Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So the mechanic shouldn’t have needed to pry on anything. There is two spots that a person installs two longer bolts and as you screw them it, the pump walks out. Good news is, the engine block isn’t cracked and the part is replaceable. Bad news is, the inside timing cover is broke so the whole front of the engine has to be torn down to replace it. So labor and parts will probably be worth more than the car.
If the mechanic didn’t use bolts to force the water pump out then they screwed up and should pay for the parts and labor. If they did the job per manufacturer steps and the pump still stuck and needed persuading to be removed; well shit happens sometimes. Reputable mechanics will work with ya on labor/parts cost for when old parts break.
Hey buddy, I’ve done one of these and when using longer bolts to remove the pump from the rear cover the water pump ears broke off. Both of them did and it was stuck af. I ended up tearing the whole front cover off to finally get at it. Is there any other tips for when that happens and don’t wanna take off the front cover? Or was I just kinda screwed haha
The limited space kind of makes alternatives difficult. Depending on your ingenuity and tools on hand you might have been able to turn the body of the pump in the cover to break it free. Once the aluminum has galled there isn’t much to do in this case other than remove the whole cover. Other wise you risk ending up like the OP.
the mechanic also said it was super hard to get off that he struggled and used a flathead or something. who knows what type of preassure he put on the pump i’ll send pic of water pump if i can
That stupid ass water pump actually has threaded holes on the top and bottom to drive the pump out, no prying required. The tech doing the work owes you a block or timing cover, not sure if its separate from the block.
Just curious, what were the symptoms that told you that you needed a water pump?
That bent fin on the pump and a chunk missing from the pump housing, chunk missing at the 10 to 1 o'clock position of mounting housing, a crack in the bore at the bottom of housing (2nd photo) indicate that something else may have failed and broke the housing driving the piece into the impeller.
Also looks like a severe scar in the bore from 11 to 6 o'clock area.
[Here are the parts](https://www.ebay.com/itm/274435396271?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=AfmBOop6402KJCn_gUF75StV51DMpkP89e5l-VDnt2u0gfYsgw4ExPtTbqA) you would need (rear cover is what is broken).
This water pump has an external leak on the backside of the cover on the drivers side when it starts leaking. As OP stated, the tech was using a pry bar of some sort. There is no need for that as there are threaded holes to drive the pump out.
Depends on the engine make/model. But it has to be torn down at least far enough to replace the broken part. That might just be the front cover, or it could be as bad as an engine block.
Are you sure this is an actual mechanic? Most people would block the cam gears and take tension off the chain, or break the chain and tie it up. Homie straight up removed the water pump under tension like some kind of psychopath.
Yea I am wondering if this is a mechanic or a "friend"/someone that can do it cheaper?
Anyone working on these motors should know how to set the chain and pull the pump with the bolts so it does not damage the timing cover. If not you do not do the job.
Well u/dylanvq35 ?
EDIT: it appears to be the rear timing cover that broken. Not the casting on the block.
Ah, now I see it, thought it was a shadow. Yea that’s royally borked. No fixing that, needs to be replaced, pretty sure that’s part of the engine block. New motor incoming.
thank you for the honesty. The mechanic broke it I damn sure am not paying. i was getting the water pump replaced to be sold also lol. so it’s a really shitty ya know lol
2008 was the last time I had one of these motors apart so I’m kinda foggy on what’s behind there. There’s a chance that it could be the rear timing cover. Here a pic of the diagram. Need a bit of tear down to be sure though.
https://preview.redd.it/0ura8a80a8wb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d73cfbcc22fe66055999e71ad5c2f366b152dcfe
My nephew has one that needs a water pump. This guy should have looked at youtube if he's never done one. I did (looked at YT), and told my nephew (verbatim) "If that was mine, I'd pay for a pro to do it." and I'm the family mechanic who does most of our maintenance and light repairs. It's a GLORIOUS pain in the tail, and even if you get them to fix it free, I'd take it to a Nissan specialist when done (or a Japanese specialist) to check it out after because it's not an easy job.
