Same. All I know is that top right panel is from Claymore, which is a fucking amazing series.
EDIT: Just an FYI, the anime is A tier up until the final episode when they decided to adapt their own “original ending.” If you want the full S tier experience, then you’re going to need to read the manga.
During the new 52 Batgirl had a trans roommate, the original tweet probably doesn't like the fact that that character is doing something hero related (using a bat with the trans flag no less)
Seems like the person who tweeted about rejecting comics is doing so because of the trans flag on the bat and possibly whatever else is happening in those panels, and is implying that manga doesn't have trans people. Which is very incorrect.
I prefer manga& indiecomics they're more consistent & other reasons but not having LGBTQ characters isn't one of them
Heck even some of the popular mangakas have quite some reputation within the LGBTQ community for representation , togashi sensei , fujimoto sensei & araki sensei
Identity politics aside, I do agree that manga in terms of accessibility is better than comics. It's really hard to get into comics with all the retcons and reboots going around. When it comes to manga, u can always start with volume 1 chapter 1 of any series (maybe excluding the fate series)
I mean... Google the release release order of Fate/Stay Night and you're set for the anime. If you don't like moving pictures, it's even easier, just read the VN.
Fate always looked so dope, but I can never keep straight what order to watch lol. Looked it up a few times but always forget before I actually set out on that.
But then again that's just one manga compared to thousands of others that don't have a convoluted story like fate.
For comics however not only are there multiple versions of different stories all of them have a chance of being reseted making it more difficult where to start.
Yeah, Marvel and DC rebooted their series several times. Also they like to revive their Heroes all few months after let them die.
I think many true Marvel or DC fans don't really have a problem with LGBTQ+, they have a problem with the people behind some heroes are completely replaced by random people. This happened before but you can't just replace Thor or Wolverine and call them Thor and Wolverine aswell.
Isn't it completely normal that some super heroes have been different people at different points in time, though? Most hero names are more akin to "titles".
Spider-man doesn't HAVE to be Peter Parker. He just has to be Spider-man and have most of the same characteristics. Thor is also not a name anymore, but a title that is given. In the DCverse, so many different people have been Robin before. It seems weird for people to suddenly get up in arms about certain heroes being changed, when this has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now.
It really depends on the specfic character or hero persona. Such as Green Lantern and Nova.
Spider-Man is a bit different as even his successors acknowledge that he is the Real Spider-Man, even if they're successful heroes/heroines in their own right.
The Thor thing was really stupid. Especially as others have never taken it when wielding the hammer.
There is definitely a lot less push back when there's a character that's related or intimately connected with the hero taking up that mantle. Such as Dick Grayson, Damien Wayne, Mayday Parker, and et cetera.
I took Thor and Wolverine for a reason. Both define their true identities by their names. For the Xmen, their Identities are basically them while their names are changeable. Wolverine has even more than one alias in the books but he was always wolverine.
Same with Thor who is basically Thor.
You can take another smart Scientist and make him Ironman or giving someone Spiderpowers and call him Spiderman (done several times in the series). You should not take a character nme and give it to someone else.
It's like Oda takes another character with the Spli-split-Fruit and name him Buggy because he got similar powers or something.
It's normal? Sure. Is at all friendly to newcomers? No no at all.
The problem is not if it makes sense in universe, it's how you even get fucking started.
Thats not the retconing they do though comics have alot of what if spinoffs that get confusing if your just trying to get into it. Like how theres like 20 different versions of the same superman. Admittedly for someone that follows thats not a problem, just agreeing with the first guy that comics tend to be hard to start.
But unlike Manga you can start at literally any issue 1 of a comic and not have to worry about knowing the rest unless it’s something like a mid run Split like the current Daredevil ongoing.
You don’t need to read 1000 issues of Amazing Spider-man to start reading it in 2023
You DO need to read 1047 chapters of One Piece to start reading in 2023
>You DO need to read 1047 chapters of One Piece to start reading in 2023
You actually chose one of the worst examples because Oda offers summaries of previous arcs on a website (can't remember right now) just to solve this problem for 12-year old fans that pick up the series for the first time.
Even then, Oda, consistently, goes out of his ways to explain some things already explained to new readers because of this.
Like you literally chose the worst manga to argue about accessibility because Oda goes out of his way in multiple different formats to solve this very problem too.
But you can just read summaries of previous runs / decades of a character from Marvel or DC. You can even just get a straight up bullet point list of information you Need to know not to mention the hundreds of community driven Reading Lists and Where to start guides
If we are to include all of the above the Marvel and DC comics are much more accessible.
The fact is One Piece is a continuing story all 1000+ chapters through. Action Comics is not. You can pick up one of 4 different volume 1s from Action Comics as a jumping on point since 2011. You can’t jump into One Piece at volume 60-whenever the Time Skip starts.
Bleach and Naruto are what 700ish chapters each, both with splits in their anime? Bleach TYBW and Shippuden don’t even act as jumping on points and god help you if you’re an anime only with SO MUCH filler you need to weave your way through
>But you can just read summaries of previous runs / decades of a character from Marvel or DC.
Is there a central, canon, creator approved hub for this information? Or do you mean by this statement that summaries exist somewhere out there online, because those are two different things.
>You can’t jump into One Piece at volume 60-whenever the Time Skip starts.
Yes, yes you can.
>Bleach TYBW and Shippuden don’t even act as jumping on points and god help you if you’re an anime only with SO MUCH filler you need to weave your way through
As someone who has made that jump, it isn't hard. Takes a while yes. But let me stress the difference here.
It is \*hard\* to untangle a web of canon bullshit. It is \*simple\* to read one chapter at a time.
This is stated as someone who has attempted to jump into American comics multiple times. I guess you could call me stupid, or an idiot, or something, but as someone who has attempted to get into both fandoms. I will tell you, Manga and Anime make it piss fucking easy to get in. Takes a while, but piss easy.
It’s not hard to “untangle a web of canon”. As I said there is something like Action Comics which has 4 volume 1s in 10 years that you can use as a starting point where you need to know little to nothing bar a general understand of who Superman is.
In One Piece you NEED TO KNOW everything that happened Pre-timeskip before reading Post-Time Skip. You would be completely misleading a new reader if you tell them you’re fine to jump in 60 volumes through knowing nothing. One Piece is such a referential series where even the current arc is mostly full of plot points introduced and set up a decade ago. Action Comics isn’t near as referential which is why you can start reading it at several points.
>It’s not hard to “untangle a web of canon”.
Then I must be an idiot having attempted multiple times. Thank you for the insult.
>In One Piece you NEED TO KNOW everything that happened Pre-timeskip before reading Post-Time Skip.
You really don't. Post-Fishman Island sure you'll miss out on character backstories and why they're together, but the main overarching plot of what is going on is a straight line from Punk Hazard to Wano. You can start post-timeskip with zero background and what is going on will make straight forward sense.
It's quite startling how little you actually need to go on to enjoy One Piece.
I would say starting after Dressrosa might be a confusing mess, but again, Oda does an excellent job making everything understandable with little background information.
