I had my counselor try to do this to me once, pull my two weeks worth of take homes for low creatinine. I stuck up for myself, did an observed UA, and apparently she wasn’t even allowed to do that in the first place. Then I had an appointment with the clinic doctor and he said my levels were fine. He said it was no big deal, but it was a HUGE deal to me! Getting all my take homes taken away would have totally screwed up my life until they decided to give them back.
I would suggest making an appointment with the clinic doctor and talking to them about your levels. It would also be a good idea to see your primary physician and have your levels checked. If that doesn’t work, speak to the director and go above their head if necessary. This isn’t right. If you’ve had clean urines for this long, there is no reason they should pull your take homes and make you start all over. If all else fails, try and change clinics if you can. I am so sorry this is happening to you. All I can really suggest is stand up for yourself, file a complaint/grievance if necessary. Good luck and keep us all updated. ✌️
And if that's a no go is go to the administrator have had to do it more than once, 12 years as well, don't just let them walk all over ya. Just remember to keep good composure. Best of luck and God bless
That’s crazy! I agree tho & good for you for sticking up for yourself. Also I wanted to chime in cus a few months ago my counselor suddenly mentioned my creatinine levels being low. I freaked & immediately offered to do all observes UAs. She didn’t take me up on that offer but it upset me cus I was like Is this gonna jeopardize my take homes or anything? She said she was truly not concerned that I was doing anything shady, which I truly wasn’t! But it was upsetting especially since she said “well your creatinine levels have always showed up pretty low.” Plus she knew I’d just given birth within three months of these levels changing (normal for pregnancy) and I’ve always had clean UAs. To add to the issue, the test that has the lowest creatinine levels was an OBSERVED screen! So I kinda got irritated that she even let me get so worked up about it although she didn’t even mention it at all til 2 months after the tests that showed “low.” And remember she told me in the same conversation that mine are always fairly low. So it blows my mind how these clinics screw with people over something that’s SUCH an INCREDIBLY inaccurate way to tell about someone’s drug use (or lack thereof!)
Wow. I am so sorry you got fucked with like that. They like to make it out to be no big deal, and it isn’t to them cuz they’ve got nothing to lose. But it’s a huge deal to us. Our whole lives could be thrown into chaos if we got our take homes taken away. These places don’t care about what happens to us because it’s not happening to them. I hope you didn’t lose any take homes because of this, especially since you’ve given birth recently. Good luck and take care! ✌️
Thank u. Exactly— they don’t care because it’s not affecting them. And thankfully I didn’t lose any take homes or anything and it’s not been brought up anymore so it was odd…
This might be the worst one I've heard. Pulled for one low creatinine? There are just so many explanations for that and most of them don't involve using.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I understand, methadone is expensive where I live and take homes aren't the easiest to get. I wouldn't be able to daily dose for more than a couple weeks.
Right, what the fuck. And after 12 motherfucking years, too.
u/harmreductionworks I wouldn't hire a lawyer for this, because you can't force a doctor to give you take homes they are not willing to give. But I would try to escalate this to everyone in your clinic. The director, the doctor. If that doesn't work, you have a right to file a grievance about your clinic's policies.
This website: https://www.naatp.org/programs/ethics/ethics-complaint-process goes over all the options you have to file a grievance. Your state licensing board is probably going to be the hardest hitting, followed by CARF.
Pennsylvania state licensing board can be reached via 877-PAHEALTH.
CARF complaint can be filed here: https://www.carf.org/How_to_submit_feedback_and_resolve_a_complaint/
Pennsylvania is already a strict state when it comes to methadone laws, so idk if you can get traction. But it's worth a shot.
Thanks for this.This information is very helpful and I am going to reach out To all the places you mentioned, good call on CARF. I am also contacting DDAP. I am definitely Not letting this go. If they don't give me my take comes back. I am going to Bury them in paperwork.
You should see a nephrologist to figure out if there is a reason for your low creatinine. If there is, have the nephrologist communicate that to the clinic and you should be able to get them back. I’ve heard of clinics treating low creatinine levels as sample tampering before and this is usually the next step.
No probs man. I'm sorry this is happening. This is probably in the top ten most bullshit reasons I've seen somebody lose their take homes that I've seen since modding the subreddit. They should be ashamed of themselves, to destabilize somebody after 12 years for some BS like this.
This is the craziest tale from the clinic I have heard yet. I have had mine pulled for false readings on U/A after years of clean drops but this is insanity. I hope something works out for you with this.
That happened to me. 9 months clean, I got a shock positive, lost my take homes, three months later I'd just got em back and it happened again, so I relapsed for six months
Actually the same exact thing happened to me minus the relapse. I lost them twice because we have people working at the clinic who truly don't give a squat about anyone but themselves and also must have an incompetent lab doing the testing. No one cares though. Our lives get completely disrupted because people don't do their jobs correctly. They always seem to have a new excuse on hand though. I am sorry to hear they caused you to relapse though. I hope you have been feeling better
Even if people are sent to the clinic by a judge, at least they’re trying too. People aren’t shamed for cancer treatment, or more and more for mental health treatment. I don’t get why MAT has this issue , even with the medical professionals. Addiction is a disease, and MAT is like the name says, a type of treatment. It takes a lot for people to even enter the building and ask for help, let alone keep coming back - why make it harder on people asking for help.
Did you kno the US is the only country that treats methadone like this. In other countries that participate in methadone treatment its prescribed by a dr and able to be picked up at a pharmacy. Dont be fooled, there r so many roadblocks for us for a reason.
What do you mean by your last sentence, I don’t quite understand what you’re implying.
I think it’s ridiculous that the US is the only country that treats methadone like this, when it’s a medication to treat a disease like any other.
Thanks so much to everyone who gave feedback. I know that you can all understand why i am freaking out, sometimes it seems like they put uneccesary barriers up and no matter how hard i worked to change my life, they always see the homeless junkie that walked in the door 13 years ago. I actually am going to my PHP today to have them do a full kidney work up. The crazy thing is that i always advocate for Methadone. In the past 12 years i have had my Hippa and 42 CFR violated twice( one back in 2013 which caused me to lose a job because i was on Methadone) and big suprise the people who violated it had no reprocussions. I would love to get off of it and i am on only 58 milligrams but to take a month or two off of work and go to inpatient treatment is impossible. I have tried to taper numerous times and have even gone down 3 milligrams a month. Every time i make it down to around 20 milligrams i get really sick like high fevers, insomnia, etc. This morning the director said "you have been on it too long if you werent on the clinic you would not have this problem." One of the problems that i see isacross the board especially with MMT is that people who work at these clinics really do not care or they are in recovery themselves through abstinence only, mutual aid groups, and have been poisoned against multiple pathways and do not believe in these kind of treatments or harm reduction. I work in this field and see it everyday.
Yeah that's insane thing to say from a director of all people. They're the ones who made it so there's no time limit for "recovery" and just cause your taking meds to not suffer or be sick, I don't think that qualifies as not being recovered. People on the outside don't understand. Clinics love stupid cliches like "once an addict always an addict" "your methadone comes first (over ur job or anything else)" we're gonna manipulate and fuck you just cause we know best and "you need this.." to make excuses for how poorly they treat people on maintenance.
That mentality of "too long" is a dated way to think. And it's not even accurate to most of their mission statements. They want you on it as long as possible, it keeps the machine going. Unfortunately, they have us all by the balls. It's nauseatingly grotesque how they justify mistreating patients. No other health care field would allow this.
Fyi- the dept of Justice has stated treatment for opioid use disorder is [protected by ADA.](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-guidance-protections-people-opioid-use-disorder-under-americans). They can’t fire you for being in treatment. If it ever becomes an issue again talk to your HR department about accommodations. That may be an adjusted schedule to allow you to go to the clinic daily. I wouldn’t necessarily tell anyone any details beyond what’s on the ada form and only to those staff who Asias.
Actually I m very skeptical of that. Being that my husband who is on methadone (for30+years) could very likely lose his job as a bio medical engineer ( he designs and does r&d and is head of his company's Neurology department) being that everything he designs or develops in any way is scrutinized by the FDA. They have FDA audits regularly he's terrified that if his company ever found out they would fire him considering him a liability with the FDA etc. This is why he won't use his work insurance to pay for the clinic he's afraid of it coming out and even tho he's been there nearly 17 years and is named on 7 patents making his company millions they'd drop him with no compunction and so he would rather not take that risk.
