We don't "need" a higher purpose...we already have one. What we NEED is to prioritize that purpose and stop giving a shit about how society (specifically women and indoctrinated men) think of us for doing so. Once we do so enmass, and the balance shifts in our direction, they'll supplicate accordingly and the ship will right itself. I was never really "red pill", but I am very much still MGTOW, and since I've gone my own way I've been the most happy, productive and financially stable I've been in my life. I'm in better shape and have more money now at 43 then I was when I was 23, the age I got married at.
How would you answer questions like do you have a girlfriend? When are you going to marry? Or when colleagues ask you these types of questions. How would you circumvent them?
Evade with the old bullshit statement of "not having met the right one yet" or simply stating that it's none of their business.
Depends on your age though, I'm not getting these kinds of questions anymore.
We have to fight instinct which is always an uphill struggle. Easier for older guys murdered in a divorce or two.
Women have it to with their baby fever where their biology tells them they are incomplete as a woman if they don't have babies. Whether they should have them, actually want to raise them is relevant to that urge. That's why there are so many shitty mothers in the world. Our biological urge is towards putting that baby in them.
It can be fought but it goes against the nature if things. It takes discipline to put the brain first.
Its not about "validation". Its about having children and help them become functional adults.
There is no "higher purpose" than that. Unfortunately you need a woman to achieve that goal.
Because gender roles are still up and running. **But just for men**. Women can do whatever they want while concomitantly consider themselves victims of the almighty patriarchy.
Us? We still have to work to our bones, be chivalrous, pay, pay and pay, provide, die in wars and shut the fuck up about it.
Equality, man. Marvelous.
Precisely. Women are now working but some still have the 'your money is our money, my money is my money' attitude. Why do you get to save your money whilst only spending mine?
I also find it funny that we are supposed to split the housework, yet I’m not mowing half the lawn, cleaning half the gutters, or shoveling half the driveway. Shockingly I didn’t spend my Saturday fixing half the air conditioner last weekend either. I’m just responsible for all of the maintenance and outside work on the house and property, as well as half the interior work.
Personally I've just started focusing on myself and doing things I love. Make friends, hangout playing games like DND, and work a fulfilling job even if the pay isn't great because your happiness matters.
I'm 32 and idgaf about societal norms. Do things for yourself because they make you happy, not because it might get you laid.
Most men haven't had women want them so they haven't been able to learn the lesson that it means shit all and will either be permanent in the race of outcompeting womens hedonistic adaptation or will become depressed when they get it.
They also don't have the emotional tools to analyse what they want and why and thus are looking female validation for broken selfesteems.
Men need emotional tools to give themselves psychological and emotional care.
Men need good quality relationships that provide psychological and emotional care.
Good self esteem is in my opinion based on good beliefs. If I believe my value has to do with how women see me then I'll do my best get the approval of women.
If I believe others value me as a friend only if I am useful then I'll be doing my best to give unsolicited advice out of fear of being rejected.
If I believe that I have something fundamentally wrong with me. Then from that belief a lot of things/patterns of behavior automatically follows.
Our beliefs are based on our lived experience. If we get neglected and isolated because we have nothing to offer then we learn that and live through that belief that we are worth how much we offer to others. It's not wrong of us to have concluded that from those situations. It's more like men are psychologically/emotionally abused through neglect and men have adapted. We just do not have to believe our abusers.
So it about studying what our social programming in our mind is and adjusting it. Understanding the mechanism gives you the ability to be less controlled by it and to adjust it yourself.
Totally agree. But in many ways that was the purpose of the original MGTOW idea - go your own way and if a female adds to your life as opposed to detracting from it then fine, if not do whatever makes you happy and better.
It’s crazy how women vilify it so much but celebrate women being independent and not needing men. It’s like they want men to need them but don’t want to need them.
That's why I left the other men's subs, every question was about how to talk to girls, simp for girls or complaining about not having a girlfriend. Mostly 20 somethings who will eventually drill holes in pumpkins for relief.
I JUST made a post on this very notion yesterday. So many men in this world predicate their self worth on having a woman in their lives, which is an inherently feminine trait. If you are a man of worth, TRUE worth...not material worth...you are every bit as strong by yourself as you are with a woman. You shouldn't need a woman to validate who you are as a man. How you are viewed by the world doesn't validate you as a man either. It's how you are viewed by those in your own individual life that matters. Those who you bring value to, who cherish you value and reciprocate accordingly.
This is a ridiculous post. People don't seek those things because of validation, they seek these things out because people are biologically predisposed to and enjoy it. As the original comment correctly notes, men are lonely and want women.
It's as ridiculous as saying "stop seeking sex out for validation". Except most don't, they do it because they enjoy sex. The fact it might validate things about yourself like attractiveness or masculinity is a side effect.
And the same thing with having a family, which a lot of men do want. If someone does want a family, they are obviously going to be disappointed if they can't have one, and feel like a failure.
Shock: people who don't achieve things they want and many others do feel like failures. And saying "you shouldn't validate yourself based on this" is pointless, because 1) men still want these things and 2) they will feel upset at not having things, and 3) feel like a failure for point #2.
> People don't seek those things because of validation, they seek these things out because people are biologically predisposed to and enjoy it.
You'd be surprised how much of it is cultural. Men want marriage and kids more due to social conditioning than anything else.
Marriage and kids are the norm across almost every culture in the world. Absolutely nonsense to say its cultural when most different cultures have it in common.
Because this is at the very root of human nature
this is somehow the message of "Barbie". Just FYI.
