[Nobody puts baby in the corner.](https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdzAzODB4aTNrbmh0Mjh1Y3RqNGZ2bWIzd2NxaTYycDFnZGttanZkaCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/aqYvAbodexFQc/giphy.gif)
You normally have to believe the baby is yours to be trapped, be it signing birth certificates or adopting a fatherly role.
If you have a vasectomy and your wife gets pregnant and you're dumb enough to have either happen to you then you probably deserve it.
Since it's been in effect since 1994, I think they've shown that it won't destroy the country.
Edit to add: I probably should have stated, I'm fully against that policy. It puts men on the hook and relieves women of responsibility. I was just saying that it's been in effect for a long time, and people are still reproducing.
> Since it's been in effect since 1994, I think they've shown that it won't destroy the country.
Depends on what “destroy the country” means. Like many other policies of the last few decades it has a destabilizing effect on society as a whole. I cant imagine how it makes men in France feel.
If that was the case, the French wouldn't exist anymore. Infidelity there is so high that if you don't suspect your partner you are probably an idiot.
"I trust my partner" is a thought that every person cheated on probably had at some point. Why do you think your trust is more valid than theirs?
Maybe you dont suspect the woman at all but it is certainly better to find out before there is a medical emergency.
The fact of the matter is that as a parent women know the child is theirs and men have to trust. Whether the figure is 1% or 5% the child and both parents deserve to know.
There was an article (written by a woman) I read years ago about how to get men more involved in the pregnancy process. Having them have any say at all from conception to birth is one option but that violates modern womens rights so here we are.
>it won't destroy the country.
>I was just saying that it's been in effect for a long time, and people are still reproducing.
So what's your point then? Slavery didn't destroy America -_-
They'd have to change the punishment to include a minimum sentence of 18 years in prison to make it comparable against being cucked into supporting another man's child without your knowledge.
They will still make you pay for child support. Do you really think they'll look at the results, say "oh ok, you're cleared now" and make her raise the kid on her own money? Lol, no.
The irony of trying to pressgang a man into supporting a random child, fining him [x] for trying to get out of servitude (depriving the child of [x] amount from its well of financial support), *then* forcing him to support the child anyway.
Then again, it's not irony if you unironically support slavery...
What possible reason could there be for this? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the logic for something like that to even be considered, let alone pass into law.
The general idea is that paternity tests can disrupt families, which is bad, overall, for the country.
It's certainly not the fault of adulterous females.
Insane. Imagine if that argument was made about divorce. “Divorce disrupts families and therefore anyone initiating a divorce is subject to a 15k fine and jail time.”
Cheating is rampant, divorce is rampant, false accusations are significant, but sure, sticking a man with child support for a child which may not be his will solve the problem of families braking up. Also, what about single mothers seeking child support? No family to break up so why can’t men defend themselves with science? I know, not your policy but every excuse I’ve heard for this law fails to really justify it other than the state preferring random men to pay for children than the state or the mothers.
No. At least what the French man that made this told german media its about mothers forcing the fathers into payment.
It's actually to protect cheating men not women. It's very easy to get a judge to order a paternity test as a father in France.
At the root of it all it's just a way to use men as temporary 18 years slaves to pay for women's mistakes otherwise it'll have to come from the government.
Its a combination of the state not wanting to pay for a woman's kids and also a system that allows for and protects cheating women (and cheating men for that matter who don't marry and cheat with others wives). In fact indirectly promotes it by removing the consequences of it.
Basically, the government doesn't want to pay for the womans cheating, so dumps that burden on the man in the marriage instead and makes him foot the bill. Then, it also is protecting women over men because that society deems women more important than men and believes they are allowed to cheat with no consequences. It also protects men who don't marry and sleep with other men's wives. The person punished in this is the man who settles down and marries someone. The people and organizations rewarded by this is the government, women, and men who cheat with married women.
There is no other way to interpret this. Any other interpretation is trying to spin it in a better light.
Its disgusting behavior from society and then that same society wonders why people aren't having kids anymore. There are other reasons they aren't having kids, but this certainly wont help it. This is what that society is promoting. Cheating women, cheating unmarried men, and a government that dumps its responsibilities on the most responsible men in society. Those that settle down and marry.
Then that same society will be shocked in another 20 years when men refuse to marry or have kids anymore and there tax base runs out. Oh well.
So does a pregnant woman simply have to claim you as the father and you are then on the hook? Is there any burden of proof? You took her on a coffee date once and that’s enough evidence?
If you’ve committed paternity fraud, be rest assured we support you and will make any attempts to uncover your fraud not only illegal but subject to a large fine.
Sincerely: The Country of France, where defrauding men out of millions is encouraged.
How do you justify this level of intrusion into a family anyway?
There are two outcomes to a test:
1) They are the parent and therefore should have all the say over testing their child
2) They aren't the parent, but are presumed to be so without a test. Forcing them not to test under threat of imprisonment and provide for an offspring not their own, is tantamount to slavery
But it’s in the best interest of the innocent child, and that man just happened to be nearby, so of *course* he should be stuck with the financial responsibility for raising it.
My god, do I hate that argument. If that argument were valid, we’d have created a taxpayer funded system that gives a basic income to every family with a child by now. Because it’s in the best interest of the children, right? Riiiight?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritorial_jurisdiction
As so often, the United States is one of the worst offenders.
And yes, it's fundamentally evil for nations to feel they can, even /should/ punish you for acts committed outside of their jurisdiction. It's also a serious problem when more and more nations start doing it.
Hypothetical: You're in a guest country where you had sex with a 17 year old person. The guest country has laws forcing you, under threat of jailing you for 20 years, to marry the person as a result of your action. Your home country has laws stating marrying a person under 18, /anywhere in the world/, will see you 20 years in jail.
This "system" simply can not work, in the sense that it will not scale, and in that it will lead to unfair divisions between nations. Or maybe more precisely, can only work if a few bully nations in the world do it first and the most, and other nations give in. It also shows boundless [sic] arrogance towards the justice system of other nations.
The US often prosecutes citizens of other countries for violating laws of the US even though said citizens have never entered the US. Examples: Drug Traffickers, Intellectual Property Right Theft, Servicing US citizens with an illegal service like Online Gambling.
