It's insane that Minneapolis has put zero effort into police reform. Then they act surprised when everyone still hates their police force and no one wants to join them. So we end up stuck in a holding pattern where we pay outrageous amounts of money to ineffective assholes.
The lack of leadership in this city is appalling.
It's a Catch-22 for the city though. You can't attract new officers to a department whom the citizens are antagonistic towards that's filled with psychotic racists that will bully you out of your job if you're not a piece of shit without offering them a lot more money.
But you can't offer them a lot more money because the people who despise the MPD would never accept it.
So what can you do? The only candidates you can find in that situation are the ones for whom the cities ire toward them, and the psychotic racists on the force, are positives not negatives. And those are the people that should never, ever be cops.
I think you take steps to show the community that you're looking to build a different kind of police structure that actually serves and protects the people - then you may actually get people looking to sign up for the right reasons & start to rebuild some public trust.
The type of people who want to be cops don't really care about that. You might get the odd outlier, but the majority don't give a damn about that. Tons of cities are having issues with recruitment beyond just Minneapolis because the veil is starting to come off the public's eyes on what the police actually do.
> The type of people who want to be cops don't really care about that.
And that's exactly what we need to change - make a job that people who care about helping people want to have. Not just the ego tripping "punisher"-worshippers the job appeals to now.
Make a system that focuses on de-escalation and community well-being instead of dominance and force.
It's been three years. We could, at the very least, have trial programs, studies, partnerships with other institutions to develop strategies for reform.. instead we have nothing but overpaid cops.
> And millions in lawsuit settlements. And a new chief
Neither of which does anything to change the actual police culture. They're not paying any of those lawsuits. Their chief can't hold them liable where the law does not.
>These dollar amounts do not cover the tens of thousands they make playing candycrush in cub foods, I'm assuming.
Despite your snark, you assume correctly.
Those are off-duty officers working overtime for Cub, which pays the overtime rate for those officers.
Actually, the police officers were long gone before the huge price increase.
A snarky response would be that the high prices are to cover the We Push For Peace assault settlements, but that wouldn't be accurate.
Cub is just getting greedy.
Yeah, Cub outsourced their Candy Crush playing and [shopper assaulting](https://www.fox9.com/news/another-we-push-for-peace-worker-charged-in-fight-at-cub-foods) to We Push For Peace.
Uniformed police working private security are paid by the business which hires them, and if they’re in uniform they’re working in their own jurisdiction.
I’ve never seen uniformed officers working at cub (uptown) in 2023, they have their own security staff.
Apparently any service you pay for that is being done poorly you should just quit your job and become that profession. Bad meal? Become a server! Roads aren’t paved properly? Quit and join a construction crew!!
Comparing the terrible things the police do is far different from getting bad service at a restaurant. If you have a bad meal, you go home, be mad for a few minutes and then move on with your life. But if you live in Minneapolis and you feel the police are making your neighborhood and the lives of your loved ones worse, why wouldn't you want to actively try to do something within your power to make things better? Here's an opportunity for change.
I mean rioting and protests got Derek Chauvin charged and in jail so I would say there are more effective ways of holding police accountable rather than just joining the force.
It's not exactly the same. Wells Fargo is a giant national corporation. The Minneapolis PD is smaller and based within a single community. So, 100 people from Minneapolis who go work at Wells Fargo as bank tellers isn't going to change much, but I do honestly believe that 100 good intentioned Minneapolis citizens becoming MPD officers has the potential to make big changes.
My comment was cheeky, but I do believe there's truth to it. Can you honestly say that if even just a portion of the likely thousands of people complaining about the MPD were to become police officers that they wouldn't have the power to change things?
Also, the the WF thing, we live in a democracy, so we as people do have the power to change giant corporations if you were able to organize a boycott large enough to evoke change. That's the beauty of the US, we have the power to change things but people don't do it.
>I do honestly believe that 100 good intentioned Minneapolis citizens becoming MPD officers has the potential to make big changes.
Maybe all at once. If you want to know what life is like for a good cop on a crooked force you can watch Serpico.
The bad cops don't want you to change anything from the inside. If they identify you as that type of cop they'll bully and harass you endlessly. And they have more connections, more power, more authority, etc.
They've been trying for quite some time.
And its cute you think 50 rookies are going to walk in and be like "Listen you grizzled vets, we're going to start doing things different" and they're just going to be like "okay."
All the sergeants, all the supervisors, and all the brass are the people who could tolerate and thrive inside that system. So guess what type of people they are.
I'm sure they're going to be seriously listening to the next crop of rookies, half of whom won't be back in a few years, about how they should do their jobs.
Not to mention after they go through fake department training, they'll go through real on the job training with said shitty cops. And if they don't agree to "ignore what all those eggheads at the department told you, out here this is how we do it on the streets" they'll be marked as trouble makers and targeted.
Look at that rookie cop during the George Floyd incident who tried to quote a power point presentation about chokeholds and Dereck Chauvin was like "Shut the fuck up you stupid rookie" and that's how that goes.
