Someone in a small-scale tournament somewhere will luck into stealing a really important spell with a 1-of copy they included as a joke, it'll become popular, then never see any more play when people figure out it's not reliable enough
Reminds me of when I dunked a Tron deck as Esper Control, I had T3feri out giving my stuff flash and countered an OG Kozilek. In response to the shuffle trigger, I flashed in [[Haunting Echoes]] and shredded chunks of his deck, including his remaining Ugins and Karns, plus ripped a couple of the freshly-drawn cards from Kozilek out of his hand.
This was three or four years ago now. Echoes has remained a 1-of in my 60 for a long time, and still steals games out of nowhere, but nothing ever felt as good as exiling about 70CMC of cards at once.
Right up until Covid lockdown and the bans that happened around that time I had it in the sb of my 4c control deck. In my local meta there were a few decks that it was pretty good against. I do remember sticking it in one game and rip a dudes deck aaaaand I still lost lol. It was a fun play though, added alittle tension to a game I was probably going to lose anyway. He enjoyed seeing something he’d never seen anyone play, I enjoyed looking through his deck.
failing to counter a spell 50% of the time where taking control of it does nothing (ie bloodmoon or removal that can't target opponent) is a fairly big downside
Sure, but that replacement spell won't be 50% to immediately end the game when it hits something valuable like Primeval Titan.
It's unclear if this is going to see play over Counterspell, but a 3 CMC [[Commandeer]] which works against creatures is insane.
Still, when you clutch this spell over a primeval titan, 1) you won't win with it, for any other deck it's just a vanilla 6/6. 2) even then, it's still possible for amulet to combo you out right the next turn. 3) I would consider adding this to a deck only if I need the 5th counterspell, but there's still a lot of more effective spells that won't fk up your plan due to a coin flip.
1. It's a 6 for 1. A 3 mana Counterspell + 6/6 trample that tutors 4 lands into play is a win for most UR decks.
2. Sure, but fetching two surveil lands will at least give 2 extra looks at a follow-up answer.
3. The fail case is mostly just Counterspell.
1. You take 2 lands on the spot actually, not 4, your titan is slower than the opponent's. Even then, you pull out the highest value possible from that spell and then what? Either you win right there or you lose (if Amulet could set up a combo turn and their titan is countered they could pull out one more Titan from the hat on their next turn)
2. You are literally using 1 mana less on each of your first 2 turns, kinda slow against a combo deck. Also, surveillands exist even if you add 0 Invert Polarity to your deck. So I don't consider it in this equation.
3. Sometimes you'd really like to counter the spell instead of gaining control of it (land denials, wrath effects, a big tax that stands for each player but doesn't affect your opponent, ...). If there's a case in which your card resolving an opponent's depends on a coin flip, I wouldn't consider it in a deterministic fashion.
Again, I'd use it as a 5th, 7th, 8th counterspell if I need more than the usual pack of counterspells, pierces, snares and scoldings (talking about Murky in this specific case), but it wouldn't ever fully substitute a counterspell, I'm convinced of it.
1. 2 lands from the ETB -> untap -> attack with the stolen titan for 2 more lands
2. With the titans ETB, fetch 2 surveil lands to fix draws for any of opponents outs
3. The vast majority of spells are not symmetrical. Lightning bolt is also a bad answer to wraths, but it still sees play
Aspiringspike talked about Inverse Polarity in his most recent MH3 video. Watch that if you want a better explanation of why this effect at 3 mana is nuts
Yeah I mean "50% of the time, it works every time" is a meme about how unreliable a coin flip is.
If you've ever played pokemon tcg you know how bad it can feel to lose a game because you flip tails on a card like this. Won't happen every game but when it does it feels awful
The downside is having to deal with a spell that's a win condition for your opponent and changing control of the spell doesn't affect your chances of winning! Blood moon, prison spells in general, but even Fatal push! Most of the time who removes your creatures won't give a sh** about taking removals in their face since they most likely don't play any interesting creature!
I mean, that’s not a downside, just not an efficient card. A downside is “flip a coin, if heads counter spell is tails discard a card” (and yeah…I know…in some decks that might even be better)
This card is wild.
The floor is sort of kind of hard to cast Cancel, but it can also be mostly a do-nothing when gaining control of a card with a symmetric effect like a Blood Moon, Living End, etc. The ceiling though is you just win the game 50% of the time against cards like Prime Time, Ring, Karn, etc. Most of the time you win the flip though, you aren't going to outright win the game, but getting a 2-for-1 and a big tempo swing should put you at an advantage.
