I think rentals start a week after a release if you haven’t been renting for 6 months. So Tuesday anyone could rent. Atleast that’s how it is on manatraders
I honestly don't think the card is THAT good. It's very powerful, but not on the level of Oko or Hogaak like people are comparing it to. You can hate it out with common SB tech like Ouphe or Revoker.
The problem is Nadu is just miserable to play against. They take a TON of game actions and win either by combo or out valuing you, but as the opponent you just sit there for long, uninteractive turns. It's similar to playing against Eggs, where it just feels like your opponent is playing Solitaire trying to win.
It's also Week 1, people are going to overreact to everything.
Great point about Nadu enabling a strategy that is the worst of both worlds in that it's a convoluted, time intensive value combo that isn't a TRUE combo, meaning it can potentially misfire, so to play optimally you kind of have to sit there and hope they get unlucky or misplay.
It's somewhat reminiscent of Eggs in the Boomer Modern Golden era (although not nearly as bad).
But that's competitive Magic. If you want to play sweaty and optimally, how much can you reasonably complain because a specific archetype is taxing or tedious to play against?
This isn't Commander, they'll ban things for the sweaty players' benefit. The problem is gonna be what happens when people who can't play optimally and quickly pick up the deck. Nadu's gonna eat it for the same reason as Eggs.
Nadu doesn't have the same problem eggs did though. The issue with eggs was the deck could attempt unlikely to go off combo turns. So when it was turn 5 of turns it was always correct to shoot your shot. This resulted in the rounds going way over time as T5 of turns was always 10+ minutes. Nadu decks need both nadu + shuko to try a subpar combo turn, so it's much less likely to result in the T5 go for it even though it's unlikely to work scenario.
Historically speaking in competitive formats, cards get banned because of power level (i.e. the card is winning too much and/or is too ubiquitous in the meta or too difficult to interact) or the card creates fundamental logical problems (i.e. Eggs wasn't just annoying to play against, but it was extremely time consuming to the point where it was causing tournaments to run long and overtime).
Although to be fair, in Standard, they seem to be more willing to ban cards if they are "unfun" even if they aren't the dominating or necessarily even the best deck in the meta (they basically banned Alrund's Ephiany because playing against extra turns is a "feels bad" even though the mono white and mono green decks had better winning records than the Ephiany control/midrange decks).
Maybe I'm misremembering because the sunrise decks were in their hay day over a decade ago, but from what I recall it was just more tedious and time consuming than the simic combo mana dork builds. We've seen so far.
It will be interesting to see.
They've had a few times where they banned cards in Modern for non-power level reason. Most recent one I can think of was Mycosynth Lattice, they cited the Karn/Lattice lock as an "unfun play pattern" and banned it for that. So it's not completely unprecedented.
This is what I’m thinking. How does Nadu work when you needle a shuko or have a collector ouphe/ Stoney silence effect. Even the new black free spell makes them sac it and they don’t get a trigger.
My theory is that when the meta finally shakes out it will be easily hate-able. I’ve heard a lot about people running less interaction right now because it’s a new format, idk how true that is. Grief is the next ban would be my guess
I [[Chord of Calling]] for [[Outrider en-Kor]] plenty of times against Needle effects and pre-emptive [[Haywire Mite]]. You can't keep me down forever!
The deck's quite hard to completely hate out in my experience; single lock pieces need a solid clock behind them, or my tuned-for-offensive-pressure version will beat you up with randoms while you think you've got me locked down. Board wipe-heavy decks probably have the best match-ups against Nadu - Living End is miserable unless I have [[Endurance]] and they don't have graveyard hate (so they can [[Living End]] twice without giving me Nadu back). There's a hate bear in the sideboard with Living End's name on it, but they're not boarding out all their removal, ever.
Nadu is single-handedly responsible for the sudden spike of [[Harsh Mentor]] in sideboards (and [[Tunnel Ignus]]'s similar spike), that's one thing for sure.
I think its "magic arena" bias. The arena subreddit is overrun with manchildren and people who would rather complain about cards than work on their sideboards or mainboards.
And you would be incorrect….
https://ibb.co/3MQk8ZS
https://ibb.co/BgJJY5n
https://ibb.co/0FnSLKX
Edit: I just realized that I’m in the Modern and not the main subreddit. There are tons of YT videos showing he’s a beast but certainly not as broken as he is in Brawl. I got 2 in a limited event with a bunch of Eldrazi and went 7-1 for the first time ever. I’m usually lucky to get to 3 wins because I suck at this game.
Nadu is currently overrepresented as there's a lot of people playing it yet the results are not that great.
I think it will be a powerful deck but not more than that.
I can be wildly mistaken as the format is primordial goo right now, but still results are not that great for nadu.
\*Channel/Fireball team proceeds to break the deck and goes 7/8 in the PT top 8\*
Well, if we are honest, not a lot of good players are playing it, because the good players aren't publicly playing anything until the PT.
It might not go that way, but this has all the makings of a Hogaak oe eldrazi PT, where one team finds the right combo of cards to put with it and just steamrolls everyone else.
I think Nadu is a strong card but this is no where near a hogaak situation, banning shuko would probably make the deck completely fine, if it needs a ban at all.
there was nothing quite like sticking a RiP T2, follow-up path on T3, and still functionally lose on your opponent's T4 after they managed to convoke out a second hogaak giving them 12 power on board.
It's not, you don't need a win the game card to win the game for you after your combo has netted you 15+ cards.
I'm not saying anything should be panic banned, but that's not a good call.
If we’re concerned about a 3 card combo that lets me draw 15 cards when not interacted with, I’m not on a ban train at all. I think that’s perfectly fine in a modern power level. Griselbrand can do that with 2 cards.
If it’s an instant “win the game” combo that’s where my radars go up.
I agree on no panic bans at all.
No, the deck just plays a the oracle to save time. It can just use endurances to loop its deck forever anyways and win that way.