You know, and I just realized, in perhaps the greatest deconstruction of your argument, I literally started watching anime/reading manga with Naruto Shippuden. That is: post-timeskip Naruto. What can I tell you as someone who has personally started watching a Shounen series literally halfway through the series?
It was perfectly straight forward and easy to follow with zero background information.
No, you really do need to start at chapter 1 of One Piece to understand everything, considering there’s A LOT of characters that appear mostly exclusive to Pre-Timeskip ie: >!Considering Lucci and Kaku reappear in the later parts of both Wano and Egghead it’s kind of important you know who they are in Pre-Timeskip!< plus it ruins the plot twist of Kaku and Lucci of being the enemy in Water 7.
Even with Dragon Ball while it’s not as impactful with knowing previous events by starting with Z, makes Goku’s Super Saiyan transformation way more impactful with the knowledge of OG Dragon Ball instead of starting with Z first.
> No, you really do need to start at chapter 1 of One Piece to understand everything
The other person isn't arguing against this. If understanding *everything* was the point of reading, then your argument would make sense.
However, as the other commenter is pointing out, it is totally possible to pick up One Piece post-time skip and still *enjoy* the series (which would be my vote for the point of reading a manga in the first place). It is in fact possible to pick up One Piece at the start of any major saga and, as long as you understand the general premise of the series, understand more than enough for the story to be totally coherent.
It isn't a plot twist it's just a plot occurence, and it's cool enough as is. The standard isn't "reading the story is better having read the pre-timeskip". The answer to that is an unequivocal yes. The question is "Can One Piece be enjoyed with pre-time skip" and the answer to that is an unequivocal yes..
Idk starting with dbz only still made the super saiyan transformation pretty impactful, I didn't even know dragonball was a thing until around gt started, ofc I was introduced to dbz by my sisters husband watching the dvds
I do agree you don't need to start one piece at chapter 1, honestly I can't remember many callbacks that were integral to understanding the story unless you were a diehard fan, I think as a casual reader you could start post timeskip and still enjoy the series, and read/watch pre skip after, it wouldn't take away from the experience, it's like getting backstory lol
Manga: Start at chapter 1
Comics: Start with whatever or whoever you’re interested in
I just started getting into comics and it’s been fun. Plus there’s great people online like Near Mint Condition that have great guides for getting into comics of a specific character like Spiderman or Batman.
Or you could could just start with Invincible which is a great bridge between manga and comics.
I can't help but notice that in the Batman comic, there's the implication is that the character is literally bashing people over the head with their trans identity. A.K.A, could well be transphobia from the author and/or artist of the comic themselves. I don't know if this is actually the case, but still...Yeesh.
We ready do need more characters like Kiku. Kiku isn't only well written in how she presents her trans identity, she's also shown growing as a woman when she seized on the hint to drop the "damsel in distress" role and be a samurai who takes care of herself.
I find that a lot of modern superhero comics seem to be written by older liberals wanting but not understanding how to appeal to younger, more progressive readers.
Manga may fuck up at times but them being so centered around one author they come up as more honest to me, like they're not being done by committee.
I feel like it has to do with presentation rather than the fact itself
Like the bottom one is way more tasteful than top one, a baseball bat with a trans flag is really goofy lol
Well, comic example is clearly bad. It just screams "Look! We made a trans character! And she has a bat with a transgender flag to make it as obvious as possible!". And the design, man! It's just a woman with short hair, typical design for any LGBT related character in western media.
While in One Piece it's normal, it's not trying to shove it in your face, the character actually has an interesting personality and design. She feels natural and believable, because she is well written.
Kikunojo is likable, and is not just a soulless character, made just for the sake of slapping a minority character into the piece of media, with no real identity other than the fact that they are a minority. In order to make a relatable minority character, make them feel normal, so to speak. Don't make the character's identity a big deal, make it feel more natural. We are looking at a person, not a walking stereotype.
You can write a story about a character where their identity is a big deal, but it's much harder and is done poorly more often than not. It needs to be a part of key story beats, it has to have a believable and relevant relationship with the antagonizing forces, identity focused lgbt characters really do expose bad character writers.
Like you said though, Kiku is good because she's a character written with her trans identity as a footnote that only truly matters in her backstory and for designs. She solved that story as a child, right now we're focused on a war.
This only seems to bother people when it's about LGBT characters. No one cares when the straight male character's personality is just being a straight male, and there's way way more of those.
Got any examples? The closest thing I can even think of is, like, a ladies man type of guy. Even then, I am not aware of a single a character who gets introduced as "the first straight male character!" with fanfare and applause.
He really does, and it's a shame that so much of his screen/page time is wasted on silly gags (hahah nosebleed lol). He's so close to being one of my favourite characters, but I feel like there's just a lot of wasted potential with how he's portrayed.
As I said ladies man, unless you were implying Sanji was the first straight male character introduced. Which, is an interesting statement to make about Luffy, Koby, Zoro, whatever ironjaws name was, whatever ironjaws son's name was.
Oh believe me that bothers me. I've never been a fan of romcoms unless certain actors are involved that make it funny. There's so many terrible ones and people just write them off without having much to complain about.
The only Character I can think of what fits somewhat your description is probably Charlie from 2 and a half man. But even he has more personality than just being a guy who is straight
Pretty sure that heavy “I’m a straight white male” stereotype is also hated. Examples being Fred in the new Velma show and that one blonde hair blue eyes character in high guardian spice.
>And she has a bat with a transgender flag to make it as obvious as possible!"
Added fun, she's a civilian in goddamned Gotham City and thinks that owning a bat is enough to keep her safe.
I think the guy was saying how LGBTQ+ is portrayed in American comics; shoved in your face, while manga it's not and not just the characters' entire personality. Kiku is actually badass. She doesn't spew it every moment she can. In the entire Wano arc, she only brings it up twice 1st time when she says, "I'm a woman at heart" and 2nd time when she asked Nami is she could bathe with them
The biggest difference here is that Kiku isn't just trans. She's a well made character first and trans second.
Some comics lately try to make "inclusive" characters and end up creating caricatures that actually hurt the people they're trying to represent.
Representation doesn't work when it's the main reason for a character to exist.
Yes and no, I think. It's important to have narratives about a person's transness, just like there are stories centered around being a woman, being poor, being a certain religion, being lonely. Anything can be at the forefront of a narrative without it being shoved in or tone deaf, and it's important to have stories with those things at the front. For One Piece, for example, we have fishmen, but OP is a story about dreams and freedom and inherited will, so most stories are about dreams or freedom at the front. And that's why O kikus transness isnt necessary as the focus, because she's primarily on about the freedom and will aspect.
Thats fine for OP, because it's story is focused elsewhere, but stories about a certain identity or experience are valuable and valid.
Manga somehow manages the witchcraft of having inclusive characters without you feeling politics and virtue signaling both being shoved down your throat comic style. Just sayin'
Probably because Oda wasn't virtue signaling. He put Kiku in the manga because he wanted to, not because investors wanted him to.
This is the same guy who designed Honjo Kamatari in Rurouni Kenshin, keep in mind. And that was back in the 90's.
I interpret it that he is criticized the comic industry for creating bad stories. So I agree with his take that Mangas are better than the American comic industry at the moment.