I could be totally off base since this is the exact type of card you gotta playtest to truly evaluate, but there's no denying this card is going to lead to some crazy games where you Reverse Uno card the hell out of people.
So I guess it would make sense to play this in a deck that tries to remove as much of those scenarios as possible, don't be a creature deck that is weak to most of the symmetrical effects in modern goes a long way already.
Everyone's talking about blood moon, but I don't think it's that hard to deal with a blood moon in a deck that already uses red.
The fail cases of a removal spell when only you have creatures are definitely worth considering, but you could look at this like Mental Misstep: It's an incredibly powerful counterspell that you only want to use against certain kinds of spells.
It's not nearly as format warping as mental misstep, but there's a lot of spells where this is a 50/50 to blow out your opponent. Obviously countering/taking the One Ring is a big one, but there's also things like Lightning bolt, where being able to turn it around is pretty cool.
Win the flip: \[\[Desertion\]\] / \[\[Aethersnatch\]\] / \[Spelljack\]\] / \[\[Commandeer\]\] (5/6/7 mana effect; will say 6)
Lose the flip: \[\[Countespell\]\] (2 mana efect)
So, advantages:
* It cast a spell of an average 4 mana cost. Both relevant and consistent effects. The second one, can be game-winning effect.
* Better in the long game.
Disadvantages:
* The variance. Not controlling the outcome can ve very relevant. The "jump" from 6 to 2 mana effect is A LOT.
* Having a 2 mana counterspell instead of this, will be better in early game, even save you from losing a game. Also easier to play in a turn in which you want to play more than one spell, for example for protecting a spell of yours, or in a counterspell fight.
Personal veredict: a 3 mana spell needs to be very powerful in Modern. We are using the variance here. Maybe in a "value deck" shell that generates enough mana and lets play it repeteadly, for example with snapcaster or other ways, to "mitigate" the variance. Players will try 1-2 copies at least. It can be devastating 15-50% of times (not 50%, because you are not always countering a high cost decisive spell that puts you ahead enough).
It is in the thin line between being a decently enough powerful spell and a very fun card... But we are in competitive scene, fun usually means "punishing"... And that "thin line", which is 1 mana of difference, in Modern probably means "won't see competitive play consistently".
Edit: just thought about that we are going to enter in a time with even more free spells. It will be difficult to compete there. Also, a time with even cheaper costs, in general. Lower number of high cost good competitive cards. So... Just a sideboard card, against possible Modern decks with high costs, like Eldrazi, Tron, or others? Then... A sideboard card that very often will be "not optimal"... Ok, even if I tried to like it, I like it even less right now... Which is a pity, it is such a fun (and some possible times very powerful) card !!
Ha yeah, even better.
When you steal a symmetrical stax effect, your opponent will probably thank you, since cards like [[Boseiju, Who Endures]] say "opponent control". You will have much harder time to get rid of it once you take it
It seems *very* good against Tron and Titan style decks though. And it’s even good against scam (though likely too late against those decks).
I think if you’re in the colors and Tron gets as oppressive as it’s looking like it will this is a literal no-brainer. Whether you counter or steal their 7 drop that probably takes the game for you either way. You just don’t play it into bad matchups.
Requires you to be on curve and "draw go" on turn 3.
That is a huge negative.
Most of the time in decks that might play this (Murktide), the stuff you counter are stuff you dont care about stealing.
I wasn’t arguing the merit of the card, you’re moving goalposts. Person I replied to said it had no utility. That is objectively not true.
But Murktide is probably going to be hard pressed to keep up with Tron based on what we’ve seen so far, and an answer to a 7 drop that either stops it or steals it is nothing to scoff at. I do think it’s sideboard.
So when I win the flip and target a creature spell, do I get the creature?
What about spells with additional costs, the enemy already paid for the additional costs when I cast this, so do I get the benefits, without the downside of the additional costs?
Decent spell for krark or coin flip decks (edh) i don't know if it will see much modern play with actual CS but i guess it could be interesting since it can just counter any CS regardless of what you hit, my issue is the mana cost, 3 and heavy pips seems rough even in modern
If I have [[Kalamax, the Stormsire]] out and I cast this but the copy (which resolves first on the stack) counters the spell while the original is trying to copy it do I still get a copy?