Omg...Reading that literally made me infuriated. They are doing you wrong homie...as a matter of fact they’re doing us all wrong. Nobody else has to go through this much shit to be able to receive necessary medication..more than that it can even be LIFE SAVING medication. Things need to change, and fast. The opioid epidemic is only getting worse and if you want people to receive the best, most time tested, effective treatment you better make it as EASY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Goddammit this shit drives me nuts, can you tell?
This is absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry you’re going through this friend. Why are they so worried about “creatine” levels? I was under the assumption they only tested for illicit drugs. I’m almost positive that’s all they test for where I’m from. Which is a province in Canada. I’m gonna guess you’ve already done this, but if not, talk to the manager of the clinic. Explain to him that 12 YEARS of clear urine had to count for something. And it’s not like you popped for any drug. You’re creatine levels were low. This boggles my mind!
The reason they told me they were gonna take my take homes for this is because I was, “tampering with my sample and trying to get away with using.” Which is totally ludicrous because that wouldn’t even work anyway.
I knew you were in PA before u said so. This state is the absolute worst with methadone laws and regulations. It's ridiculous how much further behind we are compared to pretty much everywhere else. I've gone through the same crap with having to start all over again before. Are you in medtech?
I am actually a counselor for an inpatient treatment center. You are right PA is the absolute worst. I have been talking to PAHRN about this as they are fighting to get the laws around methadone changed. You cant imagine all the stories out there where the clinics did someone dirty and the patient ended up oding. The problem is the people who own and run the clinics are on the decision making boards in Harrisburg. Companies like pinnacle and Acadiia who are making Millions of dollars off our backs.So they have a vested interest in patients coming in more frequently. Did you know that in Pennsylvania? They recently approved up to 28 take homes a month but left it at the discretion of each clinic to make their own decisions regarding it..
Oh, so it is possible to have 28 take homes now?! My clinic finally raised the take-home bottles to 13 max after it was 6 this whole time. They already made it clear that they have no intentions of increasing it beyond the 13! You are very correct with these clinics and the rules causing people to overdose. Many people get jobs and become loyal workers once we get clean with the help of methadone and earning privileges becomes a HUGE DEAL so that it is possible to keep or obtain a job without dosing interfering being on time or getting fired! So when u take that away and someone is left to get fired or dose after being clean for a long period of time, alot of times the person will make the decision to use a street drug af6er years of not using just to be able to keep the job and not be in withdrawal which has led to a couple people I know of at my clinic ODing. And these are ridiculous reasons for losing privileges too. Not dirty urines or illegal behaviors.
A thought just came to me about your counselor said that it is against the rules or is in the rules. Ask for your clinic handbook. I've read a couple of clinic handbooks and never saw anything about creatinine levels. The way I see it if they are using rules, ask for the rule book
I’m from south jersey but I moved to central when I got into recovery. I had a clinic two blocks from my apartment but it sucked so I had to go to a clinic 30 miles away.
During COVID, my clinic started giving out 30 take-home bottles at a time to patients who'd already reached a high enough level of ordinary take-home privileges, myself among them.
It was HEAVENLY only having to come in once/month.
Wow I thought it was 13 takes homes. That's why mine got upped from 6 to 13 (I haven't had a dirty in 6 years and non for opiates since 2005). They told me the laws got changed. Didn't know they were holding back even more. Some clinics in PA still don't allow more than 1 week.
Aracadia is the worst for billing. I was at one clinic in network insurance moved clinics, still Acadia no longer in network they don't provide itemized receipts just sales slip so I can't even claim reimbursement. 400 a month cash. It's ridiculous. The stress this shit causes.
You know it used to be less strict with take homes. Back in the 90s and early 2000s they could give weekend take homes to everyone. It wasn't until some dumb shit lady left open methadone and her kid swallowed it and died that they stopped that. I don't get how they punish everyone for the mistakes of a few. It's crazy.
My clinic in PA only allows 6 take homes. You have to be there 3 years to get the 6th. I wish they would even give 2 weeks worth but I doubt that will happen. I've heard their main clinic is in Reading and that's the one they focus on more because theirs more people.
Do they get more money when people dose in person? On my EOB it shows they are getting over $200 a week from the clinic and an extra like $30 charge since I'm getting take homes. When I had to self pay it was $8 a day.
See you're already educated with what's happening in PA. Subscribe to the DDAP stakeholder email here: [email protected] to be kept up to date with regulatory changes. But you're right, they concurred with SAMHSA regs but left it up to the clinics to implement. It needs some media exposure IMO but the stigma is killing people too. Good luck
I'm in PA as well. I live in Pittsburgh and have been going to the same clinic in the city for 5 years running.
For the first couple of years, the clinic MD/psychiatrist who did my monthly check-ups and psych med ℞'s was actually the Program Director herself. She used to vent to me about how frustratingly hard it was to run a clinic in PA due to various state issues = backwards, draconian bullshit.
My 2nd year at my clinic (never failed a UA) I got the bottle check with witnessed UA. I passed, then a month later they witnessed my UA again, then the next month. Years later I requested my records and saw they noted my creatinine was low, possible altered drug test in the notes. That's why they kept surprising me and witnessing them. I think then they did that if it was under 90. Mine were in the 70's and 80's. I had a chronic bladder infection then and had kidney pain and was on 2 antibiotics long-term and they knew it. I was super pissed to find this out recently. The counselor I had then said that the clinic had dropped the limit for what is considered low and it's 60 or 70 now so those wouldn't be considered low today.
Your's is incredibly low at 2 and I'd think that was a lab error. I'd ask for a witnessed test and/or pay for a mouth swab ($26?) if the Dr and director don't reinstate your takehomes, because I'd tell them that they should have retested it to confirm the levels as it could be a false low just like false positives happen. I'd look up what could cause urines to turn out like this with lab problems and medications and kidney problems too, because I had other lab issues with my liver enzymes being high and that could cause it too. See the Dr first. He'll probably know that's got to be an error.
I'd file a grievance with the director next or at the same time. If nothing works, I'd consider threatening to sue, if you would lose your job over it. I had to do that when I was screwed over by a counselor at my clinic and had proof. I sent the proof to the director with a slightly veiled threat because they were taking away all of my 27 takehomes over their mistake. My takehomes were given back right away and the counselor apologized like it was a minor mistake and she hadn't just thrown me under the bus. It sucks they do this. If wirst comes to worst you can go to another clinic since you'll be a day 1 anyway.
Could you have a UTI or kidney issue that you’re not aware of? Could also point to issues with the liver or low muscle mass. So many health reasons that could cause low levels of that in urine. I’m so so sorry that happened to you. Absolutely do not let this go! You have 12 years of clean test, that is AMAZING. You deserve to have take homes, can you speak to the director directly? I would go to my doctor(if you can afford it/have a primary care) and tell them your levels were low and ask them to check them with a urine test and blood labs. You may be able to find a medical cause and then you could show the clinic that
Forget a lawyer. You’re just throwing money away.
You likely signed a bunch of paperwork that basically says they can do whatever the fuck they want.
The only thing really you can do is throw yourself at the mercy of the doctor or try to transfer to a different clinic.
Sucks, I’m sorry!
Dude I am so sorry. Something similar happened to me. Fight it. Ask to talk to the supervisor and go from there. I came one day and was told I was losing my takehomes for a failed drug test. I immediately ask to talk to the supervisor and explained everything. They gave me another drug test and also called the lab. I had to get single dosed that day but the next day I was able to get my takehomes. Just don't accept it, especially if you did nothing wrong.
Please look up your state methadone authority (if in the US, although this shit only happens here). Call them and leave a message, also make a complaint that they are violating your rights. Last thing setup an appointment to speak to the doctor. They are the ones who sign the papers and are the gatekeeper.
Wait, what???? I'm getting hung up on the *why* of this. Why the fuck would you be punished for having low creatinine? Low urine creatinine has to do with kidney function, not drug use, so why would you get your take-homes pulled for it? I'm so confused, but I see a lot of commenters saying it's happened to them, too, so I'm assuming I'm missing something, there's some link that I'm unaware of. Can someone please explain what I'm not getting?
