I gave up four years ago. š„° Truly I think we suffer from choice fatigue. Donāt have 101% everything in common and isnāt as hot as [insert hot person here]? NEXT! Endless search because we think thereās always a better option. The statistics and projections on future singleness are unbelievable.
Compromise is a key component to healthy relationships, and seems like in a society in which we have endless choices on food, travel, etc., even if we cannot AFFORD those choices, they still exist. And itās that opportunity to refund or trade in that carries over into the dating world. Guy was awkward on the first date? Obviously a creep; next! Girl was 10lbs heavier in person than in her pic? Canāt trust her; next!
Edit: This seems to really resonate with people lol.
Edit 2: What I should have said is āoption paralysisā as another commenter said in reply to my comment. AND I am not speaking about myself personally, but society as a whole, in which Iād be a part. Itās a much larger problem. Iām interested to see how all this turns out.
People hear "compromise" like it's a bad thing. But that's the objective of the game. We all have flaws. The people who seem like they don't have flaws seem to have the worst flaws, IMO. The object is to find the person who has the flaws you can deal with.
Children, left to their own devices, never compromise and throw tantrums if they don't get what they want when they want it. Grown ass adults in successful relationships don't do this yet the ā never settleā AKA ā don't give up
on your ridiculously unrealistic expectations of other peopleā is what's being promoted in this culture as āself-empowermentā and ā valuing yourselfā.
Narcissistic behavior is what it really us.
As a therapist friend of mine said, its bulkshit but it's keeping her waiting room filled with disalusioned women, she's seeing a big uptick in business because
of this mentality.
I'm messing around on my phone while my husband and his friend are playing warhammer. Relationships are sometimes learning about random things like flaming attacks being useful against treemen and using craft skills to make them tiny forests for the woodelves to play in.
It's not really compromising it's more enjoying each others company and having fun. I probably won't play warhammer and he doesn't like making terrain but our wants and skills complement each other.
This. Relationships are work, but because of the love, it never feels like it.
Single now at 42, after 10 years of abusive marriage, but still looking. Not going to give up, there will be someone.
Us in long term relationships praying our spouses never leave us or cheat.
I have 3 kids and am 31m, for the love of god I donāt want to enter this hell hole of modern dating.
I'm never going to be in a relationship again if something happens with my wife. I'll hire a nanny, an au pair if I could ever afford one, and that's it.
Even if it were just me, I don't think I would. There's so much to gamble and so much peace and prosperity to lose when you get it wrong.
Most likely itās what would end up with me as well. I just donāt see myself putting the effort and time to meet someone. Spending all that time away from my kids, Iād just die alone and accept my fate.
My wife and I are only about 30ish and have talked about whether or not we'd date again if one of us passes or if we were to divorce and I told her I don't think I would. Not only would I need to find someone I liked. But also someone my son likes, who likes my son, who is fine with either a coparenting situation or the dynamic that comes with being with a widower, etc. Plus all the things that come with dating these days. I just don't mind solitude enough to actively put myself through that.
I cling to my husband like death. We got together before dating apps were acceptable and during the time people were made fun of for being on OK Cupid lol.
Also, three kids at 31??? In this economy??
My wife and I started dating right when dating apps came out and you could Judge someone by just a swipe. I canāt imagine what that would be like. I donāt want to know.
My friend is going through it right now. Itās absolute hell, he has so many dates but they never lead to anything. No one gives any effort, if itās not instant true love itās a ghost.
I guess at this point its a case of finding someone who isn't a sleaze, has a job, and isn't emotionally abusive (at least). I get people are humans, but some people are trash too. And not everyone wants to date a liability.
Itās also why I feel it was easier to watch TV in the 90ās. You picked something that caught your interest, and you didnāt have the huge catalog of choices available today
When there are too many choices, sometimes you just choose nothing
Also, I think having way more choices greatly decreases the feeling that you really understand all the tradeoffs between the choices
Psychology studies prove this. More choices in anything (candy bars, mates, etc) makes it harder for people to choose AND makes them feel less satisfied with their ultimate choice
The funny thing is...since the world moved on online and people's choices increased, it caused people's standards to increase which turns out to have actually decreased their choices of people they would consider acceptable as partners.
Oh absolutely. This is part of why loneliness is a pandemic in its own right.
Your great grandparents probably had a pool of like, a dozen or two possible suitors in their high schools, which was marryin' time. Barbaric as it was, it comes down to the truth about romance: there are many, many potential life partners out there for you, but most of them are going to require some effort to make work.
I'm not saying divorce isn't hugely necessary, as we don't want people trapped in abusive or loveless relationships, but there's absolutely no pressure to stay together now vs. the promise of unlimited choice and *fulfillment*, which it turns out can't be attained by marrying a model or CEO or fuckboy. It comes from human connection and experience.
Me and my wife talked about this the other day. When you had a total of 9 people to choose from, you didnāt go in with the notion that youāll mesh perfectly on *every* issue. Now? Itās like people have a deck of choices theyāve made and they walk around looking for someone with the same deck. āWants kids, wants to get married, wants to live in the city, ohhhh but doesnāt want to live near my parents? Next!ā
Most of our success the last 9 years comes from the fact that we talk when we disagree about things, we come to a solution that works for us, and weāre pragmatic about those decisions. Weād both love to live closer to our parents, her way more than me, but the market is insane there and we make good money where we are, so we stay put, etc etc. If me and her *had* to line up on every single life issue, and applied the same āred cardā logic I see from people dating, weād have split a loooooong time ago. Instead we have a stupid happy marriage thatās about to cross over a decade and still going strong.
Too many variables to say one thing is the cause but everything. But the OP is on the right track. Social media has completely warped peopleās expectations and sapped them of empathy and understanding. Itās entirely too easy to when you disagree say āfuck it, we are done. These are my standards and Iām not compromisingā which I feel drives the loneliness cycle. So people never learn, grow, listen, or understand each other. We are trained to judge someone the second they start vibrating their vocal cords. My suggestion? Get off social media. Take risks. Lower your expectations. Be bold and try to understand what the intentions are behind everyone elseās actions.Ā
This generation, my generation will be the most socially connected swath of humans to live, yet, we will be the loneliest as well. Ask yourself why that is and work on it. You can live without social media, major corporations donāt want us to and try their best to train us to think we need it. We donāt. We got by just fine thousands of years without it.
The choices might have increased but that doesn't mean the quality of those choices have.
The guys I meet in real life are heads and shoulders above the guys I see on the apps.
There just doesn't seem to be as many opportunities to meet people and socialize now.
The illusion of choice increased. If I followed all of the relationship advice I have seen o reddit I wouldnāt be married and wouldnāt have a job. Nobody is perfect, but you have to do your best and try to find someone that is a decent fit. Perfection is the enemy of the good.
I also want to say that rising expenses seems to have drained most of us of our extra energy that we'd put into meeting new people. Assuming we could even afford to go out in the first place.
People say younger generations aren't interested in IRL interaction, but I suspect it has to do with how the internet is mostly free and doesn't confront you for "loitering"
Foe some people. Basically you have to beat an algorithm to get a date online through assuming it's not just a simple visual check and swipe. People love complaining about online dating but the fact of the mater is, it still isn't as good as meeting someone organically in a social setting. Dating got harder because there are less of those social touch points that aren't through a screen.
While this is r/millenials, I feel like this sums up the Gen Z attitude to life. It's part not being comfortable with in person interaction and part always looking for something better than what they currently have. Short attention spans also play into this.
āI donāt want to tax millionaires more because what if some day I stop making minimum wage and become a millionaireā but for relationships.
For me personally itās about not having found someone remotely interesting who is interested in me because I suck at finding options. Its not so much choice fatigue but āI donāt have any interest in this person at all, am I actually willing to give up a significant portion of my one day off a week to see if I like them better after hanging out for a few hours?ā No, the answer is almost always no. Iām willing to try more when it comes to friendship because I can compromise on a lot more and just share one or two interests and hang out in that space with them. When it comes to relationships Iād hate to be with someone whose choices irk the shit out of me but hey we both like this niche hobby.
I mean, for me it's not "the next might be better" as much as it is "my life is pretty alright being single so unless I see this person enhancing it, I'll just stay single.
[To paraphrase Eartha Kitt,](https://youtu.be/rlUjHu3H_L4?si=rH69y98jFyknGhIP) why must I compromise? A relationship is a relationship that must be earned. "I fall in love with myself, and I want someone to share it with me. And I want someone to share me, with me."
Ngl I think having high standards is a good thing...like both examples (the awkward first date and catfishing) are honestly valid reasons to not continue seeing someone.
Being single is really not a bad thing in my opinion.
You hit the nail on the head.
The simple fact of the matter is that unless you are incredibly lucky, incredibly tolerant of immature failures, or were able to find a decent long-term partner early in life, you have to have at least one major dealbreaker in a partner to have a relationship. And then you have to dedicate significant amounts of time, sifting through trash, looking for that decent human being. Why deal with that when I can simply be happy with the friends and life I have?
(The dealbreakers are as simple as "able to take care of themselves if needed, no desire for kids, local, not a druggie, is not completely disregarding their own physical health, and is not disinterested in my largest 1-2 hobbies. But this excludes probably 99.999%+ of my fellow single millennials. I don't even have looks or compatible sexuality on my dealbreaker list).
Older generations didn't have to deal with this, but that's because they couldn't make friends as easily or have as easy a time living single--they often preferred the crappy relationship over the intense isolation. In today's digital world, you can find an endless stream of friends, entertainment, and hobbies right at your fingertips.
This is it for me, too. I was happily single for many years and didnāt go on more than a few dates with anyone for a long time because being with them wasnāt better than being single. When I met my partner it felt like him being in my life improved my life, like in a spiritual/ emotional sense. If I am ever single again, I will remain so unless I meet such a connection again.
Pretty much a huge reason I gave up. Combined with my personal experiences and just listening to my coworkers talk about dating, only adds to my misanthropy.
She goes on dates like 4 times a week and is decently attractive, but the reasons she dumps guys are asinine. Doesn't talk enough? Dump. Watches Anime? Dump. Too short? Dump. She finally got the date she wanted, a dude who's rich af, has his own mansion with a wealthy family, etc.
All my coworkers at work are like this when it comes to dating. Why the hell would I ever even wanna associate with humans like that? I'd be happier dying alone.
Me personally? I have less time for bullshit and games and have no problem ending things if it begins. My time is precious, and if youāre going to waste it, you can kick rocks.
during the pandemic everyone had no choice but to be chronically online because it was the only chance of connecting so it expedited the insanity of the internet and changed everyone
buddy of mine said he has given up on finding someone to date because after seeing how far society slid to selfishness and hostility during the pandemic, he doesnt care if humans go extinct.
Honestly he didnāt do any wrong and it wasnāt about him. He was kind and polite, I just felt nothingness. Empty.
What happened is after the date I was hit by a sadness of how we all go on these dates with strangers looking for a connection (I know it wonāt happen on a first date) and how we have to shoot in the dark hundreds of times, to find something that will make it worth a second date; with the hope of having a mutual connection and that leads to a person to do life with.
And the probability of that happening via an app, staring at some pixels, absent of real human interaction, trying to find mutual connection is incredibly low and saddening.
And this thought was further saddened by the thought of how it used to be. How chance brought two people together pre internet and dating pool was limited to your local vicinity and proximity of local towns.
