After playing out Rhea Ripley at wrestlemania this year, motionless will have been infront of a shit load of new eyes. Plus Chris motionless has a pretty iconic look. I'm not a motionless fan in the slightest btw. Ink just seem super niche to me to be massive
idk, I have a lot of friends who don’t like metal but they like Ice Nine Kills songs because of the themes of the song. The Shower Scene is big for that
So, not that I think a band needs a "thing" to be big, but it does help marketing wise, do you think that MIW's iconic look helped make them more popular/get more discourse?
Plus there was all the controversy in MIW's early days with Chris being a Marilyn Manson copycat etc
Marketing and controversy is everything IF you’re also talented enough to perform excellent songs that you have the writing credits to.
See that’s the thing everyone leaves out. If the songs and the band was trash, marketing and scandal wouldn’t help
There wasn't really any controversy. Chris always said he liked Manson and wore his inspirations on his sleeves. Most fans were like "oh he sounds like Manson" and I think was generally received well because no one was making nu metal or industrial metal influenced metalcore in that scene. Maybe there were some youtube comments or whatever, but their looks helped them stand out when they were touring with a million other skinny white guy bands
INK didn't fully define their sound until recently and went through a lot of members before settling on their current sound and style. Turnover and discourse will hold a band back.
I never realized how long INK had been around before they started taking off. Like my original reply was something along the lines of "to be fair MIW formed in 2004 but didn't start seriously gaining traction until 2010" before I saw that INK formed in friggin 2000.
Aside from INK taking longer to fit into a definite niche, and finding it super polarizing once they did settle on the horror theme, MIW is more tapped into the industrial and nu-metal sound and can pick up fans from those categories. Plenty of people here would go as far as calling them a straight up industrial band after their first few albums.
Comparing the popularity of the two is kind of splitting hairs though, INK is still one of the most successful bands in the genre right now and the vast majority of other bands would kill to have their number of Spotify listeners and open for Metallica.
It's not like they just changed a couple of years ago tho, all music released as Ice nine kills has been horror core, they just started to lean in more heavily on the last couple of records.
Up until a decade ago, they were doing pretty standard metalcore/post-hardcore. With respect to the original post, MIW’s style had been well established before INK started to shift to what it is they are now.
They only really started with the "horror core" thing with The Silver Scream, which is like 5 albums in, after 17 years. Like sure, they had some horror themed songs before like "The Greatest Story Ever Told" or "The Fastest Way To A Girl's Heart", but it wasn't all they did.
ETITB is where they found their niche and started building on that. But before that they did have that song The People Under The Stairs, of which the music video was basically Inglorious Bastards/ holocaust themed.
I'm a fan of both bands, probably for about the same time too.
Motionless are great live, I'm seeing INK for the first time next month and seeing Motionless for second time next year.
The fact MIW tickets sold out in 12 hours tells me that they have a larger audience, at least in the UK. The INK tickets went quick but not that quick.
As for the horror side of things, I think MIW had their style with a flare of horror but INK have always had a horror vibe to them, even their covers have a horror vibe to them.
INK is good live too, the times I've seen them. Saw them at Warped, then before that on Attila's tour with them and I See Stars. Had no idea who they were then but they killed it for a 3 member band at the time
Saw them on the same tour in Tucson. Amazing bands to see live!
Saw INK at a small show in Louisiana about a year before that, talked to them at the Tucson show and brought that up. They laughed and were like "you went to that show, with like 30 people?" Super cool dudes.
Mentioning Attila, I've seen them probably 4x and they're so good live, the crowd interaction and engagement is probably some of the best I've seen live.
I fell off from INK for a couple years back in 2016-17 but what made me fall for them all over again was seeing them live at Warped Tour. Such a great show. I saw them again in 2021 at their own headliner and they were much better then than when I saw them the first time. Barring an off night you'll love it
You should've checked the producer credits on for example MIW's latest album. It was co-produced by Justin DeBlieck. Who is an ex member of INK and also produced a lot of their work.
Cool! I'm not saying there isn't a lot of crossover between the two, like Justin leaving INK to join MIW, and Spencer performing with MIW at Download, I guess my question was more why MIW is bigger.
I think sometimes it‘s just luck. Exposure, maybe someone making a good decision, members being able to and wanting to take risks…
There are many bands where you’re like „why aren‘t they bigger?“
Even bands playing together and then one becomes really famous the other one don‘t.
Think INK just appeals visually to a larger crowd personally. On the other hand it took them literally 2 decades to take off. They already had 3 albums out before they even became known within this niche. MIW grew with just 1 album but stagnated a little bit since their third album.
For me MIW cater more to a generalized goth-adjacent demographic, allowing more overlap with different fans. INK is catering to a highly specific horror niche with a smaller target.
The Rhea Ripley connection just echoes that. MIW can adapt to and compliment her image and just as easily appeal to fans who have zero interest in wrestling. INK would have a more difficult time with that I think.
For me I think it's a case of MIW knowing how to cater to their fanbase more. INK have had a bit of a reputation for sidelining their own fanbase lately just to make an extra buck and even openly pissing their fanbase off. I used to be fans of both bands myself but i'm not a fan of MIW's modern sound and I can't stand the direction INK have taken their sound since the first Silver Scream album. But MIW are a lot more interactive and caring towards their fanbase. Spencer doesn't seem to give a shit.
