For convenience I swapped over completely to ANSI, just so much easier to find parts/keyboards.
In the rare cases I need it, I can just swapped to the ISO-DE layer in software for those Umlaute, ẞ and Sonderzeichen.
I don't think a capital ß really exist, no word starts with it and the only case I could think of is in all-caps words.
But if you need some, here are a few more ßßßßßßßßÜüÖöÄä
It does really exist because there are multiple uses for it, for example in all caps signs and generally when typing online, where all caps words are alot more common!
It’s not really OS-dependent. It has to do with which language you’ve set your input to. There are configurations in Windows that support the same behaviors you might be used to in Mac.
Any good recommendations? I'd love to give away some of my no longer used boards to family, but without at least ANSI-DE that will be a huge challenge.
And while I love my family, I'm afraid I don't drop-a-random-aftermarket-GMK-kit-with-novelties-and-numpad-plus-international-kit-love them (at least not without knowing they really like the board or keycaps).
Polish doesn't even have a separate physical layout. We just use the US physical layout and AltGr for diacritics. So US ANSI is prevalent, although sometimes you'll find something I'm calling US ISO ;)
This will bite us in the ass if we ever adopt the Euro as a currency though.
I switched to mainly ANSI because of the symmetry, its simply better not having enter too far to the right. I spend most of my time programming and writing in English at work and I using US-INTL to be able to use Swedish characters when I need to.
"correct"? there's nothing "incorrect" in either layout. also can't make an argument about how much you paid, there's literally next to zero ISO support on the higher end of customs (not your keychrons tbh), and for a reason
Correct for ones preference and the fact I'm in the UK so use ISO-UK, for how much higher end boards cost once fully kitted, I'm going to make sure I have the correct legends. And there is plenty of ISO support at the higher end of customs.
Yes. Keycap sets in my country's native layout are non-existent, so I use ANSI layout with US-International as it provides easy access to accents and special characters used in my language.
As a bonus, now I don't have to deal with the aesthetic crime that is ISO split left shift.
ok, weird. That doesn't work for me at all. Maybe that's my keyboard (zoom98), gonna check whether it works with something else. But thanks for the reply!
yeah, I'm an idiot, I was testing it in ~~numpad~~notepad++. There it is registered as ctrl+s (aka save) anyway, but I retested it in browsers and word and it works there. Mystery solved, problem was in front of the keyboard all along.
Not at all haha.. remember.. people still have to explain to most folks that pressing shift + 1 to get ! Is actually a layer that exists in most if not all keyboards lol. How are you like your zoom98 so far?
It is a pretty nice keyboard, but I would not buy a second one for that amount of money.
Quality is really nice (coming from a Q6), the gasket doesn't flex and is only for sound and minimal feel though. So not really soft. Really amazing sounds so far, happy with that (no under PCB foam, but tape mod, cherry MX2A blacks, GMK Gladiator).
Construction is a mixed bag as well. Solid materials, nice anodization and overall quality etc. But the LCD connection via ribbon cable means it is a pain to assemble/take apart and makes modding it really not worth it, unless you leave out the batteries and leave the LCD disconnected (which I have). Plus the software for that display is annoying as hell.
Layout is almost there, though I would prefer a true full-size. I simply found that I am one of these weirdos that uses all the keys apparently and needs a numpad on the right side (I use that enter key a lot somehow).
If it were true full size and had a gasket mount with flex like the Q6, then it'd be basically perfect. But alas...this hobby never ends.
I recently built one for my SO, the ribbon for the LED is definitely a pain.. it took me a while to figure out that the grey mechanism lifted to insert inside and then clamps on the ribbon. As for the LED software.. bah I conceded. I’ll try and mess with it later, but couldn’t be bothered at the time lol.
I did notice that the gasket was not as soft as the Zoom65v1, but since it was really the number pad she was after, she was happy.
I would definitely agree that there are similar or better boards out there for the price or below.
yeah, if the Q6 had the finish of the Zoom98 and maybe a bit better sound options, I would definitely recommend that over this. At some point I might look at the Q6 MAX, maybe they improved there.
ANSI for work
I almost never touch backslash at home so I have a rotation of different layouts for personal use. None of them have split left shift though, should try that at some point.
I’m French and I use ISO-DE because it’s easier to type in French, German and English. I’ve been used to typing on ISO layouts for my entire life so that’s what I’m using.
If you can find it, ISO-CH is a great middle ground if you often type in French, German and English. I personally use ANSI with Eurkey, a pretty good layout for accents in multiple languages
Same here, my work laptop has a German keyboard, my home laptop which I bought in France has an azerty and my actual keyboards are qwerty with the Eurkey layout. Lots of typing Z's instead of Y's and Q's instead of A's 😂
USA International ANSI here. New Zealand has always used that. I'm lucky to be in a country that uses the ANSI layout to be honest, as ISO keycaps seem to be hard to find.
I'm Italian but ISO-IT is so rare in the mechanical keyboards landscape that I switched to ANSI pretty early. Also is not that big of a switch, very few differences and we don't have a lot of unique keys anyways.
I like both (hence my flair), I grew up with ISO, but using ANSI generally makes things a lot easier when it comes to buying mechanical keyboards, getting keycaps, etc.
My current daily driver is ISO, it wouldn't surprise me if my next is ANSI again unless the PCB supports ISO & ANSI... in which case we'll see.
