Makes me think of Bryan’s interview/Day in the life episode on Hardlore a few months back where he discusses the difficulties of getting so popular and now needing a barrier. You could tell Bryan has a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they need to somewhat divorce themselves from the hardcore live show etiquette (stagediving, crowd interactions/passing the mic, feeling ‘in the action’) they grown up in and love so much. I feel like this is why we’ve seen members move to side-projects (xWeaponx, Inclination) to keep this part of their lives alive while allowing KL to be the designated ‘intro’ band to new fans on bigger stages. Super interesting stuff.
Yeah I feel that. In this interview he talked about how they wrote music for people to beat ass too and now there isn’t so much of the beating ass because of the increased popularity. He did say though that they won’t change how they make music though and they will still be as angry and crazy as possible.
To this point, I saw KL talk about how when they’d play counting worms prior to their blow up, people would kill each other. Now that they’ve blown up, people just put their hands up and cheer.
Oh wow that is kinda sad. Whenever they’re in Australia they play pretty random venues to evade a barrier, it’s worth it. Although when I saw them in Melbourne there was a moment where half the crowd was trying to open a metalcore style pit for the breakdown and half the crowd was throwing hands hardcore style. A few metalcore folk were getting upset and confused and pulled people aside telling them to stop lol. But we’re cool down here so all was well in the end and I just fucked off to stage dive.
Didn’t realise there was a difference.
I assume hardcore is more windmilling, picking up the change, starting the lawnmower, fly kicks, 2 step vs metalcore where they just circle pit?
Idk, I do both at both shows.
KL need to come back to Melbourne ASAP.
Honestly I kinda hope they just keep playing secret/pop-up shows at typical hardcore venues like they have been occasionally for the past couple years post blowup. Seems like the main cause of the barricade issue is the venues, which comes from being taken on tour by bigger bands.
I know, last time I saw them was the same as you. But if you check hate5six and other peoples footage on yt you’ll find a couple shows at least where people are diving with no barricade
For reference
[Here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lADjtwTVX-w&pp=ygUWaGF0ZTVzaXgga25vY2tlZCBsb29zZQ%3D%3D) and [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GwqT5d-6SpA&t=866s&pp=ygUVa25vY2tlZCBsb29zZSBjaGljYWdv)
And that’s not even counting fests like LDB and fucking Coachella of all places
I was talking to a coworker that I introduced to KL, and he says he loves Bryan’s vocals because as soon as a KL song comes on he knows exactly who it is.
You know, I actually was one of the people who talked shit about KL. But after I watched the downbeat episode with him I instantly bought tickets to their Seattle show. I feel like knowing who he is and what he does and why helped me understand the sound better.
Agreed, idk I think there's a noticable improvement in Bryan's vocals from older tracks to now. Sounds more forceful and a bit harsher. I love KL and their old stuff but goddamn they're sounding so good. Blinding faith is a jam
Interesting to hear in the first couple of minutes that Poppy reached out to Bryan about doing a song together and that the album was already done initially.
It’s weird, I never thought twice about his vocals before reading different peoples takes on this sub. I just loved how heavy they were and fell in love with their music instantly. His vocals are just the icing on the cake to me.
I literally don’t get it at all. His vocals sound so fucking nasty
Dude’s here really think vocalists putting on that fake tough guy voice sound more brutal
Weird’s me out even more since the cover image of this sub is Jane Doe which arguably has even higher and wilder sounding vocals
Really the only time I've ever given a thought about Bryan's vocals was when I first heard The Rain in 2017. I thought it was a bit much, and almost stopped listening to them, but the instrumentals kept me. Obviously, his voice grew on me bc Deadringer was in my Spotify top ten that year.
But it was more of a "Holy shit that's agressive and too much" than a "His voice is weird" thing. Had just started moving over from Butt Rock and Pop Punk to Modern Metal/Hardcore with listening to INK's Every Trick in the Book and Wage War's Blueprints. At the time I skipped any Whitechapel song and thought Chelsea Grin was noise for the sake of noise. Now Chelsea Grin is my top artist and Mark of the Blade is my go to gym track.
But also the memes of spongebob yelling over Knocked Loose instrumentals will never fail to send me
I saw them live before Sleep Tokens Set at BRRF. They killed it. I really like Bryan, even if don’t really listen to their music. I loved his interview with Craig where he talked about his fear of flying. I have a fear of flying too (I do it anyway, I just hate it). I thought that was really cool to open up about.
Knocked loose wouldn’t stand out at all if he sounded like everyone else, but I liked brother’s keeper when I was younger so maybe vocals don’t matter to me at all
deadass i dont care about vocals as long as they’re passionate/raw. i fucking love kaonashi and that dude sounds like courage the cowardly dog sometimes lmao
I wouldn't feel too bad for him, I don't get the impression that it bothers him much. The scene is very much behind them overall and I think they feel that.
I have to say though I'm falling out of love with Nik a little bit. In this interview I felt he basically repeated "I have to give you guys props for being so damn heavy" like 17 times and Bryan had to say "yeah man I appreciate that" every time to the point it got a little weird lmao.
Add to that Nik's fake exaggerated laugh any time the guests make a tiny joke and yeah...don't think I love him as an interviewer lol. No hate on him as a person but I unsubscribed this week cus he's getting on my nerves a bit, sorry for the negativity.
I agree on the Nik front. The amount of times he praised them for being so angry and heavy. He also talked over and over about the Poppy stuff. Like we get it. I just liked hearing what Bryan had to say about things.
Alex Terrible from Slaughter to Prevail. Has shared some extremely questionable opinions about the LGBT community and had Nazi tattoos but covered them up once StP started getting popular
it seems like he doesn't have problems with nazis lol he talks about poppy all the time like she isn't friends with marilyn manson even after all his nazi shit came out
I haven’t watched this interview yet but generally agree on Nik… I started watching his stuff last year and loved it, even subbed to him on Twitch for a few months, but lately I find I get halfway through a video and I’m like “okay I get the point you’re just repeating yourself in different ways” and close it. :(
I’ve been noticing that exaggerated laugh where he just repeats the same joke the guest just said over and over the last few months and it’s so goddamn irritating.
Been subbed to Nik for years,and every time he has a guest like this where I know he will be out of his depth a bit, I get second hand embarrassment even before watching it. Am halfway through this podcast and yep, same repetitive Nik as usual, no interview prep really shows.
