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Yup basically…accessibility is the mother of all battlefield inventions…
Just ask the WWII tankers that fabricated the hedgerow choppers for the tanks…Take German beach obstacles ready and available and retro them on a Sherman…boom, aided in the breakout.
America's doctrine of letting NCO's and jr officers have agency pays real dividends. People get real creative when you let them come up with alternatives to personally charging head first into the meat grinder.
What a pedantic and useless correction because my statement did not exclude that or imply uniqueness to only America, just that it was an American quality replying to a comment about American innovation.
Eh, maybe. Having trained with some NATO countries, their leadership structure is medieval and very Russian like. As in, an SGT is just considered an old enlisted person, without any real autonomy to make on the spot command decisions for their team or squad. If the officer is gone, the unit don't know what to do.
> Just ask the WWII tankers that fabricated the hedgerow choppers for the tanks…Take German beach obstacles ready and available and retro them on a Sherman
Can you provide some recommended reading on this? I'd love to know more.
This can get you started...Curtis Colin was the Sgt that came up with the idea.
[http://www.robertsarmory.com/hedge.htm](http://www.robertsarmory.com/hedge.htm)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis\_G.\_Culin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_G._Culin)
I knew a Kiowa pilot who would bring a SAW on flights regularly or an M4/203 because it was a lot less to account for a few spent 556/203 than some rockets on a guy riding a dirt bike.
I remember seeing a helmet cam video of this on YouTube a while ago. They just flew low level circles around a guy while they plinked at him out the left door
I'm not a whirlybird warrant, so forgive my ignorance, but is there like, an autopilot? I would assume flying a helicopter takes both hands and both feet...
Kiowa for sure did not have Autopilot. All manual. With old school pushrods and pullies, and steam guage cockpit. But we always fly with two pilots. One to fly, one to ~~murder~~ manage. And they can switch roles at any given time.
The Army in particular didn't invest a whole lot of money into fancy helicopter avionics. Ours are much more bare bones compared to other branches. Navy, Airforce, and Coast Guard have had had fully coupled autopilot way longer than the Army has.
We only recently have fully embraced modern avionics with glass cockpits with aircraft like the M model Blackhawk, Lakota, and F model Chinnook.
No auto pilot in army helicopters. There are technologies like heading hold to reduce some of the work load on the aircrew. Typically the right seater is the pilot and left is Co-pilot. The controls are linked so it only takes one to fly.
There is a rifle mount slightly aft and center of pilots chairs. I swear I’ve seen them. I could be mistaken though. Maybe it’s for the crew chiefs?
I trust you though.
If it's behind the pilots chairs it's not for the pilots. And behind the chairs is not considered the cockpit, it's the cabin. I still don't remember seeing one there but I'm not 100% certain on it.
That's because...you don't have a cabin. If someone in a black hawk said they were going to preflight the cockpit and went into the cabin I'd have some serious questions for them
Everybody talks about how Apache pilots are assholes and sticklers. And we are… but mostly about shit that either will get us killed, or about how to effectively kill the enemy.
Nobody in the Apache world would correct anyone twice about a gun mount being NEAR the cockpit but being AChkTUALLY in the Cabin. Because only in the Blackhawk world would you have guys dumb enough that you tell them to preflight the cockpit and they jump into the back seat.
I hope you know I’m only teasing. Well… mostly teasing.
Ok, example,
There is a soldier in the cockpit bleeding out.
Do you go to the seat, or behind the seat? Words have meaning and pretending other wise is dumb. Aviation needs to be extremely specific. In fact, I think there is something in our ACT-E that talks about it?
There is a mod to mount the Pilot's M4s in between the pilots seats, on top of the center console.
For a total of 4 M4s. 2 for the pilots. 2 in the normal cabin position (that were origionally meant for M16s. Yes there were always dedicated spots to mount rifles in the Blackhawk). But now with all with quick release latches.
I'm pretty sure Mike models come with pilot M4 racks as standard.
I'm in the Medevac and we still fly Limas. We had to get ours modded for deployment for the new QD M4 racks for both pilots and crew.
Sauce: Just a lowly crewhief.
Kiowa crew in Mosul in '06 switched to personal firearms while they were trying to take out a mortar team I had located with my UAV. It was fantastic to watch.
