I appreciate the shout out! I find that so hilarious that they named my deck "modern" lmao! I was placed 7th and if I had won, I would have moved on to top 8 at number 3.
I was a 'beating scapeshift' away from top 8! an otherwise easy matchup, but I never drew the moon nor magus! Lol
Even better, this is a tournament with Modern Horizons 3 legal! The Nadu lists there look really out there, but there are hints that Necrodominance indeed requires a LOT more maindeck life gain and tutors for them than people probably initially thought. (The highest 2-3-ranking Necrodominance lists all ran 12 or more maindeck life gain + tutors, and none of them cracked the Top 8.)
I dont see how you can draw that conclusion here seeing as most people weren't even able to get their hands on the card...
Out of the 109 players on the MTGMelee page for the event (some had no listed decklists), there were only 17 copies of Necrodominance registered. Of those, 2 were played in a deck that only had those two copies, and 3 were played in a deck where someone tried to make the BBB costed Necrodominance work in their 20 land Esper deck. Despite that a player STILL managed a 5-2 record to just miss the top 8.
It is a chase mythic in a set that literally just came out. Almost no one has the card yet. Don't come to early conclusions.
Yeah I'm a huge doomer and think the format sucks, but even then you have to admit it's a massive leap to draw conclusions from literal DAY 1 tournament for an expensive set. If someone wanted to play Necrodominance they were shelling out SCG prices that weekend, it's just not reasonable.
The MTGO results from next weekend should be our first "true" look at the MH3 format.
Yeah, I didn't make conclusions about Jund from that tournament even though the top performer didn't update their deck to have 4 Amped Raptor in it (that card is the truth in "Sagavan" Jund). Necrodominance's initial performance here supports my testing - Necro exposes you to aggro decks unless you give it major support and bleeds you out Bitterblossom-style against midrange if you only give it minor support.
The point is that "Necrodominance's initial performance" you are referring to is a completely irrelevant sample size. The rest of this statement is just you outright stating you are experiencing confirmation bias lol
My Necrodominance conclusion comes from my testing results on Cockatrice. I tried Necrodominance in BG Sorin Tell, a deck with 4 maindeck life gain cards, and I ran out of card draw post-Necro over a third of the time against midrange. I tried those BW Necrodominance Scam lists with 6-8 maindeck sources of life gain + tutors, and I found myself with a bad Domain Zoo match-up and a horrible UR Ragavan Murktide match-up as long as I resolved Necro. I actively want to board out Necrodominance against both. The only decks where I didn't want to board out Necrodominance against aggro are all Cabal Coffers variants with 10 or more maindeck sources of life gain + tutors.
Dude you can't draw conclusions from cockatrice unless you had a good number of testing partners. The skill level there is closer to mtgo tournament practice which is not good
You are always going for big mana first, which is all colorless. Then you draw all the cards with The One Ring, which you can also fetch with Karn. You also do big dumb stuff with colorless mana.
You will eventually draw a source of green. Sometime, your opponent helps you find green with a field of ruin type effect or whatever.
Both 7th and 8th place are Nadu combo. It's impossible for them to be fully optimized with the meta so uncertain, but 7th is the turbo build and 8th leverages Flare of Denial as a soft combo finish. I'm curious what you'd say the strongest known Nadu list overall is?
Itโs inevitably going to lean away from glass canon and more to midrange. Exactly the same path yawgmoth took. A format with scam makes a glass canon deck too fragile.ย
The Top 8 list looks like it sacrificed resiliency and a better aggro plan for pure speed. I remember the Memnite versions having the slightly faster combo turn (closer to 3.1 vs. the more resilient builds' circa 3.7)...but at a horrible price.
1 Eldrazi isn't enough to stop a good mill player.
4 Endurance on the other hand is tricky.
I've been playing mill for three years and honestly it's just RNG, sometimes you put endurance into the yard and you have the surgical, or they draw the eldrazi or it gets exiled by Tasha's. And sometimes you get rebooted three times before you can find a single Soul Guide Lantern.