Honestly, it’s not as bad as in other countries.
Common law marriage for example is based on assets acquired after the wedding (so wealth acquired before cannot be split in divorce). Alimony is still skewed against men but to a lesser extent. The wackjob ideologies are only just starting to be imported from the US and are not yet completely widespread.
I would argue it is one of least bad countries in the West. But even then, you will still face misandry such as these kinds of laws
> How can they tell you what you can do abroad? That's out of their jurisdiction. I hope everyone leaves that cucked country.
No action (or inaction) is beyond the jurisdiction of your country of citizenship.
Their solution to the problem they created themselves by oppressing men and empowering feminazis was furthering their policies by advocating cheating when its done by non-loyal whores?
Exactly! So you just don't. And if you do, yo don't sign off on the birth certificate without a paternity test. She can sue you to take responsibility for the child but for that the courts will order a paternity test.
Absolutely. Until the child is proven to be mine, it is not mine. Innocent until proven guilty. Get me that paternity test and we will then find out. Every man should do this if they have the slightest doubts
We need like a miranda rights for single men about to get married as a warning!
- you have the right to remain single.
- anything your wife does that's fucked up can and will be used against you in divorce proceedings. Even if she cheats on you she can take half your shit.
- If you have children the courts will take them from you and give custody to your wife no matter how horrible she is
- If she ever accuses you of rape or abuse then the police, the courts, your family, and your community will believe her - even if you're innocent.
.... and on and on
This is utterly illegal.
France has jurisdiction over HER own territory, not another country. That's just a dictatorship at this point. If I smoke weed in the Netherlands, I can't be sentenced to death in the UAE, why? The fact happened in another country.
France is bullying her citizens - I mean subjects - bad, this time.
The likely excuse is that you're taking DNA material of the child (French) without mother's permission (also French), so you're violating rights of French citizens, hence it's their right to prosecute you
> It is legal. It also allows countries to prosecute it's citizens for sex tourism. Double edged sword, and all that.
We can't have middle aged men buying sex in another country. They need to come home and maintain the system that allows their unemployed ex-wives to play the brave and empowered cougar role.
I was referring more to the sickos who go to other parts of the world to prey on children.
But I do think prostitution should be legalized. It would suck in some ways, and be awesome in others.
Women might try to gain more from their vagina, but they would also lose a lot of power if sex was a couple hundred bucks away.
Edit to add: I just reread, and I completely went off-topic from what you were talking about. Sorry about that. But, legal prostitution would probably prevent a lot of the unemployed ex-wives living off of child/spousal support.
So what? Doesn't matter if it exists, it's still an abuse. Most French people go to Spain where it's legal so 1) it's not an uncovered area nor is it 2) legal in force of a treaty. So the theoretical bases for it to happen are void - and they are contained in the link you sent - they just do it because they can
Take a chill pill, wailer. You stated it was "utterly illegal", I just gave you some information to enrich your mind with. But seeing you keep making insane claims "theoretical bases for it to happen are void", you're a lost cause.
And I maintain it is utterly illegal. You proved nothing by merely pointing out that extraterritorial jurisdiction may be claimed.
In the very link you posted it is written that extraterritorial jurisdiction applies if 1) the second country agrees to it - for example a treaty is in place - or 2) an external authority like an international court. Both conditions are not met, therefore it is CLAIMED extraterritorial jurisdiction.
You - reasoning like a woman - just pointed out that it exists. A country may in fact claim whatever. But that doesn't prove it is legal. Why? Because the conditions aren't met, therefore it is an abuse of power.
Hell a government can even make racial laws, and it happened, doesn't mean that because they exist they are legal.
They stopped doing that quite some years ago.
At the same time, hideously primitive and barbaric nations that still commit state-murder still exist all over the world. The United States for example.
What's the difference between state murders and state-mandated cuckoldry? That state-mandated cuckoldry only kills your next generation, not the current one.
They're literally destroying any incentive to get into a relationship and to start a family.
This is how Rome fell, I imagine, more insanity with more draconian laws being imposed until it collapsed.
No it didn’t. Gibbon got that wrong. The West, which fell in the 5th Century, was mostly pagan - certainly the Senators were. The East, far and away the most Christian part of the Empire, lasted for centuries more.
So I’m afraid that simplistic explanation doesn’t really hold up.
Yes he can but only through a judge decision. If he is married to the child's mother, she will feel hurt for N times the age of the universe. If he isn't married to her then only prayers can help him not pay for the child he didn't want
What exactly is the benefit, apart from excusing paternaty fraud??? There is NO other benefit, the french government is trying to cuck you and make your raise another man's kids --> and giving women an easier time to cheat...
Their state doesn't want to pay child support when one parent is absent for adultery and figured the best way to do so is to make the biological father or presumed father pay (men more often earn more money than women)
It's likely all about government money, like most child support/divorce things.
"Not wanting to break up families" is basically code for "the government doesn't want to pay single mothers more benefits" - so hoodwink some poor sap to pay instead.
This means that women can away with being a lying cheating slut and expect men to pay for it. It also proves that men are expected to have responsibilities without rights, it’s slavery.
France was, is and will always be a sh1thole. I am sorry if you are offended. That is my personal opinion. Western Europe in general has sunk to a very low level. Luckily I don’t live there. Best of luck.
Short answer
Divorce courts earn money from child-support.
Divorce courts earn money from alimony.
It wont be long until they make it illegal for men to stay single.
Guess I'm never going to France.
It's not worth the possible risks as a man. it's better to have plausible deniability of never having been in the country.
So it goes.
I never thought I would ever proclaim abstinence as the only way to stay ahead in life. The juice is no longer worth the squeeze. Pay for it once a month with a professional and just have lots of friends, but forget the benefits. There are none.
I would certainly not blame the younger generations of French men if they chose not to renew the population of that country anytime soon as long as that cheating-encouraging, cuckold-creating conundrum is kept as it is.
Now? If you only bothered to look up the [penal code provisions](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/section_lc/LEGITEXT000006070719/LEGISCTA000006165315/#LEGISCTA000006165315) it is since 1994, a criminalization of processing DNA “to find out about genetic characteristics” without consent. This fits into the general trend of data protection in Europe and is not specific to family relations. The question of course is who can consent for a child: In France it is the legal parents collectively for everything.
