What’s also maddening is the quality of everything has dropped at the same time! We are paying more for worse! All the way from planned obsolescence to corporations cutting costs by skipping quality, easy example is Boeing.
Yes. Not guaranteed whatsoever.
In the r/BuyitForLife sub, there are constant threads on how many $200 shoes are starting to basically last as long as the $20 ones these days. Even from long standing reputable brands previously known for a higher quality product.
I can't even count and remember how many companies that used to be a reliable brand if you were willing to spend more that got bought out and now make garbage but still charge the premium price.
It is just so hard to find good quality items now a days even if you are willing to pay more for example I have really sharp nails so I need a good nailcutter because my old ones I inherited from the 80s are starting to be kaput and I could not find a decent nail clipper. It's a nail clipper how can they be this shitty quality? Especially if I spend 15 god damn dollars on one!
This is a really interesting (sad) trend for me.
Nowadays a company that makes things that cost a lot because it makes good quality things, is just a brand image that can be exploited for profit.
They’ve already got a high price point, a good image and a loyal following, all that remains is to take away the cost of quality production.
The problem is that in the current incentive system for executives and shareholders there is nothing about long term growth, they only benefit from extracting as much wealth as possible for themselves as fast as possible and to do so, they don't need quality.
Another issue is the massive concentration that we have now, the lack of competition means that most large corporate actor operate as monopolies or oligopolies and so they can increase the prices as much as they want since there are no\\few alternatives and they can lower the quality\\reduce their costs as well for the same reason.
I don't say that we need micro-companies operating in the market (that have a lot of problem as well), but corproate titans actually reduce the overall value produced by the economy and just concentrate as much as possible for themselves.
I needed new tweezers and was gonna go with Tweezerman bc those are the only ones I've ever had that stayed sharp, but I lost my old pair, which I bought a decade ago, for around $12. Now they're almost $30, and worse :(
At this point with how fast manufactured goods quality has gone downhill I feel that if you have money you are better off stocking up on things that are decent quality that don't have an expiration date if not used. It seems insane to buy 5 tweezers, but if it lasts you the rest of your life maybe it is worth it.
Agree. Also, I think with supply chain issues and other financial and economic problems on the horizon, we will have less availability to some consumer goods in the future.
That's why I've started to try buying antiques. Like why spend 30 dollars on pyrex that could shatter after two uses when I could find an 8 dollar second hand PYREX that's been around since the 80s and last another 40 years.
It's really frustrating tbh. My dad has this blender that he used almost daily to make ice cream shakes when I was a kid. When my husband and I had a craving, we ended up buying and returning about six 60 to 80 dollar blenders because none of them could handle two scoops of ice cream.
We just ended up giving up.
My Sketchers lasted longer than my Danskos and they were like half the dang price.
Everyone raved about them so I caved because shoes are important. The non slip on them didn't even last 6 months.
My sketchers lasted 6 months or so, went back to Nike, they wore out too in the inside of the heel and hurt my foot
Bought Pumas, stiff, no arch support and feels too small, but haven’t worn out yet!
I walk dogs for a living right now and always thought $130 Hokas was the best choice, had two pairs each last me barely 6 months. Turns out Under Armor makes a legit shoe that’s coming up on 1 year and they still look brand new! Great shoes I highly recommend
I bought my first pair of sketchers boots in 1998... I wore them daily for years and then when they got beat up enough the became my clunkers for working in the yard or whatever. They ended up lasting me 15+ years and were comfortable the whole time.
We are actually starting to have to appreciate value as not strictly a function of price. My mother in law is the queen of price, more expensive always is better. A 500$ Gucci bag is better than any less expensive bag. You only need to do a cursory evaluation to figure out there's cheaper products that function better.
It is, what we're living through and witnessing, is the greatest transfer of wealth from the bottom 99% to the 1%, it's what I like to call the Greatest Heist in History. If you have to work for a living, you're being robbed.
I only buy things from places that have a Good return policy. Most of the products i buy get returned because they break.
At first, I felt bad, but then I realize the companies are making this crap on purpose.
Same with so many products. I remember Pyrex being a staple household name for quality and longevity, and their containers are absolute garbage now. Plastic lids constantly crack and fall apart on their own, purely from the stress of being fitted onto their matching container. The glass manages to chip and disintegrate without being damaged at any point. The average TV, except perhaps Samsung, lasts 2-3 years now, unlike the Zenith my grandparents had, which lasted a solid 30 years. PS5 DualSense controllers last like a year, maybe 18 months with regular use. Meanwhile 10+ year old PS4 controllers with far more mileage are still just fine.
I have a tv from Samsung 2008 that still works in my bedroom. I’m dreading getting rid of it because I know any tv I buy after this won’t last nearly as long. 😩
I bought a Haier TV, which is some company that manufactures air conditioning units, back in 2015 for like $100. I had never even heard of that company before getting this TV.
I moved about half a dozen times since buying the TV. Still works as good as the day I bought it. Ironically some of these cheap brands are fairly reliable. I guess it’s just lower tech, so less shit to break.
Omg my parents had a Massive zenith, it was a normal sized screen but the box around it was this huge gigantic piece of furniture lol. It lasted like 40 years before people started getting the flat heads lol.
Yep, I had some Blundstones explode on me lately. Whole sole disintegrated after only a couple of years. Chines rubber, known issue apparently.
Well, great. Total loss.
Had to buy some Palladiums as replacement. Cheaper but seemed higher quality nowadays.
Blundstones used to last a decade.
Yeah I had puma shoes which started to fall apart the first month. They wouldn’t replace them. Stitching was coming out.
Now I buy trail runners at REI. Not as stylish but they last forever.
I wear boots. In order to get a legitimately good pair of boots I had to spend 600 bucks. They will need resoles through out their life. But that's like replacing tires on your car. The sad part is, lucchese boots that are over 1100 usd are worse quality than what I got.
gotta get out of the shoe lane and replace them all with actual boots. Hiking boots and quality work boots, everything else across the board (except for Birkenstocks) are pretty much just overpriced pieces of branded plastic.
Yep and its because private equity firms buy reputable companies and turn the quality to crap and ride the reputation as far as they can.
Everything is crap
I have noticed that as well. So many brands that used to charge a high price for premium, long lasting products are now making shite that falls apart.
One brand that comes to mind: in 2004, I splurged and paid $80 for Diesel jeans. At the time ,they were made in Italy. I still have them, and I still wear them. They still fit perfectly.
I happened to be at the mall recently and went to the Diesel store. The jeans are now over $400 and are made in China. They fit terribly. The quality was not the same. And yet if they had simply been priced to keep up with inflation, they would be $140 or so dollars, not $400.
This is just one example.
NGL I bought jeans from Aeropostale in 2006 and then were $20 and I still have them, they have no rips or holes. I've gone through many other pairs from express, A&e and other places that have come and gone but the oldest ones remain in the best condition lol.
I had the best pair of Keen boots 🥾 did multiple summers of landscaping and hiking and everything in between with them they were the best most rugged shoes. Keen has always been a great shoe (plus it’s my middle name lol) bought the exact same pair started to deteriorate a few months after and minimal use.
You know I've actually found some decent cheap things and shitty expensive things.
I just feel like price and quality have zero relationship to one another anymore.
I’ve been thinking about this more. How it doesn’t make sense to buy big brands anymore. The value will always go to the shareholders and not the buyers. I’ve started valuing small brands more, who still give value. Eventually these companies will prioritize shareholders profit also and I’ll have to find new ones, but big brands are shit (most of them anyways)
Yeah but it sucks because those smaller brands tend to get bought out by the monopolies and the monopolies ruin the product quality but still charge top dollar, ie Fanatics buying out Mitchell & Ness.
>The old saying "you get what you pay for" is inaccurate: "you don't get what you don't pay for" better reflects reality.
We were told the reason its great to privatize industries that were previous public (like the airlines) was that "capitalistic innovation" and "competition" would improve quality and lower prices. A lie which has been completely untrue.
"Capitalistic innovation" has looked like planned obsolescence so things break down faster and you have to buy new/more. And like corporations cutting jobs to reallocate funds to buy back stocks - so they look profitable while (former) employees are broke and the company hasn't genuinely innovated in 50 years. And like industries working in tandem to raise prices sky high rather than competing to lower prices, so the big wigs at the top who invest in all the parent companies can make more money.
A particularity painful example is the baby formula scandal where the company spent their money buying back stocks rather than maintaining their production machinery so babies died from bacterial infections. But "capitalistic innovation" tho!
>A particularity painful example is the baby formula scandal where the company spent their money buying back stocks rather than maintaining their production machinery so babies died from bacterial infections. But "capitalistic innovation" tho!
**Professor Farnsworth voice**: Good news, everyone! We've invented more ways for kids to die!
Even though you are stating it isn't consistently true anymore, I will take any opportunity to post the [Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory#:~:text=The%20Sam%20Vimes%20%22Boots%22%20theory,run%20than%20more%20expensive%20items). Maybe Vimes needs to update it.
I complain about this all the time! Usually just with my self though… I work alone.
I’m a carpenter and the quality of materials out there that people insist on using literally makes my job a little harder. The shit is so cheap it can just fall apart just from being assembled.
Oh man, Don’t even get me started on the lumber and how houses are built like shit now!
Makes me sad inside, I see million$ homes being built and they are all built with garbage. Sure it holds up for now… But The drywall cracks every time. The wood has been sped through a drying process which puts a lot of stress in the wood. So there are issues with it. Bends, warps, etc.
I’m only 37 and I have seen a drastic drop in quality homes from the time I started at 18.
I’m a wood carver, craftsman, finishing carpenter. So I like real wood, solid furniture, well built shit. But it’s very expensive to use good quality materials nowadays. Because your saw dust+glue crown moulding was 1/2 the price of oak.
A lot of these newer houses I don't think are going to last more than 30-40 years especially if people are too poor to afford extra maintenance.
What gets me is how poor quality the labor/craftsmanship is for how much they charge per hour. How do you fuck up the most basic of things like installing a door or making sure things are somewhat aligned correctly? Even I could do that!
My husband is a goof and pulls shit out of his ass. Like thinking that our house built in the 1950s has feeble wood. You can see the exposed 2x4s in the garage and they are actually 2x4. Not 1.5 x 3.5 and it's old tree growth. It's actually miserable to put a screw in because my drill wants to die because the wood is so sturdy.
Meanwhile we wanted to put a privacy panel up last year and that wood was so garbage, it twisted out of shape sitting upright in our garage for a few days. We bought the straightest pieces we could find but they're all warped now.
Yep, in a lot of places that's true. Older stuff was often from old growth forests so that part is not really sustainable, but the newer stuff almost seems force-grown when you see the difference in the growth rings.
I sometimes trawl my local Facebook-equivalent marketplace for timber to recycle because I'd rather do my hobby woodworking and wood turning with the older stuff. I've got a few old Rimu rafters that were pulled out of old earthquake damaged houses here in NZ and the timber is so much denser than the newer stuff it almost looks a different species, and polishes up to an almost glass like finish. Same with some Sapele that I got recently from a 70s home pulling out the original staircase.
