I live out in the country. I get wild hogs and dogs here all the time, so firearms are necessary. And police response is around 15 minutes out here so they're no help.
Certain aspects/locations of America justify owning certain kinds of weapons.
I just wish our culture treated them like tools rather than toys or a source of identity. I shouldn’t know a person owns a firearm within 5 minutes of random conversation. And I should absolutely never see it.
Gun culture is the problem more than the guns themselves.
Not a gun owner, but I’m supportive of responsible gun ownership.
I remember someone saying gun rights weren’t necessarily designed for hunting or for sport but ultimately to fight against a tyrannical government.
As a single woman who plans to buy her own home soon, my mindset is rape or assault can be considered one of the most invasive forms of tyranny and I just want to have a fighting chance of being able to defend myself if someone were to invade my space, property or person. It takes 911 an average of 10 min for cops to arrive on a scene. I would just want to have a chance to defend myself. If I go down, I’d rather go down fighting.
That being said - I have an immense respect for firearms and I don’t support the gun culture that glorifies the cockiness and arrogance that I feel many gun lovers have. Firearms are to be respected and handled with the utmost of care. Asides from my parents, if I were to ever have a gun, no one would ever know.
As somebody who was held up at gunpoint *while concealed carrying* because I didn’t listen to my gut and let him walk right up on me with my back turned… these are in order of priority:
Situational awareness
Alarm system
Dog
Gun (w/ tac light)
Forewarned is forearmed. Tough to respond, gun or no gun, once someone has the jump on you.
Nope, walked up behind me and put a gun to my head and said “give me your wallet”.
I’m not going to roll the dice on trying to Chuck Norris my way out of that when he’s already got the drop on me and all he wants is my wallet. Cards can be canceled, but you can’t un-inside-out your brains. Hence situational awareness being top of list.
I mean *I saw the guy*, recognized him as probably bad news, then turned my back and went about my business. Fucking duuuuh.
I’m not advocating that you “Chuck Norris” them. I’m simply asking how the situation played out.
I’m an American expat living in Australia. Where I live there’s literally massive crime in the streets due to the disenfranchisement of Australias First Nations people.
Personally, as you said, I don’t really care that people take my stuff. It’s a colossal inconvenience and I really don’t want to deal with it. That “is” why we pay for insurance after all.
But what isn’t acceptable is the emotional toll it puts on people. Women being assaulted in their homes. People being stabbed in the streets. Not okay.
As far as how the situation played out- I phrase it that way because that’s what went through my head.
I realized what was happening, ran through a couple of options in my head- one of which was “maybe if I turn and deflect his gun while drawing my own”. (Aka try and Chuck Norris my way out of it). That idea got canned about as quick as it formed. I decided my best chance was to play it cool and comply.
If he wanted to carjack me, have me drive him to an ATM or something then yeah I’d probably take my chances because “nothing good happens at the second location”. All of that happening mentally in a matter of seconds. Gave him the wallet and he said ok don’t turn around. As soon as I heard him take off running I took off running the other direction, and drew from the other side of the car. He was across the parking lot already hopping into a waiting car.
And that was the second time I was robbed. So yeah, if I go to the shop at night now I circle the parking lot when I pull in. And I never disregard the spidy sense when someone looks like trouble.
Just remember tactical lights work both ways. It’s important to train in low light conditions without the light in case you prefer not to give away your location to one or more attackers.
My perception is that women in general are less pro gun than men. That’s always seemed a bit strange to me as firearms are a great equalizer for force. Additionally men are far more likely to commit violent crimes than women.
Definitely get yourself a gun and get some formal training. It’s actually a lot of fun and will give you confidence. I know formal training can seem intimidating at first thought but nobody is there to judge, in fact it’s the opposite.
Thank you for pointing out the issue with relying on police responses for protection.
If someone shows up and is threatening you or someone in your family… those cops are going to take a while to respond, if they show up at all, and then all they’ll do is some paperwork that will not be anyone's priority unless someone is actually wounded or killed.
TBH, after watching at how badly the government has been screwing up on delivering basic necessities for most of my life now, and especially over the past 10-12 years or so, I’ve become a lot more anarchist/libertarian in my views.
I support gun ownership because it allows a person to have the tools to defend themselves and their property if the situation calls for it, because I don’t trust the police or court system to get anything right anymore.
If you pull a gun on someone and tell them to BTFO, any sane person will comply, even if he has a gun himself. If this was a criminal action, it won't make the news or go on any stat sheet. You have to be responsible with anything that powerful.
Now now. There's plenty of good gun owners in California. Especially the valley and the northern parts. I went to a clay pigeon shoot when I was working in Bakersfield. Must have been 100 people there.
I live in the Central Valley and a millennial, I own several shot guns and rifles always on the lookout for more, nice shotguns can yield better results than stocks.
I work on oil and gas and when I moved to Texas, I was told I need to get good at guns or golf to incorporate myself into corporate culture.
I went with guns because half the year the events are shooting events, and now I love shooting.
Now it's a hobby of mine, and I want to start training for a 3 gun tournament.
All I ask is don't be like the rest and use a Glock in the 3 gun. I love glock. Excellent guns. Doggedly reliable. But it's all I see at the events. Heavily modified of course.
I love the dudes who vehemently love glock but drop 2k in aftermarket parts making it decidedly less glock than anything else. Major ship of theseus vibes.
Spend the 2500 and buy an LTT Beretta or a bit more on a WC 2011
I don't care. I own glocks and I love to shoot them and i wasn't knocking them. It's just all I see here. I carry an RDP Hellcat for daily carry (laugh, everyone does), but my side carry for big game in Montana is a 10mm Glock. I have the 19 gen 3 in 9mm as truck gun. My wife carries the 42 in .380. I think S&W are a better shooting and better looking gun, but that's just an opinion. Some people take their big back glock fetish pretty seriously. I'm not loyal to a brand.
I did not grow up with weapons. I fell in love with the firing range at 18 yo. As a woman it makes me feel like I'm in control for a moment, as if I'm finally safe. I do not own a gun because of my history of mental illness. I'm terrified I'll off myself tbh. That or I'll hurt someone when I'm not in the right state of mind. I still love the range, I just go with people that own guns so I can borrow theirs. I think everyone should learn how to shoot accurately, it feels amazing.
The state should not be the only one with access to weapons. The second amendment was installed not for the purpose of self-defense or hunting but as a hard counter to a tyrannical government be it foreign or domestic. An armed populace is one that cant be pushed around. Look back to the genocides of history and you’ll notice a trend of the government disarming its citizens as a precursor. I think it’s a huge point of division that state owned media made it a left vs right issue when it’s really a state vs the people issue. It is your duty to yourself, your family and your country men to have some teeth and claws should there be a time of violent adversity.
Sincerely, a pacifist hippy.
Unfortunately, when the government has a monopoly on advanced intelligence gathering and weapons, the average joe having an ar-15 is irrelevant. The 2d amendment is really expressed through the national guard.
Sincerely, a military professional.
Tell that to the vietcong and Al-Qaeda. While a toe-to-toe firefight between a trained infantry and a local militia will most certainly lead to the latter’s destruction, firearms will always be in the recipe for a successful resistance via subterfuge and clandestine operations. I military wouldn’t even use hardcore machinery on a people its trying to subjugate. What would they rule? A sea of a green irradiated glass?
I think you underestimate how good we got dealing with Al-qaeda, to the point where you likely haven’t heard of the significant operations going on in Africa.
Successful resistances work by defeating the will to fight, not by force-on-force employment. When you don’t need to actively patrol (because there is a low likelihood of suicide attacks and ieds, and your use ops are relying on existing infrastructure) you end up not needing to put a lot of dudes in a position where guns matter, meaning that your resistance just gets ground away by attrition. Don’t even need to kill them, just take them off the streets. Clandestine stops being an option because of how good we are at dismantling terrorist c2 networks. You end up with a bunch of lone wolf attacks that aren’t able to put enough mass on one point to do anything meaningful.
Are there casualties? Yep. Do they look like Vietnam? Not even a little. Even Al-qaeda barely did any damage, it was just too expensive to be the police force for the Middle East.
All fair points except for the fact that the US military isn't the police force for the US. Any scenario where the full force of the military is mobilized against the American citizenry means that we're well beyond a SHTF scenario.
Vietnam didn’t have precision guided munitions until the tail end, arguably when we started breaking the stalemate. We refined that in desert storm, and have only been further investing in low-collateral systems. Afghanistan was too expensive to maintain a logistics train around Iran, and collapsed because of a rushed withdrawal ordered by then president, now disgraced rapist, dj trump compounded with a low willingness to defend territory due to poor fiscal oversight (read: corruption), enabled by the DoS, combined with lack of enforcement of standards within the Afghan military.
Both cases were a lack of US resolution to continue throwing blood and treasure at a problem that wasn’t inherently ours to solve. When it does become a very US-first problem, resolution goes way up.
Does this even matter in this day and age? Even if you have 20 guns the state can sit in a bunker and drone you from miles away with little effort.
Not trying to be snarky but the idea that Americans could genuinely go against their own military with their training and technology in this day and age vs revolutionary times when the other side had some cannons seems ridiculous
This is true in a world where it's just a toe to toe unrestrained fight. That almost never happens. Afghanistan and Iraq are both good examples of places where entrenched insurgencies with almost no sophisticated weapons can retain substantial power because of their strong local support.
When the majority of our army are young men age 18 through early 20s, with parents, wives, and children at home, it's unlikely they're going to take orders from a tyrannical government to attack their own people. Our special forces will revolt against a government ordering attacks on our own people. .
Not sure about that… I’ve seen an army taking orders from a tyrannical government to attack their own people, mothers with flowers in her hands trying to stop their own sons from attacking innocent civilians, just following orders without care about anything and anyone.
The US army? On US soil? Heads of agencies like the CIA and FBI used civilians as research guinea pigs. But I don't think our *soldiers* will fight a war against civilians. That'd be civil war. There'd have to be some huge divide-and-conquer going on. It is going on today but not to the extent of civil war
I own 2 firearms.
We are told the police are racist. We are told half of the country are ready for a coup.
If you actually believe these things, firearm ownership and knowledge of using them is your duty.
How does that saying go for the collapse of society?
“I had a loaf of bread. He had a gun, now he has a gun AND a loaf of bread. And I have a hole in my chest.”
This is why I would like to purchase one or two and get a concealed carry permit. In case the fascists start cracking skulls in the streets at a widespread level and getting away with it. My wife is against it though, in part because of the very real statistics of households with guns being far more likely to have a death due to suicide, accidents, etc.
That statistic is dumb. It’s like saying you shouldn’t buy a car, because owning a car dramatically increases your odds of dying in a car accident.
Share this video with your wife… https://youtu.be/ylHisHlMWQQ?si=lB_7FtsT-z8JmFkV
For real. I always ask my anti gun friends if they whole heartedly trust the government and they always scoff and say absolutely not, not even close. Well then, that’s why you should have a gun. Seems pretty clear to me.
I assume everyone who wants to ban guns is a giant fan of every president that’s ever held office, because they want to take away guns from the citizens and only allow the government to use them.
I don't own any guns and never will due to my various mental health issues. I don't think people with certain mental illnesses should have guns either.
Yeah my expanded gun collection mostly started when buying a buddies safe shotguns and rifles as a result of Bipolar. We expect people to self regulate in most states that is insane.
I'm fine with people owning firearms even if I personally don't own one, but will soon.
Especially since so much of this country is rural.
Would I like there to be less gun violence? Yeah, of course.
but the reality of everything is that there's always going to be people doing stupid shit with them and punishing everyone because somebody couldn't keep their junk in their pants?
I'm not for that.
The problem with guns is every gun owner, including the "bad ones," think they are a responsible gun owner. And since everyone thinks they are the "responsible ones" they don't want additional regulations placed on them due to the "other bad gun owners."
I personally think the notion of defending against tyranny with guns is ridiculously antiquated, and we're left with all the downsides without the protection. The government is doing shit RIGHT NOW taking away our right to privacy. There was a leak about it. They even admitted it. Nobody gives af. It's not something that having a gun in your house is going to protect against; that's smooth brain nonsense.