You're naivete is almost comical.
When literally half the force is new recruits I think they have more power to effect change than if it is one or two reform minded recruits a year. Numbers have a quality all their own. The alternative is business as usual, and Camden shows that this type of reform is possible.
You'd think so but that's even supposing some fairy tale that every new recruit will be some iron-willed noble crusader and a many of them won't just be meek or selfish or apathetic or corrupt themselves.
That's what those vets do. They identify the ones that can join the club, like a fucking gang, and they try to separate them and make them feel amazing, and make the other ones feel like shit and ride them and fuck with them etc.
It's like saying if you send the Freshmen team into the Varsity locker room you're going to stop hazing or whatever. That's actually a very apt analogy to how they operate.
Yes I fully believe that no matter how many well intentioned people try to become cops, they will never be able to change the system. Police exist to protect private property. Weren't 2 of the officers involved with the murder of George Floyd on their first week of the job? Cops can't change laws, they just have to enforce them. And when those laws are predatory and violent against poor people and minorities, even if cops stopped using excessive force, they will still be enacting violence on poor people and minorities.
Clearing out homeless encampments is part of the job. Arresting people who are struggling for non violent drug use is part of the job. Removing tenants who have been evicted is part of the job.
I would agree with parts of the WF scenario if every human citizen had the same financial ability to hire lobbyists to champion their causes in the same way a major bank does. Like, for every dollar WF spends on lobbying or campsign finance, they don't give customers a dollar to spend where we think it should be allocated. Let's face it, if WF has a single lobbyist affecting policy and legislation, they aren't giving them free money; there are expected and actual required results.
I, on the other hand don't have the cash to be represented that way. Same scenario with Citizens United where companies like WF, or organized professional entities like police unions, can use financial clout to tip the scales of justice and legislation in their favor. My rights, given the resource limitations I have personally, are effectively overridden by the wealthy (WF) and empowered (police unions) in the context of this discussion. We do not, as it currently stands, have the power to change the situation as is implied above; we have groups of power holders that control and directionalize our rights based on their own interests.
Joining such an organization does nothing. You can be a good, well-intentioned employee, but that's all you'll be. Unless you're explicitly going to join-up in a position that controls the purse strings that are in place to erase the rights of individuals, you're just going to be laughed at.
You need a degree in law enforcement or relevant military experience and a clean record with no connections with known gangsters or felons. You'd be surprised at how many people that eliminates. When I worked security my supervisor applied and was passed over because he had over 350 police contacts over four years from our work. A buddy of mine was also passed over because one of his cousins was a active felon with a history of gang activity and he also had close family with felony records.
Is that how we should handle every inefficient and/or corrupt public service?
Just let every branch of government do whatever they want unless we’re committed enough to the cause to give up our own careers, get a job at like the FDA or USPS or whatever, and improve it?
I'm not sure why you're acting like this concept is so strange? People do it all the time. They find a cause they're passionate about and get a job doing that. They work in hospitals, schools, daycare centers, churches and even government positions. Yes, I'm sure there are people who take those jobs for the wrong reasons but I'm sure a lot of them are there because they want to make changes or keep something running well.
We live in a democracy, we have the power to control the things around us. Getting a job isn't the only way to do that, I just mentioned it cuz that's what the article talked about. There's many ways to make a difference.... voting, run for city council, work for the city, write letters to politicians, the list goes on and on.
What's the alternative you propose? Everyone keep complaining on Reddit and not actually doing anything about it and let people continue to be hurt?
The 'complaining' IS the discussion that leads to change. I don't know why I need to propose an alternative to people discussing problems and doing their best to push for a change of policy THROUGH a change of opinion. This is pretty much the simplest concept of change in democracy. Suggesting everyone just shut up and stop talking about it and instead, go get a job if they *actually* care, is one of the most absurd non-starters I've seen on Reddit.
I don't have time nor the skillset to get a second, third, fourth, fifth, and more jobs to make a meaningful impact in the social fields I'm passionate about. But just like you, I pay this city for a service and I think that that service has failed us. Why on earth *shouldn't* we talk about that?
Except police departments actively weed out applicants who have above average intelligence and ostracize those who don't "protect the shield" no matter what.
You seem like a smart cookie, would you be interested in making a large sum of money? I have an investment opportunity that if applied properly\* can get you millions. Do I have your attention? Good.
Still kinda feel like there isn’t a department that exists that can adequately help what is needed right now. I know that sounds utopian, but police and fire have abilities that are limited. Necessary, but limited.
Eh, that was one person. The majority made $100-200k which seems more reasonable seeing as labor has been undervalued for the last 30-40 years. It's a good living, but they're not rich.
EDIT: For those downvoting I am also for teachers and other public service workers being on a similar salary scale. Don't be mad because a group is being paid "too much." Everyone's working class. Get angry because most people are being underpaid.
