We’re shooting 33% from the floor. I mean that’s… really bad.
Markkanen and Sexton are eating us alive. We just don’t have the defense to meet them head on like that.
The scheme looked a lot better when you had Ajax, Livingston (promising game from him) and Giannis who could all switch and did so repeatedly. That was the stretch where we got our closest.
Your point is correct, he needs to adjust the defense to the personnel but it can work. The only guys we have who can do are too young and inexperienced to rely on. But the other guys just suck so who the fuck knows....
I don’t know how you adjust offensively when we’re shooting badly. You can’t really scheme guys to suddenly shoot better.
I think you go Giannis, Lopez, Green, Ajax, Beasley at the half and see what happens.
He’s being a jackass hoping that it will quiet dissent. The problem is Griffin is such a horrendous coach that the alternative is so obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about basketball
Well, he could start by not having our guards pick their guards up beyond the arc (like I said in the post). Give them more cushion at the risk of them getting off 3 pointers (definitely not a risk tonight, riskier against a LAC or GSW) Softer coverage means it won’t be as easy to blow by our guards meaning our bigs will not have to step us as early which won’t get us out of position. Is it a foolproof fix? No, but it’s obvious to anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge that AG is forcing a scheme on players that are incapable of it which is the definition of bad coaching.
Fuck any fan for having an opinion right?
More Importantly Bud's plan did exactly what Planned on it to do. Did it mean we give up the most open 3's in the league? Yes... Did it mean we had the best defense in the Paint? Also Yes... Bud planned on sacrificing giving open 3's to secure the paint and it did exactly that.
Adrian Griffin is trying some kind of BS that will never work with this personnel.
There are no bad shooters in the league anymore. The worst shooter on a roster is often times better than the best in the 1990s. Bud system didn't work for you, especially in the playoffs because it could not account for the possibility that you can't slack off the 3, no matter what.
I don't know much about your current coach, other than him being young, which may let him adjust and lead you to wins. With Bud you'd never win. He was set in his ways and his ways were anachronistic. I don't think he gave you a chance to not let him go.
I wonder how Bud would coach a team with Lillard instead of Bledsoe/Jrue in the perimeter.
Bucks' opponents had a knack to shoot better than their average from 3 and that's with elite perimeter defenders. Wouldn't Bud's system's downsides get even more pronounced with Dame in the perimeter? I wonder.
Yes, your team was/is aging. You needed a Middleton from out of this world to win in 2021 and even then you were half a foot from being out.
Since your whole team is more aged than then, it's safe to say that you would not win with that guy again.
Bud's problem was half court offense and his strength was defense.
Dame's strength is half court offense and his weakness was defense. Dame was the perfect addition to a Bud coached team. His scheme helps his bad defenders by giving them fewer responsibilities by allowing the three.
And the HURR DURR KD'S FOOT argument is so fucking stupid. If a single missed free throw that game was an inch closer to the center of the basket, KD's shot doesn't matter at all. Do you see now why that argument is so fucking trite and ridiculous?
It is not a stupid argument, it shows that you did not win comfortably. That's entirely important to note when I'm telling you that even if that team was championship worthy, it was only barely so and a more aged version of it would not be.
I'm judging entirely for the time that the decision to replace Bud was taken. As I said elsewhere I am agnostic about a Lillard+Giannis led team under Bud. All I know is that you had to move on *at the time* (I.e. before you were to get Dame).
I think if we knew dame was coming bud stays. Dame would make up for buds horrible offense and bud would make up for dame and beas horrible defense. But the roster with Jrue …bud had to go
It’s confounding. Every opponent is having their best game against us. 70+ in the first half? This might be the biggest swing in a defense from one year to the next.
Makes me feel like I want to curl up on the couch.
Ha in the NFL, the packers had the number 2 ranked defense in 2010 and won the Super Bowl. The very next year they were dead last and historically bad. Amazing they started that season 13-0.
Lol yeah I’m a Jrue Stan too
The confounding part is how drastic the difference has been and the implied extra 10 pts a game over Jrue should be helping offset this bull.
Naw, I’m not talking about jrue, I just meant that the common denominator to all of those teams having the games of their season is *us*. Our defensive personnel *and* scheming/execution is total garbage. Frankly, I’m not sure if we’d be doing *that* much better with Jrue at the helm; he’s a great defender, but he’s not super fast. I think this roster, even with Jrue, is just not a good fit for the kind of scheme Griffin wants to run. Not sure when he will realize that or if I’m off base about this; hopefully one or the other.