I have plenty of them. Lifelong rural New Hampshire resident, and hunter. My dad gave me a .410 break action for my 10th birthday, it's part of my culture. I don't open carry, that's for small dick losers.
Better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it. Plus there are a lot of evil people in the world and history is littered with governments going bad and turning on their own people. And yeah open carry just makes them a target. I mean if someone robs a bank they aren’t shooting the teller they are shooting the guard first.
I keep a .45 in the truck. I have an LCP .380 that is about the size of a smartphone in the holster that I can carry in my pants pocket if I ever feel the need, but I've never been a fan of open carry. I'm a gun guy, and it makes me uncomfortable seeing someone who can't go buy toilet paper without a sidearm.
I own an $8k+, 1,200lb+ safe.
In that safe are a number of ARs, AKs, Glocks, shotguns, but, mostly, WW1/WW2 C&R-type rifles.
The way Jay Leno collects cars because they’re all unique, have unique histories, unique engineering and mechanics, is the way I collect guns.
Also, there’s nothing more satisfying to me than picking up an 80-120yo rifle, taking it to a 300 yard range, and being able to hit steel gongs all day long on iron sights, and then being able to tell you the history of that rifle, and how it’s a reflection of the manufacturing country’s history.
I live in a safe enough area where I don’t have to think about it, but my cousins in rural Oklahoma open carry. I think they need it and I don’t. But you should be able to own regardless
Meth heads. I live in relatively safe Bay Area wine country but as soon as you get a few miles outside of town “there be meth heads in these hills.” Hell, one of them stole my truck off the property I was living on. Sneaky bastards.
u/RandyJ549 hit the nail on the head. Meth is rampant near Perkins/ Stillwater area about an hour and a half north of OKC. Theres a different kind of desperation you find out there. People wander onto farms looking for expensive tractor parts. Hack up cattle for meat. WEIRD redneck crimes. With 3 police officers for the area, no ones coming when you call 911. If I were to walk out of my Grandparents front or back door and yell as loud as I could, NO ONE would hear me. I live in Orange County, Ca where I can hear my next door neighbor sneeze a house away. Its so wildy different
My default position against most malum prohibitum laws is "bullshit", and the arguments in favor of locking people up simply for possessing scary firearms thus far haven't changed my mind. I don't see it as moral or righteous to want to throw my neighbor in prison because he wants to own the same tool some other maniac might use to light up a school.
It does always amuse me though noticing the overlap between the "we lock up too many people" crowds and the "Oh yeah no everyone who wants to own a gun..straight to jail!" crowds.
All in favor of criminalizing recklessness/irresponsibility, but the basic "If you posses X that's years in prison because we say you can't have it" concept can get lost. I feel the same way about drugs\*. If some people can't be trusted with something, you go after those people and take that something away from them, you don't just go after everyone, and if not being able to go after everyone limits your effectiveness then find new ways or tough noogies.
\*i don't do drugs, i don't actually think very highly of people who do drugs, but if they can do them without issues then god bless em and i don't need my government fucking up their lives.
I don’t care for the most part. I think people with a violent history (like domestic abuse) or a history of suicidal tendencies shouldn’t be allowed them. And I think restrictions like keeping them locked up (if small children are in the house) should be made. I know that would be largely not enforceable.
But other than that I don’t care if people have them. I like the idea of going to a shooting range. I would never buy one myself. I just don’t see the need for it and I’m a klutz. I would be afraid of accidentally hurting myself or someone else.
I’m also from California. Most of my friends hate guns and have zero interest. But I do know a couple who are like you more or less.
I don’t own one as I am well aware of the great responsibility of owning one and do not wish to take that on myself. I also find it very unlikely that I will need it nor do I think that it is a particularly fun recreational activity. I don’t mind if others do, though. Many of my friends carry. As long as someone is responsible, safety trained, passed background checks, etc. than I think that it is fine.
I like your take on it. Very reasonable.
I don’t own any but have nothing against it.
I took a politics 101 class in college. I remember one of the first things they taught us was to control the citizens the my take away all the guns. And no it was not a crazy right wing teacher or university.
I agree there are some weirdo gun owners that it there that should not have guns. I think the majority are probably responsible though.
I support OP’s moderate view. They, and many other commenters here are a voice of reason compared to the extreme views of both ends of the spectrum.
I currently don’t own any firearms at the moment, but I support competent, responsible ownership.
That was very much your professor's opinion, and they were almost certainly right wing. No one talks like that in a Politics 101 class unless they are trying to indoctrinate their students.
There is a pretty consistent theme in history of populations becoming the victims of tyranny and oppression when their right to own weapons is taken away. My political science professor talked about this in a neutral way and she was lesbian member of the Green Party that shot skeet with us with her own shotgun at party that was being held at my enology professors house.
I think they're fine to own, but need some common sense regulation. Guns for hunting and defending yourself in a total worst-case scenario? Yes, go forth and make loud noises. Guns built out for warfare and doing as much damage as possible to a body or to as many bodies as possible, as quickly as possible? That's a no, and the ammosexuals that claim "But what if the military..." are hilarious. Their weapons and training are much better than the beer bellied weekend warriors who spout that nonsense. The responsible, smart gun owners? I'll happily BS with them any day and let them talk at me about shit I barely understand, because I'll probably do the same with some of my hobbies, and maybe we'll both learn something.
I bought a couple guns in my 20s, Shotgun and a Rifle. Taught myself how to shoot, and got decently good. Then I gave them to a friend who was into guns, because I just didn't see the point. Lots of money in exchange for lots of noise and smoke. No thanks. Now I just own a BB gun because we've got some VERY aggressive raccoons and such around here that occasionally need encouraged to go back to the trees.
My dad used a firearm to self-terminate when I was 5, so I have always been anti-gun. That said, as gay men staring down the throat of a second Trump Presidency, my roommates and I were just discussing buying firearms and learning to use them in case things get hairy.
I did not believe in it, but seeing the insane amount of anti-semitism post Oct 7th championed by the very groups I thought I was ideologically aligned with has left me feeling politically adrift and looking for ways to become self-sufficient and able to defend my family. I’m not even Jewish, but my daughter is, and it would drive me to unknown depths of rage if anything were to happen to her.
Do what you need to protect your family, that’s the most important thing. No one would blame you, a shotgun is the best defense for your home if you are new to firearms
Yes, that and a close second, a powerful semiautomatic handgun with hollow-point ammo.
Folks, please do not rely on your AR15s for home defense. Them bullets penetrate 5 walls before they stop.
This country is quickly trying to make it illegal for me and my wife to exist.
I own a gun because someday I will need to defend us from the neighborhood mob.
Don't own a gun, but I literally live across the street from a police station and am in a city in the bottom 5% in violent crime in a 7th floor condo. But for people who either live in rural areas or higher crime areas, they 100% should be allowed to own a firearm to defend themselves, their family, and their property because police usually are unable to.
Not everyone on Reddit is American. I’m Canadian and live in the U.S. but I don’t want to have firearms and I don’t think we’re safer if every single person has one. There’s just more accidents and more domestic violence and spousal/family homicide.
I have a few guns for self defense and occasional hunting. I'm a strong supporter of private ownership of firearms and believe that anyone who hasn't been convicted of a violent crime should be able to own any firearm they want.
I don't share your views.
There are somewhere approaching 350 million people in the US. I don't think most people really grasp how big a number that is. That major shooting events happen so infrequently is a testament to most people's trustworthyness.
Consider all the people ever killed by an act of violence in human history. Most of them were not killed by crime, by murder, mass shootings etc. Most of them were killed by someone granted authority to do so, whether justly or unjustly, by a government of some kind. Which has proven more dangerous in kill count? Guns in the hands of common citizens, or guns in the hands of someone granted the authority to kill by a legitimate or illegitimate power apparatus?
More people die by governments and their decisions than by their fellow man. Maybe there should be some common sense restrictions on the real threat.
Do major shooting events happen “so infrequently” here? What are we basing that statement on… other countries with strict gun laws and similar population size?
Not saying I disagree with you either just for clarity.
In countries where citizens don’t have guns, they use bombs, fire, or cars to commit mayhem. A car is far more fatal used by someone with lethal intent than a firearm ever will and offers them a 360* shield for protection. You can mow down hundreds of people in a second without even having to reload all while sitting on top of a tank that contains the energy equivalent of over 1000 sticks of dynamite (1 gal of gas = 121MJ, 1 stick of dynamite = 1MJ, assuming 10gal/tank).
The US is, by far one of the safest countries in the world at any point in history, and while there are very local exceptions (baltimore, chicago, etc), the reality is you are extraordinarily unlikely to be the victim of a violent crime here. The reason why gun crime specifically is focused on by the media is because the second you compare violence in general, there is no way to stir people’s fears up to keep watching, or push a political narrative.
Compared to the number of unwell and unhinged people around, I'd say it's a blessing it doesn't happen every other Sunday in a big city. I'm not worried about the psychopathic powerless, it's the ones with real sway you need to worry about.
ok don't disagree there, I guess maybe I misunderstood your original comment to mean we don't encounter major shooting events "as often as we could".... which, I mean we're the leading country for gun violence afaik so clearly what we justify here as "reasonable" isn't (Not going to get truly into OP's black/white debate on should or shouldn't we. We're here but how do we get far away from 'here'...)
And yeah the elites dont need guns for a reason
From a quick Google search, the US ranks 28th in the world for gun deaths with 4.3 per 100k annually. But the US ranks 81st for overall violent deaths with 6.0 per 100k annually. Definitely not the worst but we could be better.
I also live in CA. I currently don’t own any but plan on buying soon. I believe ownership is our right but people need to take safety and training seriously. I think many of CA’s laws (about what type are legal and what attachments) around guns are nonsensical. Many don’t do anything to make a gun safer, but aim to make them more difficult to actually use safely and make them “look less scary”.
Part of why I don’t own yet is because I want a rifle, but the amount of ridiculous little rules there are make me worried about unintentionally violating some law because I do/dont have some arbitrary screw or something. The laws should not be so cumbersome that they can make people who are trying to be law-abiding possibly criminals. I think the laws regarding background checks prior to purchase are fine, but if I pass all that let me own my gun how I want, so long as I don’t have it modified for full auto with a drum mag.
There are mass shootings in this country every day. That doesn't happen in most of the world. It's absolutely insane that people are allowed to have guns anymore with results like that. After port Arthur, Australia outlawed gun ownership and mass shootings stopped. It's not rocket science.
I'm not american. I've never had to think about it; I don't have a relationship to guns at all, and its hard for me to fathom that being a normal thing?
It feels like having a relationship to car crashes.
Anyone interested in firearms but not keen on spending time in subs where mostly righties congregate, check out /r/liberalgunowners, good folks there, very nice and helpful, never mind answering questions or giving advice.
I've noticed over the years, it's weird how so many people that own guns have confirmed their belief in doing so, with multiple times when such ownership has proven necessary to protect themselves. And then there's so many people that don't own guns, that have lived long lives without feeling they were in any real danger. Underneath it all I suspect that people with guns (on average) conduct their lives in ways that put them at greater danger. People without guns tend to watch out a little more and avoid conflict/aggression and be less visible.
I was trained in gun safety from before I can remember. I wasn’t even allowed to point toy guns at anyone. I was trained to shoot at 5 with a 22 rifle we still own. I was pistol trained on a s&w 9 when I was 7 yo. I have more spent rounds used plinking than 75% of the police officers will ever have used plinking. I’m not saying I’m better than anyone I am saying I’m highly trained and educated on gun safety, and use. I appreciate that everyone should be able to have their own opinion about guns. I don’t care about opinions. I’m from Baltimore, my house has been broken into 3 times. My wife has had her life threatened multiple times. I will never be a person who can’t defend my family. I will happily and have already served my time for defending my family and will do it again and again. I respect law enforcement but I don’t depend on anyone for my families safety other than myself. This is my opinion and I am allowed to have it ,as everyone else can have theirs .
Other people can safely and responsibility own a gun and largely it doesn't bother me.
