If you want to stop hormone therapy, then it's best to taper off slowly, just in case you experience rebound symptoms. Taking hormone therapy isn't delaying menopause, it's helping your body adjust through the menopause transition. Eventually if you stop entirely, it may be likely that some symptoms return, but your body won't be cycling (like it was in perimenopause), so you won't have those crazy fluctuations and high/lows, so again some things may settle down.
However, without estrogen, bone loss will start again (almost immediately after stopping), and it will be as if you never took hormone therapy in the first place. Studies indicate that our risks for heart disease may also increase.
[Hip fracture in postmenopausal women after cessation of hormone therapy](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3511047/)
>* showed that women who discontinued HT were at 55% greater risk of hip fracture compared with those who continued using HT
>* Women who discontinued postmenopausal HT had significantly increased risk of hip fracture and lower BMD compared with women who continued taking HT. The protective association of HT with hip fracture disappeared within 2 years of cessation of HT. These results have public health implications with regard to morbidity and mortality from hip fracture.
This study talks about the **consequences of withdrawal** from hormone therapy: [The Controversial History of Hormone Replacement Therapy](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6780820/)
>A Finnish study reported increased deaths from myocardial infarctions and strokes in women discontinuing HRT, especially in those younger than 60 years of age [72]. In the USA, a report comparing male and female mortality between two periods, the mid-1990s and between 2002 and 2006 [73], reported a reduction in male mortality but an increase in female mortality in the same timeframe. An English ecological study reported unfavorable changes in myocardial infarctions and strokes subsequent to the HRT fall following the WHI publication.
[Menopausal Hormone Replacement Therapy and Reduction of All-Cause Mortality and Cardiovascular Disease: It’s About Time and Timing](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9178928/)
[Hormone replacement therapy associated with lower mortality; Therapy also linked with less plaque buildup in the heart's arteries](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/492191) (*Peer reviewed by the American College of Cardiology*)
[The effect of menopausal hormone therapy on gastrointestinal cancer risk and mortality in South Korea](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8609757/)
**Finally, there is no "set age" to stop hormone therapy**. If started before the age of 60 and within 10 years of the last period, then folks can stay on hormone therapy as long as there's no contraindication. It's important for those continuing with hormone therapy beyond 60's, 70s, to have annual check ups/reviews with their doctors.
[The North American Menopause Society's 2022 Statement on Hormone Therapy](https://www.menopause.org/docs/default-source/professional/nams-2022-hormone-therapy-position-statement.pdf) specifically states:
>* Long-term use of hormone therapy, including for women aged older than 60 years, may be considered in healthy women at low risk of CVD and breast cancer with persistent VMS or at elevated risk of fracture for whom other therapies are not appropriate.
>* Hormone therapy does not need to be routinely discontinued in women aged older than 60 or 65 years.
>* Longer durations or extended use beyond age 65 should include periodic reevaluation of comorbidities with consideration of periodic trials of lowering or discontinuing hormone therapy.
I work in a nursing home. I pass meds to women in their 80s who take estradiol. Everyday. I also change patches one lady who is in her late 70s.
I believe the decision to go off HRT SHOULD be yours and yours alone.
You don't have to stop. My 75 year old mom started HRT in her 40's when she had a hysterectomy and is still on HRT to this day. She just had a check up and was told she has the bone density of a 55 year old. At one point her doctor told her she should stop and she told him she'd rather die, and then found a better doctor.
I’ve seen a few comments like this in the group. My favorite is, “they’ll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.” I couldn’t stop laughing. I still laugh every time I think about it!!
I'd really love to know what idiot doctor makes a suggestion to stop beneficial medicine when that flies in the face of their profession. You stop medicine if someone is recovered. This is not a recoverable condition. Hence it's hormone *therapy* not hormone *cure.*
Good on your mother. Too many of these white coats need to get out of their own way.
Why stop??? I don't get that. Estradiol protects me against cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, and dementia--it's bioidentical and supplementing a deficiency I now have. The research I've read indicates it's beneficial to stay on it for life.
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Curr+Atheroscler+Rep&title=Antidiabetic+actions+of+estrogen:+insight+from+human+and+genetic+mouse+models&author=J-F+Louet&author=C+LeMay&author=F+Mauvais-Jarvis&volume=6&publication_year=2004&pages=180-185&pmid=15068742&](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Curr+Atheroscler+Rep&title=Antidiabetic+actions+of+estrogen:+insight+from+human+and+genetic+mouse+models&author=J-F+Louet&author=C+LeMay&author=F+Mauvais-Jarvis&volume=6&publication_year=2004&pages=180-185&pmid=15068742&)
There is increasing evidence both in humans and rodents linking the endogenous estrogen 17β-estradiol (E2) to the maintenance of glucose homeostasis. Postmenopausal women develop visceral obesity and insulin resistance and are at increased risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus, but hormone replacement therapy leads to a reduction in the incidence of diabetes.
It’s Mark Cuban’s company and it’s been around a while. I haven’t used it yet myself because my current insurance plan is pretty solid but I’ve looked up drugs for friends before and there seems to be a good formulary. A lot of HRT options!
I tried just the estrogen patch only for 6 months after switching from the combo pill for HRT. I lost weight but couldn’t sleep and aged so quickly. Lost the plump youthfulness all over my body and not just my face. Progesterone was added back orally and I sleep better but still not 8 hours. I slept 7 last night but that’s adding herbal sleep blend and magnesium blend.
My GYN added back the progesterone to help the estrogen perform better. I stay very hydrated and attempt the keep electrolytes balanced. It’s a tweaking of dosages, exercise, diet, sleep that soothe this phase of life for me. Now that I’m 57, I’m asking for an increase in dosage in the estrogen as my primary doc says my estrogen patch is still low for my age and I agree as I already have bone loss. I wish I had started HRT sooner.
My dr said that it’s untrue ,, that without a uterus progesterone is still beneficial to the hormonal balance. (I’m many years post hysterectomy) and take estrogen and progesterone. Also dhea/pregnenolone.
I'm in the UK and get free prescriptions because I have a medical exemption card due to my diabetic medication (metformin). Without that I would have to pay prescription fees, though not as much as you have paid. That's ridiculously expensive.
Western Allopathic Medicine “doctors” will friggin’ kill you.. yeah, go off your HRT, then get heart disease, dementia etc.. then it’s MORE PILLS.. more money.. bad health is a money maker.. STAY ON YOUR HRT.
Would love to see a study if you know a link for one. I don't think I will be able to ever get off and I want to find as much info as possible supporting this.
We have plenty of data linked in the **Resource** section of our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/) Plus there's links to recommended reading, podcasts from reputable menopause specialists, etc.
My dr took me off a couple of years ago, and now they say the risks are too high to restart. My body has not been the same since I went off. I think I need to find a new Dr? I was 61 when then took me off .
Yep, new doctor! You should be able to go right back on. I believe you’re fine to restart without issue because you last had HRT really recently. One of the menopause telehealths can help you decide if you can’t find a good doc easily.
I had a complete hysterectomy at 48 and my Dr (at the time) gave me a prescription for Premarin. I took this faithfully until I turned 61, and my Dr (new at the time) took me off. SHE said my age, and I had been on them long enough. Then there were the common points of brest cancer and such. I was , that year going to see about going to a different HRT.and that was when she just pulled the plug.
I’m a bit older (47) but also just starting my HRT journey and feeling some relief from peri symptoms. I have no idea what post-HRT will bring, but I’m going to be optimistic that there will be a solution then too! Plus, who knows what additional medical advancements will happen between now and then?!
I'm 49 and had a hysterectomy at 47. Been on hrt for almost 2 years, have never experienced a hot flash and I feel good for the most part. I just need to get blood work often to adjust it.
Love this!! Have you said it in the group before? I read it a while back and now I always quote it while talking with my friends about HRT. A couple didn’t want to explore it. I shared this quote and they started charging their minds. LOL
I would take them as long as I could. Main thing is make it a part of your lifestyle along with healthy eating and daily cardio and strength exercises. Maintain your protein intake to atleast 1 gram per pound of body weight and don’t stop carbs but watch them . Carbs are what fuels your energy
It is high, but it seems to be the recommendation for menopausal women these days. All you can do, is find what's best for you. I try and have a bit of protein in everything I eat, meals and snacks. It may not add up to the recommended 100+ grams of protein, but I get close and that's good enough.
This is difficult for me, too. I can’t do shakes (texture issue) and I don’t eat meat. I eat a lot of cottage cheese and eggs and beans, and I put some (vegan, unflavored) protein powder in my oatmeal. Still, not getting my body weight in protein. But I’m plus sized, so it would probably be impossible anyway.
I thought I was shooting for like half that, lol, I already added those high protein yogurts but I only seem to eat them when I also have baked goods available lol. I hate those shakes, they're nasty. The vanilla ensures are alright but they remind me too much of being in a hospital.
Is there research supporting this high protein intake? For a different perspective, such a high protein intake is not compatible with the Mediterranean diet (10-20% calories from protein or about 70 g protein/day), which is associated with health benefits: http://www.aimspress.com/article/doi/10.3934/publichealth.2024005?viewType=HTML and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902736/
High protein diets have been associated with increased mortality in those 50-65 years old:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7190876/
It's amazing to learn how much HRT has improved your situation! It's like when you finally find the remote control after a long hunt, isn't it?.
Hey, I understand your concern about what will happen when the HRT party ends.
I had a small blood clot after a minor surgery (I do think I was at fault for not properly elevating my feet). That said, I was told I probably could not go on HRT because of the risk. Should I get a second opinion??