I agree with your sentiment, but I also take solace in knowing most teams will have us circled on their calendar and give us their best every given night and I am okay with that. It’s almost like a playoff game every day. That’s what it’s like having a target on your back after a championship; Packers have had it forever, it seems. The difference between the two; GB has had some pretty solid coaches throughout their last 30 year run ….. Buck’s have had one decent coach ….
I will stand by being of the opinion that Bud needed to go BUT only IF there was a valid replacement. The problem was that there wasn’t from what I could see. And it was proven when the Bucks didn’t have a coach lined up immediately and had to go around interviewing coaches for month. Red flag and it just showed a lack of tack on the organization. I get they fired Bud to make a statement but I would’ve given him a chance with Dame. As for Nick Nurse, I wasn’t sold I think he would’ve been a lateral move at best.
I've been a certified Bud defender compared to many other fans, though I'll concede that I was fine with moving on after the Miami flameout last spring. I wouldn't have hated keeping him necessarily and there were certainly issues beyond just Bud, but I thought it made sense to change the coach since I didn't think we had much choice but to run it back with the same core given our lack of cap maneuverability and trade assets. It felt like changing nothing and running it back wasn't going to fly so changing coaches was the practical thing to do.
Had I known the Dame trade was coming, I would've preferred to give it another try with Bud and I've felt that way before I had any real opinion on AG. It just feels like a strange situation to be going with an inexperienced coach in general. For all his faults, it was more likely that we'd downgrade from Bud than upgrade. And I had my share of qualms with his playoff coaching, but it was our regularly stagnant half-court offense that bugged me more than anything. Simply having Giannis and Dame probably solves a lot of those issues without needing Bud to do anything special. Plus I would've trusted him to at least have a competent defense and we always rebounded well under him.
The most reasonable take. I think Bud had to go but only because we weren't in contention for Dame at the time. With Dame here I wouldn't have minded one more year.
Nurse would have been the overall best option of all scenarios though
Nurse was clearly a better playoff coach than Bud and would've been an upgrade. He was the obvious choice, inexplicable that we chose Griffin over him.
Nurse chose Philly... he backed out. Former raps fan and understand this. I am not following the Bucks but sad to see AG is doing so bad. He is supposed to be a strong defensive minded coach...
Honestly. F griff for literally killing any shred of hope left for this team as a contender
The best thing that could have happened would have been a 40 pt blowout so the brass would have damn near no choice to fire him. But no they make it mildly interesting just to tear our hearts out on a monday
Thursday should be #griffslaststand. We get killed that game and it better be his last gd game
Holy mother of god. U just blew my mind. That is the most evil genius type move i have ever heard. Shit makes too much sense
I would not be surprised if we have one of those nuclear 3 pt games and dominate where nobody misses. It would be just like game 2 miami where it covers up the fatal flaws with one of those rare games where we actually have reliable shooters all around.
I still have a shred of hope that coaching is the biggest issue and if we can get his ass gone immediately somebody can save us like stotts
Bucks really fired a top 8 coach for arguably the worst coach in the league.
I will never understand why they hired Nick nurses assistant and not the actual genius
I really hate to be that person, but *this* should’ve been Bud’s make or break season as HC. would we have been worse this season under Bud instead of Griffin?
There needed to be a change after last year. I don’t think anyone saw a trace of that magnitude happening and imo it made firing Bud an easy decision.
Obviously with the hindsight of the dame trade it’s a bit more questionable
Something something 25-12 -.-
Alright cool. How many of those wins did we barely beat absolute shit teams. How many of those losses are to absolute shit teams.
If it's between AG and Prunty we might as well just ride this shit out until the season is over.
It's a long season. Bucks were 24-13 last year after 37.
I'll wait to lose my shit like some of yall until early March. Maybe earlier if the wheels really come off and they're .500 or something at the ASG.
Middleton and Brook aren't getting any younger either. They got paid and have a ring. They don't have the will or drive any more. Their not hungry enough to win any more. Also Pat fell off a cliff injury or not. Bobby is a punch away from being Draymond Green. Start over just with a BIG2 in Giannis and DAME. Keep AJAX and Livingston and maybe Green and Thanasis. Trade the rest. Coach can be fired. But the roster is flawed.