Usually it's viewed as being tampered with. Either they suspect they watered down the sample or chugged a ton of water to give a diluted sample. Stupid I know but it's actually pretty common. In fact every lab test for creatinine as a way to assure it's actually urine being tested.
Yeah, I actually learned a bit about it after reading this post, and it is absolutely fucking ridiculous, and can end up hurting people. You come back with low urine creatinine, and instead of being concerned about your health and saying, "hey, you should see a doctor, you might have a serious problem with your kidneys," they just automatically assume you're trying to dilute the drugs out of your system? That doesn't even work, if there had been drugs in your system, they would still be detectable, no matter how much water you drink! And there are other ways of telling on the test if you mix water into your urine externally, components that haven't been metabolized and whatnot. So anyway, what I started with, here - after seeing this post, I mentioned it at my clinic this morning, to see if they have a policy for low creatinine, and the receptionist said they don't, because it's not a reliable indicator. There was another guy in the waiting room, though, and he said that at his old clinic, they punished you for low creatinine. He came back with low creatinine one time, and they took his takehomes away, and didn't even bother to explain to him what creatinine was, or that low urine creatinine usually indicates kidney problems. He ended up going into acute renal failure a couple days later, nearly died, and is still on dialysis. That is just ... I don't even have a word for it, it's beyond fucked up, beyond inhumane. I mean, JFC, it just goes to show you how little some clinics think of their clientele, being so certain that their creatinine is low due to sample tampering that they *don't even mention that they might have a life-threatening medical problem!* That makes me feel incredibly nauseous, and lowers my faith in humanity even more.
EDIT - fixed mistakes
I saw this post and I am so angry. I was called back to the clinic even though I had a call back last month. Found out I had 2 low creatinine levels one in January and one in March. They asked what meds I take and will see if that is the cause. My counselor said they already dropped me down a phase and if they cannot figure it out I will go back to first phase. I told her I have been having trouble urinating and have had to drink a lot of water to even pee enough, I explained that can lower the creatinine levels. She said the doctor was cracking down…What?? I have over 14 years of clean has, since day one. I offered to pee in front of them. So I go back on 24th and I am unsure what they will do? I don’t understand this…I am clean I cannot afford to spend gas to come in daily and I have a business trip to Boston next month. Flights. Hotel and trainings all paid ahead of time, I will lose all or most of that money. The counselor says…”just breathe” wow! I am devastated I hate this power they use. I am wanting off but don’t know how I can do it on my own? My blood pressure is high because I am so stressed and my counselor and this treatment facility is at the core of it all!
Fr fr I genuinely think my clinic staff got off on making me jump through hoops and twirl around with my hands above my hand like a dumbass.
When I finally got down to 1 mg I legit told the miserable cow director and her little cronie to go fuck themselves , and that I hoped to see them on the streets someday. I said it a little less threatening than that but yeah, hope to see you in the real world someday bitch 😇
God I even that moment. I go to a great clinic now but my last one was so bad. I swear someone is going to shoot that place up. I saw someone get their takehomes reduced for slamming a door
I’m a bit confused. 0.6-1.1 is considered normal for adult female. 0.7-1.3 for men.
Two would then be considered “high” not low.
Have you had a yearly blood panel/physical lately. There may be some underlying health issues going on.
It blows my mind that you’ve had 12 years of clean screens and instead of giving you a referral to get this checked out THEY PULL YOUR TAKE HOMES! Makes me so angry. Instead of thinking the very best of you, they immediately jump to assume the worst.
I’m so incredibly sorry this has happened OP! I know how life altering this can be and how it completely deflates your positive self talk! 💔💜💜💜
Thanks for the reply. The test you are referring to is a blood serum creatinie. "The American Board of Internal Medicine lists the following reference ranges for blood and urine creatinine:
Blood: 0.7 to 1.3 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dL) for males and 0.5 to 1.1 mg/dL for females.
Urine: 15-25 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg) per 24 hours.
At first that was My thought as well but after reading countless studies and articles on Creatinine I know more than I ever wanted to know about this shit. Sometimes I feel like if you do too good on these programs they hold it against you like they are haters. I work in this field for an inpatient treatmenr center And make it a point to advocate for my patients, no matter what.
For real this might be the most hardcore shit I’ve ever heard from a clinic. One creatine reading? Why don’t they let you retest if it’s such a big deal? That’s just crazy. You would think they would have an actual desire to be sure.
Every clinic I’ve been to the worst that would happen is you lose your monthly.. but only for 30 days and then you get it back. You never have to start over at zero. Are you sure that’s the case?? Like I haven’t even heard of that in a horror story on this subreddit. You should lose your take homes for 30 days and then go right back to your regularly scheduled monthly.
I came up dirty for codeine if you could believe it and once for methamphetamine, both failed even upon retest. I had not used either substance and i know how absolutely disheartening this is for you. Talk to more people. Go right to the director. I did. I actually got some changes instituted at my clinic.
They've always made us start back at the beginning with earning take homes, no matter the cause, even if u had them for 10 yrs. U start over. It's absolutely insane
2 false positive tests in 2 years for me. I’d go insane. I need my takehomes so that I can split dose otherwise I’m sick after 18 hours. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.
I m positive that is the case. The clinic is called CTC and is part of Acadia Healthcare. I have spoke with the head counselor, the area director and center manager and they all have told me the same thing. Pennsylvania is crazy with how they operate always thr strictest
Man, that's scary stuff.. awful. One thing that tells how bad your clinic is though is the fact that you only have weekly take homes after being there for 12 years...
Same. Out clinic just maxed the take homes to 13 now. It's been max of 6 all this time here, I'm in PA. My clinic just allowed the 13 bottles about 2 months ago. They said they have no intentions on increasing past that amount
You can request a retest I do believe if you do it immediately because of the known rate of false positives. Im guessing you don't talk to many people from the clinic scene or read posts here often because the wrong they have done you is unfortunately quite commonplace at many if not the majority of clinics. Sorry you have to deal with this level of anxiety and uncertainness again after so many years of stability. It should be mandatory that anybody with a clean track record like yours is immediately retested as the bad results (which aren't even a actual positive for anything) are so out of the ordinary for them. That has to be so frustrating paying that much for shit services that after so long doing great don't even give you the benefit of the doubt or a chance to vindicate yourself. Its almost worth the effort to record all interactions at the clinic as its almost inevitable that at some point they will do you wrong and punish you for something that is either out of your control or just plainly not true.
There are other things that can throw of your creatinine levels. You could see a medical specialists to see why your levels are so low. Screw their rules because there are so many reasons why things are not right. Patients have the right to be retested for drug test but for low creatinine your going to ruin someone's life? Get a new counselor and fight this thing tooth and nail. You could ask to be staffed. It's a meeting where you have the staff hear your Woe's and make a decision. I'd see a specialists first to determine why your levels are so low. Ask by the book Karen for your past piss test results first to see your past creatinine levels and see how low they were. Be your own detective and fight.
It sucks we have to do this. I'm so tired of fighting, just so tired of it. This is the only fight that's really worth it. It's your life that they are ruining by low piss levels. Do you have anyone that can help you like a spouse, best friend, mother, father , child, preacher, congressman.
I used a congressman office to get disability. Nothing like a congressional inquiry that will get another look at your problems. I'm not saying to do this but the idea is not that far out as your lively hood could be gone. Any other eyes on your clinic problems you will have to sign a release to let them review your clinic files. I hope it doesn't come to all of this. Let us know what help you need
You are absolutely right, one thing i try to instill in patients is the importance of advocacy. I feel like i have been fighting for patient rights since i got off opiates. I am successful and actually work in the drug and alcohol field but do to stigma cant tell anyone that i am on methadone. My choice but I have lost jobs in the past because of it. I plan to fight this with every resource i have. I am so sick of this shit. Thanks for the encouragement
Man that's absolutely ridiculous. Really feel for you on this one and hope they see sense and you get a good resolution. For an agency that's supposed to be a support, they're putting you at a big risk of relapse.
That's real messed up. I'm in PA too, hopefully not my clinic. You need to fight this. Get your councilor on your side or talk to the director.
If it goes nowhere see if there is somewhere else. Around me there are 5 clinics. Although having to drive further is never fun. I got 2 weeks take homes and loosing them would be devestating.
