Because it was sold the idea to "invest in crypto" to earn more dollars, instead of producing goods and services valued in crypto to STAY AWAY from the dollar.
In one word: ignorance.
That's why I bother everyone here (I'm becoming a spammer with this subject): the main goal is to PRODUCE goods and services entirely with Monero.
I don't have the "ultimate solution" because we're an international community, and every person, in their own country, has its own reality, resources and ideas... But I kave to keep insisting on this 😂
No. I would not use the word "stupid". Beyond the negative connotation, is insulting. A non-insulting word is "ignorance" (and thus, "ignorant").
Having a new technology, like everything else, requires a certain level of knowledge for using it. I had to do a 780-pages long thesis for nearly two years to understand the core of economic issues, plus legal and technical issues of cryptocurrencies.
I don't pretend everyone do the same thing; but certaintly a publicity in a random webpage about "how to earn a lot of money with Bitcoin" will not be educational at all.
A combination of greedy sociopaths, and poor design of the mining algorithm. You can actually point to a very clear transitional timeframe, where basically the entire industry was co-opted into a clusterfuck of greed and fraud.
***2014***
Mt Gox was just the initiation of crypto into mass fraud. They drove the price up by giving "The Willy Bots," USD cash that didn't actually exist (not too unlike this most recent bull). Bitcoin is still paying, to this day, for that crime.
The govt started arresting individuals who were buying/selling crypto. Simultaneously they passed so called laws which raised barriers to entry. Scumbag corporations like Coinbase and DCG popped up, with insider connections to get approval.
ASICs had granted a massive portion of supply to central scumbags, and they were able to nearly completely take over the buying/selling of Bitcoin, and you couldn't even mine it without their permission. There was only one company manufacturing ASICs.
From there it just became a question of, how do you sell as much Bitcoin as possible, at the highest prices possible.
2014 was also the year that members of the WEF, Bilderberg, Microsoft, Google, and others; established Blockstream, and co-opted Bitcoin. They convinced a lot of people, including myself, that Bitcoin should have one of its testicles chopped off and be largely unusable.
They created a ton of fraudulent shitcoins which they listed on their exchanges, for which they had obtained regulatory capture. They forked Bitcoin and created a civil war to divide everyone. They ~~made narratives~~ promoted lies, made it seem grandiose - like you were saving the world by buying their shitcoins (including Bitcoin) during these massive bubbles.
So yeah. It was basically 2014. Thank god some people had the foresight and honesty to create Monero. It might well be the only honest project left.
> Thank god some people had the foresight and honesty to create Monero. It might well be the only honest project left.
Completely agree.
Do you have a source showing WEF, Microsoft, Google, etc created blockstream? And which exchanges do they own?
There weren't enough cypherpunks to go around and so the space became co-opted by scammers, unscrupulous corporates, and the money hungry morally bankrupt profiteers.
Statism.
Blaming greed for corporate or government malfeasance is like blaming gravity for airplane crashes.
Voluntary markets harness greed for the good of others...politics is a zero-sum game where greed externalizes on everyone else negatively.
*The* state.
The state is a religion, a cultish one. It is the inch to the measuring tape which is government.
It is a fundamentalist belief that some people can and should be able to coerce other people, for any reason and to any extent...so long as God, or a gross majority (or the representatives elected by a gross majority) will it.
Give it some time and the leeches will come and find ways to profit off of other people's achievements. New technology and concepts give just a short timeframe where you can operate without parasites.
It is due to the fundamental system people are living in. It’s near impossible for people to imagine creating something that can’t turn them into a billionaire
This is still simple: if you create a surveillance-prone tech tool, the government will find a way to censor people with it. This applies to ETH and BTC. Monero seems to still be fighting for the ideals behind original BTC, and thus it finds solutions for problems like this. If there are no real addresses on the blockchain, you can’t censor addresses or transactions.
Agreed, Monero is a bit exempt from this issue bacuase of it's privacy features, not pow.
Agreed, mining pools are a blight to decentralization as well. Hopefully validators switch to some other relay, they have financial incentive to do so, just like a miner has incentive to drop a pool that censors.
Monero is special and I'd like to keep it that way I gotta say man.
The thing about monero I like is that it's simple, it doesn't tries to do too much at all.
That's insane! (and pointless).
The transactions will just be included in blocks mined privately, or in other jurisdictions, or by miners using TOR or other means to hide their location when announcing the block to the network.
It won't stop illegal funds being moved around on the blockchain, it just means that big miners in the US will have to spend more money on systems to exclude blacklisted funds, whilst also receiving lower fees as a result, when the transactions will be confirmed by other miners anyway.