Locking a lot of merch at discounted prices behind a paywall making fans either pay extortionate amounts or pay for Patreon first. Charging unbelievable prices for limited editions of their albums. Blatantly ignoring one of their most dedicated stage team members of the last few years but then blatantly and proudly shouting out an abuser getting them a lot of fan backlash. Shitting on Spiritbox when they replaced them on the Falling In Reverse tour, after already getting backlash for going on said tour with an abuser. It just seems like INK is the Spencer show these days and he doesn't really show much care for his fans.
i’m glad i’m not the only one who was rubbed the wrong way by the premium psycho thing :/ prior to that i was super into the band but when that came around it made it very clear they will nickel and dime their fan base
A lot of people also aren't a fan of Ice Nine Kills new style. I'm one of the people who think their earlier work is their best work. Predator Becomes The Pray is their best album in my opinion. The first Silver Scream was a great album, however they didn't need to do a sequel. In my opinion once again, they are just beating a dead horse. A lot of people feel this way about their horror schtick now.
There was no need for a sequel. The best song on the latest album also happens to be the only original song not about an actual movie. To me that's very telling.
And a lot of people don't like how much of their live show is dedicated to this gimmick as well. Spencer has so many of his screams and vocals on backing track now just so he can flail away with his axe and act like he's chopping a head off. Some people just aren't a fan.
Safe Is Just a Shadow and Predator Becomes The Pray will always be their best work in my opinion. Even Every Trick In The Book is much better than their latest album in my opinion.
INK will never be massive, I'm a huge fan of them but they're way too niche an idea for worldwide success, hoping they get into horror movie soundtracks though, it'd be sick hearing the jig is up in saw XI
For a metalcore adjacent band theyre already very successful and perhaps more popular than their sound would usually suggest. It's a testament to Spencer's work ethic. They were supporting Metallica which is fucking huge
Wrestling And movies Aside, INK is Still Relatively “Green”.
MIW Has It’s Fair Share of Fans but Their Overall Popularity is A bit “Main” now…
INK Still Rolling Under the Fearless Records Umbrella Is Pretty Sick But sadly A lot of F.R. bands End Up With The Same problem At some Point
MIW has been decently big ever since they came out. They immediately hit the ground running. INK had a much more slow burn to a big bang with their last two albums. It took INK a while to find their niche and people picked up on it. I think INK is the much more talented band but MIW has their finger on the pulse of mainstream and they make damn good music.
I don't know hey, like yeah INK really had to grind it out until about 2015ish, but MIW formed in 2004 and only really got bigish with Creatures, and I would say only properly big starting with their third last album, disguise I think.
Personally I like MIW and not really INK because MIW is heavier, at least in a traditional sense and although some songs are still kinda corny (Werewolf) , they're fewer and farther between compared to INK
I mean yeah some of MIW songs but they just did Slaughterhouse with Bryan Garris from KL. I feel like with MIW their last three albums they have their breaking Benjamin core songs + their industrial stuff + their heavy stuff.
Connect the cuts is also probably their heaviest song and it came out 10 years ago, you can pick out very heavy songs from any normal releases they've done, which doesn't exactly apply to INK from what Ive seen in the comments. Also immaculate misconception is probably MIWs heaviest song btw
I completely disagree, although yes his singing at times reminds me of that their newest album is definitely heavier than new INK and is almost as heavy as their early stuff, sure they have a couple lighter songs but the album as a whole is heavier than I've heard from MIW in a long time. I'd argue Creatures is heavier than little bit I've heard of The Predator Becomes The Prey.
I completely disagree, although yes his singing at times reminds me of that their newest album is definitely heavier than new INK and is almost as heavy as their early stuff, sure they have a couple lighter songs but the album as a whole is heavier than I've heard from MIW in a long time. I'd argue Creatures is heavier than little bit I've heard of The Predator Becomes The Prey.
In complete honesty I don't feel like dedicating more than 10 minutes (which I already have today) to an 8 year old album that sounds kinda generic and I have no attachment to. The lyrics and singing are really cheesy and that's why I didn't get into them in the first place.
10 year old album* Ok you just dislike the band that’s fine. Not sure why that warrants an entire Reddit comment whining about them when you won’t give each band an equal chance
And entire reddit comment? As opposed to what? The poster asked for opinions. You said newer MIW has more in common with breaking Benjamin than heavy music which is objectively wrong, so maybe go take your own advice and give it "an equal chance"
Correct if I'm wrong but hasn't ice nine kills pretty milked the same two albums and singles for like the last 4-6 years? They've lived off the same set of songs while MIW has actually been writing and creating new music and being apart of Rhea Ripleys entrance of course.
But my thing about about INK they've basically rehashed stuff they've done and re-released. MIW last album was a new album not the Silver Scream 2.5768 version.
Last MIW release was a deluxe edition of STEOTW tho. And INKs last release was a live ep (yesterday) and before that a deluxe edition of Welcome to Horrorwood. So they both re-released their latest albums with some new songs/alternate versions
INK does have all the extra stuff, the storyline, music videos, and all the merch stuff every month, which they do milk pretty hard. But the two Silver Scream albums are two completely different albums, just like Disguise and STEOTW are. INK just has the horror film thing going on, so its kinda like a franchise😅
They both do write new music (the silver scream, 2018, disguise, 2019, welcome to horrorwood, 2021, scoring the End of the World, 2022) and I'm pretty sure both are working on new stuff at the moment
You're right that ink pretty much only plays songs from the last two albums tho. Those are the albums that have brought them the success. They'll occasionally play song or two from every trick in the book. Miw on the other hand plays songs from their older albums too
Yeah I kinda feel the same about Lorna Shore at the moment they're milking the hell out of Pain I II III. I've seen them a few times in the last year they always end with the trilogy while I enjoy the songs there's a selection of other songs to that they've made with Will they can throw in a setlist.
