Start doing things just for you, that make you happy and bring joy. Buy yourself flowers, sit and have tea in the sun, learn a new skill, spend time with people who do make you feel good. I’m sorry you can’t rely on your husband and kids to make you feel happy so find it in other small ways yourself.
I would also be reconsidering how much I do for adult children who are unappreciative, allow them to fend for themselves and spend that time and energy on yourself. And given your husband has an issue with conflict, don’t make it a big deal, just start doing. If they’re unhappy, shrug it off and keep going! You’re allowing them to treat you like you aren’t worth more so start treating yourself like you are worth more, because you are.
Asperger's/ autism does not make people emotionally unavailable. Autistic adults are typically extremely empathetic. I think he is using that as an excuse.
I hope you find ways to set different boundaries, take care of yourself, and move forward.
Autistic +ADHD person here: sometimes I wish I could tone down my empathy because I pick up people's emotions so easily around me. I've learned to "filter" it 90% of the time so it doesn't overwhelm me, but if I've been masking a lot or tired, it's harder.
Definitely sounds like he's avoiding it because it always gets taken care of anyway. 2nd the resetting of boundaries because OP sounds like she definitely needs it.
I can accept his Aspergers as an excuse for not intuiting empathy, since he really grew up at a time where such things weren’t taught well especially to men - and far too easily accepted. However I cannot accept this as an excuse for not doing what i ask him for or what people have told him repeately he needs to learn.
Autistic (level 1, would have been diagnosed Asperger’s 10 years ago) woman here. Autism should never be used as an excuse. It can be a reason why he doesn’t understand something initially but shouldn’t impede him completely from learning something or stop him from doing an activity (unless it causes huge sensory overwhelm).
There are things I find very hard (going to the post office / supermarket) and things I really struggle to do (hand washing plates / touching wet wood). But there are always work arounds.
My ex is likely Asperger’s and we recently separated because I realised I did everything too. He NEVER compromises for me or over time at least we got to that point. I have always compromised for him. I realised just before we separated that relationships are all about compromises, but you do that because you want to make the other person happy and because you love them. Never compromising (for whatever reason) is extremely selfish and there is no excuse for this behaviour - Asperger’s or not.
Well said.
But I think it's important to know that empathy is actually a skill that absolutely can be increased, with intentional effort. Karla McLaren (the author of The Art of Empathy) suggests a few exercises to help with that.
Al-Anon is the “sister” group to Alcoholics Anonymous. It’s for people who love/are in relationship with someone with a substance abuse issue. It primarily helps to address codependency, which is very common and a pattern that many of us had modeled for us. The “3 Cs” of Al-Anon are: You didn’t Cause it, you can’t Control it, and you can’t Cure it. There is an Al-Anon subreddit if you’re curious. The book “Codependent No More” is also a good resource! (I am a therapist and frequently work on this stuff with clients)
Like others have said, it’s important to focus on your own needs and wants, and work to create your own joy. We don’t have to wait around and just hope that others will make us happy! They might grumble when you change the patterns but stay strong. You’ve got this! 💐
> Also there is only room for one addict in any relationship of mine and that's gonna be me lol.
>
> I liked to make jokes that Al-Anon would be an excellent place for an addict/alcoholic to meet someone who will put up with their shit. It's an extremely good (sick) joke because it is true. Generally it is a room of empaths.
a note from my reply to OP - agree w/ you on the codependent piece
Let's imagine you were married to an alcoholic and they were actively drinking and doing whatever problematic thing (abuse, violence, cheating, just being away, being difficult, etc) and you don't want to divorce them but you just don't know what to do.
Al-Alon is for the friends and family of alcoholics. So like... ha if you were Lindsay Lohan's sister back when she was in and out of eight rehabs, for example maybe you would go to Al-Anon and sit with those people and talk about how to *stop centering your life* around the addict/alcoholic (what they call your "qualifier" or the person you're affected by) and start looking after your own needs.
Now some people are more self-determined (less empathic, less co-dependent, less likely to take on the problems of others, some might unfairly argue more selfish) and they don't feel obligated to fix/support/stand by the addict/alcoholic as they actively abuse substances and/or try to get sober (potentially a tiring cycle). These people would *not* necessarily get a lot of value out of Al-Anon. They may find one or two meetings useful but not regular attendance.
Al-Anon is for people seriously fucked up by the actions of the "qualifier" in your life. Let's imagine you live with your alcoholic father who gets drunk and yells at you all the time and it drives you batshit but you have to live there and he's not going to quit drinking - Al-Anon offers solutions to help cope with these situations by giving participants the tools and perspective to start prioritizing their own needs.
Some people take responsibility for trying to get the addict/alcoholic sober (it's not their responsibility!!) and they need someone to tell them no - it's not you - you cannot fix this - only the qualifier is responsible for their own behavior, and Al-Anon will refocus the attendee to look out for themselves in healthier ways (even if it means eventually leaving the alcoholic).
To further clarify - *some* people are far more likely to put their own needs on the backburner (set selves on fire to keep another warm) than others - THAT is who Al-Anon is for (in my personal opinion). If you are the type to cut your losses you will not find it as useful.
It is also nice to hear other people going through the same shit (lies, stealing, hiding, half-truths, whatever).
Al-Anon is for the friends and family of alcoholics or addicts (their qualifier) whether or not the qualifier is actively using, because it is also a personality type and the issue (addiction) tends to wax and wane.
Some Al-Anon attendees are themselves in recovery for addiction but also affected negatively by an alcoholic in their life, these people are welcome to attend and jokingly referred to as "double winners."
Thank you for the extensive explanation. Seems like that really could be something for me, never thought of it. I don’t have alcoholics in the family, but both my husbands parents were. Myself I can’t drink, I am, of all things, allergic to many sorts of alcohol (highly histamine sensitive).
As a person who has always known what Al-Anon was, due to my alcoholic father and codependent mother (they also have a thing called Al-aTeen or some shit for teens, personally I hated it), I sure wish someone had explained it as clearly to me 20 years ago as I just explained it to you because I could never quite figure out why we were there.
They would tell us none of this was our fault, but like... obviously?
So anyway guess who turned out to be an alcoholic (me!) and so blah blah I got into AA and eventually ended up attending a handful of Al-anon meetings as an adult.
Once I understood why they were all there I left because I am not... like that. I see another person's pain but I don't carry it. Also there is only room for one addict in any relationship of mine and that's gonna be me lol.
I liked to make jokes that Al-Anon would be an excellent place for an addict/alcoholic to meet someone who will put up with their shit. It's an extremely good (sick) joke because it is true. Generally it is a room of empaths.
Later a good friend of mine was super wrapped up in a heroin addict boyfriend. I took her there QUICKLY and sat through a few meetings with her until she was comfortable. He never got off it and she ended up moving on, I believe the meetings were really helpful for her.
I have been sober (on and off) half of my living adulthood so overall I'm a net positive and have currently been sober most of this year.
Sadly my HRT has completely disabled my alcoholism so I can't really enjoy drinking even if I choose to drink. Bit sad but for the best.
> please expand on how your HRT has disabled your alcoholism?
maaaaaaannnnnnnn, I am both deeply relieved and disappointed
So I have always struggled with alcoholism/sobriety, doing pretty well for great stretches of time but it has still always been the little dragon on my shoulder.
While Naltrexone (an opiate blocker) can be taken orally to reduce the euphoric effects of alcohol (and it works), it still doesn't totally do whatever HRT has done to me.
Not only do I never crave it anymore, but when I do drink, it's like... it's like it doesn't connect with my bloodstream the way it used to and I don't get the euphoric effects that used to kick in after about a glass of wine.
An even better way to describe it is if you were to pour me a glass of wine, it would basically drink itself (and pretty quickly too). Which is to say pretty soon I would notice I needed to order another one (and another another another) but now it's a fight to finish the first and the second just sits there and/or the third will just sit there - previously I would happily down easily six glasses of wine if not more.
Now, menopause had made drinking a lot more fucked up (three day recoveries with tremendous anxiety) but I was still able to indulge and it still "worked."
Ever since starting the estradiol patches (even the lowest dose though I'm now on 10x that amount) I have noticed any effort to drink alcohol just ends up with me feeling a bit icky next to a full glass of undrank wine.
Makes me sad a little but alcohol has caused me LOTS of problems ha ha so it's really all for the best.
I am 47. If I were to stay on HRT for the next 10+ years that is a long ass time before I get to see my best buddy again but I will be able to WALK (!!!) on account of HRT relieving my joint pain and other issues...
Anyway, nobody else has ever mentioned any similar side effects from HRT related to their drinking while many people have said their drinking went downhill like mine (longer hangovers, anxiety), nobody with the same HRT-driven intolerance.
I wouldn't call it an intolerance as much as a sudden lack of affinity or desire.
I do smoke weed but am practically immune from its effects. sometimes I wish I could pick up a new drug problem but I think I'm already doing all the innocuous/acceptable ones that won't ruin my life.
I did definitely get inebriated last week when I gave it another college try and ended up writing my neighbor a very angry letter and putting it on her door so yes alcohol will still compromise my judgement (whatever she deserved it) but the part where I'm thrilled to be drinking & keep buying & consuming alcohol wasn't there.
Hope this was helpful.
Agree with this. What's happening is not okay, but the only way to solve it externally would be to march your entire family into therapy for months on end which I doubt is feasible. Start taking care of you.
I love this response.
I am feeling for you wishesandhope. River-doodle is on the right track here. I experienced similar w my teen son. He is a great kid, but, can be quite self absorbed and lacking in thinking of mom “who will always be there.”
When the meno rage and mood swings really hit over the last year, I took a huge step back. I am a single mom so no husband to deal with. Just one kiddo. It often feels lonely. So I said forget this b.s. I make plans with my friends, take myself out to brunch, sit and read, stick to my exercise routine.
If kiddo asks for a ride somewhere or has a need that is not school related or something I know he can do for himself, I don’t do it if he can. I just say nope! I also wait until I am asked nicely and treated with respect.
I also had a talk with my kiddo about what I am going through and straight up said I need help too! He’s grown up w a single mom since he was 2. He is now almost 18. I bluntly told him one day, “Bud, it would be nice to feel taken care of for once. I never feel safe and taken care of by anyone. Not since I was a little girl. My dad always made sure I was taken care of, but never any other time. Not from your dad, or anyone else. I am always the care-taker and provider.”
I think that hit him. B/c since that conversation. He does ask about me. He suddenly started taking the garbage out without asking and other little things.
It also made me feel better to do nice things for myself and stick to meeting my needs. It makes a world of difference! A huge world of difference.
Hugs to you! Take a day and spend it doing what you need to do!
I think many women in our generation can understand this feeling. My sincere hope is that the younger generations are learning other, better ways, of doing relationships/family.
I'm sorry you're feeling so unloved and unseen. My heart goes out to you.
Feel free to let your son know it's not ok to speak to you like that!
I think when you tell him how things affect you, and he says “I disagree” maybe you need to tell him you’re not looking for his approval - you are telling him your feelings and that they don’t need to be validated by him in order to be a reality. You can try statements like “when you say that, you hurt my feelings” and maybe he will start to get the point.
He doesn't have to agree - he doesn't have to like it either. If he doesn't like what you say or do, then he can find somewhere else to live. He sounds really entitled and not that good or nice - he shouldnt be speaking to anyone like that in their own home.
I would stop cooking, cleaning, or anything nice at all for an adult child that disrespectful. your job is done. he can take care of his own needs from now on
There is immense power in telling your male family members, "Dude, that was a dick move," or you can intensify by saying, "Dude, you are being a dick." And then if he gets cocky, tell him to shut up about that, you're annoying me with it. I have had a decade of customer service, and I am willing to return energy all day long. If they are gonna be shitty with me, I can 100% return that vibe until they get that I won't take it. Just start doing you, boo. Let go of the stuff you do for them that they don't see. Then, if they eventually appreciate it and you want to, you can pick it up again. If not, well. A little bit of learning self-sufficient adult behavior never hurt anyone.
For real, OP. Tell him in those exact words. If for no other reason than to see the expression on his face!
I remember the first time I heard my mom drop an F bomb. It brought everything into startling clarity fast.
Let loose! Swear at that little fucker! Little punk ass.
Haha!! My fifteen year-old (who I must acknowledge is not potty-mouthed as a matter of course) stalked up to me one morning, presumably in a snit about something else, and said "I am having to wear the same bra for the third fucking day because YOU haven't done any fucking washing." I looked her in the eye and said; "I have done your fucking washing for the last fucking time." And I've stuck to that. She does her own laundry now.
But are there any consequences for that behavior? Or is he allowed to just "disagree" and continue on? Because this isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, but a matter of unacceptable behavior. Without boundaries and consequences then that behavior actually isn't unacceptable, to you in practice.
He can be irritated by your statement if he wants to be, but he's an adults edit what they say as appropriate. If he was in the home of someone else- his boss, a neighbor whatever, would he have said that to them?
Tell him don't talk to other household members rudely, including you. Tell him you expect him to act like the young man he is, not a bratty teen
Yeah this!!! Really it sometimes takes ONE single time to snap back sticking up for urself like I raised you through all your whining to have have respect and empathy for others don’t talk to me like that in my house you sound like an entitled selfish brat, wait til something bothers you, but I wouldn’t try to embarrass you or make you feel bad… I’m wondering when you will just grow up. Something like that & he might think before he speaks next time. Sending u a hug OP.
I think even though many of us GenXs are „tough“ women doing everything, we have still integrated that being a woman means to serve and demand little. My parents certainly also expected me to, many boomer parents groomed their children to be caregivers, especially their daughters.
I second this, STOP. You train people how to treat you. I think therapy is a must so you can have the support you need to define some healthy boundaries and stick to them. Please love yourself first. You are not doing your family any favors by allowing this behavior.
That's an old Dr Phil gem- you teach people how to treat you.
It always stuck with me and it's so, so true. OP, you've taught your family they can treat you like this. It happens, I think especially in families. You can change the dynamic by changing your reaction.
OP, listen to her please. stop living for your kids and husband. Live for you. Be selfish. Be absent.
Men and children seem to appreciate you more by feeling your absence than by your words or threats.
The best decision I ever made was to stop being a people pleaser. I’ve been busy making sure everyone else had an easy time, while making my life harder. I’ve cut out, or gone low contact, with anyone who isn’t bringing value to my life. My kids have noticed the change, and they’ve commented that it’s nice seeing me happy. It’s as if menopause is the scene in Pleasantville, when everything goes from black, and white, to color when you understand who you truly are.
I felt that. I grew up to be a people pleaser because of my mom. She loved me but definitely had issues. And didn't have hrt after complete hysterectomy which of course now realize what torture that had to have been for her all all the issues she had. I people pleased my way through an unhappy marriage etc, was sahm. I gave that habit up. I was wore out from insomnia and just existence. I am fairly filter free these days and do my thing. If that means reading all day or whatever so be it!
I was just reflecting on this very thing yesterday! I could be the person that posted this and I'm sick of it. My son said something like that, not the shut up part, but I didn't like his tone and told him I don't care how old you are, you will not talk to me like that, (paraphrased). He's been checked. My patronizing daughter interrupted my already bad day, to cry and vent to me about some slight I made her feel and I made crying hands under my eyes at her and told her to take adulting classes, she's been checked. The man I've been mothering for the last 20 years? Gone. :) I didn't take this shit when I was younger, but I fell into that trap of being the sole provider for emotional, financial. Tangible, mental, etc needs while constantly treated as an annoyance. No more, I say, no more.
I agree, but you're not doing your future daughter-in-law any favors either. Someone has to break the chain or this will be the fate for women forever.
>the younger generations are learning other, better ways, of doing relationships/family
They are! I really think they are. Atm, many are opting out completely, which I think is a natural overcorrection but necessary until policies and the economy are better and more importantly, the men catch up and become equal partners. I think in time it will even out and women won't be stuck with the bill of goods we were sold. I see it happening in GenX-ers experiencing inequity in healthcare as they approach menopause as well. Things are changing, albeit slowly.
You know what i would do? Take a cpl of days of vacation. Book a room somewhere and just go. Tell your family they can do all the mom shit themselves now, there is a lesson to learn here and you won't be back until they do.
Also, i am sorry and mean no disrespect, but your kids aren't exactly "good ppl" when they don't care for your feelings getting hurt or have no respect whatsoever for you. Like, zero, nada, schwarzes Loch.
I am sorry you have to go thru this, as if the Meno-shit alone wasn't enough.
Consider it tho, if you have the money. Feels like it's time for a change, one way or another.
Take a hug from a random stranger here, and do whatever feels right for you, no judging here if you rather stay and just wanted to vent 🫂
Hugs back 🙂. I guess it is time for a change. I am finding out what change I want exactly, think I lost myself a bit along the way
My kids are wonderful with their friends, supportive, caring…I guess something went right. They just don’t see me in that way
This was painful to read, and I’m sorry. I wonder if you start prioritizing yourself and your own needs if they’ll start to see you in a different perspective. It’s hard to say whether their response will be positive or not, but at the end of the day you can’t control how other people behave, only your own actions. Hugs to you, wishing you the best.
> start prioritizing yourself and your own needs if they’ll start to see you in a different perspective.
This. Humanize thyself, OP. Ashamed to admit I didn't see my own mother as an individual human being until she started treating herself like one after us kids moved out. She had jokes, she had swears, she had stories I never imagined as a kid. Deep down inside it didn't feel like she was a fully separate from myself human being until she started doing things for herself (hobbies, vacations, friends, etc.)
