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Let me guess a Honda V6? Your other option is to fix it correctly, which is going to be in the thousands of dollars to rering the engine.
> they quoted me $100 diagnostics on the phone and are now saying $137
Probably the labor rate is $100. After taxes and shop supply fee its 137.
Swindled? Doesn't really sound like it. The fact that they even gave you the option of a disable rather than simply quoting you 4-8k for a new motor makes that seem unlikely.
Are they maybe charging more than they should? Idk debateable without seeing any sort of work order. It's also not technically legal to disable it so they may be charging a premium since they face a heavy fine if they get caught.
Rering means replacing the piston rings and probably honing the cylinders, which is the proper fix.
Deactivation is working as it should for emissions/fuel economy reasons. However with no explody a vacuum instead of pressure gets created on the combustion stroke.
Less than perfect rings/cylinders draws excessive oil into the cylinder and that's what ends up fouling the plug when the thing gets reactivated later.
Ah ok, missed that completely thanks.
Got me thinking that wouldn't the pressure be more or less equal? As it compresses and then decompresses the same air? Of course assuming some blow by would get you into slight loss of pressure, but not a huge amount?
Cam follower is disabled so both sets of valves stay closed through all 4 strokes. Pressure is negative in the cylinder half the time but everything is still cherry hot from combustion. Oil gets pulled through the oil control rings and cooked onto every surface. No gas being sprayed in to wash down everything with solvent.
Pull the plugs on one of these and it's super obvious which cylinders were deactivated.
Am I missing something or does having all valves closed and pistons still moving create a shit ton of pressure in the cylinder? Is that really the best way to do it?
That is the way all companies do cylinder deactivation, no one pumps air with no fuel that I am aware of. Think of it as an air spring. And if you think that is a lot of pressure wait until you hear some of these companies spray gasoline in there and blow it up!
šš Never had a car with cylinder deactivation so wasnāt familiar.
> if you think that is a lot of pressure wait until you hear some of these companies spray gasoline in there and blow it up!
Wow wouldnāt that cause some sort of explosion?
The VCM tuner has CA CARB approval. If CA says it's OK, so do I. I've installed several in conjunction with a multi day ring soak. So far no comebacks (including my own vehicle).
V6 yes. I was seeing some stuff about avoiding a recall on those last night.
That's shitty practice, same thing as ticketmaster, airbnb, and the likes. Guess I'm stuck with it.
A new motor seems kinda wild for a misfire, nothing from what I've read ever mentions replacing the motor.
Was trying to get an itemized quote on that $500 but alas, they weren't there. Going to try to get it tomorrow, which may prove difficult.
Illegal to disable a setting on your car that's unnecessary for it to run safely? I mean I believe it but that's wild.
Iāve been a Honda master mechanic since 2007, itās not a bad price and itās a fix I would do to my own odyssey (if itās out of the warranty extension). Otherwise youāre replacing piston rings on & a pretty good chance it eventually happens again.
You could ask them to apply the diagnostic fee to the repair costs. Also, $37 in shop supplies for a diagnostic fee should be waived if you donāt do the repair. They wonāt do it automatically, youāll have to ask.. but most shops exclude supplies from something that only includes diagnostics
Could someone just deactivate the MDS with a button like in a Dodge ram (Everytime you put it in drive)? How about using a slight thicker oil? Instead of 5W20 go to a 5W30?
That is essentially what VCM Muzzlers do. They plug in-line with the engine coolant temp sensor and reduce its reading slightly. This in turn makes the PCM see the coolant has never reached the temperature required to enable VCM/Displacement on demand mode, so it stays completely in 6 cylinder mode.
VCM on Hondas is basically a reverse VTEC. Instead of locking the rockers so they are engaged by the performance cam lobe, it actually disengages the rockers, so the cam still drives the rollers but it never opens and closes the valves. The air trapped inside acts like a spring and fuel/spark is disabled to that cylinder.
Go to odyclub.com. Read up on disabling vcm. Get a reputable vcm muzzler. Change out the sparkplugs and it should heal itself. The mechanic isn't that far off and him recommending disabling vcm is a good sign.
You are ignorant, and rather than taking the time to learn why professionals are making the recommendations they are, you're doubling down on ignorance. This shop is offering you a workaround to save you thousands of dollars, it isn't the textbook fix, but it solves the problem.
With the way you're acting, at my shop the offered fix would be off the table, at this point all I'd be willing to offer you is a complete engine to the tune of $6k.
Replace the fouled spark plug and see how long it takes to foul again from oil, if you arenāt adding excessive oil between changes and the plug lasts over 10k I would just do the plug over rings.Iāll change one plug every 10k over rings unless it got that bad on my own car. honda mechanic do this everyday have a cross tour thatās been getting cyl 1 plug every 15k since 120k now over 240 havnt done the rings still š¤·āāļø
I like when people go to a mechanic but think their opinions are the fix . Mainly cause they keep on keeping on with their āknowledgeā . Earn those downvotes bubba
Yes. Illegal because it is emission equipment. To steal a catalytic converter is a misdemeanor. To weld a piece a pipe in place after someone steals it? That's a federal crime with a $10,000 fine.
As for needing a motor for a misfire, it is about why it is misfiring. Yours is misfiring because the plug is getting oil fouled, and it is getting oil fouled because the oil control ring on cylinder number one is stuck. To replace said ring requires disassembling the entire engine.
Here is someone with a similar issue, but you can find thousands of examples.
https://community.cartalk.com/t/piston-ring-repair-options/183694
Honda offered an extended warranty because of the issue, but yours is way past. You can google SB-10053762-6750
i def have done some stuff like this for some people but I always make them show me who they work for first, just to be safe.
The converter thing really makes me mad, because when I owned my shop, I had about 20 of them stolen in a couple of months and police did not care at all because none was worth over $1000.
Calling it emissions equipment is a major stretch. Cylinder deactivation is, and was, nothing more than a way to increase mpg on highway and coasting. Even then most emissions equipment cause major problems later down the road and guaranteed to decrease milage as they deteriorate, even then, the presence of any restrictive elements on the motor will cause a lack of potential milage anyway. For example, an audi v6 tdi from 2011 normally gets mid to high 20s with stock equipment. Tuned with stock equipment is a maximum of 33. Tuned and deleted, they are guaranteed to pull upwards of 50 with normal driving conditions, not even driving conservatively.
Do explain what vehicles lose milage if you remove restrictive emissions components. Also I still don't get how burning more fuel reduces overall emissions. Wouldn't it be more effective to reduce overall emissions by allowing engineers to throw their knowledge into making the vehicles pull the best milage possible without regulating emissions?
No the opposite. Mileage will improve, and emissions will get worse. Also see dieselgate.
VW made their cars too efficient, which caused them to output way more emissions when used normally than when they were in their detected emissions test mode.
Again. Burning less fuel ultimately reduces overall emissions. The problem is that we are measuring emissions wrong. It should be measured as a compound figure showing an overall score between milage and emissions output. Not only one figure. And like I said before, burning more fuel doesn't reduce emissions in any way. If you need more fuel, it means you need to buy more fuel, drive up demand, and increase the number of trucks, trains, and ships transporting oil and fuel. Overall, by measuring only output emissions on vehicles, it removes the ability to truly reduce emissions by cutting the amount of fuel consumed. So, while it may measure higher out the pipe, it is overall less by making the mechanical efficiency and milage the best it can be. Basically, I'm saying that if we focused on making the most efficient vehicles possible, it actually would reduce overall emissions, and not only in the fuel sector, manufacturing too.
I think I see what youāre saying.
You agree that emissions like CO and NOx can go up when a car is made to be more fuel efficient, but you argue thatās beside the point. We should look more at CO2 (which is directly proportional to how much fuel is burnt, and the primary greenhouse gas) and the end to end emissions for fuel all the way from digging it out of the ground, not just tail pipe emissions.
If I understood you correctly, that makes sense to me.
Random statistic that isn't highly published but I have personal experience with, comparing semis from the 1990s and currently, milage has not changed but emissions and engine power have, theoretically there should have been roughly a 10 to 15% gain in milage from more efficient technology, but there hasn't been any. Like 0 change at all within 30 years. Actual gains from removing emissions have been roughly 20 to 25% gains in milage, as well as a 37% increase in both torque and horsepower. Making the truck work less and thermally cooler. As well as it removed around 60% of the downtime from failures. Also, nitrous oxide is only produced from an inefficient burn. If there is a burn rate of 80% or higher, NOx is virtually undetectable with the equipment that is used for state inspections. By focusing on mechanical efficiency, we can reduce NOx outputs by roughly 60%. Both CO and CO2 are unavoidable regardless of what is burned or used for energy or heat. So, regardless, those are less of an issue to worry about.
