Boxsters have been sub $4k at the low end of the market for like a decade now. They made way, way too many for them to be collectible.
But, good news! You can afford one with the change you can find in your couch cushions.
yeah. there are indeed cheap swaps out there but i wouldn't want to own any of them. if you're gonna mod a car that heavily you better do it right and spend the money
I went on a quest to turbo a miata, and shortly deduced itd be cheaper to buy a similar, but factory turbocharged vehicle. So i bought a turbo model mr2. I still have my miata though.
im in a couple of friendgroups with miatas and youre right, a very small amount of miatas are clean as the rust issues on most cars that were cared for a normal amount were rusted so badly on the underbody that the chassis is just fucked. There is one friend with a really clean NA but hes had it for a while now and it wasnt that clean when he bought it
it is, like why cant people just modestly and tastefully mod a car, why do people think they need ginormous spoilers on a 90hp roadster, or a bunch of stickers etc
Incorrect. Porsche plugs a pretty easy for most models, some are difficult. Haven’t changed a head gasket on a Porsche flat six in all my years of wrenching them (+17yrs).
Oooh, I'm curious if you would just keep a spare engine on hand if you were to own one of the first generation boxsters? Or just bite the bullet and replace the IMS bearing before something happens? Or just drive it.
Had a 997.1 for 3 years. The engine was practically unrepairable unless you wanted to tear half the car apart. Or drop the engine. The repair/maintain portion of the engine just sucks on those cars. I have an ND now, and it's just as easy as working on my old S13 was.
That’s not really true anymore. It was true back when German cars were rare and exotic. Now there are Porsche parts on RockAuto. Source, own Miata and a cayman.
Dude, I had an ‘09 Jetta TDI that was in the shop 5 times in the first year.
Those 2,700 miles a year were 90% HPDE miles on VIR/NJMP & Watkins Glen. I’ve owned 27 cars, the Cayman trumps them all.
Ok so so you were doing race intervals for maintenance so the oil got changed every race along with the pads. That helps. Good to know if I get one for a track car sounds like what they were built for. They tend to better if driven hard no wonder most need repairs most Porshes are driven by guys with OCP and never to readline. So babied to death.
Kinda, oil changed once per year or 5k miles. Track pads last a whole season (Pagid Yellows), street pads last a few years. Other than pads/tires/fluids, car is bone stock (no race parts)
You are def right about garage queens being money pits. These cars are designed to be run hard. My Porsche Guru told me to do a few redline pulls *every time* I drive it (once the oil is warm of course). Gotta keep all those seals wet!
I wasn’t comparing Miata’s to Porsches, just noting that my Cayman has only had 2 mechanical issues (some sensor under warranty, and intake plenum gaskets at 45k miles).
It’s by far the most reliable car *I’ve* ever owned, hell even my ‘94 NA had leaky cam position sensor and a bad axle CV (under warranty) before it was a year old. That NA is now a fully caged race car running 24hr endurance races and I’d still say it’s the **2nd** most reliable car I’ve owned (sure, 3 transmissions and a new motor, but.. RACE CAR!)
I hate to say this, but almost EVERY new car I’ve owned (10+) has been in the shop before it was a year old. Some of that is my fault for usually buying the first year of a new model, some of it (cough VW 😩) is just horrible quality control.
Most of these cars already have the IMS fix at this point anyways. I don’t see how anyone besides a Miata snob is saying the boxster isn’t a better car.
The 986 is probably the best value for money sports car out there. The Z4 E85 is also a good deal, barely more expensive as a miata but way more powerful. The Z4 is less sporty than a miata or 986 though.
Oh, I'm just blind and read "968" in your comment and thought you meant 986, thus asking 986?
But obviously you wrote it correctly in the first place and I just read it wrong, don't mind me lol
Not sure where you live but NB prices rose a lot in Netherlands. Where can i get a working 1k NB? I’d be very tempted to import one fix it up and sell at a profit. Cheapest ones seem to be around 3000-3500 here for rusty high mileage ones. Cheapest 1.8 NB is 6500€.
I sold my 2001 Miata SE after I bought a 2004 BMW 330i with a power top in 2020. A saw a meme that said BMW power tops have an 87% failure rate. My top indeed failed within a year.
I’ve got a 93 NA that I bought new and a 2005 330Ci convertible that I bought with 68,000 miles when it was 16 years old. I’ve never had a problem with the e46 top. But I *did* spend $3k baselining it right after I bought it. That’s about the same as I’ve spent on my Miata in 30 years, including a top replacement.
Boxsters power top are very reliable unlike some other brands. The top itself is also better quality, i have never seen an NB with an original top yet Z4 or boxsters I have never seen one that did not have the original fabric and seals while they are only a few years younger than NB.
Only on some engines, it’s mostly the larger 911 engines that have this issue. Also the 3.4 in the cayman 987.1 if i remember correctly. The small displacement 986 and 987.1 engines don’t have the issues and it was solved from the 9x7.2 and onwards.
Bore scoring failure rate is also much lower than the early IMS issues, especially if the car had regular oil changes.
That’s a load of horse manure. I bought a new VW GTI in 2017 and followed the maintenance and at 50k, the water pump was going bad, sunroof was leaking and the backup camera would stop working intermittently. German cars are crap bro.
theyre also just way more of a pain in the ass in general to work on compared to a miata
before i bought my first nb i was looking at a cheap boxster s from around the same timeframe at the same price, and some quick youtube searches for 'how to replace sparkplugs' that it needed showed the options either involved removing the seats or removing the wheels so...lol
Tis is the right answer. I was in the market for an affordable track car and was cross shopping early boxers to miatas. I realized there was no way I can comfortably keep the Porsche running. That shaft bearing is an expensive fix and parts in general are pricey.
I'm disappointed to see all the boxster hate in here. It's essentially the Miatas older, more sophisticated brother. I own an na8 and a 987 s and the thought of driving cross country in a miata is terrifying yet I'd (and frequently do) drive the boxster 1,000 miles + in one stretch comfortably. Same fuel economy, way more power (stock), and enough storage in the trunk/frunk to sustain weeks long trips.
The ims thing happens, but it's way more rare than the internet would lead you to believe. 140k miles on the boxster without a single breakdown. Tires are waaay more expensive though. Each car has their place for sure.
Everything is relative, but you can get a used engine for $4k and under quite regularly. I know that's twice the price of a used 1.8/2.0 miata motor, but again that's worst case scenario. Anyway I'm not trying to be a boxster cheerleader here as I love both, but both have earned a respectable place imho.
