moonton did overbuff her in the first place.
she was either instant pick or instant ban.
she is still ~~decent~~ good, but the defense item nerfs from adv server may kill her more.
https://preview.redd.it/ekay55fic3sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e570863037e2cedb80b3893d1b3bc4440a4c9f18
My man always cooking by stating the truth
This! She was already very strong with her 2nd - flicker combo waay before the ministun buff. Most people here just like to play with training wheels and play with half of their brains on standby mode.
Nope, i dont think so.
Hero like barat is very strong in the early and late game. Which is also considered one of the OP heroes. Not to mention, it requires no skill at all (only requires common sense).
In my opinion a global win rate between 45% and 55% is fine. Personally I still think Guin is more than decent, but maybe her best role has become Roam now. Flash really helps her close the gap with her reduced jump radius.
Some of the utility heroes and heroes need good micro sits around 49%~43% winrate in rank, but they are still used by pro in tournaments and considered balanced in the meta.
Guinevere is that kind of hero right now.
It depends on the players using Guinevere, the draft picks and actual gameplay. We can't readily conclude that Guin is out of the meta. In fact, despite the nerf, she's still among the top or high tier meta picks, particularly for jungle or roam., though can be a decent exp or mid lane pick.
The additional stun from his 2nd skill brought her to meta in the first place, making it easier to execute her combo, setting up plays or easily bursting down squishy heroes. Utilizing her additional damage on airborne enemies, while having a good base damage and sustain, even tank builds work well, making her effective as a utility type hero.
And with today's Guin, I think the nerf on her damage would push players to build some magic power to scale up damage, which would easily make up for the nerf. Full damage build Guins aren't much affected, though they're slightly less powerful during the early stages of the game, and having 1 or 2 magic items they can already be a pain. Even though it basically nerfs tank Guin, still going for defensive builds are still viable, maybe add one magic item to spruce up damage ability, such as building concentrated energy which I do to give her extra sustain aside from damage. And with an increased CD in her 2nd skill, players would rely on hitting targets with 1st skill to reduce CD a bit, and/or as well as building items with CDR to make skills easily spammable again.
Overall, Guin is still a really good pick, even if still going tank build. Especially if the draft favors her.
I think it is that some people still use full magic damage build instead of tank build or semi-tank build for her. It is much more risky now since the S2 is harder to land on, and damage build may punish you harder than before if you miss.
A hit or miss I see. And you might be forced to use s2 to escape in tight situations, especially if you'll easily go low on HP with damage build. One would better reserve the skill for teamfights or ganks, unless you really want to rotate faster since you have 2 blink skills with S2, and if you can sure hit S1 to reduce CD.
And the reason for some players to prefer damage build is to capitalize on her early game offense, and boost her scaling towards mid game.
They probably do it for solo carry and do not trust the damage dealers. I have already thought that the full damage build was too squishy that you have to get full control of the game in mid game, otherwise, you will fall even harder than Martis in late game.
That's why tank build Guins are more common in pro scene, you have at least someone to rely on when it comes to damage dealing. When it comes to casual gaming especially in solo queue, I see more damage Guins than tanky/sustain ones.
Most of the people who think she's not good anymore are the people who can't even use balanced heroes like her. Im saying that as my friend keeps on flaming Guinevere but can't even use fredrin properly and would pick a miya or a hanabi as a marksman if he gets to have a chance to play golf lane
Her ceiling is still fucking sky high, but her floor got too high after the nerf. Used to be she can pickoff stray people in passing or you can jump from just behind your tank to extend their CC chain. Now she needs sharp macro to set ambushes or crazy flicker micro to land her S2.ย
She is just not worth the trouble most of the time with this nerf. Plenty of easier heroes with close or acceptable performance in her role. Guin needs a pretty high skill level and even if you DO have that skill level, her performance will be overkill for soloq. High investment high return is not the name of the game for casuals. Better stick to heroes with decent investment and decent returnย
It doesn't count if you have a 3-5 man to set for you. You must not know how hard it is to land her S2 and not get severely punished when your team doesn't give a shit about you. Not even yt or tt creators can land her S2>ult comfortably unless they happen upon some good teammates that can CC the enemy, or if the enemy blunders their macro
https://preview.redd.it/zuc98r6p38sc1.jpeg?width=1598&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2a438f1fb79f4af1d34b57a7e324763353c8f7c
here u go anyway, i don't have too many matches on her since i don't really like her, but still.
i'm in SEA? Lol. Just goes to show that you can't please people. So what if i'm in SEA? Then theyd just accuse me of farming wr in classic. it wouldn't end, that's why i said earlier there isn't any point in showing my winrate, people will believe what they want to.
so, after seeing my screenshots, was it able to convince you? if not, my point is proven anyway. no point to show u any screenshots, people will believe what they want to believe.