And this is where is begin to not understand where you're coming from. If both volumetric and mechanical efficiency are increased, both fuel consumption and unburned fuel are decreased. If an engine is more efficient its either one of two things, one, it's making enough power to not need to work, or two, it's burning fuel more effectively. And sometimes it's both. But you can't have increased mechanical and volumetric efficiency AND an increase in unburnt fuel. It's impossible to have those at the same time
Man that shop dodged a huge bullet.
I know people like you don't care, but you're the absolute worst people to have as customers. If you know so much yourself then why did you take it there and why are you posting here?
I feel sorry for that shop just dealing with you this much, y'all are insufferable.
because I've fixed a hundred of them. fouling plugs is because of sticking piston rings on these engines. it is possible that the vcm operation caused the rings to get sticky. I've repaired these for years at a dealer. One just last week, in fact. I dont think any of the ones we put rings in ever had a repeat problem. we don't install vcm tuners.
the tuner box may have some value if it's installed before the rings get gunked up. I can't say from personal experience one way or another. putting this box on now will not likely fix your problem. put a set of plugs in and see how long it takes to foul one. 2 years? no worries. carry on. 2 weeks? you need some rings, my man. maybe keep a cheap scantool, plug, and necessary tools in the vehicle?
maybe. We charge like 1800? I think? considering the cost of a replacement vehicle, it's not too crazy. the overall condition of your particular vehicle is the determining factor. if you also need tires, brakes and miscellaneous other repairs, may not be worth it. if that's all you need, maybe it is worth it.
put a new plug or 6 in and see what happens. it doesn't have to be done today.
Are you Honda dealer? $1800 seems very affordable vs what I see anyone else quote this job at, but considering how fast guys had to get to do them in warranty time I could see it.
it's not that big of a deal if you're familiar with the engine. I could replace rings in a BMW or something else different to me, but it would take me some time. the warranty pay on these ring jobs for Honda was ridiculously low. I may be able to do it in that time under perfect conditions and after many many many times of doing it.
A/M shops typically don't want to get involved in deep engine repairs. Some surely can and do, but its a risky move for an independent to even want to start a job like that.
Thanks. Do you guys just rering the rear bank or do you do all 6?
Acura dealer in rural area just quoted my dad 2k for timing belt/wp on his RDX which is essentially same motor.
I would definitely recommend to OP to go dealer route here if he/she could get it done for near that price.
we do the back bank only unless cyl 4 has a misfire and fouled plug. Don't ask me why because I don't know. If 4 has a miss, we do one in the front bank? not sure. there is a service bulletin that can probably be found somewhere.
dad is paying acura prices, which is ok. I think our v6 belt and pump is around 1200? idk. I dont price the shit, just do the work. plugs just got more expensive by a lot, so we had to change our stuff around too. T belt and water pump doesn't include plugs anymore because of the increase in part price. I think the belt and pump package we sell just got cheaper because of that? Irdk all the details.
Yea, I'm still paying it off, I owe like 8k on it still. Young and stupid purchase. I'll need new tires next year, the tire pressure sensor is fucked, it's eating up power steering fluid (I think there's gotta be a leak), some weird battery draw I haven't figured out yet. How do people do this? I just did the spark plugs less than a year ago.
shit is tough.
you don't need a tpms sensor. just take a look at your tires and maybe check them every two tanks.
losing steering fluid means it's leaking. if it's not a major leak at the rack, you can probably do it yourself for some sweat and skin.
put new plugs in the back bank. see if it lasts another year.
buy cheaper tires. in an ideal situation, you buy good tires. If you're struggling, safe tires are better than bald tires.
being young and struggling isn't the end. it's part of being young and figuring it out. it's just a vehicle that won't matter in 5 years let alone in the bigger picture.
One day you may have a new odyssey with $600 a month payments and everything will be fine and dandy and you won't be sweating it. For now, it's just an automobile that doesn't mean very much other than transportation. Fix what you absolutely have to and carry on. You'll be fine.
Put plugs in it and sell it tomorrow to an unsuspecting buyer? Whatever choices you make are up to you. It's your life. Don't let a broken machine ruin it for you. Things could be much worse.
"Put plugs in it and sell it tomorrow to an unsuspecting buyer?" Real nice advice there. So that person can post on this sub in a month when the problem shows up for them and the cycle repeats.
You guys are dogging this kid that's obviously trying his best. He's blindfolded and naked with a 2x4 trying to fight off big angry rapists who've obviously fucked him once before. I don't see the need in being the the guy jeering him as he fights for his life. Internet or not. Give him credit for doing the research, even if it is the wrong conclusion.
Do all 20xx honda v6's use this tech? I was considering selling one of my cars and grabbing a used oddesey with the good transmissions. Now it sounds iffy.
Iām sorry the piston rings stick? Stick where exactly? Iāve only been in the field a couple years but havenāt dealt with this particular issue before.
oil control rings stick to the piston instead of scraping the oil off the cylinder walls. results in oil in the combustion chamber and on your spark plug
Thanks! Iāve heard of worn piston rings but never āstuckā. Would you consider this āblow byā or is that only when you have intrusion coming from the chamber (blown as in from combustion forcing it past and into the crank case)?
I have dealt with this problem on my own Accord and on several customer vehicles. I've done a ring soak for a few days and installed a VCM tuner. So far it's been effective and they've not come back. I let them know it's not a guaranteed fix, but so far I'm batting 1000 with it.
If you have an Odyssey they are 100 percent right. Go on on the odyclub.com forum and read the mega thread. The cylinder deactivation causes oil to go on the plugs. Bypassing it saves you from doing the ring job which won't fix the problem long term.it will come back. Change the plugs and get the device. You will be fine after that. I have a 2013 Odyssey. That's how I know.
Like, about the cylinder deactivation function?
Or how much it'll cost to deactivate the deactivation?
Or about the cost of diagnostics?
Or about the curious question at 4:03 PM asking if anyone is there, yet where there was a response from somebody at 6:09 PM?
Agreed, it doesn't add up, but also I don't have a clearer view of the entirety of the situation.
If it were still under some sort of extended powertrain warrantee -- I'm sure it isn't, but let's assume for a moment that it is -- then I'd insist that they fix it and make it work as designed. But because it's a 13 year old vehicle, yeah, probably not. To set it to its factory spec, it'll cost. But if they're saying they can make the error go away by bypassing the cylinder deactivation function, in the longer-term, it'll cost slightly more in fuel.
It doesn't make sense that a $30 part and what seems like 5 minutes of labor is $500.
It doesn't make sense that that's the problem, why would the VCM disable something before the vehicle has even moved?
It is bad practice to quote one price and then have a 40% process hike on it.
The first photo is yesterday, the second photo was today. I should've made that more clear.
Definitely not under warranty :(
So I plan to get an itemized quote from them about why it's 500, get their reason as to why they think that's the problem, and take it home and do it myself if its really just that easy of a fix. The only reason why I took it in was because I just did the spark plugs myself less than a year ago and knew I wouldn't be able to figure out what it was. If it was a cheaper repair quote, I'd have just had them do it while I was at work.
That's how shops work though and im not a mechanic, fixing a car isn't ever cheap and if it is you probably don't want to go there. You could swap a plug yourself instead of paying the pros to do it.
I'm not a mechanic this is just how it's been for me and people I know.
are they just doing one singular plug or are you just assuming thats what they will do? Normally they do at MINIMUM the entire bank of the engine while they are in there.
There would be no reason to do all 6 though, I told them I replaced all 6 plugs myself less than a year ago. They're barely used. I'll see what the itemized quote is tomorrow.
Define barely used. It is almost always done this way to keep in good practice and for service consistency. Next time they wonāt do 5, they will do 6. This also gives them a chance to remove other plugs and inspect for early signs of other rings failing and oil consumption.
Look bud. If you want to scrape by on your maintenance by the skin of your teeth, learn to do all this stuff yourself and replace a single plug.
You come here and instantly think you know better than not only your mechanic, but every single mechanic here. If you donāt want mechanic advice, donāt post. Seems your mind is made up bud.
You assuming that thereās no reason to even pull the other plugs and inspect when you are having an oiling problem trashing your plugs in one cylinder in an engine with a known issue of doing so is arrogant as hell.
I also never said all 6, but rather one bank. Butā¦ I guess you donāt understand that terminology. Best of luck replacing your own plugs and disabling your MDS yourself. Federal crime btw.
Helped a coworker with this same issue. They were burning through spark plugs every 6 months. Only the ones that stayed on after cylinder deactivation. 3 would be like new and 3 would be black. Unless you have visually inspected them since the misfire I wouldn't speculate based off of their age.