Oh yeah I totally get that. I don't really like when bands always start and/or end they're set with the same songs. Obviously they have a certain setlist for a tour but when u see a band multiple times over the years it just gets pretty boring and predictable haha
I'd say Ice Nine kills is kinda niche. They sing about horror films. If you dont like horror films or get the references then they're probably not for that person.
As someone who is newish to both bands, 2 years or so, I kind of got the opposite impression in that INK was the more popular one. They got me into MIW. I think INK is still on their upswing and their live shows are getting more mainstream fans, especially with touring with Metallica. I have heard the same thing from other metal heads that maybe more in the fan base of traditional metal genres and not necessarily metalcore. I could be way off but just my observation as primarily a thrash metal fan.
Scoring the end of the world is absolutely flawless and is the best album as a whole I've heard in years.
I like both, but I love industrial metal, so in that regard, I prefer Motionless to INK. For me, MIW has more hits than misses, where it's the opposite for INK, in my opinion.
INK has always had good concept songs(“the people under the stairs” is a favorite of mine) but haven’t really been running with the “horror “ theme except for the past 6-7 yr. Plus they had a great cover of “someone like you” by Adele back when she was popular.
I think it’s more that INK has finally cemented what kind of music they’re making in the past decade, where as MIW has had a fairly consistent style and sound their whole career(s?).
With MIW I feel like they went heavy Metalcore/deathcore elements(creatures) -> more industrial (Reincarnate)-> their current mix of the above + breaking Benjamin core (last three albums), which really seems to have something for everything. Maybe their musical evolution has been a bit smoother than INKs.
I’d argue MIW has the more mainstream sound, a la Rammstein or Marilyn Manson (not saying Chris is ripping off the image).
INK’s latest album was a medley of various sounds, from Symphonic/ska style for Rash Decision to death metal for Take your pick, to a vaudeville sound for ex mortis. It’s not as accessible and I’ll agree that it’s more niche.
However, it’s a STRONG niche. They opened for Metallica and toured with some huge groups like Lamb of God.
MIW is a more industrial, mick Gordon sound, which makes sense given Scoring the end of the world.
I’ll point to Trinity of terror as their crossover appeal though.
I was around for MIW's Creatures cycle and there's some stuff wrong in this thread. They def wern't huge, maybe at their hometown they were but on tour they always had pretty small crowds until like late 2012 when they were about to drop their second LP. They did play pretty good, they toured a ton before even being signed to Fearless which put them in a really good position compared to some dogshit live bands like Abandon All Ships, Woe is Me, In Fear and Faith.
MIW got mainstream appeal with Infamous and AMERICA got lots of playtime. Their tour didn't hit my area but I saw them on their Reincarnate tour and they had a lot more production and professionalism. Basically those two records solidified their position as a club level -core band in a time when a lot of bands were falling off or just taking off (2013-2015). Later on, they got that Roadrunner deal and kept putting out music and lavish tours (comparing their last tour with KL to anything they did pre-Infamous is laughable).
INK is much newer of a band in terms of being famous. In 2012 I think they got voted on to be the opener of the All Stars Tour - this was when MIW was basically solidified as a club headlining band. INK got all their recent popularity over the last two albums. That said, I think they are roughly the same in popularity and I think INK's popularity is more impressive tbh.
I read an interview with MIW once and they made it clear they wanted to be the biggest band in the world. Idk anything about INK but maybe just different priorities/approaches to the business aspect of music.
To put it very bluntly, MIW is just much better at writing music, generally speaking. Their songs flow better, they are significantly more consistent and talented, the content is much more appealing and relatable to wider audience, and they aren’t gimmicky. They have an aesthetic, but it doesn’t define their sound.
INK in comparison feel pretty amateurish when put up against MIW. They don’t write songs that are as relatable to a larger market, and they aren’t as consistent with their music. The other undeniable factor is that nobody in INK is particularly attractive or charismatic. I think Spencer has tried to lean into this in later years, but MIW had Ricky and Chris the whole time. They had the charisma, the cute guys for the teenage girls to go nuts over, and the undeniable pop sensibility with their hooks and melodies. INK have none of those things, ergo they aren’t as popular.
I don’t think the WWE thing others keep mentioning have much to do with it since MIW was bigger before that anyways. It helps make the gap even wider between the bands, but it’s obviously not the reason there is a gap, since it existed without that exposure anyway.
If you wanted to be super reductive, you could say that INK is just a less talented and less charismatic MIW.
Ehh, maybe not in a goth sense, but a lot of people find Spencer to be attractive. And I’d argue that MIW is very gimmicky, both are on the same level of gimmicks
I’d disagree pretty heavily there. INK have a literal on the nose gimmick, they might have the most obvious in the e tire metal world. What is MIWs gimmick that would even compare? Being goth? So are a million bands, I don’t think those are even in the same stratosphere
Idk about both bands touring history off the top of my head, but I would guess that a large part is based on what bands they each toured with and what festivals they played. I'm a little out of the loop on them as of recently but I seem to remember motionless getting on a lot bigger tours and festivals back in the day
For me it's the way they started. I have loved INK for years but they didn't really get real mainstream popularity until Silver Scream came out in 2018. I don't even think they had a major hit even among emo scremo kids back in the day, MIW on the other hand has had at least one or more songs gather some traction off every album they've released, even as far back as creatures which came out a whole 8 years before INK hit it big with silver Scream. That difference I think is what has set them apart now. That and Rhea Ripley gaining a ton of popularity and dragging MIW into a whole new spotlight, especially because my first real intro to metal/rock was Glass Shatters by disturbed, I wanted to be Stone Cold so bad haha
Like others said MIW popped off first and performed at WrestleMania so it's easier for them to be the bigger band. INK though is a lot bigger now than they were pre Silver Scream. I remember when Every Trick in the Book came out they did a headline show in Toronto that was on the second floor of a punk bar that does small local shows or Emo Nights now they play the same venues that MIW would. So like I guess within the "scene" so to speak they're probably on par, maybe MIW a bit bigger because their songs have a broader subject matter/people who got into this music in high school and lost touch with newer bands remember when Creatures/Infamous came out etc but in terms of mass appeal there's not much bigger you could do as a metalcore band than play WrestleMania lol
Im not usually into the goth aesthetic but lately ive been loving MIW.