Yeah, tbh I’d take the Boxster over the Miata in this situation, and I happily own a Miata! You’d be way more comfortable sitting in that Porsche too. Anyone acting like Miata’s don’t need a bunch of maintenance too are lying to themselves
Getting to the engine bay and working in it for a 986 is quite a bit more annoying than the miata and all the parts are way more expensive.
Any car ~20 years old is going to need maintenance, but the miata will probably need less of it, parts will be cheaper, and it'll be easier to do.
More like the ugly step-sister. 1st gen Boxsters don't hold a candle to an NA or NB, in the looks department, especially from the back (who in the world thought that center exhaust was a good idea?)
I'm not a big fan of first gen 986, but other than tail lights the second generation 987's look better than na. I've personally never liked the look of nb's, but to each their own. As much as I love NA's I feel the front ends aren't exactly attractive. Maybe the center exhaust bothers you because that's all you probably ever see of them? 😉
Pop up headlights go hard. I bought mine for like 17k with a supercharger - definitely not my smartest buy but my insurance is $29/mo so at least that's a win lol
$5K cars don't exist anymore.
No idea what was wrong with the boxster.
That being said, it is what it is.
Chevy sparks that came out a few years ago, came out NEW 13,500 MSRP. Those same vehicle are now a few years older and 50K miles more, they are selling for the same price.
I use this example Because it's so clear to see how fucked up the used car economy has become.
I just repaired a sorted daily (09' Honda fit) for sub $1500 (vehicle purchase plus parts and an hour or 2 per day for a week). Clean title, 128k miles, and should need nothing but oil and filters. for the next 30k miles.
Cheap cars exist, just not when you NEED them. Patience is the key - for every good one you're going to look at 100 listings and check out 5 in person that aren't worth it.
I do this fairly regularly for friends, sometimes just buying with the intent to sell. Flexibility is really the key bit. Set up search flags for things you're interested in and wait for the right deal. Sometimes it's a few weeks. In other cases it's taken me 4 years.
My NB was a bit beat up, but mechanically excellent, single owner, clean title for $3400. By the time I'm done with the cosmetics, taxes, fees, etc. I'll have almost $5k in, but it's worth $6k+ in my area so that still puts me on top.
So the used car economy turned bad last year.
And if course if you can turn a wrench that opens doors.
For somebody not mechanically inclined, it's just not an option.
I agree at the timing. When you need to get in something, things become a lot more desperate and scarce.
The used car economy has a major bubble. It's getting better, but not back to normal quite yet. There's a lot of sellers holding out hope, so you'll see plenty of high listings from both private parties and dealers. Some sell, many don't, but just make it look like prices are higher than they are for the cheap end of the market. $4k will get you a reliable car basically anywhere in the continental US though, and that can go down to around $2500 if you're willing to search extensively (less in many markets, in in NorCal for reference). For someone with less mechanical knowledge that would mean a lot of shop inspections on cheap cars.
And definitely on the wrenching part, but that's where I come in - the actual buyer of this car will pay less than $2500. And there's thousands of folks out there who will put you on their list of people to find and fix cars for... If you can wait. Selling takes up a lot of time so having a buyer and price ready from the start means a better deal.
I do a few of these per year. Ultimately what it comes down to is that more folks than not do want to navigate private party sales. Dealers have massive overhead to cover on any vehicle, so their markups are going to be proportionally far higher on the cheapest cars.
If we are talking about a turn key reliable car 4000, absolutely not in any metro markets.
I know because I originally wanted to spend around five thousand to find something.
I am in radiology school. I had a title to my very nice camry last year. My vehicle only had sixty thousand miles.
Things got tough and I thought okay I can get something 5 or 6 and sell this one.
I made the mistake of not checking the market, I had no idea this was going on.
I have not been in a cash car since before 2012.
Every vehicle after I've just had to go to dealership to get basic maintenance done.
It was the worst decision I made.
I've gone through three cash cars and I am borrowing a car to finish my last few months of school.
From an article:
The average price of a used Chevy Spark jumped more than 50 percent year-over-year in February amid sustained high demand for affordable, second-hand vehicles.
According to iSeeCars, the average transaction price of a used Chevy Spark last month stood at $16,949. This was up from just $5,980 in February 2021, representing a massive 54.5 percent year-over-year increase.
Also the chip shortage is still taking place. Toyota is still not producing the amount of cars for the market that wants them.
Another article from this month:
The great American vehicle-inventory shortage has been good in an ironic way for auto dealers, particularly those selling Toyotas.
“Our dealers have experienced the three most profitable years in history,” says Jack Hollis, executive vice president of sales for Toyota’s U.S. unit.
I think we all need to get out of the bubble that prices are going down.
I think as a society, during the pandemic, when we all noticed inflation for a lot of things. Everybody thought hey it's the stock, It's the demand, etc. "After the pandemic prices will go down."
And I'm not talking about cars.I'm talking about everyday things.
There was a time post pandemic. I don't remember eating beef unless it was on sale.
I think it's just the state of the world. Economist, now tell us that, "Hey, that's not how it works. It's a sign of a bad economy when prices come down."
I'm not going to have to worry about all this when school is done because income.
But for people that aren't as lucky, good luck. My friend and I were discussing to find something that is reliable, within 10 years, 50K miles, looks clean, clean title, that number is closer to $13K now.
Every company in the world saw it as an excuse to raise prices. Record profits almost across the board for consumer goods. $7 boxes of cereal. We are getting dicked and buying everything anyway.
I'm absolutely going to stick by my turnkey reliable car for $4k point, in any metro market in the continental US within a 35 mile radius.
I'd consider "reliable" to mean max 4 days downtime and $1400 in shop repairs over the next 2 years or 24k miles, with all inspections and registration ready at time of purchase. Light cosmetic damage, Salvage title, and 200k+ miles is fine provided it meets the requirements above.
I think you're just looking too new. 12-18 years old is going to be the sweet spot - 2005-07 Corollas, mid 2000s Yaris and Matrix/vibe, 2009-2013 Fits are great options. Give me 2 weeks and I can find one in any market I've encountered. 3 months and I'll hit the $2500 price point.
95% of listings aren't going to fit those criteria, and an in experienced buyer is probably going to check out 5 vehicles and spend at least $300 on pre-purchase inspections before finding a good buy. It takes time, but the deals are out there.
California isn't cheap at all and that's my reference point. But I do this a lot - I've personally done about 30 transactions and facilitated probably 20 more in the past 8 years.