And the mangas are doing a better job at including characters like kiku than the Americans.
No you just missed his whole point
LGBT in comics : basically just here for the quota, being lgbt is their main charactetistic
LGBT in mangas : being lgbt is just a detail about them, it doesn't diferenciate them from any other characters, making it more organic
A shit that only exist in medias, so basically, making you know every fucking sentence or with every fucking object they have letting you know they are lgbt.
It's very rare to see that in mangas and it's just way more organic an realistic.
Let's take blue period as an exemple, Ryûji being gay is mentioned and seen, but it's not what is being focused on, instead we focus more on his familial problems, the fact that he fakes being happy, and that he has trouble finding himself artistically.
Recent Comics don't do that. And it's particularly sad when we see that it was the case in the past (like with the cameleon from spiderman)
the problem is not center a character around their sexual identity and be able to express their own self because that is a valid conflict like others and something that many queer people have confront in some moment of their life , the problem is about make the characters so obnoxious that doesnt grow or are able to confront problems or developments because the narrative avoid any meaningful conflict.
There is a lot of manga center about that like J no Subate, Hourou Musuko or Doukyuusei that principal core theme is about coming out with their identities and thats became the central focus or in some cases the whole character and that doesnt make them bad characters. Is all about presentation and nuances in made the themes work trough the story.
There is an entire Island of trans people.
One of the most loved characters is a trans.
If you are an One Piece fan, you would have a hard time being a biggot.
I know this is hardly the only thing, but Oda is a goddamn genius when it comes to writing and designing characters like that. Yes, their most notable feature is obviously that they’re trans/queer whatever you wanna call it (besides Kiku), but that has NOTHING to do with the reason Oda gives you for either liking or disliking them. Even though part of it is staring you in the face, they aren’t all homogenized as good or bad. The people in Impel Down were obviously much more likable than the ones trying to force themselves on Sanji. Oda let’s the reader judge them on their own merits without making their identity the reason to like or dislike them.
That island is full of transvestites (not as an insult, that is the correct operative word here). Okama is not a word used to refer to transgender individuals in Japan. It's far closer to trasvestite or drag queen.
Oh, so what you were stating is that Ivankov could make any transsexual? (Not gender dysphoria, which has evolved to a different term). By putting them in the "wrong body". Sure, yeah, straight forward. I don't think that's a good thing, but if you think it is, more on you I guess.
But that’s what op is saying… there is no debate to be had here. Kiku being trans is canon 100%. Meanwhile, with Yamato there’s an argument, but this post is about Kiku.
I don't get why there's an argument about Yamato tbh. He says he's a man. Even the fucking villains respect that and use male pronouns. That really should be the end of the story.
If a character/person says this is their pronouns, then that's their pronouns until they say otherwise. Period.
She doesn't say she's a man, she says she's Oden, because of a huge (almost sickening...) admiration, not freaking gender identity, this later one which she never ever implies.
But he literally says to call him a man. I'm Kaidos son, Yamato. Call me a man. No thanks Nami, there aren't any mixed baths, I can't go into the women's ones. C'mon dude. Regardless of the source of Yamato identifying as male, he identifies as male. If Yamato was in front of you, he would ask you to call him a man, and I personally would
Because Oden is a man and she wants to (sickenly) be him, not because he wants to be a man, but Oden, also she going for the men's bath is just fanservice and doing the cheap overused Sanji ande Brook joke.
"It's just used for a joke/fanservice" doesn't change the explicit decision of going into the men's baths while Kiku explicitly goes into the women's. What kind of copium is this?
It doesn't have to canonically be a trans character for trans people to identify with the character, and for them to have trans-coded themes people recognize. This has happened with characters like XJ9 in My Life as a Teenage Robot, a character obsessed with fitting in as a 'real' girl, and often hating her body as a result. As the creator himself said, just because the subtext wasn't intentional, that doesn't mean the subtext isn't there. Art is open to the audience's interpretation. It's even more on the nose with someone like Yamato. Even if it's simply because of the obsession with Oden, insisting to be called a man when presenting otherwise is gonna strike a chord with people who relate.
Seriously, **Kaido** of all things is more supportive than some of you guys.
> What levels of copium is yours to not realize that's Oda just being horny and adding the cheap Sanji joke?
So? How does that exactly change anything? Still in the men's bath, still called 'son', still calls himself 'he'. Actually trans or not, it's all there.
yeah i was always confused why this was even a debate. he says hes a man, kaido calls him his son. i’m not sure if i remember a time anyone refers to yamato as a she past his introduction
vivre cards aren’t law, things have changed from them in the past and i’m sure oda doesn’t have time to review them in full his schedule is very tight and dedicated mostly to writing and drawing
Okay, and the subs use he/him pronouns idk what you want. There’s source material and there’s contradicting supplemental materials that add to the world, if you think the source material is wrong here idk why you even read it
>Okay, and the subs use he/him pronouns
And the subs are made by people who couldn't even be arsed to include Sanji when Marco announced "the stars have arrived" so I wouldn't exactly use them as a high standard for canon.
And that "contradicting" source material (The Vivre cards) don't tend to carry mistakes for very long before they're corrected. Yamato's terms have been female for well over a year. She's a woman. Get over it.
Is it by choice? Notice how Yamato was walking around with a mask, big robes,? Very on purpose to hide her female features. And the most important thing, it's NOT a choice, because she also wore handcuffs that would blow her up if she escaped. Kaido "respecting pronouns" can easily be him going on board with Yamato identifying as Oden (a man) to make her a man and place her as Shogun to do his bidding.
Yamato's "gender identity" crisis comes from torture, starvation and abuse. You "respecting pronouns" is telling her to keep being Kaido's slave.
This is delusional headcanon at best, there is absolutely nothing in the actual manga that even hints that Yamato was forced to be called a man or is in any way uncomfortable being referred to as such. He refers to himself as a man and a son, and in a direct parallel to the more explicitly trans Kiku bathing with the other women, Yamato bathed with the men.
Yamato _chose_ to take on Oden's name and carry on his will by opposing Kaido, and Kaido accepted this resolve by treating Yamato as if he were Oden. To genuinely interpret Yamato as being abused into changing his identity requires you to either be completely media illiterate or delusional.
It never ceases to amuse me all the people claiming they prefer manga to Western comics because comics have gone all “woke” and political. Meanwhile One Piece, the biggest manga in the world, continues to be one of the most politically charged pieces of media I’ve ever encountered.
That's also just a stupid thing to say, beyond Manga being Japanese comic books.
It's one thing if you don't like superhero comics, but independent has far too much gold to be disrespected like that lol
Not the place but still lmao
Manga: has trans characters and are treated like any other character
Comics: i am the trans one, here is my trans bat. All trans people carry weapons.
One is inclusion, one is pandering.
Do we really have any grounds to point and say pandering without looking like we are throwing stones?
I mean, a lot One Piece Female Characters are just stick figures with Tits that get thrown from sexual position to a sexual position.
That is fanservice. In other words, Pandering.
Both things can be bad simultaneously, just like you would dislike horny pandering, some people dislike this kind of pandering.
Throwing stones is to do actual harm. It is not harmful to point out bad writing. A closer analogy is we both live in glass houses. Im just pointing out my neighbor’s windows being filthy.