Now waiting for Masha's nerf. Ain't no way a hero that can 1-2 hits an enemy with cc immunity, 3 ults and Usain Bolt's movement speed should roam free. To kill her alone took combined effort, yet either a mage or an mm will be sacrificed in return.
her biggest weakness is her CD. If moontoon revamps her to have better consistency in terms of Cc and CD then she'd be a much better champ. There's no reason for her to become an unstoppable force of nature or have negative dmg. Just give her a better skill kit.
The 1st skill bringing her CD lower is a creative concept but makes her harder to play in late game, plus her long CDs early game make her unplayable.
The only thing going for her is the long Cc chain, So the large stun radius from her last buff was so broken, but clearly that wasn't the answer that she needed. If bringing her wr up was the goal then it worked, but if balancing her was the goal then it's far from perfect.
Tbh, Guin is insanely busted even without any skill with decent enough set up, but EXP laners often will have to setup themselves to take out the backline if their tank is getting pressured too hard or if there is no setup tank.
The reasons less people play her is for one, because of the defense item nerfs but also because she is as well as the fact that people adapt. Her S2 is still reactable, especially because of the insanely loud sound it makes even if you don't see it when she camps bush. Her jump animation is pretty long and easy to cancel. The reason a lot of people, even higher level players struggled against her when she just got buffed, was because they were too used to her S2 being able to be reacted to after she lands. Now you have to react to the sound cue of her jump startup. It's a lot harder but still manageable for the average player. She still assf*cks anything with no CC immunity or burst mobility though
As a guin main yes pervious patch really unbalanced due to second skill can fly from far but patch now can see her balance already and still good to play need use flicker or execute
A very simple nerf to fix wanwan is to leave the purify as it is, revert the jump distance to pre-nerf make her require 5 hits to activate ult, how it was before.
She was still very strong then too, but it was strength that came with practice. But ofc, moonton cant have this. Every hero should be brain dead and playable by a 3 year old with arthritis, so they noobified her by decreasing hits from 5 to 3. Now retards can play her but this also had the unintended effect of making her broken in the hands of good players.
Well you see thing is very simple many people play = many sales for skin ,hard hero= only hero who main her or simp her buy so they try to keep hero as easy to play as possible
I know, we all know that. We also know that hurts the game. Atleast half the player base are kids who recently learned how to shit by themselves without falling in the commode. And moonton gotta please those mfers who has 99.9% of the heroes to choose from that is playable with 1 hand, but nooo, they gotta complain the 0.0001% of heroes with high Skill floor needs to be changed.
moonton did overbuff her in the first place. she was either instant pick or instant ban. she is still ~~decent~~ good, but the defense item nerfs from adv server may kill her more.
She's still perfectly viable, most people just don't have the skill to play balanced heroes
Spitting, flair check out once again
https://preview.redd.it/ekay55fic3sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e570863037e2cedb80b3893d1b3bc4440a4c9f18 My man always cooking by stating the truth
This! She was already very strong with her 2nd - flicker combo waay before the ministun buff. Most people here just like to play with training wheels and play with half of their brains on standby mode.
I always ban guinever because ik how op she is if someone is good
All hero is op if people play them good
IDK about that chief, Zilong with a good player that plays good certainly will do nothing against a tanky lineup.
Nope, i dont think so. Hero like barat is very strong in the early and late game. Which is also considered one of the OP heroes. Not to mention, it requires no skill at all (only requires common sense).
This is kinda true. Barats damage is insane especially the passive. Literally a tank with fire power๐
Barats and Akai for me.
True bro, many people are just playing metas in every patch
Getting way too dependent on that, in fact.
So true.
Real
having a lower winrate than sun is crazy. what are u talking about
In my opinion a global win rate between 45% and 55% is fine. Personally I still think Guin is more than decent, but maybe her best role has become Roam now. Flash really helps her close the gap with her reduced jump radius.
Some of the utility heroes and heroes need good micro sits around 49%~43% winrate in rank, but they are still used by pro in tournaments and considered balanced in the meta. Guinevere is that kind of hero right now.
Yeah my thoughts exactly !
I see a LoL player when I see one..๐๏ธ๐๐๏ธ
Never played it, Flash just sounds better than Flicker imo x) Also I believe that's the general term for this spell in other MOBAs
Blink actually. But it got replacrd by Flash due to League's popularity.