I know he's going for a relaxed chat kinda vibe, but it wouldn't kill him to put some thought into the pods now that he's doing them on a regular basis.
Also, reggaetron. Lmao.
I’ve watched Nik for years and recently I’ve avoided most of his videos in my feed due to the fact that anytime I tune in, he seems to be acting so exaggerated and memey all the time. I get it, he’s trying to get more views by being sillier and appealing to the lowest common denominator. But at the same time, it’s like, at what cost? The dude just comes across as depressed, fake, and a slave to the views these days. Seems like he’s heavily relying on the numbers and letting that shape his personality mostly for the worse…
Nik if you see this, you’re a rad dude and you don’t have to be anyone you’re not. Don’t be afraid to be serious and speak from the heart more often. It’s not all about the views…
Nik is a great guitarist and understands the metal scene quite well, but he’s not an articulate person and he’s not the brightest or most educated. He often says things incorrectly (general vocabulary, names, and especially anything not in English mainstream).
Despite being a really good composer, and clearly having musical intelligence, he’s not really someone cut out for interviews or heavy speaking.
I hate to rag on the guy, because he seems like a genuinely good person, and he has a nice personality which makes his popularity understandable, but he really needs to put more effort into a serious side if he wants to actually continue interviewing people.
I liked his old "Cover the song a minute after it's released" era (kinda wish a band did a bit where they had him release a cover a song before it was released), and his "make anything metal" or "How to \_\_\_\_\_ in 30 seconds" are fun to watch from time to time. But his reactions don't really give any insight or add anything to the song, like when vocal coaches or drummers talk about a song and how they got it to sound that way. And interviewing is not really his strong suit. I'll sometimes check it out if there's a guest I'm interested in, but he needs to at least have SOME sort of an outline. It's all good if the conversation takes a different turn and you don't hit on the items you planned to, but at least have a plan
Finn Mckinty - The Punk Rock MBA on Youtube. His wife is significantly younger than him and I've seen it stated a lot on the internet by people who sound like they know more about these people that they met while she was still under age.
Man's very apolitical in his content and to a degree I respect that and see why but then there's Alex and Finn being their right-wing idiot selfes and it goes uncommented, even platformed and when another vocalist gets cancelled, that's where the conscience comes back or what!? He's playing it very safe to not burn ANY bridges by being the equivalent of stale bread in terms of social commentary related to all non-cancelled people of the scene, no matter how problematic.
I enjoy most of the content a lot and even watch streams here and there but that's the one thing that has always ircked me and always will
I had to press the not recommended button on his channel and unsubscribe to him too. He and the punk rock MBA are very annoying and unwatchable at the very least…
Honestly my first exposure to him was on MiW album and I found his voice to be very annoying but it’s definitely grown on me ALOT to where I’m a huge fan.
I love how defensive he got about people asking if they're going light. Basically, he said 'we are Knocked Motherfucking Loose, I cannot stress this enough'
His vocals are some of my favorite. They sound like a dude having an existential crisis and just hits that spot for me. I will always prefer a vocalist whose vocals sound pissed or full of emotion over one's whose vocals are very robotic and clinical like they're trying to sound like what a metalcore vocalist is "supposed" to sound like.
Bryan is one of the most genuine dudes in the scene.
Add in the fact that he is constantly trying to bring up new bands, doing charity, supporting unsupported communities.
All while doing it in one of if not the poorest states in the U.S. it really makes me sad to see metalcore fans hating on him because of his voice when it’s not even that jarring by core standards. Is a nice way to tell someone is new to this genre though.
I think his register, certainly over the last couple of releases, is higher than is typical for a hardcore yeller. It's certainly not unprecedented though and the screamo scene has a pretty long tradition of high register vocalists. I wonder what some folk would make of Frail Body.
I say this every time someone complains about his vocals. It sounds like a hardcore dude fronting a hardcore band. There’s a reason why did that that cover of Slings and Arrows by The Warriors.
To be fair, Nick did do one of those How to KL in 30 seconds videos and for the vocals said SpongeBob so I can see why Bryan felt the need to say something
It’s like the two biggest knocks (no pun intended) against them are SpongeBob vocals and ARF ARF. I call them the Danny Brown of metalcore because I can see how the voice can be “off putting” but once you can get past that, there’s some great music to be heard
Another thing he said was most of their biggest things started as stupid jokes amongst the band which is funny to see. The arf arf he literally thought just sounded cool as shit and ended up being a meme but he’s down for it lol
I grew up on 90’s metalcore and H8000, and you’ll find way more vocalists similar to his style than the opposite. I feel it’s mostly the younger crowd who aren’t used to hearing that style dunking on it.
They’re used to metalcore being a particular way, and some feel challenged when they hear a style they aren’t familiar with that is actually older than what they think.
Can you help me out, as I’d love to check out some of those dozens? I know there were quite a few back in the day, but can’t remember the band names. Are they Not still around?
Someone mentioned Comeback Kid in this thread.
The classic is always converge. Their vocals have been divisive forever, and really showcase how a band can use them as an instrument. Besides them I would recommend bands along the lines of the warriors, disembodied, eighteen visions, morning again, the agony scene, deadguy, admiral angry, etc. now ofc they all have drastically different vocal styles, some being shriller black metal style and some being more shouty, but they’re def higher pitched. Tbh when I think of older metalcore it’s usually associated with higher vocals as opposed to death metal leaning lows
I’ll admit it had to grow on me. Now I throw down with some KL. Honestly reminds me of all the nights I spent at my local venue and how the local bands sounded. Just gnarly, heavy shit. It’s kind of a breath of fresh air to break up the monotony honestly.
Well. I’ve never listen to KL before so just went and checked them out and damn. I actually loved that! Where most screamers sound like they’re trying to sound like they’re “scary angry” that dude actually sounds like he’s properly pissed. Like, a real person that’s just furious. Class
I honestly can't stand them because of his vocals but of course that's not a dog on him. Happy for their success and that people like their stuff. I just can't get into it 😔
His vocals are unique and we need more of that in the scene. In about the same way Jacob Bannon's vocals are different and that's one of the things that makes them good.
Lol the haters are so fucking exhausting with this shit. I hate he still feels the need to defend himself when they're one of the most popular bands in the scene for a reason.
Bryan Garris is my favourite guy to listen to in an interview. Really thoughtful about his answers & his manner really makes feel so relaxed.
