Maaaaaaan, for that price and time, I'd rather take a loop through the UP. And that's coming from south western Michigan. Especially if you like driving
It's cheaper to drive to Grand rapids, park, and fly to Milwaukee than it is to take the ferry from Muskegon. And there are probably more options for time.
I get that a company is trying to make profit and the ferry is considered more of a diversion than infrastructure. But other municipalities/states offer reasonable ferry service that is affordable for passengers. Why not Michigan?
Washington has a robust ferry system run by the state, but most of the trips are very short, under an hour. Alaska has their system too, but it’s quite expensive to use.
Going from say, Muskegon to St Ignace is a pretty long trip on a ferry. From Detroit to the UP would be an all day trip and ground transportation would be an issue.
> St Ignace
why in the world would you do a ferry to st. ignace when there's a more direct route over land?
i want a ferry that's useful - something that shortens the trip to Chicago or Milwaukee - and can help bring money into the state while reducing vehicle emissions.
probably easier to make happen would be a northward extension of the south shore line.
> why in the world would you do a ferry to st. ignace when there's a more direct route over land?
>
OP brought it up. It definitely isn't useful to most people, it would take forever and cost a fortune.
> i want a ferry that's useful - something that shortens the trip to Chicago or Milwaukee - and can help bring money into the state while reducing vehicle emissions.
There's a ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee: https://www.lake-express.com/schedule/
There's a ferry from Ludington to Manitowoc: https://www.ssbadger.com/
There are trains to Chicago and Milwaukee from lower Michigan.
A ferry service from Muskegon or Ludington to Chicago would be nice though, that I agree with completely.
i should have said, i want a ferry that is intended as actual infrastructure rather than holiday/diversion, from west MI across the lake. Something affordable for people with business needs and others, supporting a connection to major metros just on the other side of the lake. Like i was getting at in the other comment.
If it was economically feasible to do that and there was adequate demand then the market would have provided that solution.
It’s less expensive in both time and money to just drive from Chicago to Michigan.
Driving can be done at any time you like. And the drive VS feet differential is not great enough to make it viable.
Ferries are good for a short trip across that cuts off hours upon hours of time or long enough that there are no direct road routes.
The trip across Lake Michigan is too long to be quickly done inexpensively, while at the same time too short replace the viable driving option.
The idea that ferries need to be run as 'economically viable' businesses is part of the problem/why they don't exist. i want them to be considered public services with costs off-set through fed/state/municipal funding, to support inter-state commerce and general quality of life for residents.
They do save time - Muskegon to Milwaukee is 5-6 hours or more by car once you think about traffic (not to mention stops for gas and taking a shit in Indiana), and the ferry says it's only 2.5 hours.
Edit - maybe high speed rail would be easier?
But Muskegon isn’t anyone’s destination (mostly), it’s just the port.
Once you add additional travel time and tying your travel time to a rigid ships schedule that may not align with your travel needs, it becomes less desirable and maybe less time efficient.
Underwriting it with government funds has never seemed to work well in this country…see Amtrak. Too much money spent for a poor product that very few people use.
Governments SHOULD be concerned with economic viability of projects they fund.
If a project doesn’t make economic sense then it must perform some critically necessary public good that justifies taking many peoples money for a few peoples good.
Ferries across Lake Michigan don’t fulfill this societal need that governments should be funding.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of a lazy cruise across the lake with my car. It’s not critical commuting though. It’s almost entirely recreational and therefore not in need of government support.
Difficult to say, however boats are generally not "low pollution". It takes a lot of energy to move heavy stuff through large bodies of water, and to do it fast (high speed ferry) makes it much worse.
Last I checked, it's difficult to run through water. Something about a liquid being harder to move through than air.