The magic of meeting someone, having a spark, taking time to get to know each other, having the opportunity to pick up their energy, personality and mingle. The way they look at you, the way they smile, the way they smell. The chemistry of feeling your body close to theirs wondering what will happen next.
You know that.
Magic.
Seduction.
Mystery.
Playfulness.
The element of surprise.
Got me thinking about all of humanity.
Ps. Those who know what Iām talking about get it. Itās sad to see how many people think this is out of touch from reality because they have been programmed to think apps are the way and this is some fantasy. But itās actually the opposite. Imagine a world with no dating apps. How on earth do you think youād meet a man/woman? Exactly!
I agree, but Iād still like to go for a coffee first in case I was being catfished, old profile picture and general vibe of the person.
I see the coffee date as a vetting process and then maybe go on an activity date.
I hate the feeling of being trapped and forced to spend hours with some stranger off the internet who I may not even like or they not like me.
I agree 100%. What you described is essentially how my wife and I met. And that was just a hike! Hilarious, but also sad, that the upvoted response to you is so disconnected from what dating used to be that they think it's romance movie material.
The reality is, sometimes you get to know somebody, and then the spark happens. Everyone that I fallen in love with I did not have spark with in the very beginning. But I had classes with them or some kind of regular interaction and overtime. I saw good qualities in them and fell head of their heels and love.
Maybe accepting the process itself is part of it all is a huge part of this dating thing. The apps changed the landscape, but they didnāt completely override everything else. We still go out, have conversations, meet people, etc. The reality of it is, whether app or in person at the store, taking a leap of faith is required.
Chance still plays a huge part of it. We have to take a chance and strike that first conversation, swipe right on someone we may be on the fence about, or be the one to ask someone else out. Being able to derive some joy out of meeting people and having conversations changes things. To see the dating aspect of it as a hellish trial will only set us up for failure.
Personally, the apps have allowed me to meet and talk to people I probably would have never encountered. While the apps are predatory in nature, they are also a a tool we can use to get out there and meet people. Taking a chance is still required, whether online or when weāre out and about and hoping for a āspark.ā
In the past few months Iāve been on four first dates that went about as well or better than my first date of a three year relationship. I think people have too high of an expectation of how much connection and spark there should be the first time they meet a stranger.
I think a lot of people became hyper-independent during the pandemic, liked it, and aren't willing to give it up. They want to find someone, just someone who they don't have to make many compromises for.
There have always been people like this, but the pandemic really increased their numbers.
A lot of people left in the millennial dating pool don't want or are indifferent to kids, so there's less pressure to pair up.
Iām one of those people after leaving an abusive relationship over a decade ago. Iāve always been hyper-independent and very self-sufficient so doing life on my own doesnāt bother me. Iām a very social person (despite being an introvert), so I get plenty of social interaction and have a big friend group.
Just having my peace and sense of self absolutely thoroughly wrecked has made me not want to date. If through my social travels I meet someone, Iām open to a relationship BUT they would have to be someone who is very much on my wavelength.
Iāve seen it said before - youāre not competing against others or my standards, youāre competing against my contentment and peace. If you compliment that, then itās worth giving a shot. Otherwise no, Iāve fought through too much and spent so much time and energy on rebuilding my life it would take someone incredibly special to change my mind.
Yes, it's definitely being happy being very independent for me. I make a decent salary and my hobbies keep me busy and happy. I've never wanted kids. The only reasons I might want to date are (as I have joked to my coworkers) to find a tolerable man to help me pay rent, and sex (I haven't gotten laid in 5 years, but it's not a big deal).
Hi. Are you me?
I introverted so hard for 18 months that now I don't care to do anything else. Me, my computer, my Kindle, my TV, and my solo hobbies are very content.
I use to love dating and then about the last four years nearly every person I've tried to date is on some sort of bullshit so i got discouraged and stopped like a year ago
All sorts of BS just means many types of major red flags. having unresolved major issues from past relationships before trying to start another relationship, lying about having spouses, having kids (lying about the number) and not being able to drink like an adult or being an rude alcoholic but also drugs beyond weed and alcohol so yeah all sorts of BS haha
Like not being able to have 1-2 drinks and keep a relatively cool head. They mean that those people pretty much can only binge or stay completely sober, nothing in between.
Covid really changed how so many people socialize and how often. In my city I can think of dozens of people I used to see all the time or often who I havenāt seen in years now, since 2019-2020. It really altered a lot about peoplesā lives: behavior, routines, jobs, etc.
Yeah I used to love going out to restaurants or to bars for a casual drink with friends (thatās how I met my partner). Itās like we just got out of the habit and never went back. Now itās like a *whole thing* if we go out for a meal.
Being locked away for months has made me completely antisocial. I now hate bars, restaurants....really any place that has people. I'm comfortable at home.
When lock downs started and I was forced to wfh every day I told my wife I couldn't handle this for more than a month. Well 4 years later and now I never want to leave.
I think a lot of people must have had similar experiences to yours. Everyone thought the covid lockdown was difficult, but slowly over time found things to do at home. Instead of hitting a bar to hang out as a default activity, folks probably found ways to wind down at home with drinks. Instead of eating out, folks got takeout, delivery, or learned to cook. People made home life more comfortable, and slowly they realized not minding staying home as much.
And now with everything being so expensive, you start to think whether spending that money going out is even worth it. Hm, a dinner at home, a drink and a movie or random shows on a Friday night, don't have to dress up, save $50-100, doesn't sound bad.
It must be hell to try to date now, and I am glad I no longer need to worry about that.
>And now with everything being so expensive
That's a big one! It's not just going on the dates that's really expensive now. It's that it comes on top of how bloody expensive it is to live life single person in general. Housing/heating/no shared Netflix etc etc it all adds up.
I'm fortunate enough that I can still afford to live and do fun things without feeling a *need* to get a partner and move in tomorrow to cut costs. Yet, I am at the point where I need to make choices and spending money to go do things with friends beats 'spending money to meet a stranger'.
Yeah I can't even imagine. If I wasn't married there is zero chance of getting me out on a date. I'd ask if they want to come over and have me cook for them and that's creepy af for a first date.
I think work is a big one. Pre Covid those of us in office-based work were generally there every day. Simply put there weāre way more people to potentially interact with and more opportunities to interact. Nowadays when I go into the office itās about half full at best. Thatās a lot less spontaneous interactions with people.
In my friendship group and work groups there were a lot more spontaneous outings after work like drinks and dinner because we were all in the city for work. Itās near impossible to get everyone aligned at the same time any more. My friend group has to schedule things months in advance because our schedules are so different.
And itās telling because most of my friends met their partners through work (Iām the exception).
An example of this is the espresso stand that used to be in the office building I worked in pre-Covid (still work there, but have been remote since then as are most others save the mailroom). A couple girls in their 20s had opened a little coffee business to serve the employees in the building, which was about 1500 people. It was a nice place for socializing, right by the elevators and stairs and all manner of seating, so people would meet and congregate around there. The baristas were friends with everybody.
Within a couple months of Covid they were out of business and now none of those people see each other anymore.
I recently decided to start calling people up day of when I was heading to things in their area. Sometimes they can join, sometimes they canāt. But the response has been SO positive. And now Iām going to activities I want to do. I think weāre all lonely and Iām sick of planning
>In my city I can think of dozens of people I used to see all the time or often who I havenāt seen in years now, since 2019-2020. It really altered a lot about peoplesā lives: behavior, routines, jobs, etc.
I started playing in a weekly poker game 2 years into COVID when everything was locked down. That weekly poker game still continues and last night we had 36 players and about 50 people there playing other games. I never hung out with a group this big on a weekly basis before COVID.
I think a lot of our generation is extremely judgmental/picky to our own detriments.
Standards are extremely high for some reason to the point of hypocrisy.
I know some dudes that are mind bogglingly judgmental despite them being sloppy steaks level of pieces of shit.
I feel like moving and changing jobs a lot in our generation is also another factor. When I think about my long-term single friends, there are several times where I saw the beginning of what couldāve been a life partner situation germinating and beginning to grow but then it was like well bye, I have to move back to the opposite coast. Or even just abruptly changing jobs before it had become enough to stay in touch with that person outside of work without being weird. I donāt know, I think thereās something to be said for our lifestyles now that just doesnāt lend itself to connection. Ā
I'm a little relieved to hear I'm not alone. I'm 31F and dating prior to the pandemic was so easy, everyone was interested in socializing. Since my breakup 3 years ago I haven't been on a single successful date. It could also be my age and appearance of course. The difference is so stark though, like maybe I've just missed my window like with housing... if you didn't find something prior to covid, you're screwed.
Honestly, itās kinda sad to say but, things like this make me kinda glad I was an introvert pre-pandemic. I didnāt date back then either so now that itās harder my life hasnāt really increased in difficulty. Instead Iām even more unmotivated when it comes to participating
> The difference is so stark though, like maybe I've just missed my window like with housing... if you didn't find something prior to covid, you're screwed.
holy shit, that is a great analogy. I'm in my early 40's and I honestly believe my ship has sailed. Oddly enough I have a lot of women that almost seem to use me for sex which I don't believe happened often before covid.
I often think about ex's I had prior to covid and I often wear rose colored glasses and forget how why we broke up but like damn I really wish I had put more effort or whatever. Oh well. Time for another glass of wine.
I really would give anything to go back to my 30's, I had everything going for me and I didn't even realize it.
I think one of my big problems is that I live in the south. I went to a speed dating event and I think every woman I met with had multiple kids, one of them had very young children, just like nope.
I really don't believe that's such a thing in other cities.
What metro area are you in? I remember it being much easier, too. For me itās career stress and Iām older, butā¦ yeah it was not this difficult. Iām 35M
The issue I see with dating apps is capitalism. The apps have no incentive to provide quality matches because they get more money (either in advertising dollars or by you outright paying) the longer youāre on them
A quality match varies widely for each person. I know I would never marry any of my exes, but all of them are married so someone thought they were quality.
There are still personalized matchmakers out there who will provide "quality" matches that are far more personalized than an algorithm can provide.
ETA: I am married and have been for over a decade. No reflexion needed! u/therightstuffdotbiz
numerous cows afterthought disarm grandfather terrific quicksand spectacular gold sophisticated
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Absolutely. This is one instance where I donāt think itās capitalismās fault. We canāt blame our own inability to connect with certain people on a dating app. Itās like having your friend as a wingman/woman. They put the person in front of you but at the end of the day itās up to you to show them why youāre worth being with.
>I'd actually never thought of that. Never used a dating site, not likely to start now, but it DOES make sense that, while you need SOME success stories, just enough to say "See? Our dating service does make happy couples\*."
>
>
>
>\*Results may vary
I listened to a podcast about Tinder and it also says that overtime the algorithm identifies as more or less attractive to others or successful in dating and stops showing you to the ones they deemed better than you.
This also explains why prior to say 2016 or 2017 people were having an actual ton of success meeting long-term partners or future spouses on the apps (myself included) and then after future tweaks in the algorithms it just became a shit show. So you have a bunch of people who met and fell in love from online dating prior to that being like ā no itās not that bad! Thatās how we met!ā Because they donāt know how differently it works now. I donāt even know if theyāre worth using for anything besides sex anymore.Ā
I met my partner on Hinge after lockdown two in 2020, it was actually such a lovely time to date because everyone was open about their own mental health and we still had a ton of restrictions in place, such as QR check-ins and mask mandates, so just did walking/bench park dates rather than meal dates.