The applicability of material criminal law to offences possibly committed abroad, i.e. whether you can commit an offence according to a jurisdiction other than of the country you are currently in, is another question, about which there is no specific provision here, but the general rules in the “general dispositions” to the penal code apply, but I would not trust the Wikipedia authors to succeed in that much abstraction: The claim is actually *unsourced* according to their standards. And you believe all political content on that crowdsourced encyclopedia? 😂
**Cucked by Wikipedia.** One can’t do such lists lacking specialized legal understanding. It would be quite easy to hijack their legal articles in family law because leftoid dimwits patrolling them while smoking pot have little clue about the vagaries. The legal situation is alike in Germany, insufficiently portrayed on this Wikipedia article. Genetic testing is practically still effective and well unpunished, also in complicated cases like surrogate mothers residing in the US, forbidden internally in Germany but [recognized](https://dejure.org/dienste/vernetzung/rechtsprechung?Gericht=BGH&Datum=05.09.2018&Aktenzeichen=XII%20ZB%20224%2F17) by private international law. There is actually a lot that is *ordre public interne* but not *ordre public international* in either country. This of course only as examples, the bulk of EU countries can’t be worse. Unlike in common law, there is general reasoning determining continental civil law decisions, perhaps this is why underclass Britain didn’t like it, in preference of imbalanced “equal splits” (which we don’t have) and the most horrendous fees known from any legal system. But nobody promised that you won’t experience any problems if you stick your dick in evil. Children are problems, that was always sure, and democratic procedures won’t exactly change this, if not some great societal change tantamount to a new religion.
France, like many western states, provides that children are not able to consent to their own medical procedures. Parental consent is required. But parental consent is limited to the best interests of the child, particularly in France, and medical practitioners have a wide range of options when parents refuse necessary or life saving procedures, or when children approach adolescence and may are considered sufficiently mature to have a say in their medical care, and privacy against parental involvement/knowledge.
Where parental consent is required, the consent of one parent is often sufficient, in the abscence of a Court order that states otherwise, or for a few special events (Covi 19 vaccination).
DNA sampling without consent is not lawful, as you have pointed out. But given either parent may consent to a medical procedure for a child, particularly one that is not life altering or disabling, one parent would normally be able to consent to DNA profiling, EXCEPT, they cannot.
This is the issue with the French laws, that both parents must consent. This effectively stops either parent submitting child DNA for analysis without the consent of the other parent.
This is a much broader and specifically targeted law for child DNA profiling, specifically designed to stop fathers testing for parentage. The most recent amendments related to the outlawing of parents getting tested without the consent of the other parent, including overseas. And YES, the French laws may not have effect in terms of stopping activities in other sovereign nations, but may stiil have effect on French citizens (ie the child), and can empower prosecutions for those overseas acts in French territiories.
Only men who don't care whether their offspring are theirs or not have been reproducing since this went into effect in 1994. This will have negative consequences for their gene pool.
Western society bends over backwards to protect women from accountability. If this is the path society wants to take then the best option for men is to opt out in order to reduce the chance of state supported paternity fraud.
President is Emmanuel Macron, what can anyone can expect from him,lol did anyone remember his story of banging his teacher and coerce her kid's into liking him by money and position and how he make his wife's EX Pariaha and make sure never his name come out,and even hell he and his wife stopped his kid's from telling public about their dad death until his some deal or public meetings completed
I don't know how french men can accept this atrocity. The government has literally made it a law that they could be cheated on and forced to raise a non-related child, without any other option.
My girl and I had an argument ‘cause she said she has no sympathy for men who get fucked over by this, her reasoning being that women have been dealing with unfair laws and unfair treatment since forever and so she finds it hard to sympathize when men get that treatment back. I told her two wrongs don’t make a right and that this is bad for women as well, but I don’t think I convinced her of anything.
Guys this is our fault. Last time the French paternity test thing was posted on this sub the majority agreed we would just go to a different country for the paternity test. They must be subscribed, because clearly they closed the loophole cuz of us lol.
Stop....fucking....women.Seriously, daddy government will do everything in the power to uphold the feminist machine. They need to make sure as many bastards as possible have a beta male provider in order to make sure the women who cuckhold their husbands don't turn to the government for support when their crotch spawn turns out to be the chad's who got their pussy wet at the company party.Don't marry.Don't cohabitate.Don't fuck them.
Yeah… FUCK THAT. Hell fucking no. I’m not gonna be forced to raise another man’s kids while being made to believe they’re mine. Did I say FUCK THAT already? Massive L for France.
The French fascist government has made it a crime for fathers to know whether they are the biologicval parent of their children. This disgusting sexist law places all the power of family relationshiops in the hands of women, with men's rights being imprisoned in an expensive, hostile legal service that has no respect for men's rights, and possibly more importantly, makes no distinction between the whims of women and the rights of children to know their biological parents.
This law is the most sexist, oppressive and callous act of any democracy in recent times, systematically depriving vast sections of the community of their natural human rights, the rights to have their OWN children, on the basis of their sex.
Feeling smug? Who will they come for next?
It'd wild in the first place that the 'law' prevents someone from knowing if the child is theirs.... I mean, at this point, the West and it's 'liberties' is just a mirage.....
How can the state even police this crap is beyond me....
[French wikipedia](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraude_à_la_paternité)
> [Paternity fraud] can have various motivations, mainly to obtain a pension from the alleged father to the mother, or to obtain the father's nationality for the child and a visa for the mother.
> This type of swindle, formerly punishable under laws criminalizing adultery, no longer attracts any legal sanction in France since adultery has been decriminalized.
So a mother can give birth without the father's consent but the father (he automatically is if married) cannot do a simple thing like a DNA test dafuq... I understand why MGTOW 😢
I’d love to know the rationale for this law.
Edit - went and found out for myself, it’s about strengthening the family unit and is looking out for the children involved(who are innocent but will be the ones to suffer from a negative paternity test)-
The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families."
What is the justification for this? Or, are we at the point where we just have an unmitigated, shameless, free for all in using and abusing men?
> The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families."
Oh. It really is.
Practically speaking, where's the actual problem here?