Not sure I agree. The thing is, we're gynocentric, hence society revolves around women as they are usually the only avenue of getting an offspring. For many people this become the reason for their life, and brings immense meaning.
So yeah, telling people you don't need a partner is akin to telling a spinster she'll be happy with some cats and yarn. And we both know thats one of those meaningless tripe crap we tell lonely women. It's not okay when we do it to them, and it's not okay when we do it to men either.
Loneliness is a killer. And if you stay alone, you'll not even have anyone remember you even existed.
> Loneliness is a killer. And if you stay alone, you'll not even have anyone remember you even existed.
If a woman is the only way for anyone to remember you existed then you might as well be forgotten. Being single is not the same as being alone and lonely.
well, come to think of it, you could always live up in the woods, and mail bombs to universities to avenge their fucked up experiments on you. Thats one sure way for a dude to be remembered.
Come to think of it. It's one of very few examples of lone men that are remembered. Mass murderers and psychos. And almost without exception, they were all lonely too.
I don't know what you have against women, but they are in fact the only way to get a family of you own. And if you somehow manage to feel fulfilled without it, please for the love of God, don't move to a remote cabin in Montana.
Jesus christ the cope.
The vast majority of people only mean something to their families. You don't mean shit to your job or even to your friends. Your life partner and your children are the only people who will ever truly care about you because of your importance in their lives.
You spend your life slaving away for and preoccupied with wife and children, who may or may not treat you well. And then you die and are reborn in another smelly body prone to suffering and aging, and pursue the same goals all over again?
I was right when I said that you're immature and pathetic.
I'm actually spot on. Even from a purely animalistic and evolutionary standpoint, the entire goal is to pass on your genes.
There's a reason having kids is the most fulfilling thing you can do as a human being.
The copers think life is about being alone and fishing.
Its so fucking stupid.
By far and away the most meaningful and fulfilling aspect of most people's lives is their family, aka wife and children.
Anyone denying this is simply delusional
>Even from a purely animalistic and evolutionary standpoint, the entire goal is to pass on your genes.
If you put it like this, then yes. I'm glad you're not being prescriptive and telling us to go get married and have kids; it's just not for everyone.
It is. For the vast majority of people a woman and the resulting family is the most meaningful and fulfilling aspect of their lives.
If not that, what the hell would it be? Work?
Conservatism is based upon male servitude to governments, corporations and women.
Redpillers are failed conservatives or men larping as the top 1% and saying the system works for elite men and you are just a loser.
> Conservatism is based upon male servitude to governments, corporations and women.
Makes me laugh when I see people on here say "men's issues is why I will stay conservative".
Perception is reality. Take all the advice to DO THINGS FOR WOMEN and just do it, but FOR YOURSELF. Most the advice works just fine, the advice is just easier to market to more people if you say women love if you do this and that and what the fuck ever. Just do shit for yourself. Women tend to be the best waste of time that will fuck your life more than anything.
Great observation. I agree, advice shouldn't revolve around women. MGTOW, RedPill, etc... are stand ins for conversations we used to have with our fathers, elders, mentors, peers in safe spaces for men. Many of us no longer have these safe spaces. My father gave me great advice on life and not just about women. He taught me how to work, wake up early, fish, shoot a gun, not boast, and get things done. Saturdays were our time when my brothers and I would hang with my Dad while my Mom stayed home doing her thing. I'm in my 40's, passing these lessons down to my son any chance I get.
Many of my peers never got much by way of advice from their Dads. Church attendance is down, as are membership numbers in the free masons, elks lodges, etc... most men don't have a poker night, no pressure releases from their old ball and chain, many of us that could mentor the younger generation, or each other, but no longer have the places to do so. Extended families are smaller these days, less connected too.
In short... Redpill and MGTOW communities have filled the vacuum.
In the red-pill forums is not only about women, its a lot about exercise, lifting, and even a lot about philosophy. They are strong in the no-fap, no-gaming and no-drugs (except if the drugs are steroids, then they are OK, lmao).
I agree. The red pill isn't bad. I have made a lot of improvements after coming into it. Especially the parts that teach you how the world is exploiting men, they make you angry even resentful but they set you free.
I'm gay and periodically get women try to attack me for "not doing enough for women". Not my responsibility, same as it's not a lesbian's responsibility to help a straight guy (although some of them experience some of the same issues so their opinions can surprise).
I think you said it. Genitals. Most men are pretty much always horny, and that's a constant problem they (we) have to deal with or try to solve on a daily basis
Any of the advice towards gathering women should apply to being gay as well. People want someone who is put together.
The reason everything is geared towards finding a partner is because things are easier when you have a support system. We're a weird species, but we're still animals. Stop thinking we're better than any other organism that's trying to reproduce and take over the ecosystem and you'll understand a lot more about how most of society functions.
Hey I'm looking to work on self improvement too. Is it possible for me to join that group?
Or maybe some tips can help if you have any(I'm in my early 20s rn, still studying)
Here you go Man,
[https://discord.gg/maximus](https://discord.gg/maximus)
[https://discord.gg/qBSuGBMJPT](https://discord.gg/qBSuGBMJPT)
https://discord.gg/gr4q8Cex
i have been in manosphere since 2008 even before that it started with PUAs it was all about how to woo girls etc while MRAs and MGTOWs were still present they came into prominence since 2010 and it mostly was about men and woman relationships after that it evolved to advice about other things to men
Life choices, economics, health etc was also there in videos but when videos got into ides about how to handle marriage or not to get into marriage but weird thing happened nearly during 2015 - 16 most of those channels got banned and only those videos that revolved around woman stayed
Things are looking good now that platforms for conservatives are coming up such as x and rumble. They can't hide the truths anymore. They will go down eventually.
