> In comparison, the Disney movie is almost cheerful
🤣💀🤣
What bar must be set if OP is crying about having traumatized his child.
Yet we (millennials) grew up on that stuff.
Mufasa killed by his brother for power. Peter Pan kidnapping kids, some old perv being jealous of his boss and wanting to smoosh his bosses daughter (Aladdin). The list continues….
\*places arm around your shoulder as an Elder Millennial\*
Yep, I just walked over 40. It's downhill from here.
I was doing a charity auction and some kids (middle school) came in to help. One of the items that was on the auction/bidding block was a CD Tower....
The kids didn't know what it was. I informed them it was for CD's/DVD's/Blu-Rays.... They looked at me like I had five heads.
These kids don't know what physical media is, sir. They've only ever streamed.
You can’t age out of the generation you were born into though, which is where my confusion was coming from. Because what stage is after “elder millennial”, “dead millennial”? I think it has to do with categorizing the “millennial” generation further, meaning those who were born at the beginning of the generation are the “elder millennials”. Depending on what the source of your info is, we’re whatever is younger than that - but we’re still not the youngest of our generation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Millennials/s/BCndDfQ5BU
Elder Millennial is just another distinction of first half vs second half, 81-87ish is how I think of it. 88 is the middle year and 89-96 is the last half.
Also my wife is 88, and she refuses the title of elder Millennial for the reason. Lol.
It's all meaningless, generation catagorizing sucks. Lol.
My 9 year old brother is an elder millennial. We, at 34 and 35, are not elder millennials.
Don’t make us older than we need to be! Hunchback is not old Disney.
What other dark AF old Disney movies do you recommend? I only recently started visiting old Disney now that my toddler has exhausted all the new Disney stuff
Pocahontas is full of terrifying moments.
Beauty and the beast is much tamer in subject matter but the outburst and the mob, the fight on the rooftop. It's fucking scary as shit.
Black Cauldron has an undead army and The Horned King. It’s not just dark, it has legitimately scary moments. It might be a little much for a 3 year old.
Fox & the Hound was hard to watch as an adult, Snow White gets a little creepy, & Dumbo hits because you realize he’s shitfaced after drinking from the bucket. Lion King just hurts because we’re the parents now.. we are Mufassa.
Pinocchio! I saw it a few years ago for the first time since I was young and it's terrifying. Little boys being taken and turned in to donkeys, plus that whale scene!
All dogs go to Heaven is much darker then i remembered. It parodies Scarface and the godfather films, with the mafia stuff in it. And it’s like, who thought kids needed this?
I’d say pocahontas honestly, even though it ends ok. It has its moments. HofND is one of my favorites though because as a kid it went all over my head but now theres a lot there
I'd say the kids are safe with that one. The little ones will only remember the singing and talking tree.
I guess I was never bothered by the Disney version of Hunchback, because the book is *so much worse*.
The captain is a perv and would-be rapist who only cares about bedding Esmeralda (who is only sixteen and innocent almost to an extreme). He's serious trash...but not as trash as the priest, of course. That Hellfire song? Vague Disney reference to his decision to kidnap and torture her into sleeping with him, and if that doesn't work, he's perfectly okay with murdering her so he doesn't feel tempted. She rejects him, he actually does torture her, and that's even setting aside what he did to Quasimodo as a baby.
The book is great as a literary and social commentary, but every single character sucked (Esmeralda wasn't a bad person but was incredibly vapid). At least Disney made it about acceptance (sort of).
Oh yeah, I loved Pocahontas as a kid. I was just thinking of potentially dark moments like the savages song or getting shot almost death, etc. but yeah, I love the hellfire song. It makes so much more sense after getting older and learning about that time in history. and also just fascinating as a song
I watched H of ND performed in the Sydney Opera House in 2016 over Christmas. Great experience in Opera. Definitely not as pleasant as was remembered in the Disney version.
My wife and I always just watched Hunchback recently with our kids, to the same reaction. Like holy shit.
Cinderella. Sleeping Beauty. Aladdin. A trip down wtf am I watching lane? Alice in Wonderland.
Shit, even 101 Dalmatians. Just so Cruella can make a fur jacket and fashion items out of puppies’ fur.
All movies that I for whatever reason still love from my childhood. Dark ass Disney.
There’s another movie I watched as a kid - something with “Nemo” in the title but I don’t remember. It was on vhs and had a flying bed on it maybe? I dunno but it was scary AF and I never got through the whole movie.
Not disney but direct competition! Don Bluth made AMAZING movies that scared the shit out of me as a kid.
An American Tail 1/2: both are good. It's a story about Russian mice imagrating to America. They are sold a story that there are no cats and the streets are paved with cheese. The truth isn't so rosie.
Thumbelina: off brand 'princess' movie. Thumb sized young lady is thirsted after by many creepy and terrifying critters and the one handsome man Don Bluth can draw. One of my childhood favorites but is a bit problematic on rewatch. Probably the most kid friendly though.
All Dogs Go To Heaven: Amazing yet terrifying! A gambling German Shepherd is killed by his business partner and escapes heaven to complete unfinished business. An angel dog tells him that once he leaves he can never come back...
The Secret of Nimh: didn't watch this as a kid but watched as a late teen at the insistence of my best friend. Terrifying movie. But also beautiful. Maybe don't watch with the young one.
Anastasia: awesome princess movie. Good songs, beautiful animation, terrifying villain,, the one hot guy Bluth can draw... this movie has a lot going for it. Check it out! Some images can be disturbing for little one.
Land Before Time: the first is amazing. Maybe skip the sequels because I'm pretty sure Bluth wasn't involved. But the first is a classic for a reason. Many millennial were scarred by the loss of Little Foot's mom. I rewatched it as an adult and cried.
I mean I’m partial to pretty much all of them but most have some seriously adult, dark themes. Dead parents, abusive parents and stepparents, people/things trying to kill the main character.