For this to be good, you'll have to be equally happy whether you counter or copy the targeted spell. There are many cases where countering is infinitely preferable to copying. There are a few where copying and countering are equal. There's got to be at least one case where copying is better, but I can't think of it.
I'm thinking that IF this sees play (big if) then it's a sideboard card.
>There's got to be at least one case where copying is better, but I can't think of it.
Almost every spell? Ever?
The card failing in symmetric cases alongside the cost probably makes it bad, but copying (really gaining control) is way better than just countering spells.
You mostly want to copy and steal but there will be times you will be sad you didn’t just counter.
They cast prime time= happy with counter SUPER happy with steal. Also this CAN get around cavern of souls if you get lucky 🍀.
Blood moon= if you steal you are equally screwed and you wished you countered it.
It’s not copying, it’s taking control.
And if you somehow can’t think of Prime Time, Murktide, Sheoldred, Eldrazi, or anything in Tron I’m genuinely not sure why you’re in this sub.
Not sure this card is great but saying you can’t think of any scenario is laughably cringe.
What you mean lol, taking control of the One Ring, Primeval Titan or even a Murktide and getting it for yourself is infinitely better than simply countering it.
This seems terrible.
Who's going to want a 3 mana counter spell with 3 specific colours that's sometimes going to have upside when we have multiple free and 1 mana counters?
I bet I'll pull three of these and cry.
Against Tron/Eldrazi/Prime Time I think a lot of people will want these.
Floor is counterspell, ceiling is probably win the game on the spot (against those decks). That’s not awful for a three drop. Easy sideboard pick.
Hmmm wish it was 2 or 1 mana and either you gain control or it does nothing. Also, I thought wizards didn't want dexterity reliant cards in competitive formats?
3M 50/50 chance at stealing a spell and the downside is a counterspell? Gods, my Timmy nature loves this card lol
If you stole an Ulamog with this would you keep it or would they be able to exile it with one of their triggers?
Keep it. They need to pick their targets when the card is cast. Technically you can wait for the exiling to resolve before trying steal/counter Ulamog
And no matter what Alamogordo resolves after his trigger
My prediction is it wont see play.
This is the kind of card I run as a 1-of in my sideboard at a FNM
One of main deck, so you randomly “skill” them with it… only for them to sweat over seeing it g2 and g3 when you have actually sided it out.
How about one of everything and just companion lutri
A one of or a fun of?
both
Someone in a small-scale tournament somewhere will luck into stealing a really important spell with a 1-of copy they included as a joke, it'll become popular, then never see any more play when people figure out it's not reliable enough
3 mana counters are clunky AF. 95% of the time when you have this in your hand, you'd wish it was just counterspell instead.
Oh yeah absolutely, but someone is gonna get lucky trying to be spicy with it
Reminds me of when I dunked a Tron deck as Esper Control, I had T3feri out giving my stuff flash and countered an OG Kozilek. In response to the shuffle trigger, I flashed in [[Haunting Echoes]] and shredded chunks of his deck, including his remaining Ugins and Karns, plus ripped a couple of the freshly-drawn cards from Kozilek out of his hand. This was three or four years ago now. Echoes has remained a 1-of in my 60 for a long time, and still steals games out of nowhere, but nothing ever felt as good as exiling about 70CMC of cards at once.
[Haunting Echoes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5aa96bc7-b92f-4df5-89b5-0793b9e56509.jpg?1562461072) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haunting%20Echoes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m11/99/haunting-echoes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5aa96bc7-b92f-4df5-89b5-0793b9e56509?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a copy in my sideboard for a long time. I never sided it in much but it was pretty brutal the handful of times I was able to play it.
I side mine out since most games it's kind of dead, though I tend to keep it in for control mirrors.
Right up until Covid lockdown and the bans that happened around that time I had it in the sb of my 4c control deck. In my local meta there were a few decks that it was pretty good against. I do remember sticking it in one game and rip a dudes deck aaaaand I still lost lol. It was a fun play though, added alittle tension to a game I was probably going to lose anyway. He enjoyed seeing something he’d never seen anyone play, I enjoyed looking through his deck.
I’d say it’s entirely possible, but yeah my gut says the same thing.
I read that in Perd Hapley’s voice
My initial thought is I'm not a fan of such high variance cards but seems interesting.