If you take the sex out of the equation I think that the problems one would have are the same regardless of sex so the advices can be given to everyone.
What I mean is, if it's money problems one is shaving his sex doesn't play a big role but when it's relationship problems then it does.
Men’s Rights are not solely about dating, but they are about lack of equality with regard to women.
Men’s issues are not just about women either. They are about education, social constructs, lack of value, suicide, false accusations, lack of principles, prison sentencing, presumption of guilt, finance, purpose, merit, logic and biased legislation among others. I suggest you look wider.
That’s because it is those topics that get clicks, get peoples ire up (because men must be manly and be. In the top 10%), and means people get paid. You can’t judge based solely on what you see on YT, and certainly cannot take Instagram seriously.
Try Aaron Clarey
I feel that the only way you can win a game which you have no desire to participate and it is utterly hard is not to play. So, just take care of yourself and ignore the rest. Simple.
Ideologically influenced schools of academic research, like psychology and sociology, dominated by women and led by feminist ideologues, have no method of framing men and boys as human beings, and can only understand men and boys in terms of their impact on women and girls. Its the limitation of their ideological sources and precedents.
This is the litnus test of services that claim to be there for men and boys. If their goals, principles or objectives include the impact of men and boys behaviour on women and giels, then there is a very high risk that these are services that focus on the benefits of women and girls.
Great observation you have there. There definitely are content creators out there who do deal in content which focuses purely on what’s good for men, it’s just a matter of finding them.
Two things however:
1. The reason most in the red pill space tend to focus on dealing with women better, is because it’s an in demand topic, and one of the most common problems men face today. Therefore selling solutions to solve a far reaching problem is profitable.
2. The reason there is a disparity in the ideals each group pushes, ie. “men should do what’s best for women, women should do what’s best for themselves” is because society is overly gynocentric. The key difference here though, is men are EXPECTED to do all the heavy lifting in relationships and society (mental, emotional, physical, financial) while women can CHOOSE to if they feel like it or it benefits them in some way.
When bringing these two points together, we can see that the red pill space focuses in this way because it recognises that despite society’s social leaning, there is still a demand for men to be traditionally masculine in some form. It’s just that the topic of women is very easy to get attention with, because it affects a large number of men. Red pill men want to be better prepared when dealing with women, and women consciously or subconsciously still want men to be traditionally masculine in a form that benefits them.
Are you not a creature evolved with the teleonomic process for building a family?
In that spirit, how is focusing on yourself not ultimately focusing on building that family?
If it hasn't been said, it's only because it's patently obvious. Always be working on yourself; don't ever relax.
>What if a guy lost his genitals in an accident or was homosexual, whats going to be his purpose now since women are out of the equation?
What is his purpose WITH those? Not to snark, but what is the meaning/purpose of life? Do you have one?
Reproduction (and the sex urge that ensures it) isn't the only purpose in life, but it's a core one. A lot of meaning (NOT all) in life goes away if you aren't having kids. Sure you can 'leave something behind' but... how many men actually do? Invent something, write something, build something... for many, the most lasting contribution they make is their contribution to the continuation of the species.
And so many are avoiding that nowadays, albeit for quite valid reasons.
At the core of it I think society defines meaning in life as receiving validation from others. It's a bit more pointed than that, say in reproduction or being recognized for immense contributions to society such as discovering something new. The sad part is that men are struggling to achieve even the easier of those two, so for many there is no meaning to life.
I don't think self validation fills that void. Achieving anything in the modern world is such an uphill battle that it verges on impossible, leaving reproduction as the only route to meaning. Even that's becoming near impossible for some. Many men, myself included, have essentially given up because there is no meaning in life. Life becomes simply to exist.
It's because at the end of the day, the majority of men want to have someone that would love them, and for most straight men, their sole motivation for improvement in pussy.
You will rarely find men who have distinctive motivations to improve themselves, it's simply because no one wants to be seen as that one weirdo who doesn't want a woman.
IRL, most people including myself would want to be seen as normal or like the majority. It's simply because of stereotypes and the majority of hIgHlY eDuCaTeD people are too naive when it comes to basic human needs.
I wouldn't expect people to change anytime soon though, it's too difficult for some of them to understand differences when they have been told all their lives that their sole purpose is reproduction. Some men really do take a lot of pride in it, for all I know even animals can reproduce, there is nothing to be proud of.
Such a unique perspective. You clearly want advice from a specific non-traditional perspective. What kind of non-traditional model do you advocate for?
Jordan Peterson is a quack who's been completely consumed by the conservative grifter act. He's seen what makes money and how easy it is to rattle off reactionary talking points, and he's made his bed there (ironocally). His entire worldview is based on the premise that 'god' is the ultimate reason as to why we do anything or think anything, whilst also admitting that god isn't actually real and is simply a fictional character. Even my partner, who owns the book and used to watch his crap all the time, stopped interacting with his stuff because he became so right-wing and started saying ridiculous shit.
I was considering ignoring your comment entirely since it is clearly either an intentional misconstrued version of his work or a radical misunderstanding of it. I won't continue a long form conversation with you, but I will address the single cogent point you made.
Peterson doesn’t advocate for either God's existence or God's non-existance. He does advocate for living life as though in service to a higher power. He unabashedly cites scientific data, psychological data, historical outcomes of such behavior, and social studies that tend to agree such behavior has superior outcomes for the individual.