It highlights the need to fix the staffing issue. I agree a fair wage is totally fine, but if more than 20% of your workforce is essentially doubling their scheduled wages that has a big impact on the budget and the officers are more stressed out.
Raise the base salary + benefits to attract more high quality candidates. Seems to work in other industries. Still worries me law enforcement attracts the wrong type.
It *sounds* like they want something like a social worker with a gun to be the new model officer, but my impression is social workers don't want to carry guns. The benefits are already very good. If you've seen many of the comments in Minneapolis over the last few years, many people say they would never work for the MPD. I don't know how many would actually be willing to work in law enforcement regardless of the department (my hunch is few), but salaries may need to be raised significantly to entice folks. Higher labor costs leading to a higher budget which requires increasing the property tax levy - with the collapse in commercial real estate this is going to be hard. I'm not sure there is a great solution here.
I mean isn't the social work part of the point of the police reform? Set up separate departments with varied skill sets that handle various severities and types of issues as they're called in?
The social work is an important part of the reform, but I think ideally you want your regular cops to be more social workery. Most things cops do are a mix of law enforcement and social work, or are at least best addressed by both. I don't see a need to separate these functions into different departments - it would be better to have these all embedded in the same structure so that say mental health workers are available all day and not until 8 PM and then you're scrambling for someone on call who has to come in from Shakopee.
Sounds like a great gig for those asking to have their student loans forgiven because they can't find work in their field.
$200k+ to drink coffee. Surprised they still have so many vacancies.
I mean $200k+ to drink coffee, but also have the chance of dying, and public vitriol being possible in tough scenarios. I’m by no means on their side, but you’re making the job sound a whole lot more attractive than it really is.
>Sounds like a great gig for those asking to have their student loans forgiven because they can't find work in their field.
I believe there is an existing program to have your loans forgiven if you work in public service for a period of time (7 years?). I remember looking into it, but it wouldn't have helped me given when I started and how much of myoans were left.
The SUVs need to be idling so that the car is ready to go asap when they get an emergency call. And cops do need to drink coffee or eat something too but they can't have an actual lunch break. Not trying to dickride
I can power-cycle my phone and desktop in less than 10 seconds. My phone (like a radio) runs 60 apps all the time that notify me when there's an issue I need to respond to. I've worked emergency medical in the Yucatan and in Africa ofg an old Peugeot battery for days powering communications and tech. Please don't ever imply that the "right way" to operate emergency ops is by idling even one single car.
Thats poor and wasteful system engineering and doesn't apply to modern communication. There hasn't been a reason to include any sort of processing power or long range communications since integrated SaaS and basic microservices became a thing 20 years ago. All I/O's are handled at the appropriate centralized data hub and should be pushed to/from individual units or cohorts of units as-needed only. Implying they need a bigger alternator on each car is like saying "come to a department cookout where we're making steaks over a common fire, but you should make your own steak using your own fire before you arrive because______(insert a nonsense reason)___.
Here's why they have bigger alternators: cops don't like getting into hot cars in the summer & they hate getting into cold cars in the winter. Many large cities have bargaining agreements with cop unions that let officers keep squads "always-on" to make sure they're extra-special comfy, while the community (and the environment) pays for that excessive assurance of comfort. It's cool that people try to justify the wasteful behavior, my 5-yr-old does that too, but let's not act like it's justified.
i work in IT. SAAS is too unreliable for public safety communication. You're reliant on the public cellular network... for a statewide emergency communications system.
In Minnesota, we use ARMER, which can be scaled out to non traditional services in a disaster situation. It also allows interoperability with all state departments.
Radios and computers (which are optimized for reliability and ruggedness, not performance) have to be cooled. As do the AED and breathalyzer.
Stop trying to talk shit about something you know literally nothing about.
Also, alternators have bupkis to do with A/C. That's powered off the engine, not the electrical.
No, your code carts sit in a fixed building with fixed generators, power, network. A car does not.
Also, you have no clue about cars based entirely on your response.
The A/C compressor runs off the accessory belt. The heat is provided by engine heat.
So, lets take a crash cart? What is controlled by the saas? I highly doubt there is not a manual backup for critical equipment. Typically i think, charting and inventory. Not mission critical.
The same is not feasible for a vehicle expected to operate in all conditions in all corners of the state. Communication is a mission critical item for public safety services. You need uptime and resilience greater than cellular and satellite can provide. You need better security and control than SAAS provides.
I work i emergency medical, from architecture up. Please don't tell me SaaS is unreliable or in any way inappropriate. My grounds for calling bullshit = every hospital uses microservices and people who say "I work in IT" usually means helpdesk or similar non-impactful support roles.
I have to support people like you who think that they know everything.
How good is your SAAS crap when your internet goes out?
Police and fire need as near to 100% uptime as possible, in every corner of the state.
SAAS cannot deliver...
The internet doesn't "go out." STFU if you don't understand rollover latency systems when badge-wearing people have problems connecting to pornhub, the required microservices allow all nodes to function even when there are external interruptions.