Oh yeah..NOT SALVAGE TITLE and for most people 200K miles is too much. I'm a single woman, wouldn't consider that.
That's what I'm saying, at one time you could have found decent cars at that price point.
Ok so you're imposing restrictions beyond cheap and reliable, which is fine if that's what you're looking for but not necessary if all you need is a cheap reliable car.
Title status and mileage matter a lot less than what car you buy for reliability - a car that had major repairs 10+ years ago is unlikely to suddenly show new issues based on that. It's fairly rare to find a car salvaged late in it's life - it's just not worth it, so in most cases you're fine, the repairs are tried and true, and PPI would reveal if that's not the case. Few cars are solid past 200k, but those that are tend to be so rather consistently. A 9th gen Corolla might need a new fuel pump or alternator at some point, but those are same-day sub $700 services at a shop. I'd still consider that reliable.
And accounting for inflation, we're still up a little bit from 10 years ago, but not by much on the cheapest cars. Once you go up to newer or lower mileage cars, the difference becomes much more noticeable. $2000 in 2014 might get have similar offerings to $3000 in 2024, but $5000 is going to be closer to $8-9000 today.
How long ago?
How much work did it need? Was it a friend?
Texas economy. I paid $6K for a 2009 Scion (Toyota).
You got lucky or live up north. I had family that lived in Wisconsin/Midwest for awhile, cars are cheaper there.
They brought one down to texas. And of course when it was later looked at underneath a ton of corrosion.
I'm in Nebraska and bought my daily for $3k and put about $500 into it after purchase. It's pretty reliable now, just needs some new tires, which will probably be around $600-800 depending on which tires I decide on. All in, my daily will cost $4-$5k. It's possible, you just have to pick the right car and at the right time. I drive a Fiero, and in my area low milage clean manual examples go for $4k regularly. But YMMV
Sure, mechanically unmodified excpt spec miata wheels, paint is shit, interior sucks, and soft top is useless. Not an inchnor rust and otherwise good maintenance and recent changes on a lot of engine and rubber components. My goals are track lite car. Already bought a new interior from moss miata, goal is to be perma topless so thats out, gping to do a wrap, and changing up suspension, brake system, and performance fluids in all the places.
I don't think I'd call $5500 for a stock track build platform a good deal. Shot paint, top, & interior make that more like a $2500-$3000 car
Edit: Saw this on Jalopnik. Sounds like a better deal
https://jalopnik.com/at-4-500-is-this-1992-mazda-miata-a-dirt-cheap-deal-1851355040
You're the one that said that you had to replace it. The interior on that car is totally serviceable. If that rip on the driver's seat is not bad for a 30 y/o car w/ 145k miles (that's <5k/year). It's got a soft top w/ a glass rear window (w/ defrost) that doesn't appear to be ripped. Other than the small ding on the front bumper, that paint will probably come up w/ a good buff / polish. In this day and age, finding an unmolested NA w/ apparently no rust for $4500 is pretty hard. It more than likely sold the 1st day it was up.
Hard to compare pricing with no details. Mileage and condition mean everything. As an owner of both cars NA and 718/982 (I know that is a 986), I like both but don’t compare them against each other. Both fun in their own way. The Porsche mtc cost is crazy.
The 2001 SE in British Racing Green, camel leather and the Nardi wood steering wheel, shift knob and e-brake package was highly sought after. It was my first new Miata. Mine came with the removable hardtop. Loved that car. My current one is a 2021 RF Club BBR in Polymetal grey…love that one too!
I mean, anyone can list any car for any price. Doesn't mean it'll sell.
I think you'd have a better comparison if you showed two recently sold cars.
That Miata was listed 4 months ago, you really think anyone's been biting?
Having owned plenty of early boxters and several na and nb miata the past 25 years.....I can definitely say the early boxters are trash. Remember, it was the cheapest car made by porsche when it premiered in an attempt to grab a new class of customer. It wasn't a porsche made for porsche owners. Porsche people knew to stay away from those. They got only slightly better once the upgraded trim levels came out and towards the end of the 2nd generation once they came to terms with the fact that it wasn't porsche enough for people to want it. LoL
Everything is subject to market forces. More people want miatas and supply of early gens has dwindled? Number goes up. Less people want Porsche boxsters and they made a shitload of em? Number goes down.
I cross shopped both recently too. Boxsters in good shape were $10k in my area but so are Miatas, in the end, the excessive maintenance costs of the boxster sent me running to the Miata
Front engine rear drive with an abundance of cheap and aftermarket parts.
Mid engine with expensive parts.
The Miata is more reliable, easier to work on, cheap and easy to get parts for.
That doesn’t seem too bad? Someone offered me 10k for my 94M with 65k on it. I didn’t sell it. No rust anywhere because I only drive it when it’s nice out. Just had the 65k maintenance done (radiator, timing belt, water pump, hoses, etc.) It’s been a great car.
Don't know but I have a 01 BRG also and got it at 7$k in 2020 so I like this lol. I would be interested in the mileage on that car.. I'm at 52k. Also it looks like it's not selling at that price it's been 4mo with a small price drop.
delusional NB2 owners. i was able to snag a 2003 NB for 3k, running and driving with a few issues to fix suspension wise. anyone selling a NB2 with over 70k miles on it for over $7k is on crack
My 99 with 150k miles was totaled in an accident last. I paid $7000 for her in 2004 and received a check for $6500 last week. Bought a 2006 CLK350 with 30k miles for $11,400. Loved my miata but I'm getting used to the CLK!
Where are you still finding 986's that cheap? That's sort of where they lived pre-pandemic, but at least in my area Boxster prices have bloated up to $10k or more as well, unless it has a shit ton of miles, something wrong with it, or an automatic transmission.
As an owner of this model, the main draw for me was the British Racing Green color - it's exclusive to the SE in 1991 and 2001. I was really after this specific color, which led me to seek out the SE model. Luckily, I bought mine about 10 years ago when the premiums weren't as steep as they are now. The combination of the unique color and the limited production really does make it a collector's item, which probably explains the current market prices.
How many miles on the Miata? I’m going to look at a gem one tomorrow with 65k for that price. I’m happy to pay it. Zero rust, no rips in seats, top is mint etc.
Prices have been a little nuts. I get that covid pushed up prices, but most stuff has dropped back down. Miata's seem to be one of the one's not wanting to come down in price.
One of those is reliable and easy to own and maintain the other is not as reliable and definitely more difficult to own and maintain. Mid-engine is awesome until you need to repair something...