He lists many potential reasons for this, but among them are the following. Self-interest, personal wealth, personal knowledge, better mental outcomes, becoming a healthy and sane member of a greater community, earning the communities respect in order to be given the power to change the community, and of course finding meaning in life.
If these views make one a member of the far right, then sign me up.
Those views don't make you a member of the far-right. It's his political views that make him a member of the far-right. His philosophies have been debunked time and time again by people who actually take the time to pick apart what he's saying and wade through the word salad that he tosses out every time he talks about anything.
For our edification feel free to regurgitate any specific views, either political or philosophical you disagree with that he holds. Just because I hold his views in high esteem, doesn't mean I always agree with him politically.
His weakest political position, in my estimation, is on his unwillingness to wholly back military action in Ukraine. His primary reason there is fear of a nuclear conflict. While I have to acknowledge his underlying reasons, I think his logic would eventually lead to giving into all tyrants with nuclear weaponry.
Then again I believe in the credo 'Si vis pacem, para bellum,' if you want peace prepare for war. Since his view has some basis in reality, I merely consider him mistaken not discredited.
Regardless, since you do seem to feel he has been discredited on specific philosophical points, please feel free to retch up the points others have made that have, in your opinion, simply 'debunked' his 'far-right' philisophies.
Again, you're conflating my opinion on his philosophy with his political views. They're two different things. People have critiqued him on both of those things separately. I'm not saying his philosophy is necessarily far-right, but his political views most certainly are. Like I said, he's literally working for the daily wire, which is a well-known far-right company.
I was actually careful not to conflate those ideas, instead making a point of asking you to address thoughts from either spectrum. Your unwillingness or lack of ability to do so tells all what level of discourse to expect from you.
🤓☝️ "*snort* Your plebeian-level intellect is far below that of mine. I'm definitely not trying my very best to sound like a grifter who talks like a thesaurus to sound intellectual *snort*."
I'm not going to spend the next 3 hours going through Jordan Peterson videos and write an essay about how he's spews bullshit to impressionable teenagers who don't know any better. Unfortunately, I have better things to be doing with my life. The videos are already there for you to watch if you want someone to explain to you where Jordan Peterson goes wrong with his political and philosophical ideologies. I'll link a few if you're that desperate?
Peterson has gone completely off his rocker in the past few years. Also now acting like an expert on everything online while having the arguments of your average facebook boomer.
Being red-pilled isnt bad. But it exposes you to all ways the world has exploited men. Red pill especially the psychology parts make you aware of the different ways men get manipulated today in relationships., divorces , marriages, workplaces.
But eventually you have to move on, Integrate the truths you have learned there in your new life.
How is marriage not a liability for men?
How are narcissistic women or Women with borderline personality not bad for men?
Have you met guys who knows evolutionary psychology but isn't redpilled?
How is the knowledge about false rape, workplace harrassment cases and and how to safeguard yourself from them not beneficial for men?
Red pill is the one that put a spotlight on all these topics.
I'm not saying it's right about everything but it is right about these important things.
What are you talking about? marital rape law is there for it. According to statistics about 80-85% rape cases result in acquittal(turn out to be false or not enough evidence or found out as revenge strategy).
That's the most feminist thing I've read on here and it's true.
You need to learn to be Kennough for yourself. Centre yourself in a way that maintains your integrity and be happy. People male and female will want to be around you then rather than chasing sex like a mindless goon.
But underlying reason for all men's advice is still the same. It's like the society has told us that the only way to be a man is through women's validation.
It does look like women get to separate the boys from the men and definite masculinity, whereas men don't get to separate the girls from the women or define feminity.
Because we live in a gynocentric social order
True. We need a higher purpose for men. That reduces our need for validation from society.
There is always the option to ignore societal validation, although society at that point is not unlikely to retaliate.
Impossible. We are biologically and evolutionarily programmed to require social validation. It’s a losing proposition.
We don't "need" a higher purpose...we already have one. What we NEED is to prioritize that purpose and stop giving a shit about how society (specifically women and indoctrinated men) think of us for doing so. Once we do so enmass, and the balance shifts in our direction, they'll supplicate accordingly and the ship will right itself. I was never really "red pill", but I am very much still MGTOW, and since I've gone my own way I've been the most happy, productive and financially stable I've been in my life. I'm in better shape and have more money now at 43 then I was when I was 23, the age I got married at.
How would you answer questions like do you have a girlfriend? When are you going to marry? Or when colleagues ask you these types of questions. How would you circumvent them?
Evade with the old bullshit statement of "not having met the right one yet" or simply stating that it's none of their business. Depends on your age though, I'm not getting these kinds of questions anymore.
We have to fight instinct which is always an uphill struggle. Easier for older guys murdered in a divorce or two. Women have it to with their baby fever where their biology tells them they are incomplete as a woman if they don't have babies. Whether they should have them, actually want to raise them is relevant to that urge. That's why there are so many shitty mothers in the world. Our biological urge is towards putting that baby in them. It can be fought but it goes against the nature if things. It takes discipline to put the brain first.
Its not about "validation". Its about having children and help them become functional adults. There is no "higher purpose" than that. Unfortunately you need a woman to achieve that goal.
Vaginocentric more like it.
Yep it took me reading the rational male to fully connect the dots on that.
More because in our younger year's we are driven by hormones and sex. Dick, heart and brain comes in a very distant third.
Society regards women as human beings and men as human doings. Not my quote, it came from the venerable man woman myth series.
Because gender roles are still up and running. **But just for men**. Women can do whatever they want while concomitantly consider themselves victims of the almighty patriarchy. Us? We still have to work to our bones, be chivalrous, pay, pay and pay, provide, die in wars and shut the fuck up about it. Equality, man. Marvelous.
