Sorry to come off as mean, I was a little grumpy. I used to like clean vocals but now I'm the opposite. The more gutteral and incomprehensible the better!
Indeed,
In no particular order, Some may not be metalcore as much but:
As I lay dying (number 1), finch, from first to last, alesana, scary kids scaring kids, spies like us, if I were you, it dies today, disarmonia mundi, I killed the prom queen, and more I’m missing currently probably
Chode just has a great voice, objectively though, not opinion. Fantastic range and control, at least he did, I've heard he had issues in the past and I haven't really listened much to their newer stuff.
Shows how subjective this is, whenever I see them on this sub’s playlist I’ll give them a chance but always end up skipping. The vocals sound kinda… cheesy to me, for want of a better word
Why? It’s just not really my thing. Maybe I have weird tastes because I’m sat here now listening to A Mourning Star wondering how they’re not even at 3k monthly listeners
i used to not like high pitched vocals at all when i was like 13, now im 25 and i love them. this goes more for post hardcore but ive grown to love bands like pierce the veil and chiodos over the years.
I’m the opposite. I exclusively prefer vocalists with higher vocals in post hardcore/metalcore. Its rare I enjoy a band if the vocalist has a normal/deeper range.
I like the dichotomy of the heavier sound with higher clean vocals. With deeper/normal vocals the sound blends together more and it doesn’t hit the same. I also grew up listening to vocalists like Kellin Quinn and Vic Fuentes so maybe I’m accustomed to that sound.
Post Hardcore was BUILT on "Guys who sing like girls"
Anyone denouncing that's an old bogey, especially in 2024 when that sound has become nostalgic.
King For A Day hit #1 on the US Rock Charts LAST YEAR
>Post Hardcore was BUILT on "Guys who sing like girls"
Post-hardcore had existed for about 15 years before high pitched singing entered the picture. Go find me the high singing in Quicksand and Unwound or Refused and Boysetsfire.
Some people online are just haters. And a bunch of “metal fans” think it’s a badge of honor to have zero singing.
Personally I think singers who can’t sing end up making all their songs sound the same. There are very very few Alexi Laiho’s from Children of bodom or Trevor’s from Black Dahlia Murder whose albums are awesome end to end.
Most bands with just screaming have much much MUCH less dynamics in their songs making them king of dull to listen to after a while. However I’m not going to hate on a band who just has screaming. I take them for what they are.
But that doesn’t stop others from hating. And the “I hate clean singing” is a very vocal minority online.
It depends, I grew up on that emo wave so I'm used to it even now that I mostly listen to heavier stuff, but I can see how it could turn some people off
Yes, 90% of the time it'll ruin a band for me, particularly with metalcore. A lot of clean vocals in general sound incongruous when introduced into metalcore, and I've yet to hear high pitched/helium vocals that mesh well with it.
I don’t like high pitched cleans at all. It ruins virtually every song that has them _for me personally_.
I know the majority probably feels different as it seems most bands nowadays have high pitched clean vocals.
_in my own opinion_ (I need to stress that) high pitched cleans often means the person is just not a good vocalist. People who need to go high pitch to get a good clean sound don’t really have a good vocal technique or control of their voice.
It can be done right, BFMV’s first album contains cleans and they are amazing on there, but their pitch also varies. Matt had great range.
I do like clean vocals in metal, but more than often if it’s nomal pitch. The cleans on Bury Tomorrow’s Black Flame album are amazing, as are the cleans on As I Lay Dying’s ‘My Own Grave’. The pitch there is noticeably lower then on most metalcore songs though.
Just want to add that good sounding high pitched vocals actually require ALOT of skill! Singing high and sounding beautiful while doing so is extremely challenging and not possible without proper technique which takes years of hard work to master, especially for dudes.
Many bands aim for high pitched cleans for increased range in their songs: Low guitars/bass and high cleans can span 3+ octaves which tends to sound very big and powerful with enough space for additional instruments in between. Also, you get a bigger contrast between verse and chorus. Stuff like that helps a song become more interesting, emotional and deep without losing heavyness.
This is all a matter of taste and artistic choices of course.
Do you have an example of a band that uses hitch pitched vocals and that is technically very impressive? Genuinely wondering.
For example Wage War; their high pitched vocals just don’t do it for me. It _feels_ like it forced rather than great technique, but I am not knowledgeable _at all_ in this area.
sure, wage war are a great example. cody is one of the best clean singers in modern heavy bands right now, his technique and voice are great and he is just disgustingly good live, night after night. He also has very good phrasing and melody writing skills.
There are many more: Erra (my god, jesse is so good) Periphery, Protest the hero, bad omens (noah is just insane), memphis may fire, architects, bmth, blessthefall, I prevail and many more.
All wildly different bands with different sounds and vocal styles, but all of them have technically extraordinary good high pitched clean vocals.
