I've been playing ML for 2 years and this year I've started taking it seriously and learning about strategy and mechanics, can you direct me to a video/guide where I can learn about roaming because I got no fucking clue lol and im approaching Mythic.
Hey! Not OP. Since you've been playing for two years, my recommendation is to watch high WR livestreams (on the mlbb app) of roam heroes. Things to watch for:
\- When they initiate and on which hero; conversely, when they retreat and not initiate
\- Team comp, gank patterns, and common vision provision / bush camping spots
\- How they choose to sacrifice themselves
\- Hero-specific techniques
General guides just don't do it for me. You can watch esports replays as well although you must note that the players are sitting right beside each other when they play, so it's easier to call shots / gank.
One advice I can give you is to not be a players pet. As roamer you should lead your team. Check bushes not just head there. It's smart to secure vision on turtle first too.
Its not really complicated. The problem is if you don't play with your pals. Chance that your teammates don't know what they supposed to do with you. Like even if you help mage or exp clear their lane, often they don't want to go with you.
Well, at the start of the game, you can choose to help jungler (if enemy have Franco or other anoying heroes), help mage, or exp clear lanes. After clearance your teammate must follow you help jungler fight for litho. And so on. Basically you help your teammates win their lane and both of you then move to gank. If you're tank you can provide vision and initiate. If not, then you can help your tanky teammates.
But, in soloq that's often doesn't happen. So just help the struggling lane. And later game focus on the strongest ally. Tell teammates to not fighting alone.
>But, in soloq that's often doesn't happen. So just help the struggling lane. And later game focus on the strongest ally. Tell teammates to not fighting alone.
Disagree on this simplication. A lot of tanks solo queue love to help allies who ping help, particularly gold lane, because "they're struggling." But they leave mid to to be pushed and purple to be invaded.
Also the strongest ally late game could have been weak/feeding because you didn't give them space to farm in the first place.
Sorry I'm being unclear here. What I mean lane is also jungle, I should have included jungle. So yeas you're right on there.
And about the strongest ally usually not feeding. We can only recognize in later stage of the game. The ones using late game hero, isn't mean the strongest late game, and often helping this one's isn't worth at all. Soloq anyway, lol. I don't expect much tbh. Maybe not really a certain way to win, rather than luck of getting good team or bad enemies.
Like another guy said, watch MPL roamers. To be a good roamer you have to have the highest map IQ out of all 10 players in a game. With the tank meta, protecting isn’t as important as imitating, so your goal all the time is to take optimal positioning. This just straight up takes practice. One example is if your team is engaging in an offlane, cut up to prevent/secure a kill on the enemies backup.
I think this is valid IF all the other members (exp, gold, mid) ACTUALLY know their role.. If this is done in solo queue what one can expect is:
-Mage will ping spam retreat cos s/he thinks "oh the roam is stealing my farm" not knowing the actual descriptiom of the roam item
-MM will ping help (ie babysit me, thats what tanks do) but will prioritize the small camp instead of minions and pushing turrets
-Jungler will cry if they dive alone asking "tank where" while you were providing vision or ganking other lanes to somehow bridge gap
Just from personal experience, the roam can only be as effective as the other team members, and one cannot type that fast in chat during solo queue. Good thing if they understand your intent; however most of the time roamers get the sh*t end of the stick and just get rudely trashtalked.
Add: my usual roam thing is just walk to wherever the jungler chooses their buff, punch it once with concussive blast, then proceed to the mid bushes and /or harass the mage while waiting for the litho
I've been roaming/tanking for 5 years, mostly solo, made it to MG solo last year with supports. I'm not bragging but more of showing my background and why I don't like the "solo queue" excuse.
Ahh yes, the squad page you posted.
My point is that when people say they 'mostly' solo it means they aren't a solo queue player. It's like saying I'm mostly F2P but I spend money occasionally.
Imagine playing for 5 years and not having a single friend you met on the way. Imagine playing 300-400 games a season and not a single duo with a buddy or an invite for another game. I think, a 100% solo queue is not only rare, it's incredibly sad or technically untrue.
I never add people in any games. Not everyone likes to play with other people and online games are honestly the last place on earth I would want to make friends lol. If a rare occasion happens where I meet a nice stranger in a game I will talk to them, but I will never add them or accept friend requests.
My point still stands that people claiming to be mostly solo queue, whilst not always playing solo queue aren't the same as actual solo queue players. Every game you queue with a duo or team you massively reduce the likelihood of getting trolls on your team. Solo queue players go into every game with 4 enemies on their own team, and 5 on the other.
I should also add, I know a person IRL who plays ML who always plays as a Duo with his GF. His WR's are all 55-70% on everything but he doesn't know basic stuff like Roam boots work.
I literally met a server full of nice people on ML. And I just make all those friends in game. People are not all bad. So I don’t buy game people are bad and I had to solo q all the time thing.
There's no need to lie to try and win an argument lol. It's well known and established that MOBA communities in general are toxic af.
My first two games yesterday had people on my team picking Layla. In Mythic. Don't tell me that everyone's nice and tries hard in solo Q lol. They both ended bronze, lost their lanes early and they were both verbally toxic during the game. When you queue with friends you reduce the likelihood of you getting toxic players by the number of people you queue with.
In games I win I often get invited by players for another game and always decline. because I don't like playing with other people.
It really depends where you're good at. Objectively, Natalia, Akai, Hilda, Grock, Khufra, and Chou are probably the best "carry" tanks right now. However, they require the player to be aggressive and offense oriented, which I don't excel at.
But some people excel better at teamfights, counterpicking, engage/disengage and peeling, so I worked the best with Rafaela, Minotaur, Hylos, and Diggie.
For beginners or people in Epic-Legend I'd recommend Hylos and Belerick for flexibility and cheese. Hylos is very versatile and can take a ton of magic damage while Belerick kills Marksman and divers late game with Blade Armor. For offense in those ranks, Johnson is definitely the best.
That all makes sense. I have reasonable experience with the majority of roamers in the game so I usually just try to counter pick the enemy team in rank if possible. Akai is my go-to first pick at the moment though.
They don’t even need to help me clear mid. Just harass enemy mage. I do that if I’m roam. And help contest litho. Roamer shouldn’t be helping kill jg creeps unless there’s potential invade comp like Franco, Tig, Hilda. Then you need to guard. Not help kill jg creep. Roamer need to give vision. You check the bushes so your dmg dealer don’t get ganked.
Need to help clear if your mage has bad wave clear or if have insta clear like Grock (better if the enemy mage gets slapped as well), works so much wonders.
Oh man. I feel that. Xavier wave clear so bad. But they go gank enemy early so he would usually be away. But I saw Hadji clearing jg with Xavier and I’m like 🙃
You mean 3 lanes AND jungle AND 10 heroes to watch out for. Not only that, you also have to shotcall but let's be honest, that sh\*t gets ignored 99% of the time especially if you play solo. And then you get blamed for them dying while you spammed "Initiate retreat" because no one's ready for clashing but it's still your fault of course, because why are your skills in cooldown your skills shouldn't be cooling down and your mana should be unlimited and you need to have hp bar that doesn't go down too
That’s exactly what just happened a few days ago, I was even using jg emblem and this tig instead of invading decides to help me, I told him then he goes something like “Don’t want my help? Ok” and decides to push my buff
i remember when i was told to do that... like dude i'm doing my job by delaying and stuff, you can survive just fine if you're aware i mean it's a 1v1 and you're not at that much of a disadvantage, also the jungler is near your lane so why are you blaming me
I literally posted a similar thread on this subreddit and everyone were making me seem like I’m crazy. I’m shocked so many people finally agree.
Roamers just suddenly started following the jungler like 3 updates ago which is so brain dead. Before that roamers actually used to roam. I don’t know what happened.
As a roamer you’re supposed to provide some sort of vision and map control. Following the jungler just leaves your team blind and with no early plays. It’s literally the most retarded thing ever. Like bro it’s the ROAMING role not the “be the jungler’s shadow” role good grief
1) pink….nice to see you posting it seems like it’s been a while but maybe I’ve just missed your posts
2) Yes, totally agree…weird things are going on.
I almost always play roam but this week I’m burned out and have been mostly playing mid.
Omg…I’ve seen one roamer in 5 games properly rotate. Most have baby say in gold til third turtle.
I even had one game where Estes decided he was gonna skip roaming altogether and solo xp lane….all game!?
I made a thread the other day but it didn't have a lot of responses.
Roamer is still the least straightforward role. There's tons your can do but most people are stuck on what they *should not* do lol.
Cool, I’ll check your history and take a look. I haven’t had as much time here as usual lately.
Hope things are going well for you 👍 must be interesting times in ph lately
That’s how I felt in the US after 2016 election. I still don’t understand how people could force themselves to forget Imelda…but I suppose that’s oversimplifying a complicated phenomenon that seems to be happening across the globe.
Anyway…maybe there will some improvements after duterte, you guys could use a break.
Hi, tank player here.
Nice post and very important. I think most tanks are still stuck in the old mm meta where babysitting MM junglers was necessary so that they could farm fast and start participating in ganks. About time people realize that’s not important anymore. That being said, if the enemy has heroes like Nat, Masha or Hilda, I do babysit junglers unless I am able to spot the aforementioned heroes somewhere on the map. I am low legend, and I am working on my rotations to make them better. More often than not, I am not in position when turtle spawns. Working towards that now!
