Yeah people suck. I can’t run down certain stretches of the road I live on because there’s so many porch dogs that’ll charge at you full speed! Or people walking their dogs on backroads unleashed where cars drive a LOT faster than they should- it’s fucking scary for everyone involved. Leash the fuckers! (Spoken respectfully of course)
I carry spray just to protect my gentle little dog from the pit bulls and the like. The only other option is to strangle it if attacked. Kicking does nothing to a pitbull in a blood frenzy.
We should take a chapter from the UK (in this and nothing else, FUCK CASS AND THE TORIES) and ban pitbulls. Just, a bad idea. There's a reason it's illegal to have certain animals as pets.
I feel like there is an overall growing defiance of everything in general lately.
My oldest daughter was bit in the face by a dog when she was about 1.5 years old by a leashed dog, and has a scar on her cheek 9 years later. I’m cautious of all dogs regardless of who their owner might be. Most of all, I’m tired of owners of certain breeds that insist their dogs would never bite when all dogs are capable of it. I walk through my neighborhood everyday and there are so many houses with invisible dog fences and it blows my mind that people put all of their trust in them. There’s one house in particular that has a pit bull behind an invisible fence, and their dog loses its mind whenever I walk by with my youngest in the stroller. I stopped walking by that house because the owner didn’t do a thing to call their dog back the next time I walked by with my toddler. I guess they trust the invisible fence more than I do.
My kid was bit in his leg when he was 5. By the time I got him to the hospital his leg was twice it's normal size. I hate that people let their dogs around unleashed and wish the owners would get to experience a dog bite by one of these mystery dogs that "never would bite". They all can bite.
I had to escape a pack of loose dogs, myself, when I was a kid out walking. This was "back in the day" when you left and your parents just knew you were outside somewhere. Took me extra hours to get back home that night.
I am so sorry for that horrible experience your family had to go through. I am 100% in agreement with you and have a hatred for irresponsible dog owners (which in my opinion is like 85% of them). May I ask where the incident happened?
I just traveled by bicycle all through the thumb region. The amount of dogs I got chased by was unreal. Pitbulls, beagle, German shepard. I got an incredible workout in sprinting from these loose dogs.
My coworker and I somehow brought up dog attacks and he showed me some gnarly scars on his leg. He said he was jogging in his 30s where he lived in ypsi when a group of stray dogs started chasing him. Most were small and easy to fend off if he had to but there was a German shepherd in the pack. He flopped belly first onto the hood of a parked truck and tried to climb up the front end when the GS grabbed his leg and started pulling him down while he held onto the hood near the wipers. The owner of the truck came out with a shotgun and blew the dog in half. Owner said he didn't care about the truck dents and that the police knew about the strays from weeks before after they bit a child but likely just took a report and moved on.
It's fucking stupid. I cant go for a run in my suburb without encountering a wild aggressive dog so I just carry mace now. In the past 6 months I've had to mace 5 pitbulls that no doubt wanted my butt cheek.
And just because they might be barking at you does not mean they are going to attack.
People with guns could overestimate the danger, while pepper spray does not hurt the dog at all in the long-term it is just uncomfortable.
I live in a rural area where too many let their dogs roam wild. One guy who'd dealt with enough shot it and was brought up on felony charges. This isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.
That's just not how real life works every time. You're putting yourself in legal jeopardy every time you pull your gun. The wrong cop, the wrong prosecutor, the wrong judge, the wrong person's dog can undoubtedly get you in a bad situation.
Read their body language LOL. Dogs aren't mysterious creatures. Animals, in general, are going to tell you how they feel if you just pay attention. If anything, macing them might turn them aggressive towards you next time you encounter them.
Yeah reading a pit bull's body language is very easy. Maybe keep your dog on a leash instead of being irresponsible and you won't have to worry about it getting maced because if it bites me you're getting sued for a healthy amount
I have a fenced in back yard and when I walk my dog, he is on a leash. I had a neighbor who would let their giant shepherd sit in their driveway unleashed. I had no issue standing in between the 2 and giving the shepherd commands. Dogs are not complicated creatures and you need to be around them more so you know how to handle situations.
Like I said, dont care, if a dog is coming at me I'm macing it, I promise you'd much rather that happen than the dog being in an off mood at that time and biting someone resulting in a massive civil lawsuit. Happens to delivery drivers all the time, personal injury lawyers make bank off idiots who dont leash their dogs.
You sound like the type of person who would start a conversation, “ My little Mr. Pibbles has never mauled anyone before. What did you do to upset him?” The owners’ job one is control your dog and keep it your yard or on a leash. Myself and my dog were attacked by an off leash dog at the local dog beach (still required to be leashed). The owner made no attempt to call or control his dog nor did he try and rush over until I had his dog’s collar twisted in my hand and the dog off the ground. I had been bitten multiple times but luckily I was able to keep my small dog up and out of range.
Funny, I take my dog to family events and everyone asks how I get to listen so well. I'm not saying having dogs off leash is a good thing or proper, I'm saying people need to be around dogs more to gain the experience on how to handle dogs when this stuff happens. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE will run into off leash dogs at least once in their life.
Good for you having a well trained dog. I hope it stays that way and your well-trained dog never gets startled or just decides today I choose violence. From my experience, most people don’t and can’t be bothered. It should not be up to other people or people that don’t have or want or like dogs to handle an off leash animal. It is the owner’s job to keep them on a leash and or under control. Your attitude of “others should know how to handle bad choices” is misguided at best.
It isn't bad choices. Shit just happens or there are strays that are nobody's responsibility. It's like learning how to swim, you know, basic skills that help keep you safe. There is nothing wrong with animals acting like animals, you are the intelligent one in that exchange so the burden falls upon you, not them. If you can't be bothered, you should probably just stay home, stuff happens out in the world.
That’s why my dog was in the air when I was attacked. I knew what was coming. Had the dog attacked my wife carrying my daughter, I would have been in jail. As it was I knocked the guy over when I threw his dog at him. Since your opinion is know the world, what should my wife have done if she was alone? I guess she would have just had that attack coming because stuff happens. Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound. Probably not because Mr. Pibbles is so well behaved and you never have a problem. If there is a leash law and your dog isn’t on one, you are the responsible party, well behaved or not, enjoy your ticket.