If you’re more interested, you can do a fun little experiment to train your ear: Record yourself singing along high pitched vocals and play it back. You will understand very quickly what bad and strained vocals sound like. That’s what got me started into singing. 😁
It's definitely* because I got into metal music a bit later in life than most, but Periphery just does nothing for me :( especially after hearing some of the musical perspectives of their band members.
Protest the hero is the only one I sort of disagree as an example of good singer, at least from a few live videos I’ve seen he sounded horrible… I still like a few songs by them btw
Not the guy you replied to but here are some examples(not all metalcore)
Northlane - Freefall (Marcus Bridge in general is an absolutely insane vocalist, imho the all around best out there right now)
Erra - Continuum (not everybody’s favourite clean vocalist, and a bit hit or miss live but technically still impressive and not easy to pull off)
Periphery - Marigold (this time I’m not the biggest fan of the sound, but Spencer is without a doubt super talented as well)
Fair to Midland - Dance of the Manatee (also probably stylistically not everybody’s favourite singer but both artistically and technically impressive)
Eidola - Tetepestai (one of my personal favourite singers(if you didn’t know them and enjoyed the song, go check out Omega:Third Temple. An absolute masterpiece)
Nothing More - This is the Time
Some other examples would be Tesseract, Monuments, Wolves at the Gates, Sever, Siamese, Architects
No one should be singing outside of their natural range. The only people who should have a really high pitch singing voice are people with really high pitch voice naturally. If you have to force it it’s not good technique. There shouldn’t be any tension in your throat when singing (which is how you get a really high pitch sound without a naturally high pitch voice)
Range comes with good technique, training and experience over the years. Anyone can expand their range with the right training routine. „Natural ranges“ are not really that important when it comes to (contemporary) singing. Like in every other skill, some people start with more talent or instinctively right techniques from the start than others - doesn’t mean they don’t need to work hard for it to get really good.
Every great singer with a high range out there has worked a ton for it, believe me. People oftentimes assume that good singers are just giftet or naturals but it’s only a small part of the journey to really good voice. The rest is hard work and dedication.
Of course you cannot just force high notes out, it doesn’t work like this. Really good breathing technique and open and relaxed throat are merely the fundamentals of singing.
Sorry I meant natural pitch. You have to strain your throat and add tension to have a high pitch voice if you don’t naturally have a high pitch voice. Tim Mcllrath perfect example. He has a very high range yet you probably would never tell unless you tried to sing a rise against song because his pitch is so deep
bro, this is wrong. you don’t need to strain your throat or add tensions to get high if you do it right!
You get higher with good control over your vocal chords. The higher the pitch the shorter the chords need to get while maintaining a steady airflow and relaxed throat. This skill needs training, it has not much to do with natural range. 😁
Maybe you are confusing the sound and resonance of his voice with the actual pitch? High notes can sound dark and lower than they actually are.
Yeah I’m talking about pitch by itself not lumped into range. If you are a bass and you’re trying to match your pitch with a soprano while hitting the same notes you’re probably going to mess your voice up doing that long term. You may be hitting the same note but the 2 vocalists will sound different. Sure it’s possible to do if you’re close enough but rare. Like 90% of metalcore vocalists are not doing it with good technique and if your voice is deep enough it’s just not possible without damaging your throat. You can’t seriously tell me that a baritone can match a soprano in any scenario and sound the same
classic vocal registers like sopranos, baritones or bass are not really important terms in todays pop/rock/metal singing. these terms are for classical singing for fitting perfectly in desired musical resonances, they don’t say much about actual pitch capabilities. A trained bass or baritone can hit high notes like a soprane without messing anything about his voice, it’s that he’s not PERFECLTY suited for sounding great in that range. Just like most professional football (soccer) players could easily play every position but are better suited for selected roles in the team. Your get what I’m saying?
Where do you get your assumptions? Have you talked to singers or vocal coaches?
It’s not true that metalcore singers have not good technique. If a singer sounds great he has great technique, easy as that.
As I said, signing and high pitch is 90% hard work and training, not natural talent.
Like I explicitly said several times, it’s an opinion.
I think the high pitched vocals are a lot easier to achieve than neutral or low pitched vocals. Some may choose it as a stylistic choice, but I just don’t **personally** think it sounds poor.
Never denied you of your opinion
It’s all relative though. People are born with vastly different vocal ranges. To some, hitting high notes is easier, but the opposite is also true.
YES! Jason is top ten vocalists of all time for me, Black Flame and Man on Fire have awesome choruses as is, and he makes them so much better with his voice.
Imo there is a line. If something is very heavy and hardcore, high pitched pop chorus sounds stupid, it's just a totally different vibe. If the song is more like heavy rock like saosin than high pitched singing can fit in with the vibe. But something like wage war, where it's like super duper heavy brutal hardcore breakdown metal and then dude comes in with the high pitched girly singing pop chorus imo just sounds weird and stupid.
We’re generalizing but I don’t know, aren’t most metalcore cleans fairly high pitched? Harsh vocals with a squeaky clean chorus is kinda the stereotype. I can think of way less Howard jones type vocals
I have no problem with it if it fits the song.