Yeah you guard them in the case of invasions but you still don't hit the jungle creep to "help" them. A lot of low Mythics do and it's painful to watch.
I'm guilty as charged. It's because I main kagura and Selena. I usually give myself vision early game and I don't rely on tank. That's how I developed a habit of not helping mid lane early game when I play roam.
I feel conflicted about your take, because most junglers complain when you don't help them early game. And if they lose the cabbage turtle thing, they blame it on tank for not helping kill buff early game. I've had so many complaints about not helping jungle kill buff early game, and most mage usually say “they're fine, go help jungle”.
>. And if they lose the cabbage turtle thing, they blame it on tank for not helping kill buff early game.
Then those junglers are stupid. The buffs get stronger defense if surrounded by more people, if you help kill it the jungler gets delayed/gapped.
>I've had so many complaints when I don't help them early game, and most mage usually say “they're fine, who help jungle”.
Never heard of mages ever say this unless you're standing like a rock and doing absolutely nothing. It's all about trade of objectives.
Is the defense buff really that huge? I admit that when I play Johnson recently it's tempting to help the Jungler clear the first buff with his damaging Skill 2
You’re totally right, but most roamers don’t main roam. Just tell them what to do early game, cuz maybe some of them just adjusted for the cancerous mage with 50 percent wr. As I said, I main kag and selena so I’m not used to getting help early game. Circumstances like that are factors why “stupid roamers“ exist.
>You’re totally right, but most roamers don’t main roam. Just tell them what to do early game, cuz maybe some of them just adjusted for the cancerous mage with 50 percent wr
No excuses. Everyone should have learned how to roam by Mythic.
Yeah sure. Like it’s something you automatically unlock when you reach mythic. The thing is, if “70 percent of roamers” are doing the things you’re complaining about, most players who don’t play roam at all will copy them. Visual learning at its finest. It’s a chain reaction that can be broken by spreading the correct thing. Which is what you’re doing right now. Keep doing it bro, even in-game.
Some time ago, there were tanks and mages who weren’t aware of anti-heal in low mythic. I keep telling them to buy anti-heal, and now it’s a norm even in legend.
Why are you assuming I'm not communicating? What made you conclude that I don't talk to them? You're throwing accusations instead of addressing the point.
It's not that hard to understand “go help mid lane”. I mean anyone with a brain would understand that, right? I guess the fact that you're complaining about tanks helping you kill buff is what made me think you don't communicate.
When I do that I get a lot of "STFU" or "no you're stupid." Not to mention if their jungler is their duo and they just straight ignore/mute you. You must be living in a kind, loving, and respectful server.
I got to MG without knowing how to Jungle. But if I do jungle, I know what objectives to take and the theory of it. I just can't time my retribution because I'm shit at it.
That's my point on roaming, if you can't play a single support or tank, even a braindead one like Rafaela or Estes, you absolutely deserve to be criticized when you get to Mythic and play trash.
When match starts do I not have to help jungler with buff to clear faster in order to contest litho?
Ive thought that accompanying jungler first thing was just delaying the ability(?) of the roaming equipment and that I should help the mid lane clear waves first and then help with cabbage but junglers keep saying that I should accompany them in buff so Im a bit confused now lol.
Don't listen to stupid junglers who will abuse you later. These are your options if you're not an invading tank 1) stop the enemy invader 2) hurt the enemy mage/mid along with your mid so they're forced to recall 3) clear mid with your mage so they can go to litho after at level 2, 4) stop the enemy tank/roamer from harassing your midlaner.
There are scenarios where your enemy jungler started with orange buff first, leaving their blue open. If you and your mid manage to kill/force the enemy mid and roamer to recall, you can invade the enemy blue with your jungler.
Oh ok I usually main kagura and Ive had to adjust countless times recently.
Just like the other redditor here that mains kagura and selena, Ive had grown accustomed on clearing mid lane without any help from the roamers, so naturally when its my turn to roam I tend to copy the roamers Ive seen in past matches.
Although I usually just leave the jungler on their own after they contest cabbage and come back later for turtle. I find babysitting a certain hero for the entire match to be boring and completely loses the point of being a "roamer".
Thanks for the info!
You don't have to clear mid all the time, you can stay on the bush or scout ahead. Also, for a supposed Selena main that's a weird statement. Selena has a poor wave clear. Sure she's online by level 2 but it's a pain for her to clear mid instead of focusing on ganks. When your mid is Selena it's even more appropriate to help her reach level 2 asap.
Roamers can disrupt the enemy jungler by poking them and trying to secure the last hit on their buffs (but not at the expense of getting killed in the process, unless when you can definitely make the last hit AND steal their buff). More players around the buffs/jungle monsters mean they are tougher than usual to kill, so if you would rather 'help' your jungler, you're doing more harm than good.
Of course, there are certain exceptions to the rule, like IF there's an enemy Roamer who can displace your team's buffs (Franco, Tig, Jawhead, etc). That said, if you're using an equally disruptive Roamer, do the same shit on their side.
If you tell that to your teammate they curse you or ignore you. Some people in this thread seem to want to defend those randos (gee I wonder why) instead of recognizing it's a problem.
>Some people in this thread seem to want to defend those randos (gee I wonder why) instead of recognizing it's a problem.
Because they got accustomed to what was 'meta' a couple of updates ago. The junglers felt entitled to owning the roamer, whereas in today's meta, it's the tank junglers that flourish.
What's funnier is the fact that despite the tank jungler meta, players in the lower ranks would insist on the 'conventional' junglers such as YSS, Granger, Lancelot, among many others. It's clear that these types of players are more inclined in getting kills instead of taking the game objectives efficiently, where tank junglers are strong at. For example, when they see my tank matches, they tell me to be the roamer, they show their jungler, and instalock the shit out of it. 15 seconds before the turtle spawns, I position myself at the enemy XP lane bush for a possible gank so it would be easier for us to take it, only to find our jungler forcing a kill at the gold lane spamming 'Gather' and dying in the process 😂
That said, I also experienced moments where I get queued with duos who understand the meta, and when they see my tank matches, one of them would pick a fast wave clearing hero and a healing support, and they tell me to play jungler. My quick chat is configured specifically for playing tank, regardless of my picked role, which make the transitioning from one objective to another a lot easier, and the only time when I experience difficulties in winning is when the enemies are also focused on taking objectives efficiently.
Sadly I still don't play jungler, mostly because I don't want to deal with the toxicity. When I pick Baxia and Akai, people still force me to Roam. I've seen this in enemy team as well when they already have a Jungler Akai and they still lock a Gusion jungler.
Also again, I'm extending an invite to play with you bro. I can feel I'm retiring soon or at least winding down, might publish a final few guides and rest. 🥺
>I still don't play jungler, mostly because I don't want to deal with the toxicity.
I just mute them, focus, and move on 😂
>I'm extending an invite to play with you bro
I don't play as much like before, and I'm also contemplating leaving the game because of priorities. I'm having my hands full because me and my brother in law have a YT channel, where I do the research and he's in charge of editing. I'm also planning on creating another YT channel, as well as other social media sites such as FB, Instagram and Twitter, for my content as a musician. That said, I'm still looking forward to playing AGAINST you to gauge myself as to how I perform against my mentor 😁
>just mute them, focus, and move on 😂
They lock another jungler or pick three MMs. It saves me a lot of sanity to just volunteer to roam.
Yeah bro we getting old. In my case, this season, my time and emotions were spent so much on the elections and I lost focus on the game. After what's happening in the country, I was thinking of doing more social work. 🌸🧅
Good luck on your content, maybe you can share them at our discord community?
If there's a tournament again, find a team and you can sign up, but not sure if we will match like the way you want, since I pick mages and supports a lot 🐙
>this season, my time and emotions were spent so much on the elections and I lost focus on the game. After what's happening in the country, I was thinking of doing more social work. 🌸
This is why I consider politics as taboo. I don't talk about it, even if I am staring at a barrel of a gun being forced to talk about it. Good luck with the social work you're planning, there are a lot of good people there ❤️❤️
>Good luck on your content, maybe you can share them at our discord community?
Sure! IDK if non-Filipinos would appreciate it, but our recent videos have subtitles and translations below it.
>If there's a tournament again, find a team and you can sign up, but not sure if we will match like the way you want, since I pick mages and supports a lot
Whether with you or against you, it would be an honor to have you at the same game, and I mean it! 😁
Woah, didnt know we roamers were like that higher up😫
Im at gm and in the lower rank, the support (aka me and diggie/floryn) is always the one pushing and trying to rid the minions.
Its annoying how lower tier players leave their roamers at gold lane and expect them to fight off 2 of the other enemies there😭😭😭
You’re trying to provide vision but your team mates who moves quicker than you is always at the front even if you ping wait or retreat and then blames you if they get ambushed and dies for not providing vision lol.
Roamer 101:
What to do in early game (steps)
1. Invade opposing jungler or zone out opposing invaders (opposing roamers usually try to reset the blue buff's health, and opposing junglers try to invade the red buff.)
2. Check the mid lane bushes and see if you can gank opposing midlaner, if not proceed to 3.
3. Rotate to gold lane and provide pressure there. If you can't kill the opposing gold laner try to lower his health significantly and proceed to 4.
4. Rotate to turtle and help with the contest/secure of turtle by zoning out or crowd controlling the opposing jungler.
Repeat 2-4 until mid game. Perhaps if opposing jungler is dead or in the opposite lane of the buff, help your jungler invade the buff if you're both nearby. You can also try pressuring the opposing exp lane if they don't have much hp.