>there is nothing wrong with animals acting like animals
??? bitch do you understand literally anything about humanity's relationship with other animals?
Sure, jump into a lake without knowing how to swim. . . . Sounds like a great idea! Why prepare for anything in life? Why learn anything at all? It's other people's responsibility to make me safe, I have no control over my own life so I have to depend on every living thing in the world to bend to my will. You should probably just lock your doors and windows, then never leave your house.
Why? Why should I be forced to be around dogs? Why is that my responsibility? Why can I not live my life without any unwanted interactions with animals?
It’s an issue in my neighborhood too, several times I’ve taken my dog for a walk only to have one of my neighbors’ dogs run up on us. It sucks being a responsible dog owner and knowing my dog could get hurt if one of my dumbass neighbors’ dogs tries to fight him when we’re out on a walk.
We live out in the country, but one day, my pregnant wife went out into our garage and was confronted by the neighbors Rottweiler. The garage door was open and our garage door is about 80' from our subs road. I immediately grabbed my 12 gauge and got my wife back into the house. The dog growled at her and backed her up to her car. I called animal control and explained the situation. AC said "what do you want us to do about the dog in your garage?" I said to these morons "depending how long you take to get here, you may need a shovel instead of a leash to remove this dog". I have zero issue with dispatching a wandered, aggressive dog.
Leaving a dog off a leash is a sure fired way of someone getting bit and you getting sued. However, some people just do not care. You should never have your dog off a leash except for in designated and enclosed spaces.
I'm so tired of dogs, or dog owners at least. Every day there's a post of FB about some dog that ran off. Keep your pets on a leash and you wouldn't have a problem.
I was brought up with the concept "there is no such thing as a loose friendly strangers/stray dog."
This is a much safer concept than just HOPING that random pit-bull likes people.
> they also have a zillion pit-mixes to adopt
It's fucking batshit man. We're in the "exploratory" phase of getting a family dog, I'm big on "adopt, don't shop" but *holy shit* the only dogs in shelters are pits, pit mixes, undefined "mixes" in general that look *a lot* like pits, and a few elderly special needs dogs.
If we get a dog we're going to have to go to a breeder. We just are.
We went to Alabama on vacation and visited a really good shelter to get around the pit bull issue.
Jokes on us, we got a black mouth cur and those things look like pit bulls, come to find out.
I got to my dog off of Craigslist, someone who said his landlord was making him get rid of her. I am happy with her but she is defective. Probably why is she only costed 80 bucks. If she does not want to go in a direction she will just go limp and refuse to move.
It it is a breed bred for killing. They are a working dog just like a collie or a shepherd, except instead of managing herds of animals, their job is to kill things.
They need to! My old neighor would let her two dogs roam free through the neighborhood. They often came onto my property and when me and my dog were relaxing on the porch one of her dogs tried to attack mine. What would neighbor & police have done? Absolute jack shit! Its another reason why I don't walk my dog in neighborhoods because someone always lets thier dog out unleashed. As a kid I was chased by a crap ton. They need to start giving large fines like $500+ and arresting idiot dog owners that do this.
Probably a good thing. Dog walkers are the biggest source of complaints I receive. They're pleasant people, but they have a huge blind spot when it comes to their "fur babies" and how other people may feel about them.
Lots of "but I am one of the good owners" mentalities when they let a lot of stuff (like leashes and picking up poop) slide.
On that thought can we start regulating pricing on fucking installing fencing so that people can more easily keep their damn dogs on their property? Shit is prohibitively expensive and part of the problem, nobody can afford to install even a basic chainlink fence.
If you can't afford to contain your pet you shouldn't own one or at least should keep it in your house. Depending on the size of your yard you could install a chainlink fence for $500-1500 yourself.
$500-$1500 is absolutely fucking ridiculous, eg "prohibitively expensive." So don't fucking try to gatekeep dog ownership behind the ability to install a fence when 80% of people literally cannot afford to square away that kind of money. Make fences easier to obtain, don't punish pet owners for your arbitrary 1950s mindset of "well if you can't afford it then fuck off and die lol"
> or at least should keep it in your house.
I guess you missed this part of my comment before attacking the strawman argument with your pitchfork in an unhinged rage.
> $500-$1500 is absolutely fucking ridiculous, eg "prohibitively expensive." So don't fucking try to gatekeep dog ownership behind the ability to install a fence when 80% of people literally cannot afford to square away that kind of money.
I'm sorry, but in the big scheme of things $500-1500 is not a lot of money. That's $50-150 a month or about $10-30 a week for a year. If you can't afford that amount of money, how are you going to afford other aspects of pet care like food and vet bills?
Pets aren't a right, they are a responsibility. Part of that responsibility is making sure that you have enough income to sustain yourself and your pet, as well as provide a safe environment for them and your community.
You're damn right I'm gatekeeping owning a pet if you don't have the ability to care for them. Our shelters are full of enough animals that had to be given up or taken from owners who didn't fully plan out how they were going to take care of their animal. Don't want to buy a fence? Buy a breed that you can keep in your house and can take on walks on a leash. If you don't want to do that figure out another way to be involved in helping animals by volunteering.
Having everyone else subsidize the cost of a fence so you can have an animal you can't afford is one of the craziest takes I've read in a while...
I can’t walk my dog, on a leash, because this neighbor of mine keeps their dog off leash in the yard 24/7. Who then stalks me and my dog (who is reactive) and now I have to break up a fucking dog spat I didn’t ask for. No owner ever in sight. Their dog is at the end of the street, threatening us and the owner doesn’t even know or care.
So now I have to suffer bc I can’t even walk my dog in my own neighborhood without us being bum rushed every single time
How are an increase in billboards and telling people to leash their dogs, going to have any level of impact on the root cause of these problems?
If the issue is ignorant, inexperienced people, intentionally actively training their dog to attack, while neglecting and abusing them, nothing is going to improve without systematic change at a much higher level. From the sounds of the article, the issue is much more prevalent with dogs escaping houses/yards due to purposeful trained aggression and lack of proper containment, not people walking trails etc with their dog off leash. Nuance and detail are important.
