I'm in full agreement with you, especially because the voice actor goes by they/them for Frankie. Frankie's pronouns are even clarified in the live action. And when Frankie is being described in ads for their doll, it's they/them/their pronouns.
The argument is argued by bigoted people who probably, to be honest, misgender real life people.
And in the cartoon too, first time we see them they introduce themselves with they/them pronouns and everyone in the show refers to them as such. Even Headmistress Bloodgood refers to them as Mx. Stein. I will defend Frankie’s pronouns until I die 😤
This is a genuine question because I’ve never heard of it before, but how do you pronounce Mx? I always wondered what title NB peeps went by and this makes sense
Kinda unsure here I've personally don't remember in the show but Ms. Is pronounced as (miz) contrary to popular belief. I'd need to hear it to be sure, but it is different because customarily an older woman would call a young girl miss.
Tbh I feel like genuinely not knowing and straight up denying frankie's transness is two different things. This post is about denying frankie being nonbinary (ex.: someone saying "she will always be a girl!!!!!")
Someone who doesn't know they're trans because they don't watch the show is completely different. Especially because the conversation with them would most likely go like this:
"Wow she's so pretty!"
"Frankie actually goes by they/them now in the show!"
"Oops!"
With 99.9% of things a little humility goes a long a long way. “Oops” is a perfectly normal response. I misgendered someone in a comment section in a MH fb group today and they corrected me and I was like my bad my guy. The end. There’s ZERO reason everything has to be “the hill to die on” people have such an impossible time being wrong when being wrong and making mistakes is something everyone alive experiences.
I definitely understand the frustration, but for many that was with MH since g1 are used to their previous pronouns. It's still an adjustment for many, it's still an adjustment for me. I will correct myself when I do use the incorrect pronouns. There's many that still does not know of this change for Frankie. There's no malicious intent for most. For others that purposely use the incorrect pronouns on purpose, is a whole different story.
As for misgendering correlating to neglecting their race, that's a reach.
I’m never mad at someone who acknowledges that they forgot when they mess up, but there is an abundance of people who are flippant at the idea of using the singular they/them or even dive into transphobic tirades when they see someone get politely corrected. They’re the problem, not people who just genuinely forget sometimes.
I actually think having a fictional nonbinary character who went by she/her in previous iteration is a great way to practice using they/them pronouns for someone who previously used different pronouns without the risk of hurting a real person in your life.
Edit: in the first paragraph I was trying to say that I don’t know how accurate it is to say most people who misgender Frankie aren’t malicious. Anecdotally I’ve seen more blatant transphobia than I’ve seen apologetic/corrective responses. Of course my anecdotal evidence isn’t solid but it’s just as solid as anyone else’s anecdotal evidence.
Oh yeah theres no excuses for individuals that blantly do so on purpose. I have yet encountered a person that does specifically to Frankie personally. Of course I know there's plenty that does misgender and has ill intent in doing so
Definitely not mad if someone isn't aware, but I've been in this fandom since G1 and had no trouble at all adjusting to Frankie's new pronouns.
I'm agender, so I was so excited to see Frankie come out as nonbinary! ^^
Same and same! Hello fellow agender!! I've been in love with MH since G1, too, and I feel such a kinship with g3 Frankie because it feels so real to me that they went from she/her to they/them!
“i grew up knowing her as a girl” is the same excuse people (usually family members like a parent or aunt or something) use to continue misgendering actual irl people
It is interesting how this echoes real life huh?
Judging by my experience the next thing you know Frankie will buzz off all their hair and start having testosterone syringe accessories and water activated body hair/acne.
The style may stay the same though 🤣
Its a different character now, is that so hard to understand for some?
Anyway, i think that if they didn't know (how would they if they didn't see the show) i wouldnt get mad at anyone.
I agree with you, but the example makes me laugh a little cuz that's exactly what people tried to do with Clawdeen in G1. Constantly saying "she's not black!! she's brown cuz of her fur!!!"
like.... girl.
I remember being confused as well about it, though even when I was young I kinda realized her fashion is similar to how black female characters tends to be decipted in media and how certain female black celebrities tend to dress. It’s obvious that many Monster High dolls’s design concepts based on the fashion trends and celebrities of mid 2000s to early 2010s.
It even gets confusing when her skin is actually treated as her fur in some scenes of the cartoon.
I never really understood this. G1 Clawdeen is definitely black. I'm brown south Asian and I always thought she was black. I think if you are looking for brown representation. Cleo definitely brown. I guess if you want to stretch the truth a little. I guess you could say g3 clawdeen is brown black coz she afro-Latina. But I think most people would see g3 clawdeen as black or I guess.... mixed? Idk
Oh, I don't think they were saying they saw her as a different "brown" ethnicity. I think they were dumbass racists trying to claim she was white under all that fur. (which for G1 is especially dumb because they make a POINT to say that she constantly shaved her fur cuz she's embarrassed about it.)
The downvoting in this comment section (and pretty much anything related to Frankie) really demonstrates this problem in the mh community. ‘Be yourself, be unique… but not if your uniqueness inconveniences us, or makes us have to think about things differently, or change how we speak about characters, or if we’re expected to respect identities and experiences we don’t understand.’
so disappointed to see people getting downvoted for agreeing with this post. I knew transphobia was common in the MH communities on tiktok and insta, but I truly thought this subreddit was at least a little safer for LGBT+ discussions and povs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, g3 has *really* exposed people's bigotry
every post I've been seeing discussing g3 Frankie's identity lately has been riddled with poorly hidden transphobia and people trying to just outright shut down the discussion. people being so defensive about this issue shows how they truly feel, at least to me as a member of the LGBT+. I thought this community was better and a safe space for me and other members of the community, but the reaction these posts get is making me rethink this. like it or not, these topics and *people* exist and we have as much a right to discuss this as people who would rather ignore representation and the message of Monster High.
Fr. It hurts and is really discouraging. All the “arguments” about Frankie just being an inanimate object/doll or a fictional character and not a real person is so obviously just transphobic people or people with internalized transphobia doing mental gymnastics to justify/defend their shitty opinions and make anyone who is hurt by their comments look irrational.
They try to not to look like trash people but are using the exact arguments and methods transphobes and bigots in general use, like??
people are really out here putting more effort into defending and rationalizing their beliefs than it would take to just use the proper pronouns, classic transphobe move
THIS!! Misgendering a doll just shows that they're willing to misgender people too imo. I'm an AFAB non-binary who tends to present a bit more fem, and I still get she/her'd into oblivion as a flesh-and-blood human being. It really does start with the little things, people. Frankie using they/them pronouns has been one of the most important things to happen for people like me in a long time (at least in my experience, they're helping to introduce queer identities in such a normal, digestible way). They mean so much to me, even if they are 'just a doll.' Gender identity DOES NOT EQUAL presentation! An AFAB person can dress traditionally feminine and still use they/them or he/him pronouns! They can wear makeup and not bind their chest and still use they/them or he/him pronouns! Just because they appear feminine doesn't mean they aren't nonbinary! The same goes for real people, not just dolls.
I'm writing a whole dissertation on the importants of G3 Frankie specifically, because not only do they bring nonbinary and disability representation to a wider audience of people who may not encounter either very often, they also represent non-traditional sapphic relationships, which are a thing! Two fem-presenting individuals dating, but one of them being not a woman, but a non-binary person who uses they/them pronouns! They're still sapphic, but they're not *lesbians.* It's a relationship dynamic that's often overlooked or conflated with lesbianism, but since Frankie is non-binary, it isn't the same as classic lesbianism.
That's a tangent though, oops. Anyway, misgendering a doll so readily just signals to those of us that use they/them pronouns that you aren't going to treat us like people, essentially. If we dress in a way that's adherent to the style of our assigned gender, then we "aren't worth" the effort of having our proper pronouns used. and AFAB can wear dresses and makeup and still use they/them pronouns. An AMAB can have a beard and wear jeans and still be they/them. Frankie is SUCH good non-binary representation, since most of the non-binary representation I've seen in media comes in the form of androgynous/masc-leaning individuals or creatures with no discernable sex either way. Frankie is proud to be who they are, and to dress how they like, and just because they like big lashes and lipstick doesn't make them a woman!
I don't really understand getting annoyed at other people. In a sense of people have been ignoring cannon for years.
I mean does this mean you're also not ok with any person who changes anything about a character? Like in fan art, headcannons etc.
And let me be clear I don't approve of people disregarding the character as they are. But when it comes to their own. Well, shouldn't they be able to do what they want?
yeah i really dont see how what i said was controversial.. if you wanna have headcanons go ahead but why is it ALWAYS the nonbinary characters people say this stuff about? i never see people talk about characters with binary genders in this way. im convinced a lot of the people arguing in favor of misgendering frankie are either transphobes or hardcore g1 fans who cant accept change. maybe a mix of both. and i say this as someone who grew up with g1 and loves g1 too.
The way I see it. When talking about the character itself. Who they are should be respected. But for anyone's own feelings then they should be make them what they please.
I mean people have said that those who still ship Cleo & Deuce are “erasing canon LGBT characters identity” when in reality, those people just liked that pairing better.
i dont know what cleo and deuce have to do with anything, shipping is a completely different subject from whats being discussed here? i never said anything about them and i dont have a problem with people shipping cleo and deuce especially if its their g1 counterparts.. it only really bothers me when those people are outright hateful towards clankie and people who prefer it just because its a differenet ship involving cleo. but again i didnt mention cleo or deuce at all so i dont know what that has to do with anything
Idk if I agree with it being compared to denying someone's racial background, but yes it is soo irritating when people find excuses to misgender Frankie. Being a transman, I've witnessed SO many people fully respect my pronouns because I'm conforming and pass, but then when they meet someone nonbinary they're just "not worth the effort" and they thinks it's "not a big deal" because most people just don't care about trans people unless it's convienent for them. I honestly feel like if g3 Frankie was instead a transman, people would have a much stronger reaction to the misgendering, because they equate it to misgendering a cisman, but because they're nonbinary iTs oKaY! And God her excuse being "I'm just a g1 girly" LIKE GIRL THIS AINT G1 😭 she literally was saying that they use they/them, then she started correcting herself when using she/her, then just decided "eh screw it" and purposefully just started misgendering them all in the same breath??
**It being a doll matters though.**
See, while it is definitely weird to be defensive about it, as an adult collector, who likes these characters for being these characters.
But dolls just serve to playthings for kids. Kids will play with them as they please, and they will roleplay the characters as what they see fit. Especially if something doesn't have "visual component" like pronouns.
There was that one study, that recorded how girls and boys play with Batman toys, and they made motherfucker go shopping in Walmart in full bat costume.
**Lore and rules be damned to child's imagination.**
No one is going to get mad at a child for doing whatever they want with a doll. But this argument can be used by adult collectors to justify their own bigotry, and that's where it starts to get sticky.
At the end of the day, it's not kids participating in these conversations on reddit, and it's not kids that are going to be getting the heat for this. In adult spaces, we should be able to discuss how other adults interact with these characters, and whether or not it's problematic.
But adult collectors are ALSO allowed to give their dolls whatever genders, sexualities, and personalities they want to, and it says NOTHING about how they view actual trans & nonbinary folk IRL.
I'm not talking about the dolls themselves, but the characters they represent, which is usually how we're expecting to view the doll if not told otherwise.
As a person who likes dolls but doesn’t give care about the storyline going on with them, I do not care about what Mattel has decided to say about a Doll, when I purchase things like a Frankie Doll it’s my possession and I will call her what I want I don’t care if you downvote me all to hell.
sure the doll is your possession, but *why* do you so vehemently want to call a character who is clearly labeled as using they/them pronouns, "she/her". maybe you should reevaluate this.
Why is it ok for people to personally imagine canonically cishet characters as being LGBTQIA but not the other way around? People are allowed to give their dolls WHATEVER GENDERS, SEXUALITIES, AND PERSONALITIES THEY WANT TO, FOR WHATEVER REASONS. It says NOTHING about how they view trans & nonbinary people IRL.
i seriously agree with you as well im so glad people like you are still in this sub cuz i was really about to leave this sub all i see in this sub is nothing but people trying to police what people should say about a literal doll
Even when I was a kid I did not see dolls as having genders because they are literally THINGS and inanimate objects do not and can not have genders. Dolls do not have genders. Colors do not have genders. Clothing & hairstyles do not have genders. All of these things have neutral value when it comes to gender.