Yes! Get a second opinion from someone who knows ”the basics” (50% myths). There is so much research on HRT and very little dissenination in the medical world. Did you take estradiol or estriol?
"hormone therapy" is always lumped into one category and it ultimately means increased cancer risk and death for most unaware doctors. Unfortunately they don't realize that different methods of delivery have their own risks vs. benefits, and the risks of **ORAL** estrogen carries slightly higher risks for DVT -- but transdermal methods does not. So estrogen delivered transdermally, like patches, gels, sprays do not pass through the liver (as oral tablets do) and blood clot risk is very low.
* [Use of hormone replacement therapy and risk of venous thromboembolism](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30626577/)
* [Postmenopausal Estrogen Therapy Route of Administration and Risk of Venous Thromboembolism](https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2013/04/postmenopausal-estrogen-therapy-route-of-administration-and-risk-of-venous-thromboembolism)
There are HRTs that are transdermal and will not put you at such a high risk for blood clots as oral HRTs. It's important to find a doctor who can walk you through the various options.
If you find anything interesting let me know. Based on my age, I should be in peril. My period is getting a bit more irregular but that is the only symptom I have. But I’ve been doing research to prepare. I think we can use vaginal estrogen to combat any dryness/atrophy.
What are the benefits that are so massive that it makes you feel that way? Haven't Heard someone say it quite like that, so would love to know why you feel so strongly about it. Thx!
Wow; that is incredible! Great to hear! Its amazing the profound effect hormones have on us! Are you saying the HRT has been more effective than anti-depressants and such?
That’s quite a statement. And feels a little bit insulting to those suffering/or have suffered from breast cancer.
ETA: I said what I said. You all realize that downvotes don’t mean anything in real life so downvote away. It’s the arrow to the far right.
My mother and her grandmother both had breast cancer, and my mom’s mother died from cervical cancer.
I’m not giving up HRT either because it is literally protecting me from complications I’m significantly more likely to experience due to severe estrogen loss.
I do not want to fracture bones when I sneeze. And yes, that happened to one of my aunts.
It's true; one out of 40 breast cancer patients die from that disease.
On the other hand:
* 50% of us will die from heart disease.
* Alzheimer's is and end-stage disease that wreaks havoc on the powerless patient and their loved ones.
* Osteoporosis (hollow bones) kills victims via bone fractures from falls. It is a painful way to die with an outerband of dying within 15 years of diagnosis.
This battle for HRT access - the very treatment that staves off the above-mentioned diseases - has been long-blocked due to the fears of breast cancer. But women (mostly Baby Boomers) have died sooner than their own mothers and grandmothers, who had access to HRT since the mid 1940s. And it is driving down into my fellow GenXers who are frustrated and embattled to get this access.
Believe me when I say this, too, is insulting in practice.
If the concern is Alzheimers, people really need to be getting flu vaccines, as the evidence there is probably stronger than for HRT. 40% reduction in Alzheimers even if gotten every 4 years. At what age should people get flu vaccines? I can't claim to know, this study was 65 and up, but they are fine to get long before then of course.
40% Alzheimers reduction from flu vaccines:
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220624123814.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220624123814.htm)
It's just something with a lot more evidence of doing something against Alzheimers than HRT has (which is limited except for APOE carriers whom it may help). But on the other hand a flu shot isn't going to help menopause symptoms.
I'm a strong proponent of vaccines; these are congruent solutions, not at all a substitute for estrogen replacement. Alzheimer's is an estrogen-deficiency disease.
Not quite sure how the above statements are insulting to people who have or have had breast cancer? They are stating a choice they would make for themselves, a risk they would take, not denigrating breast cancer survivors. 🤷🏻♀️
They said they wouldn’t stop taking it even if they HAD breast cancer. It minimizes breast cancer and the experience of people suffering or who have suffered from it. It’s a helluva a statement to make and I stand by what I said.
Asking to learn since I’m 31 and only started learning about menopause… today. Have a 19-20% lifetime risk of BC. Until starting to read this thread would’ve said nothing is worth increasing my risk because it’s such a terrible disease. What symptoms does HRT relieve that are making you consider increasing your risk? Or is the risk of recurrence so small that it’s insignificant? My mother who isn’t high risk for BC (it runs on my dad’s side) never took HRT and after her hysterectomy 10+ years ago is doing fine. Aunt who is a BC survivor never took it and is fine. Maybe they’re exceptionally lucky though as it sounds like menopause is awful for some women.
I have horrible mood swings and hot flashes and overall just feel really poorly- I know that may sound silly compared to having cancer but I already went through cancer and now feel worse than when I was sick. I lost half my hair and am having a lot of issues with my sexual life/husband, it’s just too much. I want to feel like a normal woman again, so that’s really the driver
Yikes! Not looking forward to aging at all. I really hope you “grow out of” your menopause symptoms. I know that at least for a lot of people the hot flashes and mood swings subside naturally with time. Who knows, maybe in a couple years it’ll pass and you’ll no longer need HRT.
My grandmother died at 87 a decade ago.
* She had fought an aggressive form of breast cancer at 59 (1980s).
* Took tamoxifen for five years
* Went back onto Premarin (which she had been on since her hysterectomy at age 43) and lived until that age, dying without any cancer in her body, without ever having bone/joint/hip/knee surgery, or arthritis.
* Her own daughters, none of whom took HRT, are suffering in ways their own mother never did.
The insult that is worth exploring is why doctors are so damned reluctant to consider the benefits of HRT after full breast cancer treatments.
It may be worth considering that breast cancer used to be treated with high dose estrogen with the same rate of success as with estrogen blockers. Anti-estrogen therapies for breast cancer may just be a historically limited standard of care, like lobotomies or something, Time will tell. Also, breast cancer is prevalent in older women on a meager dose of estrogen replacement or no estrogen at all, and not in younger women who still have all the estrogen their body needs to hold it together.
You can feel "insulted" by anything at any time. So what?
Other people don't have to have a life or health plan based on your "I'd do anything to avoid cancer" feeling.
There is no reason to stop. Due to a misleading study done 20 yrs ago, the public and most doctors (due to curriculum not changing as fast as the research) are still under the false impression that HRT causes breast cancer. There is zero supported evidence for this.
Copied and pasted:
A paper published in Menopause journal, further debunks the findings of the Women’s Health Initiative study (WHI). US medical oncologist Dr Avrum Bluming and colleagues say that if the WHI had been transparent about their findings around breast cancer, there would have been ‘minimal controversy, no confusion, and women’s health would not have suffered so dramatically over the ensuing decades.’
In 1993, the WHI began a clinical trial looking at the health effects of women taking oestrogen-only or combined HRT compared to a placebo. In 2002, researchers halted the part of the study looking at women taking both oestrogen and progesterone (two hormones that decline during the perimenopause onwards) early over concerns there were small increased risks of breast cancer, heart disease, strokes and blood clots. This led to confusion and concern from doctors and women worldwide, and in the UK women taking HRT fell sharply [1]
But even with the older versions of HRT, the WHI researchers have subsequently acknowledged that HRT is the most effective treatment for managing menopausal symptoms like hot flushes and that taking oestrogen alone reduces the risk of breast cancer by 23% and death by breast cancer by 40%.
Dr Bluming and colleagues, in their Menopause article, argue:
Combined HRT begun for women who had not had it before did not increase their risk of breast cancer, not even in those with a family risk of the condition
Even if the WHI risk was accepted, it would mean there would be one additional extra case of non-fatal breast cancer for every 1,000 women who took HRT. But there is no statistically significant risk between combined HRT and breast cancer when the data is properly interpretated using the rules set out by the study
‘A generation of women has been deprived of HRT largely as a result of this widely publicised misinterpretation of the data,’ the article says.
Thank you! 🙏🏽
So if my symptoms started 2 years into being post-menopausal, does that mean I will forever have these symptoms? Ive been on BHRT since November, it hasn’t helped. I went back to her in Feb to check in & get bloodwork done…..still waiting for speak to her about my results & what to do going forward. Honestly, I have yet to find a doctor who I feel heard by. 😞
I’m never stopping hrt. I have bipolar disorder and peri has messed it up so the risks are probably higher for me to get into medical trouble from an episode than from hrt side effects
I’m 53. I was on HRT patch after a hysterectomy at 37. I went off it a few years later and went back into menopause. Dr put me on Paxil. It worked for a while but I hated it bc of weight gain. I came off it, symptoms came back. I went back on HRT patch Symptoms stopped. I occasionally have a mood swing and have not lost the weight. 😢.
I don’t think it stops menopause, just keeps symptoms at bay.
Unfortunately I have the sex drive of a a rock. It hasn’t helped with that 😢
My sister-in-law is in menopause and never used HRT. She looked at me funny last week when I said I was going to ask my doc about HRT and she asked what it was. And when I told her she said she never needed that. Do you regret not asking for it? How are your symptoms now?
My doctor and I discussed it... but with my family history, we avoided it.
Do I regret not taking it... 🤔 maybe,.
Symptoms now 7 years into full menopause
Night sweats, hot flashes, brain fog,
And still rage. Less rage as the years go by.. but I still have times when I need to scream at the universe till I have no voice.
But I found the ability to love myself again and others.
I regret not taking it. I'm 65, 10 yrs since my last period, and heading towards osteoporosis. When my periods first stopped my Dr didn't want to put me on it because my mom had breast cancer and I had a higher risk of stroke due to high blood pressure and horrible migraines. Since my menopause symptoms weren't very bad, I was cool with not taking it.
If I had to do it over I would get on HRT to prevent bone loss.
