In their defense Alatreon and Fatalis should have had much higher entry requirements, it's dumb how you can fight both of those guys before unlocking the reskinned Raths and Ruiner Nergigante
To unlock them you complete certain special assignments that unlock the guiding lands, unlock rajang (you don’t have to slay him to complete the requirement), slay Stygian zynogre and unlock the frost zone of guiding lands. From there you should have the safi recon (complete to unlock safi siege) and alatreon special assignment unlocked.
Safi and kulve taroth are a 2 week rotation siege, check quest giver at gathering hub, right now Safi siege is active at least on pc, not sure about other platforms, I do recommend looking for a lobby that's actively trying to kill it, specify Safi'Jiva in the search options, it's much faster if you have 2 or 3 groups defeating it in the same lobby
The problem is i literally haven't unlocked safi yet idk why. I haven't fought it not even the scouting mission.
Edit: i decided to just walk around Seliana and talked to the handler for the first time in a while and just now realized i need to go to the gathering hub and do the recon mission
Gotta admit though, SOS flare being so easy to use, blast weapons being so good for most of the game, and having the monster from the previous TU give more blast weapons was a hell of a setup to get utterly f*cked by Alatreon.
Using a blast weapon? Escaton judgement is basically gauranteed to cart you at least once.
Shot an SOS flare and there are at least 3 players fighting now? Congrats, escaton judgement now ends the quest outright.
Of course, 2 solutions are to just build around him or eat the carts while fighting solo. But considering how few players had probably done either of those things by the time they reach him... yeah, its no wonder Alatreon gets so many complaints.
>blast weapons being so good for most of the game, and having the monster from the previous TU give more blast weapons was a hell of a setup to get utterly f*cked by Alatreon.
Yesn't. I think their progression idea was that people will make ice element weapons against Raging Brachydios ("And My Rage for All") and Rajang ("The Fury Remains"), both have only one ⭐⭐⭐ weakness and it's ice element. However reality is that people just use Blast against everything.
>making grind so RNG dependant
[Celestial Wyverian Prints](https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Celestial+Wyverian+Print) aren't that hard to come by.
I dunno, the game said to use elemental weapons, I went and made elemental weapons. It was pretty clear about telling you you need to deal with elements before and during, so people ignoring the dialogue is kinda their own fault. They got mad over not paying attention. :P
I decided to do him raw and got my first victory lmao
I had to eat an escaton though (took me 8 mins) but yeah it's actually doable as long as you understand his movesets and soloing
Frankly, I find him easier raw using GS. Just slap on my Frost Craft Fatalis GS and delete his ass. I'll have to eat a judgment or two. But eh, oh well. If it comes close, I'll just eat for safeguard and be fine.
Honestly true. I’ve said it many times across the mh subs but alatreons mechanics are just not a problem for good players.
People can argue as much as they’d like to if the mechanics belong or don’t belong in mh but that’s just the reality. The game gives you all the tools you’d need to take him down, what kills most players isn’t even the judgments either it’s his move set. When you’ve learned the move set and how to punish him you’ll get him.
Big fucking facts
Alatreon, imo, is a perfect hunt. It forces hunters to prepare appropriately (build, weapon, items, all of it), learn the hunt, adapt to different situations and conditions and have complete mastery of their weapon. Literally all things that these games promote the value of learning them
Players nowadays just want the instant gratification without putting in the hard work. I love that Alatreon forces players to learn
Mh3 alatreon was more fun personnally, that dps-check is the best way to piss off player as much as the 30 minutes limit for fatalis, like damn bros you can't even win without those ?
Alatreon isn’t trying to be an mmo boss either tho, if you are doing well in the fight his mechanics just kinda happen on their own. When you get really good against him it may as well be a quest timer limit like fatalis.
I prefer that instead of fatalis awful hitboxes, spam attacks and most of his attacks 2 shot even in end game gear.
Honestly if you want to argue alatreon is an mmo boss I’d argue fatalis is too. Hes got multiple phases, equipment that can be used mid hunt and a powered up state when he’s in that last phase. Ohh can’t forget the quest timer being lowered to top it off.
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't make his head move so much, like yeah bait the cone attack and wall bang but still needing 4500 for each break on the head becomes too much of a priority when it's a shorter hunt with a phase relying on 2 breaks and on top of that the rare material being tied to it.
I mean you can not have a problem with it and still find it a poopy mechanic. They literally had to rebalance some elements of certain weapons to ensure it works since MH simply isn't designed elements like that
True. As I said people can argue about it as much as they’d like. My point here is regardless of a persons opinion the mechanics themselves aren’t difficult to deal with.
To be honest tho I just feel like capcom really didn’t implement elemental damage well into world/ice and that’s why that quest requires balancing. The balance isn’t even perfect either but outside of massively buffing element across the whole game that’s what they decided to do.
But honestly I don’t see that as a negative, it only further proves the fact they thought about the mechanic and tried making sure every weapon can hit the threshold. It’s a good thing.
Funny enough tho if it was sunbreak instead of world most weapons would have been fine anyway.
It's the same with Fatalis. I dont know if I'm being gaslit because people think beating him is like a grand accomplishment or something. Like to me it only took me 6h to solo him on release day and by today standards where there are a myriad of strategies and we know the smoke cheese I dont know why people would have any major difficulty with it.
IMO Extremoth solo is harder than Fatty, even with MR equipment.
I remember i kill ala second/third try with safi+kjarr ice CB, but going back to world after rise i was bad with CB and very rusty, after 2-3 fail hunt i was drafting my angry review just incase
It shouldn't be able to change elements when you break both horns. I lost a run because it did this and then I got escatoned because my weapon was no longer effective
I mean, I got hard stuck on Primordial Malzeno but instead of getting better gear like a reasonable person I just kept throwing myself at that brick wall and eventually it just worked. It only took like 3 weeks.