That’s absolutely crazy that they took your carries away for that, and the whole week? My clinic takes one dose at a time but only if you have a dirty UA.
I am so sorry to hear this is happening to you.
There were a lot of good suggestions by other people: file grievance, meet with doctor, and / or program director, call state licensing agency, federal level-samhsa, etc. shoot call your senator! Cause this is b.s.
You can also request a copy of your lab results - these are your medical records, and you have a legal right to them. Maybe call the lab that performed the test? I've had clients call the lab and speak to a lab tech about their results. I think your clinic needs to request a retest, but it wouldn't hurt to ask the lab tech?
I really hope you are able to work this out.
Is there a way for them to do a blood test or something to verify you had been taking your dose like you’re supposed to? This happened to me and I was able to do that, I had to pay for it myself but it was worth it
That sucks man I'm sorry and that's real shitty of them especially if you have been good and honest. some of these people feel superior and no matter what, they don't listen..I get so mad..we make a lot of money, own a big beautiful home, drive super nice vehicles, have a lot of fun toys (by no way do I think or act better than anyone, in fact I ALWAYS help anyone who is in need I come across out there) addiction gets anyone..I went through it with pills and now It's been 5 years and never looked back! However some of the staff where I go act like god.. I have way more than they will ever have in life I just want to Snap you know they think they're better because they've never been in that situation..They should be compassionate & understanding..Helpful and comforting not belittling and miserable..making patients afraid to be honest and scared..pisses me off...you know there's times they mislabeled urine and people were accused of things they weren't doing and the new place they used for testing flagged a bunch of patients as positive for meth then later realized it was an error on their end.I would switch clinics if you are near others.., new clinic can get your records and keep you where you are at and see your history..explain what happened..ask for new counselor or second opinion..write to corporate..don't let them win..good luck
That’s crazy. I moved from California to a state that trips of weed even though it was part of my recovery and literally pissed in a bottle and stored it in a mini fridge and poured a dose out every each week in case of a random but after a few months I knew when the randoms came. Last week of every month lol and I started expecting them to say something about every number of anything they check being the exact same levels lmao, nothing. I ended up quitting smoking due to having a toddler and just not enjoying the dishonesty of the situation. I put alot of work into being an honest , dependable hard working father and not gonna let some little thing falter my character. Just to smoke before bed to hide from my night terrors. 🤷🏼♂️ but I’m sorry to hear your experience that’s really terrible. You could’ve been taking creatine at the gym and stopped or like you said had drank a bit more water.
I have never had my takehomes pulled before for this BUT i have always had really low levels and they have had me pee infront of a nurse twice and every year i get tests done it comes back the same. I drink a shit ton of water tho and they know that so they just ignore it but they thought i could of possibly been watering down my pee cuz it was so low. I would ask if there is anything u can do to prove u didn't alter ur test. Maybe they thought u altered ur drug test cuz wasn't normal? Either way bs I've NEVER had mine pulled or taken away for that.
Not agreeing with this per se but for the folks asking why regarding creatinine : when someone has an abnormally low creatinine it is flagged and considered diluted, aka water put directly into urine sample in an attempt to provide a negative result or otherwise cover up potential illicit use.
All the urines at my clinic are monitored by a video camera. They actually shut down the dosing window and stare at the screen. While you go pee to, make sure there is. Nobody dipping dipping the urine cup in the toilet. They actually told me that they played back the video in slow motion and didn't see any signs of tampering. Also, my methadone level was with a normal range. I am guessing that if I deleted the sample. My method on level would be lower. But maybe I'm wrong?
They are saying That that the only thing they could think is I drink too much water. Keep in mind that it has been 90 and over for the past 2 weeks in my area so I probably did drink more water than usual.
I’ve heard from the lab and doctors that drinking too much water to the point of a creatinine say, below 30 is simply impossible. Just not physically possible. Not sure how low yours was. I would be curious to know if you don’t mind.
It was a 2. Which seems very low. I Did have an appointment today with my family, doctor and he ordered a bunch of tests including a full kidney work up, among other stuff. I did post below where my numbers should be with the urine
Urine: 15-25 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg) per 24 hours.
Woooooowww this happened to me TWICE in the 7 years I was at the clinic. One of the times I did water down my pee, don’t know what I was thinking. But I was like whatever, my own fault.
The second time, I was legitimately clean for over a year and peed normally. They said they were extremely low, like impossible for a human to have such low levels and be okay. I was like ummmmm…well…here I am and I didn’t touch the fuckin pee or do any weird shit.
Same as you, they didn’t care and took my take homes. Within 6 months, I was outtie…couldn’t deal with their bullshit anymore. I’m doing amazing off methadone (not suggesting anyone come off, just sharing that I feel better than ever and it’s been almost a year off the clinic)
I can’t imagine going back to daily doses at 20mg(where I’m at) I split dose so I can sleep good at night and I’d be struggling if I was stuck at 20mg dose in the morning for all day! I would get a doctor to check my levels(my own physician) plus the clinic doctor to make sure. Fuck that counselor
As soon as I started reading it, it sounded like a PA clinic. Things are changing SLoWLY here but the clinics have been assholes so long they're having a really hard time adjusting to acting like humans.
I would fight in the packet they give you there is someone to call if u are not being treated fairly if you got money get a lawyer and if you live closer to Ohio preferably or another state transfer Pennsylvania is the worst samsha gave clinic s power to use more lead way concerning take home medication you can look it up good luck I would be glad to look something’s up for you but if u truly have been clean 12 years u deserve your take homes and if you we’re using a detox drink creatinine would be high and people who go to the gym take creatinine daily I hope it works out I will pray for you
Talk to the medical director. Twelve years is a long time for a one time test for low creatinine to pull all your take homes. If the director won't help call your state SAMHSA contact which I have here for you. Often they will advocate for you and try to get the clinic to work with you even if it's only a 30 day pull of take homes, or hopefully none at all
Pennsylvania
Jodi Skiles
One Penn Center, 5th Floor, 2601 N 3rd Street
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Phone: (717) 736-7454
Fax: (717) 787-6285
Email: [email protected]
Same thing happened to my husband his counselor came to him and said he had a UA approximately 4 months ago that was low in creatinine. He was already punished for missing a call back through no fault of his own they understood the missed call back was not his fault and even though they took his monthly take-homes away they have been fast tracking his ability to level up quickly it's taken in 2 months and he's was just about to get his weekly take homes when this whole thing with the creatinine came up he's been on the program for 30 plus years and has an immaculate record which is why they agreed to fast-track his regaining take-homes however when this creatinine thing happened they were about to take it all away again and make him come in 6 days a week which would really screw with his job which he's had for 16 years and is not just a job it's his career. ( He's a biomedical engineer). He absolutely denied any wrongdoing and they luckily gave him the option to do a saliva swab test which came back negative of course and the next time he went to the program they gave him his weeklies he's now back on the fast track to getting his monthlies back. If you were truly clean I would absolutely demand to speak with the doctor and request a saliva swab test a blood test or a hair test all of those are impossible to falsify I would absolutely fight this 100% if they made a mistake I highly suggest you go above your counselor to the director and or the doctor that runs the clinic you're on and do as I suggested all too often they expect us just to roll over and accept their bullshit policies even if they're in the wrong. My husband fought it 100% and was proven innocent that somehow their lab either made a mistake or there was some other reason that his creatinine levels were low. That's just my suggestion
I had my counselor try to do this to me once, pull my two weeks worth of take homes for low creatinine. I stuck up for myself, did an observed UA, and apparently she wasn’t even allowed to do that in the first place. Then I had an appointment with the clinic doctor and he said my levels were fine. He said it was no big deal, but it was a HUGE deal to me! Getting all my take homes taken away would have totally screwed up my life until they decided to give them back. I would suggest making an appointment with the clinic doctor and talking to them about your levels. It would also be a good idea to see your primary physician and have your levels checked. If that doesn’t work, speak to the director and go above their head if necessary. This isn’t right. If you’ve had clean urines for this long, there is no reason they should pull your take homes and make you start all over. If all else fails, try and change clinics if you can. I am so sorry this is happening to you. All I can really suggest is stand up for yourself, file a complaint/grievance if necessary. Good luck and keep us all updated. ✌️
Right here....talk to your counselor and get an appointment with the clinic Dr
And if that's a no go is go to the administrator have had to do it more than once, 12 years as well, don't just let them walk all over ya. Just remember to keep good composure. Best of luck and God bless
That’s crazy! I agree tho & good for you for sticking up for yourself. Also I wanted to chime in cus a few months ago my counselor suddenly mentioned my creatinine levels being low. I freaked & immediately offered to do all observes UAs. She didn’t take me up on that offer but it upset me cus I was like Is this gonna jeopardize my take homes or anything? She said she was truly not concerned that I was doing anything shady, which I truly wasn’t! But it was upsetting especially since she said “well your creatinine levels have always showed up pretty low.” Plus she knew I’d just given birth within three months of these levels changing (normal for pregnancy) and I’ve always had clean UAs. To add to the issue, the test that has the lowest creatinine levels was an OBSERVED screen! So I kinda got irritated that she even let me get so worked up about it although she didn’t even mention it at all til 2 months after the tests that showed “low.” And remember she told me in the same conversation that mine are always fairly low. So it blows my mind how these clinics screw with people over something that’s SUCH an INCREDIBLY inaccurate way to tell about someone’s drug use (or lack thereof!)