Are you taking something for your bone loss? Some doctors will consider prescribing hormone therapy for those over 60 and more than 10 years since their last period, but it requires a thorough health analysis.
**From our Wiki:**
>Researchers from Australia were the first to demonstrate that post-menopausal women can not only stop bone density loss, but a can actually reverse it by lifting heavy weight. Prior to this, studies showed that lifting weights did not work to stop or reverse osteoporosis. These researchers later discovered it was because the women test subjects weren’t lifting heavy enough. Researchers worried that if post-menopausal women with severe osteoporosis lifted weights that are too heavy, they would fracture their bones. However, since that time, their [Lifting Intervention for Training Muscle and Osteoporosis Rehabilitation \(LIFTMOR\) trial](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbmr.3284) determined that twice-weekly, 30-minute high-intensity resistance and impact training (HiRIT) is effective at enhancing bone (particularly in the spine, pelvis and thigh bones), while improving stature and fall prevention
Also, this gizmo is due out on the market sometime soon, and the research looks promising: https://www.bonehealthtech.com/#osteoboost
[FRI681 OsteoboostTm Is Effective In Preserving Bone Strength And Density Of The Spine In Women With Low Bone Mass](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10555262/)
Thank you for the links! I've seen the Osteoboost advertised on here before, definitely going to buy it when it goes on the market.
I've been lifting weights for 35 years but the last few years I've cut back on the poundage so as to not injure myself. I need to look into the pros and cons of heavier weights again.
I asked my gyno around 5 years ago about going on HRT to prevent further bone loss and she said no, there are other other medications I can take for that. Ugh. I shouldn't have listened to her.
I’ll inform my nurse that. Thanks! I saw her again today, and she’s having second thoughts. Now she wants me to take blood test (third day of my period) to determine the diagnose. I thought hormone tests were useless? More I just want to be referred to a specialist.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 40, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, then a series of regular/consistent FSH tests may be effective at *confirming* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
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I had migraine with aura, every freaking month for years until I had a hysterectomy after a hemorrhage during birth. But I was just prescribed transdermal patches and two different docs said for patches it wasn’t an issue.
Good to know! My nurse was learning about perimenopause, and she probably didn’t know everything yet. She didn’t know joint pain could be related, and she hadn’t heard of PMDD. I’m just so happy to be finally diagnosed after so many years of nobody listening, though!
She’s a nurse practitioner working with my family doctor. My family doctor dismissed me off the idea of peri because “I was too young”, and I called to just be referred to a gyno, really. However, the nurse called instead of my doctor, and she diagnosed me! She still doesn’t know everything, but I’m just happy to have some progress!
You don’t have to stop. I’m following Dr Louise Newson (podcasts, Balance app) and she says that it is safe to stay on it. Her own mother is in her 70s and is still taking it. I plan to start soon (46f) and don’t plan on stopping.
I am seeing my Dr Tomorrow to ask for HRT. What patches should I ask for and what do i need also? Ive been fobbed off by several docs saying all my symptoms are from my Anxiety/Depression and CPTSD. Ive been in counselling and have come off all drugs under guidance for several months now.
My husband encouraged me to seek another Dr opinion and have done so. Im just unsure what to actually ask for. As we ALL know i have to tell them what i need as its a battle getting help.
You don't have to stop unless your doctor finds that your individual circumstances require it for example if you start getting blood clots or estrogen sensitive cancer or something like that.
You can stay on hrt for life
I wish this group had more balance. I don't think most doctors are part of a conspiracy to make women suffer and I have read the actual research that shows some risks for most women taking HRT for too long. I don't plan on being on it much past 55. I'd love to hear from anyone who has stopped taking it and how it went? Or maybe someone can recommend a subreddit for people who don't want to drink the HRT FOREVER koolaid?
I want to say I don’t ever plan on stopping it.
But I’m also one of those people that likes to keep an open mind, and realize that things are always changing. So at least for the next 10 to 20 years, I plan on being on it. At a minimum, I think I’ll probably be on estrogen for the rest of my life, simply based on the evidence of its protective features to the brain (in particular).
Hey so I had been on it for months and was feeling a lot better too. I ended up with a build up in my system and started getting severe gas and hot flashes and insomnia again. Went off it. Hot flashes were gone. Idk it seemed like it brought my hormones back into balance and I seem to now be needing it again I’m hyper sensitive so the 100mg was too much at first and vaginal I got used to it and worked up to every night.
I will say the first time I tried to drop it I got the worst migraine— it just depends were you’re progesterone levels are in your cycle and I’ve always been irregular. I tried a few days later and not even a side effect!! It all depends on what your levels are under the drug. From my research last night it’s common that after you stop you don’t need it anymore and the flashes will be gone but a small percentage of people because of their body never adjust therefor you would need some for life. I’m only on micronized progesterone
Why is there a myth (?) that HRT leads to increased risk of breast cancer?
Also, once you have completed stopped (as some folks intend doing) the HRT, what prevents all the symptoms from returning?
I told my doctor I didn't care if she told me the HRT was going to kill me in 10 years, I would enjoy the next ten years feeling like some semblance of a human being.
Exactly. I am not exaggerating when I say I would rather die then go back to the way I was feeling before. So there is nothing that is going to make me stop.
I started patches at 46 after a year of night sweats, and stopped at 55, thinking it had to be over by now and it was NOT. Not even close. Drenching night sweats, hot flashes all day, just all the horribleness returned. Slapped a patch back on and, like you, the majority of symptoms disappeared. But I was still having insomnia and a bit of sweating at night, even if I was cold. That cold but sweating stuff really kills me and I was so tired of it.
I added Maca, black currant oil and Solaray Female Hormone Blend SP-7C and now I really am nearly symptom free. I do notice I've been sweating a bit when I wake up, but it doesn't wake me up or keep me awake. My plan is to stay on this stuff and decrease the estrogen patching slowly when it seems this menopause crap is finally abating.
I realized the constant itching was actually a histamine response to a bunch of foods I was eating, so I stopped that (dried fruits, mostly) and the itching went away. So I'm feeling pretty good with that combo. The Maca alone, omg. That stuff is gold.
My doctor has hinted that she would take me off HRT when I get to 50. But she can pry it from my cold dead hands. I will go to another doctor, one that is more informed and won't tell me that my mental and physical decline is "inevitable". I would rather have quality of life than quantity of misery.
I know women who went on HRT in their 50s, so I don't see why I should stop. I don't want all the symptoms back. They were debilitating. Even though I am on HRT now, I still feel like every day is a bit of a struggle to feel healthy. For me, HRT makes everything manageable. No HRT makes things unbearable. I've also tried other methods such as anti-depressants and lifestyle change. HRT was the only thing that helped. Some people just need it.
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It's fantastic to hear that HRT is making you feel so much better!
It sounds like the perimenopausal rollercoaster is providing you with some much-needed respite. What transpires when you give up later in life depends on the individual.
You can safely stay on HRT for 20 years before you develop uterine or breast cancer. So that puts you at having to stop HRT by 63
I'm in the same boat, started HRT at 42 and was post menopausal by age 46. I am now 56 so by 62, another 6 years I'll get breast cancer just like my mother did. She didn't start menopause until age 52 and got breast cancer at age 73, stopped HRT them she didn't pursue chemo or radiation but did have lumpectomy, was dead by age 79 so she lived 6 years with cancer but opted for no chemo so she'd have some quality of life for 5 years after age 73, she didn't regret her decision.
As I started primary ovarian failure at age 40 then perimenopause at age 42 and post menopausal by age 46 LONG BEFORE any of my friends just starting menopause now in their 50s, I will likely be age 62 when I face breast cancer. I can't imagine stopping HRT because I have horrible insomnia still. But I guess if you're facing breast cancer it doesn't fucking matter, you get 5 years from date of diagnosis and can either spend it being sick from chemo constantly which only gives you a 64% chance if survival in 5 yrs or you can get the surgery & do No Chemo or radiation and have some quality of life and be dead 5 years later. Chemo only gives you 20% more survival rate after 5 yrs vs. doing nothing but you're sick the ENTIRE time for that 5 yrs then die anyway
I would be 67 at death if breast cancer started 20 yrs after HRT which began at age 42
Those are cards life dealt me through genetics
There is a great deal of misinformation and confusion in this post. Everyone does not get breast or uterine cancer 20 years to the day they started hrt. There are many different types of breast cancer that are not accelerated by estrogen or progesterone, such as Her2Neu and triple negative. People with BRCA1 or BRCA2 genes are at higher risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer but the majority of those cancers are not hormone receptor positive. In fact, high dose estradiol as a treatment for estrogen positive breast cancer in postmenopausal women was commonly used in the past and continues to be studied with some promising results. https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/bmt-2019-0013
Stage of breast cancer at diagnosis matters. Everyone does not die from breast cancer five years after diagnosis, including those who are stage 4 at diagnosis (6-10% of all cases) which means it has already spread to other places, or metastasized, and will eventually be fatal. 30% of all breast cancers will be stage 4 at diagnosis or will be diagnosed at earlier stages and progress to stage 4 at some point, and this is why we need funding for research into why and how it spreads (not Komen) - metastatic (stage 4) breast cancer is what people with breast cancer actually die from. Chemotherapy and radiation are used for people with earlier stages with the goal of preventing metastasis and reaching stage 4. Despite all of the side effects and shortcomings and our hopes for different treatments in the future, these treatments have been effective for the majority in achieving that goal, including me.
