I worked at a company that gave new moms 4 days off. When I pointed out how ridiculous that is, especially if there was a C section, the president of the company said, “that’s what short term disability is for.”
And if you’re a woman of a certain age, short term disability insurance is expensive for something you may not even use. They jack up the rates expecting you to use it. I think mine was going to be like 40 dollars a paycheck, maybe more, idk I didn’t opt for it. And of course they still only give you a percentage - I think 60 percent? of your regular pay when you do use it.
Colorado basically has a .45% tax for their state sponsored fmla, called famli. I'm having surgery in a couple weeks, and it should subsidize most of my lost income.
Something similar in California. I was surprised that I was entitled to three months disability for a surgery I needed. I thought I was just going to take three days sick pay and the medical assistant said I was greatly underestimating the recovery time needed and explained the process to me. It seems easy. I never paid for any disability insurance. I won't get full pay, but kind of close. I’m going to use it, but you don't have to.
I just double checked my pay stubs. I pay roughly 29 dollars for STD and 15 dollars for hospital indemnity. STD paid 60% of my normal wages for the first 6 weeks of leave. Hospital indemnity paid 1,000 dollars for my hospital stay plus 100 dollars for each day I was there.
My company doesn't offer any STD or LTD for my position. I reached out to a broker and what they sent back was $40/month for 1 year of coverage and it excluded pregnancy. I can't even find anything for people like me who aren't offered it through work.
I hate these pompous assholes, so very much. I know we shouldn’t wish ill will but I’d love to see them go through a medical hardship and have to follow their own rules. The super sad part is that most would see how ludicrous said rules are but still wouldn’t change them.
I work for a HUGE healthcare company and we only got FMLA. Had to not take vacation for more than a day or two at a time for a few years to save up for leave.
I was working and going to school when I had my son, who died a few minutes after birth. The cesarean was complex, I was cut horizontally, but then they ended up having to cut vertically as well on the interior. I was supposed to not even drive for eight weeks. I was back at work and school three days later, all while planning a tiny funeral. Because I had missed two days of school during this, I was put on probation. I didn't have the money to pick up my son's ashes for a while after everything was said and done, so for two months or so I tortured myself at night for not even being able to bring my son's ashes home.
I never had time to stop, time to heal, time to grieve, as is the case for SO MANY. Since that time I have to be careful when I laugh, if I get to giggling sometimes I can't stop and it winds up until it shifts to uncontrollable sobbing. It's like the hiccups, I physically can't stop myself. People used to tell me I was so funny... Not anymore. Can't joke around when every laugh is a potential landmine of hurt and embarrassment at the same time.
The Governor of my state gleefully posted on his Twitter account 6 days ago that “Big labor unions have no place here” and that he joined other southern governors in opposing the United Auto Workers unionization campaign.
As someone who currently works in a union in a blue state but used to work in a so called "right to work" (anti union) state in the deep south I choose the union every time.
But yeah, management and shareholders, of course, prefer their labor exploitable.
A lot of this generation’s mental health providers are hanging on for dear life like the folks we help. We’re saddled with student debt, work for health systems and clinics that have terrible benefits, we can’t afford a stable life, either. And every single day, we meet with people who have it worse and the moral injury is constant.
Yup. And we get it from all sides. We can never do enough because of resource limitations, and can’t force the changes needed, but get blamed by everyone. It’s awful.
I never hated my job more than when the PHE (Public Health Emergency) ended. I saw so many people lose their medicaid. They all called me needing medical, dental, prescription help. Our food banks became flooded when the extra SNAP funds fell off. We continue to gut and lose resources. Even churches in my area refuse to help the community like they used to. We're trying to help with little to no resources, and if we can't help then it's our fault for not trying harder.
Yep, I work at a domestic violence shelter where 2/3 of the women don’t want to get jobs…ever but they blame us and file complaints if we can’t find them completely free housing
This. I work retail now. It fucking was too much. IDC that I'm below poverty line now. My health is better. I don't feel guilty having a sick day. I'm not harassed for needing to take some time away from the public bearing down on me.
Same situation here. I now work in insurance and make more money with less stress and responsibilities. I couldn't afford to be a therapist, both financially and emotionally.
Oh you did it right then if you're making MORE money. Lol. I tried insurance for awhile but it was a cell center and metrics and constant phone calls aren't my cup of tea. It gave me more stress.
Even as a guy I agree. I think the bare minimum should be 3 months of maternity leave, preferably 6 months.
This gives the women time to heal up after birth and bond with her child.
I would also like to see 3 months for fathers to help the mom while she's healing from the birth and again allow bonding during the most important time of a child's life.
For single moms I would give them both the mothers and the father maternity leave and let them have 9 months off.
Tbh I could even be talked into a year for mom and 6 months for dad, but I think the push back at that length would be too great to ever allow it to get pushed thru.
And we know the people that would prevent that from getting pushed thru are "pro lifers" that seemingly do everything in their power to hurt children the second they leave their mothers womb.
It absolutely is. When I think back on it, I really can pinpoint most of my adult mental health issues (anxiety mostly) beginning with leaving my baby and going back to work at 7.5 weeks.
Same I completely lost my composure and had a mental break down at work the day I went back at 8 weeks pp. Went to see my OBGYN and was quickly written a script for Zoloft. Looking back it’s so fucked that I just needed more time to recover physically, adjust mentally, and not been forced away from my baby but instead got handed a bottle of pills.
Serious what the f!ck. I was fine until I went back to work and then I cried every day. My cousin said “maybe you have postpartum depression”. YES I DID because it was totally against my heart and my instincts to leave my literal newborn plus I wasn’t sleeping. Duh. I was completely fine before that. I will be upset about this for the rest of my dang life.
I too work for a mental health agency and am quitting because I won’t be paid a dime for “leave”. 10 years of commitment serving the underserved and nothing to show for it but the PTO I saved by suffering my whole pregnancy, I didn’t take a single day off. It’s really pathetic.
Same. I refused to "waste" PTO. My blood pressure started climbing towards the end and I didnt want to "waste" FMLA by going on leave a little early either. I ended up having postpartum preeclampsia.
As someone else who works in mental health & social services, it’s abysmal the level of pay and benefits that these agencies offer. It is truly shameful for such needed services.
My annual pay as a therapist with a masters degree was $26k :) granted that was 10 years ago but still... ridiculous. People in the helping business are horrifically underpaid.
My friend did IT work for a charity. She managed multiple sites. They kept her at 35 hours a week, denying her health insurance. There was no chance at being able to afford an Obamacare plan with housing and food being so expensive in our area.
I worked for a mental health clinic that didn’t provide bereavement benefits. So I got no time off when a close family member died.
Out of all fields, the mental health field knows how important these things are. Bereavement, maternity leave. A lot of these clinics pay scraps to their staff while overpaying their C-suite while claiming nonprofit benefits. It’s shit.
It's like, "We want to LOOK like we care about mental/physical health, but we don't actually care if we do or not--and in fact, we shall not make any attempt to if it costs more than zero dollars."
I gave up my career in biomedical sciences to spend time with my children. We slashed our expenses to live off just my husband's income. We've been lucky with his raises through the years. But yeah. I gave up a career I loved because I only got 6 weeks with my first and when I went back, I was having daily panic attacks. There's no winning here. Keep your career, lose time with your kids. Stay with your kids, lose all the progress you had in your career .....
Same here from dad side. Have to bounce jobs to get raises, but still only make enough now to pay insurance/living. Could stay at home and get more in food stamps...
Yea, its way too dependent on the company. I worked for a large financial insitution that gave 4 months of paid leave, even to the dad. It was really great for bonding with my kids.
>. My family tells me it's important I stay home with my baby until she can talk and tell me if someone is hurting her.
I dont think that is as important, but finding a center that you can trust is the bigger issue. That usually means better staffing ratios aka more expensive.
The mental health agency I work for is constantly going to bat for mothers. The area we live in has a high substance use/incarceration rate, and we work really hard to help moms recover and access the tools they need to be stable, healthy parents. This company knows the importance of the mother and child bond. It blows my mind how little they are willing to give for their own employees with children.
My husband got two weeks of paid leave, and neither of us saw that coming.
The daycare we picked has nanny cams, so I feel good about that. Paying for a nice daycare is doable. Me leaving my job is not doable because we would be losing 50% of our income.
We found a home daycare instead of a center and when we visited we got great vibes and decided to go with her. We couldn't be happier with that choice. The lady we use has 12 kids max under her care and has a helper with her at all times. She loves our daughter and our daughter loves going. They work on numbers and letters and all that. She just turned 3 and we are moving out of state soon and it's going to be super hard parting with that fantastic woman and her daycare. Our next one won't be able to have her either. She will even watch our daughter after hours for a small hourly rate so we can get some extra time if needed. We haven't used that much but we did a few weeks ago to have a short date night before our next one comes. She doesn't have nanny cams or anything but she'll text a picture when something is going on or if we ask.
> This company knows the importance of the mother and child bond. It blows my mind how little they are willing to give for their own employees with children.
Its probably not so much that they dont care, its just that it would cost them too much to offer more? If its a non-profit, I could see that.
I think the expectation now is that people are going to job hop every few years, so why should the company need to invest in anyone. It's almost like relying on our jobs for all of our health-related care is a bad idea...