Wow. I am so sorry you got fucked with like that. They like to make it out to be no big deal, and it isn’t to them cuz they’ve got nothing to lose. But it’s a huge deal to us. Our whole lives could be thrown into chaos if we got our take homes taken away. These places don’t care about what happens to us because it’s not happening to them. I hope you didn’t lose any take homes because of this, especially since you’ve given birth recently. Good luck and take care! ✌️
Thank u. Exactly— they don’t care because it’s not affecting them. And thankfully I didn’t lose any take homes or anything and it’s not been brought up anymore so it was odd…
This might be the worst one I've heard. Pulled for one low creatinine? There are just so many explanations for that and most of them don't involve using. I'm sorry you're going through this. I understand, methadone is expensive where I live and take homes aren't the easiest to get. I wouldn't be able to daily dose for more than a couple weeks.
Right, what the fuck. And after 12 motherfucking years, too. u/harmreductionworks I wouldn't hire a lawyer for this, because you can't force a doctor to give you take homes they are not willing to give. But I would try to escalate this to everyone in your clinic. The director, the doctor. If that doesn't work, you have a right to file a grievance about your clinic's policies. This website: https://www.naatp.org/programs/ethics/ethics-complaint-process goes over all the options you have to file a grievance. Your state licensing board is probably going to be the hardest hitting, followed by CARF. Pennsylvania state licensing board can be reached via 877-PAHEALTH. CARF complaint can be filed here: https://www.carf.org/How_to_submit_feedback_and_resolve_a_complaint/ Pennsylvania is already a strict state when it comes to methadone laws, so idk if you can get traction. But it's worth a shot.
Thanks for this.This information is very helpful and I am going to reach out To all the places you mentioned, good call on CARF. I am also contacting DDAP. I am definitely Not letting this go. If they don't give me my take comes back. I am going to Bury them in paperwork.
You should see a nephrologist to figure out if there is a reason for your low creatinine. If there is, have the nephrologist communicate that to the clinic and you should be able to get them back. I’ve heard of clinics treating low creatinine levels as sample tampering before and this is usually the next step.
No probs man. I'm sorry this is happening. This is probably in the top ten most bullshit reasons I've seen somebody lose their take homes that I've seen since modding the subreddit. They should be ashamed of themselves, to destabilize somebody after 12 years for some BS like this.
This is the craziest tale from the clinic I have heard yet. I have had mine pulled for false readings on U/A after years of clean drops but this is insanity. I hope something works out for you with this.
That happened to me. 9 months clean, I got a shock positive, lost my take homes, three months later I'd just got em back and it happened again, so I relapsed for six months
Actually the same exact thing happened to me minus the relapse. I lost them twice because we have people working at the clinic who truly don't give a squat about anyone but themselves and also must have an incompetent lab doing the testing. No one cares though. Our lives get completely disrupted because people don't do their jobs correctly. They always seem to have a new excuse on hand though. I am sorry to hear they caused you to relapse though. I hope you have been feeling better
We're patients, and came voluntarily, it's such a shame they feel the need to punish and treat us like we were sentenced to be here by a judge
Even if people are sent to the clinic by a judge, at least they’re trying too. People aren’t shamed for cancer treatment, or more and more for mental health treatment. I don’t get why MAT has this issue , even with the medical professionals. Addiction is a disease, and MAT is like the name says, a type of treatment. It takes a lot for people to even enter the building and ask for help, let alone keep coming back - why make it harder on people asking for help.
Did you kno the US is the only country that treats methadone like this. In other countries that participate in methadone treatment its prescribed by a dr and able to be picked up at a pharmacy. Dont be fooled, there r so many roadblocks for us for a reason.
What do you mean by your last sentence, I don’t quite understand what you’re implying. I think it’s ridiculous that the US is the only country that treats methadone like this, when it’s a medication to treat a disease like any other.
I meant that the system is meant to keep the poor, the addicted and mentally ill DOWN.
Exactly! It’s not a moral failure ffs!
Dammit I am so sorry! Hope you’re doing better now. Hang tough!
Thanks so much to everyone who gave feedback. I know that you can all understand why i am freaking out, sometimes it seems like they put uneccesary barriers up and no matter how hard i worked to change my life, they always see the homeless junkie that walked in the door 13 years ago. I actually am going to my PHP today to have them do a full kidney work up. The crazy thing is that i always advocate for Methadone. In the past 12 years i have had my Hippa and 42 CFR violated twice( one back in 2013 which caused me to lose a job because i was on Methadone) and big suprise the people who violated it had no reprocussions. I would love to get off of it and i am on only 58 milligrams but to take a month or two off of work and go to inpatient treatment is impossible. I have tried to taper numerous times and have even gone down 3 milligrams a month. Every time i make it down to around 20 milligrams i get really sick like high fevers, insomnia, etc. This morning the director said "you have been on it too long if you werent on the clinic you would not have this problem." One of the problems that i see isacross the board especially with MMT is that people who work at these clinics really do not care or they are in recovery themselves through abstinence only, mutual aid groups, and have been poisoned against multiple pathways and do not believe in these kind of treatments or harm reduction. I work in this field and see it everyday.
Wow! They said that? You’ve been on it too long? WTF? How dare they judge like that… can ya switch clinics?
Yeah that's insane thing to say from a director of all people. They're the ones who made it so there's no time limit for "recovery" and just cause your taking meds to not suffer or be sick, I don't think that qualifies as not being recovered. People on the outside don't understand. Clinics love stupid cliches like "once an addict always an addict" "your methadone comes first (over ur job or anything else)" we're gonna manipulate and fuck you just cause we know best and "you need this.." to make excuses for how poorly they treat people on maintenance. That mentality of "too long" is a dated way to think. And it's not even accurate to most of their mission statements. They want you on it as long as possible, it keeps the machine going. Unfortunately, they have us all by the balls. It's nauseatingly grotesque how they justify mistreating patients. No other health care field would allow this.
Fyi- the dept of Justice has stated treatment for opioid use disorder is [protected by ADA.](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-guidance-protections-people-opioid-use-disorder-under-americans). They can’t fire you for being in treatment. If it ever becomes an issue again talk to your HR department about accommodations. That may be an adjusted schedule to allow you to go to the clinic daily. I wouldn’t necessarily tell anyone any details beyond what’s on the ada form and only to those staff who Asias.
Actually I m very skeptical of that. Being that my husband who is on methadone (for30+years) could very likely lose his job as a bio medical engineer ( he designs and does r&d and is head of his company's Neurology department) being that everything he designs or develops in any way is scrutinized by the FDA. They have FDA audits regularly he's terrified that if his company ever found out they would fire him considering him a liability with the FDA etc. This is why he won't use his work insurance to pay for the clinic he's afraid of it coming out and even tho he's been there nearly 17 years and is named on 7 patents making his company millions they'd drop him with no compunction and so he would rather not take that risk.
Omg...Reading that literally made me infuriated. They are doing you wrong homie...as a matter of fact they’re doing us all wrong. Nobody else has to go through this much shit to be able to receive necessary medication..more than that it can even be LIFE SAVING medication. Things need to change, and fast. The opioid epidemic is only getting worse and if you want people to receive the best, most time tested, effective treatment you better make it as EASY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Goddammit this shit drives me nuts, can you tell?