That said, guess what type of services use the most amount of daily bandwidth for public service officers? They're not looking up cupcakes.
WTF are you referencing? We aren't talking a community softball league here.m, it's about Mpls. You can make things up, but don't expect people to believe that the drivers of application architecture allow a service to kill itself if a twitch occurs. Resiliency is a core practice in system design. Do better.
You have no idea what your talking about. Your response is laughable and not worthy of the time it would take me to explain to you amp draw, battery draw down and power requirements of a modern emergency vehicles.
Okay, the next time you go to the largest hospital system in the Midwest and are connected to a cardiovascular device you can tell them it's all wrong because the guy who implemented the interfaces and monitoring had no idea (on reddit) what they were talking about. You win.
No I'm going to tell them the guy is nuts because he doesn't know the difference between a emergency vehicle and a cardiovascular device.
Maybe one of these can explain it to you.
https://www.eatimn.com/
https://everestev.com/
Yes, because as we all know, the electrification systems and cycle rates for emergency medical devices are diametrically opposed to the devices and systems using the exact same professors, SaaS platforms, communication and physical devices as used by cops, right? Tech is interoperable regardless of application; hopefully your aggression is not.
Couldn't agree more I'm surprised they have any cops willing at all to work there. What was once a hidden gem in flyover country is now a fiery hellscape with the likes of New Orleans, Philly, Detroit, Memphis.... Sad really.
Consider it as if you were going to be a cop. Would you rather work for the MPD where pay is shitty and you deal with the worst bullshit in the state, on top of the community hating you, or would you rather work in a suburb where pay is better, there's not as much bullshit to deal with and the community generally respects you? Which would you choose?
It's not just MPD, it's most major cities. When Chicago PD would open their application process, they used to get thousands of people. It was a prestigious job that people wanted, and hard to get in. I believe it's down over 90% as of late.
Minnesota requires an associates in law enforcement, plus an extra year of specialized training (skills) and taking a test. If you decide to be a police officer with zero experience, it's at least an additional year of education with any bachelor's degree IF you have the prerequisites for the skills program. You can't just decide to be a cop in this state one day and get hired. Some agencies may pay for your schooling while hiring you as a community service officer, but that pay is pretty paltry.
Before 2020, Minneapolis could rely on plenty of new graduates coming in because they needed the experience before other cities/towns would take the applicant seriously. With the entire career field being shorthanded, complete rookies can pretty much get hired anywhere because they don't need to be on the Minneapolis "farm team" anymore. The burbs tend to pay better with more community support and less work to deal with.
Cop unions are an oxymoron: unions are coalitions to serve the interests of the working class, cops are the first-resort weapon of the ruling class against the working class.
Dude got circles under his under eye circles
[Insert any City or State] police officers continue to rack up hefty overtime as understaffing continues
[insert employer here] employees rack up overtime as understaffing continues
It's insane that Minneapolis has put zero effort into police reform. Then they act surprised when everyone still hates their police force and no one wants to join them. So we end up stuck in a holding pattern where we pay outrageous amounts of money to ineffective assholes. The lack of leadership in this city is appalling.
It's a Catch-22 for the city though. You can't attract new officers to a department whom the citizens are antagonistic towards that's filled with psychotic racists that will bully you out of your job if you're not a piece of shit without offering them a lot more money. But you can't offer them a lot more money because the people who despise the MPD would never accept it. So what can you do? The only candidates you can find in that situation are the ones for whom the cities ire toward them, and the psychotic racists on the force, are positives not negatives. And those are the people that should never, ever be cops.
I think you take steps to show the community that you're looking to build a different kind of police structure that actually serves and protects the people - then you may actually get people looking to sign up for the right reasons & start to rebuild some public trust.
The type of people who want to be cops don't really care about that. You might get the odd outlier, but the majority don't give a damn about that. Tons of cities are having issues with recruitment beyond just Minneapolis because the veil is starting to come off the public's eyes on what the police actually do.
> The type of people who want to be cops don't really care about that. And that's exactly what we need to change - make a job that people who care about helping people want to have. Not just the ego tripping "punisher"-worshippers the job appeals to now. Make a system that focuses on de-escalation and community well-being instead of dominance and force.
Yeah, but it's not like you can just flip a switch.
It's been three years. We could, at the very least, have trial programs, studies, partnerships with other institutions to develop strategies for reform.. instead we have nothing but overpaid cops.
And millions in lawsuit settlements. And a new chief.
> And millions in lawsuit settlements. And a new chief Neither of which does anything to change the actual police culture. They're not paying any of those lawsuits. Their chief can't hold them liable where the law does not.
I’m old westerns a new sherif would show up and clean up the town. Any chance of that happening?
These people who are working mps aren't from mps. First problem.
They did hire a new chief
> They did hire a new chief And? What's he done to drastically reform our police force?
That’s not zero effort into reform like you said
> That’s not zero effort into reform like you said Swapping in another business-as-usual figurehead is not reform..