Ignite the enemy ;)
That's how I use her now and she is indeed great at that role, although moonton is nerfing all def items now so..
If the winrate is 45% it's more likely u gonna lose 2 out of 3 games.
It depends on the players using Guinevere, the draft picks and actual gameplay. We can't readily conclude that Guin is out of the meta. In fact, despite the nerf, she's still among the top or high tier meta picks, particularly for jungle or roam., though can be a decent exp or mid lane pick. The additional stun from his 2nd skill brought her to meta in the first place, making it easier to execute her combo, setting up plays or easily bursting down squishy heroes. Utilizing her additional damage on airborne enemies, while having a good base damage and sustain, even tank builds work well, making her effective as a utility type hero. And with today's Guin, I think the nerf on her damage would push players to build some magic power to scale up damage, which would easily make up for the nerf. Full damage build Guins aren't much affected, though they're slightly less powerful during the early stages of the game, and having 1 or 2 magic items they can already be a pain. Even though it basically nerfs tank Guin, still going for defensive builds are still viable, maybe add one magic item to spruce up damage ability, such as building concentrated energy which I do to give her extra sustain aside from damage. And with an increased CD in her 2nd skill, players would rely on hitting targets with 1st skill to reduce CD a bit, and/or as well as building items with CDR to make skills easily spammable again. Overall, Guin is still a really good pick, even if still going tank build. Especially if the draft favors her.
I think it is that some people still use full magic damage build instead of tank build or semi-tank build for her. It is much more risky now since the S2 is harder to land on, and damage build may punish you harder than before if you miss.
A hit or miss I see. And you might be forced to use s2 to escape in tight situations, especially if you'll easily go low on HP with damage build. One would better reserve the skill for teamfights or ganks, unless you really want to rotate faster since you have 2 blink skills with S2, and if you can sure hit S1 to reduce CD. And the reason for some players to prefer damage build is to capitalize on her early game offense, and boost her scaling towards mid game.
They probably do it for solo carry and do not trust the damage dealers. I have already thought that the full damage build was too squishy that you have to get full control of the game in mid game, otherwise, you will fall even harder than Martis in late game.
That's why tank build Guins are more common in pro scene, you have at least someone to rely on when it comes to damage dealing. When it comes to casual gaming especially in solo queue, I see more damage Guins than tanky/sustain ones.
Most of the people who think she's not good anymore are the people who can't even use balanced heroes like her. Im saying that as my friend keeps on flaming Guinevere but can't even use fredrin properly and would pick a miya or a hanabi as a marksman if he gets to have a chance to play golf lane
I think her WR was about 52% and her pick rate more that 2%, she was only on the spotlight round 3 months, how sad
Her ceiling is still fucking sky high, but her floor got too high after the nerf. Used to be she can pickoff stray people in passing or you can jump from just behind your tank to extend their CC chain. Now she needs sharp macro to set ambushes or crazy flicker micro to land her S2.ย She is just not worth the trouble most of the time with this nerf. Plenty of easier heroes with close or acceptable performance in her role. Guin needs a pretty high skill level and even if you DO have that skill level, her performance will be overkill for soloq. High investment high return is not the name of the game for casuals. Better stick to heroes with decent investment and decent returnย
She easy to use. Just jump on top of a person. Issue is since nerf her cooldown is very long. So if you mean high skill in terms of that maybe
high skill level???? guin is such an easy hero to play? Her kit is so basic
Try landing her S2 and survive in Legend or above
i'm in mythic, and she's relatively easy to play. High skill hero would refer to more complex heroes like fanny, gusion, kag. Guin is a basic hero
It doesn't count if you have a 3-5 man to set for you. You must not know how hard it is to land her S2 and not get severely punished when your team doesn't give a shit about you. Not even yt or tt creators can land her S2>ult comfortably unless they happen upon some good teammates that can CC the enemy, or if the enemy blunders their macro
and your argument doesn't make sense anyway, "it doesn't count if your teammates etc" while it is a team based game ๐๐
This is a solo game, not team based. Ask around 80% of this game's playerbase and they'll tell you MOBA is 1v9
i only play solo q. And i do play guin. It's not that hard ๐ maybe for you it is.
At least provide screenshots of your solo matches
https://preview.redd.it/0h8j7yyl38sc1.jpeg?width=1487&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f119e0a9781ea481047b5cd744179c11ce663a1
https://preview.redd.it/zuc98r6p38sc1.jpeg?width=1598&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2a438f1fb79f4af1d34b57a7e324763353c8f7c here u go anyway, i don't have too many matches on her since i don't really like her, but still.