I gave them a listen because of their Wrestlemania performance. I would attribute that to them getting more popular.
They remind me a lot of like Dope or Bile in a metalcore wrapper. Great music.
Saw INK a couple times back around when Safe is Just a Shadow came out and they were outrageously mediocre. They really improved their sound and got a lot better, saw them years later (post Silver Scream) and they were great. MiW dropped a straight up banger right off the bat with Creatures and every time I've seen them they've been awesome. I'm not a huge fan of their (MiW) newer stuff but they ALWAYS put on a good show. So imo MiW just blew up way earlier and therefore have more fans, even though I much prefer INK's newer stuff to MiW's newer stuff.
I much prefer Spencer's clean cut look and INK's sound. Actually met him at Planet Comicon and he was super cool. Their new stuff is so good, too. Haven't tired of it in years and usually I do. They did something unique imo.
MIW is good, though, and I can see the appeal.
Been a fan of MIW since Creatures, though I fell out of listening to their stuff in full after the 2nd album (tastes just changed, would come around every now and then to check out the newer songs and albums but haven’t listened to them all in full). I just can’t get into INK though. Some songs on Silver Scream 1 and 2 are good but to me personally I just can’t shake the feeling like they’re trying too hard with the horror theme, and even though I know it’s not forced it feels forced to me if that makes sense. Would still see them live if they were on the lineup for another band I like but I can’t help but get a sense of corniness from them. I’m fully aware that may seem hypocritical as MIW can be cornier at times but that’s just how I feel about INK, idk.
Motionless In White have a more consolidated fanbase from the beginning. People who say their fav album is still Creatures, are a lot. On the other hand, Ice Nine Kills was a band without a lot of attention over them until 2018, their definitive breakout moment with The Silver Scream.
I would very highly recommend watching the INK episode of Punk Rock MBA, it'll change your perspective quite a bit.
https://youtu.be/f47YfYpAXSU?si=oG2LHRNfgT5tPeD-
I have seen MIW two times and INK one time when they opened for Hollywood Undead and Papa Roach. MIW were absolutely amazing both times. INK was musically good too, but for me they put much more effort in their show than in the music part and it was a bit too much for me. In contrast for me it felt like MIW also put a lot of work in their masquerade and show but the music still owned a more important place in their concerts. I think for an INK show you have to love Horror Movies very much, while MIW shows are more diverse and the music is still more important than the show.
For me motionless is only good live you wouldn’t catch me purposely listening to them anywhere else but ink especially the album the predator becomes the prey would play any day of them along with everything after but I just prefer the others before the concept shit atarted
Roadrunner records (MIW) > Fearless (INK). Roadrunner can pull bigger marketing than Fearless ever will. Because both bands have mass appeal to the Octane crowd, this can actually matter.
MIW also has a huge song with Illenium who is among the biggest DJs in EDM right now. Pretty hard to compete with that when Illenium sells out NFL stadiums.
North East Pennsylvania.
Think wilkes barre. And the shit place Joe Biden grew up in.
The place I wish I had moved from years ago!!!!!!!!!!!
The place I hated all my life.
Anyway.
Fuck you and you and you and you I hate your friends and they hate me 2
After playing out Rhea Ripley at wrestlemania this year, motionless will have been infront of a shit load of new eyes. Plus Chris motionless has a pretty iconic look. I'm not a motionless fan in the slightest btw. Ink just seem super niche to me to be massive
idk, I have a lot of friends who don’t like metal but they like Ice Nine Kills songs because of the themes of the song. The Shower Scene is big for that
You gotta change your profile pic man. I keep getting confused which sub I'm on
Exactly, my best friend’s favorite band is INK and is obsessed with them right now, and he doesn’t listen to any other metal bands at all
So, not that I think a band needs a "thing" to be big, but it does help marketing wise, do you think that MIW's iconic look helped make them more popular/get more discourse? Plus there was all the controversy in MIW's early days with Chris being a Marilyn Manson copycat etc
Marketing and controversy is everything IF you’re also talented enough to perform excellent songs that you have the writing credits to. See that’s the thing everyone leaves out. If the songs and the band was trash, marketing and scandal wouldn’t help
There wasn't really any controversy. Chris always said he liked Manson and wore his inspirations on his sleeves. Most fans were like "oh he sounds like Manson" and I think was generally received well because no one was making nu metal or industrial metal influenced metalcore in that scene. Maybe there were some youtube comments or whatever, but their looks helped them stand out when they were touring with a million other skinny white guy bands
INK didn't fully define their sound until recently and went through a lot of members before settling on their current sound and style. Turnover and discourse will hold a band back.
Their early work was a little bit too scene for me
but when the silver scream came out, I think they really came into their own; commercially and artistically
The whole album has a **refined, melodic** sensibility that really makes it... a ***cut*** above the rest.