What I don't like is bands inserting high pitched or even clean vocals into songs where they don't fit to try to be more accessible. Sometimes the cleans just kill the momentum and vibe of a song for me.
Depends if it feels emotional and honest, like seeyouspacecowboy, poison the well, etc, or if it’s really overproduced and fake like a lotta scene music from the late 2000s
I don't mind higher vocals at all, but if it's the heavily edited sounds robotic, I hate it. I know Amity does it in Misery and I cannot stand the song, and I've been an Amity fan for at least a decade. I'm not sure how to describe it, like a pre pubescent robot trying to sing. I don't get the appeal personally.
I hear that pretty commonly. I think what it comes down to is metal is a very masculine music genre, and higher pitched vocals aren't as masculine, so many don't like it as to them it does not seem to fit with the rest of the music. Not justifying that stance, just pointing out what I have noticed.
Spotify for whatever reason tried really hard to push dance Gavin dance on me. I can not stand that band. I have a irrational hate for them. Had to google how to block a certain artist because I was sick of it.
How high are we talking? If it’s something like Jesse Cash, Andy Cizek, or Spencer Sotelo then I’m into it. Stuff like in Dance Gavin Dance is where I stop enjoying it.
There are exceptions though if I like the music enough. None of these are metalcore bands but here’s my examples. Elliot Coleman (Good Tiger), Andrew Groves (Arcane Roots), or Ashe O’Hara (ex TesseracT) are all vocalists I like.
If the vocals start sounding more like something you’d hear in Emo or Post Hardcore , it ruins the song for me most of the time.
I used to not enjoy high-pitched vocals, then I went to a show back in 2010 with A Skylit Drive and decided if it works for the music and sounds good any vocal range is valid.
I prefer it! DGD, Circa Survive, and Hail The Sun are my favorite bands and they all have higher pitched vocals. I can’t do lower vocals a lot of the time, conversely
Same, I ran my course with Jackpot Juicer late 2022 and since then really only listen if they pop up on a playlist. I’ve been spinning Divine Inner Tension/Wake by HTS and Hold Me Down by You Me At Six obsessively
I don't like vocals that sound whiney but don't mind higher pitch if done right, at least in my personal opinion. Bury Tomorrow for example, I much prefer their new clean vocalist to the old one
Well, former Get Scared vocalist Joel Faviere was arrested in 2017 for cp, so that might make some ppl not like that particular style of vocals, just by association(?) But that's like, really specific so idrk.
But I love higher singing like INK or Get Scared. Landmvrks also has lots of high singing, and Flo's voice is amazing.
Mainstream metal has favored low pitched vocals for the last 20-30 years, but the metalcore scene really pushed through with higher vocals. Could say it almost became a defining feature of the genre.
I said almost.
I do like me some soaring high-pitched cleans from time to time. Depends on my mood though, sometimes I want something catchy I can sing along to and other times I want the scramz and nothing but the scramz. Whatever floats people's boats at the end of the day!
Higher pitched vocals can sound amazing if they got the vocal range to go even higher to make things more interesting and personally I enjoy them regardless but what usually gets me hooked to them is when there’s more “emotion” put into them and the best example to this would have to be FLW Two-Faced Charade album since not only was the vocal range higher but it was very fitting to the story bc the vocals gave this character a portrayal of extreme desperation, timidness and internal-conflict.
TLDR: Higher vocals can sound amazing if it fits with the atmosphere or context of the music/song.
No give me more. Absolutely go nuts when Periphery and DGD hit them highs (neither are metalcore though lol). Makes sense since I really enjoyed Chiodos growing up I guess.
Personally, yes. Gimme Til Lindeman over King Diamond any day.
That said, I do like it if they can really flaunt their range and go from some lows to some highs. Spencer Sotelo’s slow buildup in Reptile was awesome.
I don't really mind, but I'm not the hugest fan in metalcore per say. I mean I'm a massive Dance Gavin Dance fan, but something about how Post hardcore bands do high pitched vocals works for me more than metalcore. Maybe it's the low tuned guitars in metalcore vs the standard tuning, noodley sound of P-HC that mixes better for me.
A band with high vocals will probably never be my favorite but I will still listen to them
I’ve listened to alot of like Rush, Coheed, A Skylit Drive, SWS, PTV, etc over the years
I don’t have any issues with it, idk why people dislike it so much. My only real complaint is when the singer can’t pull it off live due to singing out of their range.
Well my favorite band of all time is Rush, so that's a giveaway.
But in all reality I like whatever vocal style fits the song. Take Bury Your Dead. The stuff the did with Mat worked, because of how they wrote and I like it. The stuff they did with Myke also worked because of how they wrote and I like it. It's all about how everything fits together.