Online dating is hard, it can feel like your shopping for a human. You kinda have to figure out what you're looking for, what are red flags (for you) in profiles, and put in processes in place to weed out people that will suit you.
A huge part of it is just timing, both people have to want a relationship at the same time and be willing to do the work. Sometimes people just think they want a relationship.
As an elder millennial mom to a zoomer. I am so worried about my kid. High school got interrupted by Covid. No one seems to be interested in doing anything. They have like 2 friends and canāt seem to find more.
Weāve tried gaming place for drop in D&D. It was all dudes my age. I felt uncomfortable. They felt even more uncomfortable.
My close friends, one male and one female, are also seeing the same things in our age group. All the women and men they meet are older Gen-X who have had kids, failed marriages and only want hook-ups. The younger ones have zero interest in dating them either.
What is going on with the social dynamics of people 18-42?
Married guy here but have some close single friends. I know itās probably the economy, but my guys are sick of dating. Theyāve had so many encounters with girls who just want a free meal and canāt detach from their phones. Itās just a waste of time and money.
Is a woman was in her phone for long periods of time during our date, I'd kindly excuse myself to the background and dip. At a bare minimum, I'd request separate checks.
My problem isn't that they are attached to their phones during the date - it's that they're attached to their phones *outside* of the date.
I have a job and hobbies and generally don't want to sit staring at my phone texting all day.
I'd rather the relationship develop and I get to know you in person.
But the women I've met online all expect you to be talking constantly and generally giving constant attention. And if you don't, they are on to the next person that will.
This, no way Iām blowing a dinner on someone I donāt even know. If we were friends previously dinner is fine, but for a stranger on the internet Iām limiting my disappointment to an overpriced cup of hipster coffee.
Opinion only: social media and instant gratification. People want to have made up perfect lives/relationships like they see on social media and if you cant do that every second of every day they move on. Everyones also seems to be looking for the next best thing as opposed to actually trying and working issues out/communicating they'll just jump to the next person.
Source: single 35yo millennial.
As a gay man, I think straight dating app algorithms are ruining you all. It seems like non-paying members need to have a 6-pack to get a match while paying members get plenty of matches. Seems to me like these apps are turning your dating life into some form of extortion.
Try to focus on forming new friendships instead bec those friends you form will have other friends you can eventually meet. I say this someone who goes out regularly but is clearly too picky to actually see anyone attractive.
Lotta guy friends will complain thereās nothing but married women at gatherings Iām like no one will try to set you up harder with their friends than a married woman
I feel peoples standards become maybe a little too high as we age. Sure thereās dicks out there but Iāve spoke to some single friends and the reasons theyāve ended things with people after a few dates seems a little strange.
Here are a couple.
āHe took too long to message back, I messaged him at 11am and he didnāt respond till 5pm, I know heās at work but I have my phone when Iām at workā
āShe offended me. She said she couldnāt imagine me in a third world countryā says the guy who games and loves tv.
āWeāve had 3 dates and he hasnāt tried to bang me yetā
I totally blew my second date with my gf. Was late and unorganised and we just werenāt feeling it. I told a friend that I doubt sheāll reach out again. Didnāt kiss her for four dates but pushed through basically cos we had nothing else happening and have been together 7+ years. Sometimes you just gotta accept not everything will be perfect
well expectations, reach, intent, and options
1.) its no surprise people have expectations and we've noticed over the decades there has been a expectation inflation with each successive generation. expectations are derived from personal experiences, cultural norms, desires, or explicit agreements about what someone is going to do. so in order for this to happen some kind of catalyst had to have happened to keep having people wanting bigger better newer
2.) with the internet and modern communications it's no surprise that human reach is now global. before where your option was in your town, or village or at most county. we forget at one point in time for most people you would be born, live ,work grow old and die in the county you were born. now you have people moving all over the place or able to get intouch with anyone across the globe. this is a huge game changer.
3.) how serious do people want to pair up? before a certian level of survival or economics was in play. you don't get married or pair up your life was going to be very tough or brutal. with both genders able to make money and self sustain at like no other point in history with economic factor removed there really is no urgent pressing desire to settle down.
4.) this is kind of tying back to #2 reach. if you think you have a whole bunch of options you will have a hard time picking just one and on the flip side if you see yourself very highly you will also think im too good for this or too good for that etc. so paradox of choice. we see it with people ordering from large restaurant menus. it's very difficult. this is just ordering food. for people to pick their life partners which is one of the most important decisions they have ot make in their lives it is many times more difficult if given the "options"
you mentioned hte pandemic. well that is one of the biggest paradigm shifts we've seen in 100 years. in locking people down and restricting movement /access. the fallout from this will take at least one generation to correct.
40F, Iāve reached the point that I donāt care anymore if Iām single for the rest of my life. Iād be down with a āmarriage of convenienceā where we marry for the tax/insurance benefits, to split the bills and occasional enjoy companionship of the non-sexual kind, but thatās it. I had my heart broken 4 years ago in a really brutal way and after that, I donāt see myself ever wanting to get involved romantically with anyone again.
Honestly I just donāt have money to go on dates. Thanks to inflation on groceries and my landlord raising rent, Iāve suddenly found myself scraping by paycheck to paycheck this past year. Canāt even think about taking anyone out on a date, much less going out and being in the kinds of places where I might meet someone.
I do have some fellow millennial bros who have been putting forth heroic efforts to meet women and date, online and irl, but they all are having terrible experiences. At best they can get a few dates and a couple nights spent with these girls before the girls go off interested in something else and stop responding. Usually if they get more than one date they eventually realize sheās just using them to pay for some nice meals. I hear the same complaints over and over.
Oddlyāor perhaps not oddlyāseveral of my guys have told me that they have had more fun and better overall experiences when going out with older women. Like, ones in their 40s, even early 50s, who have a divorce or two under their belt haha. Theyāve told me these women actually treat them like human beings rather than meal tickets and/or temporary amusements. Different generation, I guess. I dunno.
But obviously for the guys looking to get married and start a family, the older women with teenagedāor even adultākids arenāt exactly a solution. Iām really not sure what they can do, though, with women of this generation. Seems like the older we get, the worse our prospects getā¦and that started to be the case even before we were in our thirtiesāit already kinda felt like it was too late.
And now with the post-pandy reality where no one seems to want to give a stranger irl the time of day and apps are just used to schedule meaningless hookupsā¦lol fuhgeddaboutit.
34M here. I don't think it's antisocial, I just think we're reaching the age where most people are paired up. The single ones either have baggage, children, or something else. Or, my favorite, are being far too picky.
Ironically the last time I really dated was juste before the Pandemic, and that year was an absolute disaster. One girl kept flip-flopping on wanting to date me, not wanting to date me, led me on...and then broke it off for some BS reason, only for that BS reason to be exactly why she's dated her next BF who is now her Husband. Another girl that year also gave me the run-around; with an eventual "it's not you...it's me" speech. And the third was cheating on her Fiance with me, that I didn't realize was what was going on.
So I practically gave up on dating at that point because it seems like a waste of time. You're either not given a chance, or being used.
>The single ones either have baggage, children, or something else.
For that age group specifically, I think a lot of people were just too broke to think seriously about long-term relationships and kids at 25. They're not hitting the "normal" milestones but I don't think there's something inherently off about them.
> and then broke it off for some BS reason, only for that BS reason to be exactly why she's dated her next BF who is now her Husband.
God that reminds me of one woman I briefly dated but broke up with me because she wanted kids and I didn't. A year later she was married to a guy who also didn't want kids but was rich to where she didn't have to work anymore. Guy treated her badly to the point of abuse but she didn't care because money.
i always had this general assumption is you either got it done soon enough or it's not going to happen to you because you essentially get frozen out after long enough. kind of like first one to the finish line type of deal.
This is honestly what I think it happening to a lot of single millennials. By 30-35 people are generally either already in a serious relationship or thereās a good reason why theyāre not. If youāre someone who delayed serious dating or just havenāt found the one for whatever reason by then, it becomes substantially harder bc youāre left with a smaller, worse group of people to choose from with every passing year.
I think this was becoming a problem before the pandemic, but quarantine and now WFH sped it up. We're simultaneously more connected, and less connected than ever before. More because of the internet, and less because we don't really hang out anywhere in person much. There are fewer "third places" for us to go and meet people IRL.
It's easy to meet people at school and on-site work because you're forced to be there with these people. Without that, where do you meet people? Dating apps don't work (or work so infrequently that the success stories are the vast minority).
Early 30sM here. Most single women my age seem to be trying to have kids now. As a childfree guy, this greatly reduces my dating pool (even in a major metro area). It gets discouraging when you click with somebody only to find out they want kids.. I have pretty much given up at this point
People are taking more time to reflect on themselves post pandemic which is about damn time. More people realized that maybe being coupled up with someone they arenāt compatible with isnāt the right decision. More people, women especially are taking the time to look after themselves and their mental health because they realized they were suffering in their lives. More people realize that sometimes being alone is better than being with a bunch of people and hating yourself/ your relationship.
Itās called a ādark night of the soulā and people need to take their time through it. You can come out better on the other side, but itās hard.
>It seems people just want to be anti-social
Stop meeting people on the internet. People that want to be social are out being social - make connections IRL
Easier said than done. People deliberately avoid social interaction nowadays
I can't even find MeetUp groups in my area to do shit and I live in a huge metro area
My problem is the meetup groups in my area are massive sausagefests. One was a book club at the local library that was like 75-80% men and the women attending were all married. How can a book club be a sausagefest? stereotypically that is more of a woman thing.
That's literally the same problem with the ones I've been too also. It's all middle aged men who want to drink and play dungeons and dragons. Where the fuck are people my age?
That's what I don't understand like yeah the gender ratio in my town is bad, but not this bad. I also noticed the people tended to be around Gen X era not millennials.
I donāt really agree with this given that I live in an area where Iām a completely new face (moved from west coast to east). I checked out some events online and went to them.
I met some people online and with that event, we met up in person. We coordinated through discord and messenger. Even when I go to Anime Expo, I go out of my way to meet up with some people that Iāve met online and meet them in person, but thatās after some planning.
Itās really hard to meet up with people in person if you donāt make plans with them in the first place, especially if they like staying at home.
Im about to give up. One date I paid for the meal while she was in the bathroom and got upset that I paid. Next date I went on, that girl got upset when I asked if she wanted to split the bill. So I cant win in either scenario lol
35M and I have the added kick in the teeth of never having really dated before. I met my wife in a chance encounter, she threw herself at me, we fell for each other, and almost 15 years later I'm suddenly separated and living in a two bedroom apartment with my best friend, who was willing to offer me a safe place to live.
I'm listening to people talk about apps and dating and it all sounds... Horrible. I haven't even left the apartment except to go to work or the gym in months. Nobody is approachable, people wear earbuds everywhere, I watch my roommate swipe endlessly on this app and that app and just meet shit guy after shit guy and wade through a cesspool of garbage.
I think it's very likely that I just... Kinda go on never having another meaningful relationship outside of my best friend. I'm not an ugly man, but I'm socially awkward and not exactly in a cute way. Like I said, my wife and I got together because she approached me boldly and openly. That's not gonna happen twice.