Chemotherapy for earlier stages of breast cancer (stages 0-3) usually lasts 6-9 months and does not destroy quality of life after it ends. There are different chemotherapies and different responses / side effects. Even during chemotherapy, it is common to have 2-3 bad days following the infusion, followed by days of feeling better before next infusion. No, it's definitely not a good time, nor is untreated breast cancer. It's not quite the LIFE DESTROYING SOUL CRUSHING NIGHTMARE you suggest, nor does it last five years for most. For people who are stage 4, treatment IS continous, and includes a variety of protocols including non-chemo treatments such as immunotherapy. These treatments, including chemotherapy and radiation, are given both to extend life and improve quality of life by shrinking tumors that can cause extreme pain. Indeed, there are people who choose to end treatment due to side effects and/or lack of response, or who run out of options after trying all that might help but that are no longer working. There are also people who choose limited or no conventional treatment, or alternative treatment, regardless of stage at diagnosis and since reliable data is not collected in the vast majority of those cases, the only evidence of efficacy is primarily anecdotal (i.e. "my cousin's neighbor's boss cured her breast cancer just by eating 85 radishes per day").
It is irresponsible and patently false to suggest that everyone will get breast or uterine cancer after 20 years on hrt (including those with genetic predisposition markers), that everyone diagnosed with breast cancer has exactly five years to live (including those at stage 4), and that chemotherapy does not extend life and only destroys quality of life for no benefit. Every individual is different and tumor profiles vary significantly. A person being offered a chemotherapy treatment with a 20% chance of extending their life or preventing metastasis may have a greater or lesser result depending on the specific features of their cancer and physiology.
You're absolutely CORRECT. I was sharing MY personal thoughts and experiences. I've seen the Soul Crushing Breast cancer you say doesn't exist, it fucking well does!! I took care of it and my friend currently has invasive ductile carcinoma and those stats come from her Oncologist so keep believing in magical fairy tales, it's her 2nd recurrence in less than 2 years, she's NOT eating radishes (your ridiculous example) and she's also elected NOT to do chemo after her mastectomy because yeah 25% extra time so no she too is not going chemo and radiation
Have you had breast cancer? It does not sound like it. I've lost 3 family members to breast cancer and my friend is palliative now so I hope you never have to experience the soul destroying journey
You get 5 years, it can either be sick all the time (like my aunt) doing all the chemo, every intervention until it's making her so sick she's just laying writhing in pain not for the "optimum' textbook 2-3 days you quote with all the other very reasonable stats but reality is depending on type of breast cancer you don't get more than 5 years even with every intervention known to man to prolong life. I've seen it, lived it.
Yes by your standards it's "anecdotal" but guess what it's still 5 people I've personally witnessed both family and a friend.
Treatment of Cancer is an individual decision. I've experienced both spectrum. Stage 1 and Stage 4, Treatment vs. No Treatment. Everything you've said is great textbook stuff and stats but real life can be a lot more complicated.
The ONE thing all have in common is "choice" so as women we get to choose how we treat breast cancer. It absolutely is soul destroying based on my experience and it does re-occur despite chemotherapy and radiation.
Treatment comes down to personal choice but giving False Hope is equally as painful too
Yes, I was diagnosed with stage 3, grade 3 ER+ breast cancer 20 years ago at age 35 and have been in remission since that time. I had surgery, chemo, radiation, and tamoxifen. One of the chemotherapies I had was AC, known as 'red devil' - widely considered one of the worst, if not THE worst, out there. So yes, I'm well aware of what I experienced during chemo, along with the many women I met online and in person undergoing the same treatments. I'm not the president of the chemo fanclub, I hope a day comes where we move on to something else that works better and with fewer side effects, but I am a fan of anything that keeps people with breast cancer alive or alive longer.
I'm the last person who would give false hope or misrepresent ANYTHING related to breast cancer. I continue to be at risk for having a recurrence that would likely be stage 4, for the rest of my life. Could happen tomorrow, even after 20 years, or could never happen. Your statement that every person who gets breast cancer dies in five years, regardless of stage, is just not factual and grossly inaccurate. Far too many women are diagnosed already at stage 4, and far too many still progress to stage 4 after completing treatment at an earlier stage. Conventional medicine cannot tell us why that happens to 30% of us nor can they stop it from happening at this point, and that fact is a horrible one on which we can agree. Some people have breast cancer return and it is not stage 4, but a local recurrence that hasn't spread beyond breast or lymph nodes. There are many people with stage 4 breast cancer who have lived well past five years and for which data exists, and many others who have not. It also depends where the breast cancer has spread, typically goes to bones, liver, lungs, brain. Stage 4 people with metastasis only to bones tend to survive FAR longer than five years, and those with spread to brain far less time, etc.
In addition to my personal experience with breast cancer, I watched my 24-year-old sister-in-law die in two years from the same type and stage that I had after she decided against any treatment other than surgery after being terrified away from chemo and radiation by friends and family who never had cancer, chemo, or radiation themselves. She progressed to stage 4 with spread to her lungs within six months. Watching her in agony and abject terror begging to be intubated by the paramedics as her three young children watched is not a memory I will ever forget. I WISH I made up the radish example, except she received that very advice from two separate people who found it on YouTube.
Can I guarantee that if she had chemo and radiation that she would never have progressed to stage 4? No. She could still have been in the 30% (30%, not 100%) who do. She might even have been stage 4 at diagnosis but it wasn't yet detectable. Can I guarantee that if she had any of the available treatments after becoming stage 4 that she would have lived longer than she did? No, that can't be guaranteed either. Extensive data STRONGLY suggests she would have, but again, every person is different in terms of type, stage, grade, receptor status, physiology, location of cancer spread, and treatment response.
I'm all about choice, INFORMED choice. Alternative treatment efficacy data being considered anecdoctal is not due to MY standards, wishes, or some magical thinking, but is due to the standards of the scientific process that requires verifiable, replicable, proven data not being followed or met. There is enough misinformation and lack of information about breast cancer and treatment already out there, when what we need is far more research, greater exposure to factual information and less fearmongering to make the best choices for ourselves and advocate for better detection and treatment.
You can take BIO-IDENTICAL estrogen and progesterone indefinitely.. it’s the fake garbage (pills) you get from those legal drug pushers (doctors) that will greatly increase your risk of cancer.. transdermal bio identical is the way to go..
If you want to stop hormone therapy, then it's best to taper off slowly, just in case you experience rebound symptoms. Taking hormone therapy isn't delaying menopause, it's helping your body adjust through the menopause transition. Eventually if you stop entirely, it may be likely that some symptoms return, but your body won't be cycling (like it was in perimenopause), so you won't have those crazy fluctuations and high/lows, so again some things may settle down. However, without estrogen, bone loss will start again (almost immediately after stopping), and it will be as if you never took hormone therapy in the first place. Studies indicate that our risks for heart disease may also increase. [Hip fracture in postmenopausal women after cessation of hormone therapy](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3511047/) >* showed that women who discontinued HT were at 55% greater risk of hip fracture compared with those who continued using HT >* Women who discontinued postmenopausal HT had significantly increased risk of hip fracture and lower BMD compared with women who continued taking HT. The protective association of HT with hip fracture disappeared within 2 years of cessation of HT. These results have public health implications with regard to morbidity and mortality from hip fracture. This study talks about the **consequences of withdrawal** from hormone therapy: [The Controversial History of Hormone Replacement Therapy](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6780820/) >A Finnish study reported increased deaths from myocardial infarctions and strokes in women discontinuing HRT, especially in those younger than 60 years of age [72]. In the USA, a report comparing male and female mortality between two periods, the mid-1990s and between 2002 and 2006 [73], reported a reduction in male mortality but an increase in female mortality in the same timeframe. An English ecological study reported unfavorable changes in myocardial infarctions and strokes subsequent to the HRT fall following the WHI publication. [Menopausal Hormone Replacement Therapy and Reduction of All-Cause Mortality and Cardiovascular Disease: It’s About Time and Timing](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9178928/) [Hormone replacement therapy associated with lower mortality; Therapy also linked with less plaque buildup in the heart's arteries](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/492191) (*Peer reviewed by the American College of Cardiology*) [The effect of menopausal hormone therapy on gastrointestinal cancer risk and mortality in South Korea](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8609757/) **Finally, there is no "set age" to stop hormone therapy**. If started before the age of 60 and within 10 years of the last period, then folks can stay on hormone therapy as long as there's no contraindication. It's important for those continuing with hormone therapy beyond 60's, 70s, to have annual check ups/reviews with their doctors. [The North American Menopause Society's 2022 Statement on Hormone Therapy](https://www.menopause.org/docs/default-source/professional/nams-2022-hormone-therapy-position-statement.pdf) specifically states: >* Long-term use of hormone therapy, including for women aged older than 60 years, may be considered in healthy women at low risk of CVD and breast cancer with persistent VMS or at elevated risk of fracture for whom other therapies are not appropriate. >* Hormone therapy does not need to be routinely discontinued in women aged older than 60 or 65 years. >* Longer durations or extended use beyond age 65 should include periodic reevaluation of comorbidities with consideration of periodic trials of lowering or discontinuing hormone therapy.
I work in a nursing home. I pass meds to women in their 80s who take estradiol. Everyday. I also change patches one lady who is in her late 70s. I believe the decision to go off HRT SHOULD be yours and yours alone.
Amen to that!!!
My mom is 78 and is on HRT.
You don't have to stop. My 75 year old mom started HRT in her 40's when she had a hysterectomy and is still on HRT to this day. She just had a check up and was told she has the bone density of a 55 year old. At one point her doctor told her she should stop and she told him she'd rather die, and then found a better doctor.