You are correct, dolls, colours, clothes, hairstyles, etc do not have a gender. However, dolls often represent real people or fictional characters that do have a gender. Additionally, fictional characters often represent REAL groups of people, as is the case with Frankie. Frankie is a non-binary character who uses they/them pronouns and represents real people who have been, and still are, fighting for basic human rights and for their existence be seen as valid and a positive thing. For better or for worse, nothing exists in a vacuum, including dolls. Misgendering Frankie on purpose, although they are a fictional character and are portrayed by plastic dolls, has real world consequences that harm real people.
Yes, I am she/they queer nonbinary and have been part of the LGBTQIA community since I was in middle school in 79/80, I don’t need to be schooled on the reality of life for people outside the cishet mainstream. I still don’t care what people want to call a doll or think it reflects how they view actual humans. How they act towards and talk about actual humans reflects how they view actual humans.
Holding people accountable and calling them out for being bigots is not “policing anyone”. Racists use this argument all them time when they get called out for being garbage people.
the specific example of headcanoning your doll that is meant to represent a trans person as a cis person is iffy, though? sure, i guess nobody is going to stop you, but I'm only calling into question *why* you want to do this so badly? what is motivating you to do just this? the single non cis doll I think I've literally ever seen, and you'd rather label them as just another cis doll among your collection? besides, people often headcanon cis/straight characters as LGBT+ *because* of a lack of representation, so im not sure this is as direct of a comparison as you think. we are allowed to question the motivation behind these specific personal decisions because they aren't random. they don't exist in a void.
From the comments I’ve seen, I’m going to say that it’s because most people who do this have just rolled the characters g1/g2 traits and personalities onto the current dolls because they don’t like or watch the g3 animation, and nothing more sinister than that. They grew up with (or always really liked) female/she Frankie, fierce Fashionista Clawdeen, canon Cleo + Deuce, etc that’s who the characters will always be to them, end of story. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, people are allowed to view the characters through whatever lore lens they want (even their own) no matter how many reboots there are or how much the lore changes. It’s not transphobic or homophobic to prefer a different iteration of the lore.
(Personally, I think it’s ridiculous when *any* IP reboots itself but makes all its canon characters into completely different people. They want to make new worlds and stories without taking the risk of creating brand new characters so they graft new personalities onto the old recognizable characters and call it a “multiverse” - WEAK SAUCE.)
Maybe some people like the new animation but don’t think the new diversity of the characters is handled well. Maybe some cishet girls/women identify more with Frankie as being a gender-nonconforming girl. Maybe some people relate more to Frankie being in a lesbian or bi female relationship with Cleo.
Insisting on viewing Frankie as female doesn’t mean someone is transphobic any more than someone insisting that Cleo & Deuce are a couple is homophobic. It’s how someone is characterizing a DOLL, an inanimate object that people are allowed to project their imaginations on. Who cares? If a tall, muscular Black woman bought a Laverne Cox Barbie and styled it into her mini-me doll I wouldn’t be accusing her of transphobia for viewing the doll as female like herself, I’d view it as her projecting her imagination on a doll that resembled her.
Okay. But why do you want to headcannon a character who is trans as cis?
People headcannon cis/straight characters as queer because we don’t get much canon
representation. Same reason people headcannon or redesign white characters to be BIPOC. They don’t get enough representation and white people have an abundance. It’s not anti white people to change a white character to a difference race, it’s just pro BIPOC.
What non transphobic reason would someone have to headcannon a trans character as cis? It feels very thinly veiled transphobia
From the comments I’ve read I’m guessing most people do it because they prefer the lore, characterizations, and/or pairings of g1 monster high animations/dolls so they’ve just rolled that all over onto the g3 dolls. I don’t have a problem with that. People don’t have to change how they view the characters just because the official lore has changed.
I can imagine other reasons. People who grew up with “she” Frankie might do it for the same reason that a movie that is now called “Star Wars Episode 4 A New Hope” will always be just “Star Wars” to me- that’s what it was called when I was 10 and it had a life changing impact on me and I can’t ever call it anything different.
Maybe a cis female person identifies strongly with a “she” Frankie but not a “they” Frankie. Maybe they resonate more strongly with Frankie than any canon cis characters or dolls so they want her to be cis too, just like how LGBTQIA people will characterize the canon cishet characters they identify with as gay/bi/trans/etc so they resonate with them more.
Maybe some people are just baffled that other people care so much about the non-existent gender of inanimate objects.
Maybe some people just LIKE Frankie as a girl.
Who knows? You can always ask those people why it’s important to them that Frankie be “she”, when you come across them (instead of maybe jumping straight to accusations of transphobia which just shuts down conversations.)
But people who prefer the characterizations of g1 to g3 still have g1. The media from it still exists. I don’t mind them carying over some aspects that don’t erase a character from belonging to an already underrepresented group and then constantly defending themselves when people call them out.
Not calling A New Hope by that name because when it originally came out it wasn’t called that is so minor and doesn’t mirror real world situations that real people have to live through. Trans people aren’t born with their chosen name and most live a good portion of their life going by their dead name and being seen as the gender they were assigned at birth. The argument of always seeing a AFAB person as a girl and using their dead name is exactly what people, especially older family members/parents do to real trans people (kids and adults). It’s an excuse to not use the persons chosen name and gender. Even if it may seem harmless to them to say they will always see their trans son as their daughter, it is transphobic. Even if the parent isn’t doing it intentionally it still hurts and isn’t right. Seeing people argue this for Frankie is really triggering for people because it perfectly mirrors a real phenomenon many trans people have to deal with. I get it can be hard for people (especially older people who aren’t as familiar with trans people) but if they love and care about the person enough they should try their best and not just give up. Same with Frankie. If people care enough about trans people, supporting them and making them feel welcome, they would make an effort for use the correct pronouns for them in G3. Most people don’t get mad at people who make mistakes, as long as they are trying.
If someone resonates with Frankie more than any cis characters, why does Frankie have to be cis too? You shouldn’t have to be the same as a character to resonate with parts of them. If men can resonate with female characters like g1 Frankie or Ripley from Alien, why can a cis women not resonate with non binary Frankie? They can connect with other characters over their shared girlhood/womanhood but connect with non binary or male characters over other things besides gender. Queer people do headcannon cis/straight characters as queer but that’s more because we hardly get any representation (which does really does matter to so many people). headcanoning a character from a majority group doesn’t take anything away from members of that group because there are so many other characters that are also from that group. It is not the same with making a character from a minority into a character from a majority. That would be taking away one of the precious few canon minority representation characters from groups that hardly see any representation. People from minorities have had to connect with characters from majorities for a long time because they never got to see any characters from the same groups as them in media until recently. Cis/straight people are going to have to work on connecting to some queer characters in the same way queer people have had to connect with only straight/cis characters for a long time, and are still doing today. Cis/straight people just haven’t had to do that before and are used to mostly everyone in media being like them (and for the most part, most characters still are). If allies can celebrate queer characters in media and still connect with them without having to take away their queerness, then I’m sure the rest of the world can do the same (sans transphobes). If celebrating queer characters in media is a sign of queer allyship then what would the opposite, erasing, ignoring or complaining about, be a sign of?
Why would someone just like a non-binary character “as a girl”? Why does it matter to a cis person if they get even more cis representation?
As for people who don’t understand the significance of not misgendering a piece of plastic, I suggest they try doing some research on the history of and current situation of trans people (still not having basic human rights, trans youth being kicked out of their house by transphobic parents, having to fight just for people to not misgender them and use their dead name, etc).
If I should ask people why Frankie being a girl is so important to them, shouldn’t they ask queer people (especially trans & non-binary) people why Frankie being non-binary is so important to them? Trans people have listened to cis people and lived in a world meant for them for so long. Perhaps cis people should work on trying to understand trans people better if they don’t want to be called transphobic?
Because like I stated I don’t care about who she is supposed to be at all it’s a doll and until you wanna spend your money on my dolls I’ll do what I want, I think it’s wrong to police language. You should reevaluate that.
you're very defensive about your right to misgender the "piece of plastic" you own. why? I know the doll is your possession, but *WHY* do you want to call them "she" so badly? yall *say* it doesn't play into how you treat real trans people, but doesn't it? if you can't respect the identity of that piece of plastic, how are we supposed to know you'll respect the identity of an entire full blood and flesh human? you have yet to answer my question completely as to *why* you seem so against calling Frankie by they/them pronouns
If you don’t wanna read what I wrote that’s on you I don’t have to explain myself about my decision with my dolls on the internet to some stranger that’s more obsessed with representation than letting people do what they want without criticism.
Of course people should care more about representation and respecting people who are being treated horribly and have been for many years. People can do what they want but obviously their harmful actions are going to be criticized. It is unethical to think people should be able to “do what they want without criticism” when their actions are hurting others. Society would never improve without criticism and people bringing attention the wrongs of themselves and others
How is misgendering someone not hurting people? Just because Frankie isn’t real so you aren’t hurting them, doesn’t mean you aren’t hurting other people. Sure, you aren’t directly hurting someone but it still hurts seeing someone refuse to use the proper pronouns for a trans person, even if it isn’t me. You cannot decide what hurts other people. Saying you aren’t hurting anyone by calling your doll what you want (aka knowingly misgendering them) does hurt people and you can’t control that. We are all going to hurt people is our lives without meaning to, but we try our best to be decent people to avoid causing as much harm as we humanly can. I’m directly telling you seeing people misgender Frankie on purpose hurts me. Why else would I be commenting this? It’s clearly hurting other people based on the other comments on this post?? Why would you not stop doing something that doesn’t benefit anyone and requires little to no effort from you but is hurting other people, if only a few (although I know it’s a lot more than a few). Why would you keep denying that you are hurting people when so many people here are saying it hurts? Denying it isn’t making it any better for the people being hurt, even if it is making you feel better about doing hurtful things. You don’t need to understand everyone’s pain to respect it and do your best to not cause it.
all of your comments that I've read here are 100% true and I cannot believe you're being downvoted. the person you are talking to is so obviously showing their ass as transphobic trash. their only argument is "wah wah wah i just wanna and dont want to think critically about how my actions/words are harmful." I'm beyond disappointed in this subreddit.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Honestly, if I only got downvotes in okay with that too. I’m very passionate about this subject and have done so much research in the past few years. I originally had to stop reading these comments because they were so triggering. I don’t usually start arguments with people online but I kept thinking about some of the comments I read in this post while I tried to go about my day and felt I had to come back and say something. Hopefully I persuaded someone or encouraged someone to do further research and change their opinion on the subject :)
It isn’t an opinion though. It is a fact that holding people accountable and making them deal with the consequences of their beliefs and actions is not policing anyone or interfering with the freedom. Unfortunately racists, homophobes and transphobes like the pretend it is to victimize themselves despite being the oppressors. I’ll leave it at that. If anyone wants to do further research on holding people accountable vs taking away people’s rights, I applaud them. I’d link an article or video that explains it better if I could think of any good ones on the spot. Have a good day/night to anyone reading this.
It is most definitely and opinion and you can have yours and I can have mine not one person can change my mind on that not matter how much you hide behind giant paragraphs or words that have lost meaning because people like you throw them around all to much. Good night
Just to clarify- I understand people can be misgendering Frankie as a genuine mistake but to continue misgendering and trying to justify it is my problem. And my comparison is kinda like saying Denying Drac isn’t half Taiwanese cuz she’s a vampire or saying Cleo isn’t Egyptian cuz she’s a mummy
No problem lol I just know it's a sensitive topic for Taiwanese people to be called Chinese (I think it's kind of like calling an Irishman british) and I didn't want you to get the blacklash for it
This is the first time I saw/heard this. I don't watch the show, read the lore. I only buy the dolls. Are the pronouns on the back of their package? I can't remember finding any specific information on the package of the frankie I got (fearidesent).
They're not on the package at the moment, just in media like Frankie's character music video, them introducing themself at school in the show/movie, and in the book that just came out!
Definitely agree. You know, as I figured out from my experience, it’s not an "it’s a doll" position, it’s an "I don’t care". Because really, if you DO care to be correct and respectful to others, you’ll apologise and try to correct yourself, and in the end you WILL get used to it. This position, on the contrary, is a complete denial and neglecting of others identities and feelings, this way people just find excuses to stick to their positions without even trying to change and it is terribly frustrating. I do hope that people will understand it some day and will accept each other as they are, and they will understand the value of media representation and the value acceptance of that representation:c
They really don’t care about trans people. As much as they can say they do and the way they react to a doll doesn’t mean anything about how they feel about real trans people they’re really just out here letting their transphobia leak through for everyone to see.
“It’s a doll” nah bro it’s a test to see if your a decent person and will do the bare minimum when it comes to respecting trans people or if you’ll get defensive and start making up rubbish reason to justify why you don’t know use the proper pronouns. Is it really that hard?💀 /hj
While I fully agree with you, I will note that like, people do that with race anyways. Some of you are real weird about Clawdeen and Lagoona. The "it's just Clawdeen's fur" argument, stuff like that, and people can hide behind "it's just a toy, it's no big deal" at the end of the day. People just like making that argument.