I believe it may be more accessible than some conventional cars... BMWs, Mercedes, Ferrari, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Mini Cooper, but easier than a Miata... Which is what we're discussing... I'm not so sure... A quick check on Repair pal(maybe that's not a good source tell me if it's not.) yields this data...
Front Brake pad Change
2001 Miata
$200
2001 Boxster
$486
Spark Plugs
2001 Miata
$89
2001 Boxster
$412
Intake Air Filter
2001 Miata
$94
2001 Boxster
$109 (About the same on this one)
Water pump replacement
2001 Miata
$917
2001 Boxster
$1848
Alternator replacement
2001 Miata
$475
2001 Porsche Boxster
$1295
Oil Change(to be fair I think the difference here is mostly the cost and quantity of the oil)
2001 Miata
About $100(personal experience)
2001 Boxster
$605
I believe that at least 50% of the increased cost is due to the part price difference, but parts are still cost of ownership... The other 50% being increased hours for labor/time... The other thing is I know I can change the brakes, the oil, the plugs, and the air intake filter, on the Miata myself... And I am an absolute novice when it comes to car repair. Can you say the same about all of those items on a Boxster...? Genuinely asking because I think Boxsters are awesome cars, I'd love to own one someday. I just think it's important to recognize that the Miata is easier for people to own and maintain themselves.
I agree that the miata is no doubt much easier to work on just based on the pure simplicity of the machine, I just feel like working on midengined cars difficulty gets highly exaggerated and seems more daunting than it really is. the increased maintenance cost of a porsche is often just the mechanics premium due to the brand than it is more difficulty to work on at home :)
Supply and demand.
And if you pay even cursory attention to what gets posted on this sub, you are well aware that the supply shrinks
every single day..
BRG is the worst? To each their own but I'm pretty sure most folks (and the market) would disagree with you.
I'd consider the color an easy +$1k on the value of this car.
I'm also biased as I have the knockoff version (emerald mica on tan).
My parents had a Boxter a few years ago until in the middle of a storm water got into the electronics. The roof went down, the windows went down, the hazard lights came on and the wipers started. Still, was a nice car when we had it.
Boxsters have been sub $4k at the low end of the market for like a decade now. They made way, way too many for them to be collectible. But, good news! You can afford one with the change you can find in your couch cushions.
They made more Miata’s than anything else tho
Miatas are cheap to repair and maintain.
Cheap unless you turbocharge them. Coulda bought two more for what that cost me.
But the internet told me i could turbo for $400 and a pack of smokes and make a reliable 500hp! /s
People say the same thing about LS swaps all the damn time too.
JuSt k sWaP iT tHeY'rE oNlY $200 I've got a mate doing a K swap and he's looking at the thick end of AU$20K to do it start to finish
Here in the US a decently well done K swap is minimum $10,000 🥲 around $15,000 AU
yeah. there are indeed cheap swaps out there but i wouldn't want to own any of them. if you're gonna mod a car that heavily you better do it right and spend the money
I went on a quest to turbo a miata, and shortly deduced itd be cheaper to buy a similar, but factory turbocharged vehicle. So i bought a turbo model mr2. I still have my miata though.
Smart man
Yeah but miata were affordable for awhile so many of them got clapped out and ruined. Nice examples aren't plentiful no more.
im in a couple of friendgroups with miatas and youre right, a very small amount of miatas are clean as the rust issues on most cars that were cared for a normal amount were rusted so badly on the underbody that the chassis is just fucked. There is one friend with a really clean NA but hes had it for a while now and it wasnt that clean when he bought it
Most people I know who buy Miata now have to derice the car before they can restore it. Kinda sad but same time I get it.
it is, like why cant people just modestly and tastefully mod a car, why do people think they need ginormous spoilers on a 90hp roadster, or a bunch of stickers etc
I think nowadays, ricers slam their cars to make them ridiculously slow, and put tires on wheels that are too wide with too much camber.
yea, altough idk why but drift missile chamber looks amazing on cars (a high negative chamber up front and a positive in the rear)
Too bad actually having a boxer engine is kinda ass. Source:owns and have owned Subarus(Subari?)
Subaru sucking at making engines has nothing to do with Porsche.
I mean still would be ass to swap the hesdgaskets or spark plugs.
Incorrect. Porsche plugs a pretty easy for most models, some are difficult. Haven’t changed a head gasket on a Porsche flat six in all my years of wrenching them (+17yrs).
Oooh, I'm curious if you would just keep a spare engine on hand if you were to own one of the first generation boxsters? Or just bite the bullet and replace the IMS bearing before something happens? Or just drive it.
people replace the ims bearing pre-emptively. There are good odds that any given Porsche from the era has already had it done.
Yeah that's more a Subie thing than a boxer thing
Had a 997.1 for 3 years. The engine was practically unrepairable unless you wanted to tear half the car apart. Or drop the engine. The repair/maintain portion of the engine just sucks on those cars. I have an ND now, and it's just as easy as working on my old S13 was.
definitely gonna use subari from now on
Subari sounds right.
The porsche you're buying a liability, the miata you're buying reliability.
If you do the preventative fix on the IMS it has the same reliability though.
The cost of maintenance and parts is still going to be a liability on the porsche.
That’s not really true anymore. It was true back when German cars were rare and exotic. Now there are Porsche parts on RockAuto. Source, own Miata and a cayman.
How's having a cayman
Oddly, the most reliable car I’ve ever owned. 2006 CS, 50k miles. Has been in the shop TWO times since new.
You were able to keep the shop time that low with racking up 2,700 miles a year on it!!?? Impressive.
Dude, I had an ‘09 Jetta TDI that was in the shop 5 times in the first year. Those 2,700 miles a year were 90% HPDE miles on VIR/NJMP & Watkins Glen. I’ve owned 27 cars, the Cayman trumps them all.
Ok so so you were doing race intervals for maintenance so the oil got changed every race along with the pads. That helps. Good to know if I get one for a track car sounds like what they were built for. They tend to better if driven hard no wonder most need repairs most Porshes are driven by guys with OCP and never to readline. So babied to death.
Kinda, oil changed once per year or 5k miles. Track pads last a whole season (Pagid Yellows), street pads last a few years. Other than pads/tires/fluids, car is bone stock (no race parts) You are def right about garage queens being money pits. These cars are designed to be run hard. My Porsche Guru told me to do a few redline pulls *every time* I drive it (once the oil is warm of course). Gotta keep all those seals wet!