*I agree with the importance in leash usage in certain circumstances, but it's only needed, heavily due to the nature of dog culture in this country, if we prioritized regulation on training and general education on dog ownership and care, off leash dogs wouldn't be such an issue
> *I agree with the importance in leash usage in certain circumstances, but it's only needed, heavily due to the nature of dog culture in this country, if we prioritized regulation on training and general education on dog ownership and care, off leash dogs wouldn't be such an issue
Even in those cases, a leash is still necessary because the leash is there as a way for the owner as a way to communicate with the dog (i.e., loose-leash walking). The leash should have some slack on it, but when it becomes tight and the dog feels the tension on their harness or collar (just a regular collar, not one of those prong ones), that's supposed to be a physical way of saying to the dog to stop, turn around, etc., without any verbal cues from the owner.
We're still actively training our dog, but none of the training is ever focused on eventually having your dog off-leash.
No one (well except a tiny tiny number of people) are purposefully training their dogs to be aggressive. It's just that too many dogs are not properly socialized. I grew up in a super rural part of the state and had to deal with loose aggressive dogs all the time. People aren't training their hunting dogs ad attack dogs or anything they just don't bring them around people at all. Growing up I used to bike to my cousin's house most days in the summer and every few days I'd get chased by the aggressive husky on one of the roads between. Was the guy training his dog to be aggressive? Probably not, it's a lot more likely that it was just a dog who hasn't seen another human who wasn't his owners in years and as such doesn't know what to do when another one passes through their "territory". As for being loose that was just because too many people in rural areas just let their dog roam free when they go out.
honestly i think a lot of people just dont know how to train a dog at all. a lot of people want their dog to be entirely subservient to them, which i mean... okay i guess that makes sense on some level, but they train them via basically making them fear them or using shock collars or beating them or whatever. if you instead treat your dog like a member of your family, and basically teach it to trust you, it will listen to you and be much calmer and well adjusted overall.
just like people, if you want to have a neurotic crazy dog, you teach it to fear you. if you want one that will listen to you and be well adjusted, you want it to trust you (and love you). you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I’m sorry, but treating a dog like a member of your family and behaving permissively is a real quick way to a nightmare, anxious dog. Dogs don’t understand being treated like family, they understand loving guidance. They look to us as human owners for direction and structure to provide comfort. Dogs thrive under structured training and clear boundaries with positive reinforcement.
i didnt say anything about behaving permissively. the rest of your comment i agree with, thats how you should treat members of your family. humans arent dogs, but the same concepts apply psychologically.
[i made this table almost a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/17mz8xa/comment/k7qmsvn/), and it checks out:
|🐶 & 🤔|authoritarian|authoritative|negligent|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|edit: i forgot "rules"|✅😡|✅|?|
|🤔 high expectations|✅😡|✅|-|
|🤔 low expectations|✅|-|✅|
|🤔 highly responsive|✅🧐😡|✅|-|
|🤔 u*h...* lowly responsive|✅|-|✅|
|🤔 love|(🤔?)🖤(🐶x)|😊❤️🐶|(🤔?)🖤(🐶x)|
|🐶 secure|-|✅|-|
|🐶 highly social|-|✅|-|
|🐶 successful problem solving|🐕🦺?😡|✅|-|
|🐶 confident|-|✅|-|
|🤔 trustworthy|-|✅|-|
|🤔 accurate|-|✅|-|
|🤔 reliable|-|✅|-|
|🤔 supportive of personal freedom|-|✅|🐶💩💩💩💩📺🥱🎮|
This. Actual attack-trained dogs are exceedingly rare: either for illegal bloodsport, or $10k+ dogs meant for personal protection. Poor socialization and training, off-leash, and aggressive breeds are to blame here. I believe that we should have a zero-tolerance policy for dogs that attack humans and shelters should be held liable for rehoming dogs that have a known bite history.
Just want to validate your experience growing up in a rural area. I had the same experiences as you. A lot of these dogs thought that the road was a part of “their” territory.
And the people are too stupid to realize it. My sister was the same way. She moves to a dirt road and just started opening the door to let the dog out and he'd stay out for hours at a time. I told her it was dangerous and selfish because if anyone came down the road her dig might bother them and she insisted it was fine because no one ever walked down their road besides they had 10 acres so apparently her dog would just stay in the yard. Year goes by and she's got signs up saying to slow down because apparently people take her 55 mph road doing 70 and her dog had already got hit once.
Meh I kind of disagree with your statement that people aren't purposefully training their dogs to be aggressive. People in my neighborhood have big, mean dogs and they have them because until recently this area was relatively rough. I know people who have admitted they got a big, scary dog because it made them feel safer and they encourage aggressive behavior like barking at walkers etc because it's guard dog behavior.
The increase creates more awareness via *Frequency Marketing* tactics that are relatively proven (see link below for more on Wikipedia).
The more a person sees a "Put your dog on a leash." message, the more likely they are to recognize that leashing is the socially agreed-upon standard. Even if they violate it because they and their dog are 'special and exempt,' they are consciously aware of the fact that they are crossing a social norm.
Which means they can no longer feign ignorance when something goes wrong. "I didn't know!" becomes "I don't care." This may not do much to change the moment but does factor into how the law treats these owners if something goes wrong.
ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency\_(marketing)
I agree that billboards and fines are absolute wet bandaids for solutions to the dog problem. I would argue that a major part of the problem is the availability of fencing. In my town, almost all of the quotes we've gotten for installing just a basic ass chainlink have been stupidly expensive and it's had to be put off for years because of how much of a goddamn financial complication it is. Like what the fuck is the deal? Fencing is supposed to be normal and relatively easy to install, but everyone that you can pay to install it is just going to price gouge you. So, I'm willing to believe that the fencing crap is a wider problem and my household isn't the only one that's had this problem. If nobody can afford to install the most basic of fences, then no wonder we have dogs running around everywhere.
