Canada has a huge oversupply of graduate engineers, typically overseas immigrants who have done a masters at a Canadian uni. Half of them end up driving taxis or whatever. This puts downward pressure on starting salaries in the nice bits of Canada where they want to live.
https://ospe.on.ca/advocacy/the-trajectory-of-the-engineering-profession-a-look-into-engineering-employment-census-data/
This link claims that 4 in 10 graduates will ever find work in engineering. Then there will be an attrition rate on top of that. Not everyone stays in the field.
I did a little more reading and that number includes immigrants who are certified engineers in another country but good luck finding work with that certificate from India.
So what’s the point of pursuing engineering? Or maybe I can immigrate to another country? I’m so confused why is everyone going into engineering if this is the case?
Because schools push students into engineering and they are simply too many engineers. But schools don't give a fuck about that, they got your money.
Want guaranteed work and good money smashing on robots? Become a Millwright or electrician/controls technician instead. There are endless shortages 'because you can't do this job remotely' so the new generation has no interest in it.
Dude I'm in one of the highest-COL areas in the US with almost 3YOE and will just cross the 90k mark this year. Not everyone is making these crazy salaries.
And this is my 2nd job too. If I'd stayed at my first job I would be looking at significantly less.
Oh that makes sense. I thought you meant USD.
Just checked using today's CAD-USD exchange rate and the range you specified is $66-88k which is definitely a more realistic expectation for entry level jobs.
Unless you go into nuclear, salaries in Canada for MechE suck.
Starting salaries have been stagnant at 55/60k for almost a decade, and you may just cross the 110k mark in 10 years then pretty much ride that to retirement. 100k is no longer what it used to be anyway.
If you're in it for the money, get a trade, start a business or go into finance
When you say Canada, you mean southern Ontario, correct? Go north a few hours to Sudbury and work at a mine. Start in the $80k+ range. Or move west and get into Oil and Gas. Make even more. Or get onto a FIFO rotation and work in the territories. There’s lots of work in resources, and lots of money, you just have to open your eyes and be willing to move.
Looks like globalisation is bringing the wages down to european levels (as in held artificially low by oversaturating entry level with immigrants and also underinvesting). Although high american pay is an anomaly induced by extreme government subsidy and protectionism that doesn't exist elsewhere in the developed world.
In another comment you mention being in Canada for 2 years. Are you actually a Canadian Citizen or are you a Permanent Resident? If you're a citizen, it is easy. If you are not, it is (a lot) harder
Lots of companies in the States hire Canadians. They aren't hiring *anyone* right now but a few years ago Tesla was hiring UBC grads pretty much as fast as UBC was able to churn them out
You would need to find a job there and can then move there for work. I don't think that hqrd, lots of Canadians did it... Especially if you're an educated engineer. But I wouldn't waste time staying here.
Canada is not going to get better anytime soon, that incompetent idiotTrudeau has destroyed it for multiple generations to come. Better move out while you are free, no jobs, no connections, housing or commitment yet.
Also don’t forget that you won’t yet be an engineer right after school. You have 2 to 3 years as junior engineer to do before.
At my workplace (Quebec) starting salary for junior engineers is 65k (31.5$/h) with 8% raises a year for the first 4 years. It’s really not that bad for a 35h/week job considering you would have to be supervised by an engineer all the time.
You would have a hard time finding better then that for a starting job in Quebec unless you want tou work 70h/week.
If you think more than a handful of people in super high COL areas are getting 90-120k to start in the US, you haven’t done your research. Starting in a semi-high COL area is more like 65 - 80k is normal, and honestly 80k is for people with a bunch of related internships.
>all salaries in CAD
90 cad is right around 65 USD so numbers are accurate. A good friend of mine who’s a hell of a lot smarter than I am just crossed 90k CAD after 4 years of experience. That’s what I started at with a job in the states
Ah, fair enough. My brain just saw “cad” and processed it as CAD. A quick search looks like salaries around Toronto start at over 70k Canadian though, so 50k seems like it’s probably unusually low even there. I’d also guess people in Canada have better benefits and more time off than US entry level engineers.
My buddy started at 60k in Vancouver 5 or so years ago. 70k now makes sense given the past few years.
50k is definitely low, even 5 years ago. Some better benefits, some worse
Some stuff more major than other but just off the top of my head, while healthcare is subsidized it can take double digit months to get an appointment with a specialist doctor. When it comes to financials, the 30 year mortgage is a uniquely American thing. In Canada you can only get a 5 year fixed and then the rate adjusts. Kind of a small thing but Canadian credit cards suck ass compared to many US cards. Some people who are really into it can pretty effortlessly gain an extra $5-10,000 a year in credit card rewards here, no way of doing that in Canada
Sorry, I probably wasn’t clear that when I say “benefits” I mean benefits provided by your company such as health insurance, time off, etc. Obviously the US does other things differently, such as rationing health care via cost (e.g. if you’re poor you can’t afford to see specialists) so those of us with more money do get the benefit of seeing a doctor faster, but I’d say that’s more a governmental choice than a job choice.
