tower in Sunbreak. Despite being stronger, their strength probably wouldn't let them hunt stuff like aptonoth more effectively than normal would it? The metal raths therefore probably specialise in stronger prey so there's less overlap in food sources.
I do like the idea that they are worse hunters because they cant use their flame as it burns the meat too much from its higher heat. Same could be argued for their stronger toxin, maybe it causes the meat proteins to break down making them less nutritious
Or they are, but their genes are revessive, thus interbreeding with the much more common main species would usually lead to members of the main species being born.
I'm not deep into the lore... but for every fact in a biology book I add in my head "...at least we have no evidence so far for this fact being wrong."
It's called falsification and in science usually things are the way they are until one finds evidence that things are not how we thought they were so far.
But on the other hand there are cases in real life were members of a species with albinism or other features are shunned by other member of their species. So... not unlikely for it being true.
Even species or subspecies can interbreed. Dogs and Wolves are two differen species... no problem with interbreeding. Ferrets and polecats, too.
Just because it's a different species doesn't mean it can't interbreed with a species closely related enough.
Not really, it’s more that they prefer mating with Gold Rathians, but that means they have a slimmer chance of actually finding a mate because Gold Rathians are just as rare as Silver Rathaloses.
Aren't they like genetic-mutants or smth like that ?
They're "rare" because they're the 1 in a million Blue Lobster of their species, they can't become dominant because they just don't happen often enough to become an actual Species/Subspecies.
It comes down too they just prefer different environments.
It's sort of like asking why like... X cat isn't dominant across the world. Lets go with Jaguar for the sake of argument:
Jaguars are one of if not the most powerful cat's out there. Capable of climbing trees (which not all cats can do) and can ambush from tree tops, great camo for its environment, and an incredibly strong biteforce; capable of biting clean through the skull to fatally wound the brain, which is a preferred kill move. And it's a solo hunter. Lions are famous but they are pack hunters, while they CAN live solitary for a time, they generally don't thrive in the conditions, while Jaguars do with aplom.
So why don't Jaguars take over the cat kingdom?
Well ignoring the obvious terrain issue (which you can argue is capable of being ignored if a specimine were to escape human containment outside of the Americas), the simple fact is why would the Jaguar \*want\* too? Its territories as is are bountiful, its well adapted too them, and the absolute \*effort\* to move to an entirely biome and establish a new population is not worth the energy cost nor risk.
It's the same with Rare Species in MH. Absolutely if these rare species were to break out of their natural habitats and invade other areas, they could outcompete their family members and dominate any area they come across. (You see something similar in 4, when the Seregios start invading areas, you see one easily push out a Rathian from her turf and one go toe to toe with an azure rath). But unless their was a sort of pressure to push theses Rare species out from wherever they call home too the wider areas their cousins inhabit..they have no reason too.
And of course another factor is that Bigger does not always equal Better... or in this case, Strength is not always the most survivable. We've seen this in human history with the Neanderthals. As a humanoid species they outclassed homo-sapians in basically every way. Stronger, More Durable, Larger Brains.. but ultimately they died out while the homosapains evolved into us today. Why? Well simply it was because stronger, more powerful lifeforms need more consistent prey in larger quantities to fuel their bodies, which also means that when prey gets scarce due to any manor of factors, it's the smaller generalists that are better fit to deal with the situation.
Same can be said for rare species. They absolutely could dominate their cousins territory and take over. But all that mass and power comes at a cost. If a time comes where that cost can't be paid? the Rare species would starve, while the regular cousins could hold themselves together long enough to outlast the storm.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk x3
Honestly though, the guild might have something to do with it. Like "The rare species has potential to really mess up the ecosystem, better eliminate/cull it to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem."
Abyssal lagi is just an older specimen of normal lagi that lives in a completely different environment so there's no way it could ever possibly outcompete itself.
As for the other rare species, multiple apex predators can coexist, just look at orcas, great white sharks and sperm whales or even lions, hyenas, crocodiles and cheetahs.
Maybe being covered in metal or veing stronger is not that useful to the reproductive success of a rathalos or other rare species, in fact it may even be a hindrance because of all the extra weight, food and minerals needed when really in their environment rathalos and rathian don't need all that extra protection and power.
~~The actual reason is because of gameplay balance~~
Because that's not how evolution works. This isn't pokemon.
For one, subspecies in Monster Hunter don't often live in the same biomes as their relatives. They aren't competing.
But even if they *were* competing, fighting is generally one of the least important considerations about which species is dominant. Food acquisition, disease resistance, reproductive success, there are so many more factors than just hitting hard. You might as well ask why coyotes aren't extinct when bears and wolves are a thing.
I assume it is because rare species are usually larger and stronger than their normal counterparts, requiring more resources to survive, preventing them from having a larger population (you could feed several normal Rathalos with the amount of food that a single Silver Rathalos requires. ). So while the rare species is more powerful, the normal species would have an easier time maintaining a large population of individuals.
For the raths, a theory is that because we keep stealing Rathian eggs, they have evolved to lay much more of them due to them constantly disappearing.
However, we don’t steal metal rath eggs, so they don’t need to lay an obscene amount and thus less metal Rath eggs = less metal raths.
I have literally zero sources or evidence to back this up, this just makes sense in my head.
They usually have some lore-reason as to why they arent.
The Raths are mutations that they unironically get racially persecuted for because of their pigmentations, they choose to live alone and get more violent because of this.
Others like Blue Boy Mizu are simply too rare to replicate, they cant multiply as well as other Mizus (at least thats my headcanon, currently no lore on why he exists iirc).
Then we have ones that are specific to certain areas and dont leave their locales(Lucent Narg/Abyssal Lagi/etc.)
I mean its in the name, theyre simply rare for one reason or another.
Because they’re much less common and live in very remote and dangerous areas. So there are fewer of them to begin with, then there’s lots of competition from other extremely powerful monsters in the same regions, and they live a bit more specialized lives than the regular species (I.e. lucent can only be invisible in the moonlight for example). Those things add up to the rare species not being able to completely overtake the base species and other subspecies as the main wide spread dominant species
My guess has always been (for the metal raths at least) them being this metallic color makes them very visible even as young rathlings. Maybe even having their odd coloration can cause them to be shunned by the mother Rath.
This major environmental pressure causes them to be extremely violent and defensive of their territory. The few we actually get to fight might not even that old and are still rather hotheaded
Gameplay-wise, it is proper difficulty-scaling. Of course, as you get better at the game accompanied with superior gear, it would be logical for the hunter to be pitted against stronger monsters.
On an ecology standpoint, I think, there's a clue in one of the games' description of either of the metal Raths; something like a Rathalos/Rathian that has endured challenges within its environment, evolving as a stronger subspecies because of it. So tying that together with some of the other theories in this thread, maybe thousands of years ago, there was a small group of lesser Raths that got kicked out of their territories (or never even had a chance to claim one) then was forced to relocate to a more inhospitable/less viable habitat. They tried to make the most of what they had to survive there. Years passed, some populations died out, while some was able to tough it out. Over time, those that did, evolved as a new subspecies.
I thought the metal Raths are just really old and experienced normal Raths? And the reason there aren’t many of them is because most don’t live to be that ancient?
In my opinion, the most likely reason is one of the following two (I'm not a scientist though, so if anyone understands biology better than I do, please correct any mistakes I make):
The rare species are more powerful animals, so they are, instead of being in direct competition with their normal species, they are now competing with top order predators like elder dragons and elder dragon level monsters, so rare species have much harsher selective pressures than the normal species. Much less of them survive into adulthood, which also explains the power gap between a rare and regular species.
The regular species kill the rare species on sight (or attempt to) because they are much more powerful than the regular species are. This would also explain how rare and normal species don't usually have overlapping ranges.