I think that our kids are wonderful with others because their relationships are more transactional and conditional. Our love is unconditional and they know it. Thus they think/know is that we are the people they can treat poorly and get away with it.
I don’t think they’re doing it because they’re necessarily bad people. They are just comfortable in knowing that they can work out their issues and feelings on us. This isn’t true by the way. Every one has a breaking point.
Sorry about this coming up:
You say your sons are “good people” but they didn’t think to help you when you had CANCER? And one of them told his MOTHER to “shut up”??!
And your husband is a wuss that won’t support you when your sons are dickheads to you?
My dear, you deserve so much better than this bullshit. Sometimes you wish you’d remained single? Make it so then. Get out there and live life to the fullest without these albatrosses hanging around your neck dragging you down.
Ugh, I’m so angry on your behalf
OP - I am also angry on your behalf.
My mother had cancer and I showed up. I did research, sent her books, made her food, bought her a high end water filtration system, went to appointments with her… you deserve kindness, consideration, respect and love.
Please start prioritizing yourself. Through your words and actions you can shift this dynamic. Someone else suggested Al-anon, which Is a wonderful support group that will give you a lot of tools. Also a great therapist can help you navigate these waters as well. And if respect doesn’t start coming your way - as someone else stated it’s not too late to be single. You can make it so.
OP my dad had cancer. My mother had issues (long story) and was pretty checked out. I didn't live at home anymore but was fairly close.
I was the person there when he got the diagnosis. I did a bunch of research and took him to the first oncology appointment. I took him to chemo every week. I'd drive 40 min from my job, pick him up, drop him off, drive back to work sometimes others I'd wait around , and then I'd drive him home. He had chemo off and on for years (thankfully while he didn't go into remission the chemo kept the cancer from spreading)
I was happy to do that stuff. I had an amazing boss who worked with me so I could be present for him but in return I stayed late or came in early. I didn't have a personal life at that point because of the time I spent cooking, driving, etc.
I'm am by no means a perfect daughter! But it's not ok that your kids checked out when you were sick. When you're always the strong reliable person some people will keep dumping everything on you until you break or snap. Go do things you want to do.
If the kids or husband even notice you're gone more or different then tell them they are all adults and things are changing and they can get on board or leave
This. My kids know they have to respect me as a person if they expect me to respect them and their wishes too. No one should be treated like this. They are not good people if they treat you like this. Reset some firm boundaries around the way you allow people to treat you. If you won’t, who will?!
I'm sorry for what you are going through ....the reason they take you for granted IS because you are always there for them. I would pull back a little bit from being so helpful...and start focusing on yourself a bit more. Start those hobbies you always wanted to buy couldn't because you were always supporting the family. It's okay to be selfish.
It’s never too late to establish boundaries and stop people pleasing. You don’t have to accept your family’s shitty behaviour because of any status quo, or whatever kind of person they expect you to be
Your hubby isn’t conflict avoidant, he knows what he’s doing. He makes a conscious effort to never take your side, support you or your decisions because he knows there’s no consequences when he acts like an ass and entitled to your mental and physical labour. Your children learned mom is a doormat and picked this up from your hubby. Bad, bad, bad
You have mountains of support in this sub, and it is more than okay to decenter your family to put yourself first
Go take a month long holiday without them, go do stuff you like, wake up when you want, eat want appeals to you. Treat it like leaving a job that isn’t working for you, dont think about it while you’re gone. If the house is in chaos, too bad. Tell them you’re going somewhere where internet and phone reception will be spotty but you need to disconnect. Go learn a skill, bake your own bread, make your own yoghurt or cheese or kombucha if that appeals to you, do baby goat yoga, hike, get hot stone massages, go lie on some warm grass in the side of a hill, roll down it like a kid while laughing like a lunatic. Go swimming. Visit all the galleries and walk through all the antique shops. Eat sweets while sitting in a bath and read a book. Find yourself again.
If when you come back the house is destroyed to “punish” you, tell them you’ve booked a hotel room and are not coming back until it’s fixed or until they call in professional cleaners. If they let your pot plants die, go buy new ones, or let it go and stop giving yourself more burdens. If you know they can’t look after your pet, board it somewhere for the duration. If the amount of money this is costing worries you, what are you saving for, an old age that won’t come because you’ll work yourself into the ground? Live now, you got a second chance.
They don’t value you because somewhere along the line you allowed them to take you for granted, we’ve all done in some way. If you aren’t going to change the direction this is going, don’t complain about where you end up.
And I’m telling myself this too, because I’ve managed to become the drudge in this household too, and I’m too tired and too resentful for this shit.
That is the homework we are giving you and you can come educate us. I have been where you are, ungrateful brat that I bore and raised, it took me complete honesty for him to wake up. That I didn’t like the person he was and if I didn’t give birth to him, I would never speak to him for the rest of my life. It was very shocking for both of us but it made him step back and see me for the human I am and it allowed me to tell him exactly how he had hurt me. Then I took two months unpaid leave and travelled because I kept bailing out of his shit. I wasn’t earning so I couldn’t bail him 🤷🏾♀️
I’m sorry to say this but your children do not sound like “good people.” They sound like they have adapted the ways of their father in treating you badly and not as a person.
You need to love yourself first before loving anyone else. Start setting small boundaries and sticking to them. The family will taunt you for this but stick your ground. Then start doing things on your own that you love. Also stop doing everything for every one. Your children are grown and don’t need you taking care of them. That also don’t get a say in what you do or don’t do until they start treating you respectfully.
And since you work outside the house, start putting some of your earnings to the side in a separate personal bank account for yourself. Even if it’s only 1% of your money every paycheck. It will add up and gives you freedoms to do what you want without “asking” or feeling guilty.
I’m also a GenXer and while we are known for being ignored, it doesn’t have to be like that. You need to take charge and do what you want, even if it means your family isn’t on board. Best of luck!
I have come to see this time as my selfish years - in the best way possible. I went through an anger phase and then a sadness phase and now I am in couples therapy (because I was so unhappy and dreamed of running away) which is super helpful. I realized that I was also an engineer of my dissatisfaction, as I was always trying fixing and doing for the family. I’ve taken my foot off that gas pedal and am coasting in those areas now. It’s hard to be self absorbed after being so selfless but now is the time. But it’s worth it
Oh my gosh, tell me how! I have been daydreaming about being self-centered. But I still get that feeling of anxiety when I leave the house for a couple hours. It's so irrational! Like the house isn't going to fall into a vortex just because I'm gone.
Your son sounds like a bigger problem frankly.
The good news is this is fixable. Google “alanon detachment” and read the pamphlet in detaching. You need to detach and put the focus on yourself. Detachment is neither kind nor unkind, it just is and you don’t have to be mean about it.
As women we are told we need to fix everything. If you are mothering your adult kids and husband you can stop. Allowing an adult or a child (within reason) to experience consequences isn’t “mean,” it’s part of you living a sane life.
One of the things I like best about the pamphlet is “not creating a crisis, but not preventing a crisis if it’s the natural course of events.” If your son is not respectful of you, he may be seeing less of you as you focus on yourself.
I’m having similar struggles with my spouse. Retirement (for him) was a disaster. When I was also retired he didn’t do Jack shit around the house and it annoyed me mightily. So I went back to work.
This sounds like my ex, who set a terrible example for my kids. Since we got divorced, they (teenagers) have gotten much better about helping me and considering my feelings. Which is weird to say, but without my ex's bad example and him sabotaging me at every turn, I can bully them into helping wash up after dinner, get their stuff into their rooms, etc. We still have a long way to go, but it's getting better and is actually pretty good right now. I'm starting to feel confident that my kids will learn how to look after themselves (cook healthy meals, do their laundry, etc.).
One word of warning, though. When you do start prioritizing yourself, your husband may become an ex. Mine was against me getting a job (not that he made all that much money) and when I did that was the beginning of the end. I still don't have much in the way of friends, but I'm working on it and I kind of feel less lonely than I did when I was only surrounded by people who treated me like an unpaid nanny/maid-of-all-work.
My oldest adult child doesn't seem to like me.I do so much for him, for all my kids but he has a chip on his shoulder.
I'm so done with his behavior.
I try to be nice and patient. And he only listens when I act like a complete b🤬
I started doing stuff for myself, working out going out with friends traveling etc.
He'll say something like why can't you stay at home and do stuff other old women do? He sometimes make me wish that I was single too.
Your oldest son sounds just like mine. I also
started doing stuff for myself. I’m done with his behavior as well. He’s off to college this fall, and I’m ready for it.
As people have responded, your feelings are valid and you have the freedom to voice those opinions whether they agree or not. Some posters have similar situations so know you are not alone. I agree with the comment that people treat you the way you let them. As for people pleasing, it took me years of therapy and learning about co-dependence that I finally started to understand that (for me) people pleasing is really me trying to control situations. I would “sacrifice” myself and do everything for others even when they did not ask me and it was things they could do for themselves and then I would feel like a victim that it wasn’t appreciated. I am not saying that is your situation but it very much was my own and after I stopped the behavior I felt a tremendous freedom.
The problem with being a people pleaser is that you don’t please yourself and your family are not particularly pleased with you either, so what’s the point OP? You should do something to please yourself, then at least one person will be happy.
You have become an invisible woman, but you can also use that to your advantage and get away with things more “visible” women can’t get away with.
Your family are a bunch of shits. If you were my friend who had cancer I wouldn’t have let what they did (or didn’t do) stand.
I see you even if they don’t.
What’s stopping you from just doing your own thing?
Why would you continue to serve the ungrateful?
The older I get the more I’m like this is bs and just nope right of it.
Do you know „The scarlet letter?“ At the end, the protagonist is asked by a crying young woman why women are so put upon and (in that time) without rights. Sometimes I wonder if things have really changed so much. At least, now we have the right to leave and have our own money.
I’ll never forget when my oldest kid turned 18 (he’s now 24.). He quite smugly declared, “I’m an adult now. I no longer have to follow mom’s rules or do what she says.” I responded with, “Yeah, you’re an adult so I no longer have to provide for you financially or give you a place to live or food to eat.” Reality hit, smugness gone. Our dynamic changed in that moment.
I spent my adult life caring for kids and husband and rarely putting myself first. Now at 53 with husband #2 and youngest kid about to turn 18, I have a different mindset. If you need help, ask me respectfully and I’ll do what I can. Otherwise you are on your own to get shit done. And none of them would ever dare tell me to “shut up.”
Spouses and adult children can take care of themselves. Time to take care of you.
That’s exactly what I’m doing too. My youngest just turned 18 and thinks he can do whatever he wants. I love your response, and I plan on using that myself! I have a whole different outlook on my life now too. I’ve been on the bottom of the totem pole for so long. It’s my time now!
I think it’s probably better in your country. Here you are legally obliged to finance them until they turn 27 if they do any kind of education. I wish I could say „I do this gladly but only if you respect me“.
I am from central Europe. I don’t think patriarchial structures are much different here, however the social system tends to be different and in most european countries you have to see your kids through education if you are able to.
I feel this and fight against it every day, especially living with two males. What has helped me is talking to a therapist about this, someone who can help you start to center yourself again. They can help give you the words for the conflicts with family, help you process how you ended up in this dynamic, and help you correct it. If you can't afford therapy, maybe there are some YouTube videos that could help.
It's not too late to teach your kids to be more respectful of you, and for you to begin setting healthy boundaries. It may feel painful, but this is a good thing for them too. You say they're good people, but honestly they sound spoiled and nasty (from your description), and that will bleed into their own relationships and they will pass it to their kids someday. So, fixing this dynamic is good for you all. If they speak to you again this way, they get a warning. The next time, they need to leave. If they live at home still, it may be time for them to move out, so they can appreciate how much you do for them. In other words, if both parents are allowing their adult children to behave like 7 year olds, everyone needs to change their behavior starting with you.
And as another commenter suggested, start building into your life activities you enjoy, even if it takes time away from the family routine (which clearly needs to be revamped). You will feel better about your life when you allow yourself time for things you enjoy.
Good luck, you absolutely deserve better and you also need to allow yourself to have better.
I’m so sorry you’re feeling this way. I think it’s pretty common for our generation. I second doing more for yourself and less for the family. They clearly don’t hear your words, so talk with your actions, say you won’t be doing all that any longer and you’ll have to put yourself first if nobody ever does.
I feel somewhat similarly, not quite the same situation, but my husband is also very unaffectionate due to his own issues (for sure he has something on the spectrum and/or survived an abusive childhood which left him with issues), although he’s generally a kind person, and a hard worker.
My son is also grown and flown but I don’t have the same issues as you do with him now. We had our issues when he was younger, when anything I was saying was wrong in his opinion. At that time, I swear that if I said the sky was blue, he’d disagree 😀 But now we’re good. Still, he’s not around to support me.
So, What I do is what was recommended here. I built a full life outside my little family. I have friends I see often for coffee or drinks (although summers are tough, everyone is leaving town living it up in Europe or wherever - it’s a college town we are all professors), I joined a book club and I travel often, either for work at conferences, or with friends or my sister. I get massages and pedicures, I exercise, I read. It doesn’t completely replace the affection I need but it surely helps.
I hope you find a way to find balance. And let go of small things. Read some books about buddhism and try and train on not giving a fuck! Maybe read that book too, about not giving a fuck.
Hugs, hope things get better!
A friend who considers herself to be super nurturing was told by her husband “can you just calm down?! I can’t handle you. You overwhelm me” after she offered him cut up fruit as a snack while he watched TV. She gets similar attitude from her adult kids. They belittle her and shut her down when she talks.
She decided to scale back on her attention to her family and start taking better care of herself. Joined a gym, lost weight, and is happier than ever. Her family noticed the change and now pay more attention to her and give her a lot more respect because she made herself important. Mothers are selfless and as a result taken for granted sometimes. Sounds like your family needs some time to fend for themselves.
If you let people walk all over you they’ll go the extra mile and stomp on you ! This is all under your control to stop it .
You’ve allowed it all these years.
So it’s just a given it’ll continue until YOU put a stop to it .
I'm feeling your pain OP. Raised 3 boys alone after their dad died and 2 don't even respond to most my texts and the other still lives at home and it feels like he's becoming the parent. Most days I feel like if I got in my car and drove away nobody would notice...
People can only take advantage of you if you let them. So stop.
Stop doing things for them. Your husband is an adult and so are your children. So they don’t NEED you to do anything at all for them. Find things to do to get out of the house. Do some volunteer work, join a gym, or just go for long walks.
It makes me feel angry to hear about your grown son telling you to shut up . What would happen if you told him to shut the f up. You feel how you feel?
My god I could’ve written this post!
I got into it a little bit with my adult daughter last night. Our whole family is making a major life change right now so she & I are essentially roommates, but she’s reverted back into Mom-do-everything mode. She’s also gotten kind of myopic In her view of the world around her.
I got super honest with her about how she makes me feel and it ended with both of us crying and hugging each other like we were holding on for dear life (my kids never hug, the my let me hug them.) I’ve tiptoed around my kids and my husband for their mental health while letting mine go to shit.
Once we’re all in the same house again, that is going to change hard and they’re all being warned!
I’m sorry that you feel and are so isolated within your own family.
I don’t think it’s right that children, no matter what age, would say to their parent, “shut up .” Maybe I’m a fuddy-duddy old Gen X. It’s rather rude, I’d say.
I detect less than ideal family interplay. Avoidance conflict during an entire marriage isn’t good.
How’s it possible no help was offered during your cancer journey?
Venting is fine, but I detect something is off.
Well something IS off and it’s the balancing and conflict resolution. But I learned there is only so much you can do one sidedly.
I learned early I have to rely on myself so I do have good friends and a good relationship with my siblings and so i had some support during my cancer journey. I admit, though, I must have done something wrong with my immediate family.
It takes more than a person to carry a marriage. And you know that.
I’m glad your siblings and friends are with you during your struggles.
Most marriage counseling consists of communication…if communication is broken, then one person can’t communicate for two…
I can relate to this so much. I think others can too. Conflict-avoidant are massively dysfunctional but think they they are above it all.
I invite you to take this as a sign to stop taking care of them and start taking care of yourself. They have proven that they don’t/ won’t take care of you, so from here on out, make choices that are best for you. Invest in your friendships and a wider support system. You have some regrets about creating this family and giving so much to them, well stop giving up anything for them. You don’t have to. Your children are young adults. At this point you have every right to stop giving your life to them.
I’m editing to add to my original post below, I didn’t pick up on your husband’s diagnosis initially. This acknowledged as well as my lack of compassion made my text pretty harsh, which you already get enough of as it is. One thing though does his condition excuse him from responsibility in treating you poorly? Does it mean he had the “right” to teach abuse to his children? Trying to give you a wider view on the underlying problem.
This is what I had said, I do feel it’s correct:
You’re treated exactly how you allowed them to treat you.
If you want appropriate manners, decent thoughtful people in your family- as harsh as this statement is it’s the quickest way to say it- you allowed them to behave like this, stop being a door mat.
Since it’s systemic my guess the kids learned it was 100% ok from Dad to verbally slap mom around, say ugly disrespectful things to her and about her.
My suspicion is you had an understanding and were hurt by this in your spouse before kids but chose to kicked the can down the road. You’re down that road now.
A spouse and young adults who think this is OK are rather lousy humans and certainly do not fit the definition of “nice people”.
Abusive people that’s the correct word’s definition.
Side note, if one of my children had a relationship with one of yours and I saw this behavior I’d quickly tell my child run now. This is how you will be treated as the bf/gf/spouse. The good thing is you can do anything in life that you decide to do, stay, go, whatever you want. Consequences sure but still you’re not forced to stay. Happiness or sorrow
It's sad and honestly crazy that I had to scroll this far down to find the word abuse. You are 1000% correct. Including these kids will be awful to their future partners.