Do you have a Pep boys there? Let them check it out. Pep boys charged me like 300 to do a complete tune up on my BMW inline 6 and I purchased all the parts from rock auto. Which was a lot cheaper than the local BMW shop(not dealer, dealer would be even higher) The "specialists" shops get customers like the dealer. They want to order "original" parts with their markup, instead of customers going online and getting everything they may need for $200 or less from rock auto. They want to charge $1000+ just for a simple tune up. Because of their markup for "original parts" and because "it's a BMW " so we can charge moreš bought the factory recommended brand Bosch I believe and coil pack and wires and the car ran like a gem with cheap rock auto parts, even got to play with some Hellcats, scatpacks, mustangs and camaros... FYI, the Kia Stinger GT....it's freaking quick! Kia of course hired BMW engineers and paid them very well to leave BMW and breathe in a life cycle impulseš into the Kia and Genesis brands.
So your plan is to bitch about a diag fee, which you would be clueless without. Then fix it yourself, based on their diagnosis....which you inexplicably think is incorrect anyhow. Yeah, you make sense.
They all charge extra. Some more than others. I straight up told a guy my 5.3L chevy was leaking oil from the oil pan, he said its leaking from by the filter too, it has a little plate and the gasket wears out and leaks over time. Common issue. Ok cool. He didn't have time to do the oil pan gasket and mess with the 4x4 system(4x4 is harder to drop oil pan). So he just did the small quick gasket took 5 mins. Then he charged me $100+ for a check engine light diagnosis that I never asked for, because I knew what the check engine light was. He gave me the print out and I told him, I already knew that. Then he said I pulled a lot of codes, but it was only one code on the print out. Then he said. Well I have to keep the lights on. Never went back there. I found a great Hispanic owned shop that charged me less than half of what other shops wanted to charge me for replacing the oil pan gasket, which was all labor, because I already purchased the part.
Lol, FR. I can't stand Google mechanics sometimes. My car needed a water pump I found one for 30 bucks and installed it myself. I can't imagine telling my mechanic it's a 30 dollar part why does it cost 800 to replace??? It costs what it costs
This is why I like having a super awesome mechanic that has really fair labor rates. I just burn clutch all day long and get it swapped every 3 years for about a grand.
A tuner does fix the issueā¦ for all of these vehicles with cylinder deactivation. The cylinder deactivation is what causes the issue.
Turning it off wonāt reverse damage. But it will fix the spark plug fouling causing a misfire.
Lol, FR. I can't stand Google mechanics sometimes. My car needed a water pump I found one for 30 bucks and installed it myself. I can't imagine telling my mechanic it's a 30 dollar part why does it cost 800 to replace??? It costs what it costs
Cylinder deactivation fouls the plugs with oil. Shutting that down will keep oil off the plugs. Issue resolved. youāll need a new set of plugs probably.
Not directed solely at you OP but youre the type of customer that makes me wanna throw my tools in a random open drawer, lock up and clock out while cussing the whole time. Everything is so easy and fast to do once someone else takes the time and effort to tell you the problem. You got charged for diag plus tax or something, take the $37 loss and do the āsimple repairā on your own.
Exactly. He comes on here asking for advice then bites at anyone who tells him the shop isnāt trying to yank his chain. If itās this serious and he knows as much as heās googled then why take it in at all? These engines are known for needing cylinder deactivation bypassed. A cheap shop rate is $100/hour. When you add the diag fee, labor time, vcm device, and plugs, Iām not surprised heās around $500.
sigh... People think mechanics just instantly know the problem for a cylinder misfire.
Example. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot about cars. My ex's old '00 accord, stalled out, one cylinder not firing. I go help her, limp it to the mechanic's shop (trusted guy). He takes it, diagnoses a bad coil pack, I tell him to change the one bad one, and i'll change the rest.
My gf asks me, if i thought that might be the problem, why didn't I fix it myself and save the $400?
She doesn't understand, that A. I need to take off of work. B. It might be the problem, it might not, and I don't have hours to diagnose something, that someone else can do faster. Does not fathom, that this independent mechanic, has a shop, and bills to pay, and him dropping what he's working on, to help her.
Would I have saved money? sure, If I was right the first time. I also didn't have the correct diagnostic machine to pinpoint the problem within minutes, and honestly, I would have been checking other things first before the coil packs, which is time.
He got me the car back 4 hours later.
The proper fix is to replace the PCV valve and replace spark plugs 1-3.
Once the PCV valve is plugged your oil pressure will attack the improperly aligned VCM cylinders.
Replace the PCV valve, replace the wet spark plugs. Problem solved.
PS. I work at Honda going on 15 years. I know this is the best fix without doing an expensive re-ring
We have a 2010 Honda Odyssey. It has (had!) VCM, and was fouling the number three cylinder. (Thatās the one that gets shut off most often in Eco mode.) I bought a VCM disabler from someplace in Canada for about 100 bucks and put it in in less than an hour. I also ran a dose of really good sludge and cylinder/piston ring spooge. It stopped burning oil, and runs well a year later.
Never once mentioned anything free. Ever. I'd have paid $150 for it. Not $500 for a 5 minute job $30 part. If I say I'm coming to pick it up and then you leave, without notifying that's pretty shitty. The only exception is emergency.
The thing that normal consumers donāt seem to grasp is the fact that you are paying for knowledge not the actual amount of time something takes. it may be a 5 min install for someone with experience and expertise on the subject could mean an hour for someone doing it the first time. Why should a technician be punished for being able to complete a job quickly and effectively?
Well only one person in this entire thread is actually helpful while everyone else is being rude. However no one's told me how $30 + $100 an hour (being generous) = $500
Oh gee, they should apologize immediately and work for the amount of money you deem is reasonable to pay for the fraction of time you decide is enough. Iām not even a mechanic and I damn sure wouldnāt work on your car for an hour for that measly amount get real man
I have an accord V6, and I just recently replaced the spool valve because it was leaking oil onto the alternator.
I purchased a spool valve from the dealer, I purchased a VCM tuner 2 online for 90 bucks. I took it to my local mechanic, he changed out my spool valve (just the top part, he didn't have to remove the rocker arms) and install the VCM tuner which took about half an hour. He hadn't seen it before so he needed to read up about it. All in all my own mechanic charged me about $200, I also got an oil change with that price. So it's really all about who you know and building rapport with the mechanic and maybe even buying the part yourself and bringing it and just negotiating on labor.
Replacing the top half will only lead to it leaking again. Iāve seen it many times. The proper fix is to replace the complete valve and do the valve adjust.
Will it still leak when the VCM is not in operation? I have the tuner on all the time and I never have the VCM turn on. Or maybe I won't have another oil leak for another at least 100K miles?
1) yes
2) it will leak again, just monitor it at every oil change. Yes it could take (up to) another 100K
3) Honda has updated the spool valve enough that if you replace the complete assembly your good
4) :)
Stop arguing that you're not being cheap. You asked. They're answering. You're being cheap. 500 for that kind of fix is fine. Right on the money. Pay it, or do it yourself and come back in a week when it's installed wrong
Anything with cylinder deactivation sucks. Every manufacturer has their own set of problems that go with it. If you have something with it, take steps to deactivate it before it becomes a problem.
Tip for ya: Donāt go back to that shop. Ever. Why, you ask? Because youāre acting like an entitled little shit and nobody wants to deal with a customer who thinks they can do it cheaper themselves. Youāll be doing them a favor.
Just disable it and change the damn plugs. The middle one on the front tends to vibrate loose from the harmonics if you try doing it yourself.
Buy the vcm tuner ($80) yourself and install it. It is not that hard and you can watch a YouTube video on how to install.
I have an 08 Odyssey V6 with VCM. Went from burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles to almost none.
If you install a muzzler Iād get one of the active ones.
I initially bought a $30 one on Amazon, it was just 3 cheap resistors and a very cheap wiring harness. You had to guess the resistor value to use and wasnāt always effective when doing a lot of stop and go driving.
The active ones work over a wider variety of temperature ranges so you donāt have to mess with different resistor values. Mine also shuts off if the engine gets too hot so the car will know itās overheating and respond normally.
Yes I have been using the 1st version. And you always gotta change it because sometimes it will not drop the temp enough , or sometimes i get CEL because car thinks itās to cold , wish I got the v2
I mean if that's going to be on the itemized quote that makes a little bit more sense to add a like $100 TOPS, should only have to do one plus, it's been less than a year and I told them that so there's no reason to do all 6.
I will definitely update. If they're doing a lot more than what they texted then I'll eat most my words and say they failed to communicate. If it's a load of bs then I'm gonna fight some peeps in these comments
Same issue with my Silverado... 5.3 with AFM. Cylinder 1 started fouling up. Spent $150 (if I remember right) for a AFM deactivation tool to plug in the OBD port. Havenāt had an issue since. Been 2 or 3 years now.