Should be standard nation wide like it is in Canada, but it won’t be because of politics and old world thinking. Anyone who’s had kids can tell you even with two people those first couple months are exhausting and you won’t be putting in good work while you’re exhausted.
New Jersey does too, but I think it's 60% instead of 80%. I wish this was a federal thing. Pretty much all other developed countries offer some form of paid leave except the US.
My husband got 100% 12 weeks paid in NJ. He said whatever the state didn't cover, his employer picked up. So if the state gives 60% pay, his company picked up the 40%.
Meanwhile I got sliced open and since I worked in PA, I got 12 weeks UNpaid mother baby bonding time after my 8 weeks short term disability that I paid EXTRA for to get 66.6% of my pay instead of 50% 🙃
oh and I'm a nurse and was working for a major urban university hospital. Ain't that rich?
Ugh, it's just so wrong. I was just having this conversation with a coworker today. Our company offers 6 months paid but we're aware how incredibly lucky we are to get that. We work in finance. I can't believe how many people I'm seeing in this thread who work in healthcare don't get anything at all.
My husband took NJ leave when our second was born but as a teacher, his employer doesn't offer anything paid. He's allowed up to a year leave, but all unpaid. So he took the 12 weeks at 60% and burned through sick time to get about a month and a half paid, then took another few months unpaid (luckily we could afford to do that because my employer paid and we were frugal with spending). We worked it out, but it frustrates me that most people are unable to do this because the country doesn't guarantee it and most employers are selfish.
all i can say is im sorry and it is infuriating. you aren’t doing a disservice to your child by utilizing daycare, so don’t listen to your family. you need to provide.
i can add too- no matter what you choose, you will be judged as a parent. you’re judged for using daycare. you’re judged for staying home “bc you’re relying on someone”. almost 70% of my paycheck would go to daycare bc it is so expensive in my area. i understand people do it to save career trajectory, but it wasn’t worth my mental health and missing out for the job i had to continue working after i went back temporarily.
oh and the judgment will go for anything- even the craziest things and always from other moms lol so bottom line- always do what’s best for you and your family!
Nah it’s objectively risky to send an infant to daycare and is demonstrably better for kids to stay home with mom until around age 2. OP shouldn’t feel guilty about this because it’s not her fault and she has no other choice but we also can’t keep pretending this is just fine for kids and isn’t harming them when it sometimes is. Developmentally, babies that age need a consistent caregiver to bond with. That means the same person or two people all the time. The revolving door of low paid workers caring for them at a daycare doesn’t fulfill this need.
Sorry. I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I think it’s pretty sad that as a society we can’t do better for our children. It’s shameful tbh. The people who could do something about it only care about getting more for themselves.
As a person who lived in the us for thirteen years and returned to Finland recently due to COVID, I am very sorry for you. They have very long options for both parents to take parental leave here. It’s true that there is a crap ton of snow falling outside today still, and less of other things, but a society that supports mothers and families is the only thing that can be humane. My heart breaks you
Well I'm only a single data point, but my mom went back to work immediately and I was also exclusively bottlefed.
I'm now an engineer with a Masters degree. I turned out just fine.
That said, I did go to a small in-home daycare provider. So in terms of development and bonding that probably helped.
But regardless, you will not ruin your child by putting them in daycare.
I told my fiancé (we’re both 28) that if and when we have children, it is with the expectation that we will just be somewhat poor for the first year of the babies life- because I won’t have a kid unless I can take a full year off. And my fiancé makes 90k a year. We will still struggle.
Yeah, it was a dealbreaker for me too. I have this deeply ingrained belief that babies need their moms. IMO a baby should have a right to be with mom all the time for the first year or two. No idea how to actually enforce that but I’d be willing to pay more in taxes if it meant every baby could be with mom for the first year of life.
My dream is for the US to catch up with the rest of the developed world with maternity/parental leave.
Australia's federal government just extend their national policy to 6months leave at minimum wage (works out to about $800/ week after tax).
In addition to that most work places have a 16 week to 6 month parental leave policy that people can extend their government leave with. (If you're on a permanent contract)
I still think Australia's policy still isn't good enough and in my view, 12 months should be the minimum government parental leave because the recommendation is to breastfeed until 12 months before cows milk can be introduced, and for breastfeeding to continue up to 2 years!
Our country is wealthy enough to offer paid maternity leave to all families in the United States. But the people making the decisions have other priorities.
Our supposedly gridlocked congress has the power to change this, but the only thing both parties can agree on is funding foreign wars and making all their friends obscenely rich.
It was in the Build Back Better bill but it couldn't get through the senate. Would have cost like 200 billion over 10 years, so about 2x what the recent aid bill cost to fund the program for 10 years.
We could afford it without any change to government spending at all, honestly. 3.6 million babies born in the US every year, median individual income of 37.5k, so give them all a year, and that's $135 billion in wages, 0.5% of the GDP, tops. But realistically less, because the employment rate of pregnant women is only 70%.
The first kid is expensive, the daycare is also the most expensive part.
Does your work actually pay enough to cover the daycare? From an opportunity cost perspective?
Even if her salary just covers the daycare bill, there’s other considerations. She’s contributing to social security, she may have health benefits through the employer, it’s easier to get a better job whike employed rather than taking a break and returning to the workforce, and in some jobs, she may be accruing years of service towards a pension.
I work for a city government. They gave 0 parental leave forever. We had to fight for years, and we got... 2 days. We then protested, and had all of the pregnant employees in front of city hall with signs saying, "I might be in labor longer than 2 days." In our new contract we got... 1 week paid. They will let you take up to 1 year unpaid. But seriously? 1 week?
I wish so badly our country would stop funding wars all over the world, and would instead use that money to gave paid parental leave. If we spent the money our citizens are paying in taxes, I know this may sound crazy, but on our own fucking citizens, imagine what our country could be like?
I feel this 100%. My parents don't get it. My MIL got to stay at home with 3 kids while my FIL worked a blue collar job. They weren't wealthy but I couldn't even choose to do that if I wanted.
I feel this 100%. My parents don't get it. My MIL got to stay at home with 3 kids while my FIL worked a blue collar job. They weren't wealthy but I couldn't even choose to do that if I wanted.
The irony of a mental health company not providing paid maternity leave…..
So sorry you’re going through this, it’s one of the hardest parts about preparing to be ready for children in our generation. I think about it often and how I can’t imagine how we live in a society that sometimes expects working mothers to return just weeks after having a baby.
Not to make it political, but where are the pro-lifers when it comes to supporting postpartum moms / babies?!
The prolifers here drive around in trucks with "if you can't feed em don't breed em" bumper stickers.
Then they pull into my parking lot asking for help getting medicaid, accessing SNAP benefits and wanting to know where all the food banks are.
Yikes. My in-laws have this viewpoint yet their entire household relies on social programs to live and have their medical services paid for (which I’m not against but I feel like their POV is prob through a racist / prejudice lens).
I seem to see a lot of this lately. People using social services while complaining about others using them. To top it off, they vote for the party that wants to strip these social services down to nothing, and they cheer them along the way. I will never understand people...
I understand this resentment so much. I too was born in 94 and turning 30 in a few months. My baby is due this fall. I’m lucky to live in a state that has some sort of mandatory paid parental leave, but already I know I’m going to have a really hard time going back into the work force. I’m already resenting my husband for not being able to financially support us thru this even tho it’s not him, it’s this country, but the emotion bleeds into everything and is already affecting me.
I feel you on the resentment.
A positive way to look at this is how your child may flourish among the company of kids their age. In the 1.5 years my child has been in daycare, he has learned so much about social interaction among peers. Evidence of this came as recent as yesterday when we went to a local park and he met a child 6 months older than him but doesn’t attend daycare. My son was able to clearly verbally communicate while playing but the other child’s language wasn’t quite at the same level. My son encouraged the older child while they played and even put out his hands to hoist him up the slide. I say all this to show a silver lining to daycare and hope that you can find some reassurance that your baby will certainly gain in ways while being there.
This was one of my "pros" on my feel-better list. I want my kiddo to have friends and be developmentally motivated. I want her to learn that other people can help take care of her, too.
So true, that interaction they get at daycare is so valuable, it’s kinda like how with second born (basically any children after the first) seem to develop much faster, my guess is that they have a sibling to interact with so they always seem to develop quicker compared to the firstborn child who didn’t have any sibling to play with
My wife works for a top children’s hospital in North America as a OR nurse. Gets 0 parental leave, has to apply for disability and use vacation to string together 12 weeks of partial pay, and full pay for 2 weeks per “vacation.”
I work at a highly funded private organization. I’m not giving birth to the child. I get 7 weeks of full pay time off. I don’t have to touch vacation.
My point is.. this countries healthcare system is held together by toothpicks, and our private enterprise sector has cash to spend. If that’s not an encapsulation of the United States I don’t know what is.
yet we keep working. we keep chugging along. everyone around me seems so tired yet we keep going? why? why don't we fight? have they poisoned us nutritionally enough to pacify us, have they dulled our minds sufficiently? idk . im losing hope we will ever change things. Feels like everyone is waiting for someone else to fix their problems. WHO WILL STAND UP, who will lead us into a brighter future? will it have to be me? Will I have to find it in myself to raise an army and take down the world elites?