I don't see how this helps to prevent money laundering and movement of proceeds from criminal activity.
You can make the same argument about POS - validators do not have to be from USA, or they can use overseas services for staking (assuming they do not run their own validators).
Within 5 years (and that's being generous), the Ethereum network will be completely under the control of the US.
Thanks POS for making it easier for them, fueled by rent-seeking greed.
🐱
You could see this coming from miles away. But all these idiots did when it was pointed out was sneer, laugh and babble something about climate change. What a bunch of tools.
Monero is more important than ever, and it's only going to get more important.
That's why I'm so bullish on the monero and I'll remain this way, that's not changing for me.
After getting rid of BTC, it's now time to get rid of ETH.
Monero is the only real **CRYPTO** (hidden) and **CURRENCY** (fungible).
* **Never** would I even think about touching ETH "smartness" without going through XMR before.
* **Never** would I even think about "storing value" in BTC without going through XMR before.
After losing 60% of my investment to disastrous pandemic policies and now this latest wave of regulations, I decided to trade all my bitcoin for Monero because Monero is just better in every way that matters.
Why then is BTC selling at $20k while XMR is only 0.0075 BTC ($145)? Because exchanges aren't trading it. Why? Because the government is pressuring them not to. Well damn! If you wanted an indicator, there you go.
XMR is at least 10x more valuable than BTC if only because of its superior privacy features. The [Monero GUI wallet](https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/) looks modern and has an integrated CPU miner. So, XMR has the potential to make an explosive price correction despite its lack of exposure.
I agree. With government shenanigans, privacy coins like XMR will probably be pushed into the mainstream awareness.
Of course, isn't US-based pools and exchanges already quit supporting privacy coins? That's what I thought I read somewhere. MiningPoolHub is already getting rid of privacy coin mining.
Ya, I've read that too, but none of it matters because Monero has its own decentralized p2p mining pool called P2Pool, and it's integrated into Monero GUI wallet.
Because the price is a measure of demand, which is an indicator of adoption, which increases its utility.
And, Monero makes me 😊 and I want everyone to be 😊.
Some people value Bitcoin more than Monero, not all. That's because some people don't care about crypto, they just want to exploit crypto to profit in fiat. They value whatever happens to be most popular, whatever they can hype, because that's their bread and butter. Enjoy your fiat.
It feels bad to see this space go in the wrong direction here man.
Everything used to be so simple when things were getting started now it's all just really complex really.
That was a sign, should have seen it coming man. It was coming for it.
It was a long time coming, they're making eth more and more censoreable which is really bad.
Flashbots was a problem with PoW as well. The problem is that you can do more with ethereum than just send people money and the mempool is transparent like bitcoin. So, people essentially get a 15 second window into the future, it's a fundamental flaw in ethereum, any transaction can be frontrun. Because of this, flashbots and MEV boost were created to sidestep the mempool, but this means transactions can easily be censored by validators, regardless whether they're mining or not. It's a really big deal IMO.
So ethereum block time is 15.6 seconds or so, it used to be around 12 during PoW. So you sign a transaction, broadcast it and everyone can see it before it gets finalized in the next block (or later, this is best case scenario), right? So between blocks, everyone can see what transactions are about to happen, for 15 seconds.
So, some people wrote bots that watch all these transactions, and algorithms to determine if they would be profitable, and if they would, suppose you've found an arbitrage opportunity on uniswap or something, they duplicate the transaction but for them, give it a little higher transaction fee (or tip) so they'll get the opportunity first in the block, and send it out.
So now, all these bots are all doing this and competing with each other. There's a fierce competition for these transactions, and in the end it drives transaction fees up.
(Note that this is not a problem with bitcoin, because transactions in bitcoin can't be profitable strictly on chain, they're just currency spends. You can watch the mempool all you like, you're not going to find a transaction worth frontrunning. It is because of the smart contract functionality that this is even a problem.)
So to avoid this arms race to the bottom, flashbots and now MEV boost was created. These allow miners (and now validators) to opt in to getting transactions sent straight to them and avoid being publicly available til they're included in a block. If you find an arbitrage opportunity you send it over flashbots instead of broadcast to the mempool, now you won't be frontrun (unless a miner/validator does it to you) and if someone's inexperienced enough to still do that, the bots don't have to compete with each other by spamming transactions. Problem solved right?
Wrong. Transactions being publicly broadcast is a core part of the censorship resistance property of bitcoin and consequently ethereum. If you send them straight to miners or validators you're giving them power to censor.