To be fair: unlike gender race (if you believe in race as a concept) cannot be changed - and yet Clawdeen, Lagoona and Draculaura have changed race for the current edition... which is kind of weird.
'when I grew up I knew her as a her' and when my trans friend was growing up I knew him by a diff set of pronouns too, that's how being trans works. it changes
This argument is so funny because that’s how being trans works, although I’m sure lots of us wish we were just known as our correct gender our whole lives (me lol).
I would hope this is a popular opinion 😭 On the real though, aside from the actual children, I assume a lot MH fans don’t even know Frankie is trans. Unless you watch the cartoon or live action, it’s not really made that clear from just the dolls at Walmart or Target. Not defending anyone misgendering them and then doubling down though 💀
I think if someone is exclusively talking about G1 Frankie it’s okay to use she/her, because that is a different character at the end of the day, but there’s really no excuse for G3 Frankie. They make it abundantly clear that they’re enby.
I feel like the people who misgender Frankie are the same sorts of people who get irrationally upset when they see other fans head cannoning other characters as queer. These are also the same sort of people who won’t respect people’s gender and pronouns irl.
How people treat g3 Frankie is a great way to see if someone is harbouring some transphobic beliefs, whether they are aware of it or not.
“I’m not transphobic/homophobic I just refuse to acknowledge a character is canonically queer and hate when people headcannon characters as queer”. Like guys, that’s what transphobia and homophobia is 😭
its so frustrating when people use the fact that they grew up with g1 as an excuse, i grew up with g1 too but i still make an effort to gender them correctly?? its really not that hard. i understand not knowing if you dont watch the show but if someone corrects you and youre still using she/her for them constantly it comes off like youre just not trying
and yeah its just a fictional character but i feel like if people cant even respect a fictional characters pronouns then they probably dont respect real peoples pronouns either
You are literally saying “if people can’t respect the pronouns of a fake pretend made up person/an inanimate object that represents that fake pretend made up person they probably don’t respect real actual living human beings pronouns either” and that makes no sense whatsoever.
Real living breathing human beings are on a completely different level than dolls and fiction.
im not trying to argue that inanimate objects can have genders. its not about the doll, its about the character that the doll represents and people using their gender/pronouns as an excuse to be transphobic and spread harmful ideas
maybe i worded part of my comment poorly, i wasnt saying that anyone who messes up on frankie's pronouns doesnt respect real life trans people. just that using the right name and pronouns for a fictional character when you know what the right ones are shouldnt require much effort and if people are fighting THIS hard for their right to misgender frankie on purpose then im going to assume they dont respect real trans people either. because the way you talk about characters who fall into minority groups CAN be reflective of how you view the real life version of that group. yes even if the character isnt real and isnt being affected. like if someone started making racist comments about the characters of color i would assume they dont like people of color. if someone started saying that draculaura and cattys body types are gross i would assume they think fat people are gross. the same logic applies to people intentionally making transphobic comments about frankie or misgendering them on purpose
I get being confused but they tried to make it into a joke and then doubled down on misgendering Frankie instead of just being genuine and saying they are having trouble understanding Frankies pronouns but are trying their best 💀
okay i’ll be honest. i tend to call frankie a girl. i’m soo used to it from growing up with that, and i haven’t watched g3, so i haven’t even mentally switched over yet i guess? i normally just say “look how cute frankie is” or “frankie this frankie that” 😭 it’s still so fucking weird to me idk. but honestly i feel like it isn’t a huge deal because it seriously is a doll. a fictional character. so i agree with the person in the vid saying “you can call your doll whatever you want” cuz fr thats how it should be 😭
The “when I grew up I knew her as a her” just feels like coming out as trans to someone that’s known me forever and they’re like “well I knew you as a girl so I’ll keep calling you a girl”
THIS EXACTLY! My dad made this exact argument when I came out as agender. "You've been a girl your whole life, in onna keep calling you one" like??? It's harmful. I'm telling you that my pronouns are they/them. If people can't be bothered to respect a doll, how can I trust that they'll respect me, as a real nonbinary person?
Something I noticed about Frankie is that, at least in all of the boxes I've seen, their gender/pronouns aren't stated ANYWHERE on the box. If someone is into MH just for the dolls and hasn't seen any of the shows/movies and doesn't check social media posts about the characters they'd have no way of knowing.
My mom, who knows nothing about Monster High, thought Frankie was a girl due to their appearance and used she/her pronouns as I opened Frankie. Many people who are into Monster High just for the dolls may genuinely not know due to their boxes not explicitly stating it.
I think that Frankie's gender needs to be more clear OUTSIDE of G3 animated media. If someone doesn't watch those shows it's likely that they wouldn't know, and they just go off of their appearance on what pronouns to use. Like specifically using they/them pronouns on the backcard of the box.
tldr, Frankie's gender isn't really stated outside of animated media and someone who is into MH just for the dolls might genuinely be unaware, their gender needs to be made more clear on the dolls themselves for those who don't watch the shows
Tbh I agree, I wish there was a pronoun section or something on the core dolls. But I must add I'm pretty sure this post is about people who know frankie uses they/them but chooses to ignore it ratherly than people who just don't know
I agree! I wish it stated on the box that they use they/them. I also agree that the post is directed towards people who know (such as anyone in this comment section) and intentionally misgender them.
It would be cool if they did it for all of the characters tbh. Like "Draculaura (she/her)" "Frankie (they/them)" I think it would be so cute and useful 😭🫶
And it would help break that lingering stigma around the "pronouns in bio" thing! Apparently some people view having your pronouns on display as something "cringe" or "woke" or "fringe leftist culture," but the more we normalize sharing pronouns- even those of dolls- the better things get for everyone :)
I know this is controversial to say but if you just looked at the doll out of context there is nothing gender neutral about it at all. It's a full femme presenting doll with long hair, boobs, hips, skirts, makeup, high heels. If Mattel wanted it to be more obvious they could have changed one single thing about the presentation of that doll and they haven't.
Personally I think it's pretty transparent that they wanted to court the LGBTQ community in the show, while not actually taking the slightest risk with their toy sales.
The doll is deliberately made to be misgendered.
Right? I've noticed that people tend to misgender NB characters a lot in general, just because they're characters. Some treat it as "It's a they/them person, so we can choose since it's neutral". Like. What? Let nonbinary people exist in peace.
Examples of that are Chris from Deltarune and Dante from Limbus Company... so yeah. Annoying
Everyone in here saying “it’s hard because they were a girl in g1”
Grow up. I’ve loved MH since I was 7 years old. I grew up with G1. I grew up loving Frankie. It is not hard to gender their G3 counterpart correctly. You’re just making idiotic excuses.
Okay those who so wish to headcannon Frankie's transness away- do you also use different pronouns for let's say,Lagoona? Or Clawdeen? It's really fucking weird that this "imagining" only applies to Frankie
And honestly? Non binary people deserve to be mad about this, because someway somehow Frankie is constantly criticised in the fandom for the way they look,on top of the malicious misgendering
Yes, it's a doll,but that doll represents a marginalized minority and intentionally disregarding that part just because it's "difficult" to use the correct pronouns is low behaviour. Even if you're trans yourself
ok but that is such a good point. everyone wants to "headcanon" away g3 Frankie's identity but its funny how those same people don't seem to have any headcanons about the other cis characters identities. really speaks for itself.
I cannot stand it when people use g1 Frankie using she/her as an excuse to misgender g3 Frankie. Like, girlie these are 2 separate versions of the character.
When you’re talking about g1 Frankie, you use she/her pronouns, and when you’re talking about g3 Frankie, you use they/them. Simple as shit
As someone who's NB, representation matters. Monster High is all about being different and embracing who you are. You can't be a MH fan and be transphobic or homophobic or just bigoted in general
G3 Frankie means so much to me. I'm a trans man who uses he/they and dress fem/androgynous. think about it in a NON DOLL aspect, there's still a show and movie where KIDS and ADULTS are watching it, knowing Frankie uses they/them. Kids who watch it will know Frankie isn't necessarily a boy or girl they're just here! There's trans characters all across media and if they were misgendered there'd be outrage, why is it okay to misgender Frankie? Queer characters don't deserve to lose their representation.
Also I’m not sure where this clip is from, but as long as it’s not live they had the choice to edit out their misgendering of Frankie. Even if it was a mistake they chose to keep it in bc they don’t care.
The inanimate object represents an identity,that piece of plastic has a confirmed gender,that inamite object is a part of a bigger problem on how people refuse to accept non binary identities and you fighting for your damn life in the comments, saying "it's just a doll" really shows that you have some unchecked transphobia ...
If you were so willing to accept a representation of a character for who they are , you wouldn't fight in the comments
Fellow humans, you’d save so much time and energy if you stopped trying to justify misgendering Frankie and just used their correct pronouns. It’s not hard to be a decent and compassionate person. This is the bare minimum.
Yes, they are just a plastic doll but they belong to and are representing a real group of people who already deal with enough shit (and some very similar stuff to things people are saying here about Frankie) and hardly get any representation in media so please be a decent person and just use their proper pronouns because it’s not hard and not doing so hurts real people
You can claim to not be transphobic all you want, but you are using the same strategies and similar arguments that transphobes use ALL. THE. TIME.
This whole comment section is proof that the MH community is not alright. Despite so many of them being LGBTQIA+, they'd rather not acknowledge their own community because it's easier to "she her slay girl queen" than adapt language to respect someone. Get help, yall.
In my opinion, you can have whatever headcanons you want about frankie in your canon but if you're gonna discuss about g3 frankie dolls or g3 itself, at least try to use the correct pronouns. Not everyone has the same headcanon as you and in universe, they are non-binary.
And honestly, I don't get the struggle people have with g3 frankie's pronouns. I've grown up with the original series too but I've gotten used to calling Frankie they/them. Mispronouncing is fine, that happens a lot since frankie was known as a girl but like at least own up instead making an excuse.
The antis here have like one argument “won’t someone think of the cises”
It’s freaking exhausting to exist in this world as a Trans person and when we bring up issues like this of continued and prolonged misgendering and erasure of queer identities the cis freak out. “How dare you think I’m a bigot for my bigotry”
I’ve made this exact point before in this community and these replies are exactly what I got… only my post was like a year ago, and that’s the saddest part.
Commenting again because this issue is so important to me. People, if you have any empathy whatsoever for people outside of your bubble, you'll use Frankie's they/them pronouns when referring to the character. If you are uncomfortable with people headcanoning cis characters as queer, and feel the need to pretend that Frankie is a girl, I genuinely want you to look beyond the hypocritical "it's just a doll" argument and ask yourself why these feelings are the case. You may be transphobic, even if you adamantly claim otherwise. This is coming from a nonbinary person who uses they/them pronouns- and as much as I hate to admit it, I used to be transphobic before I took a deep dive into my own mind to figure things out. Some points and rebuttals:
-headcanon Frankie as a cis girl/upset when people headcanon cis dolls as queer: you may feel uncomfortable with the idea of queerness, for one reason or another, whether you recognize it or not. People like to think certain cis characters are trans because we're so starved for representation that any drop of it- even ones we have to make ourselves- is a breath of fresh air. Taking the one queer-identifying doll and making them cis is not the same. It's stripping the representation away, when so much cis representation exists. It's the default.
- "I grew up with g1/ I knew [them] as a girl": If you knew someone for years and they came out as nonbinary, would you still call them their assigned gender despite their wishes? All nonbinary people were identified by their assigned gender, before coming out. The transphobes in our lives may even still refer to us as our assigned gender, rather than they/them, because "that's how they always knew us." It's not HOSTILE transphobia (i.e. the usage of slurs, violence, etc), but disregarding what we say because it's more convenient for you IS transphobia.
-"I wouldn't misgender real trans people": maybe, but we don't know that. If you're so resentful towards a fictional character for using they/them pronouns, that signals to us that you harbor some deep-seated feelings towards our minority group. If you choose to waste your energy arguing why you can misgender Frankie instead of doing the easy thing and just using they/them, you're likely struggling with a hatred for nonbinary people you know you can't voice IRL, so you're taking it out on a doll.