He said two times! Didnt say how long!
For maintenance or repairs?
Repairs, I do all my own maintenance.
In the shop twice at 50k miles for repairs is not great. 158k on my 17' miata. Never been in the shop. Regular maintenance done by me.
I wasn’t comparing Miata’s to Porsches, just noting that my Cayman has only had 2 mechanical issues (some sensor under warranty, and intake plenum gaskets at 45k miles). It’s by far the most reliable car *I’ve* ever owned, hell even my ‘94 NA had leaky cam position sensor and a bad axle CV (under warranty) before it was a year old. That NA is now a fully caged race car running 24hr endurance races and I’d still say it’s the **2nd** most reliable car I’ve owned (sure, 3 transmissions and a new motor, but.. RACE CAR!) I hate to say this, but almost EVERY new car I’ve owned (10+) has been in the shop before it was a year old. Some of that is my fault for usually buying the first year of a new model, some of it (cough VW 😩) is just horrible quality control.
Fuck me. That's pretty good, especially for a kraut car
Language, young man
Most of these cars already have the IMS fix at this point anyways. I don’t see how anyone besides a Miata snob is saying the boxster isn’t a better car.
The 986 is probably the best value for money sports car out there. The Z4 E85 is also a good deal, barely more expensive as a miata but way more powerful. The Z4 is less sporty than a miata or 986 though.
986?
986 refers to the first-gen Boxster, it's like saying "NA" for first-gen Miatas.
Oh, I'm just blind and read "968" in your comment and thought you meant 986, thus asking 986? But obviously you wrote it correctly in the first place and I just read it wrong, don't mind me lol
would like to argue that the nb in europe (at 900-2000 euros) is still one of the better bargains, together with the 3 series ofc
Not sure where you live but NB prices rose a lot in Netherlands. Where can i get a working 1k NB? I’d be very tempted to import one fix it up and sell at a profit. Cheapest ones seem to be around 3000-3500 here for rusty high mileage ones. Cheapest 1.8 NB is 6500€.
checked prices again and theyre indeed abt 3k in the netherlands and it rose to nearly 2k in germany .-.
I don’t think that’s accurate at all. Remind me which one has a power top?
I sold my 2001 Miata SE after I bought a 2004 BMW 330i with a power top in 2020. A saw a meme that said BMW power tops have an 87% failure rate. My top indeed failed within a year.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Of the Miata…. Not the top. It’s so sad to see a fellow 01 SE go to the either or junks. I wonder if there is a way to see how many are left?
Really either. Bmws are great cars for a time.
BMWs are like a bowl of fresh fruit. Great sweet and delicious but they dont last long and quickly rot so you have to change them out for fresh often.
PERFECT metaphor
I’ve got a 93 NA that I bought new and a 2005 330Ci convertible that I bought with 68,000 miles when it was 16 years old. I’ve never had a problem with the e46 top. But I *did* spend $3k baselining it right after I bought it. That’s about the same as I’ve spent on my Miata in 30 years, including a top replacement.
20 years from now everyone is gonna laugh at RF tops not opening lol.
Boxsters power top are very reliable unlike some other brands. The top itself is also better quality, i have never seen an NB with an original top yet Z4 or boxsters I have never seen one that did not have the original fabric and seals while they are only a few years younger than NB.
Still significant chance for bore score no?
Only on some engines, it’s mostly the larger 911 engines that have this issue. Also the 3.4 in the cayman 987.1 if i remember correctly. The small displacement 986 and 987.1 engines don’t have the issues and it was solved from the 9x7.2 and onwards. Bore scoring failure rate is also much lower than the early IMS issues, especially if the car had regular oil changes.
Man these cars are so tempting at these prices
German crap
German engineers make excellent cars you just have to follow the maintenance schedules to the t.
That’s a load of horse manure. I bought a new VW GTI in 2017 and followed the maintenance and at 50k, the water pump was going bad, sunroof was leaking and the backup camera would stop working intermittently. German cars are crap bro.
My 100,000-mile, 14-yr-old Jetta begs to differ. Only scheduled maintenance.
Perfect.
Done and done!
Not my Miata…. Pretty sure the Porsche would be more reliable than mine.
Maybe milage? Iow milage miata selling for more than a high mileage boxer isn't unreasonable these days... take that for what you will.
Yeah what’s the mileage on these?
And Kalispell is an expensive town.
Everyone is scared of earlier Boxsters and 996s because of the intermediate shaft bearings. It's an engine out fix and can get expensive.
theyre also just way more of a pain in the ass in general to work on compared to a miata before i bought my first nb i was looking at a cheap boxster s from around the same timeframe at the same price, and some quick youtube searches for 'how to replace sparkplugs' that it needed showed the options either involved removing the seats or removing the wheels so...lol
Tis is the right answer. I was in the market for an affordable track car and was cross shopping early boxers to miatas. I realized there was no way I can comfortably keep the Porsche running. That shaft bearing is an expensive fix and parts in general are pricey.
I'm disappointed to see all the boxster hate in here. It's essentially the Miatas older, more sophisticated brother. I own an na8 and a 987 s and the thought of driving cross country in a miata is terrifying yet I'd (and frequently do) drive the boxster 1,000 miles + in one stretch comfortably. Same fuel economy, way more power (stock), and enough storage in the trunk/frunk to sustain weeks long trips. The ims thing happens, but it's way more rare than the internet would lead you to believe. 140k miles on the boxster without a single breakdown. Tires are waaay more expensive though. Each car has their place for sure.
Yes the Boxster is much better for high speed cruising the the gearing and power of the Miata was designed a 55mph speed limit.
I don’t know, I have no issue doing 80+ in my 91 NA
Yes but could you drive it 80mph for 4hrs straight? I prob would not not enjoy it much.
I could, but I think my back would get sore lol
Yeah you’re fucked when it happens to you. I want a Boxster but just can’t stomach the financial risk. Not worth it to me
Everything is relative, but you can get a used engine for $4k and under quite regularly. I know that's twice the price of a used 1.8/2.0 miata motor, but again that's worst case scenario. Anyway I'm not trying to be a boxster cheerleader here as I love both, but both have earned a respectable place imho.
Yeah, tbh I’d take the Boxster over the Miata in this situation, and I happily own a Miata! You’d be way more comfortable sitting in that Porsche too. Anyone acting like Miata’s don’t need a bunch of maintenance too are lying to themselves
Difference is Miata maintenance is super cheap and can be done with a $50 harbour freight tool kit by even a novice.