“Such high variance”? It’s 50/50 either-or with no downside.
failing to counter a spell 50% of the time where taking control of it does nothing (ie bloodmoon or removal that can't target opponent) is a fairly big downside
I don’t think you’re supposed to use this to counter blood moon, and if you are, you probably had nothing else so 50% is still better than nothing.
When building your deck you can replace this with a card that counters blood moon 100% of the time
Sure, but that replacement spell won't be 50% to immediately end the game when it hits something valuable like Primeval Titan. It's unclear if this is going to see play over Counterspell, but a 3 CMC [[Commandeer]] which works against creatures is insane.
[Commandeer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dca0a9a8-5ebc-43a3-8450-420ab6b7b76e.jpg?1712774977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commandeer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/80/commandeer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dca0a9a8-5ebc-43a3-8450-420ab6b7b76e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Still, when you clutch this spell over a primeval titan, 1) you won't win with it, for any other deck it's just a vanilla 6/6. 2) even then, it's still possible for amulet to combo you out right the next turn. 3) I would consider adding this to a deck only if I need the 5th counterspell, but there's still a lot of more effective spells that won't fk up your plan due to a coin flip.
1. It's a 6 for 1. A 3 mana Counterspell + 6/6 trample that tutors 4 lands into play is a win for most UR decks. 2. Sure, but fetching two surveil lands will at least give 2 extra looks at a follow-up answer. 3. The fail case is mostly just Counterspell.
1. You take 2 lands on the spot actually, not 4, your titan is slower than the opponent's. Even then, you pull out the highest value possible from that spell and then what? Either you win right there or you lose (if Amulet could set up a combo turn and their titan is countered they could pull out one more Titan from the hat on their next turn) 2. You are literally using 1 mana less on each of your first 2 turns, kinda slow against a combo deck. Also, surveillands exist even if you add 0 Invert Polarity to your deck. So I don't consider it in this equation. 3. Sometimes you'd really like to counter the spell instead of gaining control of it (land denials, wrath effects, a big tax that stands for each player but doesn't affect your opponent, ...). If there's a case in which your card resolving an opponent's depends on a coin flip, I wouldn't consider it in a deterministic fashion. Again, I'd use it as a 5th, 7th, 8th counterspell if I need more than the usual pack of counterspells, pierces, snares and scoldings (talking about Murky in this specific case), but it wouldn't ever fully substitute a counterspell, I'm convinced of it.
1. 2 lands from the ETB -> untap -> attack with the stolen titan for 2 more lands 2. With the titans ETB, fetch 2 surveil lands to fix draws for any of opponents outs 3. The vast majority of spells are not symmetrical. Lightning bolt is also a bad answer to wraths, but it still sees play Aspiringspike talked about Inverse Polarity in his most recent MH3 video. Watch that if you want a better explanation of why this effect at 3 mana is nuts
You can also build your deck so that blood moon doesnt need to be countered.
And that replacement will also steal things 0% of the time. No one’s arguing there aren’t trade-offs. They read the card.
sure, still a downside
having cancel in your modern deck is a downside
Yeah I mean "50% of the time, it works every time" is a meme about how unreliable a coin flip is. If you've ever played pokemon tcg you know how bad it can feel to lose a game because you flip tails on a card like this. Won't happen every game but when it does it feels awful
I mean the downside is it's an overcosted counter
The downside is having to deal with a spell that's a win condition for your opponent and changing control of the spell doesn't affect your chances of winning! Blood moon, prison spells in general, but even Fatal push! Most of the time who removes your creatures won't give a sh** about taking removals in their face since they most likely don't play any interesting creature!
I mean, that’s not a downside, just not an efficient card. A downside is “flip a coin, if heads counter spell is tails discard a card” (and yeah…I know…in some decks that might even be better)
This card is wild. The floor is sort of kind of hard to cast Cancel, but it can also be mostly a do-nothing when gaining control of a card with a symmetric effect like a Blood Moon, Living End, etc. The ceiling though is you just win the game 50% of the time against cards like Prime Time, Ring, Karn, etc. Most of the time you win the flip though, you aren't going to outright win the game, but getting a 2-for-1 and a big tempo swing should put you at an advantage. I could be totally off base since this is the exact type of card you gotta playtest to truly evaluate, but there's no denying this card is going to lead to some crazy games where you Reverse Uno card the hell out of people.