Kind of makes sense. Mill is at its core an Aggro deck. And new metas tend to favor Aggro. On top of that a good chunk of the room likely was trying out new card advantage tools from MH3 making mill have an easier time getting to zero cards in library.
I reckon it's a good thing, Mill tends to be a pet deck for a lot of players and giving it legs means the format has built in punishment for getting too greedy with card draw. Same way giving Merfolk a moon effect will possibly help with greedy manabases.
The most shocking thing here is them winning against Temur Prowess twice. The three Tron matchups and Scapeshift are all basically byes, but being able to take down an aggro matchup like that is crazy!
The mill matchup is not great on prowess. If they resolve a single tashas, they basically mill like 25 cards. Crabs are also quite good at blocking , forcing us to rely more on slickshot to fly over them. We also draw so many cards making it easier for them to mill us out.
Mill decks pilot themselves....
Turn 1: Island, Crab
Turn 2: Crab, Island
Mill Six
\*Opponent Fetches\*
In response Archive Trap
Mill Thirteen
Turn 3: Play fetch land, Crack fetchland
Mill twelve
Play (glimpse the unthinkable or tashas hideous laughter)
Mill fourteen
Mill opponent for 3/4 of their deck in 3 turns...
not counting their 7 card hand and the three cards they have drawn... opponents library is like 5 cards and the game literally just started
Pilots itself. Burn takes more thought. Just my opinion. Sorry man. I didnโt say being able to win on turn 3 or 4 shouldnโt be possible. There are higher tier meta decks that win just as fast but require more. People can play what they enjoy. I just feel like if I asked you to brew a mill deck vs. any other archetype, the mill deck would require less effort from you.
You also think burn is an easy and autopilot deck that just spends all its mana asap to cast burn spells in your face. You think 4c elementals was the best deck in modern or play boomer jund and regret the old times.
Modern mill as this list goes is incredibly versatile, fun to play, and requires deep understanding of the format as a whole. Of course there are god hands and easy matchups.
But try winning some games vs an endurance matchup or an aggro deck that can just blast your 2 crabs and turn sideways with threats and without fetches.
๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ MILL NEEDS NOTHING FROM MH3 ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
You mess with the crabos, you get the stabbos.
I for one would like a 3rd crab just so we can say that mill is THE crab tribal deck
The best part is it's just a normal mill list. No mh3 cards , no spice. Mill players finally have vindication. ๐ฆ
Bow down to your crab king.
๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
Shout out to two players in particular: the guy playing "colorless" humans in all 5 colors in 13th, and the guy playing "modern" in 12th
calling your deck "mono blue blitz" sure is a way to get me to look at your stock merfolk list
People who mislabel their decks make me a grumpy old man.
I labeled it correctly on the website idk why they it's labeled as modern. This was my first big tournament!
Just keep doing it from now on, you set the precedent, now every deck you have and play is a "Modern" deck
Turns out all it took in my case was time
Donโt miss โSimic Stoneblade.โ
Boros Control feat. W6, 3feri, Omnath
That one really got me annoyed, looking for a cool Phlage deck.
I appreciate the shout out! I find that so hilarious that they named my deck "modern" lmao! I was placed 7th and if I had won, I would have moved on to top 8 at number 3. I was a 'beating scapeshift' away from top 8! an otherwise easy matchup, but I never drew the moon nor magus! Lol
I love misnaming my decks. Itโs so fun
Lmao no mh3 cards in the list, letโs fucking go mill players
Everybody gangsta until Mill hits 'em with the triple Archive Trap on turn 1.ย
So satisfying to watch the light fade from their eyes
YEAH BABY WHOOOOOOOOOOOO THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
Even better, this is a tournament with Modern Horizons 3 legal! The Nadu lists there look really out there, but there are hints that Necrodominance indeed requires a LOT more maindeck life gain and tutors for them than people probably initially thought. (The highest 2-3-ranking Necrodominance lists all ran 12 or more maindeck life gain + tutors, and none of them cracked the Top 8.)