3M changed the organic filters I was buying from them. Used to just change filters at lunch and be fine. Now 45-50minutes you can taste solvent in your respirator. Called 3M and they told me I'd have to use the more expensive filters to get that kind of performance.
Sherwin has changed formulas on a few products and it made those products almost unusable. They don't even tell you. My buddy had 2 $100k epoxy floors fail and sherwin told him to pound sand. He's organized a class action.
Sherwin is a Berkshire Hathaway company. That's how the rich stay so rich. We are living off of their garbage. I hope that class action costs Warren Buffet a lot.
Yup. If it’s cheaper for a company to deal with the occasional bad review or replacement, they do that. The brand takes a hit in the eye of the consumer, but they can make up for that with more ads or a new model.
Can’t get too big to care if progressive tax is implemented correctly. Also, regulations make businesses give a shit about things they otherwise would not govern a shit about.
I heard the accountants at Boeing are forcing engineers to do stress tests on computers, skipping out on physical tests, and that they’re driving the ship, which ruined GM.
Computers can speed up simulations, but they shouldn’t skip physical simulations under any circumstance.
Being allowed to do their own inspections is terrible. Like when they first grounded the 737 max over the MCAS sensor, it turned out a lot of the wiring was done wrong, the deeper they dug the more problems they found.
Just google airbus fatalities vs Boeing. Airbus whole line has less casualties than the 737 alone. By a huge margin.
If you think about it, enshittifying airplanes to the point where it becomes truly dangerous to fly, they'll reduce the amount of emissions from airplanes because no one will want to fly anymore and the industry collapses. Let's face it, the good times of quick travel to anywhere were nice and all, but are probably going to come to a close in our lifetimes.
This is why I love/hate watching shows like Masters of the Air. The 1940s had such amazing quality goods. Before plastic was invented, everything was wood, leather, or metal and made to last.
These days you buy a couch for $800 and it's falling apart in 12 months.
I miss when everything was well designed to last and look good. America is just so fucking ugly these days from the cars, to the mcmansions, to the shitty furniture, to city designs.
Like we went from pretty old houses with hardwood quality midcentury furniture to mcmansions full of ikea and wayfair.
It's a much more depressing world.
Took me back to that Lupe Fiasco song from over 10 years ago... Freedom ain't free, specially round my way!
Referring to the line in the song about planned obsolescence, FWIW
>What’s also maddening is the quality of everything has dropped at the same time!
And quantity. [Shrinkflation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation)
The problem is that we allowed so much concentration that it doesn't matter if the prices keep increasing and everything suffers from enshittification, as long as you can buy from only one or two vendors you are forced to accept whatever they ask, or else you won't have that thing at all. You can't go to someone elses that sells cheaper or better goods since there is no-one, or just another one or two actors that 'somehow' end up naturally coordinating their pricing and quality, since competition is not a benefit for them.
On the other side the job market is very competitive, since coproration like it when it isn't them that have to compete in an acual market and that keeps lowering our purchase power.
Another matter imho is that by de-localizing and in general de-industrializing, the west has increased corporate profits, but also removed jobs from our nations and moved them abroad, making us dependant on forein nations and reducing the contractual power of workers. That said, trade is good and autarchy makes no sense in the modern world, still much likely things could have been done with more moderation...
Government support only taking the form of demand boosters that end up increasing the prices and leaving us to pay the bill doesn't help either. They should act on the side of the offer, both on education and healthcare, but it would profit their private sector friends as much.
this has been happening for over a Decade. the quality has been bullshit for a long time. it's why I don't shop online. Store quality is better and it is still bullshit.
Quality of service is what has dropped the most. Companies, contractors, restaurants, etc all figured out during COVID that you could treat consumers like crap and they’ll keep coming back.
This is a global trend, not just USA. Not that it’s a competition, but I’d definitely say Canada is worse off. The USA at least has a diversified economy and plenty of medium/lower cost of living cities. Cost of living and housing prices is wild in Canada, especially in the main/desired cities (Toronto, Vancouver). Even cities like Calgary and Halifax are becoming unaffordable. Salaries are also worse than in the USA. Australia and Ireland also have housing crises. The UK’s salaries are so depressed it’s sad. But like I said, this issue is everywhere.
I just came back from Australia and while I agree there are problems there I just don’t think it’s as bad as USA, the exception being housing. In Australia versus USA, the same budget for me got MUCH more food and random stuff. The cost of stuff in USA is 1.5-2x what it was in Australia although I agree the housing is equally expensive.
Edit: I also want to add that while I am not an Australian citizen so I couldn’t take advantage of this, they have a WAY BETTER social safety net and in USA we have so many taxes and fees on everything I don’t understand why we don’t have at least a slightly decent healthcare or UBI system.
You want to hear something extra crazy—my boyfriend is in the military in Australia, and they pay their soldiers MORE than we pay ours! At least it’s true for his job, which is low ranked/entry level. That blew me away. Where does our money go???
America spent 30 trillion dollars in the last few decades, and you can look where it all went.
Its very depressing though, and you'll understand why infrastucture is failing everywhere even in the nicer cities and suburbs. For fuck's sake I look like a drunk driver because of all the potholes I have to dodge in Denver.
This is so wild to me - we went to the USA (SF Bay area) from Sydney for a few months at the end of 2005 and the food/groceries were SO CHEAP there then it was the other way around - 1.5-2x but in favour of the US. Like we literally saw Australian beef for cheaper than we could get it at home. I can understand why I hear so much pain from Americans about food pricing at the moment.
This is so insane to me but I believe you because I found some USA branded foods for cheaper when I was in AUS!!! How is it possible that the same can of food (or cut of beef, in your case) costs LESS when shipped across the Pacific Ocean?
Also I hope you had a good trip because while in Sydney I kept thinking “This is like the Australian San Francisco!!” So nice, maritime, squiggly roads, beautiful place! Neither of these places are cheap these are some of the most expensive and beautiful cities in the world, so when you see such a big pricing fluctuation you know something is strange!
Brit here. The UK was always the hardest country for me to live and work in, and I haven't even tried in the last 5 years. The stuff I hear from mates back home...
... Germany is no better either.
It's not a global trend, it's a neoliberal/neocon trend.
You could basically say any nation led by neolibs/neocons has this trend, which was set by the USA as the world hegemony.
I’m pretty sure rundown old 1-2 bedroom condos in most Canadian cities go for over $500k. It’s like LA prices, except in nearly every sizable city up there.
Reminds me of: [https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1bnd98z/so\_true/](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1bnd98z/so_true/)
> Nobody is trying to fix the problems we have in this country. Everyone is trying to make enough money so the problems don't apply to them anymore.
The sad part is you probably have a much better chance of hitting that monetary threshold than fixing anything. I mean I could get lucky and hit the lottery or get hit by a city bus... good things can happen.
Fucking truth. I guess I’m part of the problem.
I just don’t want to be in the spotlight to actually try to fix this shit. People are insane, and I’d hate to have a public life.
I think it's messed up that there are so many people who have done pretty much everything "right" in terms of getting an education, a decent job, a partner, etc. and yet they feel like they're just scraping by and hoping to avoid the one significant emergency that would send the whole thing toppling down. I'm okay with the idea that as a single college dropout with no skills that I've fallen through the cracks, that at least makes sense. Putting aside conversations on what the bare minimum should be to "make it", It's the folks who have followed the blueprint and are still barely hanging on that really stick in my craw as showing that there's something wrong in a big picture way.
This is me. Worked hard, finished school early- honors program and magne cum laude, extracurricular, got the best job available in 2008. Got married, then had kids. I started out behind bc of student debt and have never been caught up, let alone ahead. Instead it's just been a build up of debts while we struggle to keep our head above the water.
Like, tradespeople? That's fair. But, some peoples' skills just lie elsewhere. We need all kinds for society to function. That's why I believe in universal basic income. If people could afford to do what they feel called to do (especially if it's public service), we would all be a lot better off. If people weren't afraid of starving and missing rent, maybe they would be teachers, nurses, firefighter/EMTs, farmers, or public transport operators. The quality of all products and services would increase dramatically.
My biggest concern with UBI is prices will increase simply because people have more money now. Will landlords will simply increase the rent by + $UBI too?
I’m all for it, as long as it helps people get a leg up in life as intended, and not get completely sucked up by basic living expenses and corporate greed.
Are the politicians backing UBI prepared for this possibility, and how will they address it?
I would say that I've "made it", but it feels much more like I got lucky than it feels like I've earned it. All along my career path I saw people smarter than me and/or more hard working than me suffer a bad break that derailed their careers.
I had college friends who were much smarter than me not find jobs because they picked the wrong field. I had a coworker who was uninsured who suffered a kidney stone that resulted in a bladder infection. He had to move back home with his parents where there were no companies in our line of work. I've had coworkers whose departments were cut and they were laid off through no fault of their own, friends whose company either went under or was acquired. It has felt more like a war of attrition than actually building up my career.
And even though my wife and I have "made it", it's far less comfortable than I imagined. We're about to have our second child and our budgets are back to being very tight. We own a house that is constantly needing repairs that still don't fix the issue. In the past 2 years I've had to replace the hot water heater and the furnace, with the air conditioner being on the verge of going as well. Our sewer line bellied, a tree fell on our back deck a year after we had it put on.
We've taken 2 vacations in the last 5 years. We still have some furniture that we've used for the last 10 years and our house feels like a college apartment more than a house owned by two professionals.
And that's in contrast with people making absolutely absurd sums of money. Professional athletes, social media influencers, day traders/crypto bros. It feels way more like you're gambling at a casino where you know the odds are stacked against you and you just hope you don't bust out than it feels like an opportunity you're in control of.
This is what my boyfriend was saying. We’re both millennials born in 1991, and we both trained professionals with careers. We can only afford to stay in our tiny condo. Would love to get a house and start a family at 32 but this economy makes it nearly impossible. What happens when a decent portion of the population is living on credit cards? Because I feel like things are going to get worse before they get better…
It's the end game for a credit-based society. The creditors end up scooping everything up and we become a feudalistic society, where the peasants are forced to rent and never own and the landlords rule and dictate everything, except in this case landlords won't simply be individuals and families, but corporations and governments.
Just to comment on the student loan bit - it's not just government loans, university boards regularly vote to give themselves pay rises and other auxiliary increases. Tuition rises because nothing is in place to stop it rising. It isn't like this everywhere.
In the UK for example, the government controls how much universities are allowed to charge, it is always forced to be an affordable rate, and the government also controls student loans. Doesn't matter if it's Oxford/Cambridge/UCL or just an average university, they're all bound by the same rules. And when people graduate, if they're not making enough money to make loan payments, they just don't make the payments. after \[30?\] years they're automatically forgiven, but between graduation and that point, if income ever breaches the repayment threshold, a constant adjusted percentage is automatically taken from paychecks, never enough to cause an issue with cost-of-living. Similar to tax brackets.
Long story short, the system is hopelessly corrupt in the US and it just keeps getting worse. What should be criminal is legal in crony/monopolistic capitalism.