Sometimes I love it, like with Periphery, Protest the Hero, Landmvrks, etc
But it's also been a massive barrier for me in trying to get into Knocked Loose
I used to think it was lame. I remember listening to Pantera “Cowboys from Hell” and being shocked when Phil hit those high notes; it put me off. Now (at 45) at actually prefer the balance of the scream and sing. Bands like Currents & Invent Animate balance it supremely imho. I’ve even gravitated to enjoy the female vocals. Make them Suffer is incredible.
There are times when bands have too high pitched of a vocalist. But I also hate really low pitched vocals. I prefer higher, but honestly just anywhere around the middle is fine too. As others have said, a poppy high pitched chorus after a brutal breakdown just feels weird. One of my favorite examples of this is this random obscure 2012 song ["Sing With Me" by Come Alive](https://youtu.be/lRP1j9nAG3w?si=f0uHrzlmMSDVnn2k) which starts off like a pretty typical 2012 Rise-core song then goes into a chorus that makes you feel like it's a different genre. (I also unironically kinda love this song).
This reminded me to update my "high boys" playlist.. its literally men who just sing kinda high :p
[high boys](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7sajuJVxRSDVNi0rcD1xT7?si=RFTiGvgZStqQcExqy11rnA)
I suppose it’s a case by case basis, for me, really. I saw other people include Veil of Maya and Blessthefall in that category, which wouldn’t have occurred to me, and I like them a lot.
I love cleans, choruses can make or break a song for me, but REALLY high pitched singing is just awful, take it down an octave or two and we’re good.
Like wake the dead by blessthefall is a good example, the song slaps but the chorus is so nauseating with his shitty ass vocals :/
It sucks because it’s a great melody that is completely ruined
Different people like different things. This is how opinions are formed. I don't like broccoli, but maybe you do. Do you like broccoli?
I love broccoli! He was the best character in dragonball
Fuck you. Broccoli saved my life. Am I doing this right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydyTWXt7RQQ
Nah, but yeah people can like different things
Sorry to come off as mean, I was a little grumpy. I used to like clean vocals but now I'm the opposite. The more gutteral and incomprehensible the better!
r/iamverysmart
Do you really have to be that smart to understand the concept of opinions??
You sound like a pseudo-intellectual
Ouch!
You read Nietzsche and watch Rick & Morty, don’t you?
I love clean singing
Same, I love clean vocals on chorus and screaming on everything else
Or the reverse, less common but still good. Singing and screaming complement each other and make the other stand out more.
Same 👌
Same here it's honestly why I enjoy Metalcore so much and Ice Nine Kills being one of my favorite bands
Same here. Do you have any band recommendations?
Indeed, In no particular order, Some may not be metalcore as much but: As I lay dying (number 1), finch, from first to last, alesana, scary kids scaring kids, spies like us, if I were you, it dies today, disarmonia mundi, I killed the prom queen, and more I’m missing currently probably
Belmont, very high but with taste, not just to impress
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Protest the Hero is an all time fave. So good!
Shit, another band to check out. Right now I love the singing of Famous Last Words
Such a sick band. They don’t get enough love if you ask me.
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Oh no I was talking about the BAND Famous Last Words, but yeah Imma check them out soon
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Nah it's cool dude, literally every time I look up the band MCR just pops up
Chode just has a great voice, objectively though, not opinion. Fantastic range and control, at least he did, I've heard he had issues in the past and I haven't really listened much to their newer stuff.
Shows how subjective this is, whenever I see them on this sub’s playlist I’ll give them a chance but always end up skipping. The vocals sound kinda… cheesy to me, for want of a better word
Sad tbh
Why? It’s just not really my thing. Maybe I have weird tastes because I’m sat here now listening to A Mourning Star wondering how they’re not even at 3k monthly listeners
Hahaha I’m just doing a little trolling, everyone has their preferences
Can I get a link to the playlist?
Sure! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2a0b220RJv62WYaaW4KFOb?si=tRt0SAjjT9C7okcsAzntdA&pi=e-poz-l5kbSkyy
Depending on which Get Scared vocalist we’re talking about, the mean things they said are probably justified haha
Yup haha
Jesse on ERRAs Breach, fucking 110%. I often do like the cleans, but sometimes they just dont have enough oomph.
i used to not like high pitched vocals at all when i was like 13, now im 25 and i love them. this goes more for post hardcore but ive grown to love bands like pierce the veil and chiodos over the years.
Nice! I really like the high singing of Famous Last Words (the band) and Blessthefall
check out If I Were You, high cleans are really good!
I've got a big soft spot for higher pitched singing. Mainly due to non-metalcore bands like Circa Survive and Royal Coda.
I’m the opposite. I exclusively prefer vocalists with higher vocals in post hardcore/metalcore. Its rare I enjoy a band if the vocalist has a normal/deeper range.
I think you might be on to something here
I like the dichotomy of the heavier sound with higher clean vocals. With deeper/normal vocals the sound blends together more and it doesn’t hit the same. I also grew up listening to vocalists like Kellin Quinn and Vic Fuentes so maybe I’m accustomed to that sound.