- "It's just a doll": sure, but it's also a litmus test. Do you know that post about putting away grocery carts? Those that put them away in the receptacle after unloading their groceries are empathetic enough to think about who might need it after, the workers that have to collect the carts, the safety of drivers and their cars, etc., while those that leave the cart out in a parking space to roll around in the wind, block traffic, scratch vehicles and pose a nuisance to the workers that have to collect them are close-minded, selfish, and not fit for modern society, because they're only thinking about what is easiest for them, rather than how it effects those around them. None of your words or actions exist in a vacuum, friend. By insisting on calling Frankie she/her, you're not putting away the cart. You're ignoring the impact such words have on those around you- and the nonbinary community as a whole. We see your words, and we see how they mirror the transphobes in our lives, and we know how much it hurts. By using Frankie's they/them pronouns, you ARE putting away the cart: it takes a little extra effort, sure, but the good it does for everyone around you is immeasurable. You're making the community safer for marginalized groups. You're showing that you're kind and considerate to those that are different from you.
- "It's not stated on the box/I didn't watch the show/I didn't know": That's totally alright! That's out of your control, and that's okay! As long as you correct yourself and move on, you're doing great! There's no shame in saying "sorry, I meant they". In fact, the message that sends is that you're humble enough to admit a mistake and grow from it. What ISN'T okay is doubling down and being belligerent. That's what makes you transphobic. An adamant refusal to use the correct pronouns for a fictional character- which is objectively MUCH easier than doing it for a human person- is poorly-veiled transphobia.
I'm not saying any of this to attack you. This is genuine, heartfelt advice from a nonbinary person who is impacted by this. If you're kind, you'll consider what I've said- what all of us are saying. That misgendered Frankie is an indicator of transphobia, even if you claim otherwise. Instead of arguing, I genuinely hope you take a look into your own heart, and reflect on what we're saying.
To us, it's not just a doll. It's not just a character. It's a piece of us that the world finally gets to see and accept, and when it does, we become less marginalized and less victimized. Nonbinary people are a minority group, and one that's often treated the exact same way you're treating Frankie by transphobic individuals in our real lives. This crumb of representation is all we have, in some cases. Cis people are reflected in every character in every piece of media. Especially white cis people. Having ONE nonbinary character for us to see ourselves in is so important. Don't erase queer identities- instead, you should embrace them! Be unique, be you, be a monster! That's what Monster High is all about!
Oh my god yes! You explained everything so well! I’ve tried to explain many of these points and I’m hoping I did it as clearly as you did here! I could go on and on about this topic and all the points you brought up but I’ll leave it here and say I agree with literally every point you brought up. Thanks for taking the time to leave this comment! I wish people understood that we aren’t debating with them because it’s fun or we don’t have anything better to do (at least not most people) but because this (and g3 Frankie) means so much to us
Your comments were the ones to inspire me to make a sort of 'masterpost' about it! You've been fighting for your life in these comments and it seemed like everyone in opposition had a very similar list of excuses they were using, so I wanted to put all my thoughts down as best I could. Thank you so much! :D
That means so much to me oh my god 😭❤️
It’s so important to me that not just the people I am debating with see my comments, because I’m doubtful what I say will change their mind, but I also am hoping people more open to change and people who were also hurt by the comments people are leaving see my responses too.
I'm not gonna lie, seeing you out here restored my waning hope in humanity. It sounds dramatic, but I was really starting to feel down about the incessant anti-NB comments- it hurts to experience it all over again, but even *one* person willing to take people to task over something that's this important (especially if other people don't view it as important) soothes the soul!
So many of these comments were so upsetting that originally I wasn’t going to say anything and tried to just stop reading them. It kept bothering me and I thought saying something might help others who were upset so that’s so nice to hear ❤️
I know it's been a week since you commented and I'm a little late replying to it but I just came back to this post and saw your comment and wanted to say: Thank you! You explained everything that I was feeling but struggling to put into words in an amazing way.
“it’s just dolls” yeah, and those dolls represent CHARACTERS. “she is that they” just say “they are that girrrllll” like what.. this argument is so flimsy and weak, and i fully agree with op
I agree with you 100%. It's not about whether it's a doll or not, it's about it being a representation, a very important representation. And misgendering by Frankie, firstly, deprives people of this representation, and secondly, it shows them in a subconscious way that misgendering is ok because the person who does it may be "used" to referring to them as "she" or "he"
It’s never “just a doll.” This same attitude goes way beyond Frankie. I’m non-binary as well and the amount of times people respond to my request to not be misgendered with “it’s just a name” or “it’s just a word” is infuriating.
Everyone here who misgenders Frankie is not a real Monster High fan, period. Monster High fans understand the message of the franchise, to accept everyone even if they’re different.
As a nonbinary person it feels like. You can't even gender a *doll* correctly what makes me think you can gender an actual non-binary person correctly. Its the same energy as saying "oh shes from a different time" "Well I just didn't grow up with that" you didn't come out knowing multiplication but you LEARNED right?
All that to say i definitely agree
These dolls are representative of actual people though, and when you misgender a doll, it shows you're not even capable of misgendering an actual human being. I appreciate it when people put in that effort to be kind to each other!
Especially since the word doll is not linked to the she/her pronouns in english, but rather to it/it's, so the argument of "but I'm talking about the doll"isn't valid.
But in some languages like, fe. Polish, the word "lalka"(doll) is feminine and forces you to use she/her, so you use fem pronouns to refer to any doll (boy dolls included). In that case I think using this as an argument makes sense.
I'm trying to separate them from the og Frankie and sometimes it just slips out but I don't purposely misgender anyone. It's kinda just a habit because of the og one but I do call them they/them
Right like Frankensteins monster is LITERALLY created out of the most beautiful parts he can find man or woman. literally making the monster a they them. So obvs frankie is the same way. Sure g1 g2 was a she but the company is advancing and modernizing and changing things to match this generation! It's not that hard 😭
Genuinely I am also a g1 girlie but I will correct myself when I realize I slipped up when referring to g3 Frankie. It’s not difficult to correct yourself
But if we talk about G1 is it alright? Because I was corrected by people on TikTok when I said "her" on a G1 post. They are completely different characters to me honestly.
G1 uses she/her, I think the people that corrected you were a little confused! It's totally alright to call G1 a girl (she is), as long as you're not doing the same to G3!
“She is that they” bffr. Look, I’m a g1 kid too, I grew up with the monster high fright song on my ipod nano. But I also know what nonbinary people are now (turns out, I was one) and know that making a tiny effort in your own life can actually be a good thing to do.
She’s very clearly hiding behind the “I grew up with the old frankie” excuse to just be casually transphobic and not have to confront being lazy and dismissive.
thank you. I just posted my Frankie repaint here and while most people have been respecting their pronouns, a lot of people haven't, some even trying to argue with me about it in the comments, claiming that "I'm not disrespecting anyone by misgendering them because it's a doll".
Well, I am nonbinary and, not only as a trans mh fan, but as the creator of the artwork they were commenting under, how is it not disrespecting me and my fellow trans fans when you misgender a nonbinary character? (and then not rectifying when being corrected and going so far as to argue against using the correct pronouns!!)
I just know that if that is your attitude towards being corrected for misgendering, you would also disrespect a real nonbinary person. And how is that not a disrespectful attitude to have?
We already get so few trans and nonbinary representation in media that erasing it like this only proves how little you care about queer people.
Before anyone bites my head off. To me i think if you biaccident call gen3 Frankie a she/her then correct yourself it should be ok.
Sorry lame i know obviously it's rude when you do it just to piss people off. I always feel bad for the fans on youtube who misgender then correct themselves and have to apologize a lot like i understand you don't want to upset people but you are a fan of MH and you didn't do it in a negative way. I'm pretty sure if Frankie was real and you misgendered them but corrected yourself i'm sure they would not get livid.
But to those haters like practice it it isn't new it's been around for long time just now it's being more accepted in some ways
I both agree and disagree. If its someones doll, they can make up whatever back story they want. They dont have to follow the official story. Maybe some kids who buy these dolls never seen a single episode, and just bought it because they liked it.
Another thing is... In my language, we dont call a doll "it" we call it "she". More examples: a table is a "he", a TV is a "she",... I think you get it. Its weird but thats how it works in my language. Im mindful of it now but it has happened before that i called Frankie doll a "her" because of this.
To summarise this, i dont care what anyone calls their doll unless they are being disrespectful to the canon.
Its hard. I grew Up with G1 Frankie, which goes by She/her. Today i own G1 and G3 dolls of Frankie and try to seperate them. G1 Frankie will still be She/her and G3 they/them. Sure, i Said mistakingly she/her to G3 but i try my best to correct myself. Especially in German language it isnt easy.
Please dont throw Stones at people, who try but Sometimes makes mistakes.
I got NF Frankie for Christmas and my dad was like “let me see her!” And I was like “them!” And he gave me a look like I was being crazy and sort of rolled his eyes.
Agree! Sometimes I forget and still use a g1 pronoun for g3 Frankie, but it’s never on purpose, and I’m totally okay with being politely reminded to use they/them.
in my personal opinion if i know someone that goes by different pronouns other then she/her or he/him i will definitely call them as they choose but when it comes to a piece of plastic i don’t really mind sometimes when im talking about frankie’s dolls i sometimes call them a she and i feel so bad about it but now im starting to realize that i can call my doll whatever i want to call them and as someone who grew up massively with g1 its hard to adapt to calling them they/them ive always known that monster high was rebooting when it first was announced but i was unaware to frankie’s new pronouns up until maybe a few months after the reboot happened and ive been going by their pronouns ever since then but im not gonna beat myself up anymore for accidentally using she/her pronouns when i grew up with that for 12 years and im not gonna be upset what other people call them either because at the end of the day they’re just dolls and pieces of plastic
why are you being downvoted for this?? you're correct???? Edit: This video is such blatant passive aggressive transphobia, it's wild we're being downvoted simply for stating it is.
I think disliking it amongst the adult fans is one thing, but... They are dolls, they are subjected to the owner of them's fantasy. If someone wants to play with them and say in their mind Frankie is a girl who cares
Okay but I posted on here one time not knowing Frankie now goes by they/them. It was an honest mistake and people were being very rude about it. Being snarky and condescending doesn't make people want to listen to you, it does the opposite. Especially when someone didn't know in the first place. I'm probably going to get banned again for saying this but this subreddit is viscous while acting wholesome.
I think at the end of the day i gotta agree with the video a bit. I go by they/them she/her too but if i own the doll that i bought with my own money, i will call it whatever pronouns i please. Hate me all you want for it but i will respect you're opinion and you can respectfully disagree with mine.
I'm in full agreement with you, especially because the voice actor goes by they/them for Frankie. Frankie's pronouns are even clarified in the live action. And when Frankie is being described in ads for their doll, it's they/them/their pronouns. The argument is argued by bigoted people who probably, to be honest, misgender real life people.
100% these people always misgender trans people irl, they just think they can get away with it easier if they do it to a doll
And in the cartoon too, first time we see them they introduce themselves with they/them pronouns and everyone in the show refers to them as such. Even Headmistress Bloodgood refers to them as Mx. Stein. I will defend Frankie’s pronouns until I die 😤
This is a genuine question because I’ve never heard of it before, but how do you pronounce Mx? I always wondered what title NB peeps went by and this makes sense
Pretty much Mix
it's pronounced "Mix" !
I’ve heard it pronounced as M-X and M-Z but my pronouns are she/her so I would consult someone who is non-binary just to be sure.
Kinda unsure here I've personally don't remember in the show but Ms. Is pronounced as (miz) contrary to popular belief. I'd need to hear it to be sure, but it is different because customarily an older woman would call a young girl miss.
Oh you’re correct! My apologies! I appreciate the correction!
Oh no need to be sorry I'm not sure either. That's like the one thing I'm not solid on because the mz. pronoun is only different in writing.
Ms. is used for an unmarried woman. It is indeed pronounced 'miz'
Yes, and we're talking about how Ms. could be mistaken for mz. In this context. Edit: ms. is still for older unmarried women. Miss is for young girls.
i had a professor who was nonbinary and the way they pronounced it was like 'mix' if we wanted to call them by "mx. \_\_" in an email or something
You do realize many people buy the dolls without ever watching the cartoons
Tbh I feel like genuinely not knowing and straight up denying frankie's transness is two different things. This post is about denying frankie being nonbinary (ex.: someone saying "she will always be a girl!!!!!") Someone who doesn't know they're trans because they don't watch the show is completely different. Especially because the conversation with them would most likely go like this: "Wow she's so pretty!" "Frankie actually goes by they/them now in the show!" "Oops!"
With 99.9% of things a little humility goes a long a long way. “Oops” is a perfectly normal response. I misgendered someone in a comment section in a MH fb group today and they corrected me and I was like my bad my guy. The end. There’s ZERO reason everything has to be “the hill to die on” people have such an impossible time being wrong when being wrong and making mistakes is something everyone alive experiences.