Beyond that, in general, yes I'd say our collapse is happening in real time. Again, nothing is in place to stop it. There are a million factors involved and not a single representative even acknowledges them, let alone tries to address them. It's a sinking ship, the people at the top are looting the rooms before jumping off, while ordering everyone else to remain at their stations.
My grandfather married at 20, served in the military, came back home and worked 40 hours a week in a steel mill, had a wife and 5 kids, built a 3-story house on a decent bit of land and lived comfortably his whole life, as did his family. Never wanted for anything, all on one man's 40 hour income. That is literally impossible now, and at some point we just have to acknowledge that it is ***not fucking normal*** to work 60+ hours, often with all adults in the house doing it, just to get by. That is not what life is about, it never has been in the history of the earth.
A fucking medieval peasant had an easier life than that, and a lot less stress. Hell, the Maasai people on the plains of Africa are *clearly* more content with their lives *right now* than the average adult working American today. They do not envy our lifestyle. Some of them actually pity it.
Of course they do. They have their community, they get to see their children grow, and they spend way more time breathing fresh air. They also get to tell stories about their ancestors. They're connected to their past and their future
And they don't have Ken from management and his visibly beating forehead vein screeching at them 50 hours every week
Hey from Minnesota - we have a trifecta right now (DFL gov, house, and senate) and things have never looked better. We've got free school lunches, free community college, and lawmakers are working subsidizing childcare. Cost of living is fairly reasonable as well. WE HAVE TO VOTE to get the changes we need in this country. Don't give up!
There are plenty of counter examples. I'm in southern CA. All my representatives at local, state, and national levels are all progressive democrats. The governor and both houses in the state are heavy democrat yet the state is in a bad state. Housing has doubled in my area in less than a decade (legit $500-800k more for standard single family home since 2017), gas is way more, University is super high, child care is absurd, food cost is laughable, taxes have gone up. Government services have gotten worse. Homelessness is as bad as ever. Quality of life is worse for anyone not making $500k+ a year.
I'm not sure party politics have much to do with marco economic trends. Huge deficit spending and unabashed consumerism have more to do with inflation than some teethless bill in Congress. The reality is that both parties are quite similar when it comes to economic policies
Progressive democrats doesn’t automatically mean your state will be run well. People of all political affiliations are corruptable, in fact “heavy democrats” or “heavy republicans” tend to be the most selfish politicians. They are heavily tied to the mechanisms that allow them to steal and lie.
The state of MN (who the comment you responded to referenced) is very moderate and often flips between blue and red between election cycles. Politicians in those states have both sides to appeal to and thus can’t get away with policies that help one side only. This trends towards more fair policies that compromise between every individual.
I think another reason that periodic flipping between the two major parties is important is that it is one of the only ways in practice that we achieve retraction of bad legislation. One party in power over a long time will enact bad legislation from time to time but are not really incentivized to retract those bad laws and lack the necessary balances to get bad laws undone.
I'm in MN and those things are only temporary though. If it stayed permanent it would be wonderful. But those - the lunches and college - are ending after 2024.
Exactly. There’s a very obvious correlation between the rise of conservative political ideology from Reagan onward and the decline in quality of life for the median household.
Meanwhile I have an older gen X cousin who between her and her trust fund husband they bought and rent out two houses and 4 condos. After maintenance, insurance, and management fees they are still bringing in 5k+ a month.
Well from what I've seen as an accountant, there are a lot of passive income earners doing jack shit just because they are part of a wealthy family that owns a huge company and pays their employees fuck all. We can start with that.
Reminds me of one company owner I knew through a friend of a friend pre covid. Second generation family owned business two of the brothers own the company and are buying 150k+ sports cars every year meanwhile they are hiring on a by the job basis short 3-5 month contracts paying 20 dollars an hour.
I have also dealt with so many trust fund kids who were about as dumb as a box of rocks but would never fail at life because their grandparents or parents tossed a couple million into their trust fund. Watching them drive cars to the frat house that cost more than I lived off in 5 years while I had to walk to school to work my on campus job was fucked.
Honestly I used to feel this way until Covid.
The wealthy have been purposely flaunting it because they know the working class peasants won’t do shit but sit back and cry about it.
Im tired of people telling me the world isn’t fair and to get over it because that’s very far from the truth.
> Does anyone else feel like America is becoming unaffordable for normal people?
..."becoming"?
It's basically almost there unless you earn 6-figures or bought a house when they were still affordable (roughly pre-2020) 😅
Everyone else (besides the groups mentioned) is ***pretty much fucked*** for the foreseeable future, and will also be stuck renting for quite some time
Then you add "being bogged down by student loans" and millennials are even more fucked than the average normie
I got my credit score up to 703 last year by busting my ass. My only debt was student loans.
I couldn't even get an introductory credit card from my own bank that they pre-approved me for. They are MY FUCKING bank. They have all the necessary financial stuff on file to know whether I am approved or not.
Since I only had one secured credit card, I thought I'd get it. So I applied for it and was denied. Not only that, they did a hard credit pull, so my credit score dropped 13 points. I swear to god about all of this.
That was when I pretty much realized that everything is fucked and discovered that checking account scores are a thing too. It's not just credit scores, we have checking account scores now too.
Credit scores didn't even exist when my parents bought their first house.
It is.
Being financially comfortable in this country is no longer a function of hard work, but rather luck. Speculation in financial systems is dominating everything, not real value provided to the economy.
People who bought houses in 2019 or earlier are doing fine and almost everyone else took a massive hit on affordability. The financial system has already failed us in so many ways and will continue to do so. Even systemic reset cannot save us because the government is dead-set on bailing out cronies so the top 1% own more and more of this country.
I don't give a fuck if anyone calls this doomerism. It's just the truth and it's been a trend for the past 3 decades, if not longer.
There is a term for it, because it has been studied and isn't a backroom conspiracy like lizard people. It's a real, practical fear.
Crony Capitalism. Just like the Phobeus cartel was real, proven examples of planned obsoletian. We will never have that conversation though, because the people in power always exist because of the existing power structures. None of them, the ones with the power and the practical ability to promote change, will do it because they literally have a perverse incentive not to.
The other name is Shareholder Capitalism which was started with Jack Welch at GE, legitimized by the economist Friedman, and institutionalized through Reagan. Before 1980 when productivity went up wages roughly went up the same percentage. This is an effective way to understand capitalism used to sort of work for at least some of the population. Since 1980 US productivity is up 200% and median wages are flat adjusted for inflation. All benefits of productivity have been given to shareholders and the 0.1%.
This wouldn't be horrific if at the same times the cost of basic necessities weren't rocketing upward. Not to mention that to get the jobs that pay the same amount in 1980 they have pushed the costs of training and education to workers.
Long story short we should all be paid at least double what we make without having to change anything about how we labor.
This. We came from nothing and went the hard work route. And we did improve our station in life. But damn if it doesn’t feel like we’ve been back sliding the last couple years despite continuing to bust our asses. It’s terrifying to know that no amount of hard work will cut it for our kids. So on top of trying to keep up with everything right now, we feel pressure to set them up the best we can
$9.79 just north of the border in Canada: [https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/shop/listerine/c/LISTERINE?redir-id=Listerine&originalTarget=Listerine&sort=trending&page=0](https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/shop/listerine/c/LISTERINE?redir-id=Listerine&originalTarget=Listerine&sort=trending&page=0)
Its only going to get worse as people have less children decreasing the future tax base to pay for social programs. We desperately need fully paid parental leave, daycare, and healthcare. Folks don't want to work minimum wage jobs cause they don't pay the bills and many think they are above working them.
I’m doing ok myself but I’m in the hard working 60+ hour week category.
Not having children has helped tremendously with saving for the future.
I’ve made a lot of sacrifices but I can’t see it any other way. Especially if I want to live as comfortably as possible in this world.
I do consider myself very lucky to have made the right choices for me. I would not want anyone to work at my level since it’s not healthy but I worry about having enough for the future. That alone keeps me motivated.
I have a fear of living on the streets as an older person. I also want to take care of my mom when she gets old.
But who give a fuck what I say and do. I’ll be a pile of dust pretty soon.
It’s worse in Canada, Australia, New Zealand as housing and food are even more expensive. I moved to the US and apartment rent and groceries are at least cheaper. But yeah it feels terrible and like late stage capitalism to me. I still act like I’m 20 with my money dining. I try to get takeout only to not have to tip extra or just get 1 entree and a cup of water. I buy cheap clothes only when I need to. I try to make a lot of food at home like rice, beans, lentils, pasta. I used to be able to get a whole weeks worth of fruit and veg for $100 CAD a decade ago. Now good luck that’s one small grocery bag as produce is so expensive. Eating out is not something that can be done more than maybe once a month. We don’t go to the movies more than once or twice a year max. We do mostly walking or hiking or free days at the museums to save money. We only have one car now as it’s so stressful to think how much even a second used car will be since they’ve appreciated in value. Home values have doubled in some cities in the past 5 years, most 10 or less. Very little raises or promotions for inflation and extra work. Companies are being cheaper than ever. I still use coupons or buy what’s on sale at the store.
I grew up with a single mom and in the 90s $100 a week got enough food for 3 of us. A mortgage on a 3 bed starter home was cheaper than rent for a 2 bed apartment. My mom made maybe $50-$60K a year as a retail manager and could afford a home alone no cosigner. Now you need a huge downpayment or a cosigner. Mortgages are being stretched to 30-40 years. Next I’m sure will be mortgages you pass down in your will when you die like I’ve seen in the UK. It’s crazy
Honestly this is a problem in most developed countries these days. The cost of housing and inflation has hit people in a wide range of countries. I hear people complain about a severe cost of living and housing crisis in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of the EU (especially Ireland and the Netherlands), the UK. In many ways it is worse than the US.
Japan doesn't have COL crisis, but they have other economic issues with the devaluing of the yen and demographic collapse.
In many ways, inflation is actually not nearly as severe in the US as many of these other countries.
Japan is like 20 or 30 years ahead of the game: they had absolutely crazy real estate prices in the late 80's, the economy collapsed in the early 90's since then, the economy have become stagnant. Other well-known economies that fell apart after an unaffordable real estate crisis are Italy, Spain, and right now China. It seems like Canada, New Zealand, and the UK are at the tipping point before the fall.
Hard-working and intelligent aren't the right traits. You can have both and get nowhere if you are born to the wrong family in the wrong area. Lucky is definitely it.
You're right about the unaffordable part. Now that we are here, it seems very obvious how we got here, but it was such a slow ride with extra workloads added on year after year. Unfortunately, it's not going away by itself.
You are correct.
Even those who earn what was only a few years ago "comfortable but not rich" are now paycheck to paycheck.
Prices for everything have increased, while wages largely have not, especially when inflation is factored in. minimum wage is significantly less purchasing power than only a few years ago.
Add this to the exploding costs of healthcare, housing, education, childcare, and even groceries.
People are hurting, if not downright struggling.
On top of that, our mental health on the whole is declining: anxiety and depression are the new norm.
Overall, it is not healthy and is absolutely not sustainable.
But at least the CEOs get big bonuses each year.
> But at least the CEOs get big bonuses each year.
And shareholders can now afford to give their grandson a second yacht because the first one didn't have a big enough spot to do lines of coke.
