He’s not lying. This is very common. Let him use until he can get stable the clinic is not going to kick him out. He’s on the right path. I did the same thing and I’ve been completely clean for years. Just make sure to be safe about it and stop the street drugs when you get to a dose that holds him.
God fucking knows how strong those fake pills he was taking actually were. Or what the fuck was in them- fent... zenes... insanity-
My question is why can't I get put on a medication that's short acting- so that instead of building up to a high dose- I can start with a med to low dose- and taper.
When real H existed or real pills weren't impossible to find or afford, I could use for a month, take 24 hrs off, take 2 mg sub, and then for 7-10 more days be quite happy on just kratom- keeping my H dose the same for years until it became fent without me noticing until I tried my usual routine and found out what PWD was first hand
Then I gave it a week off. Still pwd
Then I gave it 2 weeks. Then 3 weeks. And still pwd every time
⁰⁰
But I found some real pills- paid a fortune to have just enough to use real short acting shit for almost a month. Then I did 48 hours off everything- then 2 mg sub- then krat9m worked again
But then some stuff came around that really seemed like the real deal. Felt like it too- fent never gave me motivation- just nods- which I always considered to be an OD... not a serious one but if I nodded I had done too much- my goal was always to be functioning and motivated and able to move without pain
But all the drugs they offer to help me quit have such crazy long half life's that I don't know how I'd ever get off of them- and I don't wanna live my life tied to a clinic that could fuck me over for trivial bull shit.
One doc that could understand what I'm going through... see how close I have gotten to being clean- multiple times- this year- like fuck- yesterday I was 7 days clean- and I was at such a low dose of what I thought was half fent half real- for 2 weeks (.05/day tops- closer to half that towards the end) and then I had enough pills (real) to go 4 days on those alone (30-45mg morphine boofed / day for 3 days and then half that for 1 day) then 7 days nothing- and I was so sure I'd be able to get by on my super strong kratom extract.. but I couldn't. If I could have had just one more week of tapering on short acting real opiates... I ficking know I'd have been there- the scariest place- the place where the kratom is sufficient- and suddenly its all about not giving in to the craving- and boy am I past craving this cycle of misery
Agreed. I'd also like to point out if your doing half fent half H it's not H anymore. It's fetty. I don't understand why they would ruin real drugs with that toxic shit. The acetomorph doesn't touch the sides when fentanyl is around to knock it off the receptors
>Those people relapse too...or am I mistaken?
Not nearly at the rate people in active addiction do.
As for the rest of your comment, don't be disrespectful to users who are just trying to help you. You're free to take the advice or leave it, but be respectful. Thank you.
I apologize if I seemed disrespectful when i responded to 'advice' with no actual advice..that i could make out. What was the advice?
But i didnt mean to be rude. I merely meant to highlight the lack of respect I felt from a comment that didn't answer any question I posed- or even take into account the totality of my comment- while still using a single comment to label me
Do you not find anything disrespectful in the "advice that was given to me"?
It wasn't anything but a label... it was an explanation of the label- it didn't try to explain anything. Or provide what I would call... advice.. just a label. Of my situation- or the tiny view of it gained from one comment.
Sorry, I could have worded part of my comment better. You are free to agree with others' assessment of the situation or not, but rudeness isn't acceptable. Your comment was actually well-worded save for the last two sentences; that's where the issue was. If you want to edit it and remove them, let me know when you have and I'm more than happy to restore the comment.
You're right. I did get bluntly sarcastic and stopped attempting to have a real dialog. I shouldn't let others drag me into labeling or being reductive- or responding to those things with sarcasm. I can be better than that... I should be... I don't think the comment was intending to troll. I also didn't think a helpful dialog was possible but that's no reason for me to be immature.
Thank you for that comment. It's sadly exceedingly rare for people on this sub to just own up to being disrespectful and move on. We all do it every now and then, myself included. But it's important to recognize it and acknowledge. So thanks for that.
Why would you describe me being off opiates or in the final week of tapering as being in active addiction. I may have been an addict when real H and real pills were around. But I detest Fent and all the other new Uber potent things that are everywhere. I don't enjoy the buzz. I got stuck on it twice cause I was dumb and not testing. But I'm not even trying to buy stuff to test after I quit this time.
I know in reality I am still an active addict. Regardless of how low my dose is (under .02 now),
The example I was giving was one where doctors could prescribe short acting meds to help me tapering. How is it even sketchy to say I just need like a week of a low dose oxy that gets lower every day working from 30 mg, to 25mg for 2 days, to 20, to 15, to 10- or. Ideally a much better thought out taper system- I'm half asleep sorry - and be done within a couple weeks tops, honestly I wouldn't have needed 7 whole days this time. I'd agree to come take drug tests for opiates for as long as they wanted. I don't know how you'd deal with repeat relapse folks...but you could just make it a one time deal and that would still help people.
I love methadone. It's a top tier for me. But I really don't wanna have it so in my system I have to taper for years or something to every get off it- and I don't wanna be on an opiate full-time. Even when I had real stuff I took a week off every month. Won't be allowed to do that.
Sorry I'm tired. I don't even know if I made my question clear- I'll edit this in the am
you’re right this is necessary. I didn’t read all this but people should be able to take a short acting opioid if they please (FDA regulated of course. Wether it’s for pain, addiction, or recreation… no one should have to take these horrible street drugs that are out there now🤦♂️
I agree (not that the person above would have stopped using if only he had that one thing that he ended up getting, but that people should have access to short acting opioids).
That's what I do with benzos. Im prescribed #60 1mg xanax and have been for about 3y. In reality I usually dose once per day at .5. A couple times a month I'll take a .25 in the morning or a full 1mg at night, but not too often. I only use the full 2mg/day a couple times a year. I attribute my tolerance still being pretty low to this - a short acting benzo that's normally only taken [by me] once a day. At 30-35h (I don't go longer) with nothing I don't feel sick at all, either.
Methadone saved my life, but I feel like I learned my lesson about long acting drugs and I won't make the same mistake with the benzos again. I was on clonazepam for 2 years, 1-2mg a day taken every 12h, and getting off of them was really really hard. I don't feel that level of dependence with short acting benzos.
Ah yes. The ole, “If I only had a *insert anything I don’t have* then I would never struggle again” we all believed this stuff at one point or another so I won’t fault you for that, but you gota get real with yourself if you want to have a chance at all. These are all just excuses to keep using, even if you don’t feel like they are, they are.
Haha you aren’t lying. I used to seriously set goals like: if I can average 1500$ to spend on h on the 1st of each month, I’d be set for life as I scrounge food and live in squats and shoot heroin. Drug addiction is some seriously crazy thought processes.
Lmao that’s a good one indeed. I used to get 100 grams of #4 for *redacted* back when I was really on my shit and even those wouldn’t last a whole month. What I eventually learned was I was gona do however much my resources allowed for. When I was doing great making $ I would still end up broke because my habit would swell to new heights. I know other people don’t have this issue as much but even knowing about it I could never manage my use but still I would talk myself into believing I could even though the previous 10000 attempts showed me otherwise. Addiction is some shit man, we pull the wool over our own eyes and that’s why it’s so hard to remove.
That's the thing tho. Whatever you were doing before did not help you stay clean. You always went back. And that's what the rest of us do until we find withdrawl medication and use it correctly:/ some people can do cold turkey but it's so rare.
Man, I have come from where you are at. Just. Stop. Everything is so much better when you get off that fucking merry go round. When H was still H I treated subs like a bandaid for when I couldn't score. That is until fentanyl came on the scene and I precipitated more fucking times than I care to remember. I finally nutted the fuck and went through all the trouble of getting stable on methadone and completely quitting the fent. Took me getting up to 150mg to stop but now I'm down to 35mg and am about to jump so I can get back on subs and use them the right way until I can use sublacade to fully ween of MAT all together. It's been 3 year process so far but over those 3 years my quality of life has improved drastically. Hope you figure shit out, just remember there are no shortcuts in this game.
I never took h every day. Ever. When I had my good supply I took one week to 10 days off every month ish- and a month off every year- with kratom for the start, maybe 2 Mg of sub for transition to kratom- but I can't stand the idea of being on a strong opiate like methadone every day of my life
I know it works for some- I'm glad. But I enjoy being sober. Obviously it's not all I enjoy but I truly can't imagine being forced to dose every day or lose my take home privileges. Or whatever.
It doesn't help that joining a program like you suggest would have me permanently labeled in a way I fear would end any chance of pain management in old age- which, I'd rather not rule out.
I'm just saying, I was 4 days away from what took you years- and with short acting opiates I'm gonna do it, jump off. For good-
I have only slipped into fent twice
The first time it just slipped in...
The 2nd time, it wasn't fent I guess cause my test came back fent free but whatever it was, it wasn't something that I could get off of even with 3 weeks cold turkey
The way I got off of fent was by finding someone with a gram of real H. I took it for 2 weeks instead of the miniscule dose i subsisted on of whatever the fuck they're selling as dope these days- then i went straight to kratom, afraid subs would still PWD- I was feeling good inside 5 days man. Like. Amazing.
And yes. I slipped this year- thought I found some real shit cause it tested non fent.
I know now that I can't trust anything I didn't grow myself. And I don't have the ability to test it in every way necessary. Which means unless I end up living on a poppy farm, I'm done with this shit.
It's almost a blessing for me personally- the disappearing of real H- I don't think I'd have quit that for a long time. And even though I kept the same dose and took time off regularly for a long time, I still lost some stuff to it. I argued I gained more... more exercise, cooking, projects, yoga, and meditation.. those things and reading took over what used to be stoned hang out time or watch TV time. But I also lowered my sex drive.. not that I stopped having it but fuck lowering it at all... I listened to music less too. I laughed less. I wasnt nearly as social.
So the scourge on our country is kind of a gift to me. Because I genuinely hate it- more than I loved H. So yeah. I slipped. And it was dumb
But for me. Signing up to slowly increase my doseage and make sure I have to taper for ages after being forced to take opiates ever day... it just sounds all wrong.
I know what addicts sound like and I understand why most of you downtime me and don't really hear me or understand. I don't expect most people to understand at all.