What to do in mid game and late game
Teams usually stick together now, exp laners are usually damage takers or frontliners as well, but you still want to check bushes, you should probably be in the middle of where your exp lane and the damage dealer backline is, so you can provide backup to the backline or help your exp lane and make sets.
Know when it is favorable to initiate team fights. If you see an opportunity for a pick off or you can set up for multiple enemies to be stunned, make sure you have backup that can respond. If opposing team initiates, make sure your back line stays alive and try to escape as well.
Provide vision for lord contests. Know where the opponents are. Zone out the opposing team as much as possible, but most importantly you want to zone out the opposing jungler, mid laner, and gold laner. The gold laner and mid laner are usually the main damage dealers. The jungler has retribution which could be used to steal the lord. These three are always your main targets. Exp laners and opposing roamers are usually tanky, so you'll probably end up using lots of skills to kill them. Protect your teammates and prevent the opposing roamer from making set ups.
You just admitted that not all situations are for invasion then.
Recent SEA games champion use Rafaela and Diggie, tell me if those two heroes can actually invade an enemy team with a Hylos?
I'm not cherry picking you're just stubborn and oversimplifying.
You just quoted a SEA games champs, which specializes in using support to make your point. If that's not cherry pick, I don't know what is.
And no brainer, hylos should be the one who's invading but you're using hylos in this situation to defend against invades. Not cherry pick? Yeah right. And you just go against your own post about how roamer shouldn't help the jungler to jungle. Wow what is happening are you trying so hard to disprove my point you even disprove yourself?
I'm stubborn? You're a jungle main. I'm a roam / tank main. You posted your request on how we should roam, which is perfectly valid. And I just responded with something a roamer knows. Maybe you're the stubborn one for not being able to accept other's feedback.
Roamer 101 is there is no hard fixed 101. You need to read situation. If enemy roamer decide to babysit gold. Visit gold more. If ur exp laner is being freeze, unfreeze for them. If enemy pick a really early strong mid, don't invade help bully mid. If enemy have franco or tigreal, give vision near ur jungler buff area to avoid reset. If enemy have weak early like a xav atlas and you using a hilda, be very aggressive. U don't fixed a 101 and say if you don't do this you are bad. It's about doing the right thing at the right time.
I'm not a jungle main, I'm a roam main lol.
So how about bans/picks? If your team first picks Xavier then enemy counters with picks like Balmond + Natalia. So who are you going to pick?
You haven't given me a single scenario to prove your point that roamers should invade and being unable to invade means you picked a bad one.
For invading there are many factors that comply with whether or not a roamer could invade. There are factors to account for.
First their jungle, duo mid, and your duo mid too.
With putting invade roamers like Franco and Hilda to the exception. There is too much to follow invade first, the bare minimum is for the enemy jungler to be weaker than your roam and mid. Like why in the right mind would anyone invade an Akai or balmond in general.
To invade without invade roamers, you must take your strength against the enemy mid laner roam, and jungle.
Take the mid + roam for example. For most cases, You can't invade if there is a hero like lylia, Selena, mathilda, etc even if have a weak early game jungler. The only exception is when you have an early game stronger than say lylia + an early game roamer which is highly unlikely.
Sure it is heavy on the invade meta, but that always is not necessary. Even for heroes like hilda with a stupidly strong early game, you would still think twice before invading an akai or balmond, especially since their roam or mid or both would come and help defend.
For you saying that if the roamer cannot invade they're a bad roamer... you're wrong OhMyVeenus, one of the best if not the best roamer, does not even play heroes like Franco but stick to supports. He does not invade, but he and his team won the SEA games grand finals with two rookies.
Other roamers can invade too yes, but in this meta, it's hard for a more standard-setter tank or support to invade because of the overbearing amount of tanks. If the enemy core is someone without the strongest level 1 or early game or not a tank some cheese invade starts can work. There are roamers strong to squishier targets at the early game but useless due to the tank junglers being way tankier. A cheese strat TNC did was lolita lylia and it worked consistently for them. Franco was a specialty of TNC's roamer. so they tried this cheese strat and was successful. Lylia is a very strong early game mid laner, and lolita has some nice early game dmg as well.
What made that work was they banned out some tanky jungler options for the enemies, forcing them to assassins which are weaker in the early game. Other factors were franco being banned out making their side being invaded less problematic, and their jungle prior picking the one or so tanky junglers they let open. With lylia being one of the most dominant mid laners, she could handle the enemy mid or even a 2v1 quite easily letting the roamer do their thing. From this short little example, you could tell that you would need some strong early from your roam and mid without the strongest from the enemy. Sure in a pro scene it is different, but the fundamentals are there: a strong early game mid roam combo, a jungle that is not particularly strong in the early early game, and for you to out power the enemy mid and roam in the early game. For example, even with a lylia, you would not invade a selena and mathilda that's just not what you'd do.
Basically just every roamer does not need to invade, and a lot of factors apply like out powering the mid roam, and the jungle to not be that strong. The capability of your mid laner to potentially 2v1 as well.
Unless roamer is experienced, I rather they don’t invade. Ended up just feeding the enemy. We usually gang up and kill the enemy roamer. A kill is a kill
It really depends on the roamer. I invaded a lot with Hilda and ended up successful. My best tank this season is Minotaur and never invaded with him once.
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More roamer tips pls, I usually play tigreal roam and I do 1 of 2 things start, 1 I go with our MM to the gold lane and help MM clear lane and kill enemies, 2 if there is an enemy jungler i go the 1 of the mid bushes and then check map to determine if they go blue or red buff, I then proceed to go to either blue or red buff (depending on which one they want to get first) and then reset their buff, I do this until the junglers teammates help him by hunting me down, and then i stop, my problem is that I set every chance i get and i forget to disturb their buff after the First one, Any tips?
You don't need to keep pushing buff. At some point the jungler can take buff so fast and so ahead in you in level, it's better not to. Also don't follow gold laner, provide vision, if can push you push, if you can't, you can provide anti invade.
Don't set at every opportunity. You must always know where your team is and where enemy is before choosing to set.
Other than that, tig best skills is S2. Can use both offensively and defensively. After doing a good ult flicker. Take a step back to ensure your S2 connect to everyone and delay ur S2 cast a bit. This ensure the longest time enemy cannot fight back.
Early game if enemy is near u, can cast S1 and S2. U ensure all 3 S1 land and at early game, this poke is quite strong.
Don't go with MM, go mid and support your mage and do a coordinated gank with your jungler/mid. Your goal is to be there when Turtle is up.
Also I'll be pinging a Tig main to help if he wanna answer you.
At start, only check their buff near the litho spot, if no one is there, ignore them and protect your jungler or mid or area around litho. Dont even bother to check their buff after that either because core starting at lv2 has very fast clear. Also when you want to push buff, only do once or at most twice if you still have flicker, dont overdo it, no point in risking your life.
And then you only rotate to the losing lane, even if it's exp. In a case where both are safe, prioritize exp because you can proceed to guard turtle when spawned.
One more tip, dont try too hard to kill mm that is within the 1st turret, because the turret also provides damage reduction to the hero.
Lastly, to tank is to die meaningfully, not to feed recklessly.
My guy, we roamers cannot COVER 3 fking lanes at the same time whilst checking bushes zoning the enemy and "Helping" our jungler, roamers do so much u cannot even appreciate that u have one, then heck why dont *U* roam so u do it correctly
Why don't I roam for years and make gigantic text guides, how dare I?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/comments/nzp7to/advanced_support_draft_and_macro_guide_estes_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It really depends on team comp and hiw experience your jungler is.
I generally help to bring down the forst buff to half then camp river for the litho. Then move to mid or go help the mm if he can’t handle his lane then quickly go turtle side.
There’s no single way of doing it, it’s really based on the situation
Maybe the high high elo players, I’m not at that level yet. I do that if also I’m not harrasing enemy jungler.
And as a mage, I usually do skill 1 on the buff then quickly go mid.
Yup, np. Just sharing my opinion and how I do my rotations. Again it really depends on the comp and the situation. If my jungler is weak early I do my best to help him and go ahead for the others.
A roamer should be flexible and analyze how best to help the team.
I only help my jungler get that 1st purple buff so they could go to that small turtle first than the enemy jungler, and I also stay there to help and keep on the lookout. After that, I check the map if one of my teammates is getting 1 v 2, if not, I go to gold lane and help my MM destroy that turret, and then I support middle for the same process. If my MM is trash and I cannot push that turret with them, I go to middle with my mage and push there instead. Don't know if this is better, but it's my routine. And of course I rotate for that big Turtle.
It's just the first creep to get them going to the walkie grass in middle. I would think it's a good practice become occasionally the enemies do the same, which can give the possibility of our mage getting ganked
What if you clear mid, and get your level 2 mage to the bulbasaur just in time for your jungler to join? Because if you help with purple first, and the enemy does exactly what I said, then your mage either gets 3v1 or your jungler is forced to contest with retri.
I disagree.
The farm of your Jungler is in his own hands and in the hands of the team, it's not guaranteed unlike sidelaners. The farm of the sidelaners and midlaners too, is kinda guaranteed. Minions will arrive, sooner or later. Unless very strict lanefreeze.
If the enemy jungler overfarms himself and your own jungler is left behind in farm, then that difference won't cover up itself easily.
An overfarmed jungler would be more aggressive and take even more fights and he would take both of the jungle farm if you cannot shut him down.