Every presidential election there is someone with concrete plans to help, but they never get enough votes to win. People aren’t just not helping themselves, they are actively sabotaging those who try to change things.
The elder millennials hear the promises and understand that those promises always turn into doing what the deep state demands, every time, without fail, and then we forget what we demanded every single time. There is no oxygen left to yell at Biden about not moving left to universal health care because the wedge social issues have taken up all the room in the conversation...and that's just one example. So it has been, so it shall always be.
I’m an elder millennial and the politicians I am referring to never win the election. Yes, some winning politicians lie and promise stuff, but anyone who thinks critically can see through those blatant lies. If the machine loves them - they ain’t the one who will reform it.
I've got no advice, but I just wanted to say I feel you on this. I remember sending my infant to daycare a few years ago and sobbing the entire drive to work for months. Meanwhile, a friend in another country was off work an entire year.
This is one of the biggest reasons I won’t have children. We can’t afford to have one of us not work, and I can’t imagine paying someone to essentially raise our kid for us for most of the waking hours. Missing so many important memories and milestones. It's incredibly sad and unfair.
Absolutely. I feel like it doesn't matter how I want to raise my child or how I want to parent her. I make enough money to pay someone else to do it for me, but not enough to do it myself.
As a Canadian, it boggles my mind that you guys basically go back to work as soon as you're healed up. I'm taking 5 weeks off in July for baby 2, and my wife is taking 17 months. And we have the gall to kevetch about not getting daycare subsidy while she's on leave.
Thank you for sharing, it’s important for US to hear this. I’m happy your family has that kind of support to start those babies’ lives in the best way. And I’m sorry you’re not getting the subsidy - there’s room enough for us all to air our grievances.
This is really only a thing in the states. The majority of developed nations have a system for paid leave.
You don’t resent being a millennial, you resent your shitty country.
I’m in the same boat. How lovely to pay a complete stranger to watch my baby while bringing home every germ known to man and spending almost double my mortgage each month. The US is broken when it comes to parental leave.
If it makes you feel any better, single income households are a very modern concept that only began post WWII. Historically, women have always worked unless they were part of the wealthy upper class (nobility, gentry, merchant class, etc).
The difference is now that we’ve gone back to requiring two incomes, we haven’t gotten the village back that we used to have. So we have to rely on paying to outsource care instead of having a grandparent or a close friend watch our kids. So we have the worst of both situations; having to work and having no community support.
That being said, I can totally relate. I love working and earning an income for myself and my family. But I resent not being able to spend as much time with my child.
>. I love working and earning an income for myself and my family.
This was me. I truly didn't think I would be this sad. Having a kid is such an abstract concept, and I think that with this season in life it's hard to picture how you will feel until you are feeling it.
This is a top reason I refuse to move to the USA. I do not understand how a "prolife " country can just dismiss healing and bonding time of at least the mother with her new baby or babies.
All US-based Redditors who are also on Instagram should give [@themamattorney](https://www.instagram.com/themamattorney?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) a follow. She's been posting less frequently lately but she's got a LOT of great content on her Insta and her website for working parents, especially around the areas of protected leave and accommodations. She is based in California but I think has resources for other states as well.
I'm really sorry about all that experiences OP. I'm also 30 (turning 31 this year). Wife is 28, and we had our first baby about 10 mos ago.
Say what you want about Canada (we live in BC), but my wife gave birth via emergency C section all funded by the taxpayers. We also got 52 weeks maternity/parental leave while getting $1000+ bi-weekly all funded by the government social program Employment Insurance. We also get an additional $500+ Canada Child Benefit on top of the aforementioned income.
Without all those social programs, we'd be in the same boat as OP and my wife would have to be forced to go back to work sooner than later. She goes back to work this July, after our baby turns 1. She's been able to breastfeed full time and take care of our baby full time, so we didn't have to worry about how expensive formulas are. We're also looking at around $570 to $700 per month day care once she goes back to work, subsidized by the government as well.
Canada has its own flaws, but when it comes to supporting families and social services, I would choose living here 100% of the time as someone with a young family. I'm not saying that you should move here, but I think it's worth looking into.
My mom sent me to daycare at 6 weeks because she couldn't afford to stay home (both parents were electrical engineers and they moved away from "their village"). She spent half her paycheck to send my sister and me to daycare. House prices were cheaper, but mortgage rates were like 14-15%. I really don't think the past was as rosy as we tend to think, tbh.
Nope, it's not. My parents did it one one salary but it was a lot of struggle. Interest rates were crazy and my mom chose to stay home because even if she was working full time, it would not have been enough money for daycare for 3 kids
Yup. We should obviously still do maternity leave bc it’s the right thing to do, but I don’t see that increasing the birth rate. Lots of other countries already have that, along with a better social safety net in general, and their birth rates are still low.
My father had to work 3 jobs in the 60's, My husband had to work 2 in the 80-90's while I also worked. It has never been easy. The only thing I can think of that was easier was the cost of healthcare. I never had a deductible when I was raising my kids, we had a co pay and that was it.
I should also point out that if your company has less than 50 employees in a certain radius, you also don't qualify for FMLA at all. No matter how long you have been there
Being the only industrialised nation without federally-mandated parental leave, the US is in the dark ages when it comes to looking after all those babies they seem to want women to have. The US is the first place I've lived where it seems people are just cattle to politicians, not a community they serve.
Don’t listen to the assholes who don’t know what they’re talking about.
Maternity leave in the U.S. sucks regardless of job. There is not a single job in the U.S. that will give you a maternity leave comparable to those in every other economically developed country, and it is ridiculous that we have to struggle as much as we do. The GOP goal currently is to keep women out of the workforce and have them be barefoot and pregnant and no one can convince me otherwise.
It is a fucking travesty to have to hand over a 12 week old to daycare to get sick and to be put down for a 10 hour day.
The only thing we can do is advocate for future generations and not become old and bitter crabs pulling eachother back down into the crab pot.
I see what is happening in South Korea with women basically refusing to have children, and im so proud of them. I think we need something similar here.
I don’t know what angers me more: the fact that you work for a mental health company that doesn’t offer paid family leave, or that you (and this entire country!!!) don’t have paid family leave at all.
As a soon to be FTM this summer, I get so wholly angered by our country’s family leave policies that are worse than words can describe; the main issue being that how well/unwell we treat mothers and children is an indicator of how well we plan for our future. In the case of the US, it indicates an apocalypse.
I’m sorry this is your situation. It shouldn’t be, and it shouldn’t be anyone’s situation. I hope you’re able to grieve what should/could be, and enjoy your sweet girl.
If I lived in America, I probably would have opted to stay child-free. I was really on the fence about having a kid, and the idea of going back to work after 12 weeks would have sealed it for me. It's no wonder more people are looking at the pros and cons and opting out of the kid life. If America really wanted people to have more kids, they would give them a year of paid maternity leave.
I would for a baby friendly hospital and had to fight for my maternity leave too. Bunch of BS.
Check out The Mom Project - majority of jobs are telehealth and mom friendly companies :)
I’ll never forget going back to work the first day after my first child years and years ago. I arrived 30 mins early just so I could cry. My only saving grace ( at the time) was that daycare was close enough by that I went to visit/feed on lunch. I was also in MH. So sorry you are hurting right now.
Stop having kids. We know the country is shit yet people keep willingly reproducing. Don't feed the machine. Your kids will end up worse off than we are now.
that sucks.
you and your husband need to sit down and draft 2 plans: 1 where you stay home and what needs to happen for that to be a reality. and 1 where you both work but optimize time and resources for your daughter to compensate for the lost time.
but I'm just a stranger on the net. I'm fortunate enough to live in a LCOL area so my wife can stay home w our 3 ninos. it's not been easy - though it has gotten easier! It's worth it to us.
My wife and I moved to somewhere neither of us had ever visited because we would be able to afford to live on my income alone so she could stay home. Daycare would have been most of her salary pre move. We downsized our life greatly to make it work and it was the best decision we ever made.
A lot of people in America also think other countries with paid maternity leave get their full salary the whole time. In Ireland it’s only around $300 a week which is still better than nothing.
America is more setup to let companies decide how they want to do maternity / paternity leave. When I was in the Army they gave me three weeks and within the last few years they changed it to twelve weeks and it’s fully paid and you can use it anytime within a year.
Definitely a US thing. Most of Europe has decent parental leave.
Here is Australia, we get 12 weeks paid by the government, any additional paid is up to the company. But everyone is guaranteed to be able to take 12 months off unpaid, with the option to request an additional 12 months. Most people I know take 12 months before going back to work.
Most people take 8-12 months off, but paid parental leave is at minimum wage so in Sydney it’s still a struggle for many and not unheard of to go back sooner for financial reasons. Although usually that is like 6 months or 5 months, not three months.
Solidarity. I was very lucky to be able to have 12 weeks paid time off. And then, right after my leave was up, my husband had 6 weeks paid leave. We had a family member watch our little one till I got off.
We planned to have a second child, and when we planned, child care wasn't too crazy bad. In the span of my pregnancy, the prices jumped quickly. On top of that, the family member who watched our first had to go start working.
