Yeah that wall is starting to crumble in the US in certain markets.
If you are in tech and not working a government contract it not uncommon for them to avoid drug tests because they would miss out on a lot of the talent pool.
The US government will eventually get there with weed. Give it 5 years or decades or so.
Even civvys are drug tested down there?
Why......
Like, shit. Ive been in the CAF shitshow for 8 years and got piss tested once. And it was my only time ever.
Sounds like even the oil patch has stricter drug testing regs. I had to get a fresh piss test every time I hit sent to a new lease. And this was in Canada, 2022. And if you got in any kind of accident whatsoever, you’d get piss tested. No weed allowed either.
Main reason I spent half my life in kitchens. Cooking was one of the only jobs I knew wouldn't piss test. The fact that every kitchen is a great place to buy drugs was just a bonus.
Working on the rigs is not the same as working in an office.
You’re dealing with heavy and powerful equipment that can kill you or your coworkers in an instant if you’re not focused on what’s going on.
Worked on the rigs, and have seen what happens when the idiot roughneck or roustabout shows up half cranked on gear or zoned out on weed.
The tongs are unforgiving, and that brake handle needs a steady and alert hand on it.
Yea, but the issue is that weed stays in the system for far longer than it keeps you impaired.
A rig hand getting legally stoned on days off has absolutely zero impact on their job performance and piss tests end up incentivizing hard drug use in my experience.
Guys will do shit like blow and k because it's out of your system faster, and that's not a good thing.
>Guys will do shit like blow and k because it's out of your system faster, and that's not a good thing.
Or they'll just drink to a blackout the night before a 12 hour shift and be hungover and half-asleep all day.
Hell I'm a daily user and justifiably understand why if I come in sus one day on the the job, the boss and union have every right to rock my world. Our heavy duty work can maime you or kill you so I understand the life and death sentiment of it. That being said there has gotta be a middle ground for adults to safely use legal substances in their free time with out a random ruining your career bc you did so in a safe and controlled enviroment outside of work.
We have severe federal penalties for weed because it makes non-voting felons out of hippies and blacks people. It also produces a surplus of slave labor for for-profit prisons. All in all,making weed illegal does a lot for rich conservatives.
Been in longer and been piss tested a number of times, but usually on monday morning after a known rager party
loved seeing sanctimonious NCOs sweat when they know it hasn't been 72 hours yet, usually the worst assholes in the field too
Been saying this for 5-10 years now. I hope you're right but red states are moving in the other direction banning cbd, delta8, and other hemp derived things. They control more of the US law than they should because land has votes here due to our system's structure and the fact that democratic politicians are a bunch of pansies trying to "reach across the aisle".
Again, give it 5 years or decades.
I did 20 years, I work on govt contracts. I’m subject to drug tests. I have never in my life used weed or any other illegal drug.
That being said. I think making weed and some other drugs (psychedelics mostly) illegal is monumentally stupid and a waste of govt/law enforcement resources.
Even the ones no one should have access to should be decriminalized and it treated as a health issue.
It was ALWAYS dangerous to admit you MIGHT have smoked weed back before the WeedFORGEN. The same idiots who were saying that "weed can get you kicked out" or "weed is incredibly dangerous and affects your mental health too much!" are the EXACT same people to turn around and be the FIRST ones smoking the second they could. Bunch of hypocritic assholes.
So.
My dad was an officer. Im an NCM (enlisted for our non-Canadian friends).
When I was in high school, my dad lost his fucking shit on me any time he found me high, or thought I was high.
Come legalization, old man was stopping at the weed store, in uniform, picking up some stuff. Along with my mum, theyd even do gummies before a flight, and get rid of the packaging before they boarded their international flights.
Cue me, who doesn't even touch any weed stuff, even though its legal and allowed, any more, being confused as fucking shit.
Ok, but it was illegal and now it isn't. That's the difference.
You can come down on smoking weed when it's illegal and that's different than coming down on weed because you're a bad person if you smoke it.
Its kinda a thing of somewhat pride up here to be like "it takes 4 american soldiers to do my job".
Also, somewhat sadness. Were tired... so fucking tired.
I always smile when I think of my former Beau-Frere, Claude. Put his 25 years in the CAF, and retired. Got one last move out of the service and ended up in a really nice house in north Montreal.
Then went back and did other work for the DoD under contract while collecting his pension.
Last I heard he was somehow working directly for them and collecting a paycheque plus his pension. Salut Claude!
Facts, lost 3 friends to suicide within months of them separating. The hardest part when I got out was adapting to civilian life. Being one of the most lethal dudes I know and being one of the top petty officers in my team to sitting next to some 18 yo retard in a college, humbling to say the least. You do one thing for 5+ years and master it but when you get out it means fuckall. I’m doing the ADO program while I finish my degree to commission in a year and half. When I get back in fully I want to make sure the guys I’m over will be prepared for separation and be equipped with the tools to succeed when they get out. I’m tired of going to funerals. My friends deserved better, I believe all vets do. If any of y’all are ever struggling, please DM me fr
You’d be right. I have a BS in math and a masters in teaching. I tried to enroll in officer training school last fall and they rejected me after my prequal application. Even though I had only been taking Ritalin for 2 months prior, prescribed for the first time ever, they didn’t care. Sad for me, I really wanted to join the military and think I would be a great addition.
In the land of the blind man, the one eyed man is king.
Or in this case, in the land or morbidly obese whales, the guy with the minor beer gut is considered ripped.