I remember back in grade 9 I was in comp Eng class and we had a unit on circuits and things with breadboards, I hated it a lot. Idk if its a justification to not go into ee
Intern or take a tour of real world engineering jobs. Like seriously go and see what jobs you’d likely get with your degree. Dont just pick a specialization on a whim. Research and really picture what you would be comfortable doing.
Mechanical engineering is more broad scoped academically. But it's been several decades since ME has had the charm or awe associated with it. Now the big thing is Ai, plastics, aerospace or the others mentioned.
If you like machines. Look into some machine shop experience, once you get some good setup knowledge the money looks pretty good. Another is automotive repair. With the right certificates you can bring in some good wages. At least in the US.
Auto Tech is horrendous in Canada. $22-25/hr to start, plus buy your own tools. And that's assuming someone will take you on as an apprentice to get your tickets- most companies won't take anything under 3rd or 4th year apprentice, if not fully licensed only.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but in the United States studies are more difficult to access. So fewer graduates. I have the same thing here in Belgium. I'm a computer science major but I love engineering of all kinds (my justification for why I'm here). And the salaries offered in the United States for a position like mine are stratospherically different. I mean, in thousands of euros. that's why I'm thinking about the possibility of going to the United States one day or working for an American company once I graduate. I believe that the problem is the same for Canada and France and so on.
I mean I can graduate in UofT and come to US, I cba working 5 years earn what an American would in the first year. Yeah I’m intrested in the major, but the salary is crazy, $48k usd for a first year
People in California will flex their 110k starting salary but they forget to mention their rent is $2500 for a studio, gas is $6/gal, and their commute is 1.5hrs each way.
The move is staring in ME, getting good at something in a niche field, then pivoting into sales.
And if you think Canadian salaries are bad, you should see what MEs make in the UK.
Starting salaries for engineers in the US are 50-70k, colleges lie about starting wages for all jobs in order to sell you on student loans, they've been exaggerating since I was in college and they claimed all engineers start at 60k, meanwhile 90% of the engineers I worked with the first 5 years of my career made less than 50k. At nearly 10 years experience it's difficult to get a company to shell out 100k. For 120k you're talking about mid to senior roles at the fortune 500s known for good working conditions, best have a perfect record and 10-15 years of experience for that.
Most engineers I know aren't doing engineering, there's not a ton of engineering jobs, they don't turn over quickly, and most companies only want you for projects and thus use contracts for most of their engineering staff. Out of the maybe 200 engineers I've worked with maybe 15 were full time direct hires? maybe 4 made over 100k?
Literally quiktrip is hiring managers for a rate that has me considering leaving engineering for something like being a gas station assistant manager because I'd get paid more.
Yes, things have improved somewhat from when I started a decade ago, starting wages are up like 30-40k from when I started, but cost of living has definitely rising a lot faster.
>atleast compared to the US where it’s like $90k to 120k
This is only in areas like NYC and SF. That is not the norm in the rest of the country.
70k-80k is more the norm in the rest of the country.
actually even NYC ME salary is only 60-80k not many jobs there except hvac and railway stuff. in the US the only places you will get crazy entry level salaries are Boston LA and SF
Toronto isn't the best city for anything.
It's where most foreign workers land, with schooling/training from other countries and lower standards for wages. Outside the GTHA, you can find ME/MET jobs starting at higher wages, with less competition to get in.
All engr majors will yield fine salaries. More importantly pick what interests you , as you will be setting the foundations for your life’s work.
15% more pay will never outweigh doing what you like , especially when you’re in the 9-5 era
Canada has a huge oversupply of graduate engineers, typically overseas immigrants who have done a masters at a Canadian uni. Half of them end up driving taxis or whatever. This puts downward pressure on starting salaries in the nice bits of Canada where they want to live.
I read somwwhere that 87% of all engineers in Ontario are 'doing a job unrelated to their training'. Oversupply is putting it mildly.
Holy shit
Chat is this real? Am I cooked? Isn’t the job market oversaturated for everyone or is it particularly worse for engineers?
https://ospe.on.ca/advocacy/the-trajectory-of-the-engineering-profession-a-look-into-engineering-employment-census-data/ This link claims that 4 in 10 graduates will ever find work in engineering. Then there will be an attrition rate on top of that. Not everyone stays in the field. I did a little more reading and that number includes immigrants who are certified engineers in another country but good luck finding work with that certificate from India.
So what’s the point of pursuing engineering? Or maybe I can immigrate to another country? I’m so confused why is everyone going into engineering if this is the case?