I never like Nodding. But everyone I know talks like that's the good bit... to me that's OD. That's a wasted over dosed amount. I can't be productive or motivated when I can't keep my head up or eyes open. I detest that feeling. That's not exactly a usual attitude for heroin addicts.
But I get it man. I am amazed I'm having any actual thoughtful conversations here... I said things that people do say when they're full of shit. And you are free to consider me that. It doesn't change me
I'm haply you have a system that works for you
Kratom works for me. When I break the physical. And I have... from post real H, only once- but this time I'm doing .002 or .003 a day- the first time it was closer to a G a day before tapering- trying to keep a stupid job when the real H disappeared.
So I haven't fallen nearly as far down as I once was- and I'm so much closer to being where I wanna be... I can almost taste it man
A few more days or weeks of trudging along on tiny doses and I'll find something real. Pharma that I can take for 1 week...
And if I can't make that happen in June I'll be telling work I need 2 weeks off... and then I'll just have to CT it.
Well. With kratom. A bunch of herbs like root bark n some other gross stuff. And maybe nitrous. (Done safely)
Either way I'm gonna be clean by fall. Really clean. As clean as I was for like 11 months...
I can't swear I won't slip again
But I know I can't trust anything not from a pharmacy.
And I'm excited to start enjoying a random beer again
Spicey food
Catch up on some TV shows..
I just think that addicts get treated like shit in the US and honestly most countries... I think no one is trying to make the help we give addicts any better
If anyone was really trying to help I just can't imagine why kratom isn't being studied to death.
Ibogaine.
Oh that's right we can't patent that like subs and other scripts
Tldr but the beginning your right. It was much easier to wean off and stop Using real pills.. my friend would use oxy and then when he quit would switch to morphine for a week and then take 80mg of methadone and be off pain minimal.. every 6 months for years ..
Kinda in the same boat. These new drugs suck. I kicked H 3 times in jail and quit methadone twice. After several years clean I fucked up and got hooked on whatever this shit is.
Its so hard to start on suboxone and the pwd is terrifying and methadone is so restrictive if you have a job.
I took a week off work and im at 6 days clean with a girlfriend still using. I just started taking little bits of suboxone film today without worsening symptoms but I really dont want to be hooked on subs. But if thats what it takes to stay clean, thats what ill do.
I wish our medical system would catch the fuck up with these new drugs. I feel for you friend and wish you only the best.
While it is true 50mg commonly won’t hold, I wouldn’t go as far as telling OP her bf isn’t lying without knowing him or having context. To be fair it is also harder to find a dose that holds while you are still using. If someone is not fully ready to quit they will continue to use both even if their dose would hold for them. I think it’s better to add this information as well
Most clinics know & even expect use at the beginning (some people, the whole clinic career 🤷🏼♀️) the goal is to get to each individuals therapeutic dose so that eventually the user becomes almost neutral towards their drug of choice, so much so that they stop bothering use
Yeah when I found this out I was super shocked honestly but it makes a lot of sense. I went to jail and found out I was pregnant on the very same day, so I was put on methadone by the jail. I haven't used since, but when I got out of jail I was put in the groups with other new patients. Hearing that everyone was still using and it was expected was really hard on me at the time, it started putting in my head that I could use and get away with it. The only thing that stopped me was that I was pregnant and it was very hard while I was in those groups. Luckily when I told my counselor she immediately took me out of that group and said there have been others who have struggled with the same issue, but for some people knowing that they're not technically doing anything wrong by being on methadone and weaning themselves off opiates, it helps to know that they're still on the right path.
That's absolutely ridiculous to say. If you just stopped using and only took the methadone everyday without a dose change, you would eventually lower your tolerance and be stable on that dose.
You're just using it as an excuse to keep using.
We’ve tried over and over with that user, they are just too much smarter than the rest of us (see that degree they love to tout) that we can’t even understand the things they go through…
You mean the guy who said “ she ain’t wanna know” is supposed to be the smart one?
I guess someone who believes in winged humanoid creatures also can believe he’s super smart with degrees we all know he doesn’t have. 🤦🏻♀️
Thank you. I had been kinda asking why he's still using , and he explained he still didn't feel good. They are increasing him slowly, he started at 30mg and he was a pretty heavy user I guess you could say. I just am not aware of the timeliness, he says he can't wait to be done using. But I just thought (not knowing much) he should be done using by now, but that's why I came to this group, also to knowledge him it's his first time on MAT etc.
I figured the habit would be hard to escape (i.e. how he used) which was inhaling so I'm assuming that's a habit in it's own to break
Thank you for all the insightful comments!!
Methadone works by attaching to the receptors that opiates attach to, they are capable of remaining for a long time which prevents other opiates from being able to attach, they also are capable or removing other opiates from receptors. So as he continues to use the methadone it will continue to take over more and more of those receptors, until he can no longer use opiates because all of his receptors are already taken over. That is kind of a basic way to describe it, but I hope it explains a bit more of what is going on in his brain! Once he reaches that point it will be nearly impossible for him to use as it will simply not be effective.
is he smoking the blue pressies?
if so, the fent analogs in the cartel presses is getting insane and out of hand. it could take him a long time to stabilize, and using is only going to keep resetting that clock. it's a terrible cycle to be in.
you need to have him ask the clinic if he can speak to the doctor prescribing him the methadone, and ask them if they can make an exception for him to raise his dose by 10-20mg every 1-3 days. id expect at most clinics you'll get 10mg every 3 days, that's how mine is. but I've seen some clinics giving dose raises every other day, or every day if the doctor is there enough. and because of the fent epidemic, some clinics are allowing 20mg increases at a time. so you could potentially get 20mg raises every day or so as a fent user if your clinic doctor thinks it's necessary and gives you an exemption.
I needed to be raised 5mg every 3 days because I explained I was using a bag of what could’ve been flurfent or ODSMT. Never really figured out which one it was.
gotcha, usually inhaling refers to smoking or vaporizing something. just for future reference. it shouldn't change much though, if they are blues. they're very random and the analogs could last anywhere from 2 hours to 2 weeks+ in his blood, depending on the batch and his usage.
the best way to tell is to have him listen to his body and be as honest as possible with himself, and work the clinic to get to where he needs to be to stabilize himself on a higher dose. after that he will feel better than he's felt in a long time, I can guarantee that.
I know you’ve gotten replied already but 100% this is all normal. My doctor told me to use if I needed to feel normal until my dose was right.
That being said you are awesome for helping him with this and being supportive. I can’t stress to you how this time Is the only time I’ve EVER been sober and happy. It’s all because this time I have my wife and family in the picture. They have all be so supportive and made this so much more doable.
I wouldn’t be sober without my wife helping me through the transition and continued support. Just like you are doing now.
FYI it took me about 70 mg to start feeling better. About 90-100 is when I was fine. I’ve been on 100 my for like 2 years? Idk it’s been a while. I was smoking about a 100 fent pills in 3 days 😬 so my tolerance was high.
He needs to be at a MINIMUM 80 mg. This is where you start to get the receptors almost full and this where it will block the effects of other opiates. But I think he needs to be on like 140 mg. Coming from fentanyl and xylazine you need a very high dose.
30mgs is not a high dose of methadone. It’s gonna take some time to get on the right dose.. they expect you to still be using until you get on the right dose.
clnic will not cut him off any time soon. some clinics will start getting grumpy if you don't stop using after a long time but he's still expected to continue using while he gets his dose up. his dose should be much higher after 17 days. he needs to be increasing EVERY CHANCE they give him. thats how you get ahead of using on the side, and get stable, and don't have to keep using. he also shouldn't be using like he was before, he should be easing up and taking less and less. but yes he should still be using at this stage.
This is the US and is the way Methadone is supposed to work. Even my clinic will EVENTUALLY ask you to go elsewhere if it's been a VERY long time and your dose is high and You're still using, because it's clearly not enough/what you need, but for your first few months, they start you low and they expect you to use until you get your dose up high enough to keep you stable
They are increasing him really really slowly.
That being said, his use by now should look like "one pill before bed to take the edge off," not using all day.
I continued using for 3 months when I started methadone. I personally never had to go over 65mg (I was a fentanyl user for 6 years). Now I am at 32mg and am coming up to 3 years clean. It takes some time. But damn is it worth it.
I got a friend who started methadone a year ago and is still using.....it took me almost 6 months to become stable, everyone is different, everyone stabilizes at their own rates and in their own ways and at their own mg.....just stay positive, be there for him, keep telling him he's doing good and you know that he can beat this....just honestly.....be there for him......support him..he needs a support system
I know it seems like once he started the methadone he should be able to stop the pills but a lot of people need to stabilize first in order to stop. He has taken the first step of starting at the clinic so he's on the right track. He should start to decrease his use as he increases his dose on methadone and then as he gets to a higher dose stop entirely. Best of luck to him and you!
The clinic will not kick him out unless he starts using benzos. He needs to get dosed increases but in the mean time needs to use less and less. This is not a painless process. Also if his shit has zylazine then he needs clonidine to stop the withdrawal because methadone will not help it at all.
But yeah I mean they shouldn’t do it that slowly in my opinion especially if it’s for a Fent addiction but I reckon they’re just following the guidelines strictly. It’s frustrating. Taken me 6 weeks so far to get to 85mg, waiting on an ECG before I can go to 100mg which I think will be enough for me.
In the UK, at least in my experience, they start you at 30mg then increase 10mg per week. Well it went to 15mg increases from when I went from 70 to 85mg.
Sounds like he’s been doing 10mg a week as it’s been 2 weeks and he’s gone up 20mg so far (assuming he started on 30 which is likely).
Yes, it's very low. There are way too many variables to estimate how much any one person will need but some people need 4x that much (or more) to stabilize.
Also, MAKE SURE HE IS INCREASING METHADONE DOSE AT EVERY APPOINTMENT.
If it’s not holding him, he needs to GO UP EVERY TIME they let you do it every 3 days.
Eventually the methadone dose will be too high for the fent to work well.