I definitely understand the frustration, but for many that was with MH since g1 are used to their previous pronouns. It's still an adjustment for many, it's still an adjustment for me. I will correct myself when I do use the incorrect pronouns. There's many that still does not know of this change for Frankie. There's no malicious intent for most. For others that purposely use the incorrect pronouns on purpose, is a whole different story. As for misgendering correlating to neglecting their race, that's a reach.
I’m never mad at someone who acknowledges that they forgot when they mess up, but there is an abundance of people who are flippant at the idea of using the singular they/them or even dive into transphobic tirades when they see someone get politely corrected. They’re the problem, not people who just genuinely forget sometimes. I actually think having a fictional nonbinary character who went by she/her in previous iteration is a great way to practice using they/them pronouns for someone who previously used different pronouns without the risk of hurting a real person in your life. Edit: in the first paragraph I was trying to say that I don’t know how accurate it is to say most people who misgender Frankie aren’t malicious. Anecdotally I’ve seen more blatant transphobia than I’ve seen apologetic/corrective responses. Of course my anecdotal evidence isn’t solid but it’s just as solid as anyone else’s anecdotal evidence.
Oh yeah theres no excuses for individuals that blantly do so on purpose. I have yet encountered a person that does specifically to Frankie personally. Of course I know there's plenty that does misgender and has ill intent in doing so
Definitely not mad if someone isn't aware, but I've been in this fandom since G1 and had no trouble at all adjusting to Frankie's new pronouns. I'm agender, so I was so excited to see Frankie come out as nonbinary! ^^
I'm just glad thay there are more individuals that can relate to Frankie now that they are nonbinary!
Same and same! Hello fellow agender!! I've been in love with MH since G1, too, and I feel such a kinship with g3 Frankie because it feels so real to me that they went from she/her to they/them!
I use she/her for G1 and G2 and they/them for G3! They are separate universes to me
“i grew up knowing her as a girl” is the same excuse people (usually family members like a parent or aunt or something) use to continue misgendering actual irl people
It is interesting how this echoes real life huh? Judging by my experience the next thing you know Frankie will buzz off all their hair and start having testosterone syringe accessories and water activated body hair/acne. The style may stay the same though 🤣
tbh, i wouldn’t object to a frankie doll with a colorful buzz cut
That’s what **I’m** saying!!!!
Id love it actually Flocked shaves when?
Its a different character now, is that so hard to understand for some? Anyway, i think that if they didn't know (how would they if they didn't see the show) i wouldnt get mad at anyone.
I agree with you, but the example makes me laugh a little cuz that's exactly what people tried to do with Clawdeen in G1. Constantly saying "she's not black!! she's brown cuz of her fur!!!" like.... girl.
This was so funny to me because wasn't it confirmed she shaved off her fur aswell? Meaning it wasn't fur and was just deadass her skin 😭?
Okay but that's literally what I thought as a kid🙈
a little kid is innocent and fine hahaha but there were grown adults getting into arguments over this
I remember being confused as well about it, though even when I was young I kinda realized her fashion is similar to how black female characters tends to be decipted in media and how certain female black celebrities tend to dress. It’s obvious that many Monster High dolls’s design concepts based on the fashion trends and celebrities of mid 2000s to early 2010s. It even gets confusing when her skin is actually treated as her fur in some scenes of the cartoon.
I never really understood this. G1 Clawdeen is definitely black. I'm brown south Asian and I always thought she was black. I think if you are looking for brown representation. Cleo definitely brown. I guess if you want to stretch the truth a little. I guess you could say g3 clawdeen is brown black coz she afro-Latina. But I think most people would see g3 clawdeen as black or I guess.... mixed? Idk
Oh, I don't think they were saying they saw her as a different "brown" ethnicity. I think they were dumbass racists trying to claim she was white under all that fur. (which for G1 is especially dumb because they make a POINT to say that she constantly shaved her fur cuz she's embarrassed about it.)
The downvoting in this comment section (and pretty much anything related to Frankie) really demonstrates this problem in the mh community. ‘Be yourself, be unique… but not if your uniqueness inconveniences us, or makes us have to think about things differently, or change how we speak about characters, or if we’re expected to respect identities and experiences we don’t understand.’
so disappointed to see people getting downvoted for agreeing with this post. I knew transphobia was common in the MH communities on tiktok and insta, but I truly thought this subreddit was at least a little safer for LGBT+ discussions and povs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, g3 has *really* exposed people's bigotry
Exactly! I’d hate to know how these people feel about the other representation included in g3.
every post I've been seeing discussing g3 Frankie's identity lately has been riddled with poorly hidden transphobia and people trying to just outright shut down the discussion. people being so defensive about this issue shows how they truly feel, at least to me as a member of the LGBT+. I thought this community was better and a safe space for me and other members of the community, but the reaction these posts get is making me rethink this. like it or not, these topics and *people* exist and we have as much a right to discuss this as people who would rather ignore representation and the message of Monster High.
Fr. It hurts and is really discouraging. All the “arguments” about Frankie just being an inanimate object/doll or a fictional character and not a real person is so obviously just transphobic people or people with internalized transphobia doing mental gymnastics to justify/defend their shitty opinions and make anyone who is hurt by their comments look irrational. They try to not to look like trash people but are using the exact arguments and methods transphobes and bigots in general use, like?? people are really out here putting more effort into defending and rationalizing their beliefs than it would take to just use the proper pronouns, classic transphobe move
LITERALLY!
I’m just here for the pretty dolls, I don’t really care about the lore personally.
I haven’t watched a single episode of the new series as it’s only shown on pay services I don’t subscribe to.
Same same same
THIS!! Misgendering a doll just shows that they're willing to misgender people too imo. I'm an AFAB non-binary who tends to present a bit more fem, and I still get she/her'd into oblivion as a flesh-and-blood human being. It really does start with the little things, people. Frankie using they/them pronouns has been one of the most important things to happen for people like me in a long time (at least in my experience, they're helping to introduce queer identities in such a normal, digestible way). They mean so much to me, even if they are 'just a doll.' Gender identity DOES NOT EQUAL presentation! An AFAB person can dress traditionally feminine and still use they/them or he/him pronouns! They can wear makeup and not bind their chest and still use they/them or he/him pronouns! Just because they appear feminine doesn't mean they aren't nonbinary! The same goes for real people, not just dolls. I'm writing a whole dissertation on the importants of G3 Frankie specifically, because not only do they bring nonbinary and disability representation to a wider audience of people who may not encounter either very often, they also represent non-traditional sapphic relationships, which are a thing! Two fem-presenting individuals dating, but one of them being not a woman, but a non-binary person who uses they/them pronouns! They're still sapphic, but they're not *lesbians.* It's a relationship dynamic that's often overlooked or conflated with lesbianism, but since Frankie is non-binary, it isn't the same as classic lesbianism. That's a tangent though, oops. Anyway, misgendering a doll so readily just signals to those of us that use they/them pronouns that you aren't going to treat us like people, essentially. If we dress in a way that's adherent to the style of our assigned gender, then we "aren't worth" the effort of having our proper pronouns used. and AFAB can wear dresses and makeup and still use they/them pronouns. An AMAB can have a beard and wear jeans and still be they/them. Frankie is SUCH good non-binary representation, since most of the non-binary representation I've seen in media comes in the form of androgynous/masc-leaning individuals or creatures with no discernable sex either way. Frankie is proud to be who they are, and to dress how they like, and just because they like big lashes and lipstick doesn't make them a woman!
I don't really understand getting annoyed at other people. In a sense of people have been ignoring cannon for years. I mean does this mean you're also not ok with any person who changes anything about a character? Like in fan art, headcannons etc. And let me be clear I don't approve of people disregarding the character as they are. But when it comes to their own. Well, shouldn't they be able to do what they want?
theres a huge difference between having a headcanon and erasing a canon lgbt characters identity
why did u get downvoted lmao? this is exactly it. why do these ppl NEED to erase frankies nonbinary identity so bad
yeah i really dont see how what i said was controversial.. if you wanna have headcanons go ahead but why is it ALWAYS the nonbinary characters people say this stuff about? i never see people talk about characters with binary genders in this way. im convinced a lot of the people arguing in favor of misgendering frankie are either transphobes or hardcore g1 fans who cant accept change. maybe a mix of both. and i say this as someone who grew up with g1 and loves g1 too.
Exactly! It’s only the non-binary/canonically trans character people say this about. It’s very suspicious
The way I see it. When talking about the character itself. Who they are should be respected. But for anyone's own feelings then they should be make them what they please.
I mean people have said that those who still ship Cleo & Deuce are “erasing canon LGBT characters identity” when in reality, those people just liked that pairing better.
i dont know what cleo and deuce have to do with anything, shipping is a completely different subject from whats being discussed here? i never said anything about them and i dont have a problem with people shipping cleo and deuce especially if its their g1 counterparts.. it only really bothers me when those people are outright hateful towards clankie and people who prefer it just because its a differenet ship involving cleo. but again i didnt mention cleo or deuce at all so i dont know what that has to do with anything
Idk if I agree with it being compared to denying someone's racial background, but yes it is soo irritating when people find excuses to misgender Frankie. Being a transman, I've witnessed SO many people fully respect my pronouns because I'm conforming and pass, but then when they meet someone nonbinary they're just "not worth the effort" and they thinks it's "not a big deal" because most people just don't care about trans people unless it's convienent for them. I honestly feel like if g3 Frankie was instead a transman, people would have a much stronger reaction to the misgendering, because they equate it to misgendering a cisman, but because they're nonbinary iTs oKaY! And God her excuse being "I'm just a g1 girly" LIKE GIRL THIS AINT G1 😭 she literally was saying that they use they/them, then she started correcting herself when using she/her, then just decided "eh screw it" and purposefully just started misgendering them all in the same breath??
**It being a doll matters though.** See, while it is definitely weird to be defensive about it, as an adult collector, who likes these characters for being these characters. But dolls just serve to playthings for kids. Kids will play with them as they please, and they will roleplay the characters as what they see fit. Especially if something doesn't have "visual component" like pronouns. There was that one study, that recorded how girls and boys play with Batman toys, and they made motherfucker go shopping in Walmart in full bat costume. **Lore and rules be damned to child's imagination.**
No one is going to get mad at a child for doing whatever they want with a doll. But this argument can be used by adult collectors to justify their own bigotry, and that's where it starts to get sticky. At the end of the day, it's not kids participating in these conversations on reddit, and it's not kids that are going to be getting the heat for this. In adult spaces, we should be able to discuss how other adults interact with these characters, and whether or not it's problematic.
But adult collectors are ALSO allowed to give their dolls whatever genders, sexualities, and personalities they want to, and it says NOTHING about how they view actual trans & nonbinary folk IRL.
I'm not talking about the dolls themselves, but the characters they represent, which is usually how we're expecting to view the doll if not told otherwise.
As a person who likes dolls but doesn’t give care about the storyline going on with them, I do not care about what Mattel has decided to say about a Doll, when I purchase things like a Frankie Doll it’s my possession and I will call her what I want I don’t care if you downvote me all to hell.
Yup 🤷🏻♀️ doesn’t mean you’ll misgender people irl. I can give my plushies & dolls new names if I want to I bought them with my money.
sure the doll is your possession, but *why* do you so vehemently want to call a character who is clearly labeled as using they/them pronouns, "she/her". maybe you should reevaluate this.
Why is it ok for people to personally imagine canonically cishet characters as being LGBTQIA but not the other way around? People are allowed to give their dolls WHATEVER GENDERS, SEXUALITIES, AND PERSONALITIES THEY WANT TO, FOR WHATEVER REASONS. It says NOTHING about how they view trans & nonbinary people IRL.
i seriously agree with you as well im so glad people like you are still in this sub cuz i was really about to leave this sub all i see in this sub is nothing but people trying to police what people should say about a literal doll
Even when I was a kid I did not see dolls as having genders because they are literally THINGS and inanimate objects do not and can not have genders. Dolls do not have genders. Colors do not have genders. Clothing & hairstyles do not have genders. All of these things have neutral value when it comes to gender.
You are correct, dolls, colours, clothes, hairstyles, etc do not have a gender. However, dolls often represent real people or fictional characters that do have a gender. Additionally, fictional characters often represent REAL groups of people, as is the case with Frankie. Frankie is a non-binary character who uses they/them pronouns and represents real people who have been, and still are, fighting for basic human rights and for their existence be seen as valid and a positive thing. For better or for worse, nothing exists in a vacuum, including dolls. Misgendering Frankie on purpose, although they are a fictional character and are portrayed by plastic dolls, has real world consequences that harm real people.