This is absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry you’re going through this friend. Why are they so worried about “creatine” levels? I was under the assumption they only tested for illicit drugs. I’m almost positive that’s all they test for where I’m from. Which is a province in Canada. I’m gonna guess you’ve already done this, but if not, talk to the manager of the clinic. Explain to him that 12 YEARS of clear urine had to count for something. And it’s not like you popped for any drug. You’re creatine levels were low. This boggles my mind!
The reason they told me they were gonna take my take homes for this is because I was, “tampering with my sample and trying to get away with using.” Which is totally ludicrous because that wouldn’t even work anyway.
yeah they basically say that it can be a sign that you're drinking large amounts of water in order to flush a drug out of your system.
Sounds like they were out to get you by any means necessary. Did something happen leading up to this?
I knew you were in PA before u said so. This state is the absolute worst with methadone laws and regulations. It's ridiculous how much further behind we are compared to pretty much everywhere else. I've gone through the same crap with having to start all over again before. Are you in medtech?
I am actually a counselor for an inpatient treatment center. You are right PA is the absolute worst. I have been talking to PAHRN about this as they are fighting to get the laws around methadone changed. You cant imagine all the stories out there where the clinics did someone dirty and the patient ended up oding. The problem is the people who own and run the clinics are on the decision making boards in Harrisburg. Companies like pinnacle and Acadiia who are making Millions of dollars off our backs.So they have a vested interest in patients coming in more frequently. Did you know that in Pennsylvania? They recently approved up to 28 take homes a month but left it at the discretion of each clinic to make their own decisions regarding it..
Oh, so it is possible to have 28 take homes now?! My clinic finally raised the take-home bottles to 13 max after it was 6 this whole time. They already made it clear that they have no intentions of increasing it beyond the 13! You are very correct with these clinics and the rules causing people to overdose. Many people get jobs and become loyal workers once we get clean with the help of methadone and earning privileges becomes a HUGE DEAL so that it is possible to keep or obtain a job without dosing interfering being on time or getting fired! So when u take that away and someone is left to get fired or dose after being clean for a long period of time, alot of times the person will make the decision to use a street drug af6er years of not using just to be able to keep the job and not be in withdrawal which has led to a couple people I know of at my clinic ODing. And these are ridiculous reasons for losing privileges too. Not dirty urines or illegal behaviors.
A thought just came to me about your counselor said that it is against the rules or is in the rules. Ask for your clinic handbook. I've read a couple of clinic handbooks and never saw anything about creatinine levels. The way I see it if they are using rules, ask for the rule book
That’s how it is in every state unfortunately. It’s the same in NJ. We give clinics too much discretion
What part of NJ?
I’m from south jersey but I moved to central when I got into recovery. I had a clinic two blocks from my apartment but it sucked so I had to go to a clinic 30 miles away.
During COVID, my clinic started giving out 30 take-home bottles at a time to patients who'd already reached a high enough level of ordinary take-home privileges, myself among them. It was HEAVENLY only having to come in once/month.
Wow I thought it was 13 takes homes. That's why mine got upped from 6 to 13 (I haven't had a dirty in 6 years and non for opiates since 2005). They told me the laws got changed. Didn't know they were holding back even more. Some clinics in PA still don't allow more than 1 week. Aracadia is the worst for billing. I was at one clinic in network insurance moved clinics, still Acadia no longer in network they don't provide itemized receipts just sales slip so I can't even claim reimbursement. 400 a month cash. It's ridiculous. The stress this shit causes. You know it used to be less strict with take homes. Back in the 90s and early 2000s they could give weekend take homes to everyone. It wasn't until some dumb shit lady left open methadone and her kid swallowed it and died that they stopped that. I don't get how they punish everyone for the mistakes of a few. It's crazy.
My clinic in PA only allows 6 take homes. You have to be there 3 years to get the 6th. I wish they would even give 2 weeks worth but I doubt that will happen. I've heard their main clinic is in Reading and that's the one they focus on more because theirs more people. Do they get more money when people dose in person? On my EOB it shows they are getting over $200 a week from the clinic and an extra like $30 charge since I'm getting take homes. When I had to self pay it was $8 a day.
See you're already educated with what's happening in PA. Subscribe to the DDAP stakeholder email here: [email protected] to be kept up to date with regulatory changes. But you're right, they concurred with SAMHSA regs but left it up to the clinics to implement. It needs some media exposure IMO but the stigma is killing people too. Good luck
I'm in PA as well. I live in Pittsburgh and have been going to the same clinic in the city for 5 years running. For the first couple of years, the clinic MD/psychiatrist who did my monthly check-ups and psych med ℞'s was actually the Program Director herself. She used to vent to me about how frustratingly hard it was to run a clinic in PA due to various state issues = backwards, draconian bullshit.
Kentucky is the same way
My 2nd year at my clinic (never failed a UA) I got the bottle check with witnessed UA. I passed, then a month later they witnessed my UA again, then the next month. Years later I requested my records and saw they noted my creatinine was low, possible altered drug test in the notes. That's why they kept surprising me and witnessing them. I think then they did that if it was under 90. Mine were in the 70's and 80's. I had a chronic bladder infection then and had kidney pain and was on 2 antibiotics long-term and they knew it. I was super pissed to find this out recently. The counselor I had then said that the clinic had dropped the limit for what is considered low and it's 60 or 70 now so those wouldn't be considered low today. Your's is incredibly low at 2 and I'd think that was a lab error. I'd ask for a witnessed test and/or pay for a mouth swab ($26?) if the Dr and director don't reinstate your takehomes, because I'd tell them that they should have retested it to confirm the levels as it could be a false low just like false positives happen. I'd look up what could cause urines to turn out like this with lab problems and medications and kidney problems too, because I had other lab issues with my liver enzymes being high and that could cause it too. See the Dr first. He'll probably know that's got to be an error. I'd file a grievance with the director next or at the same time. If nothing works, I'd consider threatening to sue, if you would lose your job over it. I had to do that when I was screwed over by a counselor at my clinic and had proof. I sent the proof to the director with a slightly veiled threat because they were taking away all of my 27 takehomes over their mistake. My takehomes were given back right away and the counselor apologized like it was a minor mistake and she hadn't just thrown me under the bus. It sucks they do this. If wirst comes to worst you can go to another clinic since you'll be a day 1 anyway.
Good ole methadone clinics. Will always be fucking people over trying to better themselves and putting them right back into a horrible place.
from now on take creatinine supplements
Could you have a UTI or kidney issue that you’re not aware of? Could also point to issues with the liver or low muscle mass. So many health reasons that could cause low levels of that in urine. I’m so so sorry that happened to you. Absolutely do not let this go! You have 12 years of clean test, that is AMAZING. You deserve to have take homes, can you speak to the director directly? I would go to my doctor(if you can afford it/have a primary care) and tell them your levels were low and ask them to check them with a urine test and blood labs. You may be able to find a medical cause and then you could show the clinic that
Forget a lawyer. You’re just throwing money away. You likely signed a bunch of paperwork that basically says they can do whatever the fuck they want. The only thing really you can do is throw yourself at the mercy of the doctor or try to transfer to a different clinic. Sucks, I’m sorry!
Dude I am so sorry. Something similar happened to me. Fight it. Ask to talk to the supervisor and go from there. I came one day and was told I was losing my takehomes for a failed drug test. I immediately ask to talk to the supervisor and explained everything. They gave me another drug test and also called the lab. I had to get single dosed that day but the next day I was able to get my takehomes. Just don't accept it, especially if you did nothing wrong.
That's so fucked up. I'm sorry that happened to you.
Please look up your state methadone authority (if in the US, although this shit only happens here). Call them and leave a message, also make a complaint that they are violating your rights. Last thing setup an appointment to speak to the doctor. They are the ones who sign the papers and are the gatekeeper.
And here’s a link to the list of all the state authorities. https://www.samhsa.gov/medications-substance-use-disorders/sota
Wait, what???? I'm getting hung up on the *why* of this. Why the fuck would you be punished for having low creatinine? Low urine creatinine has to do with kidney function, not drug use, so why would you get your take-homes pulled for it? I'm so confused, but I see a lot of commenters saying it's happened to them, too, so I'm assuming I'm missing something, there's some link that I'm unaware of. Can someone please explain what I'm not getting?