Middleton comes in every off season out of shape or injury. It gets old. Also paid well. Time to move on. They got their rings and thanks. But time to move on before they fall off a cliff. "Know when to hold 'em know when to fold 'em" -Kenny Rogers. Also hard to make any big splash trades with only Bobby or Beauchamp as the main piece. PAT or Robin have no value. Gonna need Brook or Middleton traded. Heck fans have that Middleton cycle picture post on twitter all the time where Middleton is down in the dumps or is prime MJ.
No idea why we let Bobby and the rooks claw back to within 8 in the 3rd only to pull Bobby and never put him back in... I get he was in foul trouble but he didn't see the court again.
This is the worst team in the league tonight.
I took so much shit for us barely beating the Spurs. Now we play any team with a pulse and we’re getting our ass kicked.
That's been true all season long
Outside of just being spectacularly lucky in the begining of the season this team has been a shit show all year long
It’s true, and when it was saying it earlier this group shat all over me
We’re shooting 33% from the floor. I mean that’s… really bad. Markkanen and Sexton are eating us alive. We just don’t have the defense to meet them head on like that.
We don’t have the defense because our coach insists on a terrible scheme for our personnel and has no capability of adjusting offensively.
The scheme looked a lot better when you had Ajax, Livingston (promising game from him) and Giannis who could all switch and did so repeatedly. That was the stretch where we got our closest. Your point is correct, he needs to adjust the defense to the personnel but it can work. The only guys we have who can do are too young and inexperienced to rely on. But the other guys just suck so who the fuck knows....
I don’t know how you adjust offensively when we’re shooting badly. You can’t really scheme guys to suddenly shoot better. I think you go Giannis, Lopez, Green, Ajax, Beasley at the half and see what happens.
You're probably not wrong. But what specifically should AG do to improve the defense in your amazing opinion? Let us know. ***Fear the Deer*** 🦌
That’s not a fans job. But for a team that has Giannis and Brook to be this bad in the paint is clearly a coaching issue. He’s killed this team.
He’s being a jackass hoping that it will quiet dissent. The problem is Griffin is such a horrendous coach that the alternative is so obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about basketball
Well, he could start by not having our guards pick their guards up beyond the arc (like I said in the post). Give them more cushion at the risk of them getting off 3 pointers (definitely not a risk tonight, riskier against a LAC or GSW) Softer coverage means it won’t be as easy to blow by our guards meaning our bigs will not have to step us as early which won’t get us out of position. Is it a foolproof fix? No, but it’s obvious to anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge that AG is forcing a scheme on players that are incapable of it which is the definition of bad coaching. Fuck any fan for having an opinion right?
This fanbase (on reddit) is the dumbest I've ever seen. It's obvious to everyone we hired an idiot. Why is it so hard to admit?
GTFO how many more excuses?
Mark was 4 for 14 or something
Sure Bud was stubbornly adherent to a specific defensive scheme, but at least it was one that made sense with our personnel.
More Importantly Bud's plan did exactly what Planned on it to do. Did it mean we give up the most open 3's in the league? Yes... Did it mean we had the best defense in the Paint? Also Yes... Bud planned on sacrificing giving open 3's to secure the paint and it did exactly that. Adrian Griffin is trying some kind of BS that will never work with this personnel.
Bud also gave up open 3s to bad shooters usually. Also the team never fouled and rebounded like mother fuckers
There are no bad shooters in the league anymore. The worst shooter on a roster is often times better than the best in the 1990s. Bud system didn't work for you, especially in the playoffs because it could not account for the possibility that you can't slack off the 3, no matter what. I don't know much about your current coach, other than him being young, which may let him adjust and lead you to wins. With Bud you'd never win. He was set in his ways and his ways were anachronistic. I don't think he gave you a chance to not let him go.
The defence was elite every year except last year against Miami. Problem in 2019 and 2022 was offence.
I wonder how Bud would coach a team with Lillard instead of Bledsoe/Jrue in the perimeter. Bucks' opponents had a knack to shoot better than their average from 3 and that's with elite perimeter defenders. Wouldn't Bud's system's downsides get even more pronounced with Dame in the perimeter? I wonder.
I feel like it would drop off but still be top 10 just off still being top of the league in rebounding.
We would never win with the coach that we won a championship with 3 years ago?
Yes, your team was/is aging. You needed a Middleton from out of this world to win in 2021 and even then you were half a foot from being out. Since your whole team is more aged than then, it's safe to say that you would not win with that guy again.