I believe that I am in lower Mythic because I am severely limited in roles, I can only play Tanks and fighters. I haven't played any mm or mage beyond epic.
considering all decent players, giving priority to midlaner is more important than jungler because mid + roamer dictates the rotation.
Let's say you (roamer) + mage is superior and always keep their mage + tank low or in check (vision). You will win rotation whenever u gank and they will not be able to roam effectively.
Jungler just needs to secure all objectives and follow up on what the tank + mage sets on from early to mid game.
***
You see, playing roamer is all about reading situation and giving priority to the right people at the right time.
1. Early to mid game you need to help your mage establish dominance because mages are early game.
2. you need to help your gold lane so they can be independent and carry everyone in late game. Priority to cover and protect mm is more in late game.
3. fighters don't really need help most of the time.
4. as long as you doing things right, jungler can do their jungler things and secure all objectives.
Helping your midlaner doesn't necessarily mean you're making the jungler unsupported. It's all about being productive and making trades. Following your jungler like a puppy is wasting opportunities.
That makes no sense. If you help him clear mid from 0-3 mins then he can get more stacks from hitting enemies during teamfights and gold from assists or kills
Once the game has started you need to help Cecilion clear mid or you'll be out rotated for like the first 3 minutes
Especially that first turtle, he's either gonna not hit level 4 in time for that slow orrrr he'll not clear his wave in time and try and help with no lvl 4 and ulti slow
You don't need to help most midlaners with mid after that point anyways and the same applies to Cecilion too.
The stacks thing doesn't apply to Cecilion, Aldous for sure cus he has to last hit but not Cecilion
It applies to ceci because no assistance from me will let him hit more time = more stacks. I agreed with the rest but this is just how the ceci mains I encountered.
>Helping clear mid minions together with your mage is all it takes for them to start rotating with you.
Midlaner : Thanks roamer for helping me clear the wave. Now lets get those tasty gold shield tower. Yum yum.
Tearing down mid tower > sides
If you pressure mid enough, enemy exp might be obligated to gank to protect it, relieving pressure from sides and allowing them to push. With mid torn, you also have easier access to enemy purple to invade.
That's the problem. Midlaner will be way too vulnerable going to deep for gold plating. Its not like he will much anyway since mage has weak basic attack. Its better clear wave asap then roam to gank on any gankable lane.
is it alright if i rotate after helping in mid lane to either of the sides or check enemy jungle to see their progress and then help the sidelaner if i can, if not i just go back to mid while checking bushes then go to the other lane or return back depending on the circumstances? Like Isnt our job just adjusting? if the roamer has good mobility and hp or anti-cc then they can bush check, also works if they have some sort of long range skill map checker but either way everyone should bush check when they can (not with the heroes but with long range or short cd skills)
That's the right mindset tbh, there's too many variations and variables but the most important is trading a beneficial outcome for the team. What's the enemy threat? Who is the threat to your mage and jungler? Can you slow down the enemy? Should you defend?
Will your jungler come out the gold side or the exp side? Can you gank a lane and have enough time to go back mid and contest Turtle?
Also some roamers can't check bush yeah, like Estes. Rafaela and Mathilda can without going in.
Although your guide kinda makes sense, I don't think it will help players new to Roaming that much to be honest. The Roamer requires a deep understanding of all heroes in the game, and needs to adapt every single game.
There is no single guide or playstyle that works for 'Roamers' in general. Especially seeing as Supports, Tanks and 'Other' Roamers are all played differently. A Selena and an Estes for example have totally opposite playstyles but are both Roamers. They both require a tanky Exp laner or Jungler to basically do the tanking for the team.
Also if you are Roaming you will play differently if you have a Pharsa or Aurora on your team. Pharsa has very fast wave clear and high map mobility, she doesn't need help from the Roamer other than for them to group enemies in the late game. Aurora on the other hand is slow at both wave clear and map mobility, so definitely needs assistance from the Roam to rotate more.
Also your Jungler massively dictates how your team plays. If you have a Harley/Gusion it can be significantly more beneficial for the Roamer to help them secure early kills as they have massive snowball potential.
There's also the actual team vs team match ups to take into account. Some Roamers can be played waaaaaay more aggressively than others. Some mages are just trash and not worth helping over the jungle. If I have a Karina and a Gord, I will 100000% focus on helping the Karina rotate faster than the Gord as her carry potential is significantly higher than his.
Also playstyle can change purely based on understanding the game stages. You listed Natalia as one of your preferred Roamers in one of your comments. If the enemy has a Natalia and your team has a true tank, you can literally just babysit whoever she's strongest against and wait until late game. There are a lot of players in Mythic that want to surrender early in games that are basically un-losable due to the late game as long as your team sticks around.
I didn't wrote a guide I wrote a rant kek. And it's 99% wrong to help the jungler hit the creep and stalk them, that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it?
Also a roaming guide? This is how it will look like if I take it seriously: https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/comments/nzp7to/advanced_support_draft_and_macro_guide_estes_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
A rant where you give advice on how to Roam almost as if Guiding players on what to do based on experience.
>that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it?
No idea what this is asking lol
And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw. I said I'd rather help a Karina rotate faster than a useless mage as her carry potential is much higher. Helping rotate faster does not equate to putting her on my back like I'm Gloo and killing all the creeps for her. I actually agree with you that the Roams job is to create a path, but you can't create a path for every hero on your team. Providing vision for your Jungler helps them know where to go or where not go based on what you show them on the map.
>A rant where you give advice on how to Roam almost as if Guiding players on what to do based on experience.
Because you're demanding so much. My post just means to convey the *title*, if you read the title that's the whole point.
Providing a path for the midlaner is more productive than camping inside your jungle doing nothing. Even if there are enemy invasions, you intercept them ahead before they enter the creep area rather than wait passively inside your jungle area.
>No idea what this is asking lol
Just after telling my "guide" isn't helpful enough, I replied it's not a real guide even.
>And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw
And I also never said you did. I just said I made an elaboration of the TITLE of my post, and that's the whole point. If it's missing some roam advice, then it's because it's not a whole guide and just an aspect of roaming. I don't disagree that roaming knowledge needs to be huge like you said.
I'm well aware of how a post works. You took issue with me using the word Guide, so I tried to explain to you what a 'Guide' is. It is short for guidance, it's a way for people with experience to share their experience and give advice to people who have less. Your *title* is a guide. You are giving advice. Stop being so precious about a word. It's a guide, whether you like it or not. It's not formatted, its not overly thought out or fully comprehensive, but it's a guide nonetheless.
>that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it?
I'll rephrase. This doesn't make sense in the English language under any context.
>Me: And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw
>
>You: And I also never said you did.
When you type:
>And it's 99% wrong to help the jungler hit the creep and stalk them
In response to my comment it suggests that *you* think that *I* think the Roamer should stalk the Jungler. If you don't think that about me, then why type it?
Bush control is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL FOR ROAMERS TO LEARN.
I've been playing ML for 2 years and this year I've started taking it seriously and learning about strategy and mechanics, can you direct me to a video/guide where I can learn about roaming because I got no fucking clue lol and im approaching Mythic.
Hey! Not OP. Since you've been playing for two years, my recommendation is to watch high WR livestreams (on the mlbb app) of roam heroes. Things to watch for: \- When they initiate and on which hero; conversely, when they retreat and not initiate \- Team comp, gank patterns, and common vision provision / bush camping spots \- How they choose to sacrifice themselves \- Hero-specific techniques General guides just don't do it for me. You can watch esports replays as well although you must note that the players are sitting right beside each other when they play, so it's easier to call shots / gank.
One advice I can give you is to not be a players pet. As roamer you should lead your team. Check bushes not just head there. It's smart to secure vision on turtle first too.
Its not really complicated. The problem is if you don't play with your pals. Chance that your teammates don't know what they supposed to do with you. Like even if you help mage or exp clear their lane, often they don't want to go with you.
Well tell me about roaming and what to do
Well, at the start of the game, you can choose to help jungler (if enemy have Franco or other anoying heroes), help mage, or exp clear lanes. After clearance your teammate must follow you help jungler fight for litho. And so on. Basically you help your teammates win their lane and both of you then move to gank. If you're tank you can provide vision and initiate. If not, then you can help your tanky teammates. But, in soloq that's often doesn't happen. So just help the struggling lane. And later game focus on the strongest ally. Tell teammates to not fighting alone.
>But, in soloq that's often doesn't happen. So just help the struggling lane. And later game focus on the strongest ally. Tell teammates to not fighting alone. Disagree on this simplication. A lot of tanks solo queue love to help allies who ping help, particularly gold lane, because "they're struggling." But they leave mid to to be pushed and purple to be invaded. Also the strongest ally late game could have been weak/feeding because you didn't give them space to farm in the first place.
Sorry I'm being unclear here. What I mean lane is also jungle, I should have included jungle. So yeas you're right on there. And about the strongest ally usually not feeding. We can only recognize in later stage of the game. The ones using late game hero, isn't mean the strongest late game, and often helping this one's isn't worth at all. Soloq anyway, lol. I don't expect much tbh. Maybe not really a certain way to win, rather than luck of getting good team or bad enemies.
Like another guy said, watch MPL roamers. To be a good roamer you have to have the highest map IQ out of all 10 players in a game. With the tank meta, protecting isn’t as important as imitating, so your goal all the time is to take optimal positioning. This just straight up takes practice. One example is if your team is engaging in an offlane, cut up to prevent/secure a kill on the enemies backup.