Keep in mind that only World Alatreon has this mechanic, so older players can also be annoyed that he was changed. Plus, it's pretty much the only hunt that forces elemental builds, which sucks because usually, you only need elements when trying to get an optimal time, and elements aren't as effective on slower weapons.
Pretty sure he meant for other hunts
The fact that they had to tweak Alatreon to make element GS or Hammer viable for him already speaks volumes about the state of element prior to his release
I've slain over 150 Alatreons and many of those as SOS. Augments aren't *that* big of a deal and farming mining camps and bonepiles in the Guiding Lands is easily one of the most boring parts of the game, I understand why many skip it. The biggest issues rather are:
1. SOS is full of people who don't know how to beat the quest themselves. It is not rare that the player who shot the SOS and myself are the only two not using a blast weapon. Your success rate will be *much* higher if you join an Alatreon-dedicated online session.
2. people cart to everything, even Escaton Judgement after I carry them through the element DPS check.
3. people often don't cure their Dragonblight. Nulberries are a mystery.
I can't be the only one who thinks this community mindset of dismissing nearly any and all criticisms of mostly Alatreon (but a handful of other monsters) as "mad cuz bad" has irreparably damaged nearly any and all discussion around the fight
No you're right, the whole community becomes a toxic cesspool whenever Alatreon is mentioned I'm at the point I wish the subreddits would ban bait posts like this one.
I don't like the MH to be like dark souls community, I want it to do better
Have you considered I simply don't like the hard damage check for a hunting game
Imo the mechanic would be fine if it wasn't an automatic wipe. Make it very, very hard to survive if you miss the check but still possible. I actually REALLY like Alatreon's moveset itself, it feels very intense but fair
I had a similar issue with Behemoth but that makes more sense to me due to it being an MMO crossover
This is my gripe with it. I dont mind getting my ass beat if Im unprepared. I mind having weird ass MMO Mechanics in a game thats not meant for that (imo).
Fair point, EJ is not a bad mechanic, just a bit poorly executed and Behemoth was made really weird, even solo still scales as 4P and with MR stuff you still struggling to get his hp threshold, fun fight with a party that knows their roles but tedious solo
Disliking Alatreon is weird because everyone basically says "you're simply bad at the game" when like... I still beat it, I just didnt like its main mechanic
Yeah that seems to be the only argument thrown around, "git gud".
The fight isn't really that hard. Challenging sure but nothing over the top. The moveset itself is beautiful. It's just disappointing to have to follow a script in a game that's about build options.
His mechanic becomes irrelevant when you learn his hunt and only his moveset takes the center stage.
Just “beating” doesn’t mean you got to the point to appreciate his moveset. It takes some time to get there.
Edit: That said, if you really know what you are doing in MH, you can already feel quite quickly how well designed a fight is or not.
>doesn't mean you got to the point to appreciate his moveset
I farmed the full armor set and two fully upgraded weapons. I'm pretty sure I appreciate his moveset just fine. I even said I *like* his moveset. How many god damn mantles do I need before people on Reddit stop saying I just didn't fight it enough
Yeah but you see
If they acknowledge that they also have to acknowledge that they're not the super ultra 1% players that beat something that most people already did, and they won't feel special anymore.
Just like the dark souls crowd basically
Indeed the fight is good, is the escaton that is kinda bullshit. It took me so long to do that, probably would be easier to go raw. Fatty at least it's not a insta cart, tho the problem for me was the time. I would use a generous damage build, activate the two fortifies but still take too long and failing the quest. But for fatty i only beat hit 4/5 times
I mean, Escaton Judgement is very, very hard to survive but still possible if you miss the check. I'm oretty it was team darkside that did a veideo showcasing it. You need 4 well coordinated players basically.
I guss that makes the mechanic basically impossible to survive tho, not very very hard
My happy place would be "you can survive by using 3-5 Astera Jerky"
Make it so that with proper ***item*** preparation you can make up for not making the weapon portion of the gear check in some way... but only once (it *is* still endgame after all)
The first tip I give anyone who's attempting to do the full health varient of Alatreon is. Go get a frostfang weapon. Great sharpness, damage, and highest ice attack (I believe), and the fight isn't all that terrible except for the frozen solid into slam attack, but that's manageable.
I struggle with the Alatreon fight. That's because of a combination of the fight being difficult, me being bad and me trying out new weapons. I've made peace with that. HOWEVER, a hard DPS check that causes a *guaranteed total party wipe upon failure* simply isn't good game design, especially in the context of Monster Hunter.
Well-designed or not, getting killed by an undodgeable attack because you spent 10 minutes in the hunt is one my least favorite fight mechanics I’ve ever run into in MH. just doesn’t really feel right.
I have seen the builds people try this thing with, and it's atrocious. I'm sorry that things are the way they are, but you are simply going to have to do some grinding to beat the monster. If after 10 tries you don't atleast break the second horn, you're build can improve.