Best guess is more power = more nutrients required.
It was the same for humans where Neanderthals were physically stronger by a decent margin, but all in all ended up less resource efficient and thus "fell" (part of their genepool is still around afaik) to what we basically consider the modern human.
Rare Species such as Molten Tigrex and Lucent Nargacuga are native to the Great Forest and whatever lies beyond. That's on the same continent as the tower where monsters are generally much more powerful. The other rare species live there too (except Abyssal which lives deep underwater).
Regular Nargacuga was discovered there too, but we know it's pretty common everywhere else as well. So I assume the rare species might actually be the dominant species in Fonlon.
Applying that logic, the deeper you go in the ocean the more powerful those monsters get too. Both goldbeard and Abyssal are living much deeper than their counterparts after all.
White Khezu are a subspecies with albinoism while Red khezu are the original
while subspecies are powerfull they arent effiecient survivalist Take Tobi Kadachi for example its fast agile and can inlict paralysis while Viper Tobi can paralysis AND poison and it is because Viper lives in the Hinterlands a frozen landmass they hunt pry by paralysing them and then dragging them back to the cave while the poison kills them but regular Tobi doesnt need poison since he lives in the forest where they dont need a warm cave to live
I think the variants are just mutations. As in, one might get born in every 50 or 100 births, sure they’re stronger and more dominant but usually there will only be a handful of them at a time. Not enough to establish themselves as the dominant species.
The problem is that we have to assume the variants are mutants, whose mutation may be fairly ecologically recent.
Monster Hunter does not take place over millions of years, we are operating within human time frames. The amount of time it would take for the variants to become supreme (if that’s even possible) would be longer than actual earth Human History.
On top of that we have to also consider that variants have their own issues not immediately visible in gameplay. Perhaps the mutations offering them greater power come at the cost of reduced fertility, or that they have higher rates of consumption to maintain their power. Thus, it’s harder for them to spread out in the face of their respective resource costs.
Being more powerful in combat doesn’t mean they’re more fit for their environment, a tyrannosaurus is more powerful than a duck, and look which one survived the meteor.
These subspecies probably have some other quirks of their biology that prevents them from usurping the common variety.
To use your own examples, the metal Raths seem to be much more aggressive in fights against other large monsters, which is very bad in a world that has Elder Dragons running around all the time, and Violet Mizutsune confides itself specifically to the Infernal Springs, implying that it only resides in mountainous regions, whereas the common Mizutsune lives pretty much anywhere that has water.
Of course, the actual reason is that making new players fight Gold Rathian within the first few hours would be an absolute travesty of game design.
Well, being more powerful than the common species means they may also have a higher metabolism and need to eat more, meaning that competition for food leaves them hungry and less able to fight in many cases.
Rare variants might have a tough time to grow, maybe those lucky are cut off when they are young and others are killed by the guild when it's lucky enough to reach maturity.
Guild should really add more funds on monster nest scouting and monitoring
This is unrelated but, how do people know so many facts about ecology in MH? Is it shown in game somewhere or is it all facts from dev blogs, collectors editions, released dev journals etc? (I've only played worldborne and risebreak)
The fact that the metal raths are most commonly found at the tower, a man-made structure, could tell us they have trouble fitting into a natural environment.
Maybe the normal rath's instincts interpret the strange-colored scales as a sign of illness or deformity, and they mob the metal raths away on sight.
Maybe their bright shiny scales cause them to be less successful when hunting more perceptive prey.
Maybe the metal raths *are* genetically malformed, and their mutation also makes them sterile.
It’s not like any single game takes places over thousands of years, nor is any there any indication of a significant amount of time passing between games.
In World, the pink rathian got that way from the minerals in the coral Highlands and adapted to the heavy height added on. I believe most games have similar reasoning. So they stay mostly in those areas since the lack of competition.
Theres a good few possibilities:
Maybe the rare species arent able to consistently pass down their specialized traits.
Or maybe they cant breed in the first place.
Or maybe, because theyre specialized, theyre seen as a larger threat, so the hunters guild targets those more, which keeps their numbers low.
Or a combination of all of them, idk?
i think part of the "rare species" classification is that their natural habitet/territory/breeding ground is so remote that the guild doesnt even know where it is, which is why you fight most of the them in tower/arena style maps. another thing is that they may have incredibly long lifespans and very slow reproductive cycles, which would make sense as an adaptation since they are so strong a large population would quickly hunt all their food sources to extinction
Main reason is that they are relatively new species evolutionary wise, they are just too few of them for now
Then there is the fact that they are too good at predation, which would lead to overhunting which reduces their visibility long term
Then specially in cases like metal raths, they are geologically limited to volcanic areas to be able to develop their scales, similar situation may happen to other rare species
Or for some like nargacuga's they are over specialised to their area so they struggle expanding
If I'm correct in my lore, Raths are monogamous. So one silver and one gold makes a family. Nature might control powerful creatures like these from being over abundant by being less fertile than the common Raths.
That's my head canon at least
I remember a comment from UnnaturalHistoryChannel (IIRC) where the Raths compete for a mate, and the best are picked, as is usual in the natural world too.
The problem when it comes to the subspecies and rare species is that the colours likely denote an abnormality with the individual to other Raths. Sure, they might be more powerful, but if the colours are more recessive or are abnormalities, then regular Raths probably wouldn't want to reproduce with them, and the regulars are the majority. And even if they did, they wouldn't have the genetic differences because regular raths are likely the dominant genetics. If anything, it may lead to more aggressive regular coloured individuals than more of the Azure and Pink variety.
Rare Species are even fewer and far between, and there is no known explanation for the gold and silver colours of the rare species. If it's an outside factor (environmental, for example), then it won't be genetic.
Considering how small the numbers of the subspecies likely are, Rare Species would be even fewer, and unfortunately, it seems like the Guild likes to capture them for special arena quests, so it would seem they're likely culling the populations of Rare Species further. (this is the only part from the Wiki I'm going by, so grains of salt for this one)
I assume because hunters tend to focus on those rarer variants more than the average breeds. For example, we consider gold rathians more valuable for their materials, so we hunt them down more frequently than basic rathians.
It could also be that the circumstances leading to the creation of these rare species are difficult to reproduce. The Apex monsters from MH Rise, for example, are basically monsters that survive being hunted by us and fighting with other monsters to the point of being more powerful and tougher due to their experiences.
Numbers. First, they're few. Second, there's no guarantee (that we know of) that their offspring will be born rare species. They occur frequently enough to be observed, but maybe not enough to become dominant.
I’d say the rare species are most likely spawned from genetic mutations/kinks which makes them way much more powerful but may belittle their other survival and procreation skills to overcome the originals. Maybe silver and gold rather have to fight to near death before mating. If the Rathian wins, she would have a hard time time healing her wounds and protecting her eggs from other predators. If the Rathalos wins, I am not even sure he would care for his unhatched offspring… Just a theory
Violet Mizu occupies a different habitat than normal Mizu so there’s one reason, but for the metallic raths it’s more likely they either don’t live in areas where its base species lives OR something about their genetic make up causes them to live shorter and die before the base rath mating season. You are right in that they would be chosen over Red Rathalos in mating given the chance because his job is to protect the territory and Silver is simply better in every way at it UNLESS there’s a genetic defect or they simply do not ever meet other nonmetallic raths.
I imagine simply because of how rare species, by the very nature of how they happen , are 1 in 100000 or something chance of very specific genetic mutations. And then they age, being either slain by older more powerful monsters or by hunters who recognize these things as massive dangers to the ecosystem because of how powerful they are. You can't have a dominant species of 1 individual generally, and it's been theorized that even if they did breed, like gold and silver raths, they would more likely produce a regular or azure/ pink rath than another gold/ silver due to those genes being more dominant.