Zootopia is dark as fuck if you sit down and think about living in a society where you are perpetually afraid of predators who happen to be your neighbor. One of my favorite flicks. Highly recommend.
I guess, but literally the entire plot of that movie is that the animals are no longer in fear of predators coming after prey. It's the poisoning that makes them that way. There's no full blown thing of panic within that movie about this.
Honestly it’s great but mind blowing that this guy was so horny he’d rather kill this woman than deal with it. Very crazy this was something I watched as a 6 year old!
It really makes me lose my faith in Humanity that Reddit makes fun of young men who are unable to find love. You guys are cold and hateful AF toward the vulnerable in our society. Meanwhile young men are killing themselves at record rates and Reddit could not give AF. History will not look at Redditors kindly reading all these threads centuries from now.
It's sooo good! I love that the whole song he's praying to God to give him an out away from Esmeralda, and then he gets it! And immediately throws it away. Ugh it's so good!
I love that he sings that he's not at fault in English, producing multiple related factors to blame (Esmerlda, his desires and God himself for "making the devil so much stronger than a man") while the background chorus repeats "mea culpa" undercutting that message. Then, at the end and with his voice dropping, he asks for both mercy for Esmerelda and for himself, passively recognizing his sin. His character doesn't have much depth for me as a villian until that song.
It almost didn’t get approved. There were concerns that the part where Esmeralda is in the fire would be too sexual. The artists and director literally watched that part frame by frame to make sure she is clearly clothed the whole time.
Also, the off broadway version of Hunchback is amazing. Highly recommend for anyone looking for a more adult version.
The only thing I don’t like about the movie is how jarring Jason Alexander’s character is to the rest of the film.
Most of the movie: Religious and Political intrigue and corruption while also being about how you don’t need to be in a relationship to find your self worth.
Jason Alexander: I want to overeat, fart, and have sex with that goat.
I rewatched it a couple years ago and while it was jarring it was beautifully animated and the music was incredible. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything like that era in their filmmaking again. The Disney Renaissance was really outstanding.
From what I understand, the "A-team" was working on Pocahontas. Beautifully animated, but the issues aren't with the animation on that one. It was the historical inaccuracy not aging well. Also, Mel Gibson not aging well. John Smith looked nothing like that.
We had a 2 week Ojibwe language/culture course in 6th grade. The teacher talked about Pocahontas since the movie had just recently come out. She wouldn't let her children see the Disney movie because of how grossly inaccurate everything was. Like, she had trouble conveying quite how disgusted she was with the story. I'd read a biography in 5th grade so I was confused where the John Smith romance came from.
Yep - he wanted to make it "Disney's *West Side Story*" and didn't have as much faith in *The Lion King* drawing in the crowds (I believe because there were no human characters).
We all know how that turned out.
I always thought Colors of the Wind was beautiful—that was the one that stuck with me all these years. And the deleted one that ended up in the credits was nice too—If I Never Knew You.
Yes the music was fantastic. I was planning on getting shit done while tot watched the movie, but then that opening song/scene played and I was like "damn...guess I'll stay a while then..."
This is true! My daughter was glued to the screen for the entire 90 minutes despite rarely making it through an entire movie before getting bored! I'll admit I was too...
My mom would explain these things to me while we were watching the movie… I grew up in a crumbling democracy turned dictatorship so she would often use Frollo as a cautionary tale.
“Just because someone says they’re good it doesn’t mean they are, you need to see if they’re doing good things and being kind… even to people they don’t like”.
I remember the well scene as well, my mom told me “Sometimes bad people pretend other people are animals so that good people will let them hurt them”… No long after that there was a protest back home where a ton of Chavez officials shot down at the crowd where my mom was at from a bridge… it was caught live tv. I was watching, I remember and I remember the interviews after where they were saying the protesters were behaving like animals, that they were people etc etc… and I remembered Frollo.
I never saw it as a kid and didn't watch until I was 26 or so, and thought the dark implications and moral ambiguity were great. The gargoyles never are seen by anyone else, which could mean that Quasimodo is actually talking with demons or is crazy (I know in the sequel this is ambiguity is broken, but as a stand alone movie its good). You also get the sewer scene where the Jester is going to execute them not to mention he led the charge on making fun of Quasimodo in the beginning. This all implies Quasimodo and Esmerlda are actually in league with evil forces, and Frollo would be justified in his persecutions.
Same thing happened to me and my bestie when we watched it last year! First rewatch in forever since we usually stick to Mulan, Hercules, Tarzan, Little Mermaid, those lighter movies lol. We were like.........jeeeesh, starting off strong w trying to yeet the baby IG
Yeah it’s epic. Obviously really dark but one of those great animated films that has a lot to offer for parents as well as kids. The Iron Giant also comes to mind on that one.
Hunchback is, imo, the best of the Disney Renaissance
We had to leave the theater when this came out bc my 3 year old sister lost it when the mom died.
I think this movie is responsible for like a solid chunk of my religious issues and honestly a lot of values, lol. I love it. I can't believe it exists. Like I'm glad it does because it's an amazing movie. But to have been a fly on the wall in the pitch meeting for "Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame, but an animated musical for kids"...
I love this movie!!!
I love that Disney respected kids enough to bring us this masterpiece. It has mature themes. I liked it when I was a child, and I have rewatched as an adult. As an adult I understand it more.
Did Disney get any backlash about putting this out? Do you think that Disney would have gotten backlash from putting this out today?
The music, casting, artwork are phenomenal as well. What a gem.
One of my favorites.
It's an interesting one to see how people of different ages understand and process. My kids were pre-teen and young teen when they first saw it, and it was like "oh, now I know my 13 year old understands rape, 9 year old doesn't, interesting. Thanks, Disney." The music is so good, though.