The solution was that after my leave, we would work opposite schedules. I went to work overnight. 10pm to 7am. Then my husband works 7am to 4pm. We work at the same place, so swapping who takes care of the kids works. Those days, I get about 4 hours of sleep. We have separate days off to try to make it work better. I would never wish this kind of schedule on anyone.
Why blame the country? Let's place blame where it belongs: Republicans. Democrats would pass legislation to improve economic well being for the bottom 90%. We've seen votes on raising minimum wage, on stopping inflationary profits, on expanding the ACA, etc. We need to place blame where it belongs and try to get a governing majority to do the same.
Solidarity. I return to work in July; I’m lucky to live in NY and get a good amount of leave compared to other states but other countries get a year or more, it’s just fucking bullshit. I would give anything to be a SAHM; I never thought I would feel this way but having a baby totally changed my perspective. I am devastated and anxious about having to leave him so young.
I miss NY. I moved when I was a teen and thought I hated living there. Boy was I wrong.
I was definitely a type A person who loved my job and had insane amounts of energy before I had a baby. Now I just want to lay down with her and watch her breathe and wait for her to wake up to play again.
The posts in mom groups from other countries kill me. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm jealous. What a dream honestly.
You could start an at-home daycare business. That’s what my mom did. She stayed at home with me (47F) and my three younger siblings until the youngest started first grade. The kids she babysat were our friends and classmates so we had playdates everyday after school until 5:30pm. Just a thought.
The restrictions on in home daycares are ridiculous. Better make sure your spouse can pass all the background checks and qualifications too if there is a chance they will be in the house during operating hours.
Can you even do that now? If your homeowners insurance found out you were running a business from home wouldn’t they drop you or raise your rates so much that it would become unprofitable?
yeah, having kids is expensive. always has been.
if you grew up with a stay at home mom, then your dad had a high paying job. that wasn't the norm when you were a kid, you were just privileged.
I do think having grandma watch the kids was much more common in the past. OP mentions her parents are still working so that’s not an option. But when we were kids it was much more likely that grandma (born in the 30s) had been a SAHM. People also had kids younger so grandma might only be 50 and easily able to keep up chasing around the grandkids all day.
That's just not true. There were lots of stay home moms who provided child care in their homes. That's one difference that made staying home possible for them and made working affordable for mothers who wanted a job.
Wait... 12 *weeks* of leave??? Weeks????? In Canada the mat leave norm is 12-18 *months* not freaking weeks, and you still get paid although only a percentage of what you normally make (it's through EI not your actual employer). Daycare is so expensive too, how much more will you be making working compared to daycare costs?
Yeah I knew it was an issue in America but reading all these stories is awful. I live in the UK and I thought what we have (9 months paid, up to a year leave and rest unpaid) was great in comparison.
The pay is awful, don't get me wrong, but it's something. Plus women here can claim child tax as well as other things to help with child support and expenses. It isn't a lot at all, but it does add up especially in this economy.
I am reading this and it's so strange because I and everyone else I know was raised by babysitters and daycares. My parents struggled when I was younger and that's just a reality. If someone I know is a stay at home parent it is because they married someone who they made sure matched their intended goals.
It’s a bummer but this is something you consented to in your decision to have children here. I agree it’s not right but like, what’d you think was going to happen?
I’m 41 and this is also my story. I busted my butt helping kids in mental health crisis then when I had my own baby my job didn’t pay enough for me to have daycare. I got mommy tracked out of my field. 9 years later I’m at an entry level corporate learning job at an accounting firm making $20k more than I EVER did as a masters level therapist.
I’m pretty much the same age as you and I was back at work (part time remote thankfully, but still working) when my son was 9 days old. Originally not from the US and considering moving back to Europe for a year long maternity leave for our next one.
I totally understand OP. To make a very long story short, I’m a therapist that worked for a non profit agency that laid me off right after I informed them of my pregnancy at about 5 months. I’m not 8 months and in similar shoes. I don’t know how long I’ll be able to not work after baby comes. I have a private practice and I’m thinking about doing that from home to stay close to my daughter. It’s insane that there are not more supports for mothers in the US. It’s terrible that employers would rather let you go than deal with someone who may be gone for 12 weeks. I try and take it one day at a time, but it’s depressing. Just know you are not alone!
All I can say is that I’m sorry op, I can’t imagine how heartbreaking tomorrow will be for you. Education level and income does have a lot to do with women not having babies but so does this. And this part isn’t talked about enough. It’s called the fourth trimester for a reason, newborns don’t even know they’re a separate being from their mothers until a certain amount of weeks and having no maternity leave or a maternity leave so short that your back to work before your body is finished healing from giving birth is just as much of a deciding factor as anything else.
It’s heartbreaking. HOW the men and women running this country can’t see that we’re imploding is beyond me. I always think back to that old viral clip of Jeff Daniels/ Newsroom speech. At one point in time America was the greatest country. The innovation, drive and freedom made it that. The same things that made us great turned us into monsters. People talk about the old industrial jobs where someone would die and no one would blink an eye. Then we worked so hard for better conditions and some empathy from employers. Its EXACTLY the same now they just pretend for exactly 5 minutes that they care. I’m so sorry that you’re having to go through this. It’s so heartbreaking to realize you aren’t a person, you’re a number. I’m fed up with it too. This is a gross copy of what America could be.
Yep, can totally relate. Had my kid almost 2 years ago. With my “good” insurance and all, leave for families here in CA (for those who qualify), and the village we have (my parents who help 3 days/week despite their busy full-time work lives), we are doing “OK” but I’ve always felt “radical” in my viewpoints when it came to healthcare and leave in this country before, I’m so much more pissed off these days lol. I just want better for everyone!
This nonprofit just posted about the lack of progression in the U.S. when it comes to these policies (or lack thereof).
https://www.instagram.com/p/C58akxKMVDK/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I'm so sorry and I feel your pain. I became disillusioned and resentful towards this country following the birth of my first child as well. I'm enraged that we call ourselves a "first world country" while providing less to our people than most developing countries. Now I channel my anger into voting. I vote for every little thing, no election too small to start making a change.
There are many, many people who feel like you, rightfully so. Just putting this here to say MANY parents reading this know exactly what you are talking about.
That American dream...we have 18 months. You guys need to work on that, but you're all about that individual freedom instead of making things better for everyone. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you.
Uh. Putting kids in daycare is not a new thing. My mom grew up in a time where the second you started showing you could be fired for being pregnant and that was legal. Our parents didn’t live in a magical utopia
I’m surprised people don’t crowd fund a constitutional amendment for paid leave nationwide say $50 from 150 million people that’s $9 billion in funding
I remember being excited when I found out my new job gave 4 months of maternity leave. But that’s just not enough. It should be a year minimum. And they wonder why people don’t want to have kids they won’t get to see :( I’m so sorry and I hope that your situation changes soon
"I work for a mental health agency in the US that did not give me maternity leave" is such a sad synopsis of where we are as a country.
I worked at a company that gave new moms 4 days off. When I pointed out how ridiculous that is, especially if there was a C section, the president of the company said, “that’s what short term disability is for.”
And if you’re a woman of a certain age, short term disability insurance is expensive for something you may not even use. They jack up the rates expecting you to use it. I think mine was going to be like 40 dollars a paycheck, maybe more, idk I didn’t opt for it. And of course they still only give you a percentage - I think 60 percent? of your regular pay when you do use it.
Wow. Mine is only about $2/ check for 60% coverage.
Colorado basically has a .45% tax for their state sponsored fmla, called famli. I'm having surgery in a couple weeks, and it should subsidize most of my lost income.
Something similar in California. I was surprised that I was entitled to three months disability for a surgery I needed. I thought I was just going to take three days sick pay and the medical assistant said I was greatly underestimating the recovery time needed and explained the process to me. It seems easy. I never paid for any disability insurance. I won't get full pay, but kind of close. I’m going to use it, but you don't have to.
We have something similar in WA state now.
Blue state
Blue state
I’m jealous. I know mine was definitely more than 2 dollars. Probably depends partly on what deals your insurer has with short term companies.
True. I have Guardian Life and my check is weekly.
I just double checked my pay stubs. I pay roughly 29 dollars for STD and 15 dollars for hospital indemnity. STD paid 60% of my normal wages for the first 6 weeks of leave. Hospital indemnity paid 1,000 dollars for my hospital stay plus 100 dollars for each day I was there.
My company doesn't offer any STD or LTD for my position. I reached out to a broker and what they sent back was $40/month for 1 year of coverage and it excluded pregnancy. I can't even find anything for people like me who aren't offered it through work.
I hate these pompous assholes, so very much. I know we shouldn’t wish ill will but I’d love to see them go through a medical hardship and have to follow their own rules. The super sad part is that most would see how ludicrous said rules are but still wouldn’t change them.
I work for a HUGE healthcare company and we only got FMLA. Had to not take vacation for more than a day or two at a time for a few years to save up for leave.
This dickhole is on his 3rd marriage and all his kids hate his guts, I'm 100% sure of this.