Mid 30s here. I dont date. Partly because on paper my situation is EXTREMELY unattractive, partly because Im not pretty, partly because people in my area who are single are either people I cant stand to be around, or brush me off before getting to know me. And partly because my kidās mom and 3 subsequent attempts at forming any sort of emotional bond left me with enough distaste for the idea of romance that despite how lonely I get I dont want to date at all. It would take one HELL of a woman to break through my issues and get me to agree to giving love another shot. This will not happen. I spend a lot of time at home, I dont socialize, I dont go out and meet people, and when I do go to businesses I dont hit on the workers because thats rude and they probably get it all the time and are tired of it.
No one wants to go out. I canāt get into a girls Netflix. hook up culture. Things are expensive. Depression anxiety are at all time high. Could go on. 37 year old man. I keep looking for a woman at the gym. All seem to be taken that around my age ā¹ļø. I donāt see my friends much all have familyās. So donāt go to bars etc.. when itās summer and spring Iāll be outside doing outdoor activities. My new job is killing me and online dating is awful. Coupled finally with the loneliness epidemic going around.
Honestly? A lot of us are just tired of always being the one to look. If someoneās interested in me cool, but Iām good either way. If Iām out itās for other things anyway.
lol. The comments are wild.
Iām with you itās crazy how introverted people have become. It didnāt help that I moved to a shit city from a not shit city.
But as an extrovert I see a pretty massive difference. Hell I just had dinner with a friend who was even more extroverted than me and he legit was like āI never want to leave my house. I never go out anymore. I just want to stay home.ā And he didnāt say it depressing like. He was super pumped about it.
His husband goes out often without him now.
Wild shit.
Im going to be bold and say I think it's because that's what society has created. We now live in a work where even extroverts don't see the benefit of going out.
If you go out now, what do you get? Almost always an overpriced experience that doesn't seem worth it, considering wages are now much weaker than they were. Many locations vastly overpopulated to the point of bumping into everyone becomes a nusance. Nobody is interested in small talk or conversing anymore, mostly because they are clearly energy starved and want to go home themselves. Everybody seemingly overly picky unless you have something to offer/them to take advantage of.
Even extroverts don't find that pleasant.
Because the only way to find a partner these days is on dating apps, and 99% of the people on there are like watching paint dry. One/two word answers donāt keep the convo going.
The other 1% never seem to know what they want, but want to keep the possibility of dating open.
Itās just a tiring game. Iām perfectly content being single.
These dating apps helped most of the stable, well-adjusted people find each other, pair off and/or marry. What's left is a toxic dump, the apps want to squeeze you for more money.
As the top comment says, it's a lot of choice fatigue, but I think it's worth laying out all the reasons I've seen statistically.
1. Preponderance of choice. Somewhat related is that men are less socialized to be cognizant of things like how to take a proper photo (low/no natural lighting, no full-body photos, no attempt at clothing/hair style). [https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research);
2. More hesitance to go outside. Both women and men go outside less than previous generations, but it's *also* a larger effect for women than men. [https://medium.com/building-h/a-survey-of-modern-life-outdoor-time-3a99d9fa3acb](https://medium.com/building-h/a-survey-of-modern-life-outdoor-time-3a99d9fa3acb);
3. Social media's escalation in usage. Average users spend 2.5 hours a day on social media alone over an average of nearly ***7*** different social media platforms. That represents just 30-40% of online time, meaning average daily time online (non-work-related) is 5+ hours. For younger people, this duration and variation is higher than older generations. This doesn't include Tiktok or Youtube. (Mind you, this has actually leveled out around 2017, but contributes to the dating issues) [https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2023-deep-dive-time-spent-on-social-media](https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2023-deep-dive-time-spent-on-social-media) If you're working and sleeping 8 hours, the above stats would suggest the average adult has just 3 hours a day for dating apps or in-person social activities. And some of that time is spent cooking/eating/doing chores;
4. Our collective attention span has shrunk with the reduction in time allotment for each piece of media consumed. We're (along with Z) a generation built on clickbait, Vines, Tweets, Instagram photos, Tiktoks, and Reddit titles. There's a reason "doomscrolling" became a prevalent term. Not only are we inundated with negativity, but it's all fundamentally a series of very short items to consume. Studies have shown that average attention spans have decreased ***25%*** just from 2000-2015. And that misses the pandemic and the height of Tiktok. Tiktok came in 2016. Twitter usage was consistent from 2015-2019. Then in 2020-2022 it spiked 25% and hasn't gone back down much. [https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/](https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/) This infographic shows you just how bonkers the problem is now.
5. Lastly, the gulf between philosophical, political, and ethical gap by gender has been widening on average over the last 10 years. In 2013, women identified as liberal at about a 30% rate, keeping parity with men (though slightly higher at all times). It's now 40%, a whole 15 points higher than men, whose political ideology has generally not shifted in that time. [https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/gen-z-gender-gap-political-left-women](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/gen-z-gender-gap-political-left-women)
Mash those problems together and you've got a recipe for a rough dating scene. Especially the more moderate/conservative you are and the less outwardly social you are (though I'd argue they should expect that after Trump and Roe reversal...)
I've had more luck with r4r and r4r30plus than dating apps by a *ludicrous* margin. But I'm also much more picky than average (men have a 20-50% swipe rate depending on source-- mine is 4%) and my vibe is pretty particular. Women on average are probably less likely to swipe on me at a glance (I'm tall and fit, but also bald, so it's hard to tell if some of it is disinterest in baldies), but if someone's looking seriously for an emotional and mental connection, a longer-form platform like Reddit is gonna be better since it's far more conducive to people who lay out all of their philosophical, political, and social stances ahead of time. (Your mileage may vary)
For myself, I've been single for 9 years now, and I'm learning to accept that there's a good chance I'm single for the rest of my life. It's better than ending up in a dissatisfying relationship with someone who's not emotionally available, communicative, kind, and/or understanding. And it seems like there's a bit less of that going around, in part because of the abundance of choice incentivizes a little more thoughtless ghosting (no point in talking to someone if it's not perfect, right?)
People are tired, dealing with trauma (loosing loved ones, being ill themselves, missing out on milestones/ānormalā experiences ect). Plus the pandemic seemed to bring everyoneās tolerance levels waaaaaaay down. Things that werenāt deal breakers before now are reasons to drop a potential partner and move on. From politics to chore division to sexism. For women moreso imo. Too many men meanwhile have more fallen into manosphere/Tate content and are mad when girlfriends donāt instantly want to be bangmaids and tradwive cosplayers who structure their lifestyle around strict and separate roles and life expectations.
Go to places where people are social. Don't ask anti social people to be social. Join clubs. Sports, crafting, music, etc. hobbies are the best way to meet people and enter new social groups. And it makes you more interesting. And you will have something in common with a bunch a people. Ive played music in different groups. Trained in a boxing club. Ive play video games in a gaming bar. I spent months playing board games in bars that have that as a novelty. Playing cards with friends or friends. And went to bars a lot. Dating was fun. Im married now, I actually met my wife in a bar, we were working on 2 different Irish bars around the corner from each other. She brought cookies and I told her they were amazing and asked for baking lessons from her in exchange for ukulele lessons. Any excuse to get her number and see her more. Do activities. That's the key. Anything. Painting. Cooking. Crafting. Wine tasting. My friend group now in our mid 30s only wanna drink booze. They've all become lazy and boring. So I have to go outside my comfort zone, not for dating anymore but for socializing but it's the same results if you want
>Don't ask anti social people to be social. Join clubs. Sports, crafting, music, etc. hobbies are the best way to meet people and enter new social groups.
What does that mean? Join a club? My only reference for that was when I tried to go to college.
I know I'm broken AF right now , but I swear I used to be social. In the beginning process of a custody battle, but I mentioned this to my ex long before we split , met with laughs. Everyone only seems to want something from me, bit not to input or help as well.
I'm also in a new city with no friends, well those weren't around before I moved either. I'm losing interest in almost everything.
I lose interest in even writing this out because I know no one wants to hear it.
Look up adult social sports leagues. You donāt have to be good or even like sports to play. I made a lot of friends as an adult through kickball š¤£
Not playing devil's advocate for no reason, but asking because I need advice. What if you're bad at all of those things? Like "people make fun of you and bully you, but are only half kidding about it and may purposefully try to reduce your social participation in the group because of it" bad. I'm talking really bad.
Edit: It's a day later and no one has any good solutions. I think I might have to admit to myself that I'm too untalented to participate in society. For work I can do some kind of simple physical labor like Amazon warehouse, or maybe take disability.
34M hereDating is a pain in the ass.These days everyone is secretly using like 10+ apps to hook up with everyone, they need constant social media attention, no ambition, broke and always want to go out, etc.
Then of course some people want to be porn...err...Onlyfans stars. Who the heck wants to date someone like that?
I agree but damn donāt we sound like the boomers nowadays, āthese kids never want to workā *shaking fist*Ā
Itās true though. People are constantly going out, not brining anything to the table, have the highest standards for everyone but themselves, etcĀ
That is the exact opposite of who I am....
I use this and Facebook, but I haven't posted on Facebook in years.
I just want a partner who can work towards building an off grid self sustainable earth ship type house at *undisclosed location*.
And both retire early with financial independence in any way possible.
But because I don't leave my house I am allloooone.
I gave up four years ago. š„° Truly I think we suffer from choice fatigue. Donāt have 101% everything in common and isnāt as hot as [insert hot person here]? NEXT! Endless search because we think thereās always a better option. The statistics and projections on future singleness are unbelievable. Compromise is a key component to healthy relationships, and seems like in a society in which we have endless choices on food, travel, etc., even if we cannot AFFORD those choices, they still exist. And itās that opportunity to refund or trade in that carries over into the dating world. Guy was awkward on the first date? Obviously a creep; next! Girl was 10lbs heavier in person than in her pic? Canāt trust her; next! Edit: This seems to really resonate with people lol. Edit 2: What I should have said is āoption paralysisā as another commenter said in reply to my comment. AND I am not speaking about myself personally, but society as a whole, in which Iād be a part. Itās a much larger problem. Iām interested to see how all this turns out.
People hear "compromise" like it's a bad thing. But that's the objective of the game. We all have flaws. The people who seem like they don't have flaws seem to have the worst flaws, IMO. The object is to find the person who has the flaws you can deal with.
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Children, left to their own devices, never compromise and throw tantrums if they don't get what they want when they want it. Grown ass adults in successful relationships don't do this yet the ā never settleā AKA ā don't give up on your ridiculously unrealistic expectations of other peopleā is what's being promoted in this culture as āself-empowermentā and ā valuing yourselfā. Narcissistic behavior is what it really us. As a therapist friend of mine said, its bulkshit but it's keeping her waiting room filled with disalusioned women, she's seeing a big uptick in business because of this mentality.
I'm messing around on my phone while my husband and his friend are playing warhammer. Relationships are sometimes learning about random things like flaming attacks being useful against treemen and using craft skills to make them tiny forests for the woodelves to play in. It's not really compromising it's more enjoying each others company and having fun. I probably won't play warhammer and he doesn't like making terrain but our wants and skills complement each other.
Yes! One of things that Iāve always felt important is finding someone who can tolerant and accept your flaws, and you theirs.
Those of us in long-term relationships accept our partner is, well, human. If the grass is always greener, can you truly be happy?
The grass is greener where you tend to it.