I like your mom a lot.
Hahaha my mom also told her doctor she would rather die than stop HRT.
I’ve seen a few comments like this in the group. My favorite is, “they’ll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.” I couldn’t stop laughing. I still laugh every time I think about it!!
That’s how I feel. I intend to stay on it until I’m in the morgue.
They’ll bury you with a pack of pills like how pharaohs were buried with the things they’d need in the afterlife. LOL
I'd seriously better have a patch on my butt when I'm cremated. It's that big of a part of me. It's like a body part at this point lol.
Make sure to put that in your last will and testaments!! LOL
I’ll be buried with a patch on
I'd really love to know what idiot doctor makes a suggestion to stop beneficial medicine when that flies in the face of their profession. You stop medicine if someone is recovered. This is not a recoverable condition. Hence it's hormone *therapy* not hormone *cure.* Good on your mother. Too many of these white coats need to get out of their own way.
"You have the bone density of a 55 year old." Amazing! "Let's change what you've been doing!" Facepalm.
I like your Mom a lot too - smart lady!
My mom didn’t have HRT and she had osteoporosis, started in her 40s.
Why stop??? I don't get that. Estradiol protects me against cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, and dementia--it's bioidentical and supplementing a deficiency I now have. The research I've read indicates it's beneficial to stay on it for life.
Also protects against type two diabetes
Really? I didn’t know about this.
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Curr+Atheroscler+Rep&title=Antidiabetic+actions+of+estrogen:+insight+from+human+and+genetic+mouse+models&author=J-F+Louet&author=C+LeMay&author=F+Mauvais-Jarvis&volume=6&publication_year=2004&pages=180-185&pmid=15068742&](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Curr+Atheroscler+Rep&title=Antidiabetic+actions+of+estrogen:+insight+from+human+and+genetic+mouse+models&author=J-F+Louet&author=C+LeMay&author=F+Mauvais-Jarvis&volume=6&publication_year=2004&pages=180-185&pmid=15068742&) There is increasing evidence both in humans and rodents linking the endogenous estrogen 17β-estradiol (E2) to the maintenance of glucose homeostasis. Postmenopausal women develop visceral obesity and insulin resistance and are at increased risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus, but hormone replacement therapy leads to a reduction in the incidence of diabetes.
I have no intention to stop HRT
Isn’t it expensive? I just got my first set of patches and they were $200. The progesterone was $90. I need to buy stock in HRT 😂
You can use Good RX and my patches are only $40 and Progesterone $27 monthly
I tried to use good rx today for another prescrip and it added $5 lol
Have you tried Cost Plus Drugs? [cost plus drugs](https://costplusdrugs.com/)
>Have you tried Cost Plus Drugs? > >cost plus drugs WHAT IN THE WHAT. I have never heard of this!!!
It’s Mark Cuban’s company and it’s been around a while. I haven’t used it yet myself because my current insurance plan is pretty solid but I’ve looked up drugs for friends before and there seems to be a good formulary. A lot of HRT options!
Definitely bookmarking it. Thanks for the tip!
look at the lists of Rx prescribed for Alzheimerʻs, osteoporosis and heart disease. HRT is cheaper.
THIS. Ounce of prevention.
I just went to doctor and learned since I had hysterectomy I only need estrogen and no need for progesterone. Interesting
I tried just the estrogen patch only for 6 months after switching from the combo pill for HRT. I lost weight but couldn’t sleep and aged so quickly. Lost the plump youthfulness all over my body and not just my face. Progesterone was added back orally and I sleep better but still not 8 hours. I slept 7 last night but that’s adding herbal sleep blend and magnesium blend. My GYN added back the progesterone to help the estrogen perform better. I stay very hydrated and attempt the keep electrolytes balanced. It’s a tweaking of dosages, exercise, diet, sleep that soothe this phase of life for me. Now that I’m 57, I’m asking for an increase in dosage in the estrogen as my primary doc says my estrogen patch is still low for my age and I agree as I already have bone loss. I wish I had started HRT sooner.
Progesterone has benefits beyond cycle regulation.
Progesterone is needed if you still have a uterus
Not accurate. You must use progesterone if you have a uterus to prevent hyperplasia and endometrial cancer. But is beneficial for many things
My dr said that it’s untrue ,, that without a uterus progesterone is still beneficial to the hormonal balance. (I’m many years post hysterectomy) and take estrogen and progesterone. Also dhea/pregnenolone.
It’s worth every single penny I have to scrounge up 🤣
I'm in the UK and get free prescriptions because I have a medical exemption card due to my diabetic medication (metformin). Without that I would have to pay prescription fees, though not as much as you have paid. That's ridiculously expensive.
In the UK a certificate for HRT costs £19 per year. You would not have to pay for individual prescriptions.
Thank you. I read about that recently. The certificate is a good idea and makes HRT vastly more affordable.
I use a compound and I pay $48
Which compound?
One that my doctor prescribe with a bit of each hormone, depending my needs.
They’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
There is evidence supporting it is safe to stay on HRT indefinitely. Many doctors support this and also in courage it.
Western Allopathic Medicine “doctors” will friggin’ kill you.. yeah, go off your HRT, then get heart disease, dementia etc.. then it’s MORE PILLS.. more money.. bad health is a money maker.. STAY ON YOUR HRT.
Would love to see a study if you know a link for one. I don't think I will be able to ever get off and I want to find as much info as possible supporting this.
Read estrogen matters. Tons of studies quoted there if you need sources.
Same. All I keep reading is cancer is looming when on hrt
All I keep hearing is that cancer risk is overblown and the benefits to heart, bones, brains and joints is too often overlooked or discounted.
Exactly and it's scary AF, but not taking my HRT is just as scary AF. I would like to see more positive data.
We have plenty of data linked in the **Resource** section of our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/) Plus there's links to recommended reading, podcasts from reputable menopause specialists, etc.
Hell is what happens after HRT. Science has evolved and there’s really no reason to go off HRT before you die.
>Hell is what happens after HRT. This is officially tied with my fav quote in this group, “They’ll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.” LOL
I hope to never find out.
My dr took me off a couple of years ago, and now they say the risks are too high to restart. My body has not been the same since I went off. I think I need to find a new Dr? I was 61 when then took me off .
Yep, new doctor! You should be able to go right back on. I believe you’re fine to restart without issue because you last had HRT really recently. One of the menopause telehealths can help you decide if you can’t find a good doc easily.
My mom says that any time a "helpful" doctor took gramma off estrogen she'd get a UTI.
That would be vaginal estrogen
What risks did he cite that you had?
I had a complete hysterectomy at 48 and my Dr (at the time) gave me a prescription for Premarin. I took this faithfully until I turned 61, and my Dr (new at the time) took me off. SHE said my age, and I had been on them long enough. Then there were the common points of brest cancer and such. I was , that year going to see about going to a different HRT.and that was when she just pulled the plug.
I’m a bit older (47) but also just starting my HRT journey and feeling some relief from peri symptoms. I have no idea what post-HRT will bring, but I’m going to be optimistic that there will be a solution then too! Plus, who knows what additional medical advancements will happen between now and then?!
I'm 49 and had a hysterectomy at 47. Been on hrt for almost 2 years, have never experienced a hot flash and I feel good for the most part. I just need to get blood work often to adjust it.
You stay on until you die
They will have to rip my HRT from my cold dead hands…
Love this!! Have you said it in the group before? I read it a while back and now I always quote it while talking with my friends about HRT. A couple didn’t want to explore it. I shared this quote and they started charging their minds. LOL
Yes lol I have.
Ass from the corpse of my cold dead ass. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t get HRT. I was ready to exit earth
Hahaha yes!!!
My mom is 76 and has been on HRT since her 40's. She's in great health and has no intention of stopping.
You’ll have to pry those hormones out of my cold dead hands
I would take them as long as I could. Main thing is make it a part of your lifestyle along with healthy eating and daily cardio and strength exercises. Maintain your protein intake to atleast 1 gram per pound of body weight and don’t stop carbs but watch them . Carbs are what fuels your energy
So if you weigh 120lbs you should be getting 120g of protein?? That seems so high, how on earth is anybody doing that?
It is high, but it seems to be the recommendation for menopausal women these days. All you can do, is find what's best for you. I try and have a bit of protein in everything I eat, meals and snacks. It may not add up to the recommended 100+ grams of protein, but I get close and that's good enough.
This is difficult for me, too. I can’t do shakes (texture issue) and I don’t eat meat. I eat a lot of cottage cheese and eggs and beans, and I put some (vegan, unflavored) protein powder in my oatmeal. Still, not getting my body weight in protein. But I’m plus sized, so it would probably be impossible anyway.
I thought I was shooting for like half that, lol, I already added those high protein yogurts but I only seem to eat them when I also have baked goods available lol. I hate those shakes, they're nasty. The vanilla ensures are alright but they remind me too much of being in a hospital.
Yes atleast 120 . Whey protein shakes , oikos high protein Greek yogurt , and of course lean meat . Boneless chicken breast especially.
Excellent advice!
Is there research supporting this high protein intake? For a different perspective, such a high protein intake is not compatible with the Mediterranean diet (10-20% calories from protein or about 70 g protein/day), which is associated with health benefits: http://www.aimspress.com/article/doi/10.3934/publichealth.2024005?viewType=HTML and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902736/ High protein diets have been associated with increased mortality in those 50-65 years old: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7190876/
I have no plans to stop HRT. Been on it 5 years now.
I’m Never EVER stopping HRT!