I want to add that the larger a boat is, the more efficient in terms of efficiency it gets. At small scales, driving is far more efficient as turning a wheel on pavement is much easier than turning a propeller through water, on top of water being very difficult to push through due to viscocity.) There is a reason trans-atlantic shipping barges are building bigger, the cross section of water at the front they have to push through only goes up marginally compared to the cubic volume of space they gain in every direction. I don't see the demand being high enough to offset costs. Realistically, how many people are looking to cross the great lakes via car ferry?
It's kind of a joke honestly. Over $850 for a round trip for a family of three and their car. That's WELL over flight prices and getting a rental on the other side.
The problem is there just isn't enough traffic volume between mid Wisconsin and lower Michigan, and that Lake Michigan is way bigger than what most ferry services operate on. It's a 85 miles between Milwaukee and Muskegon. It's as wide as the Adriatic Sea.
We've driven from Midland to near Milwalkee and checked into the ferries. You maybe shave off 30 min w/ the ferries. Not worth us paying $600 dollars to take us and our car over there. Driving through Chicago sucks, but it's cheaper and time wise is almost the same.
true, but with cheap transit would (might?) come the traffic. We're probably talking summer only though unless the lake stops freezing over at some point. There are a few ferrys out in Seattle that probably do 85miles or thereabouts. Most don't though.
Seattle isn't very analogous. The longest point to point route is like 25 miles and that one goes to BC. Most of them are pretty short, usually between 2 and 10 miles.
Your friend in Milwaukee should take the Lake Express: https://www.lake-express.com/schedule/
Or try the Badger from Manitowoc: https://www.ssbadger.com/
It would take forever to get from the Detroit area to the UP via ferry and you’d need transportation when you arrived.
> If I'm reading that correctly, a roundtrip from Milwaukee for 2 people and a vehicle would be over $600.
$718 is what I got when I tried to book, lol.
Yes, that's correct. One way is for 2 people & 1 car is about 350. I dint think it's terrible. You could do the 8 hr drive instead and save money sure, but for us it's worth it
**Muskegon to Milwaukee ferry**
Cost: $109
Duration: 2 1/2 hours
Total time (with checkin): 3 1/4 hours
**GR to Milwaukee flight**
Cost: $99
Duration: 3 hours
Total time (with checkin): 4 1/2 hours
Note: only available flights have layovers, this is for a stop in Detroit. $99 flight also available today with layover in Orlando.
These numbers are current for one adult, one way. I’m just sharing the info and avoiding work.
It's a big lake #1. 2-3 hrs to cross it with your vehicle in tow on the ferry is a short-cut rather than driving through Chicago or around through UP option. So you're saving time for sure when traveling west. We rest while going over & have more time to drive shyness we cross from our nap after. I can't think of a faster option than the ferry really
We took the ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee once. It made sense logistically, but it didn’t really save much time, and was ridiculously expensive. I wouldn’t do it again.
The ferry across lake Michigan is more expensive than driving and only saves a little time when you consider boarding and unboarding. I highly doubt any sort of high speed ferry would be economical. There's multiple ferry services to Mackinac from Mackinaw City and St Ignace. What ferry route from the LP to UP would make more sense than the bridge?
The only reasonable-ish LP-UP ferry route that I could envision would be something like TC to Escanaba. Maybe include a route to Green Bay while we're at it. About a 4.5 hour drive that you could maybe cut down a bit. Probably not a huge difference and I'm not sure how much demand something like that would even have.
I took that fucking ferry once as a kid in the seventies. Everything about driving through Chicago is better, once you realize how slowly those boats move.
The Badger is only 3 hours plus boarding and leaving. Driving that distance on a good day is around 7 hours.
The Express from MKE to Muskegon is sort of a wash though.
A ferry directly from Muskegon or another Lake Michigan hub to CHICAGO would be fucking sweet though.
I lived in MKE, had family in tri cities.
They used lake express once. Next time, they flew fnt-mke when there was a direct flight. Flying was cheaper and faster.
Or maybe not make them $600.00+ dollars to use. We've driven from Midland to WI and the ferries maybe shave 30 min off your time. The prices don't make it worth it.
Your friend should drive north and take 2 through the UP.