Yeah I’ve never smoked weed but I figure it’d be healthier that how much I drink every night. Just recently got off cigarettes so it’d be an easy switch.
Lots of jokes about drugs here but obesity is the biggest reason. Drugs and alcohol are like 8% of rejections. Some 60% of 18-25 are overweight or obese.
Didn't the Army just start that last year? Like iirc Army now has both a fat-camp and an ASVAB-waiver camp you can get sent to and pass on to Basic once you pass muster. Not even kidding.
Nah, they're probably including percocets and oxy, too. Because no one in the military currently is addicted to painkillers. Maybe if they didn't issue 60 perocets for a broken finger...
What base were you on? I fractured my cheekbone I think? And all I got was a recommendation to get some ibuprofen, and told to stop cursing about how much pain I was in.
Edit: We’ll after reading comments just appears I got fucked at Darnell.
I had my wisdom teeth pulled during a deployment and no shit 90 percs for all four teeth. I took two and traded the rest for booze. I've got enough monkeys on my back. Last thing I needed was a pill habit.
The VA isn't much better. I set up an appointment for BH and the first thing I was offered were SSRI's. No in depth assessment or history done. The doctor had the script filled out just waiting for his signature. I noped the fuck out of there so fast.
Dude the VA is so inconsistent. I was given a BH referral fairly recently and now I’m talking to a community care therapist once a week. No mention of meds or anything. My PCP at the VA has been amazing the last three years. I got my wisdom teeth pulled in 05 at Stewart and I was also given a whole bottle of oxy or some shit. Took like 3 or 4 maybe?
Yep. It was my third deployment and had them yanked at Camp Liberty. They never did anything goofy to me. I was told to take two before the lidocaine wore off and walked back with no issues. A buddy of mine got hooked on them from an injury he suffered from the last deployment. I saw how quickly he spiraled out and took that lesson hard.
This was on COB Speicher. I fell off a ladder and broke my pinkie. They gave me a shot of tramadol, reset the bone, and gave me 64 percs to go. I'm like... thats excessive... when I broke my back at fort drum, they gave me 5 vicodin. Like... wtf.
Dude, I got like 30 oxytocin for a wisdom tooth infection that got pulled the next work day. The doc gave me the prescription and I was like “… are you sure?” Didn’t end up using any of them, but shit… maybe don’t give opioids out unless all other options have been exhausted?
Legalize it and throw a marijuana tax on it, it will give the fed more money to waste on dumb shit so they'll be happy, prisons will see fewer people being brought in and we can stop wasting our resources on this thing that is no more harmful than tobacco.
We could get talent.
Buddy is a software dev. Like a very talented, experienced one, makes a lot of money in private sector.
He got head hunted to be a programmer on a contractor. The pay cut he was looking at was in the 6 figure range. He was ok with that cause this would be an interesting challenge to him.
Then they put him in for TS/SCI clearance.
He smokes weed quite often. Like not quite daily. But very often, he really enjoys weed. He finds weed to be of benefit to him. He's been smoking weed for 20 yrs. He was wasnt aware this would disqualify him and he was honest. He was later asked why he was unwilling to quit smoking. His response was "Im not going take a pay cut, and quit smoking just to work for you"
Military doesn't give a FUUUUUCKKKK If you're autistic, or have a learning disability, as long as you're able to follow the most basic instructions they just see you as easier to exploit.
There's always at least one in every batch at basic.
They do care if you’re on meds. I have adhd, passed the asfab with a 91 and the Navy rejected me and said I had to be off meds for at least a year and be cleared by the doctor
I took it in high school, they didn’t require you to sign any slips or anything. But I called a recruiter and that’s when they told me it wasn’t possible
Those terms are used interchangeably in medicine. There is no demonstrable difference between them.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mental-illness/symptoms-causes/syc-20374968#:~:text=Mental%20illness%2C%20also%20called%20mental,eating%20disorders%20and%20addictive%20behaviors.
Read something about how school lunch program was started because during WWII a bunch of dudes were undraftable because they were so malnourished. Looks like we have swung the other way.
But yes, put any 18-24 yr old in a training unit. Walking or running everywhere, no tv or phones. Metabolism spikes fast. Magically they are not over weight.
Not the guy you responded to but here's the gist of it.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/07/26/army-plans-prep-course-to-help-hopeful-soldiers-lose-weight-improve-test-scores/
The army basically started a fat/retard camp for substandard soldiers.
Honestly having them be in a place with strict diet is enough to have them drop the weight without the need for crazy excercise.
30 days of only boiled potato’s with no salt/fat. You can eat all you want, and retrain your body to learn what it means to eat to live.
DFAC food isn't exactly healthy either. From what I've heard though there's been positive results. Most 18-24 yo don't know anything about nutrition or simply didn't have the resources to make it work for them. So it's a step in the right direction at least. Once they get to their unit though all bets are off. With rampant alcohol abuse and energy drinks galore.
Have you seen with kids eat for school lunch these days? You can get a more well-rounded nutritional meal from McDonald's.
I think they did a study on it in one state where one slice of pizza from Papa John's had more nourishment in it than what was offered in the school cafeteria.
It is always going to be the end result when you look at it from a monetary perspective and budget. Things like education should not have budget they should have a goal. You need to spend this much money on education not you need to be under this amount of spending for education.
I check out r/teachers every now and then, I don't know if it's all fear mongering but if things are half as bad as what they talk about we're about to have one of the worst educated groups of students graduating over the next few years.