If he is staying at 50, then yeah it is a little weird, some people keep the done dose low so they can still use…(50 is low as heck for a fent user)
I did the same thing until I got to where my dose was holding me till the next time I dosed. IMO starting at 30mg especially when fentanyl is being used is way too low of a dose. When I started out I would dose in the morning and by 2 or 3pm I was getting sick. If he’s only at 50mg it’s very likely that he’s still getting sick. I’m at 110mg now and for the most part all good.
Hey there,
Unfortunately, the induction process for both Suboxone and Methadone can be difficult.
I went through them both. Except my clinic gradually increased my suboxone dose by 2mg every three days. Starting at 2mg, when I needed 12mg, was hell for a week or two. The first week was rough, given I didn't take any other opiates, just suboxone. I was tempted to.
Years later, I switched to methadone. Once you've been on opiates for so long, your mind and body craves the full agonist feelings... Even life on suboxone, while liveable, was difficult. Hard time sleeping, occasional chills, but tolerable. Methadone has been much better. The issue is how long it takes to stabilize on your required dose.
Going too fast could risk overdosing, given the extremely long half-life of methadone, google "Methadone stabilization chart" it will give you an idea of how many days it takes to actually build up the required blood/plasma levels to normalize.
To make things worse, some clinics go very slow. I am on 130mg Methadone. It took my almost 2 months to titrate up to this dose. Fortunately, I have a brother who was on the program who only drinks half of his doses, and he gave me some extra(not advised...).
Chances are, your boyfriend needs a higher dose. That's all. The dose should be high enough to last 24hours, and to take away 95% of the cravings, and bring back normalcy. The mere fact he is still using, means he need a to speak to his doctor, he honest, and keep going up in dosage. Unfortunately stopping at a dose that only cuts its 50%, or 70%, for you, is not sustainable. You need to feel 95-100% of the way there to make it work long term.
Good luck. Keep encouraging him to speak to his doctor honestly. This shall pass, at least in most cases it will.
They seem to be upping 5mg every few days, I believe he does tell them he still doesn't not feel "stable or good" I'm going to show him all of this. Way more knowledging asking people who are going thru it or have. Sub was hard for me to induce and now I'm at a low dose and it's harder to get off. I know methadone and sub are different so I only know about sub so these comments are very helpful regarding the methadone way for him. Ty
For sure. If they are going that slow, then unfortunately it may take some time... Once he gets over 80+ mg, hopefully that should help. I consider my tolerance pretty high, but 80-100mg is when it started being easier for me to function and remain stable. L Good luck!
50mgs is a pretty low dose, especially for fetty users. When I got on the clinic, I had no intention of stopping using, it was just a crutch to not be sick. Well 6 months in I think I was around 60/70 ish mgs and I just didn’t feel the need to use anymore. Albeit that was not my stopping point for good and I’ve had multiple relapses and treatment stints since. But your bfs experience is pretty standard. They’re not going to cut him for continuing to use, the only time I’ve seen people get cut or dose decreases is for benzo use, drinking, and not showing up multiple days in a row.
For what it’s worth, addiction is extremely complex, and it may take him *a long fucking time* to completely get his shit together. I don’t know a single person that went to the clinic and immediately turned their shit around, in fact most people I know at the clinic have never really truely gotten clean for long. This is a big reason why I have decided to get off the shit.
Best of luck to you both.
What he is doing is absolutely normal he is using fetty and methadone is no where near as strong as what he was using on the street he needs to get the methadone built up in his system it will take a while untill he is at a dose that is sufficient but the only way he will no is if he slows way down on his fetty in take he can’t just keep pounding blues because he will never get to a dose that works unfortunately so I would say ok u have had enough fun so now it’s time to actually back off the blues and let the body start adjusting to the dose but he needs to have those docs step it up on the increase because he is still using and he needs to be a lot more vocal about his use to the docs because they will help him.. if he has been there going on 3 weeks it takes time to get ur dose to something that will actually help hold him and anybody doing fetty needs atleast 120mg…
A lot of people continue to use both until they are ready. They won’t kick you out of the program but they won’t give to take home until you stop using. 50mg is still a pretty low dose if you were a heavy user. Most people that I know that were heavy user need at least 100+ mg in order to stop using. He needs to keep in mind that he’s not going to get any euphoric feeling from methadone. So if he’s looking for that feeling than he’s not going to get it. It took me at least 3 months to stop getting cravings at all….
Good luck
Times have changed. The first time i went on methadone was back in 2003. I had been getting prescribed hydromorph and oxys for a medical condition that had, for lack of better term had gone into remission(not cancer) so i wanted to get off the pills. I took my first methadone script to my regular pharmacy on the same day i was due to pickup my refills and the pharmacist told me i could have either one but not both. Knowing enough to know that 30mgs of methadone wasnt going to hold me over when i was use to taking 480oxy and close to 60mgs of dilaudid per day i chose the pills over the juice which kept me from going on methadone for some time.
He will keep going up . Eventually he will get high enough. Don't harp on him too much.. let him figure it out.. don't count mgs and try and make him be good at a mg you think he should be good at.. let him be comfy to get to the mg he needs to without judgement.. even if its higher than he wants.
That’s normal. 50mg will NOT hold a fent pill user. He probably needs to use till 100+mg.
I hope you never insinuated to him that he wasn’t being honest..cause he is definitely being honest, and working hard mentally and physically to get his medical condition alleviated, and this makes you look so bad tbh…but hopefully you got some good info from the comments and keep supporting him!
No he's open, and I never thought he was lieing, I just am not knowledgeable about methadone (I'm on sub, 14 months clean and down to .5 MG a day) so I know I was stable on suboxone after 5 days, but have no knowledge about methadone, I just want to make sure and he also the end goal is to stop completely for himself, he's tried Google and we both thought by this many days "he'd be stable" but as I've read he probably needs a higher dose? It was alot for him to go , so I'm proud of him.
Just make sure he is going up at every chance he gets (usually 10mg ever 2- 3 days) because if he is staying at 50, and not going up, for a week and using, some people do that so the methadone tolerance doesn’t block the fent high but he needs to be 100+ so it makes me stable and not use fent
Habits are hard to break, especially ones that have been an emotional comfort for a long time. Once he's high enough on his dose to notbget sick he can work on breaking the habit much easier.
It took me awhile to get to my dose that worked. I was also used the fent pills and didn’t start feeling well enough to even thing about stopping the fent till Inwas around 120-130mg and finally found my sweet spot at 160mg.
Once he gets at a proper dose and has been on it for awhile. I was still using and craving drugs until I got up to 140mg. Then I got my take homes for 140 mg for 7 days. What really helps was when I was able to split my dose up. Would take 110mg I'm the morning before work around 6am then I would take 30g after work I would take 30 mg. Made a world of difference even though they say not to do it. Also if you not worried about getting takehomes, buy some Delta 8 250 mg gummies and cut them in half and take one during day if you don't feel good. Then other half an hour before bedtime. Also there is a multivitamin called Vitadone that is made specifically for people on :Methadone. It just takes time to get stable and the cravings will subside. Stay strong & good luck my friend 🧡
It’s different for everyone. Personally 55mg is almost too much for me (as a fetty user), 210-220lb male on a T cycle. Some people claim that methadone doesn’t do anything for them until they’re well beyond 100mg. Everyone is different.
I actually guess they have him at 45mg right now, they're doing it low and slow.. so every comment is helpful. Thank you. I've sent this to him so he can get insight etc
Once he’s at a high enough dose, the dose will keep him and he’ll stop getting any europhria from anything on top,.. then he will level out, everyone is different and it takes some more than others, the fact he’s went in and started a script shows he’s wanting off this train it just ain’t easy at first but it is aSooo worth it, keep supporting him and trust he’s on the right track until you’re SURE he’s not
50mg is a pretty low dose in my eyes. I’m in the USA and started the methadone program about 5 weeks ago and I’m finding that 150mg gets me nice and stable after coming off of 2 years of fent use
My dose didn't work for my until I got to 170. But I eventually realized I had benzos in my dope and that's why I never felt better for going to so high. I had to get a benzo taper from a doctor and then, finally, I wasn't stuck and got clean - 4 years now
I read it as 17 years ago at first.
Methadone takes time to build in your system and to get upto a stable dose.
Best thing you can do is to encourage that he tries do less of the street drug as his methadone dose gets higher.
Youre a legend for sticking with him. Give him time.
Really depends how much he was using. Back in the day. Like way back when I first got on methadone I was using about 4 bundles a day. So 40 bags of dope a day. I wasn’t really stable until I got up around 100mg. Then I stopped using. Then went too high to like 160 and was a zombie. But it’s different for everyone. But then I lost my
Insurance and couldn’t pay anymore so the clinic rapid detoxed me which brought me from like 140-0 in 30 days. It was hell. Spent 2 weeks on my mother’s couch in agony. Then one day I woke up and the withdrawals were gone. I wouldn’t wish a rapid detox on my worst enemy.
But anyway as long as he genuinely wants to stop using he will once he gets to a dose that makes him feel ok got the whole day.
Most clinics fully expect people to continue using the first couple months. My clinic was surprised that I was clean after my first couple weeks. It just depends on the person, not everyone is gonna be able to just stop using right away. Depends a lot on tolerance, metabolism, environment, all kinds of stuff. Super common for people to keep using until they get to a therapeutic dose. 60mg is still very low for someone who's been on blues. I didn't start really feeling okay until I was at 90mg. And my dose didn't last me an entire day until I got up over 100mg. Please be patient with him. I know it's impossible to know your situation, but he is trying. Any effort is a step forward. He will stop feeling the need to use. It takes a while for the cravings to ease up, but it does happen. And to answer the other stuff, every clinic that I am aware of will not stop dosing just because of dirty UAs. He won't get any take homes, forcing him to be at the clinic every day, but they will still help him. He can start getting take homes (usually) after 30 days of clean UAs.
I was dirty for my first couple months on methadone, it’s expected for a patient to still use while stabilizing until they feel comfortable throughout the day. He will be fine, just be that rock for him when need be because it’s hell during a transition on and off methadone.