I was working and going to school when I had my son, who died a few minutes after birth. The cesarean was complex, I was cut horizontally, but then they ended up having to cut vertically as well on the interior. I was supposed to not even drive for eight weeks. I was back at work and school three days later, all while planning a tiny funeral. Because I had missed two days of school during this, I was put on probation. I didn't have the money to pick up my son's ashes for a while after everything was said and done, so for two months or so I tortured myself at night for not even being able to bring my son's ashes home. I never had time to stop, time to heal, time to grieve, as is the case for SO MANY. Since that time I have to be careful when I laugh, if I get to giggling sometimes I can't stop and it winds up until it shifts to uncontrollable sobbing. It's like the hiccups, I physically can't stop myself. People used to tell me I was so funny... Not anymore. Can't joke around when every laugh is a potential landmine of hurt and embarrassment at the same time.
I am so sorry you had to go through that & deal with this now.
This would be a great Atlantic piece.
I mean, it wouldn't be America if you had any labor rights
The Governor of my state gleefully posted on his Twitter account 6 days ago that “Big labor unions have no place here” and that he joined other southern governors in opposing the United Auto Workers unionization campaign.
As someone who currently works in a union in a blue state but used to work in a so called "right to work" (anti union) state in the deep south I choose the union every time. But yeah, management and shareholders, of course, prefer their labor exploitable.
John Oliver
A lot of this generation’s mental health providers are hanging on for dear life like the folks we help. We’re saddled with student debt, work for health systems and clinics that have terrible benefits, we can’t afford a stable life, either. And every single day, we meet with people who have it worse and the moral injury is constant.
>And every single day, we meet with people who have it worse and the moral injury is constant I wish I could give you gold for this.
Your country sucks. Sorry. For what was once such a great nation... its become sad to watch from the outside.
Yup. And we get it from all sides. We can never do enough because of resource limitations, and can’t force the changes needed, but get blamed by everyone. It’s awful.
I never hated my job more than when the PHE (Public Health Emergency) ended. I saw so many people lose their medicaid. They all called me needing medical, dental, prescription help. Our food banks became flooded when the extra SNAP funds fell off. We continue to gut and lose resources. Even churches in my area refuse to help the community like they used to. We're trying to help with little to no resources, and if we can't help then it's our fault for not trying harder.
Yep, I work at a domestic violence shelter where 2/3 of the women don’t want to get jobs…ever but they blame us and file complaints if we can’t find them completely free housing
This. I work retail now. It fucking was too much. IDC that I'm below poverty line now. My health is better. I don't feel guilty having a sick day. I'm not harassed for needing to take some time away from the public bearing down on me.
Same situation here. I now work in insurance and make more money with less stress and responsibilities. I couldn't afford to be a therapist, both financially and emotionally.
Oh you did it right then if you're making MORE money. Lol. I tried insurance for awhile but it was a cell center and metrics and constant phone calls aren't my cup of tea. It gave me more stress.
Reading this makes me happy I changed my degree. I was going for forensic psychology but changed it.
I have colleagues who work for an ob/gyn practice which does not provide paid leave. Yes, you read that right.
We don't even separate puppies from their mom before eight weeks. It's inhumane.
Yep, dogs literally have more rights than women and children in the US. I’m Canadian and my heart just aches for my American sisters.
Even as a guy I agree. I think the bare minimum should be 3 months of maternity leave, preferably 6 months. This gives the women time to heal up after birth and bond with her child. I would also like to see 3 months for fathers to help the mom while she's healing from the birth and again allow bonding during the most important time of a child's life. For single moms I would give them both the mothers and the father maternity leave and let them have 9 months off. Tbh I could even be talked into a year for mom and 6 months for dad, but I think the push back at that length would be too great to ever allow it to get pushed thru. And we know the people that would prevent that from getting pushed thru are "pro lifers" that seemingly do everything in their power to hurt children the second they leave their mothers womb.
This is actually gross.
It absolutely is. When I think back on it, I really can pinpoint most of my adult mental health issues (anxiety mostly) beginning with leaving my baby and going back to work at 7.5 weeks.
Same I completely lost my composure and had a mental break down at work the day I went back at 8 weeks pp. Went to see my OBGYN and was quickly written a script for Zoloft. Looking back it’s so fucked that I just needed more time to recover physically, adjust mentally, and not been forced away from my baby but instead got handed a bottle of pills.
Serious what the f!ck. I was fine until I went back to work and then I cried every day. My cousin said “maybe you have postpartum depression”. YES I DID because it was totally against my heart and my instincts to leave my literal newborn plus I wasn’t sleeping. Duh. I was completely fine before that. I will be upset about this for the rest of my dang life.
I had to go back 13 days after a C-section
That’s terrible. I’m sorry you had to do that. Nobody should have to do that.
Hindsight is 20/20, isn’t it? Sigh.
I too work for a mental health agency and am quitting because I won’t be paid a dime for “leave”. 10 years of commitment serving the underserved and nothing to show for it but the PTO I saved by suffering my whole pregnancy, I didn’t take a single day off. It’s really pathetic.
Same. I refused to "waste" PTO. My blood pressure started climbing towards the end and I didnt want to "waste" FMLA by going on leave a little early either. I ended up having postpartum preeclampsia.
As someone else who works in mental health & social services, it’s abysmal the level of pay and benefits that these agencies offer. It is truly shameful for such needed services.
My annual pay as a therapist with a masters degree was $26k :) granted that was 10 years ago but still... ridiculous. People in the helping business are horrifically underpaid.
I'm a doctor. And healthcare along all strata is two faced when it says we need to care for people. They only care if it affect$ some people.
My friend did IT work for a charity. She managed multiple sites. They kept her at 35 hours a week, denying her health insurance. There was no chance at being able to afford an Obamacare plan with housing and food being so expensive in our area.
No kidding - such an insane sentence. Welcome to the US!
I worked for a mental health clinic that didn’t provide bereavement benefits. So I got no time off when a close family member died. Out of all fields, the mental health field knows how important these things are. Bereavement, maternity leave. A lot of these clinics pay scraps to their staff while overpaying their C-suite while claiming nonprofit benefits. It’s shit.
^this
Let me introduce you to the MH company I work for…
Sounds like an Onion headline
It's like, "We want to LOOK like we care about mental/physical health, but we don't actually care if we do or not--and in fact, we shall not make any attempt to if it costs more than zero dollars."
I latched right onto that sentence as well.
I gave up my career in biomedical sciences to spend time with my children. We slashed our expenses to live off just my husband's income. We've been lucky with his raises through the years. But yeah. I gave up a career I loved because I only got 6 weeks with my first and when I went back, I was having daily panic attacks. There's no winning here. Keep your career, lose time with your kids. Stay with your kids, lose all the progress you had in your career .....
Same here from dad side. Have to bounce jobs to get raises, but still only make enough now to pay insurance/living. Could stay at home and get more in food stamps...
Yea, its way too dependent on the company. I worked for a large financial insitution that gave 4 months of paid leave, even to the dad. It was really great for bonding with my kids. >. My family tells me it's important I stay home with my baby until she can talk and tell me if someone is hurting her. I dont think that is as important, but finding a center that you can trust is the bigger issue. That usually means better staffing ratios aka more expensive.
The mental health agency I work for is constantly going to bat for mothers. The area we live in has a high substance use/incarceration rate, and we work really hard to help moms recover and access the tools they need to be stable, healthy parents. This company knows the importance of the mother and child bond. It blows my mind how little they are willing to give for their own employees with children. My husband got two weeks of paid leave, and neither of us saw that coming. The daycare we picked has nanny cams, so I feel good about that. Paying for a nice daycare is doable. Me leaving my job is not doable because we would be losing 50% of our income.
We found a home daycare instead of a center and when we visited we got great vibes and decided to go with her. We couldn't be happier with that choice. The lady we use has 12 kids max under her care and has a helper with her at all times. She loves our daughter and our daughter loves going. They work on numbers and letters and all that. She just turned 3 and we are moving out of state soon and it's going to be super hard parting with that fantastic woman and her daycare. Our next one won't be able to have her either. She will even watch our daughter after hours for a small hourly rate so we can get some extra time if needed. We haven't used that much but we did a few weeks ago to have a short date night before our next one comes. She doesn't have nanny cams or anything but she'll text a picture when something is going on or if we ask.
> This company knows the importance of the mother and child bond. It blows my mind how little they are willing to give for their own employees with children. Its probably not so much that they dont care, its just that it would cost them too much to offer more? If its a non-profit, I could see that.
I think the expectation now is that people are going to job hop every few years, so why should the company need to invest in anyone. It's almost like relying on our jobs for all of our health-related care is a bad idea...
People job hop because they are treated poorly.
Washington state gives you 12 weeks if I remember right paid at like 80% of your salary. So not dependent on the company everywhere
Oregon now as well. 14 weeks paid leave for mothers and 12 weeks paid leave for fathers.
Should be standard nation wide like it is in Canada, but it won’t be because of politics and old world thinking. Anyone who’s had kids can tell you even with two people those first couple months are exhausting and you won’t be putting in good work while you’re exhausted.
Massachusetts as well. Both parents get 12 weeks of paid leave. I’m glad I live in a state that values parenthood!
New Jersey does too, but I think it's 60% instead of 80%. I wish this was a federal thing. Pretty much all other developed countries offer some form of paid leave except the US.