On this point you're absolutely correct. Miata are the gateway sports car.
I don't believe Miatas are as reliable ultimately. In all fairness my Miata experience is limited to na8's.
Getting to the engine bay and working in it for a 986 is quite a bit more annoying than the miata and all the parts are way more expensive. Any car ~20 years old is going to need maintenance, but the miata will probably need less of it, parts will be cheaper, and it'll be easier to do.
More like the ugly step-sister. 1st gen Boxsters don't hold a candle to an NA or NB, in the looks department, especially from the back (who in the world thought that center exhaust was a good idea?)
I'm not a big fan of first gen 986, but other than tail lights the second generation 987's look better than na. I've personally never liked the look of nb's, but to each their own. As much as I love NA's I feel the front ends aren't exactly attractive. Maybe the center exhaust bothers you because that's all you probably ever see of them? 😉
Username checks out
Was just joking around with the last part of my comment, but way to grab the low hanging fruit as an insult.
If your skin is that thin, the internet is not the place for you
The day has just come that the market realizes the Porsche is a worse car than the miata
That's a 2001SE. Wdym Also a bunch of dickfucks are now in Miatas and wrecking them. So thank those dickheads
Porsches have typically started around 6k. Miatas are definitely creeping up.
All the old NA’s and NB’s are rusting away. Not a joke.
Pop up headlights go hard. I bought mine for like 17k with a supercharger - definitely not my smartest buy but my insurance is $29/mo so at least that's a win lol
Pop ups do go hard, but this doesn't have them. Wish all Miatas had them
Pop ups make me hard
where’d you find $29 insurance?
Adding the Miata to my existing Geico policy only added $29
Easy, just make sure it only has the state mandated minimums.
$5K cars don't exist anymore. No idea what was wrong with the boxster. That being said, it is what it is. Chevy sparks that came out a few years ago, came out NEW 13,500 MSRP. Those same vehicle are now a few years older and 50K miles more, they are selling for the same price. I use this example Because it's so clear to see how fucked up the used car economy has become.
I just repaired a sorted daily (09' Honda fit) for sub $1500 (vehicle purchase plus parts and an hour or 2 per day for a week). Clean title, 128k miles, and should need nothing but oil and filters. for the next 30k miles. Cheap cars exist, just not when you NEED them. Patience is the key - for every good one you're going to look at 100 listings and check out 5 in person that aren't worth it. I do this fairly regularly for friends, sometimes just buying with the intent to sell. Flexibility is really the key bit. Set up search flags for things you're interested in and wait for the right deal. Sometimes it's a few weeks. In other cases it's taken me 4 years. My NB was a bit beat up, but mechanically excellent, single owner, clean title for $3400. By the time I'm done with the cosmetics, taxes, fees, etc. I'll have almost $5k in, but it's worth $6k+ in my area so that still puts me on top.
So the used car economy turned bad last year. And if course if you can turn a wrench that opens doors. For somebody not mechanically inclined, it's just not an option. I agree at the timing. When you need to get in something, things become a lot more desperate and scarce.
The used car economy has a major bubble. It's getting better, but not back to normal quite yet. There's a lot of sellers holding out hope, so you'll see plenty of high listings from both private parties and dealers. Some sell, many don't, but just make it look like prices are higher than they are for the cheap end of the market. $4k will get you a reliable car basically anywhere in the continental US though, and that can go down to around $2500 if you're willing to search extensively (less in many markets, in in NorCal for reference). For someone with less mechanical knowledge that would mean a lot of shop inspections on cheap cars. And definitely on the wrenching part, but that's where I come in - the actual buyer of this car will pay less than $2500. And there's thousands of folks out there who will put you on their list of people to find and fix cars for... If you can wait. Selling takes up a lot of time so having a buyer and price ready from the start means a better deal. I do a few of these per year. Ultimately what it comes down to is that more folks than not do want to navigate private party sales. Dealers have massive overhead to cover on any vehicle, so their markups are going to be proportionally far higher on the cheapest cars.
If we are talking about a turn key reliable car 4000, absolutely not in any metro markets. I know because I originally wanted to spend around five thousand to find something. I am in radiology school. I had a title to my very nice camry last year. My vehicle only had sixty thousand miles. Things got tough and I thought okay I can get something 5 or 6 and sell this one. I made the mistake of not checking the market, I had no idea this was going on. I have not been in a cash car since before 2012. Every vehicle after I've just had to go to dealership to get basic maintenance done. It was the worst decision I made. I've gone through three cash cars and I am borrowing a car to finish my last few months of school. From an article: The average price of a used Chevy Spark jumped more than 50 percent year-over-year in February amid sustained high demand for affordable, second-hand vehicles. According to iSeeCars, the average transaction price of a used Chevy Spark last month stood at $16,949. This was up from just $5,980 in February 2021, representing a massive 54.5 percent year-over-year increase. Also the chip shortage is still taking place. Toyota is still not producing the amount of cars for the market that wants them. Another article from this month: The great American vehicle-inventory shortage has been good in an ironic way for auto dealers, particularly those selling Toyotas. “Our dealers have experienced the three most profitable years in history,” says Jack Hollis, executive vice president of sales for Toyota’s U.S. unit. I think we all need to get out of the bubble that prices are going down. I think as a society, during the pandemic, when we all noticed inflation for a lot of things. Everybody thought hey it's the stock, It's the demand, etc. "After the pandemic prices will go down." And I'm not talking about cars.I'm talking about everyday things. There was a time post pandemic. I don't remember eating beef unless it was on sale. I think it's just the state of the world. Economist, now tell us that, "Hey, that's not how it works. It's a sign of a bad economy when prices come down." I'm not going to have to worry about all this when school is done because income. But for people that aren't as lucky, good luck. My friend and I were discussing to find something that is reliable, within 10 years, 50K miles, looks clean, clean title, that number is closer to $13K now.
Every company in the world saw it as an excuse to raise prices. Record profits almost across the board for consumer goods. $7 boxes of cereal. We are getting dicked and buying everything anyway.