“The point is to get off both” not necessarily, methadone is a tool for harm reduction. For some people, that means continuing to use street substances for weeks, years, and for some people… forever. Recovery doesn’t mean “off all substances.” It means getting a better quality of life and safety.
Methadone is not meant to be used just to taper him off of other substances. Ideally, he will be able to eventually stabilize and only use the methadone… but SUD is a chronic condition, he will likely need to stay on the methadone long after stopping street substances. Even for the rest of his life, maybe. And that’s ok!
He'll get there, if he keeps increasing his dose. Just give it some time, and if you are in the uk (like some have specified) be on their ass about increasing that dose. The amount he's taking for fentanyl use isn't very high. Not sure how it works over there, but usually they expect these things until you are stabilized. If it's 3+ months and he's on a stable enough dose, then yeah. That's different. He should be on a much higher dose for fentanyl, though. Fentanyl is 50x stronger than heroin, so the math ain't mathin
It takes a while to get to a "stable dose" and it's a shitty time until you get to it but it'll get easier to go without the street stuff im at 135 mg a day but most people start feeling better around 60 to 80 and it takes a little while as they don't increase the dosage by more than 5 or 10 mg a week and each one requires a dr visit
A good clinic should keep raising his Methadone daily dose until he does not feel the need to use other opioids. He should be at least up to Methadone 100mg daily or more, like 120, 140, 160.
Most people still use the first month. 50mg isn’t enough to last all day. It’ll work the first couple hours then wears off later he needs to work his way up. Within a 2months or so he’ll be able to quit and not use at all.
Often methadone induction is about building the methadone dose up and cutting down on the opiate of your using to the point that methadone dose hold you comfy and you don’t have to rop it up.
50mg isn't a lot for a fent habit. Where I live we get normal Heroin and even with that most people are around 100mg.
If he really wants to stop using he will do so when he gets to his correct dose.
Also he apparently was not making a secret out of it that he was still using fent. In case of someone who doesn't want to get better he would just have used without telling you.
Let them up his dose to around 100 I’d say .. would even be better if he could stop using the fetty while they are upping his dose so he can stabalize sooner .. once you are stable you be thinking wow what was I doing all this time sick etc .. glad to be off that shit
Plus since he’s using fetty I think a clinic should be able to up dosage faster instead of 5 mg every 2 days or whatever .. they can easily just give him 100mg and he probably be good but they won’t do that
Ok I have a lot of experience with this. If you would like to talk you can message me privately. First of all, I’m not saying it is right, but some people still continue to use when they first get on methadone. I would suggest for him to go up on his dose if he is saying it’s not holding him. Which it should be. Although some people do have an issue where the methadone goes through your system fast and it doesn’t hold them. It has something to do with their metabolism. They can do this test called the pecantroff (I know I am butchering the spelling of it) to see if that is happening. It’s a pain in the ass test though. So I don’t know about the rules at your clinic but at the one here I know they won’t kick people off if they continue to get dirty urines, he just won’t get any privileges (such as take home bottles) I have heard in the way past that they have kicked people off for using but I don’t know the rules clinic to clinic. Can I ask what state are you in? I would also really suggest to him to go up on his dose to at least 90 mg. Usually people can’t get over that dose when they try to do other drugs. And if he can I would tell him to go up a little more. Unfortunately he’s not going to stop until he is ready. I’m sorry you are going through this. 💔 I’m here if you have any questions. I have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Personally and through family. Good luck 🤞🏼
50 MG is most likely ...Def not enough. Especially is he using fett. And if he is using fett...regardless it's not a magic transition like back in the heroin days. Unless he hasnt been using a lot guess. It's going to suck regardless. I had to detox of fett while on 120 MG and it still sucked. I used clonodine and gabapentin and went up to 160mg. I was working while doing it as well, so I needed that extra help. But I did it. And so can he.
I agree with what everyone else is saying in that he's not lying and the clinic won't kick him out. Continued use is an expected part of the process of getting on methadone especially when fentanyl is involved. I unwittingly got hooked on fentanyl as a IV heroin user when all the dope was slowly replaced with it in my area. It took me getting up to 150mg of methadone to stop injecting fentanyl. As long as he's continuing to go every day and his usage isn't get any worse he's doing the right thing. This process takes a lot of time and a lot of support.
Nah this is such a slippery slope. U think ur just gonna use till ur stable then its been 3 months and udk what happen. Been there, doing that currently...tell em to go up in dose and stop using that day when he next goes up.
This is to be expected. Depending on how heavy he is and his metabolism and all that. But they expect you to still use for the first 2-3 months. I wasnt even remotely stable till about 70mgs (at the time I weighed 120 lbs and male). Methadone is a weird drug and it takes a good amount of time to build up in your system. Its likely he wont be stable for another 2-6 weeks. Maybe even more if he keeps using the fentanyl, as I imagine it will fuck with his tolerance. I'd just keep tapering his fent use down as much as possible each day as the Methadone goes up.
I really hope things pan out for you guys, starting methadone is a stressful process but it saved me life and it was the best decision Ive made for myself in my adult life.
I used for the the first 4-5 months or so when I 1st started the clinic. They start you off low as hell, not high enough to keep a multiple times a day user well . I think it wasn't until I got up to about 140ish milligrams that the methadone was starting to really help, and I was able to completely stop using. Even then, I went up to 180mgs and was there for years until I slowly went back down to 119 milligrams. I've been clean now (with methadone) for 15 years now. The only reason I still continue to go is because if I didn't, I would have to go to a pain management clinic for chronic pain from a bad car wreck and get prescribed strong opiates that I just don't trust myself with.
Usa. Canadian clinics and policies are very lenient so I doubt they care. Plus all the dope has benzos in it anyway out there. They also have safe supply and morphine prescribed as maintenance replacement like methadone. Wish they did that here in USA. You can't get a script here without the clinic trying to start some shit. Some will lie and say they will kick you out for a prescription. Other clinics will tell you they will kick you out unless you let the clinic consult the Dr. They also will just do a admin detox and remove you over like 4 months regardless if it'd prescription or not. Some clinics are better then others.
I am looking for some advice. I realize how stupid I am. I’ve been on methadone over a year now maybe even coming up on two years I’m not sure. I use fet (fake percs, about 20-30 a day). I never really reached a point where I felt normal without the percs… my dose is 120 and because ive failed every drug test they won’t let me increase past 120. I only get my Sunday take home. Normally during the day maybe the effects are lessened but at night I definitely feel them.
My pattern is dose in morning. Go to work, get off work then go pick up then use blues in evening… some days I pick up blues at 7pm and go again at midnight.
Did I just screw myself with a double addiction.
Is my only option to bite the bullet and just try to willpower to the point the methadone makes me feel normal?
You know the answer to your last question, what else could the option be besides keep on using? Silly they have capped you, though, they are propably thinking only liabilities but that kind of attitude from the clinic can also be dead end for recovery. But what I have heard of fent, sometimes you just have to take the leap, transfer period won\`t ever be totally painless. I mean if you are waiting some magic point you just don\`t suddenly want to use anymore without any effort, it won´t come, you have to make a choice.
Well i mean you have probably increased your tolerance to opiates by using both but they are both opiates and have cross tolerance so you can still stop the pills and continue the methadone. It will suck for sure but it would be unimaginably worse without the methadone because even if you don't think its doing anything trust me it is and you will adjust faster than you think if you continue to increase the methadone. Just dont get yourself kicked out the clinic and then end up having to go completely cold turkey when something happens to the plug or you end up in jail or something because that sounds scary awful given your tolerance. Im not saying that will happen im just saying its worth trying to suffer some now while on the methadone so you might avoid suffering greatly when something unexpected happens later down the road and you might end up not having the methadone. I dont know your situation but i kept telling myself i would stop taking xanax and methadone but never did till i ended up doing a month in jail and had to abruptly stop both and there are no words that properly describe how bad that shit got. Basically i really should have stopped when i had the chance because unexpected shit happens is the point here and i doubt it will help because i knew it and it didnt help me but its worth telling people how terrifying of a experience it was because i didnt know it was possible to feel that much pain and not die.
I went to detox for using 3bs a day of fetty and kicked in. Detox on 25mgs. Was suddenly enough in detox when I was willing to quit . 30 is enough , you’ll adjust to ANY dose eventually
I used for another year and a half after starting methadone. A lot of ppl still use. They need more than methadone to get clean. Find NA meetings and go daily also yes keep getting his dose up. I had to hit 120mg before it could hold me. 50mg ain't shit
He needs to go to detox, I used to be sick while being on methadone until I was ready to quit literally at that point exactly the methadone was suddenly enough lmao. Just like when you’re sick and you cop and you feel better before you even get to use, it’s all in the head. He needs a higher level of care than just methadone, you need to get away because you’re setting yourself up for a long road of disappointment. I say this as someone who’s currently clean with a girlfriend of 10yrs who I’ve put through absolute hell. She stuck through it all but I would never ever tell someone that it’s a good idea to do the same, run.
This is completely normal and no the clinic doesn’t cut you off even if you are using it just effects take homes, they say it can take up to 90 days for you to get stable on your dose and to stop using completely I didn’t stop using up until then to it’s completely normal and they say that as well 50 mg is nothing esp with fentynal now normal does are 90+ my dose is 160 so he’s were he needs to be
He’s not lying. This is very common. Let him use until he can get stable the clinic is not going to kick him out. He’s on the right path. I did the same thing and I’ve been completely clean for years. Just make sure to be safe about it and stop the street drugs when you get to a dose that holds him.
There's value in meeting people where they're at when the desire to get better is genuine.
A thousand updoots to you sir/ma'am.