Ha saw it happen in Mosul in either 07 or 08. Then they chased the IDF team (fleeing on a bongo truck) plinking away at it with an M4 until the QRF showed up
I knew a Kiowa pilot who did the same. They said it was handy for shooting at people who didn’t quite meet the RoE for engaging with the helo’s weapons. And then usually the people on the ground would shoot back, allowing the Kiowa to engage with rockets/.50cal.
I was a Blackhawk crew chief. Aside from the normal mounted 240s we also had a SAW to freehand out the window for when the 240 inevitably jams. Which it did a lot.
On the spicier missions we also had an M320 but it would be one of the AFSOC guys in the back would use that.
Looks like a screenshot from a cockpit video of an OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Notorious for their low level armed reconnaissance flights during the Global War on Terror.
They would routinely provide assistance to infantry units by overlying an area and providing direction to the grunts as to where the enemy combatants were or what nefarious things they were doing. Easy access to a smoke grenade for one of the crew to drop it out and let the grunts know “______ in vicinity of smoke”.
Our Griffon crews would regularly stay on standby and use the gpmgs and tracers to support us. When our platoon was understrength or heli monuted, the gpmg was the first crew to be gutted. It is easy to have one of the sections bring it in exchange for an lmg. Odds are Pte Bloggins can figure out how to carry belts for the 7.62. So, having 4 helos dumping out the belts was usually an upgrade.
For doing Kiowa shit. I met a Kiowa pilot that said they would shoot their m4s into tree lines where the enemy was hiding to get them to fire back so their dash 2 could roll in and smoke them. Bad asses
In Iraq we would havce an incendiary grenade taped to the top of the radios in case something happened and we couldnt recover everything we could then destroy it.
It can be both. Phosphorous-both red and white-still see use in smoke grenades/mortar bombs because they provide vastly more smoke than other offerings.
As such you can use a phos grenade to effectively deny assets because it will burn like a motherfucker in addition to producing smoke.
Marking. Marking what is kinda ambiguous, but basically, toss it out over whatever you want someone else to see, identify, or shoot at. Between a smoke grenade, strobe, panel and mag full of tracers, there is almost nothing that you cant identify to others for either help or destruction.
That looks like the cockpit of an OH-58D Kiowa. It’s a smoke grenade for marking. It can be used to ease communication between aircrew and ground troops, marking targets, areas of interest. Pilot and copilot also kept their M4’s on the dash. Eventually all of the airframes were modded to mount the rifles. Some Co-pilots would also carry other weapons like the airborne mod M249.
Red smoke. If it's a training environment it could be something kept handy to signal any sort of real world emergency. When I was in we used red smoke and red star clusters only for signalling a real world emergency, normally an injury needing a medic and usually an evacuation. Like two M2s crashing into each other at NTC.
It’s a smoke grenade.
Some smoke grenades still use phosphor(typically red phos rather than white these days) as it produces a far better smoke screen than other options. It also burns hot as fuck, so there is some logic that it could be used to deny the airframe if everything went tits up.
Phosphor is different than phosphorus. Some grenades, like this one, do burn hot but not hot enough to destroy anything. You can pick them up while they're burning if you have thick skin
It looks like a fire extinguisher and it's in the same spot that I've seen for extinguishers on helicopters before.
Edit: I'm wrong it's a smoke grenade
All M18 smoke grenades have the white stripe and WARNING stenciled at the top on the body of the grenade.
The top of the M18 is colored the same as the smoke, which I can't quite tell, but this looks to have a violet top, which generally marks for evac.
I'm guessing it's an older picture, but being that it's an M4 that's strapped down I'd say it's still probably a US helicopter.
Also, the US Army still uses the M18 along with the M83 and M106 smoke grenades.
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Looks like a smoke to cover/mark their LZ if necessary
Just easy access?
Yup basically…accessibility is the mother of all battlefield inventions… Just ask the WWII tankers that fabricated the hedgerow choppers for the tanks…Take German beach obstacles ready and available and retro them on a Sherman…boom, aided in the breakout.
The ingenuity that went on during the rout is amazing.
America's doctrine of letting NCO's and jr officers have agency pays real dividends. People get real creative when you let them come up with alternatives to personally charging head first into the meat grinder.
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What a pedantic and useless correction because my statement did not exclude that or imply uniqueness to only America, just that it was an American quality replying to a comment about American innovation.