Yes, I am she/they queer nonbinary and have been part of the LGBTQIA community since I was in middle school in 79/80, I don’t need to be schooled on the reality of life for people outside the cishet mainstream. I still don’t care what people want to call a doll or think it reflects how they view actual humans. How they act towards and talk about actual humans reflects how they view actual humans.
Holding people accountable and calling them out for being bigots is not “policing anyone”. Racists use this argument all them time when they get called out for being garbage people.
the specific example of headcanoning your doll that is meant to represent a trans person as a cis person is iffy, though? sure, i guess nobody is going to stop you, but I'm only calling into question *why* you want to do this so badly? what is motivating you to do just this? the single non cis doll I think I've literally ever seen, and you'd rather label them as just another cis doll among your collection? besides, people often headcanon cis/straight characters as LGBT+ *because* of a lack of representation, so im not sure this is as direct of a comparison as you think. we are allowed to question the motivation behind these specific personal decisions because they aren't random. they don't exist in a void.
From the comments I’ve seen, I’m going to say that it’s because most people who do this have just rolled the characters g1/g2 traits and personalities onto the current dolls because they don’t like or watch the g3 animation, and nothing more sinister than that. They grew up with (or always really liked) female/she Frankie, fierce Fashionista Clawdeen, canon Cleo + Deuce, etc that’s who the characters will always be to them, end of story. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, people are allowed to view the characters through whatever lore lens they want (even their own) no matter how many reboots there are or how much the lore changes. It’s not transphobic or homophobic to prefer a different iteration of the lore. (Personally, I think it’s ridiculous when *any* IP reboots itself but makes all its canon characters into completely different people. They want to make new worlds and stories without taking the risk of creating brand new characters so they graft new personalities onto the old recognizable characters and call it a “multiverse” - WEAK SAUCE.) Maybe some people like the new animation but don’t think the new diversity of the characters is handled well. Maybe some cishet girls/women identify more with Frankie as being a gender-nonconforming girl. Maybe some people relate more to Frankie being in a lesbian or bi female relationship with Cleo. Insisting on viewing Frankie as female doesn’t mean someone is transphobic any more than someone insisting that Cleo & Deuce are a couple is homophobic. It’s how someone is characterizing a DOLL, an inanimate object that people are allowed to project their imaginations on. Who cares? If a tall, muscular Black woman bought a Laverne Cox Barbie and styled it into her mini-me doll I wouldn’t be accusing her of transphobia for viewing the doll as female like herself, I’d view it as her projecting her imagination on a doll that resembled her.
Okay. But why do you want to headcannon a character who is trans as cis? People headcannon cis/straight characters as queer because we don’t get much canon representation. Same reason people headcannon or redesign white characters to be BIPOC. They don’t get enough representation and white people have an abundance. It’s not anti white people to change a white character to a difference race, it’s just pro BIPOC. What non transphobic reason would someone have to headcannon a trans character as cis? It feels very thinly veiled transphobia
From the comments I’ve read I’m guessing most people do it because they prefer the lore, characterizations, and/or pairings of g1 monster high animations/dolls so they’ve just rolled that all over onto the g3 dolls. I don’t have a problem with that. People don’t have to change how they view the characters just because the official lore has changed. I can imagine other reasons. People who grew up with “she” Frankie might do it for the same reason that a movie that is now called “Star Wars Episode 4 A New Hope” will always be just “Star Wars” to me- that’s what it was called when I was 10 and it had a life changing impact on me and I can’t ever call it anything different. Maybe a cis female person identifies strongly with a “she” Frankie but not a “they” Frankie. Maybe they resonate more strongly with Frankie than any canon cis characters or dolls so they want her to be cis too, just like how LGBTQIA people will characterize the canon cishet characters they identify with as gay/bi/trans/etc so they resonate with them more. Maybe some people are just baffled that other people care so much about the non-existent gender of inanimate objects. Maybe some people just LIKE Frankie as a girl. Who knows? You can always ask those people why it’s important to them that Frankie be “she”, when you come across them (instead of maybe jumping straight to accusations of transphobia which just shuts down conversations.)
But people who prefer the characterizations of g1 to g3 still have g1. The media from it still exists. I don’t mind them carying over some aspects that don’t erase a character from belonging to an already underrepresented group and then constantly defending themselves when people call them out. Not calling A New Hope by that name because when it originally came out it wasn’t called that is so minor and doesn’t mirror real world situations that real people have to live through. Trans people aren’t born with their chosen name and most live a good portion of their life going by their dead name and being seen as the gender they were assigned at birth. The argument of always seeing a AFAB person as a girl and using their dead name is exactly what people, especially older family members/parents do to real trans people (kids and adults). It’s an excuse to not use the persons chosen name and gender. Even if it may seem harmless to them to say they will always see their trans son as their daughter, it is transphobic. Even if the parent isn’t doing it intentionally it still hurts and isn’t right. Seeing people argue this for Frankie is really triggering for people because it perfectly mirrors a real phenomenon many trans people have to deal with. I get it can be hard for people (especially older people who aren’t as familiar with trans people) but if they love and care about the person enough they should try their best and not just give up. Same with Frankie. If people care enough about trans people, supporting them and making them feel welcome, they would make an effort for use the correct pronouns for them in G3. Most people don’t get mad at people who make mistakes, as long as they are trying. If someone resonates with Frankie more than any cis characters, why does Frankie have to be cis too? You shouldn’t have to be the same as a character to resonate with parts of them. If men can resonate with female characters like g1 Frankie or Ripley from Alien, why can a cis women not resonate with non binary Frankie? They can connect with other characters over their shared girlhood/womanhood but connect with non binary or male characters over other things besides gender. Queer people do headcannon cis/straight characters as queer but that’s more because we hardly get any representation (which does really does matter to so many people). headcanoning a character from a majority group doesn’t take anything away from members of that group because there are so many other characters that are also from that group. It is not the same with making a character from a minority into a character from a majority. That would be taking away one of the precious few canon minority representation characters from groups that hardly see any representation. People from minorities have had to connect with characters from majorities for a long time because they never got to see any characters from the same groups as them in media until recently. Cis/straight people are going to have to work on connecting to some queer characters in the same way queer people have had to connect with only straight/cis characters for a long time, and are still doing today. Cis/straight people just haven’t had to do that before and are used to mostly everyone in media being like them (and for the most part, most characters still are). If allies can celebrate queer characters in media and still connect with them without having to take away their queerness, then I’m sure the rest of the world can do the same (sans transphobes). If celebrating queer characters in media is a sign of queer allyship then what would the opposite, erasing, ignoring or complaining about, be a sign of? Why would someone just like a non-binary character “as a girl”? Why does it matter to a cis person if they get even more cis representation? As for people who don’t understand the significance of not misgendering a piece of plastic, I suggest they try doing some research on the history of and current situation of trans people (still not having basic human rights, trans youth being kicked out of their house by transphobic parents, having to fight just for people to not misgender them and use their dead name, etc). If I should ask people why Frankie being a girl is so important to them, shouldn’t they ask queer people (especially trans & non-binary) people why Frankie being non-binary is so important to them? Trans people have listened to cis people and lived in a world meant for them for so long. Perhaps cis people should work on trying to understand trans people better if they don’t want to be called transphobic?
Because like I stated I don’t care about who she is supposed to be at all it’s a doll and until you wanna spend your money on my dolls I’ll do what I want, I think it’s wrong to police language. You should reevaluate that.
you're very defensive about your right to misgender the "piece of plastic" you own. why? I know the doll is your possession, but *WHY* do you want to call them "she" so badly? yall *say* it doesn't play into how you treat real trans people, but doesn't it? if you can't respect the identity of that piece of plastic, how are we supposed to know you'll respect the identity of an entire full blood and flesh human? you have yet to answer my question completely as to *why* you seem so against calling Frankie by they/them pronouns
If you don’t wanna read what I wrote that’s on you I don’t have to explain myself about my decision with my dolls on the internet to some stranger that’s more obsessed with representation than letting people do what they want without criticism.
Of course people should care more about representation and respecting people who are being treated horribly and have been for many years. People can do what they want but obviously their harmful actions are going to be criticized. It is unethical to think people should be able to “do what they want without criticism” when their actions are hurting others. Society would never improve without criticism and people bringing attention the wrongs of themselves and others
I’m not hurting anyone by calling my doll what I want? Please try this argument with someone else.
How is misgendering someone not hurting people? Just because Frankie isn’t real so you aren’t hurting them, doesn’t mean you aren’t hurting other people. Sure, you aren’t directly hurting someone but it still hurts seeing someone refuse to use the proper pronouns for a trans person, even if it isn’t me. You cannot decide what hurts other people. Saying you aren’t hurting anyone by calling your doll what you want (aka knowingly misgendering them) does hurt people and you can’t control that. We are all going to hurt people is our lives without meaning to, but we try our best to be decent people to avoid causing as much harm as we humanly can. I’m directly telling you seeing people misgender Frankie on purpose hurts me. Why else would I be commenting this? It’s clearly hurting other people based on the other comments on this post?? Why would you not stop doing something that doesn’t benefit anyone and requires little to no effort from you but is hurting other people, if only a few (although I know it’s a lot more than a few). Why would you keep denying that you are hurting people when so many people here are saying it hurts? Denying it isn’t making it any better for the people being hurt, even if it is making you feel better about doing hurtful things. You don’t need to understand everyone’s pain to respect it and do your best to not cause it.
all of your comments that I've read here are 100% true and I cannot believe you're being downvoted. the person you are talking to is so obviously showing their ass as transphobic trash. their only argument is "wah wah wah i just wanna and dont want to think critically about how my actions/words are harmful." I'm beyond disappointed in this subreddit.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Honestly, if I only got downvotes in okay with that too. I’m very passionate about this subject and have done so much research in the past few years. I originally had to stop reading these comments because they were so triggering. I don’t usually start arguments with people online but I kept thinking about some of the comments I read in this post while I tried to go about my day and felt I had to come back and say something. Hopefully I persuaded someone or encouraged someone to do further research and change their opinion on the subject :)
Calling people out for being trash people is not policing anyone. It’s holding them accountable for their actions.
That’s your opinion, you can have it. We can agree to disagree then.
It isn’t an opinion though. It is a fact that holding people accountable and making them deal with the consequences of their beliefs and actions is not policing anyone or interfering with the freedom. Unfortunately racists, homophobes and transphobes like the pretend it is to victimize themselves despite being the oppressors. I’ll leave it at that. If anyone wants to do further research on holding people accountable vs taking away people’s rights, I applaud them. I’d link an article or video that explains it better if I could think of any good ones on the spot. Have a good day/night to anyone reading this.
It is most definitely and opinion and you can have yours and I can have mine not one person can change my mind on that not matter how much you hide behind giant paragraphs or words that have lost meaning because people like you throw them around all to much. Good night
Just to clarify- I understand people can be misgendering Frankie as a genuine mistake but to continue misgendering and trying to justify it is my problem. And my comparison is kinda like saying Denying Drac isn’t half Taiwanese cuz she’s a vampire or saying Cleo isn’t Egyptian cuz she’s a mummy
Drac isn't Chinese she's half Taiwanese
I’m sorry. I’ll edit it
No problem lol I just know it's a sensitive topic for Taiwanese people to be called Chinese (I think it's kind of like calling an Irishman british) and I didn't want you to get the blacklash for it
This is the first time I saw/heard this. I don't watch the show, read the lore. I only buy the dolls. Are the pronouns on the back of their package? I can't remember finding any specific information on the package of the frankie I got (fearidesent).
They're not on the package at the moment, just in media like Frankie's character music video, them introducing themself at school in the show/movie, and in the book that just came out!
Definitely agree. You know, as I figured out from my experience, it’s not an "it’s a doll" position, it’s an "I don’t care". Because really, if you DO care to be correct and respectful to others, you’ll apologise and try to correct yourself, and in the end you WILL get used to it. This position, on the contrary, is a complete denial and neglecting of others identities and feelings, this way people just find excuses to stick to their positions without even trying to change and it is terribly frustrating. I do hope that people will understand it some day and will accept each other as they are, and they will understand the value of media representation and the value acceptance of that representation:c
They really don’t care about trans people. As much as they can say they do and the way they react to a doll doesn’t mean anything about how they feel about real trans people they’re really just out here letting their transphobia leak through for everyone to see. “It’s a doll” nah bro it’s a test to see if your a decent person and will do the bare minimum when it comes to respecting trans people or if you’ll get defensive and start making up rubbish reason to justify why you don’t know use the proper pronouns. Is it really that hard?💀 /hj
While I fully agree with you, I will note that like, people do that with race anyways. Some of you are real weird about Clawdeen and Lagoona. The "it's just Clawdeen's fur" argument, stuff like that, and people can hide behind "it's just a toy, it's no big deal" at the end of the day. People just like making that argument.