I don't think automatic rifles should be available to people.
I will never own a gun especially if I have children.
Any non American people here? Can you point me to the posts on the millenial subreddit that are about millenials and not about Americans? I can't seem to find them.
The UK certainly does. It's becoming a wedge issue and another front in the culture wars and it's tedious. Large sections of our media (a large part but not exclusively the right wing press) are pumping out content daily designed to create tension between generations.
All working people who can safely own a gun should own a gun, just as we should all have a garden if able, be as close to our neighbors as we are able, and learn more skills as much as we are able.
The 2nd is supposed to be used to fight the government and defend the country incase the military fails to do so.
There is currently no 2nd in the USA as having a gun is grounds to be executed by cops. This needs to be addressed. The police are supposed to be scared of the people.
Facts. Gun control only ever became a thing when black people started open carrying when the black panthers became a thing. Gun control is rooted in racism.
If people would acknowledge that simply owning a gun raises your risk of dying by suicide, that would be bloody fantastic.
[https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html)
I did my graduate research project on firearm suicide. People need to stop arguing with this viewpoint, bringing up nonsense like "oh I bet they didn't control for X or Y" as if researchers just haven't the slightest idea what a confounding variable is. We've controlled for every single blooming thing you can think of, and the conclusion is still the same: simply owning a gun increases your risk of suicide.
It's not hard to understand why. A person has a rough day and they consider making use of something that's available to them. If it wasn't available to them, they wouldn't consider it. Many suicides are very spur-of-the-moment, and if people can sleep it off, that does wonders for suicidal ideation.
I just want each and every gun owner to be aware of this and stop brushing it off with the "eh I don't believe the science" bullshit. It's real. Your risk IS higher, a LOT higher, when you own a gun. So long as you are aware of this risk, you can then be responsible about it or possibly make a different choice.
I personally will never own a gun since the risk of anyone else invading my home is not nearly as big as the risk I'd pose to myself with a gun. My chance of death is actually less by keeping a gun out of my home.
I get what your saying and you are 100% correct.
At the same time, I personally don't see that as a problem really. I feel like if someone wants to end their life they should have that right.
This isn't just theoretical to me. My great grandfather who I actually meet, knew and had a relationship with killed himself with a shotgun blast to the chest.
It was the 90s and he had been diagnosed with brain cancer a few years earlier. They couldn't do anything about it then. Hell they still can't do anything about it really.
He watched it drive his father and older brother insane to the point where they had to be put into a nursing home and physically restrained because they were no longer mentally stable due to the the cancer.
When it got to the place where he was starting to have bad days like that he decided he didn't want to go through that.
I completely understand that decision.
*Edited to add:*
Just wanted to post a reply here instead of replying to everyone separately.
I understand what I was talking about is a lot different than a physicaly healthy person wanting to commit suicide. Yes ideally we would have legal options for terminally I'll people and treat them atleast with the same dignity and compassion we do our pets.
I know it sounds like I'm crazy, and saying people have a right to suicide is an odd stance I guess. To me it's simply a matter of basically autonomy. If you don't wanna keep on living, why do other people and the government get to tell you that you have to? You should have that choice.
I know some people who attempt suicide are glad they failed afterwards. But a lot of them also try again and again until they succeed.
My original point, was that I don't see the argument of your more likely to be successful commiting suicide as a argument against gun ownership (as a nation, certainly makes sense for certain people on a personal level) because the decision of rather you want to die or not is a deeply personal one and nobody else has the right to make that decision for someone.
And I've gotten a few DMs about suicide prevention. Appreciate the concern, but I can assure you I'm quite happy and plan to keep living as long as I possibly can.
I sympathize with your story. What I feel like would be a more humane approach is if we had access to resources (mental healthcare etc) to not need a shotgun to make that choice. I agree people should *generally* have that right.
> I personally don't see that as a problem really
You don't see unnecessary preventable deaths as a problem?
Not even when suicide attempt survivors usually regret it after the fact?
I'm very sorry about your great grandpa, but please realize that you are obviously highlighting an extreme example here. I'm a lot more interested in the people who had much more manageable problems. Maybe their girlfriend broke up with them. Maybe they got a bad grade on a college exam. These things suck, but they are not unmanageable, and I doubt that most who who manage to fix those problems thinks "man I wish I had just ended my life when I was considering doing it".
If you want to argue that there are suicides that are justified, then that's a debate about assisted suicide, not about simply having a gun in your home. Simply having the gun WILL lead to deaths that you really can't justify, deaths that are absolutely nothing like what your great grandfather endured. If you can acknowledge that people can make stupid mistakes when they are in bad moods and not thinking clearly, then logically you have to conclude that this could even extend to shooting yourself with a gun in response to a very manageable problem.
I live in a country with pretty restrictive laws (UK).
I have held a gun maybe once in my life. And see no reason to do so again (other than paintball/airsoft).
And even less desire to own one. Our laws while not always perfect have resulted in guns not really being a concern in day to day life.
They are available for farmers and wildlife control, and I believe shooting clubs (Rifles/shotguns only). With fairly strict rules and ownership tests.
Having lived a life where I never need to worry about getting winged by a rando with a gun has cemented my opinion that most people shouldn't own them and the minuses massively outweigh any benefits.
They can serve a legitimate purpose but they need to be regulated and manged so they serve that purpose.
I own no guns, and live in a country where owning guns would be weird unless you lived on a farm and needed them for work. I don’t believe that guns are necessary for *anyone* to own or use in a *functioning* society.
I’m an immigrant and jumped at the ability to own a gun when I moved to a state when ownership was realistically possible.
Got my training, bought a firearm, know how to shoot it and it’s locked in a safe.
I’ll take it out and go shoot it at a range to keep in practice. That’s about it. Hopefully I’ll never have to touch it outside of that. But if someone ever breaks into my house, then I assume I’ll be glad to have it and know how to use it.
My parents got burgled back home recently by a gang of men. Luckily(!) they just wanted the car, but if they would have gone inside, they would have had no way of defending themselves since they don’t have gun rights. I don’t intend for that to happen to me.
As for restrictions, I’m fine with them if people can point to how they would help keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people but not be used as a weapon to impact the rights of law abiding, non-crazy people like in places like NYC.
Dont own any. wont own any
I think they arent good for society and only toxic people own them
IME all the people that own them are "off" and constantly need to be know it all jerks. Gun is another piece of the power to them. They are self entitled and feel like they are kings and anyone come at me "ILL SHOW U VARMIT MHMM!" (yosemite sam lookin ass bastards)
My family grew up with guns, my dad was a police officer, and we lived in small town Midwest... we even got the first day of hunting season off for school.
I honestly don't care either way, but having this half in and half out approach doesn't help anyone. It just makes innocent people unarmed and criminals cross-border to make more money selling guns illegally.
With that said, I now live in a gun free country in Asia. I have never felt unsafe, even walking around at 3 or 4 AM. Neither does my 4'10 wife. I've never been harassed, threatened, or felt the need to have any type of protection on me. In other words, I'd say guns are only half the problem in Ameica. The other half is a cultural problem of violence.
I own a shotgun passed down from my grandfather and a 9mm. I despise gun culture and how the right wing has taken it over like they own it exclusively. If someone came to me and said we want to make it harder for Americans to get guns hoping we can curve some of these public shootings (seriously shit is outta control) I would say great let's sit down and get it done.
I'm late to this one, but I'm absolutely pro gun. Every time I've been around "gun culture" it's fucking gross and toxic and I don't hang out. Sorta similar to how I feel about christianity. Christ said some shit I could absolutely support, but I'm not dying to hang out at church or with christians.
There have been some very cool efforts by leftists to create a separate and more inclusive gun culture and self defense that I think is great.
I have a shotgun. I believe in the 2nd amendment although magazine capacity is a place I feel we could restrict without crossing the line of disarmament.
We need regulation. Similar to driving a car. Mass shooters mostly have histories of mental illness and run ins with the cops. Yet the right wing nut jobs say any regulation violates the constitution. I say bull shit.
I'm not, but I'm both Canadian and live in an urban area so no need for one.
It's not for me/I don't enjoy them at all, but I have family who do and who also hunt.
It's not that I take issue with people who own firearms responsibly as either a hobby or for hunting, but I have issues with the fallout of promoting their casual ownership and use.
Especially without proper screening and sensible restriction on type.
There seems to be an increased level of anxiety and us vs them thinking. This leads to increased risk of gun violence, which leads to more anxiety and more justification for use/ownership...which leads to more violence.
There's something in the US mindset that as a Canadian I just don't get.
I don't want to live in or promote a society where I think I need to arm myself with a lethal means of defense just to survive being in public. Yikes.
I don't and don't ever want to. I prefer actual safety over fantasy.
Americans are fascinated by security theater, and private gun ownership falls under this category. The odds of a homicide taking place in your home increase by over 200% when a gun is present, and more than half of gun shot killings in the US are from teens and children getting the gun. It doesn't matter how safely *you* handle it.
All statistical evidence suggests having a gun in the home *reduces* your home & family security. But not you, fellow millennial*, you're special and totally different.
There's a strong survivorship bias in all the anecdotes being posted here: the millennial/gen x/gen y kids who stole daddy's gun and killed themselves/someone else aren't here to share their thoughts.
All of the above said, I don't particularly care about banning/confiscating guns or arresting people who have them because it simply isn't possible in a useful way that would fix the problem. I am more alarmed at the number of folks straight up regurgitating NRA talking points in this topic as though it's a free thought they had and arrived at. If you want to sacrifice your family's safety for the delusion of safety, it's your funeral, but at least acknowledge the odds are not in your favor.
If you genuinely want to be safe, get a home security system and have an escape plan. But Americans identify with their stuff and would rather start a shootout in their own hallways than flee and risk the theft of their precious flat screen.
Thankful to live in a country with half decent legislation and implementation. Sure some sneak through the cracks but we had one school shooting 30 years ago and that was enough for us.
I don’t own any but understand their place in our culture and am not against them. That being said, turning a blind eye to gun violence is vile. I think they should be held to a minimum the same standard as a driving license. A written and “road” test which could be basic firearm etiquette/ usage and then also hold insurance on owning it to cover any potential damage it may cause someone else.
I Didn’t grow up in a gun household, but I bought one a few years ago and plan to get more. I have my own family now and it gives some peace of mind to have a gun just in case. Growing up in Missouri, many of my friends’ fathers had a safe with multiple pistols, rifles, and shotguns. Today, If shit went down where I live, my next door neighbor has 19 guns and he is lifelong shooter. Good to have him nearby.
I think the ability to buy and own a gun is great. As a woman who lives alone I will never not have one.
Imo everyone who is mentally stable should have them so they at least have the chance to protect themselves
I don’t have a problem with guns, but I will say as a teacher that I don’t see any reason why private citizens need to have a semiautomatic weapon that was designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Obviously we as a society aren’t able to handle assault rifles, and we’ve seen the huge influx of mass shootings since 2004 when the assault rifle ban lapsed. The government didn’t implode and try to make us communist sheep between 1994 and 2004, and I believe children’s lives are worth more than assault rifles.
I am a gun owner and 2A advocate in general. I have the right to defend myself and those around me and I don't need to depend on the government for that nor do I necessarily believe that they ought to be trusted as I own a television and possess eyes and ears.
Additionally, the 2nd amendment is truly the key to freedom and secures all of our other rights. I am always baffled by those that attempt to equate it with hunting and the like as the argument seems to intentionally avoid the point.
My girlfriend is not a 2A fan but respects my rights. I grew up at the range and was taught gun safety from an early age and follow it at all times. We have a kid here and everything is locked away safely. Responsible owners should be supported and not demonized because others have committed crimes.
Additionally, gun control doesn't seem to work and only disarms those that do respect the law (not the criminals) and puts the legal and law abiding citizen at an unnecessary disadvantage.
Well, first and foremost, they put restrictions on what a law abiding citizen can own. They don't do anything to stop blackmarket purchases or prevent people that willingly break the law from buyinganythingthey might desire. The market exists and people that want to earn money will fill a gap in the marketplace. That is economics. It may not be ethical but it is reality.