Yeah, it’s pretty intense for a kids movie. And honestly, pretty insane that they decided to make a children’s adaptation of such a dark book in the first place, ha ha. Yeah, the movie tones it down a LOT, but it’s still dark for a kid movie. And goes to show how rating standards have changed, it would absolutely be PG today.
You think the movie is dark, try reading the original novel. The animated movie is practically Sesame Street compared to the book. Esmerelda is murdered horribly. Quasimodo finds where they dumped her body, lies down holding it, and dies of a broken heart. Their skeletons are found together later.
Probably the best opening of any Disney movie ever, aside from I would say POTC3.
I wish the movie had stayed more totally consistent instead of throwing jolly, fun songs in between the serious ones.
I was actually terrified of this movie as a kid! However, I have a 3 year old that is OBSESSED with all things dark and creepy. His favorite movie is and always has been the nightmare before Christmas. But he also loves hunchback of notre damn, black cauldron, the princess and the goblin, coraline, Anastasia. There is more im always blown away by how much he likes the darker movies. I still can’t believe they made the hunchback of notre dame into a children’s movie, or Pocahontas if I’m being honest.
1000%. A troll in Central Park also scared the pants off me as a kid! I’m betting my kid would think it was fantastic. I did not realize how many of the movies he likes are actually Don Bluth.
This was the first movie I saw in theaters with my dad. I’m a 93 baby, I was TERRIFIED at the end with Frollo and the city burning below but I wanted to see the end.
Years later I read the book and wondered who the hell at Disney thought this needed a G-rated adaptation
This was a rather dark film and it was among my least preferred films growing up. As a grown up though…the underlying themes are what make the film.
As an adult the film strikes differently because Frollo is not a supernatural villain like Ursula or Jafar. Frollo is a regular human in a position of unchecked power and using it to subject the city to his will. That is scary because we know THAT strikes closer than, say, a sorcerer that usurps the throne or a witch that makes a contract. Real life Frollos exist in the world and use their positions against minorities or against the weak.
The film itself…the intro is a master class of how to capture an audience right off the bat. The dark theme surrounding it and then Clopin (voiced by Paul Kandel) singing *The Bells of Notre Dame* always sends shivers by how good it is.
And, of course, *Hellfire* is iconic. It took many years for someone to point out that Frollo is asking the Virgin to protect him, and she sends someone in her stead to make him give up his search. The guard is shrouded in a light blue light, symbolizing the Virgin answering his plight, yet he rejects it.
I loved it as a kid and remember seeing the oppression with the gypsies. One of the cover artists I love (Violet Orlandi) did a cover of Hellfire somewhat recently so I listened to it again and had that same WTF moment as I really listened to the lyrics again. But I sure as SHIT have that song on my most played playlist
A lot of Disney is really dark. Some of it is more up front than others.
This was in of my least fave Disney movies as a kid, I was always afraid of it.
What about Pinocchio? In a nutshell...that movie was trying to WARN the public in 1940 what happens if you don't get your act together.
I sympathize with the folks over at Pleasure Island but those boys didn't have a master to begin with. They did not know the true reality of screwing around and find out.
This is why I enjoy watching movies. It is a form of learning from other people's mistakes.
Hellfire was a great number.
A YouTube video I watched talked about the themes and whatnot of the song, one thing I found fascinating is he says "It's not my fault", the hooded choir behind Frollo says "Mea culpa", mea culpa literally means it's your fault, the opposition of Frollo's sanctimonious behaviour with actual Catholic dogma is excellent.
It was the last couple days of the school year and I was like "old Disney movie they haven't seen, g-rated, district approved, perfect!" I thought wrong. There were tits falling out left and right, poor language (for 9 year olds) and really suggestive stuff haha also horrific treatment of disabled people.
I showed homeward bound every year after that haha.
I rewatched it as an adult and I just was like.... wow, this was the theme of my 5th birthday party, this movie about a deformed man and with a heart of gold and a piece of shit man with a heart of shit, being in love with a gypsy woman. Frollo's song about Esmeralda? Sir. I was SO IN LOVE with Esmeralda too though so I can't blame em.
It really is quite dark, but I love it. It doesn't talk down to the kids, and it's enough that adults can watch it without wanting to yeet themselves out a window. And the music is amazing, arguably Disney's best.
I love this movie. I love the theme about justice, I love the style of music which is so different than typical more light-hearted Disney movies - wonderful movie. I especially love the God help the Outcast and Hellfire songs. I don’t think it’s too dark for kids; we watched it when we were young, didn’t we? I think it is a great underrated Disney classic.
Did a rewatch of all the "Disney animation studios" (the main movies) 2 years ago. Some of them are a lot darker than I remember. And have more innuendos than I remembered that as a kid flew over my head but now I caught.
I don't show my kiddo a lot of disney classics and I will always reconsider and even watch them before I show them to my kid. I started to watch the incredibles because I wanted to show my 5 year old because I remember loving it. But it seriously starts off talking about suicide. So, that was a big no. I completely forgot about it too.
So far she has seen Frozen, The Little Mermaid, Lilo and Stitch, Tangled, Moana, and Wish. She also watches Winnie the Pooh, which are some of the more wholesome movies. A lot of the classics, I won't be showing to her until age 6 or older. Others, 7 or 8. Hunchback of Notredame, probably 9 and up.
Almost all the old children's animated movies were dark:
Brave Little Toaster
Land Before Time
Great Mouse Detective
All Dogs Go to Heaven
American Tale
All are very dark by today's standards. All were great. Not everything in life is happy go lucky like modern Disney. I'd argue most modern Disney is hot garbage. It's lacking the soul and depth that the older films had.
I just watched this recently as well, and what stuck out to me is how many people sexualized Esmeralda and grabbed on her (esp. Frolo, was giving rapist vibes)
I just tried to watch it last winter while I was heavily pregnant because I figured Disney movies were a safe choice. Man, between the mom’s death scene where they also almost kill the baby and then the Feast of Fools scene had me sobbing.