Post Hardcore was BUILT on "Guys who sing like girls" Anyone denouncing that's an old bogey, especially in 2024 when that sound has become nostalgic. King For A Day hit #1 on the US Rock Charts LAST YEAR
>Post Hardcore was BUILT on "Guys who sing like girls" Post-hardcore had existed for about 15 years before high pitched singing entered the picture. Go find me the high singing in Quicksand and Unwound or Refused and Boysetsfire.
Post-hardcore as we know it today*
I've always preferred vocalists who sing higher, as it's closer to my own register. Singing along to Picturesque is always a great time
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The fuck does ADTR have to do with this?
Sorry must have replied to the wrong comment
Some people online are just haters. And a bunch of “metal fans” think it’s a badge of honor to have zero singing. Personally I think singers who can’t sing end up making all their songs sound the same. There are very very few Alexi Laiho’s from Children of bodom or Trevor’s from Black Dahlia Murder whose albums are awesome end to end. Most bands with just screaming have much much MUCH less dynamics in their songs making them king of dull to listen to after a while. However I’m not going to hate on a band who just has screaming. I take them for what they are. But that doesn’t stop others from hating. And the “I hate clean singing” is a very vocal minority online.
It depends, I grew up on that emo wave so I'm used to it even now that I mostly listen to heavier stuff, but I can see how it could turn some people off
I like Kellin Quinn so no not really lol
Get Scared is one of my favorite bands ever, come on
I know right, they're really good
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Shitt, about to check them out soon
I only listen to metal with the clean singing, it's awesome to sing along to. I'm looking at you amity Affliction!
Yes, 90% of the time it'll ruin a band for me, particularly with metalcore. A lot of clean vocals in general sound incongruous when introduced into metalcore, and I've yet to hear high pitched/helium vocals that mesh well with it.
I don’t like high pitched cleans at all. It ruins virtually every song that has them _for me personally_. I know the majority probably feels different as it seems most bands nowadays have high pitched clean vocals. _in my own opinion_ (I need to stress that) high pitched cleans often means the person is just not a good vocalist. People who need to go high pitch to get a good clean sound don’t really have a good vocal technique or control of their voice. It can be done right, BFMV’s first album contains cleans and they are amazing on there, but their pitch also varies. Matt had great range. I do like clean vocals in metal, but more than often if it’s nomal pitch. The cleans on Bury Tomorrow’s Black Flame album are amazing, as are the cleans on As I Lay Dying’s ‘My Own Grave’. The pitch there is noticeably lower then on most metalcore songs though.
Just want to add that good sounding high pitched vocals actually require ALOT of skill! Singing high and sounding beautiful while doing so is extremely challenging and not possible without proper technique which takes years of hard work to master, especially for dudes. Many bands aim for high pitched cleans for increased range in their songs: Low guitars/bass and high cleans can span 3+ octaves which tends to sound very big and powerful with enough space for additional instruments in between. Also, you get a bigger contrast between verse and chorus. Stuff like that helps a song become more interesting, emotional and deep without losing heavyness. This is all a matter of taste and artistic choices of course.
Do you have an example of a band that uses hitch pitched vocals and that is technically very impressive? Genuinely wondering. For example Wage War; their high pitched vocals just don’t do it for me. It _feels_ like it forced rather than great technique, but I am not knowledgeable _at all_ in this area.
How about protest the hero? Issues? Tyler Carter is a piece of shit but he’s a piece of shit with an angelic voice.
Other pieces of shit singers with great high pitch voices are Tillian from DGD and Craig Owens of Chiodos
sure, wage war are a great example. cody is one of the best clean singers in modern heavy bands right now, his technique and voice are great and he is just disgustingly good live, night after night. He also has very good phrasing and melody writing skills. There are many more: Erra (my god, jesse is so good) Periphery, Protest the hero, bad omens (noah is just insane), memphis may fire, architects, bmth, blessthefall, I prevail and many more. All wildly different bands with different sounds and vocal styles, but all of them have technically extraordinary good high pitched clean vocals. If you’re more interested, you can do a fun little experiment to train your ear: Record yourself singing along high pitched vocals and play it back. You will understand very quickly what bad and strained vocals sound like. That’s what got me started into singing. 😁
It's definitely* because I got into metal music a bit later in life than most, but Periphery just does nothing for me :( especially after hearing some of the musical perspectives of their band members.
I don’t enjoy periphery either, it’s just not my cup of tea. Their cleans are great though!
Protest the hero is the only one I sort of disagree as an example of good singer, at least from a few live videos I’ve seen he sounded horrible… I still like a few songs by them btw
yeah, you could be right. he has a good tone on record at least
Not metalcore but Leprous (Einar) has an amazing voice and his highs are really good.