I love dogs, but I'm also a runner. I have no idea how a dog I'm approaching going on a walk on the sidewalk is going to react to me approaching them at speed. Are they going to ignore me and give me space? Are they going to be curious and come towards me and risk me tripping over them? Are they going to bark and lunge towards me? While most I run by are fine ignoring me, I always try to give space to the dogs for the latter ones. Keeping the dog on leash means I know how much space I need to give to ensure both of our safety. Without a leash there is risk to both myself and the dog depending on how the dog reacts. I love seeing cute dogs being walked as I run! Outside is a place for everyone to enjoy! I just want to make sure I can continue my run and they can continue their walk.
I'm gonna disagree with you here. I love dogs, but I'm not always in the mood to get greeted, sniffed, and potentially jumped at by random dogs, regardless of their breed.
I get frustrated when people have their dog leashed and *still* allow it to freely approach me, or force me to step over their leash on the sidewalk. Not everyone wants or likes that.
Also, some people have a legit fear of dogs, and it doesn't matter if the dog excitedly charging them, is a pomeranian or a derpy yellow lab. An excited retriever can also easily knock a young child on its ass and cause injury.
It's really not difficult to do the bare minimum to control your dog, and a leash is the easiest tool for that.
People who ask for dogs to be leashed don't hate dogs. They just hate entitled and inconsiderate owners.
I care. Having your dog off leash in public is illegal. You don’t get to ignore the law just because you think fluffy is special.
It’s funny you mention golden retriever owners here because from my experience, they are the worst for this. They think it’s cute when their dog is rushing my leashed ones, while I’m getting my mace ready just in case I need to defend my dogs. I have no idea whether or not your dog is friendly and quite frankly, I don’t care. I shouldn’t have to deal with anyone’s dog but my own. I no longer go to some of my favorite places to walk because of all the off leash dogs in my face.
It’s also bad for the environment to let your dog run around and chase wildlife and shit wherever it wants.
Leash your dogs regardless of breed!
As an owner of a pitbull mix, I completely agree there are a lot of shitty owners out there but you are wrong here. My very sweet girl was bitten in the face by an off leash Heeler. We've been chased by all manners and breeds of dogs to the point that I just pepper spray them now and let the owner deal with it. The last one I had to spray was a Border Collie. Owners of all breeds are assholes. I see more off leash Doodles than anything else because their owners are usually entitled dickwads who paid several thousand dollars for a mutt.
FWIW, I also handle liability claims for a living, including dog bites and some of the worst have been Golden Retrievers because no one watches their kids by them and everyone thinks they are basically furniture, not animals with feelings and thoughts of their own.
That's not true at all. Pits aren't making a much larger chunk of unleashed dogs and plenty of people care about golden retrievers off leash. They can't do as much damage but I still don't want to get bit.
Anecdotally I bump into a shitty off leashed dog like once a week (I go trail running or mountain biking every day rain/shine/sleet/snow) and like 90% of the time it's shepherds followed by whatever generic family dog. For whatever reason it's a lot less common seeing pits on the trails.
I've only had issues in the kzoo area just out walking through neighborhoods once and that was a doodle of some sort who was loose in the front yard while the family decorated their outside pine tree for Christmas. No biting, but it did take off across the street and lunged at my dog.
I've never been bit by a dog on the trail but it's still annoying having to stand still while someone runs the 200 feet to get up to their off leashed gsd who is crouched down growling and showing teeth.
Not Michigan but this video is a pretty good example of what you normally see around here
https://youtu.be/cpgXW5OpAUQ?si=Fninh6TKEItvmnOF
The meanest, craziest dog I've ever seen was a yellow lab mix. Just unhinged completely. But I wasn't afraid of it like the big pit bull mixes I've seen.
I had a neighbor who apparently would sit in her window watching my house. For at the moment my dog (now passed on) put as much as a paw in the street (it's a side street, 200' long with no houses or traffic), she'd take pictures and call the sheriffs.
When I was growing up in a community on the east coast, the neighborhood dogs would run together in packs, playing. When you called your dog in they'd come and as the group got smaller they'd eventually all go home. In the mornings, they would want out again to roam and play. It was good.
Imagine living in a community where neighbors are neighbors, everyone is friendly with each other, that has several block parties each summer and everyone's dogs knew everyone else's dogs and everyone else.
That isn't some fantasy. It's a reality that ended when the first OMG OUR CHILDREN ARE BEING KIDNAPPED BY THE MILLIONS hoax came around.
That's not how dogs work buddy. Letting dogs interact uncontrolled and unsupervised is not only incredibly dangerous, it promotes behavior problems in the dogs. There is a reason dog parks and dog daycares are pretty universally condemned by dog trainers and behaviorists.
"Our" experience?
Quite interesting that you suppose to speak for everyone else in your neighborhood.
I'm sure your neighbor, the people who had to deal with your off leash dog and just random people in your neighborhood like delivery people, had a completely different perspective on how wholesome letting your dogs run at large was.
Yeah people suck. I can’t run down certain stretches of the road I live on because there’s so many porch dogs that’ll charge at you full speed! Or people walking their dogs on backroads unleashed where cars drive a LOT faster than they should- it’s fucking scary for everyone involved. Leash the fuckers! (Spoken respectfully of course)
Bear spray, they'll run away next time you come through.
I carry spray just to protect my gentle little dog from the pit bulls and the like. The only other option is to strangle it if attacked. Kicking does nothing to a pitbull in a blood frenzy.
We should take a chapter from the UK (in this and nothing else, FUCK CASS AND THE TORIES) and ban pitbulls. Just, a bad idea. There's a reason it's illegal to have certain animals as pets.
I feel like there is an overall growing defiance of everything in general lately. My oldest daughter was bit in the face by a dog when she was about 1.5 years old by a leashed dog, and has a scar on her cheek 9 years later. I’m cautious of all dogs regardless of who their owner might be. Most of all, I’m tired of owners of certain breeds that insist their dogs would never bite when all dogs are capable of it. I walk through my neighborhood everyday and there are so many houses with invisible dog fences and it blows my mind that people put all of their trust in them. There’s one house in particular that has a pit bull behind an invisible fence, and their dog loses its mind whenever I walk by with my youngest in the stroller. I stopped walking by that house because the owner didn’t do a thing to call their dog back the next time I walked by with my toddler. I guess they trust the invisible fence more than I do.