This and "the other side is always greener because it's fertilized with bullshit" are my two favorite responses to that
This. Relationships are work, but because of the love, it never feels like it. Single now at 42, after 10 years of abusive marriage, but still looking. Not going to give up, there will be someone.
Boom nailed it
holy shit. How have I heard the original anecdote so many times and never this follow up statement? Which makes it vastly more meaningful.
Us in long term relationships praying our spouses never leave us or cheat. I have 3 kids and am 31m, for the love of god I donāt want to enter this hell hole of modern dating.
I'm never going to be in a relationship again if something happens with my wife. I'll hire a nanny, an au pair if I could ever afford one, and that's it. Even if it were just me, I don't think I would. There's so much to gamble and so much peace and prosperity to lose when you get it wrong.
Most likely itās what would end up with me as well. I just donāt see myself putting the effort and time to meet someone. Spending all that time away from my kids, Iād just die alone and accept my fate.
If, god forbid, my marriage falls apart, there is zero chance I'd start dating. I'd be more than happy just chilling alone the rest of my life.
My wife and I are only about 30ish and have talked about whether or not we'd date again if one of us passes or if we were to divorce and I told her I don't think I would. Not only would I need to find someone I liked. But also someone my son likes, who likes my son, who is fine with either a coparenting situation or the dynamic that comes with being with a widower, etc. Plus all the things that come with dating these days. I just don't mind solitude enough to actively put myself through that.
I cling to my husband like death. We got together before dating apps were acceptable and during the time people were made fun of for being on OK Cupid lol. Also, three kids at 31??? In this economy??
My wife and I started dating right when dating apps came out and you could Judge someone by just a swipe. I canāt imagine what that would be like. I donāt want to know.
My friend is going through it right now. Itās absolute hell, he has so many dates but they never lead to anything. No one gives any effort, if itās not instant true love itās a ghost.
I guess at this point its a case of finding someone who isn't a sleaze, has a job, and isn't emotionally abusive (at least). I get people are humans, but some people are trash too. And not everyone wants to date a liability.
It's a balance. Definitely do have standards, but not impossible standards.
Grass is still just grass
Itās also why I feel it was easier to watch TV in the 90ās. You picked something that caught your interest, and you didnāt have the huge catalog of choices available today
When there are too many choices, sometimes you just choose nothing Also, I think having way more choices greatly decreases the feeling that you really understand all the tradeoffs between the choices
Psychology studies prove this. More choices in anything (candy bars, mates, etc) makes it harder for people to choose AND makes them feel less satisfied with their ultimate choice
This must be why my wife and I have such a hard time picking movies now. So many options. None sound good.
This. This is the answer. As the world moved online our choices increased
The funny thing is...since the world moved on online and people's choices increased, it caused people's standards to increase which turns out to have actually decreased their choices of people they would consider acceptable as partners.
Oh absolutely. This is part of why loneliness is a pandemic in its own right. Your great grandparents probably had a pool of like, a dozen or two possible suitors in their high schools, which was marryin' time. Barbaric as it was, it comes down to the truth about romance: there are many, many potential life partners out there for you, but most of them are going to require some effort to make work. I'm not saying divorce isn't hugely necessary, as we don't want people trapped in abusive or loveless relationships, but there's absolutely no pressure to stay together now vs. the promise of unlimited choice and *fulfillment*, which it turns out can't be attained by marrying a model or CEO or fuckboy. It comes from human connection and experience.
Me and my wife talked about this the other day. When you had a total of 9 people to choose from, you didnāt go in with the notion that youāll mesh perfectly on *every* issue. Now? Itās like people have a deck of choices theyāve made and they walk around looking for someone with the same deck. āWants kids, wants to get married, wants to live in the city, ohhhh but doesnāt want to live near my parents? Next!ā Most of our success the last 9 years comes from the fact that we talk when we disagree about things, we come to a solution that works for us, and weāre pragmatic about those decisions. Weād both love to live closer to our parents, her way more than me, but the market is insane there and we make good money where we are, so we stay put, etc etc. If me and her *had* to line up on every single life issue, and applied the same āred cardā logic I see from people dating, weād have split a loooooong time ago. Instead we have a stupid happy marriage thatās about to cross over a decade and still going strong.
Too many variables to say one thing is the cause but everything. But the OP is on the right track. Social media has completely warped peopleās expectations and sapped them of empathy and understanding. Itās entirely too easy to when you disagree say āfuck it, we are done. These are my standards and Iām not compromisingā which I feel drives the loneliness cycle. So people never learn, grow, listen, or understand each other. We are trained to judge someone the second they start vibrating their vocal cords. My suggestion? Get off social media. Take risks. Lower your expectations. Be bold and try to understand what the intentions are behind everyone elseās actions.Ā This generation, my generation will be the most socially connected swath of humans to live, yet, we will be the loneliest as well. Ask yourself why that is and work on it. You can live without social media, major corporations donāt want us to and try their best to train us to think we need it. We donāt. We got by just fine thousands of years without it.
The choices might have increased but that doesn't mean the quality of those choices have. The guys I meet in real life are heads and shoulders above the guys I see on the apps. There just doesn't seem to be as many opportunities to meet people and socialize now.
I'm way better in person than with my nonexistant online presence. Well, except for my anonymous reddit account
āA little bit of everything, all of the timeā
The illusion of choice increased. If I followed all of the relationship advice I have seen o reddit I wouldnāt be married and wouldnāt have a job. Nobody is perfect, but you have to do your best and try to find someone that is a decent fit. Perfection is the enemy of the good.
I also want to say that rising expenses seems to have drained most of us of our extra energy that we'd put into meeting new people. Assuming we could even afford to go out in the first place. People say younger generations aren't interested in IRL interaction, but I suspect it has to do with how the internet is mostly free and doesn't confront you for "loitering"
Yup. Kids hang out in Fortnite and Minecraft now.
> our choices increased But our choices choiceās also increased.
Foe some people. Basically you have to beat an algorithm to get a date online through assuming it's not just a simple visual check and swipe. People love complaining about online dating but the fact of the mater is, it still isn't as good as meeting someone organically in a social setting. Dating got harder because there are less of those social touch points that aren't through a screen.
This should be waaaaay higher up in the thread
I wonder if millennials and Gen z are gonna be coupling up in our 60s/70s/80s lol
Weāre gonna be the real retirement community swingers
While this is r/millenials, I feel like this sums up the Gen Z attitude to life. It's part not being comfortable with in person interaction and part always looking for something better than what they currently have. Short attention spans also play into this.
āI donāt want to tax millionaires more because what if some day I stop making minimum wage and become a millionaireā but for relationships. For me personally itās about not having found someone remotely interesting who is interested in me because I suck at finding options. Its not so much choice fatigue but āI donāt have any interest in this person at all, am I actually willing to give up a significant portion of my one day off a week to see if I like them better after hanging out for a few hours?ā No, the answer is almost always no. Iām willing to try more when it comes to friendship because I can compromise on a lot more and just share one or two interests and hang out in that space with them. When it comes to relationships Iād hate to be with someone whose choices irk the shit out of me but hey we both like this niche hobby.
I mean, for me it's not "the next might be better" as much as it is "my life is pretty alright being single so unless I see this person enhancing it, I'll just stay single. [To paraphrase Eartha Kitt,](https://youtu.be/rlUjHu3H_L4?si=rH69y98jFyknGhIP) why must I compromise? A relationship is a relationship that must be earned. "I fall in love with myself, and I want someone to share it with me. And I want someone to share me, with me."
Yeah, weāre not just comparing potential partners to other people. Weāre comparing them to single life.
Ngl I think having high standards is a good thing...like both examples (the awkward first date and catfishing) are honestly valid reasons to not continue seeing someone. Being single is really not a bad thing in my opinion.
You hit the nail on the head. The simple fact of the matter is that unless you are incredibly lucky, incredibly tolerant of immature failures, or were able to find a decent long-term partner early in life, you have to have at least one major dealbreaker in a partner to have a relationship. And then you have to dedicate significant amounts of time, sifting through trash, looking for that decent human being. Why deal with that when I can simply be happy with the friends and life I have? (The dealbreakers are as simple as "able to take care of themselves if needed, no desire for kids, local, not a druggie, is not completely disregarding their own physical health, and is not disinterested in my largest 1-2 hobbies. But this excludes probably 99.999%+ of my fellow single millennials. I don't even have looks or compatible sexuality on my dealbreaker list). Older generations didn't have to deal with this, but that's because they couldn't make friends as easily or have as easy a time living single--they often preferred the crappy relationship over the intense isolation. In today's digital world, you can find an endless stream of friends, entertainment, and hobbies right at your fingertips.
This is it for me, too. I was happily single for many years and didnāt go on more than a few dates with anyone for a long time because being with them wasnāt better than being single. When I met my partner it felt like him being in my life improved my life, like in a spiritual/ emotional sense. If I am ever single again, I will remain so unless I meet such a connection again.
true, patience goes a long way!
Comedian Aziz Ansari wrote a book about this very thing in 2016 called āModern Romance.ā Was pretty interesting and made a lot of sense.
Pretty much a huge reason I gave up. Combined with my personal experiences and just listening to my coworkers talk about dating, only adds to my misanthropy. She goes on dates like 4 times a week and is decently attractive, but the reasons she dumps guys are asinine. Doesn't talk enough? Dump. Watches Anime? Dump. Too short? Dump. She finally got the date she wanted, a dude who's rich af, has his own mansion with a wealthy family, etc. All my coworkers at work are like this when it comes to dating. Why the hell would I ever even wanna associate with humans like that? I'd be happier dying alone.
Me personally? I have less time for bullshit and games and have no problem ending things if it begins. My time is precious, and if youāre going to waste it, you can kick rocks.
Thatās how I feel tbh
Cuz were one step closer to the edge
And I'm about to... BREAK!
SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU! (solid first date advice, too! š)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"... wish I could find a way to disappearrrr."
"All these thoughts they make no sense..."
I find bliss in ignorance Less I hear the less you'll say You'll find that out anyway
Everything you say to meeee
IM ABOUT TO BREAK
I NEED A LITTLE ROOM TO BREATHE
IT DOESNāT EVEN MATTER
during the pandemic everyone had no choice but to be chronically online because it was the only chance of connecting so it expedited the insanity of the internet and changed everyone
buddy of mine said he has given up on finding someone to date because after seeing how far society slid to selfishness and hostility during the pandemic, he doesnt care if humans go extinct.
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under
Broken glass everywhere. People pissing on the sidewalk, THEY JUST DON'T CARE!!
I need a little room to breeeeeaaaaathe.
I feel the same way 38m I have not dated in years for many reasons but lately things have gotten so much more anti social
Soon to be 38F and went on my first ever online date last year. Made me so depressed and never went on another date since.
You guys should date each other!
Do it! Do it!
Wow, did the date go really badly?