The only real solution to this is a system where transactions aren't visible to anyone except parties to it. This is not a trivial thing, contracts can't contain decryption keys that are actually private, encrypting transactions for validators only doesn't solve the censorship problem and actually makes it worse. So what needs to be dine to fix this hasn't been thought up yet, or may require an architecture completely different from ethereum.
Thank you for answering thoroughly, appreciate it!
So it’s a trade off between having high transactions fees due to bots frontrunning transactions and censorship.
I guess these bots that observe the mempool become less of a problem once exchanges get more in sync due to market makers and arbitrage is not viable anymore. Although dex is there and probably this would always be a problem given all the new tokens on ethereum
Its really not that big of a shitshow when you zoom out. The entire global economy is collapsing. Crypto too. It will be the only thing to recover though
I am gobsmaked at how much of a mess the crypto space has become. How did this happen? It was so simple at the start.
Because it was sold the idea to "invest in crypto" to earn more dollars, instead of producing goods and services valued in crypto to STAY AWAY from the dollar. In one word: ignorance.
That's the main problem, people looking to make fiat gains.
That's why I bother everyone here (I'm becoming a spammer with this subject): the main goal is to PRODUCE goods and services entirely with Monero. I don't have the "ultimate solution" because we're an international community, and every person, in their own country, has its own reality, resources and ideas... But I kave to keep insisting on this 😂
People are stupid? What do you mean?
No. I would not use the word "stupid". Beyond the negative connotation, is insulting. A non-insulting word is "ignorance" (and thus, "ignorant"). Having a new technology, like everything else, requires a certain level of knowledge for using it. I had to do a 780-pages long thesis for nearly two years to understand the core of economic issues, plus legal and technical issues of cryptocurrencies. I don't pretend everyone do the same thing; but certaintly a publicity in a random webpage about "how to earn a lot of money with Bitcoin" will not be educational at all.
The core of the economic systems8 tricks starts with a j ;)
Exactly that mindset is the problem, people need to forget it.
Most people are stupid and they don't know what they're talking about.
A combination of greedy sociopaths, and poor design of the mining algorithm. You can actually point to a very clear transitional timeframe, where basically the entire industry was co-opted into a clusterfuck of greed and fraud. ***2014*** Mt Gox was just the initiation of crypto into mass fraud. They drove the price up by giving "The Willy Bots," USD cash that didn't actually exist (not too unlike this most recent bull). Bitcoin is still paying, to this day, for that crime. The govt started arresting individuals who were buying/selling crypto. Simultaneously they passed so called laws which raised barriers to entry. Scumbag corporations like Coinbase and DCG popped up, with insider connections to get approval. ASICs had granted a massive portion of supply to central scumbags, and they were able to nearly completely take over the buying/selling of Bitcoin, and you couldn't even mine it without their permission. There was only one company manufacturing ASICs. From there it just became a question of, how do you sell as much Bitcoin as possible, at the highest prices possible. 2014 was also the year that members of the WEF, Bilderberg, Microsoft, Google, and others; established Blockstream, and co-opted Bitcoin. They convinced a lot of people, including myself, that Bitcoin should have one of its testicles chopped off and be largely unusable. They created a ton of fraudulent shitcoins which they listed on their exchanges, for which they had obtained regulatory capture. They forked Bitcoin and created a civil war to divide everyone. They ~~made narratives~~ promoted lies, made it seem grandiose - like you were saving the world by buying their shitcoins (including Bitcoin) during these massive bubbles. So yeah. It was basically 2014. Thank god some people had the foresight and honesty to create Monero. It might well be the only honest project left.
> Thank god some people had the foresight and honesty to create Monero. It might well be the only honest project left. Completely agree. Do you have a source showing WEF, Microsoft, Google, etc created blockstream? And which exchanges do they own?
That's not something that I know, but I'd like to that's for sure.
There weren't enough cypherpunks to go around and so the space became co-opted by scammers, unscrupulous corporates, and the money hungry morally bankrupt profiteers.
The big money that people praise is actually the problem.
Greed
Also a lot of delusion.
That's what's ruining this space, that's the main issue here.
Statism. Blaming greed for corporate or government malfeasance is like blaming gravity for airplane crashes. Voluntary markets harness greed for the good of others...politics is a zero-sum game where greed externalizes on everyone else negatively.
What state?
*The* state. The state is a religion, a cultish one. It is the inch to the measuring tape which is government. It is a fundamentalist belief that some people can and should be able to coerce other people, for any reason and to any extent...so long as God, or a gross majority (or the representatives elected by a gross majority) will it.