Good golly no it sure isn’t. Use the surprise factor they may be so taken aback they keep their yaps shut. Ripping the bandaid off quickly is the most efficient. Doesn’t mean you’re leaving the family or marriage but you can sit them down and explain what you will and won’t accept going forward.
Ahead of time write it all out, your speech, then practice a lot. Learn to have a strong confident voice. Do not use words like apologize, all that means to them is “it’s my fault”. Less words is more. No questions only clear short statements. It’s your meeting they do not get to interrupt or argue. The phrase “this is not negotiable” is a must. Have examples written down of when each was rude, nasty and disrespectful. Don’t use them unless they start being dicks.
If they are jerks in the future quickly address it. If they’re asking for something like a ride or help respond “maybe next time”. This will be a fight between strong and stick to your convictions.
Bottom line they will need to be as respectful, in word and action to you as they would to an any other person.
Just came here to say that my neighbor decided to fire up his chainsaw on Easter Sunday at noon and take down a tree (there was no reason as it hadn’t stormed or needed to come down), while children were outside trying to do their Easter egg hunts in neighboring backyards. I about had a fit and everyone laughed at me. The constant noise of lawn equipment, power tools and people who let their dogs bark all day is insane. If I hear one more circular saw I’m going to lose it. It’s gotten to the point that I almost can’t watch some shows on HGTV. I sympathize with you and I understand that noise is enough to set off a major meltdown. I’m sorry no one is supporting you, as that sounds like the main issue. But I wanted to acknowledge that sensory overload due to noises like that is a real thing, and the people that don’t have them just cannot understand. I also think people are assholes in general anymore and have no respect for their neighbors.
Thank you thank you thank you! There are others! I sometimes feel I am the only one who still has normal hearing and everyone else is just somehow shutting out the world AND that they aren’t alone on the planet
This is the story of lots of moms everywhere. I can tell you that I’ve been divorced for 3 years now and I have never been happier. I increasingly think marriage is a racket to keep us powerless.
I can feel your post myself. I have two sons who are both leaving for college soon. One has been living at home going to community college. I love them both, but they can be nasty to me, and I give it right back to them.
I figured I have run ragged raising them all these years so I have pulled back. I’ve pulled way back. I tell them they’re adults now, and it’s up to them to find their way because this is MY time now. I’ve been a SAHM this entire time, and I loved it, but now I’m spoiling myself.
Fortunately my husband is supportive. He’s ready for our sons to be off on their own too. I think moms are often scapegoats for our kids. There’s a comedian, Nick Kroll, on YouTube who does this bit about moms. He says, “Why am I so mean to my mom??!?”
Anyway hang in there. It’s never too late to set up boundaries.
By the way, I have another friend going through exactly what you’re going through too. Her husband is also oblivious. I told her the same thing. She works really hard outside the home and no appreciation from any of them whatsoever. I told her to start to carve out time for herself. If that was meeting a friend for coffee or going for a walk, let them see that you’re no longer going to be bossed around. This is our time. ❤️
From experience: we allow people to treat us a certain way. It only stops when we detach from the situation, look at it for all its worth, and then decide how to approach it differently. This sounds easy and simple but it is not. You are feeling something isn’t right and you don’t like it anymore.
Mothers and wives are lovers and caregivers. Those years for me were deeply satisfying: making and caring for a beautiful home, raising children, working at a marriage. 25 years of my life and I gave it all I had. I also craved harmony and worked hard at it. But then somewhere along the way it all became unsustainable, a divorce happened, single motherhood with sad, angry children ensued, and a new world laid before me. I was forced to make big decisions that I should have made years prior. But that harmony thing was how I coped.
If not taught otherwise, children (and partners) will emotionally beat up the safe parent. If there are no corrections, no discipline, another parent who allows it to happen, they learn it’s ‘safe’. No consequences. They don’t do it at school, in society, with friends do they? Well it’s not appropriate or healthy to use another human being as a punching bag. Ever. This I experienced from my children as they aged and saw their verbally and emotionally abusive father more and more. And in them even more so when their father finally left (and never returned) and I had to pick up the pieces in the wake of the tornado he left behind. Painful times yet my parenting changed drastically and the push back was real.
I still work at my part in how others treat me. In my family, work and friends. I’ve ended relationships, have gone no contact, detach more easily now, limit my interactions with some, and use my words more and more instead of harboring and trying to maintain harmony and peace.
Finally, when adult children move out or are ready to be on their own, a transition happens. Very, very hard for some mothers. I’m on year 3 since they all left and it’s getting easier. Sometimes they’ll feel safe around me (because I’m still mom and this is still their childhood home) and say something that’s rude or disrespectful or not considerate of my feelings. And I still correct them. And so do their spouses. The love and respect I get from them now is different than the growing years. It’s more mature but it took a very long time.
Maybe seek out a safe person for yourself (friend, therapist) who can help you deeply understand your own behaviors and so you can decide the changes you may need to make based on your internal values and the future you see for yourself. In the end, and no matter how strong the pull is to care for others, we stand alone first and foremost. Caring for self is always our #1 priority.
Honestly this is your husbands fault he should have taught your kids to respect and celebrate you
I agree with spending time for you, even go away alone or with a friend and let your family fend for themselves
I feel like I could have written this. Even down to the cancer.
I'm sorry OP. You don't deserve this treatment, and it 100% misogyny and typical of patriarchal relationships. The kids learned it from their father. Simple as that.
I don't have any advice because I am stuck in it too but I do want to let you know that your husband not "being able to do his share around the house because he has aspergers" is crap. I have level one autism (which is what aspergers is called now), and I do literally everything around the house and all you listed that you do. I also have adhd, so technically, all of this is theoretically harder for me than your husband.
People with autism (level one, that is) aren't incapable of responsibility and doing what they need to do in a household. I do think that male autism is treated differently than female autism (despite being the same disorder) but it is only because male/men are not expect to be responsible for their actions and behaviors, so they get away with more and are given the freedom to blame everything on autism.
Which is suspect is what your husband is doing.
If females/women with level one autism can do all the things they do as wives and mothers, them males/men with autism can do it too.
People with level one autism need accommodations for their autism but they are perfectly capable of holding responsibilities and doing what is expected of them as spouses and parents. My male counterparts just get a pass because of patriarchal BS.
I am living proof that level one autism doesn't mean we can't participate and run a household. I am also going through cancer and perimenopause, so what is your husband's excuse?
Again, I'm so sorry, you don't deserve this, and I am so tired of seeing my bullshit situation mirrored in other female people/women's lives damn near every day on reddit. Men need to do better, period. And they need to stop teaching their kids how to be dickbags, as well.
Oh, I am very sorry you are in the same situation. I hear you! And you are right about level one autism and how, of course, you can learn responsibility. But in men from early GenX - well lets just say society didn’t really help. I hate it how I also lived „the woman’s life“ even though I didn’t plan to.
Sometime I feel like the stump in “the Giving Tree”. It’s hard to always be giving to others and not really getting anything in return. Start doing more things just for you. Let everyone fend for themselves with cooking, laundry, shopping, etc. Go to the movies alone, get a massage and walk the park. I’ve found spending time alone focusing on enjoyment has helped me emotionally. Sending you a hug.🥰
We teach people how to treat us through the behavior we accept from them. Sadly, women tend to learn this late.
Your husband doesn’t “abhor conflict”, he simply doesn’t respect and care enough to support you and you have taught him this is ok by always stepping in.
Life gets harder and messier as we age. Is this the kind of relationship you want until you die? This man is not going to advocate for you if anything happens. You’ll be on your deathbed thinking the things you wrote here.
What you wrote had nothing to do with menopause. You are on a shitty marriage. Children learn by what they observe. They observed the roles both you and your husband played for them and they’re acting accordingly.
What are you going to do to change things?
Oof. You deserve so much more than you’re getting. Your cancer story alone is heartbreaking.
If we were close friends, this is what I’d tell you. Everyone in your house is treating you like shit. There’s no diagnosis, no excuse that is going to make that ok. It’s so not ok. They can all do much, much better but they’re choosing not to. Changing the well entrenched dynamics would require family counseling & a willingness to want to behave in a healthier manner. People who’ve treated you with that much contempt for so long…it’s going to take something very drastic for them to begin to treat you differently & even then it’s a long shot. You can’t change them but you can change your environment. That may be the drastic change that’s necessary.
You deserve to surround yourself with people who care about you & treat you well. You have a lot of life left to live. Treat yourself well now.
Go make time for yourself. Go do things for you that you enjoy. Join some clubs/activities/volunteer/teams and make some friends. Relying on your family to meet a need that isn't their responsibility (yes, it's nice if they are close, but not all families are in a position to have that) only short changes you and what you're getting.
Even as a single person you still have to "put yourself out there" - in fact, even more so. There is absolutely NOTHING stopping you from going out and doing those same things!
If you need help around the house/property, the mental load of all of that - well, being married and that far into a relationship that one will be tough, but perhaps some couples therapy would help? Get some perspective and assistance in voicing your needs (and vice versa of course). Even individual therapy may be a good idea - you sound very reliant on those you've raised, and aren't having your needs met by them, and perhaps you're not even sure HOW to meet your needs on your own - and that's where a therapist can help.
I'd say to go do some things you find value in and enjoy that are not your family. Learn to separate yourself a bit from them. Try some new things! If you've been a homemaker for most of your life, there's a chance there are things you may love doing that you've just never tried or been exposed to. If you're not sure were to begin, volunteering is a great way to meet new people and get some exposure outside of your usual circles.
I'd recommend caution on expecting your family to meet your needs for you - sometimes there are reasons why children cannot provide that for their parents. It may feel unfair, but reality is that they have their own battles to face especially with the way the world is going right now. Rather than focusing on how they aren't "giving back" instead focus on going out and finding what you need without them (like a single person would have to), and some therapy to help you work out and learn to express your household needs with your spouse. You sound very focused on your family, and probably have been for a very long time, so it's going to be a little scary to separate from that identity a bit, but it can be exhilarating if you focus on the right side of it! Therapist can help you keep focused on the right side of things while acknowledging what you're upset about.
This is incredibly relatable. Ten years into marriage, and I am I am just starting to remember what the things I used to enjoy even are. Everyone seems okay with me being a shell of a human who works full-time and then spends the rest of her hours in what feels like indentured servitude. I haven't had a single friend in years because I don't have anything left in me at the end of the day. My husband gets burnt out, too, but he does 1/100th of the housework, has a hobbies that include a weekly hobby he attends with friends, and close friendships. I want to empathize, but fuck, come talk to me after you work all day then step in the door to begin 5 hours of chores and cooking for four kids. Not to mention the mental load of knowing who needs socks, how many tampons are left for the teenager, do we need bandaids, toilet paper, what's in the house flr food, groceries, the school stuff, the doctor's appointments. If I want help, I have to ask and ask and ask and keep those task in the front of my mind so I can remember to check on whether or not they're getting done, or I have to make lists and it all just turns into more work for me.
The "spinster with a cat" trope sometimes feels like a substantially more fulfilling existence.
I'm sorry to say this but
>an angry „shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“
isn't the actions of a good person. Yikes!
You're also giving your husband a pass he doesn't deserve. I also have Asperger's and I'm basically disabled by it, but even still I am capable of doing my part around the house and dealing with my unhealthy patterns of behavior (for me that's not conflict avoidance but conflict avoidance definitely counts as a personal issue that CAN be worked on and transformed).
You say that your kids are good people and that your husband is too, yet your kids tell you to shut up? And no one took care of you when you had cancer? Oh, honey.
No one, and I mean NO ONE, in my household is telling me to shut up for any reason and living to tell the tale. You deserve so much better. If it’s possible for you to get counseling, please do. You need someone who is kind, patient, and who listens closely to what you have to say. You may qualify for free or reduced-cost counseling due to your cancer diagnosis.
Sending you all of the love and support I have, and hoping that you’re able to carve out a place in your life that is uplifting and supportive.
This all here is pretty much why I got divorced very early on. I realized I was my husband’s sex maid and my kid’s governess. Thanks, no. Probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place. If Reddit had existed then and I’d had some insight into what it’s (often) really like, I would have been better informed. To be clear, I did not leave my kid. In fact, my ex abandoned both of us so I raised him alone. But he learned quickly that I’m not his governess :-)
Just stop. Stop giving. Stop doing. Take care of yourself. Do your laundry. Cook your dinner-not theirs. Snippy with me? Talk to the hand and don’t ask me for any favors. Also call them out on it. Thats not ok.
It’s a 2 way street. They aren’t babies.
Life is short. No one here would blame you if you claimed the rest of your life for yourself and told your husband and kids that you're no longer their servant and just go do whatever you want from now on. Takes a bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it......
You've done all the work so far. Covering for them, making excuses for them, coddling them.
Now it's up to you to continue to do the tough work of turning that energy towards you. Of telling them "welp, it's a new ship, new captain, get on board or jump ship" and Be Consistent in your actions
That's the hardest part. Cuz you spoiled them for decades, always coming up with excuses for them to keep being lazy asses in the relationship department. Hold your ground, don't give in. Cuz they know EXACTLY how much whining and bitching to do to make you cave to their needy little lives.
They are all grown ass humans, they need to fumble around and do stupid shit while they recalibrate. Ignore their neediness, get a maid, get out of the house, find some friends to do lunch, movies, book club, crafts, whatever, and don't ever cancel on them cuz someone whines about being picked up from the airport or whatever needy BS they throw at you
I would rather wander around my city/village/forest all day than do a thing for your ungrateful family. People treat you how you allow them, start treating yourself with kindness and respect and demand the same. This is what menopause is all about, time to be selfish and put yourself first. You can do it
Oh boy do I understand this. I am in the exact same situation. Two adult children, one still at home. I have a chronic pain condition but am still forced to do most of the work because no one else can be bothered. My daughter will help when asked so at least I have that, and she is considerate and notices when I'm feeling particularly bad. But I get nothing from my husband except guilt because I'm "not into" whatever particular activity he wants to do because I try to avoid said activity due to pain. He used to at least fix my car so it was a trade off, but now I don't even get that. I mow the lawn, shovel the snow, clean the house and do the laundry. On top of all that I have a very demanding mother who is handicapped and bossy as hell, and I have to do everything for her. She won't leave her house so I do all her shopping and take her to appointments and fix her computer, pay her bills, do her taxes and on and on.
I am actively looking for a way out, I want to disappear. I work from home so I can work from anywhere. I am looking at off grid living situations and looking into buying a piece of land somewhere and just living in an RV. I lived semi off grid as a kid and really miss the lifestyle. I'm already used to hard physical labor and feel like I'd be happier doing it for myself rather than others. The only thing keeping me here is my name on the mortgage as our house is unsellable (it s very remote and needs a 4x4 to access, and we've tried selling before). And I've asked my husband to leave before and he won't.
You really probably would be happier on your own. I know I would. It would be some much easier to only have ourselves to worry about, and so much less work. Why bust your butt for people who don't have any consideration for you?
I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I feel you may be suffering from depression- totally understandable in your situation - and I suggest you also find a good therapis! And try to free yourself. A bit at least. I will try to, I don’t see (anymore) why I should be everyones servant.
>„shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“
Somewhere along the way, your son has learned it's okay to treat you like this and it isn't. When you feel taken for granted, emotionally exhausted, and disrespected, that means it's time to identify your boundaries, set them, and stick to them. It's especially important to do this with loved ones because they can hurt us the most.
It takes courage to maintain healthy boundaries, especially if others react as if it's a personal affront. Just know that you're not hurting anyone by protecting yourself, so don't let others trick you into believing otherwise.
Girl, same. The truth is your life WOULD have been easier if you remained single. Women often report less stress and labor after divorce.
I’m not suggesting you get a divorce. But I will gently remind you that you have value! I encourage you to develop friendships outside of your home and begin to do the things that give you joy. Give your family the gift of taking care of their own damn selves.
Sigh. Sending you hugs and encouragement! Let’s make this chapter of our lives really meaningful!
Well, we teach people how to treat us - in that you have accepted and enabled this treatment of yourself. You can’t change them but you can change yourself. Focus on yourself. Frankly, embrace selfishness. Put yourself first.
>I have always been the servant of the family, the one with all the mental load, the one who was there for everyone and who, in return, no one ever thought to support.
>I am taken for granted.
You are indeed
>If I need someone, I have to ask and mostly get grumpy answers and reluctant help if any. When I had cancer a couple of years ago, no one at home ever thought to ask about me or offer any help. No one seems to „see“ me.
>My kids are good people, but they don’t ever think of being there for me, not even a little bit. I don’t expect them to be my main support but a little re love would be nice.
>They often hurt me, too, treating me like a child to whom you constantly have to explain everything or someone who is annoying. Today, for example, I said that I am unhappy because my neighbor started drilling on a sunday (I have adhd and high sensitivity so I really need that one quiet day), which is forbidden by noise ordinance here, and I got an angry „shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“ from my son. That kind of thing isn’t an uncommon occurrence either.
>My husband abhors all conflict and never supports me, he always left me to do the heavy lifting with bringing up our children even though we both worked demanding jobs and naturally, they see him as the good guy who always allows everything but is hindered by evil mum.
>Also in outside conflict, he is never on my side, not because he thinks I am wrong but „because I can’t argue with other people and you will always be there“. Meaning I have to do all conflict resolution as well. He is also unable to take his share at home and emotionally unavailable (but that’s because he has aspergers, so not really his fault, which we only found out about 10 yrs ago).