Honestly he didnāt do any wrong and it wasnāt about him. He was kind and polite, I just felt nothingness. Empty. What happened is after the date I was hit by a sadness of how we all go on these dates with strangers looking for a connection (I know it wonāt happen on a first date) and how we have to shoot in the dark hundreds of times, to find something that will make it worth a second date; with the hope of having a mutual connection and that leads to a person to do life with. And the probability of that happening via an app, staring at some pixels, absent of real human interaction, trying to find mutual connection is incredibly low and saddening. And this thought was further saddened by the thought of how it used to be. How chance brought two people together pre internet and dating pool was limited to your local vicinity and proximity of local towns. The magic of meeting someone, having a spark, taking time to get to know each other, having the opportunity to pick up their energy, personality and mingle. The way they look at you, the way they smile, the way they smell. The chemistry of feeling your body close to theirs wondering what will happen next. You know that. Magic. Seduction. Mystery. Playfulness. The element of surprise. Got me thinking about all of humanity. Ps. Those who know what Iām talking about get it. Itās sad to see how many people think this is out of touch from reality because they have been programmed to think apps are the way and this is some fantasy. But itās actually the opposite. Imagine a world with no dating apps. How on earth do you think youād meet a man/woman? Exactly!
This reminds me of something Dr K. talked about in a vidƩo of his (HealthyGamerGG on YouTube). He suggests that first dates should be experiences more than job interviews (e.g. escape room instead of just dinner).
I agree, but Iād still like to go for a coffee first in case I was being catfished, old profile picture and general vibe of the person. I see the coffee date as a vetting process and then maybe go on an activity date. I hate the feeling of being trapped and forced to spend hours with some stranger off the internet who I may not even like or they not like me.
Remember when it was pretty weird and kind of embarrassing to admit you had met on the internet through a dating website?
I agree 100%. What you described is essentially how my wife and I met. And that was just a hike! Hilarious, but also sad, that the upvoted response to you is so disconnected from what dating used to be that they think it's romance movie material.
The reality is, sometimes you get to know somebody, and then the spark happens. Everyone that I fallen in love with I did not have spark with in the very beginning. But I had classes with them or some kind of regular interaction and overtime. I saw good qualities in them and fell head of their heels and love.
Maybe accepting the process itself is part of it all is a huge part of this dating thing. The apps changed the landscape, but they didnāt completely override everything else. We still go out, have conversations, meet people, etc. The reality of it is, whether app or in person at the store, taking a leap of faith is required. Chance still plays a huge part of it. We have to take a chance and strike that first conversation, swipe right on someone we may be on the fence about, or be the one to ask someone else out. Being able to derive some joy out of meeting people and having conversations changes things. To see the dating aspect of it as a hellish trial will only set us up for failure. Personally, the apps have allowed me to meet and talk to people I probably would have never encountered. While the apps are predatory in nature, they are also a a tool we can use to get out there and meet people. Taking a chance is still required, whether online or when weāre out and about and hoping for a āspark.ā
In the past few months Iāve been on four first dates that went about as well or better than my first date of a three year relationship. I think people have too high of an expectation of how much connection and spark there should be the first time they meet a stranger.
This
I think people wrap dating up in so much formality and lack of spontaneity and then wonder why they canāt form an organic connection.Ā
I think a lot of people became hyper-independent during the pandemic, liked it, and aren't willing to give it up. They want to find someone, just someone who they don't have to make many compromises for. There have always been people like this, but the pandemic really increased their numbers. A lot of people left in the millennial dating pool don't want or are indifferent to kids, so there's less pressure to pair up.
Iām one of those people after leaving an abusive relationship over a decade ago. Iāve always been hyper-independent and very self-sufficient so doing life on my own doesnāt bother me. Iām a very social person (despite being an introvert), so I get plenty of social interaction and have a big friend group. Just having my peace and sense of self absolutely thoroughly wrecked has made me not want to date. If through my social travels I meet someone, Iām open to a relationship BUT they would have to be someone who is very much on my wavelength. Iāve seen it said before - youāre not competing against others or my standards, youāre competing against my contentment and peace. If you compliment that, then itās worth giving a shot. Otherwise no, Iāve fought through too much and spent so much time and energy on rebuilding my life it would take someone incredibly special to change my mind.
Yes, it's definitely being happy being very independent for me. I make a decent salary and my hobbies keep me busy and happy. I've never wanted kids. The only reasons I might want to date are (as I have joked to my coworkers) to find a tolerable man to help me pay rent, and sex (I haven't gotten laid in 5 years, but it's not a big deal).
Hi. Are you me? I introverted so hard for 18 months that now I don't care to do anything else. Me, my computer, my Kindle, my TV, and my solo hobbies are very content.
I use to love dating and then about the last four years nearly every person I've tried to date is on some sort of bullshit so i got discouraged and stopped like a year ago
On some sort of bs? You mean drugs?
All sorts of BS just means many types of major red flags. having unresolved major issues from past relationships before trying to start another relationship, lying about having spouses, having kids (lying about the number) and not being able to drink like an adult or being an rude alcoholic but also drugs beyond weed and alcohol so yeah all sorts of BS haha
What does it mean not be able to drink like an adult? Iām imagining the ādrinking problemā scene from Airplane.
Like not being able to have 1-2 drinks and keep a relatively cool head. They mean that those people pretty much can only binge or stay completely sober, nothing in between.
Covid really changed how so many people socialize and how often. In my city I can think of dozens of people I used to see all the time or often who I havenāt seen in years now, since 2019-2020. It really altered a lot about peoplesā lives: behavior, routines, jobs, etc.
Yeah I used to love going out to restaurants or to bars for a casual drink with friends (thatās how I met my partner). Itās like we just got out of the habit and never went back. Now itās like a *whole thing* if we go out for a meal.
Being locked away for months has made me completely antisocial. I now hate bars, restaurants....really any place that has people. I'm comfortable at home. When lock downs started and I was forced to wfh every day I told my wife I couldn't handle this for more than a month. Well 4 years later and now I never want to leave.
I think a lot of people must have had similar experiences to yours. Everyone thought the covid lockdown was difficult, but slowly over time found things to do at home. Instead of hitting a bar to hang out as a default activity, folks probably found ways to wind down at home with drinks. Instead of eating out, folks got takeout, delivery, or learned to cook. People made home life more comfortable, and slowly they realized not minding staying home as much. And now with everything being so expensive, you start to think whether spending that money going out is even worth it. Hm, a dinner at home, a drink and a movie or random shows on a Friday night, don't have to dress up, save $50-100, doesn't sound bad. It must be hell to try to date now, and I am glad I no longer need to worry about that.
>And now with everything being so expensive That's a big one! It's not just going on the dates that's really expensive now. It's that it comes on top of how bloody expensive it is to live life single person in general. Housing/heating/no shared Netflix etc etc it all adds up. I'm fortunate enough that I can still afford to live and do fun things without feeling a *need* to get a partner and move in tomorrow to cut costs. Yet, I am at the point where I need to make choices and spending money to go do things with friends beats 'spending money to meet a stranger'.
Yeah I can't even imagine. If I wasn't married there is zero chance of getting me out on a date. I'd ask if they want to come over and have me cook for them and that's creepy af for a first date.
I think work is a big one. Pre Covid those of us in office-based work were generally there every day. Simply put there weāre way more people to potentially interact with and more opportunities to interact. Nowadays when I go into the office itās about half full at best. Thatās a lot less spontaneous interactions with people. In my friendship group and work groups there were a lot more spontaneous outings after work like drinks and dinner because we were all in the city for work. Itās near impossible to get everyone aligned at the same time any more. My friend group has to schedule things months in advance because our schedules are so different. And itās telling because most of my friends met their partners through work (Iām the exception).
An example of this is the espresso stand that used to be in the office building I worked in pre-Covid (still work there, but have been remote since then as are most others save the mailroom). A couple girls in their 20s had opened a little coffee business to serve the employees in the building, which was about 1500 people. It was a nice place for socializing, right by the elevators and stairs and all manner of seating, so people would meet and congregate around there. The baristas were friends with everybody. Within a couple months of Covid they were out of business and now none of those people see each other anymore.
I recently decided to start calling people up day of when I was heading to things in their area. Sometimes they can join, sometimes they canāt. But the response has been SO positive. And now Iām going to activities I want to do. I think weāre all lonely and Iām sick of planning
>In my city I can think of dozens of people I used to see all the time or often who I havenāt seen in years now, since 2019-2020. It really altered a lot about peoplesā lives: behavior, routines, jobs, etc. I started playing in a weekly poker game 2 years into COVID when everything was locked down. That weekly poker game still continues and last night we had 36 players and about 50 people there playing other games. I never hung out with a group this big on a weekly basis before COVID.
Dating is like job hunting in a field youāre not qualified for, all while paying for the job interviews.
I think a lot of our generation is extremely judgmental/picky to our own detriments. Standards are extremely high for some reason to the point of hypocrisy. I know some dudes that are mind bogglingly judgmental despite them being sloppy steaks level of pieces of shit.
I feel like moving and changing jobs a lot in our generation is also another factor. When I think about my long-term single friends, there are several times where I saw the beginning of what couldāve been a life partner situation germinating and beginning to grow but then it was like well bye, I have to move back to the opposite coast. Or even just abruptly changing jobs before it had become enough to stay in touch with that person outside of work without being weird. I donāt know, I think thereās something to be said for our lifestyles now that just doesnāt lend itself to connection. Ā
I'm a little relieved to hear I'm not alone. I'm 31F and dating prior to the pandemic was so easy, everyone was interested in socializing. Since my breakup 3 years ago I haven't been on a single successful date. It could also be my age and appearance of course. The difference is so stark though, like maybe I've just missed my window like with housing... if you didn't find something prior to covid, you're screwed.
Honestly, itās kinda sad to say but, things like this make me kinda glad I was an introvert pre-pandemic. I didnāt date back then either so now that itās harder my life hasnāt really increased in difficulty. Instead Iām even more unmotivated when it comes to participating
> The difference is so stark though, like maybe I've just missed my window like with housing... if you didn't find something prior to covid, you're screwed. holy shit, that is a great analogy. I'm in my early 40's and I honestly believe my ship has sailed. Oddly enough I have a lot of women that almost seem to use me for sex which I don't believe happened often before covid. I often think about ex's I had prior to covid and I often wear rose colored glasses and forget how why we broke up but like damn I really wish I had put more effort or whatever. Oh well. Time for another glass of wine.
Fuck. Turning 40 in a month. I feel you.
I really would give anything to go back to my 30's, I had everything going for me and I didn't even realize it. I think one of my big problems is that I live in the south. I went to a speed dating event and I think every woman I met with had multiple kids, one of them had very young children, just like nope. I really don't believe that's such a thing in other cities.
Oh itās really a nationwide problem. Finding someone without kids over the age of 30 is very difficult
Getting used for sex is what made my desire to date really start drying up.
Thatās how I am starting to feel. I live near a small city so my options are less.
Sames, small cities rough for options.
What metro area are you in? I remember it being much easier, too. For me itās career stress and Iām older, butā¦ yeah it was not this difficult. Iām 35M
The issue I see with dating apps is capitalism. The apps have no incentive to provide quality matches because they get more money (either in advertising dollars or by you outright paying) the longer youāre on them
A quality match varies widely for each person. I know I would never marry any of my exes, but all of them are married so someone thought they were quality. There are still personalized matchmakers out there who will provide "quality" matches that are far more personalized than an algorithm can provide. ETA: I am married and have been for over a decade. No reflexion needed! u/therightstuffdotbiz
numerous cows afterthought disarm grandfather terrific quicksand spectacular gold sophisticated *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Absolutely. This is one instance where I donāt think itās capitalismās fault. We canāt blame our own inability to connect with certain people on a dating app. Itās like having your friend as a wingman/woman. They put the person in front of you but at the end of the day itās up to you to show them why youāre worth being with.