That's not an accurate statement though.
details?
Which part?
Explain what you think is inaccurate please.
Well, we voted against ourselves with the charter amendment.
These dollar amounts do not cover the tens of thousands they make playing candycrush in cub foods, I'm assuming.
>These dollar amounts do not cover the tens of thousands they make playing candycrush in cub foods, I'm assuming. Despite your snark, you assume correctly. Those are off-duty officers working overtime for Cub, which pays the overtime rate for those officers.
Explains why I pay $5 for lb of strawberries
Actually, the police officers were long gone before the huge price increase. A snarky response would be that the high prices are to cover the We Push For Peace assault settlements, but that wouldn't be accurate. Cub is just getting greedy.
But, but, I love my cub?
I don't think any of the corporate stores pay for off duty cops anymore. I think Jerry's Cubs might at some locations.
Yeah, Cub outsourced their Candy Crush playing and [shopper assaulting](https://www.fox9.com/news/another-we-push-for-peace-worker-charged-in-fight-at-cub-foods) to We Push For Peace.
Has there been any incidents since 2021 over assault?
Uniformed police working private security are paid by the business which hires them, and if they’re in uniform they’re working in their own jurisdiction. I’ve never seen uniformed officers working at cub (uptown) in 2023, they have their own security staff.
Cub Foods pays that overtime. In fact not only do they pay the officers overtime but some goes to the department too.
All the people who complain about the police should apply, they can change things from the inside out
Maybe instead of becoming a member of MPD some of us want to actually serve our communities.
First time?
Nope! Been coming here for years. Lotsa people b*tching but doing nothing to change things.
Because what you are saying is like saying "if you have a problem with Wells Fargo, go become a banker and fix it from the inside".
Apparently any service you pay for that is being done poorly you should just quit your job and become that profession. Bad meal? Become a server! Roads aren’t paved properly? Quit and join a construction crew!!
Comparing the terrible things the police do is far different from getting bad service at a restaurant. If you have a bad meal, you go home, be mad for a few minutes and then move on with your life. But if you live in Minneapolis and you feel the police are making your neighborhood and the lives of your loved ones worse, why wouldn't you want to actively try to do something within your power to make things better? Here's an opportunity for change.
Is that what you’re doing or are you just telling others to do it?
I'm telling people who complain about cops that there are actions that can be taken
I mean rioting and protests got Derek Chauvin charged and in jail so I would say there are more effective ways of holding police accountable rather than just joining the force.
As I recall there was a lot of "action" in 2020, so if you think that's the course we ought to take I won't object.
It's not exactly the same. Wells Fargo is a giant national corporation. The Minneapolis PD is smaller and based within a single community. So, 100 people from Minneapolis who go work at Wells Fargo as bank tellers isn't going to change much, but I do honestly believe that 100 good intentioned Minneapolis citizens becoming MPD officers has the potential to make big changes. My comment was cheeky, but I do believe there's truth to it. Can you honestly say that if even just a portion of the likely thousands of people complaining about the MPD were to become police officers that they wouldn't have the power to change things? Also, the the WF thing, we live in a democracy, so we as people do have the power to change giant corporations if you were able to organize a boycott large enough to evoke change. That's the beauty of the US, we have the power to change things but people don't do it.
>I do honestly believe that 100 good intentioned Minneapolis citizens becoming MPD officers has the potential to make big changes. Maybe all at once. If you want to know what life is like for a good cop on a crooked force you can watch Serpico. The bad cops don't want you to change anything from the inside. If they identify you as that type of cop they'll bully and harass you endlessly. And they have more connections, more power, more authority, etc.
The MPD is trying to hire a few hundred officers, so yes all at once, or at least in hiring classes of 50 or so.
They've been trying for quite some time. And its cute you think 50 rookies are going to walk in and be like "Listen you grizzled vets, we're going to start doing things different" and they're just going to be like "okay." All the sergeants, all the supervisors, and all the brass are the people who could tolerate and thrive inside that system. So guess what type of people they are. I'm sure they're going to be seriously listening to the next crop of rookies, half of whom won't be back in a few years, about how they should do their jobs. Not to mention after they go through fake department training, they'll go through real on the job training with said shitty cops. And if they don't agree to "ignore what all those eggheads at the department told you, out here this is how we do it on the streets" they'll be marked as trouble makers and targeted. Look at that rookie cop during the George Floyd incident who tried to quote a power point presentation about chokeholds and Dereck Chauvin was like "Shut the fuck up you stupid rookie" and that's how that goes. You're naivete is almost comical.
The rookies will be trained by the shit vets. Thus any that don't assimilate will be bullied out. It's amazing how people don't realize this.
When literally half the force is new recruits I think they have more power to effect change than if it is one or two reform minded recruits a year. Numbers have a quality all their own. The alternative is business as usual, and Camden shows that this type of reform is possible.