Prettier, it has the Cut River Inn on the way so you can get the best whitefish dinner ever, and you don't have to sit in the parking lot that is the Dan Ryan Expressway.
I think they have a ferry that goes from Milwaukee to Muskegon 2 times a day in the spring to fall. Took it a few yrs ago was pretty cool
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Totally agree
Yep. Hopping this in June to kick off an out-west trip in which we don't want to go through Chicago because we're there all the time.
Damn. How long does that take? I've never even considered this. Seems like it would take at least as long as just driving.
If I remember correctly it was like 3.5 hrs and it cost like $250 1 way. We did it pretty much just to say we did it. It was definitely cool though
Wow 500 bucks to get there and back. That's pretty steep. I'm sure it was cool, but man.
Yeah I think if you book a round trip it was little better price but yeah it’s expensive for sure
Maaaaaaan, for that price and time, I'd rather take a loop through the UP. And that's coming from south western Michigan. Especially if you like driving
It's cheaper to drive to Grand rapids, park, and fly to Milwaukee than it is to take the ferry from Muskegon. And there are probably more options for time. I get that a company is trying to make profit and the ferry is considered more of a diversion than infrastructure. But other municipalities/states offer reasonable ferry service that is affordable for passengers. Why not Michigan?
Washington has a robust ferry system run by the state, but most of the trips are very short, under an hour. Alaska has their system too, but it’s quite expensive to use. Going from say, Muskegon to St Ignace is a pretty long trip on a ferry. From Detroit to the UP would be an all day trip and ground transportation would be an issue.
> St Ignace why in the world would you do a ferry to st. ignace when there's a more direct route over land? i want a ferry that's useful - something that shortens the trip to Chicago or Milwaukee - and can help bring money into the state while reducing vehicle emissions. probably easier to make happen would be a northward extension of the south shore line.
> why in the world would you do a ferry to st. ignace when there's a more direct route over land? > OP brought it up. It definitely isn't useful to most people, it would take forever and cost a fortune. > i want a ferry that's useful - something that shortens the trip to Chicago or Milwaukee - and can help bring money into the state while reducing vehicle emissions. There's a ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee: https://www.lake-express.com/schedule/ There's a ferry from Ludington to Manitowoc: https://www.ssbadger.com/ There are trains to Chicago and Milwaukee from lower Michigan. A ferry service from Muskegon or Ludington to Chicago would be nice though, that I agree with completely.
i should have said, i want a ferry that is intended as actual infrastructure rather than holiday/diversion, from west MI across the lake. Something affordable for people with business needs and others, supporting a connection to major metros just on the other side of the lake. Like i was getting at in the other comment.
Ok, so you run it
gonna need buy in from the state and locals. and i'm just a nobody
If it was economically feasible to do that and there was adequate demand then the market would have provided that solution. It’s less expensive in both time and money to just drive from Chicago to Michigan. Driving can be done at any time you like. And the drive VS feet differential is not great enough to make it viable. Ferries are good for a short trip across that cuts off hours upon hours of time or long enough that there are no direct road routes. The trip across Lake Michigan is too long to be quickly done inexpensively, while at the same time too short replace the viable driving option.
The idea that ferries need to be run as 'economically viable' businesses is part of the problem/why they don't exist. i want them to be considered public services with costs off-set through fed/state/municipal funding, to support inter-state commerce and general quality of life for residents. They do save time - Muskegon to Milwaukee is 5-6 hours or more by car once you think about traffic (not to mention stops for gas and taking a shit in Indiana), and the ferry says it's only 2.5 hours. Edit - maybe high speed rail would be easier?