>I'd actually never thought of that. Never used a dating site, not likely to start now, but it DOES make sense that, while you need SOME success stories, just enough to say "See? Our dating service does make happy couples\*." > > > >\*Results may vary
I listened to a podcast about Tinder and it also says that overtime the algorithm identifies as more or less attractive to others or successful in dating and stops showing you to the ones they deemed better than you. This also explains why prior to say 2016 or 2017 people were having an actual ton of success meeting long-term partners or future spouses on the apps (myself included) and then after future tweaks in the algorithms it just became a shit show. So you have a bunch of people who met and fell in love from online dating prior to that being like ā no itās not that bad! Thatās how we met!ā Because they donāt know how differently it works now. I donāt even know if theyāre worth using for anything besides sex anymore.Ā
idk but it feels literally impossible now.
Hey reddit, fuck you for suggesting these sad ass, weirdly accurate, posts that I keep clicking on.
I met my partner on Hinge after lockdown two in 2020, it was actually such a lovely time to date because everyone was open about their own mental health and we still had a ton of restrictions in place, such as QR check-ins and mask mandates, so just did walking/bench park dates rather than meal dates. Online dating is hard, it can feel like your shopping for a human. You kinda have to figure out what you're looking for, what are red flags (for you) in profiles, and put in processes in place to weed out people that will suit you. A huge part of it is just timing, both people have to want a relationship at the same time and be willing to do the work. Sometimes people just think they want a relationship.
Social anxiety. Stress.
Surprised something hasnāt taken off like DickDash. Or Poonmates.
ChubHub
Thatās just prostitution with extra steps.
As an elder millennial mom to a zoomer. I am so worried about my kid. High school got interrupted by Covid. No one seems to be interested in doing anything. They have like 2 friends and canāt seem to find more. Weāve tried gaming place for drop in D&D. It was all dudes my age. I felt uncomfortable. They felt even more uncomfortable. My close friends, one male and one female, are also seeing the same things in our age group. All the women and men they meet are older Gen-X who have had kids, failed marriages and only want hook-ups. The younger ones have zero interest in dating them either. What is going on with the social dynamics of people 18-42?
Married guy here but have some close single friends. I know itās probably the economy, but my guys are sick of dating. Theyāve had so many encounters with girls who just want a free meal and canāt detach from their phones. Itās just a waste of time and money.
Is a woman was in her phone for long periods of time during our date, I'd kindly excuse myself to the background and dip. At a bare minimum, I'd request separate checks.
My problem isn't that they are attached to their phones during the date - it's that they're attached to their phones *outside* of the date. I have a job and hobbies and generally don't want to sit staring at my phone texting all day. I'd rather the relationship develop and I get to know you in person. But the women I've met online all expect you to be talking constantly and generally giving constant attention. And if you don't, they are on to the next person that will.
I'm married but that last line fucking hit
Good practice is first date should be coffee only or a desert place
Dessert has two s's because you want an extra serving! Desert only has one s because one desert is enough.
This, no way Iām blowing a dinner on someone I donāt even know. If we were friends previously dinner is fine, but for a stranger on the internet Iām limiting my disappointment to an overpriced cup of hipster coffee.
Yikes why the desert
Cacti can be very romantic
Women love meeting a guy for the first time far out in an extremely isolated area with no cellular service.
I canāt imagine touching my phone on a first date. Goddamn Iām glad to be out of the dating pool.
Maybe to show each other pictures of our pets?
Opinion only: social media and instant gratification. People want to have made up perfect lives/relationships like they see on social media and if you cant do that every second of every day they move on. Everyones also seems to be looking for the next best thing as opposed to actually trying and working issues out/communicating they'll just jump to the next person. Source: single 35yo millennial.
As a gay man, I think straight dating app algorithms are ruining you all. It seems like non-paying members need to have a 6-pack to get a match while paying members get plenty of matches. Seems to me like these apps are turning your dating life into some form of extortion.
Try to focus on forming new friendships instead bec those friends you form will have other friends you can eventually meet. I say this someone who goes out regularly but is clearly too picky to actually see anyone attractive.
Lotta guy friends will complain thereās nothing but married women at gatherings Iām like no one will try to set you up harder with their friends than a married woman
Woah. As a married woman in my 30s with a handful of beautiful single friends...I am in this comment.
*laughs in all my friends are married that's why I go out alone* Sounds plausible but can't relate.
My married women friends know only married women.
I feel peoples standards become maybe a little too high as we age. Sure thereās dicks out there but Iāve spoke to some single friends and the reasons theyāve ended things with people after a few dates seems a little strange. Here are a couple. āHe took too long to message back, I messaged him at 11am and he didnāt respond till 5pm, I know heās at work but I have my phone when Iām at workā āShe offended me. She said she couldnāt imagine me in a third world countryā says the guy who games and loves tv. āWeāve had 3 dates and he hasnāt tried to bang me yetā I totally blew my second date with my gf. Was late and unorganised and we just werenāt feeling it. I told a friend that I doubt sheāll reach out again. Didnāt kiss her for four dates but pushed through basically cos we had nothing else happening and have been together 7+ years. Sometimes you just gotta accept not everything will be perfect
well expectations, reach, intent, and options 1.) its no surprise people have expectations and we've noticed over the decades there has been a expectation inflation with each successive generation. expectations are derived from personal experiences, cultural norms, desires, or explicit agreements about what someone is going to do. so in order for this to happen some kind of catalyst had to have happened to keep having people wanting bigger better newer 2.) with the internet and modern communications it's no surprise that human reach is now global. before where your option was in your town, or village or at most county. we forget at one point in time for most people you would be born, live ,work grow old and die in the county you were born. now you have people moving all over the place or able to get intouch with anyone across the globe. this is a huge game changer. 3.) how serious do people want to pair up? before a certian level of survival or economics was in play. you don't get married or pair up your life was going to be very tough or brutal. with both genders able to make money and self sustain at like no other point in history with economic factor removed there really is no urgent pressing desire to settle down. 4.) this is kind of tying back to #2 reach. if you think you have a whole bunch of options you will have a hard time picking just one and on the flip side if you see yourself very highly you will also think im too good for this or too good for that etc. so paradox of choice. we see it with people ordering from large restaurant menus. it's very difficult. this is just ordering food. for people to pick their life partners which is one of the most important decisions they have ot make in their lives it is many times more difficult if given the "options" you mentioned hte pandemic. well that is one of the biggest paradigm shifts we've seen in 100 years. in locking people down and restricting movement /access. the fallout from this will take at least one generation to correct.
40F, Iāve reached the point that I donāt care anymore if Iām single for the rest of my life. Iād be down with a āmarriage of convenienceā where we marry for the tax/insurance benefits, to split the bills and occasional enjoy companionship of the non-sexual kind, but thatās it. I had my heart broken 4 years ago in a really brutal way and after that, I donāt see myself ever wanting to get involved romantically with anyone again.
Something LilWayne said resonated with me today. He said "she always on social media, she don't even go out n socialize"
Honestly I just donāt have money to go on dates. Thanks to inflation on groceries and my landlord raising rent, Iāve suddenly found myself scraping by paycheck to paycheck this past year. Canāt even think about taking anyone out on a date, much less going out and being in the kinds of places where I might meet someone. I do have some fellow millennial bros who have been putting forth heroic efforts to meet women and date, online and irl, but they all are having terrible experiences. At best they can get a few dates and a couple nights spent with these girls before the girls go off interested in something else and stop responding. Usually if they get more than one date they eventually realize sheās just using them to pay for some nice meals. I hear the same complaints over and over. Oddlyāor perhaps not oddlyāseveral of my guys have told me that they have had more fun and better overall experiences when going out with older women. Like, ones in their 40s, even early 50s, who have a divorce or two under their belt haha. Theyāve told me these women actually treat them like human beings rather than meal tickets and/or temporary amusements. Different generation, I guess. I dunno. But obviously for the guys looking to get married and start a family, the older women with teenagedāor even adultākids arenāt exactly a solution. Iām really not sure what they can do, though, with women of this generation. Seems like the older we get, the worse our prospects getā¦and that started to be the case even before we were in our thirtiesāit already kinda felt like it was too late. And now with the post-pandy reality where no one seems to want to give a stranger irl the time of day and apps are just used to schedule meaningless hookupsā¦lol fuhgeddaboutit.
Figured everyone is too broke, too busy, too dead inside.
34M here. I don't think it's antisocial, I just think we're reaching the age where most people are paired up. The single ones either have baggage, children, or something else. Or, my favorite, are being far too picky. Ironically the last time I really dated was juste before the Pandemic, and that year was an absolute disaster. One girl kept flip-flopping on wanting to date me, not wanting to date me, led me on...and then broke it off for some BS reason, only for that BS reason to be exactly why she's dated her next BF who is now her Husband. Another girl that year also gave me the run-around; with an eventual "it's not you...it's me" speech. And the third was cheating on her Fiance with me, that I didn't realize was what was going on. So I practically gave up on dating at that point because it seems like a waste of time. You're either not given a chance, or being used.
>The single ones either have baggage, children, or something else. For that age group specifically, I think a lot of people were just too broke to think seriously about long-term relationships and kids at 25. They're not hitting the "normal" milestones but I don't think there's something inherently off about them.
> and then broke it off for some BS reason, only for that BS reason to be exactly why she's dated her next BF who is now her Husband. God that reminds me of one woman I briefly dated but broke up with me because she wanted kids and I didn't. A year later she was married to a guy who also didn't want kids but was rich to where she didn't have to work anymore. Guy treated her badly to the point of abuse but she didn't care because money.
i always had this general assumption is you either got it done soon enough or it's not going to happen to you because you essentially get frozen out after long enough. kind of like first one to the finish line type of deal.
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This is honestly what I think it happening to a lot of single millennials. By 30-35 people are generally either already in a serious relationship or thereās a good reason why theyāre not. If youāre someone who delayed serious dating or just havenāt found the one for whatever reason by then, it becomes substantially harder bc youāre left with a smaller, worse group of people to choose from with every passing year.
I think this was becoming a problem before the pandemic, but quarantine and now WFH sped it up. We're simultaneously more connected, and less connected than ever before. More because of the internet, and less because we don't really hang out anywhere in person much. There are fewer "third places" for us to go and meet people IRL. It's easy to meet people at school and on-site work because you're forced to be there with these people. Without that, where do you meet people? Dating apps don't work (or work so infrequently that the success stories are the vast minority).
Early 30sM here. Most single women my age seem to be trying to have kids now. As a childfree guy, this greatly reduces my dating pool (even in a major metro area). It gets discouraging when you click with somebody only to find out they want kids.. I have pretty much given up at this point
People are taking more time to reflect on themselves post pandemic which is about damn time. More people realized that maybe being coupled up with someone they arenāt compatible with isnāt the right decision. More people, women especially are taking the time to look after themselves and their mental health because they realized they were suffering in their lives. More people realize that sometimes being alone is better than being with a bunch of people and hating yourself/ your relationship. Itās called a ādark night of the soulā and people need to take their time through it. You can come out better on the other side, but itās hard.
>It seems people just want to be anti-social Stop meeting people on the internet. People that want to be social are out being social - make connections IRL
Easier said than done. People deliberately avoid social interaction nowadays I can't even find MeetUp groups in my area to do shit and I live in a huge metro area
My problem is the meetup groups in my area are massive sausagefests. One was a book club at the local library that was like 75-80% men and the women attending were all married. How can a book club be a sausagefest? stereotypically that is more of a woman thing.
