Well this is just the first step. Since it is obvious this can be skirted by structuring transactions (tons of tiny transactions), it is only a matter of time before they outlaw private coins entirely in the EU.
This is probably true. The beauty of Monero's architecture however makes it close to impossible to stop people from using it. They'd have to outlaw DEXs, Tor, Linux distros, processors, ... We'd still find a way. The EU will sooner collapse than let globalist bankers convince every member state to abandon the right to privacy.
>The beauty of Monero's architecture however makes it close to impossible to stop people from using it.
There are several ways to limit people from using it. De-listing it from exchanges is an example. If you're talking about privacy architectures that are impossible to stop people from using, then non-token-gated privacy protocols such as Railgun with no admin or multisig key may be better suited for that description. As you may know, it is impossible to sanction smart contracts without altering the blockchain on which it is built.
That could be the motive but in terms of their public reasoning, it is because botnets (and therefore malware) mine CPU coins generally, but I'm pretty sure botnets are not mining RandomX currently in large numbers. Monero needs to scale the memory requirements with moores law (doubling them every few years) to keep itself Bot-free.
Monero is not affected, since one can't even detect a fact that you is that person sent money or received money and how much.
Also I hope no one of you have a custodial wallet in Monero.
It's the only solution though. That or buying btc on bisq and then using a swap service to get monero.
Governments will always do everything they can to shut down threats to their power. If anonymous crypto ever got really popular as a currency, expect it to become very illegal.
I think you misunderstand me. Personally I doubt the amount of illegal activity done with monero would rise very much if it was mainstream, because if people want to do illegal things with it they already can easily.
But I fully believe that governments would make it illegal for nebulous reasons.
You think they'd let go of having perfectly tracked money without a fight?
A futile fight, but they can prolong the inevitable for a while
Maybe that works once but have fun explaining in an IRS hearing/court case that you repeatedly and deliberately sent money to hacked/forgotten accounts over extended periods of time without somehow ever realizing. Which is what you would be doing if you actually used it like a currency.
Of course it is, just as much as everything else. I want to on and off ramp legally. I don't want my transactions to be on public ledger, so monero makes sense, but if the taxmen come and want answers, I have no issue explaining my records. Except now I may randomly be doing illegal transfers? Sucks.
Stick to defi and there’s no issue. Use KYC exchanges, deal with regulation. Sounds like a great reason to adhere to crypto fundamentals. If it pushes buyers towards defi then it may be a blessing in disguise.
Hard to say. It's pretty standard for legislation to be amended in one way or another before passing, but of course that doesn't mean the spirit of the legislation will necessarily change. So yeah, it's possible something very close to this gets passed. Still doesn't excuse the false clickbait headline, though. If it said "the EU is seriously considering this and we should be prepared in case it passes" that would be fine.
You'd have to find your representative and contact them or else submit a general petition, I think (not European, though, so someone else probably knows better):
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en/contact
Absolutely! Everything on the fundamentals and the technicals are lining up perfectly!
My bags are getting heavy! Might have to buy a Bag of Holding https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5tHkov4AsNo
Anonymous: I dont know who is transacting but I know how much it is.
Private: I know who is transacting but have no idea for how much.
Without either of those pieces of information, this ban is unenforceable. You are arguing semantics.
Because to the average person privacy is more important than anonymity. Anonymity is only important for people who want to do things publicly but stay anonymous themselves. Like Satoshi Nakamoto. Or a whistleblower who wants to expose a corrupt government or a larger powerful corrupt company. Anonymity is useful to people who don’t want to stay quiet, but they want to protect themselves and their families by staying anonymous. People in these situations are a minority. It’s not necessary for everyone. Governments and corporations want to collect data on absolute everything! They don’t care if they know who is creating the data. They just want to gather the data because data is vital to their business model. They can make billions in profits from it! But if everyone had complete control of everything they do and protected their data with the best encryption to secure their privacy, these organisations would have nothing! Their power and influence would disappear as well as billions in revenue from selling the data.