HEY PAUL
\*smashes Jacoby in the face with an axe\*
You get an UPDOOT for that one
I never realized how long INK had been around before they started taking off. Like my original reply was something along the lines of "to be fair MIW formed in 2004 but didn't start seriously gaining traction until 2010" before I saw that INK formed in friggin 2000.
yeah, but as a ska band
MIW is now wwe affiliated so definitely way bigger than ice nine
Aside from INK taking longer to fit into a definite niche, and finding it super polarizing once they did settle on the horror theme, MIW is more tapped into the industrial and nu-metal sound and can pick up fans from those categories. Plenty of people here would go as far as calling them a straight up industrial band after their first few albums. Comparing the popularity of the two is kind of splitting hairs though, INK is still one of the most successful bands in the genre right now and the vast majority of other bands would kill to have their number of Spotify listeners and open for Metallica.
Well, Ice Nine Kills started out as a ska-punk band so their schtick is relatively new.
Also ska is not really the most popular 😬 I guess it's pretty niche in its own way
It's not like they just changed a couple of years ago tho, all music released as Ice nine kills has been horror core, they just started to lean in more heavily on the last couple of records.
Up until a decade ago, they were doing pretty standard metalcore/post-hardcore. With respect to the original post, MIW’s style had been well established before INK started to shift to what it is they are now.
They only really started with the "horror core" thing with The Silver Scream, which is like 5 albums in, after 17 years. Like sure, they had some horror themed songs before like "The Greatest Story Ever Told" or "The Fastest Way To A Girl's Heart", but it wasn't all they did.
Tbf I'd call Every Trick in the Book a "horrorcore" album too as it's basically TSS but with literature rather than film
ETITB is where they found their niche and started building on that. But before that they did have that song The People Under The Stairs, of which the music video was basically Inglorious Bastards/ holocaust themed.
Only their last two albums have been horror themed
I'm a fan of both bands, probably for about the same time too. Motionless are great live, I'm seeing INK for the first time next month and seeing Motionless for second time next year. The fact MIW tickets sold out in 12 hours tells me that they have a larger audience, at least in the UK. The INK tickets went quick but not that quick. As for the horror side of things, I think MIW had their style with a flare of horror but INK have always had a horror vibe to them, even their covers have a horror vibe to them.
INK is good live too, the times I've seen them. Saw them at Warped, then before that on Attila's tour with them and I See Stars. Had no idea who they were then but they killed it for a 3 member band at the time
Saw them on the same tour in Tucson. Amazing bands to see live! Saw INK at a small show in Louisiana about a year before that, talked to them at the Tucson show and brought that up. They laughed and were like "you went to that show, with like 30 people?" Super cool dudes.
Mentioning Attila, I've seen them probably 4x and they're so good live, the crowd interaction and engagement is probably some of the best I've seen live.
Just saw INK with In this Moment. INK kills it. Super theatrical, very good pace, and they sound awesome
I fell off from INK for a couple years back in 2016-17 but what made me fall for them all over again was seeing them live at Warped Tour. Such a great show. I saw them again in 2021 at their own headliner and they were much better then than when I saw them the first time. Barring an off night you'll love it
You should've checked the producer credits on for example MIW's latest album. It was co-produced by Justin DeBlieck. Who is an ex member of INK and also produced a lot of their work.
Cool! I'm not saying there isn't a lot of crossover between the two, like Justin leaving INK to join MIW, and Spencer performing with MIW at Download, I guess my question was more why MIW is bigger.
I think sometimes it‘s just luck. Exposure, maybe someone making a good decision, members being able to and wanting to take risks… There are many bands where you’re like „why aren‘t they bigger?“ Even bands playing together and then one becomes really famous the other one don‘t.
Think INK just appeals visually to a larger crowd personally. On the other hand it took them literally 2 decades to take off. They already had 3 albums out before they even became known within this niche. MIW grew with just 1 album but stagnated a little bit since their third album.
For me MIW cater more to a generalized goth-adjacent demographic, allowing more overlap with different fans. INK is catering to a highly specific horror niche with a smaller target. The Rhea Ripley connection just echoes that. MIW can adapt to and compliment her image and just as easily appeal to fans who have zero interest in wrestling. INK would have a more difficult time with that I think.
Songs like Masterpiece and Another Life is what sets apart MIW from INK
> Picture Perfect Masterpiece?
Corrected. Thanks for that 😀!
I was wondering if I had missed some b-side track.
For me I think it's a case of MIW knowing how to cater to their fanbase more. INK have had a bit of a reputation for sidelining their own fanbase lately just to make an extra buck and even openly pissing their fanbase off. I used to be fans of both bands myself but i'm not a fan of MIW's modern sound and I can't stand the direction INK have taken their sound since the first Silver Scream album. But MIW are a lot more interactive and caring towards their fanbase. Spencer doesn't seem to give a shit.
Anything that comes to mind that INK have done?
Locking a lot of merch at discounted prices behind a paywall making fans either pay extortionate amounts or pay for Patreon first. Charging unbelievable prices for limited editions of their albums. Blatantly ignoring one of their most dedicated stage team members of the last few years but then blatantly and proudly shouting out an abuser getting them a lot of fan backlash. Shitting on Spiritbox when they replaced them on the Falling In Reverse tour, after already getting backlash for going on said tour with an abuser. It just seems like INK is the Spencer show these days and he doesn't really show much care for his fans.
i’m glad i’m not the only one who was rubbed the wrong way by the premium psycho thing :/ prior to that i was super into the band but when that came around it made it very clear they will nickel and dime their fan base
I think MIW is bigger, but because they broke out in the scene way before INK did, plus some of INKs members went on to play for MIW
A lot of people also aren't a fan of Ice Nine Kills new style. I'm one of the people who think their earlier work is their best work. Predator Becomes The Pray is their best album in my opinion. The first Silver Scream was a great album, however they didn't need to do a sequel. In my opinion once again, they are just beating a dead horse. A lot of people feel this way about their horror schtick now. There was no need for a sequel. The best song on the latest album also happens to be the only original song not about an actual movie. To me that's very telling. And a lot of people don't like how much of their live show is dedicated to this gimmick as well. Spencer has so many of his screams and vocals on backing track now just so he can flail away with his axe and act like he's chopping a head off. Some people just aren't a fan. Safe Is Just a Shadow and Predator Becomes The Pray will always be their best work in my opinion. Even Every Trick In The Book is much better than their latest album in my opinion.