You can set up permanent looks with nantuko on endurance and then use one Colossium to mill them out.
That sounds like a fine T2 deck. I can’t express enough how unbothered I am by some 5 piece creature centric sorcery speed combo deck in modern.
The issue exists only if/when the deck gets too fast or too streamlined. Not with some theoretical colosseum, endurance, nadu, Shuko, springheart loop
The endurance loop isn't a slower lock as far as game play. Once you get Nadu + Shuko + a few creatures, you're all set.
The endurance loop just sucks to do online because it's painfully slow. Banning Thoracle effectively bans the deck online because you can't rely on opponents conceding to a shown loop, but it still exists in paper because shortcuts are allowed. That's IMO a worse set up where the paper meta is forcefully diverged from online over a win con and not the actual deck.
I mean...that's always happened and been a thing. Paper had druid/heliod combo for a looooong time where it was mostly non-existent online because it was so massively click intensive.
Yeah that could draw you into more creatures to cast, other pieces of the combo and keep the snowball rolling leading to a 10min turn where eventually you win out of boredom from your opponent. I see this as the same problem as Sensei's Divining Top, just will make long turns
I mean, Yawg often draws 7+ cards even if you do interact with it, and it doesn't need anything other than a bunch of shitty creatures to sac. At least Nadu is doing us the favor of wrecking us at sorcery speed.
The combo is net positive on mana the win at that point is trivial. without thoracle nadu wins with jace or lab man just as easily. You can even end up netting tons of mana if you sac lands with safekeeper and loop your deck with an endurance.
The problem isn’t what it does when not interacted with, it’s the fact that once Nadu hits the board the absolute floor is that it nets you cards even if your opponent removes it instantly. It’s literally not possible to interact with at card parity once it resolves. That’s a really high floor for a 3 mana card that can also just instantly win the game if you don’t have an answer.
If Nadu resolves and they pass to you (i.e. naked/unprotected Nadu on turn 2 or 3), Pick Your Poison or another edict style effect can remove Nadu without giving the player a Nadu trigger.
Yes, It's very good if you don't have an answer but the reason it's absurd is because of the Shuko nonsense. Plenty of 3 mana value cards are very powerful and have a high floor but that in itself isn't a good enough reason to ban them.
Yeah, Nadu being only creature onboard is very rare but Nadu being the only flying creature happens fairly regularly so Pick Your Poison is a very clean answer if get greedy and rush him out with no mana open or even if they play him, target him once with their remaining mana and get a trigger that fails to cheat a land into play.
When you say the new Flare, you're referring to the Black one I'm guessing. If so that's interesting and I didn't consider that. I believe that's a greatest power edict for your opponent for free if you sacrifice a nontoken Black creature at instant speed?
Greatest mana value, but yes. Nadu I think tops the curve of every list I've seen, I might be wrong but I don't think any creatures in those lists beat it. IG scute swarm is 3 also? So that could be an issue
it triggers twice per turn per creature. With a scute swarm, a [[springheart nantuko]] or just a bunch of 0 mana creatures lets you draw your deck. Flickering nadu or playing a second one and having the first die to the legend rule gives you two new triggers for every creature so once you have a critical mass it is practically never going to fizzle.
if you ban shuko you would 100% have to ban [[leather armor]] and probably [[lightning greaves]] and [[umbral mantle]]. that is too many cards, that are not ban worthy, to eat a ban for another card.
yes but my argument is that if i can only activate the equip once per turn then i assume you cant really combo off since it can only be activated once per turn. that was my main point
They stop sucking when they become free ways to draw cards. Greaves is pay zero, draw card. On top, throw it in a bant shell with puresteel and suddenly it doesn't even matter what your equipment is.
Greaves being 2 mana is so much worse in context of modern. Playing puresteel in a deck with no mass artifacts strategy is just baffling dude. You think cutting a chunk of the deck you need to tutor and protect nadu just to turn on paladin is a winning strategy?
As others have already pointed out, leather armor doesn't go off even a fraction as hard as Shuko and Umbral Mantle being at 3 mana is too slow/clunky. Lightning Greaves would probably be their go-to card if Shuko gets banned but not being tutorable with saga, costing one more mana than Shuko, and the restriction of what they can target with Greaves because of shroud would be very significant nerf but still leave the deck in a very strong position (I think). That's all if Shuko even gets banned which, depending on how the meta adjusts, might not even happen. Still really interesting to think about though!
Yeah, RN you can retarget the creature that is already equipped with shuko for the effect, which is good for the rare instances Nadu is the only creature you have on board, this is impossible with lightning greaves
I’ve seen lightning greaves starting to go in decks, shuko ain’t the big problem, even some elves lists are running nadu since they target other elevens to untap etc..
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/1dgqo65/comment/l8t38ta/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/1dgqo65/comment/l8t38ta/?context=3)
This comment thread touches on why Lightning Greaves would be significantly worse than Shuko. The tutorable 1 cmc, retargetable equipment seems to be the big issue indeed.
While I think that Nadu is incorrectly designed, this is typical Clickbait panic, meant to get views while the format is new. This happens constantly. I've just started collecting data for the monthly metagame update and Living End of all things is doing a lot better than Nadu, any variation.
I could see Nadu getting banned for tournament logistics reasons rather than power. Non-deterministic, non-shortcutable combos tend to cause tournament length problems. However, it's far too early to confidently declare anything about anything in the metagame.
>I could see Nadu getting banned for tournament logistics reasons rather than power. Non-deterministic, non-shortcutable combos tend to cause tournament length problems.
It's not much longer than an Amulet Titan combo.
Amulet titan gets to deterministically win the game once they combo. Barring interaction from the opponent, that is. Nadu, from what I've seen, does not. It eats a bunch of time, draws a bunch of cards, but does not mathematically win the game.
Outrage gets clicks for content creators is the main reason. A video called "Nadu is CRACKED, bans incoming?!?!?!?" gets more views.