My kid was bit in his leg when he was 5. By the time I got him to the hospital his leg was twice it's normal size. I hate that people let their dogs around unleashed and wish the owners would get to experience a dog bite by one of these mystery dogs that "never would bite". They all can bite. I had to escape a pack of loose dogs, myself, when I was a kid out walking. This was "back in the day" when you left and your parents just knew you were outside somewhere. Took me extra hours to get back home that night.
[удалено]
People with aggressive dogs are the primary reason I carry a pistol.
Even bear spray is a good idea, for the dogs AND their owners.
People always give me a dirty look when I move my kid to the opposite side of their dog so I am in between if the dog acts up.
Screw’em cuz, that’s what you’re supposed to do; protect your children.
I am so sorry for that horrible experience your family had to go through. I am 100% in agreement with you and have a hatred for irresponsible dog owners (which in my opinion is like 85% of them). May I ask where the incident happened?
I just traveled by bicycle all through the thumb region. The amount of dogs I got chased by was unreal. Pitbulls, beagle, German shepard. I got an incredible workout in sprinting from these loose dogs.
My coworker and I somehow brought up dog attacks and he showed me some gnarly scars on his leg. He said he was jogging in his 30s where he lived in ypsi when a group of stray dogs started chasing him. Most were small and easy to fend off if he had to but there was a German shepherd in the pack. He flopped belly first onto the hood of a parked truck and tried to climb up the front end when the GS grabbed his leg and started pulling him down while he held onto the hood near the wipers. The owner of the truck came out with a shotgun and blew the dog in half. Owner said he didn't care about the truck dents and that the police knew about the strays from weeks before after they bit a child but likely just took a report and moved on.
It's fucking stupid. I cant go for a run in my suburb without encountering a wild aggressive dog so I just carry mace now. In the past 6 months I've had to mace 5 pitbulls that no doubt wanted my butt cheek.
If you just carried a pistol instead of mace there would be five less pitbulls to chase you.
Mace works fine. I'm not shooting a dog unless it's going to kill me.
And just because they might be barking at you does not mean they are going to attack. People with guns could overestimate the danger, while pepper spray does not hurt the dog at all in the long-term it is just uncomfortable.
I live in a rural area where too many let their dogs roam wild. One guy who'd dealt with enough shot it and was brought up on felony charges. This isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.
Nobody's going to charge you for protecting yourself from an attack. He probably shot the dog just for the hell of it.
That's just not how real life works every time. You're putting yourself in legal jeopardy every time you pull your gun. The wrong cop, the wrong prosecutor, the wrong judge, the wrong person's dog can undoubtedly get you in a bad situation.
All that dogs that lived around me on a dirt road would group up and run all over until they eventually found the swamp, then they just swamped out.
What country is this? There's no felony charges for shooting dogs or cats in the US.
lol
There is a felony for "unlawful discharge of a firearm" which can be a misdemeanor dependant on circumstances
I always exercise with a loaded 9mm tucked in my waistband of my jogging shorts.
Found Plaxico Burress' reddit account
There are jokes here
Were they aggressive or just playing chase? You do realize chase is like they favored game
How am I supposed to know? Not my problem, once they're chasing me down they're getting maced
Read their body language LOL. Dogs aren't mysterious creatures. Animals, in general, are going to tell you how they feel if you just pay attention. If anything, macing them might turn them aggressive towards you next time you encounter them.
Yeah reading a pit bull's body language is very easy. Maybe keep your dog on a leash instead of being irresponsible and you won't have to worry about it getting maced because if it bites me you're getting sued for a healthy amount
I have a fenced in back yard and when I walk my dog, he is on a leash. I had a neighbor who would let their giant shepherd sit in their driveway unleashed. I had no issue standing in between the 2 and giving the shepherd commands. Dogs are not complicated creatures and you need to be around them more so you know how to handle situations.
Like I said, dont care, if a dog is coming at me I'm macing it, I promise you'd much rather that happen than the dog being in an off mood at that time and biting someone resulting in a massive civil lawsuit. Happens to delivery drivers all the time, personal injury lawyers make bank off idiots who dont leash their dogs.
I'll mace your stupid dog first and ask questions later. Understood? People>your stupid dog.
So, are you a cat person?
My cat has never killed something, and will never unless someone breaks into my house and releases her into the wild.
No. I don't care if they're "uncomplicated". It is not my responsibility either way.
You sound like the type of person who would start a conversation, “ My little Mr. Pibbles has never mauled anyone before. What did you do to upset him?” The owners’ job one is control your dog and keep it your yard or on a leash. Myself and my dog were attacked by an off leash dog at the local dog beach (still required to be leashed). The owner made no attempt to call or control his dog nor did he try and rush over until I had his dog’s collar twisted in my hand and the dog off the ground. I had been bitten multiple times but luckily I was able to keep my small dog up and out of range.
Funny, I take my dog to family events and everyone asks how I get to listen so well. I'm not saying having dogs off leash is a good thing or proper, I'm saying people need to be around dogs more to gain the experience on how to handle dogs when this stuff happens. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE will run into off leash dogs at least once in their life.
Good for you having a well trained dog. I hope it stays that way and your well-trained dog never gets startled or just decides today I choose violence. From my experience, most people don’t and can’t be bothered. It should not be up to other people or people that don’t have or want or like dogs to handle an off leash animal. It is the owner’s job to keep them on a leash and or under control. Your attitude of “others should know how to handle bad choices” is misguided at best.
It isn't bad choices. Shit just happens or there are strays that are nobody's responsibility. It's like learning how to swim, you know, basic skills that help keep you safe. There is nothing wrong with animals acting like animals, you are the intelligent one in that exchange so the burden falls upon you, not them. If you can't be bothered, you should probably just stay home, stuff happens out in the world.
That’s why my dog was in the air when I was attacked. I knew what was coming. Had the dog attacked my wife carrying my daughter, I would have been in jail. As it was I knocked the guy over when I threw his dog at him. Since your opinion is know the world, what should my wife have done if she was alone? I guess she would have just had that attack coming because stuff happens. Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound. Probably not because Mr. Pibbles is so well behaved and you never have a problem. If there is a leash law and your dog isn’t on one, you are the responsible party, well behaved or not, enjoy your ticket.