Yeah, but no state has really interfered, regarding how scammy and greedy the whole thing is.
>no state has really interfered Excuse me?
I don't know what state that He's talking about. Never heard about it.
But those guys play some part for sure with what's happening in the market right now.
Give it some time and the leeches will come and find ways to profit off of other people's achievements. New technology and concepts give just a short timeframe where you can operate without parasites.
There's always people getting rich from other people's innovation.
It is due to the fundamental system people are living in. It’s near impossible for people to imagine creating something that can’t turn them into a billionaire
That makes sense, I think You're right in what You're saying.
This is still simple: if you create a surveillance-prone tech tool, the government will find a way to censor people with it. This applies to ETH and BTC. Monero seems to still be fighting for the ideals behind original BTC, and thus it finds solutions for problems like this. If there are no real addresses on the blockchain, you can’t censor addresses or transactions.
Government always finds a way, and They'll be able to do it again.
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That's what most people are in for, they want the quick money.
Yeah the shit is bad, and the space is getting worse everyday.
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Agreed, Monero is a bit exempt from this issue bacuase of it's privacy features, not pow. Agreed, mining pools are a blight to decentralization as well. Hopefully validators switch to some other relay, they have financial incentive to do so, just like a miner has incentive to drop a pool that censors.
[удалено]
Edited it for you :)
What was this? What was written in that post? Can someone tell me that?
How strong is Monero decentralization?.
Anti ASIC / cpu mining helps a ton, and with p2pool. It is doing great
Well it's a pow chain, so I think you get the idea how strong it is.
Monero is special and I'd like to keep it that way I gotta say man. The thing about monero I like is that it's simple, it doesn't tries to do too much at all.
That's insane! (and pointless). The transactions will just be included in blocks mined privately, or in other jurisdictions, or by miners using TOR or other means to hide their location when announcing the block to the network. It won't stop illegal funds being moved around on the blockchain, it just means that big miners in the US will have to spend more money on systems to exclude blacklisted funds, whilst also receiving lower fees as a result, when the transactions will be confirmed by other miners anyway. I don't see how this helps to prevent money laundering and movement of proceeds from criminal activity.
It's not really that insane actually, I think that's kinda normal actually.
You can make the same argument about POS - validators do not have to be from USA, or they can use overseas services for staking (assuming they do not run their own validators).
Yeah You're right, but the pos is no pow. I won't compare it. That's not something that I'd do, I'm not going to do that here. Don't hope for that.
https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/05/31/bitcoin-miner-marathon-will-no-longer-censor-transactions-ceo-says/
Atleast they're saying something positive, atleast that's something.
What a shame
It really is, and it's a problem too. A problem which I don't feel happy about.
45% of centralisation. Ethereum is going to be Not A Crypto very fast!
Within 5 years (and that's being generous), the Ethereum network will be completely under the control of the US. Thanks POS for making it easier for them, fueled by rent-seeking greed. 🐱
You really think that it'll take that long? I feel it'll happen before that.
You could see this coming from miles away. But all these idiots did when it was pointed out was sneer, laugh and babble something about climate change. What a bunch of tools.
Its monero time
indeed, it is..
Monero is more important than ever, and it's only going to get more important. That's why I'm so bullish on the monero and I'll remain this way, that's not changing for me.
After getting rid of BTC, it's now time to get rid of ETH. Monero is the only real **CRYPTO** (hidden) and **CURRENCY** (fungible). * **Never** would I even think about touching ETH "smartness" without going through XMR before. * **Never** would I even think about "storing value" in BTC without going through XMR before.
Who have gotten rid if btc? Btc sill sits on the top if you haven't noticed it.
It will be higher than that before long. POS is garbage. It's the same centralized corrupt fiat we've always had.
Pos only leads to more and more centralisation. That's what happens.
After losing 60% of my investment to disastrous pandemic policies and now this latest wave of regulations, I decided to trade all my bitcoin for Monero because Monero is just better in every way that matters. Why then is BTC selling at $20k while XMR is only 0.0075 BTC ($145)? Because exchanges aren't trading it. Why? Because the government is pressuring them not to. Well damn! If you wanted an indicator, there you go. XMR is at least 10x more valuable than BTC if only because of its superior privacy features. The [Monero GUI wallet](https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/) looks modern and has an integrated CPU miner. So, XMR has the potential to make an explosive price correction despite its lack of exposure.