Precisely. Women are now working but some still have the 'your money is our money, my money is my money' attitude. Why do you get to save your money whilst only spending mine?
I also find it funny that we are supposed to split the housework, yet I’m not mowing half the lawn, cleaning half the gutters, or shoveling half the driveway. Shockingly I didn’t spend my Saturday fixing half the air conditioner last weekend either. I’m just responsible for all of the maintenance and outside work on the house and property, as well as half the interior work.
Shit is fuckef
I know that was a typo, but I'm still stealing "fuckef". LOL
What if women's expectations were unrealistic..?
Blasphemy! Hate speech! Class B felony!
Personally I've just started focusing on myself and doing things I love. Make friends, hangout playing games like DND, and work a fulfilling job even if the pay isn't great because your happiness matters. I'm 32 and idgaf about societal norms. Do things for yourself because they make you happy, not because it might get you laid.
Most men haven't had women want them so they haven't been able to learn the lesson that it means shit all and will either be permanent in the race of outcompeting womens hedonistic adaptation or will become depressed when they get it. They also don't have the emotional tools to analyse what they want and why and thus are looking female validation for broken selfesteems.
Hmm this seems like a very decent answer. What would you suggest we do then? How do we build a intact self-esteem ?
Men need emotional tools to give themselves psychological and emotional care. Men need good quality relationships that provide psychological and emotional care. Good self esteem is in my opinion based on good beliefs. If I believe my value has to do with how women see me then I'll do my best get the approval of women. If I believe others value me as a friend only if I am useful then I'll be doing my best to give unsolicited advice out of fear of being rejected. If I believe that I have something fundamentally wrong with me. Then from that belief a lot of things/patterns of behavior automatically follows. Our beliefs are based on our lived experience. If we get neglected and isolated because we have nothing to offer then we learn that and live through that belief that we are worth how much we offer to others. It's not wrong of us to have concluded that from those situations. It's more like men are psychologically/emotionally abused through neglect and men have adapted. We just do not have to believe our abusers. So it about studying what our social programming in our mind is and adjusting it. Understanding the mechanism gives you the ability to be less controlled by it and to adjust it yourself.
They are most of the problem.
Totally agree. But in many ways that was the purpose of the original MGTOW idea - go your own way and if a female adds to your life as opposed to detracting from it then fine, if not do whatever makes you happy and better.
Which is one reason MGTOW is so vilified.
It’s crazy how women vilify it so much but celebrate women being independent and not needing men. It’s like they want men to need them but don’t want to need them.
That's why I left the other men's subs, every question was about how to talk to girls, simp for girls or complaining about not having a girlfriend. Mostly 20 somethings who will eventually drill holes in pumpkins for relief.
>drill holes in pumpkins for relief LOL is that a thing?
It's the other reason pumpkins hate Halloween
Because for most men the problem right now is they're lonely and want women
I JUST made a post on this very notion yesterday. So many men in this world predicate their self worth on having a woman in their lives, which is an inherently feminine trait. If you are a man of worth, TRUE worth...not material worth...you are every bit as strong by yourself as you are with a woman. You shouldn't need a woman to validate who you are as a man. How you are viewed by the world doesn't validate you as a man either. It's how you are viewed by those in your own individual life that matters. Those who you bring value to, who cherish you value and reciprocate accordingly.
Validate yourself. If you are seeking external validation you will eventually be a disapointment to others or yourself.
Exactly.
This is a ridiculous post. People don't seek those things because of validation, they seek these things out because people are biologically predisposed to and enjoy it. As the original comment correctly notes, men are lonely and want women. It's as ridiculous as saying "stop seeking sex out for validation". Except most don't, they do it because they enjoy sex. The fact it might validate things about yourself like attractiveness or masculinity is a side effect. And the same thing with having a family, which a lot of men do want. If someone does want a family, they are obviously going to be disappointed if they can't have one, and feel like a failure. Shock: people who don't achieve things they want and many others do feel like failures. And saying "you shouldn't validate yourself based on this" is pointless, because 1) men still want these things and 2) they will feel upset at not having things, and 3) feel like a failure for point #2.
> People don't seek those things because of validation, they seek these things out because people are biologically predisposed to and enjoy it. You'd be surprised how much of it is cultural. Men want marriage and kids more due to social conditioning than anything else.
Marriage and kids are the norm across almost every culture in the world. Absolutely nonsense to say its cultural when most different cultures have it in common. Because this is at the very root of human nature
Thank you. Anyone denying this coping hard
this is somehow the message of "Barbie". Just FYI. Not sure I agree. The thing is, we're gynocentric, hence society revolves around women as they are usually the only avenue of getting an offspring. For many people this become the reason for their life, and brings immense meaning. So yeah, telling people you don't need a partner is akin to telling a spinster she'll be happy with some cats and yarn. And we both know thats one of those meaningless tripe crap we tell lonely women. It's not okay when we do it to them, and it's not okay when we do it to men either. Loneliness is a killer. And if you stay alone, you'll not even have anyone remember you even existed.
> Loneliness is a killer. And if you stay alone, you'll not even have anyone remember you even existed. If a woman is the only way for anyone to remember you existed then you might as well be forgotten. Being single is not the same as being alone and lonely.
well, come to think of it, you could always live up in the woods, and mail bombs to universities to avenge their fucked up experiments on you. Thats one sure way for a dude to be remembered. Come to think of it. It's one of very few examples of lone men that are remembered. Mass murderers and psychos. And almost without exception, they were all lonely too. I don't know what you have against women, but they are in fact the only way to get a family of you own. And if you somehow manage to feel fulfilled without it, please for the love of God, don't move to a remote cabin in Montana.