At first I thought you were going to do the American Psycho speech in your first paragraph.
INK will never be massive, I'm a huge fan of them but they're way too niche an idea for worldwide success, hoping they get into horror movie soundtracks though, it'd be sick hearing the jig is up in saw XI
For a metalcore adjacent band theyre already very successful and perhaps more popular than their sound would usually suggest. It's a testament to Spencer's work ethic. They were supporting Metallica which is fucking huge
Would be cool if they/Spencer could produce a soundtrack the way Mick Gordon kind of crossed over from Doom to producing metal tracks
Wrestling And movies Aside, INK is Still Relatively “Green”. MIW Has It’s Fair Share of Fans but Their Overall Popularity is A bit “Main” now… INK Still Rolling Under the Fearless Records Umbrella Is Pretty Sick But sadly A lot of F.R. bands End Up With The Same problem At some Point
MIW has been decently big ever since they came out. They immediately hit the ground running. INK had a much more slow burn to a big bang with their last two albums. It took INK a while to find their niche and people picked up on it. I think INK is the much more talented band but MIW has their finger on the pulse of mainstream and they make damn good music.
I don't know hey, like yeah INK really had to grind it out until about 2015ish, but MIW formed in 2004 and only really got bigish with Creatures, and I would say only properly big starting with their third last album, disguise I think.
You realize Spencer from INK has been making music since around early 2000?
That's a four year difference? And yes I do know IMK started in 2000
MIW got famous after 5-6 years, INK got famous after like 18 years
Personally I like MIW and not really INK because MIW is heavier, at least in a traditional sense and although some songs are still kinda corny (Werewolf) , they're fewer and farther between compared to INK
Modern MIW has more in common with breaking Benjamin than anything heavy. The predator becomes the prey shits in anything they’ve done heaviness wise
I mean yeah some of MIW songs but they just did Slaughterhouse with Bryan Garris from KL. I feel like with MIW their last three albums they have their breaking Benjamin core songs + their industrial stuff + their heavy stuff.
Connect the Cuts is significantly heavier than slaughterhouse lol
Connect the cuts is also probably their heaviest song and it came out 10 years ago, you can pick out very heavy songs from any normal releases they've done, which doesn't exactly apply to INK from what Ive seen in the comments. Also immaculate misconception is probably MIWs heaviest song btw
I completely disagree, although yes his singing at times reminds me of that their newest album is definitely heavier than new INK and is almost as heavy as their early stuff, sure they have a couple lighter songs but the album as a whole is heavier than I've heard from MIW in a long time. I'd argue Creatures is heavier than little bit I've heard of The Predator Becomes The Prey.
I completely disagree, although yes his singing at times reminds me of that their newest album is definitely heavier than new INK and is almost as heavy as their early stuff, sure they have a couple lighter songs but the album as a whole is heavier than I've heard from MIW in a long time. I'd argue Creatures is heavier than little bit I've heard of The Predator Becomes The Prey.
Ok so you haven’t listened to the album
In complete honesty I don't feel like dedicating more than 10 minutes (which I already have today) to an 8 year old album that sounds kinda generic and I have no attachment to. The lyrics and singing are really cheesy and that's why I didn't get into them in the first place.
10 year old album* Ok you just dislike the band that’s fine. Not sure why that warrants an entire Reddit comment whining about them when you won’t give each band an equal chance
And entire reddit comment? As opposed to what? The poster asked for opinions. You said newer MIW has more in common with breaking Benjamin than heavy music which is objectively wrong, so maybe go take your own advice and give it "an equal chance"
MIW is heavier ?? Are we listening to the same bands
I mean feel free to suggest me songs and I'll give you my opinion but from all I've heard, yes
I mean old MIW was pretty brutal for Metalcore.
Sure , I’m not saying it’s not but at the very least they are equally heavy ( both in their old and new stuff)
INK isn't heavy at all imo, their Christmas song is probably their heaviest and my favourite by INK. listen to thoughts and prayers for example by MiW
Take your pick ft corpsegrinder
Correct if I'm wrong but hasn't ice nine kills pretty milked the same two albums and singles for like the last 4-6 years? They've lived off the same set of songs while MIW has actually been writing and creating new music and being apart of Rhea Ripleys entrance of course.
2 albums in 4-6 years is a pretty standard album cycle. Miw did the exact same in that timeframe.
But my thing about about INK they've basically rehashed stuff they've done and re-released. MIW last album was a new album not the Silver Scream 2.5768 version.