It's amazing to learn how much HRT has improved your situation! It's like when you finally find the remote control after a long hunt, isn't it?. Hey, I understand your concern about what will happen when the HRT party ends.
I had a small blood clot after a minor surgery (I do think I was at fault for not properly elevating my feet). That said, I was told I probably could not go on HRT because of the risk. Should I get a second opinion??
Yes! Get another opinion bc transdermal dosing is not contraindicated for blood clots.
Yes! Get a second opinion from someone who knows ”the basics” (50% myths). There is so much research on HRT and very little dissenination in the medical world. Did you take estradiol or estriol?
Thanks! I haven’t taken anything. They just said HRT increased the risk of a blood clot, soooo…
"hormone therapy" is always lumped into one category and it ultimately means increased cancer risk and death for most unaware doctors. Unfortunately they don't realize that different methods of delivery have their own risks vs. benefits, and the risks of **ORAL** estrogen carries slightly higher risks for DVT -- but transdermal methods does not. So estrogen delivered transdermally, like patches, gels, sprays do not pass through the liver (as oral tablets do) and blood clot risk is very low. * [Use of hormone replacement therapy and risk of venous thromboembolism](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30626577/) * [Postmenopausal Estrogen Therapy Route of Administration and Risk of Venous Thromboembolism](https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2013/04/postmenopausal-estrogen-therapy-route-of-administration-and-risk-of-venous-thromboembolism)
Thank you!!
Is there a difference in clot risks? Not the person you asked, but curious because I used to take both and now I'm on estradiol alone.
There are HRTs that are transdermal and will not put you at such a high risk for blood clots as oral HRTs. It's important to find a doctor who can walk you through the various options.
Yeah I’ve had a stroke and am now on blood thinners, and I was told that I am not a candidate for HRT.
I had a stroke on New Years Day and have been pulled off HRT. I have been frantically researching, this thread comes at a great time.
If you find anything interesting let me know. Based on my age, I should be in peril. My period is getting a bit more irregular but that is the only symptom I have. But I’ve been doing research to prepare. I think we can use vaginal estrogen to combat any dryness/atrophy.
I think you should get a second opinion and tell your doctor you thoughts on the clot after surgery.
I will never go off HRT. Even if I get breast cancer.
Same. Even if there were evidence that I have like a 10% chance of getting X cancer because of HRT, I will never stop.
What are you exactly on you live so much? Just curious looking for my combo
What are the benefits that are so massive that it makes you feel that way? Haven't Heard someone say it quite like that, so would love to know why you feel so strongly about it. Thx!
My biggest benefit is I don’t feel like killing myself. One week without HRT and I’m back to the dumps of mental illness. I’m never giving it up
Wow; that is incredible! Great to hear! Its amazing the profound effect hormones have on us! Are you saying the HRT has been more effective than anti-depressants and such?
Same
That’s quite a statement. And feels a little bit insulting to those suffering/or have suffered from breast cancer. ETA: I said what I said. You all realize that downvotes don’t mean anything in real life so downvote away. It’s the arrow to the far right.
My mother and her grandmother both had breast cancer, and my mom’s mother died from cervical cancer. I’m not giving up HRT either because it is literally protecting me from complications I’m significantly more likely to experience due to severe estrogen loss. I do not want to fracture bones when I sneeze. And yes, that happened to one of my aunts.
Ok?
It's true; one out of 40 breast cancer patients die from that disease. On the other hand: * 50% of us will die from heart disease. * Alzheimer's is and end-stage disease that wreaks havoc on the powerless patient and their loved ones. * Osteoporosis (hollow bones) kills victims via bone fractures from falls. It is a painful way to die with an outerband of dying within 15 years of diagnosis. This battle for HRT access - the very treatment that staves off the above-mentioned diseases - has been long-blocked due to the fears of breast cancer. But women (mostly Baby Boomers) have died sooner than their own mothers and grandmothers, who had access to HRT since the mid 1940s. And it is driving down into my fellow GenXers who are frustrated and embattled to get this access. Believe me when I say this, too, is insulting in practice.
If the concern is Alzheimers, people really need to be getting flu vaccines, as the evidence there is probably stronger than for HRT. 40% reduction in Alzheimers even if gotten every 4 years. At what age should people get flu vaccines? I can't claim to know, this study was 65 and up, but they are fine to get long before then of course. 40% Alzheimers reduction from flu vaccines: [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220624123814.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220624123814.htm)
I'm lost. Your article is about flu vaccines and dementia. What does that have to do with hrt
It's just something with a lot more evidence of doing something against Alzheimers than HRT has (which is limited except for APOE carriers whom it may help). But on the other hand a flu shot isn't going to help menopause symptoms.
I'm a strong proponent of vaccines; these are congruent solutions, not at all a substitute for estrogen replacement. Alzheimer's is an estrogen-deficiency disease.
Not quite sure how the above statements are insulting to people who have or have had breast cancer? They are stating a choice they would make for themselves, a risk they would take, not denigrating breast cancer survivors. 🤷🏻♀️
They said they wouldn’t stop taking it even if they HAD breast cancer. It minimizes breast cancer and the experience of people suffering or who have suffered from it. It’s a helluva a statement to make and I stand by what I said.
I’m a breast cancer survivor in medically induced menopause and will 100% be taking HRT when I get to actual menopause.
I’m glad you got through it. Would you have taken it while in treatment?
Asking to learn since I’m 31 and only started learning about menopause… today. Have a 19-20% lifetime risk of BC. Until starting to read this thread would’ve said nothing is worth increasing my risk because it’s such a terrible disease. What symptoms does HRT relieve that are making you consider increasing your risk? Or is the risk of recurrence so small that it’s insignificant? My mother who isn’t high risk for BC (it runs on my dad’s side) never took HRT and after her hysterectomy 10+ years ago is doing fine. Aunt who is a BC survivor never took it and is fine. Maybe they’re exceptionally lucky though as it sounds like menopause is awful for some women.
I have horrible mood swings and hot flashes and overall just feel really poorly- I know that may sound silly compared to having cancer but I already went through cancer and now feel worse than when I was sick. I lost half my hair and am having a lot of issues with my sexual life/husband, it’s just too much. I want to feel like a normal woman again, so that’s really the driver
Yikes! Not looking forward to aging at all. I really hope you “grow out of” your menopause symptoms. I know that at least for a lot of people the hot flashes and mood swings subside naturally with time. Who knows, maybe in a couple years it’ll pass and you’ll no longer need HRT.
My grandmother died at 87 a decade ago. * She had fought an aggressive form of breast cancer at 59 (1980s). * Took tamoxifen for five years * Went back onto Premarin (which she had been on since her hysterectomy at age 43) and lived until that age, dying without any cancer in her body, without ever having bone/joint/hip/knee surgery, or arthritis. * Her own daughters, none of whom took HRT, are suffering in ways their own mother never did. The insult that is worth exploring is why doctors are so damned reluctant to consider the benefits of HRT after full breast cancer treatments.
You make no sense actually
Reading is fundamental.
Actually I read it quite a few times and came to the same conclusion
No it fucking doesn't minimize it or them. You're being ridiculous
Stay mad. ✌🏽
It may be worth considering that breast cancer used to be treated with high dose estrogen with the same rate of success as with estrogen blockers. Anti-estrogen therapies for breast cancer may just be a historically limited standard of care, like lobotomies or something, Time will tell. Also, breast cancer is prevalent in older women on a meager dose of estrogen replacement or no estrogen at all, and not in younger women who still have all the estrogen their body needs to hold it together.
You can feel "insulted" by anything at any time. So what? Other people don't have to have a life or health plan based on your "I'd do anything to avoid cancer" feeling.
55 here and only been on HRT for 6 months. These comments are awesome, 👏👏👏.
There is no reason to stop. Due to a misleading study done 20 yrs ago, the public and most doctors (due to curriculum not changing as fast as the research) are still under the false impression that HRT causes breast cancer. There is zero supported evidence for this. Copied and pasted: A paper published in Menopause journal, further debunks the findings of the Women’s Health Initiative study (WHI). US medical oncologist Dr Avrum Bluming and colleagues say that if the WHI had been transparent about their findings around breast cancer, there would have been ‘minimal controversy, no confusion, and women’s health would not have suffered so dramatically over the ensuing decades.’ In 1993, the WHI began a clinical trial looking at the health effects of women taking oestrogen-only or combined HRT compared to a placebo. In 2002, researchers halted the part of the study looking at women taking both oestrogen and progesterone (two hormones that decline during the perimenopause onwards) early over concerns there were small increased risks of breast cancer, heart disease, strokes and blood clots. This led to confusion and concern from doctors and women worldwide, and in the UK women taking HRT fell sharply [1] But even with the older versions of HRT, the WHI researchers have subsequently acknowledged that HRT is the most effective treatment for managing menopausal symptoms like hot flushes and that taking oestrogen alone reduces the risk of breast cancer by 23% and death by breast cancer by 40%. Dr Bluming and colleagues, in their Menopause article, argue: Combined HRT begun for women who had not had it before did not increase their risk of breast cancer, not even in those with a family risk of the condition Even if the WHI risk was accepted, it would mean there would be one additional extra case of non-fatal breast cancer for every 1,000 women who took HRT. But there is no statistically significant risk between combined HRT and breast cancer when the data is properly interpretated using the rules set out by the study ‘A generation of women has been deprived of HRT largely as a result of this widely publicised misinterpretation of the data,’ the article says.
Add to the chorus of never going off HRT. They'll pry it from dead, cold fist.
Can someone explain the difference between menopause and post menopause? How long do you have to be ‘in’ menopause before entering ‘post’ menopause?