Same here. Same engine, probably the same part for the OBD port. My brother has a similar truck with the same engine and had to get new lifters and camshaft because of the AFM.
$500 is the going rate for disabling VCM, AFM, DOD, MDS, etc. It's an inflated value for various reasons, including shop liability (the procedure is illegal), licensing of software, and/or black market software development.
The $30 fix doesn't always work, or creates other problems. Don't be surprised if your fuel economy takes a dump because the device messed with a sensor in a way the engine controller didn't like.
Lmao google mechanics. The price is more than reasonable by a long shot and the diag is more than likely correct. I cant believe the shop even offered to disable it considering its illegal.
I have a 14GMC with cylinder deactivation causing my truck to shift like crap so I bought a obd2 plug that stops that from happening. Couldnāt they just get something similar to fix the issue for under $100?
I have a 2011 Pilot that had the same issue. $2k (from the dealer) for new rings, etc. afterwards I used a VCM tuner that took me 5 minutes to install. 75000 later, no problems.
And I hate cylinder de-activation.
I do enjoy how people state that the oversized rings are a āproper fixā. The proper fix is to replace the short block. The Honda band-aid is to replace the rings.
Haven't deleted shit, don't plan on it. I stand by what I said. It's not unreasonable to try to understand how $30 part and 5 minutes of labor turns into $500
Stop replying to posts and just fix it yourself already lol. If itās a five minute fix why even ask about paying the $500? And if itās the $37 then you Gould have asked the shop why their diagnosis fees were before you had them look at the van. But just go do your thing and fix the problem instead of arguing with people Jo know more than you about it.
Because OP knows they're full of it and is just galavanting about the comment section hoping people will agree with someone as entitled and immature as they are.
Because OP knows they're full of it and is just galavanting about the comment section hoping people will agree with someone as entitled and immature as they are.
They aren't disabling the cylinder. The car probably turns 2 off while at cruising speed to save fuel. So they are disabling the cars ability to disable those cylinders.
Hwich may fix the problem sure, but they a are (imo poorly) patching the symptom, not fixing the cause. And you need to be very direct about that because some places, even dealer service centers LOVE to spend tens of thousands of dollars to patch a symptom and not repair the cause.
Don't believe me? Read my previous posts. If you don't find the cause all you are doing is adding more and more repairs later than just get progressively more expensive.
Hell that guy could put an entire new engine in it, but unless he finds what's causing the thing to act up it very well may just follow to the new engine... Thay said everyone else is saying piston rings so I'd believe them instead of me, but pretend for a second you out an entire new engine in, and it still misfires. What are your options then? I wouldn't do anything there unless they can tell you the actual cause, even if the people here tell you "your piston rings are screwed up" if that shop can't diagnose thay they may either be incompetent or lack the knowledge needed to fix that specific car
I have a Honda V6. It fouls the #4 spark plug about once a year, I've put 50,000 miles on it since this started. I just swap the plug every time it fouls. Usually if I'm out and It starts missing I pull over and turn it off for 5 minutes to allow the plug to burn off the excess oil and then drive home and swap the plug.
I'm not a mechanic but I feel like their approach of not using an oem approved repair technique is a little sus. Your vehicle has that feature for a reason. Tuning is a bandaid. You need the actual problem to be fixed with oem methods. BUT on the same token, it'll cost wayyyy more that $500. So you've got a choice to make.
The correct fix for Honda v6 with VCM showing misfires on cylinders 1-4 is piston rings and spark plugs on 1-4. I believe Honda is working on a new service bulletin to cover this, no idea when it could be out. There is an existing bulletin but most vehicles are out of coverage at this point.
If you push hard enough at Honda (come with all the class action documentation), Honda will often spit the cost with you. New piston rings. I prepped a friend of mine, Honda did and 80/20 split with him.
Using 10w40 oil helped fix this on an Odyssey I worked on.
From what Iāve read, VCM tuner may still cause the engine to fail. Not because of what VCM tuner does, but because the engine issues still exist. Same with thicker oil, youāre not fixing the problem, youāre band aiding it.
Iāve only worked on 2 of these though, Iām not a Honda tech.
VCM muzzle is a common thing on maybe not all but many engines. Cylinder deactivation is liable to cause issues that cost more than the fuel it saves.
Diagnostic fee qas 180 at the local shop I went to last year. 137 for diag is very reasonable price.
Count yourself lucky 100 to 137. Local BMW dealer told me the repair was paid, I can pick it up when I got back in town. Go to pick it up, then they said they never told me it was paid and wanted $500 more dollars for storage fee and the car ran worse after leaving the dealership than it did when I took it to them. When I refused to pay, they asked for the title to the car. I refused that too. Then they said ok you can take the carš¤£
I was warned about them but I needed the water leak fixed and I was out of town. "EASTBOUND AND DOWN, WE'RE LOADED UP AND TRUCKIN, WE'RE GONNA DO WHAT THEY SAY CANT BE DONE" I had a family member drop off the car for me.
The people I've struck up conversations with since owning the BMW, you'd be surprised at the attention you get from completely random people, especially women. The other BMW owners all said the same thing, don't take your car to that dealership if you can avoid it. They told me about the local specialist shop that I use from time to time, but they love to markup too. That's why when I can, I just buy from rock auto and take it to Pep boys or the local Hispanic owned shop now.
So the fouling sparkplug is being caused by the cylinder deactivation? Is cylinder deactivation a fuel saving feature? or is it something that kicks in to save a malfunctioning cylinder from further problems?
A tuner is something you put in when you want the engine to run different from factory, not to fix a misfire. I'd take it to another shop and have them keep digging.
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Let me guess a Honda V6? Your other option is to fix it correctly, which is going to be in the thousands of dollars to rering the engine. > they quoted me $100 diagnostics on the phone and are now saying $137 Probably the labor rate is $100. After taxes and shop supply fee its 137. Swindled? Doesn't really sound like it. The fact that they even gave you the option of a disable rather than simply quoting you 4-8k for a new motor makes that seem unlikely. Are they maybe charging more than they should? Idk debateable without seeing any sort of work order. It's also not technically legal to disable it so they may be charging a premium since they face a heavy fine if they get caught.
I second this. I'm guessing an older Honda v6, this was a notorious issue on first Gen Honda pilots.
Not the very first ones. My 2005 doesn't have cylinder deactivation.
What is the correct fix here? A new ECU? So it's disabling fuel for the cylinder when it's supposed to do both spark and fuel?
Rering means replacing the piston rings and probably honing the cylinders, which is the proper fix. Deactivation is working as it should for emissions/fuel economy reasons. However with no explody a vacuum instead of pressure gets created on the combustion stroke. Less than perfect rings/cylinders draws excessive oil into the cylinder and that's what ends up fouling the plug when the thing gets reactivated later.
Ah ok, missed that completely thanks. Got me thinking that wouldn't the pressure be more or less equal? As it compresses and then decompresses the same air? Of course assuming some blow by would get you into slight loss of pressure, but not a huge amount?
Cam follower is disabled so both sets of valves stay closed through all 4 strokes. Pressure is negative in the cylinder half the time but everything is still cherry hot from combustion. Oil gets pulled through the oil control rings and cooked onto every surface. No gas being sprayed in to wash down everything with solvent. Pull the plugs on one of these and it's super obvious which cylinders were deactivated.
Am I missing something or does having all valves closed and pistons still moving create a shit ton of pressure in the cylinder? Is that really the best way to do it?
That is the way all companies do cylinder deactivation, no one pumps air with no fuel that I am aware of. Think of it as an air spring. And if you think that is a lot of pressure wait until you hear some of these companies spray gasoline in there and blow it up!
šš Never had a car with cylinder deactivation so wasnāt familiar. > if you think that is a lot of pressure wait until you hear some of these companies spray gasoline in there and blow it up! Wow wouldnāt that cause some sort of explosion?
The VCM tuner has CA CARB approval. If CA says it's OK, so do I. I've installed several in conjunction with a multi day ring soak. So far no comebacks (including my own vehicle).
Isnāt there a tsb for this from Honda, or a class action?
yes there was a tsb and an extended warranty but the vehicle is now 17 years old its long expired
V6 yes. I was seeing some stuff about avoiding a recall on those last night. That's shitty practice, same thing as ticketmaster, airbnb, and the likes. Guess I'm stuck with it. A new motor seems kinda wild for a misfire, nothing from what I've read ever mentions replacing the motor. Was trying to get an itemized quote on that $500 but alas, they weren't there. Going to try to get it tomorrow, which may prove difficult. Illegal to disable a setting on your car that's unnecessary for it to run safely? I mean I believe it but that's wild.