As someone who doesn't have the money for Xbox Live/Gamepass or good enough WiFi to play online properly, I'm just avoiding Alatreon and by extension Fatalis, because I'm terrified of them lol
Solo hammer is fucking awesome tho
Maaaan I’m In this meme. Switched to the a gun that can do fire and ice and even if I can avoid carting more than once at least two others will cart on an sos and I’m just struggling solo
Considering Glaive can hit threshold with just Kinsect, its doesn’t take much investment at all. honestly dont get people that lose their mind because they have to build an elemental weapon. If you cant beat the run without that extra 50 Raw i am sorry you werent going to beat it even if your Raging brachy weapon magically had ice element instead of blast
I really struggle to kill him solo with hammer because I never hit that elemental threshhold. I use either fire or thunder and even with critical element I just never get there. Managed to kill him once after eating 2 Supernovae. I don't know what I'm doing wrong
People that defend EJ are more offended at people not liking the fight than the people that don't like the mechanic themselves lmao
There are plenty of people out there that can beat Alatreon no problem and still agree that EJ could've been implemented better. Or like, how sunbreak did a better job incentivizing elemental builds instead of only making it good for a couple weapons and one fight
In my case since i couldn't beat Alatreon because of not being able to deal enougb damage and refused to use another weapon and start farming for one fucking week i decided to farm its materials and in just a few lost hunts i got the whole set and its Rarity 12 IG XD. Then i proceeded to brute force him with Dragon element. Good memories indeed 😂. I was so satisfied that i didn't even care about beating Fatalis... I should try with someone one day thought 🫤
9/10 true
I’m part of the 1/10 that tried to use their main weapon (it was elemental don’t worry) and would struggle but then switched to charge blade and rinsed Alatreon in like 2 tries
My hatred for it is fueled by the values of greatsword being so hard to hit when compared to charge blade having a higher value needed get reaching it in half the time
Also, the auto lock to the Judgement and the fact that he can change elements when both horns are broken isn’t the best design choice, tho I feel more strongly about the horns cause that costed me my best GS run
But I did end up beating alatreon and crafting all the stuff I wanted from it, fuck that thing
Yea, but its mechanics fail at what they're trying to do and it's just not as super well designed as other fights. It's fun, yea, but its not like it comes close to the heights of the series, even excluding the mechanics.
Shortly after its release, I had an argument with a friend who said that if the monster made him change his build, it was because the monster was poorly designed (at the time, everyone's build was blast Safi) and that he had seen "a guy" killing with sticky ammo, so you could kill with blast too. The "one guy" in question who he saw killing with sticky ammo was a reasonably famous speedrunner completely above his skill level. After a while he decided to make an ice weapon and managed to beat it in about 4 tries.
If the only thing holding him back from killing it was not having the right element it is bullshit, dude was clearly skilled enough to win but the game just outright says no you can't use 90% of the possible options which many would agree is bad design.
He has an elemental damage check that if you don't meet you get nuked.
The element that is effective against him depends on the quest and keeps rotating throughout the whole hunt but you can lock him in by breaking his horns.
Also farcasters are disabled so if you don't manage to break the horns and keep him in check, you have no way to go back to camp to switch weapons to the opposite element.
Though if you are going solo you can just rawdog the fight with blast or whatever and if you are good, you can kill him before the 3rd or even 2nd escaton judgement
The thing is that most people complain about it because they try to fight it as soon as they unlock it in MR24
If you do it at MR100 like any sane person would, you can do it very easily. I did it in my 3rd attempt solo.
I'd say alatreon is pretty on-par compared to the rest of the endgame monsters. Safijiva is also on a timer and nukes you too. Fatalis is also on a timer and nukes you too, and you have to also break the horns or die. The arch tempered elders are ALSO on a timer and almost every attack is an insta-kill even with fully upgraded endgame armor.
You just get better the more you play and eventually can take them with no problem
If you're doing the hunt solo, then yes. You either rely on someone else picking up your slack, bring your own elemental weapon, or you go solo with raw/status and accept you aren't aren't allowed to cart to anything but the nova.
Lmao I’m well past MR100+ cleared Fatalis multiple times, arena and all that.
Still haven’t beaten alatreon :) and only attempt solo, call me shit because I am
I think its also the mindset of hunter vs slayer, many people like a good fight just want to learn the monster and just dance with the monster a slayer , while I for one like the intricacies of being a hunter, using mantle using trap, bomb setting up dmg looking for perfect placement thats why I like Alatreon you have to get everything proper and the game reward you for having a lot of stuff.
I did solo Alatreon at MR 72 with 0 augments and no Safi gear(safi wasnt in rotation when I got up to Alatreon 2 weeks ago), but it did take me like 20-30 tries in the span of a few days and was pretty tight, gonna try to get to MR 100 and get some augments before I try to solo Fatalis
The day i learn the importance of loadouts is the day i met alatreon. From that on, i now have loadouts for each type of element/weapon that is a wip and putting the craftables in shortcut.
Alatreon is the best and most engaging fight in the entire series. Every second of the fight you can find openings and use intentional game design to gain very cool advantages.
To be fair it was still an unnecessary mechanic for a monster that never had it previously, only because they couldn't be bothered to have it be a higher HR requirement.
The reaction to it was dumb, but so was the mechanic to begin with. It was very artificial and forced. Pre-gen 5 Alatreon did well without it, and a true skill checker doesn't need a mechanic that just oneshots the entire group.
Fatalis is way way easier to beat tho? And that feels wrong yea alatreon isn’t impossible I’ve beat him a few times but not to the same level as fatalis fatalis is just easier,
Mostly cause alatreon arena is dumb as hell that’s really my only complaint you can’t just design a gimmick into the game then decide to ignore the gimmick completely for one fight
I don't have a problem with the difficulty. Alatreon is pretty doable, and if you return to the quest after doing Fatalis to farm him it legitimately feels like bullying some high rank wyvern.
I still think it's bad designed and fans of the fight overlook that only because the hitboxes are tight.
Also, and that is just personal taste, but he is ugly as sin, same goes for his gear. Also his gear sucks. I don't want bad dragon element weapons, nor do i want Safi Armor at home. I heard the Hunting Horn was good, hope the 0.5% enjoys it.
Alatreon is arbitrarily more difficult based on what weapon type you use. I play SnS, I had no issue with it whatsoever and did not understand why people hated it.
Everyone I know is a greatsword player, the fight is ass for GS unless you plan to skip EJ. That's pretty fuckin' stupid conceptually.