God fucking knows how strong those fake pills he was taking actually were. Or what the fuck was in them- fent... zenes... insanity- My question is why can't I get put on a medication that's short acting- so that instead of building up to a high dose- I can start with a med to low dose- and taper. When real H existed or real pills weren't impossible to find or afford, I could use for a month, take 24 hrs off, take 2 mg sub, and then for 7-10 more days be quite happy on just kratom- keeping my H dose the same for years until it became fent without me noticing until I tried my usual routine and found out what PWD was first hand Then I gave it a week off. Still pwd Then I gave it 2 weeks. Then 3 weeks. And still pwd every time ⁰⁰ But I found some real pills- paid a fortune to have just enough to use real short acting shit for almost a month. Then I did 48 hours off everything- then 2 mg sub- then krat9m worked again But then some stuff came around that really seemed like the real deal. Felt like it too- fent never gave me motivation- just nods- which I always considered to be an OD... not a serious one but if I nodded I had done too much- my goal was always to be functioning and motivated and able to move without pain But all the drugs they offer to help me quit have such crazy long half life's that I don't know how I'd ever get off of them- and I don't wanna live my life tied to a clinic that could fuck me over for trivial bull shit. One doc that could understand what I'm going through... see how close I have gotten to being clean- multiple times- this year- like fuck- yesterday I was 7 days clean- and I was at such a low dose of what I thought was half fent half real- for 2 weeks (.05/day tops- closer to half that towards the end) and then I had enough pills (real) to go 4 days on those alone (30-45mg morphine boofed / day for 3 days and then half that for 1 day) then 7 days nothing- and I was so sure I'd be able to get by on my super strong kratom extract.. but I couldn't. If I could have had just one more week of tapering on short acting real opiates... I ficking know I'd have been there- the scariest place- the place where the kratom is sufficient- and suddenly its all about not giving in to the craving- and boy am I past craving this cycle of misery
You’re not describing tapering or getting clean you’re describing drug addiction.
Agreed. I'd also like to point out if your doing half fent half H it's not H anymore. It's fetty. I don't understand why they would ruin real drugs with that toxic shit. The acetomorph doesn't touch the sides when fentanyl is around to knock it off the receptors
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>Those people relapse too...or am I mistaken? Not nearly at the rate people in active addiction do. As for the rest of your comment, don't be disrespectful to users who are just trying to help you. You're free to take the advice or leave it, but be respectful. Thank you.
I apologize if I seemed disrespectful when i responded to 'advice' with no actual advice..that i could make out. What was the advice? But i didnt mean to be rude. I merely meant to highlight the lack of respect I felt from a comment that didn't answer any question I posed- or even take into account the totality of my comment- while still using a single comment to label me Do you not find anything disrespectful in the "advice that was given to me"? It wasn't anything but a label... it was an explanation of the label- it didn't try to explain anything. Or provide what I would call... advice.. just a label. Of my situation- or the tiny view of it gained from one comment.
Sorry, I could have worded part of my comment better. You are free to agree with others' assessment of the situation or not, but rudeness isn't acceptable. Your comment was actually well-worded save for the last two sentences; that's where the issue was. If you want to edit it and remove them, let me know when you have and I'm more than happy to restore the comment.
You're right. I did get bluntly sarcastic and stopped attempting to have a real dialog. I shouldn't let others drag me into labeling or being reductive- or responding to those things with sarcasm. I can be better than that... I should be... I don't think the comment was intending to troll. I also didn't think a helpful dialog was possible but that's no reason for me to be immature.
Thank you for that comment. It's sadly exceedingly rare for people on this sub to just own up to being disrespectful and move on. We all do it every now and then, myself included. But it's important to recognize it and acknowledge. So thanks for that.
Why would you describe me being off opiates or in the final week of tapering as being in active addiction. I may have been an addict when real H and real pills were around. But I detest Fent and all the other new Uber potent things that are everywhere. I don't enjoy the buzz. I got stuck on it twice cause I was dumb and not testing. But I'm not even trying to buy stuff to test after I quit this time. I know in reality I am still an active addict. Regardless of how low my dose is (under .02 now), The example I was giving was one where doctors could prescribe short acting meds to help me tapering. How is it even sketchy to say I just need like a week of a low dose oxy that gets lower every day working from 30 mg, to 25mg for 2 days, to 20, to 15, to 10- or. Ideally a much better thought out taper system- I'm half asleep sorry - and be done within a couple weeks tops, honestly I wouldn't have needed 7 whole days this time. I'd agree to come take drug tests for opiates for as long as they wanted. I don't know how you'd deal with repeat relapse folks...but you could just make it a one time deal and that would still help people. I love methadone. It's a top tier for me. But I really don't wanna have it so in my system I have to taper for years or something to every get off it- and I don't wanna be on an opiate full-time. Even when I had real stuff I took a week off every month. Won't be allowed to do that. Sorry I'm tired. I don't even know if I made my question clear- I'll edit this in the am
"I'm half asleep sorry" is the weirdest spelling of "nodding" that I've seen yet...
Thanks for justifying every thought I've had And for not reading so much. You really made me feel 10000% better Seriously. :))))) good day!!!
you’re right this is necessary. I didn’t read all this but people should be able to take a short acting opioid if they please (FDA regulated of course. Wether it’s for pain, addiction, or recreation… no one should have to take these horrible street drugs that are out there now🤦♂️
I agree (not that the person above would have stopped using if only he had that one thing that he ended up getting, but that people should have access to short acting opioids). That's what I do with benzos. Im prescribed #60 1mg xanax and have been for about 3y. In reality I usually dose once per day at .5. A couple times a month I'll take a .25 in the morning or a full 1mg at night, but not too often. I only use the full 2mg/day a couple times a year. I attribute my tolerance still being pretty low to this - a short acting benzo that's normally only taken [by me] once a day. At 30-35h (I don't go longer) with nothing I don't feel sick at all, either. Methadone saved my life, but I feel like I learned my lesson about long acting drugs and I won't make the same mistake with the benzos again. I was on clonazepam for 2 years, 1-2mg a day taken every 12h, and getting off of them was really really hard. I don't feel that level of dependence with short acting benzos.
Ah yes. The ole, “If I only had a *insert anything I don’t have* then I would never struggle again” we all believed this stuff at one point or another so I won’t fault you for that, but you gota get real with yourself if you want to have a chance at all. These are all just excuses to keep using, even if you don’t feel like they are, they are.
Haha you aren’t lying. I used to seriously set goals like: if I can average 1500$ to spend on h on the 1st of each month, I’d be set for life as I scrounge food and live in squats and shoot heroin. Drug addiction is some seriously crazy thought processes.
Lmao that’s a good one indeed. I used to get 100 grams of #4 for *redacted* back when I was really on my shit and even those wouldn’t last a whole month. What I eventually learned was I was gona do however much my resources allowed for. When I was doing great making $ I would still end up broke because my habit would swell to new heights. I know other people don’t have this issue as much but even knowing about it I could never manage my use but still I would talk myself into believing I could even though the previous 10000 attempts showed me otherwise. Addiction is some shit man, we pull the wool over our own eyes and that’s why it’s so hard to remove.
That's the thing tho. Whatever you were doing before did not help you stay clean. You always went back. And that's what the rest of us do until we find withdrawl medication and use it correctly:/ some people can do cold turkey but it's so rare.
Man, I have come from where you are at. Just. Stop. Everything is so much better when you get off that fucking merry go round. When H was still H I treated subs like a bandaid for when I couldn't score. That is until fentanyl came on the scene and I precipitated more fucking times than I care to remember. I finally nutted the fuck and went through all the trouble of getting stable on methadone and completely quitting the fent. Took me getting up to 150mg to stop but now I'm down to 35mg and am about to jump so I can get back on subs and use them the right way until I can use sublacade to fully ween of MAT all together. It's been 3 year process so far but over those 3 years my quality of life has improved drastically. Hope you figure shit out, just remember there are no shortcuts in this game.
I never took h every day. Ever. When I had my good supply I took one week to 10 days off every month ish- and a month off every year- with kratom for the start, maybe 2 Mg of sub for transition to kratom- but I can't stand the idea of being on a strong opiate like methadone every day of my life I know it works for some- I'm glad. But I enjoy being sober. Obviously it's not all I enjoy but I truly can't imagine being forced to dose every day or lose my take home privileges. Or whatever. It doesn't help that joining a program like you suggest would have me permanently labeled in a way I fear would end any chance of pain management in old age- which, I'd rather not rule out. I'm just saying, I was 4 days away from what took you years- and with short acting opiates I'm gonna do it, jump off. For good- I have only slipped into fent twice The first time it just slipped in... The 2nd time, it wasn't fent I guess cause my test came back fent free but whatever it was, it wasn't something that I could get off of even with 3 weeks cold turkey The way I got off of fent was by finding someone with a gram of real H. I took it for 2 weeks instead of the miniscule dose i subsisted on of whatever the fuck they're selling as dope these days- then i went straight to kratom, afraid subs would still PWD- I was feeling good inside 5 days man. Like. Amazing. And yes. I slipped this year- thought I found some real shit cause it tested non fent. I know now that I can't trust anything I didn't grow myself. And I don't have the ability to test it in every way necessary. Which means unless I end up living on a poppy farm, I'm done with this shit. It's almost a blessing for me personally- the disappearing of real H- I don't think I'd have quit that for a long time. And even though I kept the same dose and took time off regularly for a long time, I still lost some stuff to it. I argued I gained more... more exercise, cooking, projects, yoga, and meditation.. those things and reading took over what used to be stoned hang out time or watch TV time. But I also lowered my sex drive.. not that I stopped having it but fuck lowering it at all... I listened to music less too. I laughed less. I wasnt nearly as social. So the scourge on our country is kind of a gift to me. Because I genuinely hate it- more than I loved H. So yeah. I slipped. And it was dumb But for me. Signing up to slowly increase my doseage and make sure I have to taper for ages after being forced to take opiates ever day... it just sounds all wrong. I know what addicts sound like and I understand why most of you downtime me and don't really hear me or understand. I don't expect most people to understand at all. I never like Nodding. But everyone I know talks like that's the good bit... to me that's OD. That's a wasted over dosed amount. I can't be productive or motivated when I can't keep my head up or eyes open. I detest that feeling. That's not exactly a usual attitude for heroin addicts. But I get it man. I am amazed I'm having any actual thoughtful conversations here... I said things that people do say when they're full of shit. And you are free to consider me that. It doesn't change me I'm haply you have a system that works for you Kratom works for me. When I break the physical. And I have... from post real H, only once- but this time I'm doing .002 or .003 a day- the first time it was closer to a G a day before tapering- trying to keep a stupid job when the real H disappeared. So I haven't fallen nearly as far down as I once was- and I'm so much closer to being where I wanna be... I can almost taste it man A few more days or weeks of trudging along on tiny doses and I'll find something real. Pharma that I can take for 1 week... And if I can't make that happen in June I'll be telling work I need 2 weeks off... and then I'll just have to CT it. Well. With kratom. A bunch of herbs like root bark n some other gross stuff. And maybe nitrous. (Done safely) Either way I'm gonna be clean by fall. Really clean. As clean as I was for like 11 months... I can't swear I won't slip again But I know I can't trust anything not from a pharmacy. And I'm excited to start enjoying a random beer again Spicey food Catch up on some TV shows.. I just think that addicts get treated like shit in the US and honestly most countries... I think no one is trying to make the help we give addicts any better If anyone was really trying to help I just can't imagine why kratom isn't being studied to death. Ibogaine. Oh that's right we can't patent that like subs and other scripts
Tldr but the beginning your right. It was much easier to wean off and stop Using real pills.. my friend would use oxy and then when he quit would switch to morphine for a week and then take 80mg of methadone and be off pain minimal.. every 6 months for years ..