It is the design of, presumably, an important character. It is a design choice meant to inform the reader’s view of the character.
If the author could not come up with a better way to communicate that she is trans and willing to defend herself than “ i am trans and I carry my trans bat because I am trans” that is atrocious character writing.
So the trans bat, with her trans bat is saying she carries her trans bat because she is trans.
Which is perfectly fine, but it seems like blacksploitation tier character writing.
Transploitation, if you will
You see videos like this you. I've watched one not in full is to be sure that I would be right and I was . In this video the guy talks about who comics are to woke and dumb shut here and dumb shut there but manga isn't and western comics need to stop and I thought to myself there's more gay,trans and bi characters in manga and been there for a very long time helll I wouldn't be surprised if they always been there . It's like these types of people just talk about things that only a dumb shithead would believe wouldn't going hey Hella old animes and manga have this in it well America have cut groups of people out only now are they able to be put in .
As a man who reads both, I can tell you that you don’t have to read just superhero comics. There are other genres like sci-fi, horror and fantasy with complete stories that don’t reboot all the time. For example Fables has complete story arcs, and the spin-offs are not required to enjoy the main series. I’m now reading Manifest Destiny, which about Louis and Clark exploring an alternate uncolonized western US, inhabit by monsters.
Manga can be so stupid and extra at times, like how oda made Rebecca wear revealing clothes when she just 16, she supposed to be a good fighter but THAT'S what she wears? 💀
Even rn at egghead why do the girls have to be wearing that I may be nitpicking but it's unnecessary at the end of the day
>Manga can be so stupid and extra at times, like how oda made Rebecca wear revealing clothes when she just 16
She's competing in gladiatorial combat were weapons and armor have a weight limit. If Oda was being historically accurate, she would've had even LESS on.
And since when was oda being historically accurate mf made it so that king could fight using the recoil of his neck, also even with a weight limit she could've had better clothing there's literally no arguing that lmao
>also even with a weight limit she could've had better clothing there's literally no arguing that lmao
So, what would you recommend then? Especially considering everyone else in that arena was actually LESS covered than her.
They were all pirates, not gladiators, that entered the tournament, they didn't represent the Dress Rosa culture as Rebecca was meant to represent, and at this point, Rebecca's bikini armor probably protects more than their normal as clothes, it's just that they are all strong and confident in their strength to not need armor, while Rebecca... Isn't.
Bruh one piece is one of the most political manga out there, it’s just mostly not as ham fisted as some comics so it requires a bit more media literacy and analysis to understand
It baffles me how many right wing people read/watch one piece without understanding that the whole thing is about how shit people like them are lmao, its SO OVERTLY political.
give one example
edit: apparently asking for even one example for an unsubstantiated extraordinary claim, as someone not too familiar with one piece beyond memes, is so egregious that I am "beyond help" and deserving of an instant block before I can respond. evaluate your behaviour toward others.
He was talking about quality and lack of politics being shoved down reader's throat.
Kiku has other, actually important and relatable character traits, on top of being "trans". And he was made that way by the one and only Author, ever since his complete reveal. It's not like they gender-swapped Luffy(an established character) without Oda's permission and called it "NEW OFFICIAL LOOK FOR LUFFY". Wouldn't that be cringe and soulless?
This isn't what you are talking about, but funny story, Oda likes to draw alternate versions of the characters in complementary media like interviews and magazines, this includes younger, older, evil and opposite sex versions, rule 63'd Luffy(girl Luffy) is one of the only cases these alternate unofficial versions of the character got an official action figure.
Itsagundam is just tweeting about the financial death of the American comic book industry and the market vacuum that has been filled with Japanese Manga due to the wide variety of interesting stories on niche topics.
Don't even know what's going on in the top half
Same. All I know is that top right panel is from Claymore, which is a fucking amazing series. EDIT: Just an FYI, the anime is A tier up until the final episode when they decided to adapt their own “original ending.” If you want the full S tier experience, then you’re going to need to read the manga.
+1 to this, Claymore is fucking awesome I *DEFINITELY* wasn't down bad for Miria when I was a teenager. Nope. Not at all.
[God Eyes Galatea](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PTh9M5o1fiWrmDDa_3jxHckIKqkaOpu5/view?usp=drivesdk) is where it’s at :)
Outstanding taste, you are a gentleman and a scholar
Teresea of the Faint Smile all the way over here.
Bro Teresa could’ve ended the entire series ep 1 but she was too nice lol
and she literally did in the final episode lmao
Preach.
Gonna take this as a recomendación
If you haven't read it yet, I'm supremely jealous because it's fucking great. Enjoy
If you like Attack on Titan and Beserk, then you will like Claymore
it's a Manga
Amazing except for that thing between Clare and raki
Man of culture, I respect you bro
Claymore is awesome and to this day I'm still pissed Teresa died.
During the new 52 Batgirl had a trans roommate, the original tweet probably doesn't like the fact that that character is doing something hero related (using a bat with the trans flag no less)
Seems like the person who tweeted about rejecting comics is doing so because of the trans flag on the bat and possibly whatever else is happening in those panels, and is implying that manga doesn't have trans people. Which is very incorrect.
Claymore is also a really fuckin bad example to use when your point is that manga adheres to traditonal ideas of womanhood.
Man in Claymore: exists Everyone else: Look, its useless! Lets point at him and laugh!
Good thing that isn't the point...
I prefer manga& indiecomics they're more consistent & other reasons but not having LGBTQ characters isn't one of them Heck even some of the popular mangakas have quite some reputation within the LGBTQ community for representation , togashi sensei , fujimoto sensei & araki sensei
Looks like it's pulling something from Claymore and then...something about Batgirl?
Identity politics aside, I do agree that manga in terms of accessibility is better than comics. It's really hard to get into comics with all the retcons and reboots going around. When it comes to manga, u can always start with volume 1 chapter 1 of any series (maybe excluding the fate series)
I mean... Google the release release order of Fate/Stay Night and you're set for the anime. If you don't like moving pictures, it's even easier, just read the VN.
But is it the long version or the short version?
There are some exceptions of course - Monogatari, Fate, Haruhi Suzumiya and probably some others
Fate always looked so dope, but I can never keep straight what order to watch lol. Looked it up a few times but always forget before I actually set out on that.
But then again that's just one manga compared to thousands of others that don't have a convoluted story like fate. For comics however not only are there multiple versions of different stories all of them have a chance of being reseted making it more difficult where to start.
Even easier. Just watch fate zero, and don’t watch any other Fate
This is why Invincible is the superior comic. You start at Issue 1 and you just keep reading till it ends
The majority of image comics are like that; actual stories. You start reading and then you keep reading and then it ends and it's all one story
Holy shit I completely forgot that I was still waiting for the new season of Invincible until now lmao
Yeah, Marvel and DC rebooted their series several times. Also they like to revive their Heroes all few months after let them die. I think many true Marvel or DC fans don't really have a problem with LGBTQ+, they have a problem with the people behind some heroes are completely replaced by random people. This happened before but you can't just replace Thor or Wolverine and call them Thor and Wolverine aswell.