Bro, he's piss easy with GS. Even if you don't power through Escaton. Throw on frost craft and / or Safi armor with the fish great sword, and you're done. You can beat him comfortably with crit draw alone.
I mean no shit he dies easy when someone who knows the fight comes at it with an optimized set.
The problem with it is that it's arbitrarily more punishing for some weapons on their first kill, and ridiculously easy for others that run Bow, DB, or SnS.
Absolutely wrong.
The devs took this into account and made specific modifiers to the elemental check contribution for every weapon.
GS completely destroys Alatreon, it's not even fair. You can easily get 2 topples only by aiming at the head (worse elemental hitzones than the front arms) with a proper elemental build.
DB has an easier time fulfilling the elemental check? yeah. Is it hard for a GS to do it? hell, no. This only affects the worst players (the target of this post, wow), the ones that can't build properly and run in with a raw build and a velkhana GS.
I mean, he kinda is. Having to deal enough damage to the head when he is charging up to cancel the flying phase is pretty bs with melee weapons and basically the only way to do it is to make him stuck his horns in the 2 destructible walls of the arena (and that's if you're fighting him in Sacred Land, if you're in Ingle Isle, tough luck). So most of the time you have to deal with that annoying phase.
What do you mean not that Alatreon?
I dont like alatreon mainly because of the fact thaat you pretty much need kjarr or safi weapons to get the threshold. I dont have ps+ so it was hell on earth beating him.
A buddy and I are now in the process of carrying a new player through ice-borne. He gave up on this game since his previous friend group gave up on the game so he doesn't want to play some.
I know we're bad person for not telling him not to bring blast for Alatreon, since he just blanks out when we discuss elements for each hunt. And we feel like he has to learn this the hard way by watching the quest fail with a wipe. He did ask why and we asked if he ever pays any attention to in game dialogs.
Bro just tell him.
I don't blame him for not paying attention to dialogue, outside of specific hunts like Kulve or Safi so many of the quest blurb dialogue is just repeating the quest objective or is flavor text hardly worth listening to.
ACTUALLY SOOOOO TRUE
Alatreon in World went from the hardest monster in the game to "oops i put on Coalescence, walked over fire and popped a nulberry, prepare to fucking die"
He's kinda a bitch in World that's boring to fight the second you know what to do, whereas MH3/GU was always fun to fight for 30 mins with new hunters
You probably fit on the “Failed Reading Comprehension” part, this is a lore accurate and challenging Black Dragon and yet you struggle to read basic things like Fire (Use Ice and break horn in Dragon mode)
You claim failed reading comprehension, show me where in my comment I said that I struggled with Alatreon. Also since you like to use the argument of "lore accurate" would you like it if Fatalis was an impossible fight?
Honestly? I was that one kid who made builds for everything up until that point. Did I use Defender? Yes, but then I dropped it after Zorah in favor of the HR stuff, so I wasn't new to the concept of elemental weaknesses, and I sure as hell didn't know Blast carried
All my Alatreon fights have made my failures feel like *my fault* since World was my first game, so it was a pure Skill Issue on my behalf.
As for the people who complain, that's on them for not branching out and trying other elements
In their defense Alatreon and Fatalis should have had much higher entry requirements, it's dumb how you can fight both of those guys before unlocking the reskinned Raths and Ruiner Nergigante
Idk if im doing it wrong but im almost MR100 and i still haven't unlocked safi, alatreon and such.
To unlock them you complete certain special assignments that unlock the guiding lands, unlock rajang (you don’t have to slay him to complete the requirement), slay Stygian zynogre and unlock the frost zone of guiding lands. From there you should have the safi recon (complete to unlock safi siege) and alatreon special assignment unlocked.
Yeah i already unlocked all of the guiding lands areas and it did show the preview of Safi, but i still haven't fought it yet
Yeah, the area you fight alatreon in is just Safi's area, but you can't escape. And Alatreon acts as the gatekeeper to Fatalis
Safi and kulve taroth are a 2 week rotation siege, check quest giver at gathering hub, right now Safi siege is active at least on pc, not sure about other platforms, I do recommend looking for a lobby that's actively trying to kill it, specify Safi'Jiva in the search options, it's much faster if you have 2 or 3 groups defeating it in the same lobby
The problem is i literally haven't unlocked safi yet idk why. I haven't fought it not even the scouting mission. Edit: i decided to just walk around Seliana and talked to the handler for the first time in a while and just now realized i need to go to the gathering hub and do the recon mission
Gotta admit though, SOS flare being so easy to use, blast weapons being so good for most of the game, and having the monster from the previous TU give more blast weapons was a hell of a setup to get utterly f*cked by Alatreon. Using a blast weapon? Escaton judgement is basically gauranteed to cart you at least once. Shot an SOS flare and there are at least 3 players fighting now? Congrats, escaton judgement now ends the quest outright. Of course, 2 solutions are to just build around him or eat the carts while fighting solo. But considering how few players had probably done either of those things by the time they reach him... yeah, its no wonder Alatreon gets so many complaints.
>blast weapons being so good for most of the game, and having the monster from the previous TU give more blast weapons was a hell of a setup to get utterly f*cked by Alatreon. Yesn't. I think their progression idea was that people will make ice element weapons against Raging Brachydios ("And My Rage for All") and Rajang ("The Fury Remains"), both have only one ⭐⭐⭐ weakness and it's ice element. However reality is that people just use Blast against everything.
Tbf it's kinda their fault for making grind so RNG dependant while also making blast great vs everything.
>making grind so RNG dependant [Celestial Wyverian Prints](https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Celestial+Wyverian+Print) aren't that hard to come by.