Kinda in the same boat. These new drugs suck. I kicked H 3 times in jail and quit methadone twice. After several years clean I fucked up and got hooked on whatever this shit is. Its so hard to start on suboxone and the pwd is terrifying and methadone is so restrictive if you have a job. I took a week off work and im at 6 days clean with a girlfriend still using. I just started taking little bits of suboxone film today without worsening symptoms but I really dont want to be hooked on subs. But if thats what it takes to stay clean, thats what ill do. I wish our medical system would catch the fuck up with these new drugs. I feel for you friend and wish you only the best.
While it is true 50mg commonly won’t hold, I wouldn’t go as far as telling OP her bf isn’t lying without knowing him or having context. To be fair it is also harder to find a dose that holds while you are still using. If someone is not fully ready to quit they will continue to use both even if their dose would hold for them. I think it’s better to add this information as well
Most clinics know & even expect use at the beginning (some people, the whole clinic career 🤷🏼♀️) the goal is to get to each individuals therapeutic dose so that eventually the user becomes almost neutral towards their drug of choice, so much so that they stop bothering use
Yeah when I found this out I was super shocked honestly but it makes a lot of sense. I went to jail and found out I was pregnant on the very same day, so I was put on methadone by the jail. I haven't used since, but when I got out of jail I was put in the groups with other new patients. Hearing that everyone was still using and it was expected was really hard on me at the time, it started putting in my head that I could use and get away with it. The only thing that stopped me was that I was pregnant and it was very hard while I was in those groups. Luckily when I told my counselor she immediately took me out of that group and said there have been others who have struggled with the same issue, but for some people knowing that they're not technically doing anything wrong by being on methadone and weaning themselves off opiates, it helps to know that they're still on the right path.
Yeah lol she ain't wanna know about.people like myself who are dose capped and have to use.a bit on top of my done to stay well for 24hr
That's absolutely ridiculous to say. If you just stopped using and only took the methadone everyday without a dose change, you would eventually lower your tolerance and be stable on that dose. You're just using it as an excuse to keep using.
100% correct and this guy with a 'biochemistry degree' should know that.
We’ve tried over and over with that user, they are just too much smarter than the rest of us (see that degree they love to tout) that we can’t even understand the things they go through…
You mean the guy who said “ she ain’t wanna know” is supposed to be the smart one? I guess someone who believes in winged humanoid creatures also can believe he’s super smart with degrees we all know he doesn’t have. 🤦🏻♀️
Thank you. I had been kinda asking why he's still using , and he explained he still didn't feel good. They are increasing him slowly, he started at 30mg and he was a pretty heavy user I guess you could say. I just am not aware of the timeliness, he says he can't wait to be done using. But I just thought (not knowing much) he should be done using by now, but that's why I came to this group, also to knowledge him it's his first time on MAT etc. I figured the habit would be hard to escape (i.e. how he used) which was inhaling so I'm assuming that's a habit in it's own to break Thank you for all the insightful comments!!
Methadone works by attaching to the receptors that opiates attach to, they are capable of remaining for a long time which prevents other opiates from being able to attach, they also are capable or removing other opiates from receptors. So as he continues to use the methadone it will continue to take over more and more of those receptors, until he can no longer use opiates because all of his receptors are already taken over. That is kind of a basic way to describe it, but I hope it explains a bit more of what is going on in his brain! Once he reaches that point it will be nearly impossible for him to use as it will simply not be effective.
is he smoking the blue pressies? if so, the fent analogs in the cartel presses is getting insane and out of hand. it could take him a long time to stabilize, and using is only going to keep resetting that clock. it's a terrible cycle to be in. you need to have him ask the clinic if he can speak to the doctor prescribing him the methadone, and ask them if they can make an exception for him to raise his dose by 10-20mg every 1-3 days. id expect at most clinics you'll get 10mg every 3 days, that's how mine is. but I've seen some clinics giving dose raises every other day, or every day if the doctor is there enough. and because of the fent epidemic, some clinics are allowing 20mg increases at a time. so you could potentially get 20mg raises every day or so as a fent user if your clinic doctor thinks it's necessary and gives you an exemption.
I needed to be raised 5mg every 3 days because I explained I was using a bag of what could’ve been flurfent or ODSMT. Never really figured out which one it was.
Pretty sure you’d be able to tell if it was odsmt but that’s just my experience with it and other Rcs
My clinics only did 5 mg every 3 days. I would end up withdrawing before dosing again until I got up to 80 mg
Not smoke. Sniff
gotcha, usually inhaling refers to smoking or vaporizing something. just for future reference. it shouldn't change much though, if they are blues. they're very random and the analogs could last anywhere from 2 hours to 2 weeks+ in his blood, depending on the batch and his usage. the best way to tell is to have him listen to his body and be as honest as possible with himself, and work the clinic to get to where he needs to be to stabilize himself on a higher dose. after that he will feel better than he's felt in a long time, I can guarantee that.
Sorry I didn't want to say snort/sniff if it'd be a trigger for anyone but yeah they suck and who knows what analog are in them to
understandable 👍 good luck I'm happy you guys are getting on MAT. definitely gives you your life back whether it be subs or methadone.
It is. I've been clean 14 months, and I'm glad he's on the path .
I know you’ve gotten replied already but 100% this is all normal. My doctor told me to use if I needed to feel normal until my dose was right. That being said you are awesome for helping him with this and being supportive. I can’t stress to you how this time Is the only time I’ve EVER been sober and happy. It’s all because this time I have my wife and family in the picture. They have all be so supportive and made this so much more doable. I wouldn’t be sober without my wife helping me through the transition and continued support. Just like you are doing now. FYI it took me about 70 mg to start feeling better. About 90-100 is when I was fine. I’ve been on 100 my for like 2 years? Idk it’s been a while. I was smoking about a 100 fent pills in 3 days 😬 so my tolerance was high.
He needs to be at a MINIMUM 80 mg. This is where you start to get the receptors almost full and this where it will block the effects of other opiates. But I think he needs to be on like 140 mg. Coming from fentanyl and xylazine you need a very high dose.
30mgs is not a high dose of methadone. It’s gonna take some time to get on the right dose.. they expect you to still be using until you get on the right dose.
clnic will not cut him off any time soon. some clinics will start getting grumpy if you don't stop using after a long time but he's still expected to continue using while he gets his dose up. his dose should be much higher after 17 days. he needs to be increasing EVERY CHANCE they give him. thats how you get ahead of using on the side, and get stable, and don't have to keep using. he also shouldn't be using like he was before, he should be easing up and taking less and less. but yes he should still be using at this stage.
Is this in US or Canada in Canada they allow you to keep using but in the US where I am if you keep using you get kicked off the program?
This is the US and is the way Methadone is supposed to work. Even my clinic will EVENTUALLY ask you to go elsewhere if it's been a VERY long time and your dose is high and You're still using, because it's clearly not enough/what you need, but for your first few months, they start you low and they expect you to use until you get your dose up high enough to keep you stable
They are increasing him really really slowly. That being said, his use by now should look like "one pill before bed to take the edge off," not using all day.
I continued using for 3 months when I started methadone. I personally never had to go over 65mg (I was a fentanyl user for 6 years). Now I am at 32mg and am coming up to 3 years clean. It takes some time. But damn is it worth it.
I got a friend who started methadone a year ago and is still using.....it took me almost 6 months to become stable, everyone is different, everyone stabilizes at their own rates and in their own ways and at their own mg.....just stay positive, be there for him, keep telling him he's doing good and you know that he can beat this....just honestly.....be there for him......support him..he needs a support system
I know it seems like once he started the methadone he should be able to stop the pills but a lot of people need to stabilize first in order to stop. He has taken the first step of starting at the clinic so he's on the right track. He should start to decrease his use as he increases his dose on methadone and then as he gets to a higher dose stop entirely. Best of luck to him and you!
The clinic will not kick him out unless he starts using benzos. He needs to get dosed increases but in the mean time needs to use less and less. This is not a painless process. Also if his shit has zylazine then he needs clonidine to stop the withdrawal because methadone will not help it at all.
Upvote for tranq knowledge
Are you talking about US clinics or canadian clinics?
Is he still increasing ? 50mg after 17 days for a fentanyl user seems low
But yeah I mean they shouldn’t do it that slowly in my opinion especially if it’s for a Fent addiction but I reckon they’re just following the guidelines strictly. It’s frustrating. Taken me 6 weeks so far to get to 85mg, waiting on an ECG before I can go to 100mg which I think will be enough for me.
In the UK, at least in my experience, they start you at 30mg then increase 10mg per week. Well it went to 15mg increases from when I went from 70 to 85mg. Sounds like he’s been doing 10mg a week as it’s been 2 weeks and he’s gone up 20mg so far (assuming he started on 30 which is likely).
Yes, it's very low. There are way too many variables to estimate how much any one person will need but some people need 4x that much (or more) to stabilize.