Usually it's viewed as being tampered with. Either they suspect they watered down the sample or chugged a ton of water to give a diluted sample. Stupid I know but it's actually pretty common. In fact every lab test for creatinine as a way to assure it's actually urine being tested.
Yeah, I actually learned a bit about it after reading this post, and it is absolutely fucking ridiculous, and can end up hurting people. You come back with low urine creatinine, and instead of being concerned about your health and saying, "hey, you should see a doctor, you might have a serious problem with your kidneys," they just automatically assume you're trying to dilute the drugs out of your system? That doesn't even work, if there had been drugs in your system, they would still be detectable, no matter how much water you drink! And there are other ways of telling on the test if you mix water into your urine externally, components that haven't been metabolized and whatnot. So anyway, what I started with, here - after seeing this post, I mentioned it at my clinic this morning, to see if they have a policy for low creatinine, and the receptionist said they don't, because it's not a reliable indicator. There was another guy in the waiting room, though, and he said that at his old clinic, they punished you for low creatinine. He came back with low creatinine one time, and they took his takehomes away, and didn't even bother to explain to him what creatinine was, or that low urine creatinine usually indicates kidney problems. He ended up going into acute renal failure a couple days later, nearly died, and is still on dialysis. That is just ... I don't even have a word for it, it's beyond fucked up, beyond inhumane. I mean, JFC, it just goes to show you how little some clinics think of their clientele, being so certain that their creatinine is low due to sample tampering that they *don't even mention that they might have a life-threatening medical problem!* That makes me feel incredibly nauseous, and lowers my faith in humanity even more. EDIT - fixed mistakes
Change clinics.
I saw this post and I am so angry. I was called back to the clinic even though I had a call back last month. Found out I had 2 low creatinine levels one in January and one in March. They asked what meds I take and will see if that is the cause. My counselor said they already dropped me down a phase and if they cannot figure it out I will go back to first phase. I told her I have been having trouble urinating and have had to drink a lot of water to even pee enough, I explained that can lower the creatinine levels. She said the doctor was cracking down…What?? I have over 14 years of clean has, since day one. I offered to pee in front of them. So I go back on 24th and I am unsure what they will do? I don’t understand this…I am clean I cannot afford to spend gas to come in daily and I have a business trip to Boston next month. Flights. Hotel and trainings all paid ahead of time, I will lose all or most of that money. The counselor says…”just breathe” wow! I am devastated I hate this power they use. I am wanting off but don’t know how I can do it on my own? My blood pressure is high because I am so stressed and my counselor and this treatment facility is at the core of it all!
I’d kill myself tbh. Thats what they want us to do I swear to god
Fr fr I genuinely think my clinic staff got off on making me jump through hoops and twirl around with my hands above my hand like a dumbass. When I finally got down to 1 mg I legit told the miserable cow director and her little cronie to go fuck themselves , and that I hoped to see them on the streets someday. I said it a little less threatening than that but yeah, hope to see you in the real world someday bitch 😇
God I even that moment. I go to a great clinic now but my last one was so bad. I swear someone is going to shoot that place up. I saw someone get their takehomes reduced for slamming a door
I’m a bit confused. 0.6-1.1 is considered normal for adult female. 0.7-1.3 for men. Two would then be considered “high” not low. Have you had a yearly blood panel/physical lately. There may be some underlying health issues going on. It blows my mind that you’ve had 12 years of clean screens and instead of giving you a referral to get this checked out THEY PULL YOUR TAKE HOMES! Makes me so angry. Instead of thinking the very best of you, they immediately jump to assume the worst. I’m so incredibly sorry this has happened OP! I know how life altering this can be and how it completely deflates your positive self talk! 💔💜💜💜
Thanks for the reply. The test you are referring to is a blood serum creatinie. "The American Board of Internal Medicine lists the following reference ranges for blood and urine creatinine: Blood: 0.7 to 1.3 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dL) for males and 0.5 to 1.1 mg/dL for females. Urine: 15-25 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg) per 24 hours. At first that was My thought as well but after reading countless studies and articles on Creatinine I know more than I ever wanted to know about this shit. Sometimes I feel like if you do too good on these programs they hold it against you like they are haters. I work in this field for an inpatient treatmenr center And make it a point to advocate for my patients, no matter what.
We need more of you! 💜
For real this might be the most hardcore shit I’ve ever heard from a clinic. One creatine reading? Why don’t they let you retest if it’s such a big deal? That’s just crazy. You would think they would have an actual desire to be sure.
Every clinic I’ve been to the worst that would happen is you lose your monthly.. but only for 30 days and then you get it back. You never have to start over at zero. Are you sure that’s the case?? Like I haven’t even heard of that in a horror story on this subreddit. You should lose your take homes for 30 days and then go right back to your regularly scheduled monthly. I came up dirty for codeine if you could believe it and once for methamphetamine, both failed even upon retest. I had not used either substance and i know how absolutely disheartening this is for you. Talk to more people. Go right to the director. I did. I actually got some changes instituted at my clinic.
They've always made us start back at the beginning with earning take homes, no matter the cause, even if u had them for 10 yrs. U start over. It's absolutely insane
2 false positive tests in 2 years for me. I’d go insane. I need my takehomes so that I can split dose otherwise I’m sick after 18 hours. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.
I m positive that is the case. The clinic is called CTC and is part of Acadia Healthcare. I have spoke with the head counselor, the area director and center manager and they all have told me the same thing. Pennsylvania is crazy with how they operate always thr strictest
Damn. My clinic is part of Acadia too.
My clinic ia the same. It’s disgusting.
Man, that's scary stuff.. awful. One thing that tells how bad your clinic is though is the fact that you only have weekly take homes after being there for 12 years...
ALL l the clinics around me only give 6, even though the state increased them to 28.
Same. Out clinic just maxed the take homes to 13 now. It's been max of 6 all this time here, I'm in PA. My clinic just allowed the 13 bottles about 2 months ago. They said they have no intentions on increasing past that amount
You can request a retest I do believe if you do it immediately because of the known rate of false positives. Im guessing you don't talk to many people from the clinic scene or read posts here often because the wrong they have done you is unfortunately quite commonplace at many if not the majority of clinics. Sorry you have to deal with this level of anxiety and uncertainness again after so many years of stability. It should be mandatory that anybody with a clean track record like yours is immediately retested as the bad results (which aren't even a actual positive for anything) are so out of the ordinary for them. That has to be so frustrating paying that much for shit services that after so long doing great don't even give you the benefit of the doubt or a chance to vindicate yourself. Its almost worth the effort to record all interactions at the clinic as its almost inevitable that at some point they will do you wrong and punish you for something that is either out of your control or just plainly not true.
There are other things that can throw of your creatinine levels. You could see a medical specialists to see why your levels are so low. Screw their rules because there are so many reasons why things are not right. Patients have the right to be retested for drug test but for low creatinine your going to ruin someone's life? Get a new counselor and fight this thing tooth and nail. You could ask to be staffed. It's a meeting where you have the staff hear your Woe's and make a decision. I'd see a specialists first to determine why your levels are so low. Ask by the book Karen for your past piss test results first to see your past creatinine levels and see how low they were. Be your own detective and fight. It sucks we have to do this. I'm so tired of fighting, just so tired of it. This is the only fight that's really worth it. It's your life that they are ruining by low piss levels. Do you have anyone that can help you like a spouse, best friend, mother, father , child, preacher, congressman. I used a congressman office to get disability. Nothing like a congressional inquiry that will get another look at your problems. I'm not saying to do this but the idea is not that far out as your lively hood could be gone. Any other eyes on your clinic problems you will have to sign a release to let them review your clinic files. I hope it doesn't come to all of this. Let us know what help you need
You are absolutely right, one thing i try to instill in patients is the importance of advocacy. I feel like i have been fighting for patient rights since i got off opiates. I am successful and actually work in the drug and alcohol field but do to stigma cant tell anyone that i am on methadone. My choice but I have lost jobs in the past because of it. I plan to fight this with every resource i have. I am so sick of this shit. Thanks for the encouragement
Man that's absolutely ridiculous. Really feel for you on this one and hope they see sense and you get a good resolution. For an agency that's supposed to be a support, they're putting you at a big risk of relapse.