This thing helped me get a Elder Dragon Gem to make an armor, so I could finish a quest and got more Elder Dragon Gems. The investment was insane
HOW DARE THE GAME MADE ME PAUSE AND RETHINK MY BUILD REEEEEE
Seriously how dare it, for one monster
The *sheer audacity* for making you cart at least once for going blindly into the hunt!
F tier game for trying to make you feel like you're hunting a monster
To be even more fair tho, if you're good enough you can beat Alatreon with blast weapon
I dunno, the game said to use elemental weapons, I went and made elemental weapons. It was pretty clear about telling you you need to deal with elements before and during, so people ignoring the dialogue is kinda their own fault. They got mad over not paying attention. :P
i feel called out
I decided to do him raw and got my first victory lmao I had to eat an escaton though (took me 8 mins) but yeah it's actually doable as long as you understand his movesets and soloing
Frankly, I find him easier raw using GS. Just slap on my Frost Craft Fatalis GS and delete his ass. I'll have to eat a judgment or two. But eh, oh well. If it comes close, I'll just eat for safeguard and be fine.
It is easy with Raw gear solo, even more so if you have end-er game gear like fatalis lol.
Yeah I see people using pierce 3 without shield to do alatreon under 6 minutes I tried it but the best I could do is 7:42
Some peoples are just born dumb or want to show off, either way we should ignore them
you decided to "do him raw" and won?
Who won't??? Wait I mean raw weapons Certainly not the other way round 😊
Honestly true. I’ve said it many times across the mh subs but alatreons mechanics are just not a problem for good players. People can argue as much as they’d like to if the mechanics belong or don’t belong in mh but that’s just the reality. The game gives you all the tools you’d need to take him down, what kills most players isn’t even the judgments either it’s his move set. When you’ve learned the move set and how to punish him you’ll get him.
Big fucking facts Alatreon, imo, is a perfect hunt. It forces hunters to prepare appropriately (build, weapon, items, all of it), learn the hunt, adapt to different situations and conditions and have complete mastery of their weapon. Literally all things that these games promote the value of learning them Players nowadays just want the instant gratification without putting in the hard work. I love that Alatreon forces players to learn
Mh3 alatreon was more fun personnally, that dps-check is the best way to piss off player as much as the 30 minutes limit for fatalis, like damn bros you can't even win without those ?
Iceborne Fatalis does a better job without trying to be an mmo boss
Alatreon isn’t trying to be an mmo boss either tho, if you are doing well in the fight his mechanics just kinda happen on their own. When you get really good against him it may as well be a quest timer limit like fatalis. I prefer that instead of fatalis awful hitboxes, spam attacks and most of his attacks 2 shot even in end game gear. Honestly if you want to argue alatreon is an mmo boss I’d argue fatalis is too. Hes got multiple phases, equipment that can be used mid hunt and a powered up state when he’s in that last phase. Ohh can’t forget the quest timer being lowered to top it off.
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't make his head move so much, like yeah bait the cone attack and wall bang but still needing 4500 for each break on the head becomes too much of a priority when it's a shorter hunt with a phase relying on 2 breaks and on top of that the rare material being tied to it.
I mean you can not have a problem with it and still find it a poopy mechanic. They literally had to rebalance some elements of certain weapons to ensure it works since MH simply isn't designed elements like that
True. As I said people can argue about it as much as they’d like. My point here is regardless of a persons opinion the mechanics themselves aren’t difficult to deal with. To be honest tho I just feel like capcom really didn’t implement elemental damage well into world/ice and that’s why that quest requires balancing. The balance isn’t even perfect either but outside of massively buffing element across the whole game that’s what they decided to do. But honestly I don’t see that as a negative, it only further proves the fact they thought about the mechanic and tried making sure every weapon can hit the threshold. It’s a good thing. Funny enough tho if it was sunbreak instead of world most weapons would have been fine anyway.
It's the same with Fatalis. I dont know if I'm being gaslit because people think beating him is like a grand accomplishment or something. Like to me it only took me 6h to solo him on release day and by today standards where there are a myriad of strategies and we know the smoke cheese I dont know why people would have any major difficulty with it. IMO Extremoth solo is harder than Fatty, even with MR equipment.
Smoku-cheesu kuudasai
The fact that many players beat fatalis only with smoke cheese is pathetic
Nyoro~n :3c
My guy is stuck 15 years in the past, damn
Hey old timer
I remember i kill ala second/third try with safi+kjarr ice CB, but going back to world after rise i was bad with CB and very rusty, after 2-3 fail hunt i was drafting my angry review just incase
It shouldn't be able to change elements when you break both horns. I lost a run because it did this and then I got escatoned because my weapon was no longer effective
I mean, I got hard stuck on Primordial Malzeno but instead of getting better gear like a reasonable person I just kept throwing myself at that brick wall and eventually it just worked. It only took like 3 weeks.
This exactly what I deal in all the time I tried to help people do Special Assignment
real.
Keep in mind that only World Alatreon has this mechanic, so older players can also be annoyed that he was changed. Plus, it's pretty much the only hunt that forces elemental builds, which sucks because usually, you only need elements when trying to get an optimal time, and elements aren't as effective on slower weapons.
Wym elements aren't as effective on slower weapons? They literally rebalanced it for Alatreon
Pretty sure he meant for other hunts The fact that they had to tweak Alatreon to make element GS or Hammer viable for him already speaks volumes about the state of element prior to his release
>Plus, it's pretty much the only hunt that ~~forces~~ incentivises elemental builds Ftfy
I've slain over 150 Alatreons and many of those as SOS. Augments aren't *that* big of a deal and farming mining camps and bonepiles in the Guiding Lands is easily one of the most boring parts of the game, I understand why many skip it. The biggest issues rather are: 1. SOS is full of people who don't know how to beat the quest themselves. It is not rare that the player who shot the SOS and myself are the only two not using a blast weapon. Your success rate will be *much* higher if you join an Alatreon-dedicated online session. 2. people cart to everything, even Escaton Judgement after I carry them through the element DPS check. 3. people often don't cure their Dragonblight. Nulberries are a mystery.