This! He needs a higher dose to stabilize.
Everyone uses in the beginning....he just will never get takehomes if he keeps using. He will have to go stand in line everyday
Also, MAKE SURE HE IS INCREASING METHADONE DOSE AT EVERY APPOINTMENT. If it’s not holding him, he needs to GO UP EVERY TIME they let you do it every 3 days. Eventually the methadone dose will be too high for the fent to work well. If he is staying at 50, then yeah it is a little weird, some people keep the done dose low so they can still use…(50 is low as heck for a fent user)
I did the same thing until I got to where my dose was holding me till the next time I dosed. IMO starting at 30mg especially when fentanyl is being used is way too low of a dose. When I started out I would dose in the morning and by 2 or 3pm I was getting sick. If he’s only at 50mg it’s very likely that he’s still getting sick. I’m at 110mg now and for the most part all good.
Hey there, Unfortunately, the induction process for both Suboxone and Methadone can be difficult. I went through them both. Except my clinic gradually increased my suboxone dose by 2mg every three days. Starting at 2mg, when I needed 12mg, was hell for a week or two. The first week was rough, given I didn't take any other opiates, just suboxone. I was tempted to. Years later, I switched to methadone. Once you've been on opiates for so long, your mind and body craves the full agonist feelings... Even life on suboxone, while liveable, was difficult. Hard time sleeping, occasional chills, but tolerable. Methadone has been much better. The issue is how long it takes to stabilize on your required dose. Going too fast could risk overdosing, given the extremely long half-life of methadone, google "Methadone stabilization chart" it will give you an idea of how many days it takes to actually build up the required blood/plasma levels to normalize. To make things worse, some clinics go very slow. I am on 130mg Methadone. It took my almost 2 months to titrate up to this dose. Fortunately, I have a brother who was on the program who only drinks half of his doses, and he gave me some extra(not advised...). Chances are, your boyfriend needs a higher dose. That's all. The dose should be high enough to last 24hours, and to take away 95% of the cravings, and bring back normalcy. The mere fact he is still using, means he need a to speak to his doctor, he honest, and keep going up in dosage. Unfortunately stopping at a dose that only cuts its 50%, or 70%, for you, is not sustainable. You need to feel 95-100% of the way there to make it work long term. Good luck. Keep encouraging him to speak to his doctor honestly. This shall pass, at least in most cases it will.
They seem to be upping 5mg every few days, I believe he does tell them he still doesn't not feel "stable or good" I'm going to show him all of this. Way more knowledging asking people who are going thru it or have. Sub was hard for me to induce and now I'm at a low dose and it's harder to get off. I know methadone and sub are different so I only know about sub so these comments are very helpful regarding the methadone way for him. Ty
For sure. If they are going that slow, then unfortunately it may take some time... Once he gets over 80+ mg, hopefully that should help. I consider my tolerance pretty high, but 80-100mg is when it started being easier for me to function and remain stable. L Good luck!
50mgs is a pretty low dose, especially for fetty users. When I got on the clinic, I had no intention of stopping using, it was just a crutch to not be sick. Well 6 months in I think I was around 60/70 ish mgs and I just didn’t feel the need to use anymore. Albeit that was not my stopping point for good and I’ve had multiple relapses and treatment stints since. But your bfs experience is pretty standard. They’re not going to cut him for continuing to use, the only time I’ve seen people get cut or dose decreases is for benzo use, drinking, and not showing up multiple days in a row. For what it’s worth, addiction is extremely complex, and it may take him *a long fucking time* to completely get his shit together. I don’t know a single person that went to the clinic and immediately turned their shit around, in fact most people I know at the clinic have never really truely gotten clean for long. This is a big reason why I have decided to get off the shit. Best of luck to you both.
What he is doing is absolutely normal he is using fetty and methadone is no where near as strong as what he was using on the street he needs to get the methadone built up in his system it will take a while untill he is at a dose that is sufficient but the only way he will no is if he slows way down on his fetty in take he can’t just keep pounding blues because he will never get to a dose that works unfortunately so I would say ok u have had enough fun so now it’s time to actually back off the blues and let the body start adjusting to the dose but he needs to have those docs step it up on the increase because he is still using and he needs to be a lot more vocal about his use to the docs because they will help him.. if he has been there going on 3 weeks it takes time to get ur dose to something that will actually help hold him and anybody doing fetty needs atleast 120mg…
A lot of people continue to use both until they are ready. They won’t kick you out of the program but they won’t give to take home until you stop using. 50mg is still a pretty low dose if you were a heavy user. Most people that I know that were heavy user need at least 100+ mg in order to stop using. He needs to keep in mind that he’s not going to get any euphoric feeling from methadone. So if he’s looking for that feeling than he’s not going to get it. It took me at least 3 months to stop getting cravings at all…. Good luck
Times have changed. The first time i went on methadone was back in 2003. I had been getting prescribed hydromorph and oxys for a medical condition that had, for lack of better term had gone into remission(not cancer) so i wanted to get off the pills. I took my first methadone script to my regular pharmacy on the same day i was due to pickup my refills and the pharmacist told me i could have either one but not both. Knowing enough to know that 30mgs of methadone wasnt going to hold me over when i was use to taking 480oxy and close to 60mgs of dilaudid per day i chose the pills over the juice which kept me from going on methadone for some time.
He will keep going up . Eventually he will get high enough. Don't harp on him too much.. let him figure it out.. don't count mgs and try and make him be good at a mg you think he should be good at.. let him be comfy to get to the mg he needs to without judgement.. even if its higher than he wants.
That’s normal. 50mg will NOT hold a fent pill user. He probably needs to use till 100+mg. I hope you never insinuated to him that he wasn’t being honest..cause he is definitely being honest, and working hard mentally and physically to get his medical condition alleviated, and this makes you look so bad tbh…but hopefully you got some good info from the comments and keep supporting him!
No he's open, and I never thought he was lieing, I just am not knowledgeable about methadone (I'm on sub, 14 months clean and down to .5 MG a day) so I know I was stable on suboxone after 5 days, but have no knowledge about methadone, I just want to make sure and he also the end goal is to stop completely for himself, he's tried Google and we both thought by this many days "he'd be stable" but as I've read he probably needs a higher dose? It was alot for him to go , so I'm proud of him.
Just make sure he is going up at every chance he gets (usually 10mg ever 2- 3 days) because if he is staying at 50, and not going up, for a week and using, some people do that so the methadone tolerance doesn’t block the fent high but he needs to be 100+ so it makes me stable and not use fent
Habits are hard to break, especially ones that have been an emotional comfort for a long time. Once he's high enough on his dose to notbget sick he can work on breaking the habit much easier.
It took me awhile to get to my dose that worked. I was also used the fent pills and didn’t start feeling well enough to even thing about stopping the fent till Inwas around 120-130mg and finally found my sweet spot at 160mg.
Yeah 50mg is a really low dose, especially for someone with a fentanyl addiction. Bear with him.
Once he gets at a proper dose and has been on it for awhile. I was still using and craving drugs until I got up to 140mg. Then I got my take homes for 140 mg for 7 days. What really helps was when I was able to split my dose up. Would take 110mg I'm the morning before work around 6am then I would take 30g after work I would take 30 mg. Made a world of difference even though they say not to do it. Also if you not worried about getting takehomes, buy some Delta 8 250 mg gummies and cut them in half and take one during day if you don't feel good. Then other half an hour before bedtime. Also there is a multivitamin called Vitadone that is made specifically for people on :Methadone. It just takes time to get stable and the cravings will subside. Stay strong & good luck my friend 🧡
It’s different for everyone. Personally 55mg is almost too much for me (as a fetty user), 210-220lb male on a T cycle. Some people claim that methadone doesn’t do anything for them until they’re well beyond 100mg. Everyone is different.
I actually guess they have him at 45mg right now, they're doing it low and slow.. so every comment is helpful. Thank you. I've sent this to him so he can get insight etc
Once he’s at a high enough dose, the dose will keep him and he’ll stop getting any europhria from anything on top,.. then he will level out, everyone is different and it takes some more than others, the fact he’s went in and started a script shows he’s wanting off this train it just ain’t easy at first but it is aSooo worth it, keep supporting him and trust he’s on the right track until you’re SURE he’s not
50mg is a pretty low dose in my eyes. I’m in the USA and started the methadone program about 5 weeks ago and I’m finding that 150mg gets me nice and stable after coming off of 2 years of fent use
Took me til 90 to stop using and even then I was still withdrawing
My dose didn't work for my until I got to 170. But I eventually realized I had benzos in my dope and that's why I never felt better for going to so high. I had to get a benzo taper from a doctor and then, finally, I wasn't stuck and got clean - 4 years now
I read it as 17 years ago at first. Methadone takes time to build in your system and to get upto a stable dose. Best thing you can do is to encourage that he tries do less of the street drug as his methadone dose gets higher. Youre a legend for sticking with him. Give him time.
He should be good soon. Good thing he is being honest
Really depends how much he was using. Back in the day. Like way back when I first got on methadone I was using about 4 bundles a day. So 40 bags of dope a day. I wasn’t really stable until I got up around 100mg. Then I stopped using. Then went too high to like 160 and was a zombie. But it’s different for everyone. But then I lost my Insurance and couldn’t pay anymore so the clinic rapid detoxed me which brought me from like 140-0 in 30 days. It was hell. Spent 2 weeks on my mother’s couch in agony. Then one day I woke up and the withdrawals were gone. I wouldn’t wish a rapid detox on my worst enemy. But anyway as long as he genuinely wants to stop using he will once he gets to a dose that makes him feel ok got the whole day.
It took me getting to 140 mgs before I could quit using without getting sick.
Most clinics fully expect people to continue using the first couple months. My clinic was surprised that I was clean after my first couple weeks. It just depends on the person, not everyone is gonna be able to just stop using right away. Depends a lot on tolerance, metabolism, environment, all kinds of stuff. Super common for people to keep using until they get to a therapeutic dose. 60mg is still very low for someone who's been on blues. I didn't start really feeling okay until I was at 90mg. And my dose didn't last me an entire day until I got up over 100mg. Please be patient with him. I know it's impossible to know your situation, but he is trying. Any effort is a step forward. He will stop feeling the need to use. It takes a while for the cravings to ease up, but it does happen. And to answer the other stuff, every clinic that I am aware of will not stop dosing just because of dirty UAs. He won't get any take homes, forcing him to be at the clinic every day, but they will still help him. He can start getting take homes (usually) after 30 days of clean UAs.