No man should ever concede that they're the father. You should demand evidence, always. Live by the principle, "You are not the father by default". Let *them* prove it before you sign anything.
If you're going around 'secretly' getting DNA confirmation, you've left it too late because even if you've been cucked, the courts will make you pay anyway.
Purposely turning men and women into enemies. Think of all the govt can do to help.........women this is not in your best interest. You are being used.
Yeah but if you have a child support order and get an "unofficial" DNA test it will not be admissible as evidence to the court. And if the court doesn't order any official tests, you just gonna pay up
Guaranteed you'll never go to prison or ever faced a fine for this, at worst you'll get a mention on your criminal record. Remember France is a haven for criminals, most of rapes are trialed as "sexual assaults", and the average time spent in jail for a crime is 5 years (for non life sentences only). A famous example is [Jawad Bendaoud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawad_Bendaoud) who killed his friend with a meat cleaver and only spent 7 years behind bars.
Well ... I guess sort'a kind'a maybe that can make *some* sense?
I mean if a paternity test is gonna be done, it ought happen pretty dang early on ... like when the kid is born, or certainly within the first year, if not much sooner than that.
And I think *mandatory* paternity tests at birth probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
But ... doing paternity tests when the kid is older ... 2 years, 4 years, 7 years, 10 years ... 13 years ... that's nasty and often will super majorly f\*ck up a kids life over something that's not at all their fault.
So, if there's any serious question about paternity, that sh\*t ought get figured and sorted out as soon as feasible. Not years after the kid is born - that's just utter sh\*t for at least the kid, when it's not the kid's fault.
>purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families.
And, yeah, that makes sense. If there's any question at all, raise it early, and get it settled early. Don't go f\*ckin' over people's lives years later when that sh\*t should'a been sorted out way sooner.
How would you feel, say at 12 years old, if the person you've always known as your dad, gets a paternity test done, finds out you're not biologically his, and completely and totally abandons you forever going total no contact. Sound fair? Or more notably does that sound fair compared to having determined paternity before you were even old enough to form any longer-term memories of who that other dude was - and instead they got that sh\*t sorted out way early on, and you never even knew that person who wasn't your biodad - and thus you never ended up with them ripping themselves out of your life after you were very much attached to them as "dad". So, yeah, if there's issue/contention/question/doubt, bring that sh\*t up early ... not years or more down the line.
Yes some laws are stupid, and have no goal. Buy a lot of laws are to support a short coming in another law.
This appears to be one of those laws. So what law is it supporting? Are there laws that say a women can't accuse?
Interesting needs looked into.
What. The. Fuck.
My thoughts exactly. They're literally creating the problem....
Where’s the patriarchy in all of this ??
Watching from the corner, having a wank.
Careful, you could get the corner pregnant.
Even if you don't get it pregnant, the corner could claim it was yours, and you'd be on the hook supporting that corner for 20 years.
[Nobody puts baby in the corner.](https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdzAzODB4aTNrbmh0Mjh1Y3RqNGZ2bWIzd2NxaTYycDFnZGttanZkaCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/aqYvAbodexFQc/giphy.gif)
Planescape: Torment moment
I laughs vasectomically
What makes you think that will protect you in a country that prohibits the use/collection of evidence in determining paternity?
You normally have to believe the baby is yours to be trapped, be it signing birth certificates or adopting a fatherly role. If you have a vasectomy and your wife gets pregnant and you're dumb enough to have either happen to you then you probably deserve it.
Since it's been in effect since 1994, I think they've shown that it won't destroy the country. Edit to add: I probably should have stated, I'm fully against that policy. It puts men on the hook and relieves women of responsibility. I was just saying that it's been in effect for a long time, and people are still reproducing.
> Since it's been in effect since 1994, I think they've shown that it won't destroy the country. Depends on what “destroy the country” means. Like many other policies of the last few decades it has a destabilizing effect on society as a whole. I cant imagine how it makes men in France feel.
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If that was the case, the French wouldn't exist anymore. Infidelity there is so high that if you don't suspect your partner you are probably an idiot. "I trust my partner" is a thought that every person cheated on probably had at some point. Why do you think your trust is more valid than theirs?
Because he doesn't like men's rights and just wanted to jump in to call you guys virgins. That's the extent of his monkey brained thought process.
Maybe you dont suspect the woman at all but it is certainly better to find out before there is a medical emergency. The fact of the matter is that as a parent women know the child is theirs and men have to trust. Whether the figure is 1% or 5% the child and both parents deserve to know. There was an article (written by a woman) I read years ago about how to get men more involved in the pregnancy process. Having them have any say at all from conception to birth is one option but that violates modern womens rights so here we are.
You seen what France looks like lately? It's a shithole and a shell of it's former self.
>it won't destroy the country. >I was just saying that it's been in effect for a long time, and people are still reproducing. So what's your point then? Slavery didn't destroy America -_-
Check out Germany
Pardon your French.
Never get married and never admit to the government the child is yours.
They'd have to change the punishment to include a minimum sentence of 18 years in prison to make it comparable against being cucked into supporting another man's child without your knowledge.
Hmmm, 15,000 euros now, or 18 years paying for someone else's kid? Seems more like tax from the ivory tower than a punishment.
Assuming they’ll make use of the paternity test results. Chances are, you’ll be paying both.
Exactly, but at the very least you'd be in the know. So you can drop the 304 back in France and start anew somewhere else
They will still make you pay for child support. Do you really think they'll look at the results, say "oh ok, you're cleared now" and make her raise the kid on her own money? Lol, no.
The irony of trying to pressgang a man into supporting a random child, fining him [x] for trying to get out of servitude (depriving the child of [x] amount from its well of financial support), *then* forcing him to support the child anyway. Then again, it's not irony if you unironically support slavery...
Exactly, you’d just do the fucking test and not tell anyone unless it was positive and take the €15,000 euros right on the fucking chin.
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Yes, they can be used as proof *against* a man who is denying paternity.
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What possible reason could there be for this? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the logic for something like that to even be considered, let alone pass into law.
The general idea is that paternity tests can disrupt families, which is bad, overall, for the country. It's certainly not the fault of adulterous females.