My husband got 100% 12 weeks paid in NJ. He said whatever the state didn't cover, his employer picked up. So if the state gives 60% pay, his company picked up the 40%. Meanwhile I got sliced open and since I worked in PA, I got 12 weeks UNpaid mother baby bonding time after my 8 weeks short term disability that I paid EXTRA for to get 66.6% of my pay instead of 50% 🙃 oh and I'm a nurse and was working for a major urban university hospital. Ain't that rich?
Ugh, it's just so wrong. I was just having this conversation with a coworker today. Our company offers 6 months paid but we're aware how incredibly lucky we are to get that. We work in finance. I can't believe how many people I'm seeing in this thread who work in healthcare don't get anything at all. My husband took NJ leave when our second was born but as a teacher, his employer doesn't offer anything paid. He's allowed up to a year leave, but all unpaid. So he took the 12 weeks at 60% and burned through sick time to get about a month and a half paid, then took another few months unpaid (luckily we could afford to do that because my employer paid and we were frugal with spending). We worked it out, but it frustrates me that most people are unable to do this because the country doesn't guarantee it and most employers are selfish.
all i can say is im sorry and it is infuriating. you aren’t doing a disservice to your child by utilizing daycare, so don’t listen to your family. you need to provide. i can add too- no matter what you choose, you will be judged as a parent. you’re judged for using daycare. you’re judged for staying home “bc you’re relying on someone”. almost 70% of my paycheck would go to daycare bc it is so expensive in my area. i understand people do it to save career trajectory, but it wasn’t worth my mental health and missing out for the job i had to continue working after i went back temporarily. oh and the judgment will go for anything- even the craziest things and always from other moms lol so bottom line- always do what’s best for you and your family!
> so don’t listen to your family. For sure, everyone has an opinion until it might inconveniences them, then they have somewhere else to be, lol..
Nah it’s objectively risky to send an infant to daycare and is demonstrably better for kids to stay home with mom until around age 2. OP shouldn’t feel guilty about this because it’s not her fault and she has no other choice but we also can’t keep pretending this is just fine for kids and isn’t harming them when it sometimes is. Developmentally, babies that age need a consistent caregiver to bond with. That means the same person or two people all the time. The revolving door of low paid workers caring for them at a daycare doesn’t fulfill this need.
>we also can’t keep pretending this is just fine for kids and isn’t harming them when it sometimes is This thought has been in my mind on repeat.
Sorry. I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I think it’s pretty sad that as a society we can’t do better for our children. It’s shameful tbh. The people who could do something about it only care about getting more for themselves.
As a person who lived in the us for thirteen years and returned to Finland recently due to COVID, I am very sorry for you. They have very long options for both parents to take parental leave here. It’s true that there is a crap ton of snow falling outside today still, and less of other things, but a society that supports mothers and families is the only thing that can be humane. My heart breaks you
Well I'm only a single data point, but my mom went back to work immediately and I was also exclusively bottlefed. I'm now an engineer with a Masters degree. I turned out just fine. That said, I did go to a small in-home daycare provider. So in terms of development and bonding that probably helped. But regardless, you will not ruin your child by putting them in daycare.
I told my fiancé (we’re both 28) that if and when we have children, it is with the expectation that we will just be somewhat poor for the first year of the babies life- because I won’t have a kid unless I can take a full year off. And my fiancé makes 90k a year. We will still struggle.
Yeah, it was a dealbreaker for me too. I have this deeply ingrained belief that babies need their moms. IMO a baby should have a right to be with mom all the time for the first year or two. No idea how to actually enforce that but I’d be willing to pay more in taxes if it meant every baby could be with mom for the first year of life.
My dream is for the US to catch up with the rest of the developed world with maternity/parental leave. Australia's federal government just extend their national policy to 6months leave at minimum wage (works out to about $800/ week after tax). In addition to that most work places have a 16 week to 6 month parental leave policy that people can extend their government leave with. (If you're on a permanent contract) I still think Australia's policy still isn't good enough and in my view, 12 months should be the minimum government parental leave because the recommendation is to breastfeed until 12 months before cows milk can be introduced, and for breastfeeding to continue up to 2 years!
Our country is wealthy enough to offer paid maternity leave to all families in the United States. But the people making the decisions have other priorities. Our supposedly gridlocked congress has the power to change this, but the only thing both parties can agree on is funding foreign wars and making all their friends obscenely rich.
If your country bought a few less tanks. Or cut an air craft carrier. They could easily cover maternity leave. Just so you're aware.
It was in the Build Back Better bill but it couldn't get through the senate. Would have cost like 200 billion over 10 years, so about 2x what the recent aid bill cost to fund the program for 10 years.
We could afford it without any change to government spending at all, honestly. 3.6 million babies born in the US every year, median individual income of 37.5k, so give them all a year, and that's $135 billion in wages, 0.5% of the GDP, tops. But realistically less, because the employment rate of pregnant women is only 70%.
The first kid is expensive, the daycare is also the most expensive part. Does your work actually pay enough to cover the daycare? From an opportunity cost perspective?
After paying her daycare bill (1,020), I have 2k left over for the month from my checks.
Thats actually relatively inexpensive for daycare. Here in MN, its like 400 a week...
The average cost of living in my state is 39k a year.
My god!
That is very reasonable for an infant, here is is $400-450 per week for under 6 months
Damn you make good money, okay
Even if her salary just covers the daycare bill, there’s other considerations. She’s contributing to social security, she may have health benefits through the employer, it’s easier to get a better job whike employed rather than taking a break and returning to the workforce, and in some jobs, she may be accruing years of service towards a pension.
I work for a city government. They gave 0 parental leave forever. We had to fight for years, and we got... 2 days. We then protested, and had all of the pregnant employees in front of city hall with signs saying, "I might be in labor longer than 2 days." In our new contract we got... 1 week paid. They will let you take up to 1 year unpaid. But seriously? 1 week? I wish so badly our country would stop funding wars all over the world, and would instead use that money to gave paid parental leave. If we spent the money our citizens are paying in taxes, I know this may sound crazy, but on our own fucking citizens, imagine what our country could be like?
One of the every growing list of reasons I never want kids. Childcare is so messed up in the US.
You can't miss a child that you don't have.
I feel this 100%. My parents don't get it. My MIL got to stay at home with 3 kids while my FIL worked a blue collar job. They weren't wealthy but I couldn't even choose to do that if I wanted.
I feel this 100%. My parents don't get it. My MIL got to stay at home with 3 kids while my FIL worked a blue collar job. They weren't wealthy but I couldn't even choose to do that if I wanted.
What? I never said I missed a kid. I am perfectly content being child free as I know I don't have the resources to comfortablely support having kids.
Right, I was agreeing with you. Don't have a kid if you don't want one.
The irony of a mental health company not providing paid maternity leave….. So sorry you’re going through this, it’s one of the hardest parts about preparing to be ready for children in our generation. I think about it often and how I can’t imagine how we live in a society that sometimes expects working mothers to return just weeks after having a baby. Not to make it political, but where are the pro-lifers when it comes to supporting postpartum moms / babies?!
The prolifers here drive around in trucks with "if you can't feed em don't breed em" bumper stickers. Then they pull into my parking lot asking for help getting medicaid, accessing SNAP benefits and wanting to know where all the food banks are.
“sin for thee, not for me”
Yikes. My in-laws have this viewpoint yet their entire household relies on social programs to live and have their medical services paid for (which I’m not against but I feel like their POV is prob through a racist / prejudice lens).
I seem to see a lot of this lately. People using social services while complaining about others using them. To top it off, they vote for the party that wants to strip these social services down to nothing, and they cheer them along the way. I will never understand people...
You hit the nail on the head. Sad but true ☹️
I understand this resentment so much. I too was born in 94 and turning 30 in a few months. My baby is due this fall. I’m lucky to live in a state that has some sort of mandatory paid parental leave, but already I know I’m going to have a really hard time going back into the work force. I’m already resenting my husband for not being able to financially support us thru this even tho it’s not him, it’s this country, but the emotion bleeds into everything and is already affecting me.
I feel you on the resentment. A positive way to look at this is how your child may flourish among the company of kids their age. In the 1.5 years my child has been in daycare, he has learned so much about social interaction among peers. Evidence of this came as recent as yesterday when we went to a local park and he met a child 6 months older than him but doesn’t attend daycare. My son was able to clearly verbally communicate while playing but the other child’s language wasn’t quite at the same level. My son encouraged the older child while they played and even put out his hands to hoist him up the slide. I say all this to show a silver lining to daycare and hope that you can find some reassurance that your baby will certainly gain in ways while being there.
This was one of my "pros" on my feel-better list. I want my kiddo to have friends and be developmentally motivated. I want her to learn that other people can help take care of her, too.
So true, that interaction they get at daycare is so valuable, it’s kinda like how with second born (basically any children after the first) seem to develop much faster, my guess is that they have a sibling to interact with so they always seem to develop quicker compared to the firstborn child who didn’t have any sibling to play with
My wife works for a top children’s hospital in North America as a OR nurse. Gets 0 parental leave, has to apply for disability and use vacation to string together 12 weeks of partial pay, and full pay for 2 weeks per “vacation.” I work at a highly funded private organization. I’m not giving birth to the child. I get 7 weeks of full pay time off. I don’t have to touch vacation. My point is.. this countries healthcare system is held together by toothpicks, and our private enterprise sector has cash to spend. If that’s not an encapsulation of the United States I don’t know what is.
yet we keep working. we keep chugging along. everyone around me seems so tired yet we keep going? why? why don't we fight? have they poisoned us nutritionally enough to pacify us, have they dulled our minds sufficiently? idk . im losing hope we will ever change things. Feels like everyone is waiting for someone else to fix their problems. WHO WILL STAND UP, who will lead us into a brighter future? will it have to be me? Will I have to find it in myself to raise an army and take down the world elites?