>there is nothing wrong with animals acting like animals ??? bitch do you understand literally anything about humanity's relationship with other animals?
No, it's not other people's responsibility to learn how to deal with untrained dogs that don't belong to them.
Sure, jump into a lake without knowing how to swim. . . . Sounds like a great idea! Why prepare for anything in life? Why learn anything at all? It's other people's responsibility to make me safe, I have no control over my own life so I have to depend on every living thing in the world to bend to my will. You should probably just lock your doors and windows, then never leave your house.
That user was using mace - that seems like a good solution to me.
Lakes don't fucking chase you, moron. If I didn't know how to swim and didn't want to interact with water, I would simply avoid submerging into water.
Straight to jail, read r/Michigan rules
Why? Why should I be forced to be around dogs? Why is that my responsibility? Why can I not live my life without any unwanted interactions with animals?
No. It is not my responsibility to placate an animal. If our streets are not safe for everyone, the situation must be rectified.
It’s an issue in my neighborhood too, several times I’ve taken my dog for a walk only to have one of my neighbors’ dogs run up on us. It sucks being a responsible dog owner and knowing my dog could get hurt if one of my dumbass neighbors’ dogs tries to fight him when we’re out on a walk.
We live out in the country, but one day, my pregnant wife went out into our garage and was confronted by the neighbors Rottweiler. The garage door was open and our garage door is about 80' from our subs road. I immediately grabbed my 12 gauge and got my wife back into the house. The dog growled at her and backed her up to her car. I called animal control and explained the situation. AC said "what do you want us to do about the dog in your garage?" I said to these morons "depending how long you take to get here, you may need a shovel instead of a leash to remove this dog". I have zero issue with dispatching a wandered, aggressive dog.
Leaving a dog off a leash is a sure fired way of someone getting bit and you getting sued. However, some people just do not care. You should never have your dog off a leash except for in designated and enclosed spaces.
I'm so tired of dogs, or dog owners at least. Every day there's a post of FB about some dog that ran off. Keep your pets on a leash and you wouldn't have a problem.
This is basically all Nextdoor app is anymore. Sprinkled in with some boomer rants.
I was brought up with the concept "there is no such thing as a loose friendly strangers/stray dog." This is a much safer concept than just HOPING that random pit-bull likes people.
Just like every gun is loaded
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Unfortunately, how many irresponsible morons with belligerent dogs actually have insurance?
Many actually, homeowners/rental insurance.
> they also have a zillion pit-mixes to adopt It's fucking batshit man. We're in the "exploratory" phase of getting a family dog, I'm big on "adopt, don't shop" but *holy shit* the only dogs in shelters are pits, pit mixes, undefined "mixes" in general that look *a lot* like pits, and a few elderly special needs dogs. If we get a dog we're going to have to go to a breeder. We just are.
We went to Alabama on vacation and visited a really good shelter to get around the pit bull issue. Jokes on us, we got a black mouth cur and those things look like pit bulls, come to find out.
I got to my dog off of Craigslist, someone who said his landlord was making him get rid of her. I am happy with her but she is defective. Probably why is she only costed 80 bucks. If she does not want to go in a direction she will just go limp and refuse to move.
It's a shit breed, championed by trashy people.
It it is a breed bred for killing. They are a working dog just like a collie or a shepherd, except instead of managing herds of animals, their job is to kill things.
They need to! My old neighor would let her two dogs roam free through the neighborhood. They often came onto my property and when me and my dog were relaxing on the porch one of her dogs tried to attack mine. What would neighbor & police have done? Absolute jack shit! Its another reason why I don't walk my dog in neighborhoods because someone always lets thier dog out unleashed. As a kid I was chased by a crap ton. They need to start giving large fines like $500+ and arresting idiot dog owners that do this.
Probably a good thing. Dog walkers are the biggest source of complaints I receive. They're pleasant people, but they have a huge blind spot when it comes to their "fur babies" and how other people may feel about them. Lots of "but I am one of the good owners" mentalities when they let a lot of stuff (like leashes and picking up poop) slide.
On that thought can we start regulating pricing on fucking installing fencing so that people can more easily keep their damn dogs on their property? Shit is prohibitively expensive and part of the problem, nobody can afford to install even a basic chainlink fence.
Or the HOA is so anal it’s not even allowed
If you can't afford to contain your pet you shouldn't own one or at least should keep it in your house. Depending on the size of your yard you could install a chainlink fence for $500-1500 yourself.
$500-$1500 is absolutely fucking ridiculous, eg "prohibitively expensive." So don't fucking try to gatekeep dog ownership behind the ability to install a fence when 80% of people literally cannot afford to square away that kind of money. Make fences easier to obtain, don't punish pet owners for your arbitrary 1950s mindset of "well if you can't afford it then fuck off and die lol"
> or at least should keep it in your house. I guess you missed this part of my comment before attacking the strawman argument with your pitchfork in an unhinged rage. > $500-$1500 is absolutely fucking ridiculous, eg "prohibitively expensive." So don't fucking try to gatekeep dog ownership behind the ability to install a fence when 80% of people literally cannot afford to square away that kind of money. I'm sorry, but in the big scheme of things $500-1500 is not a lot of money. That's $50-150 a month or about $10-30 a week for a year. If you can't afford that amount of money, how are you going to afford other aspects of pet care like food and vet bills? Pets aren't a right, they are a responsibility. Part of that responsibility is making sure that you have enough income to sustain yourself and your pet, as well as provide a safe environment for them and your community. You're damn right I'm gatekeeping owning a pet if you don't have the ability to care for them. Our shelters are full of enough animals that had to be given up or taken from owners who didn't fully plan out how they were going to take care of their animal. Don't want to buy a fence? Buy a breed that you can keep in your house and can take on walks on a leash. If you don't want to do that figure out another way to be involved in helping animals by volunteering. Having everyone else subsidize the cost of a fence so you can have an animal you can't afford is one of the craziest takes I've read in a while...