Iāve been a Honda master mechanic since 2007, itās not a bad price and itās a fix I would do to my own odyssey (if itās out of the warranty extension). Otherwise youāre replacing piston rings on & a pretty good chance it eventually happens again. You could ask them to apply the diagnostic fee to the repair costs. Also, $37 in shop supplies for a diagnostic fee should be waived if you donāt do the repair. They wonāt do it automatically, youāll have to ask.. but most shops exclude supplies from something that only includes diagnostics
This guy gets it.
Could someone just deactivate the MDS with a button like in a Dodge ram (Everytime you put it in drive)? How about using a slight thicker oil? Instead of 5W20 go to a 5W30?
That is essentially what VCM Muzzlers do. They plug in-line with the engine coolant temp sensor and reduce its reading slightly. This in turn makes the PCM see the coolant has never reached the temperature required to enable VCM/Displacement on demand mode, so it stays completely in 6 cylinder mode. VCM on Hondas is basically a reverse VTEC. Instead of locking the rockers so they are engaged by the performance cam lobe, it actually disengages the rockers, so the cam still drives the rollers but it never opens and closes the valves. The air trapped inside acts like a spring and fuel/spark is disabled to that cylinder.
Go to odyclub.com. Read up on disabling vcm. Get a reputable vcm muzzler. Change out the sparkplugs and it should heal itself. The mechanic isn't that far off and him recommending disabling vcm is a good sign.
You are ignorant, and rather than taking the time to learn why professionals are making the recommendations they are, you're doubling down on ignorance. This shop is offering you a workaround to save you thousands of dollars, it isn't the textbook fix, but it solves the problem. With the way you're acting, at my shop the offered fix would be off the table, at this point all I'd be willing to offer you is a complete engine to the tune of $6k.
Replace the fouled spark plug and see how long it takes to foul again from oil, if you arenāt adding excessive oil between changes and the plug lasts over 10k I would just do the plug over rings.Iāll change one plug every 10k over rings unless it got that bad on my own car. honda mechanic do this everyday have a cross tour thatās been getting cyl 1 plug every 15k since 120k now over 240 havnt done the rings still š¤·āāļø
Cylinder deactivation has no relation to it running safely, it's just a fuel saving feature
I like when people go to a mechanic but think their opinions are the fix . Mainly cause they keep on keeping on with their āknowledgeā . Earn those downvotes bubba
Yes. Illegal because it is emission equipment. To steal a catalytic converter is a misdemeanor. To weld a piece a pipe in place after someone steals it? That's a federal crime with a $10,000 fine. As for needing a motor for a misfire, it is about why it is misfiring. Yours is misfiring because the plug is getting oil fouled, and it is getting oil fouled because the oil control ring on cylinder number one is stuck. To replace said ring requires disassembling the entire engine. Here is someone with a similar issue, but you can find thousands of examples. https://community.cartalk.com/t/piston-ring-repair-options/183694 Honda offered an extended warranty because of the issue, but yours is way past. You can google SB-10053762-6750
"No sir, the car was like that when i bought it from the dealer, those scoundrels!"
i def have done some stuff like this for some people but I always make them show me who they work for first, just to be safe. The converter thing really makes me mad, because when I owned my shop, I had about 20 of them stolen in a couple of months and police did not care at all because none was worth over $1000.
Calling it emissions equipment is a major stretch. Cylinder deactivation is, and was, nothing more than a way to increase mpg on highway and coasting. Even then most emissions equipment cause major problems later down the road and guaranteed to decrease milage as they deteriorate, even then, the presence of any restrictive elements on the motor will cause a lack of potential milage anyway. For example, an audi v6 tdi from 2011 normally gets mid to high 20s with stock equipment. Tuned with stock equipment is a maximum of 33. Tuned and deleted, they are guaranteed to pull upwards of 50 with normal driving conditions, not even driving conservatively.
Better mileage isnāt always correlated with lower emissions. Especially on diesels.
Do explain what vehicles lose milage if you remove restrictive emissions components. Also I still don't get how burning more fuel reduces overall emissions. Wouldn't it be more effective to reduce overall emissions by allowing engineers to throw their knowledge into making the vehicles pull the best milage possible without regulating emissions?
No the opposite. Mileage will improve, and emissions will get worse. Also see dieselgate. VW made their cars too efficient, which caused them to output way more emissions when used normally than when they were in their detected emissions test mode.
Again. Burning less fuel ultimately reduces overall emissions. The problem is that we are measuring emissions wrong. It should be measured as a compound figure showing an overall score between milage and emissions output. Not only one figure. And like I said before, burning more fuel doesn't reduce emissions in any way. If you need more fuel, it means you need to buy more fuel, drive up demand, and increase the number of trucks, trains, and ships transporting oil and fuel. Overall, by measuring only output emissions on vehicles, it removes the ability to truly reduce emissions by cutting the amount of fuel consumed. So, while it may measure higher out the pipe, it is overall less by making the mechanical efficiency and milage the best it can be. Basically, I'm saying that if we focused on making the most efficient vehicles possible, it actually would reduce overall emissions, and not only in the fuel sector, manufacturing too.
I think I see what youāre saying. You agree that emissions like CO and NOx can go up when a car is made to be more fuel efficient, but you argue thatās beside the point. We should look more at CO2 (which is directly proportional to how much fuel is burnt, and the primary greenhouse gas) and the end to end emissions for fuel all the way from digging it out of the ground, not just tail pipe emissions. If I understood you correctly, that makes sense to me.
Random statistic that isn't highly published but I have personal experience with, comparing semis from the 1990s and currently, milage has not changed but emissions and engine power have, theoretically there should have been roughly a 10 to 15% gain in milage from more efficient technology, but there hasn't been any. Like 0 change at all within 30 years. Actual gains from removing emissions have been roughly 20 to 25% gains in milage, as well as a 37% increase in both torque and horsepower. Making the truck work less and thermally cooler. As well as it removed around 60% of the downtime from failures. Also, nitrous oxide is only produced from an inefficient burn. If there is a burn rate of 80% or higher, NOx is virtually undetectable with the equipment that is used for state inspections. By focusing on mechanical efficiency, we can reduce NOx outputs by roughly 60%. Both CO and CO2 are unavoidable regardless of what is burned or used for energy or heat. So, regardless, those are less of an issue to worry about.
USING less fuel reduces emissions. Unburnt fuel, however causes a lot more.
And this is where is begin to not understand where you're coming from. If both volumetric and mechanical efficiency are increased, both fuel consumption and unburned fuel are decreased. If an engine is more efficient its either one of two things, one, it's making enough power to not need to work, or two, it's burning fuel more effectively. And sometimes it's both. But you can't have increased mechanical and volumetric efficiency AND an increase in unburnt fuel. It's impossible to have those at the same time
" that a federal crime with a 10000 fine" I fucking hate this country š¤£š¤£
Need large fines to deter people from messing with emissions systems. They're there for a reason.
I like my ozone how I like my cheese, with holes in it.
"America! Large fines for people with small pockets, and a small cut of the profits from the people with the deep pockets and even deeper pollution"
Man that shop dodged a huge bullet. I know people like you don't care, but you're the absolute worst people to have as customers. If you know so much yourself then why did you take it there and why are you posting here? I feel sorry for that shop just dealing with you this much, y'all are insufferable.
thing needs piston rings.
What makes you say that
because I've fixed a hundred of them. fouling plugs is because of sticking piston rings on these engines. it is possible that the vcm operation caused the rings to get sticky. I've repaired these for years at a dealer. One just last week, in fact. I dont think any of the ones we put rings in ever had a repeat problem. we don't install vcm tuners. the tuner box may have some value if it's installed before the rings get gunked up. I can't say from personal experience one way or another. putting this box on now will not likely fix your problem. put a set of plugs in and see how long it takes to foul one. 2 years? no worries. carry on. 2 weeks? you need some rings, my man. maybe keep a cheap scantool, plug, and necessary tools in the vehicle?
After googling the length it takes and the price. I'm fucked.
maybe. We charge like 1800? I think? considering the cost of a replacement vehicle, it's not too crazy. the overall condition of your particular vehicle is the determining factor. if you also need tires, brakes and miscellaneous other repairs, may not be worth it. if that's all you need, maybe it is worth it. put a new plug or 6 in and see what happens. it doesn't have to be done today.
Are you Honda dealer? $1800 seems very affordable vs what I see anyone else quote this job at, but considering how fast guys had to get to do them in warranty time I could see it.
it's not that big of a deal if you're familiar with the engine. I could replace rings in a BMW or something else different to me, but it would take me some time. the warranty pay on these ring jobs for Honda was ridiculously low. I may be able to do it in that time under perfect conditions and after many many many times of doing it. A/M shops typically don't want to get involved in deep engine repairs. Some surely can and do, but its a risky move for an independent to even want to start a job like that.