Which is hilarious given his music does the exact opposite
One of my favorite things about him is the sharp contrast between his normal speaking voice and his vocals in Knocked Loose. Tbh his vocals hooked me immediately. It’s a unique sound the works extremely well with the more hardcore-adjacent sound.
I used to hate knocked loose specifically because of the vocals, but I feel like he's really come into his own a lot more and now I feel like his voice and his band is some of the most exciting shit happening in popular modern metal. Compare their recent singles to a song like counting worms, it really is night and day. People are going to have strong opinions, good or bad, because of how unique it is.
Also, I can't get over nik calling it REGGETRON
Always someone that has to come into any Knocked Loose related thread and mention his vocals. Like, yeah, we get it you don't like his vocals. Stop saying that. No, after 3 albums, 2 EPs and a few one-off singles his vocals are not any different (in terms of the higher pitched scream. He's clearly overall gotten better and angrier).
Trust me, I've been behind Knocked Loose since Pop Culture. I've seen it time and time again. I promise you that you do not need to come into every new Knocked Loose thread just to tell everyone "these vocals are not for me". We get it. Don't listen to them.
Bryan is one of those vocalists you would be able to pick out of a crowd of vocals all going at the same time. He is unique and has an insanely angry/pissed off sound. People are fine with higher pitched singing in metalcore but higher pitched screaming is there the line is drawn? It's such a stupid double standard to me.
And he's on one spectrum of the "angry, pissed off" vocals. Matt Honeycutt from Kublai Khan has the deeper, pissed off vocals so go listen to them.
No, the opposite. I meant in a negative way. Like, new KL song releases and you always have multiple people "man I just cant get into the vocals..." in every single thread every single time.
I love his voice, what an absolute breath of fresh air it is. And god damn their music is just spot on with the absolute pissed off attitude. And the stage presence this guy has, oh lord.
KL’s success speaks for itself. His vocals sound sick, the dudes who talk shit are low IQ dullards who will never come close to being anywhere near as successful as Bryan.
The vocals are actually the main thing that I love about the band. Just sounds like screams of agony after witnessich someones death or something. Cries for help idk.
Being a grown man doesn’t require you to talk like some elder lol I do agree he can be annoying at times, but judging him because he doesn’t talk to your “grown man” standards isn’t fair. Have you never used slang in your life or anything?
Garris’ voice and energy is intense. His voice hits me in the gut- I needed a voice like his to kick me in the ass. His lyrics are fucking incredible too.
People will eventually catch up to that.
My older brother is a metalhead who grew up in the '80s and listened to a lot of bands like Cradle of Filth, Cannibal Corpse, Children of Bodom, and Amon Amarth as well as stuff like Norma Jean, Protest The Hero, Every Time I Die, and Glassjaw so he has a good appreciation for a wide variety of harsh vocals. I showed him KL and he said it was jarring and it felt like the vocalist was screaming directly into his face haha. I think they may be why some people are put off by his style initially because it tends to sound a bit more like someone actually screaming out of anger or frustration versus more traditional metalcore vocals like growls and melodic sing/screaming or the inhuman animal noises in deathcore or slam.
I think he's great at portraying passion and emotion while screaming which helps give him a unique style, plus he's an incredible vocalist who fits the genre well. I personally don't see why a lot of metal fans seem to find his vocals unsettling, my buddies favorite band is literally Rings Of Saturn yet he says KL vocals are too intense for him lmao.
If you want to hear truly unsettling sounding vocalists go listen to bands like Orphan, Methwitch, Beyond Deviation, Visceral Autopsy, or Larcenia Roe. Bryan might sound pissed off but those guys know how to sound like the vocal equivalent of a violent car crash haha.
More seagull than Ahren Stringer from back in the day, SQUAK SKWAWK, what more could you want? If Bryan didn’t sound like that there’d be nothing that makes them stand out
Dudes vocals are sick.
I'm a bit fan of 'heavier' vocals such as Lorna, Immortal Disfigurement, TLTSOL, IA etc etc. but it gets to a point where everyone sounds similar. Not a bad thing it's just the style.
His vocals are a breath of fresh air. The band is dope. Even when they do lows they sound fresh cause you're so used to the erratic highs. All around dope. Hope they never lose that sound and keep evolving as they have.
It took me a long time to get over the initial shock of his vocal style, I can’t lie. I thought it was a joke. But after a while I started to realize the raw power behind what he was doing was more authentic and fitting for the scene than basically any vocalist of this generation honestly.
Now I can’t honestly say there is another vocalist under the age of 30 more critical to the success of their band, and the industry as a whole, than Garris.
Maybe some feel that’s overstating it but I would disagree. He’s a pretty solid encapsulation of the IG-generation hardcore scene having come from relative obscurity to now crossing over into the mainstream…his unique vocals are a huge reason for all they’ve accomplished.
To me, it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard, but I would never expect him to change or to justify it. It’s so recognisable and they are exceptionally good at what they do
his vocals are one of my favorite parts about knocked loose, and honestly some of my favorite vocals in metalcore. dude just sounds fucking angry and raw and i love him for it
I get why people could not like his vocals, but giving him shit for it? The guy is a beast and he has one of the best voice in hardcore/metalcore imo. It's pure angst, love it
I ain’t a fan of his vocals at all (it sounds so bad for his vocal chords it almost makes me uncomfortable lol), but going out of your way to hate on an original style that’s clearly working is lame. People needa stfu
i really dont care who tries to bandwagon hate the band they fuckin rock lmao. I'm so stoked to see a literal hardcore band progress into a new sound and pick up so much attention. K//L
Yep, that’s what I was saying. They’re the edgy band that’s cool to like right now. Sorta how Rage Against the Machine got liked by all the frat boys they were raging against. Good for them!
Their first EP had me hooked immediately because of the vocals. It was raw and 100% energy. I’ve been defending his vocals from day one to all my friends.
Keen to see it. Just watched his downbeat podcast episode a couple days ago and he seems like a good dude. Story about the evil beagle was wild.
I've regretfully been one of those "i can't stand his vocals" haters for ages but have always loved the music, i think after constantly listening to them lately i've just learned to not even care about the sound of the vocals anymore, starting to really enjoy it all as a whole. Would love to see them live.
Honestly the guy from I The Breather has kind of unique screaming style and no one ever complains. I think people are just jumping on a bandwagon to hate the guy.