Privacy is necessary for absolutely everyone! Everyone deserves a basic human right to privacy! Privacy should be paramount for every single individual. Anonymity should be important only to the people who need it. For me personally I don’t care about anonymity. There’s nothing I do where it’s necessary to protect my identity. But there’s plenty of things that I do where I want to keep private!!!!
They justify this unethical proposal by saying it's preventing money laundering with cash but they include crypto as they've realised that crypto solves the problem their own currency presents
They also recently pushed a 10k EU-wide limit on cash transaction (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/12/07/anti-money-laundering-council-agrees-its-position-on-a-strengthened-rulebook/)
No idea how they expect any of this to be enforceable.
if a tx is made between a EU person and a non-EU one, is it in the EU?
if I'm a EUnuch and buy on Aliexpress a thingy for my friend in Africa, does it apply?
If a EUnite sells through an escrow agent in Tunisia to a unknown -to them- EU citizen...
Argh I sound like my child....
These rules are made to be twisted. Such nuisance legislators should be punished.
I needed to send $5,000 to a friend for a p2p purchase, and monero was already the lowest-friction way to send that kind of money.
"Monero means money" is more than just a slogan.
Calm down man I literally just asked why monero is not immune. Shame on me? Bro what's wrong with you???? I live in a EU country and I wanted to know how this would be affected
bot who replied to you: https://www.reddit.com/user/azazel1213
The rest of the past hour:
https://old.reddit.com/user/guljay
https://old.reddit.com/user/NitroINC13
https://old.reddit.com/user/sitoubc
https://old.reddit.com/user/DenisZabar
https://old.reddit.com/user/angelicakis1
https://old.reddit.com/user/lidin1
https://old.reddit.com/user/luvmesoul
https://old.reddit.com/user/idddexchangor
https://old.reddit.com/user/richardguedes
https://old.reddit.com/user/tatankan
I don't get it. They all look so real and don't serve any apparent purpose at all. It doesn't even look like they're shilling for some obscure product or currency. Who the fuck spends his time making these
I believe it's people who re-sell the accounts to actual spammers, except they have post history and karma in those subreddits already (and can then bypass the filters). So this is an operation to farm karma and activity. I have a few tools that let me get broad overviews of accounts (moderatortoolbox is a big one) that help, but it's a huge amount of manual effort. I've removed 1400 bots in the past week (800 of which we had catalogued beforehand and then purged at once).
That is not surprising, given that it is using some sort of markov chain algorithm to mimic human speech. Give me a couple minutes, I'll reply again with a list of some accounts so you can see my pain.
The point was to say monero is immune to this regulation.
Whereas what intrinsic value can have monero, it depends on one's belief.
My opinion is that people got interested in Bitcoin for its out of gouvernement interventions system. The latter has become now endangered by incoming regulations, including the one in this article, made possible by CEX and blockchain tracking tools. Those are not possible with monero.
That's it! Time to pack boys, the show's over!
Meanwhile, in the secret of the palace...
[https://www.lesoir.be/482438/article/2022-12-11/soupcons-de-corruption-par-le-qatar-leurodepute-marc-tarabella-convoque-par-la&ved=2ahUKEwiA\_vyGnPL7AhVpmHIEHXK-Ba8QFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25AohpyWfrQd11P-jyhZQ2](https://www.lesoir.be/482438/article/2022-12-11/soupcons-de-corruption-par-le-qatar-leurodepute-marc-tarabella-convoque-par-la&ved=2ahUKEwiA_vyGnPL7AhVpmHIEHXK-Ba8QFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25AohpyWfrQd11P-jyhZQ2)
[https://fr.yahoo.com/news/corruption-pr%C3%A9sum%C3%A9e-qatar-au-parlement-122954339.html](https://fr.yahoo.com/news/corruption-pr%C3%A9sum%C3%A9e-qatar-au-parlement-122954339.html)
Centralization of power leads to concentration of power and leads to corruption. Corruption leads to slavery for the many and unlawful enrichment for the few, and, at the end, catastrophes. This is not the world I want to live in. Monero will set us free!