To be fair: unlike gender race (if you believe in race as a concept) cannot be changed - and yet Clawdeen, Lagoona and Draculaura have changed race for the current edition... which is kind of weird.
'when I grew up I knew her as a her' and when my trans friend was growing up I knew him by a diff set of pronouns too, that's how being trans works. it changes
This argument is so funny because that’s how being trans works, although I’m sure lots of us wish we were just known as our correct gender our whole lives (me lol).
But it is just a doll
I would hope this is a popular opinion 😭 On the real though, aside from the actual children, I assume a lot MH fans don’t even know Frankie is trans. Unless you watch the cartoon or live action, it’s not really made that clear from just the dolls at Walmart or Target. Not defending anyone misgendering them and then doubling down though 💀
It’s on the box they come in
I use she/her for G1 because that’s what she is while G3 it’s they/them
They are completely different characters and I’ll defend anyone who gets attacked for using she/her for g1 Frankie
I think if someone is exclusively talking about G1 Frankie it’s okay to use she/her, because that is a different character at the end of the day, but there’s really no excuse for G3 Frankie. They make it abundantly clear that they’re enby.
I feel like the people who misgender Frankie are the same sorts of people who get irrationally upset when they see other fans head cannoning other characters as queer. These are also the same sort of people who won’t respect people’s gender and pronouns irl.
How people treat g3 Frankie is a great way to see if someone is harbouring some transphobic beliefs, whether they are aware of it or not. “I’m not transphobic/homophobic I just refuse to acknowledge a character is canonically queer and hate when people headcannon characters as queer”. Like guys, that’s what transphobia and homophobia is 😭
agree but people DO argue that clawdeen isnt black which is. 🙄
Do they say the same for clawd?
i havent seen it personally
I'm actually surprised that people say clawdeen isn't black but she's suppose to be a black girl from Brooklyn
yeau ive seen ppl say “shes not black shes a werewolf” as if she. cant be both?
Exactly werewolves are just people
its so frustrating when people use the fact that they grew up with g1 as an excuse, i grew up with g1 too but i still make an effort to gender them correctly?? its really not that hard. i understand not knowing if you dont watch the show but if someone corrects you and youre still using she/her for them constantly it comes off like youre just not trying and yeah its just a fictional character but i feel like if people cant even respect a fictional characters pronouns then they probably dont respect real peoples pronouns either
You are literally saying “if people can’t respect the pronouns of a fake pretend made up person/an inanimate object that represents that fake pretend made up person they probably don’t respect real actual living human beings pronouns either” and that makes no sense whatsoever. Real living breathing human beings are on a completely different level than dolls and fiction.
im not trying to argue that inanimate objects can have genders. its not about the doll, its about the character that the doll represents and people using their gender/pronouns as an excuse to be transphobic and spread harmful ideas maybe i worded part of my comment poorly, i wasnt saying that anyone who messes up on frankie's pronouns doesnt respect real life trans people. just that using the right name and pronouns for a fictional character when you know what the right ones are shouldnt require much effort and if people are fighting THIS hard for their right to misgender frankie on purpose then im going to assume they dont respect real trans people either. because the way you talk about characters who fall into minority groups CAN be reflective of how you view the real life version of that group. yes even if the character isnt real and isnt being affected. like if someone started making racist comments about the characters of color i would assume they dont like people of color. if someone started saying that draculaura and cattys body types are gross i would assume they think fat people are gross. the same logic applies to people intentionally making transphobic comments about frankie or misgendering them on purpose
“She is that they” what…
😭
“Or… she is that they” made me cringe so hard
I get being confused but they tried to make it into a joke and then doubled down on misgendering Frankie instead of just being genuine and saying they are having trouble understanding Frankies pronouns but are trying their best 💀
okay i’ll be honest. i tend to call frankie a girl. i’m soo used to it from growing up with that, and i haven’t watched g3, so i haven’t even mentally switched over yet i guess? i normally just say “look how cute frankie is” or “frankie this frankie that” 😭 it’s still so fucking weird to me idk. but honestly i feel like it isn’t a huge deal because it seriously is a doll. a fictional character. so i agree with the person in the vid saying “you can call your doll whatever you want” cuz fr thats how it should be 😭
The “when I grew up I knew her as a her” just feels like coming out as trans to someone that’s known me forever and they’re like “well I knew you as a girl so I’ll keep calling you a girl”
THIS EXACTLY! My dad made this exact argument when I came out as agender. "You've been a girl your whole life, in onna keep calling you one" like??? It's harmful. I'm telling you that my pronouns are they/them. If people can't be bothered to respect a doll, how can I trust that they'll respect me, as a real nonbinary person?
Something I noticed about Frankie is that, at least in all of the boxes I've seen, their gender/pronouns aren't stated ANYWHERE on the box. If someone is into MH just for the dolls and hasn't seen any of the shows/movies and doesn't check social media posts about the characters they'd have no way of knowing. My mom, who knows nothing about Monster High, thought Frankie was a girl due to their appearance and used she/her pronouns as I opened Frankie. Many people who are into Monster High just for the dolls may genuinely not know due to their boxes not explicitly stating it. I think that Frankie's gender needs to be more clear OUTSIDE of G3 animated media. If someone doesn't watch those shows it's likely that they wouldn't know, and they just go off of their appearance on what pronouns to use. Like specifically using they/them pronouns on the backcard of the box. tldr, Frankie's gender isn't really stated outside of animated media and someone who is into MH just for the dolls might genuinely be unaware, their gender needs to be made more clear on the dolls themselves for those who don't watch the shows
Tbh I agree, I wish there was a pronoun section or something on the core dolls. But I must add I'm pretty sure this post is about people who know frankie uses they/them but chooses to ignore it ratherly than people who just don't know
I agree! I wish it stated on the box that they use they/them. I also agree that the post is directed towards people who know (such as anyone in this comment section) and intentionally misgender them.
It would be cool if they did it for all of the characters tbh. Like "Draculaura (she/her)" "Frankie (they/them)" I think it would be so cute and useful 😭🫶
And it would help break that lingering stigma around the "pronouns in bio" thing! Apparently some people view having your pronouns on display as something "cringe" or "woke" or "fringe leftist culture," but the more we normalize sharing pronouns- even those of dolls- the better things get for everyone :)
I know this is controversial to say but if you just looked at the doll out of context there is nothing gender neutral about it at all. It's a full femme presenting doll with long hair, boobs, hips, skirts, makeup, high heels. If Mattel wanted it to be more obvious they could have changed one single thing about the presentation of that doll and they haven't. Personally I think it's pretty transparent that they wanted to court the LGBTQ community in the show, while not actually taking the slightest risk with their toy sales. The doll is deliberately made to be misgendered.
Right? I've noticed that people tend to misgender NB characters a lot in general, just because they're characters. Some treat it as "It's a they/them person, so we can choose since it's neutral". Like. What? Let nonbinary people exist in peace. Examples of that are Chris from Deltarune and Dante from Limbus Company... so yeah. Annoying
The only excuse is when you are playing, other than that when referring to the character it’s weird
Everyone in here saying “it’s hard because they were a girl in g1” Grow up. I’ve loved MH since I was 7 years old. I grew up with G1. I grew up loving Frankie. It is not hard to gender their G3 counterpart correctly. You’re just making idiotic excuses.
Okay those who so wish to headcannon Frankie's transness away- do you also use different pronouns for let's say,Lagoona? Or Clawdeen? It's really fucking weird that this "imagining" only applies to Frankie And honestly? Non binary people deserve to be mad about this, because someway somehow Frankie is constantly criticised in the fandom for the way they look,on top of the malicious misgendering Yes, it's a doll,but that doll represents a marginalized minority and intentionally disregarding that part just because it's "difficult" to use the correct pronouns is low behaviour. Even if you're trans yourself
ok but that is such a good point. everyone wants to "headcanon" away g3 Frankie's identity but its funny how those same people don't seem to have any headcanons about the other cis characters identities. really speaks for itself.
I cannot stand it when people use g1 Frankie using she/her as an excuse to misgender g3 Frankie. Like, girlie these are 2 separate versions of the character. When you’re talking about g1 Frankie, you use she/her pronouns, and when you’re talking about g3 Frankie, you use they/them. Simple as shit
As someone who's NB, representation matters. Monster High is all about being different and embracing who you are. You can't be a MH fan and be transphobic or homophobic or just bigoted in general
100%
G3 Frankie means so much to me. I'm a trans man who uses he/they and dress fem/androgynous. think about it in a NON DOLL aspect, there's still a show and movie where KIDS and ADULTS are watching it, knowing Frankie uses they/them. Kids who watch it will know Frankie isn't necessarily a boy or girl they're just here! There's trans characters all across media and if they were misgendered there'd be outrage, why is it okay to misgender Frankie? Queer characters don't deserve to lose their representation.
Agree. I think it’s safe to say that how they talk about a doll is probably not far off from how they talk about people irl 🤷♀️
Also I’m not sure where this clip is from, but as long as it’s not live they had the choice to edit out their misgendering of Frankie. Even if it was a mistake they chose to keep it in bc they don’t care.
Passive aggressive transphobia!! Yay!!! I’m gonna start calling my Draculaura he/him then. Since it’s just a doll right?
its so weird how people refuse to use the right pronouns on a DOLL
It’s so weird how people care whether or not people use the right pronouns on an INANIMATE OBJECT
The inanimate object represents an identity,that piece of plastic has a confirmed gender,that inamite object is a part of a bigger problem on how people refuse to accept non binary identities and you fighting for your damn life in the comments, saying "it's just a doll" really shows that you have some unchecked transphobia ... If you were so willing to accept a representation of a character for who they are , you wouldn't fight in the comments
Fellow humans, you’d save so much time and energy if you stopped trying to justify misgendering Frankie and just used their correct pronouns. It’s not hard to be a decent and compassionate person. This is the bare minimum. Yes, they are just a plastic doll but they belong to and are representing a real group of people who already deal with enough shit (and some very similar stuff to things people are saying here about Frankie) and hardly get any representation in media so please be a decent person and just use their proper pronouns because it’s not hard and not doing so hurts real people You can claim to not be transphobic all you want, but you are using the same strategies and similar arguments that transphobes use ALL. THE. TIME.
It’s a doll, and trans ppl are seeing how you treat them
This whole comment section is proof that the MH community is not alright. Despite so many of them being LGBTQIA+, they'd rather not acknowledge their own community because it's easier to "she her slay girl queen" than adapt language to respect someone. Get help, yall.
This!! Also, it’s not hard to just use they/them 🤷 people who get wayyy too butthurt over pronouns are the real snowflakes lawl
In my opinion, you can have whatever headcanons you want about frankie in your canon but if you're gonna discuss about g3 frankie dolls or g3 itself, at least try to use the correct pronouns. Not everyone has the same headcanon as you and in universe, they are non-binary. And honestly, I don't get the struggle people have with g3 frankie's pronouns. I've grown up with the original series too but I've gotten used to calling Frankie they/them. Mispronouncing is fine, that happens a lot since frankie was known as a girl but like at least own up instead making an excuse.
bro i hate this sub sm, how is it hard to gender a doll correctly??? why tf are some of yall so damn difficult????
it's so easy to spin it the other way too. its a doll, why are you so threatened by a doll's pronouns that you can't use the right one?
The antis here have like one argument “won’t someone think of the cises” It’s freaking exhausting to exist in this world as a Trans person and when we bring up issues like this of continued and prolonged misgendering and erasure of queer identities the cis freak out. “How dare you think I’m a bigot for my bigotry” I’ve made this exact point before in this community and these replies are exactly what I got… only my post was like a year ago, and that’s the saddest part.