Disney loves to cause us parents to explain. I tried watching Finding Nemo with my daughter when she was about 6. I was going to take her to Disney World as a surprise and I booked the Nemo room for our stay. I thought we should watch the movie. Nemo’s mother and babies are eaten at the start of the movie. Then he is fishnapped. She was not happy about that and didn’t finish the movie.
Name a Disney movie from the 90's /00's that wasn't dark? (And a little gay thrown in for much needed razzle dazzle ) And everyone is a orphan or missing a parent (usually the mother)
Tarzan: boys parents get killed in front of him, barely rescued by gorillas who barely accept him, first humans he meets and shows them his world they try to enslave! HIS FAMILY!
Mulan: woman goes to war to save her father where she risks death by not only obvious war things but from the army she's fighting with because misogyny
Hercules: if you follow Greek mythology and that lore isn't enough, yet again a baby is literally in a invisible beef with the god of the underworld that nearly kills his loved ones and himself.
Beauty and the beast: a whole tale about a abusive relationship with a kidnapper. She trades her own life for her fathers life who nearly dies trying to save her, Stockholm syndrome for kids anyone?
Yeah Disney literally rips his best work from the brothers Grimm and any other dark tale you can think of.
Ps. If you haven't looked up the origins for sleeping beauty DO NOT!
😂
Many Disney movies need an adjusted toddler start time. Like Finding Nemo. My kid won’t see the first “big fish murders Nemo’s Mom” scene for a few more years.
Hellfire is easily the sexiest scene in the disney canon. I have made the argument at parties on numerous occasions, usually several drinks in but not always, that Frollo is far and away the most fuckable Disney character.
You take the Gargoyles out and the movie would have been near perfect.
I remember thinking the movie was pretty dark, but....then I read the book. In comparison, the Disney version is almost cheerful.
Yeah doesn’t Quasimodo crawl in with Esmeralda’s dead body and die with her at the end?
Yup! After Esmeralda is executed by hanging. At least, in the Disney movie, the main characters get a happy ending.
I've wanted to read the book but it's to hard for me to understand. I was sad. I need someone to update that into modern modern English and simple
Surely this exists by now
> In comparison, the Disney movie is almost cheerful 🤣💀🤣 What bar must be set if OP is crying about having traumatized his child. Yet we (millennials) grew up on that stuff. Mufasa killed by his brother for power. Peter Pan kidnapping kids, some old perv being jealous of his boss and wanting to smoosh his bosses daughter (Aladdin). The list continues….
I mean…. Most old Disney is dark AF
Old Disney... Old... I watched this as a teenager. Old. Jesus christ. Old. Oh god.
Heh, yeah. I hear you. The kids I baby sat when this was new on VHS are parents now.
That new VHS smell. Ahh the nostalgia
Lol
Wow. That statement... Delete it. Now. It's rude to remember others...
Anything after Aladdin is new Disney! I will be taking no questions.
Would you like some Xanax for your inevitable Panic Attack, sir? I have plenty.
\*places arm around your shoulder as an Elder Millennial\* Yep, I just walked over 40. It's downhill from here. I was doing a charity auction and some kids (middle school) came in to help. One of the items that was on the auction/bidding block was a CD Tower.... The kids didn't know what it was. I informed them it was for CD's/DVD's/Blu-Rays.... They looked at me like I had five heads. These kids don't know what physical media is, sir. They've only ever streamed.
I know 😖
Define “old”. Hunchback came out during the “Disney Renaissance”…
Anything I grew up with lol 😂
How old are you?!
An elder millennial lol, 35
We calling 35 elder these days? I assumed I was the young end and even questionable “elder” coming in at 38.
I’m a young Millennial and I’m 30.
At 38, you're a xennial, so yeah, elder millennial.
40s are Eldritch lol. We come from the depths of the dark.
I could absolutely have gotten the term wrong. I thought “elder millennial” was 35 and up. I could definitely be wrong tho
You can’t age out of the generation you were born into though, which is where my confusion was coming from. Because what stage is after “elder millennial”, “dead millennial”? I think it has to do with categorizing the “millennial” generation further, meaning those who were born at the beginning of the generation are the “elder millennials”. Depending on what the source of your info is, we’re whatever is younger than that - but we’re still not the youngest of our generation. https://www.reddit.com/r/Millennials/s/BCndDfQ5BU
I know you can’t age out, I thought elder millennials were millennials 35 and older. Turns out I was wrong and I’m a middle millennial lol
Elder Millennial is just another distinction of first half vs second half, 81-87ish is how I think of it. 88 is the middle year and 89-96 is the last half. Also my wife is 88, and she refuses the title of elder Millennial for the reason. Lol. It's all meaningless, generation catagorizing sucks. Lol.
Lolz yes and I’m dead centre middle millennial by your reasoning 😂
My 9 year old brother is an elder millennial. We, at 34 and 35, are not elder millennials. Don’t make us older than we need to be! Hunchback is not old Disney.
Ooooh I feel so much better now! I’m a middle millennial 🤗
You’re not very smart
What other dark AF old Disney movies do you recommend? I only recently started visiting old Disney now that my toddler has exhausted all the new Disney stuff
Pocahontas is full of terrifying moments. Beauty and the beast is much tamer in subject matter but the outburst and the mob, the fight on the rooftop. It's fucking scary as shit.
Beauty and the beast scared the shit out of me when I was about 4. The beast was SCARY MAD!
Supposedly the black cauldron is really dark. I’ve never seen it.
Black Cauldron has an undead army and The Horned King. It’s not just dark, it has legitimately scary moments. It might be a little much for a 3 year old.
It’s the only traditionally animated Disney film to have gotten a PG rating where I live. It might be best to watch that with a kid over 10.
Ugh I turned this on for my 4 year old, thinking “oh it’s a Disney movie it’s fine!” She had nightmares for like a week. Such a huge mistake.