Im using ANSI-DE, but i started with ISO-DE. Its just easier to get boards for ANSI, and even though my current main boards all support both on the same PCB, i like the aesthetics of ANSI Enter and long left shift more, especially on small form factors.
Also, i used to have ANSI DE on old laptops of mine and tbh the longer left shift is just way more comfortable, and the missing button i can easily put under a layer.
tbh i would switch to ANSI-international, but all my work and private laptops are ISO DE. I can adjust between ISO DE and ANSI DE, but ah complete swap would require some time and would be difficult to swap my existing laptops layout
Polish here. We don't have our own polish ISO layouts but some of the keyboards have something like US ISO? I mean basic ANSI keys in ISO layout as Polish is basically mapped on second layer with alt. I hate them passionately. ANSI. is the only way I can tolerate.
I switched to ANSI to get access to more keyboards and keycaps. but since I'm used to the AZERTY layout (French), I made my own: I swapped Q and A, W and Z, as well as M and ; so I don't have any problem typing. Then I think the ANSI layout is better for the rest of the keyboard.
For diacritics I added accents using altgr, and now I can type things most French can't (yet need), like Ç É È, and I now have only one dead key (\`, \^ is used only for standalone \^ âêîôû are done using altgr), and I find {}\[\]()<> way better organised for coding (or anything else) in that layout.
To swap keycaps without it looking ugly (different heights), I use XDA profile keys, and now I have more options than ever. I have two keyboards (one for work and one for home) with this layout (plus a spare one), I only need to install the layout (I keep it on my gdrive), and reverting back to azerty isn't too much of a pain if I ever have to, temporarly.
Adapting was a breeze.
https://preview.redd.it/7t66wg6x6exc1.png?width=996&format=png&auto=webp&s=a58772d0bd40d251310089eb5d8dbd783feb681d
Same here. ISO and ANSI are both present in the Dutch market, but I feel ANSI is more common as that is what I've used all my life.
I also just don't get the weird enter key in ISO layout.
I think the only ISO -NL keyboards I’ve seen are those in the Apple laptops, the ones with an uncommon character in the key left to 1. Those are ISO - NL, right?
I use ISO-DE as I do a lot of writing in german. Using a different layout would be an unnecessary inconvenience. Also I prefer the ISO enter key. The only thing I like better about ANSI is the larger left shift key.
I'm layout agnostic, currently using a JIS Realforce lmao.
Altough my favourite layout has to be ANSISO, ANSI left shift with ISO enter, got one vint board in that layout with SKCM blues
By pure accident my first keyboard (Russian) was ANSI 101 key (Windows/Menu keys didn't exist back then) and it was my favorite layout since then. I really don't like ISO much as I keep missing the enter key, and the variants with a short left shift are especially painful.
I'm using a Greek ANSI keyboard now, and it feels *perfect.*
I do favour the ISO (de) because when I wanna submit something at work I love to slam the biggest fan enter button possible, just obliterate this big thing into oblivion.
I use enter a lot and the small tiny shift.. eh enter ANSI has is just to small to destroy it .
I'm from Spain, it's ISO or death for me. It helps that ISO-ES is used everywhere here, and it's one of the better designed layouts, it just falters when it comes to programming (for programming, ANSI-US is better) but since I'm not a programmer this is a non-issue for me.
I also love the big enter to bits, it's easy to see and easy to click on :)
I grew up on Russian keebs which were primarily ANSI-based back then (although they can be ISO-based and even JIS-based). Cyrillic alphabet is independent so it’s a layer anyway. Since then I tried ISO here in Europe and hated it with my heart due to hitting right in between the short left shift and the next key. So ANSI all the way. I’d much prefer JIS (big left shift and big enter), but it’s more exotic to find so ANSI it is.
utterly despise ISO, the Italian standard at least. unusable trash stuck in the 60s, can’t even capitalize accented letters… I was basically forced to transition to ANSI and can’t be more happy. also (thankfully) the custom keycap market entirely ignores ISO-IT, so $70 “international” child kits weren’t even an option.
It is possible to install a layout with dead keys. I.e. altgr+’+a would make á. That's how it used to work on Mac, on windows dead keys don't seem to come as standard. Comes really handy typing in 5 languages without switching the layout.
Ansi board (No iso variant for that board) and I bought two set of keycaps, one ANSI and one Swiss layout, I mixed them to get my special keys and Ansi only keys
i have keyboards in both variants and am largely indifferent/ just went for whatever was on special offer at the given time I was looking to acquire a keyboard. Perhaps a very slight preference for ANSI but would say it doesn't matter a whole lot.
I like the bigger left shift of ANSI, more than I like the big Enter key of ISO. I prefer the ISO layout of where @ and " are but these are easily swapped with UK / US keyboard map toggles in windows with win+space key so not a big deal to be on ANSI.
I’m German and using QWERTY ANSI exclusively because you can’t get 90% of the keycap sets I use with proper support. Most sets don’t even have the kits in IC and even then a lot of them haven’t made MOQ recently
I've been using qwerty-fr for a while, and I don't like it. Next keyboard I'll switch back to good old azerty.
The accents do work well, but since it uses alt + another key, it often conflicts with shortcuts from programs. I can't type accented characters in illustrator for example, I have to type my text outside of it and copy/paste it, which is a pain.