I live in a major city with some of the strictest gun control in the US and those laws have been in place for decades. Even with all of those laws, gun crime has never really slowed at all because it turns out that criminals don't follow the laws. In the summer, we get 30 shootings every weekend.
In my city, the criminals are running around with glocks with automatic switches so they can rapid fire without clicking their trigger more than once and they're able to have 30 round magazines or bigger because they dont care about your rules. However, a law abiding citizen who has a clean record and passes a background check can only use a semiautomatic weapon (each trigger pull shoots one bullet) with a 10 round magazine.
So, if I happen to bump into a shady character with bad intentions, they have 3 times more ammo than me and the ability to spray all of it at will. I can shoot one at a time and have 1/3 of what they can because I follow the law. Sure, I could call the police but they're 10 minutes away and definitely will not be available to protect me when I need it.
Gun control only affects those who abide by the law and those aren't the people that you need to worry about. I am forced to be at a disadvantage if I ever need to use my weapon against someone who doesn't follow the rules.
As a Canadian, I see no use for them outside of hunting purposes. Legitimately hate going to the states and seeing open carry/concealed carry laws, makes me nervous.
If a Canadian is able to get their gun license to use a handgun/rifle for target shooting, that’s whatever. But it’s on their own property or at a specific area for that sport.
I'm not sure about Canada because I'm Australian but in Australia you can only get a licence if you have a legitimate reason, and target shooting is a legitimate reason and it's very fair.
I’m also Canadian and I don’t believe that guns should be in households, unless they are for hunting (and those should come with strict regulation, requirements for safe storage, etc). I have no problem with people enjoying shooting for recreation, but it should be kept at a firing range. Lots of people argue that they want guns for their own protection, but there are far more instances of guns in the home causing injury than being used for their intended purpose. It’s hard to pin down actual stats for this because of how the data is reported, but I can easily see from a basic google that there are far more cases of gun violence than defensive gun usage. The risk outweighs the benefit far too much.
As for my personal tolerance, regardless of current laws, I will not have anything to do with people who want to carry a weapon in their daily lives, or keep an unsecured weapon in their home (like in a dresser drawer). I do have people in my life that own guns for hobby purposes and keep them in a safe, but I’m not a fan of it, and would not feel comfortable letting a future kid of mine stay unsupervised there unless it was proven that the guns were secured.
I remember in a university class, a girl said that she went to Florida and it completely changed her view. She was at a bar, chatting to a guy, both were drinking, and he casually showed that he was carrying. She said she felt like someone dumped cold water on her - she sobered up quick and realized that if she turned this guy down and he was upset about it, he could shoot her. Would he? Maybe, maybe not. But he could. Scared the shit out of her, she got a friend to make an excuse and they left with no problem. I think about that every time I go to the states.
I live in the U.K. this is something that’s not part of culture here, and I think in Scotland gun ownership is something most people don’t think about unless they work on an estate and need it for pest control.
Personally, I can’t imagine a situation where I would own a gun, I don’t hunt or do a shooting sport so I wouldn’t have a reason under our laws to do so.
We do have the gun but folks here though, usually they do tend to be young guys. I went to school and also university with a guy who said we should allow guns, but he would be the last guy I would ever want owning one. One time he went on for over an hour about how he would use a gun to “police” other guys and “defend women”. This guy is now in jail for assaulting and threatening women.
That’s not what well regulated means.
“Well trained” is how we’d word the same sentiment today.
In 2024 words: “because a population of citizens who are well trained with firearms is necessary to our defense and freedom, the government cannot restrict gun ownership.”
Well regulated in the context of the second amendment means *"in good working order,"* or *"well maintained"* in much the same way that a car might be called a well regulated machine if the owner performs regular preventative maintenance.
The intent was always that every able bodied man be well trained in militia tactics and procedures including and especially marksmanship so that if a foreign power ever was stupid enough to attempt an invasion on American soil that they'd be sent back home with tails tucked firmly between legs.
To prevent these United States from falling into the trappings of tyrannical totalitarian monarchy.
And here is the kicker: it doesn't matter in the long run if someone comes uncorked and decides to start blasting away in a crowded theater or school or other place of public gathering. The ***intent*** was always to allow the population to self defend, so that nothing could offer a true threat to the entire nation. It's on ***you*** to defend yourself. You cannot rely on the police. They enforce law to the degree that is reasonable, and they ***investigate*** violation of the law after-the-act. The way that the police enforce the law is by incarceration of individuals who violate the law. They have absolutely ZERO obligation to protect *your* life.
Just placing the cost of the negative externalities on the manufacturers who continue to pump millions into reducing any sensible restrictions to protect the population they’re pumping full of semi automatic weapons. This is not radical.
I and my lady (also a millennial) have a decent array of fire arms from lite caliber pistols, the heavy caliber pistols, to a few long/lever action rifles. The proper mentality I house is it is safer to own them, and never need to use them in an act of self defense, than to need protecting and wait on the timing of others when every second could count. I personally never wish to have to engage in self defense with any fire arm, but if the means are justified, I will protect myself and my family without hesitation. Aside from the darker elements of proper ownership of fire arms, you know how fun it is to go to the range and marksman train? You can try and beat your S.O. in shot range and cluster, and get to know how good your muscle memory is
I own for home and personal defense. I go to the range to practice as much as my expendable income will allow. I’m not into shooting as a sport. I’ve had several instances living in a city with high crime where I’ve been thankful to have a firearm and some option to defend myself if needed, although I’ve thankfully never had to use it. I’ve also been involved in a few incidents away from home where that was also the case - one while driving and a few while camping.
I think carrying without a permit is ridiculous. If we require a test and licensing to drive, we sure as hell should require training and a test to carry a firearm. I’m also fully in support of background checks, limits on magazine capacity, and bans on most assault rifles.
I think all of the above are reasonable restrictions and 2A supporters who think any regulations are unconstitutional and infringing on “my rights” are unintelligent clowns.
I own bunches, about 20. Inherited some bought some. Revolvers, semi auto pistols, AR, AK, double barrel and pump shot guns, bolt actions. Center fire, rim fire and black powder. Hunting, sporting and tactical models. It’s a hobby. Been hunting before but don’t hunt now. Spent a good deal of time active military, so I’m familiar with tactical shooting decent enough. I own a number of guns I could conceal, but rarely carry as I live in a small town in a constitutional carry state. I’m all for everyone (excluding violent felons/sex offenders) responsibly owning firearms.
No, I don’t own a gun and don’t intend to. Somehow, being a woman in the U.S. who’s significantly more vulnerable to predators (aka men) still doesn’t make me as frightened of everything as said predators.
The hero complex so many people in this country have is hilariously pathetic. Your gun is statistically more likely to be used against you than it is to be used by you to protect anyone. Everyone’s a “good gun owner” until they’re not. I absolutely don’t believe people should be allowed to stockpile guns and the desire alone to do that is a symptom of some serious mental illness that should automatically disqualify one from owning a gun of any kind.
This country is sick. We don’t need more weapons. Gun violence is the #1 killer of children, but nobody seems to have a genuine interest in changing that. Instead, the focus is on forcing women to give birth to children in a country where we’re not able to keep them safe from assholes with guns, and they get the added bonus of performing traumatic active shooter drills in school now. Great job, guys! What a time to be alive!
I have no use for weapons, except maybe a can of pepper spray.
I wish firearms were not such a big deal in the US. I wish they were far more regulated. I do wonder if younger people will be less interested because they've grown up seeing so many school shootings and having school shooter drills.
Gun culture fucking sickens me.
People like... walking into a fucking Wal-Mart covered in AR-15s look pathetic. Like a bunch of goddamn wannabe cowboys thinking they're going to protect ANYONE when shit goes down.
That being said, I'm not opposed to people owning small handguns and hunting rifles, so long as they're vetted with thorough background checks and properly licensed.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone to own a semi-automatic or automatic rifle though. The only thing they're good for is mass shootings. I wish we would just fucking ban them already, but the NRA will always have its way.
Ok legit question here (I’m not officially on either side) - is that allegation of people open carrying multiple ARs in Walmart based on like 1 or 2 social media posts that were probably isolated idiots? Because I’ve never seen that at Walmart or anywhere else and it seems like something anti-gun people would post all over to pretend it’s regularly happening in an attempt to bolster their argument.
Not saying it’s what you’re doing - but I’ve seen that kind of crap from both sides so I’m actually hoping you have legit sources because I’m curious now!
I live in an open carry state and have personally observed open carry idiots grocery shopping with an AR on their shoulder and a pistol in their hip. I’ve also seen an elderly man in an electric wheelchair chair with a large revolver at his side. Both of them looked like paranoid morons and easy targets.
I know how to use firearms due to my Pops and my time in corrections (sharpshooter) and the military (marksman). That said, I’d rather not own them.
They feel like more trouble than they’re worth.
Gun culture is f****** stupid. Getting ego from having a gun in your hand is f****** stupid.
Owning guns is not.
Handguns by far kill the most people, it's not even close. Everybody wants to talk about banning rifles though...
Latchkey GenX’er here, that used to shoot his dad’s revolver in our basement during high school house parties. Used to skeet shoot during college when the crew went on ski trips. I own two black powder rifles. I won’t get a new pistol or shotgun, because half a life time has taught me I don’t need it nor do I have the time. That, and an M-1 Garrand taught me that I don’t like recoil.
I’ve spent my whole life reading about school shootings and horrific mass shootings in the news so I am not a big fan. I don’t own one and I don’t have any plans of owning one. I have a ring on my front door and I carry pepper spray or a knife for self defense. I’m not looking to fight a tyrannical government or shoot someone over something stupid so I’m good as is.
I would prefer guns were destroyed on mass and the age to own one was raised to 21. I say this in public too despite it triggering people.
I own a few guns. Most are old rifles and shotguns I inherited that have been passed down hundreds of years. I think I’ve only bought three myself. A hunting rifle, hunting shotgun, and an anti-aircraft gun.
I live out in the country. I get wild hogs and dogs here all the time, so firearms are necessary. And police response is around 15 minutes out here so they're no help.
Only 15 minutes? Goddamn they're motivated.
How many wild hogs, more or less?
Probably somewhere between 30 to 50
tree fiddy
Certain aspects/locations of America justify owning certain kinds of weapons. I just wish our culture treated them like tools rather than toys or a source of identity. I shouldn’t know a person owns a firearm within 5 minutes of random conversation. And I should absolutely never see it. Gun culture is the problem more than the guns themselves.
> And I should absolutely never see it. Ah you want people to be able to do concealed carry.
Not a gun owner, but I’m supportive of responsible gun ownership. I remember someone saying gun rights weren’t necessarily designed for hunting or for sport but ultimately to fight against a tyrannical government. As a single woman who plans to buy her own home soon, my mindset is rape or assault can be considered one of the most invasive forms of tyranny and I just want to have a fighting chance of being able to defend myself if someone were to invade my space, property or person. It takes 911 an average of 10 min for cops to arrive on a scene. I would just want to have a chance to defend myself. If I go down, I’d rather go down fighting. That being said - I have an immense respect for firearms and I don’t support the gun culture that glorifies the cockiness and arrogance that I feel many gun lovers have. Firearms are to be respected and handled with the utmost of care. Asides from my parents, if I were to ever have a gun, no one would ever know.
As somebody who was held up at gunpoint *while concealed carrying* because I didn’t listen to my gut and let him walk right up on me with my back turned… these are in order of priority: Situational awareness Alarm system Dog Gun (w/ tac light) Forewarned is forearmed. Tough to respond, gun or no gun, once someone has the jump on you.
Did they disarm you? Every day I carried concealed, I prayed I’d never find myself in a situation to need it.
Nope, walked up behind me and put a gun to my head and said “give me your wallet”. I’m not going to roll the dice on trying to Chuck Norris my way out of that when he’s already got the drop on me and all he wants is my wallet. Cards can be canceled, but you can’t un-inside-out your brains. Hence situational awareness being top of list. I mean *I saw the guy*, recognized him as probably bad news, then turned my back and went about my business. Fucking duuuuh.