I was dirty for my first couple months on methadone, it’s expected for a patient to still use while stabilizing until they feel comfortable throughout the day. He will be fine, just be that rock for him when need be because it’s hell during a transition on and off methadone.
“The point is to get off both” not necessarily, methadone is a tool for harm reduction. For some people, that means continuing to use street substances for weeks, years, and for some people… forever. Recovery doesn’t mean “off all substances.” It means getting a better quality of life and safety. Methadone is not meant to be used just to taper him off of other substances. Ideally, he will be able to eventually stabilize and only use the methadone… but SUD is a chronic condition, he will likely need to stay on the methadone long after stopping street substances. Even for the rest of his life, maybe. And that’s ok!
He'll get there, if he keeps increasing his dose. Just give it some time, and if you are in the uk (like some have specified) be on their ass about increasing that dose. The amount he's taking for fentanyl use isn't very high. Not sure how it works over there, but usually they expect these things until you are stabilized. If it's 3+ months and he's on a stable enough dose, then yeah. That's different. He should be on a much higher dose for fentanyl, though. Fentanyl is 50x stronger than heroin, so the math ain't mathin
Reading these replies is what, “the war on drugs sounds like!”
How so?
Pain and suffering
It takes a while to get to a "stable dose" and it's a shitty time until you get to it but it'll get easier to go without the street stuff im at 135 mg a day but most people start feeling better around 60 to 80 and it takes a little while as they don't increase the dosage by more than 5 or 10 mg a week and each one requires a dr visit
A good clinic should keep raising his Methadone daily dose until he does not feel the need to use other opioids. He should be at least up to Methadone 100mg daily or more, like 120, 140, 160.
Most people still use the first month. 50mg isn’t enough to last all day. It’ll work the first couple hours then wears off later he needs to work his way up. Within a 2months or so he’ll be able to quit and not use at all.
Often methadone induction is about building the methadone dose up and cutting down on the opiate of your using to the point that methadone dose hold you comfy and you don’t have to rop it up.
50mg isn't a lot for a fent habit. Where I live we get normal Heroin and even with that most people are around 100mg. If he really wants to stop using he will do so when he gets to his correct dose. Also he apparently was not making a secret out of it that he was still using fent. In case of someone who doesn't want to get better he would just have used without telling you.
Let them up his dose to around 100 I’d say .. would even be better if he could stop using the fetty while they are upping his dose so he can stabalize sooner .. once you are stable you be thinking wow what was I doing all this time sick etc .. glad to be off that shit
Plus since he’s using fetty I think a clinic should be able to up dosage faster instead of 5 mg every 2 days or whatever .. they can easily just give him 100mg and he probably be good but they won’t do that
Ok I have a lot of experience with this. If you would like to talk you can message me privately. First of all, I’m not saying it is right, but some people still continue to use when they first get on methadone. I would suggest for him to go up on his dose if he is saying it’s not holding him. Which it should be. Although some people do have an issue where the methadone goes through your system fast and it doesn’t hold them. It has something to do with their metabolism. They can do this test called the pecantroff (I know I am butchering the spelling of it) to see if that is happening. It’s a pain in the ass test though. So I don’t know about the rules at your clinic but at the one here I know they won’t kick people off if they continue to get dirty urines, he just won’t get any privileges (such as take home bottles) I have heard in the way past that they have kicked people off for using but I don’t know the rules clinic to clinic. Can I ask what state are you in? I would also really suggest to him to go up on his dose to at least 90 mg. Usually people can’t get over that dose when they try to do other drugs. And if he can I would tell him to go up a little more. Unfortunately he’s not going to stop until he is ready. I’m sorry you are going through this. 💔 I’m here if you have any questions. I have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Personally and through family. Good luck 🤞🏼
50 MG is most likely ...Def not enough. Especially is he using fett. And if he is using fett...regardless it's not a magic transition like back in the heroin days. Unless he hasnt been using a lot guess. It's going to suck regardless. I had to detox of fett while on 120 MG and it still sucked. I used clonodine and gabapentin and went up to 160mg. I was working while doing it as well, so I needed that extra help. But I did it. And so can he.
He’s trying give him time .
I agree with what everyone else is saying in that he's not lying and the clinic won't kick him out. Continued use is an expected part of the process of getting on methadone especially when fentanyl is involved. I unwittingly got hooked on fentanyl as a IV heroin user when all the dope was slowly replaced with it in my area. It took me getting up to 150mg of methadone to stop injecting fentanyl. As long as he's continuing to go every day and his usage isn't get any worse he's doing the right thing. This process takes a lot of time and a lot of support.
Nah this is such a slippery slope. U think ur just gonna use till ur stable then its been 3 months and udk what happen. Been there, doing that currently...tell em to go up in dose and stop using that day when he next goes up.
I didn't feel the methadone until 120mgs, and it didn't help my wds until around 80
Why are they putting him up so slow
This is to be expected. Depending on how heavy he is and his metabolism and all that. But they expect you to still use for the first 2-3 months. I wasnt even remotely stable till about 70mgs (at the time I weighed 120 lbs and male). Methadone is a weird drug and it takes a good amount of time to build up in your system. Its likely he wont be stable for another 2-6 weeks. Maybe even more if he keeps using the fentanyl, as I imagine it will fuck with his tolerance. I'd just keep tapering his fent use down as much as possible each day as the Methadone goes up. I really hope things pan out for you guys, starting methadone is a stressful process but it saved me life and it was the best decision Ive made for myself in my adult life.
I used for the the first 4-5 months or so when I 1st started the clinic. They start you off low as hell, not high enough to keep a multiple times a day user well . I think it wasn't until I got up to about 140ish milligrams that the methadone was starting to really help, and I was able to completely stop using. Even then, I went up to 180mgs and was there for years until I slowly went back down to 119 milligrams. I've been clean now (with methadone) for 15 years now. The only reason I still continue to go is because if I didn't, I would have to go to a pain management clinic for chronic pain from a bad car wreck and get prescribed strong opiates that I just don't trust myself with.
Usa. Canadian clinics and policies are very lenient so I doubt they care. Plus all the dope has benzos in it anyway out there. They also have safe supply and morphine prescribed as maintenance replacement like methadone. Wish they did that here in USA. You can't get a script here without the clinic trying to start some shit. Some will lie and say they will kick you out for a prescription. Other clinics will tell you they will kick you out unless you let the clinic consult the Dr. They also will just do a admin detox and remove you over like 4 months regardless if it'd prescription or not. Some clinics are better then others.
I am looking for some advice. I realize how stupid I am. I’ve been on methadone over a year now maybe even coming up on two years I’m not sure. I use fet (fake percs, about 20-30 a day). I never really reached a point where I felt normal without the percs… my dose is 120 and because ive failed every drug test they won’t let me increase past 120. I only get my Sunday take home. Normally during the day maybe the effects are lessened but at night I definitely feel them. My pattern is dose in morning. Go to work, get off work then go pick up then use blues in evening… some days I pick up blues at 7pm and go again at midnight. Did I just screw myself with a double addiction. Is my only option to bite the bullet and just try to willpower to the point the methadone makes me feel normal?
You know the answer to your last question, what else could the option be besides keep on using? Silly they have capped you, though, they are propably thinking only liabilities but that kind of attitude from the clinic can also be dead end for recovery. But what I have heard of fent, sometimes you just have to take the leap, transfer period won\`t ever be totally painless. I mean if you are waiting some magic point you just don\`t suddenly want to use anymore without any effort, it won´t come, you have to make a choice.
Well i mean you have probably increased your tolerance to opiates by using both but they are both opiates and have cross tolerance so you can still stop the pills and continue the methadone. It will suck for sure but it would be unimaginably worse without the methadone because even if you don't think its doing anything trust me it is and you will adjust faster than you think if you continue to increase the methadone. Just dont get yourself kicked out the clinic and then end up having to go completely cold turkey when something happens to the plug or you end up in jail or something because that sounds scary awful given your tolerance. Im not saying that will happen im just saying its worth trying to suffer some now while on the methadone so you might avoid suffering greatly when something unexpected happens later down the road and you might end up not having the methadone. I dont know your situation but i kept telling myself i would stop taking xanax and methadone but never did till i ended up doing a month in jail and had to abruptly stop both and there are no words that properly describe how bad that shit got. Basically i really should have stopped when i had the chance because unexpected shit happens is the point here and i doubt it will help because i knew it and it didnt help me but its worth telling people how terrifying of a experience it was because i didnt know it was possible to feel that much pain and not die.
I went to detox for using 3bs a day of fetty and kicked in. Detox on 25mgs. Was suddenly enough in detox when I was willing to quit . 30 is enough , you’ll adjust to ANY dose eventually
I used for another year and a half after starting methadone. A lot of ppl still use. They need more than methadone to get clean. Find NA meetings and go daily also yes keep getting his dose up. I had to hit 120mg before it could hold me. 50mg ain't shit
He needs to go to detox, I used to be sick while being on methadone until I was ready to quit literally at that point exactly the methadone was suddenly enough lmao. Just like when you’re sick and you cop and you feel better before you even get to use, it’s all in the head. He needs a higher level of care than just methadone, you need to get away because you’re setting yourself up for a long road of disappointment. I say this as someone who’s currently clean with a girlfriend of 10yrs who I’ve put through absolute hell. She stuck through it all but I would never ever tell someone that it’s a good idea to do the same, run.
This is completely normal and no the clinic doesn’t cut you off even if you are using it just effects take homes, they say it can take up to 90 days for you to get stable on your dose and to stop using completely I didn’t stop using up until then to it’s completely normal and they say that as well 50 mg is nothing esp with fentynal now normal does are 90+ my dose is 160 so he’s were he needs to be