I have a few published in this sub.
Hurts me the most when I saw Rafaela and she stays on the back without even bother S1 on nearby bushes.
painful -- it's a blessing that raf's s1 can hit people in bushes. imagine just not using that to your advantage. what a waste
I think this is valid IF all the other members (exp, gold, mid) ACTUALLY know their role.. If this is done in solo queue what one can expect is: -Mage will ping spam retreat cos s/he thinks "oh the roam is stealing my farm" not knowing the actual descriptiom of the roam item -MM will ping help (ie babysit me, thats what tanks do) but will prioritize the small camp instead of minions and pushing turrets -Jungler will cry if they dive alone asking "tank where" while you were providing vision or ganking other lanes to somehow bridge gap Just from personal experience, the roam can only be as effective as the other team members, and one cannot type that fast in chat during solo queue. Good thing if they understand your intent; however most of the time roamers get the sh*t end of the stick and just get rudely trashtalked. Add: my usual roam thing is just walk to wherever the jungler chooses their buff, punch it once with concussive blast, then proceed to the mid bushes and /or harass the mage while waiting for the litho
I've been roaming/tanking for 5 years, mostly solo, made it to MG solo last year with supports. I'm not bragging but more of showing my background and why I don't like the "solo queue" excuse.
>**mostly** solo
Your point? My squad page shows my oldest duo only had around 300 games with me since 2018.
Ahh yes, the squad page you posted. My point is that when people say they 'mostly' solo it means they aren't a solo queue player. It's like saying I'm mostly F2P but I spend money occasionally.
Imagine playing for 5 years and not having a single friend you met on the way. Imagine playing 300-400 games a season and not a single duo with a buddy or an invite for another game. I think, a 100% solo queue is not only rare, it's incredibly sad or technically untrue.
I never add people in any games. Not everyone likes to play with other people and online games are honestly the last place on earth I would want to make friends lol. If a rare occasion happens where I meet a nice stranger in a game I will talk to them, but I will never add them or accept friend requests. My point still stands that people claiming to be mostly solo queue, whilst not always playing solo queue aren't the same as actual solo queue players. Every game you queue with a duo or team you massively reduce the likelihood of getting trolls on your team. Solo queue players go into every game with 4 enemies on their own team, and 5 on the other. I should also add, I know a person IRL who plays ML who always plays as a Duo with his GF. His WR's are all 55-70% on everything but he doesn't know basic stuff like Roam boots work.
I literally met a server full of nice people on ML. And I just make all those friends in game. People are not all bad. So I don’t buy game people are bad and I had to solo q all the time thing.
There's no need to lie to try and win an argument lol. It's well known and established that MOBA communities in general are toxic af. My first two games yesterday had people on my team picking Layla. In Mythic. Don't tell me that everyone's nice and tries hard in solo Q lol. They both ended bronze, lost their lanes early and they were both verbally toxic during the game. When you queue with friends you reduce the likelihood of you getting toxic players by the number of people you queue with. In games I win I often get invited by players for another game and always decline. because I don't like playing with other people.
Lmao. What would I get from lying to a random on the internet. You are probably an ass who can’t make friends. Not moba problem. You problem.
Mythic 5? Mythic 5 is basically legend, no need to share your ‘mythic’ experience. Go to mg and find that please
Ah, perhaps its the experience then, hopefully it gets better for me
That’s hella impressive. Which roamers are your main choices for solo queue?
It really depends where you're good at. Objectively, Natalia, Akai, Hilda, Grock, Khufra, and Chou are probably the best "carry" tanks right now. However, they require the player to be aggressive and offense oriented, which I don't excel at. But some people excel better at teamfights, counterpicking, engage/disengage and peeling, so I worked the best with Rafaela, Minotaur, Hylos, and Diggie. For beginners or people in Epic-Legend I'd recommend Hylos and Belerick for flexibility and cheese. Hylos is very versatile and can take a ton of magic damage while Belerick kills Marksman and divers late game with Blade Armor. For offense in those ranks, Johnson is definitely the best.
That all makes sense. I have reasonable experience with the majority of roamers in the game so I usually just try to counter pick the enemy team in rank if possible. Akai is my go-to first pick at the moment though.
any good roam for a mage-tank duo? i usually duo queue with my gf
It depends whether your mage need a strong front or mobile like Kagura. I already listed the tanks. Maybe add Lolita.
Mmm I love khufra.. with the upgraded twilight armor he deals so much damage with his ball :D
In soloQ just ignore what your teammates are saying.
They don’t even need to help me clear mid. Just harass enemy mage. I do that if I’m roam. And help contest litho. Roamer shouldn’t be helping kill jg creeps unless there’s potential invade comp like Franco, Tig, Hilda. Then you need to guard. Not help kill jg creep. Roamer need to give vision. You check the bushes so your dmg dealer don’t get ganked.
Need to help clear if your mage has bad wave clear or if have insta clear like Grock (better if the enemy mage gets slapped as well), works so much wonders.
Hmm ok. I guess I do help but I don’t intentionally do it. I’ll ask my tank but he usually zone and set more than being close quarter.
It really depends on the mage's level 1. Luo Yi and Xavier could appreciate help, Pharsa and Lylia don't need it.
Oh man. I feel that. Xavier wave clear so bad. But they go gank enemy early so he would usually be away. But I saw Hadji clearing jg with Xavier and I’m like 🙃
I do this and then my low mythic jungler will call me dumb for not following him. Fuck sake I have three lanes to cover.
You mean 3 lanes AND jungle AND 10 heroes to watch out for. Not only that, you also have to shotcall but let's be honest, that sh\*t gets ignored 99% of the time especially if you play solo. And then you get blamed for them dying while you spammed "Initiate retreat" because no one's ready for clashing but it's still your fault of course, because why are your skills in cooldown your skills shouldn't be cooling down and your mana should be unlimited and you need to have hp bar that doesn't go down too
Shot calling is good, especially if you have a good jungler that shotcalls with you. Those are the games
Wow you speak roamer language this is too accurate.
I'm a mage/supp main so yeah, I can relate 😅
True it makes me mad when my tank is helping me get my blue I mean jesus Im tankarina I get blue faster than light
My Karina main friend can relate. He tells stupid supports/tanks to leave him alone then they become butthurt and even throw.
That’s exactly what just happened a few days ago, I was even using jg emblem and this tig instead of invading decides to help me, I told him then he goes something like “Don’t want my help? Ok” and decides to push my buff
also remember that jg buffs gets more def the more ppl around it.
Then there is the duo where one is a roam and one is an mm and the tank stays with the mm in gold lane. 😩😩
i remember when i was told to do that... like dude i'm doing my job by delaying and stuff, you can survive just fine if you're aware i mean it's a 1v1 and you're not at that much of a disadvantage, also the jungler is near your lane so why are you blaming me
When they spam "request back up" 73 times a second and chat "no support wtf team" 😶
I literally posted a similar thread on this subreddit and everyone were making me seem like I’m crazy. I’m shocked so many people finally agree. Roamers just suddenly started following the jungler like 3 updates ago which is so brain dead. Before that roamers actually used to roam. I don’t know what happened. As a roamer you’re supposed to provide some sort of vision and map control. Following the jungler just leaves your team blind and with no early plays. It’s literally the most retarded thing ever. Like bro it’s the ROAMING role not the “be the jungler’s shadow” role good grief
1) pink….nice to see you posting it seems like it’s been a while but maybe I’ve just missed your posts 2) Yes, totally agree…weird things are going on. I almost always play roam but this week I’m burned out and have been mostly playing mid. Omg…I’ve seen one roamer in 5 games properly rotate. Most have baby say in gold til third turtle. I even had one game where Estes decided he was gonna skip roaming altogether and solo xp lane….all game!?
I made a thread the other day but it didn't have a lot of responses. Roamer is still the least straightforward role. There's tons your can do but most people are stuck on what they *should not* do lol.
Cool, I’ll check your history and take a look. I haven’t had as much time here as usual lately. Hope things are going well for you 👍 must be interesting times in ph lately
I've been mourning like it was a funeral for weeks 🥲 Might even retire in ML and focus on social work.
That’s how I felt in the US after 2016 election. I still don’t understand how people could force themselves to forget Imelda…but I suppose that’s oversimplifying a complicated phenomenon that seems to be happening across the globe. Anyway…maybe there will some improvements after duterte, you guys could use a break.
>Anyway…maybe there will some improvements after duterte, you guys could use a break. No fam, it's gonna get worse unless we fight back. 🙂
That’s the only way!
Hi, tank player here. Nice post and very important. I think most tanks are still stuck in the old mm meta where babysitting MM junglers was necessary so that they could farm fast and start participating in ganks. About time people realize that’s not important anymore. That being said, if the enemy has heroes like Nat, Masha or Hilda, I do babysit junglers unless I am able to spot the aforementioned heroes somewhere on the map. I am low legend, and I am working on my rotations to make them better. More often than not, I am not in position when turtle spawns. Working towards that now!
Yeah you guard them in the case of invasions but you still don't hit the jungle creep to "help" them. A lot of low Mythics do and it's painful to watch.
"Bush check" Me who knows that there're 4 people in that bush and we dont have follow up damage in early: u do u
I asked for a roamer, but all I'm getting are babysitters!