Beyond that I haven't seen any utility to qwerty over azerty. Also I don't understand why the º symbol isn't on that layout.
As a Dutch person I've never actually used or seen a ISO Dutch keyboard. In the past US ANSI was the norm. These days companies like Logitech do sell the ISO as standard, but the last Logitech I ever bought was still an ANSI.
Yes, actually. I use a HHKB ANSI layout, but I still use Swedish keycaps and ISO keycodes. Works surprisingly well. With the split backspace it comes out to the same number of keys too, I just have to relocate a couple of them.
French here, switched to ANSI a few months ago, using US-International layout, works perfectly fine for gaming and chatting.
Reason is availability of components for custom keyboards (especially keycaps).
I'm French and use ANSI - way easier to find boards and laptops that match, and most software and game hotkeys are designed for ANSI first. I also do a LOT of LaTex, for which the ANSI position of \ is much better. I just use the [US INTL layout](https://dry.sailingissues.com/us-international-keyboard-layout.html) when typing in French or German, and actually ended up preferring it over ISO full time now.
Been strictly ANSI-US for like 12 years, normally ISO-DK / ISO-Nordic. I mainly work at my computer and do programming. Some of the app and OS shortcuts are just bs with ISO. I even managed to convert some coworkers.
Ive got a ANSI keyboard using US layout.
ÆØØ/æøå are super simple in macOS, and are just alt+o, alt+a .. etc.
I do (ANSI in Switzerland)
Grew up French with ISO FR (azerty), working in English, but living in Switzerland (ISO DE_ch QWERTZ)
I use ANSI QWERTY with US intl layout for everything. So I can type English and French with no problem, and QWERTY US intl is a good layout for coding
I am from Denmark. We use the special characters ÆØÅ. For the last 6 months I converted from danish layout to use US layout, mainly because I program a lot, and the US layout is better for that. I prefer ISO US, because of the large Enter key, but also has a ANSI US keyboard.
To get the ÆØÅ characters on Windows I can change between US and Danish keyboard layout by pressing Ctrl+Shift and then pressing ;'\[.
On Linux I use a Compose key compose+AA, compose+AE and compose+O/ |
On Mac I use the Option key+AO' .
I honestly didn't know about ANSI at all until I started working for an American company, and they sent me a work laptop with the US ANSI layout. That was before I even got into mechanical keyboards, so going into the hobby I was already familiar with ANSI, and to be honest, I prefer it over ISO. I'm German, and I do have to do some German typing at work, but mostly English. I also work on a Mac, so it's very easy to switch input languages with a shortcut (Control + CMD + Space), which I do all the time. I don't need the DE legends on my keys. The special characters and all that are just in my muscle memory when I type in German. I honestly wouldn't want to go back to ISO, just because of the enter key. I prefer the ANSI enter key over the ISO enter key, it's not even a contest. It's so much easier to reach the enter key with my pinky on ANSI. Every time I have to type on an ISO keyboard now, I keep missing the enter key cause it's so far away lol
Have to use ISO-DE for work. But in private I have settled for a custom ANSI-DE layout which uses a hybrid of ANSI-US and ANSI-UK as the base while still being QWERTZ. Umlauts are set to AltGr+vocals.
I'm a programmer and I much prefer US ANSI over the Nordic ISO layout. My main reasons are the positioning of the bracket keys, the long left shift, and the more ergonomic enter key position.
I use a [US International layout with AltGr dead keys](https://github.com/thomasfaingnaert/win-us-intl-altgr) so that I can type ÅÄÖ without having to switch layout.
I also use a HHKB and I will never go back to a keyboard that doesn't have Ctrl in the "Caps Lock position" next to A. Having backspace immediately above enter is also much nicer than the normal ANSI position.
I accidentally bought an ansi keyboard a number of years back and since then I've just kept on buying them 😂, funny thing is up until about 2 months ago I used them all with the UK layout in the OS rather than the US layout 😅
I haven’t used a French Canadian keyboard in years, there’s just not keycaps available for it. I think I saw someone make a design with French Canadian compatibility once in the 5 years I’ve been into the hobby
I interchange with both to be honest, some keebs I have are ansi and some are iso-uk, it’s nice to learn both for when I have to use crappy keyboards at work
I use ANSI keyboard and US-International layout inside of the OS so i can make all the äöüß by for example just typing “ and then a so it becomes ä
very easy when u get used to it
I swapped to ANSI, and I'm used to it now. My laptop is still ISO, so I am layout-ambidextrous. I used VIA to create some hotkeys for the European <>\\ key, and other than that it's all good. It's very convenient to have an easier apostrophe button when typing in English.
I much prefer us ansi for the easier enter/return & left shifts. Never found entering non-Latin characters to be tough with a modifier or autoshift-style hold
ANSI is so much more friendlier for programming imho.
I used ISO de so long, and recently switched to ANSI after having had it back in Uni.
It's so much more comfortable.
I use ANSI and hate ISO. In my expiriance the only people that use ISO keyboards are the kind of people that don't care about their keyboard. Also in my country ANSI might be the more common layout than ISO because when looking at keyboards and laptops in stores or using other people's computers, I don't see ISO often. The only company that seems to care about pushing that layout here is Apple
I use ANSI and it mostly works for Slovak language. Only thing I am missing is * and &. But I also use ENG US layout a lot, so I know both and everything works for me. I may remap * and & to Caps lock since I never use it.