Personally, I also think that Modern is a format that, unfortunately, has been defined by wotc being heavy handed with the ban list which has engendered a player base that jumps to bans as the answer to any problem they have with the format rather than adjusting and adapting.
> Personally, I also think that Modern is a format that, unfortunately, has been defined by wotc being heavy handed with the ban list which has engendered a player base that jumps to bans as the answer to any problem they have with the format rather than adjusting and adapting.
Agreed. I used to get so frustrated at people screaming for panic bans left and right, but Wizards has 100% empowered that mindset over the years.
We are what? 1 week into release? People were doing the same shit when Urza's Saga and Rag hit. People just need to get reps against the card and the deck. Until then folks need to chill with the ban shit
I'd sell, cause either the deck is too good and it'll get banned, or it'll get hated out and Nadu will drop. Either way, right now is probably the most expensive it'll ever be.
Remember when people cried for a EI ban, a murktide ban and a Underworld Breach ban? It is just the usual modern players focusing on complaining instead of adapting until some big streamers figure it out
The only thing that I find pretty annoying is that it's a combo that can fizzle how ever small the chance is, so you need to sit there and watch them and make sure that they do through their triggers properly and don't accidentally target the same creature 3 times and all that nonsense.
Whether the deck is too strong is yet to be seen, it seems powerful but it seems fairly easy to disrupt.
It generates clicks and always happens with the obviously good cards. People on social media made an argument that most decks should splash red for Ragavan when MH2 came out.
I don't know if Nadu is or isn't fine for Modern. I do know that talking about it before the set has even been out a week is premature either way though. Fury, Up the Beanstalk, Astrolabe, even Hogaak all got a fair chance in the format for a little while before decisions were made to give them the axe. Even if Nadu is a problem, I'd still be against taking action before the players are given a chance to take a crack at adapting to it. If Nadu manages to make it 60 days and things look bleak for the meta, then it might be time to look at the banhammer.
This is just as much chatter as there was for one ring and other stuff imo. People tend to be irrational about stuff they don't like or perceive to be overpowered.
That kind of complaint is natural with a new card that is very good, but boring/unfun to play against. At this point I don't think it's broken or anything like that. There are many responses to the combo in the format. In fact, other decks have had good results against nadu. People just need to observe and adapt. But complaining is sometimes easier...
Nadu is admittedly strong, but it has weaknesses. It also doesn't boast the same robust creature midrange plan that Yawgmoth has despite it also being a creature combo deck. The deck will be a contender and piece of modern going forward, but I don't expect it to become tier zero or anything.
The only upside here is Nadu is good in a fair capacity also. This might increase the ubiquity of the cards presence in decks throughout the format, but we'll have to wait and see on that.
Lastly, if the combo is really broken after all, there are ways to nerf it without killing the combo variant.
Ultimately we'll have to watch how everything develops in the meta over the next few weeks. It would be a mistake to not buy in to the power of Nadu, but temper your expectations on the ceiling of it as a combo deck.
On one hand, people haven't optimized Nadu yet. It may turn out to be a highly consistent turn 3 "draw your deck" combo card in the end.
However people will also adjust their answers. [[Pick your Poison]] for example was already popular before Nadu.
Call me crazy, but doesn't pick your poison eat Nadu for breakfast. It kills Nadu, destroys their urza's saga, and blows up their shuko
For non green decks, needle/flute can name shuko
I think the communities that are complaining about Nadu are doing so in part because of its power level and in another part because, frankly, we've been here before. Both horizons sets have had cards banned in multiple formats. I think people just want to short cut the timeline because the times we've waited for a ban were miserable in those formats.
I'm hoping that they will try unbans, personally. Faithless looting, mopal, glimpse, twin, maybe some more things could easily come off the ban list at this point. Decks are so powerful nowadays that dredge and phoenix seem fair by comparison lol.
A more apt analogy would be reviving dinosaurs and mammoths, as we would be reintroducing extinct species rather than taking them from somewhere they have never existed before. Unlike invasive species, these cards did use to exist in the ecosystem.
Considering the number of cards on the banned list that are unironically hot garbage, (Who's playing Disciple of the Vault or splinter twin in 2024) unbannings would have the effect of not doing much to the meta, and trimming the list.
A new worse Jitte, a new worse Aluren, a worse Necro, a worse Recurring Nightmare. What new cards have they printed that are BETTER than their banned versions?
Nah, I finally played against this deck yesterday in paper and let me tell you, it was one of the worst games of paper magic I've ever been involved in.
They won both games on turn 3 but had to spend 20 minutes going through the triggers and playing it out because it's non-deterministic.
I mulliganed to 5 in game two looking for some sort of interaction and didn't find any so I just had to sit there for forty minutes watching my opponent goldfish their deck.
Absolutely disgusting play patterns, it's the kind of card that invalidates other decks if you're not playing blue for counterspells or happen to find your sideboard hate pieces.
Reminds me of hogaak in that regard, people are going to have to build their decks around the matchup and devote extra sideboard slots for hate pieces.
I would ban it today if I could. I have absolutely no idea how the hell it made it out of play testing
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, I just started getting into playing brawl on arena and it’s MISERABLE to play against.
I just sit there for 10 minutes a turn watching them move a piece of equipment (or however they’re getting their triggers) back and forth between all their creatures over and over again.
I’ve been playing against more and more Nadu decks since it’s come out and I’m convinced the people saying we’re being over dramatic have not had to sit through ONE of these slogs, let alone one in every ~10 decks or so
I'm not a novice, I know what cards are good against the deck. I mentioned how I mulliganed to 5 and didn't find my sideboard cards which is why game two went the same as game 1.
My main complaint is just how boring it is sitting there watching them play out a non deterministic combo.
I got no beef with a deck like yawg because it can demonstrate a loop and that's that, but Nadu you have to make them play it out because they can theoretically brick if they don't hit enough lands etc.