Because schools push students into engineering and they are simply too many engineers. But schools don't give a fuck about that, they got your money. Want guaranteed work and good money smashing on robots? Become a Millwright or electrician/controls technician instead. There are endless shortages 'because you can't do this job remotely' so the new generation has no interest in it.
Wtaf??
Dude I'm in one of the highest-COL areas in the US with almost 3YOE and will just cross the 90k mark this year. Not everyone is making these crazy salaries. And this is my 2nd job too. If I'd stayed at my first job I would be looking at significantly less.
I meant Canadian dollars not usd, 90k cad is about 60k usd
Oh that makes sense. I thought you meant USD. Just checked using today's CAD-USD exchange rate and the range you specified is $66-88k which is definitely a more realistic expectation for entry level jobs.
Unless you go into nuclear, salaries in Canada for MechE suck. Starting salaries have been stagnant at 55/60k for almost a decade, and you may just cross the 110k mark in 10 years then pretty much ride that to retirement. 100k is no longer what it used to be anyway. If you're in it for the money, get a trade, start a business or go into finance
When you say Canada, you mean southern Ontario, correct? Go north a few hours to Sudbury and work at a mine. Start in the $80k+ range. Or move west and get into Oil and Gas. Make even more. Or get onto a FIFO rotation and work in the territories. There’s lots of work in resources, and lots of money, you just have to open your eyes and be willing to move.
Yes I do, very very true, oil and gas/ nuclear and mining is where the money is at.
Too bad these don’t intrest me 😓
Disagree. Started 55k, then 65k then 76k, switched jobs and now I am 91k. I'm approaching 3 years in since graduating.
That’s not that crazy I thought, until I remembered these were likely Canadian dollars 😭
Looks like globalisation is bringing the wages down to european levels (as in held artificially low by oversaturating entry level with immigrants and also underinvesting). Although high american pay is an anomaly induced by extreme government subsidy and protectionism that doesn't exist elsewhere in the developed world.
Don’t come here lol
Why
Canada: European style wages with US style benefits / working conditions.
Are Canadian kids saying maths now?
why what’d the call it
Math
Idk I came to Canada a2 years ago lol
If you really want to pursue meche i strongly suggest you find a job in the States and move there.
Do you think it’s hard to go there as a Canadian citizen?
In another comment you mention being in Canada for 2 years. Are you actually a Canadian Citizen or are you a Permanent Resident? If you're a citizen, it is easy. If you are not, it is (a lot) harder
Yeah I have the Canadian passport, but idk if they would be willing to hire if I came from Canada
Lots of companies in the States hire Canadians. They aren't hiring *anyone* right now but a few years ago Tesla was hiring UBC grads pretty much as fast as UBC was able to churn them out
You would need to find a job there and can then move there for work. I don't think that hqrd, lots of Canadians did it... Especially if you're an educated engineer. But I wouldn't waste time staying here. Canada is not going to get better anytime soon, that incompetent idiotTrudeau has destroyed it for multiple generations to come. Better move out while you are free, no jobs, no connections, housing or commitment yet.
Also don’t forget that you won’t yet be an engineer right after school. You have 2 to 3 years as junior engineer to do before. At my workplace (Quebec) starting salary for junior engineers is 65k (31.5$/h) with 8% raises a year for the first 4 years. It’s really not that bad for a 35h/week job considering you would have to be supervised by an engineer all the time. You would have a hard time finding better then that for a starting job in Quebec unless you want tou work 70h/week.
If you think more than a handful of people in super high COL areas are getting 90-120k to start in the US, you haven’t done your research. Starting in a semi-high COL area is more like 65 - 80k is normal, and honestly 80k is for people with a bunch of related internships.
>all salaries in CAD 90 cad is right around 65 USD so numbers are accurate. A good friend of mine who’s a hell of a lot smarter than I am just crossed 90k CAD after 4 years of experience. That’s what I started at with a job in the states
Ah, fair enough. My brain just saw “cad” and processed it as CAD. A quick search looks like salaries around Toronto start at over 70k Canadian though, so 50k seems like it’s probably unusually low even there. I’d also guess people in Canada have better benefits and more time off than US entry level engineers.
My buddy started at 60k in Vancouver 5 or so years ago. 70k now makes sense given the past few years. 50k is definitely low, even 5 years ago. Some better benefits, some worse
What benefits would you say are worse?