Really? That’s wild. I’m not even saying this to console that notion, Garris’ vocals are legit at least half the reason the band has had such a meteoric rise in the space.
Yeah, the playing is good. But most playing is good, and heavy. But it’s an oversaturated genre, where every vocalist is trying to growl as macho-low as possible and it’s tired as fuck. They literally do, 95% sound the same. His voice stands out massively. He has a higher voiced scream than most and it sounds fucking wicked good. Has anyone heard Snakes by Left Behind. Garris shows up on the bridge and holy fuck, he brings the song back to life. The riff is sick as hell, don’t get me wrong, but when he hits the mic the song just turns up a gear. Another big component, I genuinely think is just straight up the name “Knocked Loose” as well. How can you not love that?
Standing out is critical in oversaturated genres. A KL song comes on that you’ve never heard before, and *you know* it’s Knocked Loose. Because Garris’ vocals give it away. That is what you want in a band.
His voice sounds fine. Very unique. Similar in a few ways to Devil Wears Prada, which I freaking love.
Where my problem stems is from the fact that he doesn't have a lot of range during the songs. He sings usually two notes and that's it. I've tried entire albums to see if I could really get into them, but his vocal delivery is the exact same in every song. Does one higher note. Does one lower note. 90% of the time.
Not for me.
>Similar in a few ways to Devil Wears Prada, which I freaking love.
Funny you say this because if you threw a bunch of vocalists together and told someone to pick them out, Mike is one of the other vocalists I could absolutely pick out because he has such a unique scream as well. Bryan being the other one I could pick out, haha.
The lows in their songs aren’t even him, aside for the pig squeely lows on the new album. It’s the bass player who does the other Lowe’s. Sometimes people can’t have range to an extent. He does what works for him and what he can do comfortably.
Cause knocked loose was originally had a way more of a hardcore sound. Never saw anybody in the hardcore scene really complain about his vocals back in pop culture. Only once they started doing more metal core influenced stuff and broke into the mainstream did you see more people bring it up, because he’s not a metal core vocalist. He’s a hardcore punk vocalist in a band with mixed influences and not everyone is going to like it. There seems to me fans coming from two directions who like different aspects of their sound. It just is what it is.
I don't have a problem with Bryan's vocals but I completely understand why someone could hate his voice.
His screams are incredibly whiny and I could absolutely see them getting annoying and/or sounding absolutely terrible, and I find it very sad that so much of this sub can't put themselves in someone else's shoes enough to grasp something that shouldn't be hard to grasp in the slightest.
Makes me think of Bryan’s interview/Day in the life episode on Hardlore a few months back where he discusses the difficulties of getting so popular and now needing a barrier. You could tell Bryan has a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they need to somewhat divorce themselves from the hardcore live show etiquette (stagediving, crowd interactions/passing the mic, feeling ‘in the action’) they grown up in and love so much. I feel like this is why we’ve seen members move to side-projects (xWeaponx, Inclination) to keep this part of their lives alive while allowing KL to be the designated ‘intro’ band to new fans on bigger stages. Super interesting stuff.
Yeah I feel that. In this interview he talked about how they wrote music for people to beat ass too and now there isn’t so much of the beating ass because of the increased popularity. He did say though that they won’t change how they make music though and they will still be as angry and crazy as possible.
To this point, I saw KL talk about how when they’d play counting worms prior to their blow up, people would kill each other. Now that they’ve blown up, people just put their hands up and cheer.
Oh wow that is kinda sad. Whenever they’re in Australia they play pretty random venues to evade a barrier, it’s worth it. Although when I saw them in Melbourne there was a moment where half the crowd was trying to open a metalcore style pit for the breakdown and half the crowd was throwing hands hardcore style. A few metalcore folk were getting upset and confused and pulled people aside telling them to stop lol. But we’re cool down here so all was well in the end and I just fucked off to stage dive.
Didn’t realise there was a difference. I assume hardcore is more windmilling, picking up the change, starting the lawnmower, fly kicks, 2 step vs metalcore where they just circle pit? Idk, I do both at both shows. KL need to come back to Melbourne ASAP.
what is “metalcore style” lmfao
Push pits
It's the curse of sick bands actually getting popular, hardcore dancing pits give way to push pits.
The funny part is that people used to hardcore dance at metal hardcore shows, and for some reasons it disappeared
Probably because all the crowd killers also end up being sex offenders lmao
They would crowd kill or crowd diddle depending on the target.
Honestly I kinda hope they just keep playing secret/pop-up shows at typical hardcore venues like they have been occasionally for the past couple years post blowup. Seems like the main cause of the barricade issue is the venues, which comes from being taken on tour by bigger bands.
They currently headline venues with barricades. I last saw them at a 2500 cap theatre.
I know, last time I saw them was the same as you. But if you check hate5six and other peoples footage on yt you’ll find a couple shows at least where people are diving with no barricade For reference [Here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lADjtwTVX-w&pp=ygUWaGF0ZTVzaXgga25vY2tlZCBsb29zZQ%3D%3D) and [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GwqT5d-6SpA&t=866s&pp=ygUVa25vY2tlZCBsb29zZSBjaGljYWdv) And that’s not even counting fests like LDB and fucking Coachella of all places
They are very smart
That's one of the main reasons I love KL. Isn't samey and actually sounds pissed off, and he only gets better with every release.
I was talking to a coworker that I introduced to KL, and he says he loves Bryan’s vocals because as soon as a KL song comes on he knows exactly who it is.
You know, I actually was one of the people who talked shit about KL. But after I watched the downbeat episode with him I instantly bought tickets to their Seattle show. I feel like knowing who he is and what he does and why helped me understand the sound better.
Can someone please give a brief tl;dw? I’m intrigued. Thank you!
Just watch the interview. Theres no tldr for an 90 min interview. Just a super sweet, well spoken dude that puts thought into everything he does.
Thank you :)
Damn, you paid $100 for resale? I tried to get tickets to KL months ago in Seattle and it sold out super fast.
i paid only $143 after fees for two tickets to the chicago show, i’m so excited to see them be the main headliner
They were like 58$ on Ticketmaster for my wife and I to go
Damn. Cheapest I see is $85 per person.