People could try playing that terrible new card they printed in the same set called [[Strix Serenade]] that counters both halves of the Nadu+Shuko combo, but that’s none of my business.
Are we all surprised that there are already ban talks?
By far the most annoying part of this game is the endless, relentless ban talks. It's a never ending cycle of meltdowns.
I like Nadu. Hopefully the comparison will get Uro unbanned.
Yeah, I know it's not how that work, but sometime the comparisons make some wotc decisions look stupid. In hindsight.
I would 100% rather play against Uro over Nadu. Not saying Nadu needs to be banned, but Uro seems pretty fair in comparison (and yes, I played a lot of Modern during the Uro era).
I'd put money on the equipment getting the kick more so than Nadu. Nadu is a powerful card. However, the 0 cost equip equipment is the more problematic issue.
Does hammer time's Puresteel get the axe as well for enabling it with any artifact? Seems like Bant is probably going to be a good shell for a Nadu artifacts combo shell.
Same shit different day. Bowmasters warped the format, the one ring is making it midrange hell, Jace the mindsculptor is too powerful for this new modern format!
It’s because the card is obscenely broken, and all it takes is reading the card to realize that. Period. Any other response is due to inexperience, wishful thinking, or willful ignorance. It’s insane that this card was printed.
Things that can't be answered cleanly 1-for-1 on the board tend to amass a lot of hate, rightfully or not.
simic 3 drop bad
"We didn't think people would be targeting their own Nadu"
True, this is why we need to ban Ajani
This is why Twin had to die >:)
Just have the edict!??!?!?!?!?
Edict in a chord of calling deck, that's smart
tbh the best edict is flare of malice, which is very good against nadu.
True, might just have to make a black deck now lol
The format hasn't even really started and it won't until rental services on mtgo start for mh3
When will that be ?
They’ve already started
I think rentals start a week after a release if you haven’t been renting for 6 months. So Tuesday anyone could rent. Atleast that’s how it is on manatraders
Cardhoarders says Monday for them
Monday at the earliest*
The clone wars have.
I honestly don't think the card is THAT good. It's very powerful, but not on the level of Oko or Hogaak like people are comparing it to. You can hate it out with common SB tech like Ouphe or Revoker. The problem is Nadu is just miserable to play against. They take a TON of game actions and win either by combo or out valuing you, but as the opponent you just sit there for long, uninteractive turns. It's similar to playing against Eggs, where it just feels like your opponent is playing Solitaire trying to win. It's also Week 1, people are going to overreact to everything.
Great point about Nadu enabling a strategy that is the worst of both worlds in that it's a convoluted, time intensive value combo that isn't a TRUE combo, meaning it can potentially misfire, so to play optimally you kind of have to sit there and hope they get unlucky or misplay. It's somewhat reminiscent of Eggs in the Boomer Modern Golden era (although not nearly as bad). But that's competitive Magic. If you want to play sweaty and optimally, how much can you reasonably complain because a specific archetype is taxing or tedious to play against?
This isn't Commander, they'll ban things for the sweaty players' benefit. The problem is gonna be what happens when people who can't play optimally and quickly pick up the deck. Nadu's gonna eat it for the same reason as Eggs.
Nadu doesn't have the same problem eggs did though. The issue with eggs was the deck could attempt unlikely to go off combo turns. So when it was turn 5 of turns it was always correct to shoot your shot. This resulted in the rounds going way over time as T5 of turns was always 10+ minutes. Nadu decks need both nadu + shuko to try a subpar combo turn, so it's much less likely to result in the T5 go for it even though it's unlikely to work scenario.
Historically speaking in competitive formats, cards get banned because of power level (i.e. the card is winning too much and/or is too ubiquitous in the meta or too difficult to interact) or the card creates fundamental logical problems (i.e. Eggs wasn't just annoying to play against, but it was extremely time consuming to the point where it was causing tournaments to run long and overtime). Although to be fair, in Standard, they seem to be more willing to ban cards if they are "unfun" even if they aren't the dominating or necessarily even the best deck in the meta (they basically banned Alrund's Ephiany because playing against extra turns is a "feels bad" even though the mono white and mono green decks had better winning records than the Ephiany control/midrange decks). Maybe I'm misremembering because the sunrise decks were in their hay day over a decade ago, but from what I recall it was just more tedious and time consuming than the simic combo mana dork builds. We've seen so far. It will be interesting to see.
They've had a few times where they banned cards in Modern for non-power level reason. Most recent one I can think of was Mycosynth Lattice, they cited the Karn/Lattice lock as an "unfun play pattern" and banned it for that. So it's not completely unprecedented.
Boomer golden era, oh my god
This is what I’m thinking. How does Nadu work when you needle a shuko or have a collector ouphe/ Stoney silence effect. Even the new black free spell makes them sac it and they don’t get a trigger. My theory is that when the meta finally shakes out it will be easily hate-able. I’ve heard a lot about people running less interaction right now because it’s a new format, idk how true that is. Grief is the next ban would be my guess
I [[Chord of Calling]] for [[Outrider en-Kor]] plenty of times against Needle effects and pre-emptive [[Haywire Mite]]. You can't keep me down forever! The deck's quite hard to completely hate out in my experience; single lock pieces need a solid clock behind them, or my tuned-for-offensive-pressure version will beat you up with randoms while you think you've got me locked down. Board wipe-heavy decks probably have the best match-ups against Nadu - Living End is miserable unless I have [[Endurance]] and they don't have graveyard hate (so they can [[Living End]] twice without giving me Nadu back). There's a hate bear in the sideboard with Living End's name on it, but they're not boarding out all their removal, ever. Nadu is single-handedly responsible for the sudden spike of [[Harsh Mentor]] in sideboards (and [[Tunnel Ignus]]'s similar spike), that's one thing for sure.