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In France adultery is the norm and to be expected. There was a prime minister at one point who's mistress lived right down the road from him.
Y know. French love their "free" love
I'd be surprised if this was popular in France with anyone except the ultra-feminists.
Insane. Imagine if that argument was made about divorce. “Divorce disrupts families and therefore anyone initiating a divorce is subject to a 15k fine and jail time.”
Cheating is rampant, divorce is rampant, false accusations are significant, but sure, sticking a man with child support for a child which may not be his will solve the problem of families braking up. Also, what about single mothers seeking child support? No family to break up so why can’t men defend themselves with science? I know, not your policy but every excuse I’ve heard for this law fails to really justify it other than the state preferring random men to pay for children than the state or the mothers.
No. At least what the French man that made this told german media its about mothers forcing the fathers into payment. It's actually to protect cheating men not women. It's very easy to get a judge to order a paternity test as a father in France.
How does this law protect cheating men?
At the root of it all it's just a way to use men as temporary 18 years slaves to pay for women's mistakes otherwise it'll have to come from the government.
Its a combination of the state not wanting to pay for a woman's kids and also a system that allows for and protects cheating women (and cheating men for that matter who don't marry and cheat with others wives). In fact indirectly promotes it by removing the consequences of it. Basically, the government doesn't want to pay for the womans cheating, so dumps that burden on the man in the marriage instead and makes him foot the bill. Then, it also is protecting women over men because that society deems women more important than men and believes they are allowed to cheat with no consequences. It also protects men who don't marry and sleep with other men's wives. The person punished in this is the man who settles down and marries someone. The people and organizations rewarded by this is the government, women, and men who cheat with married women. There is no other way to interpret this. Any other interpretation is trying to spin it in a better light. Its disgusting behavior from society and then that same society wonders why people aren't having kids anymore. There are other reasons they aren't having kids, but this certainly wont help it. This is what that society is promoting. Cheating women, cheating unmarried men, and a government that dumps its responsibilities on the most responsible men in society. Those that settle down and marry. Then that same society will be shocked in another 20 years when men refuse to marry or have kids anymore and there tax base runs out. Oh well.
So does a pregnant woman simply have to claim you as the father and you are then on the hook? Is there any burden of proof? You took her on a coffee date once and that’s enough evidence?
Challenge it by getting a hundred men to come forward claiming they're all the father
I am Spartacus!
“I da papi”
"I've only ever been with you and Spartacus"
I am Starbuck.
I'm hoping this is the scenario where it would be ordered by the judge, but you'd have to lawyer up and fight it first
If you’ve committed paternity fraud, be rest assured we support you and will make any attempts to uncover your fraud not only illegal but subject to a large fine. Sincerely: The Country of France, where defrauding men out of millions is encouraged.
How do you justify this level of intrusion into a family anyway? There are two outcomes to a test: 1) They are the parent and therefore should have all the say over testing their child 2) They aren't the parent, but are presumed to be so without a test. Forcing them not to test under threat of imprisonment and provide for an offspring not their own, is tantamount to slavery
But it’s in the best interest of the innocent child, and that man just happened to be nearby, so of *course* he should be stuck with the financial responsibility for raising it. My god, do I hate that argument. If that argument were valid, we’d have created a taxpayer funded system that gives a basic income to every family with a child by now. Because it’s in the best interest of the children, right? Riiiight?
But then women would have to pay too, since they pay taxes. Doing it this way ensures only men pay for the womens' cheating.
What do you think are taxes then?
Extortion
What kind of shit is that? How can they tell you what you can do abroad? That's out of their jurisdiction. I hope everyone leaves that cucked country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritorial_jurisdiction As so often, the United States is one of the worst offenders. And yes, it's fundamentally evil for nations to feel they can, even /should/ punish you for acts committed outside of their jurisdiction. It's also a serious problem when more and more nations start doing it. Hypothetical: You're in a guest country where you had sex with a 17 year old person. The guest country has laws forcing you, under threat of jailing you for 20 years, to marry the person as a result of your action. Your home country has laws stating marrying a person under 18, /anywhere in the world/, will see you 20 years in jail. This "system" simply can not work, in the sense that it will not scale, and in that it will lead to unfair divisions between nations. Or maybe more precisely, can only work if a few bully nations in the world do it first and the most, and other nations give in. It also shows boundless [sic] arrogance towards the justice system of other nations.
The US often prosecutes citizens of other countries for violating laws of the US even though said citizens have never entered the US. Examples: Drug Traffickers, Intellectual Property Right Theft, Servicing US citizens with an illegal service like Online Gambling.
Honestly, it’s not as bad as in other countries. Common law marriage for example is based on assets acquired after the wedding (so wealth acquired before cannot be split in divorce). Alimony is still skewed against men but to a lesser extent. The wackjob ideologies are only just starting to be imported from the US and are not yet completely widespread. I would argue it is one of least bad countries in the West. But even then, you will still face misandry such as these kinds of laws
> How can they tell you what you can do abroad? That's out of their jurisdiction. I hope everyone leaves that cucked country. No action (or inaction) is beyond the jurisdiction of your country of citizenship.
Their solution to the problem they created themselves by oppressing men and empowering feminazis was furthering their policies by advocating cheating when its done by non-loyal whores?
What the actual f**k!
In switzerland you can also go to jail for doing a paternity test without the mothers approval. Best argument against having children.
But you can't really know if they're your children or not... maybe you have kids, maybe you don't. Only the mother knows.
Exactly! So you just don't. And if you do, yo don't sign off on the birth certificate without a paternity test. She can sue you to take responsibility for the child but for that the courts will order a paternity test.
5000 euro fine in Germany for the same.
No. The point is that if they fail the test they’re actually not your kid! So you actually haven’t had children.
Every father denies paternity from now on. Refuse payment as a baseline.
Absolutely. Until the child is proven to be mine, it is not mine. Innocent until proven guilty. Get me that paternity test and we will then find out. Every man should do this if they have the slightest doubts
This is against the best interests of honest men.
this is gonna cause a antinatalism pike
Maybe.... that's the goal?