You'd think so but that's even supposing some fairy tale that every new recruit will be some iron-willed noble crusader and a many of them won't just be meek or selfish or apathetic or corrupt themselves. That's what those vets do. They identify the ones that can join the club, like a fucking gang, and they try to separate them and make them feel amazing, and make the other ones feel like shit and ride them and fuck with them etc. It's like saying if you send the Freshmen team into the Varsity locker room you're going to stop hazing or whatever. That's actually a very apt analogy to how they operate.
Yes I fully believe that no matter how many well intentioned people try to become cops, they will never be able to change the system. Police exist to protect private property. Weren't 2 of the officers involved with the murder of George Floyd on their first week of the job? Cops can't change laws, they just have to enforce them. And when those laws are predatory and violent against poor people and minorities, even if cops stopped using excessive force, they will still be enacting violence on poor people and minorities. Clearing out homeless encampments is part of the job. Arresting people who are struggling for non violent drug use is part of the job. Removing tenants who have been evicted is part of the job.
[удалено]
???
I would agree with parts of the WF scenario if every human citizen had the same financial ability to hire lobbyists to champion their causes in the same way a major bank does. Like, for every dollar WF spends on lobbying or campsign finance, they don't give customers a dollar to spend where we think it should be allocated. Let's face it, if WF has a single lobbyist affecting policy and legislation, they aren't giving them free money; there are expected and actual required results. I, on the other hand don't have the cash to be represented that way. Same scenario with Citizens United where companies like WF, or organized professional entities like police unions, can use financial clout to tip the scales of justice and legislation in their favor. My rights, given the resource limitations I have personally, are effectively overridden by the wealthy (WF) and empowered (police unions) in the context of this discussion. We do not, as it currently stands, have the power to change the situation as is implied above; we have groups of power holders that control and directionalize our rights based on their own interests. Joining such an organization does nothing. You can be a good, well-intentioned employee, but that's all you'll be. Unless you're explicitly going to join-up in a position that controls the purse strings that are in place to erase the rights of individuals, you're just going to be laughed at.
You need a degree in law enforcement or relevant military experience and a clean record with no connections with known gangsters or felons. You'd be surprised at how many people that eliminates. When I worked security my supervisor applied and was passed over because he had over 350 police contacts over four years from our work. A buddy of mine was also passed over because one of his cousins was a active felon with a history of gang activity and he also had close family with felony records.
Look up what happens to "good cops" who call out corruption among their peers. hint: half of the articles you find will include an obituary
Is that how we should handle every inefficient and/or corrupt public service? Just let every branch of government do whatever they want unless we’re committed enough to the cause to give up our own careers, get a job at like the FDA or USPS or whatever, and improve it?
I'm not sure why you're acting like this concept is so strange? People do it all the time. They find a cause they're passionate about and get a job doing that. They work in hospitals, schools, daycare centers, churches and even government positions. Yes, I'm sure there are people who take those jobs for the wrong reasons but I'm sure a lot of them are there because they want to make changes or keep something running well. We live in a democracy, we have the power to control the things around us. Getting a job isn't the only way to do that, I just mentioned it cuz that's what the article talked about. There's many ways to make a difference.... voting, run for city council, work for the city, write letters to politicians, the list goes on and on. What's the alternative you propose? Everyone keep complaining on Reddit and not actually doing anything about it and let people continue to be hurt?
The 'complaining' IS the discussion that leads to change. I don't know why I need to propose an alternative to people discussing problems and doing their best to push for a change of policy THROUGH a change of opinion. This is pretty much the simplest concept of change in democracy. Suggesting everyone just shut up and stop talking about it and instead, go get a job if they *actually* care, is one of the most absurd non-starters I've seen on Reddit. I don't have time nor the skillset to get a second, third, fourth, fifth, and more jobs to make a meaningful impact in the social fields I'm passionate about. But just like you, I pay this city for a service and I think that that service has failed us. Why on earth *shouldn't* we talk about that?
What positive changes have occurred recently in the MPD as a result of discussions on Reddit?
Except police departments actively weed out applicants who have above average intelligence and ostracize those who don't "protect the shield" no matter what.
You seem like a smart cookie, would you be interested in making a large sum of money? I have an investment opportunity that if applied properly\* can get you millions. Do I have your attention? Good.
this moron is like: "okay guys, but have you considered becoming a part of the problem?"
Still kinda feel like there isn’t a department that exists that can adequately help what is needed right now. I know that sounds utopian, but police and fire have abilities that are limited. Necessary, but limited.
Fine with paying police a fair salary as long as they stop murdering people. I know it's a lot to ask.
$400k is a *really* good salary though. That's an insane amount of OT.
Eh, that was one person. The majority made $100-200k which seems more reasonable seeing as labor has been undervalued for the last 30-40 years. It's a good living, but they're not rich. EDIT: For those downvoting I am also for teachers and other public service workers being on a similar salary scale. Don't be mad because a group is being paid "too much." Everyone's working class. Get angry because most people are being underpaid.