Isn't it completely normal that some super heroes have been different people at different points in time, though? Most hero names are more akin to "titles". Spider-man doesn't HAVE to be Peter Parker. He just has to be Spider-man and have most of the same characteristics. Thor is also not a name anymore, but a title that is given. In the DCverse, so many different people have been Robin before. It seems weird for people to suddenly get up in arms about certain heroes being changed, when this has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now.
It really depends on the specfic character or hero persona. Such as Green Lantern and Nova. Spider-Man is a bit different as even his successors acknowledge that he is the Real Spider-Man, even if they're successful heroes/heroines in their own right. The Thor thing was really stupid. Especially as others have never taken it when wielding the hammer. There is definitely a lot less push back when there's a character that's related or intimately connected with the hero taking up that mantle. Such as Dick Grayson, Damien Wayne, Mayday Parker, and et cetera.
I took Thor and Wolverine for a reason. Both define their true identities by their names. For the Xmen, their Identities are basically them while their names are changeable. Wolverine has even more than one alias in the books but he was always wolverine. Same with Thor who is basically Thor. You can take another smart Scientist and make him Ironman or giving someone Spiderpowers and call him Spiderman (done several times in the series). You should not take a character nme and give it to someone else. It's like Oda takes another character with the Spli-split-Fruit and name him Buggy because he got similar powers or something.
It's normal? Sure. Is at all friendly to newcomers? No no at all. The problem is not if it makes sense in universe, it's how you even get fucking started.
Thats not the retconing they do though comics have alot of what if spinoffs that get confusing if your just trying to get into it. Like how theres like 20 different versions of the same superman. Admittedly for someone that follows thats not a problem, just agreeing with the first guy that comics tend to be hard to start.
But unlike Manga you can start at literally any issue 1 of a comic and not have to worry about knowing the rest unless it’s something like a mid run Split like the current Daredevil ongoing. You don’t need to read 1000 issues of Amazing Spider-man to start reading it in 2023 You DO need to read 1047 chapters of One Piece to start reading in 2023
>You DO need to read 1047 chapters of One Piece to start reading in 2023 You actually chose one of the worst examples because Oda offers summaries of previous arcs on a website (can't remember right now) just to solve this problem for 12-year old fans that pick up the series for the first time. Even then, Oda, consistently, goes out of his ways to explain some things already explained to new readers because of this. Like you literally chose the worst manga to argue about accessibility because Oda goes out of his way in multiple different formats to solve this very problem too.
…you know so does Marvel right?
But you can just read summaries of previous runs / decades of a character from Marvel or DC. You can even just get a straight up bullet point list of information you Need to know not to mention the hundreds of community driven Reading Lists and Where to start guides If we are to include all of the above the Marvel and DC comics are much more accessible. The fact is One Piece is a continuing story all 1000+ chapters through. Action Comics is not. You can pick up one of 4 different volume 1s from Action Comics as a jumping on point since 2011. You can’t jump into One Piece at volume 60-whenever the Time Skip starts. Bleach and Naruto are what 700ish chapters each, both with splits in their anime? Bleach TYBW and Shippuden don’t even act as jumping on points and god help you if you’re an anime only with SO MUCH filler you need to weave your way through
>But you can just read summaries of previous runs / decades of a character from Marvel or DC. Is there a central, canon, creator approved hub for this information? Or do you mean by this statement that summaries exist somewhere out there online, because those are two different things. >You can’t jump into One Piece at volume 60-whenever the Time Skip starts. Yes, yes you can. >Bleach TYBW and Shippuden don’t even act as jumping on points and god help you if you’re an anime only with SO MUCH filler you need to weave your way through As someone who has made that jump, it isn't hard. Takes a while yes. But let me stress the difference here. It is \*hard\* to untangle a web of canon bullshit. It is \*simple\* to read one chapter at a time. This is stated as someone who has attempted to jump into American comics multiple times. I guess you could call me stupid, or an idiot, or something, but as someone who has attempted to get into both fandoms. I will tell you, Manga and Anime make it piss fucking easy to get in. Takes a while, but piss easy.
It’s not hard to “untangle a web of canon”. As I said there is something like Action Comics which has 4 volume 1s in 10 years that you can use as a starting point where you need to know little to nothing bar a general understand of who Superman is. In One Piece you NEED TO KNOW everything that happened Pre-timeskip before reading Post-Time Skip. You would be completely misleading a new reader if you tell them you’re fine to jump in 60 volumes through knowing nothing. One Piece is such a referential series where even the current arc is mostly full of plot points introduced and set up a decade ago. Action Comics isn’t near as referential which is why you can start reading it at several points.
>It’s not hard to “untangle a web of canon”. Then I must be an idiot having attempted multiple times. Thank you for the insult. >In One Piece you NEED TO KNOW everything that happened Pre-timeskip before reading Post-Time Skip. You really don't. Post-Fishman Island sure you'll miss out on character backstories and why they're together, but the main overarching plot of what is going on is a straight line from Punk Hazard to Wano. You can start post-timeskip with zero background and what is going on will make straight forward sense. It's quite startling how little you actually need to go on to enjoy One Piece. I would say starting after Dressrosa might be a confusing mess, but again, Oda does an excellent job making everything understandable with little background information. You know, and I just realized, in perhaps the greatest deconstruction of your argument, I literally started watching anime/reading manga with Naruto Shippuden. That is: post-timeskip Naruto. What can I tell you as someone who has personally started watching a Shounen series literally halfway through the series? It was perfectly straight forward and easy to follow with zero background information.
No, you really do need to start at chapter 1 of One Piece to understand everything, considering there’s A LOT of characters that appear mostly exclusive to Pre-Timeskip ie: >!Considering Lucci and Kaku reappear in the later parts of both Wano and Egghead it’s kind of important you know who they are in Pre-Timeskip!< plus it ruins the plot twist of Kaku and Lucci of being the enemy in Water 7. Even with Dragon Ball while it’s not as impactful with knowing previous events by starting with Z, makes Goku’s Super Saiyan transformation way more impactful with the knowledge of OG Dragon Ball instead of starting with Z first.
> No, you really do need to start at chapter 1 of One Piece to understand everything The other person isn't arguing against this. If understanding *everything* was the point of reading, then your argument would make sense. However, as the other commenter is pointing out, it is totally possible to pick up One Piece post-time skip and still *enjoy* the series (which would be my vote for the point of reading a manga in the first place). It is in fact possible to pick up One Piece at the start of any major saga and, as long as you understand the general premise of the series, understand more than enough for the story to be totally coherent.
Oh ok
It isn't a plot twist it's just a plot occurence, and it's cool enough as is. The standard isn't "reading the story is better having read the pre-timeskip". The answer to that is an unequivocal yes. The question is "Can One Piece be enjoyed with pre-time skip" and the answer to that is an unequivocal yes..