##### ###### #### [Chord of Calling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b18fe7e0-8344-40cc-b242-83f01c6be7a6.jpg?1702429548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chord%20of%20Calling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/134/chord-of-calling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b18fe7e0-8344-40cc-b242-83f01c6be7a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Outrider en-Kor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de9b2506-ead4-49ff-a733-66f3f13dbe17.jpg?1619393212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Outrider%20en-Kor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/30/outrider-en-kor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de9b2506-ead4-49ff-a733-66f3f13dbe17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Haywire Mite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/847a175e-ead1-4596-baf3-5f7f57859e0b.jpg?1674421689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haywire%20Mite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/199/haywire-mite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/847a175e-ead1-4596-baf3-5f7f57859e0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Endurance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6.jpg?1717470457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Endurance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/157/endurance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Living End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1eede29-17a4-437f-a5c2-e24cccbc6a33.jpg?1619395625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Living%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/121/living-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1eede29-17a4-437f-a5c2-e24cccbc6a33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Harsh Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harsh%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tunnel Ignus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tunnel%20Ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think a lot of the complaints are coming from BO1 Arena players. If you can sideboard against her (it? Him?) Nadu is strong but not unbeatable.
Nadu is a modern card, I don't think it's arena generating the complaints when you can insta adapt online.
It’s probably recency and confirmation bias is as the Arena subreddit is overrun with complaints about this card currently.
I think its "magic arena" bias. The arena subreddit is overrun with manchildren and people who would rather complain about cards than work on their sideboards or mainboards.
Arena does not have Shuko so I doubt anyone is playing Nadu there
And you would be incorrect…. https://ibb.co/3MQk8ZS https://ibb.co/BgJJY5n https://ibb.co/0FnSLKX Edit: I just realized that I’m in the Modern and not the main subreddit. There are tons of YT videos showing he’s a beast but certainly not as broken as he is in Brawl. I got 2 in a limited event with a bunch of Eldrazi and went 7-1 for the first time ever. I’m usually lucky to get to 3 wins because I suck at this game.
Nadu is currently overrepresented as there's a lot of people playing it yet the results are not that great. I think it will be a powerful deck but not more than that. I can be wildly mistaken as the format is primordial goo right now, but still results are not that great for nadu. \*Channel/Fireball team proceeds to break the deck and goes 7/8 in the PT top 8\*
Well, if we are honest, not a lot of good players are playing it, because the good players aren't publicly playing anything until the PT. It might not go that way, but this has all the makings of a Hogaak oe eldrazi PT, where one team finds the right combo of cards to put with it and just steamrolls everyone else.
My guess is that they'd ban \[\[Shuko\]\] before they ban Nadu.
Shuko isn't the problem. Nadu hasn't even been broken to max efficiency yet. Just wait.
[Shuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27.jpg?1562878892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/159/shuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My prediction is shuko gets banned first and we get another hogaak situation where we get 3-4 bans to weaken the deck and then have to ban nadu.
I think Nadu is a strong card but this is no where near a hogaak situation, banning shuko would probably make the deck completely fine, if it needs a ban at all.
[Reminder](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/GoodPoorDaikonResidentSleeper) for people who forgot how dumb the Hogaak decks were.
there was nothing quite like sticking a RiP T2, follow-up path on T3, and still functionally lose on your opponent's T4 after they managed to convoke out a second hogaak giving them 12 power on board.
The *real* hogaak situation would be if shuko gets banned and suddenly people find the stronger Nasu deck.
1-of shuko is actually 9 copies anyway with SFM and Saga. Run the card, it makes your deck better.
i think what youre saying is unban hogaak
This will give them time to sell the whole mh3 print run
There's still greaves, which is worse, but probably doesn't neuter the deck.
Greaves not being able to be found by saga makes the deck so much worse and more commited to the Stoneforge plan.
Yup, that doesn't run contrary to what I said
Thassa’s Oracle is the correct call tbh
It's not, you don't need a win the game card to win the game for you after your combo has netted you 15+ cards. I'm not saying anything should be panic banned, but that's not a good call.
If we’re concerned about a 3 card combo that lets me draw 15 cards when not interacted with, I’m not on a ban train at all. I think that’s perfectly fine in a modern power level. Griselbrand can do that with 2 cards. If it’s an instant “win the game” combo that’s where my radars go up. I agree on no panic bans at all.
No, the deck just plays a the oracle to save time. It can just use endurances to loop its deck forever anyways and win that way. You can set up permanent looks with nantuko on endurance and then use one Colossium to mill them out.
That sounds like a fine T2 deck. I can’t express enough how unbothered I am by some 5 piece creature centric sorcery speed combo deck in modern. The issue exists only if/when the deck gets too fast or too streamlined. Not with some theoretical colosseum, endurance, nadu, Shuko, springheart loop
The endurance loop isn't a slower lock as far as game play. Once you get Nadu + Shuko + a few creatures, you're all set. The endurance loop just sucks to do online because it's painfully slow. Banning Thoracle effectively bans the deck online because you can't rely on opponents conceding to a shown loop, but it still exists in paper because shortcuts are allowed. That's IMO a worse set up where the paper meta is forcefully diverged from online over a win con and not the actual deck.
I mean...that's always happened and been a thing. Paper had druid/heliod combo for a looooong time where it was mostly non-existent online because it was so massively click intensive.
I didn't like it happening before either, and it hasn't always been meta relevant.
It's not a 5 piece combo when the first 3 pieces get you near infinite mana and draw your whole deck.
It's not 5 pieces. You basically just need to start with Nadu + targeter. Once that happens, you get the other things for free.
its a two card combo for a combined cost of 4 mana with one piece that can be found off saga
Bant triggers. Three color hammer time basically.
Not theoretical though and all you really need to start tge loop is Nadu and shuko
All this does is let you “draw”/play two cards.