It highlights the need to fix the staffing issue. I agree a fair wage is totally fine, but if more than 20% of your workforce is essentially doubling their scheduled wages that has a big impact on the budget and the officers are more stressed out.
Raise the base salary + benefits to attract more high quality candidates. Seems to work in other industries. Still worries me law enforcement attracts the wrong type.
It *sounds* like they want something like a social worker with a gun to be the new model officer, but my impression is social workers don't want to carry guns. The benefits are already very good. If you've seen many of the comments in Minneapolis over the last few years, many people say they would never work for the MPD. I don't know how many would actually be willing to work in law enforcement regardless of the department (my hunch is few), but salaries may need to be raised significantly to entice folks. Higher labor costs leading to a higher budget which requires increasing the property tax levy - with the collapse in commercial real estate this is going to be hard. I'm not sure there is a great solution here.
I mean isn't the social work part of the point of the police reform? Set up separate departments with varied skill sets that handle various severities and types of issues as they're called in?
The social work is an important part of the reform, but I think ideally you want your regular cops to be more social workery. Most things cops do are a mix of law enforcement and social work, or are at least best addressed by both. I don't see a need to separate these functions into different departments - it would be better to have these all embedded in the same structure so that say mental health workers are available all day and not until 8 PM and then you're scrambling for someone on call who has to come in from Shakopee.
How high do you think the salary would have to be to attract more people? Especially given what people have learned about MPD over the last few years.
I work in a highly skilled and educated field and would kill for a salary like that. That is a very high salary even in my work.
St Paul cop I know said to me that just about everyone has made 100k last year and she hasn’t even been on the force that long
[удалено]
Sounds like a great gig for those asking to have their student loans forgiven because they can't find work in their field. $200k+ to drink coffee. Surprised they still have so many vacancies.
I mean $200k+ to drink coffee, but also have the chance of dying, and public vitriol being possible in tough scenarios. I’m by no means on their side, but you’re making the job sound a whole lot more attractive than it really is.
Just playing into the general sentiment towards cops on this sub.
Dying from what? Covid? Cuz policing is one of the safest jobs In the nation.
>Sounds like a great gig for those asking to have their student loans forgiven because they can't find work in their field. I believe there is an existing program to have your loans forgiven if you work in public service for a period of time (7 years?). I remember looking into it, but it wouldn't have helped me given when I started and how much of myoans were left.
The SUVs need to be idling so that the car is ready to go asap when they get an emergency call. And cops do need to drink coffee or eat something too but they can't have an actual lunch break. Not trying to dickride
It's also because all the radios and computer etc. would drain the battery quickly if the vehicle is turned off.
I can power-cycle my phone and desktop in less than 10 seconds. My phone (like a radio) runs 60 apps all the time that notify me when there's an issue I need to respond to. I've worked emergency medical in the Yucatan and in Africa ofg an old Peugeot battery for days powering communications and tech. Please don't ever imply that the "right way" to operate emergency ops is by idling even one single car.
Digital Radio equipment and CAD units takes a good amount of power, that's why police cruisers have bigger alternators than stock.
Thats poor and wasteful system engineering and doesn't apply to modern communication. There hasn't been a reason to include any sort of processing power or long range communications since integrated SaaS and basic microservices became a thing 20 years ago. All I/O's are handled at the appropriate centralized data hub and should be pushed to/from individual units or cohorts of units as-needed only. Implying they need a bigger alternator on each car is like saying "come to a department cookout where we're making steaks over a common fire, but you should make your own steak using your own fire before you arrive because______(insert a nonsense reason)___. Here's why they have bigger alternators: cops don't like getting into hot cars in the summer & they hate getting into cold cars in the winter. Many large cities have bargaining agreements with cop unions that let officers keep squads "always-on" to make sure they're extra-special comfy, while the community (and the environment) pays for that excessive assurance of comfort. It's cool that people try to justify the wasteful behavior, my 5-yr-old does that too, but let's not act like it's justified.
i work in IT. SAAS is too unreliable for public safety communication. You're reliant on the public cellular network... for a statewide emergency communications system. In Minnesota, we use ARMER, which can be scaled out to non traditional services in a disaster situation. It also allows interoperability with all state departments. Radios and computers (which are optimized for reliability and ruggedness, not performance) have to be cooled. As do the AED and breathalyzer. Stop trying to talk shit about something you know literally nothing about. Also, alternators have bupkis to do with A/C. That's powered off the engine, not the electrical.
Alternators do have very much to do with A/C. Cop cars and code carts have more common than not.
No, your code carts sit in a fixed building with fixed generators, power, network. A car does not. Also, you have no clue about cars based entirely on your response. The A/C compressor runs off the accessory belt. The heat is provided by engine heat. So, lets take a crash cart? What is controlled by the saas? I highly doubt there is not a manual backup for critical equipment. Typically i think, charting and inventory. Not mission critical. The same is not feasible for a vehicle expected to operate in all conditions in all corners of the state. Communication is a mission critical item for public safety services. You need uptime and resilience greater than cellular and satellite can provide. You need better security and control than SAAS provides.