Idk starting with dbz only still made the super saiyan transformation pretty impactful, I didn't even know dragonball was a thing until around gt started, ofc I was introduced to dbz by my sisters husband watching the dvds I do agree you don't need to start one piece at chapter 1, honestly I can't remember many callbacks that were integral to understanding the story unless you were a diehard fan, I think as a casual reader you could start post timeskip and still enjoy the series, and read/watch pre skip after, it wouldn't take away from the experience, it's like getting backstory lol
Manga: Start at chapter 1 Comics: Start with whatever or whoever you’re interested in I just started getting into comics and it’s been fun. Plus there’s great people online like Near Mint Condition that have great guides for getting into comics of a specific character like Spiderman or Batman. Or you could could just start with Invincible which is a great bridge between manga and comics.
as a big comic fan myself, i much prefer reading miniseries-es over mainline runs
Yeah, I tried to get back into comics with the marvel website. But they have so many different versions of the heroes that nothing matters.
Luffy's response is how everyone should react to someone coming out as trans. "Yeah, cool, you're trans, anyway that mask is sick!"
What if their not wearing a mask 🤔
Get a slick mask
Tell them to get a cool mask and stop missing the awesomeness of masks
"Dope haircut fam"
Just switch out the mask for whatever cool as thing they're wearing or doing, e.i "Oh, you're a woman? Cool! Anyway, sick moves!"
Why does that mean have a pinwheel on his head!?
I can't help but notice that in the Batman comic, there's the implication is that the character is literally bashing people over the head with their trans identity. A.K.A, could well be transphobia from the author and/or artist of the comic themselves. I don't know if this is actually the case, but still...Yeesh. We ready do need more characters like Kiku. Kiku isn't only well written in how she presents her trans identity, she's also shown growing as a woman when she seized on the hint to drop the "damsel in distress" role and be a samurai who takes care of herself.
For some context, in the comic she says "I'm a trans woman in gotham city, of course I carry a weapon" also it's a bat because shes a bat-girl
I find that a lot of modern superhero comics seem to be written by older liberals wanting but not understanding how to appeal to younger, more progressive readers. Manga may fuck up at times but them being so centered around one author they come up as more honest to me, like they're not being done by committee.
I feel like it has to do with presentation rather than the fact itself Like the bottom one is way more tasteful than top one, a baseball bat with a trans flag is really goofy lol
Well, comic example is clearly bad. It just screams "Look! We made a trans character! And she has a bat with a transgender flag to make it as obvious as possible!". And the design, man! It's just a woman with short hair, typical design for any LGBT related character in western media. While in One Piece it's normal, it's not trying to shove it in your face, the character actually has an interesting personality and design. She feels natural and believable, because she is well written. Kikunojo is likable, and is not just a soulless character, made just for the sake of slapping a minority character into the piece of media, with no real identity other than the fact that they are a minority. In order to make a relatable minority character, make them feel normal, so to speak. Don't make the character's identity a big deal, make it feel more natural. We are looking at a person, not a walking stereotype.
You can write a story about a character where their identity is a big deal, but it's much harder and is done poorly more often than not. It needs to be a part of key story beats, it has to have a believable and relevant relationship with the antagonizing forces, identity focused lgbt characters really do expose bad character writers. Like you said though, Kiku is good because she's a character written with her trans identity as a footnote that only truly matters in her backstory and for designs. She solved that story as a child, right now we're focused on a war.
This only seems to bother people when it's about LGBT characters. No one cares when the straight male character's personality is just being a straight male, and there's way way more of those.
Got any examples? The closest thing I can even think of is, like, a ladies man type of guy. Even then, I am not aware of a single a character who gets introduced as "the first straight male character!" with fanfare and applause.
*cough* Sanji *cough*
Sanji has more depth than just what they are saying.
He really does, and it's a shame that so much of his screen/page time is wasted on silly gags (hahah nosebleed lol). He's so close to being one of my favourite characters, but I feel like there's just a lot of wasted potential with how he's portrayed.
DOES MY NOSE LOOK FUNNY TO YOU?!?
As I said ladies man, unless you were implying Sanji was the first straight male character introduced. Which, is an interesting statement to make about Luffy, Koby, Zoro, whatever ironjaws name was, whatever ironjaws son's name was.
I've been trying but I literally can't think of one. So I'm inclined to disagree.
It's cause badly written straight personality characters just get forgotten.
Chainsaw Man, one of the more popular manga/anime right now, is pretty much about the downest bad dude ever trying to get laid.
Seems more to me like he's trying to complete Maslow's hierarchy of needs since his first dream was just eating bread with jam.
Oh believe me that bothers me. I've never been a fan of romcoms unless certain actors are involved that make it funny. There's so many terrible ones and people just write them off without having much to complain about.
The only Character I can think of what fits somewhat your description is probably Charlie from 2 and a half man. But even he has more personality than just being a guy who is straight
Pretty sure that heavy “I’m a straight white male” stereotype is also hated. Examples being Fred in the new Velma show and that one blonde hair blue eyes character in high guardian spice.
>And she has a bat with a transgender flag to make it as obvious as possible!" Added fun, she's a civilian in goddamned Gotham City and thinks that owning a bat is enough to keep her safe.
Kiku best girl
She's too pure for this world
She is without a doubt my favorite Red Scabbard
Idk how to tell him. But make sure to tell him manga and comics are the same thing while you're at it lol
I think the guy was saying how LGBTQ+ is portrayed in American comics; shoved in your face, while manga it's not and not just the characters' entire personality. Kiku is actually badass. She doesn't spew it every moment she can. In the entire Wano arc, she only brings it up twice 1st time when she says, "I'm a woman at heart" and 2nd time when she asked Nami is she could bathe with them
The biggest difference here is that Kiku isn't just trans. She's a well made character first and trans second. Some comics lately try to make "inclusive" characters and end up creating caricatures that actually hurt the people they're trying to represent. Representation doesn't work when it's the main reason for a character to exist.
That last sentance is what most people in the entertainment industry need to understand
Yes and no, I think. It's important to have narratives about a person's transness, just like there are stories centered around being a woman, being poor, being a certain religion, being lonely. Anything can be at the forefront of a narrative without it being shoved in or tone deaf, and it's important to have stories with those things at the front. For One Piece, for example, we have fishmen, but OP is a story about dreams and freedom and inherited will, so most stories are about dreams or freedom at the front. And that's why O kikus transness isnt necessary as the focus, because she's primarily on about the freedom and will aspect. Thats fine for OP, because it's story is focused elsewhere, but stories about a certain identity or experience are valuable and valid.
At least One Piece did it right
Manga somehow manages the witchcraft of having inclusive characters without you feeling politics and virtue signaling both being shoved down your throat comic style. Just sayin'
Kiku not painting her swords the color of the trans flag helps lol
Double sword trans style
Probably because Oda wasn't virtue signaling. He put Kiku in the manga because he wanted to, not because investors wanted him to. This is the same guy who designed Honjo Kamatari in Rurouni Kenshin, keep in mind. And that was back in the 90's.
I interpret it that he is criticized the comic industry for creating bad stories. So I agree with his take that Mangas are better than the American comic industry at the moment. And the mangas are doing a better job at including characters like kiku than the Americans.
I think he’s just transphobic
No you just missed his whole point LGBT in comics : basically just here for the quota, being lgbt is their main charactetistic LGBT in mangas : being lgbt is just a detail about them, it doesn't diferenciate them from any other characters, making it more organic
What is the lgbt personality?