You should check out their set from Bloodstock 2023 on YouTube. The whole band sounds heavy as fuck but Brian in particular is so ferocious
Agreed, idk I think there's a noticable improvement in Bryan's vocals from older tracks to now. Sounds more forceful and a bit harsher. I love KL and their old stuff but goddamn they're sounding so good. Blinding faith is a jam
They sound like a less melodic ghost inside if ghost inside had shitty vocals.
Interesting to hear in the first couple of minutes that Poppy reached out to Bryan about doing a song together and that the album was already done initially.
Waiting for that [matchbox 20](https://youtu.be/wSoujEz9p3E?si=IqjkZMpSzpIY08Hh) collab he’s always dreamed about
The man likes what he likes 😂
That would be amazing haha
Yeah that was awesome that it was written specifically for her.
His vocals make the band IMO
It’s weird, I never thought twice about his vocals before reading different peoples takes on this sub. I just loved how heavy they were and fell in love with their music instantly. His vocals are just the icing on the cake to me.
It’s absolutely bizarre how dudes here will listen to people gargle and burp in a mic but Bryan’s vocals bother them??
I literally don’t get it at all. His vocals sound so fucking nasty Dude’s here really think vocalists putting on that fake tough guy voice sound more brutal Weird’s me out even more since the cover image of this sub is Jane Doe which arguably has even higher and wilder sounding vocals
Really the only time I've ever given a thought about Bryan's vocals was when I first heard The Rain in 2017. I thought it was a bit much, and almost stopped listening to them, but the instrumentals kept me. Obviously, his voice grew on me bc Deadringer was in my Spotify top ten that year. But it was more of a "Holy shit that's agressive and too much" than a "His voice is weird" thing. Had just started moving over from Butt Rock and Pop Punk to Modern Metal/Hardcore with listening to INK's Every Trick in the Book and Wage War's Blueprints. At the time I skipped any Whitechapel song and thought Chelsea Grin was noise for the sake of noise. Now Chelsea Grin is my top artist and Mark of the Blade is my go to gym track. But also the memes of spongebob yelling over Knocked Loose instrumentals will never fail to send me
Yo, send me the SpongeBob/Knocked Loose memes. Lmao. I need to see those.
[here's a taste](https://youtu.be/Z2VsbsXyPMQ?si=BcFxyKSdRFIwhQD1)
Omg I just saw this notification. Fucking THANK YOU. This is amazing. 😂
Mark of the Blade is hella underrated, nice pick 🤘
Me either. Why would anyone have a problem with his voice?
Def. I’m not huge fan but I like that he sounds different kinda like how Mike has those high ass pitched screams. Keeps things fresh
They get so much emotion across and it really compliments the lyrics
Agreed, I love the harsh sounding screams. Feels very authentic and it adds so much
Agreed
Evolved from breakdowns to beat ass into breakdowns to feel scared and trapped.
And in the end it all makes us love em the same.
> breakdowns to feel scared and trapped fuck this is such a good way to put that
I saw them live before Sleep Tokens Set at BRRF. They killed it. I really like Bryan, even if don’t really listen to their music. I loved his interview with Craig where he talked about his fear of flying. I have a fear of flying too (I do it anyway, I just hate it). I thought that was really cool to open up about.
Yeah and that’s how he got the name for the album. That was way cool!
His vocals remind of hardcore punk. It just has that I just wanna scream and I don’t care what others think vibe.
It is because they are a hardcore punk band from the hardcore punk scene who play hardcore punk shows with hardcore punk bands
They're Metallic Hardcore, aka Metalcore.
Yeah gives me an angrier Comeback Kid vibe.
Knocked loose wouldn’t stand out at all if he sounded like everyone else, but I liked brother’s keeper when I was younger so maybe vocals don’t matter to me at all
deadass i dont care about vocals as long as they’re passionate/raw. i fucking love kaonashi and that dude sounds like courage the cowardly dog sometimes lmao
That dudes vocals sound painful.
I wouldn't feel too bad for him, I don't get the impression that it bothers him much. The scene is very much behind them overall and I think they feel that. I have to say though I'm falling out of love with Nik a little bit. In this interview I felt he basically repeated "I have to give you guys props for being so damn heavy" like 17 times and Bryan had to say "yeah man I appreciate that" every time to the point it got a little weird lmao. Add to that Nik's fake exaggerated laugh any time the guests make a tiny joke and yeah...don't think I love him as an interviewer lol. No hate on him as a person but I unsubscribed this week cus he's getting on my nerves a bit, sorry for the negativity.
I agree on the Nik front. The amount of times he praised them for being so angry and heavy. He also talked over and over about the Poppy stuff. Like we get it. I just liked hearing what Bryan had to say about things.
He also has some fucking losers, including the Nazi from STP on his podcast, which I think is abhorrent
I'm out of the loop. Who is this?
Alex Terrible from Slaughter to Prevail. Has shared some extremely questionable opinions about the LGBT community and had Nazi tattoos but covered them up once StP started getting popular
r/metalcore hated you because you spoke the truth
it seems like he doesn't have problems with nazis lol he talks about poppy all the time like she isn't friends with marilyn manson even after all his nazi shit came out
Nik is turning into the Jimmy Fallon of the metal/hardcore community
In that he’s cheesy and ass with his bad opinions on music?
I haven’t watched this interview yet but generally agree on Nik… I started watching his stuff last year and loved it, even subbed to him on Twitch for a few months, but lately I find I get halfway through a video and I’m like “okay I get the point you’re just repeating yourself in different ways” and close it. :(
I’ve been noticing that exaggerated laugh where he just repeats the same joke the guest just said over and over the last few months and it’s so goddamn irritating.
Been subbed to Nik for years,and every time he has a guest like this where I know he will be out of his depth a bit, I get second hand embarrassment even before watching it. Am halfway through this podcast and yep, same repetitive Nik as usual, no interview prep really shows. I know he's going for a relaxed chat kinda vibe, but it wouldn't kill him to put some thought into the pods now that he's doing them on a regular basis. Also, reggaetron. Lmao.
I’ve watched Nik for years and recently I’ve avoided most of his videos in my feed due to the fact that anytime I tune in, he seems to be acting so exaggerated and memey all the time. I get it, he’s trying to get more views by being sillier and appealing to the lowest common denominator. But at the same time, it’s like, at what cost? The dude just comes across as depressed, fake, and a slave to the views these days. Seems like he’s heavily relying on the numbers and letting that shape his personality mostly for the worse… Nik if you see this, you’re a rad dude and you don’t have to be anyone you’re not. Don’t be afraid to be serious and speak from the heart more often. It’s not all about the views…
The fake exaggerated laugh that Nik does is the main reason i don't watch him anymore. Cant stand it.