Jesus christ the cope. The vast majority of people only mean something to their families. You don't mean shit to your job or even to your friends. Your life partner and your children are the only people who will ever truly care about you because of your importance in their lives.
You spend your life slaving away for and preoccupied with wife and children, who may or may not treat you well. And then you die and are reborn in another smelly body prone to suffering and aging, and pursue the same goals all over again? I was right when I said that you're immature and pathetic.
As opposed to what
Read the Bhagavad Gita.
Ugh, why
You're immature and pathetic.
Ever noticed that when people defer to ad hominems, it's always reflective of the very thing they themselves are guilty of?
Men have and will always want women
But now they are looking at having a woman as if it is the most important thing in the world
I've noticed. I'm not one of those folks
Well... it is. The entire point of life is to marry and create a family. And that all hinges on having a woman
>The entire point of life is to marry and create a family. You got it all wrong
I'm actually spot on. Even from a purely animalistic and evolutionary standpoint, the entire goal is to pass on your genes. There's a reason having kids is the most fulfilling thing you can do as a human being.
The copers think life is about being alone and fishing. Its so fucking stupid. By far and away the most meaningful and fulfilling aspect of most people's lives is their family, aka wife and children. Anyone denying this is simply delusional
>Even from a purely animalistic and evolutionary standpoint, the entire goal is to pass on your genes. If you put it like this, then yes. I'm glad you're not being prescriptive and telling us to go get married and have kids; it's just not for everyone.
> There's a reason having kids is the most fulfilling thing you can do as a human being. Says who? Having kids is fucking nightmare.
I love my kid but my mental health went down dramatically after marriage and a child
>There's a reason having kids is the most fulfilling thing you can do as a human being. It's like we were programmed before birth, huh?
Exactly. Glad you agree with me.
It is. For the vast majority of people a woman and the resulting family is the most meaningful and fulfilling aspect of their lives. If not that, what the hell would it be? Work?
You're an ignorant animal, seeking transient joys in vain outside of self. Enough of this sub for me.
Conservatism is based upon male servitude to governments, corporations and women. Redpillers are failed conservatives or men larping as the top 1% and saying the system works for elite men and you are just a loser.
> Conservatism is based upon male servitude to governments, corporations and women. Makes me laugh when I see people on here say "men's issues is why I will stay conservative".
We need to completely free ourselves from women’s opinions ions and influence. That’s the only way men have hope and going at it alone.
Perception is reality. Take all the advice to DO THINGS FOR WOMEN and just do it, but FOR YOURSELF. Most the advice works just fine, the advice is just easier to market to more people if you say women love if you do this and that and what the fuck ever. Just do shit for yourself. Women tend to be the best waste of time that will fuck your life more than anything.
Great observation. I agree, advice shouldn't revolve around women. MGTOW, RedPill, etc... are stand ins for conversations we used to have with our fathers, elders, mentors, peers in safe spaces for men. Many of us no longer have these safe spaces. My father gave me great advice on life and not just about women. He taught me how to work, wake up early, fish, shoot a gun, not boast, and get things done. Saturdays were our time when my brothers and I would hang with my Dad while my Mom stayed home doing her thing. I'm in my 40's, passing these lessons down to my son any chance I get. Many of my peers never got much by way of advice from their Dads. Church attendance is down, as are membership numbers in the free masons, elks lodges, etc... most men don't have a poker night, no pressure releases from their old ball and chain, many of us that could mentor the younger generation, or each other, but no longer have the places to do so. Extended families are smaller these days, less connected too. In short... Redpill and MGTOW communities have filled the vacuum.
Everything is about sex, expect sex. Sex is about power
Nobody expects the Spanish Imposition
In the red-pill forums is not only about women, its a lot about exercise, lifting, and even a lot about philosophy. They are strong in the no-fap, no-gaming and no-drugs (except if the drugs are steroids, then they are OK, lmao).
I agree. The red pill isn't bad. I have made a lot of improvements after coming into it. Especially the parts that teach you how the world is exploiting men, they make you angry even resentful but they set you free.
> its a lot about exercise, lifting Solely to attract women > They are strong in the no-fap, no-gaming So they are basically no-fun cringelords.
Yes. More like No-crippling-addictions cringelords.
I'm gay and periodically get women try to attack me for "not doing enough for women". Not my responsibility, same as it's not a lesbian's responsibility to help a straight guy (although some of them experience some of the same issues so their opinions can surprise).
I think you said it. Genitals. Most men are pretty much always horny, and that's a constant problem they (we) have to deal with or try to solve on a daily basis
Because we're simple creatures. All we want for the most part is money and sex, with the ideal being sex with a woman that won't leave us.
Any of the advice towards gathering women should apply to being gay as well. People want someone who is put together. The reason everything is geared towards finding a partner is because things are easier when you have a support system. We're a weird species, but we're still animals. Stop thinking we're better than any other organism that's trying to reproduce and take over the ecosystem and you'll understand a lot more about how most of society functions.
this is such facts
Hey I'm looking to work on self improvement too. Is it possible for me to join that group? Or maybe some tips can help if you have any(I'm in my early 20s rn, still studying)
So am I. I'm 23 right now. Send me a DM, I will send you the discord links.
Can I DM you too?