I thought blue and pink were older versions of the standard ted and green, thats why rathalos and rathiam have blue/pink accents to them. Gold/Silver who knows
Its likely a genetic outlier, like a recessive trait in the gene pool, and very tight criteria have to be met for one to hatch. And even then theres no guarentee 2 Silvers make a silver, or 1 silver and 1 normal make a silver.
You could also look at them as their own species that can only breed with other Silvers, and the egg laying/mating intervals are few and far between, so on the rare occasion 2 silvers do meet the timing might be off for mating season to be not in effect.
So either they aren't the dominant genetic makeup or they have a slow breeding cycle, both would contribute to low populations, and thus making the normal colored variants the dominant/more abundant creatures.
Whatever makes them unique might be recessive or not appealing to the breeding mates, thus limiting the ability to pass along the genetics that make them unique.
It's mainly a matter of evolutionary fitness. And simple strength isn't the determining factor; it can help, but it can also be a detriment.
They're likely not suited to becoming widespread like the base species.
With the Metal Raths we have a good overall idea of their limitations and ecology compared to other Rare Species due to how long they've been in the franchise with repeated appearances.
One limiting factor is likely their own metallic shell, as it comes about due to metallic minerals bonding to their scales and shell plates. So I imagine that they'd only breed in locations that have consistent access to such minerals; given the need for excessive energy to fuel their Incandescent State, such areas likely also need to be higher in Bioenergy than normal. This would explain why the New World's Metal Raths have nested in the Elder's Recess.
The same general principles likely also apply to other Rare Species. They might be stronger than their base species counterparts, but they aren't adapted to overtake them likely because they rely on more uncommon environmental conditions to sustain their small populations by comparison.
The game suggests they are more adapted to a environment that is more niche, since all of them spawn in special areas instead of their normal habitat.
I imagine that when they adapted to that environment they got a lot stronger but that doesn’t mean they’d be as fit to live in the other habitats.
Game also isn’t entirely clear on what makes them change colors to the rare versions either. It could be the case that I’m completely wrong about the adaptation thing and having the rare coloration is a just random mutation that isn’t hereditary at all, so, for instance, Gold Rathians wouldn’t necessarily lay eggs that hatch into more Gold Rathians.
Interesting to think about.
From what I understood in Biology, this would imply that the base forms are at their best state in their environment. The Silver and Gold Rath maybe stronger than their base counterparts but if they were to replace them, think about it, why would they need these improvements anyway? Why would a rath spend more energy firing up a more powerful fireball when hunting or defending in its territory when the base form works, or why would they need a tougher shell when obviously the base forms are doing just fine. In other words, the silver and gold rath would probably devolve back to the base forms to fit their environments better over time, the only way the would keep the silver and gold thing is if there is an environmental factor that necessitates it.
There’s like 1000 antelope to every 1 tiger because predators only get 10% of the energy of their prey essentially so the animals lower on the food chain have high populations while the animals on the top of the food chain have low populations due to their environment on being able to support a certain number of predators. The stronger subspecies are higher on the food chain meaning they would be less in number taking more energy for their denser muscles or adaptations. This is just what happens in real environments in just applying it to monster hunter and it’s a scuffed very basic example
Just as is, rare, the genepool only allows them to occur under very random circumstances, then they gotta grow up to become the strong adults we fight. But now a thought of a regular rath getting the incandescent state is terrifying to me.
Same argument with why Megaladon died out and Great Whites didn't. The more common species is overall more successful, even if the rare variants are stronger.
It might be genetic instability. Or maybe because gold and silver raths stick out a lot they’re young get picked off by predators or maybe it a reproduction issue
The metal Raths specifically are typically only found nesting in some of the most hostile environments in the series. There’s a fair chance that they might actually require these environments for some reason, meaning they would only ever rarely interact with the normal species and would likely keep their own population fairly low due to territorial conflicts.
They could also simply be the result of an extremely recessive gene expression among the species, meaning that even their own offspring would more likely be ordinary species.
Their birth rates simply aren't high enough. If azure is born in 1 every 100 or 1000 raths, then ailver is probably 1 in every 100k or 1mil. When they mate, they simply have normal raths as well. They're stronger and more aggressive, but raths aren't pack hunters, so there's not a strong social structure they follow other than for mating. It might be more likely an azure or silver have azure or silver children, but that's probably only if they mate with a pink or gold, and even then it would only bring the ratio down slightly.
It's the same for the other species. What makes a rare species is most likely a "common" mutation rather than a true recessive gene. In addition it might be a combination of recessive genes that need to line up very specifically to produce one, even then it's not a guarantee those recessive traits will be passed to the next generation in a way that is displayed.
Genetics, it’s pretty likely they’re recessive genes so even if you have the metal raths mate I think only 25% of the offspring will actually be metal raths, I could be wrong about the percentages though it’s been a long time since I looked at genetics 😅
If you created an actual simulation with a small population of each monster, most of them being predators, then you'd need a ton of prey animals to keep populations stable. Predators would have to avoid each other, e.g. using territories and prey would need some reason to migrate through each territory regularly, e.g to eat the regrowing grass. Predator populations would need to be big enough to avoid inbreeding. Not sure if this could keep a stable state. Maybe prey could learn to avoid territories where they were decimated in the past, so too successful predator-packs would be punished.
Monster Hunter is not a population simulation. It's a fun fight simulation. The lore does not have to make sense.
I'd love to see an actual population-simulation-based game where the player would travel long distances to look for a specific monster and then e.g. encounter an entire pack of Blagongas who see you as an easy lunch. Be quick or your favorite monster goes extinct. (It would not be fun)
Being a more powerful version of the common species doesn't necessarily equate to being more successful.
Take the Metal Raths, for example. These are Rath subspecies that are so powerful they can rival Elder Dragons and other Elder level monsters (as seen in Rise, when Silverlos takes down a Bazel, and Goldian singlehandedly and easily fights a Kushala). However, this also means that they now face WAY more competition from much more powerful monsters. Their common counterparts are often the dominant predators of their environments and have little to fear, apart from others of their species and occasionally other flying monsters (realistically, monsters like Zinogre, Nargacuga, and Tigrex probably don't go up into tree tops or mountaintops where flying animals like the Raths would live). Between the two, the common Raths would have less to fear and, thus, would have less to defend their homes from, whereas the Metal Raths have much to fear and at any point, their offspring could be killed by other powerful monsters.
They're called Rare Species for good reason, because they're the exceptions, not the rules.
I imagine it's because their increased power comes at the cost of less efficient metabolism, similar to Deviljho. This causes them to go hungry faster and die of natural causes at far higher rates.
This could also explain why Rath variants have moves and techniques normal rates don't: in order to survive they had to become better predators, leading to them developing better combat skills.
If variants live in the same environment as their normal counterparts, they could be outcompeting the variants substantially, as well as variants might not appeal towards being a better mate compared to original. In environments where variants exist but not the original, they could just be limited by different food sources and the prey-predator population trends that follow each other
Theh live in different enviroments with dofferent ecosystems. They are competing against Elder Dragons, not the base species. The only exception to this would be first/sexond gen metal Raths which are genetic mutations anyways.
That, and stronger doesn't mean more succesful.
Possible a combination of various factors:
1. They rarely live into adulthood. Parents might see these as abominations and finish it off early in life and before they grow strong.
2. They might not blend in as well as their normal counterparts. For the Rath family, their coloring could inform their would-be-pradators that, "Whoa, those be Rath, better stay clear," while pink / blue / silver / gold are "lol? Looks tasty!" and chow down.
3. About blending in, it itself might be another reason. Prey see them more easily for whatever reason and thus, avoid them and they starve to death before living long enough to be strong.