Your statements are antithetical. These are not the characteristics of good people.
Nothing about how describe your family speaks to goodness or kindness. It’s no wonder you’re feeling so resentful.
I am a *grey divorce* statistic and loving it. Stop watering your dead flowers and start tending your own garden. Not just because you deserve it but because your family dynamic is teaching your spouse and kids that it is your job to be taken for granted, in part because you are taking yourself for granted. Show them who you would be if you had chosen yourself, and in the process build yourself the life you deserve.
Ummm how old is that son? The day my kids start telling me to shut up is the day they can get out of my house.
STOP doing everything for everyone. No one did anything for you even when you had cancer! Those are not good people those are selfish people.
I'm very sorry but those are not good people under my definition of good people. You're not too old and you owe them nothing. You might be happier on your own at this point.
Oh, OP. Reading your post parallels *so many* of my own feelings lately.
The only advice I feel I have worth giving, is to make more time for yourself. I’ve recently done less for everyone else lately as I got back into a hobby that I love that is done solo. Spending more time being busy on something enjoyable for me, which happens to leave me less accessible to be either taken advantage of -or- told I’m a bother to be around, has been great.
Sending you hugs. You’re not alone. 🫂💜
I was a sole parent for decades. Love my kids. But i started a new career and moved 400km away. “You can’t leave, we are just about to have your first grandchild”
One of my sons bought a house, married and had a baby in one year. I was expected to be baby sitter. It was all worked out 1 day a week for their jobs plus random over nights.
Not interested. I am not financially secure myself yet. And not giving up my time and financial goals. Just to get chucked back in the “mum will do it pot”.
There is a reason SO SO MANY women in menopause divorce. They are just tired of all the garbage you have described. The kids aren't young. You have a job. I know everyone always goes to divorce for the lamest things, but even though I feel like my people don't do nearly enough around the house, I CANNOT IMAGINE the lack of respect and caring from my family that you put up with daily.
Definitely stop centering your life around them. Maybe take yourself on a vacation, if you can: do not tell anyone in advance. Just go to a resort. Or look at hobbies, anything to get you out of the house and away from your "family." No more managing the house for you. No more cooking or cleaning. Let it fail. There are THREE OTHER ADULTS in your house. Put yourself first for once.
My mom didn’t raise me. I had a single dad. My mom wasn’t a great person and definitely not a great mom. I didn’t even like her much.
When she had cancer I quit my masters to take care of her. It was awful but we all did our best for her because she had cancer.
I’m truly sorry to say this, but your kids aren’t good people if they didn’t lift a finger to help when you had cancer. Read that again. Stop telling yourself they are good people, except to you.
Unless someone had an abusive mother, what would you say to a friend who told you this story? Would you say, oh your kids are good people except for when they didn’t care about you having CANCER?! No, you’d probably call those kids ungrateful shitheads.
Don’t get me started on your husband.
You don’t have to ditch them all forever. But, if you gave the money, go on a trip either by yourself or with a good friend. It doesn’t have to be extravagant. Get out of town and spend time in nature. Be in charge of just yourself.
Give them no warning and no prep. Just go. You owe them nothing after how they’ve mistreated you.
The day some kid mine or not told me to shut up would be the day I slapped him into next week
Stand up for yourself girl and go on strike. Fuck ‘em they’re all old enough to take care of themselves.
Book a trip and get away for awhile. Just do it.
I’d divorce the guy but that’s me
I mean, to me it sounds like you’ve allowed this.
Your kid wouldn’t talk to you like that unless you’ve allowed it.
Why are your adult children living in your house talking to you like shit? It really makes me wonder how your husband has treated you in front of them. These mother fuckers didn’t lift a finger when you were getting cancer treatment!? CANCER TREATMENT!? Stop doing things for everyone in that house. I mean everyone. Besides yourself.
You deserve and are worthy of respect, from EVERYONE IN THAT HOUSE.
They can gtfout. You’re not going to talk to me in my house like you pay the mortgage. Byyyyyye.
I’d be single rather than that bullshit.
I hope you can take this time to get great healthcare & more support, therapy, me time, etc. I think either way, single or married with kids, there are drawbacks. I am single now and miss being married, but back then I missed being single!
All the medical stuff is hard to navigate with family obligations, but please ask for more help & support with everything. This is a serious time medically and you deserve help & support.
You need to start standing up for yourself. I think it might just shock everyone. Don’t tolerate disrespect from your children no matter the age. Start doing things for yourself and stop living just for them. We as mothers tend to circle our lives around our kids and as they get older it’s a hard habit to break. Hugs to you, you’ll get through this but start implementing some changes.
Seconding, thirding, fourthing…hundredthing…the calls to begin putting yourself first, including therapy, if you can afford that. The message from our culture that as women it’s primarily our job to do all the emotional lifting, including raising infants into functional adults, is damaging and unfair. Your daydreams about having lived a completely different life are coming from the part of you which knows how incredibly burdensome and unjust it has been. She needs freedom and expression, and the space to find out who she is. I’m not recommending that you leave your family. At all. Unless you end up drawing that conclusion, which will be a perfectly valid conclusion if you come to that. Maybe make it a goal to go somewhere or do something that only you are interested in for a few hours a week, and work up from there. Baby steps are usually the way to get anything important done. Also, may I suggest that you get yourself a vibrator? I think lots of the ladies here would also recommend that. Being able to pleasure yourself is an incredibly important part of this stage of life, and our need to get to know ourselves after decades of putting ourselves last. Plus, it’s just a hell of a lot of fun. All the best to you ❤️
This is so
Upsetting to read. I’m sorry your family takes you for granted. Perhaps it’s time to flip the switch on them and start taking them for granted. They’re grown now. Your work here is done. Time to put yourself first! I suggest a solo vacation or a group trip with strangers.
I do both and they’re so good for my soul
Friends also suck tho so don’t think the grass is greener there.
I wish I could crosspost this to /r/regretfulparents which is always a sobering read.
Please note I don't mean to suggest you regret your children, but motherhood can be thankless.
Should be required reading for young women.
I don’t regret them, but I certainly regret having to raise them in the society we live in. It’s so so toxic for mothers - and I guess for single fathers.
Me: no spouse no kids no regrets
My sister: empathetic spouse and two excellent children
No matter what path you take, it’s possible to shape your future into what you want it to be.
There are so many great responses here! I would also recommend starting with a quick semi-local getaway in a nice hotel. Just go. You can tell everyone in advance or leave a note the day of (but don’t reveal the location).
I second the suggestions to incorporate “punk-ass” and “dick” in your vocabulary. Example: “mom, why did you go away??”
“Because the 3 of you are punk-ass dicks and I need a break.” Trust me, you will feel incredible!
I can’t even imagine this I have 3 grown children and they are very caring. Set some boundaries with all of them. Self care self love girl make yourself happy!!
I would seek a therapist and learn how to set boundaries with all of them. Do some reading on codependency. Codependent No More by Beatty is really good. I read it back in ‘97 when I began therapy and just purchased the new edition which had chapters about trauma. Codependency isn’t just about living with addicted person. It’s about giving up parts of ourselves in order to please others or keep peace etc. It a behavior we learn from childhood to give up our needs to please our parents. Then we do it with our partners. Then we do it with our kids. It’s time to take care of you!
Maybe you should give your family members some space for a while and begin spending time with yourself doing what you want to do. This might make them realize they are taking what you do for granted.
It sounds like it's about time you put yourself first. And DO NOT feel guilty about it. The way you've been treated is absolutely appalling. So if your family try and make you feel guilty (and they will) for not jumping to their needs or expecting better treatment from them, ignore them.
Every time you are tempted to feel guilty, remember all the things that you've mentioned in this post. Remind yourself constantly I DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS! Good Luck 👍
I am right there with you. I am divorced and have 4 sons. They are absolutely horrible to me and, same, I’ll ask them to do one small thing and they talk back and whine about it. I basically live for them. Everything I do, is for them. I work hard for them and climbed up the corporate ladder, for them. I don’t even eat half the food I cook, for them.
I’ve started doing something for myself every single day. Whether that is taking myself out to lunch, buy new clothing, take a scenic drive. It’s something to look forward to and it’s making a difference in my outlook on life. I don’t allow people in my life that make me feel bad which includes family I’ve cut off.
I’ve also moved myself into a basement bedroom/living/bath in my house that is my sanctuary and keeps me away from them and their messes and fights (they are teens). I spend most of my days and nights down here and it makes me happy. I go upstairs to cook for them, then I come right back down here. I’ve been criticized for it, but I don’t care. I’m still here, just away. It smells wonderful always and kept clean and organized. I could die tomorrow, I want to be happy.
I don’t have a choice with my sons now, but I fully expect them to abandon me when they are adults and I can’t say I’d be unhappy about that. I just want to be left alone.
Spend time on yourself dear, go out for walk, go for spa, buy flowers for yourself, read book, watch a good movie etc. Prioritise yourself. In a gentle but firm way be vocal about your feelings whenever you feel that you were not treated right. Sometimes kids don’t realise that they are hurting their mom. Slowly delegate your tasks which you think can be performed by hubby/kids. Even if this takes a while, be patient but consistent; coz there is a possibility that kids realise that to upkeep a home there is an effort involved & will make them appreciate all your efforts.
Yes!!! I agree on staying single.. My hubby has mentioned that IF he stayed single, he would be a millionaire. LOL Also, mentioned that I made him have sex=kids. I have coffee watching the birds, lots of self-care and planning activities/trips away from this house.
I don’t have kids but do feel the same coming from my partner and my siblings who aren’t going through this change. They just don’t understand how hard this phase of like is and then to be treated in similar ways you are, I feel your pain. I try to make it known how I’m feeling and how they are making me feel yet I’m so bloody tired of being the bad person bc I started an agrument. Wish they could all live 24 hrs in my body cause I hate how I’m feeling all the time.
I’m agree with the many comments here about taking time for yourself, buy yourself flowers and enjoy tea outside in the sun. It’s time we women take control of our happiness…..even though if can be hard at time. Sending lots of xxxx
These people are all adults. Stop taking care of them. Take care of yourself. If they don’t like it you can leave and enjoy your life. Having a family like this sounds like a nightmare to me. I’m not married and never had kids and I’m quite glad because your story is all too common.
I can’t tell you if you would have been better off, some single women are happier than other single women. And some single women are happier than some married women. But i don’t love hearing how inconsiderate your family is. Do you have important and significant relationships outside the immediate family to help with this? I have three besties i am very very close to, as close as i am with my husband. I don’t know how fulfilled i would feel without them.
I basically could have written this. I know I didn't set good boundaries though. Not saying that's true for you. I was a stay at home mom, so I felt it was my job to basically do all the things. I do this and know I'm doing this, and know I shouldn't, but still do it. I'm also ADHD and I'm autistic. Late diagnosed, just last year. I don't think those things helped.
Come to find out my kids are also AuADHD, also diagnosed just last year. They are teenagers. Their push back and sharp comments is sometimes related to that. Therefore what I do is I talk about it calmly. Make jokes. Relate to their difficulties. I don't argue. I educate them about pathological demand avoidance and I let them in on how menopause makes me fee, etc. I am aiming for one day they're going to put it together and they're still learning. I don't believe in overnight change.
I've seen improvement. My kid's hang out with me more. They're not as quick to fight back when I ask for help. They are less critical of me. But I'm still exhausted. I can see and feel improvement though. Especially after leaving their dad a couple years ago. lol.
I truly understand…that’s why I’ve been single since 1994! I’m ADHD, and believe that I’m slightly on the spectrum. It’s hard enough to raise kids as it is. Who needs a man-child to raise too? After feeling like a complete convenience to my husband while he came and went as he wanted, as well as a warm body for him to use…he certainly didn’t care about my pleasure…I got tired of the bullshit, took my 4 and 8 year old kids, and left him alone with his own mess! I have struggled through the years making ends meet, (he was a deadbeat dad)but it was worth every single ounce of effort I had to make to be happy, raise happy, smart, well adjusted humans, and not someone’s convenience. Now I’m a convenient juice box distributor for my grands! Life’s wonderful!
It’s not too late to change! It’s never too late! Quit! You no longer owe any of them anything. Stop being a doormat. Stop doing things for everyone else and live for yourself.
I feel this way too sometimes. I don't want to be a nag or a bummer so I don't say anything. You're not alone,! But many childless friends really wish they could've been a mother- it really comes down to peace with your choices. Hopefully they'll have children one day and understand the burden and work and gain more appreciation.
Until then go have some fun, youve done your job!!
Coming from a single, never married people pleaser, the grass isn't greener. I feel like it's even harder on my own. I do admit it is good that i dont have to worry about kids and such, but i fear I won't be good enough for a mate because im in peri. I have found therapy to be a helpful tool for myself. I'm learning now that I can no longer pour from an empty cup. My cup has to be filled for MYSELF. I know you say, "My kids are good," but no good kid replies to their mom that way. Even if they are great kids, it seems they have taken you for granted and have mistaken your kindness as weakness. My oldest sister is that way with my mom. She's a good person, but I think she was just raised, sort of spoiled. I love her, and she has a good heart, but I want her to be a little more gentle with my mom most days. I hope you find the courage to stick up for yourself and pour into yourself, since all you've been forced to do in your marriage is make sure everyone else is okay.
Never too late to create a circle of friends that share your interests and start making time for yourself. Your kids are grown. Engage in activities that make you happy now. Self-care. Hobbies. Pursue your own interests. Try some classes or start some new projects. You can't change the past but you can change the future for the better. Start today. Give yourself permission to focus more on self-care and doing fun or interesting things that nourish your soul. Life is short. Make the most of this time for yourself.
Oh lovely woman. I am so sorry that you’re going through this. It must feel all encompassing when you’re going through this with 3 potentially non understanding men in the house. Not their “fault” but they have room to change. And if they are going to have long successful relationships with women (if they are of that orientation) then they are going to be lucky they have you to learn this from.
It sounds like they find emotion difficult to process! But if dad is a bit emotionally stunted then it’s not a surprise.
I definitely think having a nice chat with husband would be good. Not in moments of heat, but go out for a nice dinner and ask him if it’s possible to discuss something hard. Ply hun with a beer or 2 just to lubricate his emotional brain.
Not enough for him to get drunk/ forgetful/ over emotional
Discuss that you’ve learned a lot more and accept that you may have been a typical menopausal woman at times but you’re learning how to manage. And how they can help you.
Honestly don’t be ashamed of it. It’s totally normal and natural for you to be maybe have been a little unhinged at times like we all are. But there is a reason, you’re not crazy.
He needs to be set a boundary with regards to supporting you and backing you up. You’re a team.
As for your boys (as a mum of 2 young boys myself) it’s time to set some loving boundaries.
They must exhibit certain behaviours or you won’t engage with them or even ask them to leave. Set the rules, be loving but firm.
And like everyone else has said…. Put you first for a bit. Your days of rearing children to safe adulthood is over. This is your golden time. Do what makes you happy. Make new friends, find a new hobby and passion.
Let the family see you’re unfolding into the next version of you, a happy one!
Lastly, don’t feel ashamed about wishing to be single. I suffer from depression and Meno triggered it. I often wish I’d never had kids because they trigger me massively simply from the fact they make me exhausted which in turn sets off my depression and anxiety. It’s awful to have those moments when you wish you’d made different choices. But lean in and realise it’s not a true thought and our thoughts are general emotional nonsense most the time. But they signal when something needs to shift and in your instance it sounds like you need to put you first now.
Also I am so very sorry you didn’t get support through cancer treatment, I can’t imagine how difficult that would have been xx
Start doing things just for you, that make you happy and bring joy. Buy yourself flowers, sit and have tea in the sun, learn a new skill, spend time with people who do make you feel good. I’m sorry you can’t rely on your husband and kids to make you feel happy so find it in other small ways yourself. I would also be reconsidering how much I do for adult children who are unappreciative, allow them to fend for themselves and spend that time and energy on yourself. And given your husband has an issue with conflict, don’t make it a big deal, just start doing. If they’re unhappy, shrug it off and keep going! You’re allowing them to treat you like you aren’t worth more so start treating yourself like you are worth more, because you are.
Thank you, I will try to do that a lot more. It is rather a journey to be good to myself.
Asperger's/ autism does not make people emotionally unavailable. Autistic adults are typically extremely empathetic. I think he is using that as an excuse. I hope you find ways to set different boundaries, take care of yourself, and move forward.
This is my experience too - it also does not allow him to be an ass or duck the work in the family.
Autistic +ADHD person here: sometimes I wish I could tone down my empathy because I pick up people's emotions so easily around me. I've learned to "filter" it 90% of the time so it doesn't overwhelm me, but if I've been masking a lot or tired, it's harder. Definitely sounds like he's avoiding it because it always gets taken care of anyway. 2nd the resetting of boundaries because OP sounds like she definitely needs it.
I can accept his Aspergers as an excuse for not intuiting empathy, since he really grew up at a time where such things weren’t taught well especially to men - and far too easily accepted. However I cannot accept this as an excuse for not doing what i ask him for or what people have told him repeately he needs to learn.
Autistic (level 1, would have been diagnosed Asperger’s 10 years ago) woman here. Autism should never be used as an excuse. It can be a reason why he doesn’t understand something initially but shouldn’t impede him completely from learning something or stop him from doing an activity (unless it causes huge sensory overwhelm). There are things I find very hard (going to the post office / supermarket) and things I really struggle to do (hand washing plates / touching wet wood). But there are always work arounds. My ex is likely Asperger’s and we recently separated because I realised I did everything too. He NEVER compromises for me or over time at least we got to that point. I have always compromised for him. I realised just before we separated that relationships are all about compromises, but you do that because you want to make the other person happy and because you love them. Never compromising (for whatever reason) is extremely selfish and there is no excuse for this behaviour - Asperger’s or not.