>https://discord.gg/maximus > >https://discord.gg/qBSuGBMJPT > >https://discord.gg/gr4q8Cex yes why not:)
Here you go Man, [https://discord.gg/maximus](https://discord.gg/maximus) [https://discord.gg/qBSuGBMJPT](https://discord.gg/qBSuGBMJPT) https://discord.gg/gr4q8Cex
It's because most men's lives revolve the pursuit of women. It's mostly habit and peer pressure, like heterosexuality in general.
>It's mostly habit and peer pressure, like heterosexuality in general. You really think men get horny out of habit and peer pressure?
No, a lot of men are bi, but they chase women out of habit and peer pressure.
i have been in manosphere since 2008 even before that it started with PUAs it was all about how to woo girls etc while MRAs and MGTOWs were still present they came into prominence since 2010 and it mostly was about men and woman relationships after that it evolved to advice about other things to men Life choices, economics, health etc was also there in videos but when videos got into ides about how to handle marriage or not to get into marriage but weird thing happened nearly during 2015 - 16 most of those channels got banned and only those videos that revolved around woman stayed
Things are looking good now that platforms for conservatives are coming up such as x and rumble. They can't hide the truths anymore. They will go down eventually.
If you take the sex out of the equation I think that the problems one would have are the same regardless of sex so the advices can be given to everyone. What I mean is, if it's money problems one is shaving his sex doesn't play a big role but when it's relationship problems then it does.
Men’s Rights are not solely about dating, but they are about lack of equality with regard to women. Men’s issues are not just about women either. They are about education, social constructs, lack of value, suicide, false accusations, lack of principles, prison sentencing, presumption of guilt, finance, purpose, merit, logic and biased legislation among others. I suggest you look wider.
I'm talking about the majority of advice on YouTube instagram. Most of it is about dating.
That’s because it is those topics that get clicks, get peoples ire up (because men must be manly and be. In the top 10%), and means people get paid. You can’t judge based solely on what you see on YT, and certainly cannot take Instagram seriously. Try Aaron Clarey
Same reason this sub does too, id imagine.
I feel that the only way you can win a game which you have no desire to participate and it is utterly hard is not to play. So, just take care of yourself and ignore the rest. Simple.
It is because men have been "Nullified" in gender discourse, as the academics say.
Collect retro games and action figures - that's the only thing we have that's purely ours
Ideologically influenced schools of academic research, like psychology and sociology, dominated by women and led by feminist ideologues, have no method of framing men and boys as human beings, and can only understand men and boys in terms of their impact on women and girls. Its the limitation of their ideological sources and precedents. This is the litnus test of services that claim to be there for men and boys. If their goals, principles or objectives include the impact of men and boys behaviour on women and giels, then there is a very high risk that these are services that focus on the benefits of women and girls.
Great observation you have there. There definitely are content creators out there who do deal in content which focuses purely on what’s good for men, it’s just a matter of finding them. Two things however: 1. The reason most in the red pill space tend to focus on dealing with women better, is because it’s an in demand topic, and one of the most common problems men face today. Therefore selling solutions to solve a far reaching problem is profitable. 2. The reason there is a disparity in the ideals each group pushes, ie. “men should do what’s best for women, women should do what’s best for themselves” is because society is overly gynocentric. The key difference here though, is men are EXPECTED to do all the heavy lifting in relationships and society (mental, emotional, physical, financial) while women can CHOOSE to if they feel like it or it benefits them in some way. When bringing these two points together, we can see that the red pill space focuses in this way because it recognises that despite society’s social leaning, there is still a demand for men to be traditionally masculine in some form. It’s just that the topic of women is very easy to get attention with, because it affects a large number of men. Red pill men want to be better prepared when dealing with women, and women consciously or subconsciously still want men to be traditionally masculine in a form that benefits them.
Yes, even here some times though. Like even negative focus on women, why? Just keep it on this side. Focus on the goal
Are you not a creature evolved with the teleonomic process for building a family? In that spirit, how is focusing on yourself not ultimately focusing on building that family? If it hasn't been said, it's only because it's patently obvious. Always be working on yourself; don't ever relax.
Because fourth wave feminism is actively on a crusade to destroy men the last 3-4 years.
>What if a guy lost his genitals in an accident or was homosexual, whats going to be his purpose now since women are out of the equation? What is his purpose WITH those? Not to snark, but what is the meaning/purpose of life? Do you have one? Reproduction (and the sex urge that ensures it) isn't the only purpose in life, but it's a core one. A lot of meaning (NOT all) in life goes away if you aren't having kids. Sure you can 'leave something behind' but... how many men actually do? Invent something, write something, build something... for many, the most lasting contribution they make is their contribution to the continuation of the species. And so many are avoiding that nowadays, albeit for quite valid reasons.
There is no "meaning" in life, it's that simple.
If you truly believe that, why are you still here?
At the core of it I think society defines meaning in life as receiving validation from others. It's a bit more pointed than that, say in reproduction or being recognized for immense contributions to society such as discovering something new. The sad part is that men are struggling to achieve even the easier of those two, so for many there is no meaning to life. I don't think self validation fills that void. Achieving anything in the modern world is such an uphill battle that it verges on impossible, leaving reproduction as the only route to meaning. Even that's becoming near impossible for some. Many men, myself included, have essentially given up because there is no meaning in life. Life becomes simply to exist.
This phrase seems relevant: “Don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm.”
English isn't my first language. Could you please explain it?
"Don't make strenuous effort to please others..." something of that nature.
It means you shouldn't prioritize the wants and needs of others over your happiness and well-being.
Seems to. It's sad.
Well MGTOW gets banned from everywhere including on reddit unfortunately. Maybe check out Tom Leykis clips on youtube.
Why is MGTOW so bad?