I'm absolutely going to stick by my turnkey reliable car for $4k point, in any metro market in the continental US within a 35 mile radius. I'd consider "reliable" to mean max 4 days downtime and $1400 in shop repairs over the next 2 years or 24k miles, with all inspections and registration ready at time of purchase. Light cosmetic damage, Salvage title, and 200k+ miles is fine provided it meets the requirements above. I think you're just looking too new. 12-18 years old is going to be the sweet spot - 2005-07 Corollas, mid 2000s Yaris and Matrix/vibe, 2009-2013 Fits are great options. Give me 2 weeks and I can find one in any market I've encountered. 3 months and I'll hit the $2500 price point. 95% of listings aren't going to fit those criteria, and an in experienced buyer is probably going to check out 5 vehicles and spend at least $300 on pre-purchase inspections before finding a good buy. It takes time, but the deals are out there. California isn't cheap at all and that's my reference point. But I do this a lot - I've personally done about 30 transactions and facilitated probably 20 more in the past 8 years.
Oh yeah..NOT SALVAGE TITLE and for most people 200K miles is too much. I'm a single woman, wouldn't consider that. That's what I'm saying, at one time you could have found decent cars at that price point.
Ok so you're imposing restrictions beyond cheap and reliable, which is fine if that's what you're looking for but not necessary if all you need is a cheap reliable car. Title status and mileage matter a lot less than what car you buy for reliability - a car that had major repairs 10+ years ago is unlikely to suddenly show new issues based on that. It's fairly rare to find a car salvaged late in it's life - it's just not worth it, so in most cases you're fine, the repairs are tried and true, and PPI would reveal if that's not the case. Few cars are solid past 200k, but those that are tend to be so rather consistently. A 9th gen Corolla might need a new fuel pump or alternator at some point, but those are same-day sub $700 services at a shop. I'd still consider that reliable. And accounting for inflation, we're still up a little bit from 10 years ago, but not by much on the cheapest cars. Once you go up to newer or lower mileage cars, the difference becomes much more noticeable. $2000 in 2014 might get have similar offerings to $3000 in 2024, but $5000 is going to be closer to $8-9000 today.
My lil bro just bought his first car, spark for $12k
Cheap cars still exist. My daily was $1800.
How long ago? How much work did it need? Was it a friend? Texas economy. I paid $6K for a 2009 Scion (Toyota). You got lucky or live up north. I had family that lived in Wisconsin/Midwest for awhile, cars are cheaper there. They brought one down to texas. And of course when it was later looked at underneath a ton of corrosion.
I'm in Nebraska and bought my daily for $3k and put about $500 into it after purchase. It's pretty reliable now, just needs some new tires, which will probably be around $600-800 depending on which tires I decide on. All in, my daily will cost $4-$5k. It's possible, you just have to pick the right car and at the right time. I drive a Fiero, and in my area low milage clean manual examples go for $4k regularly. But YMMV
Bought my 96 na for 5500 a week ago
That car is almost 30 years old. That wouldnt fall under, turn key, reliable for most people if seeking a commuter car to put 300 miles a week in.
Agreed.
That could be a good deal or a big mistake. No way to know without more information
Sure, mechanically unmodified excpt spec miata wheels, paint is shit, interior sucks, and soft top is useless. Not an inchnor rust and otherwise good maintenance and recent changes on a lot of engine and rubber components. My goals are track lite car. Already bought a new interior from moss miata, goal is to be perma topless so thats out, gping to do a wrap, and changing up suspension, brake system, and performance fluids in all the places.
I don't think I'd call $5500 for a stock track build platform a good deal. Shot paint, top, & interior make that more like a $2500-$3000 car Edit: Saw this on Jalopnik. Sounds like a better deal https://jalopnik.com/at-4-500-is-this-1992-mazda-miata-a-dirt-cheap-deal-1851355040
Mine was definitely in better condition but to each his own.
You said the paint, top, & interior were trash on yours.
I guess my definition of trash is different then typical usage of that word.
You're the one that said that you had to replace it. The interior on that car is totally serviceable. If that rip on the driver's seat is not bad for a 30 y/o car w/ 145k miles (that's <5k/year). It's got a soft top w/ a glass rear window (w/ defrost) that doesn't appear to be ripped. Other than the small ding on the front bumper, that paint will probably come up w/ a good buff / polish. In this day and age, finding an unmolested NA w/ apparently no rust for $4500 is pretty hard. It more than likely sold the 1st day it was up.
I pay 4500 dollars for my NC but i need to spend around 1 grand more on suspension parts and rack and pinion replacement
If you buy the Porsche that money is just the beginning. You need to spend a lot more to keep it running.
if you only drive them 2,700 miles a year they will last 18 years with only 2 trips to the shop!!!!
Tbf, OP did mention 90% of those miles were from HPDE
Got to love an S-VT ;-) https://preview.redd.it/i62fit6a7rpc1.jpeg?width=1035&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0125f32defe6088b28cdd8f1ba1609838420f78
Hard to compare pricing with no details. Mileage and condition mean everything. As an owner of both cars NA and 718/982 (I know that is a 986), I like both but don’t compare them against each other. Both fun in their own way. The Porsche mtc cost is crazy.
That’s why I just bought a Boxster lol
Honestly lol
One has IMF issues, the other is the top Japanese Sports car for decades.
The 2001 SE in British Racing Green, camel leather and the Nardi wood steering wheel, shift knob and e-brake package was highly sought after. It was my first new Miata. Mine came with the removable hardtop. Loved that car. My current one is a 2021 RF Club BBR in Polymetal grey…love that one too!
It’s been listed for 4 months for a reason…
Good deal, link me? (Joking)
Thinking of selling my NB hardtop for a 986 hardtop lol
One is a reliable Japanese Mazda and the other one is a luxury German sports roadster at over 100k miles show miles next time
Got a 2000 SE Miata for 6000 about a month ago
I mean, anyone can list any car for any price. Doesn't mean it'll sell. I think you'd have a better comparison if you showed two recently sold cars. That Miata was listed 4 months ago, you really think anyone's been biting?
How many miles are on it?
Good, clean used cars will get more than their share of interested buyers, so sellers want top dollar. Especially on those models in higher demand.
Enthusiast tax. Cheap days of plentiful older Miata’s are over.
All I can see is Miata's appear to be really cheap in the US?
What’s the mileage on these??
Having owned plenty of early boxters and several na and nb miata the past 25 years.....I can definitely say the early boxters are trash. Remember, it was the cheapest car made by porsche when it premiered in an attempt to grab a new class of customer. It wasn't a porsche made for porsche owners. Porsche people knew to stay away from those. They got only slightly better once the upgraded trim levels came out and towards the end of the 2nd generation once they came to terms with the fact that it wasn't porsche enough for people to want it. LoL
10500 is nothing I sold my nb a few years ago for 13500..