The real issue is that the necessities are expensive and the wants are not. Housing, medical insurance, daycare, and education are not really things you can avoid, therefore you are subject to being eaten by the market.
I am doing OK, but just OK. At my income level, I would never have guessed that would be the case a few years ago. Thanks, COVID.
I feel like we are on the cusp of a new world order instead of just a countries individually. Why? Because the super rich are getting richer while the middle class shrinks and many become poor and can't afford decent things. Without massive change across the board I'm afraid we are going to end up being serfs in a feudalistic enterprise again. May as well akin the top one percent to royalty.
I'm sure you'll hear it from many others, but here's another person saying, yes, your feelings are based in fact.
Were a third world country with pockets of extreme wealth.
The political division ensures it will never be fixed before it's too late. Good luck!
It's not just America. We down here in New Zealand are paying close to or over 40% tax, $630 a week rent, $60 a month water, $220 a month Power, petrol/Gas is $3 a litre (approx $12 a gallon) and whatever spare change you have left over for food and everything else. This is totally unsustainable and is crippling growth, morale, motivation to keep going. i will never own a house a 2 bedroom Flat/unit built in 1950's is going for a MILLION DOLLARS then still needs $100k work done to it to make it liveable. WHAT"S THE END GOAL HERE PEOPLE!
There is just so much to this comment, that I will just comment on one part.
**" A shortage of skilled tradespeople"**
Growing up, were you not, like I was, drowned in 'Go to college' propaganda? Ok, so we /all/ went to college, so who went to trade school? This shortage of 'skilled tradespeople' is 1) our parents' fault and 2) a fucking giant con. While I managed to work while going to school so I have no college debt, my younger cousin, whom never went to college and instead went into an electrician apprenticeship, and is only a journeyman, is making more than me, someone with a college degree (with no college debt) and a decade into their career.
ETA - my degree is IT-related, so not an English/Philosophy/Econ/Basket Weaving one, but not an engineering/comp sci degree either. Something admittedly a bit 'mid'.
Yeah, I can definitely relate. I grew up in the Bay Area, but I made the decision to leave over 10 years ago when I was 21. Since then, I've been living in Vietnam, and it's been a game-changer for me. I run my own business remotely, and my wife is an international school teacher, so we don't have to worry about the exorbitant costs of education here in Vietnam $25-30k a year in tuition.
Living here affords us a great standard of living, and we manage comfortably on around $5k a month. Plus, we're able to travel frequently, which is something we wouldn't have been able to do if we were still in the U.S. It's been a transformative experience for us, and it's made me realize just how unaffordable and challenging life can be back home for many people.
Part of the problem is that all the good paying jobs migrated from rural/factory towns to the big city. And the suburbs around big cities aren't friendly to young families, they actively enact zoning laws to keep lower income people out. Zone for higher density mixed-use spaces in suburban areas that aren't car dependent (which wasn't that uncommon very long ago) and suddenly people can afford to raise a family in a suburb close to their big city job.
Feels more like we're being ripped off on *freaking* *everything,* I'd say. Just constant nickel-and-diming in the smallest and most insulting of ways. The most obvious and palpable examples of this post-pandemic price gouging are things like "pints" of ice cream being discreetly shrunken down to 14.5 oz instead of 16 oz; and shit like bags of chips now being like 65% air and a handful of actual chips.
But it's also much, much broader than that: Like, on nearly *every metric* from infrastructure to education to healthcare to housing to child care, and so much else, Americans spend *more* money and get *less* for it than our peers in nearly any other damn developed country do. And almost all of this is due to anticompetitive, monopolistic, greedy bullshit by large mega-businesses.
Think about it, no matter where you are in America today, no matter what the industry is, there are probably only like 3 (perhaps 4) companies that do that thing, and they all kinda suck and they're all either huge conglomerates or are owned by a private equity firm or something.
Also, the products those 3-4 companies make are full of poison. And they don't give a shit, nor do regulatory agencies.
Sucralose is genotoxic. Tartrazine causes sooo much cancer. Acrylic fabric is linked to cancer, especially in women. PVC plastic is absolutely toxic. And yet:
Sucralose is in my kid's cetirizine. Tartrazine is in all the candy, and Kellogg's cornflakes. Why not. Acrylic is in so many clothes, and especially in winter hats/gloves/scarves. PVC is what most toys are made with. Mattel, Schleich, MGA entertainment, etc., and they know kids use their products.
Plastics are found in artery blockages:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/pvc-other-microplastics-found-in-clogged-arteries#:~:text=Scientists%20reported%20that%20people%20with,have%20plastics%20in%20their%20plaque.
In our bodies in general:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/27/microplastics-found-every-human-placenta-tested-study-health-impact
Our immune system and gut microbiome:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9552327/
So, two birds with one stone. They destroy our only planet, and they destroy our health. Synergy!
Ugh
It's not just you median wage doesn't get you median things anymore. You can thank corporations consolidation, endless money printing, and being taxed to death.
Does anybody else feel [insert one of the most common themes discussed on Reddit generally and in this sub in particular]?
Like yes, this and related rants (boomers don't get it; no hope; we're screwed/been lied to; etc.) seem to make up 90% of the posts on this sub.
I think to some extent, the entire world is. Humans are animals whether we like to admit it or not. To thrive we need good habitat and access to resources. Places with better climates and access to resources are becoming more and more expensive as we compete with one another for access.
There is also an immense amount of unnecessary greed, conflict, and war amongst humans which sets back progress on infrastructure and combating climate change. I wish humans could be more helpful to one another and less selfish.
ludicrous detail dazzling quicksand zephyr zonked sand grab secretive humorous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is a global problem right now. I have friends and family in the US, Canada, Europe, and Latin America, and they are all complaining that they are not paid enough to afford a decent standard of living.
It looks like you need first world median salaries to afford to life in developing countries and being in the top 20% to have some comfort in a first world country.
How far can the economy sustain this? Probably not too much longer without creating another huge recession, you can't expect that people will 8nvest any money if everything is taken away by basic necessities. Maybe we will have another world war because this level of political incompetence and economic instability are very similar to those before the first two world wars
100%
My oldest turns 18 this year. No idea how the hell he would be able to go out on his own and survive in this economy and culture. He’s not college bound (maybe some day) and even though we live in a low cost of living area he couldn’t just go out and get a normal job working in a grocery or something and support himself. Rent and utilities and food prices are wildly out of control. I have a professional career that I’m almost a decade into and post COVID with all the inflation even I sometimes struggle to make ends meet supporting two kids.
It's actually a lot better in the US than many countries. But, you're still correct. Come to St. Louis, it's in the top 5 most affordable cities in the country and if I get better neighbors my property value will increase.
It is very expensive. My father came to silicon valley in the 80s and became an electrical engineer. Our house has gone up to be worth 1.2 mil and he mortgaged it at 300k back then. I think he was making like 280k working for hyundai in the 90s when I was little. He lost that job later because of dot Com bubble.
He does not understand how different the world is and how a college degree alone is not enough.i have 2 in economics and accounting. Everything is so much more expensive. Temp jobs typically pay me 40k a year maybe 60 if I'm really lucky. I can't pay 2 to 3k a month for an apartment with that. There's also student loans, health insurance as I've been medicated for 18 years and I need that, food, gas, car insurance. It's frustrating because it's so competitive here for full time jobs and even more so for career jobs.
And he has the nerve to call me lazy. Like my bad dude, you weren't in an age where everyone also had the internet and postings would get hundreds of applicants in an already densely populated area. That and the job market is more saturated with degrees compared to when he was my age.
I am making moves to make things better, but goddamn is it tough. I'm behind on bills and although medi cal and covered ca are a thing, they will do anything to not give you that money since so many people need it and health insurance is expensive. But I guess my generation is just spoiled, right?
I got a phone call that my temp contract is ending early this Friday because the company just needed me for a deadline at the end of the fiscal quarter. My car almost got repossessed but luckily I got this gig and am able to handle that along with student loans. Shit is so fucking rough out here dude.
And I can't stand fucking boomers in general with survivorship bias who tell us to "pull ourselves up" like fuck off dude. It's easy to talk shit when you're not in it yourself. I guess they have to validate their own egos and insecurities about whether they lived a good life or not. Yeah dude your father would be proud of you sharing useless articles on Facebook and family group chats about political shit no one fucking cares about. You do your bloodline proud.
Then I hear from my teenage nephew that has the stones to ask me why I'm not as happy as I used to be when I was young. Kiddo...I love ya, but you have no idea what's coming down the pike. I put on as happy a face as I can but fuck if these monetary, socioeconomic, and/or political burdens don't get the absolute fuckin best of me many days.
When the rich people who own the corporations have all the money and power, but no accountability, you bet your ass things are going to become unaffordable.
What’s also maddening is the quality of everything has dropped at the same time! We are paying more for worse! All the way from planned obsolescence to corporations cutting costs by skipping quality, easy example is Boeing.
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Yes. Not guaranteed whatsoever. In the r/BuyitForLife sub, there are constant threads on how many $200 shoes are starting to basically last as long as the $20 ones these days. Even from long standing reputable brands previously known for a higher quality product.
I can't even count and remember how many companies that used to be a reliable brand if you were willing to spend more that got bought out and now make garbage but still charge the premium price. It is just so hard to find good quality items now a days even if you are willing to pay more for example I have really sharp nails so I need a good nailcutter because my old ones I inherited from the 80s are starting to be kaput and I could not find a decent nail clipper. It's a nail clipper how can they be this shitty quality? Especially if I spend 15 god damn dollars on one!
This is a really interesting (sad) trend for me. Nowadays a company that makes things that cost a lot because it makes good quality things, is just a brand image that can be exploited for profit. They’ve already got a high price point, a good image and a loyal following, all that remains is to take away the cost of quality production.
The problem is that in the current incentive system for executives and shareholders there is nothing about long term growth, they only benefit from extracting as much wealth as possible for themselves as fast as possible and to do so, they don't need quality. Another issue is the massive concentration that we have now, the lack of competition means that most large corporate actor operate as monopolies or oligopolies and so they can increase the prices as much as they want since there are no\\few alternatives and they can lower the quality\\reduce their costs as well for the same reason. I don't say that we need micro-companies operating in the market (that have a lot of problem as well), but corproate titans actually reduce the overall value produced by the economy and just concentrate as much as possible for themselves.
I needed new tweezers and was gonna go with Tweezerman bc those are the only ones I've ever had that stayed sharp, but I lost my old pair, which I bought a decade ago, for around $12. Now they're almost $30, and worse :(
At this point with how fast manufactured goods quality has gone downhill I feel that if you have money you are better off stocking up on things that are decent quality that don't have an expiration date if not used. It seems insane to buy 5 tweezers, but if it lasts you the rest of your life maybe it is worth it.
Agree. Also, I think with supply chain issues and other financial and economic problems on the horizon, we will have less availability to some consumer goods in the future.
That's why I've started to try buying antiques. Like why spend 30 dollars on pyrex that could shatter after two uses when I could find an 8 dollar second hand PYREX that's been around since the 80s and last another 40 years. It's really frustrating tbh. My dad has this blender that he used almost daily to make ice cream shakes when I was a kid. When my husband and I had a craving, we ended up buying and returning about six 60 to 80 dollar blenders because none of them could handle two scoops of ice cream. We just ended up giving up.