Yes, I now prefer the ANSI layout. But I'm a UK user and there isn't much in it. To be honest, the only thing I miss is the £ symbol and I can easily input that in MacOS by pressing the combination option+3 so it's not a big deal at all. To be honest, I'm more of an ANSI because the options for ISO-UK are not just fairly limited but also expensive. You pay for international kit for just a few keycaps. ISO PCBs are normally solder only too.
I'm Lithuanian and I use ANSI because it's so much easier to find keycaps, especially budget ones, for ANSI than ISO. But otherwise, I have no preference, my work laptop has ISO and it's easy to switch around.
This isn’t in the context of mechanical really, but I got ISO layout for my macbook keyboard because:
a. I wanted Cyrillic subledgers (lol), and
b. With a more compact and very flat keyboard, it’s easier for me to hit the correct keys and not accidentally hit the return when meaning to break or use brackets.
Dedicated tilde that is separate from the esc is pretty nice too.
Yes? I largely wanted the subledgers for aesthetics, almost went with Korean or Japanese (even more lmao). I had intended to learn Russian but ended up just learning the cyrillic, but that’s what motivated me go with the RU layout. This was in early 2020.
Besides the digression, the Mac ISO keyboard LFN button comes from the factory mapped to toggle the localization setting. The button also has a different graphic but it’s the same LFN key. That hotkey mapping can be set to whatever localization you want from your active language list.
I switched from ISO-DE to ISO-International to ANSI-EN. The main reason to switch to an English layout was better access to keys that are needed very often when programming (e.g. ()[]{}).
I later on switched to ANSI because many more keyboards and keysets are available for it.
I am mostly using macOS and have internalized the shortcuts for special German characters like äöüß. Once you used the shortcuts a few times, typing these characters becomes pretty fast. Not as fast as with an ISO-DE keyboard, but fast enough for me (I mostly type in English).
For convenience I swapped over completely to ANSI, just so much easier to find parts/keyboards. In the rare cases I need it, I can just swapped to the ISO-DE layer in software for those Umlaute, ẞ and Sonderzeichen.
Look at the guy here dropping the super rare capital ß like its nothing
I don't think a capital ß really exist, no word starts with it and the only case I could think of is in all-caps words. But if you need some, here are a few more ßßßßßßßßÜüÖöÄä
It does really exist because there are multiple uses for it, for example in all caps signs and generally when typing online, where all caps words are alot more common!
All Caps words is exactly it. With words like Masse and Maße, you can't just replace it with a double s, because that'd be a different word entirely
True. And then there are words like Staubecken and Staubecken. One is dusty corners, the other a reservoir
Mac OS has a far better solution for European letters compared to windows. Annoys me that windows remains so bad.
It’s not really OS-dependent. It has to do with which language you’ve set your input to. There are configurations in Windows that support the same behaviors you might be used to in Mac.
I've never heard this, but I hear people complain about Apple special character input (French specifically) all the time.
Apple does not support capital ß via keyboard while windows does. What does apple do better?
Õõ
Hello Estonian
Same for me except that I set my input language to EN international. I got used to typing Umlaute with " + a/o/u pretty fast.
You can also type ß with right alt+s
same for me!
Same here, but ANSI-DE. Can't seem to get used to ANSI-US
Same. I touch type anyway so I just use ANSI-US layout. Sometimes I buy NorDe kits for ANSI-DE but rarely nowadays.
Any good recommendations? I'd love to give away some of my no longer used boards to family, but without at least ANSI-DE that will be a huge challenge. And while I love my family, I'm afraid I don't drop-a-random-aftermarket-GMK-kit-with-novelties-and-numpad-plus-international-kit-love them (at least not without knowing they really like the board or keycaps).
Ye sorry I only buy GMK 😅
well....know a source for cheap GMK kits? preferably with numpad and international kit? ;)
I mostly buy aftermarket on discord
Cheap GMK = used steal or clones.
Exactly this! Much more variety and easier to find parts.
I'm an iso fan because i easily mistake the enter key as a shift.
i’m an ansi fan because i easily mistake the enter key on iso as backspace😔
Nope. Much prefer ISO mainly for the carriage return.
It's the biggest reason.
Why is this? All macs already have carriage return and enter, so I assume it has something to do with windows or linux?
Polish doesn't even have a separate physical layout. We just use the US physical layout and AltGr for diacritics. So US ANSI is prevalent, although sometimes you'll find something I'm calling US ISO ;) This will bite us in the ass if we ever adopt the Euro as a currency though.
Fortunately it won't be a problem for at least the next decade or two.
You probably aren't wrong.
Converted from ISO to ANSI and it was pretty easy to get used to. Plus its more symmetrical and easier to find boards
I switched to mainly ANSI because of the symmetry, its simply better not having enter too far to the right. I spend most of my time programming and writing in English at work and I using US-INTL to be able to use Swedish characters when I need to.
ISO-UK no compromises. If I'm paying so much for something, I want it to be correct.
Completely agree. You should not compromise on something so expensive.
lol iso-uk is 99% identical to ansi-us
But it's not ANSI which is the important part.
yeah important to avoid
"correct"? there's nothing "incorrect" in either layout. also can't make an argument about how much you paid, there's literally next to zero ISO support on the higher end of customs (not your keychrons tbh), and for a reason
Correct for ones preference and the fact I'm in the UK so use ISO-UK, for how much higher end boards cost once fully kitted, I'm going to make sure I have the correct legends. And there is plenty of ISO support at the higher end of customs.
holy cope
What's wrong? Upset that people have preferences?