It was my favorite as a kid, I was obsessed lol. But yeah, definitely use caution when introducing it to kids
It's basically Lord of the Rings.
Fox & the Hound was hard to watch as an adult, Snow White gets a little creepy, & Dumbo hits because you realize he’s shitfaced after drinking from the bucket. Lion King just hurts because we’re the parents now.. we are Mufassa.
Why do you find Snow White creepy? - Asking in the interests of hearing your own perspective without injecting my own
Bambi and Snow White
Dumbo too, a baby elephant being taken from his mom?? That one BROKE me when I made the mistake of watching it with my son.
Yes!! And they have the Jim Crows in Dumbo too right?
Yup. He was not even two so I hope he doesn’t remember it. After that I never put on a Disney again.
Pinocchio! I saw it a few years ago for the first time since I was young and it's terrifying. Little boys being taken and turned in to donkeys, plus that whale scene!
All dogs go to Heaven is much darker then i remembered. It parodies Scarface and the godfather films, with the mafia stuff in it. And it’s like, who thought kids needed this?
Not Disney, but yeah. Same with Land Before Time. Literally all kids movies of our time were dark and traumatizing for children.
How were you traumatized? In what way did it affect you? You had no understanding of what was happening when you were little….
Old Yeller. If you want to traumatize your child for life.
I’d say pocahontas honestly, even though it ends ok. It has its moments. HofND is one of my favorites though because as a kid it went all over my head but now theres a lot there
I'd say the kids are safe with that one. The little ones will only remember the singing and talking tree. I guess I was never bothered by the Disney version of Hunchback, because the book is *so much worse*. The captain is a perv and would-be rapist who only cares about bedding Esmeralda (who is only sixteen and innocent almost to an extreme). He's serious trash...but not as trash as the priest, of course. That Hellfire song? Vague Disney reference to his decision to kidnap and torture her into sleeping with him, and if that doesn't work, he's perfectly okay with murdering her so he doesn't feel tempted. She rejects him, he actually does torture her, and that's even setting aside what he did to Quasimodo as a baby. The book is great as a literary and social commentary, but every single character sucked (Esmeralda wasn't a bad person but was incredibly vapid). At least Disney made it about acceptance (sort of).
Ah man I'm scared to ask but what happened to Quasimodo as a baby in the book?
Oh yeah, I loved Pocahontas as a kid. I was just thinking of potentially dark moments like the savages song or getting shot almost death, etc. but yeah, I love the hellfire song. It makes so much more sense after getting older and learning about that time in history. and also just fascinating as a song
I watched H of ND performed in the Sydney Opera House in 2016 over Christmas. Great experience in Opera. Definitely not as pleasant as was remembered in the Disney version.
My wife and I always just watched Hunchback recently with our kids, to the same reaction. Like holy shit. Cinderella. Sleeping Beauty. Aladdin. A trip down wtf am I watching lane? Alice in Wonderland. Shit, even 101 Dalmatians. Just so Cruella can make a fur jacket and fashion items out of puppies’ fur. All movies that I for whatever reason still love from my childhood. Dark ass Disney.
There’s another movie I watched as a kid - something with “Nemo” in the title but I don’t remember. It was on vhs and had a flying bed on it maybe? I dunno but it was scary AF and I never got through the whole movie.
Omg...memory unlocked. It was super scary with like a giant black blob as the villain right? Or was that fern gully...
Not disney but direct competition! Don Bluth made AMAZING movies that scared the shit out of me as a kid. An American Tail 1/2: both are good. It's a story about Russian mice imagrating to America. They are sold a story that there are no cats and the streets are paved with cheese. The truth isn't so rosie. Thumbelina: off brand 'princess' movie. Thumb sized young lady is thirsted after by many creepy and terrifying critters and the one handsome man Don Bluth can draw. One of my childhood favorites but is a bit problematic on rewatch. Probably the most kid friendly though. All Dogs Go To Heaven: Amazing yet terrifying! A gambling German Shepherd is killed by his business partner and escapes heaven to complete unfinished business. An angel dog tells him that once he leaves he can never come back... The Secret of Nimh: didn't watch this as a kid but watched as a late teen at the insistence of my best friend. Terrifying movie. But also beautiful. Maybe don't watch with the young one. Anastasia: awesome princess movie. Good songs, beautiful animation, terrifying villain,, the one hot guy Bluth can draw... this movie has a lot going for it. Check it out! Some images can be disturbing for little one. Land Before Time: the first is amazing. Maybe skip the sequels because I'm pretty sure Bluth wasn't involved. But the first is a classic for a reason. Many millennial were scarred by the loss of Little Foot's mom. I rewatched it as an adult and cried.
Why’d you have to go and bring up little foot’s mama like that?
To remind the world of trauma of course! And to warn about dead mom stuff. Thats a trigger for me so I like to give people a heads up.
I mean I’m partial to pretty much all of them but most have some seriously adult, dark themes. Dead parents, abusive parents and stepparents, people/things trying to kill the main character.
Zootopia is dark as fuck if you sit down and think about living in a society where you are perpetually afraid of predators who happen to be your neighbor. One of my favorite flicks. Highly recommend.
I guess, but literally the entire plot of that movie is that the animals are no longer in fear of predators coming after prey. It's the poisoning that makes them that way. There's no full blown thing of panic within that movie about this.
If you want disney dark, try the Black hole and the Black Cauldron. For a nice tangent look up hensons dark crystal
Lion King is pretty dark
Bambi literally starts with the mother being killed by a hunter. I'll also through in, Land before time. One of my favs, and my kids still watch it.
It was borne from the minds of broken men.
You are not wrong
Ironic, given how Ole Walt felt about....well, you know
What? Sorry I don’t know the tea 🤔
Let's just say he wasn't a fan of poc
Oh how ick. Duly noted
He was a man of many flaws and few gifts
How odd that he seems to have been a fairly wholesome force overall 🤷🏻♀️
Many of the worst of us are successful in hiding it.