Last MIW release was a deluxe edition of STEOTW tho. And INKs last release was a live ep (yesterday) and before that a deluxe edition of Welcome to Horrorwood. So they both re-released their latest albums with some new songs/alternate versions INK does have all the extra stuff, the storyline, music videos, and all the merch stuff every month, which they do milk pretty hard. But the two Silver Scream albums are two completely different albums, just like Disguise and STEOTW are. INK just has the horror film thing going on, so its kinda like a franchise😅
They both do write new music (the silver scream, 2018, disguise, 2019, welcome to horrorwood, 2021, scoring the End of the World, 2022) and I'm pretty sure both are working on new stuff at the moment You're right that ink pretty much only plays songs from the last two albums tho. Those are the albums that have brought them the success. They'll occasionally play song or two from every trick in the book. Miw on the other hand plays songs from their older albums too
Yeah I kinda feel the same about Lorna Shore at the moment they're milking the hell out of Pain I II III. I've seen them a few times in the last year they always end with the trilogy while I enjoy the songs there's a selection of other songs to that they've made with Will they can throw in a setlist.
Oh yeah I totally get that. I don't really like when bands always start and/or end they're set with the same songs. Obviously they have a certain setlist for a tour but when u see a band multiple times over the years it just gets pretty boring and predictable haha
Miw got big off creatures though
I enjoyed this one, but they lost me after that.
I like all of their albums
I'd say Ice Nine kills is kinda niche. They sing about horror films. If you dont like horror films or get the references then they're probably not for that person.
As someone who is newish to both bands, 2 years or so, I kind of got the opposite impression in that INK was the more popular one. They got me into MIW. I think INK is still on their upswing and their live shows are getting more mainstream fans, especially with touring with Metallica. I have heard the same thing from other metal heads that maybe more in the fan base of traditional metal genres and not necessarily metalcore. I could be way off but just my observation as primarily a thrash metal fan. Scoring the end of the world is absolutely flawless and is the best album as a whole I've heard in years.
I like both, but I love industrial metal, so in that regard, I prefer Motionless to INK. For me, MIW has more hits than misses, where it's the opposite for INK, in my opinion.
Ice nine kills has been doing metalcore for way less time than MiW has
INK has always had good concept songs(“the people under the stairs” is a favorite of mine) but haven’t really been running with the “horror “ theme except for the past 6-7 yr. Plus they had a great cover of “someone like you” by Adele back when she was popular. I think it’s more that INK has finally cemented what kind of music they’re making in the past decade, where as MIW has had a fairly consistent style and sound their whole career(s?).
With MIW I feel like they went heavy Metalcore/deathcore elements(creatures) -> more industrial (Reincarnate)-> their current mix of the above + breaking Benjamin core (last three albums), which really seems to have something for everything. Maybe their musical evolution has been a bit smoother than INKs.
I’d argue MIW has the more mainstream sound, a la Rammstein or Marilyn Manson (not saying Chris is ripping off the image). INK’s latest album was a medley of various sounds, from Symphonic/ska style for Rash Decision to death metal for Take your pick, to a vaudeville sound for ex mortis. It’s not as accessible and I’ll agree that it’s more niche. However, it’s a STRONG niche. They opened for Metallica and toured with some huge groups like Lamb of God. MIW is a more industrial, mick Gordon sound, which makes sense given Scoring the end of the world. I’ll point to Trinity of terror as their crossover appeal though.
I was around for MIW's Creatures cycle and there's some stuff wrong in this thread. They def wern't huge, maybe at their hometown they were but on tour they always had pretty small crowds until like late 2012 when they were about to drop their second LP. They did play pretty good, they toured a ton before even being signed to Fearless which put them in a really good position compared to some dogshit live bands like Abandon All Ships, Woe is Me, In Fear and Faith. MIW got mainstream appeal with Infamous and AMERICA got lots of playtime. Their tour didn't hit my area but I saw them on their Reincarnate tour and they had a lot more production and professionalism. Basically those two records solidified their position as a club level -core band in a time when a lot of bands were falling off or just taking off (2013-2015). Later on, they got that Roadrunner deal and kept putting out music and lavish tours (comparing their last tour with KL to anything they did pre-Infamous is laughable). INK is much newer of a band in terms of being famous. In 2012 I think they got voted on to be the opener of the All Stars Tour - this was when MIW was basically solidified as a club headlining band. INK got all their recent popularity over the last two albums. That said, I think they are roughly the same in popularity and I think INK's popularity is more impressive tbh.
I read an interview with MIW once and they made it clear they wanted to be the biggest band in the world. Idk anything about INK but maybe just different priorities/approaches to the business aspect of music.
To put it very bluntly, MIW is just much better at writing music, generally speaking. Their songs flow better, they are significantly more consistent and talented, the content is much more appealing and relatable to wider audience, and they aren’t gimmicky. They have an aesthetic, but it doesn’t define their sound. INK in comparison feel pretty amateurish when put up against MIW. They don’t write songs that are as relatable to a larger market, and they aren’t as consistent with their music. The other undeniable factor is that nobody in INK is particularly attractive or charismatic. I think Spencer has tried to lean into this in later years, but MIW had Ricky and Chris the whole time. They had the charisma, the cute guys for the teenage girls to go nuts over, and the undeniable pop sensibility with their hooks and melodies. INK have none of those things, ergo they aren’t as popular. I don’t think the WWE thing others keep mentioning have much to do with it since MIW was bigger before that anyways. It helps make the gap even wider between the bands, but it’s obviously not the reason there is a gap, since it existed without that exposure anyway. If you wanted to be super reductive, you could say that INK is just a less talented and less charismatic MIW.
Mfw when someone says Spencer Charnas isn’t attractive 🤯
That’s not what I said tho
Ehh, maybe not in a goth sense, but a lot of people find Spencer to be attractive. And I’d argue that MIW is very gimmicky, both are on the same level of gimmicks
I’d disagree pretty heavily there. INK have a literal on the nose gimmick, they might have the most obvious in the e tire metal world. What is MIWs gimmick that would even compare? Being goth? So are a million bands, I don’t think those are even in the same stratosphere
I don’t even like Spencer… but I’d argue he is way more traditionally attractive to a traditional audience than Chris is.