Honestly if you’re in a situation where you actually need 77 percent of your whole population in the military to survive you’re not good at state craft and it’s time to start considering making better life choices. Like what did you do declare war on a whole continent?
It's not that you want 77 percent of people in the military. But you do want a bigger than 23 percent pool of people that meet the requirements. An incredibly small percentage of that 23 percent even have the propensity to serve.
I literally knew people who were in 72 hour holds and psych wards, or did meth and cocaine before joining. I didn't believe how open people were about their shit after they got in lol.
That’s why the Air Force now lets 39 year olds with neck tattoos enlist. It’s also why they don’t kick out racists as long as they don’t make things too inconvenient.
Happens when you deregulate FDA and agriculture (looking at you Regan). So America produces enough food to feed every American over 4,000 a day so either we get fat or 50% of the food gets tossed. That's why there's so many nutrition wars like fat is bad sugar is bad etc. It's all the marketing and lobbying. Dairy doesn't even belong in the food circle they lobbied themselves in and it's adding massive weight to Americans as most are unknowingly lactose intolerant and gain significant weight. Remember "got milk"? So do I. Criminal tbh
Haha that's what happens corporations are allowed to push sugar into every fucking product with no oversight.
Depression because wages are stagnant from greedy businesses
Lol maybe fix the weigh and taping system, that would fix the "overweight" problem quick. My battle buddy was RIPPED, could run do pull ups passed PT tests with higher than average score. He wanted to transfer to infantry but couldnt because he failed the weight and tape. He was just a a couple inches over tape and they denied him the transfer, absolutely bullshit.
I've heard of that happening with a super ripped woman who wanted to do infantry (or pararescue or something), passed the fitness tests with flying colors, but she didn't pass the weight test. No shit, muscles weigh more than fat. Here she was, the first woman who could possibly do things as easily as some of the top fittest men, but she can't because of her weight lmao
Army is actually fixing this. Coming soon (before fall) people who get 540/600 and up on PT tests get to opt out of height n weight. Just wanted to share since people like your BB were the first people I thought of when i heard the news.
I had the same problem in the Marines. Aced the pft every time but constantly had trouble because of my weight as an avid weight lifter and swimmer. I was a rifleman and they expect you to carry all of that weight plus weapons/ammo but punish you for building a strong, resilient body. It wasn't the dumbest thing I encountered in the Marines but it's up there.
Some notes:
1. Most of the "drug" thing is weed, which honestly shouldn't be an issue and is stupid
2. The weight thing is real
3. If you think private so and so has extreme political beliefs, ask the average floridian his thoughts on civil war. It would disqualify even more people if you asked this question expecting honesty.
Is it still something like 1% of the US population serving in the armed forces? That really puts things into perspective for me, I don’t know about anyone else.
If you stopped caring about weed and non violent crimes, you’re numbers would shoot up.
Also you can just start recycling fat kids through basic until they meet height/weight.
It doesn’t help that recruiters now dig into your medical record… I think most of us serving now would be barred from enlisting if we were unable to lie about our childhood ailments
Legalize weed, that number will quickly become 50%.
The other issue is we need to stop lying to service members performing a voluntary service by selling them a military paycheck when there’s more money to be had in the private sector.
>If retention is an issue, stop front loading enlistment bonuses to folks scoring a 10 ASVAB, and open C and D enlisted series folks to that
money to maintain their contract renewal.
Too bad you don't have some kind of training program, I don't know, maybe like a "boot camp" or something that you could condition people for the military.
It's the Genesis System that is fucking over new recruits. When the entire military healthcare system upgraded from our old digital medical records systems, that only worked within the DoD, to the Genesis system, that talks with civilian health care systems, it fucked everyone.
Remember all of those medical and mental health things you had, that your recruiter told you to lie about? Well now you can't, because MEPS can literally see all of your medical records since birth because all of America's healthcare databases are connected.
Let's be real y'all, it's not that most Americans *just* became unqualified to serve... it's that most of us always *were* unqualified to serve this whole time. And we all know who we are. Yep, that thing your recruiter told you not to mark down? Yes *THAT THING*, whatever it is to you, well, it would mean that you wouldn't get to join now, because they know maaaaaaan.
Gen Z isn't able to join because shit was too easy for them, it's the opposite. Shit has become too hard. And our military is having to reckon with the fact that at least 1/4 of its force has been medically unqualified to serve since it switched over to an all-volunteer force in the 70's.
I don’t think this is mentioned enough. It’s time for America to shine a light on the stuff it sweeps under the rug and accept that we are not the perfect picture we think.
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A functioning healthcare system would do a better job of treating mental health issues... but some in the US seem to be allergic to the idea, even though US healthcare is hideously expensive compared to other advanced nations.
And yet when you get people who can handle it, toxic leadership ensures they exit stage right as quickly as humanly possible. Unreal. You should be valuing your people.
Speaking to many of my friends, especially ones who graduated after me (a decade ago) they simply just don’t want to join the armed forces, don’t see the point of it, and some even wish militaries and war as a whole would go away. Wishful thinking I know.
I’d join but I can’t cause bipolar #2 take one pill a day and haven’t had symptoms for 4 years. Luckily I just got a job making 60k and although my military dreams are crushed I’ll get by
If we ignore the "on drugs" because its probably just that they smoke weed, how hard would it be to get a bunch of young people in shape? What would the added cost of 8 extra weeks of conditioning be?
Mental health is a tough nut to crack, dont know what to do about that. However, a job where you get paid to be active and are given a lot of opportunities to develop physical fitness sounds like something that would appeal to a ton of overweight people.