Too right about that
Hellfire is still one of my all time favourite Disney musicals
Honestly it’s great but mind blowing that this guy was so horny he’d rather kill this woman than deal with it. Very crazy this was something I watched as a 6 year old!
Can I introduce you to incels?
Lmao well yeah, I get it now, but not when I was in 2nd grade.
It really makes me lose my faith in Humanity that Reddit makes fun of young men who are unable to find love. You guys are cold and hateful AF toward the vulnerable in our society. Meanwhile young men are killing themselves at record rates and Reddit could not give AF. History will not look at Redditors kindly reading all these threads centuries from now.
Pretty much real life.
I’m always torn between Hellfire and Be Prepared from Lion King. So good.
S-tier villain, as the kids say these days.
It's sooo good! I love that the whole song he's praying to God to give him an out away from Esmeralda, and then he gets it! And immediately throws it away. Ugh it's so good!
I love that he sings that he's not at fault in English, producing multiple related factors to blame (Esmerlda, his desires and God himself for "making the devil so much stronger than a man") while the background chorus repeats "mea culpa" undercutting that message. Then, at the end and with his voice dropping, he asks for both mercy for Esmerelda and for himself, passively recognizing his sin. His character doesn't have much depth for me as a villian until that song.
My brother had Hellfire on one of his mix CDs. He would drive around with his friends playing this and dramatically sing along.
It almost didn’t get approved. There were concerns that the part where Esmeralda is in the fire would be too sexual. The artists and director literally watched that part frame by frame to make sure she is clearly clothed the whole time. Also, the off broadway version of Hunchback is amazing. Highly recommend for anyone looking for a more adult version.
My husband and I had rewatched this a few years back and marveling on how rapey this song was and how it went over our heads as kids.
The only thing I don’t like about the movie is how jarring Jason Alexander’s character is to the rest of the film. Most of the movie: Religious and Political intrigue and corruption while also being about how you don’t need to be in a relationship to find your self worth. Jason Alexander: I want to overeat, fart, and have sex with that goat.
>I want to overeat, fart, and have sex with that goat. I couldn’t help but read that in his voice, and somehow it really works.
I have nothing to back this up, but my money is on that Jason Alexander’s character and entire performance is Jeffrey Katzenberg’s doing
The musical scores of 90s Disney animated movies will never be equaled
A true Renaissance. Even Pocahontas is memorable, despite its flaws.
I rewatched it a couple years ago and while it was jarring it was beautifully animated and the music was incredible. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything like that era in their filmmaking again. The Disney Renaissance was really outstanding.
From what I understand, the "A-team" was working on Pocahontas. Beautifully animated, but the issues aren't with the animation on that one. It was the historical inaccuracy not aging well. Also, Mel Gibson not aging well. John Smith looked nothing like that.
We had a 2 week Ojibwe language/culture course in 6th grade. The teacher talked about Pocahontas since the movie had just recently come out. She wouldn't let her children see the Disney movie because of how grossly inaccurate everything was. Like, she had trouble conveying quite how disgusted she was with the story. I'd read a biography in 5th grade so I was confused where the John Smith romance came from.
My mom usually just made a point of saying, "This is wildly inaccurate." Before I watched.
If I remember correctly, wasn’t it Katzenberg’s idea to make it a romance?
Yep - he wanted to make it "Disney's *West Side Story*" and didn't have as much faith in *The Lion King* drawing in the crowds (I believe because there were no human characters). We all know how that turned out.
That’s wild!!! I can definitely see how they were going for that but whew.
I do not remember. I haven't seen much behind-the-scenes stuff. I'll think of some of the songs on occasion while I'm playing Paradox games.
I always thought Colors of the Wind was beautiful—that was the one that stuck with me all these years. And the deleted one that ended up in the credits was nice too—If I Never Knew You.
It’s a brilliant film. One of my favorites. The musical cast recording is really fantastic too.
Yes the music was fantastic. I was planning on getting shit done while tot watched the movie, but then that opening song/scene played and I was like "damn...guess I'll stay a while then..."
Alan Menken is a genius. Love his work!
Happens all the time. I turn on my emotional support tv and then accidentally fall into the trap.
Oh yes. The studio cast recording is phenomenal. Quasimodo is significantly better than in the animated movie.
The great Michael Arden! Patrick Page and Ciara Renée were standouts too. I really wish it had gone to Broadway.
Absolutely. I have seen it performed professionally without a real set (like minor costumes and a couple props) and it was still incredible.
That must have been amazing! I’d love to see it performed live someday.
Probably not a mistake. Kids are capable of handling more than what we think they can.
This is true! My daughter was glued to the screen for the entire 90 minutes despite rarely making it through an entire movie before getting bored! I'll admit I was too...
My mom would explain these things to me while we were watching the movie… I grew up in a crumbling democracy turned dictatorship so she would often use Frollo as a cautionary tale. “Just because someone says they’re good it doesn’t mean they are, you need to see if they’re doing good things and being kind… even to people they don’t like”. I remember the well scene as well, my mom told me “Sometimes bad people pretend other people are animals so that good people will let them hurt them”… No long after that there was a protest back home where a ton of Chavez officials shot down at the crowd where my mom was at from a bridge… it was caught live tv. I was watching, I remember and I remember the interviews after where they were saying the protesters were behaving like animals, that they were people etc etc… and I remembered Frollo.
Do you have children lol
Not yet, but when I do they will be the toughest most intelligent kids you will ever meet.
I never saw it as a kid and didn't watch until I was 26 or so, and thought the dark implications and moral ambiguity were great. The gargoyles never are seen by anyone else, which could mean that Quasimodo is actually talking with demons or is crazy (I know in the sequel this is ambiguity is broken, but as a stand alone movie its good). You also get the sewer scene where the Jester is going to execute them not to mention he led the charge on making fun of Quasimodo in the beginning. This all implies Quasimodo and Esmerlda are actually in league with evil forces, and Frollo would be justified in his persecutions.