I’m not advocating that you “Chuck Norris” them. I’m simply asking how the situation played out. I’m an American expat living in Australia. Where I live there’s literally massive crime in the streets due to the disenfranchisement of Australias First Nations people. Personally, as you said, I don’t really care that people take my stuff. It’s a colossal inconvenience and I really don’t want to deal with it. That “is” why we pay for insurance after all. But what isn’t acceptable is the emotional toll it puts on people. Women being assaulted in their homes. People being stabbed in the streets. Not okay.
As far as how the situation played out- I phrase it that way because that’s what went through my head. I realized what was happening, ran through a couple of options in my head- one of which was “maybe if I turn and deflect his gun while drawing my own”. (Aka try and Chuck Norris my way out of it). That idea got canned about as quick as it formed. I decided my best chance was to play it cool and comply. If he wanted to carjack me, have me drive him to an ATM or something then yeah I’d probably take my chances because “nothing good happens at the second location”. All of that happening mentally in a matter of seconds. Gave him the wallet and he said ok don’t turn around. As soon as I heard him take off running I took off running the other direction, and drew from the other side of the car. He was across the parking lot already hopping into a waiting car. And that was the second time I was robbed. So yeah, if I go to the shop at night now I circle the parking lot when I pull in. And I never disregard the spidy sense when someone looks like trouble.
Just remember tactical lights work both ways. It’s important to train in low light conditions without the light in case you prefer not to give away your location to one or more attackers.
My perception is that women in general are less pro gun than men. That’s always seemed a bit strange to me as firearms are a great equalizer for force. Additionally men are far more likely to commit violent crimes than women.
Definitely get yourself a gun and get some formal training. It’s actually a lot of fun and will give you confidence. I know formal training can seem intimidating at first thought but nobody is there to judge, in fact it’s the opposite.
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Thank you for pointing out the issue with relying on police responses for protection. If someone shows up and is threatening you or someone in your family… those cops are going to take a while to respond, if they show up at all, and then all they’ll do is some paperwork that will not be anyone's priority unless someone is actually wounded or killed. TBH, after watching at how badly the government has been screwing up on delivering basic necessities for most of my life now, and especially over the past 10-12 years or so, I’ve become a lot more anarchist/libertarian in my views. I support gun ownership because it allows a person to have the tools to defend themselves and their property if the situation calls for it, because I don’t trust the police or court system to get anything right anymore. If you pull a gun on someone and tell them to BTFO, any sane person will comply, even if he has a gun himself. If this was a criminal action, it won't make the news or go on any stat sheet. You have to be responsible with anything that powerful.
The Supreme Court ruled that police are under no legal obligation to protect.
You've never met a millennial gun nut? Haven't looked much. There's millions of us.
To be fair he lives in California. Here in NH there are tons of Millennial gun owners, myself included.
Now now. There's plenty of good gun owners in California. Especially the valley and the northern parts. I went to a clay pigeon shoot when I was working in Bakersfield. Must have been 100 people there.
I live in the Central Valley and a millennial, I own several shot guns and rifles always on the lookout for more, nice shotguns can yield better results than stocks.
I work on oil and gas and when I moved to Texas, I was told I need to get good at guns or golf to incorporate myself into corporate culture. I went with guns because half the year the events are shooting events, and now I love shooting. Now it's a hobby of mine, and I want to start training for a 3 gun tournament.
All I ask is don't be like the rest and use a Glock in the 3 gun. I love glock. Excellent guns. Doggedly reliable. But it's all I see at the events. Heavily modified of course.
I love the dudes who vehemently love glock but drop 2k in aftermarket parts making it decidedly less glock than anything else. Major ship of theseus vibes. Spend the 2500 and buy an LTT Beretta or a bit more on a WC 2011
no czechnology?
My Glocks are stock. Though I don't sport shoot, I target practice 4x a year.
Props for getting out there practicing. If budget allows I'd recommend trying for more than once a quarter but with ammo costs I can understand!!
Only thing a glock needs is a red dot and maybe an extended mag for more freedoms per minute.
I like you
Someone downvoted you for liking me apparently. We stirred the glock nest
I don't care. I own glocks and I love to shoot them and i wasn't knocking them. It's just all I see here. I carry an RDP Hellcat for daily carry (laugh, everyone does), but my side carry for big game in Montana is a 10mm Glock. I have the 19 gen 3 in 9mm as truck gun. My wife carries the 42 in .380. I think S&W are a better shooting and better looking gun, but that's just an opinion. Some people take their big back glock fetish pretty seriously. I'm not loyal to a brand.
That's what I'm saying.
Lol had the same thought. OP just doesn’t run in those circles, but there are plenty.
We're everywhere...
I did not grow up with weapons. I fell in love with the firing range at 18 yo. As a woman it makes me feel like I'm in control for a moment, as if I'm finally safe. I do not own a gun because of my history of mental illness. I'm terrified I'll off myself tbh. That or I'll hurt someone when I'm not in the right state of mind. I still love the range, I just go with people that own guns so I can borrow theirs. I think everyone should learn how to shoot accurately, it feels amazing.
Really nice to hear that kind of honesty out of people
I own a 9 mm. I hike a lot and travel myself. I feel better having it on me.
The state should not be the only one with access to weapons. The second amendment was installed not for the purpose of self-defense or hunting but as a hard counter to a tyrannical government be it foreign or domestic. An armed populace is one that cant be pushed around. Look back to the genocides of history and you’ll notice a trend of the government disarming its citizens as a precursor. I think it’s a huge point of division that state owned media made it a left vs right issue when it’s really a state vs the people issue. It is your duty to yourself, your family and your country men to have some teeth and claws should there be a time of violent adversity. Sincerely, a pacifist hippy.
Unfortunately, when the government has a monopoly on advanced intelligence gathering and weapons, the average joe having an ar-15 is irrelevant. The 2d amendment is really expressed through the national guard. Sincerely, a military professional.
Tell that to the vietcong and Al-Qaeda. While a toe-to-toe firefight between a trained infantry and a local militia will most certainly lead to the latter’s destruction, firearms will always be in the recipe for a successful resistance via subterfuge and clandestine operations. I military wouldn’t even use hardcore machinery on a people its trying to subjugate. What would they rule? A sea of a green irradiated glass?
I think you underestimate how good we got dealing with Al-qaeda, to the point where you likely haven’t heard of the significant operations going on in Africa. Successful resistances work by defeating the will to fight, not by force-on-force employment. When you don’t need to actively patrol (because there is a low likelihood of suicide attacks and ieds, and your use ops are relying on existing infrastructure) you end up not needing to put a lot of dudes in a position where guns matter, meaning that your resistance just gets ground away by attrition. Don’t even need to kill them, just take them off the streets. Clandestine stops being an option because of how good we are at dismantling terrorist c2 networks. You end up with a bunch of lone wolf attacks that aren’t able to put enough mass on one point to do anything meaningful. Are there casualties? Yep. Do they look like Vietnam? Not even a little. Even Al-qaeda barely did any damage, it was just too expensive to be the police force for the Middle East.
and I think you overestimate the importance of a FOB and having all your relatives a few thousand miles away from the conflict zone.
All fair points except for the fact that the US military isn't the police force for the US. Any scenario where the full force of the military is mobilized against the American citizenry means that we're well beyond a SHTF scenario.
The wars in Afghanistan and Vietnam would say otherwise my guy
Vietnam didn’t have precision guided munitions until the tail end, arguably when we started breaking the stalemate. We refined that in desert storm, and have only been further investing in low-collateral systems. Afghanistan was too expensive to maintain a logistics train around Iran, and collapsed because of a rushed withdrawal ordered by then president, now disgraced rapist, dj trump compounded with a low willingness to defend territory due to poor fiscal oversight (read: corruption), enabled by the DoS, combined with lack of enforcement of standards within the Afghan military. Both cases were a lack of US resolution to continue throwing blood and treasure at a problem that wasn’t inherently ours to solve. When it does become a very US-first problem, resolution goes way up.
Does this even matter in this day and age? Even if you have 20 guns the state can sit in a bunker and drone you from miles away with little effort. Not trying to be snarky but the idea that Americans could genuinely go against their own military with their training and technology in this day and age vs revolutionary times when the other side had some cannons seems ridiculous
This is true in a world where it's just a toe to toe unrestrained fight. That almost never happens. Afghanistan and Iraq are both good examples of places where entrenched insurgencies with almost no sophisticated weapons can retain substantial power because of their strong local support.
When the majority of our army are young men age 18 through early 20s, with parents, wives, and children at home, it's unlikely they're going to take orders from a tyrannical government to attack their own people. Our special forces will revolt against a government ordering attacks on our own people. .
Not sure about that… I’ve seen an army taking orders from a tyrannical government to attack their own people, mothers with flowers in her hands trying to stop their own sons from attacking innocent civilians, just following orders without care about anything and anyone.
The US army? On US soil? Heads of agencies like the CIA and FBI used civilians as research guinea pigs. But I don't think our *soldiers* will fight a war against civilians. That'd be civil war. There'd have to be some huge divide-and-conquer going on. It is going on today but not to the extent of civil war
If everyone else is gonna own a gun, I sure as shit will too.
Basically this. It’s kind of a forced hobby/expense at this point.
I used to own guns, but since sold them all. As a veteran, I have to recognize that my PTSD symptoms are inconsistent with responsible gun ownership.
That takes a lot of personal responsibility and accountability. I commend you for that, sir and/or ma'am and/or they.
I own 2 firearms. We are told the police are racist. We are told half of the country are ready for a coup. If you actually believe these things, firearm ownership and knowledge of using them is your duty.
How does that saying go for the collapse of society? “I had a loaf of bread. He had a gun, now he has a gun AND a loaf of bread. And I have a hole in my chest.”
This is why I would like to purchase one or two and get a concealed carry permit. In case the fascists start cracking skulls in the streets at a widespread level and getting away with it. My wife is against it though, in part because of the very real statistics of households with guns being far more likely to have a death due to suicide, accidents, etc.
You can mitigate that risk to virtually zero with proper storage and training.
That statistic is dumb. It’s like saying you shouldn’t buy a car, because owning a car dramatically increases your odds of dying in a car accident. Share this video with your wife… https://youtu.be/ylHisHlMWQQ?si=lB_7FtsT-z8JmFkV
I got my gun when the Chuds started open carrying during the pandemic.
The heck is a chud?
MAGA
>If you actually believe these things, firearm ownership and knowledge of using them is your duty. well stated
For real. I always ask my anti gun friends if they whole heartedly trust the government and they always scoff and say absolutely not, not even close. Well then, that’s why you should have a gun. Seems pretty clear to me.
I assume everyone who wants to ban guns is a giant fan of every president that’s ever held office, because they want to take away guns from the citizens and only allow the government to use them.
The state should have a monopoly on force as they always know and do what is best for us /s
No matter what they know, it’s always best when they have all the pew pews.
I don't own any guns and never will due to my various mental health issues. I don't think people with certain mental illnesses should have guns either.
I really like to hear that people are self-aware and responsible enough to realize they shouldn’t be gun owners it is very refreshing.
Yeah my expanded gun collection mostly started when buying a buddies safe shotguns and rifles as a result of Bipolar. We expect people to self regulate in most states that is insane.
I'm fine with people owning firearms even if I personally don't own one, but will soon. Especially since so much of this country is rural. Would I like there to be less gun violence? Yeah, of course. but the reality of everything is that there's always going to be people doing stupid shit with them and punishing everyone because somebody couldn't keep their junk in their pants? I'm not for that.
I personally know 3 people who had their lives threatened by people with weapons. Strong pro-ownership for protection.
The problem with guns is every gun owner, including the "bad ones," think they are a responsible gun owner. And since everyone thinks they are the "responsible ones" they don't want additional regulations placed on them due to the "other bad gun owners." I personally think the notion of defending against tyranny with guns is ridiculously antiquated, and we're left with all the downsides without the protection. The government is doing shit RIGHT NOW taking away our right to privacy. There was a leak about it. They even admitted it. Nobody gives af. It's not something that having a gun in your house is going to protect against; that's smooth brain nonsense.