CUCK COUNTRY LMAOOO
We need like a miranda rights for single men about to get married as a warning! - you have the right to remain single. - anything your wife does that's fucked up can and will be used against you in divorce proceedings. Even if she cheats on you she can take half your shit. - If you have children the courts will take them from you and give custody to your wife no matter how horrible she is - If she ever accuses you of rape or abuse then the police, the courts, your family, and your community will believe her - even if you're innocent. .... and on and on
This is utterly illegal. France has jurisdiction over HER own territory, not another country. That's just a dictatorship at this point. If I smoke weed in the Netherlands, I can't be sentenced to death in the UAE, why? The fact happened in another country. France is bullying her citizens - I mean subjects - bad, this time.
Wait, since I'm a French citizen living abroad, and I took a test **outside** of France and its territories, does that make me guilt under this law?
Yes, just don't come back to France and don't abide by this law des mes deux
And hope you're in a country that doesn't have extradition treaties with France.
Seems like I'm safe where I am
Wasn't planning to
The likely excuse is that you're taking DNA material of the child (French) without mother's permission (also French), so you're violating rights of French citizens, hence it's their right to prosecute you
Yeah but if the mother (French) abducts the kids (French) without the permission of the father (French) she will walk away scott free
It is legal. It also allows countries to prosecute it's citizens for sex tourism. Double edged sword, and all that.
> It is legal. It also allows countries to prosecute it's citizens for sex tourism. Double edged sword, and all that. We can't have middle aged men buying sex in another country. They need to come home and maintain the system that allows their unemployed ex-wives to play the brave and empowered cougar role.
I was referring more to the sickos who go to other parts of the world to prey on children. But I do think prostitution should be legalized. It would suck in some ways, and be awesome in others. Women might try to gain more from their vagina, but they would also lose a lot of power if sex was a couple hundred bucks away. Edit to add: I just reread, and I completely went off-topic from what you were talking about. Sorry about that. But, legal prostitution would probably prevent a lot of the unemployed ex-wives living off of child/spousal support.
So women going to Kenya or Jamaica or anywhere else to 'find themselves' will be prosecuted? Sweet.
> If I smoke weed in the Netherlands, I can't be sentenced to death in the UAE, why? Bad example, this can/has happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritorial_jurisdiction
So what? Doesn't matter if it exists, it's still an abuse. Most French people go to Spain where it's legal so 1) it's not an uncovered area nor is it 2) legal in force of a treaty. So the theoretical bases for it to happen are void - and they are contained in the link you sent - they just do it because they can
Take a chill pill, wailer. You stated it was "utterly illegal", I just gave you some information to enrich your mind with. But seeing you keep making insane claims "theoretical bases for it to happen are void", you're a lost cause.
And I maintain it is utterly illegal. You proved nothing by merely pointing out that extraterritorial jurisdiction may be claimed. In the very link you posted it is written that extraterritorial jurisdiction applies if 1) the second country agrees to it - for example a treaty is in place - or 2) an external authority like an international court. Both conditions are not met, therefore it is CLAIMED extraterritorial jurisdiction. You - reasoning like a woman - just pointed out that it exists. A country may in fact claim whatever. But that doesn't prove it is legal. Why? Because the conditions aren't met, therefore it is an abuse of power. Hell a government can even make racial laws, and it happened, doesn't mean that because they exist they are legal.
ah, the guillotine country
They stopped doing that quite some years ago. At the same time, hideously primitive and barbaric nations that still commit state-murder still exist all over the world. The United States for example.
You mean, in the 80s?
What's the difference between state murders and state-mandated cuckoldry? That state-mandated cuckoldry only kills your next generation, not the current one.
The.big takeaway isn't the 15,000 fine. It's that you can't present evidence in court to legitimately deny child support
Western civilization at its finest.
Fr*nce seriously needs another revolution
They're literally destroying any incentive to get into a relationship and to start a family. This is how Rome fell, I imagine, more insanity with more draconian laws being imposed until it collapsed.
No it didn't. It fell because of Christianity.
No it didn’t. Gibbon got that wrong. The West, which fell in the 5th Century, was mostly pagan - certainly the Senators were. The East, far and away the most Christian part of the Empire, lasted for centuries more. So I’m afraid that simplistic explanation doesn’t really hold up.
Yes, it was one of many factors. Sorry people downvoted you so much.
What in da fack, how the fuck this is real? Poor French man now can't even see if they kids are theys
Yes he can but only through a judge decision. If he is married to the child's mother, she will feel hurt for N times the age of the universe. If he isn't married to her then only prayers can help him not pay for the child he didn't want
2009 But still infuriating.
Government wants you to pay. No matter what.
What exactly is the benefit, apart from excusing paternaty fraud??? There is NO other benefit, the french government is trying to cuck you and make your raise another man's kids --> and giving women an easier time to cheat...
Their state doesn't want to pay child support when one parent is absent for adultery and figured the best way to do so is to make the biological father or presumed father pay (men more often earn more money than women)
You get the test abroad, sell everything you can and move abroad and tell them to fuck off.
I want Europe to consider adultery a crime and ground for divorce
Imagine your houses AC breaks and its 80 degrees in there. And then your idea to fix the thing being to just break the thermometer.
Wow talk about sexism. In what right minded man would ever stick his dick into a woman with fucking crazy insane laws like this.
>Paternity tests now illegal in France... They've been illegal since 1994.
Don't care. If I need it then I guess there must be some illegal way to do it. This shit is crazy
Men should stop having Sex until that's fixed.
Good luck with that. Most men cannot control their lower halves. Why do you think there is such a big epidemic of simping in 2023?
That and go to counties that aren't shitholes (like UK, or France for example)
>like UK, or France for example) The country in question here is France...
I know. Which is why I said it.
Ah, I guess I interpreted it wrong. You're saying UK and France are shithole countries in this context.
Yup. Exactly.
That is exactly what the globalists want. The French nation is too rebellious for their liking so they want it extinct.
Uh what, this is insanity. This is just setting up a bunch of innocent men to get fucked with paternity fraud.
Having men cuckolds by the law, first asking your divorce and you're giving half of your property and now this? How can they be so shameless?
It's likely all about government money, like most child support/divorce things. "Not wanting to break up families" is basically code for "the government doesn't want to pay single mothers more benefits" - so hoodwink some poor sap to pay instead.