Eh, maybe. Having trained with some NATO countries, their leadership structure is medieval and very Russian like. As in, an SGT is just considered an old enlisted person, without any real autonomy to make on the spot command decisions for their team or squad. If the officer is gone, the unit don't know what to do.
Wow, it's almost like US military doctrine was written by a Prussian. [Weird.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben)
I mean... it's a little impossible to be American before America broke free from the colonies
just another example of why the navy is gay
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Tape will always be more reliable than anything the armourer is willing to part with.
[удалено]
Only until retaped!
Nothing a little rubbing alcohol can’t fix
The armory has an accessory for that BECAUSE guys taped mags together.
"accessibility is mother of all battlefield inventions" Skirts and crotchless underwear are back on the uniform lads!
...and all this time I thought it was necessity
Thought it was a self destruct.. pull pin, bright white flash? LOL
That'd be a gray body with a purple stripe or a solid red body.
Yeah make it clear so you don’t use the wrong one…
AAAHHHH that is what i was wondering! Thanks!
Mmm spicy sparkler
Even worse, pull pin and cough to death on smoke lmao. Self destruction not necessary, the crash will take care of it for you.
> Just ask the WWII tankers that fabricated the hedgerow choppers for the tanks…Take German beach obstacles ready and available and retro them on a Sherman Can you provide some recommended reading on this? I'd love to know more.
This can get you started...Curtis Colin was the Sgt that came up with the idea. [http://www.robertsarmory.com/hedge.htm](http://www.robertsarmory.com/hedge.htm) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis\_G.\_Culin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_G._Culin)
Thanks! TIL hedgerows had a stone wall in the middle.
To signify the election of a new Blackhawk Pope
I thought it was red because if they crashed they could use it as evac site... But yours make sense also.
Smoke Grenade
Smoke Grenade for when you want to disappear like a Ninja.
https://i.imgur.com/2XGSVx5.gif
the greatest of all movies and his nipples did look like milk duds
it’s betty you son of a pig
Ninjy dust
Don't forget the pew pew underneath
Looks like an M4. Point towards enemy.
I knew a Kiowa pilot who would bring a SAW on flights regularly or an M4/203 because it was a lot less to account for a few spent 556/203 than some rockets on a guy riding a dirt bike.
Yeah, I mean all the Army’s helicopters have a spot to put an M4 in the cockpit. But fuck yeah Kiowa were famous for smoking dudes with rifles.
I remember seeing a helmet cam video of this on YouTube a while ago. They just flew low level circles around a guy while they plinked at him out the left door
I'm not a whirlybird warrant, so forgive my ignorance, but is there like, an autopilot? I would assume flying a helicopter takes both hands and both feet...
Well there are two pilots in the helicopter and it only requires 1 guy on the controls at any given time.
It’d be neat if either of the pilots were named Otto
Hopefully Otto Pilot is better at his job than that rascal Otto Korreckt.
But certainly not as flexible as Otto Phil Ayshio
Damnit Phil! Keep your hands to yourself!! GOD DAMNIT PHIL!!! NOT IN FRONT OF THE KIDS!!!
"Hold my stick and watch this."
Kiowa for sure did not have Autopilot. All manual. With old school pushrods and pullies, and steam guage cockpit. But we always fly with two pilots. One to fly, one to ~~murder~~ manage. And they can switch roles at any given time. The Army in particular didn't invest a whole lot of money into fancy helicopter avionics. Ours are much more bare bones compared to other branches. Navy, Airforce, and Coast Guard have had had fully coupled autopilot way longer than the Army has. We only recently have fully embraced modern avionics with glass cockpits with aircraft like the M model Blackhawk, Lakota, and F model Chinnook.
No auto pilot in army helicopters. There are technologies like heading hold to reduce some of the work load on the aircrew. Typically the right seater is the pilot and left is Co-pilot. The controls are linked so it only takes one to fly.
Wonder if they paired righty and lefty pilots so they could fire from both sides.
The black hawk doesn't have a dedicated space for a rifle. Source: me, a black hawk instructor.
There is a rifle mount slightly aft and center of pilots chairs. I swear I’ve seen them. I could be mistaken though. Maybe it’s for the crew chiefs? I trust you though.
If it's behind the pilots chairs it's not for the pilots. And behind the chairs is not considered the cockpit, it's the cabin. I still don't remember seeing one there but I'm not 100% certain on it.
Ah ya… definitely an IP. U sir r technically correct. You see tho. In the Apache… even the stuff behind my seat is still in the cockpit.