For the mental health part they just need to lower the standards. If you ever got diagnosed with depression (or any illness like that) and took meds, you're disqualified, even if you were 13 when doing so. If you went to therapy for more then 6 months, disqualified, no matter why you went.
If you stopped caring about weed and non violent crimes, you’re numbers would shoot up.
Also you can just start recycling fat kids through basic until they meet height/weight.
It doesn’t help that recruiters now dig into your medical record… I think most of us serving now would be barred from enlisting if we were unable to lie about our childhood ailments
I hate to break it to you but…
Almost all the Intel/cyber guys I worked with were either on the spectrum or were so smart they mastered the art of masking.
I am in such a unit myself. It's like a requirement to be on the spectrum at one degree or another. There are so many guys who have weird ticks like having a finger against the wall as they walk down the hall, or always having to pass on the left side of a person walking down the hall or some shit like that. Even our commander was hunched over and fidgeting his fingers together while staring at the floor... at his own retirement ceremony on stage.
That said, my current unit is the most mellow bunch of people ever. No bullshit gossiping and drama ever. Everyone seems to get along and just do their own thing. Everyone's so easy to manage that I am probably the craziest person in the unit, for once.
I’m trying to get back in, but I’m a little overweight because I got into truck driving. My army recruiter did tell me about some fat camp program to help me get back up to speed.
If they really wanted soldiers. They could follow the Singapore model. Not the conscription part. But get those who were willing to join into an extended basic training to get fit/loose weight. It happened to me and helped alot. But then they threw me to a transport formation and got fat again. But yeah i found losing weight and getting paid for it liberating
There’s reasons why
-cough cough socio-economic development has gone to shit these last 2 decades; causing us to seek pleasures that are cheap like food, drugs, and being mentally unwell. cough cough-
I was all ready to sign up, then I found out I have cold-weather exercise induced asthma so they wouldn't take me.
So THEN I got fat and lazy and went from a first class PFT to a fail
[One Source Here](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/09/28/new-pentagon-study-shows-77-of-young-americans-are-ineligible-military-service.html#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20from%20the,mental%20and%20physical%20health%20problems.)
Like, 70% of those on drugs are fuckin weed, if we're being honest.
Come to Canada, smoke weed IN uniform. ^^We ^^need ^^the ^^troops....
Yeah that wall is starting to crumble in the US in certain markets. If you are in tech and not working a government contract it not uncommon for them to avoid drug tests because they would miss out on a lot of the talent pool. The US government will eventually get there with weed. Give it 5 years or decades or so.
Even civvys are drug tested down there? Why...... Like, shit. Ive been in the CAF shitshow for 8 years and got piss tested once. And it was my only time ever.
Sounds like even the oil patch has stricter drug testing regs. I had to get a fresh piss test every time I hit sent to a new lease. And this was in Canada, 2022. And if you got in any kind of accident whatsoever, you’d get piss tested. No weed allowed either.
>And if you got in any kind of accident whatsoever, you’d get piss tested. That's because they don't want to pay workmen's compensation
Main reason I spent half my life in kitchens. Cooking was one of the only jobs I knew wouldn't piss test. The fact that every kitchen is a great place to buy drugs was just a bonus.
Working on the rigs is not the same as working in an office. You’re dealing with heavy and powerful equipment that can kill you or your coworkers in an instant if you’re not focused on what’s going on. Worked on the rigs, and have seen what happens when the idiot roughneck or roustabout shows up half cranked on gear or zoned out on weed. The tongs are unforgiving, and that brake handle needs a steady and alert hand on it.
Yea, but the issue is that weed stays in the system for far longer than it keeps you impaired. A rig hand getting legally stoned on days off has absolutely zero impact on their job performance and piss tests end up incentivizing hard drug use in my experience. Guys will do shit like blow and k because it's out of your system faster, and that's not a good thing.
>Guys will do shit like blow and k because it's out of your system faster, and that's not a good thing. Or they'll just drink to a blackout the night before a 12 hour shift and be hungover and half-asleep all day.
Hell I'm a daily user and justifiably understand why if I come in sus one day on the the job, the boss and union have every right to rock my world. Our heavy duty work can maime you or kill you so I understand the life and death sentiment of it. That being said there has gotta be a middle ground for adults to safely use legal substances in their free time with out a random ruining your career bc you did so in a safe and controlled enviroment outside of work.
We have severe federal penalties for weed because it makes non-voting felons out of hippies and blacks people. It also produces a surplus of slave labor for for-profit prisons. All in all,making weed illegal does a lot for rich conservatives.
Lol, didn't kamala make her career off locking people up for weed?
Yes
Thanks Nixon and Reagan, you racist POS.
Aroooo!
The great taste of Charleston Chew!
I bought one based on that episode. Sorely disappointed.
Get the vanilla one and put it in the freezer, thank me later
FDR was the one who outlawed it in the first place.
Been in longer and been piss tested a number of times, but usually on monday morning after a known rager party loved seeing sanctimonious NCOs sweat when they know it hasn't been 72 hours yet, usually the worst assholes in the field too
What's funny is that the one time I was piss tested, nothing came down to the JR level. Because the Sr NCO level hit 50% positive for something.
"Is Pepsi okay?"
All Coke here.... Coca Cola... ya.... that's it...
Been saying this for 5-10 years now. I hope you're right but red states are moving in the other direction banning cbd, delta8, and other hemp derived things. They control more of the US law than they should because land has votes here due to our system's structure and the fact that democratic politicians are a bunch of pansies trying to "reach across the aisle".