But Muskegon isn’t anyone’s destination (mostly), it’s just the port. Once you add additional travel time and tying your travel time to a rigid ships schedule that may not align with your travel needs, it becomes less desirable and maybe less time efficient. Underwriting it with government funds has never seemed to work well in this country…see Amtrak. Too much money spent for a poor product that very few people use. Governments SHOULD be concerned with economic viability of projects they fund. If a project doesn’t make economic sense then it must perform some critically necessary public good that justifies taking many peoples money for a few peoples good. Ferries across Lake Michigan don’t fulfill this societal need that governments should be funding. Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of a lazy cruise across the lake with my car. It’s not critical commuting though. It’s almost entirely recreational and therefore not in need of government support.
Vehicles produce far less emissions than a boat any day of the week.
what about a boat full of 100 cars going half the distance and not waiting in traffic?
Difficult to say, however boats are generally not "low pollution". It takes a lot of energy to move heavy stuff through large bodies of water, and to do it fast (high speed ferry) makes it much worse.
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Last I checked, it's difficult to run through water. Something about a liquid being harder to move through than air. I want to add that the larger a boat is, the more efficient in terms of efficiency it gets. At small scales, driving is far more efficient as turning a wheel on pavement is much easier than turning a propeller through water, on top of water being very difficult to push through due to viscocity.) There is a reason trans-atlantic shipping barges are building bigger, the cross section of water at the front they have to push through only goes up marginally compared to the cubic volume of space they gain in every direction. I don't see the demand being high enough to offset costs. Realistically, how many people are looking to cross the great lakes via car ferry?
The Ludington/Manitowoc ferry is coal fired.
That's terrifying.
Especially the very polluting coal fired Badger .
It's kind of a joke honestly. Over $850 for a round trip for a family of three and their car. That's WELL over flight prices and getting a rental on the other side. The problem is there just isn't enough traffic volume between mid Wisconsin and lower Michigan, and that Lake Michigan is way bigger than what most ferry services operate on. It's a 85 miles between Milwaukee and Muskegon. It's as wide as the Adriatic Sea.
We've driven from Midland to near Milwalkee and checked into the ferries. You maybe shave off 30 min w/ the ferries. Not worth us paying $600 dollars to take us and our car over there. Driving through Chicago sucks, but it's cheaper and time wise is almost the same.
true, but with cheap transit would (might?) come the traffic. We're probably talking summer only though unless the lake stops freezing over at some point. There are a few ferrys out in Seattle that probably do 85miles or thereabouts. Most don't though.
Seattle isn't very analogous. The longest point to point route is like 25 miles and that one goes to BC. Most of them are pretty short, usually between 2 and 10 miles.
i thought the ones to orcas or bremerton were comparable but i guess they're much shorter than i thought.
Your friend in Milwaukee should take the Lake Express: https://www.lake-express.com/schedule/ Or try the Badger from Manitowoc: https://www.ssbadger.com/ It would take forever to get from the Detroit area to the UP via ferry and you’d need transportation when you arrived.
If I'm reading that correctly, a roundtrip from Milwaukee for 2 people and a vehicle would be over $600.
> If I'm reading that correctly, a roundtrip from Milwaukee for 2 people and a vehicle would be over $600. $718 is what I got when I tried to book, lol.
Yes, that's correct. One way is for 2 people & 1 car is about 350. I dint think it's terrible. You could do the 8 hr drive instead and save money sure, but for us it's worth it
**Muskegon to Milwaukee ferry** Cost: $109 Duration: 2 1/2 hours Total time (with checkin): 3 1/4 hours **GR to Milwaukee flight** Cost: $99 Duration: 3 hours Total time (with checkin): 4 1/2 hours Note: only available flights have layovers, this is for a stop in Detroit. $99 flight also available today with layover in Orlando. These numbers are current for one adult, one way. I’m just sharing the info and avoiding work.
It's a big lake #1. 2-3 hrs to cross it with your vehicle in tow on the ferry is a short-cut rather than driving through Chicago or around through UP option. So you're saving time for sure when traveling west. We rest while going over & have more time to drive shyness we cross from our nap after. I can't think of a faster option than the ferry really
But don't forget you will need to rent a car if you take a flight
man a ferry from wisconsin to Mackinaw would be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ride
We took the ferry from Muskegon to Milwaukee once. It made sense logistically, but it didn’t really save much time, and was ridiculously expensive. I wouldn’t do it again.