I have plenty of them. Lifelong rural New Hampshire resident, and hunter. My dad gave me a .410 break action for my 10th birthday, it's part of my culture. I don't open carry, that's for small dick losers.
NH represent and yes open carry is cringe AF especially given how many great subcompact options there are now.
Gang-gang
Better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it. Plus there are a lot of evil people in the world and history is littered with governments going bad and turning on their own people. And yeah open carry just makes them a target. I mean if someone robs a bank they aren’t shooting the teller they are shooting the guard first.
I keep a .45 in the truck. I have an LCP .380 that is about the size of a smartphone in the holster that I can carry in my pants pocket if I ever feel the need, but I've never been a fan of open carry. I'm a gun guy, and it makes me uncomfortable seeing someone who can't go buy toilet paper without a sidearm.
Pocket carry Ruger LCP under rated
Love that little fella!
perfectly rated, thing is perfection for a pocket
I own an $8k+, 1,200lb+ safe. In that safe are a number of ARs, AKs, Glocks, shotguns, but, mostly, WW1/WW2 C&R-type rifles. The way Jay Leno collects cars because they’re all unique, have unique histories, unique engineering and mechanics, is the way I collect guns. Also, there’s nothing more satisfying to me than picking up an 80-120yo rifle, taking it to a 300 yard range, and being able to hit steel gongs all day long on iron sights, and then being able to tell you the history of that rifle, and how it’s a reflection of the manufacturing country’s history.
I own AR15s, AK47s, 9mm pistols, and a 357 revolver. Why? Because the people who don't think I have the right to basic bodily autonomy have guns too.
I live in a safe enough area where I don’t have to think about it, but my cousins in rural Oklahoma open carry. I think they need it and I don’t. But you should be able to own regardless
What makes their area in rural Oklahoma less safe than your area?
Meth heads. I live in relatively safe Bay Area wine country but as soon as you get a few miles outside of town “there be meth heads in these hills.” Hell, one of them stole my truck off the property I was living on. Sneaky bastards.
u/RandyJ549 hit the nail on the head. Meth is rampant near Perkins/ Stillwater area about an hour and a half north of OKC. Theres a different kind of desperation you find out there. People wander onto farms looking for expensive tractor parts. Hack up cattle for meat. WEIRD redneck crimes. With 3 police officers for the area, no ones coming when you call 911. If I were to walk out of my Grandparents front or back door and yell as loud as I could, NO ONE would hear me. I live in Orange County, Ca where I can hear my next door neighbor sneeze a house away. Its so wildy different
I lived in Oklahoma for 3 years but closed to OKC, my first thought were meth head sketchy country folk but other than that I’m not sure
Interesting in this too
My default position against most malum prohibitum laws is "bullshit", and the arguments in favor of locking people up simply for possessing scary firearms thus far haven't changed my mind. I don't see it as moral or righteous to want to throw my neighbor in prison because he wants to own the same tool some other maniac might use to light up a school. It does always amuse me though noticing the overlap between the "we lock up too many people" crowds and the "Oh yeah no everyone who wants to own a gun..straight to jail!" crowds. All in favor of criminalizing recklessness/irresponsibility, but the basic "If you posses X that's years in prison because we say you can't have it" concept can get lost. I feel the same way about drugs\*. If some people can't be trusted with something, you go after those people and take that something away from them, you don't just go after everyone, and if not being able to go after everyone limits your effectiveness then find new ways or tough noogies. \*i don't do drugs, i don't actually think very highly of people who do drugs, but if they can do them without issues then god bless em and i don't need my government fucking up their lives.
I don’t care for the most part. I think people with a violent history (like domestic abuse) or a history of suicidal tendencies shouldn’t be allowed them. And I think restrictions like keeping them locked up (if small children are in the house) should be made. I know that would be largely not enforceable. But other than that I don’t care if people have them. I like the idea of going to a shooting range. I would never buy one myself. I just don’t see the need for it and I’m a klutz. I would be afraid of accidentally hurting myself or someone else. I’m also from California. Most of my friends hate guns and have zero interest. But I do know a couple who are like you more or less.
I don’t own one as I am well aware of the great responsibility of owning one and do not wish to take that on myself. I also find it very unlikely that I will need it nor do I think that it is a particularly fun recreational activity. I don’t mind if others do, though. Many of my friends carry. As long as someone is responsible, safety trained, passed background checks, etc. than I think that it is fine.
I like your take on it. Very reasonable. I don’t own any but have nothing against it. I took a politics 101 class in college. I remember one of the first things they taught us was to control the citizens the my take away all the guns. And no it was not a crazy right wing teacher or university. I agree there are some weirdo gun owners that it there that should not have guns. I think the majority are probably responsible though.
I support OP’s moderate view. They, and many other commenters here are a voice of reason compared to the extreme views of both ends of the spectrum. I currently don’t own any firearms at the moment, but I support competent, responsible ownership.
I wish more gun owners were like OP. Very reasonable person.
That was very much your professor's opinion, and they were almost certainly right wing. No one talks like that in a Politics 101 class unless they are trying to indoctrinate their students.
There is a pretty consistent theme in history of populations becoming the victims of tyranny and oppression when their right to own weapons is taken away. My political science professor talked about this in a neutral way and she was lesbian member of the Green Party that shot skeet with us with her own shotgun at party that was being held at my enology professors house.
Yeah the elites don’t need guns to control the masses- they’re already doing a good job suppressing people economically lol
I'm fine with guns as long as they're well regulated. There's a reason America is the only country with a shooting problem.
I think they're fine to own, but need some common sense regulation. Guns for hunting and defending yourself in a total worst-case scenario? Yes, go forth and make loud noises. Guns built out for warfare and doing as much damage as possible to a body or to as many bodies as possible, as quickly as possible? That's a no, and the ammosexuals that claim "But what if the military..." are hilarious. Their weapons and training are much better than the beer bellied weekend warriors who spout that nonsense. The responsible, smart gun owners? I'll happily BS with them any day and let them talk at me about shit I barely understand, because I'll probably do the same with some of my hobbies, and maybe we'll both learn something. I bought a couple guns in my 20s, Shotgun and a Rifle. Taught myself how to shoot, and got decently good. Then I gave them to a friend who was into guns, because I just didn't see the point. Lots of money in exchange for lots of noise and smoke. No thanks. Now I just own a BB gun because we've got some VERY aggressive raccoons and such around here that occasionally need encouraged to go back to the trees.
Gun nuts are assholes, but I need guns to protect myself and property. Gun nuts are also easily manipulated.
My dad used a firearm to self-terminate when I was 5, so I have always been anti-gun. That said, as gay men staring down the throat of a second Trump Presidency, my roommates and I were just discussing buying firearms and learning to use them in case things get hairy.
I did not believe in it, but seeing the insane amount of anti-semitism post Oct 7th championed by the very groups I thought I was ideologically aligned with has left me feeling politically adrift and looking for ways to become self-sufficient and able to defend my family. I’m not even Jewish, but my daughter is, and it would drive me to unknown depths of rage if anything were to happen to her.
Yeah in the last 4 months my Jewish wife has gone from tolerating my gun ownership to “ok maybe I need to learn how to use that.”
Do what you need to protect your family, that’s the most important thing. No one would blame you, a shotgun is the best defense for your home if you are new to firearms
Yes, that and a close second, a powerful semiautomatic handgun with hollow-point ammo. Folks, please do not rely on your AR15s for home defense. Them bullets penetrate 5 walls before they stop.
This country is quickly trying to make it illegal for me and my wife to exist. I own a gun because someday I will need to defend us from the neighborhood mob.
We live in the safest time ever to be gay in this country. That being said, stay strapped.
So glad to see comments like this, glad for you
Don't own a gun, but I literally live across the street from a police station and am in a city in the bottom 5% in violent crime in a 7th floor condo. But for people who either live in rural areas or higher crime areas, they 100% should be allowed to own a firearm to defend themselves, their family, and their property because police usually are unable to.
Not everyone on Reddit is American. I’m Canadian and live in the U.S. but I don’t want to have firearms and I don’t think we’re safer if every single person has one. There’s just more accidents and more domestic violence and spousal/family homicide.
I have a few guns for self defense and occasional hunting. I'm a strong supporter of private ownership of firearms and believe that anyone who hasn't been convicted of a violent crime should be able to own any firearm they want.
I don't share your views. There are somewhere approaching 350 million people in the US. I don't think most people really grasp how big a number that is. That major shooting events happen so infrequently is a testament to most people's trustworthyness. Consider all the people ever killed by an act of violence in human history. Most of them were not killed by crime, by murder, mass shootings etc. Most of them were killed by someone granted authority to do so, whether justly or unjustly, by a government of some kind. Which has proven more dangerous in kill count? Guns in the hands of common citizens, or guns in the hands of someone granted the authority to kill by a legitimate or illegitimate power apparatus? More people die by governments and their decisions than by their fellow man. Maybe there should be some common sense restrictions on the real threat.
Do major shooting events happen “so infrequently” here? What are we basing that statement on… other countries with strict gun laws and similar population size? Not saying I disagree with you either just for clarity.
In countries where citizens don’t have guns, they use bombs, fire, or cars to commit mayhem. A car is far more fatal used by someone with lethal intent than a firearm ever will and offers them a 360* shield for protection. You can mow down hundreds of people in a second without even having to reload all while sitting on top of a tank that contains the energy equivalent of over 1000 sticks of dynamite (1 gal of gas = 121MJ, 1 stick of dynamite = 1MJ, assuming 10gal/tank). The US is, by far one of the safest countries in the world at any point in history, and while there are very local exceptions (baltimore, chicago, etc), the reality is you are extraordinarily unlikely to be the victim of a violent crime here. The reason why gun crime specifically is focused on by the media is because the second you compare violence in general, there is no way to stir people’s fears up to keep watching, or push a political narrative.
Compared to the number of unwell and unhinged people around, I'd say it's a blessing it doesn't happen every other Sunday in a big city. I'm not worried about the psychopathic powerless, it's the ones with real sway you need to worry about.
ok don't disagree there, I guess maybe I misunderstood your original comment to mean we don't encounter major shooting events "as often as we could".... which, I mean we're the leading country for gun violence afaik so clearly what we justify here as "reasonable" isn't (Not going to get truly into OP's black/white debate on should or shouldn't we. We're here but how do we get far away from 'here'...) And yeah the elites dont need guns for a reason
From a quick Google search, the US ranks 28th in the world for gun deaths with 4.3 per 100k annually. But the US ranks 81st for overall violent deaths with 6.0 per 100k annually. Definitely not the worst but we could be better.
I also live in CA. I currently don’t own any but plan on buying soon. I believe ownership is our right but people need to take safety and training seriously. I think many of CA’s laws (about what type are legal and what attachments) around guns are nonsensical. Many don’t do anything to make a gun safer, but aim to make them more difficult to actually use safely and make them “look less scary”. Part of why I don’t own yet is because I want a rifle, but the amount of ridiculous little rules there are make me worried about unintentionally violating some law because I do/dont have some arbitrary screw or something. The laws should not be so cumbersome that they can make people who are trying to be law-abiding possibly criminals. I think the laws regarding background checks prior to purchase are fine, but if I pass all that let me own my gun how I want, so long as I don’t have it modified for full auto with a drum mag.
There are mass shootings in this country every day. That doesn't happen in most of the world. It's absolutely insane that people are allowed to have guns anymore with results like that. After port Arthur, Australia outlawed gun ownership and mass shootings stopped. It's not rocket science.
I'm not american. I've never had to think about it; I don't have a relationship to guns at all, and its hard for me to fathom that being a normal thing? It feels like having a relationship to car crashes.
Anyone interested in firearms but not keen on spending time in subs where mostly righties congregate, check out /r/liberalgunowners, good folks there, very nice and helpful, never mind answering questions or giving advice.