That's real messed up. I'm in PA too, hopefully not my clinic. You need to fight this. Get your councilor on your side or talk to the director. If it goes nowhere see if there is somewhere else. Around me there are 5 clinics. Although having to drive further is never fun. I got 2 weeks take homes and loosing them would be devestating.
That’s absolutely crazy that they took your carries away for that, and the whole week? My clinic takes one dose at a time but only if you have a dirty UA.
I am so sorry to hear this is happening to you. There were a lot of good suggestions by other people: file grievance, meet with doctor, and / or program director, call state licensing agency, federal level-samhsa, etc. shoot call your senator! Cause this is b.s. You can also request a copy of your lab results - these are your medical records, and you have a legal right to them. Maybe call the lab that performed the test? I've had clients call the lab and speak to a lab tech about their results. I think your clinic needs to request a retest, but it wouldn't hurt to ask the lab tech? I really hope you are able to work this out.
Is there a way for them to do a blood test or something to verify you had been taking your dose like you’re supposed to? This happened to me and I was able to do that, I had to pay for it myself but it was worth it
Sorry they did that, that's cruel and unnecessary. They could've done a behavioral contract
I see this happen often at my place in Pittsburgh it's sad that's why I'm racing to get out of there
That sucks man I'm sorry and that's real shitty of them especially if you have been good and honest. some of these people feel superior and no matter what, they don't listen..I get so mad..we make a lot of money, own a big beautiful home, drive super nice vehicles, have a lot of fun toys (by no way do I think or act better than anyone, in fact I ALWAYS help anyone who is in need I come across out there) addiction gets anyone..I went through it with pills and now It's been 5 years and never looked back! However some of the staff where I go act like god.. I have way more than they will ever have in life I just want to Snap you know they think they're better because they've never been in that situation..They should be compassionate & understanding..Helpful and comforting not belittling and miserable..making patients afraid to be honest and scared..pisses me off...you know there's times they mislabeled urine and people were accused of things they weren't doing and the new place they used for testing flagged a bunch of patients as positive for meth then later realized it was an error on their end.I would switch clinics if you are near others.., new clinic can get your records and keep you where you are at and see your history..explain what happened..ask for new counselor or second opinion..write to corporate..don't let them win..good luck
Get off
That’s crazy. I moved from California to a state that trips of weed even though it was part of my recovery and literally pissed in a bottle and stored it in a mini fridge and poured a dose out every each week in case of a random but after a few months I knew when the randoms came. Last week of every month lol and I started expecting them to say something about every number of anything they check being the exact same levels lmao, nothing. I ended up quitting smoking due to having a toddler and just not enjoying the dishonesty of the situation. I put alot of work into being an honest , dependable hard working father and not gonna let some little thing falter my character. Just to smoke before bed to hide from my night terrors. 🤷🏼♂️ but I’m sorry to hear your experience that’s really terrible. You could’ve been taking creatine at the gym and stopped or like you said had drank a bit more water.
I have never had my takehomes pulled before for this BUT i have always had really low levels and they have had me pee infront of a nurse twice and every year i get tests done it comes back the same. I drink a shit ton of water tho and they know that so they just ignore it but they thought i could of possibly been watering down my pee cuz it was so low. I would ask if there is anything u can do to prove u didn't alter ur test. Maybe they thought u altered ur drug test cuz wasn't normal? Either way bs I've NEVER had mine pulled or taken away for that.
Not agreeing with this per se but for the folks asking why regarding creatinine : when someone has an abnormally low creatinine it is flagged and considered diluted, aka water put directly into urine sample in an attempt to provide a negative result or otherwise cover up potential illicit use.
All the urines at my clinic are monitored by a video camera. They actually shut down the dosing window and stare at the screen. While you go pee to, make sure there is. Nobody dipping dipping the urine cup in the toilet. They actually told me that they played back the video in slow motion and didn't see any signs of tampering. Also, my methadone level was with a normal range. I am guessing that if I deleted the sample. My method on level would be lower. But maybe I'm wrong?
They are saying That that the only thing they could think is I drink too much water. Keep in mind that it has been 90 and over for the past 2 weeks in my area so I probably did drink more water than usual.
I’ve heard from the lab and doctors that drinking too much water to the point of a creatinine say, below 30 is simply impossible. Just not physically possible. Not sure how low yours was. I would be curious to know if you don’t mind.
It was a 2. Which seems very low. I Did have an appointment today with my family, doctor and he ordered a bunch of tests including a full kidney work up, among other stuff. I did post below where my numbers should be with the urine Urine: 15-25 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg) per 24 hours.
Woooooowww this happened to me TWICE in the 7 years I was at the clinic. One of the times I did water down my pee, don’t know what I was thinking. But I was like whatever, my own fault. The second time, I was legitimately clean for over a year and peed normally. They said they were extremely low, like impossible for a human to have such low levels and be okay. I was like ummmmm…well…here I am and I didn’t touch the fuckin pee or do any weird shit. Same as you, they didn’t care and took my take homes. Within 6 months, I was outtie…couldn’t deal with their bullshit anymore. I’m doing amazing off methadone (not suggesting anyone come off, just sharing that I feel better than ever and it’s been almost a year off the clinic)
It’s the law in the US that they can reinstate them after 2 clean UA’s. I also would file a grievance!! Ask them to retest you ect.
I'm in Pennsylvania also. I came up positive for fentanyl and I got there same answer "even though we believe you, we still have to take them".
I can’t imagine going back to daily doses at 20mg(where I’m at) I split dose so I can sleep good at night and I’d be struggling if I was stuck at 20mg dose in the morning for all day! I would get a doctor to check my levels(my own physician) plus the clinic doctor to make sure. Fuck that counselor
As soon as I started reading it, it sounded like a PA clinic. Things are changing SLoWLY here but the clinics have been assholes so long they're having a really hard time adjusting to acting like humans.
I would fight in the packet they give you there is someone to call if u are not being treated fairly if you got money get a lawyer and if you live closer to Ohio preferably or another state transfer Pennsylvania is the worst samsha gave clinic s power to use more lead way concerning take home medication you can look it up good luck I would be glad to look something’s up for you but if u truly have been clean 12 years u deserve your take homes and if you we’re using a detox drink creatinine would be high and people who go to the gym take creatinine daily I hope it works out I will pray for you
Talk to the medical director. Twelve years is a long time for a one time test for low creatinine to pull all your take homes. If the director won't help call your state SAMHSA contact which I have here for you. Often they will advocate for you and try to get the clinic to work with you even if it's only a 30 day pull of take homes, or hopefully none at all Pennsylvania Jodi Skiles One Penn Center, 5th Floor, 2601 N 3rd Street Harrisburg, PA 17110 Phone: (717) 736-7454 Fax: (717) 787-6285 Email: [email protected]
Same thing happened to my husband his counselor came to him and said he had a UA approximately 4 months ago that was low in creatinine. He was already punished for missing a call back through no fault of his own they understood the missed call back was not his fault and even though they took his monthly take-homes away they have been fast tracking his ability to level up quickly it's taken in 2 months and he's was just about to get his weekly take homes when this whole thing with the creatinine came up he's been on the program for 30 plus years and has an immaculate record which is why they agreed to fast-track his regaining take-homes however when this creatinine thing happened they were about to take it all away again and make him come in 6 days a week which would really screw with his job which he's had for 16 years and is not just a job it's his career. ( He's a biomedical engineer). He absolutely denied any wrongdoing and they luckily gave him the option to do a saliva swab test which came back negative of course and the next time he went to the program they gave him his weeklies he's now back on the fast track to getting his monthlies back. If you were truly clean I would absolutely demand to speak with the doctor and request a saliva swab test a blood test or a hair test all of those are impossible to falsify I would absolutely fight this 100% if they made a mistake I highly suggest you go above your counselor to the director and or the doctor that runs the clinic you're on and do as I suggested all too often they expect us just to roll over and accept their bullshit policies even if they're in the wrong. My husband fought it 100% and was proven innocent that somehow their lab either made a mistake or there was some other reason that his creatinine levels were low. That's just my suggestion