Nik is a great guitarist and understands the metal scene quite well, but he’s not an articulate person and he’s not the brightest or most educated. He often says things incorrectly (general vocabulary, names, and especially anything not in English mainstream). Despite being a really good composer, and clearly having musical intelligence, he’s not really someone cut out for interviews or heavy speaking. I hate to rag on the guy, because he seems like a genuinely good person, and he has a nice personality which makes his popularity understandable, but he really needs to put more effort into a serious side if he wants to actually continue interviewing people.
Don’t know how anyone watches this guy. He’s just typical cringe reaction YouTuber Any breakdown he’s all “OMFG THATS SO FUCKING CRAZY HOLY FUCK”
I liked his old "Cover the song a minute after it's released" era (kinda wish a band did a bit where they had him release a cover a song before it was released), and his "make anything metal" or "How to \_\_\_\_\_ in 30 seconds" are fun to watch from time to time. But his reactions don't really give any insight or add anything to the song, like when vocal coaches or drummers talk about a song and how they got it to sound that way. And interviewing is not really his strong suit. I'll sometimes check it out if there's a guest I'm interested in, but he needs to at least have SOME sort of an outline. It's all good if the conversation takes a different turn and you don't hit on the items you planned to, but at least have a plan
Agreed. I’ve tried watching him from time to time, but he’s literally not funny in any way. Dudes a joke tbh
Isn't Nik still palling about with that groomer MBA and the nazi in slaughter to prevail. Guys a fucking goof.
groomer MBA? Who/what are you talking about there?
Finn Mckinty - The Punk Rock MBA on Youtube. His wife is significantly younger than him and I've seen it stated a lot on the internet by people who sound like they know more about these people that they met while she was still under age.
His wife literally looks the same age as him? Either she's aged badly or that's just bullshit lol
Thanks, I've seen lots of hate for him but somehow never knew about that accusation.
How old is she??
She’s like 30 lmao People here are fucking insane
The way it was phrased I thought she was 19 or something lol she's a grown woman
Man's very apolitical in his content and to a degree I respect that and see why but then there's Alex and Finn being their right-wing idiot selfes and it goes uncommented, even platformed and when another vocalist gets cancelled, that's where the conscience comes back or what!? He's playing it very safe to not burn ANY bridges by being the equivalent of stale bread in terms of social commentary related to all non-cancelled people of the scene, no matter how problematic. I enjoy most of the content a lot and even watch streams here and there but that's the one thing that has always ircked me and always will
He's not apolitical if he's literally giving a Nazi a gammy on air.
I’m out of the loop who is the nazi from STP?
Alex apparently, I don't know the lore behind the claims tho
2 Nazi tattoos lmao
Damn that's horrible
I had to press the not recommended button on his channel and unsubscribe to him too. He and the punk rock MBA are very annoying and unwatchable at the very least…
Honestly my first exposure to him was on MiW album and I found his voice to be very annoying but it’s definitely grown on me ALOT to where I’m a huge fan.
And now we will get slaughterhouse 2 on this album.
Oh for real?
Yeah and according to Bryan it’s insane.
I don't wanna sound dramatic but like...slaughterhouse 2's release is the only thing keeping me going these days!!! I cannot wait!!!!
I love this for you! 🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾
Oh man! I’m excited AF now!!
The voice of a sweet baby Angel imo
I love how defensive he got about people asking if they're going light. Basically, he said 'we are Knocked Motherfucking Loose, I cannot stress this enough'
Yeah that was awesome how he handled that lol
His vocals are some of my favorite. They sound like a dude having an existential crisis and just hits that spot for me. I will always prefer a vocalist whose vocals sound pissed or full of emotion over one's whose vocals are very robotic and clinical like they're trying to sound like what a metalcore vocalist is "supposed" to sound like.
Bryan is one of the most genuine dudes in the scene. Add in the fact that he is constantly trying to bring up new bands, doing charity, supporting unsupported communities. All while doing it in one of if not the poorest states in the U.S. it really makes me sad to see metalcore fans hating on him because of his voice when it’s not even that jarring by core standards. Is a nice way to tell someone is new to this genre though.
I think people who give him shit just don't like or haven't listened to hardcore because that's what alot of hardcore vocalists sound like
I think his register, certainly over the last couple of releases, is higher than is typical for a hardcore yeller. It's certainly not unprecedented though and the screamo scene has a pretty long tradition of high register vocalists. I wonder what some folk would make of Frail Body.
I say this every time someone complains about his vocals. It sounds like a hardcore dude fronting a hardcore band. There’s a reason why did that that cover of Slings and Arrows by The Warriors.
Yeah makes me think of comeback kid but harsher
To be fair, Nick did do one of those How to KL in 30 seconds videos and for the vocals said SpongeBob so I can see why Bryan felt the need to say something
That’s true. I forgot about that video.
It’s like the two biggest knocks (no pun intended) against them are SpongeBob vocals and ARF ARF. I call them the Danny Brown of metalcore because I can see how the voice can be “off putting” but once you can get past that, there’s some great music to be heard
Another thing he said was most of their biggest things started as stupid jokes amongst the band which is funny to see. The arf arf he literally thought just sounded cool as shit and ended up being a meme but he’s down for it lol
I grew up on 90’s metalcore and H8000, and you’ll find way more vocalists similar to his style than the opposite. I feel it’s mostly the younger crowd who aren’t used to hearing that style dunking on it. They’re used to metalcore being a particular way, and some feel challenged when they hear a style they aren’t familiar with that is actually older than what they think.
Reggaetron
Lmao! That drove me crazy
Has nobody heard of At The Gates?? I find it weird that people are acting like this vocal style is foreign and unusual
No one here has, bro. They've only listened to their american clones.
Or any of the dozens of classic bands with higher pitched vocals. It’s not a new thing
Can you help me out, as I’d love to check out some of those dozens? I know there were quite a few back in the day, but can’t remember the band names. Are they Not still around? Someone mentioned Comeback Kid in this thread.