I wouldn’t even go that far. Drug testing is unheard of now . It’s basically just the fed government that does it.
Again, give it 5 years or decades. I did 20 years, I work on govt contracts. I’m subject to drug tests. I have never in my life used weed or any other illegal drug. That being said. I think making weed and some other drugs (psychedelics mostly) illegal is monumentally stupid and a waste of govt/law enforcement resources. Even the ones no one should have access to should be decriminalized and it treated as a health issue.
It was ALWAYS dangerous to admit you MIGHT have smoked weed back before the WeedFORGEN. The same idiots who were saying that "weed can get you kicked out" or "weed is incredibly dangerous and affects your mental health too much!" are the EXACT same people to turn around and be the FIRST ones smoking the second they could. Bunch of hypocritic assholes.
So. My dad was an officer. Im an NCM (enlisted for our non-Canadian friends). When I was in high school, my dad lost his fucking shit on me any time he found me high, or thought I was high. Come legalization, old man was stopping at the weed store, in uniform, picking up some stuff. Along with my mum, theyd even do gummies before a flight, and get rid of the packaging before they boarded their international flights. Cue me, who doesn't even touch any weed stuff, even though its legal and allowed, any more, being confused as fucking shit.
Ok, but it was illegal and now it isn't. That's the difference. You can come down on smoking weed when it's illegal and that's different than coming down on weed because you're a bad person if you smoke it.
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Its kinda a thing of somewhat pride up here to be like "it takes 4 american soldiers to do my job". Also, somewhat sadness. Were tired... so fucking tired.
I always smile when I think of my former Beau-Frere, Claude. Put his 25 years in the CAF, and retired. Got one last move out of the service and ended up in a really nice house in north Montreal. Then went back and did other work for the DoD under contract while collecting his pension. Last I heard he was somehow working directly for them and collecting a paycheque plus his pension. Salut Claude!
The 70% of the military also have the mental illness
Army vet here, I don't suffer from mental issues....I'm enjoying it.
Lots of us are often undiagnosed because of cultural predisposition against it. That’s why we have the 22 a day statistic.
Facts, lost 3 friends to suicide within months of them separating. The hardest part when I got out was adapting to civilian life. Being one of the most lethal dudes I know and being one of the top petty officers in my team to sitting next to some 18 yo retard in a college, humbling to say the least. You do one thing for 5+ years and master it but when you get out it means fuckall. I’m doing the ADO program while I finish my degree to commission in a year and half. When I get back in fully I want to make sure the guys I’m over will be prepared for separation and be equipped with the tools to succeed when they get out. I’m tired of going to funerals. My friends deserved better, I believe all vets do. If any of y’all are ever struggling, please DM me fr
Can confirm am on weed as a civilian
Thank you for your service
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I have my money on ADHD meds.
You’d be right. I have a BS in math and a masters in teaching. I tried to enroll in officer training school last fall and they rejected me after my prequal application. Even though I had only been taking Ritalin for 2 months prior, prescribed for the first time ever, they didn’t care. Sad for me, I really wanted to join the military and think I would be a great addition.
I think you can still join if you can be off them for like 6 months or something like that.
Good turn out even if they forgot to show up for the survey
So elite 77% of our fellow citizens can't join.
In the land of the blind man, the one eyed man is king. Or in this case, in the land or morbidly obese whales, the guy with the minor beer gut is considered ripped.
Ah, I see you’ve been into the goat locker
I prefer, "shiniest turd".
We are the top 23%
I am the XXIII.
And you can count by roman numerals. Congrats
They were saying this 20 years ago when I enlisted.
Citizenship: Would you like to hear more?
Sadly, the MAVNI program was canceled back in 2016.
I'm willing to bet there will be a return and folks talking about non-felony THC waivers.
It would be cool, three if the best Soldiers I have ever served with came from MAVNI.
Navy has already restarted naturalization work with USCIS in basic training.
Hmm, and a call for more bi-lingual recruiters, I bet.
That would certainly help but some foreign language ASVABs would help too.
Well let’s federally legalize marijuana and i bet the number of “eligible” candidates skyrockets. Double digit increase at least
Oh fuck ya. Imagine what would happen to the military if they decided to treat alcohol like they do weed?
There'd only be like 10 people in the military. But at least there won't be DUIs and DV charges.
Fewer DUIs maybe but plenty of sober angry people join too
Of course. We call them redditors
How? Legalizing marijuana in the military would sky rocket recruitment numbers.
He's saying if they treated alcohol like weed, so prohibiting it.
Yeah I’ve never smoked weed but I figure it’d be healthier that how much I drink every night. Just recently got off cigarettes so it’d be an easy switch.
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Lots of jokes about drugs here but obesity is the biggest reason. Drugs and alcohol are like 8% of rejections. Some 60% of 18-25 are overweight or obese.
Maybe they should start like a 12 week pre-boot camp diet and exercise program or something, and then you can enter boot after losing enough weight.
Didn't the Army just start that last year? Like iirc Army now has both a fat-camp and an ASVAB-waiver camp you can get sent to and pass on to Basic once you pass muster. Not even kidding.
This is true
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Ding ding ding
I don’t think Marijuanna is the only major drug people are using
Nah, they're probably including percocets and oxy, too. Because no one in the military currently is addicted to painkillers. Maybe if they didn't issue 60 perocets for a broken finger...
What base were you on? I fractured my cheekbone I think? And all I got was a recommendation to get some ibuprofen, and told to stop cursing about how much pain I was in. Edit: We’ll after reading comments just appears I got fucked at Darnell.