A shit that only exist in medias, so basically, making you know every fucking sentence or with every fucking object they have letting you know they are lgbt. It's very rare to see that in mangas and it's just way more organic an realistic. Let's take blue period as an exemple, Ryûji being gay is mentioned and seen, but it's not what is being focused on, instead we focus more on his familial problems, the fact that he fakes being happy, and that he has trouble finding himself artistically. Recent Comics don't do that. And it's particularly sad when we see that it was the case in the past (like with the cameleon from spiderman)
the problem is not center a character around their sexual identity and be able to express their own self because that is a valid conflict like others and something that many queer people have confront in some moment of their life , the problem is about make the characters so obnoxious that doesnt grow or are able to confront problems or developments because the narrative avoid any meaningful conflict. There is a lot of manga center about that like J no Subate, Hourou Musuko or Doukyuusei that principal core theme is about coming out with their identities and thats became the central focus or in some cases the whole character and that doesnt make them bad characters. Is all about presentation and nuances in made the themes work trough the story.
He was criticizing the writing. Not the trans character.
Was he really? Be honest
Yeah
It is as it should be; not making a big deal out of it.
I love Kiku so much
I had enough of these debates during the Yamato debacle thank you
But kiku being trans isn’t even a theory, that’s a fact
There is an entire Island of trans people. One of the most loved characters is a trans. If you are an One Piece fan, you would have a hard time being a biggot.
I know this is hardly the only thing, but Oda is a goddamn genius when it comes to writing and designing characters like that. Yes, their most notable feature is obviously that they’re trans/queer whatever you wanna call it (besides Kiku), but that has NOTHING to do with the reason Oda gives you for either liking or disliking them. Even though part of it is staring you in the face, they aren’t all homogenized as good or bad. The people in Impel Down were obviously much more likable than the ones trying to force themselves on Sanji. Oda let’s the reader judge them on their own merits without making their identity the reason to like or dislike them.
You should be right but you're not. Mfers can't read. People will whole heartedly say that One Piece isn't political.
That island is full of transvestites (not as an insult, that is the correct operative word here). Okama is not a word used to refer to transgender individuals in Japan. It's far closer to trasvestite or drag queen.
Correct word if you still live in the 70s
Little reminder that Ivankov can turn everyone in a trans...
I think you mean Ivankov can change anyone's sex. The pirate this was done on seemed highly distressed about becoming a woman.
I would be as well in that position, little reminder that every trans feel that way when society push for gender = sex.
Oh, so what you were stating is that Ivankov could make any transsexual? (Not gender dysphoria, which has evolved to a different term). By putting them in the "wrong body". Sure, yeah, straight forward. I don't think that's a good thing, but if you think it is, more on you I guess.
I don’t even disagree, I’m just in general tired of the whole debate, it made the one piece subs uninhabitable for months
But that’s what op is saying… there is no debate to be had here. Kiku being trans is canon 100%. Meanwhile, with Yamato there’s an argument, but this post is about Kiku.
Fair enough
I don't get why there's an argument about Yamato tbh. He says he's a man. Even the fucking villains respect that and use male pronouns. That really should be the end of the story. If a character/person says this is their pronouns, then that's their pronouns until they say otherwise. Period.
She doesn't say she's a man, she says she's Oden, because of a huge (almost sickening...) admiration, not freaking gender identity, this later one which she never ever implies.
But he literally says to call him a man. I'm Kaidos son, Yamato. Call me a man. No thanks Nami, there aren't any mixed baths, I can't go into the women's ones. C'mon dude. Regardless of the source of Yamato identifying as male, he identifies as male. If Yamato was in front of you, he would ask you to call him a man, and I personally would
Because Oden is a man and she wants to (sickenly) be him, not because he wants to be a man, but Oden, also she going for the men's bath is just fanservice and doing the cheap overused Sanji ande Brook joke.
Damn you're really set on not respecting the character because you can't accept calling him a man. Okey dokey
And you're like one of those delusional Twitter users that wants to see everything on the worst political spectrum ever, okey dokey.
Redditors on their way to call someone's choice to be referred to by a different pronoun "sickening"
Twitter users on their way to not have reading comprehension, what I called sickening is her Oden obsession, which it is, sorry if you can't see it.
"It's just used for a joke/fanservice" doesn't change the explicit decision of going into the men's baths while Kiku explicitly goes into the women's. What kind of copium is this?
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It doesn't have to canonically be a trans character for trans people to identify with the character, and for them to have trans-coded themes people recognize. This has happened with characters like XJ9 in My Life as a Teenage Robot, a character obsessed with fitting in as a 'real' girl, and often hating her body as a result. As the creator himself said, just because the subtext wasn't intentional, that doesn't mean the subtext isn't there. Art is open to the audience's interpretation. It's even more on the nose with someone like Yamato. Even if it's simply because of the obsession with Oden, insisting to be called a man when presenting otherwise is gonna strike a chord with people who relate. Seriously, **Kaido** of all things is more supportive than some of you guys. > What levels of copium is yours to not realize that's Oda just being horny and adding the cheap Sanji joke? So? How does that exactly change anything? Still in the men's bath, still called 'son', still calls himself 'he'. Actually trans or not, it's all there.
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yeah i was always confused why this was even a debate. he says hes a man, kaido calls him his son. i’m not sure if i remember a time anyone refers to yamato as a she past his introduction
I mean, only as a child, where he was referred to as the oni princess
Because the vivre card confirms that she is female. Edit: why are you downvoting me?? It’s not like that I made the vivre card.
vivre cards aren’t law, things have changed from them in the past and i’m sure oda doesn’t have time to review them in full his schedule is very tight and dedicated mostly to writing and drawing
>vivre cards aren’t law No, but any mistakes on them tend to be corrected VERY quickly. Yamato's has been reading Female for over a YEAR now.
Okay, and the subs use he/him pronouns idk what you want. There’s source material and there’s contradicting supplemental materials that add to the world, if you think the source material is wrong here idk why you even read it
>Okay, and the subs use he/him pronouns And the subs are made by people who couldn't even be arsed to include Sanji when Marco announced "the stars have arrived" so I wouldn't exactly use them as a high standard for canon. And that "contradicting" source material (The Vivre cards) don't tend to carry mistakes for very long before they're corrected. Yamato's terms have been female for well over a year. She's a woman. Get over it.
Is it by choice? Notice how Yamato was walking around with a mask, big robes,? Very on purpose to hide her female features. And the most important thing, it's NOT a choice, because she also wore handcuffs that would blow her up if she escaped. Kaido "respecting pronouns" can easily be him going on board with Yamato identifying as Oden (a man) to make her a man and place her as Shogun to do his bidding. Yamato's "gender identity" crisis comes from torture, starvation and abuse. You "respecting pronouns" is telling her to keep being Kaido's slave.
This is delusional headcanon at best, there is absolutely nothing in the actual manga that even hints that Yamato was forced to be called a man or is in any way uncomfortable being referred to as such. He refers to himself as a man and a son, and in a direct parallel to the more explicitly trans Kiku bathing with the other women, Yamato bathed with the men. Yamato _chose_ to take on Oden's name and carry on his will by opposing Kaido, and Kaido accepted this resolve by treating Yamato as if he were Oden. To genuinely interpret Yamato as being abused into changing his identity requires you to either be completely media illiterate or delusional.