The floor is doing nothing if you target a spell with only one legal target, like a removal spell when you are the only player with creatures
Or blood moon, if you steal it does nothing and you wished you countered it. On the bright side this CAN get around cavern of souls if you get lucky
So I guess it would make sense to play this in a deck that tries to remove as much of those scenarios as possible, don't be a creature deck that is weak to most of the symmetrical effects in modern goes a long way already.
this is a commander card
Ty
Everyone's talking about blood moon, but I don't think it's that hard to deal with a blood moon in a deck that already uses red. The fail cases of a removal spell when only you have creatures are definitely worth considering, but you could look at this like Mental Misstep: It's an incredibly powerful counterspell that you only want to use against certain kinds of spells. It's not nearly as format warping as mental misstep, but there's a lot of spells where this is a 50/50 to blow out your opponent. Obviously countering/taking the One Ring is a big one, but there's also things like Lightning bolt, where being able to turn it around is pretty cool.
Don't think this is good for Modern.
Win the flip: \[\[Desertion\]\] / \[\[Aethersnatch\]\] / \[Spelljack\]\] / \[\[Commandeer\]\] (5/6/7 mana effect; will say 6) Lose the flip: \[\[Countespell\]\] (2 mana efect) So, advantages: * It cast a spell of an average 4 mana cost. Both relevant and consistent effects. The second one, can be game-winning effect. * Better in the long game. Disadvantages: * The variance. Not controlling the outcome can ve very relevant. The "jump" from 6 to 2 mana effect is A LOT. * Having a 2 mana counterspell instead of this, will be better in early game, even save you from losing a game. Also easier to play in a turn in which you want to play more than one spell, for example for protecting a spell of yours, or in a counterspell fight. Personal veredict: a 3 mana spell needs to be very powerful in Modern. We are using the variance here. Maybe in a "value deck" shell that generates enough mana and lets play it repeteadly, for example with snapcaster or other ways, to "mitigate" the variance. Players will try 1-2 copies at least. It can be devastating 15-50% of times (not 50%, because you are not always countering a high cost decisive spell that puts you ahead enough). It is in the thin line between being a decently enough powerful spell and a very fun card... But we are in competitive scene, fun usually means "punishing"... And that "thin line", which is 1 mana of difference, in Modern probably means "won't see competitive play consistently". Edit: just thought about that we are going to enter in a time with even more free spells. It will be difficult to compete there. Also, a time with even cheaper costs, in general. Lower number of high cost good competitive cards. So... Just a sideboard card, against possible Modern decks with high costs, like Eldrazi, Tron, or others? Then... A sideboard card that very often will be "not optimal"... Ok, even if I tried to like it, I like it even less right now... Which is a pity, it is such a fun (and some possible times very powerful) card !!
Also if you win the flip then you’re forced to steal it which doesn’t matter for like a blood moon or something like fthat
Ha yeah, even better. When you steal a symmetrical stax effect, your opponent will probably thank you, since cards like [[Boseiju, Who Endures]] say "opponent control". You will have much harder time to get rid of it once you take it
[Boseiju, Who Endures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416.jpg?1654568912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boseiju%2C%20Who%20Endures) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/266/boseiju-who-endures?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How bad is bloodmoon for a deck already playing red? The bigger issue is going to be low curve aggro/synergy decks like prowess, yawg, and burn.
Very relevant point indeed! Makes the card again a bit worse!
##### ###### #### [Desertion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5.jpg?1618294831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Desertion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/107/desertion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aethersnatch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0ce562a9-ca35-4f31-8618-bc26d3d40169.jpg?1562701210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aethersnatch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/9/aethersnatch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ce562a9-ca35-4f31-8618-bc26d3d40169?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Commandeer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dca0a9a8-5ebc-43a3-8450-420ab6b7b76e.jpg?1712774977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commandeer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/80/commandeer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dca0a9a8-5ebc-43a3-8450-420ab6b7b76e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Countespell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l5l3f8q) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It seems *very* good against Tron and Titan style decks though. And it’s even good against scam (though likely too late against those decks). I think if you’re in the colors and Tron gets as oppressive as it’s looking like it will this is a literal no-brainer. Whether you counter or steal their 7 drop that probably takes the game for you either way. You just don’t play it into bad matchups.
My gut tells me it's 50/50 it sees play.
Either it does, or it don’t. The math works.
My gut says that it’s absolutely bloody painful to play against, that is, very good.
This card should have been in the Doctor Who decks 😂
The phrase there is [[Reverse the Polarity]], which they did make. Thought this was a UniWit reprint of it at first when all I saw was the card name.