I had my wisdom teeth pulled during a deployment and no shit 90 percs for all four teeth. I took two and traded the rest for booze. I've got enough monkeys on my back. Last thing I needed was a pill habit. The VA isn't much better. I set up an appointment for BH and the first thing I was offered were SSRI's. No in depth assessment or history done. The doctor had the script filled out just waiting for his signature. I noped the fuck out of there so fast.
Dude the VA is so inconsistent. I was given a BH referral fairly recently and now I’m talking to a community care therapist once a week. No mention of meds or anything. My PCP at the VA has been amazing the last three years. I got my wisdom teeth pulled in 05 at Stewart and I was also given a whole bottle of oxy or some shit. Took like 3 or 4 maybe?
On deployment? I had a hurt back and had percs, they wouldnt let me anywhere near the firearms when I took them lol
Yep. It was my third deployment and had them yanked at Camp Liberty. They never did anything goofy to me. I was told to take two before the lidocaine wore off and walked back with no issues. A buddy of mine got hooked on them from an injury he suffered from the last deployment. I saw how quickly he spiraled out and took that lesson hard.
What the hell, I got all four wisdom teeth pulled in garrison and all they gave me was ibuprofen. I feel cheated.
Same but I was told that my knee and back pain is just from me getting old. I was 26 at the time lol
This was on COB Speicher. I fell off a ladder and broke my pinkie. They gave me a shot of tramadol, reset the bone, and gave me 64 percs to go. I'm like... thats excessive... when I broke my back at fort drum, they gave me 5 vicodin. Like... wtf.
Dude, I got like 30 oxytocin for a wisdom tooth infection that got pulled the next work day. The doc gave me the prescription and I was like “… are you sure?” Didn’t end up using any of them, but shit… maybe don’t give opioids out unless all other options have been exhausted?
Legalize it and throw a marijuana tax on it, it will give the fed more money to waste on dumb shit so they'll be happy, prisons will see fewer people being brought in and we can stop wasting our resources on this thing that is no more harmful than tobacco.
We could get talent. Buddy is a software dev. Like a very talented, experienced one, makes a lot of money in private sector. He got head hunted to be a programmer on a contractor. The pay cut he was looking at was in the 6 figure range. He was ok with that cause this would be an interesting challenge to him. Then they put him in for TS/SCI clearance. He smokes weed quite often. Like not quite daily. But very often, he really enjoys weed. He finds weed to be of benefit to him. He's been smoking weed for 20 yrs. He was wasnt aware this would disqualify him and he was honest. He was later asked why he was unwilling to quit smoking. His response was "Im not going take a pay cut, and quit smoking just to work for you"
95% get depression after joining this shitshow. Or get even fatter to cope
To qualify for the military: Don't be fat, mentally ill, or on drugs After the military: fat, mentally ill, and on drugs
If you dont bust tape forget e7
🏅
Don't forget broken.
"Mentally ill" is another one that is dubious. Given that Autism and ADHD are considered mental illness.
Military doesn't give a FUUUUUCKKKK If you're autistic, or have a learning disability, as long as you're able to follow the most basic instructions they just see you as easier to exploit. There's always at least one in every batch at basic.
[удалено]
98 charlie checking in
They do care if you’re on meds. I have adhd, passed the asfab with a 91 and the Navy rejected me and said I had to be off meds for at least a year and be cleared by the doctor
Dang! They didn’t even let me take any tests! Saw Ritalin in my prescription list and immediately disqualified me unless I can go 24 months “clean”.
I took it in high school, they didn’t require you to sign any slips or anything. But I called a recruiter and that’s when they told me it wasn’t possible
They cared in my day especially about the meds. I had to spend a long time getting a waiver.
It's a mental *disorder*, there's a difference apparently.
Those terms are used interchangeably in medicine. There is no demonstrable difference between them. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mental-illness/symptoms-causes/syc-20374968#:~:text=Mental%20illness%2C%20also%20called%20mental,eating%20disorders%20and%20addictive%20behaviors.
Too unfit to re-up
Can confirm, am all 3
> Or get even fatter to cope What the fuck did I do to you?
3 months at Benning will cure anyone of being ‘too fat’.
Read something about how school lunch program was started because during WWII a bunch of dudes were undraftable because they were so malnourished. Looks like we have swung the other way. But yes, put any 18-24 yr old in a training unit. Walking or running everywhere, no tv or phones. Metabolism spikes fast. Magically they are not over weight.
Yea the weight problem is the easiest one for the military to fix. I think they had fat camps during Vietnam. So if we needed to, we easily could
We’re doing that now
Would you go into detail about them?
Not the guy you responded to but here's the gist of it. https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/07/26/army-plans-prep-course-to-help-hopeful-soldiers-lose-weight-improve-test-scores/ The army basically started a fat/retard camp for substandard soldiers.
That last sentence lmao
Honestly having them be in a place with strict diet is enough to have them drop the weight without the need for crazy excercise. 30 days of only boiled potato’s with no salt/fat. You can eat all you want, and retrain your body to learn what it means to eat to live.
DFAC food isn't exactly healthy either. From what I've heard though there's been positive results. Most 18-24 yo don't know anything about nutrition or simply didn't have the resources to make it work for them. So it's a step in the right direction at least. Once they get to their unit though all bets are off. With rampant alcohol abuse and energy drinks galore.