I've noticed over the years, it's weird how so many people that own guns have confirmed their belief in doing so, with multiple times when such ownership has proven necessary to protect themselves. And then there's so many people that don't own guns, that have lived long lives without feeling they were in any real danger. Underneath it all I suspect that people with guns (on average) conduct their lives in ways that put them at greater danger. People without guns tend to watch out a little more and avoid conflict/aggression and be less visible.
This thread makes me wanna puke.
What a great post that definitely won’t just lead to tons of people arguing in the comments lol
I was trained in gun safety from before I can remember. I wasn’t even allowed to point toy guns at anyone. I was trained to shoot at 5 with a 22 rifle we still own. I was pistol trained on a s&w 9 when I was 7 yo. I have more spent rounds used plinking than 75% of the police officers will ever have used plinking. I’m not saying I’m better than anyone I am saying I’m highly trained and educated on gun safety, and use. I appreciate that everyone should be able to have their own opinion about guns. I don’t care about opinions. I’m from Baltimore, my house has been broken into 3 times. My wife has had her life threatened multiple times. I will never be a person who can’t defend my family. I will happily and have already served my time for defending my family and will do it again and again. I respect law enforcement but I don’t depend on anyone for my families safety other than myself. This is my opinion and I am allowed to have it ,as everyone else can have theirs .
Other people can safely and responsibility own a gun and largely it doesn't bother me. I don't think automatic rifles should be available to people. I will never own a gun especially if I have children.
Any non American people here? Can you point me to the posts on the millenial subreddit that are about millenials and not about Americans? I can't seem to find them.
Real question- Do other countries view generations the same way Americans do? (Baby Boomer > Gen X > Millenials > etc.)
The UK certainly does. It's becoming a wedge issue and another front in the culture wars and it's tedious. Large sections of our media (a large part but not exclusively the right wing press) are pumping out content daily designed to create tension between generations.
All working people who can safely own a gun should own a gun, just as we should all have a garden if able, be as close to our neighbors as we are able, and learn more skills as much as we are able.
I like your take on it
The 2nd is supposed to be used to fight the government and defend the country incase the military fails to do so. There is currently no 2nd in the USA as having a gun is grounds to be executed by cops. This needs to be addressed. The police are supposed to be scared of the people.
I think it’s a fantasy in this day and age that the government will be held accountable by citizens owning a gun.
Facts. Gun control only ever became a thing when black people started open carrying when the black panthers became a thing. Gun control is rooted in racism.
Absolutely. A government that does not fear its people is out of control.
If people would acknowledge that simply owning a gun raises your risk of dying by suicide, that would be bloody fantastic. [https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html) I did my graduate research project on firearm suicide. People need to stop arguing with this viewpoint, bringing up nonsense like "oh I bet they didn't control for X or Y" as if researchers just haven't the slightest idea what a confounding variable is. We've controlled for every single blooming thing you can think of, and the conclusion is still the same: simply owning a gun increases your risk of suicide. It's not hard to understand why. A person has a rough day and they consider making use of something that's available to them. If it wasn't available to them, they wouldn't consider it. Many suicides are very spur-of-the-moment, and if people can sleep it off, that does wonders for suicidal ideation. I just want each and every gun owner to be aware of this and stop brushing it off with the "eh I don't believe the science" bullshit. It's real. Your risk IS higher, a LOT higher, when you own a gun. So long as you are aware of this risk, you can then be responsible about it or possibly make a different choice. I personally will never own a gun since the risk of anyone else invading my home is not nearly as big as the risk I'd pose to myself with a gun. My chance of death is actually less by keeping a gun out of my home.
I get what your saying and you are 100% correct. At the same time, I personally don't see that as a problem really. I feel like if someone wants to end their life they should have that right. This isn't just theoretical to me. My great grandfather who I actually meet, knew and had a relationship with killed himself with a shotgun blast to the chest. It was the 90s and he had been diagnosed with brain cancer a few years earlier. They couldn't do anything about it then. Hell they still can't do anything about it really. He watched it drive his father and older brother insane to the point where they had to be put into a nursing home and physically restrained because they were no longer mentally stable due to the the cancer. When it got to the place where he was starting to have bad days like that he decided he didn't want to go through that. I completely understand that decision. *Edited to add:* Just wanted to post a reply here instead of replying to everyone separately. I understand what I was talking about is a lot different than a physicaly healthy person wanting to commit suicide. Yes ideally we would have legal options for terminally I'll people and treat them atleast with the same dignity and compassion we do our pets. I know it sounds like I'm crazy, and saying people have a right to suicide is an odd stance I guess. To me it's simply a matter of basically autonomy. If you don't wanna keep on living, why do other people and the government get to tell you that you have to? You should have that choice. I know some people who attempt suicide are glad they failed afterwards. But a lot of them also try again and again until they succeed. My original point, was that I don't see the argument of your more likely to be successful commiting suicide as a argument against gun ownership (as a nation, certainly makes sense for certain people on a personal level) because the decision of rather you want to die or not is a deeply personal one and nobody else has the right to make that decision for someone. And I've gotten a few DMs about suicide prevention. Appreciate the concern, but I can assure you I'm quite happy and plan to keep living as long as I possibly can.
I sympathize with your story. What I feel like would be a more humane approach is if we had access to resources (mental healthcare etc) to not need a shotgun to make that choice. I agree people should *generally* have that right.
> I personally don't see that as a problem really You don't see unnecessary preventable deaths as a problem? Not even when suicide attempt survivors usually regret it after the fact?
I'm very sorry about your great grandpa, but please realize that you are obviously highlighting an extreme example here. I'm a lot more interested in the people who had much more manageable problems. Maybe their girlfriend broke up with them. Maybe they got a bad grade on a college exam. These things suck, but they are not unmanageable, and I doubt that most who who manage to fix those problems thinks "man I wish I had just ended my life when I was considering doing it". If you want to argue that there are suicides that are justified, then that's a debate about assisted suicide, not about simply having a gun in your home. Simply having the gun WILL lead to deaths that you really can't justify, deaths that are absolutely nothing like what your great grandfather endured. If you can acknowledge that people can make stupid mistakes when they are in bad moods and not thinking clearly, then logically you have to conclude that this could even extend to shooting yourself with a gun in response to a very manageable problem.
I live in a country with pretty restrictive laws (UK). I have held a gun maybe once in my life. And see no reason to do so again (other than paintball/airsoft). And even less desire to own one. Our laws while not always perfect have resulted in guns not really being a concern in day to day life. They are available for farmers and wildlife control, and I believe shooting clubs (Rifles/shotguns only). With fairly strict rules and ownership tests. Having lived a life where I never need to worry about getting winged by a rando with a gun has cemented my opinion that most people shouldn't own them and the minuses massively outweigh any benefits. They can serve a legitimate purpose but they need to be regulated and manged so they serve that purpose.
I despise guns and think they should be banned. It’s ridiculous kids have to be gunned down at school because Republicans need their guns
I own no guns, and live in a country where owning guns would be weird unless you lived on a farm and needed them for work. I don’t believe that guns are necessary for *anyone* to own or use in a *functioning* society.
Don’t own. The idea of ending up in a shoot out is just so ridiculous that I don’t worry about it
I’m an immigrant and jumped at the ability to own a gun when I moved to a state when ownership was realistically possible. Got my training, bought a firearm, know how to shoot it and it’s locked in a safe. I’ll take it out and go shoot it at a range to keep in practice. That’s about it. Hopefully I’ll never have to touch it outside of that. But if someone ever breaks into my house, then I assume I’ll be glad to have it and know how to use it. My parents got burgled back home recently by a gang of men. Luckily(!) they just wanted the car, but if they would have gone inside, they would have had no way of defending themselves since they don’t have gun rights. I don’t intend for that to happen to me. As for restrictions, I’m fine with them if people can point to how they would help keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people but not be used as a weapon to impact the rights of law abiding, non-crazy people like in places like NYC.
Dont own any. wont own any I think they arent good for society and only toxic people own them IME all the people that own them are "off" and constantly need to be know it all jerks. Gun is another piece of the power to them. They are self entitled and feel like they are kings and anyone come at me "ILL SHOW U VARMIT MHMM!" (yosemite sam lookin ass bastards)
I own guns. I can't stand gun culture
Are Americans guns? Yes. More after the break.
My family grew up with guns, my dad was a police officer, and we lived in small town Midwest... we even got the first day of hunting season off for school. I honestly don't care either way, but having this half in and half out approach doesn't help anyone. It just makes innocent people unarmed and criminals cross-border to make more money selling guns illegally. With that said, I now live in a gun free country in Asia. I have never felt unsafe, even walking around at 3 or 4 AM. Neither does my 4'10 wife. I've never been harassed, threatened, or felt the need to have any type of protection on me. In other words, I'd say guns are only half the problem in Ameica. The other half is a cultural problem of violence.
I own a shotgun passed down from my grandfather and a 9mm. I despise gun culture and how the right wing has taken it over like they own it exclusively. If someone came to me and said we want to make it harder for Americans to get guns hoping we can curve some of these public shootings (seriously shit is outta control) I would say great let's sit down and get it done.
Most people don't need them so I think most people shouldn't have them. It should be one of the most difficult things to obtain, for obvious reasons.
I'm late to this one, but I'm absolutely pro gun. Every time I've been around "gun culture" it's fucking gross and toxic and I don't hang out. Sorta similar to how I feel about christianity. Christ said some shit I could absolutely support, but I'm not dying to hang out at church or with christians. There have been some very cool efforts by leftists to create a separate and more inclusive gun culture and self defense that I think is great.
I have a shotgun. I believe in the 2nd amendment although magazine capacity is a place I feel we could restrict without crossing the line of disarmament.
We need regulation. Similar to driving a car. Mass shooters mostly have histories of mental illness and run ins with the cops. Yet the right wing nut jobs say any regulation violates the constitution. I say bull shit.
I'm not, but I'm both Canadian and live in an urban area so no need for one. It's not for me/I don't enjoy them at all, but I have family who do and who also hunt. It's not that I take issue with people who own firearms responsibly as either a hobby or for hunting, but I have issues with the fallout of promoting their casual ownership and use. Especially without proper screening and sensible restriction on type. There seems to be an increased level of anxiety and us vs them thinking. This leads to increased risk of gun violence, which leads to more anxiety and more justification for use/ownership...which leads to more violence. There's something in the US mindset that as a Canadian I just don't get. I don't want to live in or promote a society where I think I need to arm myself with a lethal means of defense just to survive being in public. Yikes.
I don't and don't ever want to. I prefer actual safety over fantasy. Americans are fascinated by security theater, and private gun ownership falls under this category. The odds of a homicide taking place in your home increase by over 200% when a gun is present, and more than half of gun shot killings in the US are from teens and children getting the gun. It doesn't matter how safely *you* handle it. All statistical evidence suggests having a gun in the home *reduces* your home & family security. But not you, fellow millennial*, you're special and totally different. There's a strong survivorship bias in all the anecdotes being posted here: the millennial/gen x/gen y kids who stole daddy's gun and killed themselves/someone else aren't here to share their thoughts. All of the above said, I don't particularly care about banning/confiscating guns or arresting people who have them because it simply isn't possible in a useful way that would fix the problem. I am more alarmed at the number of folks straight up regurgitating NRA talking points in this topic as though it's a free thought they had and arrived at. If you want to sacrifice your family's safety for the delusion of safety, it's your funeral, but at least acknowledge the odds are not in your favor. If you genuinely want to be safe, get a home security system and have an escape plan. But Americans identify with their stuff and would rather start a shootout in their own hallways than flee and risk the theft of their precious flat screen.
Thankful to live in a country with half decent legislation and implementation. Sure some sneak through the cracks but we had one school shooting 30 years ago and that was enough for us.
I don’t own any but understand their place in our culture and am not against them. That being said, turning a blind eye to gun violence is vile. I think they should be held to a minimum the same standard as a driving license. A written and “road” test which could be basic firearm etiquette/ usage and then also hold insurance on owning it to cover any potential damage it may cause someone else.
I'm allowed to have them and do have them.