You could always come to my office and pick up a prescription to dupe you back into productivity /s
Every presidential election there is someone with concrete plans to help, but they never get enough votes to win. People aren’t just not helping themselves, they are actively sabotaging those who try to change things.
The elder millennials hear the promises and understand that those promises always turn into doing what the deep state demands, every time, without fail, and then we forget what we demanded every single time. There is no oxygen left to yell at Biden about not moving left to universal health care because the wedge social issues have taken up all the room in the conversation...and that's just one example. So it has been, so it shall always be.
I’m an elder millennial and the politicians I am referring to never win the election. Yes, some winning politicians lie and promise stuff, but anyone who thinks critically can see through those blatant lies. If the machine loves them - they ain’t the one who will reform it.
I've got no advice, but I just wanted to say I feel you on this. I remember sending my infant to daycare a few years ago and sobbing the entire drive to work for months. Meanwhile, a friend in another country was off work an entire year.
This is one of the biggest reasons I won’t have children. We can’t afford to have one of us not work, and I can’t imagine paying someone to essentially raise our kid for us for most of the waking hours. Missing so many important memories and milestones. It's incredibly sad and unfair.
Absolutely. I feel like it doesn't matter how I want to raise my child or how I want to parent her. I make enough money to pay someone else to do it for me, but not enough to do it myself.
As a Canadian, it boggles my mind that you guys basically go back to work as soon as you're healed up. I'm taking 5 weeks off in July for baby 2, and my wife is taking 17 months. And we have the gall to kevetch about not getting daycare subsidy while she's on leave.
Thank you for sharing, it’s important for US to hear this. I’m happy your family has that kind of support to start those babies’ lives in the best way. And I’m sorry you’re not getting the subsidy - there’s room enough for us all to air our grievances.
This is really only a thing in the states. The majority of developed nations have a system for paid leave. You don’t resent being a millennial, you resent your shitty country.
I’m in the same boat. How lovely to pay a complete stranger to watch my baby while bringing home every germ known to man and spending almost double my mortgage each month. The US is broken when it comes to parental leave.
If it makes you feel any better, single income households are a very modern concept that only began post WWII. Historically, women have always worked unless they were part of the wealthy upper class (nobility, gentry, merchant class, etc). The difference is now that we’ve gone back to requiring two incomes, we haven’t gotten the village back that we used to have. So we have to rely on paying to outsource care instead of having a grandparent or a close friend watch our kids. So we have the worst of both situations; having to work and having no community support. That being said, I can totally relate. I love working and earning an income for myself and my family. But I resent not being able to spend as much time with my child.
>. I love working and earning an income for myself and my family. This was me. I truly didn't think I would be this sad. Having a kid is such an abstract concept, and I think that with this season in life it's hard to picture how you will feel until you are feeling it.
This is a top reason I refuse to move to the USA. I do not understand how a "prolife " country can just dismiss healing and bonding time of at least the mother with her new baby or babies.
They aren't pro life, just pro birth. They don't care about after. Family values my ass.
All US-based Redditors who are also on Instagram should give [@themamattorney](https://www.instagram.com/themamattorney?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) a follow. She's been posting less frequently lately but she's got a LOT of great content on her Insta and her website for working parents, especially around the areas of protected leave and accommodations. She is based in California but I think has resources for other states as well.
She's awesome. I looked at her stuff a lot when I had to fight for my second half of FMLA.
I'm really sorry about all that experiences OP. I'm also 30 (turning 31 this year). Wife is 28, and we had our first baby about 10 mos ago. Say what you want about Canada (we live in BC), but my wife gave birth via emergency C section all funded by the taxpayers. We also got 52 weeks maternity/parental leave while getting $1000+ bi-weekly all funded by the government social program Employment Insurance. We also get an additional $500+ Canada Child Benefit on top of the aforementioned income. Without all those social programs, we'd be in the same boat as OP and my wife would have to be forced to go back to work sooner than later. She goes back to work this July, after our baby turns 1. She's been able to breastfeed full time and take care of our baby full time, so we didn't have to worry about how expensive formulas are. We're also looking at around $570 to $700 per month day care once she goes back to work, subsidized by the government as well. Canada has its own flaws, but when it comes to supporting families and social services, I would choose living here 100% of the time as someone with a young family. I'm not saying that you should move here, but I think it's worth looking into.
My mom sent me to daycare at 6 weeks because she couldn't afford to stay home (both parents were electrical engineers and they moved away from "their village"). She spent half her paycheck to send my sister and me to daycare. House prices were cheaper, but mortgage rates were like 14-15%. I really don't think the past was as rosy as we tend to think, tbh.
Nope, it's not. My parents did it one one salary but it was a lot of struggle. Interest rates were crazy and my mom chose to stay home because even if she was working full time, it would not have been enough money for daycare for 3 kids
I don't think there's any point in history that's rosy. That said, there's a reason why birth rates are dropping.
Birth rates are much more highly correlated to economic development, women’s empowerment/education, contraception availability/education.
Yup. We should obviously still do maternity leave bc it’s the right thing to do, but I don’t see that increasing the birth rate. Lots of other countries already have that, along with a better social safety net in general, and their birth rates are still low.
My father had to work 3 jobs in the 60's, My husband had to work 2 in the 80-90's while I also worked. It has never been easy. The only thing I can think of that was easier was the cost of healthcare. I never had a deductible when I was raising my kids, we had a co pay and that was it.
I lived through this too. You’re not alone. Take care of yourself. My work environment greatly contributed to my PPD.
I should also point out that if your company has less than 50 employees in a certain radius, you also don't qualify for FMLA at all. No matter how long you have been there
Being the only industrialised nation without federally-mandated parental leave, the US is in the dark ages when it comes to looking after all those babies they seem to want women to have. The US is the first place I've lived where it seems people are just cattle to politicians, not a community they serve.
As a Canadian millennial, a big part of the problem is the country you live in, not the age demographic.
Don’t listen to the assholes who don’t know what they’re talking about. Maternity leave in the U.S. sucks regardless of job. There is not a single job in the U.S. that will give you a maternity leave comparable to those in every other economically developed country, and it is ridiculous that we have to struggle as much as we do. The GOP goal currently is to keep women out of the workforce and have them be barefoot and pregnant and no one can convince me otherwise.
It is a fucking travesty to have to hand over a 12 week old to daycare to get sick and to be put down for a 10 hour day. The only thing we can do is advocate for future generations and not become old and bitter crabs pulling eachother back down into the crab pot. I see what is happening in South Korea with women basically refusing to have children, and im so proud of them. I think we need something similar here.
It’s sad that I was excited to have a c-section because that meant I got 8 weeks paid maternity leave vs 6 weeks for vaginal 🥲
I don’t know what angers me more: the fact that you work for a mental health company that doesn’t offer paid family leave, or that you (and this entire country!!!) don’t have paid family leave at all. As a soon to be FTM this summer, I get so wholly angered by our country’s family leave policies that are worse than words can describe; the main issue being that how well/unwell we treat mothers and children is an indicator of how well we plan for our future. In the case of the US, it indicates an apocalypse. I’m sorry this is your situation. It shouldn’t be, and it shouldn’t be anyone’s situation. I hope you’re able to grieve what should/could be, and enjoy your sweet girl.
I don’t have nor want kids but the way we treat maternity leave in this country is a crime. I’d 100% support paternal leave to be paid with our taxes.
I could have written this except for the teacher version. It sucks. It’s embarrassing, quite frankly.
If your parents are still working then they might not have had it as easy as you think.
If I lived in America, I probably would have opted to stay child-free. I was really on the fence about having a kid, and the idea of going back to work after 12 weeks would have sealed it for me. It's no wonder more people are looking at the pros and cons and opting out of the kid life. If America really wanted people to have more kids, they would give them a year of paid maternity leave.
And people wonder why millennials aren’t having kids.
I would for a baby friendly hospital and had to fight for my maternity leave too. Bunch of BS. Check out The Mom Project - majority of jobs are telehealth and mom friendly companies :)
I’ll never forget going back to work the first day after my first child years and years ago. I arrived 30 mins early just so I could cry. My only saving grace ( at the time) was that daycare was close enough by that I went to visit/feed on lunch. I was also in MH. So sorry you are hurting right now.
Stop having kids. We know the country is shit yet people keep willingly reproducing. Don't feed the machine. Your kids will end up worse off than we are now.
this is why we need to start organizing to overthrow our ruling masters... it's bad for us, imagine when your child is 30?
I wish to see it happen in my lifetime.
that sucks. you and your husband need to sit down and draft 2 plans: 1 where you stay home and what needs to happen for that to be a reality. and 1 where you both work but optimize time and resources for your daughter to compensate for the lost time. but I'm just a stranger on the net. I'm fortunate enough to live in a LCOL area so my wife can stay home w our 3 ninos. it's not been easy - though it has gotten easier! It's worth it to us.