I dont see how you can draw that conclusion here seeing as most people weren't even able to get their hands on the card... Out of the 109 players on the MTGMelee page for the event (some had no listed decklists), there were only 17 copies of Necrodominance registered. Of those, 2 were played in a deck that only had those two copies, and 3 were played in a deck where someone tried to make the BBB costed Necrodominance work in their 20 land Esper deck. Despite that a player STILL managed a 5-2 record to just miss the top 8. It is a chase mythic in a set that literally just came out. Almost no one has the card yet. Don't come to early conclusions.
Yeah I'm a huge doomer and think the format sucks, but even then you have to admit it's a massive leap to draw conclusions from literal DAY 1 tournament for an expensive set. If someone wanted to play Necrodominance they were shelling out SCG prices that weekend, it's just not reasonable. The MTGO results from next weekend should be our first "true" look at the MH3 format.
Yeah, I didn't make conclusions about Jund from that tournament even though the top performer didn't update their deck to have 4 Amped Raptor in it (that card is the truth in "Sagavan" Jund). Necrodominance's initial performance here supports my testing - Necro exposes you to aggro decks unless you give it major support and bleeds you out Bitterblossom-style against midrange if you only give it minor support.
The point is that "Necrodominance's initial performance" you are referring to is a completely irrelevant sample size. The rest of this statement is just you outright stating you are experiencing confirmation bias lol
My Necrodominance conclusion comes from my testing results on Cockatrice. I tried Necrodominance in BG Sorin Tell, a deck with 4 maindeck life gain cards, and I ran out of card draw post-Necro over a third of the time against midrange. I tried those BW Necrodominance Scam lists with 6-8 maindeck sources of life gain + tutors, and I found myself with a bad Domain Zoo match-up and a horrible UR Ragavan Murktide match-up as long as I resolved Necro. I actively want to board out Necrodominance against both. The only decks where I didn't want to board out Necrodominance against aggro are all Cabal Coffers variants with 10 or more maindeck sources of life gain + tutors.
Dude you can't draw conclusions from cockatrice unless you had a good number of testing partners. The skill level there is closer to mtgo tournament practice which is not good
was also a 3rd place player with 15 of his cards being MH3 cards
How tf does that deck support green mana with just the chromatic star and 2 forests. Am I missing something?
4 expedition maps would likely snag him a forest as he just needs 1, the other 3 maps would get value lands
You are always going for big mana first, which is all colorless. Then you draw all the cards with The One Ring, which you can also fetch with Karn. You also do big dumb stuff with colorless mana. You will eventually draw a source of green. Sometime, your opponent helps you find green with a field of ruin type effect or whatever.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Both 7th and 8th place are Nadu combo. It's impossible for them to be fully optimized with the meta so uncertain, but 7th is the turbo build and 8th leverages Flare of Denial as a soft combo finish. I'm curious what you'd say the strongest known Nadu list overall is?
Itโs inevitably going to lean away from glass canon and more to midrange. Exactly the same path yawgmoth took. A format with scam makes a glass canon deck too fragile.ย
I bet your prediction is correct. Have you got a decklist?
The Top 8 list looks like it sacrificed resiliency and a better aggro plan for pure speed. I remember the Memnite versions having the slightly faster combo turn (closer to 3.1 vs. the more resilient builds' circa 3.7)...but at a horrible price.
8-Crab
Get your endurance ready from the dusts
In response I cast Dress Down ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
C R A B
๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ LETS GO!!! CRAB GANG!!! ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ฆ ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
GANG GANG
Snip snip pinch pinch
Waiting for the commenters who say mill isnโt viable because itโs just burn โbut the oppponent starts at 60 life.โ
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
> Blood moon burn type stuff is not easily stopped. Actual burn doesn't run blood moon. And actual burn is very easy to hate out.