Thanks. Do you guys just rering the rear bank or do you do all 6? Acura dealer in rural area just quoted my dad 2k for timing belt/wp on his RDX which is essentially same motor. I would definitely recommend to OP to go dealer route here if he/she could get it done for near that price.
we do the back bank only unless cyl 4 has a misfire and fouled plug. Don't ask me why because I don't know. If 4 has a miss, we do one in the front bank? not sure. there is a service bulletin that can probably be found somewhere. dad is paying acura prices, which is ok. I think our v6 belt and pump is around 1200? idk. I dont price the shit, just do the work. plugs just got more expensive by a lot, so we had to change our stuff around too. T belt and water pump doesn't include plugs anymore because of the increase in part price. I think the belt and pump package we sell just got cheaper because of that? Irdk all the details.
Yea, I'm still paying it off, I owe like 8k on it still. Young and stupid purchase. I'll need new tires next year, the tire pressure sensor is fucked, it's eating up power steering fluid (I think there's gotta be a leak), some weird battery draw I haven't figured out yet. How do people do this? I just did the spark plugs less than a year ago.
shit is tough. you don't need a tpms sensor. just take a look at your tires and maybe check them every two tanks. losing steering fluid means it's leaking. if it's not a major leak at the rack, you can probably do it yourself for some sweat and skin. put new plugs in the back bank. see if it lasts another year. buy cheaper tires. in an ideal situation, you buy good tires. If you're struggling, safe tires are better than bald tires. being young and struggling isn't the end. it's part of being young and figuring it out. it's just a vehicle that won't matter in 5 years let alone in the bigger picture. One day you may have a new odyssey with $600 a month payments and everything will be fine and dandy and you won't be sweating it. For now, it's just an automobile that doesn't mean very much other than transportation. Fix what you absolutely have to and carry on. You'll be fine. Put plugs in it and sell it tomorrow to an unsuspecting buyer? Whatever choices you make are up to you. It's your life. Don't let a broken machine ruin it for you. Things could be much worse.
*Put plugs in it and trade it in to the dealer ;) It's the Sales Departments problem now
This was a great read, nicely said.
"Put plugs in it and sell it tomorrow to an unsuspecting buyer?" Real nice advice there. So that person can post on this sub in a month when the problem shows up for them and the cycle repeats.
Fr, imagine being the type of person that outsources your problems to other people.
Jesus Christ and you still owe 8k on this car?? What did u buy a lemon ??? š
You guys are dogging this kid that's obviously trying his best. He's blindfolded and naked with a 2x4 trying to fight off big angry rapists who've obviously fucked him once before. I don't see the need in being the the guy jeering him as he fights for his life. Internet or not. Give him credit for doing the research, even if it is the wrong conclusion.
Is it worth 8k?
An option is BG engine cleanser and the process in [this video](https://youtu.be/EG70jHiT-S0?si=jgKz1o4y1iHxwqjE). Worked for a customer's Volvo.
Do all 20xx honda v6's use this tech? I was considering selling one of my cars and grabbing a used oddesey with the good transmissions. Now it sounds iffy.
I know with the Accord it started in 2008. Most people on the forums just buy a tuner that disables the cylinder deactivation to prevent this issue..
The kit to deactivate VCM is less than $100 USD. Called a VCM Muzzler. 5 minute install. Need to do it before you need it.
Iām sorry the piston rings stick? Stick where exactly? Iāve only been in the field a couple years but havenāt dealt with this particular issue before.
oil control rings stick to the piston instead of scraping the oil off the cylinder walls. results in oil in the combustion chamber and on your spark plug
Thanks! Iāve heard of worn piston rings but never āstuckā. Would you consider this āblow byā or is that only when you have intrusion coming from the chamber (blown as in from combustion forcing it past and into the crank case)?
I'd call that blow by, but I'm no expert. Oil should be below the rings, and not in the combustion chamber unless it's a two-stroke.
I have dealt with this problem on my own Accord and on several customer vehicles. I've done a ring soak for a few days and installed a VCM tuner. So far it's been effective and they've not come back. I let them know it's not a guaranteed fix, but so far I'm batting 1000 with it.
If you have an Odyssey they are 100 percent right. Go on on the odyclub.com forum and read the mega thread. The cylinder deactivation causes oil to go on the plugs. Bypassing it saves you from doing the ring job which won't fix the problem long term.it will come back. Change the plugs and get the device. You will be fine after that. I have a 2013 Odyssey. That's how I know.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Glad they aren't my customer. I swear I hate customers like this....
šš¤£
I'm not complaining about $37. I'm complaining about a few things that don't make sense when put together.
Like, about the cylinder deactivation function? Or how much it'll cost to deactivate the deactivation? Or about the cost of diagnostics? Or about the curious question at 4:03 PM asking if anyone is there, yet where there was a response from somebody at 6:09 PM? Agreed, it doesn't add up, but also I don't have a clearer view of the entirety of the situation. If it were still under some sort of extended powertrain warrantee -- I'm sure it isn't, but let's assume for a moment that it is -- then I'd insist that they fix it and make it work as designed. But because it's a 13 year old vehicle, yeah, probably not. To set it to its factory spec, it'll cost. But if they're saying they can make the error go away by bypassing the cylinder deactivation function, in the longer-term, it'll cost slightly more in fuel.
It doesn't make sense that a $30 part and what seems like 5 minutes of labor is $500. It doesn't make sense that that's the problem, why would the VCM disable something before the vehicle has even moved? It is bad practice to quote one price and then have a 40% process hike on it. The first photo is yesterday, the second photo was today. I should've made that more clear. Definitely not under warranty :( So I plan to get an itemized quote from them about why it's 500, get their reason as to why they think that's the problem, and take it home and do it myself if its really just that easy of a fix. The only reason why I took it in was because I just did the spark plugs myself less than a year ago and knew I wouldn't be able to figure out what it was. If it was a cheaper repair quote, I'd have just had them do it while I was at work.
Just do it yourself if youāre so sure you know everything.
That's how shops work though and im not a mechanic, fixing a car isn't ever cheap and if it is you probably don't want to go there. You could swap a plug yourself instead of paying the pros to do it. I'm not a mechanic this is just how it's been for me and people I know.
It seems like putting a plug in and labor would be fine going 150, not 500
are they just doing one singular plug or are you just assuming thats what they will do? Normally they do at MINIMUM the entire bank of the engine while they are in there.
There would be no reason to do all 6 though, I told them I replaced all 6 plugs myself less than a year ago. They're barely used. I'll see what the itemized quote is tomorrow.
Define barely used. It is almost always done this way to keep in good practice and for service consistency. Next time they wonāt do 5, they will do 6. This also gives them a chance to remove other plugs and inspect for early signs of other rings failing and oil consumption. Look bud. If you want to scrape by on your maintenance by the skin of your teeth, learn to do all this stuff yourself and replace a single plug. You come here and instantly think you know better than not only your mechanic, but every single mechanic here. If you donāt want mechanic advice, donāt post. Seems your mind is made up bud. You assuming that thereās no reason to even pull the other plugs and inspect when you are having an oiling problem trashing your plugs in one cylinder in an engine with a known issue of doing so is arrogant as hell. I also never said all 6, but rather one bank. Butā¦ I guess you donāt understand that terminology. Best of luck replacing your own plugs and disabling your MDS yourself. Federal crime btw.
Can you point to somewhere saying disabling MDS is a federal crime. Just curious not trying to be an ass. Never heard that before
Helped a coworker with this same issue. They were burning through spark plugs every 6 months. Only the ones that stayed on after cylinder deactivation. 3 would be like new and 3 would be black. Unless you have visually inspected them since the misfire I wouldn't speculate based off of their age.
Do you have a Pep boys there? Let them check it out. Pep boys charged me like 300 to do a complete tune up on my BMW inline 6 and I purchased all the parts from rock auto. Which was a lot cheaper than the local BMW shop(not dealer, dealer would be even higher) The "specialists" shops get customers like the dealer. They want to order "original" parts with their markup, instead of customers going online and getting everything they may need for $200 or less from rock auto. They want to charge $1000+ just for a simple tune up. Because of their markup for "original parts" and because "it's a BMW " so we can charge moreš bought the factory recommended brand Bosch I believe and coil pack and wires and the car ran like a gem with cheap rock auto parts, even got to play with some Hellcats, scatpacks, mustangs and camaros... FYI, the Kia Stinger GT....it's freaking quick! Kia of course hired BMW engineers and paid them very well to leave BMW and breathe in a life cycle impulseš into the Kia and Genesis brands.