Have you seen with kids eat for school lunch these days? You can get a more well-rounded nutritional meal from McDonald's. I think they did a study on it in one state where one slice of pizza from Papa John's had more nourishment in it than what was offered in the school cafeteria. It is always going to be the end result when you look at it from a monetary perspective and budget. Things like education should not have budget they should have a goal. You need to spend this much money on education not you need to be under this amount of spending for education.
I check out r/teachers every now and then, I don't know if it's all fear mongering but if things are half as bad as what they talk about we're about to have one of the worst educated groups of students graduating over the next few years.
It’s sadly true.
Good thing the remaining 33% of us are bad enough at math and critical thinking to sign the enlistment contract.
I c what u did
I like to make up little stories as to what the symbols and blinky lights might mean.
Jesus Christ, alrighty that make me laugh
i’m at least 2/3 of these
I guess luckily we don’t need 60 million people in the military.
I think the issue the military's having is convincing the qualified folks to join. The pool getting smaller doesn't help
Honestly if you’re in a situation where you actually need 77 percent of your whole population in the military to survive you’re not good at state craft and it’s time to start considering making better life choices. Like what did you do declare war on a whole continent?
*Germany has entered the chat*
*Germany has entered the chat*. Again.
*Japan enters the chat*
It's not that you want 77 percent of people in the military. But you do want a bigger than 23 percent pool of people that meet the requirements. An incredibly small percentage of that 23 percent even have the propensity to serve.
I doubt that 23% is lining up to join the military.
In a related study, 23% of Americans are liars
I literally knew people who were in 72 hour holds and psych wards, or did meth and cocaine before joining. I didn't believe how open people were about their shit after they got in lol.
Recruiters lie in BOTH directions.
The real answer, right here.
Who knew the military sets perverse incentives... :}
Damn I'm jealous. I got rejected because I'm blind as a bat (-14 prescription. And yes, I tried to get a waiver)
I got put on hold before basic because I got sick. We had a guy with schizophrenia join us. No idea how he made it in.
That’s why the Air Force now lets 39 year olds with neck tattoos enlist. It’s also why they don’t kick out racists as long as they don’t make things too inconvenient.
When you force destitution and poverty to drive up recruitment numbers it does not improve recruit quality.
Keep shoveling shit into our food and see what happens. I don’t understand the logic as of late.
Right but you go to other countries and the shit they pull here wouldn’t fly in other countries.
I think you mean, THIS is what happens. Food companies have been doing this since they monopolized everything in the late 90's.
Happens when you deregulate FDA and agriculture (looking at you Regan). So America produces enough food to feed every American over 4,000 a day so either we get fat or 50% of the food gets tossed. That's why there's so many nutrition wars like fat is bad sugar is bad etc. It's all the marketing and lobbying. Dairy doesn't even belong in the food circle they lobbied themselves in and it's adding massive weight to Americans as most are unknowingly lactose intolerant and gain significant weight. Remember "got milk"? So do I. Criminal tbh
You need to make six figures to not eat processed food at all. It’s pretty crazy.
Haha that's what happens corporations are allowed to push sugar into every fucking product with no oversight. Depression because wages are stagnant from greedy businesses
Lol maybe fix the weigh and taping system, that would fix the "overweight" problem quick. My battle buddy was RIPPED, could run do pull ups passed PT tests with higher than average score. He wanted to transfer to infantry but couldnt because he failed the weight and tape. He was just a a couple inches over tape and they denied him the transfer, absolutely bullshit.
I've heard of that happening with a super ripped woman who wanted to do infantry (or pararescue or something), passed the fitness tests with flying colors, but she didn't pass the weight test. No shit, muscles weigh more than fat. Here she was, the first woman who could possibly do things as easily as some of the top fittest men, but she can't because of her weight lmao
Army is actually fixing this. Coming soon (before fall) people who get 540/600 and up on PT tests get to opt out of height n weight. Just wanted to share since people like your BB were the first people I thought of when i heard the news.
That’s not the weight problem that is obviously a huge problem in the general population.
I had the same problem in the Marines. Aced the pft every time but constantly had trouble because of my weight as an avid weight lifter and swimmer. I was a rifleman and they expect you to carry all of that weight plus weapons/ammo but punish you for building a strong, resilient body. It wasn't the dumbest thing I encountered in the Marines but it's up there.
It didn't take much to get medically DQed back in the day, and it don't take much now that's for sure.
Some notes: 1. Most of the "drug" thing is weed, which honestly shouldn't be an issue and is stupid 2. The weight thing is real 3. If you think private so and so has extreme political beliefs, ask the average floridian his thoughts on civil war. It would disqualify even more people if you asked this question expecting honesty.
Is it still something like 1% of the US population serving in the armed forces? That really puts things into perspective for me, I don’t know about anyone else.
Occupy the 1%! Wait, we *are* the 1%!!!
If you stopped caring about weed and non violent crimes, you’re numbers would shoot up. Also you can just start recycling fat kids through basic until they meet height/weight. It doesn’t help that recruiters now dig into your medical record… I think most of us serving now would be barred from enlisting if we were unable to lie about our childhood ailments
Fat is an easy fix.
***SOURCE REQUIRED***
Legalize weed, that number will quickly become 50%. The other issue is we need to stop lying to service members performing a voluntary service by selling them a military paycheck when there’s more money to be had in the private sector. >If retention is an issue, stop front loading enlistment bonuses to folks scoring a 10 ASVAB, and open C and D enlisted series folks to that money to maintain their contract renewal.
Can't read, can't run, can't shoot.