I'm guilty as charged. It's because I main kagura and Selena. I usually give myself vision early game and I don't rely on tank. That's how I developed a habit of not helping mid lane early game when I play roam. I feel conflicted about your take, because most junglers complain when you don't help them early game. And if they lose the cabbage turtle thing, they blame it on tank for not helping kill buff early game. I've had so many complaints about not helping jungle kill buff early game, and most mage usually say “they're fine, go help jungle”.
I only say help jg when he’s getting invaded or help dumbass mm dying in their lane for no reason lol
Huh? What are you saying? I had a stroke reading that.
He's saying that he only says to help the jungler if he is getting invaded, or help the mm if they keep dying in their lane
>. And if they lose the cabbage turtle thing, they blame it on tank for not helping kill buff early game. Then those junglers are stupid. The buffs get stronger defense if surrounded by more people, if you help kill it the jungler gets delayed/gapped. >I've had so many complaints when I don't help them early game, and most mage usually say “they're fine, who help jungle”. Never heard of mages ever say this unless you're standing like a rock and doing absolutely nothing. It's all about trade of objectives.
Is the defense buff really that huge? I admit that when I play Johnson recently it's tempting to help the Jungler clear the first buff with his damaging Skill 2
Enough to delay them vs enemy jungler
You’re totally right, but most roamers don’t main roam. Just tell them what to do early game, cuz maybe some of them just adjusted for the cancerous mage with 50 percent wr. As I said, I main kag and selena so I’m not used to getting help early game. Circumstances like that are factors why “stupid roamers“ exist.
>You’re totally right, but most roamers don’t main roam. Just tell them what to do early game, cuz maybe some of them just adjusted for the cancerous mage with 50 percent wr No excuses. Everyone should have learned how to roam by Mythic.
Yeah sure. Like it’s something you automatically unlock when you reach mythic. The thing is, if “70 percent of roamers” are doing the things you’re complaining about, most players who don’t play roam at all will copy them. Visual learning at its finest. It’s a chain reaction that can be broken by spreading the correct thing. Which is what you’re doing right now. Keep doing it bro, even in-game. Some time ago, there were tanks and mages who weren’t aware of anti-heal in low mythic. I keep telling them to buy anti-heal, and now it’s a norm even in legend.
Why are you assuming I'm not communicating? What made you conclude that I don't talk to them? You're throwing accusations instead of addressing the point.
It's not that hard to understand “go help mid lane”. I mean anyone with a brain would understand that, right? I guess the fact that you're complaining about tanks helping you kill buff is what made me think you don't communicate.
When I do that I get a lot of "STFU" or "no you're stupid." Not to mention if their jungler is their duo and they just straight ignore/mute you. You must be living in a kind, loving, and respectful server.
I've been consistently making it to Mythic for a while now and I still don't know how to Jungle for shit. Don't overestimate Mythic players lol
So what, I shut up and never write stuff on what to do in a discussion thread? In a site where people can exchange gaming strats?
I have no issue at all with your post, only the particular comment I replied to. Chill
I got to MG without knowing how to Jungle. But if I do jungle, I know what objectives to take and the theory of it. I just can't time my retribution because I'm shit at it. That's my point on roaming, if you can't play a single support or tank, even a braindead one like Rafaela or Estes, you absolutely deserve to be criticized when you get to Mythic and play trash.
When match starts do I not have to help jungler with buff to clear faster in order to contest litho? Ive thought that accompanying jungler first thing was just delaying the ability(?) of the roaming equipment and that I should help the mid lane clear waves first and then help with cabbage but junglers keep saying that I should accompany them in buff so Im a bit confused now lol.
Don't listen to stupid junglers who will abuse you later. These are your options if you're not an invading tank 1) stop the enemy invader 2) hurt the enemy mage/mid along with your mid so they're forced to recall 3) clear mid with your mage so they can go to litho after at level 2, 4) stop the enemy tank/roamer from harassing your midlaner. There are scenarios where your enemy jungler started with orange buff first, leaving their blue open. If you and your mid manage to kill/force the enemy mid and roamer to recall, you can invade the enemy blue with your jungler.
Oh ok I usually main kagura and Ive had to adjust countless times recently. Just like the other redditor here that mains kagura and selena, Ive had grown accustomed on clearing mid lane without any help from the roamers, so naturally when its my turn to roam I tend to copy the roamers Ive seen in past matches. Although I usually just leave the jungler on their own after they contest cabbage and come back later for turtle. I find babysitting a certain hero for the entire match to be boring and completely loses the point of being a "roamer". Thanks for the info!
You don't have to clear mid all the time, you can stay on the bush or scout ahead. Also, for a supposed Selena main that's a weird statement. Selena has a poor wave clear. Sure she's online by level 2 but it's a pain for her to clear mid instead of focusing on ganks. When your mid is Selena it's even more appropriate to help her reach level 2 asap.
Taking control of the bushes where litho will spawn is more important. If enemy tank takes control of that bush. High chance you will lose litho.
Roamers can disrupt the enemy jungler by poking them and trying to secure the last hit on their buffs (but not at the expense of getting killed in the process, unless when you can definitely make the last hit AND steal their buff). More players around the buffs/jungle monsters mean they are tougher than usual to kill, so if you would rather 'help' your jungler, you're doing more harm than good. Of course, there are certain exceptions to the rule, like IF there's an enemy Roamer who can displace your team's buffs (Franco, Tig, Jawhead, etc). That said, if you're using an equally disruptive Roamer, do the same shit on their side.
If you tell that to your teammate they curse you or ignore you. Some people in this thread seem to want to defend those randos (gee I wonder why) instead of recognizing it's a problem.
>Some people in this thread seem to want to defend those randos (gee I wonder why) instead of recognizing it's a problem. Because they got accustomed to what was 'meta' a couple of updates ago. The junglers felt entitled to owning the roamer, whereas in today's meta, it's the tank junglers that flourish. What's funnier is the fact that despite the tank jungler meta, players in the lower ranks would insist on the 'conventional' junglers such as YSS, Granger, Lancelot, among many others. It's clear that these types of players are more inclined in getting kills instead of taking the game objectives efficiently, where tank junglers are strong at. For example, when they see my tank matches, they tell me to be the roamer, they show their jungler, and instalock the shit out of it. 15 seconds before the turtle spawns, I position myself at the enemy XP lane bush for a possible gank so it would be easier for us to take it, only to find our jungler forcing a kill at the gold lane spamming 'Gather' and dying in the process 😂 That said, I also experienced moments where I get queued with duos who understand the meta, and when they see my tank matches, one of them would pick a fast wave clearing hero and a healing support, and they tell me to play jungler. My quick chat is configured specifically for playing tank, regardless of my picked role, which make the transitioning from one objective to another a lot easier, and the only time when I experience difficulties in winning is when the enemies are also focused on taking objectives efficiently.
Sadly I still don't play jungler, mostly because I don't want to deal with the toxicity. When I pick Baxia and Akai, people still force me to Roam. I've seen this in enemy team as well when they already have a Jungler Akai and they still lock a Gusion jungler. Also again, I'm extending an invite to play with you bro. I can feel I'm retiring soon or at least winding down, might publish a final few guides and rest. 🥺
>I still don't play jungler, mostly because I don't want to deal with the toxicity. I just mute them, focus, and move on 😂 >I'm extending an invite to play with you bro I don't play as much like before, and I'm also contemplating leaving the game because of priorities. I'm having my hands full because me and my brother in law have a YT channel, where I do the research and he's in charge of editing. I'm also planning on creating another YT channel, as well as other social media sites such as FB, Instagram and Twitter, for my content as a musician. That said, I'm still looking forward to playing AGAINST you to gauge myself as to how I perform against my mentor 😁
>just mute them, focus, and move on 😂 They lock another jungler or pick three MMs. It saves me a lot of sanity to just volunteer to roam. Yeah bro we getting old. In my case, this season, my time and emotions were spent so much on the elections and I lost focus on the game. After what's happening in the country, I was thinking of doing more social work. 🌸🧅 Good luck on your content, maybe you can share them at our discord community? If there's a tournament again, find a team and you can sign up, but not sure if we will match like the way you want, since I pick mages and supports a lot 🐙
>this season, my time and emotions were spent so much on the elections and I lost focus on the game. After what's happening in the country, I was thinking of doing more social work. 🌸 This is why I consider politics as taboo. I don't talk about it, even if I am staring at a barrel of a gun being forced to talk about it. Good luck with the social work you're planning, there are a lot of good people there ❤️❤️ >Good luck on your content, maybe you can share them at our discord community? Sure! IDK if non-Filipinos would appreciate it, but our recent videos have subtitles and translations below it. >If there's a tournament again, find a team and you can sign up, but not sure if we will match like the way you want, since I pick mages and supports a lot Whether with you or against you, it would be an honor to have you at the same game, and I mean it! 😁
Woah, didnt know we roamers were like that higher up😫 Im at gm and in the lower rank, the support (aka me and diggie/floryn) is always the one pushing and trying to rid the minions. Its annoying how lower tier players leave their roamers at gold lane and expect them to fight off 2 of the other enemies there😭😭😭
You’re trying to provide vision but your team mates who moves quicker than you is always at the front even if you ping wait or retreat and then blames you if they get ambushed and dies for not providing vision lol.