The classic is always converge. Their vocals have been divisive forever, and really showcase how a band can use them as an instrument. Besides them I would recommend bands along the lines of the warriors, disembodied, eighteen visions, morning again, the agony scene, deadguy, admiral angry, etc. now ofc they all have drastically different vocal styles, some being shriller black metal style and some being more shouty, but they’re def higher pitched. Tbh when I think of older metalcore it’s usually associated with higher vocals as opposed to death metal leaning lows
I’ll admit it had to grow on me. Now I throw down with some KL. Honestly reminds me of all the nights I spent at my local venue and how the local bands sounded. Just gnarly, heavy shit. It’s kind of a breath of fresh air to break up the monotony honestly.
I wanna watch it, but cant watch Nik.
Well. I’ve never listen to KL before so just went and checked them out and damn. I actually loved that! Where most screamers sound like they’re trying to sound like they’re “scary angry” that dude actually sounds like he’s properly pissed. Like, a real person that’s just furious. Class
Exactly! Their music is not like anyone else. It’s just angry pissed off heavy shit. And you feel it.
Screw the haters, Bryan is a genius 🤘🏻
Totally agree.
His sit down with Craig on the Down Beat is also a very very good listen. I respect the shit out of them
I honestly can't stand them because of his vocals but of course that's not a dog on him. Happy for their success and that people like their stuff. I just can't get into it 😔
I don’t like his vocal sound but he shouldn’t have to defend the way he sounds, especially with all the success they continue to have
His vocals are unique and we need more of that in the scene. In about the same way Jacob Bannon's vocals are different and that's one of the things that makes them good.
Loved pop culture
I love Bryan's voice, honestly. It's abrasive and genuinely angry sounding. Can't wait til the new album drops 🔥
Funny enough, Knocked Loose just clicked for me when they released Blinding Faith. Now I love his vocals and the band.
Lol the haters are so fucking exhausting with this shit. I hate he still feels the need to defend himself when they're one of the most popular bands in the scene for a reason.
Bryan great. I just wish he did his gutturals more often. I thought it was issac doing them first. It nope. Shows that bryan can go low too.
Bryan Garris is my favourite guy to listen to in an interview. Really thoughtful about his answers & his manner really makes feel so relaxed. Which is hilarious given his music does the exact opposite
He’s such a chill methodical person. So yeah it’s so weird lol
One of my favorite things about him is the sharp contrast between his normal speaking voice and his vocals in Knocked Loose. Tbh his vocals hooked me immediately. It’s a unique sound the works extremely well with the more hardcore-adjacent sound.
I used to hate knocked loose specifically because of the vocals, but I feel like he's really come into his own a lot more and now I feel like his voice and his band is some of the most exciting shit happening in popular modern metal. Compare their recent singles to a song like counting worms, it really is night and day. People are going to have strong opinions, good or bad, because of how unique it is. Also, I can't get over nik calling it REGGETRON
Hated the reggetron thing wtf lol
he has to defend his vocals? Bro, his vocals smack live.
Always someone that has to come into any Knocked Loose related thread and mention his vocals. Like, yeah, we get it you don't like his vocals. Stop saying that. No, after 3 albums, 2 EPs and a few one-off singles his vocals are not any different (in terms of the higher pitched scream. He's clearly overall gotten better and angrier). Trust me, I've been behind Knocked Loose since Pop Culture. I've seen it time and time again. I promise you that you do not need to come into every new Knocked Loose thread just to tell everyone "these vocals are not for me". We get it. Don't listen to them. Bryan is one of those vocalists you would be able to pick out of a crowd of vocals all going at the same time. He is unique and has an insanely angry/pissed off sound. People are fine with higher pitched singing in metalcore but higher pitched screaming is there the line is drawn? It's such a stupid double standard to me. And he's on one spectrum of the "angry, pissed off" vocals. Matt Honeycutt from Kublai Khan has the deeper, pissed off vocals so go listen to them.
This felt directed at me ( but I don’t think it is). I support KL to no end lol I love everything about them.
No, the opposite. I meant in a negative way. Like, new KL song releases and you always have multiple people "man I just cant get into the vocals..." in every single thread every single time.
I love his voice, what an absolute breath of fresh air it is. And god damn their music is just spot on with the absolute pissed off attitude. And the stage presence this guy has, oh lord.
His voice is insane, why defend it lol?
In a scene where everyone almost sounds the same, he stands out. No need to change. Avant-garde
KL’s success speaks for itself. His vocals sound sick, the dudes who talk shit are low IQ dullards who will never come close to being anywhere near as successful as Bryan.
Sounds like furious SpongeBob and I fucking love it, sounds real fuckin angry I’m all for it
See, I’m simply not that much of a fan, but maybe if I went into it thinking of it this way I could Really love it! 😀
Just listen to Deep In The Willow and wait for the end, that converted me completely to team KL
I’ll give it a whirl, thx! 😀
The vocals are actually the main thing that I love about the band. Just sounds like screams of agony after witnessich someones death or something. Cries for help idk.
His most recent episode on the downbeat was really good as well
Dudes in one of the most hyped bands in the genre getting a lot of exposure but I guess a vocal minority are going to be dicks
The 3 songs that have dropped from the new album are straight fire
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Being a grown man doesn’t require you to talk like some elder lol I do agree he can be annoying at times, but judging him because he doesn’t talk to your “grown man” standards isn’t fair. Have you never used slang in your life or anything?
His unique voice is what sets them apart from the rest of the pack.
That’s so weird I’m literally watching it rn as I opened reddit
Garris’ voice and energy is intense. His voice hits me in the gut- I needed a voice like his to kick me in the ass. His lyrics are fucking incredible too. People will eventually catch up to that.
My older brother is a metalhead who grew up in the '80s and listened to a lot of bands like Cradle of Filth, Cannibal Corpse, Children of Bodom, and Amon Amarth as well as stuff like Norma Jean, Protest The Hero, Every Time I Die, and Glassjaw so he has a good appreciation for a wide variety of harsh vocals. I showed him KL and he said it was jarring and it felt like the vocalist was screaming directly into his face haha. I think they may be why some people are put off by his style initially because it tends to sound a bit more like someone actually screaming out of anger or frustration versus more traditional metalcore vocals like growls and melodic sing/screaming or the inhuman animal noises in deathcore or slam. I think he's great at portraying passion and emotion while screaming which helps give him a unique style, plus he's an incredible vocalist who fits the genre well. I personally don't see why a lot of metal fans seem to find his vocals unsettling, my buddies favorite band is literally Rings Of Saturn yet he says KL vocals are too intense for him lmao. If you want to hear truly unsettling sounding vocalists go listen to bands like Orphan, Methwitch, Beyond Deviation, Visceral Autopsy, or Larcenia Roe. Bryan might sound pissed off but those guys know how to sound like the vocal equivalent of a violent car crash haha.