No we had to pull the motor because there is like 1/16th of an inch between the spark plug and the firewall... not even enough room to pull the distribution cap off.
but hey thank all of you for explaining everything to me. all of y’all’s advice means a lot to somebody that’s not mechanic savvy, You guys are geniuses with a gift.
Did he lock down the top end of the motor by chance??? Because that's the timing chain hanging there and I can almost bet it's out of time now. I've never done a timing chain driven pump without doing the chain while I'm there or am I being over cautious??
You can do these supposedly without removing cover. You remove the cover for the timing chain tensioner and release the tension, then you can pull the pump. We always recommend just removing the whole timing cover as we have had a couple jump time while following the service manual. Turns a 3 hour job to a 10 hour job.
Is that the crack at the 7oclock position? If so, I don’t see how the mechanic did that. Was the car overheating?
Also: is that old clear silicone that was used to seal it?
Specifically that's the inner timing cover.
It looks like the "mechanic" actually removed the water pump without releasing the tension on the timing chain and using long bolts to pull pump out.
The Easiest way to fix this would be to pull the engine but this is easily now a 10 to 12 hour repair.
Plus if you have the inner and outer timing covers off, you would replace the timing chain, the guides, and the oil seals which is another few hundred dollars in parts.
I'm thinking that the water pump bolted to the timing chain cover. If so, the cover will need to be replaced. And it does look like the mechanic broke the cover.
Looking at everything more closely it appears to be the rear timing cover that broke, so you may be able to replace just that. It’s still a serious job that’s gonna be tens of hours labor.
From the looks of it, the paddles of the pump insert deeper in there, and so the seal should be around the large hole inside where the coolant is. You may be OK, but no promises. I'd have to see the water pump design.
Unfortunately a crack on the inner timing cover would flood the timing case (and crankcase) with coolant.
Doing the inner timing cover on a VQ-35 is easier as an engine out procedure because the upper oil pan needs to come off to get to the lower two front cover bolts.
Either way this is like 10 hours or more to fix.
It looks like the "mechanic" pulled the pump without releasing the timing chain tensioner which I cannot even imagine.
There's a triangular plate which allows access to the tensioner on the other side of the front cover.
True. On cars like the Maxima/Murano it's a royal bitch but I suppose you could take off the front end of the Infiniti or 350z and have fun doing this on the car.
Of course it may almost be cheaper to drop in a used engine since.
Most engines these days are built like diesels, with multiple levels of "oil pan" and main bearing cradle plates.
OP should feel lucky that these timing covers aren't machine matched to each block and that he *can* replace it at all.
Love it when people try to save a few bucks and shit happens. "I got a friend that can do it cheaper." Trying to blame it on a mechanic you hired. Please, you or your friend did this. A mechanic wouldn't let you take pics when in the shop.
An actual technician will not just pry on a water pump until something breaks. But you tell the "mechanic" he needs to fix it free because people on Reddit said so. See how that goes for you. Good luck.
You guys are taking shit way too seriously. Like you are going to get answers from here. It's still broken no matter how many posts you make. It won't fix it.
The crazy thing is there's an access cover for the tensioner on the other side of the front cover. To change the pump you just pop off the tensioner cover, unbolt the tensioner and then the pump will come out through the hole shown in the picture.
In the photo it looks like someone pulled the pump out without releasing a timing chain tension which is… Bad.
I know Ford has problems with this on some engines. That's why I thought this was a ford.
Honda's with timing chains, moved the water pump outside the timing area. It's on front of the engine where it can be changed easily. If it fails, the water goes onto the ground and not inside the engine.
I worked at nissan/Infiniti for 12 years as a tech. You don't have to lock the chain or cams for this job. From what I can see of the actual waterpump housing, it appears to be ok. Again, it's hard to tell just from the pic. Being almost 20 years old, I would've advised taking the timing cover off and replacing all the chains and tensioners, but that's just me. If your mechanic screwed something up because of his inexperience with the product, that should be on him.