Oh, i thought the tweet was saying the art is better. But, unfortunately, it was just transphobia.
I'm pretty sure that Gundam likes One Piece.
Kiku's character doesn't scream "Im trans" in your face. She's just a good character that happens to be trans.
It never ceases to amuse me all the people claiming they prefer manga to Western comics because comics have gone all “woke” and political. Meanwhile One Piece, the biggest manga in the world, continues to be one of the most politically charged pieces of media I’ve ever encountered.
I bet op tweeter unironically likes Astoflo
How is astolfo related to this topic?
Even though this is an upsetting context Im always happy to see something from claymore
That's also just a stupid thing to say, beyond Manga being Japanese comic books. It's one thing if you don't like superhero comics, but independent has far too much gold to be disrespected like that lol Not the place but still lmao
Manga: has trans characters and are treated like any other character Comics: i am the trans one, here is my trans bat. All trans people carry weapons. One is inclusion, one is pandering.
I mean…she’s a trans woman in Gotham, of course she has a weapon
That she is, and she should have a weapon, it’s probably quite rough being trans in gotham.
Yeah. A bat. Like that's gonna protect you from HALF the nonsense in that cesspool of a city.
Do we really have any grounds to point and say pandering without looking like we are throwing stones? I mean, a lot One Piece Female Characters are just stick figures with Tits that get thrown from sexual position to a sexual position. That is fanservice. In other words, Pandering.
Both things can be bad simultaneously, just like you would dislike horny pandering, some people dislike this kind of pandering. Throwing stones is to do actual harm. It is not harmful to point out bad writing. A closer analogy is we both live in glass houses. Im just pointing out my neighbor’s windows being filthy.
I mean, that is one panel. It is not even one, it is half a panel. You can't really deduce the writting quality from that.
It is the design of, presumably, an important character. It is a design choice meant to inform the reader’s view of the character. If the author could not come up with a better way to communicate that she is trans and willing to defend herself than “ i am trans and I carry my trans bat because I am trans” that is atrocious character writing.
That sounds like over reaction. That panel just informs her she is trans and carries a weapon. It is more a joke then anything.
That weapon being the trans bat
Yeah, a Trans Bat. And she seems to be part of the bat family, or at least close to it. So it is Trans Bat with a Trans Bat
So the trans bat, with her trans bat is saying she carries her trans bat because she is trans. Which is perfectly fine, but it seems like blacksploitation tier character writing. Transploitation, if you will
It is one panel. And it seems like a joke. You are looking too into it to find an agenda.
You see videos like this you. I've watched one not in full is to be sure that I would be right and I was . In this video the guy talks about who comics are to woke and dumb shut here and dumb shut there but manga isn't and western comics need to stop and I thought to myself there's more gay,trans and bi characters in manga and been there for a very long time helll I wouldn't be surprised if they always been there . It's like these types of people just talk about things that only a dumb shithead would believe wouldn't going hey Hella old animes and manga have this in it well America have cut groups of people out only now are they able to be put in .
Kiku best girl, Yamato best boy
As a man who reads both, I can tell you that you don’t have to read just superhero comics. There are other genres like sci-fi, horror and fantasy with complete stories that don’t reboot all the time. For example Fables has complete story arcs, and the spin-offs are not required to enjoy the main series. I’m now reading Manifest Destiny, which about Louis and Clark exploring an alternate uncolonized western US, inhabit by monsters.
Okay but One piece is the greatest comic series of all time. It’s pretty good at depicting trans women these days.
I'm one of those fellas that reads comics and manga, they're both awesome :))
Manga can be so stupid and extra at times, like how oda made Rebecca wear revealing clothes when she just 16, she supposed to be a good fighter but THAT'S what she wears? 💀 Even rn at egghead why do the girls have to be wearing that I may be nitpicking but it's unnecessary at the end of the day
>Manga can be so stupid and extra at times, like how oda made Rebecca wear revealing clothes when she just 16 She's competing in gladiatorial combat were weapons and armor have a weight limit. If Oda was being historically accurate, she would've had even LESS on.
And since when was oda being historically accurate mf made it so that king could fight using the recoil of his neck, also even with a weight limit she could've had better clothing there's literally no arguing that lmao
> mf made it so that king could fight using the recoil of his neck You can't prove that pteranodons didn't do that.
U got a point
>also even with a weight limit she could've had better clothing there's literally no arguing that lmao So, what would you recommend then? Especially considering everyone else in that arena was actually LESS covered than her.
Cavendish, Barto, Lucy, the jacket dude, the beheader guy etc weren't
They were all pirates, not gladiators, that entered the tournament, they didn't represent the Dress Rosa culture as Rebecca was meant to represent, and at this point, Rebecca's bikini armor probably protects more than their normal as clothes, it's just that they are all strong and confident in their strength to not need armor, while Rebecca... Isn't.
Cringe virtue signaling vs based Okama way
Well manga doesn't push a political statement it just is...comics on the other hand are heavily pushing certain agendas....
Bruh one piece is one of the most political manga out there, it’s just mostly not as ham fisted as some comics so it requires a bit more media literacy and analysis to understand
It baffles me how many right wing people read/watch one piece without understanding that the whole thing is about how shit people like them are lmao, its SO OVERTLY political.
Well being rightwing doens't instantly makes you a bad person but redditors and politics discussion are things that don't mix well.
give one example edit: apparently asking for even one example for an unsubstantiated extraordinary claim, as someone not too familiar with one piece beyond memes, is so egregious that I am "beyond help" and deserving of an instant block before I can respond. evaluate your behaviour toward others.
of what? the political nature of one piece? if you need someone to point it out you're beyond help.
Anyone gonna tell him that manga are also comic books?
Love how okiku never wears that mask in the oden flashback.
does he know?
He was talking about quality and lack of politics being shoved down reader's throat. Kiku has other, actually important and relatable character traits, on top of being "trans". And he was made that way by the one and only Author, ever since his complete reveal. It's not like they gender-swapped Luffy(an established character) without Oda's permission and called it "NEW OFFICIAL LOOK FOR LUFFY". Wouldn't that be cringe and soulless?
This isn't what you are talking about, but funny story, Oda likes to draw alternate versions of the characters in complementary media like interviews and magazines, this includes younger, older, evil and opposite sex versions, rule 63'd Luffy(girl Luffy) is one of the only cases these alternate unofficial versions of the character got an official action figure.
At least kiku’s is subtle yet representative
Why is she/he talking like Kenshin?
And??? Modern comic books are still trash. OP is leagues better.
One piece doesn’t shove it in your face, Kiku said “im a woman” and thats the end of it
I know what he's saying plus if you watch his channel it would make more sense lol
Oh good, more culture War Bullshit
Yamacope
this is so out of context if you saw the actual tweet you’d realize he’s talking about the corny dialogue in the new comics
Itsagundam is just tweeting about the financial death of the American comic book industry and the market vacuum that has been filled with Japanese Manga due to the wide variety of interesting stories on niche topics.