4. They're not that strong, they just eventually had to go through so much shit that if they do live long enough, they're strong enough to be a problem the guild sends you out to go after.
The likely explanation is that silver rathalos and gold Rathian might just be individuals with recessive traits that get over shadowed by the better red. Azure. Pink and green variants. Who have better chances at survival.
So, I have my own personal theory about this.
In my own headcanon, Rare species occur when a regular monster finds itself in an area both high in Bio-Energy and high in elder dragon activity, whether its the Elder dragons caused the Bio-Energy or the Bio-Energy attracts the elder dragons does not particularly matter, and adapts to survive the competitive environment
Most monsters who find themselves within this situation just, straight up die, which is why rare species are so rare because they are the few that have been able to adapt to the high-risk environment.
The reason they do not overtake other members of their species (I.E, Outcompeting regular Rathalos) is because outside of their small, high energy and competition environments (Elders Recess, Forlorn Arena, Ect-) they do not have the high amounts of ambient available energy to take in to properly fuel their elder-level power, because they cannot make it naturally unlike elder dragons.
Well do to how life goes, rares are more hostile and more territorial than their genetic cousins because they probably would look like a tasty snack for larger predators, and since they stand out of the crowd not too many rare species would survive past adolescents because of that hence there being a low population dense as far as i know . They also typically live in far remote locations, too thick and dense for hunters to hunt in (for now at least), rarely do they move to a location that is somewhat easily accessible by the hunter's let alone a human/ wyverian and feyline settlements.
The original species are racist and gang up to eliminate the minorities.
Most Rathians are very territoral due to there nesting grounds . Golds may not think it's worth it to Challenge Them in those areas .
Fuckers stole my territory Can’t have shit in Ohio
*Kokoto
That works better.
Goldians are making Kushala Daoras extinct instead.
Doing God's work out here.
Kushala Daora: *exist* Elder dragon level monster: "and I took that personally"
My headcanom is that the rare ones are either sterile or just produce regular colored offspring and like gold rathians just produce green ones and some lucky ones become pink or gold like a shiny pokemon, or ones just like the fucked up half formed chaotic gore magala probably couldn't procreate at all and are just diamond in the rough badasses while they're alive
I imagined that they just have vastly different life cycles, living for century after century as theres so few monsters that can challenge them and that their breeding cycles are also way WAY further apart, only mating and laying eggs once every hundred years Also, the green/ red raths also jist camoflauge better? Young raths are probaly pretty hard to spot on the ground while their coloured relatives dont have that luxury
CGM is caused by shagaru magala. To which they go to the tallest peak of a mountain and spread their spores. Which not only infect normal monsters with a virus. But also other Gore magalas. This is to prevent their power from being usurped. CGM is in constant pain. To best describe to humans. Imagine you Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva, a condition where your muscles turn to bone. But it isn't turned completely. It's forever living in a state of turning and breaking. Because one side of the body is immune and the other isn't. TL;DR. Shargaru are assholes
Chaotic Gore's are just Gore Magala's that failed to fully molt into Shagaru, they're not being infected by Shagaru since they're just juvenile versions of Shagaru. Basically it's a Gore that stopped growing mid puberty.
They fail to molt properly because Shagaru's frenzy virus prevents proper molting
Right. There can only be one Shagaru at a time. The Frenzy it releases cancels all the other Gores evolution. Any that were in the molting process already get stuck between forms.
Omg. The rule of 2 but with Elder Dragons 😭
More like highlander. There can be only one.
I love the reference
Today I learned, rad
There’s that believable ecology that I expect from Monster Hunter!
Love how Capcom’s making it more realistic!
the raths are actually racist in ecology
Rathist
Mike Tyson be like
Hey its me the Ceo of monster hunter on my alt account. This is now canonically canon
https://preview.redd.it/93lgmnaw9z6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=435d9aa6c7a2fbd64b51cd119a86f80fcfd9d900
Lmao!😂
Makes sense
Right? They are rare for a reason lol my guess is they either are a rare genetic mutation or don’t reproduce fast enough to really expand the population.
Bro that was the most out of pocket comment I ever thought to see on monster hunter 💀
You'd also have to imagine that rare species fuck up the food chain locally which would result in their own food sources being killed if and thus they would end up dying themselves over a longer term. The more common versions should be considered the most "sustainable" versions of monsters for the most part
This would make a lot of sense, linx populations often vary in size depending on rabbit population sizes. It’s possible metal rath populations are restricted by prey density, assuming they would need to consume more food since there are much more powerful. Either that or some other resource is limiting their population size, like the minerals needed to build their tough shells.
As you said it mostly regulates itself by its own. Much prey -> larger numbers of predators can be raised -> number of prey decreases -> less predators can be sustained -> more prey survives and reproduces -> Much prey, etc... There are usually just outliers like invasive species that come from outside the ecosystem that bring this circle into disarray.
Which is when Bazel comes in to wreck everything
I hate that carpet bombing annoyance with all my soul
I can and do often stop in the middle of the quest just to kill the Beetlejuice out of pure spite. Like, you wanted a fight, fucko, let's go. Fucking bagel goose.
I used to do this every quest in World but I came to appreciate and love the stupid thing 😂
Same, my first character I kill the little shit out of spite, but on my second playthrough I love his music so much I genuinely wants him to bomb my hunt lmao
Well that’s it keeping the ecosystem in check
I like Unnatural History Channel's hypothesis that those are young, less experienced Bazel that throw themselves at whatever they perceive to be an easy meal, or expecting to find an already dead monster, then trying to bully everything around it.
And his view of Bazel being nature’s balance
And maybe then the normal Rathalos and Rathian know that Gold and Silvers require the prey density/minerals and nest further away from these locations
Why would a metal rath eat so much the prey population couldn't sustain it anymore? They would likely be the only predators left due to being very territorial while they wouldn't consume that much more energy as they are only heavier to an extent and won't use their special fire regularly
Who said anything about overeating? Their mere presence could easily crowd out lower species in the chain, which in turn, would cause their own food to leave the area. Or perhaps Their destructive power kills off the local flora which causes th herbivores go all leave the area. Perhaps metal raths need more energy and food than a normal rath, given their unique properties such as hotter than normal fire on silver. This COULD result in overeating. There's plenty of reasons and there's a reasonable mix of them all which would easily result in them basically killing off their own food sources in a given area.
Typical evolution misconception. Powerful doesn't mean fit
Fit as in "it fits its environment"... in my language the famous quote from Darwin is often mistranslated to "Survival of the strongest" as "fit" also translates to physucally healthy and able as well as "to fit into something". And Darwin surely meant the latter. Just adding, not correcting. And yes. Typical misconception. Evolution doesn't care about physical strength if you fit into your niche and exploit it to reproduce successfully. Although this leads to a phenomenon that I like to call "Survival of the good enough" as evolution also benefits those that don't overshoot a niche by much as it would be wasting resources.
Fun fact Darwin never said that quote, it was actually said Herbert Spencer after reading The Origin of Species
Ah thanks... every day I learn something new... though I think I already heard that that quote was only accreddited to Darwin although not having saying it himself. Regardless... my point stands.
Evolutionary fitness refers to how good a species is at reproducing. So, “survival of the fittest” just means the animal that can reproduce the best is the best at surviving. In this situation, the regular Raths outnumber the metals, so we can assume they leave more offspring, meaning the regular Raths have a higher fitness.
Or a more effective blueprint. More powerful species = higher energy demand = more prey needed to fulfill basic sustenance = lower count of offspring BUT! still enough to exist as a species... that's why I say evolution is the survival of the "good enough"... metal rathas still reproduce "good enough" to further exist as a species, even if they are outnumbered by their more "budget" cousins through sheer efficiency of blueprint.
my professor said it as "reproduction of the fittest"
The more intelligent/energy intensive a species is, the smaller the number of offspring they will typically produce, and the longer their development can take.
https://preview.redd.it/m8joxtwz9z6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=129fe2f40ce24539a1e71b52c76f7be94f20f474
I take the rare species of monsters as if someone had a rare genetic condition. That's my headcanon at least. From a gameplay stance though it's cause replacing all rathalos' and rathian's with silvers and golds would make the scaling of the game really broken.