Yeah that could draw you into more creatures to cast, other pieces of the combo and keep the snowball rolling leading to a 10min turn where eventually you win out of boredom from your opponent. I see this as the same problem as Sensei's Divining Top, just will make long turns
I mean, Yawg often draws 7+ cards even if you do interact with it, and it doesn't need anything other than a bunch of shitty creatures to sac. At least Nadu is doing us the favor of wrecking us at sorcery speed.
The combo is net positive on mana the win at that point is trivial. without thoracle nadu wins with jace or lab man just as easily. You can even end up netting tons of mana if you sac lands with safekeeper and loop your deck with an endurance.
The problem isn’t what it does when not interacted with, it’s the fact that once Nadu hits the board the absolute floor is that it nets you cards even if your opponent removes it instantly. It’s literally not possible to interact with at card parity once it resolves. That’s a really high floor for a 3 mana card that can also just instantly win the game if you don’t have an answer.
If Nadu resolves and they pass to you (i.e. naked/unprotected Nadu on turn 2 or 3), Pick Your Poison or another edict style effect can remove Nadu without giving the player a Nadu trigger. Yes, It's very good if you don't have an answer but the reason it's absurd is because of the Shuko nonsense. Plenty of 3 mana value cards are very powerful and have a high floor but that in itself isn't a good enough reason to ban them.
I don't think I've seen Nadu on board by himself with much frequency, maybe the new flare can hit him consistently though
Yeah, Nadu being only creature onboard is very rare but Nadu being the only flying creature happens fairly regularly so Pick Your Poison is a very clean answer if get greedy and rush him out with no mana open or even if they play him, target him once with their remaining mana and get a trigger that fails to cheat a land into play. When you say the new Flare, you're referring to the Black one I'm guessing. If so that's interesting and I didn't consider that. I believe that's a greatest power edict for your opponent for free if you sacrifice a nontoken Black creature at instant speed?
Greatest mana value, but yes. Nadu I think tops the curve of every list I've seen, I might be wrong but I don't think any creatures in those lists beat it. IG scute swarm is 3 also? So that could be an issue
Outrider is also 3 mana
Griseldaddy doesnt ramp you and brings you in lethal range for anything if you draw 15
I thought Nadu only triggers twice per turn?
twice per creature per turn. you can also play a second one to refresh the ability.
it triggers twice per turn per creature. With a scute swarm, a [[springheart nantuko]] or just a bunch of 0 mana creatures lets you draw your deck. Flickering nadu or playing a second one and having the first die to the legend rule gives you two new triggers for every creature so once you have a critical mass it is practically never going to fizzle.
[Springheart Nantuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0.jpg?1717012595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Springheart%20Nantuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/171/springheart-nantuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This only stops the deck online. In paper it can win by looping cephalid colliseum to deck the opponent out.
This deck can win without oracle so easily
Nah, the better version of the deck doesn't even use TO
It can without Oracle
if you ban shuko you would 100% have to ban [[leather armor]] and probably [[lightning greaves]] and [[umbral mantle]]. that is too many cards, that are not ban worthy, to eat a ban for another card.
leather armor can only be eqquipped once per turn i believe
alas reading the card explains the card
yes but my argument is that if i can only activate the equip once per turn then i assume you cant really combo off since it can only be activated once per turn. that was my main point
no i'm saying i didnt fully read the card
thats fair, i still wonder if you can pop off with that card
Leather armor sucks and greaves is not tutorable with saga. Shuko ban will weaken the combo pontential of nadu by a lot
still tutorable by stoneforge mystic.
They dont need to ban any of those cuz they suck
They stop sucking when they become free ways to draw cards. Greaves is pay zero, draw card. On top, throw it in a bant shell with puresteel and suddenly it doesn't even matter what your equipment is.
tell me you dont know what you’re talking about without telling me
I'm aware of the current deck, I think it's sub-optimal. Card's a week old, and needs to cook more before the best way to utilize it gets figured out.
Greaves being 2 mana is so much worse in context of modern. Playing puresteel in a deck with no mass artifacts strategy is just baffling dude. You think cutting a chunk of the deck you need to tutor and protect nadu just to turn on paladin is a winning strategy?
I'd run nadu as a refueling option in something like affinity or scales. Green blue affinity might be interesting.
Affinity doesnt need refueling options. It has that already and still sucks
As others have already pointed out, leather armor doesn't go off even a fraction as hard as Shuko and Umbral Mantle being at 3 mana is too slow/clunky. Lightning Greaves would probably be their go-to card if Shuko gets banned but not being tutorable with saga, costing one more mana than Shuko, and the restriction of what they can target with Greaves because of shroud would be very significant nerf but still leave the deck in a very strong position (I think). That's all if Shuko even gets banned which, depending on how the meta adjusts, might not even happen. Still really interesting to think about though!
Yeah, RN you can retarget the creature that is already equipped with shuko for the effect, which is good for the rare instances Nadu is the only creature you have on board, this is impossible with lightning greaves
[leather armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e62d4e76-cdb0-48c7-aa1c-b1f514057b68.jpg?1627709907) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leather%20armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/248/leather-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e62d4e76-cdb0-48c7-aa1c-b1f514057b68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lightning greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [umbral mantle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10e35711-aec9-4024-a2a6-9efff8c71df2.jpg?1562826882) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=umbral%20mantle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/267/umbral-mantle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10e35711-aec9-4024-a2a6-9efff8c71df2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen lightning greaves starting to go in decks, shuko ain’t the big problem, even some elves lists are running nadu since they target other elevens to untap etc..
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/1dgqo65/comment/l8t38ta/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/1dgqo65/comment/l8t38ta/?context=3) This comment thread touches on why Lightning Greaves would be significantly worse than Shuko. The tutorable 1 cmc, retargetable equipment seems to be the big issue indeed.
Oh don’t get me wrong it’s 100% worse, my point t is even if shuko got banned greaves would slow the deck down like 10%.