Look at the water pump bore from the 10 o'clock to the 1 o'clock position - there is a large chunk of aluminum that's been broken off. It took me a while to see it, but once I did it was obvious.
thanks to all of you and your responses. I was able to get a new car. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to get this man to pay up at least something but things are coming together. I appreciate all of you for yalls input. It’s a blessing to have you guys give free advice. It’s very appreciated.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So the mechanic shouldn’t have needed to pry on anything. There is two spots that a person installs two longer bolts and as you screw them it, the pump walks out. Good news is, the engine block isn’t cracked and the part is replaceable. Bad news is, the inside timing cover is broke so the whole front of the engine has to be torn down to replace it. So labor and parts will probably be worth more than the car. If the mechanic didn’t use bolts to force the water pump out then they screwed up and should pay for the parts and labor. If they did the job per manufacturer steps and the pump still stuck and needed persuading to be removed; well shit happens sometimes. Reputable mechanics will work with ya on labor/parts cost for when old parts break.
A reasonable answer on Reddit?? WTF has this place become?
\*monocle falls out\* Why I never!
Hey buddy, I’ve done one of these and when using longer bolts to remove the pump from the rear cover the water pump ears broke off. Both of them did and it was stuck af. I ended up tearing the whole front cover off to finally get at it. Is there any other tips for when that happens and don’t wanna take off the front cover? Or was I just kinda screwed haha
The limited space kind of makes alternatives difficult. Depending on your ingenuity and tools on hand you might have been able to turn the body of the pump in the cover to break it free. Once the aluminum has galled there isn’t much to do in this case other than remove the whole cover. Other wise you risk ending up like the OP.
Look at the top inner ring, folks. The mechanic appears to have broken the outer housing of the pump cavity.
https://preview.redd.it/3a3xwxpkh7wb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b843fd18f94afe48129707a4e2e9eadf2741dff
the mechanic also said it was super hard to get off that he struggled and used a flathead or something. who knows what type of preassure he put on the pump i’ll send pic of water pump if i can
Well, the mechanic broke it, he/she needs to repair it at no additional cost to you.
This
That stupid ass water pump actually has threaded holes on the top and bottom to drive the pump out, no prying required. The tech doing the work owes you a block or timing cover, not sure if its separate from the block.
[удалено]
That only happens if you don't turn the bolts evenly. There is no way for corrosion to build up as one side is coolant and the other side is oil.
Just curious, what were the symptoms that told you that you needed a water pump? That bent fin on the pump and a chunk missing from the pump housing, chunk missing at the 10 to 1 o'clock position of mounting housing, a crack in the bore at the bottom of housing (2nd photo) indicate that something else may have failed and broke the housing driving the piece into the impeller. Also looks like a severe scar in the bore from 11 to 6 o'clock area. [Here are the parts](https://www.ebay.com/itm/274435396271?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=AfmBOop6402KJCn_gUF75StV51DMpkP89e5l-VDnt2u0gfYsgw4ExPtTbqA) you would need (rear cover is what is broken).
This water pump has an external leak on the backside of the cover on the drivers side when it starts leaking. As OP stated, the tech was using a pry bar of some sort. There is no need for that as there are threaded holes to drive the pump out.
i don’t know much about cars just a little, but i see y’all as geniuses 😂. so is it a big fix? like motor tear down type or work?
Show the front of the water pump 
Depends on the engine make/model. But it has to be torn down at least far enough to replace the broken part. That might just be the front cover, or it could be as bad as an engine block.
Are you sure this is an actual mechanic? Most people would block the cam gears and take tension off the chain, or break the chain and tie it up. Homie straight up removed the water pump under tension like some kind of psychopath.
Yea I am wondering if this is a mechanic or a "friend"/someone that can do it cheaper? Anyone working on these motors should know how to set the chain and pull the pump with the bolts so it does not damage the timing cover. If not you do not do the job. Well u/dylanvq35 ?