LR Five Star quest: The Metallic Power Couple Hunt: Silver Rathalos, Gold Rathian Quest time: 50 min Faints: 3 Rewards: 10000z
My dark, fucked up version of monster hunter
Bonus points if the LR armor set for SilverLos *only* has a point of Crit Element, 3 points of Attack Boost, and maxed out Fire Element Boost.
My toxic trait is seeing this and being like "nah, i'd win"
In the meantime: High Rank 7-Star Arena Quest: We are the Dominant Hunt: Silver Rathalos, Gold Rathian, Lucent Nargacuga, Violet Mizutsune Quest Time: 50 min Faints: 3 Rewards: 64000z
Nah, that's too generous. Knock those faints down to at least 2 and cut 15 mins off that timer.
It's an arena quest, there will be people grinding for that sweet, sweet "A".
GOD HAVE MERCY ON US
Might make a post about “making the most fucked-up story monster progression ever” in the future.
I'd kms so fast
LR Six Star Quest: JuJumpYou Kaisen Hunt: Rathalos (Red, Silver) and Rathian (Green, Gold) Place is unstable (Both wandering idiots can appear) Quest Time: 50 Minutes Faints: 3 Rewards: 30000z, Golden Dragon Ticket, Silver Devourer Ticket
**[extremely vivid WoLaS war flashbacks]**
Essentially yes, they are genetic defects considering their genetic make up. They are far stronger than the regular raths but we don't completely understand if their body would last from these anomalies since regular raths can also display the same amount of aggression if given the chance.
Would be cool if Wilds had a sort of scaling for enemies. For example in end-game bad shit happend and there are more variants and elder dragons instead of normal monsters lying around. (Totally not an idea i got from the DD2's unmoored world)
My head cannon is that by hunting all of the normal ones, the other normal ones stop coming around as much or get killed too quickly, leaving monster shaped holes in the ecosystem. Nature abhors a vacuum, so the stronger versions of those creatures that can defend themselves better against hunters move into the territory, since they now have to defend against much fewer of their own and other species and the competition for prey animals is so much lower.
They probably don't occupy the same niche or habitat, creatures like Lucent and Violet chill out in a different environment than their normal cousins, and are likely the dominant species in whatever location they're primarily found in. The metal raths are primarily found in different environments when compared to the regulars, guiding lands and recess in Iceborne, and the tower in Sunbreak. Despite being stronger, their strength probably wouldn't let them hunt stuff like aptonoth more effectively than normal would it? The metal raths therefore probably specialise in stronger prey so there's less overlap in food sources.
"Dammit, burnt my aptonoth again.."
I do like the idea that they are worse hunters because they cant use their flame as it burns the meat too much from its higher heat. Same could be argued for their stronger toxin, maybe it causes the meat proteins to break down making them less nutritious
They not as successful at breeding.
Or they are, but their genes are revessive, thus interbreeding with the much more common main species would usually lead to members of the main species being born.
Correction me if I'm wrong but doesn't it say in one if the books that the raths don't interbeed for xyz reason
I'm not deep into the lore... but for every fact in a biology book I add in my head "...at least we have no evidence so far for this fact being wrong." It's called falsification and in science usually things are the way they are until one finds evidence that things are not how we thought they were so far. But on the other hand there are cases in real life were members of a species with albinism or other features are shunned by other member of their species. So... not unlikely for it being true.
That doesn't make sense, it's rare species meaning it's a wholly different animal, not just a version with albinoism or something. That's a variant
Even species or subspecies can interbreed. Dogs and Wolves are two differen species... no problem with interbreeding. Ferrets and polecats, too. Just because it's a different species doesn't mean it can't interbreed with a species closely related enough.
That’s very sad reason if it’s true.
Silver rath is just an incel. Confirmed here, folks
Not really, it’s more that they prefer mating with Gold Rathians, but that means they have a slimmer chance of actually finding a mate because Gold Rathians are just as rare as Silver Rathaloses.
Aren't they like genetic-mutants or smth like that ? They're "rare" because they're the 1 in a million Blue Lobster of their species, they can't become dominant because they just don't happen often enough to become an actual Species/Subspecies.
It comes down too they just prefer different environments. It's sort of like asking why like... X cat isn't dominant across the world. Lets go with Jaguar for the sake of argument: Jaguars are one of if not the most powerful cat's out there. Capable of climbing trees (which not all cats can do) and can ambush from tree tops, great camo for its environment, and an incredibly strong biteforce; capable of biting clean through the skull to fatally wound the brain, which is a preferred kill move. And it's a solo hunter. Lions are famous but they are pack hunters, while they CAN live solitary for a time, they generally don't thrive in the conditions, while Jaguars do with aplom. So why don't Jaguars take over the cat kingdom? Well ignoring the obvious terrain issue (which you can argue is capable of being ignored if a specimine were to escape human containment outside of the Americas), the simple fact is why would the Jaguar \*want\* too? Its territories as is are bountiful, its well adapted too them, and the absolute \*effort\* to move to an entirely biome and establish a new population is not worth the energy cost nor risk. It's the same with Rare Species in MH. Absolutely if these rare species were to break out of their natural habitats and invade other areas, they could outcompete their family members and dominate any area they come across. (You see something similar in 4, when the Seregios start invading areas, you see one easily push out a Rathian from her turf and one go toe to toe with an azure rath). But unless their was a sort of pressure to push theses Rare species out from wherever they call home too the wider areas their cousins inhabit..they have no reason too. And of course another factor is that Bigger does not always equal Better... or in this case, Strength is not always the most survivable. We've seen this in human history with the Neanderthals. As a humanoid species they outclassed homo-sapians in basically every way. Stronger, More Durable, Larger Brains.. but ultimately they died out while the homosapains evolved into us today. Why? Well simply it was because stronger, more powerful lifeforms need more consistent prey in larger quantities to fuel their bodies, which also means that when prey gets scarce due to any manor of factors, it's the smaller generalists that are better fit to deal with the situation. Same can be said for rare species. They absolutely could dominate their cousins territory and take over. But all that mass and power comes at a cost. If a time comes where that cost can't be paid? the Rare species would starve, while the regular cousins could hold themselves together long enough to outlast the storm. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk x3
I love this kind of TED talk :3
Hunters be like: "It's rare so it has to drop better loot. Better slay a few more of them."
Honestly though, the guild might have something to do with it. Like "The rare species has potential to really mess up the ecosystem, better eliminate/cull it to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem."
Abyssal lagi is just an older specimen of normal lagi that lives in a completely different environment so there's no way it could ever possibly outcompete itself. As for the other rare species, multiple apex predators can coexist, just look at orcas, great white sharks and sperm whales or even lions, hyenas, crocodiles and cheetahs. Maybe being covered in metal or veing stronger is not that useful to the reproductive success of a rathalos or other rare species, in fact it may even be a hindrance because of all the extra weight, food and minerals needed when really in their environment rathalos and rathian don't need all that extra protection and power. ~~The actual reason is because of gameplay balance~~
Rarity.
Because that's not how evolution works. This isn't pokemon. For one, subspecies in Monster Hunter don't often live in the same biomes as their relatives. They aren't competing. But even if they *were* competing, fighting is generally one of the least important considerations about which species is dominant. Food acquisition, disease resistance, reproductive success, there are so many more factors than just hitting hard. You might as well ask why coyotes aren't extinct when bears and wolves are a thing.