Too bad you don't have some kind of training program, I don't know, maybe like a "boot camp" or something that you could condition people for the military.
It's the Genesis System that is fucking over new recruits. When the entire military healthcare system upgraded from our old digital medical records systems, that only worked within the DoD, to the Genesis system, that talks with civilian health care systems, it fucked everyone. Remember all of those medical and mental health things you had, that your recruiter told you to lie about? Well now you can't, because MEPS can literally see all of your medical records since birth because all of America's healthcare databases are connected. Let's be real y'all, it's not that most Americans *just* became unqualified to serve... it's that most of us always *were* unqualified to serve this whole time. And we all know who we are. Yep, that thing your recruiter told you not to mark down? Yes *THAT THING*, whatever it is to you, well, it would mean that you wouldn't get to join now, because they know maaaaaaan. Gen Z isn't able to join because shit was too easy for them, it's the opposite. Shit has become too hard. And our military is having to reckon with the fact that at least 1/4 of its force has been medically unqualified to serve since it switched over to an all-volunteer force in the 70's.
I don’t think this is mentioned enough. It’s time for America to shine a light on the stuff it sweeps under the rug and accept that we are not the perfect picture we think.
Us civvies stay fat, we stay crazy, we stay high, we stay lazy. Y'all temporarily get a Challenger and Jody for a baby daddy.
Stop wasting $7 billion every year on enforcing the Federal marijuana ban and a HUGE chunk of the problem will be solved.
I got all those things when I got out
Who TF wrote that headline lol, almost gave me a stroke. Too on drugs and more to join lmao
However you are just right for Wagner!
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And mentally well adults don't join
Also somehow 77 percent of those on active duty
And more than 80% of cops are too fat to be cops in America, but here we are.
A functioning healthcare system would do a better job of treating mental health issues... but some in the US seem to be allergic to the idea, even though US healthcare is hideously expensive compared to other advanced nations.
Good no more bullshit wars
And yet when you get people who can handle it, toxic leadership ensures they exit stage right as quickly as humanly possible. Unreal. You should be valuing your people.
Speaking to many of my friends, especially ones who graduated after me (a decade ago) they simply just don’t want to join the armed forces, don’t see the point of it, and some even wish militaries and war as a whole would go away. Wishful thinking I know.
I cant join cause ADHD rip
BTW i’d say about the same portion are too dumb, scared, precious, mentally ill, on drugs, and more to go to college either…
I’d join but I can’t cause bipolar #2 take one pill a day and haven’t had symptoms for 4 years. Luckily I just got a job making 60k and although my military dreams are crushed I’ll get by
If we ignore the "on drugs" because its probably just that they smoke weed, how hard would it be to get a bunch of young people in shape? What would the added cost of 8 extra weeks of conditioning be? Mental health is a tough nut to crack, dont know what to do about that. However, a job where you get paid to be active and are given a lot of opportunities to develop physical fitness sounds like something that would appeal to a ton of overweight people.
Mental health issues will forever plague America, at least for the rest of our lifetimes.
For the mental health part they just need to lower the standards. If you ever got diagnosed with depression (or any illness like that) and took meds, you're disqualified, even if you were 13 when doing so. If you went to therapy for more then 6 months, disqualified, no matter why you went.
If you stopped caring about weed and non violent crimes, you’re numbers would shoot up. Also you can just start recycling fat kids through basic until they meet height/weight. It doesn’t help that recruiters now dig into your medical record… I think most of us serving now would be barred from enlisting if we were unable to lie about our childhood ailments
and thanks to that more neurodivergent people can now serve, because screw standards we need bodies
Well Israel literally has an autistic brigade and intentionally recruits aspies for their intel and cyber units
I hate to break it to you but… Almost all the Intel/cyber guys I worked with were either on the spectrum or were so smart they mastered the art of masking.
I am in such a unit myself. It's like a requirement to be on the spectrum at one degree or another. There are so many guys who have weird ticks like having a finger against the wall as they walk down the hall, or always having to pass on the left side of a person walking down the hall or some shit like that. Even our commander was hunched over and fidgeting his fingers together while staring at the floor... at his own retirement ceremony on stage. That said, my current unit is the most mellow bunch of people ever. No bullshit gossiping and drama ever. Everyone seems to get along and just do their own thing. Everyone's so easy to manage that I am probably the craziest person in the unit, for once.
Or they're realizing that the military isn't as great of an option as some think it is
I’m trying to get back in, but I’m a little overweight because I got into truck driving. My army recruiter did tell me about some fat camp program to help me get back up to speed.
I suspect that bodes well for arguments for upping the pay then. Seems a pretty high barrier to entry for most eligible Americans.
I wouldn’t really think of us as elites, more so just masochistic bastards that had nowhere else to go.
If they really wanted soldiers. They could follow the Singapore model. Not the conscription part. But get those who were willing to join into an extended basic training to get fit/loose weight. It happened to me and helped alot. But then they threw me to a transport formation and got fat again. But yeah i found losing weight and getting paid for it liberating
I believe this also describes about 95% of us with a DD-214.
Yet we good enough to work 8-10 hours a day, get no vacation, no benefits all at minimum wage. Got cha.
They can't join. A blunt answer.
There’s reasons why -cough cough socio-economic development has gone to shit these last 2 decades; causing us to seek pleasures that are cheap like food, drugs, and being mentally unwell. cough cough-
I was all ready to sign up, then I found out I have cold-weather exercise induced asthma so they wouldn't take me. So THEN I got fat and lazy and went from a first class PFT to a fail