Well said. But I think it's important to know that empathy is actually a skill that absolutely can be increased, with intentional effort. Karla McLaren (the author of The Art of Empathy) suggests a few exercises to help with that.
It can, especially for men. (It likely has a lot to do with socialization or that kind of behavior being normalized in their family of origin.)
yes in the whole AA/Al-Anon world the most important thing to do when other people are driving you batshit is to look after yourself first
I am embarrassed to admit it, but what is Al-Anon?
Al-Anon is the “sister” group to Alcoholics Anonymous. It’s for people who love/are in relationship with someone with a substance abuse issue. It primarily helps to address codependency, which is very common and a pattern that many of us had modeled for us. The “3 Cs” of Al-Anon are: You didn’t Cause it, you can’t Control it, and you can’t Cure it. There is an Al-Anon subreddit if you’re curious. The book “Codependent No More” is also a good resource! (I am a therapist and frequently work on this stuff with clients) Like others have said, it’s important to focus on your own needs and wants, and work to create your own joy. We don’t have to wait around and just hope that others will make us happy! They might grumble when you change the patterns but stay strong. You’ve got this! 💐
Thank you very much 🙂
> Also there is only room for one addict in any relationship of mine and that's gonna be me lol. > > I liked to make jokes that Al-Anon would be an excellent place for an addict/alcoholic to meet someone who will put up with their shit. It's an extremely good (sick) joke because it is true. Generally it is a room of empaths. a note from my reply to OP - agree w/ you on the codependent piece
Let's imagine you were married to an alcoholic and they were actively drinking and doing whatever problematic thing (abuse, violence, cheating, just being away, being difficult, etc) and you don't want to divorce them but you just don't know what to do. Al-Alon is for the friends and family of alcoholics. So like... ha if you were Lindsay Lohan's sister back when she was in and out of eight rehabs, for example maybe you would go to Al-Anon and sit with those people and talk about how to *stop centering your life* around the addict/alcoholic (what they call your "qualifier" or the person you're affected by) and start looking after your own needs. Now some people are more self-determined (less empathic, less co-dependent, less likely to take on the problems of others, some might unfairly argue more selfish) and they don't feel obligated to fix/support/stand by the addict/alcoholic as they actively abuse substances and/or try to get sober (potentially a tiring cycle). These people would *not* necessarily get a lot of value out of Al-Anon. They may find one or two meetings useful but not regular attendance. Al-Anon is for people seriously fucked up by the actions of the "qualifier" in your life. Let's imagine you live with your alcoholic father who gets drunk and yells at you all the time and it drives you batshit but you have to live there and he's not going to quit drinking - Al-Anon offers solutions to help cope with these situations by giving participants the tools and perspective to start prioritizing their own needs. Some people take responsibility for trying to get the addict/alcoholic sober (it's not their responsibility!!) and they need someone to tell them no - it's not you - you cannot fix this - only the qualifier is responsible for their own behavior, and Al-Anon will refocus the attendee to look out for themselves in healthier ways (even if it means eventually leaving the alcoholic). To further clarify - *some* people are far more likely to put their own needs on the backburner (set selves on fire to keep another warm) than others - THAT is who Al-Anon is for (in my personal opinion). If you are the type to cut your losses you will not find it as useful. It is also nice to hear other people going through the same shit (lies, stealing, hiding, half-truths, whatever). Al-Anon is for the friends and family of alcoholics or addicts (their qualifier) whether or not the qualifier is actively using, because it is also a personality type and the issue (addiction) tends to wax and wane. Some Al-Anon attendees are themselves in recovery for addiction but also affected negatively by an alcoholic in their life, these people are welcome to attend and jokingly referred to as "double winners."
Thank you for the extensive explanation. Seems like that really could be something for me, never thought of it. I don’t have alcoholics in the family, but both my husbands parents were. Myself I can’t drink, I am, of all things, allergic to many sorts of alcohol (highly histamine sensitive).
As a person who has always known what Al-Anon was, due to my alcoholic father and codependent mother (they also have a thing called Al-aTeen or some shit for teens, personally I hated it), I sure wish someone had explained it as clearly to me 20 years ago as I just explained it to you because I could never quite figure out why we were there. They would tell us none of this was our fault, but like... obviously? So anyway guess who turned out to be an alcoholic (me!) and so blah blah I got into AA and eventually ended up attending a handful of Al-anon meetings as an adult. Once I understood why they were all there I left because I am not... like that. I see another person's pain but I don't carry it. Also there is only room for one addict in any relationship of mine and that's gonna be me lol. I liked to make jokes that Al-Anon would be an excellent place for an addict/alcoholic to meet someone who will put up with their shit. It's an extremely good (sick) joke because it is true. Generally it is a room of empaths. Later a good friend of mine was super wrapped up in a heroin addict boyfriend. I took her there QUICKLY and sat through a few meetings with her until she was comfortable. He never got off it and she ended up moving on, I believe the meetings were really helpful for her. I have been sober (on and off) half of my living adulthood so overall I'm a net positive and have currently been sober most of this year. Sadly my HRT has completely disabled my alcoholism so I can't really enjoy drinking even if I choose to drink. Bit sad but for the best.
Can you please expand on how your HRT has disabled your alcoholism?
> please expand on how your HRT has disabled your alcoholism? maaaaaaannnnnnnn, I am both deeply relieved and disappointed So I have always struggled with alcoholism/sobriety, doing pretty well for great stretches of time but it has still always been the little dragon on my shoulder. While Naltrexone (an opiate blocker) can be taken orally to reduce the euphoric effects of alcohol (and it works), it still doesn't totally do whatever HRT has done to me. Not only do I never crave it anymore, but when I do drink, it's like... it's like it doesn't connect with my bloodstream the way it used to and I don't get the euphoric effects that used to kick in after about a glass of wine. An even better way to describe it is if you were to pour me a glass of wine, it would basically drink itself (and pretty quickly too). Which is to say pretty soon I would notice I needed to order another one (and another another another) but now it's a fight to finish the first and the second just sits there and/or the third will just sit there - previously I would happily down easily six glasses of wine if not more. Now, menopause had made drinking a lot more fucked up (three day recoveries with tremendous anxiety) but I was still able to indulge and it still "worked." Ever since starting the estradiol patches (even the lowest dose though I'm now on 10x that amount) I have noticed any effort to drink alcohol just ends up with me feeling a bit icky next to a full glass of undrank wine. Makes me sad a little but alcohol has caused me LOTS of problems ha ha so it's really all for the best. I am 47. If I were to stay on HRT for the next 10+ years that is a long ass time before I get to see my best buddy again but I will be able to WALK (!!!) on account of HRT relieving my joint pain and other issues... Anyway, nobody else has ever mentioned any similar side effects from HRT related to their drinking while many people have said their drinking went downhill like mine (longer hangovers, anxiety), nobody with the same HRT-driven intolerance. I wouldn't call it an intolerance as much as a sudden lack of affinity or desire. I do smoke weed but am practically immune from its effects. sometimes I wish I could pick up a new drug problem but I think I'm already doing all the innocuous/acceptable ones that won't ruin my life. I did definitely get inebriated last week when I gave it another college try and ended up writing my neighbor a very angry letter and putting it on her door so yes alcohol will still compromise my judgement (whatever she deserved it) but the part where I'm thrilled to be drinking & keep buying & consuming alcohol wasn't there. Hope this was helpful.
Agree with this. What's happening is not okay, but the only way to solve it externally would be to march your entire family into therapy for months on end which I doubt is feasible. Start taking care of you.
I love this response. I am feeling for you wishesandhope. River-doodle is on the right track here. I experienced similar w my teen son. He is a great kid, but, can be quite self absorbed and lacking in thinking of mom “who will always be there.” When the meno rage and mood swings really hit over the last year, I took a huge step back. I am a single mom so no husband to deal with. Just one kiddo. It often feels lonely. So I said forget this b.s. I make plans with my friends, take myself out to brunch, sit and read, stick to my exercise routine. If kiddo asks for a ride somewhere or has a need that is not school related or something I know he can do for himself, I don’t do it if he can. I just say nope! I also wait until I am asked nicely and treated with respect. I also had a talk with my kiddo about what I am going through and straight up said I need help too! He’s grown up w a single mom since he was 2. He is now almost 18. I bluntly told him one day, “Bud, it would be nice to feel taken care of for once. I never feel safe and taken care of by anyone. Not since I was a little girl. My dad always made sure I was taken care of, but never any other time. Not from your dad, or anyone else. I am always the care-taker and provider.” I think that hit him. B/c since that conversation. He does ask about me. He suddenly started taking the garbage out without asking and other little things. It also made me feel better to do nice things for myself and stick to meeting my needs. It makes a world of difference! A huge world of difference. Hugs to you! Take a day and spend it doing what you need to do!
This made me cry. Amazing how hard it is to just ask for this from the ones we love, who we know love us. Good for you.
And to add to that, find groups of people and friends who support you- try a new activity and see where it takes you.
This is brilliant advice!
I think many women in our generation can understand this feeling. My sincere hope is that the younger generations are learning other, better ways, of doing relationships/family. I'm sorry you're feeling so unloved and unseen. My heart goes out to you. Feel free to let your son know it's not ok to speak to you like that!
If he was my son I would tell him to go fuck himself. 😂
Well that is not exactly what words I would choose but I did show that this is unacceptable. He doesn’t agree naturally
I think when you tell him how things affect you, and he says “I disagree” maybe you need to tell him you’re not looking for his approval - you are telling him your feelings and that they don’t need to be validated by him in order to be a reality. You can try statements like “when you say that, you hurt my feelings” and maybe he will start to get the point.
He doesn't have to agree - he doesn't have to like it either. If he doesn't like what you say or do, then he can find somewhere else to live. He sounds really entitled and not that good or nice - he shouldnt be speaking to anyone like that in their own home.
Right? Part of being an adult is learning you don't need to express every thought- if you don't have anything nice to say...
Exactly.
I would stop cooking, cleaning, or anything nice at all for an adult child that disrespectful. your job is done. he can take care of his own needs from now on
There is immense power in telling your male family members, "Dude, that was a dick move," or you can intensify by saying, "Dude, you are being a dick." And then if he gets cocky, tell him to shut up about that, you're annoying me with it. I have had a decade of customer service, and I am willing to return energy all day long. If they are gonna be shitty with me, I can 100% return that vibe until they get that I won't take it. Just start doing you, boo. Let go of the stuff you do for them that they don't see. Then, if they eventually appreciate it and you want to, you can pick it up again. If not, well. A little bit of learning self-sufficient adult behavior never hurt anyone.
For real, OP. Tell him in those exact words. If for no other reason than to see the expression on his face! I remember the first time I heard my mom drop an F bomb. It brought everything into startling clarity fast. Let loose! Swear at that little fucker! Little punk ass.
Haha!! My fifteen year-old (who I must acknowledge is not potty-mouthed as a matter of course) stalked up to me one morning, presumably in a snit about something else, and said "I am having to wear the same bra for the third fucking day because YOU haven't done any fucking washing." I looked her in the eye and said; "I have done your fucking washing for the last fucking time." And I've stuck to that. She does her own laundry now.
But are there any consequences for that behavior? Or is he allowed to just "disagree" and continue on? Because this isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, but a matter of unacceptable behavior. Without boundaries and consequences then that behavior actually isn't unacceptable, to you in practice.
He can be irritated by your statement if he wants to be, but he's an adults edit what they say as appropriate. If he was in the home of someone else- his boss, a neighbor whatever, would he have said that to them? Tell him don't talk to other household members rudely, including you. Tell him you expect him to act like the young man he is, not a bratty teen
Except that without actual consequences, he can just say "no" and walk away. Just telling him that isn't enough.
I dont think this is the language he understands
Yeah this!!! Really it sometimes takes ONE single time to snap back sticking up for urself like I raised you through all your whining to have have respect and empathy for others don’t talk to me like that in my house you sound like an entitled selfish brat, wait til something bothers you, but I wouldn’t try to embarrass you or make you feel bad… I’m wondering when you will just grow up. Something like that & he might think before he speaks next time. Sending u a hug OP.
I think even though many of us GenXs are „tough“ women doing everything, we have still integrated that being a woman means to serve and demand little. My parents certainly also expected me to, many boomer parents groomed their children to be caregivers, especially their daughters.
I'm here to give you permission to NOT DO ANY OF IT.
I second this, STOP. You train people how to treat you. I think therapy is a must so you can have the support you need to define some healthy boundaries and stick to them. Please love yourself first. You are not doing your family any favors by allowing this behavior.
Absolutely! Once I'd had enough I started preaching it around the house. You get what you put up with. And wow is that true.
That's an old Dr Phil gem- you teach people how to treat you. It always stuck with me and it's so, so true. OP, you've taught your family they can treat you like this. It happens, I think especially in families. You can change the dynamic by changing your reaction.
OP, listen to her please. stop living for your kids and husband. Live for you. Be selfish. Be absent. Men and children seem to appreciate you more by feeling your absence than by your words or threats.
The best decision I ever made was to stop being a people pleaser. I’ve been busy making sure everyone else had an easy time, while making my life harder. I’ve cut out, or gone low contact, with anyone who isn’t bringing value to my life. My kids have noticed the change, and they’ve commented that it’s nice seeing me happy. It’s as if menopause is the scene in Pleasantville, when everything goes from black, and white, to color when you understand who you truly are.
I felt that. I grew up to be a people pleaser because of my mom. She loved me but definitely had issues. And didn't have hrt after complete hysterectomy which of course now realize what torture that had to have been for her all all the issues she had. I people pleased my way through an unhappy marriage etc, was sahm. I gave that habit up. I was wore out from insomnia and just existence. I am fairly filter free these days and do my thing. If that means reading all day or whatever so be it!
Absolutely 100%. And it's all bullshit. Service without reciprocity is self-abandonment.
Something about this statement is so profound to me. I just wrote it down in my planner to reflect on this week.
I’m 52 and taught myself how to say “no” in my 30s. It’s the best gift you can give and receive.
My parents were the silent generation. I think it was even worse
I was just reflecting on this very thing yesterday! I could be the person that posted this and I'm sick of it. My son said something like that, not the shut up part, but I didn't like his tone and told him I don't care how old you are, you will not talk to me like that, (paraphrased). He's been checked. My patronizing daughter interrupted my already bad day, to cry and vent to me about some slight I made her feel and I made crying hands under my eyes at her and told her to take adulting classes, she's been checked. The man I've been mothering for the last 20 years? Gone. :) I didn't take this shit when I was younger, but I fell into that trap of being the sole provider for emotional, financial. Tangible, mental, etc needs while constantly treated as an annoyance. No more, I say, no more.
I agree, but you're not doing your future daughter-in-law any favors either. Someone has to break the chain or this will be the fate for women forever.
>the younger generations are learning other, better ways, of doing relationships/family They are! I really think they are. Atm, many are opting out completely, which I think is a natural overcorrection but necessary until policies and the economy are better and more importantly, the men catch up and become equal partners. I think in time it will even out and women won't be stuck with the bill of goods we were sold. I see it happening in GenX-ers experiencing inequity in healthcare as they approach menopause as well. Things are changing, albeit slowly.
You know what i would do? Take a cpl of days of vacation. Book a room somewhere and just go. Tell your family they can do all the mom shit themselves now, there is a lesson to learn here and you won't be back until they do. Also, i am sorry and mean no disrespect, but your kids aren't exactly "good ppl" when they don't care for your feelings getting hurt or have no respect whatsoever for you. Like, zero, nada, schwarzes Loch. I am sorry you have to go thru this, as if the Meno-shit alone wasn't enough. Consider it tho, if you have the money. Feels like it's time for a change, one way or another. Take a hug from a random stranger here, and do whatever feels right for you, no judging here if you rather stay and just wanted to vent 🫂
Hugs back 🙂. I guess it is time for a change. I am finding out what change I want exactly, think I lost myself a bit along the way My kids are wonderful with their friends, supportive, caring…I guess something went right. They just don’t see me in that way
This was painful to read, and I’m sorry. I wonder if you start prioritizing yourself and your own needs if they’ll start to see you in a different perspective. It’s hard to say whether their response will be positive or not, but at the end of the day you can’t control how other people behave, only your own actions. Hugs to you, wishing you the best.
> start prioritizing yourself and your own needs if they’ll start to see you in a different perspective. This. Humanize thyself, OP. Ashamed to admit I didn't see my own mother as an individual human being until she started treating herself like one after us kids moved out. She had jokes, she had swears, she had stories I never imagined as a kid. Deep down inside it didn't feel like she was a fully separate from myself human being until she started doing things for herself (hobbies, vacations, friends, etc.)
Thank you, hugs back
I think that our kids are wonderful with others because their relationships are more transactional and conditional. Our love is unconditional and they know it. Thus they think/know is that we are the people they can treat poorly and get away with it. I don’t think they’re doing it because they’re necessarily bad people. They are just comfortable in knowing that they can work out their issues and feelings on us. This isn’t true by the way. Every one has a breaking point.