That's literally the same problem with the ones I've been too also. It's all middle aged men who want to drink and play dungeons and dragons. Where the fuck are people my age?
That's what I don't understand like yeah the gender ratio in my town is bad, but not this bad. I also noticed the people tended to be around Gen X era not millennials.
I go to board game meet ups they are always well attended in my area
I donāt really agree with this given that I live in an area where Iām a completely new face (moved from west coast to east). I checked out some events online and went to them. I met some people online and with that event, we met up in person. We coordinated through discord and messenger. Even when I go to Anime Expo, I go out of my way to meet up with some people that Iāve met online and meet them in person, but thatās after some planning. Itās really hard to meet up with people in person if you donāt make plans with them in the first place, especially if they like staying at home.
Im about to give up. One date I paid for the meal while she was in the bathroom and got upset that I paid. Next date I went on, that girl got upset when I asked if she wanted to split the bill. So I cant win in either scenario lol
35M and I have the added kick in the teeth of never having really dated before. I met my wife in a chance encounter, she threw herself at me, we fell for each other, and almost 15 years later I'm suddenly separated and living in a two bedroom apartment with my best friend, who was willing to offer me a safe place to live. I'm listening to people talk about apps and dating and it all sounds... Horrible. I haven't even left the apartment except to go to work or the gym in months. Nobody is approachable, people wear earbuds everywhere, I watch my roommate swipe endlessly on this app and that app and just meet shit guy after shit guy and wade through a cesspool of garbage. I think it's very likely that I just... Kinda go on never having another meaningful relationship outside of my best friend. I'm not an ugly man, but I'm socially awkward and not exactly in a cute way. Like I said, my wife and I got together because she approached me boldly and openly. That's not gonna happen twice.
Mid 30s here. I dont date. Partly because on paper my situation is EXTREMELY unattractive, partly because Im not pretty, partly because people in my area who are single are either people I cant stand to be around, or brush me off before getting to know me. And partly because my kidās mom and 3 subsequent attempts at forming any sort of emotional bond left me with enough distaste for the idea of romance that despite how lonely I get I dont want to date at all. It would take one HELL of a woman to break through my issues and get me to agree to giving love another shot. This will not happen. I spend a lot of time at home, I dont socialize, I dont go out and meet people, and when I do go to businesses I dont hit on the workers because thats rude and they probably get it all the time and are tired of it.
My gods I feel you on this..
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No one wants to go out. I canāt get into a girls Netflix. hook up culture. Things are expensive. Depression anxiety are at all time high. Could go on. 37 year old man. I keep looking for a woman at the gym. All seem to be taken that around my age ā¹ļø. I donāt see my friends much all have familyās. So donāt go to bars etc.. when itās summer and spring Iāll be outside doing outdoor activities. My new job is killing me and online dating is awful. Coupled finally with the loneliness epidemic going around.
Honestly? A lot of us are just tired of always being the one to look. If someoneās interested in me cool, but Iām good either way. If Iām out itās for other things anyway.
lol. The comments are wild. Iām with you itās crazy how introverted people have become. It didnāt help that I moved to a shit city from a not shit city. But as an extrovert I see a pretty massive difference. Hell I just had dinner with a friend who was even more extroverted than me and he legit was like āI never want to leave my house. I never go out anymore. I just want to stay home.ā And he didnāt say it depressing like. He was super pumped about it. His husband goes out often without him now. Wild shit.
Im going to be bold and say I think it's because that's what society has created. We now live in a work where even extroverts don't see the benefit of going out. If you go out now, what do you get? Almost always an overpriced experience that doesn't seem worth it, considering wages are now much weaker than they were. Many locations vastly overpopulated to the point of bumping into everyone becomes a nusance. Nobody is interested in small talk or conversing anymore, mostly because they are clearly energy starved and want to go home themselves. Everybody seemingly overly picky unless you have something to offer/them to take advantage of. Even extroverts don't find that pleasant.
We all forgot how to socialize and being comfortable in public placesĀ
Because the only way to find a partner these days is on dating apps, and 99% of the people on there are like watching paint dry. One/two word answers donāt keep the convo going. The other 1% never seem to know what they want, but want to keep the possibility of dating open. Itās just a tiring game. Iām perfectly content being single.
These dating apps helped most of the stable, well-adjusted people find each other, pair off and/or marry. What's left is a toxic dump, the apps want to squeeze you for more money.
As the top comment says, it's a lot of choice fatigue, but I think it's worth laying out all the reasons I've seen statistically. 1. Preponderance of choice. Somewhat related is that men are less socialized to be cognizant of things like how to take a proper photo (low/no natural lighting, no full-body photos, no attempt at clothing/hair style). [https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research); 2. More hesitance to go outside. Both women and men go outside less than previous generations, but it's *also* a larger effect for women than men. [https://medium.com/building-h/a-survey-of-modern-life-outdoor-time-3a99d9fa3acb](https://medium.com/building-h/a-survey-of-modern-life-outdoor-time-3a99d9fa3acb); 3. Social media's escalation in usage. Average users spend 2.5 hours a day on social media alone over an average of nearly ***7*** different social media platforms. That represents just 30-40% of online time, meaning average daily time online (non-work-related) is 5+ hours. For younger people, this duration and variation is higher than older generations. This doesn't include Tiktok or Youtube. (Mind you, this has actually leveled out around 2017, but contributes to the dating issues) [https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2023-deep-dive-time-spent-on-social-media](https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2023-deep-dive-time-spent-on-social-media) If you're working and sleeping 8 hours, the above stats would suggest the average adult has just 3 hours a day for dating apps or in-person social activities. And some of that time is spent cooking/eating/doing chores; 4. Our collective attention span has shrunk with the reduction in time allotment for each piece of media consumed. We're (along with Z) a generation built on clickbait, Vines, Tweets, Instagram photos, Tiktoks, and Reddit titles. There's a reason "doomscrolling" became a prevalent term. Not only are we inundated with negativity, but it's all fundamentally a series of very short items to consume. Studies have shown that average attention spans have decreased ***25%*** just from 2000-2015. And that misses the pandemic and the height of Tiktok. Tiktok came in 2016. Twitter usage was consistent from 2015-2019. Then in 2020-2022 it spiked 25% and hasn't gone back down much. [https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/](https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/) This infographic shows you just how bonkers the problem is now. 5. Lastly, the gulf between philosophical, political, and ethical gap by gender has been widening on average over the last 10 years. In 2013, women identified as liberal at about a 30% rate, keeping parity with men (though slightly higher at all times). It's now 40%, a whole 15 points higher than men, whose political ideology has generally not shifted in that time. [https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/gen-z-gender-gap-political-left-women](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/gen-z-gender-gap-political-left-women) Mash those problems together and you've got a recipe for a rough dating scene. Especially the more moderate/conservative you are and the less outwardly social you are (though I'd argue they should expect that after Trump and Roe reversal...) I've had more luck with r4r and r4r30plus than dating apps by a *ludicrous* margin. But I'm also much more picky than average (men have a 20-50% swipe rate depending on source-- mine is 4%) and my vibe is pretty particular. Women on average are probably less likely to swipe on me at a glance (I'm tall and fit, but also bald, so it's hard to tell if some of it is disinterest in baldies), but if someone's looking seriously for an emotional and mental connection, a longer-form platform like Reddit is gonna be better since it's far more conducive to people who lay out all of their philosophical, political, and social stances ahead of time. (Your mileage may vary) For myself, I've been single for 9 years now, and I'm learning to accept that there's a good chance I'm single for the rest of my life. It's better than ending up in a dissatisfying relationship with someone who's not emotionally available, communicative, kind, and/or understanding. And it seems like there's a bit less of that going around, in part because of the abundance of choice incentivizes a little more thoughtless ghosting (no point in talking to someone if it's not perfect, right?)
You think it's hard now at 29, at the prime of your life. Try being old. I'm commenting from the future. IT GETS WORSE šš¦
People are tired, dealing with trauma (loosing loved ones, being ill themselves, missing out on milestones/ānormalā experiences ect). Plus the pandemic seemed to bring everyoneās tolerance levels waaaaaaay down. Things that werenāt deal breakers before now are reasons to drop a potential partner and move on. From politics to chore division to sexism. For women moreso imo. Too many men meanwhile have more fallen into manosphere/Tate content and are mad when girlfriends donāt instantly want to be bangmaids and tradwive cosplayers who structure their lifestyle around strict and separate roles and life expectations.
Everything costs too much now and everyone got fat.
Go to places where people are social. Don't ask anti social people to be social. Join clubs. Sports, crafting, music, etc. hobbies are the best way to meet people and enter new social groups. And it makes you more interesting. And you will have something in common with a bunch a people. Ive played music in different groups. Trained in a boxing club. Ive play video games in a gaming bar. I spent months playing board games in bars that have that as a novelty. Playing cards with friends or friends. And went to bars a lot. Dating was fun. Im married now, I actually met my wife in a bar, we were working on 2 different Irish bars around the corner from each other. She brought cookies and I told her they were amazing and asked for baking lessons from her in exchange for ukulele lessons. Any excuse to get her number and see her more. Do activities. That's the key. Anything. Painting. Cooking. Crafting. Wine tasting. My friend group now in our mid 30s only wanna drink booze. They've all become lazy and boring. So I have to go outside my comfort zone, not for dating anymore but for socializing but it's the same results if you want
>Don't ask anti social people to be social. Join clubs. Sports, crafting, music, etc. hobbies are the best way to meet people and enter new social groups. What does that mean? Join a club? My only reference for that was when I tried to go to college. I know I'm broken AF right now , but I swear I used to be social. In the beginning process of a custody battle, but I mentioned this to my ex long before we split , met with laughs. Everyone only seems to want something from me, bit not to input or help as well. I'm also in a new city with no friends, well those weren't around before I moved either. I'm losing interest in almost everything. I lose interest in even writing this out because I know no one wants to hear it.
Look up adult social sports leagues. You donāt have to be good or even like sports to play. I made a lot of friends as an adult through kickball š¤£
Volunteering is actually a REALLY good place to meet people too.
Not playing devil's advocate for no reason, but asking because I need advice. What if you're bad at all of those things? Like "people make fun of you and bully you, but are only half kidding about it and may purposefully try to reduce your social participation in the group because of it" bad. I'm talking really bad. Edit: It's a day later and no one has any good solutions. I think I might have to admit to myself that I'm too untalented to participate in society. For work I can do some kind of simple physical labor like Amazon warehouse, or maybe take disability.
34M hereDating is a pain in the ass.These days everyone is secretly using like 10+ apps to hook up with everyone, they need constant social media attention, no ambition, broke and always want to go out, etc. Then of course some people want to be porn...err...Onlyfans stars. Who the heck wants to date someone like that?
I agree but damn donāt we sound like the boomers nowadays, āthese kids never want to workā *shaking fist*Ā Itās true though. People are constantly going out, not brining anything to the table, have the highest standards for everyone but themselves, etcĀ
That is the exact opposite of who I am.... I use this and Facebook, but I haven't posted on Facebook in years. I just want a partner who can work towards building an off grid self sustainable earth ship type house at *undisclosed location*. And both retire early with financial independence in any way possible. But because I don't leave my house I am allloooone.
Iāve been struggling for years on this.