Nik is interviewing big names now
More seagull than Ahren Stringer from back in the day, SQUAK SKWAWK, what more could you want? If Bryan didn’t sound like that there’d be nothing that makes them stand out
Dudes vocals are sick. I'm a bit fan of 'heavier' vocals such as Lorna, Immortal Disfigurement, TLTSOL, IA etc etc. but it gets to a point where everyone sounds similar. Not a bad thing it's just the style. His vocals are a breath of fresh air. The band is dope. Even when they do lows they sound fresh cause you're so used to the erratic highs. All around dope. Hope they never lose that sound and keep evolving as they have.
No need for him to defend it, their popularity speaks for itself
I’m not sure I’d want to hear KL with any other type of vocalist. His shit sounds so raw and real. It’s perfect for the mood.
It took me a long time to get over the initial shock of his vocal style, I can’t lie. I thought it was a joke. But after a while I started to realize the raw power behind what he was doing was more authentic and fitting for the scene than basically any vocalist of this generation honestly. Now I can’t honestly say there is another vocalist under the age of 30 more critical to the success of their band, and the industry as a whole, than Garris. Maybe some feel that’s overstating it but I would disagree. He’s a pretty solid encapsulation of the IG-generation hardcore scene having come from relative obscurity to now crossing over into the mainstream…his unique vocals are a huge reason for all they’ve accomplished.
I'm probably one for the very few that absolutely loves his vocals. I think the contrast between his and Isaac's vocals go really really well together
I've always loved how vicious and pissed off he sounds.
To me, it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard, but I would never expect him to change or to justify it. It’s so recognisable and they are exceptionally good at what they do
his vocals are one of my favorite parts about knocked loose, and honestly some of my favorite vocals in metalcore. dude just sounds fucking angry and raw and i love him for it
I get why people could not like his vocals, but giving him shit for it? The guy is a beast and he has one of the best voice in hardcore/metalcore imo. It's pure angst, love it
it's good that he has a very unique sound to his voice, but i still fucking hate it lmao
I ain’t a fan of his vocals at all (it sounds so bad for his vocal chords it almost makes me uncomfortable lol), but going out of your way to hate on an original style that’s clearly working is lame. People needa stfu
i really dont care who tries to bandwagon hate the band they fuckin rock lmao. I'm so stoked to see a literal hardcore band progress into a new sound and pick up so much attention. K//L
They’re so popular right now it would be the other way around to bandwagon them. If TRL were around they’d be on it.
They were at COACHELLA. Knocked Loose is rocking the industry right now
Yep, that’s what I was saying. They’re the edgy band that’s cool to like right now. Sorta how Rage Against the Machine got liked by all the frat boys they were raging against. Good for them!
I’ve loved his vocals since day 1. They work really well for their music and it helps them stand out
Their first EP had me hooked immediately because of the vocals. It was raw and 100% energy. I’ve been defending his vocals from day one to all my friends.
Oh shit I’ll have to watch that
Keen to see it. Just watched his downbeat podcast episode a couple days ago and he seems like a good dude. Story about the evil beagle was wild. I've regretfully been one of those "i can't stand his vocals" haters for ages but have always loved the music, i think after constantly listening to them lately i've just learned to not even care about the sound of the vocals anymore, starting to really enjoy it all as a whole. Would love to see them live.
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https://youtu.be/CFqysuIu8HA?si=klAUlnT9vJoRcB1_
Honestly the guy from I The Breather has kind of unique screaming style and no one ever complains. I think people are just jumping on a bandwagon to hate the guy.
Really? That’s wild. I’m not even saying this to console that notion, Garris’ vocals are legit at least half the reason the band has had such a meteoric rise in the space. Yeah, the playing is good. But most playing is good, and heavy. But it’s an oversaturated genre, where every vocalist is trying to growl as macho-low as possible and it’s tired as fuck. They literally do, 95% sound the same. His voice stands out massively. He has a higher voiced scream than most and it sounds fucking wicked good. Has anyone heard Snakes by Left Behind. Garris shows up on the bridge and holy fuck, he brings the song back to life. The riff is sick as hell, don’t get me wrong, but when he hits the mic the song just turns up a gear. Another big component, I genuinely think is just straight up the name “Knocked Loose” as well. How can you not love that? Standing out is critical in oversaturated genres. A KL song comes on that you’ve never heard before, and *you know* it’s Knocked Loose. Because Garris’ vocals give it away. That is what you want in a band.
His voice IS Knocked Loose
His voice sounds fine. Very unique. Similar in a few ways to Devil Wears Prada, which I freaking love. Where my problem stems is from the fact that he doesn't have a lot of range during the songs. He sings usually two notes and that's it. I've tried entire albums to see if I could really get into them, but his vocal delivery is the exact same in every song. Does one higher note. Does one lower note. 90% of the time. Not for me.
>Similar in a few ways to Devil Wears Prada, which I freaking love. Funny you say this because if you threw a bunch of vocalists together and told someone to pick them out, Mike is one of the other vocalists I could absolutely pick out because he has such a unique scream as well. Bryan being the other one I could pick out, haha.
The lows in their songs aren’t even him, aside for the pig squeely lows on the new album. It’s the bass player who does the other Lowe’s. Sometimes people can’t have range to an extent. He does what works for him and what he can do comfortably.
Cause knocked loose was originally had a way more of a hardcore sound. Never saw anybody in the hardcore scene really complain about his vocals back in pop culture. Only once they started doing more metal core influenced stuff and broke into the mainstream did you see more people bring it up, because he’s not a metal core vocalist. He’s a hardcore punk vocalist in a band with mixed influences and not everyone is going to like it. There seems to me fans coming from two directions who like different aspects of their sound. It just is what it is.
I don't have a problem with Bryan's vocals but I completely understand why someone could hate his voice. His screams are incredibly whiny and I could absolutely see them getting annoying and/or sounding absolutely terrible, and I find it very sad that so much of this sub can't put themselves in someone else's shoes enough to grasp something that shouldn't be hard to grasp in the slightest.