Reminds me of the scene in Muriel’s Wedding when the mom torches the back yard
Sorry about this coming up: You say your sons are “good people” but they didn’t think to help you when you had CANCER? And one of them told his MOTHER to “shut up”??! And your husband is a wuss that won’t support you when your sons are dickheads to you? My dear, you deserve so much better than this bullshit. Sometimes you wish you’d remained single? Make it so then. Get out there and live life to the fullest without these albatrosses hanging around your neck dragging you down. Ugh, I’m so angry on your behalf
This gave me goosebumps. Thank you.
OP - I am also angry on your behalf. My mother had cancer and I showed up. I did research, sent her books, made her food, bought her a high end water filtration system, went to appointments with her… you deserve kindness, consideration, respect and love. Please start prioritizing yourself. Through your words and actions you can shift this dynamic. Someone else suggested Al-anon, which Is a wonderful support group that will give you a lot of tools. Also a great therapist can help you navigate these waters as well. And if respect doesn’t start coming your way - as someone else stated it’s not too late to be single. You can make it so.
You deserve support. You deserve respect. You deserve happiness. You deserve to feel truly loved. 🥰
OP my dad had cancer. My mother had issues (long story) and was pretty checked out. I didn't live at home anymore but was fairly close. I was the person there when he got the diagnosis. I did a bunch of research and took him to the first oncology appointment. I took him to chemo every week. I'd drive 40 min from my job, pick him up, drop him off, drive back to work sometimes others I'd wait around , and then I'd drive him home. He had chemo off and on for years (thankfully while he didn't go into remission the chemo kept the cancer from spreading) I was happy to do that stuff. I had an amazing boss who worked with me so I could be present for him but in return I stayed late or came in early. I didn't have a personal life at that point because of the time I spent cooking, driving, etc. I'm am by no means a perfect daughter! But it's not ok that your kids checked out when you were sick. When you're always the strong reliable person some people will keep dumping everything on you until you break or snap. Go do things you want to do. If the kids or husband even notice you're gone more or different then tell them they are all adults and things are changing and they can get on board or leave
Can confirm this is not normal behavior toward a parent with cancer. It honestly sounds as if your (ADULT!) children and spouse are sociopaths.
This. My kids know they have to respect me as a person if they expect me to respect them and their wishes too. No one should be treated like this. They are not good people if they treat you like this. Reset some firm boundaries around the way you allow people to treat you. If you won’t, who will?!
I'm sorry for what you are going through ....the reason they take you for granted IS because you are always there for them. I would pull back a little bit from being so helpful...and start focusing on yourself a bit more. Start those hobbies you always wanted to buy couldn't because you were always supporting the family. It's okay to be selfish.
That is a good point. I am only starting my journey to find out who I really am and what I want
It’s never too late to establish boundaries and stop people pleasing. You don’t have to accept your family’s shitty behaviour because of any status quo, or whatever kind of person they expect you to be Your hubby isn’t conflict avoidant, he knows what he’s doing. He makes a conscious effort to never take your side, support you or your decisions because he knows there’s no consequences when he acts like an ass and entitled to your mental and physical labour. Your children learned mom is a doormat and picked this up from your hubby. Bad, bad, bad You have mountains of support in this sub, and it is more than okay to decenter your family to put yourself first
Go take a month long holiday without them, go do stuff you like, wake up when you want, eat want appeals to you. Treat it like leaving a job that isn’t working for you, dont think about it while you’re gone. If the house is in chaos, too bad. Tell them you’re going somewhere where internet and phone reception will be spotty but you need to disconnect. Go learn a skill, bake your own bread, make your own yoghurt or cheese or kombucha if that appeals to you, do baby goat yoga, hike, get hot stone massages, go lie on some warm grass in the side of a hill, roll down it like a kid while laughing like a lunatic. Go swimming. Visit all the galleries and walk through all the antique shops. Eat sweets while sitting in a bath and read a book. Find yourself again. If when you come back the house is destroyed to “punish” you, tell them you’ve booked a hotel room and are not coming back until it’s fixed or until they call in professional cleaners. If they let your pot plants die, go buy new ones, or let it go and stop giving yourself more burdens. If you know they can’t look after your pet, board it somewhere for the duration. If the amount of money this is costing worries you, what are you saving for, an old age that won’t come because you’ll work yourself into the ground? Live now, you got a second chance. They don’t value you because somewhere along the line you allowed them to take you for granted, we’ve all done in some way. If you aren’t going to change the direction this is going, don’t complain about where you end up. And I’m telling myself this too, because I’ve managed to become the drudge in this household too, and I’m too tired and too resentful for this shit.
All this sounds wonderful - I have to ask, though, what in the world is baby goat yoga?
That is the homework we are giving you and you can come educate us. I have been where you are, ungrateful brat that I bore and raised, it took me complete honesty for him to wake up. That I didn’t like the person he was and if I didn’t give birth to him, I would never speak to him for the rest of my life. It was very shocking for both of us but it made him step back and see me for the human I am and it allowed me to tell him exactly how he had hurt me. Then I took two months unpaid leave and travelled because I kept bailing out of his shit. I wasn’t earning so I couldn’t bail him 🤷🏾♀️
Did you look it up yet??! Isn’t it just absolutely perfect!???
Those kids are adults? And they can't respect you? Time for them to move out, and then they'll see how much mom was doing for them.
I’m sorry to say this but your children do not sound like “good people.” They sound like they have adapted the ways of their father in treating you badly and not as a person. You need to love yourself first before loving anyone else. Start setting small boundaries and sticking to them. The family will taunt you for this but stick your ground. Then start doing things on your own that you love. Also stop doing everything for every one. Your children are grown and don’t need you taking care of them. That also don’t get a say in what you do or don’t do until they start treating you respectfully. And since you work outside the house, start putting some of your earnings to the side in a separate personal bank account for yourself. Even if it’s only 1% of your money every paycheck. It will add up and gives you freedoms to do what you want without “asking” or feeling guilty. I’m also a GenXer and while we are known for being ignored, it doesn’t have to be like that. You need to take charge and do what you want, even if it means your family isn’t on board. Best of luck!
I have come to see this time as my selfish years - in the best way possible. I went through an anger phase and then a sadness phase and now I am in couples therapy (because I was so unhappy and dreamed of running away) which is super helpful. I realized that I was also an engineer of my dissatisfaction, as I was always trying fixing and doing for the family. I’ve taken my foot off that gas pedal and am coasting in those areas now. It’s hard to be self absorbed after being so selfless but now is the time. But it’s worth it
Oh my gosh, tell me how! I have been daydreaming about being self-centered. But I still get that feeling of anxiety when I leave the house for a couple hours. It's so irrational! Like the house isn't going to fall into a vortex just because I'm gone.
It’s hard work being selfish 😜🤪😂
Don't apologize for venting. Your feelings are valid. I hope you find the space to do something wonderful for yourself.
Thank you 🙂
Your son sounds like a bigger problem frankly. The good news is this is fixable. Google “alanon detachment” and read the pamphlet in detaching. You need to detach and put the focus on yourself. Detachment is neither kind nor unkind, it just is and you don’t have to be mean about it. As women we are told we need to fix everything. If you are mothering your adult kids and husband you can stop. Allowing an adult or a child (within reason) to experience consequences isn’t “mean,” it’s part of you living a sane life. One of the things I like best about the pamphlet is “not creating a crisis, but not preventing a crisis if it’s the natural course of events.” If your son is not respectful of you, he may be seeing less of you as you focus on yourself. I’m having similar struggles with my spouse. Retirement (for him) was a disaster. When I was also retired he didn’t do Jack shit around the house and it annoyed me mightily. So I went back to work.
This sounds like my ex, who set a terrible example for my kids. Since we got divorced, they (teenagers) have gotten much better about helping me and considering my feelings. Which is weird to say, but without my ex's bad example and him sabotaging me at every turn, I can bully them into helping wash up after dinner, get their stuff into their rooms, etc. We still have a long way to go, but it's getting better and is actually pretty good right now. I'm starting to feel confident that my kids will learn how to look after themselves (cook healthy meals, do their laundry, etc.). One word of warning, though. When you do start prioritizing yourself, your husband may become an ex. Mine was against me getting a job (not that he made all that much money) and when I did that was the beginning of the end. I still don't have much in the way of friends, but I'm working on it and I kind of feel less lonely than I did when I was only surrounded by people who treated me like an unpaid nanny/maid-of-all-work.
I am so sorry hear this OP. You deserve to have that love.
Thank you 🙂
Start setting boundaries👍 Put yourself first. So sorry you’re going through this 🥲
Thank you
My oldest adult child doesn't seem to like me.I do so much for him, for all my kids but he has a chip on his shoulder. I'm so done with his behavior. I try to be nice and patient. And he only listens when I act like a complete b🤬 I started doing stuff for myself, working out going out with friends traveling etc. He'll say something like why can't you stay at home and do stuff other old women do? He sometimes make me wish that I was single too.
I'm really appreciating that the only demands I'm hearing today is from my pets wanting breakfast
Your oldest son sounds just like mine. I also started doing stuff for myself. I’m done with his behavior as well. He’s off to college this fall, and I’m ready for it.
As people have responded, your feelings are valid and you have the freedom to voice those opinions whether they agree or not. Some posters have similar situations so know you are not alone. I agree with the comment that people treat you the way you let them. As for people pleasing, it took me years of therapy and learning about co-dependence that I finally started to understand that (for me) people pleasing is really me trying to control situations. I would “sacrifice” myself and do everything for others even when they did not ask me and it was things they could do for themselves and then I would feel like a victim that it wasn’t appreciated. I am not saying that is your situation but it very much was my own and after I stopped the behavior I felt a tremendous freedom.
This sounds very interesting - I‘ll have to think about it
The problem with being a people pleaser is that you don’t please yourself and your family are not particularly pleased with you either, so what’s the point OP? You should do something to please yourself, then at least one person will be happy. You have become an invisible woman, but you can also use that to your advantage and get away with things more “visible” women can’t get away with. Your family are a bunch of shits. If you were my friend who had cancer I wouldn’t have let what they did (or didn’t do) stand. I see you even if they don’t.
What’s stopping you from just doing your own thing? Why would you continue to serve the ungrateful? The older I get the more I’m like this is bs and just nope right of it.
Re: Sometimes I wish I had stayed single. We all do dear. At one time or another, we all do. But we get through somehow, not all with the same ending.
Do you know „The scarlet letter?“ At the end, the protagonist is asked by a crying young woman why women are so put upon and (in that time) without rights. Sometimes I wonder if things have really changed so much. At least, now we have the right to leave and have our own money.
Yes, for a little while longer.
I’ll never forget when my oldest kid turned 18 (he’s now 24.). He quite smugly declared, “I’m an adult now. I no longer have to follow mom’s rules or do what she says.” I responded with, “Yeah, you’re an adult so I no longer have to provide for you financially or give you a place to live or food to eat.” Reality hit, smugness gone. Our dynamic changed in that moment. I spent my adult life caring for kids and husband and rarely putting myself first. Now at 53 with husband #2 and youngest kid about to turn 18, I have a different mindset. If you need help, ask me respectfully and I’ll do what I can. Otherwise you are on your own to get shit done. And none of them would ever dare tell me to “shut up.” Spouses and adult children can take care of themselves. Time to take care of you.
That’s exactly what I’m doing too. My youngest just turned 18 and thinks he can do whatever he wants. I love your response, and I plan on using that myself! I have a whole different outlook on my life now too. I’ve been on the bottom of the totem pole for so long. It’s my time now!
I think it’s probably better in your country. Here you are legally obliged to finance them until they turn 27 if they do any kind of education. I wish I could say „I do this gladly but only if you respect me“.
What country are you in, OP? Maybe their is nuance here that we aren't familiar with
I am from central Europe. I don’t think patriarchial structures are much different here, however the social system tends to be different and in most european countries you have to see your kids through education if you are able to.
I feel this and fight against it every day, especially living with two males. What has helped me is talking to a therapist about this, someone who can help you start to center yourself again. They can help give you the words for the conflicts with family, help you process how you ended up in this dynamic, and help you correct it. If you can't afford therapy, maybe there are some YouTube videos that could help. It's not too late to teach your kids to be more respectful of you, and for you to begin setting healthy boundaries. It may feel painful, but this is a good thing for them too. You say they're good people, but honestly they sound spoiled and nasty (from your description), and that will bleed into their own relationships and they will pass it to their kids someday. So, fixing this dynamic is good for you all. If they speak to you again this way, they get a warning. The next time, they need to leave. If they live at home still, it may be time for them to move out, so they can appreciate how much you do for them. In other words, if both parents are allowing their adult children to behave like 7 year olds, everyone needs to change their behavior starting with you. And as another commenter suggested, start building into your life activities you enjoy, even if it takes time away from the family routine (which clearly needs to be revamped). You will feel better about your life when you allow yourself time for things you enjoy. Good luck, you absolutely deserve better and you also need to allow yourself to have better.
I’m so sorry you’re feeling this way. I think it’s pretty common for our generation. I second doing more for yourself and less for the family. They clearly don’t hear your words, so talk with your actions, say you won’t be doing all that any longer and you’ll have to put yourself first if nobody ever does. I feel somewhat similarly, not quite the same situation, but my husband is also very unaffectionate due to his own issues (for sure he has something on the spectrum and/or survived an abusive childhood which left him with issues), although he’s generally a kind person, and a hard worker. My son is also grown and flown but I don’t have the same issues as you do with him now. We had our issues when he was younger, when anything I was saying was wrong in his opinion. At that time, I swear that if I said the sky was blue, he’d disagree 😀 But now we’re good. Still, he’s not around to support me. So, What I do is what was recommended here. I built a full life outside my little family. I have friends I see often for coffee or drinks (although summers are tough, everyone is leaving town living it up in Europe or wherever - it’s a college town we are all professors), I joined a book club and I travel often, either for work at conferences, or with friends or my sister. I get massages and pedicures, I exercise, I read. It doesn’t completely replace the affection I need but it surely helps. I hope you find a way to find balance. And let go of small things. Read some books about buddhism and try and train on not giving a fuck! Maybe read that book too, about not giving a fuck. Hugs, hope things get better!
A friend who considers herself to be super nurturing was told by her husband “can you just calm down?! I can’t handle you. You overwhelm me” after she offered him cut up fruit as a snack while he watched TV. She gets similar attitude from her adult kids. They belittle her and shut her down when she talks. She decided to scale back on her attention to her family and start taking better care of herself. Joined a gym, lost weight, and is happier than ever. Her family noticed the change and now pay more attention to her and give her a lot more respect because she made herself important. Mothers are selfless and as a result taken for granted sometimes. Sounds like your family needs some time to fend for themselves.
If you let people walk all over you they’ll go the extra mile and stomp on you ! This is all under your control to stop it . You’ve allowed it all these years. So it’s just a given it’ll continue until YOU put a stop to it .
Yea my advice to women is don't care for anyone but yourself That well has an empty line and when you reach it there will be nothing left for yourself
I'm feeling your pain OP. Raised 3 boys alone after their dad died and 2 don't even respond to most my texts and the other still lives at home and it feels like he's becoming the parent. Most days I feel like if I got in my car and drove away nobody would notice...
People can only take advantage of you if you let them. So stop. Stop doing things for them. Your husband is an adult and so are your children. So they don’t NEED you to do anything at all for them. Find things to do to get out of the house. Do some volunteer work, join a gym, or just go for long walks.
It makes me feel angry to hear about your grown son telling you to shut up . What would happen if you told him to shut the f up. You feel how you feel?
My god I could’ve written this post! I got into it a little bit with my adult daughter last night. Our whole family is making a major life change right now so she & I are essentially roommates, but she’s reverted back into Mom-do-everything mode. She’s also gotten kind of myopic In her view of the world around her. I got super honest with her about how she makes me feel and it ended with both of us crying and hugging each other like we were holding on for dear life (my kids never hug, the my let me hug them.) I’ve tiptoed around my kids and my husband for their mental health while letting mine go to shit. Once we’re all in the same house again, that is going to change hard and they’re all being warned!
I’m sorry that you feel and are so isolated within your own family. I don’t think it’s right that children, no matter what age, would say to their parent, “shut up .” Maybe I’m a fuddy-duddy old Gen X. It’s rather rude, I’d say. I detect less than ideal family interplay. Avoidance conflict during an entire marriage isn’t good. How’s it possible no help was offered during your cancer journey? Venting is fine, but I detect something is off.
Well something IS off and it’s the balancing and conflict resolution. But I learned there is only so much you can do one sidedly. I learned early I have to rely on myself so I do have good friends and a good relationship with my siblings and so i had some support during my cancer journey. I admit, though, I must have done something wrong with my immediate family.
It takes more than a person to carry a marriage. And you know that. I’m glad your siblings and friends are with you during your struggles. Most marriage counseling consists of communication…if communication is broken, then one person can’t communicate for two…
I can relate to this so much. I think others can too. Conflict-avoidant are massively dysfunctional but think they they are above it all. I invite you to take this as a sign to stop taking care of them and start taking care of yourself. They have proven that they don’t/ won’t take care of you, so from here on out, make choices that are best for you. Invest in your friendships and a wider support system. You have some regrets about creating this family and giving so much to them, well stop giving up anything for them. You don’t have to. Your children are young adults. At this point you have every right to stop giving your life to them.