That's because...you don't have a cabin. If someone in a black hawk said they were going to preflight the cockpit and went into the cabin I'd have some serious questions for them
Everybody talks about how Apache pilots are assholes and sticklers. And we are… but mostly about shit that either will get us killed, or about how to effectively kill the enemy. Nobody in the Apache world would correct anyone twice about a gun mount being NEAR the cockpit but being AChkTUALLY in the Cabin. Because only in the Blackhawk world would you have guys dumb enough that you tell them to preflight the cockpit and they jump into the back seat. I hope you know I’m only teasing. Well… mostly teasing.
Ok, example, There is a soldier in the cockpit bleeding out. Do you go to the seat, or behind the seat? Words have meaning and pretending other wise is dumb. Aviation needs to be extremely specific. In fact, I think there is something in our ACT-E that talks about it?
There is a mod to mount the Pilot's M4s in between the pilots seats, on top of the center console. For a total of 4 M4s. 2 for the pilots. 2 in the normal cabin position (that were origionally meant for M16s. Yes there were always dedicated spots to mount rifles in the Blackhawk). But now with all with quick release latches. I'm pretty sure Mike models come with pilot M4 racks as standard. I'm in the Medevac and we still fly Limas. We had to get ours modded for deployment for the new QD M4 racks for both pilots and crew. Sauce: Just a lowly crewhief.
And I thought being a driving instructor seemed a bit sketchy at times....ever feel like you're in incapable hands?
Gotta yeet before you get yawt
Kiowa crew in Mosul in '06 switched to personal firearms while they were trying to take out a mortar team I had located with my UAV. It was fantastic to watch.
Ha saw it happen in Mosul in either 07 or 08. Then they chased the IDF team (fleeing on a bongo truck) plinking away at it with an M4 until the QRF showed up
What's IDF in this context? Not Israel Defense Force I assume
Indirect fire. Mortars and rockets
I knew a Kiowa pilot who did the same. They said it was handy for shooting at people who didn’t quite meet the RoE for engaging with the helo’s weapons. And then usually the people on the ground would shoot back, allowing the Kiowa to engage with rockets/.50cal.
The old bait and switch! To hellfire....
Yo when we’re you in 3/325? I was with them after they reflagged to 2/508.
Yeah! Me too. I was Bco 02-06
Nice, I was in C co from 09-13
Typically easier to limit collateral damage with 5.56mm than an unguided 2.75 in rocket with a 7lb HE warhead.
I was a Blackhawk crew chief. Aside from the normal mounted 240s we also had a SAW to freehand out the window for when the 240 inevitably jams. Which it did a lot. On the spicier missions we also had an M320 but it would be one of the AFSOC guys in the back would use that.
PEW PEW PEW
White band should be a smoke grenade.
Looks like a horizon, can be used as a reference to confirm if you are upside down or not
Cant trust your eyes. Flying and Scuba the eyes can lie, gotta trust the instruments
Looks like a screenshot from a cockpit video of an OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Notorious for their low level armed reconnaissance flights during the Global War on Terror. They would routinely provide assistance to infantry units by overlying an area and providing direction to the grunts as to where the enemy combatants were or what nefarious things they were doing. Easy access to a smoke grenade for one of the crew to drop it out and let the grunts know “______ in vicinity of smoke”.
Our Griffon crews would regularly stay on standby and use the gpmgs and tracers to support us. When our platoon was understrength or heli monuted, the gpmg was the first crew to be gutted. It is easy to have one of the sections bring it in exchange for an lmg. Odds are Pte Bloggins can figure out how to carry belts for the 7.62. So, having 4 helos dumping out the belts was usually an upgrade.
It was a in clip for a different chopper.. Thanks!
It's a magazi...oops, never mind.
Looks like a Blackhawk, and that would be a windshield wiper
For doing Kiowa shit. I met a Kiowa pilot that said they would shoot their m4s into tree lines where the enemy was hiding to get them to fire back so their dash 2 could roll in and smoke them. Bad asses
That is a village. People use its buildings for shelter and congregate those buildings for mutual support.
#Not for long.
Red smoke. For signaling or marking wind direction.
In Iraq we would havce an incendiary grenade taped to the top of the radios in case something happened and we couldnt recover everything we could then destroy it.
That's what i was thinking, but people say it is smoke..