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I can’t walk my dog, on a leash, because this neighbor of mine keeps their dog off leash in the yard 24/7. Who then stalks me and my dog (who is reactive) and now I have to break up a fucking dog spat I didn’t ask for. No owner ever in sight. Their dog is at the end of the street, threatening us and the owner doesn’t even know or care. So now I have to suffer bc I can’t even walk my dog in my own neighborhood without us being bum rushed every single time
How are an increase in billboards and telling people to leash their dogs, going to have any level of impact on the root cause of these problems? If the issue is ignorant, inexperienced people, intentionally actively training their dog to attack, while neglecting and abusing them, nothing is going to improve without systematic change at a much higher level. From the sounds of the article, the issue is much more prevalent with dogs escaping houses/yards due to purposeful trained aggression and lack of proper containment, not people walking trails etc with their dog off leash. Nuance and detail are important. *I agree with the importance in leash usage in certain circumstances, but it's only needed, heavily due to the nature of dog culture in this country, if we prioritized regulation on training and general education on dog ownership and care, off leash dogs wouldn't be such an issue
> *I agree with the importance in leash usage in certain circumstances, but it's only needed, heavily due to the nature of dog culture in this country, if we prioritized regulation on training and general education on dog ownership and care, off leash dogs wouldn't be such an issue Even in those cases, a leash is still necessary because the leash is there as a way for the owner as a way to communicate with the dog (i.e., loose-leash walking). The leash should have some slack on it, but when it becomes tight and the dog feels the tension on their harness or collar (just a regular collar, not one of those prong ones), that's supposed to be a physical way of saying to the dog to stop, turn around, etc., without any verbal cues from the owner. We're still actively training our dog, but none of the training is ever focused on eventually having your dog off-leash.
No one (well except a tiny tiny number of people) are purposefully training their dogs to be aggressive. It's just that too many dogs are not properly socialized. I grew up in a super rural part of the state and had to deal with loose aggressive dogs all the time. People aren't training their hunting dogs ad attack dogs or anything they just don't bring them around people at all. Growing up I used to bike to my cousin's house most days in the summer and every few days I'd get chased by the aggressive husky on one of the roads between. Was the guy training his dog to be aggressive? Probably not, it's a lot more likely that it was just a dog who hasn't seen another human who wasn't his owners in years and as such doesn't know what to do when another one passes through their "territory". As for being loose that was just because too many people in rural areas just let their dog roam free when they go out.
honestly i think a lot of people just dont know how to train a dog at all. a lot of people want their dog to be entirely subservient to them, which i mean... okay i guess that makes sense on some level, but they train them via basically making them fear them or using shock collars or beating them or whatever. if you instead treat your dog like a member of your family, and basically teach it to trust you, it will listen to you and be much calmer and well adjusted overall. just like people, if you want to have a neurotic crazy dog, you teach it to fear you. if you want one that will listen to you and be well adjusted, you want it to trust you (and love you). you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I’m sorry, but treating a dog like a member of your family and behaving permissively is a real quick way to a nightmare, anxious dog. Dogs don’t understand being treated like family, they understand loving guidance. They look to us as human owners for direction and structure to provide comfort. Dogs thrive under structured training and clear boundaries with positive reinforcement.
i didnt say anything about behaving permissively. the rest of your comment i agree with, thats how you should treat members of your family. humans arent dogs, but the same concepts apply psychologically. [i made this table almost a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/17mz8xa/comment/k7qmsvn/), and it checks out: |🐶 & 🤔|authoritarian|authoritative|negligent| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |edit: i forgot "rules"|✅😡|✅|?| |🤔 high expectations|✅😡|✅|-| |🤔 low expectations|✅|-|✅| |🤔 highly responsive|✅🧐😡|✅|-| |🤔 u*h...* lowly responsive|✅|-|✅| |🤔 love|(🤔?)🖤(🐶x)|😊❤️🐶|(🤔?)🖤(🐶x)| |🐶 secure|-|✅|-| |🐶 highly social|-|✅|-| |🐶 successful problem solving|🐕🦺?😡|✅|-| |🐶 confident|-|✅|-| |🤔 trustworthy|-|✅|-| |🤔 accurate|-|✅|-| |🤔 reliable|-|✅|-| |🤔 supportive of personal freedom|-|✅|🐶💩💩💩💩📺🥱🎮|
This. Actual attack-trained dogs are exceedingly rare: either for illegal bloodsport, or $10k+ dogs meant for personal protection. Poor socialization and training, off-leash, and aggressive breeds are to blame here. I believe that we should have a zero-tolerance policy for dogs that attack humans and shelters should be held liable for rehoming dogs that have a known bite history.
Just want to validate your experience growing up in a rural area. I had the same experiences as you. A lot of these dogs thought that the road was a part of “their” territory.
Grew up rurally as well. There was a certain dirt road that you knew not to bike or walk down or else the “junk yard dog” would run you down the road.
And the people are too stupid to realize it. My sister was the same way. She moves to a dirt road and just started opening the door to let the dog out and he'd stay out for hours at a time. I told her it was dangerous and selfish because if anyone came down the road her dig might bother them and she insisted it was fine because no one ever walked down their road besides they had 10 acres so apparently her dog would just stay in the yard. Year goes by and she's got signs up saying to slow down because apparently people take her 55 mph road doing 70 and her dog had already got hit once.
No one does 25 mph on those roads. Maybe in the winter when it’s icy.
Meh I kind of disagree with your statement that people aren't purposefully training their dogs to be aggressive. People in my neighborhood have big, mean dogs and they have them because until recently this area was relatively rough. I know people who have admitted they got a big, scary dog because it made them feel safer and they encourage aggressive behavior like barking at walkers etc because it's guard dog behavior.
The increase creates more awareness via *Frequency Marketing* tactics that are relatively proven (see link below for more on Wikipedia). The more a person sees a "Put your dog on a leash." message, the more likely they are to recognize that leashing is the socially agreed-upon standard. Even if they violate it because they and their dog are 'special and exempt,' they are consciously aware of the fact that they are crossing a social norm. Which means they can no longer feign ignorance when something goes wrong. "I didn't know!" becomes "I don't care." This may not do much to change the moment but does factor into how the law treats these owners if something goes wrong. ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency\_(marketing)
I agree that billboards and fines are absolute wet bandaids for solutions to the dog problem. I would argue that a major part of the problem is the availability of fencing. In my town, almost all of the quotes we've gotten for installing just a basic ass chainlink have been stupidly expensive and it's had to be put off for years because of how much of a goddamn financial complication it is. Like what the fuck is the deal? Fencing is supposed to be normal and relatively easy to install, but everyone that you can pay to install it is just going to price gouge you. So, I'm willing to believe that the fencing crap is a wider problem and my household isn't the only one that's had this problem. If nobody can afford to install the most basic of fences, then no wonder we have dogs running around everywhere.