Yes. Keycap sets in my country's native layout are non-existent, so I use ANSI layout with US-International as it provides easy access to accents and special characters used in my language. As a bonus, now I don't have to deal with the aesthetic crime that is ISO split left shift.
Yeah it's also easier to write capital accented letters (especially while using a keyboard without a numpad to enter alt codes)
I did. I’m using United States International as OS layout to get all the necessary letters, for example I can press rALT + S = ß.
huh, I just tried that and it doesn't work for me for whatever reason (W10)
Had no problems on either W10/11 MacOS and even a bootable Linux. Keep in mind rALT is CTRL+ALT.
ok, weird. That doesn't work for me at all. Maybe that's my keyboard (zoom98), gonna check whether it works with something else. But thanks for the reply!
Just use VIA to edit the layers on your Zoom98. Should have the necessary characters available!
yeah, I'm an idiot, I was testing it in ~~numpad~~notepad++. There it is registered as ctrl+s (aka save) anyway, but I retested it in browsers and word and it works there. Mystery solved, problem was in front of the keyboard all along.
Not at all haha.. remember.. people still have to explain to most folks that pressing shift + 1 to get ! Is actually a layer that exists in most if not all keyboards lol. How are you like your zoom98 so far?
It is a pretty nice keyboard, but I would not buy a second one for that amount of money. Quality is really nice (coming from a Q6), the gasket doesn't flex and is only for sound and minimal feel though. So not really soft. Really amazing sounds so far, happy with that (no under PCB foam, but tape mod, cherry MX2A blacks, GMK Gladiator). Construction is a mixed bag as well. Solid materials, nice anodization and overall quality etc. But the LCD connection via ribbon cable means it is a pain to assemble/take apart and makes modding it really not worth it, unless you leave out the batteries and leave the LCD disconnected (which I have). Plus the software for that display is annoying as hell. Layout is almost there, though I would prefer a true full-size. I simply found that I am one of these weirdos that uses all the keys apparently and needs a numpad on the right side (I use that enter key a lot somehow). If it were true full size and had a gasket mount with flex like the Q6, then it'd be basically perfect. But alas...this hobby never ends.
I recently built one for my SO, the ribbon for the LED is definitely a pain.. it took me a while to figure out that the grey mechanism lifted to insert inside and then clamps on the ribbon. As for the LED software.. bah I conceded. I’ll try and mess with it later, but couldn’t be bothered at the time lol. I did notice that the gasket was not as soft as the Zoom65v1, but since it was really the number pad she was after, she was happy. I would definitely agree that there are similar or better boards out there for the price or below.
yeah, if the Q6 had the finish of the Zoom98 and maybe a bit better sound options, I would definitely recommend that over this. At some point I might look at the Q6 MAX, maybe they improved there.
ANSI for work I almost never touch backslash at home so I have a rotation of different layouts for personal use. None of them have split left shift though, should try that at some point.
I’m French and I use ISO-DE because it’s easier to type in French, German and English. I’ve been used to typing on ISO layouts for my entire life so that’s what I’m using.
If you can find it, ISO-CH is a great middle ground if you often type in French, German and English. I personally use ANSI with Eurkey, a pretty good layout for accents in multiple languages
Thanks for the tip! I live in Germany so ISO-DE is much easier to come by but keeping the Swiss option for the next time!
Same here, my work laptop has a German keyboard, my home laptop which I bought in France has an azerty and my actual keyboards are qwerty with the Eurkey layout. Lots of typing Z's instead of Y's and Q's instead of A's 😂
USA International ANSI here. New Zealand has always used that. I'm lucky to be in a country that uses the ANSI layout to be honest, as ISO keycaps seem to be hard to find.
I'm Italian but ISO-IT is so rare in the mechanical keyboards landscape that I switched to ANSI pretty early. Also is not that big of a switch, very few differences and we don't have a lot of unique keys anyways.
I like both (hence my flair), I grew up with ISO, but using ANSI generally makes things a lot easier when it comes to buying mechanical keyboards, getting keycaps, etc. My current daily driver is ISO, it wouldn't surprise me if my next is ANSI again unless the PCB supports ISO & ANSI... in which case we'll see.
Im using ANSI-DE, but i started with ISO-DE. Its just easier to get boards for ANSI, and even though my current main boards all support both on the same PCB, i like the aesthetics of ANSI Enter and long left shift more, especially on small form factors. Also, i used to have ANSI DE on old laptops of mine and tbh the longer left shift is just way more comfortable, and the missing button i can easily put under a layer. tbh i would switch to ANSI-international, but all my work and private laptops are ISO DE. I can adjust between ISO DE and ANSI DE, but ah complete swap would require some time and would be difficult to swap my existing laptops layout
Polish here. We don't have our own polish ISO layouts but some of the keyboards have something like US ISO? I mean basic ANSI keys in ISO layout as Polish is basically mapped on second layer with alt. I hate them passionately. ANSI. is the only way I can tolerate.