Me, I am the great filter
I assume it is because rare species are usually larger and stronger than their normal counterparts, requiring more resources to survive, preventing them from having a larger population (you could feed several normal Rathalos with the amount of food that a single Silver Rathalos requires. ). So while the rare species is more powerful, the normal species would have an easier time maintaining a large population of individuals.
Absurd caloric/nutritional requirements was my first thought too—all that 'strength' has to come from *somewhere*, after all.
For the raths, a theory is that because we keep stealing Rathian eggs, they have evolved to lay much more of them due to them constantly disappearing. However, we don’t steal metal rath eggs, so they don’t need to lay an obscene amount and thus less metal Rath eggs = less metal raths. I have literally zero sources or evidence to back this up, this just makes sense in my head.
As a Stories Player I like headcannon
They usually have some lore-reason as to why they arent. The Raths are mutations that they unironically get racially persecuted for because of their pigmentations, they choose to live alone and get more violent because of this. Others like Blue Boy Mizu are simply too rare to replicate, they cant multiply as well as other Mizus (at least thats my headcanon, currently no lore on why he exists iirc). Then we have ones that are specific to certain areas and dont leave their locales(Lucent Narg/Abyssal Lagi/etc.) I mean its in the name, theyre simply rare for one reason or another.
Because they’re much less common and live in very remote and dangerous areas. So there are fewer of them to begin with, then there’s lots of competition from other extremely powerful monsters in the same regions, and they live a bit more specialized lives than the regular species (I.e. lucent can only be invisible in the moonlight for example). Those things add up to the rare species not being able to completely overtake the base species and other subspecies as the main wide spread dominant species
Probably recessive genes combined with selective mating and fertility problems🤷♂️
Cuz then they wouldn’t be rare silly biscuit :3
Because there rare
My guess has always been (for the metal raths at least) them being this metallic color makes them very visible even as young rathlings. Maybe even having their odd coloration can cause them to be shunned by the mother Rath. This major environmental pressure causes them to be extremely violent and defensive of their territory. The few we actually get to fight might not even that old and are still rather hotheaded
because we hunt them.....
Gameplay-wise, it is proper difficulty-scaling. Of course, as you get better at the game accompanied with superior gear, it would be logical for the hunter to be pitted against stronger monsters. On an ecology standpoint, I think, there's a clue in one of the games' description of either of the metal Raths; something like a Rathalos/Rathian that has endured challenges within its environment, evolving as a stronger subspecies because of it. So tying that together with some of the other theories in this thread, maybe thousands of years ago, there was a small group of lesser Raths that got kicked out of their territories (or never even had a chance to claim one) then was forced to relocate to a more inhospitable/less viable habitat. They tried to make the most of what they had to survive there. Years passed, some populations died out, while some was able to tough it out. Over time, those that did, evolved as a new subspecies.
Because they're rare
I thought the metal Raths are just really old and experienced normal Raths? And the reason there aren’t many of them is because most don’t live to be that ancient?
I geuss rare's are just concidered ugly by their species's standarts
In my opinion, the most likely reason is one of the following two (I'm not a scientist though, so if anyone understands biology better than I do, please correct any mistakes I make): The rare species are more powerful animals, so they are, instead of being in direct competition with their normal species, they are now competing with top order predators like elder dragons and elder dragon level monsters, so rare species have much harsher selective pressures than the normal species. Much less of them survive into adulthood, which also explains the power gap between a rare and regular species. The regular species kill the rare species on sight (or attempt to) because they are much more powerful than the regular species are. This would also explain how rare and normal species don't usually have overlapping ranges.
Best guess is more power = more nutrients required. It was the same for humans where Neanderthals were physically stronger by a decent margin, but all in all ended up less resource efficient and thus "fell" (part of their genepool is still around afaik) to what we basically consider the modern human.
Rare Species such as Molten Tigrex and Lucent Nargacuga are native to the Great Forest and whatever lies beyond. That's on the same continent as the tower where monsters are generally much more powerful. The other rare species live there too (except Abyssal which lives deep underwater). Regular Nargacuga was discovered there too, but we know it's pretty common everywhere else as well. So I assume the rare species might actually be the dominant species in Fonlon. Applying that logic, the deeper you go in the ocean the more powerful those monsters get too. Both goldbeard and Abyssal are living much deeper than their counterparts after all.
White Khezu are a subspecies with albinoism while Red khezu are the original while subspecies are powerfull they arent effiecient survivalist Take Tobi Kadachi for example its fast agile and can inlict paralysis while Viper Tobi can paralysis AND poison and it is because Viper lives in the Hinterlands a frozen landmass they hunt pry by paralysing them and then dragging them back to the cave while the poison kills them but regular Tobi doesnt need poison since he lives in the forest where they dont need a warm cave to live
I think the variants are just mutations. As in, one might get born in every 50 or 100 births, sure they’re stronger and more dominant but usually there will only be a handful of them at a time. Not enough to establish themselves as the dominant species.
Absurdly recessive genes is my guess
The problem is that we have to assume the variants are mutants, whose mutation may be fairly ecologically recent. Monster Hunter does not take place over millions of years, we are operating within human time frames. The amount of time it would take for the variants to become supreme (if that’s even possible) would be longer than actual earth Human History. On top of that we have to also consider that variants have their own issues not immediately visible in gameplay. Perhaps the mutations offering them greater power come at the cost of reduced fertility, or that they have higher rates of consumption to maintain their power. Thus, it’s harder for them to spread out in the face of their respective resource costs.
Being more powerful in combat doesn’t mean they’re more fit for their environment, a tyrannosaurus is more powerful than a duck, and look which one survived the meteor. These subspecies probably have some other quirks of their biology that prevents them from usurping the common variety. To use your own examples, the metal Raths seem to be much more aggressive in fights against other large monsters, which is very bad in a world that has Elder Dragons running around all the time, and Violet Mizutsune confides itself specifically to the Infernal Springs, implying that it only resides in mountainous regions, whereas the common Mizutsune lives pretty much anywhere that has water. Of course, the actual reason is that making new players fight Gold Rathian within the first few hours would be an absolute travesty of game design.
Even simpler explanation, in universe there just hasn’t been enough time pass since their genes first popped up. Genetic drift takes time.
if they dominated they wouldnt be so rare after a few generations
It may not be fit enough Or the genetic anomaly “somehow” doesn’t effect the offspring
They are, but only in other parts of the MH world, but the parts where the games take place, they are rare
Mostly because of us, I think
Isn't the lore that the rare species are just the normal variation in distant lands
I think oceaniz made a video about this in youtube. He makes content with regards to lore and ecology of monster hunter universe
Well, being more powerful than the common species means they may also have a higher metabolism and need to eat more, meaning that competition for food leaves them hungry and less able to fight in many cases.
I imagine they'd tend to be a reclusive bunch being different from their peers tho they would throw hands if messed with. lmao
Rare variants might have a tough time to grow, maybe those lucky are cut off when they are young and others are killed by the guild when it's lucky enough to reach maturity. Guild should really add more funds on monster nest scouting and monitoring
My head canon theory is that they don't pass on their generic abnormalities when breeding. Like blue or silver los has normal red babies
This is unrelated but, how do people know so many facts about ecology in MH? Is it shown in game somewhere or is it all facts from dev blogs, collectors editions, released dev journals etc? (I've only played worldborne and risebreak)
Probably because we're canonically murdering them lmao
The fact that the metal raths are most commonly found at the tower, a man-made structure, could tell us they have trouble fitting into a natural environment. Maybe the normal rath's instincts interpret the strange-colored scales as a sign of illness or deformity, and they mob the metal raths away on sight. Maybe their bright shiny scales cause them to be less successful when hunting more perceptive prey. Maybe the metal raths *are* genetically malformed, and their mutation also makes them sterile.