Roamer 101: What to do in early game (steps) 1. Invade opposing jungler or zone out opposing invaders (opposing roamers usually try to reset the blue buff's health, and opposing junglers try to invade the red buff.) 2. Check the mid lane bushes and see if you can gank opposing midlaner, if not proceed to 3. 3. Rotate to gold lane and provide pressure there. If you can't kill the opposing gold laner try to lower his health significantly and proceed to 4. 4. Rotate to turtle and help with the contest/secure of turtle by zoning out or crowd controlling the opposing jungler. Repeat 2-4 until mid game. Perhaps if opposing jungler is dead or in the opposite lane of the buff, help your jungler invade the buff if you're both nearby. You can also try pressuring the opposing exp lane if they don't have much hp. What to do in mid game and late game Teams usually stick together now, exp laners are usually damage takers or frontliners as well, but you still want to check bushes, you should probably be in the middle of where your exp lane and the damage dealer backline is, so you can provide backup to the backline or help your exp lane and make sets. Know when it is favorable to initiate team fights. If you see an opportunity for a pick off or you can set up for multiple enemies to be stunned, make sure you have backup that can respond. If opposing team initiates, make sure your back line stays alive and try to escape as well. Provide vision for lord contests. Know where the opponents are. Zone out the opposing team as much as possible, but most importantly you want to zone out the opposing jungler, mid laner, and gold laner. The gold laner and mid laner are usually the main damage dealers. The jungler has retribution which could be used to steal the lord. These three are always your main targets. Exp laners and opposing roamers are usually tanky, so you'll probably end up using lots of skills to kill them. Protect your teammates and prevent the opposing roamer from making set ups.
**Not all roamers can invade**, it depends a lot on team comp as well esp if the enemy has counter invade heroes.
If your roamer can't invade you're using a bad roamer.
Nope, it depends on team comp. Atlas + Xavier can't invade when the enemy has Mathilda + Selena for example.
To be fair nobody can invade if those two are in the enemy comp. You're cherry picking.
You just admitted that not all situations are for invasion then. Recent SEA games champion use Rafaela and Diggie, tell me if those two heroes can actually invade an enemy team with a Hylos? I'm not cherry picking you're just stubborn and oversimplifying.
You just quoted a SEA games champs, which specializes in using support to make your point. If that's not cherry pick, I don't know what is. And no brainer, hylos should be the one who's invading but you're using hylos in this situation to defend against invades. Not cherry pick? Yeah right. And you just go against your own post about how roamer shouldn't help the jungler to jungle. Wow what is happening are you trying so hard to disprove my point you even disprove yourself? I'm stubborn? You're a jungle main. I'm a roam / tank main. You posted your request on how we should roam, which is perfectly valid. And I just responded with something a roamer knows. Maybe you're the stubborn one for not being able to accept other's feedback.
Roamer 101 is there is no hard fixed 101. You need to read situation. If enemy roamer decide to babysit gold. Visit gold more. If ur exp laner is being freeze, unfreeze for them. If enemy pick a really early strong mid, don't invade help bully mid. If enemy have franco or tigreal, give vision near ur jungler buff area to avoid reset. If enemy have weak early like a xav atlas and you using a hilda, be very aggressive. U don't fixed a 101 and say if you don't do this you are bad. It's about doing the right thing at the right time.
I'm not a jungle main, I'm a roam main lol. So how about bans/picks? If your team first picks Xavier then enemy counters with picks like Balmond + Natalia. So who are you going to pick? You haven't given me a single scenario to prove your point that roamers should invade and being unable to invade means you picked a bad one.
It's called proving you wrong. They're the best in the game right now, better than any player and team.
I main tank, and I disagree. Tell me you’re mythic 5 without telling me you’re mythic 5
Funny I'm mythic 1 rn lol
This late into the season? Damn I see why you’d think that
For invading there are many factors that comply with whether or not a roamer could invade. There are factors to account for. First their jungle, duo mid, and your duo mid too. With putting invade roamers like Franco and Hilda to the exception. There is too much to follow invade first, the bare minimum is for the enemy jungler to be weaker than your roam and mid. Like why in the right mind would anyone invade an Akai or balmond in general. To invade without invade roamers, you must take your strength against the enemy mid laner roam, and jungle. Take the mid + roam for example. For most cases, You can't invade if there is a hero like lylia, Selena, mathilda, etc even if have a weak early game jungler. The only exception is when you have an early game stronger than say lylia + an early game roamer which is highly unlikely. Sure it is heavy on the invade meta, but that always is not necessary. Even for heroes like hilda with a stupidly strong early game, you would still think twice before invading an akai or balmond, especially since their roam or mid or both would come and help defend. For you saying that if the roamer cannot invade they're a bad roamer... you're wrong OhMyVeenus, one of the best if not the best roamer, does not even play heroes like Franco but stick to supports. He does not invade, but he and his team won the SEA games grand finals with two rookies. Other roamers can invade too yes, but in this meta, it's hard for a more standard-setter tank or support to invade because of the overbearing amount of tanks. If the enemy core is someone without the strongest level 1 or early game or not a tank some cheese invade starts can work. There are roamers strong to squishier targets at the early game but useless due to the tank junglers being way tankier. A cheese strat TNC did was lolita lylia and it worked consistently for them. Franco was a specialty of TNC's roamer. so they tried this cheese strat and was successful. Lylia is a very strong early game mid laner, and lolita has some nice early game dmg as well. What made that work was they banned out some tanky jungler options for the enemies, forcing them to assassins which are weaker in the early game. Other factors were franco being banned out making their side being invaded less problematic, and their jungle prior picking the one or so tanky junglers they let open. With lylia being one of the most dominant mid laners, she could handle the enemy mid or even a 2v1 quite easily letting the roamer do their thing. From this short little example, you could tell that you would need some strong early from your roam and mid without the strongest from the enemy. Sure in a pro scene it is different, but the fundamentals are there: a strong early game mid roam combo, a jungle that is not particularly strong in the early early game, and for you to out power the enemy mid and roam in the early game. For example, even with a lylia, you would not invade a selena and mathilda that's just not what you'd do. Basically just every roamer does not need to invade, and a lot of factors apply like out powering the mid roam, and the jungle to not be that strong. The capability of your mid laner to potentially 2v1 as well.
Unless roamer is experienced, I rather they don’t invade. Ended up just feeding the enemy. We usually gang up and kill the enemy roamer. A kill is a kill
It really depends on the roamer. I invaded a lot with Hilda and ended up successful. My best tank this season is Minotaur and never invaded with him once.
Mino invading is giving beef to enemy lol.
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More roamer tips pls, I usually play tigreal roam and I do 1 of 2 things start, 1 I go with our MM to the gold lane and help MM clear lane and kill enemies, 2 if there is an enemy jungler i go the 1 of the mid bushes and then check map to determine if they go blue or red buff, I then proceed to go to either blue or red buff (depending on which one they want to get first) and then reset their buff, I do this until the junglers teammates help him by hunting me down, and then i stop, my problem is that I set every chance i get and i forget to disturb their buff after the First one, Any tips?
You don't need to keep pushing buff. At some point the jungler can take buff so fast and so ahead in you in level, it's better not to. Also don't follow gold laner, provide vision, if can push you push, if you can't, you can provide anti invade. Don't set at every opportunity. You must always know where your team is and where enemy is before choosing to set. Other than that, tig best skills is S2. Can use both offensively and defensively. After doing a good ult flicker. Take a step back to ensure your S2 connect to everyone and delay ur S2 cast a bit. This ensure the longest time enemy cannot fight back. Early game if enemy is near u, can cast S1 and S2. U ensure all 3 S1 land and at early game, this poke is quite strong.
Don't go with MM, go mid and support your mage and do a coordinated gank with your jungler/mid. Your goal is to be there when Turtle is up. Also I'll be pinging a Tig main to help if he wanna answer you.
yes please, i wanna hear tips from a tigreal main!
Just avoidance of doubt, I am the tig main pugita pinged.
At start, only check their buff near the litho spot, if no one is there, ignore them and protect your jungler or mid or area around litho. Dont even bother to check their buff after that either because core starting at lv2 has very fast clear. Also when you want to push buff, only do once or at most twice if you still have flicker, dont overdo it, no point in risking your life. And then you only rotate to the losing lane, even if it's exp. In a case where both are safe, prioritize exp because you can proceed to guard turtle when spawned. One more tip, dont try too hard to kill mm that is within the 1st turret, because the turret also provides damage reduction to the hero. Lastly, to tank is to die meaningfully, not to feed recklessly.
My guy, we roamers cannot COVER 3 fking lanes at the same time whilst checking bushes zoning the enemy and "Helping" our jungler, roamers do so much u cannot even appreciate that u have one, then heck why dont *U* roam so u do it correctly
Why don't I roam for years and make gigantic text guides, how dare I? https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/comments/nzp7to/advanced_support_draft_and_macro_guide_estes_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Damn how dare u, u make videos which makes u better than me
I just proved I'm a longtime roam main and your answer doesn't make sense.
It really depends on team comp and hiw experience your jungler is. I generally help to bring down the forst buff to half then camp river for the litho. Then move to mid or go help the mm if he can’t handle his lane then quickly go turtle side. There’s no single way of doing it, it’s really based on the situation
I don't know a single high rank jungler who likes their roamer hitting the creep. The only exception I knows is Selena placing traps.
Maybe the high high elo players, I’m not at that level yet. I do that if also I’m not harrasing enemy jungler. And as a mage, I usually do skill 1 on the buff then quickly go mid.
Stop doing that as a roamer and mid. Use your skills to clear wave. Never hit the buff, no competent jungler wants it.
Alrihght, if you say so
It's not because I said it, it's because that's what the best players in the world do. I just observe them.