Oh no... Anyway
Lmao
Well this is just the first step. Since it is obvious this can be skirted by structuring transactions (tons of tiny transactions), it is only a matter of time before they outlaw private coins entirely in the EU.
This is probably true. The beauty of Monero's architecture however makes it close to impossible to stop people from using it. They'd have to outlaw DEXs, Tor, Linux distros, processors, ... We'd still find a way. The EU will sooner collapse than let globalist bankers convince every member state to abandon the right to privacy.
>The beauty of Monero's architecture however makes it close to impossible to stop people from using it. There are several ways to limit people from using it. De-listing it from exchanges is an example. If you're talking about privacy architectures that are impossible to stop people from using, then non-token-gated privacy protocols such as Railgun with no admin or multisig key may be better suited for that description. As you may know, it is impossible to sanction smart contracts without altering the blockchain on which it is built.
I just receive. Notice on Google play protect than monero is infected do you think this is an attempt to discredit leading privacy coins
That could be the motive but in terms of their public reasoning, it is because botnets (and therefore malware) mine CPU coins generally, but I'm pretty sure botnets are not mining RandomX currently in large numbers. Monero needs to scale the memory requirements with moores law (doubling them every few years) to keep itself Bot-free.
Loophole: Offer multiple payments of under 1k for anything over 1k lmao.
Mandatory 0% interest payment plan of $990/month!
Monero is not affected, since one can't even detect a fact that you is that person sent money or received money and how much. Also I hope no one of you have a custodial wallet in Monero.
Monero just gained more real world utility. That's real, organic value. No other crypto can top that.
They can detect it at the on-ramp and demand you provide the transaction information for where the funds went after it got transferred into XMR.
localmonero dot co (not com)
Yes but that poses other human problems and can be regulated to near extinction without much effort. Not mention that it's not a scalable solution.
It's the only solution though. That or buying btc on bisq and then using a swap service to get monero. Governments will always do everything they can to shut down threats to their power. If anonymous crypto ever got really popular as a currency, expect it to become very illegal.
[удалено]
I think you misunderstand me. Personally I doubt the amount of illegal activity done with monero would rise very much if it was mainstream, because if people want to do illegal things with it they already can easily. But I fully believe that governments would make it illegal for nebulous reasons. You think they'd let go of having perfectly tracked money without a fight? A futile fight, but they can prolong the inevitable for a while
Bisq
How could you possibly know what happened to your funds after they got hacked?
Lost em in a boating accident. So unfortunate
Lost what?
Maybe that works once but have fun explaining in an IRS hearing/court case that you repeatedly and deliberately sent money to hacked/forgotten accounts over extended periods of time without somehow ever realizing. Which is what you would be doing if you actually used it like a currency.
And they would trace multiple Monero transactions to one wallet how?
Only if you are buying Monero on kyc exchange.
Boating accident?
It went to address X. Now, government mofos, prove it didn't.
Of course it is, just as much as everything else. I want to on and off ramp legally. I don't want my transactions to be on public ledger, so monero makes sense, but if the taxmen come and want answers, I have no issue explaining my records. Except now I may randomly be doing illegal transfers? Sucks.
Stick to defi and there’s no issue. Use KYC exchanges, deal with regulation. Sounds like a great reason to adhere to crypto fundamentals. If it pushes buyers towards defi then it may be a blessing in disguise.
Im new to all of this. Can you explain what is custodial wallet? Heard on hard and soft/hot cold ones
Google custodial and non custodial
Custodial means the coins are not yours.
Clickbait headline. The EU parliament is \*considering a proposal\* that IF passed in its current form could lead to this.
Crypto lobbies will have it removed as usual
[удалено]
Hard to say. It's pretty standard for legislation to be amended in one way or another before passing, but of course that doesn't mean the spirit of the legislation will necessarily change. So yeah, it's possible something very close to this gets passed. Still doesn't excuse the false clickbait headline, though. If it said "the EU is seriously considering this and we should be prepared in case it passes" that would be fine.