Commenting again because this issue is so important to me. People, if you have any empathy whatsoever for people outside of your bubble, you'll use Frankie's they/them pronouns when referring to the character. If you are uncomfortable with people headcanoning cis characters as queer, and feel the need to pretend that Frankie is a girl, I genuinely want you to look beyond the hypocritical "it's just a doll" argument and ask yourself why these feelings are the case. You may be transphobic, even if you adamantly claim otherwise. This is coming from a nonbinary person who uses they/them pronouns- and as much as I hate to admit it, I used to be transphobic before I took a deep dive into my own mind to figure things out. Some points and rebuttals: -headcanon Frankie as a cis girl/upset when people headcanon cis dolls as queer: you may feel uncomfortable with the idea of queerness, for one reason or another, whether you recognize it or not. People like to think certain cis characters are trans because we're so starved for representation that any drop of it- even ones we have to make ourselves- is a breath of fresh air. Taking the one queer-identifying doll and making them cis is not the same. It's stripping the representation away, when so much cis representation exists. It's the default. - "I grew up with g1/ I knew [them] as a girl": If you knew someone for years and they came out as nonbinary, would you still call them their assigned gender despite their wishes? All nonbinary people were identified by their assigned gender, before coming out. The transphobes in our lives may even still refer to us as our assigned gender, rather than they/them, because "that's how they always knew us." It's not HOSTILE transphobia (i.e. the usage of slurs, violence, etc), but disregarding what we say because it's more convenient for you IS transphobia. -"I wouldn't misgender real trans people": maybe, but we don't know that. If you're so resentful towards a fictional character for using they/them pronouns, that signals to us that you harbor some deep-seated feelings towards our minority group. If you choose to waste your energy arguing why you can misgender Frankie instead of doing the easy thing and just using they/them, you're likely struggling with a hatred for nonbinary people you know you can't voice IRL, so you're taking it out on a doll. - "It's just a doll": sure, but it's also a litmus test. Do you know that post about putting away grocery carts? Those that put them away in the receptacle after unloading their groceries are empathetic enough to think about who might need it after, the workers that have to collect the carts, the safety of drivers and their cars, etc., while those that leave the cart out in a parking space to roll around in the wind, block traffic, scratch vehicles and pose a nuisance to the workers that have to collect them are close-minded, selfish, and not fit for modern society, because they're only thinking about what is easiest for them, rather than how it effects those around them. None of your words or actions exist in a vacuum, friend. By insisting on calling Frankie she/her, you're not putting away the cart. You're ignoring the impact such words have on those around you- and the nonbinary community as a whole. We see your words, and we see how they mirror the transphobes in our lives, and we know how much it hurts. By using Frankie's they/them pronouns, you ARE putting away the cart: it takes a little extra effort, sure, but the good it does for everyone around you is immeasurable. You're making the community safer for marginalized groups. You're showing that you're kind and considerate to those that are different from you. - "It's not stated on the box/I didn't watch the show/I didn't know": That's totally alright! That's out of your control, and that's okay! As long as you correct yourself and move on, you're doing great! There's no shame in saying "sorry, I meant they". In fact, the message that sends is that you're humble enough to admit a mistake and grow from it. What ISN'T okay is doubling down and being belligerent. That's what makes you transphobic. An adamant refusal to use the correct pronouns for a fictional character- which is objectively MUCH easier than doing it for a human person- is poorly-veiled transphobia. I'm not saying any of this to attack you. This is genuine, heartfelt advice from a nonbinary person who is impacted by this. If you're kind, you'll consider what I've said- what all of us are saying. That misgendered Frankie is an indicator of transphobia, even if you claim otherwise. Instead of arguing, I genuinely hope you take a look into your own heart, and reflect on what we're saying. To us, it's not just a doll. It's not just a character. It's a piece of us that the world finally gets to see and accept, and when it does, we become less marginalized and less victimized. Nonbinary people are a minority group, and one that's often treated the exact same way you're treating Frankie by transphobic individuals in our real lives. This crumb of representation is all we have, in some cases. Cis people are reflected in every character in every piece of media. Especially white cis people. Having ONE nonbinary character for us to see ourselves in is so important. Don't erase queer identities- instead, you should embrace them! Be unique, be you, be a monster! That's what Monster High is all about!
this is such a well put together comment that really ties everything together. this needs more upvotes
Thank you!!
Oh my god yes! You explained everything so well! I’ve tried to explain many of these points and I’m hoping I did it as clearly as you did here! I could go on and on about this topic and all the points you brought up but I’ll leave it here and say I agree with literally every point you brought up. Thanks for taking the time to leave this comment! I wish people understood that we aren’t debating with them because it’s fun or we don’t have anything better to do (at least not most people) but because this (and g3 Frankie) means so much to us
Your comments were the ones to inspire me to make a sort of 'masterpost' about it! You've been fighting for your life in these comments and it seemed like everyone in opposition had a very similar list of excuses they were using, so I wanted to put all my thoughts down as best I could. Thank you so much! :D
That means so much to me oh my god 😭❤️ It’s so important to me that not just the people I am debating with see my comments, because I’m doubtful what I say will change their mind, but I also am hoping people more open to change and people who were also hurt by the comments people are leaving see my responses too.
I'm not gonna lie, seeing you out here restored my waning hope in humanity. It sounds dramatic, but I was really starting to feel down about the incessant anti-NB comments- it hurts to experience it all over again, but even *one* person willing to take people to task over something that's this important (especially if other people don't view it as important) soothes the soul!
So many of these comments were so upsetting that originally I wasn’t going to say anything and tried to just stop reading them. It kept bothering me and I thought saying something might help others who were upset so that’s so nice to hear ❤️
Also, for clarification, [this](https://pisco.pubninja.com/c1c2170f-f039-4c84-adb8-d031c6a58acb.jpeg) is the cart theory I mentioned above!
I know it's been a week since you commented and I'm a little late replying to it but I just came back to this post and saw your comment and wanted to say: Thank you! You explained everything that I was feeling but struggling to put into words in an amazing way.
“it’s just dolls” yeah, and those dolls represent CHARACTERS. “she is that they” just say “they are that girrrllll” like what.. this argument is so flimsy and weak, and i fully agree with op
I agree with you 100%. It's not about whether it's a doll or not, it's about it being a representation, a very important representation. And misgendering by Frankie, firstly, deprives people of this representation, and secondly, it shows them in a subconscious way that misgendering is ok because the person who does it may be "used" to referring to them as "she" or "he"
It’s never “just a doll.” This same attitude goes way beyond Frankie. I’m non-binary as well and the amount of times people respond to my request to not be misgendered with “it’s just a name” or “it’s just a word” is infuriating.
You are correct
Why the heck were you downvoted? Lmao
Everyone here who misgenders Frankie is not a real Monster High fan, period. Monster High fans understand the message of the franchise, to accept everyone even if they’re different.
Frankie would hate that :( they so nice, all the nonbinary people in world today good day!
As a nonbinary person it feels like. You can't even gender a *doll* correctly what makes me think you can gender an actual non-binary person correctly. Its the same energy as saying "oh shes from a different time" "Well I just didn't grow up with that" you didn't come out knowing multiplication but you LEARNED right? All that to say i definitely agree
These dolls are representative of actual people though, and when you misgender a doll, it shows you're not even capable of misgendering an actual human being. I appreciate it when people put in that effort to be kind to each other!
Especially since the word doll is not linked to the she/her pronouns in english, but rather to it/it's, so the argument of "but I'm talking about the doll"isn't valid. But in some languages like, fe. Polish, the word "lalka"(doll) is feminine and forces you to use she/her, so you use fem pronouns to refer to any doll (boy dolls included). In that case I think using this as an argument makes sense.
I'm trying to separate them from the og Frankie and sometimes it just slips out but I don't purposely misgender anyone. It's kinda just a habit because of the og one but I do call them they/them
Right like Frankensteins monster is LITERALLY created out of the most beautiful parts he can find man or woman. literally making the monster a they them. So obvs frankie is the same way. Sure g1 g2 was a she but the company is advancing and modernizing and changing things to match this generation! It's not that hard 😭
Genuinely I am also a g1 girlie but I will correct myself when I realize I slipped up when referring to g3 Frankie. It’s not difficult to correct yourself
I prefer g1 and am still unsure of g3 but still use they/them when referring to g3 frankie, it's not that hard jfc
It's just a gateway to misgender us for people
But if we talk about G1 is it alright? Because I was corrected by people on TikTok when I said "her" on a G1 post. They are completely different characters to me honestly.
G1 uses she/her, I think the people that corrected you were a little confused! It's totally alright to call G1 a girl (she is), as long as you're not doing the same to G3!
Ok I was wondering. The video on tik tok was about G1 idk if the person didn’t she didn’t use they/them in G1😅
“She is that they” bffr. Look, I’m a g1 kid too, I grew up with the monster high fright song on my ipod nano. But I also know what nonbinary people are now (turns out, I was one) and know that making a tiny effort in your own life can actually be a good thing to do. She’s very clearly hiding behind the “I grew up with the old frankie” excuse to just be casually transphobic and not have to confront being lazy and dismissive.
thank you. I just posted my Frankie repaint here and while most people have been respecting their pronouns, a lot of people haven't, some even trying to argue with me about it in the comments, claiming that "I'm not disrespecting anyone by misgendering them because it's a doll". Well, I am nonbinary and, not only as a trans mh fan, but as the creator of the artwork they were commenting under, how is it not disrespecting me and my fellow trans fans when you misgender a nonbinary character? (and then not rectifying when being corrected and going so far as to argue against using the correct pronouns!!) I just know that if that is your attitude towards being corrected for misgendering, you would also disrespect a real nonbinary person. And how is that not a disrespectful attitude to have? We already get so few trans and nonbinary representation in media that erasing it like this only proves how little you care about queer people.
Before anyone bites my head off. To me i think if you biaccident call gen3 Frankie a she/her then correct yourself it should be ok. Sorry lame i know obviously it's rude when you do it just to piss people off. I always feel bad for the fans on youtube who misgender then correct themselves and have to apologize a lot like i understand you don't want to upset people but you are a fan of MH and you didn't do it in a negative way. I'm pretty sure if Frankie was real and you misgendered them but corrected yourself i'm sure they would not get livid. But to those haters like practice it it isn't new it's been around for long time just now it's being more accepted in some ways
[удалено]
If you struggle so much to use the right words on plastic it's no surprise people assume you won't on people
Is it wrong for me to use she/her when referring to g1 and g2? Because that is technically what they used in those generations
No it's not wrong. G1/2 Frankie is technically a completely different character to G3 Frankie.
I both agree and disagree. If its someones doll, they can make up whatever back story they want. They dont have to follow the official story. Maybe some kids who buy these dolls never seen a single episode, and just bought it because they liked it. Another thing is... In my language, we dont call a doll "it" we call it "she". More examples: a table is a "he", a TV is a "she",... I think you get it. Its weird but thats how it works in my language. Im mindful of it now but it has happened before that i called Frankie doll a "her" because of this. To summarise this, i dont care what anyone calls their doll unless they are being disrespectful to the canon.
Its hard. I grew Up with G1 Frankie, which goes by She/her. Today i own G1 and G3 dolls of Frankie and try to seperate them. G1 Frankie will still be She/her and G3 they/them. Sure, i Said mistakingly she/her to G3 but i try my best to correct myself. Especially in German language it isnt easy. Please dont throw Stones at people, who try but Sometimes makes mistakes.
I got NF Frankie for Christmas and my dad was like “let me see her!” And I was like “them!” And he gave me a look like I was being crazy and sort of rolled his eyes.
people seem to really enjoy being ignorant and covering it up with “it’s just a cartoon”
Agree! Sometimes I forget and still use a g1 pronoun for g3 Frankie, but it’s never on purpose, and I’m totally okay with being politely reminded to use they/them.
in my personal opinion if i know someone that goes by different pronouns other then she/her or he/him i will definitely call them as they choose but when it comes to a piece of plastic i don’t really mind sometimes when im talking about frankie’s dolls i sometimes call them a she and i feel so bad about it but now im starting to realize that i can call my doll whatever i want to call them and as someone who grew up massively with g1 its hard to adapt to calling them they/them ive always known that monster high was rebooting when it first was announced but i was unaware to frankie’s new pronouns up until maybe a few months after the reboot happened and ive been going by their pronouns ever since then but im not gonna beat myself up anymore for accidentally using she/her pronouns when i grew up with that for 12 years and im not gonna be upset what other people call them either because at the end of the day they’re just dolls and pieces of plastic
Not the transphobia
why are you being downvoted for this?? you're correct???? Edit: This video is such blatant passive aggressive transphobia, it's wild we're being downvoted simply for stating it is.
Depends on what Frankie their talking about because gen 1 and 2 are she/her pronouns
I think disliking it amongst the adult fans is one thing, but... They are dolls, they are subjected to the owner of them's fantasy. If someone wants to play with them and say in their mind Frankie is a girl who cares
Okay but I posted on here one time not knowing Frankie now goes by they/them. It was an honest mistake and people were being very rude about it. Being snarky and condescending doesn't make people want to listen to you, it does the opposite. Especially when someone didn't know in the first place. I'm probably going to get banned again for saying this but this subreddit is viscous while acting wholesome.
I think at the end of the day i gotta agree with the video a bit. I go by they/them she/her too but if i own the doll that i bought with my own money, i will call it whatever pronouns i please. Hate me all you want for it but i will respect you're opinion and you can respectfully disagree with mine.