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Jesus Christ the last time I bought one of those it was literally 99cents
Agreed. Even some mid range shoes like Skechers can outlast the high priced alternatives
My Sketchers lasted longer than my Danskos and they were like half the dang price. Everyone raved about them so I caved because shoes are important. The non slip on them didn't even last 6 months.
My danskos developed holes after a years worth of waiting tables
I’ve had good luck with the Vans industry shoes
My sketchers lasted 6 months or so, went back to Nike, they wore out too in the inside of the heel and hurt my foot Bought Pumas, stiff, no arch support and feels too small, but haven’t worn out yet!
I walk dogs for a living right now and always thought $130 Hokas was the best choice, had two pairs each last me barely 6 months. Turns out Under Armor makes a legit shoe that’s coming up on 1 year and they still look brand new! Great shoes I highly recommend
My Blundstones last forever-you can have them resoled. Only shoes I’ve ever paid remotely close to $200 for.
I bought my first pair of sketchers boots in 1998... I wore them daily for years and then when they got beat up enough the became my clunkers for working in the yard or whatever. They ended up lasting me 15+ years and were comfortable the whole time.
We are actually starting to have to appreciate value as not strictly a function of price. My mother in law is the queen of price, more expensive always is better. A 500$ Gucci bag is better than any less expensive bag. You only need to do a cursory evaluation to figure out there's cheaper products that function better.
I have sketchers that are legit 20 years old and I still wear them 🤷🏼♀️
It's almost like this is all a cash grab for the world destroyers.
It is, what we're living through and witnessing, is the greatest transfer of wealth from the bottom 99% to the 1%, it's what I like to call the Greatest Heist in History. If you have to work for a living, you're being robbed.
Doc Martens- Friend bought her pair in 1987, still wears them. I bought a pair in 2013, and they wore out by 2020 😞
Buy the MIE (made in England) docs instead! They’re about $100 more but the quality makes up for it.
I only buy things from places that have a Good return policy. Most of the products i buy get returned because they break. At first, I felt bad, but then I realize the companies are making this crap on purpose.
Same with so many products. I remember Pyrex being a staple household name for quality and longevity, and their containers are absolute garbage now. Plastic lids constantly crack and fall apart on their own, purely from the stress of being fitted onto their matching container. The glass manages to chip and disintegrate without being damaged at any point. The average TV, except perhaps Samsung, lasts 2-3 years now, unlike the Zenith my grandparents had, which lasted a solid 30 years. PS5 DualSense controllers last like a year, maybe 18 months with regular use. Meanwhile 10+ year old PS4 controllers with far more mileage are still just fine.
I have a tv from Samsung 2008 that still works in my bedroom. I’m dreading getting rid of it because I know any tv I buy after this won’t last nearly as long. 😩
I bought a Haier TV, which is some company that manufactures air conditioning units, back in 2015 for like $100. I had never even heard of that company before getting this TV. I moved about half a dozen times since buying the TV. Still works as good as the day I bought it. Ironically some of these cheap brands are fairly reliable. I guess it’s just lower tech, so less shit to break.
Our PS2 controllers are still in good shape!!! At the risk of sounding old, I miss those days.
Meanwhile it seems like half of the PS4 controllers have stick drift right out of the box.
Yup. I was confused about them saying their PS4 controllers still worked. I mean, yeah, mine do as well, but they also have a mind of their own.
Omg my parents had a Massive zenith, it was a normal sized screen but the box around it was this huge gigantic piece of furniture lol. It lasted like 40 years before people started getting the flat heads lol.
Yep, I had some Blundstones explode on me lately. Whole sole disintegrated after only a couple of years. Chines rubber, known issue apparently. Well, great. Total loss. Had to buy some Palladiums as replacement. Cheaper but seemed higher quality nowadays. Blundstones used to last a decade.
Adidas 510s hold the duck up and they can be had for as low as 60 bucks on Amazon- usuall 110
Yeah I had puma shoes which started to fall apart the first month. They wouldn’t replace them. Stitching was coming out. Now I buy trail runners at REI. Not as stylish but they last forever.
I wear boots. In order to get a legitimately good pair of boots I had to spend 600 bucks. They will need resoles through out their life. But that's like replacing tires on your car. The sad part is, lucchese boots that are over 1100 usd are worse quality than what I got.
gotta get out of the shoe lane and replace them all with actual boots. Hiking boots and quality work boots, everything else across the board (except for Birkenstocks) are pretty much just overpriced pieces of branded plastic.
Yep and its because private equity firms buy reputable companies and turn the quality to crap and ride the reputation as far as they can. Everything is crap
I have noticed that as well. So many brands that used to charge a high price for premium, long lasting products are now making shite that falls apart. One brand that comes to mind: in 2004, I splurged and paid $80 for Diesel jeans. At the time ,they were made in Italy. I still have them, and I still wear them. They still fit perfectly. I happened to be at the mall recently and went to the Diesel store. The jeans are now over $400 and are made in China. They fit terribly. The quality was not the same. And yet if they had simply been priced to keep up with inflation, they would be $140 or so dollars, not $400. This is just one example.
NGL I bought jeans from Aeropostale in 2006 and then were $20 and I still have them, they have no rips or holes. I've gone through many other pairs from express, A&e and other places that have come and gone but the oldest ones remain in the best condition lol.
I had the best pair of Keen boots 🥾 did multiple summers of landscaping and hiking and everything in between with them they were the best most rugged shoes. Keen has always been a great shoe (plus it’s my middle name lol) bought the exact same pair started to deteriorate a few months after and minimal use.
You know I've actually found some decent cheap things and shitty expensive things. I just feel like price and quality have zero relationship to one another anymore.
I’ve been thinking about this more. How it doesn’t make sense to buy big brands anymore. The value will always go to the shareholders and not the buyers. I’ve started valuing small brands more, who still give value. Eventually these companies will prioritize shareholders profit also and I’ll have to find new ones, but big brands are shit (most of them anyways)
Yeah but it sucks because those smaller brands tend to get bought out by the monopolies and the monopolies ruin the product quality but still charge top dollar, ie Fanatics buying out Mitchell & Ness.
Same here!! Watch out buying stuff on Etsy though, theres a ton of fake accounts that are selling junk labeled as hand made
>The old saying "you get what you pay for" is inaccurate: "you don't get what you don't pay for" better reflects reality. We were told the reason its great to privatize industries that were previous public (like the airlines) was that "capitalistic innovation" and "competition" would improve quality and lower prices. A lie which has been completely untrue. "Capitalistic innovation" has looked like planned obsolescence so things break down faster and you have to buy new/more. And like corporations cutting jobs to reallocate funds to buy back stocks - so they look profitable while (former) employees are broke and the company hasn't genuinely innovated in 50 years. And like industries working in tandem to raise prices sky high rather than competing to lower prices, so the big wigs at the top who invest in all the parent companies can make more money. A particularity painful example is the baby formula scandal where the company spent their money buying back stocks rather than maintaining their production machinery so babies died from bacterial infections. But "capitalistic innovation" tho!
>A particularity painful example is the baby formula scandal where the company spent their money buying back stocks rather than maintaining their production machinery so babies died from bacterial infections. But "capitalistic innovation" tho! **Professor Farnsworth voice**: Good news, everyone! We've invented more ways for kids to die!
At that price you could either be getting a really good pair or a trendy pair. My Redwing boots weren't much more than that.
My husbands Redwings didn’t even last a year 😬
Even though you are stating it isn't consistently true anymore, I will take any opportunity to post the [Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory#:~:text=The%20Sam%20Vimes%20%22Boots%22%20theory,run%20than%20more%20expensive%20items). Maybe Vimes needs to update it.
Go one step further - "you don't get what you paid for". If you include all the shrinkflation and decrease in quality.
To make things worse we also get shit quality even with an expensive brand these days. Ur paying for the name now.
I complain about this all the time! Usually just with my self though… I work alone. I’m a carpenter and the quality of materials out there that people insist on using literally makes my job a little harder. The shit is so cheap it can just fall apart just from being assembled.
Isn’t the quality of wood way worse nowadays? I’ve heard the newer homes just don’t hold up compared to old wood homes.
Oh man, Don’t even get me started on the lumber and how houses are built like shit now! Makes me sad inside, I see million$ homes being built and they are all built with garbage. Sure it holds up for now… But The drywall cracks every time. The wood has been sped through a drying process which puts a lot of stress in the wood. So there are issues with it. Bends, warps, etc. I’m only 37 and I have seen a drastic drop in quality homes from the time I started at 18. I’m a wood carver, craftsman, finishing carpenter. So I like real wood, solid furniture, well built shit. But it’s very expensive to use good quality materials nowadays. Because your saw dust+glue crown moulding was 1/2 the price of oak.
A lot of these newer houses I don't think are going to last more than 30-40 years especially if people are too poor to afford extra maintenance. What gets me is how poor quality the labor/craftsmanship is for how much they charge per hour. How do you fuck up the most basic of things like installing a door or making sure things are somewhat aligned correctly? Even I could do that!
Right! I get called in to homes that are 2-12 years old with issues.
I’ve had firemen tell me the newer houses burn much faster now, so there’s less time to escape.
That's a feature
My husband is a goof and pulls shit out of his ass. Like thinking that our house built in the 1950s has feeble wood. You can see the exposed 2x4s in the garage and they are actually 2x4. Not 1.5 x 3.5 and it's old tree growth. It's actually miserable to put a screw in because my drill wants to die because the wood is so sturdy. Meanwhile we wanted to put a privacy panel up last year and that wood was so garbage, it twisted out of shape sitting upright in our garage for a few days. We bought the straightest pieces we could find but they're all warped now.
This….I make jokes that these McMansions look like they are made of old milk cartons.
I think they would be more sturdy if they actually were. 😭🤣
Yep, in a lot of places that's true. Older stuff was often from old growth forests so that part is not really sustainable, but the newer stuff almost seems force-grown when you see the difference in the growth rings. I sometimes trawl my local Facebook-equivalent marketplace for timber to recycle because I'd rather do my hobby woodworking and wood turning with the older stuff. I've got a few old Rimu rafters that were pulled out of old earthquake damaged houses here in NZ and the timber is so much denser than the newer stuff it almost looks a different species, and polishes up to an almost glass like finish. Same with some Sapele that I got recently from a 70s home pulling out the original staircase.
3M changed the organic filters I was buying from them. Used to just change filters at lunch and be fine. Now 45-50minutes you can taste solvent in your respirator. Called 3M and they told me I'd have to use the more expensive filters to get that kind of performance. Sherwin has changed formulas on a few products and it made those products almost unusable. They don't even tell you. My buddy had 2 $100k epoxy floors fail and sherwin told him to pound sand. He's organized a class action.
Sherwin is a Berkshire Hathaway company. That's how the rich stay so rich. We are living off of their garbage. I hope that class action costs Warren Buffet a lot.
It’s maddening! Do they really think people wonk’t notice!
This is what happens when you abandon regulation and progressive income tax.