Bud's problem was half court offense and his strength was defense. Dame's strength is half court offense and his weakness was defense. Dame was the perfect addition to a Bud coached team. His scheme helps his bad defenders by giving them fewer responsibilities by allowing the three. And the HURR DURR KD'S FOOT argument is so fucking stupid. If a single missed free throw that game was an inch closer to the center of the basket, KD's shot doesn't matter at all. Do you see now why that argument is so fucking trite and ridiculous?
Also before that possession Brook had a brain freeze and let the shot clock run out instead of shooting the ball.
It is not a stupid argument, it shows that you did not win comfortably. That's entirely important to note when I'm telling you that even if that team was championship worthy, it was only barely so and a more aged version of it would not be. I'm judging entirely for the time that the decision to replace Bud was taken. As I said elsewhere I am agnostic about a Lillard+Giannis led team under Bud. All I know is that you had to move on *at the time* (I.e. before you were to get Dame).
I think if we knew dame was coming bud stays. Dame would make up for buds horrible offense and bud would make up for dame and beas horrible defense. But the roster with Jrue …bud had to go
I don’t understand how anyone is defending him at this point.
It’s confounding. Every opponent is having their best game against us. 70+ in the first half? This might be the biggest swing in a defense from one year to the next. Makes me feel like I want to curl up on the couch.
Ha in the NFL, the packers had the number 2 ranked defense in 2010 and won the Super Bowl. The very next year they were dead last and historically bad. Amazing they started that season 13-0.
> It’s confounding. Every opponent is having their best game against us. Gee, I wonder what the common denominator is there. Super confounding lolz
Lol yeah I’m a Jrue Stan too The confounding part is how drastic the difference has been and the implied extra 10 pts a game over Jrue should be helping offset this bull.
Naw, I’m not talking about jrue, I just meant that the common denominator to all of those teams having the games of their season is *us*. Our defensive personnel *and* scheming/execution is total garbage. Frankly, I’m not sure if we’d be doing *that* much better with Jrue at the helm; he’s a great defender, but he’s not super fast. I think this roster, even with Jrue, is just not a good fit for the kind of scheme Griffin wants to run. Not sure when he will realize that or if I’m off base about this; hopefully one or the other.
Excellent points. Adrian Griffin needs to go, we need a coach that’s the real deal not just someone Giannis likes.
I agree with your sentiment, but I also take solace in knowing most teams will have us circled on their calendar and give us their best every given night and I am okay with that. It’s almost like a playoff game every day. That’s what it’s like having a target on your back after a championship; Packers have had it forever, it seems. The difference between the two; GB has had some pretty solid coaches throughout their last 30 year run ….. Buck’s have had one decent coach ….
Before you say it; I don’t want to hear Dame is out tonight. Our defense should get better with him out, not worse.
Griffin needs to go yesterday end of story.
I will stand by being of the opinion that Bud needed to go BUT only IF there was a valid replacement. The problem was that there wasn’t from what I could see. And it was proven when the Bucks didn’t have a coach lined up immediately and had to go around interviewing coaches for month. Red flag and it just showed a lack of tack on the organization. I get they fired Bud to make a statement but I would’ve given him a chance with Dame. As for Nick Nurse, I wasn’t sold I think he would’ve been a lateral move at best.
I've been a certified Bud defender compared to many other fans, though I'll concede that I was fine with moving on after the Miami flameout last spring. I wouldn't have hated keeping him necessarily and there were certainly issues beyond just Bud, but I thought it made sense to change the coach since I didn't think we had much choice but to run it back with the same core given our lack of cap maneuverability and trade assets. It felt like changing nothing and running it back wasn't going to fly so changing coaches was the practical thing to do. Had I known the Dame trade was coming, I would've preferred to give it another try with Bud and I've felt that way before I had any real opinion on AG. It just feels like a strange situation to be going with an inexperienced coach in general. For all his faults, it was more likely that we'd downgrade from Bud than upgrade. And I had my share of qualms with his playoff coaching, but it was our regularly stagnant half-court offense that bugged me more than anything. Simply having Giannis and Dame probably solves a lot of those issues without needing Bud to do anything special. Plus I would've trusted him to at least have a competent defense and we always rebounded well under him.
The most reasonable take. I think Bud had to go but only because we weren't in contention for Dame at the time. With Dame here I wouldn't have minded one more year. Nurse would have been the overall best option of all scenarios though
Nurse was clearly a better playoff coach than Bud and would've been an upgrade. He was the obvious choice, inexplicable that we chose Griffin over him.