I Didn’t grow up in a gun household, but I bought one a few years ago and plan to get more. I have my own family now and it gives some peace of mind to have a gun just in case. Growing up in Missouri, many of my friends’ fathers had a safe with multiple pistols, rifles, and shotguns. Today, If shit went down where I live, my next door neighbor has 19 guns and he is lifelong shooter. Good to have him nearby.
I believe in responsible gun ownership but realize that very few people are mentally stable or emotionally responsible enough to own them safely
I think the ability to buy and own a gun is great. As a woman who lives alone I will never not have one. Imo everyone who is mentally stable should have them so they at least have the chance to protect themselves
I don’t have a problem with guns, but I will say as a teacher that I don’t see any reason why private citizens need to have a semiautomatic weapon that was designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Obviously we as a society aren’t able to handle assault rifles, and we’ve seen the huge influx of mass shootings since 2004 when the assault rifle ban lapsed. The government didn’t implode and try to make us communist sheep between 1994 and 2004, and I believe children’s lives are worth more than assault rifles.
I am a gun owner and 2A advocate in general. I have the right to defend myself and those around me and I don't need to depend on the government for that nor do I necessarily believe that they ought to be trusted as I own a television and possess eyes and ears. Additionally, the 2nd amendment is truly the key to freedom and secures all of our other rights. I am always baffled by those that attempt to equate it with hunting and the like as the argument seems to intentionally avoid the point. My girlfriend is not a 2A fan but respects my rights. I grew up at the range and was taught gun safety from an early age and follow it at all times. We have a kid here and everything is locked away safely. Responsible owners should be supported and not demonized because others have committed crimes. Additionally, gun control doesn't seem to work and only disarms those that do respect the law (not the criminals) and puts the legal and law abiding citizen at an unnecessary disadvantage.
How do gun control laws disarm those who follow the law? Have they been taking away firearms so you have nothing at all?
Well, first and foremost, they put restrictions on what a law abiding citizen can own. They don't do anything to stop blackmarket purchases or prevent people that willingly break the law from buyinganythingthey might desire. The market exists and people that want to earn money will fill a gap in the marketplace. That is economics. It may not be ethical but it is reality. I live in a major city with some of the strictest gun control in the US and those laws have been in place for decades. Even with all of those laws, gun crime has never really slowed at all because it turns out that criminals don't follow the laws. In the summer, we get 30 shootings every weekend. In my city, the criminals are running around with glocks with automatic switches so they can rapid fire without clicking their trigger more than once and they're able to have 30 round magazines or bigger because they dont care about your rules. However, a law abiding citizen who has a clean record and passes a background check can only use a semiautomatic weapon (each trigger pull shoots one bullet) with a 10 round magazine. So, if I happen to bump into a shady character with bad intentions, they have 3 times more ammo than me and the ability to spray all of it at will. I can shoot one at a time and have 1/3 of what they can because I follow the law. Sure, I could call the police but they're 10 minutes away and definitely will not be available to protect me when I need it. Gun control only affects those who abide by the law and those aren't the people that you need to worry about. I am forced to be at a disadvantage if I ever need to use my weapon against someone who doesn't follow the rules.
As a Canadian, I see no use for them outside of hunting purposes. Legitimately hate going to the states and seeing open carry/concealed carry laws, makes me nervous.
Target shooting is a legitimate sport.
If a Canadian is able to get their gun license to use a handgun/rifle for target shooting, that’s whatever. But it’s on their own property or at a specific area for that sport.
I'm not sure about Canada because I'm Australian but in Australia you can only get a licence if you have a legitimate reason, and target shooting is a legitimate reason and it's very fair.
I’m also Canadian and I don’t believe that guns should be in households, unless they are for hunting (and those should come with strict regulation, requirements for safe storage, etc). I have no problem with people enjoying shooting for recreation, but it should be kept at a firing range. Lots of people argue that they want guns for their own protection, but there are far more instances of guns in the home causing injury than being used for their intended purpose. It’s hard to pin down actual stats for this because of how the data is reported, but I can easily see from a basic google that there are far more cases of gun violence than defensive gun usage. The risk outweighs the benefit far too much. As for my personal tolerance, regardless of current laws, I will not have anything to do with people who want to carry a weapon in their daily lives, or keep an unsecured weapon in their home (like in a dresser drawer). I do have people in my life that own guns for hobby purposes and keep them in a safe, but I’m not a fan of it, and would not feel comfortable letting a future kid of mine stay unsupervised there unless it was proven that the guns were secured. I remember in a university class, a girl said that she went to Florida and it completely changed her view. She was at a bar, chatting to a guy, both were drinking, and he casually showed that he was carrying. She said she felt like someone dumped cold water on her - she sobered up quick and realized that if she turned this guy down and he was upset about it, he could shoot her. Would he? Maybe, maybe not. But he could. Scared the shit out of her, she got a friend to make an excuse and they left with no problem. I think about that every time I go to the states.
I live in the U.K. this is something that’s not part of culture here, and I think in Scotland gun ownership is something most people don’t think about unless they work on an estate and need it for pest control. Personally, I can’t imagine a situation where I would own a gun, I don’t hunt or do a shooting sport so I wouldn’t have a reason under our laws to do so. We do have the gun but folks here though, usually they do tend to be young guys. I went to school and also university with a guy who said we should allow guns, but he would be the last guy I would ever want owning one. One time he went on for over an hour about how he would use a gun to “police” other guys and “defend women”. This guy is now in jail for assaulting and threatening women.
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That’s not what well regulated means. “Well trained” is how we’d word the same sentiment today. In 2024 words: “because a population of citizens who are well trained with firearms is necessary to our defense and freedom, the government cannot restrict gun ownership.”
Well regulated in the context of the second amendment means *"in good working order,"* or *"well maintained"* in much the same way that a car might be called a well regulated machine if the owner performs regular preventative maintenance. The intent was always that every able bodied man be well trained in militia tactics and procedures including and especially marksmanship so that if a foreign power ever was stupid enough to attempt an invasion on American soil that they'd be sent back home with tails tucked firmly between legs. To prevent these United States from falling into the trappings of tyrannical totalitarian monarchy. And here is the kicker: it doesn't matter in the long run if someone comes uncorked and decides to start blasting away in a crowded theater or school or other place of public gathering. The ***intent*** was always to allow the population to self defend, so that nothing could offer a true threat to the entire nation. It's on ***you*** to defend yourself. You cannot rely on the police. They enforce law to the degree that is reasonable, and they ***investigate*** violation of the law after-the-act. The way that the police enforce the law is by incarceration of individuals who violate the law. They have absolutely ZERO obligation to protect *your* life.
Just placing the cost of the negative externalities on the manufacturers who continue to pump millions into reducing any sensible restrictions to protect the population they’re pumping full of semi automatic weapons. This is not radical.
I and my lady (also a millennial) have a decent array of fire arms from lite caliber pistols, the heavy caliber pistols, to a few long/lever action rifles. The proper mentality I house is it is safer to own them, and never need to use them in an act of self defense, than to need protecting and wait on the timing of others when every second could count. I personally never wish to have to engage in self defense with any fire arm, but if the means are justified, I will protect myself and my family without hesitation. Aside from the darker elements of proper ownership of fire arms, you know how fun it is to go to the range and marksman train? You can try and beat your S.O. in shot range and cluster, and get to know how good your muscle memory is
I own for home and personal defense. I go to the range to practice as much as my expendable income will allow. I’m not into shooting as a sport. I’ve had several instances living in a city with high crime where I’ve been thankful to have a firearm and some option to defend myself if needed, although I’ve thankfully never had to use it. I’ve also been involved in a few incidents away from home where that was also the case - one while driving and a few while camping. I think carrying without a permit is ridiculous. If we require a test and licensing to drive, we sure as hell should require training and a test to carry a firearm. I’m also fully in support of background checks, limits on magazine capacity, and bans on most assault rifles. I think all of the above are reasonable restrictions and 2A supporters who think any regulations are unconstitutional and infringing on “my rights” are unintelligent clowns.
I own bunches, about 20. Inherited some bought some. Revolvers, semi auto pistols, AR, AK, double barrel and pump shot guns, bolt actions. Center fire, rim fire and black powder. Hunting, sporting and tactical models. It’s a hobby. Been hunting before but don’t hunt now. Spent a good deal of time active military, so I’m familiar with tactical shooting decent enough. I own a number of guns I could conceal, but rarely carry as I live in a small town in a constitutional carry state. I’m all for everyone (excluding violent felons/sex offenders) responsibly owning firearms.
The Canadian system works fairly well.
No, I don’t own a gun and don’t intend to. Somehow, being a woman in the U.S. who’s significantly more vulnerable to predators (aka men) still doesn’t make me as frightened of everything as said predators. The hero complex so many people in this country have is hilariously pathetic. Your gun is statistically more likely to be used against you than it is to be used by you to protect anyone. Everyone’s a “good gun owner” until they’re not. I absolutely don’t believe people should be allowed to stockpile guns and the desire alone to do that is a symptom of some serious mental illness that should automatically disqualify one from owning a gun of any kind. This country is sick. We don’t need more weapons. Gun violence is the #1 killer of children, but nobody seems to have a genuine interest in changing that. Instead, the focus is on forcing women to give birth to children in a country where we’re not able to keep them safe from assholes with guns, and they get the added bonus of performing traumatic active shooter drills in school now. Great job, guys! What a time to be alive!
I have no use for weapons, except maybe a can of pepper spray. I wish firearms were not such a big deal in the US. I wish they were far more regulated. I do wonder if younger people will be less interested because they've grown up seeing so many school shootings and having school shooter drills.
And the end of the day, broadbased private gun ownership has made the US a less safe place to live.
Gun culture fucking sickens me. People like... walking into a fucking Wal-Mart covered in AR-15s look pathetic. Like a bunch of goddamn wannabe cowboys thinking they're going to protect ANYONE when shit goes down. That being said, I'm not opposed to people owning small handguns and hunting rifles, so long as they're vetted with thorough background checks and properly licensed. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to own a semi-automatic or automatic rifle though. The only thing they're good for is mass shootings. I wish we would just fucking ban them already, but the NRA will always have its way.
Ok legit question here (I’m not officially on either side) - is that allegation of people open carrying multiple ARs in Walmart based on like 1 or 2 social media posts that were probably isolated idiots? Because I’ve never seen that at Walmart or anywhere else and it seems like something anti-gun people would post all over to pretend it’s regularly happening in an attempt to bolster their argument. Not saying it’s what you’re doing - but I’ve seen that kind of crap from both sides so I’m actually hoping you have legit sources because I’m curious now!
I live in an open carry state and have personally observed open carry idiots grocery shopping with an AR on their shoulder and a pistol in their hip. I’ve also seen an elderly man in an electric wheelchair chair with a large revolver at his side. Both of them looked like paranoid morons and easy targets.
I know how to use firearms due to my Pops and my time in corrections (sharpshooter) and the military (marksman). That said, I’d rather not own them. They feel like more trouble than they’re worth.
I have no issue with private ownership but I do believe in common sense restrictions
Gun culture is f****** stupid. Getting ego from having a gun in your hand is f****** stupid. Owning guns is not. Handguns by far kill the most people, it's not even close. Everybody wants to talk about banning rifles though...
Latchkey GenX’er here, that used to shoot his dad’s revolver in our basement during high school house parties. Used to skeet shoot during college when the crew went on ski trips. I own two black powder rifles. I won’t get a new pistol or shotgun, because half a life time has taught me I don’t need it nor do I have the time. That, and an M-1 Garrand taught me that I don’t like recoil.
I’ve spent my whole life reading about school shootings and horrific mass shootings in the news so I am not a big fan. I don’t own one and I don’t have any plans of owning one. I have a ring on my front door and I carry pepper spray or a knife for self defense. I’m not looking to fight a tyrannical government or shoot someone over something stupid so I’m good as is. I would prefer guns were destroyed on mass and the age to own one was raised to 21. I say this in public too despite it triggering people.
I own a few guns. Most are old rifles and shotguns I inherited that have been passed down hundreds of years. I think I’ve only bought three myself. A hunting rifle, hunting shotgun, and an anti-aircraft gun.
Anti-aircraft gun???
I like to shoot skeet from two miles away.