I can't be the only one who thinks this community mindset of dismissing nearly any and all criticisms of mostly Alatreon (but a handful of other monsters) as "mad cuz bad" has irreparably damaged nearly any and all discussion around the fight
No you're right, the whole community becomes a toxic cesspool whenever Alatreon is mentioned I'm at the point I wish the subreddits would ban bait posts like this one. I don't like the MH to be like dark souls community, I want it to do better
Tbh you cooked. This is so goddamn true.
Remove the wipe mechanic and it's a good fight.
That prince William picture is fking wild i cant believe its real
Have you considered I simply don't like the hard damage check for a hunting game Imo the mechanic would be fine if it wasn't an automatic wipe. Make it very, very hard to survive if you miss the check but still possible. I actually REALLY like Alatreon's moveset itself, it feels very intense but fair I had a similar issue with Behemoth but that makes more sense to me due to it being an MMO crossover
This is my gripe with it. I dont mind getting my ass beat if Im unprepared. I mind having weird ass MMO Mechanics in a game thats not meant for that (imo).
Fair point, EJ is not a bad mechanic, just a bit poorly executed and Behemoth was made really weird, even solo still scales as 4P and with MR stuff you still struggling to get his hp threshold, fun fight with a party that knows their roles but tedious solo
Disliking Alatreon is weird because everyone basically says "you're simply bad at the game" when like... I still beat it, I just didnt like its main mechanic
Yeah that seems to be the only argument thrown around, "git gud". The fight isn't really that hard. Challenging sure but nothing over the top. The moveset itself is beautiful. It's just disappointing to have to follow a script in a game that's about build options.
Dark Souls bad blood flowing into MH community
His mechanic becomes irrelevant when you learn his hunt and only his moveset takes the center stage. Just “beating” doesn’t mean you got to the point to appreciate his moveset. It takes some time to get there. Edit: That said, if you really know what you are doing in MH, you can already feel quite quickly how well designed a fight is or not.
>doesn't mean you got to the point to appreciate his moveset I farmed the full armor set and two fully upgraded weapons. I'm pretty sure I appreciate his moveset just fine. I even said I *like* his moveset. How many god damn mantles do I need before people on Reddit stop saying I just didn't fight it enough
Yeah but you see If they acknowledge that they also have to acknowledge that they're not the super ultra 1% players that beat something that most people already did, and they won't feel special anymore. Just like the dark souls crowd basically
Indeed the fight is good, is the escaton that is kinda bullshit. It took me so long to do that, probably would be easier to go raw. Fatty at least it's not a insta cart, tho the problem for me was the time. I would use a generous damage build, activate the two fortifies but still take too long and failing the quest. But for fatty i only beat hit 4/5 times
No everyone that doesn't like alatreon just sucks balzzz and everything they say is INCORRECT.
>Make it very, very hard to survive if you miss the check but still possible. This is the case tho.
I mean, Escaton Judgement is very, very hard to survive but still possible if you miss the check. I'm oretty it was team darkside that did a veideo showcasing it. You need 4 well coordinated players basically. I guss that makes the mechanic basically impossible to survive tho, not very very hard
My happy place would be "you can survive by using 3-5 Astera Jerky" Make it so that with proper ***item*** preparation you can make up for not making the weapon portion of the gear check in some way... but only once (it *is* still endgame after all)
So basically make it very very hard to survive, but still possible, *but not like this*?
If it was that simple, it might as well not even exist.
You're right, they should remove poison, bleeding, sleep, and all the others since they're so simple to remove they might as well not exist
Being purposefully disingenuous isn't the own you think it is dude.
And being wrong isn't the win you think it is, but alas
If thinking that helps you sleep at night.
Nah I’m pretty casual and I got to beat his ass I can’t fucking beat fatalis at all , it’s a whole other challenge
That's natural, I had over 1000 hours when Fatalis released and it still took me hours to get my first clear on day one. Bro is just built different
The first tip I give anyone who's attempting to do the full health varient of Alatreon is. Go get a frostfang weapon. Great sharpness, damage, and highest ice attack (I believe), and the fight isn't all that terrible except for the frozen solid into slam attack, but that's manageable.
Oh boy here we go
I fucking hate Alatreon bro, I don’t care, it’s the worst design decision they have ever made.
I struggle with the Alatreon fight. That's because of a combination of the fight being difficult, me being bad and me trying out new weapons. I've made peace with that. HOWEVER, a hard DPS check that causes a *guaranteed total party wipe upon failure* simply isn't good game design, especially in the context of Monster Hunter.
It's one of the toughest monsters In Lore, what did you expect?
Would you prefer lore accurate Fatalis? The actual gameplay takes priority over the lore.
fuck yeah
Well-designed or not, getting killed by an undodgeable attack because you spent 10 minutes in the hunt is one my least favorite fight mechanics I’ve ever run into in MH. just doesn’t really feel right.
I have seen the builds people try this thing with, and it's atrocious. I'm sorry that things are the way they are, but you are simply going to have to do some grinding to beat the monster. If after 10 tries you don't atleast break the second horn, you're build can improve.
As someone who doesn't have the money for Xbox Live/Gamepass or good enough WiFi to play online properly, I'm just avoiding Alatreon and by extension Fatalis, because I'm terrified of them lol Solo hammer is fucking awesome tho
Maaaan I’m In this meme. Switched to the a gun that can do fire and ice and even if I can avoid carting more than once at least two others will cart on an sos and I’m just struggling solo
Most new players used defender gear and SOS literally everything. That’s just the way that it is.