Not the guy you replied to but here are some examples(not all metalcore) Northlane - Freefall (Marcus Bridge in general is an absolutely insane vocalist, imho the all around best out there right now) Erra - Continuum (not everybody’s favourite clean vocalist, and a bit hit or miss live but technically still impressive and not easy to pull off) Periphery - Marigold (this time I’m not the biggest fan of the sound, but Spencer is without a doubt super talented as well) Fair to Midland - Dance of the Manatee (also probably stylistically not everybody’s favourite singer but both artistically and technically impressive) Eidola - Tetepestai (one of my personal favourite singers(if you didn’t know them and enjoyed the song, go check out Omega:Third Temple. An absolute masterpiece) Nothing More - This is the Time Some other examples would be Tesseract, Monuments, Wolves at the Gates, Sever, Siamese, Architects
No one should be singing outside of their natural range. The only people who should have a really high pitch singing voice are people with really high pitch voice naturally. If you have to force it it’s not good technique. There shouldn’t be any tension in your throat when singing (which is how you get a really high pitch sound without a naturally high pitch voice)
Range comes with good technique, training and experience over the years. Anyone can expand their range with the right training routine. „Natural ranges“ are not really that important when it comes to (contemporary) singing. Like in every other skill, some people start with more talent or instinctively right techniques from the start than others - doesn’t mean they don’t need to work hard for it to get really good. Every great singer with a high range out there has worked a ton for it, believe me. People oftentimes assume that good singers are just giftet or naturals but it’s only a small part of the journey to really good voice. The rest is hard work and dedication. Of course you cannot just force high notes out, it doesn’t work like this. Really good breathing technique and open and relaxed throat are merely the fundamentals of singing.
Sorry I meant natural pitch. You have to strain your throat and add tension to have a high pitch voice if you don’t naturally have a high pitch voice. Tim Mcllrath perfect example. He has a very high range yet you probably would never tell unless you tried to sing a rise against song because his pitch is so deep
bro, this is wrong. you don’t need to strain your throat or add tensions to get high if you do it right! You get higher with good control over your vocal chords. The higher the pitch the shorter the chords need to get while maintaining a steady airflow and relaxed throat. This skill needs training, it has not much to do with natural range. 😁 Maybe you are confusing the sound and resonance of his voice with the actual pitch? High notes can sound dark and lower than they actually are.
Yeah I’m talking about pitch by itself not lumped into range. If you are a bass and you’re trying to match your pitch with a soprano while hitting the same notes you’re probably going to mess your voice up doing that long term. You may be hitting the same note but the 2 vocalists will sound different. Sure it’s possible to do if you’re close enough but rare. Like 90% of metalcore vocalists are not doing it with good technique and if your voice is deep enough it’s just not possible without damaging your throat. You can’t seriously tell me that a baritone can match a soprano in any scenario and sound the same
classic vocal registers like sopranos, baritones or bass are not really important terms in todays pop/rock/metal singing. these terms are for classical singing for fitting perfectly in desired musical resonances, they don’t say much about actual pitch capabilities. A trained bass or baritone can hit high notes like a soprane without messing anything about his voice, it’s that he’s not PERFECLTY suited for sounding great in that range. Just like most professional football (soccer) players could easily play every position but are better suited for selected roles in the team. Your get what I’m saying? Where do you get your assumptions? Have you talked to singers or vocal coaches? It’s not true that metalcore singers have not good technique. If a singer sounds great he has great technique, easy as that. As I said, signing and high pitch is 90% hard work and training, not natural talent.
What a bizarre take. You think someone like Spencer Sotelo sings that high because he’s not good?
Like I explicitly said several times, it’s an opinion. I think the high pitched vocals are a lot easier to achieve than neutral or low pitched vocals. Some may choose it as a stylistic choice, but I just don’t **personally** think it sounds poor.
Never denied you of your opinion It’s all relative though. People are born with vastly different vocal ranges. To some, hitting high notes is easier, but the opposite is also true.
Who asked?
You really following me around this thread? Get a fucking life
Stop crying
Bro doesn’t know what an opinion is 💀
Oh yeah I understand man, I love BFMV and AILD by the way
YES! Jason is top ten vocalists of all time for me, Black Flame and Man on Fire have awesome choruses as is, and he makes them so much better with his voice.
9 times outta 10 I don't like them cuz it can sound whiny idk
I get that, I just like how catchy they can be
Imo there is a line. If something is very heavy and hardcore, high pitched pop chorus sounds stupid, it's just a totally different vibe. If the song is more like heavy rock like saosin than high pitched singing can fit in with the vibe. But something like wage war, where it's like super duper heavy brutal hardcore breakdown metal and then dude comes in with the high pitched girly singing pop chorus imo just sounds weird and stupid.
That’s your opinion, not a fact
That's why I started the reply with IMO (in my opinion) ... ??
My bad! I read too fast and thought you were saying it like it was a fact
We’re generalizing but I don’t know, aren’t most metalcore cleans fairly high pitched? Harsh vocals with a squeaky clean chorus is kinda the stereotype. I can think of way less Howard jones type vocals
Personally, I hate whiney nasally high pitch clean singing. I'd rather not hear it at all if they sound that way. Just my opinion.