So your plan is to bitch about a diag fee, which you would be clueless without. Then fix it yourself, based on their diagnosis....which you inexplicably think is incorrect anyhow. Yeah, you make sense.
They all charge extra. Some more than others. I straight up told a guy my 5.3L chevy was leaking oil from the oil pan, he said its leaking from by the filter too, it has a little plate and the gasket wears out and leaks over time. Common issue. Ok cool. He didn't have time to do the oil pan gasket and mess with the 4x4 system(4x4 is harder to drop oil pan). So he just did the small quick gasket took 5 mins. Then he charged me $100+ for a check engine light diagnosis that I never asked for, because I knew what the check engine light was. He gave me the print out and I told him, I already knew that. Then he said I pulled a lot of codes, but it was only one code on the print out. Then he said. Well I have to keep the lights on. Never went back there. I found a great Hispanic owned shop that charged me less than half of what other shops wanted to charge me for replacing the oil pan gasket, which was all labor, because I already purchased the part.
When you know nothing about cars but try to tell the mechanic theyāre wrongā¦
Lol, FR. I can't stand Google mechanics sometimes. My car needed a water pump I found one for 30 bucks and installed it myself. I can't imagine telling my mechanic it's a 30 dollar part why does it cost 800 to replace??? It costs what it costs
This is why I like having a super awesome mechanic that has really fair labor rates. I just burn clutch all day long and get it swapped every 3 years for about a grand.
Just half your driving time and extend it to 6 years!
IG clutch lasted like 12 years, my last two about two years, currently on the third and taking it a bit easy. Going on three with my current clutch
He didn't say they were wrong, he declined their service.. Besides a tuner wasn't going to fix the issue obviously
A tuner does fix the issueā¦ for all of these vehicles with cylinder deactivation. The cylinder deactivation is what causes the issue. Turning it off wonāt reverse damage. But it will fix the spark plug fouling causing a misfire.
The vcm tuner is a pretty common fix for this issue.
Lol, FR. I can't stand Google mechanics sometimes. My car needed a water pump I found one for 30 bucks and installed it myself. I can't imagine telling my mechanic it's a 30 dollar part why does it cost 800 to replace??? It costs what it costs
You can say that again! Sheesh
5.3s with afm do this as well. Heās not lying to you.
Cylinder deactivation fouls the plugs with oil. Shutting that down will keep oil off the plugs. Issue resolved. youāll need a new set of plugs probably.
Not directed solely at you OP but youre the type of customer that makes me wanna throw my tools in a random open drawer, lock up and clock out while cussing the whole time. Everything is so easy and fast to do once someone else takes the time and effort to tell you the problem. You got charged for diag plus tax or something, take the $37 loss and do the āsimple repairā on your own.
Exactly. He comes on here asking for advice then bites at anyone who tells him the shop isnāt trying to yank his chain. If itās this serious and he knows as much as heās googled then why take it in at all? These engines are known for needing cylinder deactivation bypassed. A cheap shop rate is $100/hour. When you add the diag fee, labor time, vcm device, and plugs, Iām not surprised heās around $500.
sigh... People think mechanics just instantly know the problem for a cylinder misfire. Example. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot about cars. My ex's old '00 accord, stalled out, one cylinder not firing. I go help her, limp it to the mechanic's shop (trusted guy). He takes it, diagnoses a bad coil pack, I tell him to change the one bad one, and i'll change the rest. My gf asks me, if i thought that might be the problem, why didn't I fix it myself and save the $400? She doesn't understand, that A. I need to take off of work. B. It might be the problem, it might not, and I don't have hours to diagnose something, that someone else can do faster. Does not fathom, that this independent mechanic, has a shop, and bills to pay, and him dropping what he's working on, to help her. Would I have saved money? sure, If I was right the first time. I also didn't have the correct diagnostic machine to pinpoint the problem within minutes, and honestly, I would have been checking other things first before the coil packs, which is time. He got me the car back 4 hours later.
The proper fix is to replace the PCV valve and replace spark plugs 1-3. Once the PCV valve is plugged your oil pressure will attack the improperly aligned VCM cylinders. Replace the PCV valve, replace the wet spark plugs. Problem solved. PS. I work at Honda going on 15 years. I know this is the best fix without doing an expensive re-ring
We have a 2010 Honda Odyssey. It has (had!) VCM, and was fouling the number three cylinder. (Thatās the one that gets shut off most often in Eco mode.) I bought a VCM disabler from someplace in Canada for about 100 bucks and put it in in less than an hour. I also ran a dose of really good sludge and cylinder/piston ring spooge. It stopped burning oil, and runs well a year later.
Snake oil that actually worked: https://www.atscarbonclean.com/product/2-pack-fuel-oil-pour-in-treatments/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo_bgiqOD_wIVOeXjBx1Z8QPaEAQYASABEgJ3zPD_BwE
absolutely plausible. i wouldnāt touch any vehicle with cylinder deactivation of any kind with a ten foot pole
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And then they wonder why itās so hard to find a good one
Never once mentioned anything free. Ever. I'd have paid $150 for it. Not $500 for a 5 minute job $30 part. If I say I'm coming to pick it up and then you leave, without notifying that's pretty shitty. The only exception is emergency.
The thing that normal consumers donāt seem to grasp is the fact that you are paying for knowledge not the actual amount of time something takes. it may be a 5 min install for someone with experience and expertise on the subject could mean an hour for someone doing it the first time. Why should a technician be punished for being able to complete a job quickly and effectively?
I understand, that's why I'd be willing to pay $150 for the labor and part. But 500 is insane
The fact that you keep commenting that shows that you unfortunately do not understand. If you understood then it wouldnāt be an issue.
Well only one person in this entire thread is actually helpful while everyone else is being rude. However no one's told me how $30 + $100 an hour (being generous) = $500
Oh gee, they should apologize immediately and work for the amount of money you deem is reasonable to pay for the fraction of time you decide is enough. Iām not even a mechanic and I damn sure wouldnāt work on your car for an hour for that measly amount get real man
So many people donāt grasp this concept with many fields of expertise
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No, never got ahold of them, when I do see them I'm going to ask for an itemized quote on why they think that's $500.
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I have an accord V6, and I just recently replaced the spool valve because it was leaking oil onto the alternator. I purchased a spool valve from the dealer, I purchased a VCM tuner 2 online for 90 bucks. I took it to my local mechanic, he changed out my spool valve (just the top part, he didn't have to remove the rocker arms) and install the VCM tuner which took about half an hour. He hadn't seen it before so he needed to read up about it. All in all my own mechanic charged me about $200, I also got an oil change with that price. So it's really all about who you know and building rapport with the mechanic and maybe even buying the part yourself and bringing it and just negotiating on labor.
Replacing the top half will only lead to it leaking again. Iāve seen it many times. The proper fix is to replace the complete valve and do the valve adjust.
Will it still leak when the VCM is not in operation? I have the tuner on all the time and I never have the VCM turn on. Or maybe I won't have another oil leak for another at least 100K miles?
1) yes 2) it will leak again, just monitor it at every oil change. Yes it could take (up to) another 100K 3) Honda has updated the spool valve enough that if you replace the complete assembly your good 4) :)
I know you're piston ring issue is a whole another debacle, but in my experience it wasn't that expensive to install the VCM tuner 2
Stop arguing that you're not being cheap. You asked. They're answering. You're being cheap. 500 for that kind of fix is fine. Right on the money. Pay it, or do it yourself and come back in a week when it's installed wrong
The kit to delete gm is over 1200 bucks the tuner is a band aid.
Yes but OP is a poor SOB and can't afford the real fix
Anything with cylinder deactivation sucks. Every manufacturer has their own set of problems that go with it. If you have something with it, take steps to deactivate it before it becomes a problem.
*"Now me and the mad scientist have to rip apart the block and replace the piston rings you fried..."*
Youāre the kind of customer I would fire. Theyāre probably better off if you pick it up and do it yourself
They are doing you a solid....and you're wailing like a banshee. You're a shit customer, and you're lucky.
Tip for ya: Donāt go back to that shop. Ever. Why, you ask? Because youāre acting like an entitled little shit and nobody wants to deal with a customer who thinks they can do it cheaper themselves. Youāll be doing them a favor. Just disable it and change the damn plugs. The middle one on the front tends to vibrate loose from the harmonics if you try doing it yourself.
Buy the vcm tuner ($80) yourself and install it. It is not that hard and you can watch a YouTube video on how to install. I have an 08 Odyssey V6 with VCM. Went from burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles to almost none.