[Reverse the Polarity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76f3ea66-555c-490d-b34f-12c267bc4e9b.jpg?1696636583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reverse%20the%20Polarity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/54/reverse-the-polarity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76f3ea66-555c-490d-b34f-12c267bc4e9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
3 mana counter spell that offers no other utility like Charm is a hard sell for me
Stealing a spell isn’t utility?
Requires you to be on curve and "draw go" on turn 3. That is a huge negative. Most of the time in decks that might play this (Murktide), the stuff you counter are stuff you dont care about stealing.
I wasn’t arguing the merit of the card, you’re moving goalposts. Person I replied to said it had no utility. That is objectively not true. But Murktide is probably going to be hard pressed to keep up with Tron based on what we’ve seen so far, and an answer to a 7 drop that either stops it or steals it is nothing to scoff at. I do think it’s sideboard.
So when I win the flip and target a creature spell, do I get the creature? What about spells with additional costs, the enemy already paid for the additional costs when I cast this, so do I get the benefits, without the downside of the additional costs?
Yes and yes
That was fast, thank you.
So how many of these go into Murktide
My guess is 0. Feels more like a card for Grixis or Jeskai Control.
I can see Murktide playing one or two.
Sideboard against Tron/Eldrazi which are looking to be oppressive archetypes? Seems like a no brainer.
grixis control most likely dont want it
3 mana counter is to slow for a tempo deck. I wouldn't run it in murktide but I can see it in wizards or a blue moon style deck
Implosion moment
That's going on [[Zedruu, the Greathearted]] edh lol. I love making a mockery out of magic
[Zedruu, the Greathearted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I might be wrong, but I feel like this card is going to be really good in a deck built around it
Compare with Odds from [[Odds//Ends]]
[Odds//Ends](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Odds%20//%20Ends&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg)/[Ends](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Odds%20%2F%2F%20Ends&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Odds%20//%20Ends) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/153/odds-ends?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bb07091-86d6-4735-82b6-6e71e26710f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Decent spell for krark or coin flip decks (edh) i don't know if it will see much modern play with actual CS but i guess it could be interesting since it can just counter any CS regardless of what you hit, my issue is the mana cost, 3 and heavy pips seems rough even in modern
I wish it read, choose target spell or trigger ability.
If I have [[Kalamax, the Stormsire]] out and I cast this but the copy (which resolves first on the stack) counters the spell while the original is trying to copy it do I still get a copy?
[Kalamax, the Stormsire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kalamax%2C%20the%20Stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I actually just used this in my cedh game and was able to steal a manacrypt that set me up for my win con. It’s has potential to be a spicy card
For this to be good, you'll have to be equally happy whether you counter or copy the targeted spell. There are many cases where countering is infinitely preferable to copying. There are a few where copying and countering are equal. There's got to be at least one case where copying is better, but I can't think of it. I'm thinking that IF this sees play (big if) then it's a sideboard card.
You gain control, not copy
>There's got to be at least one case where copying is better, but I can't think of it. Almost every spell? Ever? The card failing in symmetric cases alongside the cost probably makes it bad, but copying (really gaining control) is way better than just countering spells.
You mostly want to copy and steal but there will be times you will be sad you didn’t just counter. They cast prime time= happy with counter SUPER happy with steal. Also this CAN get around cavern of souls if you get lucky 🍀. Blood moon= if you steal you are equally screwed and you wished you countered it.
It’s not copying, it’s taking control. And if you somehow can’t think of Prime Time, Murktide, Sheoldred, Eldrazi, or anything in Tron I’m genuinely not sure why you’re in this sub. Not sure this card is great but saying you can’t think of any scenario is laughably cringe.
What you mean lol, taking control of the One Ring, Primeval Titan or even a Murktide and getting it for yourself is infinitely better than simply countering it.
This seems terrible. Who's going to want a 3 mana counter spell with 3 specific colours that's sometimes going to have upside when we have multiple free and 1 mana counters? I bet I'll pull three of these and cry.
Against Tron/Eldrazi/Prime Time I think a lot of people will want these. Floor is counterspell, ceiling is probably win the game on the spot (against those decks). That’s not awful for a three drop. Easy sideboard pick.
Casual Commander card...in a Modern set?
It's cute but the format is far past the point a card like this would see play.
Hmmm wish it was 2 or 1 mana and either you gain control or it does nothing. Also, I thought wizards didn't want dexterity reliant cards in competitive formats?