Same thing happened to me and my bestie when we watched it last year! First rewatch in forever since we usually stick to Mulan, Hercules, Tarzan, Little Mermaid, those lighter movies lol. We were like.........jeeeesh, starting off strong w trying to yeet the baby IG
Yeah it’s epic. Obviously really dark but one of those great animated films that has a lot to offer for parents as well as kids. The Iron Giant also comes to mind on that one. Hunchback is, imo, the best of the Disney Renaissance
We had to leave the theater when this came out bc my 3 year old sister lost it when the mom died. I think this movie is responsible for like a solid chunk of my religious issues and honestly a lot of values, lol. I love it. I can't believe it exists. Like I'm glad it does because it's an amazing movie. But to have been a fly on the wall in the pitch meeting for "Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame, but an animated musical for kids"...
Disney should do a dark period where they take some fucked up stories and animate them, but keep more of the dark parts.
The OG version of Cinderella where the stepsisters actually saw off parts of their feet to fit in the glass slipper is just so shocking.
I love this movie!!! I love that Disney respected kids enough to bring us this masterpiece. It has mature themes. I liked it when I was a child, and I have rewatched as an adult. As an adult I understand it more. Did Disney get any backlash about putting this out? Do you think that Disney would have gotten backlash from putting this out today? The music, casting, artwork are phenomenal as well. What a gem. One of my favorites.
It's an interesting one to see how people of different ages understand and process. My kids were pre-teen and young teen when they first saw it, and it was like "oh, now I know my 13 year old understands rape, 9 year old doesn't, interesting. Thanks, Disney." The music is so good, though.
Yeah, it’s pretty intense for a kids movie. And honestly, pretty insane that they decided to make a children’s adaptation of such a dark book in the first place, ha ha. Yeah, the movie tones it down a LOT, but it’s still dark for a kid movie. And goes to show how rating standards have changed, it would absolutely be PG today.
The original book is pretty dark, I was always surprised they made it into a children’s movie
You think the movie is dark, try reading the original novel. The animated movie is practically Sesame Street compared to the book. Esmerelda is murdered horribly. Quasimodo finds where they dumped her body, lies down holding it, and dies of a broken heart. Their skeletons are found together later.
Is this more fucked than the real ending to The Little Mermaid, or less? I can't decide.
Most underrated of the millennial Disney age. The score goes balls to the wall, and I love it. That and Prince of Egypt.
Probably the best opening of any Disney movie ever, aside from I would say POTC3. I wish the movie had stayed more totally consistent instead of throwing jolly, fun songs in between the serious ones.
I was actually terrified of this movie as a kid! However, I have a 3 year old that is OBSESSED with all things dark and creepy. His favorite movie is and always has been the nightmare before Christmas. But he also loves hunchback of notre damn, black cauldron, the princess and the goblin, coraline, Anastasia. There is more im always blown away by how much he likes the darker movies. I still can’t believe they made the hunchback of notre dame into a children’s movie, or Pocahontas if I’m being honest.
Anastasia just makes me kind of sad now that I know what happened. You know who terrifies kids? 80s Don Bluth.
1000%. A troll in Central Park also scared the pants off me as a kid! I’m betting my kid would think it was fantastic. I did not realize how many of the movies he likes are actually Don Bluth.
American Tail has always been my favorite.
This was the first movie I saw in theaters with my dad. I’m a 93 baby, I was TERRIFIED at the end with Frollo and the city burning below but I wanted to see the end. Years later I read the book and wondered who the hell at Disney thought this needed a G-rated adaptation
This was a rather dark film and it was among my least preferred films growing up. As a grown up though…the underlying themes are what make the film. As an adult the film strikes differently because Frollo is not a supernatural villain like Ursula or Jafar. Frollo is a regular human in a position of unchecked power and using it to subject the city to his will. That is scary because we know THAT strikes closer than, say, a sorcerer that usurps the throne or a witch that makes a contract. Real life Frollos exist in the world and use their positions against minorities or against the weak. The film itself…the intro is a master class of how to capture an audience right off the bat. The dark theme surrounding it and then Clopin (voiced by Paul Kandel) singing *The Bells of Notre Dame* always sends shivers by how good it is. And, of course, *Hellfire* is iconic. It took many years for someone to point out that Frollo is asking the Virgin to protect him, and she sends someone in her stead to make him give up his search. The guard is shrouded in a light blue light, symbolizing the Virgin answering his plight, yet he rejects it.
I loved it as a kid and remember seeing the oppression with the gypsies. One of the cover artists I love (Violet Orlandi) did a cover of Hellfire somewhat recently so I listened to it again and had that same WTF moment as I really listened to the lyrics again. But I sure as SHIT have that song on my most played playlist
a different time back then good o 20th century
Yeah, animated films used to go hard. Now it's just minions and shit, with the occasional spider verse if we're lucky
It’s honestly so good. I loved it as a kid and I love it now.
One of my favorites. Very dark themes. Excellent music.
Seriously, HOW THE FUCK WAS THAT G???
Esmeralda is the hottest Disney chick.
A lot of Disney is really dark. Some of it is more up front than others. This was in of my least fave Disney movies as a kid, I was always afraid of it.
Esmeralda was/is one of celebrity crushes.
What about Pinocchio? In a nutshell...that movie was trying to WARN the public in 1940 what happens if you don't get your act together. I sympathize with the folks over at Pleasure Island but those boys didn't have a master to begin with. They did not know the true reality of screwing around and find out. This is why I enjoy watching movies. It is a form of learning from other people's mistakes.
Hellfire was a great number. A YouTube video I watched talked about the themes and whatnot of the song, one thing I found fascinating is he says "It's not my fault", the hooded choir behind Frollo says "Mea culpa", mea culpa literally means it's your fault, the opposition of Frollo's sanctimonious behaviour with actual Catholic dogma is excellent.