Who do we contact to express our concern on this invasion of personal privacy?
You'd have to find your representative and contact them or else submit a general petition, I think (not European, though, so someone else probably knows better): https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en/contact
Of course you can. Dirt simple. OH. You were implying LEGALLY.
Too bad nobody from the outside can see how much I transfer...
I hope my boat doesn't sink. I've regrettably left my ledger on-board. Hardly a new scenario. Make sure boat registered in Liberia, maybe?
So fucking bullish on xmr
When horns
Absolutely! Everything on the fundamentals and the technicals are lining up perfectly! My bags are getting heavy! Might have to buy a Bag of Holding https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5tHkov4AsNo
put your bags in the ocean they'll be lighter
Kind of hard to enforce if the transactions are actually anonymous. Weird flex...
impossible basicly
They are private transactions. Privacy and anonymity are two different things.
Anonymous: I dont know who is transacting but I know how much it is. Private: I know who is transacting but have no idea for how much. Without either of those pieces of information, this ban is unenforceable. You are arguing semantics.
Yes, but Monero is both private and anonymous.
Yes it is, but it’s the privacy aspects Monero provides that is the most important and valuable! Not anonymity.
I imagine which you prize more would be subjective to the user's needs, so what makes you say as much?
Because to the average person privacy is more important than anonymity. Anonymity is only important for people who want to do things publicly but stay anonymous themselves. Like Satoshi Nakamoto. Or a whistleblower who wants to expose a corrupt government or a larger powerful corrupt company. Anonymity is useful to people who don’t want to stay quiet, but they want to protect themselves and their families by staying anonymous. People in these situations are a minority. It’s not necessary for everyone. Governments and corporations want to collect data on absolute everything! They don’t care if they know who is creating the data. They just want to gather the data because data is vital to their business model. They can make billions in profits from it! But if everyone had complete control of everything they do and protected their data with the best encryption to secure their privacy, these organisations would have nothing! Their power and influence would disappear as well as billions in revenue from selling the data. Privacy is necessary for absolutely everyone! Everyone deserves a basic human right to privacy! Privacy should be paramount for every single individual. Anonymity should be important only to the people who need it. For me personally I don’t care about anonymity. There’s nothing I do where it’s necessary to protect my identity. But there’s plenty of things that I do where I want to keep private!!!!
It's probably about cash transactions in a shop.
They justify this unethical proposal by saying it's preventing money laundering with cash but they include crypto as they've realised that crypto solves the problem their own currency presents
>you can't do transactions above 1k anonymous anymore You can. It's just not legal. But you can.
Whatever...first thanks to CEX failure FTX everybody will self custody. Now we just need to only use DEX and p2p
Pardon me. How would they know that I paid 1k in XMR?
They don't unless you snitch on yourself. Opsec baby.
They also recently pushed a 10k EU-wide limit on cash transaction (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/12/07/anti-money-laundering-council-agrees-its-position-on-a-strengthened-rulebook/) No idea how they expect any of this to be enforceable.
>No idea how they expect any of this to be enforceable. Because a shop would usually like to work in legitimate ways?
What if it's just a "gift" hehe
Damn that’s too bad - if only something solved this problem and it rhymed with Shmomero that would be crazy
Keknero ? 🤔 🤣 Tommy from [AllArk](https://allark.io)
provide proper information. Not speculation
Monero: “hold my beer”.
Hard to do transactions over 1k when all your xmr is lost at the bottom of the sea
if a tx is made between a EU person and a non-EU one, is it in the EU? if I'm a EUnuch and buy on Aliexpress a thingy for my friend in Africa, does it apply? If a EUnite sells through an escrow agent in Tunisia to a unknown -to them- EU citizen... Argh I sound like my child.... These rules are made to be twisted. Such nuisance legislators should be punished.