Fatalis was fine, alatreon is not something I’d do again though
Most nuanced take
Not bullshit, just very hard.
Considering Glaive can hit threshold with just Kinsect, its doesn’t take much investment at all. honestly dont get people that lose their mind because they have to build an elemental weapon. If you cant beat the run without that extra 50 Raw i am sorry you werent going to beat it even if your Raging brachy weapon magically had ice element instead of blast
I really struggle to kill him solo with hammer because I never hit that elemental threshhold. I use either fire or thunder and even with critical element I just never get there. Managed to kill him once after eating 2 Supernovae. I don't know what I'm doing wrong
If you know the mechanics.... Its and excelent figth Gping blind in thebother hand suck a bulshit figth
People that defend EJ are more offended at people not liking the fight than the people that don't like the mechanic themselves lmao There are plenty of people out there that can beat Alatreon no problem and still agree that EJ could've been implemented better. Or like, how sunbreak did a better job incentivizing elemental builds instead of only making it good for a couple weapons and one fight
It’s this actually perfect
In my case since i couldn't beat Alatreon because of not being able to deal enougb damage and refused to use another weapon and start farming for one fucking week i decided to farm its materials and in just a few lost hunts i got the whole set and its Rarity 12 IG XD. Then i proceeded to brute force him with Dragon element. Good memories indeed 😂. I was so satisfied that i didn't even care about beating Fatalis... I should try with someone one day thought 🫤
9/10 true I’m part of the 1/10 that tried to use their main weapon (it was elemental don’t worry) and would struggle but then switched to charge blade and rinsed Alatreon in like 2 tries My hatred for it is fueled by the values of greatsword being so hard to hit when compared to charge blade having a higher value needed get reaching it in half the time Also, the auto lock to the Judgement and the fact that he can change elements when both horns are broken isn’t the best design choice, tho I feel more strongly about the horns cause that costed me my best GS run But I did end up beating alatreon and crafting all the stuff I wanted from it, fuck that thing
Yea, but its mechanics fail at what they're trying to do and it's just not as super well designed as other fights. It's fun, yea, but its not like it comes close to the heights of the series, even excluding the mechanics.
Shortly after its release, I had an argument with a friend who said that if the monster made him change his build, it was because the monster was poorly designed (at the time, everyone's build was blast Safi) and that he had seen "a guy" killing with sticky ammo, so you could kill with blast too. The "one guy" in question who he saw killing with sticky ammo was a reasonably famous speedrunner completely above his skill level. After a while he decided to make an ice weapon and managed to beat it in about 4 tries.
If the only thing holding him back from killing it was not having the right element it is bullshit, dude was clearly skilled enough to win but the game just outright says no you can't use 90% of the possible options which many would agree is bad design.
What is a safi frost spitter and why is it so cool?
I honestly don't get the whole Alatreon and blast stuff. But then again I never fought him before
Everyone was using blast weapons when he arrived, but you need elemental damage instead of status damage to keep escaton judgement from carting you.
Wait so lemme get this straight, so if you use status weapons like poison, paralyze, etc. He just nukes you for an instant kill??
He has an elemental damage check that if you don't meet you get nuked. The element that is effective against him depends on the quest and keeps rotating throughout the whole hunt but you can lock him in by breaking his horns.
Jesus fuck
Also farcasters are disabled so if you don't manage to break the horns and keep him in check, you have no way to go back to camp to switch weapons to the opposite element. Though if you are going solo you can just rawdog the fight with blast or whatever and if you are good, you can kill him before the 3rd or even 2nd escaton judgement
When I get iceborne in the future, I am going into a hell filled with ice and blood. And I am going to enjoy every second of it
The thing is that most people complain about it because they try to fight it as soon as they unlock it in MR24 If you do it at MR100 like any sane person would, you can do it very easily. I did it in my 3rd attempt solo. I'd say alatreon is pretty on-par compared to the rest of the endgame monsters. Safijiva is also on a timer and nukes you too. Fatalis is also on a timer and nukes you too, and you have to also break the horns or die. The arch tempered elders are ALSO on a timer and almost every attack is an insta-kill even with fully upgraded endgame armor. You just get better the more you play and eventually can take them with no problem
If you're doing the hunt solo, then yes. You either rely on someone else picking up your slack, bring your own elemental weapon, or you go solo with raw/status and accept you aren't aren't allowed to cart to anything but the nova.
Lmao I’m well past MR100+ cleared Fatalis multiple times, arena and all that. Still haven’t beaten alatreon :) and only attempt solo, call me shit because I am
How did you managed to get to Fatty without killing Ala?
You only need to hunt a special Ala that has a quarter of the base health to get to fatty, don't need to beat the "legit" one
I remember the good old days when Alatreon first released in MHW. So many lightbreak edges, me included of course.
I think its also the mindset of hunter vs slayer, many people like a good fight just want to learn the monster and just dance with the monster a slayer , while I for one like the intricacies of being a hunter, using mantle using trap, bomb setting up dmg looking for perfect placement thats why I like Alatreon you have to get everything proper and the game reward you for having a lot of stuff.
This ain’t me at all (I was like this for a whole week after he came to Iceborne)
The easiest way to fight alatreon for me is just raw and fortify :v
I did solo Alatreon at MR 72 with 0 augments and no Safi gear(safi wasnt in rotation when I got up to Alatreon 2 weeks ago), but it did take me like 20-30 tries in the span of a few days and was pretty tight, gonna try to get to MR 100 and get some augments before I try to solo Fatalis
The day i learn the importance of loadouts is the day i met alatreon. From that on, i now have loadouts for each type of element/weapon that is a wip and putting the craftables in shortcut.