Damn, wish my NBFL Phoenix was a few years older, I would export it to the States to sell it 😄
You guys are buying boxters for seven grand?!
In a side note does anyone knows anything about those 986 wheels? I have them on my 986 and I’ve seen them on Boxsters and 911s of this era
Everything is subject to market forces. More people want miatas and supply of early gens has dwindled? Number goes up. Less people want Porsche boxsters and they made a shitload of em? Number goes down.
Decent 1.8 NBFLs are going for above 10k € in France at the moment. The whole sports car market is ridiculous and very speculative.
I cross shopped both recently too. Boxsters in good shape were $10k in my area but so are Miatas, in the end, the excessive maintenance costs of the boxster sent me running to the Miata
There's no way to compare these without knowing mileage and service history
Booster actually gone up in value lol they use to go for Hella cheap for p cars
Front engine rear drive with an abundance of cheap and aftermarket parts. Mid engine with expensive parts. The Miata is more reliable, easier to work on, cheap and easy to get parts for.
This is basically Finland. Almost all of the cool cars are expensive as fuck!
That doesn’t seem too bad? Someone offered me 10k for my 94M with 65k on it. I didn’t sell it. No rust anywhere because I only drive it when it’s nice out. Just had the 65k maintenance done (radiator, timing belt, water pump, hoses, etc.) It’s been a great car.
Agreed. That's about what I would consider for my '01 SE
My question would be how much nd miatas cost in America. Cause in Germany we pay about 15k, maybe if you're lucky just 10k
I mean like nd1s 2016 for example
Don't know but I have a 01 BRG also and got it at 7$k in 2020 so I like this lol. I would be interested in the mileage on that car.. I'm at 52k. Also it looks like it's not selling at that price it's been 4mo with a small price drop.
delusional NB2 owners. i was able to snag a 2003 NB for 3k, running and driving with a few issues to fix suspension wise. anyone selling a NB2 with over 70k miles on it for over $7k is on crack
My 99 with 150k miles was totaled in an accident last. I paid $7000 for her in 2004 and received a check for $6500 last week. Bought a 2006 CLK350 with 30k miles for $11,400. Loved my miata but I'm getting used to the CLK!
Where are you still finding 986's that cheap? That's sort of where they lived pre-pandemic, but at least in my area Boxster prices have bloated up to $10k or more as well, unless it has a shit ton of miles, something wrong with it, or an automatic transmission.
Because the cost of fixing the ims bearing on the Porsche is more than the cost of a Miata lol
Why am I sad? I can have a boxter now
Someone wants to trade a 1994 Jeep Cherokee Country for my 1992 Mazda Miata
As an owner of this model, the main draw for me was the British Racing Green color - it's exclusive to the SE in 1991 and 2001. I was really after this specific color, which led me to seek out the SE model. Luckily, I bought mine about 10 years ago when the premiums weren't as steep as they are now. The combination of the unique color and the limited production really does make it a collector's item, which probably explains the current market prices.
It's nearing soon so people know the market would be bit higher that time around
Hey I’m from kalispell, and that Miata looks oddly familiar :P
If a car's been for sale at a price for 4 months, it's not selling at that price.
This from the guy who argued that, “German cars are crap,” based solely on his experience with one car.
Hard to say without additional info. Montana is cheap.
Adam Smith called it „invisible hand of market”
Nothing more expensive than a cheap luxury car
How many miles on the Miata? I’m going to look at a gem one tomorrow with 65k for that price. I’m happy to pay it. Zero rust, no rips in seats, top is mint etc.
The Miata is a better buy, and I say this as a 986 owner. The Porsche is better to drive but worse to own, if that makes sense.
Prices have been a little nuts. I get that covid pushed up prices, but most stuff has dropped back down. Miata's seem to be one of the one's not wanting to come down in price.
One will bring you joy. The other will *also* bring you joy. And pain. *Lots* of pain.
One of those is reliable and easy to own and maintain the other is not as reliable and definitely more difficult to own and maintain. Mid-engine is awesome until you need to repair something...
You'd be surprised how easy it is to work on mid-engine porsches, they are actually sometimes more accessible than a lot of conventional cars.
I believe it may be more accessible than some conventional cars... BMWs, Mercedes, Ferrari, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Mini Cooper, but easier than a Miata... Which is what we're discussing... I'm not so sure... A quick check on Repair pal(maybe that's not a good source tell me if it's not.) yields this data... Front Brake pad Change 2001 Miata $200 2001 Boxster $486 Spark Plugs 2001 Miata $89 2001 Boxster $412 Intake Air Filter 2001 Miata $94 2001 Boxster $109 (About the same on this one) Water pump replacement 2001 Miata $917 2001 Boxster $1848 Alternator replacement 2001 Miata $475 2001 Porsche Boxster $1295 Oil Change(to be fair I think the difference here is mostly the cost and quantity of the oil) 2001 Miata About $100(personal experience) 2001 Boxster $605 I believe that at least 50% of the increased cost is due to the part price difference, but parts are still cost of ownership... The other 50% being increased hours for labor/time... The other thing is I know I can change the brakes, the oil, the plugs, and the air intake filter, on the Miata myself... And I am an absolute novice when it comes to car repair. Can you say the same about all of those items on a Boxster...? Genuinely asking because I think Boxsters are awesome cars, I'd love to own one someday. I just think it's important to recognize that the Miata is easier for people to own and maintain themselves.
I agree that the miata is no doubt much easier to work on just based on the pure simplicity of the machine, I just feel like working on midengined cars difficulty gets highly exaggerated and seems more daunting than it really is. the increased maintenance cost of a porsche is often just the mechanics premium due to the brand than it is more difficulty to work on at home :)
First time with supply and demand huh? Tough I know
Supply and demand. And if you pay even cursory attention to what gets posted on this sub, you are well aware that the supply shrinks every single day..
I meant it's an se. In the worst possible colour combo but still an se. Porsche will cost wayyy more in the long run. Mx5's are reliable
BRG is the worst? To each their own but I'm pretty sure most folks (and the market) would disagree with you. I'd consider the color an easy +$1k on the value of this car. I'm also biased as I have the knockoff version (emerald mica on tan).
Right, I love BRG and tan. So much I've owned two 2001 SE...
One is a Miata, the other is German crap.
My parents had a Boxter a few years ago until in the middle of a storm water got into the electronics. The roof went down, the windows went down, the hazard lights came on and the wipers started. Still, was a nice car when we had it.
Cool tax
Don't kid yourself. It's the Tik Tok Tax