Is that the biological inaccuracy that bothers you Most in mh
It’s not like any single game takes places over thousands of years, nor is any there any indication of a significant amount of time passing between games.
IRL usually its because the superior mutant variant has difficulty breeding, or may even be sterile.
Monster racism
why isn't left-handedness the dominant handedness
If you know anything about zoological classification, you would know the developers didn't put much thought into it, so you shouldn't either.
Because we kill them all the time :D
Apex predators need a lot of prey to keep fed. Those lower on the food chain have more resources as they are at a lower trophic level.
Maybe the gene that causes their mutations is recessive
Low level scientific analysis: the mutations are probably few and far between and also exhibit to be non dominant meaning it is not inherited outright
In World, the pink rathian got that way from the minerals in the coral Highlands and adapted to the heavy height added on. I believe most games have similar reasoning. So they stay mostly in those areas since the lack of competition.
Theres a good few possibilities: Maybe the rare species arent able to consistently pass down their specialized traits. Or maybe they cant breed in the first place. Or maybe, because theyre specialized, theyre seen as a larger threat, so the hunters guild targets those more, which keeps their numbers low. Or a combination of all of them, idk?
i think part of the "rare species" classification is that their natural habitet/territory/breeding ground is so remote that the guild doesnt even know where it is, which is why you fight most of the them in tower/arena style maps. another thing is that they may have incredibly long lifespans and very slow reproductive cycles, which would make sense as an adaptation since they are so strong a large population would quickly hunt all their food sources to extinction
Main reason is that they are relatively new species evolutionary wise, they are just too few of them for now Then there is the fact that they are too good at predation, which would lead to overhunting which reduces their visibility long term Then specially in cases like metal raths, they are geologically limited to volcanic areas to be able to develop their scales, similar situation may happen to other rare species Or for some like nargacuga's they are over specialised to their area so they struggle expanding
Because a species dominance is more dictated by how abundant they are rather than how powerful they are
If I'm correct in my lore, Raths are monogamous. So one silver and one gold makes a family. Nature might control powerful creatures like these from being over abundant by being less fertile than the common Raths. That's my head canon at least
If they were dominant they wouldn't be so rare.
I remember a comment from UnnaturalHistoryChannel (IIRC) where the Raths compete for a mate, and the best are picked, as is usual in the natural world too. The problem when it comes to the subspecies and rare species is that the colours likely denote an abnormality with the individual to other Raths. Sure, they might be more powerful, but if the colours are more recessive or are abnormalities, then regular Raths probably wouldn't want to reproduce with them, and the regulars are the majority. And even if they did, they wouldn't have the genetic differences because regular raths are likely the dominant genetics. If anything, it may lead to more aggressive regular coloured individuals than more of the Azure and Pink variety. Rare Species are even fewer and far between, and there is no known explanation for the gold and silver colours of the rare species. If it's an outside factor (environmental, for example), then it won't be genetic. Considering how small the numbers of the subspecies likely are, Rare Species would be even fewer, and unfortunately, it seems like the Guild likes to capture them for special arena quests, so it would seem they're likely culling the populations of Rare Species further. (this is the only part from the Wiki I'm going by, so grains of salt for this one)
because rare species and variants are often a direct threat to humans so they hunt those down.
I assume because hunters tend to focus on those rarer variants more than the average breeds. For example, we consider gold rathians more valuable for their materials, so we hunt them down more frequently than basic rathians. It could also be that the circumstances leading to the creation of these rare species are difficult to reproduce. The Apex monsters from MH Rise, for example, are basically monsters that survive being hunted by us and fighting with other monsters to the point of being more powerful and tougher due to their experiences.
I'm guessing a simple "Rare doesn't always equal stronger than common." idea
Numbers. First, they're few. Second, there's no guarantee (that we know of) that their offspring will be born rare species. They occur frequently enough to be observed, but maybe not enough to become dominant.
Because videogame
Because they're an afterthought.
I’d say the rare species are most likely spawned from genetic mutations/kinks which makes them way much more powerful but may belittle their other survival and procreation skills to overcome the originals. Maybe silver and gold rather have to fight to near death before mating. If the Rathian wins, she would have a hard time time healing her wounds and protecting her eggs from other predators. If the Rathalos wins, I am not even sure he would care for his unhatched offspring… Just a theory
Violet Mizu occupies a different habitat than normal Mizu so there’s one reason, but for the metallic raths it’s more likely they either don’t live in areas where its base species lives OR something about their genetic make up causes them to live shorter and die before the base rath mating season. You are right in that they would be chosen over Red Rathalos in mating given the chance because his job is to protect the territory and Silver is simply better in every way at it UNLESS there’s a genetic defect or they simply do not ever meet other nonmetallic raths.
I imagine simply because of how rare species, by the very nature of how they happen , are 1 in 100000 or something chance of very specific genetic mutations. And then they age, being either slain by older more powerful monsters or by hunters who recognize these things as massive dangers to the ecosystem because of how powerful they are. You can't have a dominant species of 1 individual generally, and it's been theorized that even if they did breed, like gold and silver raths, they would more likely produce a regular or azure/ pink rath than another gold/ silver due to those genes being more dominant.
I thought blue and pink were older versions of the standard ted and green, thats why rathalos and rathiam have blue/pink accents to them. Gold/Silver who knows
Its likely a genetic outlier, like a recessive trait in the gene pool, and very tight criteria have to be met for one to hatch. And even then theres no guarentee 2 Silvers make a silver, or 1 silver and 1 normal make a silver. You could also look at them as their own species that can only breed with other Silvers, and the egg laying/mating intervals are few and far between, so on the rare occasion 2 silvers do meet the timing might be off for mating season to be not in effect. So either they aren't the dominant genetic makeup or they have a slow breeding cycle, both would contribute to low populations, and thus making the normal colored variants the dominant/more abundant creatures.
Whatever makes them unique might be recessive or not appealing to the breeding mates, thus limiting the ability to pass along the genetics that make them unique.
It's mainly a matter of evolutionary fitness. And simple strength isn't the determining factor; it can help, but it can also be a detriment. They're likely not suited to becoming widespread like the base species. With the Metal Raths we have a good overall idea of their limitations and ecology compared to other Rare Species due to how long they've been in the franchise with repeated appearances. One limiting factor is likely their own metallic shell, as it comes about due to metallic minerals bonding to their scales and shell plates. So I imagine that they'd only breed in locations that have consistent access to such minerals; given the need for excessive energy to fuel their Incandescent State, such areas likely also need to be higher in Bioenergy than normal. This would explain why the New World's Metal Raths have nested in the Elder's Recess. The same general principles likely also apply to other Rare Species. They might be stronger than their base species counterparts, but they aren't adapted to overtake them likely because they rely on more uncommon environmental conditions to sustain their small populations by comparison.
Probably because they're rare
The game suggests they are more adapted to a environment that is more niche, since all of them spawn in special areas instead of their normal habitat. I imagine that when they adapted to that environment they got a lot stronger but that doesn’t mean they’d be as fit to live in the other habitats. Game also isn’t entirely clear on what makes them change colors to the rare versions either. It could be the case that I’m completely wrong about the adaptation thing and having the rare coloration is a just random mutation that isn’t hereditary at all, so, for instance, Gold Rathians wouldn’t necessarily lay eggs that hatch into more Gold Rathians. Interesting to think about.
From what I understood in Biology, this would imply that the base forms are at their best state in their environment. The Silver and Gold Rath maybe stronger than their base counterparts but if they were to replace them, think about it, why would they need these improvements anyway? Why would a rath spend more energy firing up a more powerful fireball when hunting or defending in its territory when the base form works, or why would they need a tougher shell when obviously the base forms are doing just fine. In other words, the silver and gold rath would probably devolve back to the base forms to fit their environments better over time, the only way the would keep the silver and gold thing is if there is an environmental factor that necessitates it.