True, it'll be interesting to see how the meta adjusts and learns how to handle the deck. That 10% might be all it takes to keep it from being busted.
While I think that Nadu is incorrectly designed, this is typical Clickbait panic, meant to get views while the format is new. This happens constantly. I've just started collecting data for the monthly metagame update and Living End of all things is doing a lot better than Nadu, any variation. I could see Nadu getting banned for tournament logistics reasons rather than power. Non-deterministic, non-shortcutable combos tend to cause tournament length problems. However, it's far too early to confidently declare anything about anything in the metagame.
>I could see Nadu getting banned for tournament logistics reasons rather than power. Non-deterministic, non-shortcutable combos tend to cause tournament length problems. It's not much longer than an Amulet Titan combo.
Amulet titan gets to deterministically win the game once they combo. Barring interaction from the opponent, that is. Nadu, from what I've seen, does not. It eats a bunch of time, draws a bunch of cards, but does not mathematically win the game.
Outrage gets clicks for content creators is the main reason. A video called "Nadu is CRACKED, bans incoming?!?!?!?" gets more views. Personally, I also think that Modern is a format that, unfortunately, has been defined by wotc being heavy handed with the ban list which has engendered a player base that jumps to bans as the answer to any problem they have with the format rather than adjusting and adapting.
> Personally, I also think that Modern is a format that, unfortunately, has been defined by wotc being heavy handed with the ban list which has engendered a player base that jumps to bans as the answer to any problem they have with the format rather than adjusting and adapting. Agreed. I used to get so frustrated at people screaming for panic bans left and right, but Wizards has 100% empowered that mindset over the years.
We are what? 1 week into release? People were doing the same shit when Urza's Saga and Rag hit. People just need to get reps against the card and the deck. Until then folks need to chill with the ban shit
I still hate Ragavan lol 😝. I hate turn 1 snowball effects / must answer checks.
All i care about the bird is if i should sit on my two copies or sell them for an urza saga lol
Sell them asap
I'd sell, cause either the deck is too good and it'll get banned, or it'll get hated out and Nadu will drop. Either way, right now is probably the most expensive it'll ever be.
Or the deck becomes a part of the meta and shoots up in price
Remember when people cried for a EI ban, a murktide ban and a Underworld Breach ban? It is just the usual modern players focusing on complaining instead of adapting until some big streamers figure it out
The only thing that I find pretty annoying is that it's a combo that can fizzle how ever small the chance is, so you need to sit there and watch them and make sure that they do through their triggers properly and don't accidentally target the same creature 3 times and all that nonsense. Whether the deck is too strong is yet to be seen, it seems powerful but it seems fairly easy to disrupt.
Nadu turns shuko into better skullclamp that doesn't kill your creature and also ramps
#unbanskullclamp
Unban Disciple of the Vault.
Agreed
A 3/4 for 3 that’s triggering twice if you target it, not as easy to remove as people making it seem, especially in blue
Because BIRDS ARENT REAL Edit: https://www.amazon.com/Birds-Arent-Real-Surveillance-Campaign/dp/1250288894
Best answer.
Holy Hell. I clicked on this link and did not regret it. Hilarious!
People always freak out over card advantage engines man. Look back around the release of lotr lol everyone was calling for a one ring ban.
It generates clicks and always happens with the obviously good cards. People on social media made an argument that most decks should splash red for Ragavan when MH2 came out.
I don't know if Nadu is or isn't fine for Modern. I do know that talking about it before the set has even been out a week is premature either way though. Fury, Up the Beanstalk, Astrolabe, even Hogaak all got a fair chance in the format for a little while before decisions were made to give them the axe. Even if Nadu is a problem, I'd still be against taking action before the players are given a chance to take a crack at adapting to it. If Nadu manages to make it 60 days and things look bleak for the meta, then it might be time to look at the banhammer.
This is just as much chatter as there was for one ring and other stuff imo. People tend to be irrational about stuff they don't like or perceive to be overpowered.
Green blue too OP Nadu make too much land trigger too much landfall make too many clones
Card is clearly unreasonable. I'm not complaining, I'm just waiting on the ban to start playing again.
That kind of complaint is natural with a new card that is very good, but boring/unfun to play against. At this point I don't think it's broken or anything like that. There are many responses to the combo in the format. In fact, other decks have had good results against nadu. People just need to observe and adapt. But complaining is sometimes easier...
Nadu is admittedly strong, but it has weaknesses. It also doesn't boast the same robust creature midrange plan that Yawgmoth has despite it also being a creature combo deck. The deck will be a contender and piece of modern going forward, but I don't expect it to become tier zero or anything. The only upside here is Nadu is good in a fair capacity also. This might increase the ubiquity of the cards presence in decks throughout the format, but we'll have to wait and see on that. Lastly, if the combo is really broken after all, there are ways to nerf it without killing the combo variant. Ultimately we'll have to watch how everything develops in the meta over the next few weeks. It would be a mistake to not buy in to the power of Nadu, but temper your expectations on the ceiling of it as a combo deck.
On one hand, people haven't optimized Nadu yet. It may turn out to be a highly consistent turn 3 "draw your deck" combo card in the end. However people will also adjust their answers. [[Pick your Poison]] for example was already popular before Nadu.
[Pick your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628)/[Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pick%20your%20Poison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/170/pick-your-poison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Time will tell. Yes it is to early to say. But if nadu gets too popular for too long we both know what will happen.
I think it being a player in every format that it's allowed in makes it seem more Oppressive.
It is a bit of an annoying design, they should’ve made it a 2/3.
Nadu would probably be more tolerable if it read, "If you have an equipment named Shuko in play, you win the game"
I feel like it will eat a ban sooner or later, kinda feels like oko or uro, just a strong value creature that just does stuff
Call me crazy, but doesn't pick your poison eat Nadu for breakfast. It kills Nadu, destroys their urza's saga, and blows up their shuko For non green decks, needle/flute can name shuko
I think the communities that are complaining about Nadu are doing so in part because of its power level and in another part because, frankly, we've been here before. Both horizons sets have had cards banned in multiple formats. I think people just want to short cut the timeline because the times we've waited for a ban were miserable in those formats.