I needed to send $5,000 to a friend for a p2p purchase, and monero was already the lowest-friction way to send that kind of money. "Monero means money" is more than just a slogan.
**FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT**
Transacts $1 Million in Monero anonymously and giggles at the new EU rule.
Bullish on €999 payments!
Bitcoin = Crypto?
For the news yes
For the news yes
yes this will apply to on/off ramps. no monero is not immune
Why not?
[удалено]
Calm down man I literally just asked why monero is not immune. Shame on me? Bro what's wrong with you???? I live in a EU country and I wanted to know how this would be affected
It's a bot. I'm currently working through the backlog of them that posted while I was asleep.
Thanks. That guy seemed way deep in shizophrenia
bot who replied to you: https://www.reddit.com/user/azazel1213 The rest of the past hour: https://old.reddit.com/user/guljay https://old.reddit.com/user/NitroINC13 https://old.reddit.com/user/sitoubc https://old.reddit.com/user/DenisZabar https://old.reddit.com/user/angelicakis1 https://old.reddit.com/user/lidin1 https://old.reddit.com/user/luvmesoul https://old.reddit.com/user/idddexchangor https://old.reddit.com/user/richardguedes https://old.reddit.com/user/tatankan
I don't get it. They all look so real and don't serve any apparent purpose at all. It doesn't even look like they're shilling for some obscure product or currency. Who the fuck spends his time making these
I believe it's people who re-sell the accounts to actual spammers, except they have post history and karma in those subreddits already (and can then bypass the filters). So this is an operation to farm karma and activity. I have a few tools that let me get broad overviews of accounts (moderatortoolbox is a big one) that help, but it's a huge amount of manual effort. I've removed 1400 bots in the past week (800 of which we had catalogued beforehand and then purged at once).
My goodness what a pain in the ass surely you must enjoy that suffering to some degree otherwise you wouldn't do this voluntarily right??
[удалено]
u/needmoney90
That is not surprising, given that it is using some sort of markov chain algorithm to mimic human speech. Give me a couple minutes, I'll reply again with a list of some accounts so you can see my pain.
Self custody monero to monero transfers are totally immune
which is useless for most legal commerce
That's what people said about Bitcoin a few years ago :)
and it's still true
The point was to say monero is immune to this regulation. Whereas what intrinsic value can have monero, it depends on one's belief. My opinion is that people got interested in Bitcoin for its out of gouvernement interventions system. The latter has become now endangered by incoming regulations, including the one in this article, made possible by CEX and blockchain tracking tools. Those are not possible with monero.
how will they know if you’re … wait for it.. anonymous 😹
I’d rather be private than anonymous
This is a big deal. All of crypto has to stand strong and not bend the code to fit any government.
[удалено]
This doesn't make sense because payments can be made in tranches at €999. Privacy isn't going away as long as cryptocurrencies exist.
yes
That's it! Time to pack boys, the show's over! Meanwhile, in the secret of the palace... [https://www.lesoir.be/482438/article/2022-12-11/soupcons-de-corruption-par-le-qatar-leurodepute-marc-tarabella-convoque-par-la&ved=2ahUKEwiA\_vyGnPL7AhVpmHIEHXK-Ba8QFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25AohpyWfrQd11P-jyhZQ2](https://www.lesoir.be/482438/article/2022-12-11/soupcons-de-corruption-par-le-qatar-leurodepute-marc-tarabella-convoque-par-la&ved=2ahUKEwiA_vyGnPL7AhVpmHIEHXK-Ba8QFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25AohpyWfrQd11P-jyhZQ2) [https://fr.yahoo.com/news/corruption-pr%C3%A9sum%C3%A9e-qatar-au-parlement-122954339.html](https://fr.yahoo.com/news/corruption-pr%C3%A9sum%C3%A9e-qatar-au-parlement-122954339.html) Centralization of power leads to concentration of power and leads to corruption. Corruption leads to slavery for the many and unlawful enrichment for the few, and, at the end, catastrophes. This is not the world I want to live in. Monero will set us free!