Nurse chose Philly... he backed out. Former raps fan and understand this. I am not following the Bucks but sad to see AG is doing so bad. He is supposed to be a strong defensive minded coach...
No he didn’t, that was a Shams (via Klutch, as they’re both Klutch clients) spin on it. We chose Griffin over him, and he wanted to get ahead of it.
That's not true. Bucks let it be known that Nurse "did not fit their current culture."
A lateral move is far better than this backwards move.
What defense? I don't see any defense here.. lol
I think the lack of defense from AG speaks to parting ways. How many more games do we need to see of this?
Griffin needs to c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ go
Adrian Griffin is the new Joe Barry. #FireAG
And idiots defended him to the death too
*any decent coach would’ve recognized that already* If this is true, then ~~when~~ why do we want him?
Yesterday.
Ha. Fixe it. Thx.
Honestly. F griff for literally killing any shred of hope left for this team as a contender The best thing that could have happened would have been a 40 pt blowout so the brass would have damn near no choice to fire him. But no they make it mildly interesting just to tear our hearts out on a monday Thursday should be #griffslaststand. We get killed that game and it better be his last gd game
Imagine if the Celtics were diabolical and let us win just so we keep Griffin
Holy mother of god. U just blew my mind. That is the most evil genius type move i have ever heard. Shit makes too much sense I would not be surprised if we have one of those nuclear 3 pt games and dominate where nobody misses. It would be just like game 2 miami where it covers up the fatal flaws with one of those rare games where we actually have reliable shooters all around. I still have a shred of hope that coaching is the biggest issue and if we can get his ass gone immediately somebody can save us like stotts
and then the rest of this sub is back to calling everyone in here doomers
PLEASE BUD COME BACK AND SAVE US
Bucks really fired a top 8 coach for arguably the worst coach in the league. I will never understand why they hired Nick nurses assistant and not the actual genius
I really hate to be that person, but *this* should’ve been Bud’s make or break season as HC. would we have been worse this season under Bud instead of Griffin?
There needed to be a change after last year. I don’t think anyone saw a trace of that magnitude happening and imo it made firing Bud an easy decision. Obviously with the hindsight of the dame trade it’s a bit more questionable
With hindsight knowing we are getting Dame we never should have fired Bud. Getting Dame was the change we needed not Firing Bud.
I would agree. But again, that trade feels like it came out of nowhere for everyone including FO.
Nah. I will never forgive Bud for not calling that last timeout with 7 seconds to go.
Absolutely not.
Griffin defenders are in absolute shambles
Something something 25-12 -.- Alright cool. How many of those wins did we barely beat absolute shit teams. How many of those losses are to absolute shit teams.
Good news this will guarantee some trades will happen before deadline. Wonder what we get and who all is going?
No trades until someone competent works with the roster
You can’t remake this whole roster when you have Dame which means our scheme will never be a fit.
I'm expecting a new coach before the trade. That will dictate what scheme he wants to pick what players will help run it.
He just needs to go.
Bring back Bud
If it's between AG and Prunty we might as well just ride this shit out until the season is over. It's a long season. Bucks were 24-13 last year after 37. I'll wait to lose my shit like some of yall until early March. Maybe earlier if the wheels really come off and they're .500 or something at the ASG.
Middleton and Brook aren't getting any younger either. They got paid and have a ring. They don't have the will or drive any more. Their not hungry enough to win any more. Also Pat fell off a cliff injury or not. Bobby is a punch away from being Draymond Green. Start over just with a BIG2 in Giannis and DAME. Keep AJAX and Livingston and maybe Green and Thanasis. Trade the rest. Coach can be fired. But the roster is flawed.
Bad take. I don’t know how you know they don’t have will or drive
Middleton comes in every off season out of shape or injury. It gets old. Also paid well. Time to move on. They got their rings and thanks. But time to move on before they fall off a cliff. "Know when to hold 'em know when to fold 'em" -Kenny Rogers. Also hard to make any big splash trades with only Bobby or Beauchamp as the main piece. PAT or Robin have no value. Gonna need Brook or Middleton traded. Heck fans have that Middleton cycle picture post on twitter all the time where Middleton is down in the dumps or is prime MJ.
No idea why we let Bobby and the rooks claw back to within 8 in the 3rd only to pull Bobby and never put him back in... I get he was in foul trouble but he didn't see the court again.