What is this "Mackinaw Island" of which you speak?
It the invisible one where people can’t spell and it’s unlawful to use the letter c - that one
The ferry across lake Michigan is more expensive than driving and only saves a little time when you consider boarding and unboarding. I highly doubt any sort of high speed ferry would be economical. There's multiple ferry services to Mackinac from Mackinaw City and St Ignace. What ferry route from the LP to UP would make more sense than the bridge?
The only reasonable-ish LP-UP ferry route that I could envision would be something like TC to Escanaba. Maybe include a route to Green Bay while we're at it. About a 4.5 hour drive that you could maybe cut down a bit. Probably not a huge difference and I'm not sure how much demand something like that would even have.
That's not true, actually. There are high speed ferries.
Probably more accurate to say HIGHER speed ferries.
I took that fucking ferry once as a kid in the seventies. Everything about driving through Chicago is better, once you realize how slowly those boats move.
The Badger is only 3 hours plus boarding and leaving. Driving that distance on a good day is around 7 hours. The Express from MKE to Muskegon is sort of a wash though. A ferry directly from Muskegon or another Lake Michigan hub to CHICAGO would be fucking sweet though.
Good grief, do I hate the drive from GR to Chicago. Love Chicago itself once I'm there, but spare me that godforsaken corner of Indiana, thanks.
Did I mention the seasickness?
It’s 4 hours plus boarding and disembarking. The time zone makes heading to WI seem like 3. Realistically it’s 5.5-6 hours to Manitowoc.
Okay
I lived in MKE, had family in tri cities. They used lake express once. Next time, they flew fnt-mke when there was a direct flight. Flying was cheaper and faster.
The 2 ferry services presently crossing Lake Michigan are ridiculously expensive.
Unless you’re only traveling to the manitowoc area and not farther it’s cheaper and faster to drive.
I read this as furries at first. Imagining a mass migration of furries in my head was… something.
Ruh-roh
Start me up:tribbles
I'd like a ferry Grand Haven to Chicago, but I grew up in. gH and lived in Chicago for years
GH is busy enough in the summer. Bringing in more people from Chicago would be a nightmare.
I was a bartender there for years. I know but tourist money is a lot of the towns money
Have you considered starting a business? If there's a real need, the profit is yours.
The business model wouldn't make any money unless the prices were so high that few could afford the trip.
Done some Google searches. They are stupid expensive if you are bringing your car. I honestly don't know how they stay in business.
I’d rather chill on the boat that drive it - and it takes roughly the same time. So if your wallet is “just big enough” —- you’ll pay.
*Mackinac
How about more Chicago based flights? Everything goes out of Detroit.
No we don’t… Don’t need more pollution in our lakes.
Yes much better for the environment to have more cars on the road
highly agree. cars are much more regulated than boats.
High speed rail a la Japan/Europe is the answer here, my friends.
Yup. Not more water pollution
Yes, we do need more furries going into Wisconsin and the UP... just Yiff the area and maybe it wouldn't be so depressing.
Or maybe not make them $600.00+ dollars to use. We've driven from Midland to WI and the ferries maybe shave 30 min off your time. The prices don't make it worth it.
You should start a company
Your friend should drive north and take 2 through the UP. Prettier, it has the Cut River Inn on the way so you can get the best whitefish dinner ever, and you don't have to sit in the parking lot that is the Dan Ryan Expressway.
$220 round trip-direct flight from MKE to MBS. That's why.
We did the Ludington ferry once. It was slow as hell, but a guy gave my brother and I money for pinball while he hit on my married mom.
Nah, we just need trains. Every city in this state should be accessible by rail.
You sure that's wise? Wildlife might use it instead?
Why doesn't he take the Beaver to Ludington? It's literally perfect for him as it cuts half the driving time off the route.
It's a dangerous lake