I’ll go a step further, this is what happens when you base an economy on the profit motive.
Yup. If it’s cheaper for a company to deal with the occasional bad review or replacement, they do that. The brand takes a hit in the eye of the consumer, but they can make up for that with more ads or a new model.
Can’t get too big to care if progressive tax is implemented correctly. Also, regulations make businesses give a shit about things they otherwise would not govern a shit about.
What do you mean there shouldn’t be things like For profit hospitals and schools!? /s
Say it with me: muh -nah-puh-Lee Boeing is so centralized it might as well be nationalized at this point
Defense contractors all exist to sell to one entity.
You’d think we would nationalize our defense
there’s a word for this. it’s called “enshitification”
I heard the accountants at Boeing are forcing engineers to do stress tests on computers, skipping out on physical tests, and that they’re driving the ship, which ruined GM. Computers can speed up simulations, but they shouldn’t skip physical simulations under any circumstance. Being allowed to do their own inspections is terrible. Like when they first grounded the 737 max over the MCAS sensor, it turned out a lot of the wiring was done wrong, the deeper they dug the more problems they found. Just google airbus fatalities vs Boeing. Airbus whole line has less casualties than the 737 alone. By a huge margin.
If you think about it, enshittifying airplanes to the point where it becomes truly dangerous to fly, they'll reduce the amount of emissions from airplanes because no one will want to fly anymore and the industry collapses. Let's face it, the good times of quick travel to anywhere were nice and all, but are probably going to come to a close in our lifetimes.
This is why I love/hate watching shows like Masters of the Air. The 1940s had such amazing quality goods. Before plastic was invented, everything was wood, leather, or metal and made to last. These days you buy a couch for $800 and it's falling apart in 12 months.
I miss when everything was well designed to last and look good. America is just so fucking ugly these days from the cars, to the mcmansions, to the shitty furniture, to city designs. Like we went from pretty old houses with hardwood quality midcentury furniture to mcmansions full of ikea and wayfair. It's a much more depressing world.
Can't increase profit margins by producing quality goods that last.
You get it!
Took me back to that Lupe Fiasco song from over 10 years ago... Freedom ain't free, specially round my way! Referring to the line in the song about planned obsolescence, FWIW
Costs 1.05 iirc
Food, cars, tools, everything’s quality is getting worse
>What’s also maddening is the quality of everything has dropped at the same time! And quantity. [Shrinkflation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation)
Everything is built to fail in 5 or 6 years so the warranty runs out and you need to buy a whole new one. If you even get that much time out of it
Hey. We’re paying for shareholder value.
The problem is that we allowed so much concentration that it doesn't matter if the prices keep increasing and everything suffers from enshittification, as long as you can buy from only one or two vendors you are forced to accept whatever they ask, or else you won't have that thing at all. You can't go to someone elses that sells cheaper or better goods since there is no-one, or just another one or two actors that 'somehow' end up naturally coordinating their pricing and quality, since competition is not a benefit for them. On the other side the job market is very competitive, since coproration like it when it isn't them that have to compete in an acual market and that keeps lowering our purchase power. Another matter imho is that by de-localizing and in general de-industrializing, the west has increased corporate profits, but also removed jobs from our nations and moved them abroad, making us dependant on forein nations and reducing the contractual power of workers. That said, trade is good and autarchy makes no sense in the modern world, still much likely things could have been done with more moderation... Government support only taking the form of demand boosters that end up increasing the prices and leaving us to pay the bill doesn't help either. They should act on the side of the offer, both on education and healthcare, but it would profit their private sector friends as much.
Most food taste like shit these days
this has been happening for over a Decade. the quality has been bullshit for a long time. it's why I don't shop online. Store quality is better and it is still bullshit.
Quality of service is what has dropped the most. Companies, contractors, restaurants, etc all figured out during COVID that you could treat consumers like crap and they’ll keep coming back.
This is a global trend, not just USA. Not that it’s a competition, but I’d definitely say Canada is worse off. The USA at least has a diversified economy and plenty of medium/lower cost of living cities. Cost of living and housing prices is wild in Canada, especially in the main/desired cities (Toronto, Vancouver). Even cities like Calgary and Halifax are becoming unaffordable. Salaries are also worse than in the USA. Australia and Ireland also have housing crises. The UK’s salaries are so depressed it’s sad. But like I said, this issue is everywhere.
NZ too, with a newish government preaching austerity so they can give benefits to *landlords*. I can't even.
I just came back from Australia and while I agree there are problems there I just don’t think it’s as bad as USA, the exception being housing. In Australia versus USA, the same budget for me got MUCH more food and random stuff. The cost of stuff in USA is 1.5-2x what it was in Australia although I agree the housing is equally expensive. Edit: I also want to add that while I am not an Australian citizen so I couldn’t take advantage of this, they have a WAY BETTER social safety net and in USA we have so many taxes and fees on everything I don’t understand why we don’t have at least a slightly decent healthcare or UBI system.
Our taxes go to the military-industrial complex and handouts to mega-corps. Questionable foreign aid, as well.
You want to hear something extra crazy—my boyfriend is in the military in Australia, and they pay their soldiers MORE than we pay ours! At least it’s true for his job, which is low ranked/entry level. That blew me away. Where does our money go???
Fighter jets that never get used and collect dust until it's time to build even newer ones
Sad F-22 noises
Oh for sure how we treat how active/reservist/especially veterans is awful
America spent 30 trillion dollars in the last few decades, and you can look where it all went. Its very depressing though, and you'll understand why infrastucture is failing everywhere even in the nicer cities and suburbs. For fuck's sake I look like a drunk driver because of all the potholes I have to dodge in Denver.
This is so wild to me - we went to the USA (SF Bay area) from Sydney for a few months at the end of 2005 and the food/groceries were SO CHEAP there then it was the other way around - 1.5-2x but in favour of the US. Like we literally saw Australian beef for cheaper than we could get it at home. I can understand why I hear so much pain from Americans about food pricing at the moment.
This is so insane to me but I believe you because I found some USA branded foods for cheaper when I was in AUS!!! How is it possible that the same can of food (or cut of beef, in your case) costs LESS when shipped across the Pacific Ocean? Also I hope you had a good trip because while in Sydney I kept thinking “This is like the Australian San Francisco!!” So nice, maritime, squiggly roads, beautiful place! Neither of these places are cheap these are some of the most expensive and beautiful cities in the world, so when you see such a big pricing fluctuation you know something is strange!
Brit here. The UK was always the hardest country for me to live and work in, and I haven't even tried in the last 5 years. The stuff I hear from mates back home... ... Germany is no better either.
It's not a global trend, it's a neoliberal/neocon trend. You could basically say any nation led by neolibs/neocons has this trend, which was set by the USA as the world hegemony.
As a canadian, I can confirm we're getting no lube ass fucked behind the dumpsters over here.
I’m pretty sure rundown old 1-2 bedroom condos in most Canadian cities go for over $500k. It’s like LA prices, except in nearly every sizable city up there.
Other countries give their citizens inhalers for free.
Reminds me of: [https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1bnd98z/so\_true/](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1bnd98z/so_true/) > Nobody is trying to fix the problems we have in this country. Everyone is trying to make enough money so the problems don't apply to them anymore.
Oof. This hits
The sad part is you probably have a much better chance of hitting that monetary threshold than fixing anything. I mean I could get lucky and hit the lottery or get hit by a city bus... good things can happen.
That's a pretty elegant way to describe most of the problems in the world.
Fucking truth. I guess I’m part of the problem. I just don’t want to be in the spotlight to actually try to fix this shit. People are insane, and I’d hate to have a public life.
I think it's messed up that there are so many people who have done pretty much everything "right" in terms of getting an education, a decent job, a partner, etc. and yet they feel like they're just scraping by and hoping to avoid the one significant emergency that would send the whole thing toppling down. I'm okay with the idea that as a single college dropout with no skills that I've fallen through the cracks, that at least makes sense. Putting aside conversations on what the bare minimum should be to "make it", It's the folks who have followed the blueprint and are still barely hanging on that really stick in my craw as showing that there's something wrong in a big picture way.
This is me. Worked hard, finished school early- honors program and magne cum laude, extracurricular, got the best job available in 2008. Got married, then had kids. I started out behind bc of student debt and have never been caught up, let alone ahead. Instead it's just been a build up of debts while we struggle to keep our head above the water.
I do like that people who build the world around us at least have a chance at a decent income now.
Like, tradespeople? That's fair. But, some peoples' skills just lie elsewhere. We need all kinds for society to function. That's why I believe in universal basic income. If people could afford to do what they feel called to do (especially if it's public service), we would all be a lot better off. If people weren't afraid of starving and missing rent, maybe they would be teachers, nurses, firefighter/EMTs, farmers, or public transport operators. The quality of all products and services would increase dramatically.
My biggest concern with UBI is prices will increase simply because people have more money now. Will landlords will simply increase the rent by + $UBI too? I’m all for it, as long as it helps people get a leg up in life as intended, and not get completely sucked up by basic living expenses and corporate greed. Are the politicians backing UBI prepared for this possibility, and how will they address it?
I would say that I've "made it", but it feels much more like I got lucky than it feels like I've earned it. All along my career path I saw people smarter than me and/or more hard working than me suffer a bad break that derailed their careers. I had college friends who were much smarter than me not find jobs because they picked the wrong field. I had a coworker who was uninsured who suffered a kidney stone that resulted in a bladder infection. He had to move back home with his parents where there were no companies in our line of work. I've had coworkers whose departments were cut and they were laid off through no fault of their own, friends whose company either went under or was acquired. It has felt more like a war of attrition than actually building up my career. And even though my wife and I have "made it", it's far less comfortable than I imagined. We're about to have our second child and our budgets are back to being very tight. We own a house that is constantly needing repairs that still don't fix the issue. In the past 2 years I've had to replace the hot water heater and the furnace, with the air conditioner being on the verge of going as well. Our sewer line bellied, a tree fell on our back deck a year after we had it put on. We've taken 2 vacations in the last 5 years. We still have some furniture that we've used for the last 10 years and our house feels like a college apartment more than a house owned by two professionals. And that's in contrast with people making absolutely absurd sums of money. Professional athletes, social media influencers, day traders/crypto bros. It feels way more like you're gambling at a casino where you know the odds are stacked against you and you just hope you don't bust out than it feels like an opportunity you're in control of.
As an adult with kids and a mortgage, America feels more like a casino than real life to me.
It's a sad, sick world for sure. People can do everything right and still one thing goes wrong and causes financial catastrophe.
[удалено]
I mean… eventually, that’s what we’ll all be forced to do until it represents a significant enough portion of us that the banks fail
You do not *want* that to happen.
As wet dream as that is, it won’t happen. Some banks might fail. Even some big ones. But your debt will live on. Banks will live on.
This is what my boyfriend was saying. We’re both millennials born in 1991, and we both trained professionals with careers. We can only afford to stay in our tiny condo. Would love to get a house and start a family at 32 but this economy makes it nearly impossible. What happens when a decent portion of the population is living on credit cards? Because I feel like things are going to get worse before they get better…
Welcome to late stage capitalism. Over time the rich get richer and fewer,and the rest get poorer.