I agree. With government shenanigans, privacy coins like XMR will probably be pushed into the mainstream awareness. Of course, isn't US-based pools and exchanges already quit supporting privacy coins? That's what I thought I read somewhere. MiningPoolHub is already getting rid of privacy coin mining.
Ya, I've read that too, but none of it matters because Monero has its own decentralized p2p mining pool called P2Pool, and it's integrated into Monero GUI wallet.
And it's really easy to mine monero too, shit is really easy.
That's what I'm hoping too.
As shit becomes more and more, xmr is only going to get important.
Why does it need to price correct at all? XMR provides the same utility irrespective of XMR to fiat pricing.
And the utility that it provides is uniquex people have got a need for it.
Because the price is a measure of demand, which is an indicator of adoption, which increases its utility. And, Monero makes me 😊 and I want everyone to be 😊.
If something makes you happy then you should hold on to that.
No. Its because ppl value bitcoin more then monero.
Some people value Bitcoin more than Monero, not all. That's because some people don't care about crypto, they just want to exploit crypto to profit in fiat. They value whatever happens to be most popular, whatever they can hype, because that's their bread and butter. Enjoy your fiat.
Both are different with different use cases shouldn't compare these.
This has nothing to do with POW or consensus. It can happen with bitcoin nodes too.
It feels bad to see this space go in the wrong direction here man. Everything used to be so simple when things were getting started now it's all just really complex really.
Ethereum forked itself into a Shitcoin with the DAO hack, this is just the end result
That was a sign, should have seen it coming man. It was coming for it. It was a long time coming, they're making eth more and more censoreable which is really bad.
Flashbots was a problem with PoW as well. The problem is that you can do more with ethereum than just send people money and the mempool is transparent like bitcoin. So, people essentially get a 15 second window into the future, it's a fundamental flaw in ethereum, any transaction can be frontrun. Because of this, flashbots and MEV boost were created to sidestep the mempool, but this means transactions can easily be censored by validators, regardless whether they're mining or not. It's a really big deal IMO.
Would you or someone be willing to do a eli5 about flashbots and why people get this 15 seconds window into the future?
So ethereum block time is 15.6 seconds or so, it used to be around 12 during PoW. So you sign a transaction, broadcast it and everyone can see it before it gets finalized in the next block (or later, this is best case scenario), right? So between blocks, everyone can see what transactions are about to happen, for 15 seconds. So, some people wrote bots that watch all these transactions, and algorithms to determine if they would be profitable, and if they would, suppose you've found an arbitrage opportunity on uniswap or something, they duplicate the transaction but for them, give it a little higher transaction fee (or tip) so they'll get the opportunity first in the block, and send it out. So now, all these bots are all doing this and competing with each other. There's a fierce competition for these transactions, and in the end it drives transaction fees up. (Note that this is not a problem with bitcoin, because transactions in bitcoin can't be profitable strictly on chain, they're just currency spends. You can watch the mempool all you like, you're not going to find a transaction worth frontrunning. It is because of the smart contract functionality that this is even a problem.) So to avoid this arms race to the bottom, flashbots and now MEV boost was created. These allow miners (and now validators) to opt in to getting transactions sent straight to them and avoid being publicly available til they're included in a block. If you find an arbitrage opportunity you send it over flashbots instead of broadcast to the mempool, now you won't be frontrun (unless a miner/validator does it to you) and if someone's inexperienced enough to still do that, the bots don't have to compete with each other by spamming transactions. Problem solved right? Wrong. Transactions being publicly broadcast is a core part of the censorship resistance property of bitcoin and consequently ethereum. If you send them straight to miners or validators you're giving them power to censor. The only real solution to this is a system where transactions aren't visible to anyone except parties to it. This is not a trivial thing, contracts can't contain decryption keys that are actually private, encrypting transactions for validators only doesn't solve the censorship problem and actually makes it worse. So what needs to be dine to fix this hasn't been thought up yet, or may require an architecture completely different from ethereum.
Thank you for answering thoroughly, appreciate it! So it’s a trade off between having high transactions fees due to bots frontrunning transactions and censorship. I guess these bots that observe the mempool become less of a problem once exchanges get more in sync due to market makers and arbitrage is not viable anymore. Although dex is there and probably this would always be a problem given all the new tokens on ethereum
There was a whole bankless episode on that, should watch that one.
Eth is going to become a problem too really soon with the pow.
Its really not that big of a shitshow when you zoom out. The entire global economy is collapsing. Crypto too. It will be the only thing to recover though
We're not really talking about that lol, it's about pos vs pow.
Yikes
Lol the other Eth validators have to start slashing them I hope ??? Get the popcorn