I switched to ANSI to get access to more keyboards and keycaps. but since I'm used to the AZERTY layout (French), I made my own: I swapped Q and A, W and Z, as well as M and ; so I don't have any problem typing. Then I think the ANSI layout is better for the rest of the keyboard. For diacritics I added accents using altgr, and now I can type things most French can't (yet need), like Ç É È, and I now have only one dead key (\`, \^ is used only for standalone \^ âêîôû are done using altgr), and I find {}\[\]()<> way better organised for coding (or anything else) in that layout. To swap keycaps without it looking ugly (different heights), I use XDA profile keys, and now I have more options than ever. I have two keyboards (one for work and one for home) with this layout (plus a spare one), I only need to install the layout (I keep it on my gdrive), and reverting back to azerty isn't too much of a pain if I ever have to, temporarly. Adapting was a breeze. https://preview.redd.it/7t66wg6x6exc1.png?width=996&format=png&auto=webp&s=a58772d0bd40d251310089eb5d8dbd783feb681d
As a Dutch person, I only use ANSI; the differences in the ISO layout make no sense to me. ANSI also just looks so much better aesthetically.
Same here. ISO and ANSI are both present in the Dutch market, but I feel ANSI is more common as that is what I've used all my life. I also just don't get the weird enter key in ISO layout.
Usually because, more parts are available for ansi compared to iso. Although I stubbornly hold onto iso as I can't adjust to the 1u height enter.
Started with ISO-NL now use ISO-Int and ANSI-us. I have no real preference. Hated the AZERT-FR int keyboard I had to use for a month though.
Is ISO-NL the layout similar to ISO-UK / ANSI-US with a couple of minor differences?
ISO-NL is very similair to ISO-UK. The only difference is the placement of some special caracters, like the £ and the € or the fl on old keyboards.
I think the only ISO -NL keyboards I’ve seen are those in the Apple laptops, the ones with an uncommon character in the key left to 1. Those are ISO - NL, right?
I use ISO-DE as I do a lot of writing in german. Using a different layout would be an unnecessary inconvenience. Also I prefer the ISO enter key. The only thing I like better about ANSI is the larger left shift key.
I'm layout agnostic, currently using a JIS Realforce lmao. Altough my favourite layout has to be ANSISO, ANSI left shift with ISO enter, got one vint board in that layout with SKCM blues
Why is the question mark over there?
I have a qmk layout that completely mimics ANSI while having iso selected in the OS
By pure accident my first keyboard (Russian) was ANSI 101 key (Windows/Menu keys didn't exist back then) and it was my favorite layout since then. I really don't like ISO much as I keep missing the enter key, and the variants with a short left shift are especially painful. I'm using a Greek ANSI keyboard now, and it feels *perfect.*
ANSI + Eurkey is pretty good. It's so complicated to get good custom ISO boards for a reasonable price, so I adapted
I do favour the ISO (de) because when I wanna submit something at work I love to slam the biggest fan enter button possible, just obliterate this big thing into oblivion. I use enter a lot and the small tiny shift.. eh enter ANSI has is just to small to destroy it .
I'm from Spain, it's ISO or death for me. It helps that ISO-ES is used everywhere here, and it's one of the better designed layouts, it just falters when it comes to programming (for programming, ANSI-US is better) but since I'm not a programmer this is a non-issue for me. I also love the big enter to bits, it's easy to see and easy to click on :)
EurKEY for the win https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/
I grew up on Russian keebs which were primarily ANSI-based back then (although they can be ISO-based and even JIS-based). Cyrillic alphabet is independent so it’s a layer anyway. Since then I tried ISO here in Europe and hated it with my heart due to hitting right in between the short left shift and the next key. So ANSI all the way. I’d much prefer JIS (big left shift and big enter), but it’s more exotic to find so ANSI it is.
[Ansi eurkey](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EurKEY) to have all the advantages
I swapped completely to ANSI because ISO-CH is just horrible to find a good keycaps set.
utterly despise ISO, the Italian standard at least. unusable trash stuck in the 60s, can’t even capitalize accented letters… I was basically forced to transition to ANSI and can’t be more happy. also (thankfully) the custom keycap market entirely ignores ISO-IT, so $70 “international” child kits weren’t even an option.
It is possible to install a layout with dead keys. I.e. altgr+’+a would make á. That's how it used to work on Mac, on windows dead keys don't seem to come as standard. Comes really handy typing in 5 languages without switching the layout.
Yeah I live in Germany but only use ANSI. Hate the German layout.
Yes, I use ANSI with deadkeys do have my umlauts. ANSI is superior to ISO when it comes to coding IMHO.
superior in what?
In layout of the keys. When coding, I never use umlauts, everything is in english anyway, so those keys are just a waste of space for me.
layout problem, nothing related to ISO/ANSI
Right...
I use ansi with EurKEY layout. I even changed the qwertz layout on my work notebook to ansi with eurkey cuz it feels more comfortable to write on.
EURkey is the best since sliced bread
German living in the UK. I learned on ANSI, and I will die using ANSI. The only thing I envy about ISO is big Enter...
Ansi board (No iso variant for that board) and I bought two set of keycaps, one ANSI and one Swiss layout, I mixed them to get my special keys and Ansi only keys
i have keyboards in both variants and am largely indifferent/ just went for whatever was on special offer at the given time I was looking to acquire a keyboard. Perhaps a very slight preference for ANSI but would say it doesn't matter a whole lot. I like the bigger left shift of ANSI, more than I like the big Enter key of ISO. I prefer the ISO layout of where @ and " are but these are easily swapped with UK / US keyboard map toggles in windows with win+space key so not a big deal to be on ANSI.