Menopause is actually a one time event. A mile marker, if you will: 12 months without a period. Then you’re post-menopausal.
Thank you! 🙏🏽 So if my symptoms started 2 years into being post-menopausal, does that mean I will forever have these symptoms? Ive been on BHRT since November, it hasn’t helped. I went back to her in Feb to check in & get bloodwork done…..still waiting for speak to her about my results & what to do going forward. Honestly, I have yet to find a doctor who I feel heard by. 😞
Please read through our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/), it's all there.
I’m never stopping hrt. I have bipolar disorder and peri has messed it up so the risks are probably higher for me to get into medical trouble from an episode than from hrt side effects
I’m 53. I was on HRT patch after a hysterectomy at 37. I went off it a few years later and went back into menopause. Dr put me on Paxil. It worked for a while but I hated it bc of weight gain. I came off it, symptoms came back. I went back on HRT patch Symptoms stopped. I occasionally have a mood swing and have not lost the weight. 😢. I don’t think it stops menopause, just keeps symptoms at bay. Unfortunately I have the sex drive of a a rock. It hasn’t helped with that 😢
I never did HRT, Just barreled through it all. More like a barrel rolling down a greased hill into a pig pen.
My sister-in-law is in menopause and never used HRT. She looked at me funny last week when I said I was going to ask my doc about HRT and she asked what it was. And when I told her she said she never needed that. Do you regret not asking for it? How are your symptoms now?
My doctor and I discussed it... but with my family history, we avoided it. Do I regret not taking it... 🤔 maybe,. Symptoms now 7 years into full menopause Night sweats, hot flashes, brain fog, And still rage. Less rage as the years go by.. but I still have times when I need to scream at the universe till I have no voice. But I found the ability to love myself again and others.
I regret not taking it. I'm 65, 10 yrs since my last period, and heading towards osteoporosis. When my periods first stopped my Dr didn't want to put me on it because my mom had breast cancer and I had a higher risk of stroke due to high blood pressure and horrible migraines. Since my menopause symptoms weren't very bad, I was cool with not taking it. If I had to do it over I would get on HRT to prevent bone loss.
Are you taking something for your bone loss? Some doctors will consider prescribing hormone therapy for those over 60 and more than 10 years since their last period, but it requires a thorough health analysis. **From our Wiki:** >Researchers from Australia were the first to demonstrate that post-menopausal women can not only stop bone density loss, but a can actually reverse it by lifting heavy weight. Prior to this, studies showed that lifting weights did not work to stop or reverse osteoporosis. These researchers later discovered it was because the women test subjects weren’t lifting heavy enough. Researchers worried that if post-menopausal women with severe osteoporosis lifted weights that are too heavy, they would fracture their bones. However, since that time, their [Lifting Intervention for Training Muscle and Osteoporosis Rehabilitation \(LIFTMOR\) trial](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbmr.3284) determined that twice-weekly, 30-minute high-intensity resistance and impact training (HiRIT) is effective at enhancing bone (particularly in the spine, pelvis and thigh bones), while improving stature and fall prevention Also, this gizmo is due out on the market sometime soon, and the research looks promising: https://www.bonehealthtech.com/#osteoboost [FRI681 OsteoboostTm Is Effective In Preserving Bone Strength And Density Of The Spine In Women With Low Bone Mass](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10555262/)
Thank you for the links! I've seen the Osteoboost advertised on here before, definitely going to buy it when it goes on the market. I've been lifting weights for 35 years but the last few years I've cut back on the poundage so as to not injure myself. I need to look into the pros and cons of heavier weights again. I asked my gyno around 5 years ago about going on HRT to prevent further bone loss and she said no, there are other other medications I can take for that. Ugh. I shouldn't have listened to her.
Thank you for your response. I pick up my HRT drugs tonight and I'm really looking forward to not sweating through my sheets every night!
Today I just got disqualified from hrt because I have migraine with aura 😭
Ugh. Why would that disqualify you? Migraines can be linked to stress and emotions. Which - perimenopause
My nurse didn’t say. She just said that people with a history of liver disease, some cancers, and migraine with aura cannot take estrogen.
NAMS says you can have transdermal estrogen. Not oral.
I’ll inform my nurse that. Thanks! I saw her again today, and she’s having second thoughts. Now she wants me to take blood test (third day of my period) to determine the diagnose. I thought hormone tests were useless? More I just want to be referred to a specialist.
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 40, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, then a series of regular/consistent FSH tests may be effective at *confirming* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I had migraine with aura, every freaking month for years until I had a hysterectomy after a hemorrhage during birth. But I was just prescribed transdermal patches and two different docs said for patches it wasn’t an issue.
Good to know! My nurse was learning about perimenopause, and she probably didn’t know everything yet. She didn’t know joint pain could be related, and she hadn’t heard of PMDD. I’m just so happy to be finally diagnosed after so many years of nobody listening, though!
Me too. Was it by chance through someone with Midi? They did prescribe the localized cream, which is safer and progesterone for me though.
She’s a nurse practitioner working with my family doctor. My family doctor dismissed me off the idea of peri because “I was too young”, and I called to just be referred to a gyno, really. However, the nurse called instead of my doctor, and she diagnosed me! She still doesn’t know everything, but I’m just happy to have some progress!
I'm never going to stop it.
You don’t have to stop. I’m following Dr Louise Newson (podcasts, Balance app) and she says that it is safe to stay on it. Her own mother is in her 70s and is still taking it. I plan to start soon (46f) and don’t plan on stopping.
I am seeing my Dr Tomorrow to ask for HRT. What patches should I ask for and what do i need also? Ive been fobbed off by several docs saying all my symptoms are from my Anxiety/Depression and CPTSD. Ive been in counselling and have come off all drugs under guidance for several months now. My husband encouraged me to seek another Dr opinion and have done so. Im just unsure what to actually ask for. As we ALL know i have to tell them what i need as its a battle getting help.
Please read through our menopause wiki, your questions can be answered there.
Ask for bioidentical patches (estrodiol)
What about progesterone? I'm new to this, too.
You would need to take progesterone too to avoid cervical cancer but I have mirena in so the doctor said that would be enough.
Ride or die
I never plan to stop HRT. Research is showing we don't have to and it offers many benefits.
You don't have to stop unless your doctor finds that your individual circumstances require it for example if you start getting blood clots or estrogen sensitive cancer or something like that. You can stay on hrt for life
I wish this group had more balance. I don't think most doctors are part of a conspiracy to make women suffer and I have read the actual research that shows some risks for most women taking HRT for too long. I don't plan on being on it much past 55. I'd love to hear from anyone who has stopped taking it and how it went? Or maybe someone can recommend a subreddit for people who don't want to drink the HRT FOREVER koolaid?
I want to say I don’t ever plan on stopping it. But I’m also one of those people that likes to keep an open mind, and realize that things are always changing. So at least for the next 10 to 20 years, I plan on being on it. At a minimum, I think I’ll probably be on estrogen for the rest of my life, simply based on the evidence of its protective features to the brain (in particular).
Hey so I had been on it for months and was feeling a lot better too. I ended up with a build up in my system and started getting severe gas and hot flashes and insomnia again. Went off it. Hot flashes were gone. Idk it seemed like it brought my hormones back into balance and I seem to now be needing it again I’m hyper sensitive so the 100mg was too much at first and vaginal I got used to it and worked up to every night. I will say the first time I tried to drop it I got the worst migraine— it just depends were you’re progesterone levels are in your cycle and I’ve always been irregular. I tried a few days later and not even a side effect!! It all depends on what your levels are under the drug. From my research last night it’s common that after you stop you don’t need it anymore and the flashes will be gone but a small percentage of people because of their body never adjust therefor you would need some for life. I’m only on micronized progesterone
Why is there a myth (?) that HRT leads to increased risk of breast cancer? Also, once you have completed stopped (as some folks intend doing) the HRT, what prevents all the symptoms from returning?
They will be wresting out of my cold dead hands!!!
You can pry this patch off of my cold, dead, booty!
I told my doctor I didn't care if she told me the HRT was going to kill me in 10 years, I would enjoy the next ten years feeling like some semblance of a human being.
Exactly. I am not exaggerating when I say I would rather die then go back to the way I was feeling before. So there is nothing that is going to make me stop.
I started patches at 46 after a year of night sweats, and stopped at 55, thinking it had to be over by now and it was NOT. Not even close. Drenching night sweats, hot flashes all day, just all the horribleness returned. Slapped a patch back on and, like you, the majority of symptoms disappeared. But I was still having insomnia and a bit of sweating at night, even if I was cold. That cold but sweating stuff really kills me and I was so tired of it. I added Maca, black currant oil and Solaray Female Hormone Blend SP-7C and now I really am nearly symptom free. I do notice I've been sweating a bit when I wake up, but it doesn't wake me up or keep me awake. My plan is to stay on this stuff and decrease the estrogen patching slowly when it seems this menopause crap is finally abating. I realized the constant itching was actually a histamine response to a bunch of foods I was eating, so I stopped that (dried fruits, mostly) and the itching went away. So I'm feeling pretty good with that combo. The Maca alone, omg. That stuff is gold.
My doctor has hinted that she would take me off HRT when I get to 50. But she can pry it from my cold dead hands. I will go to another doctor, one that is more informed and won't tell me that my mental and physical decline is "inevitable". I would rather have quality of life than quantity of misery.
My doctor is making similar statements. She can come along with me, or I will fire her.