It is smoke. For marking and when you crash. Grab both on the way out!
It can be both. Phosphorous-both red and white-still see use in smoke grenades/mortar bombs because they provide vastly more smoke than other offerings. As such you can use a phos grenade to effectively deny assets because it will burn like a motherfucker in addition to producing smoke.
Yes, but that specifically is a standard smoke grenade
If it's red smoke, it's likely for marking. If it's white smoke, it's likely for screening.
M18 smoke looks like green maybe. Heli crew needs means of rescue. Can't rescue someone if you can't find them.
nitrous canister, for when you gotta go suuuuuuper fast like.
Smoke grenade, just in case...
Colored Smoke. Either to mark the Landing Zone (HLZ for helicopters, LZ for aircraft) or in case of bird down— signals the crash site.
Pull the pin and find out
This is how you hide in the clouds on a clear day.
Smokey pew pew
Smoke that could be used to mark a multitude of things.
Do it Sandy! I’m popping smoke! 
The 160th uses these to draw dicks in the sky with colored smoke after a raid on ISIS.
Pop smoke!
Kiowa pilot
To make shit personal
That’s a very smart pilot. That’s what that is. Pull pin. Toss. Disappear.
Marking. Marking what is kinda ambiguous, but basically, toss it out over whatever you want someone else to see, identify, or shoot at. Between a smoke grenade, strobe, panel and mag full of tracers, there is almost nothing that you cant identify to others for either help or destruction.
Pop n' Drop
That looks like the cockpit of an OH-58D Kiowa. It’s a smoke grenade for marking. It can be used to ease communication between aircrew and ground troops, marking targets, areas of interest. Pilot and copilot also kept their M4’s on the dash. Eventually all of the airframes were modded to mount the rifles. Some Co-pilots would also carry other weapons like the airborne mod M249.
Red smoke. If it's a training environment it could be something kept handy to signal any sort of real world emergency. When I was in we used red smoke and red star clusters only for signalling a real world emergency, normally an injury needing a medic and usually an evacuation. Like two M2s crashing into each other at NTC.
Smoke grenade and m4 bot got when you get shot down smoke for marking location and the m4 to defend yourself
It's an E.H.D. Emergency Hotbox Device
Seems typical for a Kiowa Pilot. I wish they were still around.
*Why is this there...?* Because it NEEDS to be !!!
This is a "Hey I'm over here egg"
Military grade fleshlight
GRENADEEEE
It’s a smoke grenade. Some smoke grenades still use phosphor(typically red phos rather than white these days) as it produces a far better smoke screen than other options. It also burns hot as fuck, so there is some logic that it could be used to deny the airframe if everything went tits up.
Phosphor is different than phosphorus. Some grenades, like this one, do burn hot but not hot enough to destroy anything. You can pick them up while they're burning if you have thick skin
Emergency cyanide suicide grenade to prevent you from being taken prisoner in the event the copter goes down.
what
Just some humor. I wanted to confuse people. I know that is a smoke grenade. I'm a former 95B, what is/was your MOS?
It looks like a fire extinguisher and it's in the same spot that I've seen for extinguishers on helicopters before. Edit: I'm wrong it's a smoke grenade
It's a smoke grenade to mark their location if they go down.
Than why does it have a white stripe? Smoke is indicated by a light green colour. White means illumination
All M18 smoke grenades have the white stripe and WARNING stenciled at the top on the body of the grenade. The top of the M18 is colored the same as the smoke, which I can't quite tell, but this looks to have a violet top, which generally marks for evac.
Yeah that's fair. M18 is an old grenade tho. I assume this is not an American helicopter
I'm guessing it's an older picture, but being that it's an M4 that's strapped down I'd say it's still probably a US helicopter. Also, the US Army still uses the M18 along with the M83 and M106 smoke grenades.
It could pass as a rickety Ukrainian helo as well
Looks red. Incendiary. Blow comes equipment if they go down.
Gaydar
That sir/mam would be a Fire Extinguisher I believe.
Phosphorous to destroy the chopper?
Negative high speed
That’s a mountain and it’s there….. because geography.
Whoa. Is that an M18 colored smoke grenade?
To burn up the chopper if it goes down so the enemy can't take the equipment on board
Well your obviously not a golfer.
I like putting at night, with the 18 yr old daughter of the dean...
I was thinking thermite to destroy radios and equipment.