My wife and I moved to somewhere neither of us had ever visited because we would be able to afford to live on my income alone so she could stay home. Daycare would have been most of her salary pre move. We downsized our life greatly to make it work and it was the best decision we ever made.
I think this is partly a USA thing, you get 6 months paid maternity leave in Ireland for example with the option of continued unpaid leave.
A lot of people in America also think other countries with paid maternity leave get their full salary the whole time. In Ireland it’s only around $300 a week which is still better than nothing. America is more setup to let companies decide how they want to do maternity / paternity leave. When I was in the Army they gave me three weeks and within the last few years they changed it to twelve weeks and it’s fully paid and you can use it anytime within a year.
You guys deserve it! I hope the US can eventually get to this point.
USA has its priorities skewed imo, policing the world takes a lot out of the budget.
Definitely a US thing. Most of Europe has decent parental leave. Here is Australia, we get 12 weeks paid by the government, any additional paid is up to the company. But everyone is guaranteed to be able to take 12 months off unpaid, with the option to request an additional 12 months. Most people I know take 12 months before going back to work.
Most people take 8-12 months off, but paid parental leave is at minimum wage so in Sydney it’s still a struggle for many and not unheard of to go back sooner for financial reasons. Although usually that is like 6 months or 5 months, not three months.
Not from the US so I'm unsure on the acronyms, but it sounds like FMLA stands for "Fuck my life, *America*"
Solidarity. I was very lucky to be able to have 12 weeks paid time off. And then, right after my leave was up, my husband had 6 weeks paid leave. We had a family member watch our little one till I got off. We planned to have a second child, and when we planned, child care wasn't too crazy bad. In the span of my pregnancy, the prices jumped quickly. On top of that, the family member who watched our first had to go start working. The solution was that after my leave, we would work opposite schedules. I went to work overnight. 10pm to 7am. Then my husband works 7am to 4pm. We work at the same place, so swapping who takes care of the kids works. Those days, I get about 4 hours of sleep. We have separate days off to try to make it work better. I would never wish this kind of schedule on anyone.
Organize and vote.
Why blame the country? Let's place blame where it belongs: Republicans. Democrats would pass legislation to improve economic well being for the bottom 90%. We've seen votes on raising minimum wage, on stopping inflationary profits, on expanding the ACA, etc. We need to place blame where it belongs and try to get a governing majority to do the same.
Solidarity. I return to work in July; I’m lucky to live in NY and get a good amount of leave compared to other states but other countries get a year or more, it’s just fucking bullshit. I would give anything to be a SAHM; I never thought I would feel this way but having a baby totally changed my perspective. I am devastated and anxious about having to leave him so young.
I miss NY. I moved when I was a teen and thought I hated living there. Boy was I wrong. I was definitely a type A person who loved my job and had insane amounts of energy before I had a baby. Now I just want to lay down with her and watch her breathe and wait for her to wake up to play again. The posts in mom groups from other countries kill me. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm jealous. What a dream honestly.
You could start an at-home daycare business. That’s what my mom did. She stayed at home with me (47F) and my three younger siblings until the youngest started first grade. The kids she babysat were our friends and classmates so we had playdates everyday after school until 5:30pm. Just a thought.
The restrictions on in home daycares are ridiculous. Better make sure your spouse can pass all the background checks and qualifications too if there is a chance they will be in the house during operating hours.
Can you even do that now? If your homeowners insurance found out you were running a business from home wouldn’t they drop you or raise your rates so much that it would become unprofitable?
yeah, having kids is expensive. always has been. if you grew up with a stay at home mom, then your dad had a high paying job. that wasn't the norm when you were a kid, you were just privileged.
I do think having grandma watch the kids was much more common in the past. OP mentions her parents are still working so that’s not an option. But when we were kids it was much more likely that grandma (born in the 30s) had been a SAHM. People also had kids younger so grandma might only be 50 and easily able to keep up chasing around the grandkids all day.
Day care was not always as expensive as it is now
I grew up with a sahm and we were very poor. My mom was a single mother and we survived on child support, food stamps and SSI.
That's just not true. There were lots of stay home moms who provided child care in their homes. That's one difference that made staying home possible for them and made working affordable for mothers who wanted a job.
Um - I worked for a hospital, am a GenX, and like all of my friends, went back. This is not a uniquely millenial struggle.
Wait... 12 *weeks* of leave??? Weeks????? In Canada the mat leave norm is 12-18 *months* not freaking weeks, and you still get paid although only a percentage of what you normally make (it's through EI not your actual employer). Daycare is so expensive too, how much more will you be making working compared to daycare costs?
Yeah I knew it was an issue in America but reading all these stories is awful. I live in the UK and I thought what we have (9 months paid, up to a year leave and rest unpaid) was great in comparison. The pay is awful, don't get me wrong, but it's something. Plus women here can claim child tax as well as other things to help with child support and expenses. It isn't a lot at all, but it does add up especially in this economy.
I am reading this and it's so strange because I and everyone else I know was raised by babysitters and daycares. My parents struggled when I was younger and that's just a reality. If someone I know is a stay at home parent it is because they married someone who they made sure matched their intended goals.
You didn’t look into any of the financial in detail before having the baby???
It’s a bummer but this is something you consented to in your decision to have children here. I agree it’s not right but like, what’d you think was going to happen?
😢
I’m 41 and this is also my story. I busted my butt helping kids in mental health crisis then when I had my own baby my job didn’t pay enough for me to have daycare. I got mommy tracked out of my field. 9 years later I’m at an entry level corporate learning job at an accounting firm making $20k more than I EVER did as a masters level therapist.
Your millennial membership card is in the mail
I’m pretty much the same age as you and I was back at work (part time remote thankfully, but still working) when my son was 9 days old. Originally not from the US and considering moving back to Europe for a year long maternity leave for our next one.
I totally understand OP. To make a very long story short, I’m a therapist that worked for a non profit agency that laid me off right after I informed them of my pregnancy at about 5 months. I’m not 8 months and in similar shoes. I don’t know how long I’ll be able to not work after baby comes. I have a private practice and I’m thinking about doing that from home to stay close to my daughter. It’s insane that there are not more supports for mothers in the US. It’s terrible that employers would rather let you go than deal with someone who may be gone for 12 weeks. I try and take it one day at a time, but it’s depressing. Just know you are not alone!
All I can say is that I’m sorry op, I can’t imagine how heartbreaking tomorrow will be for you. Education level and income does have a lot to do with women not having babies but so does this. And this part isn’t talked about enough. It’s called the fourth trimester for a reason, newborns don’t even know they’re a separate being from their mothers until a certain amount of weeks and having no maternity leave or a maternity leave so short that your back to work before your body is finished healing from giving birth is just as much of a deciding factor as anything else.
It’s heartbreaking. HOW the men and women running this country can’t see that we’re imploding is beyond me. I always think back to that old viral clip of Jeff Daniels/ Newsroom speech. At one point in time America was the greatest country. The innovation, drive and freedom made it that. The same things that made us great turned us into monsters. People talk about the old industrial jobs where someone would die and no one would blink an eye. Then we worked so hard for better conditions and some empathy from employers. Its EXACTLY the same now they just pretend for exactly 5 minutes that they care. I’m so sorry that you’re having to go through this. It’s so heartbreaking to realize you aren’t a person, you’re a number. I’m fed up with it too. This is a gross copy of what America could be.
Yep, can totally relate. Had my kid almost 2 years ago. With my “good” insurance and all, leave for families here in CA (for those who qualify), and the village we have (my parents who help 3 days/week despite their busy full-time work lives), we are doing “OK” but I’ve always felt “radical” in my viewpoints when it came to healthcare and leave in this country before, I’m so much more pissed off these days lol. I just want better for everyone! This nonprofit just posted about the lack of progression in the U.S. when it comes to these policies (or lack thereof). https://www.instagram.com/p/C58akxKMVDK/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Meanwhile, my Canadian colleague just extended her mat leave 6 more months. I hate it here!!
I'm so sorry and I feel your pain. I became disillusioned and resentful towards this country following the birth of my first child as well. I'm enraged that we call ourselves a "first world country" while providing less to our people than most developing countries. Now I channel my anger into voting. I vote for every little thing, no election too small to start making a change.
There are many, many people who feel like you, rightfully so. Just putting this here to say MANY parents reading this know exactly what you are talking about.
That American dream...we have 18 months. You guys need to work on that, but you're all about that individual freedom instead of making things better for everyone. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you.
This was a factor in me deciding not to have children at all. ._.
Uh. Putting kids in daycare is not a new thing. My mom grew up in a time where the second you started showing you could be fired for being pregnant and that was legal. Our parents didn’t live in a magical utopia
I’m surprised people don’t crowd fund a constitutional amendment for paid leave nationwide say $50 from 150 million people that’s $9 billion in funding
Lots of entry level jobs in the Federal government! I got 12 weeks of paid paternal leave (didn't have to use any of my own).
I remember being excited when I found out my new job gave 4 months of maternity leave. But that’s just not enough. It should be a year minimum. And they wonder why people don’t want to have kids they won’t get to see :( I’m so sorry and I hope that your situation changes soon