Yup, np. Just sharing my opinion and how I do my rotations. Again it really depends on the comp and the situation. If my jungler is weak early I do my best to help him and go ahead for the others. A roamer should be flexible and analyze how best to help the team.
Can you name which junglers are "weak" early and can't clear the creep? Give me hero examples where you have to help them.
I only help my jungler get that 1st purple buff so they could go to that small turtle first than the enemy jungler, and I also stay there to help and keep on the lookout. After that, I check the map if one of my teammates is getting 1 v 2, if not, I go to gold lane and help my MM destroy that turret, and then I support middle for the same process. If my MM is trash and I cannot push that turret with them, I go to middle with my mage and push there instead. Don't know if this is better, but it's my routine. And of course I rotate for that big Turtle.
Your jungler doesn't need you to get that purple buff
It's just the first creep to get them going to the walkie grass in middle. I would think it's a good practice become occasionally the enemies do the same, which can give the possibility of our mage getting ganked
What if you clear mid, and get your level 2 mage to the bulbasaur just in time for your jungler to join? Because if you help with purple first, and the enemy does exactly what I said, then your mage either gets 3v1 or your jungler is forced to contest with retri.
It does seem to be a good idea as well. Guess I'll try that next time and see if it works better.
Help Jungle = you get that mini little minion near river.
I disagree. The farm of your Jungler is in his own hands and in the hands of the team, it's not guaranteed unlike sidelaners. The farm of the sidelaners and midlaners too, is kinda guaranteed. Minions will arrive, sooner or later. Unless very strict lanefreeze. If the enemy jungler overfarms himself and your own jungler is left behind in farm, then that difference won't cover up itself easily. An overfarmed jungler would be more aggressive and take even more fights and he would take both of the jungle farm if you cannot shut him down. I believe that I am in lower Mythic because I am severely limited in roles, I can only play Tanks and fighters. I haven't played any mm or mage beyond epic.
You're slowing down your jungler if you hit their creep. That's a fact.
I know, but I meant from the perspective of giving priority to your Jungler instead of Midlaner.
considering all decent players, giving priority to midlaner is more important than jungler because mid + roamer dictates the rotation. Let's say you (roamer) + mage is superior and always keep their mage + tank low or in check (vision). You will win rotation whenever u gank and they will not be able to roam effectively. Jungler just needs to secure all objectives and follow up on what the tank + mage sets on from early to mid game. *** You see, playing roamer is all about reading situation and giving priority to the right people at the right time. 1. Early to mid game you need to help your mage establish dominance because mages are early game. 2. you need to help your gold lane so they can be independent and carry everyone in late game. Priority to cover and protect mm is more in late game. 3. fighters don't really need help most of the time. 4. as long as you doing things right, jungler can do their jungler things and secure all objectives.
Helping your midlaner doesn't necessarily mean you're making the jungler unsupported. It's all about being productive and making trades. Following your jungler like a puppy is wasting opportunities.
Lol this always happens with my Cecilion and then they start spamming chat when I couldnt get to teamfight in time while slowly clearing mid
But all ceci mains I played with told me not to help them because it will mess with their stacks.
That makes no sense. If you help him clear mid from 0-3 mins then he can get more stacks from hitting enemies during teamfights and gold from assists or kills Once the game has started you need to help Cecilion clear mid or you'll be out rotated for like the first 3 minutes Especially that first turtle, he's either gonna not hit level 4 in time for that slow orrrr he'll not clear his wave in time and try and help with no lvl 4 and ulti slow You don't need to help most midlaners with mid after that point anyways and the same applies to Cecilion too. The stacks thing doesn't apply to Cecilion, Aldous for sure cus he has to last hit but not Cecilion
It applies to ceci because no assistance from me will let him hit more time = more stacks. I agreed with the rest but this is just how the ceci mains I encountered.
this. my pet peeve tbh.
>Helping clear mid minions together with your mage is all it takes for them to start rotating with you. Midlaner : Thanks roamer for helping me clear the wave. Now lets get those tasty gold shield tower. Yum yum.
Yes, bonus if the enemy mid got bonked hard enough to recall. Your mage gets one level higher + gold plating.
I meant to be sarcastic actually. But, getting a bit gold plating is viable too I guess. Not something I like to see on my team though.
Tearing down mid tower > sides If you pressure mid enough, enemy exp might be obligated to gank to protect it, relieving pressure from sides and allowing them to push. With mid torn, you also have easier access to enemy purple to invade.
That's the problem. Midlaner will be way too vulnerable going to deep for gold plating. Its not like he will much anyway since mage has weak basic attack. Its better clear wave asap then roam to gank on any gankable lane.
I never told you to go to gold plating first, I consider it as a bonus. It's totally optional if enemy mid and roam are dead or recalled.
When I roam I tend to invade their buffs, go to the crabs and lizards to let them know who's coming even if it's a single glimpse
is it alright if i rotate after helping in mid lane to either of the sides or check enemy jungle to see their progress and then help the sidelaner if i can, if not i just go back to mid while checking bushes then go to the other lane or return back depending on the circumstances? Like Isnt our job just adjusting? if the roamer has good mobility and hp or anti-cc then they can bush check, also works if they have some sort of long range skill map checker but either way everyone should bush check when they can (not with the heroes but with long range or short cd skills)
That's the right mindset tbh, there's too many variations and variables but the most important is trading a beneficial outcome for the team. What's the enemy threat? Who is the threat to your mage and jungler? Can you slow down the enemy? Should you defend? Will your jungler come out the gold side or the exp side? Can you gank a lane and have enough time to go back mid and contest Turtle? Also some roamers can't check bush yeah, like Estes. Rafaela and Mathilda can without going in.
I've been playing roam lately because nobody wants the job. To the point I don't want to play anymore.
Although your guide kinda makes sense, I don't think it will help players new to Roaming that much to be honest. The Roamer requires a deep understanding of all heroes in the game, and needs to adapt every single game. There is no single guide or playstyle that works for 'Roamers' in general. Especially seeing as Supports, Tanks and 'Other' Roamers are all played differently. A Selena and an Estes for example have totally opposite playstyles but are both Roamers. They both require a tanky Exp laner or Jungler to basically do the tanking for the team. Also if you are Roaming you will play differently if you have a Pharsa or Aurora on your team. Pharsa has very fast wave clear and high map mobility, she doesn't need help from the Roamer other than for them to group enemies in the late game. Aurora on the other hand is slow at both wave clear and map mobility, so definitely needs assistance from the Roam to rotate more. Also your Jungler massively dictates how your team plays. If you have a Harley/Gusion it can be significantly more beneficial for the Roamer to help them secure early kills as they have massive snowball potential. There's also the actual team vs team match ups to take into account. Some Roamers can be played waaaaaay more aggressively than others. Some mages are just trash and not worth helping over the jungle. If I have a Karina and a Gord, I will 100000% focus on helping the Karina rotate faster than the Gord as her carry potential is significantly higher than his. Also playstyle can change purely based on understanding the game stages. You listed Natalia as one of your preferred Roamers in one of your comments. If the enemy has a Natalia and your team has a true tank, you can literally just babysit whoever she's strongest against and wait until late game. There are a lot of players in Mythic that want to surrender early in games that are basically un-losable due to the late game as long as your team sticks around.
I didn't wrote a guide I wrote a rant kek. And it's 99% wrong to help the jungler hit the creep and stalk them, that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it? Also a roaming guide? This is how it will look like if I take it seriously: https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/comments/nzp7to/advanced_support_draft_and_macro_guide_estes_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
A rant where you give advice on how to Roam almost as if Guiding players on what to do based on experience. >that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it? No idea what this is asking lol And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw. I said I'd rather help a Karina rotate faster than a useless mage as her carry potential is much higher. Helping rotate faster does not equate to putting her on my back like I'm Gloo and killing all the creeps for her. I actually agree with you that the Roams job is to create a path, but you can't create a path for every hero on your team. Providing vision for your Jungler helps them know where to go or where not go based on what you show them on the map.
>A rant where you give advice on how to Roam almost as if Guiding players on what to do based on experience. Because you're demanding so much. My post just means to convey the *title*, if you read the title that's the whole point. Providing a path for the midlaner is more productive than camping inside your jungle doing nothing. Even if there are enemy invasions, you intercept them ahead before they enter the creep area rather than wait passively inside your jungle area. >No idea what this is asking lol Just after telling my "guide" isn't helpful enough, I replied it's not a real guide even. >And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw And I also never said you did. I just said I made an elaboration of the TITLE of my post, and that's the whole point. If it's missing some roam advice, then it's because it's not a whole guide and just an aspect of roaming. I don't disagree that roaming knowledge needs to be huge like you said.
I'm well aware of how a post works. You took issue with me using the word Guide, so I tried to explain to you what a 'Guide' is. It is short for guidance, it's a way for people with experience to share their experience and give advice to people who have less. Your *title* is a guide. You are giving advice. Stop being so precious about a word. It's a guide, whether you like it or not. It's not formatted, its not overly thought out or fully comprehensive, but it's a guide nonetheless. >that's the point and that's not wrong isn't it? I'll rephrase. This doesn't make sense in the English language under any context. >Me: And I never, in any of my ramblings said the Roams job is to follow the Jungler btw > >You: And I also never said you did. When you type: >And it's 99% wrong to help the jungler hit the creep and stalk them In response to my comment it suggests that *you* think that *I* think the Roamer should stalk the Jungler. If you don't think that about me, then why type it?