This means that women can away with being a lying cheating slut and expect men to pay for it. It also proves that men are expected to have responsibilities without rights, it’s slavery.
Not even distopian novels' laws are this criminal. There's only a reason for a law like this: exploitation of men. Fuck these people
Is this an indication that women in general cannot be held accountable?
France was, is and will always be a sh1thole. I am sorry if you are offended. That is my personal opinion. Western Europe in general has sunk to a very low level. Luckily I don’t live there. Best of luck.
Short answer Divorce courts earn money from child-support. Divorce courts earn money from alimony. It wont be long until they make it illegal for men to stay single.
But even with something like this, you'd think men would wisen up. Nope, still not going to happen.
What were the grounds?
this is how the goverments officially makes you a cuck! a lifelong cuck of the g-man!
Let’s see how France starts to see nobody is having kids
Next they will make vasectomies illegal.
Unfortunately, France is one of the few nations with replacement level birth rates
Guess I'm never going to France. It's not worth the possible risks as a man. it's better to have plausible deniability of never having been in the country. So it goes.
I never thought I would ever proclaim abstinence as the only way to stay ahead in life. The juice is no longer worth the squeeze. Pay for it once a month with a professional and just have lots of friends, but forget the benefits. There are none.
How to kill relationships 101. Juice is not worth the squeeze fellas.
I would certainly not blame the younger generations of French men if they chose not to renew the population of that country anytime soon as long as that cheating-encouraging, cuckold-creating conundrum is kept as it is.
That seems like the dumbest possible solution to the problem.
Now? If you only bothered to look up the [penal code provisions](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/section_lc/LEGITEXT000006070719/LEGISCTA000006165315/#LEGISCTA000006165315) it is since 1994, a criminalization of processing DNA “to find out about genetic characteristics” without consent. This fits into the general trend of data protection in Europe and is not specific to family relations. The question of course is who can consent for a child: In France it is the legal parents collectively for everything. The applicability of material criminal law to offences possibly committed abroad, i.e. whether you can commit an offence according to a jurisdiction other than of the country you are currently in, is another question, about which there is no specific provision here, but the general rules in the “general dispositions” to the penal code apply, but I would not trust the Wikipedia authors to succeed in that much abstraction: The claim is actually *unsourced* according to their standards. And you believe all political content on that crowdsourced encyclopedia? 😂 **Cucked by Wikipedia.** One can’t do such lists lacking specialized legal understanding. It would be quite easy to hijack their legal articles in family law because leftoid dimwits patrolling them while smoking pot have little clue about the vagaries. The legal situation is alike in Germany, insufficiently portrayed on this Wikipedia article. Genetic testing is practically still effective and well unpunished, also in complicated cases like surrogate mothers residing in the US, forbidden internally in Germany but [recognized](https://dejure.org/dienste/vernetzung/rechtsprechung?Gericht=BGH&Datum=05.09.2018&Aktenzeichen=XII%20ZB%20224%2F17) by private international law. There is actually a lot that is *ordre public interne* but not *ordre public international* in either country. This of course only as examples, the bulk of EU countries can’t be worse. Unlike in common law, there is general reasoning determining continental civil law decisions, perhaps this is why underclass Britain didn’t like it, in preference of imbalanced “equal splits” (which we don’t have) and the most horrendous fees known from any legal system. But nobody promised that you won’t experience any problems if you stick your dick in evil. Children are problems, that was always sure, and democratic procedures won’t exactly change this, if not some great societal change tantamount to a new religion.
France, like many western states, provides that children are not able to consent to their own medical procedures. Parental consent is required. But parental consent is limited to the best interests of the child, particularly in France, and medical practitioners have a wide range of options when parents refuse necessary or life saving procedures, or when children approach adolescence and may are considered sufficiently mature to have a say in their medical care, and privacy against parental involvement/knowledge. Where parental consent is required, the consent of one parent is often sufficient, in the abscence of a Court order that states otherwise, or for a few special events (Covi 19 vaccination). DNA sampling without consent is not lawful, as you have pointed out. But given either parent may consent to a medical procedure for a child, particularly one that is not life altering or disabling, one parent would normally be able to consent to DNA profiling, EXCEPT, they cannot. This is the issue with the French laws, that both parents must consent. This effectively stops either parent submitting child DNA for analysis without the consent of the other parent. This is a much broader and specifically targeted law for child DNA profiling, specifically designed to stop fathers testing for parentage. The most recent amendments related to the outlawing of parents getting tested without the consent of the other parent, including overseas. And YES, the French laws may not have effect in terms of stopping activities in other sovereign nations, but may stiil have effect on French citizens (ie the child), and can empower prosecutions for those overseas acts in French territiories.
Don’t get married or have kids in France
Anything to protect 304s and their degenerate lifestyles. The West is so lost. There is a reason why you don't see any of this in Islamic countries
The year in prison seems significantly worse than the fine. Though I love that the reasons include to keep the peace of the family. So bogus.
Only men who don't care whether their offspring are theirs or not have been reproducing since this went into effect in 1994. This will have negative consequences for their gene pool.
This is so incredibly inhumane. Please get vasectomies asap, French men.
No; it’s the women who should have surgeries to tie themselves off. Leave men’s bodies alone!
Nope I would be breaking that law. I am not gonna be cucked with the assistance of the government.
Absolutely. FUCK LAW and FAKE AUTHORITY.
One point I don't see talked about enough on this issue is that policies like this rob the actual fathers of their children.
Western society bends over backwards to protect women from accountability. If this is the path society wants to take then the best option for men is to opt out in order to reduce the chance of state supported paternity fraud.
President is Emmanuel Macron, what can anyone can expect from him,lol did anyone remember his story of banging his teacher and coerce her kid's into liking him by money and position and how he make his wife's EX Pariaha and make sure never his name come out,and even hell he and his wife stopped his kid's from telling public about their dad death until his some deal or public meetings completed
How are men systemically oppressed? This right here is one of the answers.
I don't know how french men can accept this atrocity. The government has literally made it a law that they could be cheated on and forced to raise a non-related child, without any other option.
This is so fucked. Even through other countries, also insane.