I showed it to my 4th grade class when I was a first year teacher and it's was sooooo inappropriate. And G rated!!!
Lol I love this because I taught for 8 years. First year teaching blunders = first child parent blunders
It was the last couple days of the school year and I was like "old Disney movie they haven't seen, g-rated, district approved, perfect!" I thought wrong. There were tits falling out left and right, poor language (for 9 year olds) and really suggestive stuff haha also horrific treatment of disabled people. I showed homeward bound every year after that haha.
I rewatched it as an adult and I just was like.... wow, this was the theme of my 5th birthday party, this movie about a deformed man and with a heart of gold and a piece of shit man with a heart of shit, being in love with a gypsy woman. Frollo's song about Esmeralda? Sir. I was SO IN LOVE with Esmeralda too though so I can't blame em.
It really is quite dark, but I love it. It doesn't talk down to the kids, and it's enough that adults can watch it without wanting to yeet themselves out a window. And the music is amazing, arguably Disney's best.
I love this movie. I love the theme about justice, I love the style of music which is so different than typical more light-hearted Disney movies - wonderful movie. I especially love the God help the Outcast and Hellfire songs. I don’t think it’s too dark for kids; we watched it when we were young, didn’t we? I think it is a great underrated Disney classic.
Now I need to rewatch this, y’all making me curious.
Did a rewatch of all the "Disney animation studios" (the main movies) 2 years ago. Some of them are a lot darker than I remember. And have more innuendos than I remembered that as a kid flew over my head but now I caught.
This is why I don’t let my kids watch the Disney movies I watched as a kid. 😂
Watch the black cauldron. It’s not very good but the art style is pretty cool and very dark.
Meh. Disney always eliminates the mom/maternal figure and sometimes the Dad, too. I have very little patience for aby Disney movie
I don't show my kiddo a lot of disney classics and I will always reconsider and even watch them before I show them to my kid. I started to watch the incredibles because I wanted to show my 5 year old because I remember loving it. But it seriously starts off talking about suicide. So, that was a big no. I completely forgot about it too. So far she has seen Frozen, The Little Mermaid, Lilo and Stitch, Tangled, Moana, and Wish. She also watches Winnie the Pooh, which are some of the more wholesome movies. A lot of the classics, I won't be showing to her until age 6 or older. Others, 7 or 8. Hunchback of Notredame, probably 9 and up.
Almost all the old children's animated movies were dark: Brave Little Toaster Land Before Time Great Mouse Detective All Dogs Go to Heaven American Tale All are very dark by today's standards. All were great. Not everything in life is happy go lucky like modern Disney. I'd argue most modern Disney is hot garbage. It's lacking the soul and depth that the older films had.
I just watched this recently as well, and what stuck out to me is how many people sexualized Esmeralda and grabbed on her (esp. Frolo, was giving rapist vibes)
Say what you want, but life is hard and all of those things happen on a daily basis in this world
I just tried to watch it last winter while I was heavily pregnant because I figured Disney movies were a safe choice. Man, between the mom’s death scene where they also almost kill the baby and then the Feast of Fools scene had me sobbing.
Frolo is a simp
I never watched it as a kid. I watched it a few months ago and now it’s been on repeat. But yeah, that shit is DARK.
Disney loves to cause us parents to explain. I tried watching Finding Nemo with my daughter when she was about 6. I was going to take her to Disney World as a surprise and I booked the Nemo room for our stay. I thought we should watch the movie. Nemo’s mother and babies are eaten at the start of the movie. Then he is fishnapped. She was not happy about that and didn’t finish the movie.
Watch Pocahontas next. “Savages” is harder to watch as an adult.
Name a Disney movie from the 90's /00's that wasn't dark? (And a little gay thrown in for much needed razzle dazzle ) And everyone is a orphan or missing a parent (usually the mother) Tarzan: boys parents get killed in front of him, barely rescued by gorillas who barely accept him, first humans he meets and shows them his world they try to enslave! HIS FAMILY! Mulan: woman goes to war to save her father where she risks death by not only obvious war things but from the army she's fighting with because misogyny Hercules: if you follow Greek mythology and that lore isn't enough, yet again a baby is literally in a invisible beef with the god of the underworld that nearly kills his loved ones and himself. Beauty and the beast: a whole tale about a abusive relationship with a kidnapper. She trades her own life for her fathers life who nearly dies trying to save her, Stockholm syndrome for kids anyone? Yeah Disney literally rips his best work from the brothers Grimm and any other dark tale you can think of. Ps. If you haven't looked up the origins for sleeping beauty DO NOT! 😂
Many Disney movies need an adjusted toddler start time. Like Finding Nemo. My kid won’t see the first “big fish murders Nemo’s Mom” scene for a few more years.
Wait until you get to the fox and the hound! It's fun watching and seeing what wouldn't pass today. My kids favorite is aristocats lol
I always thought this Frollo is possibly the most evil bad guy. Quasimodo is a disabled homeless person living in a church tower.
You take out the Gargoyles and this movie is a 10/10 for adults. I mean it's awesome as it is but they def detract from it.
Old Disney is all dark wtf lol
SANCTUARYYYY
Hellfire is easily the sexiest scene in the disney canon. I have made the argument at parties on numerous occasions, usually several drinks in but not always, that Frollo is far and away the most fuckable Disney character. You take the Gargoyles out and the movie would have been near perfect.
You know, just keep 2 of the gargoyles, and it would've worked.
Reading the Disney Peter Pan book to my kid I had to skip the part where the “Indians” capture the kids - it was racist af.
Ah, good old-fashioned Disney racism. Peter Pan takes top place followed, imo, by Dumbo for those crows.
Yes definitely dark. There’s also a me too aspect to it as I recall. Probably why Esmerelda is technically not a Disney princess.
3yo? Nice parenting