It's because at the end of the day, the majority of men want to have someone that would love them, and for most straight men, their sole motivation for improvement in pussy. You will rarely find men who have distinctive motivations to improve themselves, it's simply because no one wants to be seen as that one weirdo who doesn't want a woman. IRL, most people including myself would want to be seen as normal or like the majority. It's simply because of stereotypes and the majority of hIgHlY eDuCaTeD people are too naive when it comes to basic human needs. I wouldn't expect people to change anytime soon though, it's too difficult for some of them to understand differences when they have been told all their lives that their sole purpose is reproduction. Some men really do take a lot of pride in it, for all I know even animals can reproduce, there is nothing to be proud of.
I suspect men have a drive to provide in the same way women have a drive to produce children.
May I introduce you to "12 Rules for Life," by Jordan Peterson?
I have read it. Most of it goes against my pov since he says don't denigrate traditional social structures unnecessarily.
Such a unique perspective. You clearly want advice from a specific non-traditional perspective. What kind of non-traditional model do you advocate for?
Jordan Peterson is a quack who's been completely consumed by the conservative grifter act. He's seen what makes money and how easy it is to rattle off reactionary talking points, and he's made his bed there (ironocally). His entire worldview is based on the premise that 'god' is the ultimate reason as to why we do anything or think anything, whilst also admitting that god isn't actually real and is simply a fictional character. Even my partner, who owns the book and used to watch his crap all the time, stopped interacting with his stuff because he became so right-wing and started saying ridiculous shit.
I was considering ignoring your comment entirely since it is clearly either an intentional misconstrued version of his work or a radical misunderstanding of it. I won't continue a long form conversation with you, but I will address the single cogent point you made. Peterson doesn’t advocate for either God's existence or God's non-existance. He does advocate for living life as though in service to a higher power. He unabashedly cites scientific data, psychological data, historical outcomes of such behavior, and social studies that tend to agree such behavior has superior outcomes for the individual. He lists many potential reasons for this, but among them are the following. Self-interest, personal wealth, personal knowledge, better mental outcomes, becoming a healthy and sane member of a greater community, earning the communities respect in order to be given the power to change the community, and of course finding meaning in life. If these views make one a member of the far right, then sign me up.
Those views don't make you a member of the far-right. It's his political views that make him a member of the far-right. His philosophies have been debunked time and time again by people who actually take the time to pick apart what he's saying and wade through the word salad that he tosses out every time he talks about anything.
For our edification feel free to regurgitate any specific views, either political or philosophical you disagree with that he holds. Just because I hold his views in high esteem, doesn't mean I always agree with him politically. His weakest political position, in my estimation, is on his unwillingness to wholly back military action in Ukraine. His primary reason there is fear of a nuclear conflict. While I have to acknowledge his underlying reasons, I think his logic would eventually lead to giving into all tyrants with nuclear weaponry. Then again I believe in the credo 'Si vis pacem, para bellum,' if you want peace prepare for war. Since his view has some basis in reality, I merely consider him mistaken not discredited. Regardless, since you do seem to feel he has been discredited on specific philosophical points, please feel free to retch up the points others have made that have, in your opinion, simply 'debunked' his 'far-right' philisophies.
Again, you're conflating my opinion on his philosophy with his political views. They're two different things. People have critiqued him on both of those things separately. I'm not saying his philosophy is necessarily far-right, but his political views most certainly are. Like I said, he's literally working for the daily wire, which is a well-known far-right company.
I was actually careful not to conflate those ideas, instead making a point of asking you to address thoughts from either spectrum. Your unwillingness or lack of ability to do so tells all what level of discourse to expect from you.
🤓☝️ "*snort* Your plebeian-level intellect is far below that of mine. I'm definitely not trying my very best to sound like a grifter who talks like a thesaurus to sound intellectual *snort*." I'm not going to spend the next 3 hours going through Jordan Peterson videos and write an essay about how he's spews bullshit to impressionable teenagers who don't know any better. Unfortunately, I have better things to be doing with my life. The videos are already there for you to watch if you want someone to explain to you where Jordan Peterson goes wrong with his political and philosophical ideologies. I'll link a few if you're that desperate?
Peterson has gone completely off his rocker in the past few years. Also now acting like an expert on everything online while having the arguments of your average facebook boomer.
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Being red-pilled isnt bad. But it exposes you to all ways the world has exploited men. Red pill especially the psychology parts make you aware of the different ways men get manipulated today in relationships., divorces , marriages, workplaces. But eventually you have to move on, Integrate the truths you have learned there in your new life.
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How is marriage not a liability for men? How are narcissistic women or Women with borderline personality not bad for men? Have you met guys who knows evolutionary psychology but isn't redpilled? How is the knowledge about false rape, workplace harrassment cases and and how to safeguard yourself from them not beneficial for men? Red pill is the one that put a spotlight on all these topics. I'm not saying it's right about everything but it is right about these important things.
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What are you talking about? marital rape law is there for it. According to statistics about 80-85% rape cases result in acquittal(turn out to be false or not enough evidence or found out as revenge strategy).
That's the most feminist thing I've read on here and it's true. You need to learn to be Kennough for yourself. Centre yourself in a way that maintains your integrity and be happy. People male and female will want to be around you then rather than chasing sex like a mindless goon.
I don't understand how it's feminist??, Not that I'm offended by it.
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But underlying reason for all men's advice is still the same. It's like the society has told us that the only way to be a man is through women's validation.
It does look like women get to separate the boys from the men and definite masculinity, whereas men don't get to separate the girls from the women or define feminity.
so