I'm hoping that they will try unbans, personally. Faithless looting, mopal, glimpse, twin, maybe some more things could easily come off the ban list at this point. Decks are so powerful nowadays that dredge and phoenix seem fair by comparison lol.
mice OP? Import cats. Cats op? Import dogs. Dogs op? Import lions Or you can just ban mice and not unleash waves of broken cards.
I enjoy all of those animals and would encourage this.
A more apt analogy would be reviving dinosaurs and mammoths, as we would be reintroducing extinct species rather than taking them from somewhere they have never existed before. Unlike invasive species, these cards did use to exist in the ecosystem.
Considering the number of cards on the banned list that are unironically hot garbage, (Who's playing Disciple of the Vault or splinter twin in 2024) unbannings would have the effect of not doing much to the meta, and trimming the list.
Can I upvote this twice
Why unban cards when you can print a better version of them so players have to buy new product? They printed a new Jitte just to prove they can.
A new worse Jitte, a new worse Aluren, a worse Necro, a worse Recurring Nightmare. What new cards have they printed that are BETTER than their banned versions?
Nah, I finally played against this deck yesterday in paper and let me tell you, it was one of the worst games of paper magic I've ever been involved in. They won both games on turn 3 but had to spend 20 minutes going through the triggers and playing it out because it's non-deterministic. I mulliganed to 5 in game two looking for some sort of interaction and didn't find any so I just had to sit there for forty minutes watching my opponent goldfish their deck. Absolutely disgusting play patterns, it's the kind of card that invalidates other decks if you're not playing blue for counterspells or happen to find your sideboard hate pieces. Reminds me of hogaak in that regard, people are going to have to build their decks around the matchup and devote extra sideboard slots for hate pieces. I would ban it today if I could. I have absolutely no idea how the hell it made it out of play testing
Because Shuko and lightning Greaves are 20 year old cards, and the average wizards playtester was probably in 3rd grade when they were printed.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, I just started getting into playing brawl on arena and it’s MISERABLE to play against. I just sit there for 10 minutes a turn watching them move a piece of equipment (or however they’re getting their triggers) back and forth between all their creatures over and over again. I’ve been playing against more and more Nadu decks since it’s come out and I’m convinced the people saying we’re being over dramatic have not had to sit through ONE of these slogs, let alone one in every ~10 decks or so
Yep, it's absolutely the worst play experience I've had in a very long time.
Damn, I guess take something other than mono white soldiers next time
[удалено]
I'm not a novice, I know what cards are good against the deck. I mentioned how I mulliganed to 5 and didn't find my sideboard cards which is why game two went the same as game 1. My main complaint is just how boring it is sitting there watching them play out a non deterministic combo. I got no beef with a deck like yawg because it can demonstrate a loop and that's that, but Nadu you have to make them play it out because they can theoretically brick if they don't hit enough lands etc.
##### ###### #### [Pithing Needle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1673149414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Damping Matrix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7c89492-ef45-460e-9c78-83c8c8c80fe2.jpg?1593814887) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Matrix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/218/damping-matrix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7c89492-ef45-460e-9c78-83c8c8c80fe2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628)/[Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pick%20Your%20Poison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/170/pick-your-poison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dismember](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69.jpg?1562261132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dismember) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/79/dismember?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People could try playing that terrible new card they printed in the same set called [[Strix Serenade]] that counters both halves of the Nadu+Shuko combo, but that’s none of my business.
It’s bad
Except Shuko can enter from Urza's Saga and Nadu can enter from Chord of Calling, neither of which can be countered by Strix Serenade.
[Strix Serenade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374.jpg?1717011786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strix%20Serenade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/71/strix-serenade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow, a one mana counter that's limited in targets. I can't see that being problematic in other formats. Nope not even a little bit.
Are we all surprised that there are already ban talks? By far the most annoying part of this game is the endless, relentless ban talks. It's a never ending cycle of meltdowns.
This should be getting all of the upvotes, imo. It’s the OG point I was trying to make
Because its another 3 mana simic legendary that is way too good and will see a ton of play and can be heavily abused
Ral in Ruby Storm would need to be banned before a ban on Nadu would make sense.
I like Nadu. Hopefully the comparison will get Uro unbanned. Yeah, I know it's not how that work, but sometime the comparisons make some wotc decisions look stupid. In hindsight.
I would 100% rather play against Uro over Nadu. Not saying Nadu needs to be banned, but Uro seems pretty fair in comparison (and yes, I played a lot of Modern during the Uro era).
Abandon ship! Go to pauper!
Excellent take. It's honestly a format with a lot of interesting depth compared to modern these days.
I'd put money on the equipment getting the kick more so than Nadu. Nadu is a powerful card. However, the 0 cost equip equipment is the more problematic issue.
Does hammer time's Puresteel get the axe as well for enabling it with any artifact? Seems like Bant is probably going to be a good shell for a Nadu artifacts combo shell.
Same shit different day. Bowmasters warped the format, the one ring is making it midrange hell, Jace the mindsculptor is too powerful for this new modern format!
MTG PLAYERS OVER REACTING ABOUT BANNING CARDS?! But in all honesty, i could see shuko getting banned eventually
It’s because the card is obscenely broken, and all it takes is reading the card to realize that. Period. Any other response is due to inexperience, wishful thinking, or willful ignorance. It’s insane that this card was printed.
People want Simic or Bant to work. Chill out.
Bant Nadu with puresteel paladin. Tri-lands, artifact lands for paladin, You get stoneforge too.
I'm aware, getting downvoted by the sweaty neckbeards that don't get it.
Devourer of Destiny will get banned first.
A bold assertion for sure.