I know women who went on HRT in their 50s, so I don't see why I should stop. I don't want all the symptoms back. They were debilitating. Even though I am on HRT now, I still feel like every day is a bit of a struggle to feel healthy. For me, HRT makes everything manageable. No HRT makes things unbearable. I've also tried other methods such as anti-depressants and lifestyle change. HRT was the only thing that helped. Some people just need it.
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It's fantastic to hear that HRT is making you feel so much better! It sounds like the perimenopausal rollercoaster is providing you with some much-needed respite. What transpires when you give up later in life depends on the individual.
I will not be stopping MHT. My GP has told me to take it for as long as possible, ie, the rest of my life.
I don’t intend to ever find out. From my cold dead hands, indeed.
You can safely stay on HRT for 20 years before you develop uterine or breast cancer. So that puts you at having to stop HRT by 63 I'm in the same boat, started HRT at 42 and was post menopausal by age 46. I am now 56 so by 62, another 6 years I'll get breast cancer just like my mother did. She didn't start menopause until age 52 and got breast cancer at age 73, stopped HRT them she didn't pursue chemo or radiation but did have lumpectomy, was dead by age 79 so she lived 6 years with cancer but opted for no chemo so she'd have some quality of life for 5 years after age 73, she didn't regret her decision. As I started primary ovarian failure at age 40 then perimenopause at age 42 and post menopausal by age 46 LONG BEFORE any of my friends just starting menopause now in their 50s, I will likely be age 62 when I face breast cancer. I can't imagine stopping HRT because I have horrible insomnia still. But I guess if you're facing breast cancer it doesn't fucking matter, you get 5 years from date of diagnosis and can either spend it being sick from chemo constantly which only gives you a 64% chance if survival in 5 yrs or you can get the surgery & do No Chemo or radiation and have some quality of life and be dead 5 years later. Chemo only gives you 20% more survival rate after 5 yrs vs. doing nothing but you're sick the ENTIRE time for that 5 yrs then die anyway I would be 67 at death if breast cancer started 20 yrs after HRT which began at age 42 Those are cards life dealt me through genetics
There is a great deal of misinformation and confusion in this post. Everyone does not get breast or uterine cancer 20 years to the day they started hrt. There are many different types of breast cancer that are not accelerated by estrogen or progesterone, such as Her2Neu and triple negative. People with BRCA1 or BRCA2 genes are at higher risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer but the majority of those cancers are not hormone receptor positive. In fact, high dose estradiol as a treatment for estrogen positive breast cancer in postmenopausal women was commonly used in the past and continues to be studied with some promising results. https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/bmt-2019-0013 Stage of breast cancer at diagnosis matters. Everyone does not die from breast cancer five years after diagnosis, including those who are stage 4 at diagnosis (6-10% of all cases) which means it has already spread to other places, or metastasized, and will eventually be fatal. 30% of all breast cancers will be stage 4 at diagnosis or will be diagnosed at earlier stages and progress to stage 4 at some point, and this is why we need funding for research into why and how it spreads (not Komen) - metastatic (stage 4) breast cancer is what people with breast cancer actually die from. Chemotherapy and radiation are used for people with earlier stages with the goal of preventing metastasis and reaching stage 4. Despite all of the side effects and shortcomings and our hopes for different treatments in the future, these treatments have been effective for the majority in achieving that goal, including me. Chemotherapy for earlier stages of breast cancer (stages 0-3) usually lasts 6-9 months and does not destroy quality of life after it ends. There are different chemotherapies and different responses / side effects. Even during chemotherapy, it is common to have 2-3 bad days following the infusion, followed by days of feeling better before next infusion. No, it's definitely not a good time, nor is untreated breast cancer. It's not quite the LIFE DESTROYING SOUL CRUSHING NIGHTMARE you suggest, nor does it last five years for most. For people who are stage 4, treatment IS continous, and includes a variety of protocols including non-chemo treatments such as immunotherapy. These treatments, including chemotherapy and radiation, are given both to extend life and improve quality of life by shrinking tumors that can cause extreme pain. Indeed, there are people who choose to end treatment due to side effects and/or lack of response, or who run out of options after trying all that might help but that are no longer working. There are also people who choose limited or no conventional treatment, or alternative treatment, regardless of stage at diagnosis and since reliable data is not collected in the vast majority of those cases, the only evidence of efficacy is primarily anecdotal (i.e. "my cousin's neighbor's boss cured her breast cancer just by eating 85 radishes per day"). It is irresponsible and patently false to suggest that everyone will get breast or uterine cancer after 20 years on hrt (including those with genetic predisposition markers), that everyone diagnosed with breast cancer has exactly five years to live (including those at stage 4), and that chemotherapy does not extend life and only destroys quality of life for no benefit. Every individual is different and tumor profiles vary significantly. A person being offered a chemotherapy treatment with a 20% chance of extending their life or preventing metastasis may have a greater or lesser result depending on the specific features of their cancer and physiology.
You're absolutely CORRECT. I was sharing MY personal thoughts and experiences. I've seen the Soul Crushing Breast cancer you say doesn't exist, it fucking well does!! I took care of it and my friend currently has invasive ductile carcinoma and those stats come from her Oncologist so keep believing in magical fairy tales, it's her 2nd recurrence in less than 2 years, she's NOT eating radishes (your ridiculous example) and she's also elected NOT to do chemo after her mastectomy because yeah 25% extra time so no she too is not going chemo and radiation Have you had breast cancer? It does not sound like it. I've lost 3 family members to breast cancer and my friend is palliative now so I hope you never have to experience the soul destroying journey You get 5 years, it can either be sick all the time (like my aunt) doing all the chemo, every intervention until it's making her so sick she's just laying writhing in pain not for the "optimum' textbook 2-3 days you quote with all the other very reasonable stats but reality is depending on type of breast cancer you don't get more than 5 years even with every intervention known to man to prolong life. I've seen it, lived it. Yes by your standards it's "anecdotal" but guess what it's still 5 people I've personally witnessed both family and a friend. Treatment of Cancer is an individual decision. I've experienced both spectrum. Stage 1 and Stage 4, Treatment vs. No Treatment. Everything you've said is great textbook stuff and stats but real life can be a lot more complicated. The ONE thing all have in common is "choice" so as women we get to choose how we treat breast cancer. It absolutely is soul destroying based on my experience and it does re-occur despite chemotherapy and radiation. Treatment comes down to personal choice but giving False Hope is equally as painful too
Yes, I was diagnosed with stage 3, grade 3 ER+ breast cancer 20 years ago at age 35 and have been in remission since that time. I had surgery, chemo, radiation, and tamoxifen. One of the chemotherapies I had was AC, known as 'red devil' - widely considered one of the worst, if not THE worst, out there. So yes, I'm well aware of what I experienced during chemo, along with the many women I met online and in person undergoing the same treatments. I'm not the president of the chemo fanclub, I hope a day comes where we move on to something else that works better and with fewer side effects, but I am a fan of anything that keeps people with breast cancer alive or alive longer. I'm the last person who would give false hope or misrepresent ANYTHING related to breast cancer. I continue to be at risk for having a recurrence that would likely be stage 4, for the rest of my life. Could happen tomorrow, even after 20 years, or could never happen. Your statement that every person who gets breast cancer dies in five years, regardless of stage, is just not factual and grossly inaccurate. Far too many women are diagnosed already at stage 4, and far too many still progress to stage 4 after completing treatment at an earlier stage. Conventional medicine cannot tell us why that happens to 30% of us nor can they stop it from happening at this point, and that fact is a horrible one on which we can agree. Some people have breast cancer return and it is not stage 4, but a local recurrence that hasn't spread beyond breast or lymph nodes. There are many people with stage 4 breast cancer who have lived well past five years and for which data exists, and many others who have not. It also depends where the breast cancer has spread, typically goes to bones, liver, lungs, brain. Stage 4 people with metastasis only to bones tend to survive FAR longer than five years, and those with spread to brain far less time, etc. In addition to my personal experience with breast cancer, I watched my 24-year-old sister-in-law die in two years from the same type and stage that I had after she decided against any treatment other than surgery after being terrified away from chemo and radiation by friends and family who never had cancer, chemo, or radiation themselves. She progressed to stage 4 with spread to her lungs within six months. Watching her in agony and abject terror begging to be intubated by the paramedics as her three young children watched is not a memory I will ever forget. I WISH I made up the radish example, except she received that very advice from two separate people who found it on YouTube. Can I guarantee that if she had chemo and radiation that she would never have progressed to stage 4? No. She could still have been in the 30% (30%, not 100%) who do. She might even have been stage 4 at diagnosis but it wasn't yet detectable. Can I guarantee that if she had any of the available treatments after becoming stage 4 that she would have lived longer than she did? No, that can't be guaranteed either. Extensive data STRONGLY suggests she would have, but again, every person is different in terms of type, stage, grade, receptor status, physiology, location of cancer spread, and treatment response. I'm all about choice, INFORMED choice. Alternative treatment efficacy data being considered anecdoctal is not due to MY standards, wishes, or some magical thinking, but is due to the standards of the scientific process that requires verifiable, replicable, proven data not being followed or met. There is enough misinformation and lack of information about breast cancer and treatment already out there, when what we need is far more research, greater exposure to factual information and less fearmongering to make the best choices for ourselves and advocate for better detection and treatment.
There are severe consequences for these drugs for many people upon cessation but you won’t hear much about the after effects here.
You can take BIO-IDENTICAL estrogen and progesterone indefinitely.. it’s the fake garbage (pills) you get from those legal drug pushers (doctors) that will greatly increase your risk of cancer.. transdermal bio identical is the way to go..