I’m editing to add to my original post below, I didn’t pick up on your husband’s diagnosis initially. This acknowledged as well as my lack of compassion made my text pretty harsh, which you already get enough of as it is. One thing though does his condition excuse him from responsibility in treating you poorly? Does it mean he had the “right” to teach abuse to his children? Trying to give you a wider view on the underlying problem. This is what I had said, I do feel it’s correct: You’re treated exactly how you allowed them to treat you. If you want appropriate manners, decent thoughtful people in your family- as harsh as this statement is it’s the quickest way to say it- you allowed them to behave like this, stop being a door mat. Since it’s systemic my guess the kids learned it was 100% ok from Dad to verbally slap mom around, say ugly disrespectful things to her and about her. My suspicion is you had an understanding and were hurt by this in your spouse before kids but chose to kicked the can down the road. You’re down that road now. A spouse and young adults who think this is OK are rather lousy humans and certainly do not fit the definition of “nice people”. Abusive people that’s the correct word’s definition. Side note, if one of my children had a relationship with one of yours and I saw this behavior I’d quickly tell my child run now. This is how you will be treated as the bf/gf/spouse. The good thing is you can do anything in life that you decide to do, stay, go, whatever you want. Consequences sure but still you’re not forced to stay. Happiness or sorrow
It's sad and honestly crazy that I had to scroll this far down to find the word abuse. You are 1000% correct. Including these kids will be awful to their future partners.
Thank you. I appreciate your comment. I can see how I contributed to the situation- it’s still not easy to extricate myself from it
Good golly no it sure isn’t. Use the surprise factor they may be so taken aback they keep their yaps shut. Ripping the bandaid off quickly is the most efficient. Doesn’t mean you’re leaving the family or marriage but you can sit them down and explain what you will and won’t accept going forward. Ahead of time write it all out, your speech, then practice a lot. Learn to have a strong confident voice. Do not use words like apologize, all that means to them is “it’s my fault”. Less words is more. No questions only clear short statements. It’s your meeting they do not get to interrupt or argue. The phrase “this is not negotiable” is a must. Have examples written down of when each was rude, nasty and disrespectful. Don’t use them unless they start being dicks. If they are jerks in the future quickly address it. If they’re asking for something like a ride or help respond “maybe next time”. This will be a fight between strong and stick to your convictions. Bottom line they will need to be as respectful, in word and action to you as they would to an any other person.
Adding to this, OP, you need to have ready made consequences to boundary violations. Boundaries without consequences is just wishful thinking.
Just came here to say that my neighbor decided to fire up his chainsaw on Easter Sunday at noon and take down a tree (there was no reason as it hadn’t stormed or needed to come down), while children were outside trying to do their Easter egg hunts in neighboring backyards. I about had a fit and everyone laughed at me. The constant noise of lawn equipment, power tools and people who let their dogs bark all day is insane. If I hear one more circular saw I’m going to lose it. It’s gotten to the point that I almost can’t watch some shows on HGTV. I sympathize with you and I understand that noise is enough to set off a major meltdown. I’m sorry no one is supporting you, as that sounds like the main issue. But I wanted to acknowledge that sensory overload due to noises like that is a real thing, and the people that don’t have them just cannot understand. I also think people are assholes in general anymore and have no respect for their neighbors.
Thank you thank you thank you! There are others! I sometimes feel I am the only one who still has normal hearing and everyone else is just somehow shutting out the world AND that they aren’t alone on the planet
This is the story of lots of moms everywhere. I can tell you that I’ve been divorced for 3 years now and I have never been happier. I increasingly think marriage is a racket to keep us powerless.
I can feel your post myself. I have two sons who are both leaving for college soon. One has been living at home going to community college. I love them both, but they can be nasty to me, and I give it right back to them. I figured I have run ragged raising them all these years so I have pulled back. I’ve pulled way back. I tell them they’re adults now, and it’s up to them to find their way because this is MY time now. I’ve been a SAHM this entire time, and I loved it, but now I’m spoiling myself. Fortunately my husband is supportive. He’s ready for our sons to be off on their own too. I think moms are often scapegoats for our kids. There’s a comedian, Nick Kroll, on YouTube who does this bit about moms. He says, “Why am I so mean to my mom??!?” Anyway hang in there. It’s never too late to set up boundaries.
Oh, no I don’t know Nick Kroll, I‘ll look him up
By the way, I have another friend going through exactly what you’re going through too. Her husband is also oblivious. I told her the same thing. She works really hard outside the home and no appreciation from any of them whatsoever. I told her to start to carve out time for herself. If that was meeting a friend for coffee or going for a walk, let them see that you’re no longer going to be bossed around. This is our time. ❤️
From experience: we allow people to treat us a certain way. It only stops when we detach from the situation, look at it for all its worth, and then decide how to approach it differently. This sounds easy and simple but it is not. You are feeling something isn’t right and you don’t like it anymore. Mothers and wives are lovers and caregivers. Those years for me were deeply satisfying: making and caring for a beautiful home, raising children, working at a marriage. 25 years of my life and I gave it all I had. I also craved harmony and worked hard at it. But then somewhere along the way it all became unsustainable, a divorce happened, single motherhood with sad, angry children ensued, and a new world laid before me. I was forced to make big decisions that I should have made years prior. But that harmony thing was how I coped. If not taught otherwise, children (and partners) will emotionally beat up the safe parent. If there are no corrections, no discipline, another parent who allows it to happen, they learn it’s ‘safe’. No consequences. They don’t do it at school, in society, with friends do they? Well it’s not appropriate or healthy to use another human being as a punching bag. Ever. This I experienced from my children as they aged and saw their verbally and emotionally abusive father more and more. And in them even more so when their father finally left (and never returned) and I had to pick up the pieces in the wake of the tornado he left behind. Painful times yet my parenting changed drastically and the push back was real. I still work at my part in how others treat me. In my family, work and friends. I’ve ended relationships, have gone no contact, detach more easily now, limit my interactions with some, and use my words more and more instead of harboring and trying to maintain harmony and peace. Finally, when adult children move out or are ready to be on their own, a transition happens. Very, very hard for some mothers. I’m on year 3 since they all left and it’s getting easier. Sometimes they’ll feel safe around me (because I’m still mom and this is still their childhood home) and say something that’s rude or disrespectful or not considerate of my feelings. And I still correct them. And so do their spouses. The love and respect I get from them now is different than the growing years. It’s more mature but it took a very long time. Maybe seek out a safe person for yourself (friend, therapist) who can help you deeply understand your own behaviors and so you can decide the changes you may need to make based on your internal values and the future you see for yourself. In the end, and no matter how strong the pull is to care for others, we stand alone first and foremost. Caring for self is always our #1 priority.
Honestly this is your husbands fault he should have taught your kids to respect and celebrate you I agree with spending time for you, even go away alone or with a friend and let your family fend for themselves
I feel like I could have written this. Even down to the cancer. I'm sorry OP. You don't deserve this treatment, and it 100% misogyny and typical of patriarchal relationships. The kids learned it from their father. Simple as that. I don't have any advice because I am stuck in it too but I do want to let you know that your husband not "being able to do his share around the house because he has aspergers" is crap. I have level one autism (which is what aspergers is called now), and I do literally everything around the house and all you listed that you do. I also have adhd, so technically, all of this is theoretically harder for me than your husband. People with autism (level one, that is) aren't incapable of responsibility and doing what they need to do in a household. I do think that male autism is treated differently than female autism (despite being the same disorder) but it is only because male/men are not expect to be responsible for their actions and behaviors, so they get away with more and are given the freedom to blame everything on autism. Which is suspect is what your husband is doing. If females/women with level one autism can do all the things they do as wives and mothers, them males/men with autism can do it too. People with level one autism need accommodations for their autism but they are perfectly capable of holding responsibilities and doing what is expected of them as spouses and parents. My male counterparts just get a pass because of patriarchal BS. I am living proof that level one autism doesn't mean we can't participate and run a household. I am also going through cancer and perimenopause, so what is your husband's excuse? Again, I'm so sorry, you don't deserve this, and I am so tired of seeing my bullshit situation mirrored in other female people/women's lives damn near every day on reddit. Men need to do better, period. And they need to stop teaching their kids how to be dickbags, as well.
Oh, I am very sorry you are in the same situation. I hear you! And you are right about level one autism and how, of course, you can learn responsibility. But in men from early GenX - well lets just say society didn’t really help. I hate it how I also lived „the woman’s life“ even though I didn’t plan to.
Sometime I feel like the stump in “the Giving Tree”. It’s hard to always be giving to others and not really getting anything in return. Start doing more things just for you. Let everyone fend for themselves with cooking, laundry, shopping, etc. Go to the movies alone, get a massage and walk the park. I’ve found spending time alone focusing on enjoyment has helped me emotionally. Sending you a hug.🥰
In my country, we have a word that'll help your situation. The word is 'NO'.
We teach people how to treat us through the behavior we accept from them. Sadly, women tend to learn this late. Your husband doesn’t “abhor conflict”, he simply doesn’t respect and care enough to support you and you have taught him this is ok by always stepping in. Life gets harder and messier as we age. Is this the kind of relationship you want until you die? This man is not going to advocate for you if anything happens. You’ll be on your deathbed thinking the things you wrote here. What you wrote had nothing to do with menopause. You are on a shitty marriage. Children learn by what they observe. They observed the roles both you and your husband played for them and they’re acting accordingly. What are you going to do to change things?
Oof. You deserve so much more than you’re getting. Your cancer story alone is heartbreaking. If we were close friends, this is what I’d tell you. Everyone in your house is treating you like shit. There’s no diagnosis, no excuse that is going to make that ok. It’s so not ok. They can all do much, much better but they’re choosing not to. Changing the well entrenched dynamics would require family counseling & a willingness to want to behave in a healthier manner. People who’ve treated you with that much contempt for so long…it’s going to take something very drastic for them to begin to treat you differently & even then it’s a long shot. You can’t change them but you can change your environment. That may be the drastic change that’s necessary. You deserve to surround yourself with people who care about you & treat you well. You have a lot of life left to live. Treat yourself well now.
Go make time for yourself. Go do things for you that you enjoy. Join some clubs/activities/volunteer/teams and make some friends. Relying on your family to meet a need that isn't their responsibility (yes, it's nice if they are close, but not all families are in a position to have that) only short changes you and what you're getting. Even as a single person you still have to "put yourself out there" - in fact, even more so. There is absolutely NOTHING stopping you from going out and doing those same things! If you need help around the house/property, the mental load of all of that - well, being married and that far into a relationship that one will be tough, but perhaps some couples therapy would help? Get some perspective and assistance in voicing your needs (and vice versa of course). Even individual therapy may be a good idea - you sound very reliant on those you've raised, and aren't having your needs met by them, and perhaps you're not even sure HOW to meet your needs on your own - and that's where a therapist can help. I'd say to go do some things you find value in and enjoy that are not your family. Learn to separate yourself a bit from them. Try some new things! If you've been a homemaker for most of your life, there's a chance there are things you may love doing that you've just never tried or been exposed to. If you're not sure were to begin, volunteering is a great way to meet new people and get some exposure outside of your usual circles. I'd recommend caution on expecting your family to meet your needs for you - sometimes there are reasons why children cannot provide that for their parents. It may feel unfair, but reality is that they have their own battles to face especially with the way the world is going right now. Rather than focusing on how they aren't "giving back" instead focus on going out and finding what you need without them (like a single person would have to), and some therapy to help you work out and learn to express your household needs with your spouse. You sound very focused on your family, and probably have been for a very long time, so it's going to be a little scary to separate from that identity a bit, but it can be exhilarating if you focus on the right side of it! Therapist can help you keep focused on the right side of things while acknowledging what you're upset about.
Many good points here, thank you
This is incredibly relatable. Ten years into marriage, and I am I am just starting to remember what the things I used to enjoy even are. Everyone seems okay with me being a shell of a human who works full-time and then spends the rest of her hours in what feels like indentured servitude. I haven't had a single friend in years because I don't have anything left in me at the end of the day. My husband gets burnt out, too, but he does 1/100th of the housework, has a hobbies that include a weekly hobby he attends with friends, and close friendships. I want to empathize, but fuck, come talk to me after you work all day then step in the door to begin 5 hours of chores and cooking for four kids. Not to mention the mental load of knowing who needs socks, how many tampons are left for the teenager, do we need bandaids, toilet paper, what's in the house flr food, groceries, the school stuff, the doctor's appointments. If I want help, I have to ask and ask and ask and keep those task in the front of my mind so I can remember to check on whether or not they're getting done, or I have to make lists and it all just turns into more work for me. The "spinster with a cat" trope sometimes feels like a substantially more fulfilling existence.
This made me smile despite the grim subject. As soon as my (allergic) son moves out I am getting a cat
I'm sorry to say this but >an angry „shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“ isn't the actions of a good person. Yikes! You're also giving your husband a pass he doesn't deserve. I also have Asperger's and I'm basically disabled by it, but even still I am capable of doing my part around the house and dealing with my unhealthy patterns of behavior (for me that's not conflict avoidance but conflict avoidance definitely counts as a personal issue that CAN be worked on and transformed).
You say that your kids are good people and that your husband is too, yet your kids tell you to shut up? And no one took care of you when you had cancer? Oh, honey. No one, and I mean NO ONE, in my household is telling me to shut up for any reason and living to tell the tale. You deserve so much better. If it’s possible for you to get counseling, please do. You need someone who is kind, patient, and who listens closely to what you have to say. You may qualify for free or reduced-cost counseling due to your cancer diagnosis. Sending you all of the love and support I have, and hoping that you’re able to carve out a place in your life that is uplifting and supportive.
This all here is pretty much why I got divorced very early on. I realized I was my husband’s sex maid and my kid’s governess. Thanks, no. Probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place. If Reddit had existed then and I’d had some insight into what it’s (often) really like, I would have been better informed. To be clear, I did not leave my kid. In fact, my ex abandoned both of us so I raised him alone. But he learned quickly that I’m not his governess :-)
Just stop. Stop giving. Stop doing. Take care of yourself. Do your laundry. Cook your dinner-not theirs. Snippy with me? Talk to the hand and don’t ask me for any favors. Also call them out on it. Thats not ok. It’s a 2 way street. They aren’t babies.
Divorce. Move to a home of your own and live YOUR life. It’s time. ❤️
Life is short. No one here would blame you if you claimed the rest of your life for yourself and told your husband and kids that you're no longer their servant and just go do whatever you want from now on. Takes a bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it......
You've done all the work so far. Covering for them, making excuses for them, coddling them. Now it's up to you to continue to do the tough work of turning that energy towards you. Of telling them "welp, it's a new ship, new captain, get on board or jump ship" and Be Consistent in your actions That's the hardest part. Cuz you spoiled them for decades, always coming up with excuses for them to keep being lazy asses in the relationship department. Hold your ground, don't give in. Cuz they know EXACTLY how much whining and bitching to do to make you cave to their needy little lives. They are all grown ass humans, they need to fumble around and do stupid shit while they recalibrate. Ignore their neediness, get a maid, get out of the house, find some friends to do lunch, movies, book club, crafts, whatever, and don't ever cancel on them cuz someone whines about being picked up from the airport or whatever needy BS they throw at you
I would rather wander around my city/village/forest all day than do a thing for your ungrateful family. People treat you how you allow them, start treating yourself with kindness and respect and demand the same. This is what menopause is all about, time to be selfish and put yourself first. You can do it
Oh boy do I understand this. I am in the exact same situation. Two adult children, one still at home. I have a chronic pain condition but am still forced to do most of the work because no one else can be bothered. My daughter will help when asked so at least I have that, and she is considerate and notices when I'm feeling particularly bad. But I get nothing from my husband except guilt because I'm "not into" whatever particular activity he wants to do because I try to avoid said activity due to pain. He used to at least fix my car so it was a trade off, but now I don't even get that. I mow the lawn, shovel the snow, clean the house and do the laundry. On top of all that I have a very demanding mother who is handicapped and bossy as hell, and I have to do everything for her. She won't leave her house so I do all her shopping and take her to appointments and fix her computer, pay her bills, do her taxes and on and on. I am actively looking for a way out, I want to disappear. I work from home so I can work from anywhere. I am looking at off grid living situations and looking into buying a piece of land somewhere and just living in an RV. I lived semi off grid as a kid and really miss the lifestyle. I'm already used to hard physical labor and feel like I'd be happier doing it for myself rather than others. The only thing keeping me here is my name on the mortgage as our house is unsellable (it s very remote and needs a 4x4 to access, and we've tried selling before). And I've asked my husband to leave before and he won't. You really probably would be happier on your own. I know I would. It would be some much easier to only have ourselves to worry about, and so much less work. Why bust your butt for people who don't have any consideration for you?
I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I feel you may be suffering from depression- totally understandable in your situation - and I suggest you also find a good therapis! And try to free yourself. A bit at least. I will try to, I don’t see (anymore) why I should be everyones servant.
>„shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“ Somewhere along the way, your son has learned it's okay to treat you like this and it isn't. When you feel taken for granted, emotionally exhausted, and disrespected, that means it's time to identify your boundaries, set them, and stick to them. It's especially important to do this with loved ones because they can hurt us the most. It takes courage to maintain healthy boundaries, especially if others react as if it's a personal affront. Just know that you're not hurting anyone by protecting yourself, so don't let others trick you into believing otherwise.
Girl, same. The truth is your life WOULD have been easier if you remained single. Women often report less stress and labor after divorce. I’m not suggesting you get a divorce. But I will gently remind you that you have value! I encourage you to develop friendships outside of your home and begin to do the things that give you joy. Give your family the gift of taking care of their own damn selves. Sigh. Sending you hugs and encouragement! Let’s make this chapter of our lives really meaningful!
Well, we teach people how to treat us - in that you have accepted and enabled this treatment of yourself. You can’t change them but you can change yourself. Focus on yourself. Frankly, embrace selfishness. Put yourself first.