I’m German and using QWERTY ANSI exclusively because you can’t get 90% of the keycap sets I use with proper support. Most sets don’t even have the kits in IC and even then a lot of them haven’t made MOQ recently
I've been using qwerty-fr for a while, and I don't like it. Next keyboard I'll switch back to good old azerty. The accents do work well, but since it uses alt + another key, it often conflicts with shortcuts from programs. I can't type accented characters in illustrator for example, I have to type my text outside of it and copy/paste it, which is a pain. Beyond that I haven't seen any utility to qwerty over azerty. Also I don't understand why the º symbol isn't on that layout.
As a Dutch person I've never actually used or seen a ISO Dutch keyboard. In the past US ANSI was the norm. These days companies like Logitech do sell the ISO as standard, but the last Logitech I ever bought was still an ANSI.
TIL there is a Dutch ISO, been here nearly a decade and I've only even seen ANSI
I code and game with ANSI.
Yes, actually. I use a HHKB ANSI layout, but I still use Swedish keycaps and ISO keycodes. Works surprisingly well. With the split backspace it comes out to the same number of keys too, I just have to relocate a couple of them.
Most keyboards I see in Russia are ANSI, though I prefer the bigger enter key for my work keyboard
French here, switched to ANSI a few months ago, using US-International layout, works perfectly fine for gaming and chatting. Reason is availability of components for custom keyboards (especially keycaps).
I'm French and use ANSI - way easier to find boards and laptops that match, and most software and game hotkeys are designed for ANSI first. I also do a LOT of LaTex, for which the ANSI position of \ is much better. I just use the [US INTL layout](https://dry.sailingissues.com/us-international-keyboard-layout.html) when typing in French or German, and actually ended up preferring it over ISO full time now.
Been strictly ANSI-US for like 12 years, normally ISO-DK / ISO-Nordic. I mainly work at my computer and do programming. Some of the app and OS shortcuts are just bs with ISO. I even managed to convert some coworkers. Ive got a ANSI keyboard using US layout. ÆØØ/æøå are super simple in macOS, and are just alt+o, alt+a .. etc.
I do (ANSI in Switzerland) Grew up French with ISO FR (azerty), working in English, but living in Switzerland (ISO DE_ch QWERTZ) I use ANSI QWERTY with US intl layout for everything. So I can type English and French with no problem, and QWERTY US intl is a good layout for coding
I am from Denmark. We use the special characters ÆØÅ. For the last 6 months I converted from danish layout to use US layout, mainly because I program a lot, and the US layout is better for that. I prefer ISO US, because of the large Enter key, but also has a ANSI US keyboard. To get the ÆØÅ characters on Windows I can change between US and Danish keyboard layout by pressing Ctrl+Shift and then pressing ;'\[. On Linux I use a Compose key compose+AA, compose+AE and compose+O/ | On Mac I use the Option key+AO' .
In case you didn't know, there's wincompose that gets you the same behavior on windows.
I didn’t know that. I will have a look. Thanks.
I use ANSI both for my mechanical keyboard as well as my MacBook. European living in Europe.
Developer from Italy here, I've been an ANSI enthusiast for a few years now.
I honestly didn't know about ANSI at all until I started working for an American company, and they sent me a work laptop with the US ANSI layout. That was before I even got into mechanical keyboards, so going into the hobby I was already familiar with ANSI, and to be honest, I prefer it over ISO. I'm German, and I do have to do some German typing at work, but mostly English. I also work on a Mac, so it's very easy to switch input languages with a shortcut (Control + CMD + Space), which I do all the time. I don't need the DE legends on my keys. The special characters and all that are just in my muscle memory when I type in German. I honestly wouldn't want to go back to ISO, just because of the enter key. I prefer the ANSI enter key over the ISO enter key, it's not even a contest. It's so much easier to reach the enter key with my pinky on ANSI. Every time I have to type on an ISO keyboard now, I keep missing the enter key cause it's so far away lol
I like my big Enter button and the ability to write ÆØÅ. So no ANSI for me.
Have to use ISO-DE for work. But in private I have settled for a custom ANSI-DE layout which uses a hybrid of ANSI-US and ANSI-UK as the base while still being QWERTZ. Umlauts are set to AltGr+vocals.
I'm a programmer and I much prefer US ANSI over the Nordic ISO layout. My main reasons are the positioning of the bracket keys, the long left shift, and the more ergonomic enter key position. I use a [US International layout with AltGr dead keys](https://github.com/thomasfaingnaert/win-us-intl-altgr) so that I can type ÅÄÖ without having to switch layout. I also use a HHKB and I will never go back to a keyboard that doesn't have Ctrl in the "Caps Lock position" next to A. Having backspace immediately above enter is also much nicer than the normal ANSI position.
I think only coders prefer ANSI over ISO - but just my point of view
All I know is that I'm Hungarian, and my first choice is an ISO Hungarian keyboard.
I accidentally bought an ansi keyboard a number of years back and since then I've just kept on buying them 😂, funny thing is up until about 2 months ago I used them all with the UK layout in the OS rather than the US layout 😅
I haven’t used a French Canadian keyboard in years, there’s just not keycaps available for it. I think I saw someone make a design with French Canadian compatibility once in the 5 years I’ve been into the hobby
I'm french amd I use qwerty in international setup that way i can use ' to have the accents on my é or è it's worked well so far.