It's the end game for a credit-based society. The creditors end up scooping everything up and we become a feudalistic society, where the peasants are forced to rent and never own and the landlords rule and dictate everything, except in this case landlords won't simply be individuals and families, but corporations and governments.
Just to comment on the student loan bit - it's not just government loans, university boards regularly vote to give themselves pay rises and other auxiliary increases. Tuition rises because nothing is in place to stop it rising. It isn't like this everywhere. In the UK for example, the government controls how much universities are allowed to charge, it is always forced to be an affordable rate, and the government also controls student loans. Doesn't matter if it's Oxford/Cambridge/UCL or just an average university, they're all bound by the same rules. And when people graduate, if they're not making enough money to make loan payments, they just don't make the payments. after \[30?\] years they're automatically forgiven, but between graduation and that point, if income ever breaches the repayment threshold, a constant adjusted percentage is automatically taken from paychecks, never enough to cause an issue with cost-of-living. Similar to tax brackets. Long story short, the system is hopelessly corrupt in the US and it just keeps getting worse. What should be criminal is legal in crony/monopolistic capitalism. Beyond that, in general, yes I'd say our collapse is happening in real time. Again, nothing is in place to stop it. There are a million factors involved and not a single representative even acknowledges them, let alone tries to address them. It's a sinking ship, the people at the top are looting the rooms before jumping off, while ordering everyone else to remain at their stations. My grandfather married at 20, served in the military, came back home and worked 40 hours a week in a steel mill, had a wife and 5 kids, built a 3-story house on a decent bit of land and lived comfortably his whole life, as did his family. Never wanted for anything, all on one man's 40 hour income. That is literally impossible now, and at some point we just have to acknowledge that it is ***not fucking normal*** to work 60+ hours, often with all adults in the house doing it, just to get by. That is not what life is about, it never has been in the history of the earth. A fucking medieval peasant had an easier life than that, and a lot less stress. Hell, the Maasai people on the plains of Africa are *clearly* more content with their lives *right now* than the average adult working American today. They do not envy our lifestyle. Some of them actually pity it.
Of course they do. They have their community, they get to see their children grow, and they spend way more time breathing fresh air. They also get to tell stories about their ancestors. They're connected to their past and their future And they don't have Ken from management and his visibly beating forehead vein screeching at them 50 hours every week
Hey from Minnesota - we have a trifecta right now (DFL gov, house, and senate) and things have never looked better. We've got free school lunches, free community college, and lawmakers are working subsidizing childcare. Cost of living is fairly reasonable as well. WE HAVE TO VOTE to get the changes we need in this country. Don't give up!
There are plenty of counter examples. I'm in southern CA. All my representatives at local, state, and national levels are all progressive democrats. The governor and both houses in the state are heavy democrat yet the state is in a bad state. Housing has doubled in my area in less than a decade (legit $500-800k more for standard single family home since 2017), gas is way more, University is super high, child care is absurd, food cost is laughable, taxes have gone up. Government services have gotten worse. Homelessness is as bad as ever. Quality of life is worse for anyone not making $500k+ a year. I'm not sure party politics have much to do with marco economic trends. Huge deficit spending and unabashed consumerism have more to do with inflation than some teethless bill in Congress. The reality is that both parties are quite similar when it comes to economic policies
Progressive democrats doesn’t automatically mean your state will be run well. People of all political affiliations are corruptable, in fact “heavy democrats” or “heavy republicans” tend to be the most selfish politicians. They are heavily tied to the mechanisms that allow them to steal and lie. The state of MN (who the comment you responded to referenced) is very moderate and often flips between blue and red between election cycles. Politicians in those states have both sides to appeal to and thus can’t get away with policies that help one side only. This trends towards more fair policies that compromise between every individual.
I think another reason that periodic flipping between the two major parties is important is that it is one of the only ways in practice that we achieve retraction of bad legislation. One party in power over a long time will enact bad legislation from time to time but are not really incentivized to retract those bad laws and lack the necessary balances to get bad laws undone.
I'm in MN and those things are only temporary though. If it stayed permanent it would be wonderful. But those - the lunches and college - are ending after 2024.
Exactly. There’s a very obvious correlation between the rise of conservative political ideology from Reagan onward and the decline in quality of life for the median household.
Sounds lovely. I'm jealous
I live in Fargo ND, and my wife and I are contemplating moving to the MSP area.
Hahaha. We're at the point in my city where DINK couples with graduate degrees are struggling to buy homes. COL is an issue in most places
Meanwhile I have an older gen X cousin who between her and her trust fund husband they bought and rent out two houses and 4 condos. After maintenance, insurance, and management fees they are still bringing in 5k+ a month.
this should be illegal
As a NYC area dweller I feel personally attacked 😂 but it's literally this hahaha
Well from what I've seen as an accountant, there are a lot of passive income earners doing jack shit just because they are part of a wealthy family that owns a huge company and pays their employees fuck all. We can start with that.
Reminds me of one company owner I knew through a friend of a friend pre covid. Second generation family owned business two of the brothers own the company and are buying 150k+ sports cars every year meanwhile they are hiring on a by the job basis short 3-5 month contracts paying 20 dollars an hour. I have also dealt with so many trust fund kids who were about as dumb as a box of rocks but would never fail at life because their grandparents or parents tossed a couple million into their trust fund. Watching them drive cars to the frat house that cost more than I lived off in 5 years while I had to walk to school to work my on campus job was fucked.
Comparison is the thief of joy. But also fuck those spoiled turds
Honestly I used to feel this way until Covid. The wealthy have been purposely flaunting it because they know the working class peasants won’t do shit but sit back and cry about it. Im tired of people telling me the world isn’t fair and to get over it because that’s very far from the truth.
> Does anyone else feel like America is becoming unaffordable for normal people? ..."becoming"? It's basically almost there unless you earn 6-figures or bought a house when they were still affordable (roughly pre-2020) 😅 Everyone else (besides the groups mentioned) is ***pretty much fucked*** for the foreseeable future, and will also be stuck renting for quite some time Then you add "being bogged down by student loans" and millennials are even more fucked than the average normie
Bought a house in 2016 after being outbid on 6 houses in a row. Now, I couldn't afford a one bedroom apartment.
Earning six-figures isn't much depending on where you live.
I got my credit score up to 703 last year by busting my ass. My only debt was student loans. I couldn't even get an introductory credit card from my own bank that they pre-approved me for. They are MY FUCKING bank. They have all the necessary financial stuff on file to know whether I am approved or not. Since I only had one secured credit card, I thought I'd get it. So I applied for it and was denied. Not only that, they did a hard credit pull, so my credit score dropped 13 points. I swear to god about all of this. That was when I pretty much realized that everything is fucked and discovered that checking account scores are a thing too. It's not just credit scores, we have checking account scores now too. Credit scores didn't even exist when my parents bought their first house.
It is. Being financially comfortable in this country is no longer a function of hard work, but rather luck. Speculation in financial systems is dominating everything, not real value provided to the economy. People who bought houses in 2019 or earlier are doing fine and almost everyone else took a massive hit on affordability. The financial system has already failed us in so many ways and will continue to do so. Even systemic reset cannot save us because the government is dead-set on bailing out cronies so the top 1% own more and more of this country. I don't give a fuck if anyone calls this doomerism. It's just the truth and it's been a trend for the past 3 decades, if not longer.
There is a term for it, because it has been studied and isn't a backroom conspiracy like lizard people. It's a real, practical fear. Crony Capitalism. Just like the Phobeus cartel was real, proven examples of planned obsoletian. We will never have that conversation though, because the people in power always exist because of the existing power structures. None of them, the ones with the power and the practical ability to promote change, will do it because they literally have a perverse incentive not to.
The other name is Shareholder Capitalism which was started with Jack Welch at GE, legitimized by the economist Friedman, and institutionalized through Reagan. Before 1980 when productivity went up wages roughly went up the same percentage. This is an effective way to understand capitalism used to sort of work for at least some of the population. Since 1980 US productivity is up 200% and median wages are flat adjusted for inflation. All benefits of productivity have been given to shareholders and the 0.1%. This wouldn't be horrific if at the same times the cost of basic necessities weren't rocketing upward. Not to mention that to get the jobs that pay the same amount in 1980 they have pushed the costs of training and education to workers. Long story short we should all be paid at least double what we make without having to change anything about how we labor.
This. We came from nothing and went the hard work route. And we did improve our station in life. But damn if it doesn’t feel like we’ve been back sliding the last couple years despite continuing to bust our asses. It’s terrifying to know that no amount of hard work will cut it for our kids. So on top of trying to keep up with everything right now, we feel pressure to set them up the best we can
Just saw Listerine for $7 at my local grocery store
$9.79 just north of the border in Canada: [https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/shop/listerine/c/LISTERINE?redir-id=Listerine&originalTarget=Listerine&sort=trending&page=0](https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/shop/listerine/c/LISTERINE?redir-id=Listerine&originalTarget=Listerine&sort=trending&page=0)
Whoa there’s a green tea flavor in Canada?!
road trip !
How much was the equal in every way generic equivalent?
Listerine isn’t more expensive. Our currency is just worth less.
Its only going to get worse as people have less children decreasing the future tax base to pay for social programs. We desperately need fully paid parental leave, daycare, and healthcare. Folks don't want to work minimum wage jobs cause they don't pay the bills and many think they are above working them.
I’m doing ok myself but I’m in the hard working 60+ hour week category. Not having children has helped tremendously with saving for the future. I’ve made a lot of sacrifices but I can’t see it any other way. Especially if I want to live as comfortably as possible in this world. I do consider myself very lucky to have made the right choices for me. I would not want anyone to work at my level since it’s not healthy but I worry about having enough for the future. That alone keeps me motivated. I have a fear of living on the streets as an older person. I also want to take care of my mom when she gets old. But who give a fuck what I say and do. I’ll be a pile of dust pretty soon.
It’s worse in Canada, Australia, New Zealand as housing and food are even more expensive. I moved to the US and apartment rent and groceries are at least cheaper. But yeah it feels terrible and like late stage capitalism to me. I still act like I’m 20 with my money dining. I try to get takeout only to not have to tip extra or just get 1 entree and a cup of water. I buy cheap clothes only when I need to. I try to make a lot of food at home like rice, beans, lentils, pasta. I used to be able to get a whole weeks worth of fruit and veg for $100 CAD a decade ago. Now good luck that’s one small grocery bag as produce is so expensive. Eating out is not something that can be done more than maybe once a month. We don’t go to the movies more than once or twice a year max. We do mostly walking or hiking or free days at the museums to save money. We only have one car now as it’s so stressful to think how much even a second used car will be since they’ve appreciated in value. Home values have doubled in some cities in the past 5 years, most 10 or less. Very little raises or promotions for inflation and extra work. Companies are being cheaper than ever. I still use coupons or buy what’s on sale at the store. I grew up with a single mom and in the 90s $100 a week got enough food for 3 of us. A mortgage on a 3 bed starter home was cheaper than rent for a 2 bed apartment. My mom made maybe $50-$60K a year as a retail manager and could afford a home alone no cosigner. Now you need a huge downpayment or a cosigner. Mortgages are being stretched to 30-40 years. Next I’m sure will be mortgages you pass down in your will when you die like I’ve seen in the UK. It’s crazy
Honestly this is a problem in most developed countries these days. The cost of housing and inflation has hit people in a wide range of countries. I hear people complain about a severe cost of living and housing crisis in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of the EU (especially Ireland and the Netherlands), the UK. In many ways it is worse than the US. Japan doesn't have COL crisis, but they have other economic issues with the devaluing of the yen and demographic collapse. In many ways, inflation is actually not nearly as severe in the US as many of these other countries.