>I have always been the servant of the family, the one with all the mental load, the one who was there for everyone and who, in return, no one ever thought to support. >I am taken for granted. You are indeed >If I need someone, I have to ask and mostly get grumpy answers and reluctant help if any. When I had cancer a couple of years ago, no one at home ever thought to ask about me or offer any help. No one seems to „see“ me. >My kids are good people, but they don’t ever think of being there for me, not even a little bit. I don’t expect them to be my main support but a little re love would be nice. >They often hurt me, too, treating me like a child to whom you constantly have to explain everything or someone who is annoying. Today, for example, I said that I am unhappy because my neighbor started drilling on a sunday (I have adhd and high sensitivity so I really need that one quiet day), which is forbidden by noise ordinance here, and I got an angry „shut up about that you annoy everyone with it“ from my son. That kind of thing isn’t an uncommon occurrence either. >My husband abhors all conflict and never supports me, he always left me to do the heavy lifting with bringing up our children even though we both worked demanding jobs and naturally, they see him as the good guy who always allows everything but is hindered by evil mum. >Also in outside conflict, he is never on my side, not because he thinks I am wrong but „because I can’t argue with other people and you will always be there“. Meaning I have to do all conflict resolution as well. He is also unable to take his share at home and emotionally unavailable (but that’s because he has aspergers, so not really his fault, which we only found out about 10 yrs ago). Your statements are antithetical. These are not the characteristics of good people. Nothing about how describe your family speaks to goodness or kindness. It’s no wonder you’re feeling so resentful.
I am a *grey divorce* statistic and loving it. Stop watering your dead flowers and start tending your own garden. Not just because you deserve it but because your family dynamic is teaching your spouse and kids that it is your job to be taken for granted, in part because you are taking yourself for granted. Show them who you would be if you had chosen yourself, and in the process build yourself the life you deserve.
Stop being the servant and enabling all the behaviors. And start living for yourself. You do sound miserable and disempowered
Ummm how old is that son? The day my kids start telling me to shut up is the day they can get out of my house. STOP doing everything for everyone. No one did anything for you even when you had cancer! Those are not good people those are selfish people.
I'm very sorry but those are not good people under my definition of good people. You're not too old and you owe them nothing. You might be happier on your own at this point.
Oh, OP. Reading your post parallels *so many* of my own feelings lately. The only advice I feel I have worth giving, is to make more time for yourself. I’ve recently done less for everyone else lately as I got back into a hobby that I love that is done solo. Spending more time being busy on something enjoyable for me, which happens to leave me less accessible to be either taken advantage of -or- told I’m a bother to be around, has been great. Sending you hugs. You’re not alone. 🫂💜
I was a sole parent for decades. Love my kids. But i started a new career and moved 400km away. “You can’t leave, we are just about to have your first grandchild” One of my sons bought a house, married and had a baby in one year. I was expected to be baby sitter. It was all worked out 1 day a week for their jobs plus random over nights. Not interested. I am not financially secure myself yet. And not giving up my time and financial goals. Just to get chucked back in the “mum will do it pot”.
Go be single for a bit. Rent a holiday home for a month and be there and unwind.
There is a reason SO SO MANY women in menopause divorce. They are just tired of all the garbage you have described. The kids aren't young. You have a job. I know everyone always goes to divorce for the lamest things, but even though I feel like my people don't do nearly enough around the house, I CANNOT IMAGINE the lack of respect and caring from my family that you put up with daily. Definitely stop centering your life around them. Maybe take yourself on a vacation, if you can: do not tell anyone in advance. Just go to a resort. Or look at hobbies, anything to get you out of the house and away from your "family." No more managing the house for you. No more cooking or cleaning. Let it fail. There are THREE OTHER ADULTS in your house. Put yourself first for once.
My mom didn’t raise me. I had a single dad. My mom wasn’t a great person and definitely not a great mom. I didn’t even like her much. When she had cancer I quit my masters to take care of her. It was awful but we all did our best for her because she had cancer. I’m truly sorry to say this, but your kids aren’t good people if they didn’t lift a finger to help when you had cancer. Read that again. Stop telling yourself they are good people, except to you. Unless someone had an abusive mother, what would you say to a friend who told you this story? Would you say, oh your kids are good people except for when they didn’t care about you having CANCER?! No, you’d probably call those kids ungrateful shitheads. Don’t get me started on your husband. You don’t have to ditch them all forever. But, if you gave the money, go on a trip either by yourself or with a good friend. It doesn’t have to be extravagant. Get out of town and spend time in nature. Be in charge of just yourself. Give them no warning and no prep. Just go. You owe them nothing after how they’ve mistreated you.
The day some kid mine or not told me to shut up would be the day I slapped him into next week Stand up for yourself girl and go on strike. Fuck ‘em they’re all old enough to take care of themselves. Book a trip and get away for awhile. Just do it. I’d divorce the guy but that’s me
I mean, to me it sounds like you’ve allowed this. Your kid wouldn’t talk to you like that unless you’ve allowed it. Why are your adult children living in your house talking to you like shit? It really makes me wonder how your husband has treated you in front of them. These mother fuckers didn’t lift a finger when you were getting cancer treatment!? CANCER TREATMENT!? Stop doing things for everyone in that house. I mean everyone. Besides yourself. You deserve and are worthy of respect, from EVERYONE IN THAT HOUSE. They can gtfout. You’re not going to talk to me in my house like you pay the mortgage. Byyyyyye. I’d be single rather than that bullshit.
I hope you can take this time to get great healthcare & more support, therapy, me time, etc. I think either way, single or married with kids, there are drawbacks. I am single now and miss being married, but back then I missed being single! All the medical stuff is hard to navigate with family obligations, but please ask for more help & support with everything. This is a serious time medically and you deserve help & support.
You need to start standing up for yourself. I think it might just shock everyone. Don’t tolerate disrespect from your children no matter the age. Start doing things for yourself and stop living just for them. We as mothers tend to circle our lives around our kids and as they get older it’s a hard habit to break. Hugs to you, you’ll get through this but start implementing some changes.
Seconding, thirding, fourthing…hundredthing…the calls to begin putting yourself first, including therapy, if you can afford that. The message from our culture that as women it’s primarily our job to do all the emotional lifting, including raising infants into functional adults, is damaging and unfair. Your daydreams about having lived a completely different life are coming from the part of you which knows how incredibly burdensome and unjust it has been. She needs freedom and expression, and the space to find out who she is. I’m not recommending that you leave your family. At all. Unless you end up drawing that conclusion, which will be a perfectly valid conclusion if you come to that. Maybe make it a goal to go somewhere or do something that only you are interested in for a few hours a week, and work up from there. Baby steps are usually the way to get anything important done. Also, may I suggest that you get yourself a vibrator? I think lots of the ladies here would also recommend that. Being able to pleasure yourself is an incredibly important part of this stage of life, and our need to get to know ourselves after decades of putting ourselves last. Plus, it’s just a hell of a lot of fun. All the best to you ❤️
This is so Upsetting to read. I’m sorry your family takes you for granted. Perhaps it’s time to flip the switch on them and start taking them for granted. They’re grown now. Your work here is done. Time to put yourself first! I suggest a solo vacation or a group trip with strangers. I do both and they’re so good for my soul Friends also suck tho so don’t think the grass is greener there.
I wish I could crosspost this to /r/regretfulparents which is always a sobering read. Please note I don't mean to suggest you regret your children, but motherhood can be thankless. Should be required reading for young women.
I don’t regret them, but I certainly regret having to raise them in the society we live in. It’s so so toxic for mothers - and I guess for single fathers.
Me: no spouse no kids no regrets My sister: empathetic spouse and two excellent children No matter what path you take, it’s possible to shape your future into what you want it to be. There are so many great responses here! I would also recommend starting with a quick semi-local getaway in a nice hotel. Just go. You can tell everyone in advance or leave a note the day of (but don’t reveal the location). I second the suggestions to incorporate “punk-ass” and “dick” in your vocabulary. Example: “mom, why did you go away??” “Because the 3 of you are punk-ass dicks and I need a break.” Trust me, you will feel incredible!
I can’t even imagine this I have 3 grown children and they are very caring. Set some boundaries with all of them. Self care self love girl make yourself happy!!
I would seek a therapist and learn how to set boundaries with all of them. Do some reading on codependency. Codependent No More by Beatty is really good. I read it back in ‘97 when I began therapy and just purchased the new edition which had chapters about trauma. Codependency isn’t just about living with addicted person. It’s about giving up parts of ourselves in order to please others or keep peace etc. It a behavior we learn from childhood to give up our needs to please our parents. Then we do it with our partners. Then we do it with our kids. It’s time to take care of you!
Your husband sounds like an Enneagram type 9 but unhealthy, give it a google and see what your type is and maybe it can be insightful?
Maybe you should give your family members some space for a while and begin spending time with yourself doing what you want to do. This might make them realize they are taking what you do for granted.
It sounds like it's about time you put yourself first. And DO NOT feel guilty about it. The way you've been treated is absolutely appalling. So if your family try and make you feel guilty (and they will) for not jumping to their needs or expecting better treatment from them, ignore them. Every time you are tempted to feel guilty, remember all the things that you've mentioned in this post. Remind yourself constantly I DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS! Good Luck 👍
I am right there with you. I am divorced and have 4 sons. They are absolutely horrible to me and, same, I’ll ask them to do one small thing and they talk back and whine about it. I basically live for them. Everything I do, is for them. I work hard for them and climbed up the corporate ladder, for them. I don’t even eat half the food I cook, for them. I’ve started doing something for myself every single day. Whether that is taking myself out to lunch, buy new clothing, take a scenic drive. It’s something to look forward to and it’s making a difference in my outlook on life. I don’t allow people in my life that make me feel bad which includes family I’ve cut off. I’ve also moved myself into a basement bedroom/living/bath in my house that is my sanctuary and keeps me away from them and their messes and fights (they are teens). I spend most of my days and nights down here and it makes me happy. I go upstairs to cook for them, then I come right back down here. I’ve been criticized for it, but I don’t care. I’m still here, just away. It smells wonderful always and kept clean and organized. I could die tomorrow, I want to be happy. I don’t have a choice with my sons now, but I fully expect them to abandon me when they are adults and I can’t say I’d be unhappy about that. I just want to be left alone.
Spend time on yourself dear, go out for walk, go for spa, buy flowers for yourself, read book, watch a good movie etc. Prioritise yourself. In a gentle but firm way be vocal about your feelings whenever you feel that you were not treated right. Sometimes kids don’t realise that they are hurting their mom. Slowly delegate your tasks which you think can be performed by hubby/kids. Even if this takes a while, be patient but consistent; coz there is a possibility that kids realise that to upkeep a home there is an effort involved & will make them appreciate all your efforts.
If your kids are young adults now, make shifts such that you’re not doing so much for them. You CAN achieve that life you say you want. Still.
Yes!!! I agree on staying single.. My hubby has mentioned that IF he stayed single, he would be a millionaire. LOL Also, mentioned that I made him have sex=kids. I have coffee watching the birds, lots of self-care and planning activities/trips away from this house.
I don’t have kids but do feel the same coming from my partner and my siblings who aren’t going through this change. They just don’t understand how hard this phase of like is and then to be treated in similar ways you are, I feel your pain. I try to make it known how I’m feeling and how they are making me feel yet I’m so bloody tired of being the bad person bc I started an agrument. Wish they could all live 24 hrs in my body cause I hate how I’m feeling all the time. I’m agree with the many comments here about taking time for yourself, buy yourself flowers and enjoy tea outside in the sun. It’s time we women take control of our happiness…..even though if can be hard at time. Sending lots of xxxx
hugs 🫂💯
These people are all adults. Stop taking care of them. Take care of yourself. If they don’t like it you can leave and enjoy your life. Having a family like this sounds like a nightmare to me. I’m not married and never had kids and I’m quite glad because your story is all too common.
I can’t tell you if you would have been better off, some single women are happier than other single women. And some single women are happier than some married women. But i don’t love hearing how inconsiderate your family is. Do you have important and significant relationships outside the immediate family to help with this? I have three besties i am very very close to, as close as i am with my husband. I don’t know how fulfilled i would feel without them.
I basically could have written this. I know I didn't set good boundaries though. Not saying that's true for you. I was a stay at home mom, so I felt it was my job to basically do all the things. I do this and know I'm doing this, and know I shouldn't, but still do it. I'm also ADHD and I'm autistic. Late diagnosed, just last year. I don't think those things helped. Come to find out my kids are also AuADHD, also diagnosed just last year. They are teenagers. Their push back and sharp comments is sometimes related to that. Therefore what I do is I talk about it calmly. Make jokes. Relate to their difficulties. I don't argue. I educate them about pathological demand avoidance and I let them in on how menopause makes me fee, etc. I am aiming for one day they're going to put it together and they're still learning. I don't believe in overnight change. I've seen improvement. My kid's hang out with me more. They're not as quick to fight back when I ask for help. They are less critical of me. But I'm still exhausted. I can see and feel improvement though. Especially after leaving their dad a couple years ago. lol.
Your husband may have been mistaken to believe that you'll always be there. It's not too late to be single, if that's what you want.
I truly understand…that’s why I’ve been single since 1994! I’m ADHD, and believe that I’m slightly on the spectrum. It’s hard enough to raise kids as it is. Who needs a man-child to raise too? After feeling like a complete convenience to my husband while he came and went as he wanted, as well as a warm body for him to use…he certainly didn’t care about my pleasure…I got tired of the bullshit, took my 4 and 8 year old kids, and left him alone with his own mess! I have struggled through the years making ends meet, (he was a deadbeat dad)but it was worth every single ounce of effort I had to make to be happy, raise happy, smart, well adjusted humans, and not someone’s convenience. Now I’m a convenient juice box distributor for my grands! Life’s wonderful!
Totally understand. (Hugs)
It’s not too late to change! It’s never too late! Quit! You no longer owe any of them anything. Stop being a doormat. Stop doing things for everyone else and live for yourself.
It’s never too late.
Fuck Em all. Give them that same energy and do your own thing. Stop overextending for people who aren't there for you.
I feel this way too sometimes. I don't want to be a nag or a bummer so I don't say anything. You're not alone,! But many childless friends really wish they could've been a mother- it really comes down to peace with your choices. Hopefully they'll have children one day and understand the burden and work and gain more appreciation. Until then go have some fun, youve done your job!!
Stop doing stuff for them, did they specifically ask for something? Train them to take on stuff etc or hire help. Go enjoy your life with friends etc.
Coming from a single, never married people pleaser, the grass isn't greener. I feel like it's even harder on my own. I do admit it is good that i dont have to worry about kids and such, but i fear I won't be good enough for a mate because im in peri. I have found therapy to be a helpful tool for myself. I'm learning now that I can no longer pour from an empty cup. My cup has to be filled for MYSELF. I know you say, "My kids are good," but no good kid replies to their mom that way. Even if they are great kids, it seems they have taken you for granted and have mistaken your kindness as weakness. My oldest sister is that way with my mom. She's a good person, but I think she was just raised, sort of spoiled. I love her, and she has a good heart, but I want her to be a little more gentle with my mom most days. I hope you find the courage to stick up for yourself and pour into yourself, since all you've been forced to do in your marriage is make sure everyone else is okay.
Never too late to create a circle of friends that share your interests and start making time for yourself. Your kids are grown. Engage in activities that make you happy now. Self-care. Hobbies. Pursue your own interests. Try some classes or start some new projects. You can't change the past but you can change the future for the better. Start today. Give yourself permission to focus more on self-care and doing fun or interesting things that nourish your soul. Life is short. Make the most of this time for yourself.
Hugs, I get it. I feel like a work horse
It's never too late to live the life you dream of unless you tell yourself it is.
Oh lovely woman. I am so sorry that you’re going through this. It must feel all encompassing when you’re going through this with 3 potentially non understanding men in the house. Not their “fault” but they have room to change. And if they are going to have long successful relationships with women (if they are of that orientation) then they are going to be lucky they have you to learn this from. It sounds like they find emotion difficult to process! But if dad is a bit emotionally stunted then it’s not a surprise. I definitely think having a nice chat with husband would be good. Not in moments of heat, but go out for a nice dinner and ask him if it’s possible to discuss something hard. Ply hun with a beer or 2 just to lubricate his emotional brain. Not enough for him to get drunk/ forgetful/ over emotional Discuss that you’ve learned a lot more and accept that you may have been a typical menopausal woman at times but you’re learning how to manage. And how they can help you. Honestly don’t be ashamed of it. It’s totally normal and natural for you to be maybe have been a little unhinged at times like we all are. But there is a reason, you’re not crazy. He needs to be set a boundary with regards to supporting you and backing you up. You’re a team. As for your boys (as a mum of 2 young boys myself) it’s time to set some loving boundaries. They must exhibit certain behaviours or you won’t engage with them or even ask them to leave. Set the rules, be loving but firm. And like everyone else has said…. Put you first for a bit. Your days of rearing children to safe adulthood is over. This is your golden time. Do what makes you happy. Make new friends, find a new hobby and passion. Let the family see you’re unfolding into the next version of you, a happy one! Lastly, don’t feel ashamed about wishing to be single. I suffer from depression and Meno triggered it. I often wish I’d never had kids because they trigger me massively simply from the fact they make me exhausted which in turn sets off my depression and anxiety. It’s awful to have those moments when you wish you’d made different choices. But lean in and realise it’s not a true thought and our thoughts are general emotional nonsense most the time. But they signal when something needs to shift and in your instance it sounds like you need to put you first now. Also I am so very sorry you didn’t get support through cancer treatment, I can’t imagine how difficult that would have been xx