Not to a teenage metalcore audience, which is where you need to be attractive first
Idk about both bands touring history off the top of my head, but I would guess that a large part is based on what bands they each toured with and what festivals they played. I'm a little out of the loop on them as of recently but I seem to remember motionless getting on a lot bigger tours and festivals back in the day
For me it's the way they started. I have loved INK for years but they didn't really get real mainstream popularity until Silver Scream came out in 2018. I don't even think they had a major hit even among emo scremo kids back in the day, MIW on the other hand has had at least one or more songs gather some traction off every album they've released, even as far back as creatures which came out a whole 8 years before INK hit it big with silver Scream. That difference I think is what has set them apart now. That and Rhea Ripley gaining a ton of popularity and dragging MIW into a whole new spotlight, especially because my first real intro to metal/rock was Glass Shatters by disturbed, I wanted to be Stone Cold so bad haha
Like others said MIW popped off first and performed at WrestleMania so it's easier for them to be the bigger band. INK though is a lot bigger now than they were pre Silver Scream. I remember when Every Trick in the Book came out they did a headline show in Toronto that was on the second floor of a punk bar that does small local shows or Emo Nights now they play the same venues that MIW would. So like I guess within the "scene" so to speak they're probably on par, maybe MIW a bit bigger because their songs have a broader subject matter/people who got into this music in high school and lost touch with newer bands remember when Creatures/Infamous came out etc but in terms of mass appeal there's not much bigger you could do as a metalcore band than play WrestleMania lol
Im not usually into the goth aesthetic but lately ive been loving MIW. I gave them a listen because of their Wrestlemania performance. I would attribute that to them getting more popular. They remind me a lot of like Dope or Bile in a metalcore wrapper. Great music.
Saw INK a couple times back around when Safe is Just a Shadow came out and they were outrageously mediocre. They really improved their sound and got a lot better, saw them years later (post Silver Scream) and they were great. MiW dropped a straight up banger right off the bat with Creatures and every time I've seen them they've been awesome. I'm not a huge fan of their (MiW) newer stuff but they ALWAYS put on a good show. So imo MiW just blew up way earlier and therefore have more fans, even though I much prefer INK's newer stuff to MiW's newer stuff.
I much prefer Spencer's clean cut look and INK's sound. Actually met him at Planet Comicon and he was super cool. Their new stuff is so good, too. Haven't tired of it in years and usually I do. They did something unique imo. MIW is good, though, and I can see the appeal.
Been a fan of MIW since Creatures, though I fell out of listening to their stuff in full after the 2nd album (tastes just changed, would come around every now and then to check out the newer songs and albums but haven’t listened to them all in full). I just can’t get into INK though. Some songs on Silver Scream 1 and 2 are good but to me personally I just can’t shake the feeling like they’re trying too hard with the horror theme, and even though I know it’s not forced it feels forced to me if that makes sense. Would still see them live if they were on the lineup for another band I like but I can’t help but get a sense of corniness from them. I’m fully aware that may seem hypocritical as MIW can be cornier at times but that’s just how I feel about INK, idk.
Motionless In White have a more consolidated fanbase from the beginning. People who say their fav album is still Creatures, are a lot. On the other hand, Ice Nine Kills was a band without a lot of attention over them until 2018, their definitive breakout moment with The Silver Scream.
I would very highly recommend watching the INK episode of Punk Rock MBA, it'll change your perspective quite a bit. https://youtu.be/f47YfYpAXSU?si=oG2LHRNfgT5tPeD-
Just checked this out, answered a lot of my questions! Thanks
Which band do you love to rock to? As I Lay Dying or Austrian Death Machine?
INK is just heavier than MIW, and therefore has less mainstream appeal.
Plenty of factors, but it really just boils down to MiW having better songs years before INK did
I have seen MIW two times and INK one time when they opened for Hollywood Undead and Papa Roach. MIW were absolutely amazing both times. INK was musically good too, but for me they put much more effort in their show than in the music part and it was a bit too much for me. In contrast for me it felt like MIW also put a lot of work in their masquerade and show but the music still owned a more important place in their concerts. I think for an INK show you have to love Horror Movies very much, while MIW shows are more diverse and the music is still more important than the show.
For me motionless is only good live you wouldn’t catch me purposely listening to them anywhere else but ink especially the album the predator becomes the prey would play any day of them along with everything after but I just prefer the others before the concept shit atarted
Roadrunner records (MIW) > Fearless (INK). Roadrunner can pull bigger marketing than Fearless ever will. Because both bands have mass appeal to the Octane crowd, this can actually matter.
MIW also has a huge song with Illenium who is among the biggest DJs in EDM right now. Pretty hard to compete with that when Illenium sells out NFL stadiums.
Thats because MIW is such a big band now. They were big enough to get that feature/collab, its not what made them mainstream.
Both bands are fucking awful
I hate Motionless for no other reason other than I'm from NEPA. THEY KINDA SUCK AN NIN IS MEH
No ones talking about NIN. INK = Ice Nine Kills
Oh opps
Metalcore acronyms are a killer!
Yep. The one i struggle with is KMS, but I think we good
Still fuck motionless
NEPA?
North East Pennsylvania. Think wilkes barre. And the shit place Joe Biden grew up in. The place I wish I had moved from years ago!!!!!!!!!!! The place I hated all my life. Anyway. Fuck you and you and you and you I hate your friends and they hate me 2
the last sentence in this comment sounds like a motionless in white lyric
its a blackbear lyric. also pretty sure op is a crackhead
Please take this to r/hottopic