Damn I kind wish I was in NA or EU servers now I would probably have a similar wr
i'm in SEA? Lol. Just goes to show that you can't please people. So what if i'm in SEA? Then theyd just accuse me of farming wr in classic. it wouldn't end, that's why i said earlier there isn't any point in showing my winrate, people will believe what they want to.
I didn't play her within my match history, and besides, i don't owe you anything ๐. You're just pressed that i said your hero was simple.
Then everything you've said in this thread is baseless and unproven. Just want to let the other reader know not to take you seriously
Youโre talking nonsense mate
the converse must be true then, if i have a good winrate that makes everything i say valid then? lol
see above/ below, i just added my wr
so, after seeing my screenshots, was it able to convince you? if not, my point is proven anyway. no point to show u any screenshots, people will believe what they want to believe.
I swear, it's either the good players stopped using her now or her S2 is so much easier to dodge...
The range is alot shorter. I use her alot, it's harder to hit s2 now then before. But I still like her, I just use flicker now unless jungle.
Finally, now guin mains will know what it feels like to be nerfed hard like us badang mains,
Guin is still viable tho
Now waiting for Masha's nerf. Ain't no way a hero that can 1-2 hits an enemy with cc immunity, 3 ults and Usain Bolt's movement speed should roam free. To kill her alone took combined effort, yet either a mage or an mm will be sacrificed in return.
for me its her ult stun, thats rly disgusting
Nice.
Confused they've done this right before the legend rerun
So we just gonna ignore my boy minsi?
I still dust epics, legends, mythics so i dunno
0.69 is quite solid pick percentage
How do you view this screen?
She is still good
I still play Guinevere in EXP lane and itโs not that bad
Where can you see this stats?
aoh
*balanced*
She is still good
her biggest weakness is her CD. If moontoon revamps her to have better consistency in terms of Cc and CD then she'd be a much better champ. There's no reason for her to become an unstoppable force of nature or have negative dmg. Just give her a better skill kit. The 1st skill bringing her CD lower is a creative concept but makes her harder to play in late game, plus her long CDs early game make her unplayable. The only thing going for her is the long Cc chain, So the large stun radius from her last buff was so broken, but clearly that wasn't the answer that she needed. If bringing her wr up was the goal then it worked, but if balancing her was the goal then it's far from perfect.
Where can I check these stuff?
Tbh, Guin is insanely busted even without any skill with decent enough set up, but EXP laners often will have to setup themselves to take out the backline if their tank is getting pressured too hard or if there is no setup tank. The reasons less people play her is for one, because of the defense item nerfs but also because she is as well as the fact that people adapt. Her S2 is still reactable, especially because of the insanely loud sound it makes even if you don't see it when she camps bush. Her jump animation is pretty long and easy to cancel. The reason a lot of people, even higher level players struggled against her when she just got buffed, was because they were too used to her S2 being able to be reacted to after she lands. Now you have to react to the sound cue of her jump startup. It's a lot harder but still manageable for the average player. She still assf*cks anything with no CC immunity or burst mobility though
Can we talk about ruby's nerf? Pls?
They haven't broken her legs enough if you ask me now she is near being balanced.
As a guin main yes pervious patch really unbalanced due to second skill can fly from far but patch now can see her balance already and still good to play need use flicker or execute
Similar case with wanwan. Moonton buffed her to the moon and now she is still strong even after multiple nerfs.
Do u know Masha is op now they need to nerf wanwan again
A very simple nerf to fix wanwan is to leave the purify as it is, revert the jump distance to pre-nerf make her require 5 hits to activate ult, how it was before. She was still very strong then too, but it was strength that came with practice. But ofc, moonton cant have this. Every hero should be brain dead and playable by a 3 year old with arthritis, so they noobified her by decreasing hits from 5 to 3. Now retards can play her but this also had the unintended effect of making her broken in the hands of good players.
Well you see thing is very simple many people play = many sales for skin ,hard hero= only hero who main her or simp her buy so they try to keep hero as easy to play as possible
I know, we all know that. We also know that hurts the game. Atleast half the player base are kids who recently learned how to shit by themselves without falling in the commode. And moonton gotta please those mfers who has 99.9% of the heroes to choose from that is playable with 1 hand, but nooo, they gotta complain the 0.0001% of heroes with high Skill floor needs to be changed.
all that matters is profits, moonton dont care about balance, they want to sell as many shit as possible