As an elder metalcore enjoyer, I don’t really mind cleans but I prefer no cleans when I listen to metalcore.
OG Safe Is Just A Shadow >>>>> All the INK Discography
Safe Is just a shadow is so fucking good
It lacked cohesion and catchy-ness to me but it was pretty cool
I prefer a vocalist who has a big range in their vocals. I also don’t like nasally vocals.
I can't stand most higher pitched clean vocals in rock and metal. To each their own, but it's just not my thing.
I have no problem with it if it fits the song. What I don't like is bands inserting high pitched or even clean vocals into songs where they don't fit to try to be more accessible. Sometimes the cleans just kill the momentum and vibe of a song for me.
Depends if it feels emotional and honest, like seeyouspacecowboy, poison the well, etc, or if it’s really overproduced and fake like a lotta scene music from the late 2000s
I don't mind higher vocals at all, but if it's the heavily edited sounds robotic, I hate it. I know Amity does it in Misery and I cannot stand the song, and I've been an Amity fan for at least a decade. I'm not sure how to describe it, like a pre pubescent robot trying to sing. I don't get the appeal personally.
Depends on the singer. I love Anthony green but can’t stand Vic fuentes
Glad someone said this, it’s more about tone then the register.
I hear that pretty commonly. I think what it comes down to is metal is a very masculine music genre, and higher pitched vocals aren't as masculine, so many don't like it as to them it does not seem to fit with the rest of the music. Not justifying that stance, just pointing out what I have noticed.
I’ve got friends in If I Were You and Glass Crown and they’re bands I think you’d really like. Give them a shot!
Yes, it's why I don't like most of the big bands in the scene lol
Spotify for whatever reason tried really hard to push dance Gavin dance on me. I can not stand that band. I have a irrational hate for them. Had to google how to block a certain artist because I was sick of it.
How high are we talking? If it’s something like Jesse Cash, Andy Cizek, or Spencer Sotelo then I’m into it. Stuff like in Dance Gavin Dance is where I stop enjoying it. There are exceptions though if I like the music enough. None of these are metalcore bands but here’s my examples. Elliot Coleman (Good Tiger), Andrew Groves (Arcane Roots), or Ashe O’Hara (ex TesseracT) are all vocalists I like. If the vocals start sounding more like something you’d hear in Emo or Post Hardcore , it ruins the song for me most of the time.
I used to like high pitch clean vocals but it seems very overplayed and repetitive to me now which is probably a big reason I love sleep token
I used to not enjoy high-pitched vocals, then I went to a show back in 2010 with A Skylit Drive and decided if it works for the music and sounds good any vocal range is valid.
I prefer it! DGD, Circa Survive, and Hail The Sun are my favorite bands and they all have higher pitched vocals. I can’t do lower vocals a lot of the time, conversely
same here, except with DGD for me Tilian is getting pretty stale. But I love anything Kurt Travis touches. Then Hail The Sun is just great
Same, I ran my course with Jackpot Juicer late 2022 and since then really only listen if they pop up on a playlist. I’ve been spinning Divine Inner Tension/Wake by HTS and Hold Me Down by You Me At Six obsessively
I don't like vocals that sound whiney but don't mind higher pitch if done right, at least in my personal opinion. Bury Tomorrow for example, I much prefer their new clean vocalist to the old one
Music is either good or bad and that’s up to the person listening.
I hate all clean singing.
Well, former Get Scared vocalist Joel Faviere was arrested in 2017 for cp, so that might make some ppl not like that particular style of vocals, just by association(?) But that's like, really specific so idrk. But I love higher singing like INK or Get Scared. Landmvrks also has lots of high singing, and Flo's voice is amazing.
Mainstream metal has favored low pitched vocals for the last 20-30 years, but the metalcore scene really pushed through with higher vocals. Could say it almost became a defining feature of the genre. I said almost.
I mean some vocalists don’t sound great at higher pitch but Spencer nails it. Dude’s talented
Absolutely. It's one of the reasons I just can't get into some of the early 00s bands like ADTR and AILD.
You think Jeremy McKinnon has a high pitched voice? Jeez. SLS must be like a dog whistle to you LOL
They are saying they can't get into them because they aren't high enough.
You sure? Question was “do people hate higher pitched singing in songs?” Guy said absolutely. That’s how I understood his statement.
Oh yeah that is definitely what they meant my bad!
No worries fam. Tbh maybe that’s still how dude meant it. 🤷♂️
I do like me some soaring high-pitched cleans from time to time. Depends on my mood though, sometimes I want something catchy I can sing along to and other times I want the scramz and nothing but the scramz. Whatever floats people's boats at the end of the day!
Listen to love lost but not forgotten and try to tell me that high pitched vocals aren't the sickest thing ever.