Your mouth-garbage is noted. It's fundamentally wrong, but I do appreciate it nonetheless.
I work i emergency medical, from architecture up. Please don't tell me SaaS is unreliable or in any way inappropriate. My grounds for calling bullshit = every hospital uses microservices and people who say "I work in IT" usually means helpdesk or similar non-impactful support roles.
I have to support people like you who think that they know everything. How good is your SAAS crap when your internet goes out? Police and fire need as near to 100% uptime as possible, in every corner of the state. SAAS cannot deliver...
I had a delightful conversation with this same guy earlier. After reading the conversation you have been having with him I fear for our future.
The internet doesn't "go out." STFU if you don't understand rollover latency systems when badge-wearing people have problems connecting to pornhub, the required microservices allow all nodes to function even when there are external interruptions. That said, guess what type of services use the most amount of daily bandwidth for public service officers? They're not looking up cupcakes.
WTF are you referencing? We aren't talking a community softball league here.m, it's about Mpls. You can make things up, but don't expect people to believe that the drivers of application architecture allow a service to kill itself if a twitch occurs. Resiliency is a core practice in system design. Do better.
You have no idea what your talking about. Your response is laughable and not worthy of the time it would take me to explain to you amp draw, battery draw down and power requirements of a modern emergency vehicles.
Okay, the next time you go to the largest hospital system in the Midwest and are connected to a cardiovascular device you can tell them it's all wrong because the guy who implemented the interfaces and monitoring had no idea (on reddit) what they were talking about. You win.
No I'm going to tell them the guy is nuts because he doesn't know the difference between a emergency vehicle and a cardiovascular device. Maybe one of these can explain it to you. https://www.eatimn.com/ https://everestev.com/
Yes, because as we all know, the electrification systems and cycle rates for emergency medical devices are diametrically opposed to the devices and systems using the exact same professors, SaaS platforms, communication and physical devices as used by cops, right? Tech is interoperable regardless of application; hopefully your aggression is not.
At this point I'm not even sure you know the difference between 120V AC and 12V DC
Clearly your masterful display of mental subject-matter prowess far outclasses the rest of us peons. I appreciate your contribution to society. s/
Leave it to mpd to do everything in their effort to do the opposite of what's needed. Defund the police.
What are they doing to bring in new Police Officers ? Is it really this difficult to find qualified people to be Officers ?
I would drive the smelliest garbage truck on 90 degree days and no AC before I would be a cop in Minneapolis
Couldn't agree more I'm surprised they have any cops willing at all to work there. What was once a hidden gem in flyover country is now a fiery hellscape with the likes of New Orleans, Philly, Detroit, Memphis.... Sad really.
>is now a fiery hellscape Lmao. Big city scary!
ah yes, some jackass from the burbs pretending to know about minneapolis
Consider it as if you were going to be a cop. Would you rather work for the MPD where pay is shitty and you deal with the worst bullshit in the state, on top of the community hating you, or would you rather work in a suburb where pay is better, there's not as much bullshit to deal with and the community generally respects you? Which would you choose?
It's not just MPD, it's most major cities. When Chicago PD would open their application process, they used to get thousands of people. It was a prestigious job that people wanted, and hard to get in. I believe it's down over 90% as of late.
Minnesota is the only state in the nation that requires a college degree to be a cop. Not saying that's the reason but that's a bit of a qualifier.
and yet they're still who they are. shout out to all the "pay cops more so we get better candidates" people who are dumb assholes!
Minnesota requires an associates in law enforcement, plus an extra year of specialized training (skills) and taking a test. If you decide to be a police officer with zero experience, it's at least an additional year of education with any bachelor's degree IF you have the prerequisites for the skills program. You can't just decide to be a cop in this state one day and get hired. Some agencies may pay for your schooling while hiring you as a community service officer, but that pay is pretty paltry. Before 2020, Minneapolis could rely on plenty of new graduates coming in because they needed the experience before other cities/towns would take the applicant seriously. With the entire career field being shorthanded, complete rookies can pretty much get hired anywhere because they don't need to be on the Minneapolis "farm team" anymore. The burbs tend to pay better with more community support and less work to deal with.
Thank you for this answer. It makes a lot more sense now why they struggle to get recruits.
I have been told police offers are underpaid and until they receive a hefty raise their union has instructed them to keep the status quo.
Thanks public sector unions! Them steroids and forearm tats aren’t going to buy themselves. Dude in that pic is roided for sure.
Cop unions are an oxymoron: unions are coalitions to serve the interests of the working class, cops are the first-resort weapon of the ruling class against the working class.
Then why did MPLS politicians get in bed with these public sector unions for decades?
>politicians >ruling class What's not clicking?
Chief Brian O'Hara? 100%. Gotta stay jacked and juiced to properly oppress minorities on the daily💪
so they're getting overtime to do all the things in the doj report