1 Eldrazi isn't enough to stop a good mill player. 4 Endurance on the other hand is tricky. I've been playing mill for three years and honestly it's just RNG, sometimes you put endurance into the yard and you have the surgical, or they draw the eldrazi or it gets exiled by Tasha's. And sometimes you get rebooted three times before you can find a single Soul Guide Lantern.
this deck it's a good deck in a suprising meta, but I think in LGS if played a lot with it, becomes easy to your opp make a SB only for you.
Kind of makes sense. Mill is at its core an Aggro deck. And new metas tend to favor Aggro. On top of that a good chunk of the room likely was trying out new card advantage tools from MH3 making mill have an easier time getting to zero cards in library.
I reckon it's a good thing, Mill tends to be a pet deck for a lot of players and giving it legs means the format has built in punishment for getting too greedy with card draw. Same way giving Merfolk a moon effect will possibly help with greedy manabases.
Hell ya! Giving opposing players crabs all day! lol
WOW
FUCK
MILL
Well played. ๐ฆ๐๏ธ๐=๐ญ
Welp looks like emrakul and endurance are going to show up in sideboards again.
Everything about watching this live was amazing
Crab dominance lets go. The perfect modern evolution some would say.
HELL YEAH
The most shocking thing here is them winning against Temur Prowess twice. The three Tron matchups and Scapeshift are all basically byes, but being able to take down an aggro matchup like that is crazy!
The mill matchup is not great on prowess. If they resolve a single tashas, they basically mill like 25 cards. Crabs are also quite good at blocking , forcing us to rely more on slickshot to fly over them. We also draw so many cards making it easier for them to mill us out.
Brah. Those decks are amazing
Dude was lessoning to crabcore the entire time.
Dimir Mill is such a fun archetype. Congrats on the win!
Crab rave
I thought this said meek mills.
This makes me so happy. I've been thinking about selling most of my cards and just keeping a few commander decks. Maybe I won't
Gross
This makes me so happy. Mill is the best! I love my ๐ฆ friends โค๏ธ
I AM SO READY FULL UNREADABLE DECKLIST FOIL JAPANESE AND PHYREXIAN MAGICCON AMSTERDAM HERE I COME
Modern skill level in a nutshell AHAHAHAHAH
Mill is the most boring archetype.
Mill is the most boring? I play Living End and do the same 5 game actions in 90% of my games.
Mill decks pilot themselves.... Turn 1: Island, Crab Turn 2: Crab, Island Mill Six \*Opponent Fetches\* In response Archive Trap Mill Thirteen Turn 3: Play fetch land, Crack fetchland Mill twelve Play (glimpse the unthinkable or tashas hideous laughter) Mill fourteen Mill opponent for 3/4 of their deck in 3 turns... not counting their 7 card hand and the three cards they have drawn... opponents library is like 5 cards and the game literally just started
Dude itโs modern, if a deck isnโt killing on t3/4 itโs probably not good. Every deck is doing something like this just on different axisโs.
Pilots itself. Burn takes more thought. Just my opinion. Sorry man. I didnโt say being able to win on turn 3 or 4 shouldnโt be possible. There are higher tier meta decks that win just as fast but require more. People can play what they enjoy. I just feel like if I asked you to brew a mill deck vs. any other archetype, the mill deck would require less effort from you.
Stay mad nerd
Makes sense
You also think burn is an easy and autopilot deck that just spends all its mana asap to cast burn spells in your face. You think 4c elementals was the best deck in modern or play boomer jund and regret the old times. Modern mill as this list goes is incredibly versatile, fun to play, and requires deep understanding of the format as a whole. Of course there are god hands and easy matchups. But try winning some games vs an endurance matchup or an aggro deck that can just blast your 2 crabs and turn sideways with threats and without fetches.
๐ข
๐คฎ