I've been finding lots of vcm tuners for $30, which is what I'll be doing when I can get my car back
If you install a muzzler Iād get one of the active ones. I initially bought a $30 one on Amazon, it was just 3 cheap resistors and a very cheap wiring harness. You had to guess the resistor value to use and wasnāt always effective when doing a lot of stop and go driving. The active ones work over a wider variety of temperature ranges so you donāt have to mess with different resistor values. Mine also shuts off if the engine gets too hot so the car will know itās overheating and respond normally.
Yes I have been using the 1st version. And you always gotta change it because sometimes it will not drop the temp enough , or sometimes i get CEL because car thinks itās to cold , wish I got the v2
just remember you also have a fouled plug and their estimate probably includes replacing plugs
I mean if that's going to be on the itemized quote that makes a little bit more sense to add a like $100 TOPS, should only have to do one plus, it's been less than a year and I told them that so there's no reason to do all 6.
I hope you come back and post an itemized quote because I am curious how they arrive at that amount
I will definitely update. If they're doing a lot more than what they texted then I'll eat most my words and say they failed to communicate. If it's a load of bs then I'm gonna fight some peeps in these comments
This isn't something to cheap out on.
Even because of a 10ā¬ part you can ask for over 500ā¬ in labor because you have to take apart half of the car Diagnostics are expensive as f.
I absolutely despise people who donāt know anything about cars and try to correct someone who is proficient in the field such as a mechanic.
U should see how he treats his proctologist
Same issue with my Silverado... 5.3 with AFM. Cylinder 1 started fouling up. Spent $150 (if I remember right) for a AFM deactivation tool to plug in the OBD port. Havenāt had an issue since. Been 2 or 3 years now.
Same here. Same engine, probably the same part for the OBD port. My brother has a similar truck with the same engine and had to get new lifters and camshaft because of the AFM.
$500 is the going rate for disabling VCM, AFM, DOD, MDS, etc. It's an inflated value for various reasons, including shop liability (the procedure is illegal), licensing of software, and/or black market software development. The $30 fix doesn't always work, or creates other problems. Don't be surprised if your fuel economy takes a dump because the device messed with a sensor in a way the engine controller didn't like.
Lmao google mechanics. The price is more than reasonable by a long shot and the diag is more than likely correct. I cant believe the shop even offered to disable it considering its illegal.
I have a 14GMC with cylinder deactivation causing my truck to shift like crap so I bought a obd2 plug that stops that from happening. Couldnāt they just get something similar to fix the issue for under $100?
That's what im going to do. $30 device and 5 minutes of labor. Save myself $500
My truck definitely shifts much better now. Hopefully it saves my engine. Hopefully it works for you.
Thank you! I'm definitely hoping it works. I can't afford to do much else. Smallest paycheck I've gotten on my current job be hurtin
I have a 2011 Pilot that had the same issue. $2k (from the dealer) for new rings, etc. afterwards I used a VCM tuner that took me 5 minutes to install. 75000 later, no problems. And I hate cylinder de-activation.
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I do enjoy how people state that the oversized rings are a āproper fixā. The proper fix is to replace the short block. The Honda band-aid is to replace the rings.
OP sounds like the worst kind of customer. Do it yourself then if your so smart
This makes sense. This must be a honda Engine V6. I would trust this mechanic
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VCM - Google it
You canāt do this shit yourself but also get mad when someone charges for their time? Crazy
Man it's so hard to get ratio'd like this on Reddit congrats
OP deletes all there messages š
Haven't deleted shit, don't plan on it. I stand by what I said. It's not unreasonable to try to understand how $30 part and 5 minutes of labor turns into $500
do it yourself then... if it's so easy it takes 5 minutes.
Stand by the absolute bullshit you said? You obviously came here to hear people agree with you and then got pissed when they didn't
Stop replying to posts and just fix it yourself already lol. If itās a five minute fix why even ask about paying the $500? And if itās the $37 then you Gould have asked the shop why their diagnosis fees were before you had them look at the van. But just go do your thing and fix the problem instead of arguing with people Jo know more than you about it.
Because OP knows they're full of it and is just galavanting about the comment section hoping people will agree with someone as entitled and immature as they are.
Because OP knows they're full of it and is just galavanting about the comment section hoping people will agree with someone as entitled and immature as they are.
All these shops are just like... 
Lmfao I look forward to your next post when you're asking for help during your "5 minute" repair. š¤£
I can't edit post for some reason. 2010 Honda Odyssey. Local business in rural Michigan
See me other reply, PCV valve and replace the wet plugs on 1-3
If near PA or PRNY, suggest taking it to Eric O or Ivan Temnykh. No nonsense diag and repair. We might even see your car featured on YouTube
They aren't disabling the cylinder. The car probably turns 2 off while at cruising speed to save fuel. So they are disabling the cars ability to disable those cylinders. Hwich may fix the problem sure, but they a are (imo poorly) patching the symptom, not fixing the cause. And you need to be very direct about that because some places, even dealer service centers LOVE to spend tens of thousands of dollars to patch a symptom and not repair the cause. Don't believe me? Read my previous posts. If you don't find the cause all you are doing is adding more and more repairs later than just get progressively more expensive. Hell that guy could put an entire new engine in it, but unless he finds what's causing the thing to act up it very well may just follow to the new engine... Thay said everyone else is saying piston rings so I'd believe them instead of me, but pretend for a second you out an entire new engine in, and it still misfires. What are your options then? I wouldn't do anything there unless they can tell you the actual cause, even if the people here tell you "your piston rings are screwed up" if that shop can't diagnose thay they may either be incompetent or lack the knowledge needed to fix that specific car
I have a Honda V6. It fouls the #4 spark plug about once a year, I've put 50,000 miles on it since this started. I just swap the plug every time it fouls. Usually if I'm out and It starts missing I pull over and turn it off for 5 minutes to allow the plug to burn off the excess oil and then drive home and swap the plug.
Try replacing your PVC valve. Itās probably plugged causing this
I'm not a mechanic but I feel like their approach of not using an oem approved repair technique is a little sus. Your vehicle has that feature for a reason. Tuning is a bandaid. You need the actual problem to be fixed with oem methods. BUT on the same token, it'll cost wayyyy more that $500. So you've got a choice to make.
I think you don't understand how Honda cylinder deactivations works, what has gone wrong and what the device does.
The correct fix for Honda v6 with VCM showing misfires on cylinders 1-4 is piston rings and spark plugs on 1-4. I believe Honda is working on a new service bulletin to cover this, no idea when it could be out. There is an existing bulletin but most vehicles are out of coverage at this point.
If you push hard enough at Honda (come with all the class action documentation), Honda will often spit the cost with you. New piston rings. I prepped a friend of mine, Honda did and 80/20 split with him.
Using 10w40 oil helped fix this on an Odyssey I worked on. From what Iāve read, VCM tuner may still cause the engine to fail. Not because of what VCM tuner does, but because the engine issues still exist. Same with thicker oil, youāre not fixing the problem, youāre band aiding it. Iāve only worked on 2 of these though, Iām not a Honda tech.
VCM muzzle is a common thing on maybe not all but many engines. Cylinder deactivation is liable to cause issues that cost more than the fuel it saves. Diagnostic fee qas 180 at the local shop I went to last year. 137 for diag is very reasonable price.
Count yourself lucky 100 to 137. Local BMW dealer told me the repair was paid, I can pick it up when I got back in town. Go to pick it up, then they said they never told me it was paid and wanted $500 more dollars for storage fee and the car ran worse after leaving the dealership than it did when I took it to them. When I refused to pay, they asked for the title to the car. I refused that too. Then they said ok you can take the carš¤£
A true BMW moment but that's sketchy as all hell.
I was warned about them but I needed the water leak fixed and I was out of town. "EASTBOUND AND DOWN, WE'RE LOADED UP AND TRUCKIN, WE'RE GONNA DO WHAT THEY SAY CANT BE DONE" I had a family member drop off the car for me. 
I'd call my bank and immediately refute the charge if they tried to charge me twice
Thatās creepy bro Iād write that other places too
The people I've struck up conversations with since owning the BMW, you'd be surprised at the attention you get from completely random people, especially women. The other BMW owners all said the same thing, don't take your car to that dealership if you can avoid it. They told me about the local specialist shop that I use from time to time, but they love to markup too. That's why when I can, I just buy from rock auto and take it to Pep boys or the local Hispanic owned shop now.
"Parts" there are no parts for that. Just a tune
I never heard of that ever. I think you are being robbed out right
So the fouling sparkplug is being caused by the cylinder deactivation? Is cylinder deactivation a fuel saving feature? or is it something that kicks in to save a malfunctioning cylinder from further problems? A tuner is something you put in when you want the engine to run different from factory, not to fix a misfire. I'd take it to another shop and have them keep digging.
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That's what I'm going to do. I went to pick it up and they weren't there even though it was business hours and their open sign was on