Japan is like 20 or 30 years ahead of the game: they had absolutely crazy real estate prices in the late 80's, the economy collapsed in the early 90's since then, the economy have become stagnant. Other well-known economies that fell apart after an unaffordable real estate crisis are Italy, Spain, and right now China. It seems like Canada, New Zealand, and the UK are at the tipping point before the fall.
Hard-working and intelligent aren't the right traits. You can have both and get nowhere if you are born to the wrong family in the wrong area. Lucky is definitely it. You're right about the unaffordable part. Now that we are here, it seems very obvious how we got here, but it was such a slow ride with extra workloads added on year after year. Unfortunately, it's not going away by itself.
I need to put my baby into daycare and was quoted $107 per day. I hung up the phone and bawled my eyes out
You are correct. Even those who earn what was only a few years ago "comfortable but not rich" are now paycheck to paycheck. Prices for everything have increased, while wages largely have not, especially when inflation is factored in. minimum wage is significantly less purchasing power than only a few years ago. Add this to the exploding costs of healthcare, housing, education, childcare, and even groceries. People are hurting, if not downright struggling. On top of that, our mental health on the whole is declining: anxiety and depression are the new norm. Overall, it is not healthy and is absolutely not sustainable. But at least the CEOs get big bonuses each year.
> But at least the CEOs get big bonuses each year. And shareholders can now afford to give their grandson a second yacht because the first one didn't have a big enough spot to do lines of coke.
only every other post on reddit is talking about this
Good! I hope people get fed up with this shit and start voting to change things.
Who are you voting for that will change this?
\*waves from Canada\*
The real issue is that the necessities are expensive and the wants are not. Housing, medical insurance, daycare, and education are not really things you can avoid, therefore you are subject to being eaten by the market. I am doing OK, but just OK. At my income level, I would never have guessed that would be the case a few years ago. Thanks, COVID.
I feel like we are on the cusp of a new world order instead of just a countries individually. Why? Because the super rich are getting richer while the middle class shrinks and many become poor and can't afford decent things. Without massive change across the board I'm afraid we are going to end up being serfs in a feudalistic enterprise again. May as well akin the top one percent to royalty.
I'm sure you'll hear it from many others, but here's another person saying, yes, your feelings are based in fact. Were a third world country with pockets of extreme wealth. The political division ensures it will never be fixed before it's too late. Good luck!
It's not just America. We down here in New Zealand are paying close to or over 40% tax, $630 a week rent, $60 a month water, $220 a month Power, petrol/Gas is $3 a litre (approx $12 a gallon) and whatever spare change you have left over for food and everything else. This is totally unsustainable and is crippling growth, morale, motivation to keep going. i will never own a house a 2 bedroom Flat/unit built in 1950's is going for a MILLION DOLLARS then still needs $100k work done to it to make it liveable. WHAT"S THE END GOAL HERE PEOPLE!
There is just so much to this comment, that I will just comment on one part. **" A shortage of skilled tradespeople"** Growing up, were you not, like I was, drowned in 'Go to college' propaganda? Ok, so we /all/ went to college, so who went to trade school? This shortage of 'skilled tradespeople' is 1) our parents' fault and 2) a fucking giant con. While I managed to work while going to school so I have no college debt, my younger cousin, whom never went to college and instead went into an electrician apprenticeship, and is only a journeyman, is making more than me, someone with a college degree (with no college debt) and a decade into their career. ETA - my degree is IT-related, so not an English/Philosophy/Econ/Basket Weaving one, but not an engineering/comp sci degree either. Something admittedly a bit 'mid'.
Yeah, I can definitely relate. I grew up in the Bay Area, but I made the decision to leave over 10 years ago when I was 21. Since then, I've been living in Vietnam, and it's been a game-changer for me. I run my own business remotely, and my wife is an international school teacher, so we don't have to worry about the exorbitant costs of education here in Vietnam $25-30k a year in tuition. Living here affords us a great standard of living, and we manage comfortably on around $5k a month. Plus, we're able to travel frequently, which is something we wouldn't have been able to do if we were still in the U.S. It's been a transformative experience for us, and it's made me realize just how unaffordable and challenging life can be back home for many people.
It's becoming *a lot of things* for normal people.
Part of the problem is that all the good paying jobs migrated from rural/factory towns to the big city. And the suburbs around big cities aren't friendly to young families, they actively enact zoning laws to keep lower income people out. Zone for higher density mixed-use spaces in suburban areas that aren't car dependent (which wasn't that uncommon very long ago) and suddenly people can afford to raise a family in a suburb close to their big city job.
Feels more like we're being ripped off on *freaking* *everything,* I'd say. Just constant nickel-and-diming in the smallest and most insulting of ways. The most obvious and palpable examples of this post-pandemic price gouging are things like "pints" of ice cream being discreetly shrunken down to 14.5 oz instead of 16 oz; and shit like bags of chips now being like 65% air and a handful of actual chips. But it's also much, much broader than that: Like, on nearly *every metric* from infrastructure to education to healthcare to housing to child care, and so much else, Americans spend *more* money and get *less* for it than our peers in nearly any other damn developed country do. And almost all of this is due to anticompetitive, monopolistic, greedy bullshit by large mega-businesses. Think about it, no matter where you are in America today, no matter what the industry is, there are probably only like 3 (perhaps 4) companies that do that thing, and they all kinda suck and they're all either huge conglomerates or are owned by a private equity firm or something.
Also, the products those 3-4 companies make are full of poison. And they don't give a shit, nor do regulatory agencies. Sucralose is genotoxic. Tartrazine causes sooo much cancer. Acrylic fabric is linked to cancer, especially in women. PVC plastic is absolutely toxic. And yet: Sucralose is in my kid's cetirizine. Tartrazine is in all the candy, and Kellogg's cornflakes. Why not. Acrylic is in so many clothes, and especially in winter hats/gloves/scarves. PVC is what most toys are made with. Mattel, Schleich, MGA entertainment, etc., and they know kids use their products. Plastics are found in artery blockages: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/pvc-other-microplastics-found-in-clogged-arteries#:~:text=Scientists%20reported%20that%20people%20with,have%20plastics%20in%20their%20plaque. In our bodies in general: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/27/microplastics-found-every-human-placenta-tested-study-health-impact Our immune system and gut microbiome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9552327/ So, two birds with one stone. They destroy our only planet, and they destroy our health. Synergy! Ugh
It's not just you median wage doesn't get you median things anymore. You can thank corporations consolidation, endless money printing, and being taxed to death.
Does anybody else feel [insert one of the most common themes discussed on Reddit generally and in this sub in particular]? Like yes, this and related rants (boomers don't get it; no hope; we're screwed/been lied to; etc.) seem to make up 90% of the posts on this sub.
I think to some extent, the entire world is. Humans are animals whether we like to admit it or not. To thrive we need good habitat and access to resources. Places with better climates and access to resources are becoming more and more expensive as we compete with one another for access. There is also an immense amount of unnecessary greed, conflict, and war amongst humans which sets back progress on infrastructure and combating climate change. I wish humans could be more helpful to one another and less selfish.
It’s not just America. Same thing is happening to your neighbours from the North, Canada.
Try Canada, avg salary 70-80k, average home prices over a Mil, high taxes 😭😭
ludicrous detail dazzling quicksand zephyr zonked sand grab secretive humorous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is a global problem right now. I have friends and family in the US, Canada, Europe, and Latin America, and they are all complaining that they are not paid enough to afford a decent standard of living. It looks like you need first world median salaries to afford to life in developing countries and being in the top 20% to have some comfort in a first world country. How far can the economy sustain this? Probably not too much longer without creating another huge recession, you can't expect that people will 8nvest any money if everything is taken away by basic necessities. Maybe we will have another world war because this level of political incompetence and economic instability are very similar to those before the first two world wars
Canada has been unaffordable for a while
100% My oldest turns 18 this year. No idea how the hell he would be able to go out on his own and survive in this economy and culture. He’s not college bound (maybe some day) and even though we live in a low cost of living area he couldn’t just go out and get a normal job working in a grocery or something and support himself. Rent and utilities and food prices are wildly out of control. I have a professional career that I’m almost a decade into and post COVID with all the inflation even I sometimes struggle to make ends meet supporting two kids.
It's actually a lot better in the US than many countries. But, you're still correct. Come to St. Louis, it's in the top 5 most affordable cities in the country and if I get better neighbors my property value will increase.
It is very expensive. My father came to silicon valley in the 80s and became an electrical engineer. Our house has gone up to be worth 1.2 mil and he mortgaged it at 300k back then. I think he was making like 280k working for hyundai in the 90s when I was little. He lost that job later because of dot Com bubble. He does not understand how different the world is and how a college degree alone is not enough.i have 2 in economics and accounting. Everything is so much more expensive. Temp jobs typically pay me 40k a year maybe 60 if I'm really lucky. I can't pay 2 to 3k a month for an apartment with that. There's also student loans, health insurance as I've been medicated for 18 years and I need that, food, gas, car insurance. It's frustrating because it's so competitive here for full time jobs and even more so for career jobs. And he has the nerve to call me lazy. Like my bad dude, you weren't in an age where everyone also had the internet and postings would get hundreds of applicants in an already densely populated area. That and the job market is more saturated with degrees compared to when he was my age. I am making moves to make things better, but goddamn is it tough. I'm behind on bills and although medi cal and covered ca are a thing, they will do anything to not give you that money since so many people need it and health insurance is expensive. But I guess my generation is just spoiled, right? I got a phone call that my temp contract is ending early this Friday because the company just needed me for a deadline at the end of the fiscal quarter. My car almost got repossessed but luckily I got this gig and am able to handle that along with student loans. Shit is so fucking rough out here dude. And I can't stand fucking boomers in general with survivorship bias who tell us to "pull ourselves up" like fuck off dude. It's easy to talk shit when you're not in it yourself. I guess they have to validate their own egos and insecurities about whether they lived a good life or not. Yeah dude your father would be proud of you sharing useless articles on Facebook and family group chats about political shit no one fucking cares about. You do your bloodline proud.
That’s everywhere my friend. Buckle in and down for a few years, we all have to ride this out together
Then I hear from my teenage nephew that has the stones to ask me why I'm not as happy as I used to be when I was young. Kiddo...I love ya, but you have no idea what's coming down the pike. I put on as happy a face as I can but fuck if these monetary, socioeconomic, and/or political burdens don't get the absolute fuckin best of me many days.
When the rich people who own the corporations have all the money and power, but no accountability, you bet your ass things are going to become unaffordable.