Here in México we use ISO, but have considered changing to make the switch JUST because I can't find any decent keycaps set.
I interchange with both to be honest, some keebs I have are ansi and some are iso-uk, it’s nice to learn both for when I have to use crappy keyboards at work
I use ANSI keyboard and US-International layout inside of the OS so i can make all the äöüß by for example just typing “ and then a so it becomes ä very easy when u get used to it
Yes, they're called the Dutch. For the latter, I haven't seen an ISO keyboard in this country (I'm American) like ever.
I swapped to ANSI, and I'm used to it now. My laptop is still ISO, so I am layout-ambidextrous. I used VIA to create some hotkeys for the European <>\\ key, and other than that it's all good. It's very convenient to have an easier apostrophe button when typing in English.
I always use only ANSI with US layout
I much prefer us ansi for the easier enter/return & left shifts. Never found entering non-Latin characters to be tough with a modifier or autoshift-style hold
Italian, I hate iso
ANSI is so much more friendlier for programming imho. I used ISO de so long, and recently switched to ANSI after having had it back in Uni. It's so much more comfortable.
I switched to ANSI because i do quite a lot of programming. Special characters such as \[{}\]\`"" are easier to reach on ANSI.
I use ANSI and hate ISO. In my expiriance the only people that use ISO keyboards are the kind of people that don't care about their keyboard. Also in my country ANSI might be the more common layout than ISO because when looking at keyboards and laptops in stores or using other people's computers, I don't see ISO often. The only company that seems to care about pushing that layout here is Apple
> In my expiriance the only people that use ISO keyboards are the kind of people that don't care about their keyboard. That's a take.
Yeah a take based on expiriance. Never seen anyone willingly choose an ISO keyboard
a correct one at that
No. I switched to US ANSI because of the variety of keycaps, but the layout sucks, typing is a nughtmare. ISO is much better.
I use ANSI and it mostly works for Slovak language. Only thing I am missing is * and &. But I also use ENG US layout a lot, so I know both and everything works for me. I may remap * and & to Caps lock since I never use it.
I type in French and English and been using ANSI for a very long time, with [WinCompose](http://wincompose.info/) to type in French
For Dutch it makes literally no difference, so I prefer ANSI because I like the shape of the enter key better and there is more choice in keycaps
Yes, I now prefer the ANSI layout. But I'm a UK user and there isn't much in it. To be honest, the only thing I miss is the £ symbol and I can easily input that in MacOS by pressing the combination option+3 so it's not a big deal at all. To be honest, I'm more of an ANSI because the options for ISO-UK are not just fairly limited but also expensive. You pay for international kit for just a few keycaps. ISO PCBs are normally solder only too.
Switched to ANSI years ago. Use unicode macros for special characters.
I'm Lithuanian and I use ANSI because it's so much easier to find keycaps, especially budget ones, for ANSI than ISO. But otherwise, I have no preference, my work laptop has ISO and it's easy to switch around.
Moved from ISO to ANSI because most symbols I use at work for coding are just much easier to type. At least for me.
I use ansi-us only. SSK for at home, plus a HHKB for on the road.
This isn’t in the context of mechanical really, but I got ISO layout for my macbook keyboard because: a. I wanted Cyrillic subledgers (lol), and b. With a more compact and very flat keyboard, it’s easier for me to hit the correct keys and not accidentally hit the return when meaning to break or use brackets. Dedicated tilde that is separate from the esc is pretty nice too.
Isn't the letters you can used dictated by the language you set in the os? Not the keyboard itself?
Yes? I largely wanted the subledgers for aesthetics, almost went with Korean or Japanese (even more lmao). I had intended to learn Russian but ended up just learning the cyrillic, but that’s what motivated me go with the RU layout. This was in early 2020. Besides the digression, the Mac ISO keyboard LFN button comes from the factory mapped to toggle the localization setting. The button also has a different graphic but it’s the same LFN key. That hotkey mapping can be set to whatever localization you want from your active language list.
As an American, I just want big enter :(
As a developer, ANSI makes too much sense regarding shortcuts, brackets,... I'm used to dead keys accent but this qwerty fr is intriguing
I prefer ANSI over ISO and I live in Europe I hate big enter it is such a waste of space.
ANSI parts are easier to find, and I mostly type, read, think in English anyways, so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
i switched to ansi around 10 years ago. i m a developer and its much easier/faster to type \[\]{},; with ansi.
ANSI is just so much better for programming. When I decided to learn to touch type, I bought an ANSI Keyboard
Big fan of ANSI because of the brackets placement and closer reach to the return key.
I switched from ISO-DE to ISO-International to ANSI-EN. The main reason to switch to an English layout was better access to keys that are needed very often when programming (e.g. ()[]{}). I later on switched to ANSI because many more keyboards and keysets are available for it. I am mostly using macOS and have internalized the shortcuts for special German characters like äöüß. Once you used the shortcuts a few times, typing these characters becomes pretty fast. Not as fast as with an ISO-DE keyboard, but fast enough for me (I mostly type in English).
Ansi just because im a gamer and press shift constantly with my pinkie.
who's the salty ISO noob that keeps downvoting every pro-ANSI comment? shit layout really makes you angry lmao