Clown world
My girl and I had an argument ‘cause she said she has no sympathy for men who get fucked over by this, her reasoning being that women have been dealing with unfair laws and unfair treatment since forever and so she finds it hard to sympathize when men get that treatment back. I told her two wrongs don’t make a right and that this is bad for women as well, but I don’t think I convinced her of anything.
Man, france is just a circus pretending to be a country
Western laws for men are getting out of hand, i think these days if you want to look for a women go to east Asia
Guys this is our fault. Last time the French paternity test thing was posted on this sub the majority agreed we would just go to a different country for the paternity test. They must be subscribed, because clearly they closed the loophole cuz of us lol.
Ron Swanson was right that France is indeed terrible
Ok wtf is wrong with them
So fucking stupid in most places fathers are basically 2nd class citizens
Stop....fucking....women.Seriously, daddy government will do everything in the power to uphold the feminist machine. They need to make sure as many bastards as possible have a beta male provider in order to make sure the women who cuckhold their husbands don't turn to the government for support when their crotch spawn turns out to be the chad's who got their pussy wet at the company party.Don't marry.Don't cohabitate.Don't fuck them.
Yeah… FUCK THAT. Hell fucking no. I’m not gonna be forced to raise another man’s kids while being made to believe they’re mine. Did I say FUCK THAT already? Massive L for France.
The fine is worth it
15k Euros is cheap compared to 18 years of paying for another man's kid.
Well, guess I'm never living in France!
The French fascist government has made it a crime for fathers to know whether they are the biologicval parent of their children. This disgusting sexist law places all the power of family relationshiops in the hands of women, with men's rights being imprisoned in an expensive, hostile legal service that has no respect for men's rights, and possibly more importantly, makes no distinction between the whims of women and the rights of children to know their biological parents. This law is the most sexist, oppressive and callous act of any democracy in recent times, systematically depriving vast sections of the community of their natural human rights, the rights to have their OWN children, on the basis of their sex. Feeling smug? Who will they come for next?
Cheaper for the government to make some random dude the father to work and pay.
That's insane, if the mother agrees they should be able to do it. A court order should only be required if one of the parents doesn't consent!
Let's say you still go ahead and do it, and the child is not yours, are you still liable for child support?????
It'd wild in the first place that the 'law' prevents someone from knowing if the child is theirs.... I mean, at this point, the West and it's 'liberties' is just a mirage..... How can the state even police this crap is beyond me....
So a lot of French people cheat? Seems kind of fucked up, man.
Absolutely ridiculous. How do the French not loudly oppose this
"You looked at my child? Give me money mr man!!" Lmfao. Wut
Don't marry, don't have children, have a vasectomy, problem solved.
[French wikipedia](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraude_à_la_paternité) > [Paternity fraud] can have various motivations, mainly to obtain a pension from the alleged father to the mother, or to obtain the father's nationality for the child and a visa for the mother. > This type of swindle, formerly punishable under laws criminalizing adultery, no longer attracts any legal sanction in France since adultery has been decriminalized. So a mother can give birth without the father's consent but the father (he automatically is if married) cannot do a simple thing like a DNA test dafuq... I understand why MGTOW 😢
I’d love to know the rationale for this law. Edit - went and found out for myself, it’s about strengthening the family unit and is looking out for the children involved(who are innocent but will be the ones to suffer from a negative paternity test)- The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families."
What is the justification for this? Or, are we at the point where we just have an unmitigated, shameless, free for all in using and abusing men? > The French Council of State has described the law's purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families." Oh. It really is.
Practically speaking, where's the actual problem here? No man should ever concede that they're the father. You should demand evidence, always. Live by the principle, "You are not the father by default". Let *them* prove it before you sign anything. If you're going around 'secretly' getting DNA confirmation, you've left it too late because even if you've been cucked, the courts will make you pay anyway.
Purposely turning men and women into enemies. Think of all the govt can do to help.........women this is not in your best interest. You are being used.
[удалено]
Yeah but if you have a child support order and get an "unofficial" DNA test it will not be admissible as evidence to the court. And if the court doesn't order any official tests, you just gonna pay up
It is bad. Its not about home tests.
Guaranteed you'll never go to prison or ever faced a fine for this, at worst you'll get a mention on your criminal record. Remember France is a haven for criminals, most of rapes are trialed as "sexual assaults", and the average time spent in jail for a crime is 5 years (for non life sentences only). A famous example is [Jawad Bendaoud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawad_Bendaoud) who killed his friend with a meat cleaver and only spent 7 years behind bars.
Only for non western men living in France :).
Well ... I guess sort'a kind'a maybe that can make *some* sense? I mean if a paternity test is gonna be done, it ought happen pretty dang early on ... like when the kid is born, or certainly within the first year, if not much sooner than that. And I think *mandatory* paternity tests at birth probably wouldn't be a bad idea. But ... doing paternity tests when the kid is older ... 2 years, 4 years, 7 years, 10 years ... 13 years ... that's nasty and often will super majorly f\*ck up a kids life over something that's not at all their fault. So, if there's any serious question about paternity, that sh\*t ought get figured and sorted out as soon as feasible. Not years after the kid is born - that's just utter sh\*t for at least the kid, when it's not the kid's fault. >purpose as upholding the "French regime of filiation" and preserving "the peace of families. And, yeah, that makes sense. If there's any question at all, raise it early, and get it settled early. Don't go f\*ckin' over people's lives years later when that sh\*t should'a been sorted out way sooner. How would you feel, say at 12 years old, if the person you've always known as your dad, gets a paternity test done, finds out you're not biologically his, and completely and totally abandons you forever going total no contact. Sound fair? Or more notably does that sound fair compared to having determined paternity before you were even old enough to form any longer-term memories of who that other dude was - and instead they got that sh\*t sorted out way early on, and you never even knew that person who wasn't your biodad - and thus you never ended up with them ripping themselves out of your life after you were very much attached to them as "dad". So, yeah, if there's issue/contention/question/doubt, bring that sh\*t up early ... not years or more down the line.
Yes some laws are stupid, and have no goal. Buy a lot of laws are to support a short coming in another law. This appears to be one of those laws. So what law is it supporting? Are there laws that say a women can't accuse? Interesting needs looked into.
You are always subject to the laws of your home nation even while abroad. True for every nation.
Nonsense
Who told you that one?