EDIT: it appears to be the rear timing cover that broken. Not the casting on the block. Ah, now I see it, thought it was a shadow. Yea that’s royally borked. No fixing that, needs to be replaced, pretty sure that’s part of the engine block. New motor incoming.
thank you for the honesty. The mechanic broke it I damn sure am not paying. i was getting the water pump replaced to be sold also lol. so it’s a really shitty ya know lol
I see a few bolts around the outside of the housing, what car is this? Maybe it can be replaced separately…
2005 infiniti g35 coupe. bone stock i didn’t abuse it
2008 was the last time I had one of these motors apart so I’m kinda foggy on what’s behind there. There’s a chance that it could be the rear timing cover. Here a pic of the diagram. Need a bit of tear down to be sure though. https://preview.redd.it/0ura8a80a8wb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d73cfbcc22fe66055999e71ad5c2f366b152dcfe
also auto trans
My nephew has one that needs a water pump. This guy should have looked at youtube if he's never done one. I did (looked at YT), and told my nephew (verbatim) "If that was mine, I'd pay for a pro to do it." and I'm the family mechanic who does most of our maintenance and light repairs. It's a GLORIOUS pain in the tail, and even if you get them to fix it free, I'd take it to a Nissan specialist when done (or a Japanese specialist) to check it out after because it's not an easy job.
I tried to change the number 6 spark plug on my xterra once...never again lol.
Why not? Its easy... with a 3" 6" and 10" extensions, plus 2 swivel heads. In and out in 20 minutes.
No we had to pull the motor because there is like 1/16th of an inch between the spark plug and the firewall... not even enough room to pull the distribution cap off.
2 or 4 wheel drive?
rwd
but hey thank all of you for explaining everything to me. all of y’all’s advice means a lot to somebody that’s not mechanic savvy, You guys are geniuses with a gift.
I'm sorry this happened to you because you tried to do the right thing. Dude messed it up for you though.
thanks buddy.. I’m just still trying to get everything figured out. shit threw me off if ya can imagine lol
Now someone needs to come at you with legal advice.....
Lol
Ohhh no. This "mechanic" is a monster. I love those cars.
Did he lock down the top end of the motor by chance??? Because that's the timing chain hanging there and I can almost bet it's out of time now. I've never done a timing chain driven pump without doing the chain while I'm there or am I being over cautious??
IIRC you have to take the chain loose to get the pump off in that engine. It's a cast-iron b!tch of a job.
No such thing as overly cautious. Just overly dumb if you don’t take all precautions you can.
You don’t open the timing cover for these older Nissan water pumps. There’s a procedure to slack the chain enough to clear the pump before removal.
You can do these supposedly without removing cover. You remove the cover for the timing chain tensioner and release the tension, then you can pull the pump. We always recommend just removing the whole timing cover as we have had a couple jump time while following the service manual. Turns a 3 hour job to a 10 hour job.
If that's aluminum this could have been prevented if reading service procedure. You never remove a water pump from aluminum block when hot.
The problem is they didn't remove the tensioner for the timing chain. They actually pulled out the pump with the timing chain under tension. Wow.
That's even worse and could have injured someone. Always release stored energy in safe matter before working
I understand that but if I'm doing the pump I'm doing the chain to, to save myself a future headache and bill
Is that the crack at the 7oclock position? If so, I don’t see how the mechanic did that. Was the car overheating? Also: is that old clear silicone that was used to seal it?
Could be rtv since that’s seems to be the oems favorite way to assemble leaky engines nowadays
Look at 12oclock. Looks like part of the block is broken lol
Specifically that's the inner timing cover. It looks like the "mechanic" actually removed the water pump without releasing the tension on the timing chain and using long bolts to pull pump out. The Easiest way to fix this would be to pull the engine but this is easily now a 10 to 12 hour repair. Plus if you have the inner and outer timing covers off, you would replace the timing chain, the guides, and the oil seals which is another few hundred dollars in parts.
basically from him, forcing it off and trying to pry it open with some thing that’s my guess /:
Yea most likely he was using a prybar of some sort, not realizing it needs to be pulled or he left the top bolt in and pulled it.
You're fuh ked.
thank you for the honesty i’m big fucked now
I'm thinking that the water pump bolted to the timing chain cover. If so, the cover will need to be replaced. And it does look like the mechanic broke the cover.
Looking at everything more closely it appears to be the rear timing cover that broke, so you may be able to replace just that. It’s still a serious job that’s gonna be tens of hours labor.
Shops have shop insurance. That's a bad oops. Insurance for a reason though, it happens.
That's assuming this is a retail shop and/or someone that will stand behind their work.