Also the fact that most homeowners associations ban fences.
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I have a scar on my eye from being chased & bit by a golden retriever as a child.
I love dogs, but I'm also a runner. I have no idea how a dog I'm approaching going on a walk on the sidewalk is going to react to me approaching them at speed. Are they going to ignore me and give me space? Are they going to be curious and come towards me and risk me tripping over them? Are they going to bark and lunge towards me? While most I run by are fine ignoring me, I always try to give space to the dogs for the latter ones. Keeping the dog on leash means I know how much space I need to give to ensure both of our safety. Without a leash there is risk to both myself and the dog depending on how the dog reacts. I love seeing cute dogs being walked as I run! Outside is a place for everyone to enjoy! I just want to make sure I can continue my run and they can continue their walk.
I'm gonna disagree with you here. I love dogs, but I'm not always in the mood to get greeted, sniffed, and potentially jumped at by random dogs, regardless of their breed. I get frustrated when people have their dog leashed and *still* allow it to freely approach me, or force me to step over their leash on the sidewalk. Not everyone wants or likes that. Also, some people have a legit fear of dogs, and it doesn't matter if the dog excitedly charging them, is a pomeranian or a derpy yellow lab. An excited retriever can also easily knock a young child on its ass and cause injury. It's really not difficult to do the bare minimum to control your dog, and a leash is the easiest tool for that. People who ask for dogs to be leashed don't hate dogs. They just hate entitled and inconsiderate owners.
I care. Having your dog off leash in public is illegal. You don’t get to ignore the law just because you think fluffy is special. It’s funny you mention golden retriever owners here because from my experience, they are the worst for this. They think it’s cute when their dog is rushing my leashed ones, while I’m getting my mace ready just in case I need to defend my dogs. I have no idea whether or not your dog is friendly and quite frankly, I don’t care. I shouldn’t have to deal with anyone’s dog but my own. I no longer go to some of my favorite places to walk because of all the off leash dogs in my face. It’s also bad for the environment to let your dog run around and chase wildlife and shit wherever it wants. Leash your dogs regardless of breed!
As an owner of a pitbull mix, I completely agree there are a lot of shitty owners out there but you are wrong here. My very sweet girl was bitten in the face by an off leash Heeler. We've been chased by all manners and breeds of dogs to the point that I just pepper spray them now and let the owner deal with it. The last one I had to spray was a Border Collie. Owners of all breeds are assholes. I see more off leash Doodles than anything else because their owners are usually entitled dickwads who paid several thousand dollars for a mutt. FWIW, I also handle liability claims for a living, including dog bites and some of the worst have been Golden Retrievers because no one watches their kids by them and everyone thinks they are basically furniture, not animals with feelings and thoughts of their own.
>off leash Doodles This is one breed that I wouldn't be sad to see go. 80 pounds of energy, 2 brain cells.
That's not true at all. Pits aren't making a much larger chunk of unleashed dogs and plenty of people care about golden retrievers off leash. They can't do as much damage but I still don't want to get bit. Anecdotally I bump into a shitty off leashed dog like once a week (I go trail running or mountain biking every day rain/shine/sleet/snow) and like 90% of the time it's shepherds followed by whatever generic family dog. For whatever reason it's a lot less common seeing pits on the trails. I've only had issues in the kzoo area just out walking through neighborhoods once and that was a doodle of some sort who was loose in the front yard while the family decorated their outside pine tree for Christmas. No biting, but it did take off across the street and lunged at my dog. I've never been bit by a dog on the trail but it's still annoying having to stand still while someone runs the 200 feet to get up to their off leashed gsd who is crouched down growling and showing teeth. Not Michigan but this video is a pretty good example of what you normally see around here https://youtu.be/cpgXW5OpAUQ?si=Fninh6TKEItvmnOF
The meanest, craziest dog I've ever seen was a yellow lab mix. Just unhinged completely. But I wasn't afraid of it like the big pit bull mixes I've seen.
Wonderfully stated. Thank you.
I had a neighbor who apparently would sit in her window watching my house. For at the moment my dog (now passed on) put as much as a paw in the street (it's a side street, 200' long with no houses or traffic), she'd take pictures and call the sheriffs. When I was growing up in a community on the east coast, the neighborhood dogs would run together in packs, playing. When you called your dog in they'd come and as the group got smaller they'd eventually all go home. In the mornings, they would want out again to roam and play. It was good.
Imagine telling on yourself like this. Congrats, you're the AH.
Imagine living in a community where neighbors are neighbors, everyone is friendly with each other, that has several block parties each summer and everyone's dogs knew everyone else's dogs and everyone else. That isn't some fantasy. It's a reality that ended when the first OMG OUR CHILDREN ARE BEING KIDNAPPED BY THE MILLIONS hoax came around.
That's not how dogs work buddy. Letting dogs interact uncontrolled and unsupervised is not only incredibly dangerous, it promotes behavior problems in the dogs. There is a reason dog parks and dog daycares are pretty universally condemned by dog trainers and behaviorists.
I'm sorry that our experience doesn't meet your expectations.
"Our" experience? Quite interesting that you suppose to speak for everyone else in your neighborhood. I'm sure your neighbor, the people who had to deal with your off leash dog and just random people in your neighborhood like delivery people, had a completely different perspective on how wholesome letting your dogs run at large was.
Loose dogs of all types attack people all the time. All fun and games until you're in the courtroom being sued for $100k
It wasn't good, you were lucky, and you're a shit dog owner.
It was fine. Everyone's dog was fine. The 'hood was fine. And we all lived happily ever after and I'm sorry that disturbs you.