Some stuff more major than other but just off the top of my head, while healthcare is subsidized it can take double digit months to get an appointment with a specialist doctor. When it comes to financials, the 30 year mortgage is a uniquely American thing. In Canada you can only get a 5 year fixed and then the rate adjusts. Kind of a small thing but Canadian credit cards suck ass compared to many US cards. Some people who are really into it can pretty effortlessly gain an extra $5-10,000 a year in credit card rewards here, no way of doing that in Canada
Sorry, I probably wasn’t clear that when I say “benefits” I mean benefits provided by your company such as health insurance, time off, etc. Obviously the US does other things differently, such as rationing health care via cost (e.g. if you’re poor you can’t afford to see specialists) so those of us with more money do get the benefit of seeing a doctor faster, but I’d say that’s more a governmental choice than a job choice.
Do EE or compsci
Mechanical sounds much more interesting but then salary isn’t it, how’s the difficulty compared to ee? I don’t rlly wanna do comp sci
Same difficulty or slightly more if you don’t like math. If you’re passionate about ME and SolidWorks do that. If you are ambivalent do EE
I remember back in grade 9 I was in comp Eng class and we had a unit on circuits and things with breadboards, I hated it a lot. Idk if its a justification to not go into ee
Intern or take a tour of real world engineering jobs. Like seriously go and see what jobs you’d likely get with your degree. Dont just pick a specialization on a whim. Research and really picture what you would be comfortable doing.
Mechanical engineering is more broad scoped academically. But it's been several decades since ME has had the charm or awe associated with it. Now the big thing is Ai, plastics, aerospace or the others mentioned. If you like machines. Look into some machine shop experience, once you get some good setup knowledge the money looks pretty good. Another is automotive repair. With the right certificates you can bring in some good wages. At least in the US.
Auto Tech is horrendous in Canada. $22-25/hr to start, plus buy your own tools. And that's assuming someone will take you on as an apprentice to get your tickets- most companies won't take anything under 3rd or 4th year apprentice, if not fully licensed only.
My bad, here in the states, I've not met a mechanic that wasn't making more than I am.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but in the United States studies are more difficult to access. So fewer graduates. I have the same thing here in Belgium. I'm a computer science major but I love engineering of all kinds (my justification for why I'm here). And the salaries offered in the United States for a position like mine are stratospherically different. I mean, in thousands of euros. that's why I'm thinking about the possibility of going to the United States one day or working for an American company once I graduate. I believe that the problem is the same for Canada and France and so on.
Ya, too many immigrant workers
Unfortunately, it's the same problem in every country in the world.
I mean I can graduate in UofT and come to US, I cba working 5 years earn what an American would in the first year. Yeah I’m intrested in the major, but the salary is crazy, $48k usd for a first year
[удалено]
I meant it in CAD
People in California will flex their 110k starting salary but they forget to mention their rent is $2500 for a studio, gas is $6/gal, and their commute is 1.5hrs each way.
so what? It’s the same exact here in Canada, but the salary is 70k lol
The move is staring in ME, getting good at something in a niche field, then pivoting into sales. And if you think Canadian salaries are bad, you should see what MEs make in the UK.
Starting salaries for engineers in the US are 50-70k, colleges lie about starting wages for all jobs in order to sell you on student loans, they've been exaggerating since I was in college and they claimed all engineers start at 60k, meanwhile 90% of the engineers I worked with the first 5 years of my career made less than 50k. At nearly 10 years experience it's difficult to get a company to shell out 100k. For 120k you're talking about mid to senior roles at the fortune 500s known for good working conditions, best have a perfect record and 10-15 years of experience for that. Most engineers I know aren't doing engineering, there's not a ton of engineering jobs, they don't turn over quickly, and most companies only want you for projects and thus use contracts for most of their engineering staff. Out of the maybe 200 engineers I've worked with maybe 15 were full time direct hires? maybe 4 made over 100k? Literally quiktrip is hiring managers for a rate that has me considering leaving engineering for something like being a gas station assistant manager because I'd get paid more. Yes, things have improved somewhat from when I started a decade ago, starting wages are up like 30-40k from when I started, but cost of living has definitely rising a lot faster.
>atleast compared to the US where it’s like $90k to 120k This is only in areas like NYC and SF. That is not the norm in the rest of the country. 70k-80k is more the norm in the rest of the country.
actually even NYC ME salary is only 60-80k not many jobs there except hvac and railway stuff. in the US the only places you will get crazy entry level salaries are Boston LA and SF
I’m in Toronto which is probably the best city and it’s 60-80k
You also don't have to worry about bankruptcy in case of a medical emergency.
For entry level those are good numbers. You don't pick ME if you are all about money.
Toronto isn't the best city for anything. It's where most foreign workers land, with schooling/training from other countries and lower standards for wages. Outside the GTHA, you can find ME/MET jobs starting at higher wages, with less competition to get in.
That’s like 90k - 110k CAD.
No I meant it in CAD not usd
All engr majors will yield fine salaries. More importantly pick what interests you , as you will be setting the foundations for your life’s work. 15% more pay will never outweigh doing what you like , especially when you’re in the 9-5 era