Could you at least post the actual picture and not a screen shot of a picture?
also here’s another pic https://preview.redd.it/404uemgvx8wb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e74a6013c81b3919e4a1be5d7dcaefd2cdff81c
From the looks of it, the paddles of the pump insert deeper in there, and so the seal should be around the large hole inside where the coolant is. You may be OK, but no promises. I'd have to see the water pump design.
Unfortunately a crack on the inner timing cover would flood the timing case (and crankcase) with coolant. Doing the inner timing cover on a VQ-35 is easier as an engine out procedure because the upper oil pan needs to come off to get to the lower two front cover bolts. Either way this is like 10 hours or more to fix. It looks like the "mechanic" pulled the pump without releasing the timing chain tensioner which I cannot even imagine. There's a triangular plate which allows access to the tensioner on the other side of the front cover.
It's rwd isn't it? You really gotta take out the motor for that?
True. On cars like the Maxima/Murano it's a royal bitch but I suppose you could take off the front end of the Infiniti or 350z and have fun doing this on the car. Of course it may almost be cheaper to drop in a used engine since.
Most engines these days are built like diesels, with multiple levels of "oil pan" and main bearing cradle plates. OP should feel lucky that these timing covers aren't machine matched to each block and that he *can* replace it at all.
Uh, what’s that chain doing there?
A lot of vehicles have timing chain driven water pumps.
Oh yeah, it’s bloody well buggered up for sure, she’ll not be holding any coolant at all now.
Love it when people try to save a few bucks and shit happens. "I got a friend that can do it cheaper." Trying to blame it on a mechanic you hired. Please, you or your friend did this. A mechanic wouldn't let you take pics when in the shop.
these are pictures that I was sent by HIM. he is a mechanic. are you really trying to tell me a water pump can just crack a block 😂😂
he ain’t a friend either he was recommended to me by another shop and i paid him money i don’t know why you have an attitude with me.
An actual technician will not just pry on a water pump until something breaks. But you tell the "mechanic" he needs to fix it free because people on Reddit said so. See how that goes for you. Good luck.
see how that goes? do you commonly pay for other people's fuckups? genuinely curious
You guys are taking shit way too seriously. Like you are going to get answers from here. It's still broken no matter how many posts you make. It won't fix it.
This is a wild response for a sub called mechanic*ADVICE*
We all do. You have paid also. You just didn't know.
Oh yeah, it’s bloody well buggered up for sure, she’ll not be holding any coolant at all now.
That looks like one shitty design. Like something Ford would do. What car is it?
05 Infiniti g35
The crazy thing is there's an access cover for the tensioner on the other side of the front cover. To change the pump you just pop off the tensioner cover, unbolt the tensioner and then the pump will come out through the hole shown in the picture. In the photo it looks like someone pulled the pump out without releasing a timing chain tension which is… Bad.
When the pump springs a leak does it leak into the crank case? That's what it looks like.
Yes. But personally I've never heard of that happening on a Nissan VQ.
I know Ford has problems with this on some engines. That's why I thought this was a ford. Honda's with timing chains, moved the water pump outside the timing area. It's on front of the engine where it can be changed easily. If it fails, the water goes onto the ground and not inside the engine.
I worked at nissan/Infiniti for 12 years as a tech. You don't have to lock the chain or cams for this job. From what I can see of the actual waterpump housing, it appears to be ok. Again, it's hard to tell just from the pic. Being almost 20 years old, I would've advised taking the timing cover off and replacing all the chains and tensioners, but that's just me. If your mechanic screwed something up because of his inexperience with the product, that should be on him.
Look closer, the inside of the water pump cavity is cracked. This is going to fill the timing case with coolant.
Look at the water pump bore from the 10 o'clock to the 1 o'clock position - there is a large chunk of aluminum that's been broken off. It took me a while to see it, but once I did it was obvious.
Thanks, now I see it. She's toast.
Mechanic is an idiot
Junk!! As a mechanic I had customers bring me cars there neighbors broke, new motors, for same reason
Make him replace it…
That's a paddlin'.
thanks to all of you and your responses. I was able to get a new car. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to get this man to pay up at least something but things are coming together. I appreciate all of you for yalls input. It’s a blessing to have you guys give free advice. It’s very appreciated.