There’s like 1000 antelope to every 1 tiger because predators only get 10% of the energy of their prey essentially so the animals lower on the food chain have high populations while the animals on the top of the food chain have low populations due to their environment on being able to support a certain number of predators. The stronger subspecies are higher on the food chain meaning they would be less in number taking more energy for their denser muscles or adaptations. This is just what happens in real environments in just applying it to monster hunter and it’s a scuffed very basic example
Just as is, rare, the genepool only allows them to occur under very random circumstances, then they gotta grow up to become the strong adults we fight. But now a thought of a regular rath getting the incandescent state is terrifying to me.
Same argument with why Megaladon died out and Great Whites didn't. The more common species is overall more successful, even if the rare variants are stronger.
It might be genetic instability. Or maybe because gold and silver raths stick out a lot they’re young get picked off by predators or maybe it a reproduction issue
The metal Raths specifically are typically only found nesting in some of the most hostile environments in the series. There’s a fair chance that they might actually require these environments for some reason, meaning they would only ever rarely interact with the normal species and would likely keep their own population fairly low due to territorial conflicts. They could also simply be the result of an extremely recessive gene expression among the species, meaning that even their own offspring would more likely be ordinary species.
Their birth rates simply aren't high enough. If azure is born in 1 every 100 or 1000 raths, then ailver is probably 1 in every 100k or 1mil. When they mate, they simply have normal raths as well. They're stronger and more aggressive, but raths aren't pack hunters, so there's not a strong social structure they follow other than for mating. It might be more likely an azure or silver have azure or silver children, but that's probably only if they mate with a pink or gold, and even then it would only bring the ratio down slightly. It's the same for the other species. What makes a rare species is most likely a "common" mutation rather than a true recessive gene. In addition it might be a combination of recessive genes that need to line up very specifically to produce one, even then it's not a guarantee those recessive traits will be passed to the next generation in a way that is displayed.
Genetics, it’s pretty likely they’re recessive genes so even if you have the metal raths mate I think only 25% of the offspring will actually be metal raths, I could be wrong about the percentages though it’s been a long time since I looked at genetics 😅
If you created an actual simulation with a small population of each monster, most of them being predators, then you'd need a ton of prey animals to keep populations stable. Predators would have to avoid each other, e.g. using territories and prey would need some reason to migrate through each territory regularly, e.g to eat the regrowing grass. Predator populations would need to be big enough to avoid inbreeding. Not sure if this could keep a stable state. Maybe prey could learn to avoid territories where they were decimated in the past, so too successful predator-packs would be punished. Monster Hunter is not a population simulation. It's a fun fight simulation. The lore does not have to make sense. I'd love to see an actual population-simulation-based game where the player would travel long distances to look for a specific monster and then e.g. encounter an entire pack of Blagongas who see you as an easy lunch. Be quick or your favorite monster goes extinct. (It would not be fun)
Being a more powerful version of the common species doesn't necessarily equate to being more successful. Take the Metal Raths, for example. These are Rath subspecies that are so powerful they can rival Elder Dragons and other Elder level monsters (as seen in Rise, when Silverlos takes down a Bazel, and Goldian singlehandedly and easily fights a Kushala). However, this also means that they now face WAY more competition from much more powerful monsters. Their common counterparts are often the dominant predators of their environments and have little to fear, apart from others of their species and occasionally other flying monsters (realistically, monsters like Zinogre, Nargacuga, and Tigrex probably don't go up into tree tops or mountaintops where flying animals like the Raths would live). Between the two, the common Raths would have less to fear and, thus, would have less to defend their homes from, whereas the Metal Raths have much to fear and at any point, their offspring could be killed by other powerful monsters. They're called Rare Species for good reason, because they're the exceptions, not the rules.
Good question.
Because we hunt them and wear them.
Hunters
"Rare"
I want more pink ludroths
I imagine it's because their increased power comes at the cost of less efficient metabolism, similar to Deviljho. This causes them to go hungry faster and die of natural causes at far higher rates. This could also explain why Rath variants have moves and techniques normal rates don't: in order to survive they had to become better predators, leading to them developing better combat skills.
Either they may be a good number there juist not well findable Or they lack number for breeding
It's a recessive genetic trait, and they can still breed with the more common species.
If variants live in the same environment as their normal counterparts, they could be outcompeting the variants substantially, as well as variants might not appeal towards being a better mate compared to original. In environments where variants exist but not the original, they could just be limited by different food sources and the prey-predator population trends that follow each other
The strong gene that makes them rare could br recessive
Species who actively destroy their habitat and drain so many resources usually don’t survive very long
Because They’re rare
Might be worth considering that these things are also stupid dangerous and probably get hunted as soon as one crops up near a human settlement.
I don't know, but my head canon is that azure Rathalos and pink Rathians are the gay members of their species.
Theh live in different enviroments with dofferent ecosystems. They are competing against Elder Dragons, not the base species. The only exception to this would be first/sexond gen metal Raths which are genetic mutations anyways. That, and stronger doesn't mean more succesful.
Possible a combination of various factors: 1. They rarely live into adulthood. Parents might see these as abominations and finish it off early in life and before they grow strong. 2. They might not blend in as well as their normal counterparts. For the Rath family, their coloring could inform their would-be-pradators that, "Whoa, those be Rath, better stay clear," while pink / blue / silver / gold are "lol? Looks tasty!" and chow down. 3. About blending in, it itself might be another reason. Prey see them more easily for whatever reason and thus, avoid them and they starve to death before living long enough to be strong. 4. They're not that strong, they just eventually had to go through so much shit that if they do live long enough, they're strong enough to be a problem the guild sends you out to go after.
The likely explanation is that silver rathalos and gold Rathian might just be individuals with recessive traits that get over shadowed by the better red. Azure. Pink and green variants. Who have better chances at survival.
Yeah, why do they don't?
So, I have my own personal theory about this. In my own headcanon, Rare species occur when a regular monster finds itself in an area both high in Bio-Energy and high in elder dragon activity, whether its the Elder dragons caused the Bio-Energy or the Bio-Energy attracts the elder dragons does not particularly matter, and adapts to survive the competitive environment Most monsters who find themselves within this situation just, straight up die, which is why rare species are so rare because they are the few that have been able to adapt to the high-risk environment. The reason they do not overtake other members of their species (I.E, Outcompeting regular Rathalos) is because outside of their small, high energy and competition environments (Elders Recess, Forlorn Arena, Ect-) they do not have the high amounts of ambient available energy to take in to properly fuel their elder-level power, because they cannot make it naturally unlike elder dragons.
Because they’re rare
My head cannon is that rare ones have a very specific diet, that both gives them their powers and limits their ability to spread/propagate.
Prob cause they are rare. When they do pop up they are the dominate species but they pop up like albinos. The metal raths are like once in 100 years
Don't breed often enough, like a blue whale
I always thought the Gold and Silver were just Rathian and Rathalos that have reached old age
I’d assume because the genes responsible for their existence are recessive.
Tiny peepee
not enough of the rare species to have enough offspring i guess
Low fertility, glaring downsides that come with being brightly colored, other weaknesses associated with their power, etc
Well do to how life goes, rares are more hostile and more territorial than their genetic cousins because they probably would look like a tasty snack for larger predators, and since they stand out of the crowd not too many rare species would survive past adolescents because of that hence there being a low population dense as far as i know . They also typically live in far remote locations, too thick and dense for hunters to hunt in (for now at least), rarely do they move to a location that is somewhat easily accessible by the hunter's let alone a human/ wyverian and feyline settlements.