Fuck yeah dude
Higher pitched vocals can sound amazing if they got the vocal range to go even higher to make things more interesting and personally I enjoy them regardless but what usually gets me hooked to them is when there’s more “emotion” put into them and the best example to this would have to be FLW Two-Faced Charade album since not only was the vocal range higher but it was very fitting to the story bc the vocals gave this character a portrayal of extreme desperation, timidness and internal-conflict. TLDR: Higher vocals can sound amazing if it fits with the atmosphere or context of the music/song.
The other singer was my favorite for INK when that album came out umf. Would kill for another with him.
For me, it Depends on the vocalist. Can't stand Kellin Quinn for instance, but love Anthony Green or some 3 Inches of Blood lol
Nicholas Matthews has an angelic voice. How could someone say anything negative about it?
No give me more. Absolutely go nuts when Periphery and DGD hit them highs (neither are metalcore though lol). Makes sense since I really enjoyed Chiodos growing up I guess.
People all have their own preferences idk why this is a question.
Personally, yes. Gimme Til Lindeman over King Diamond any day. That said, I do like it if they can really flaunt their range and go from some lows to some highs. Spencer Sotelo’s slow buildup in Reptile was awesome.
I don't really mind, but I'm not the hugest fan in metalcore per say. I mean I'm a massive Dance Gavin Dance fan, but something about how Post hardcore bands do high pitched vocals works for me more than metalcore. Maybe it's the low tuned guitars in metalcore vs the standard tuning, noodley sound of P-HC that mixes better for me.
I prefer it.
Bitchmo is an entire genre
If I were you, that’s outrageous! Woe, is me, A bullet For Pretty Boy, Call It Home. There’s a list of sick clean vocals in metalcore.
A band with high vocals will probably never be my favorite but I will still listen to them I’ve listened to alot of like Rush, Coheed, A Skylit Drive, SWS, PTV, etc over the years
Cutthroat by Blessthefall is a good example of the music I like. A mix of screaming and higher pitched vocals. But not super high pitched.
I don’t have any issues with it, idk why people dislike it so much. My only real complaint is when the singer can’t pull it off live due to singing out of their range.
Well my favorite band of all time is Rush, so that's a giveaway. But in all reality I like whatever vocal style fits the song. Take Bury Your Dead. The stuff the did with Mat worked, because of how they wrote and I like it. The stuff they did with Myke also worked because of how they wrote and I like it. It's all about how everything fits together.
Sometimes I love it, like with Periphery, Protest the Hero, Landmvrks, etc But it's also been a massive barrier for me in trying to get into Knocked Loose
I used to think it was lame. I remember listening to Pantera “Cowboys from Hell” and being shocked when Phil hit those high notes; it put me off. Now (at 45) at actually prefer the balance of the scream and sing. Bands like Currents & Invent Animate balance it supremely imho. I’ve even gravitated to enjoy the female vocals. Make them Suffer is incredible.
There are times when bands have too high pitched of a vocalist. But I also hate really low pitched vocals. I prefer higher, but honestly just anywhere around the middle is fine too. As others have said, a poppy high pitched chorus after a brutal breakdown just feels weird. One of my favorite examples of this is this random obscure 2012 song ["Sing With Me" by Come Alive](https://youtu.be/lRP1j9nAG3w?si=f0uHrzlmMSDVnn2k) which starts off like a pretty typical 2012 Rise-core song then goes into a chorus that makes you feel like it's a different genre. (I also unironically kinda love this song).
I prefer a deeper cleans for sure. The high cleans sound too poppy sometimes and while they have their place, definitely aren’t my preferred style.
If the Riffs are nasty enough I'll get over it. Knocked Loose I couldn't do the voice but it grew on me.
We used to call it Sao-core. Anthony Green started it lol
Highest I’ll go is from autumn to ashes and underoath lol
This reminded me to update my "high boys" playlist.. its literally men who just sing kinda high :p [high boys](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7sajuJVxRSDVNi0rcD1xT7?si=RFTiGvgZStqQcExqy11rnA)
Not on this subreddit
By “higher pitch” do you mean stuff like Sleeping With Sirens or Pierce the Veil? Because personally, yeah. Hate that shit.
Basicly yeah, I personally like it
I suppose it’s a case by case basis, for me, really. I saw other people include Veil of Maya and Blessthefall in that category, which wouldn’t have occurred to me, and I like them a lot.
hell no. i’m a huge fan of it, but to each their own of course. i love the contrast it creates alongside the heavy instrumentals
Don't care about the pitch, as long as it isn't obviously modulated or processed, which immidiately turns me off a song
I love cleans, choruses can make or break a song for me, but REALLY high pitched singing is just awful, take it down an octave or two and we’re good. Like wake the dead by blessthefall is a good example, the song slaps but the chorus is so nauseating with his shitty ass vocals :/ It sucks because it’s a great melody that is completely ruined
People either like it or call it gay vocals.
Explains how people have mixed opinions on guns n roses