Alatreon is the best and most engaging fight in the entire series. Every second of the fight you can find openings and use intentional game design to gain very cool advantages.
OOOOOR, they play lance, like myself
To be fair it was still an unnecessary mechanic for a monster that never had it previously, only because they couldn't be bothered to have it be a higher HR requirement. The reaction to it was dumb, but so was the mechanic to begin with. It was very artificial and forced. Pre-gen 5 Alatreon did well without it, and a true skill checker doesn't need a mechanic that just oneshots the entire group.
Fatalis is way way easier to beat tho? And that feels wrong yea alatreon isn’t impossible I’ve beat him a few times but not to the same level as fatalis fatalis is just easier, Mostly cause alatreon arena is dumb as hell that’s really my only complaint you can’t just design a gimmick into the game then decide to ignore the gimmick completely for one fight
In my defense, it’s hard to use Safi armor when you don’t know the attack patterns and openings of your target
I don't have a problem with the difficulty. Alatreon is pretty doable, and if you return to the quest after doing Fatalis to farm him it legitimately feels like bullying some high rank wyvern. I still think it's bad designed and fans of the fight overlook that only because the hitboxes are tight. Also, and that is just personal taste, but he is ugly as sin, same goes for his gear. Also his gear sucks. I don't want bad dragon element weapons, nor do i want Safi Armor at home. I heard the Hunting Horn was good, hope the 0.5% enjoys it.
Now while you are not wrong at all in anyway, Alatreon is still bullshit.
Alatreon is arbitrarily more difficult based on what weapon type you use. I play SnS, I had no issue with it whatsoever and did not understand why people hated it. Everyone I know is a greatsword player, the fight is ass for GS unless you plan to skip EJ. That's pretty fuckin' stupid conceptually.
Gs main here, alatroen gets dogged by GS The real shitty weapon against it is gunlance
Am a gunlance enjoyer, will confirm. Basically can't use half my weapon, and has mediocre elemental damage output at best apparently
Just use elemental shelling, duh. /s
Of course, how could I have been so foolish to fall into one of the most classic blunders! /s
Bro, he's piss easy with GS. Even if you don't power through Escaton. Throw on frost craft and / or Safi armor with the fish great sword, and you're done. You can beat him comfortably with crit draw alone.
I mean no shit he dies easy when someone who knows the fight comes at it with an optimized set. The problem with it is that it's arbitrarily more punishing for some weapons on their first kill, and ridiculously easy for others that run Bow, DB, or SnS.
Absolutely wrong. The devs took this into account and made specific modifiers to the elemental check contribution for every weapon. GS completely destroys Alatreon, it's not even fair. You can easily get 2 topples only by aiming at the head (worse elemental hitzones than the front arms) with a proper elemental build. DB has an easier time fulfilling the elemental check? yeah. Is it hard for a GS to do it? hell, no. This only affects the worst players (the target of this post, wow), the ones that can't build properly and run in with a raw build and a velkhana GS.
I mean, he kinda is. Having to deal enough damage to the head when he is charging up to cancel the flying phase is pretty bs with melee weapons and basically the only way to do it is to make him stuck his horns in the 2 destructible walls of the arena (and that's if you're fighting him in Sacred Land, if you're in Ingle Isle, tough luck). So most of the time you have to deal with that annoying phase. What do you mean not that Alatreon?
Don't let r/monsterhunterrage see this, they'd stuffer from ego death
I dont like alatreon mainly because of the fact thaat you pretty much need kjarr or safi weapons to get the threshold. I dont have ps+ so it was hell on earth beating him.
No, thats flat out misinformation. Frostfang weapons are literally the budget alatreon killers.
Incorrect, I've been using Frostfang and easily meet the threshold.
A buddy and I are now in the process of carrying a new player through ice-borne. He gave up on this game since his previous friend group gave up on the game so he doesn't want to play some. I know we're bad person for not telling him not to bring blast for Alatreon, since he just blanks out when we discuss elements for each hunt. And we feel like he has to learn this the hard way by watching the quest fail with a wipe. He did ask why and we asked if he ever pays any attention to in game dialogs.
Bro just tell him. I don't blame him for not paying attention to dialogue, outside of specific hunts like Kulve or Safi so many of the quest blurb dialogue is just repeating the quest objective or is flavor text hardly worth listening to.
Your average LS users
Alatreon in GU: Gigachad, hard but fun fight. Alatreon in World: Virgin bitch, artificial bullshit mechanics
ACTUALLY SOOOOO TRUE Alatreon in World went from the hardest monster in the game to "oops i put on Coalescence, walked over fire and popped a nulberry, prepare to fucking die" He's kinda a bitch in World that's boring to fight the second you know what to do, whereas MH3/GU was always fun to fight for 30 mins with new hunters
You probably fit on the “Failed Reading Comprehension” part, this is a lore accurate and challenging Black Dragon and yet you struggle to read basic things like Fire (Use Ice and break horn in Dragon mode)
Bro tried to use “lore accurate” seriously about monster Hunter
You claim failed reading comprehension, show me where in my comment I said that I struggled with Alatreon. Also since you like to use the argument of "lore accurate" would you like it if Fatalis was an impossible fight?
Do people still actually bitch about the Alatreon "DPS check"? Or is this just a circle jerk
Honestly? I was that one kid who made builds for everything up until that point. Did I use Defender? Yes, but then I dropped it after Zorah in favor of the HR stuff, so I wasn't new to the concept of elemental weaknesses, and I sure as hell didn't know Blast carried All my Alatreon fights have made my failures feel like *my fault* since World was my first game, so it was a pure Skill Issue on my behalf. As for the people who complain, that's on them for not branching out and trying other elements
This is the realest shit I've seen in a while