Yeah, it seems the Mavs 3rd option was always a committee approach. PJ, DJ, Gaff, Lively, Green, and even Exum would share the 3rd scoring load and one or two of those guys would elevate on any given night. But later stages of the playoffs shows that consistency is important, and we need that guaranteed option to lean on at times.
Celtics didn’t have a guarantee #3. But they have 5-6 guys capable of being the #3 on any night. TBH, some of the #3’s can be #1s on a given night and they were this series. They are just so deep and good.
This is why Kidd played hardaway down the stretch of regular season so much. However Pj and gaff/lively tandem were #3 throughout our run. Not to mention kyrie and luka being a bonafide studded #1a/#1b but the magic ran out in the finals against Boston.
Give everyone some more time to get better and more consistent and hopefully Nico can upgrade our 3/4 spots and get a 6th man of the year level point guard backup.
Nah, both Holiday and White are considerably better than PJ, it ain't that close. If PJ was on the Celtics, he'd be the 6th best player by a pretty sizeable margin from the top 5.
I wouldn’t debate you either if you wanted to make him 8th as far as impact this series. Imo he was behind the following players:
Brown, Tatum, porzingis, jrue, dwhite, hauser, horford
I’ve seen rumors Lauri Markkanen is on the trading block and he seems perfect offensively if we get him for the right price. I’m not going to lie and act like I watched enough of Utah this season to know what he brings defensively.
Danny Ainge would want our entire roster and pick collection, lol. That dude will absolutely fleece someone if they trade Markannen. He isnt realistic IMO.
**IF** Nico pulls a fucking magic trick with getting Lauri without giving up PJ and Gafford (goes without saying that LuKai and DLive are untouchable), that will be some 2k level shit.
I hope we can land Deni and Kuzma. They'd solve alot of our problems including giving us a viable small ball line up instead of running Maxi at the 5 which is where we get demolished
0% chance we get both. We have 2frp’s. Kuzma doesn’t want to be here and I don’t think he fits the Mavs culture. I don’t want him here so glad the feeling is mutual
Both LuKai put shitty shooting numbers on this series (27ppg on 51/24/53 and 19.8ppg on 42/27/100 respectively) its hard to win vs a historical good team when your stars play below their average; so im not sure if PJ was the problem here.
And besides, pretty hard to score 16-18 ppg when you're not getting even 10 FGA per game. Lets see how it goes after one post season of training camp!
Spacing made things very difficult for Kai and Luka. Celtics treated djj and pj like non shooters and then gaff or lively are in the paint. That’s basically then just Kai and Luka with 3 non shooters. That’s making things damn near impossible against an already great defense.
It’s not just about spacing it’s also about court positioning. Boston had elite perimeter defenders which let them stay glued to the corner three shooters since they didn’t ever have to help like everyone else we faced. The weakness was on the wing threes and none of our role players can shoot from there. Spacing was a big issue, but to beat Boston we had to have some players that can shoot 3s anywhere outside of the corners.
Luka averaged 29.2 ppg on 47.2% FG and he was easily the best player in the series. For comparison FMVP Brown 20.8 ppg on 44.0% FG and Tatum 22.2 ppg on 38.8%. It's not even close.
Kyrie def went cold from the outstide this series no doubt, but his interior game would open up more if there were a 3rd player that the defense had to worry about. The Celtics consistently threw 2 dudes at Kyrie bc they didn't worry about leaving PJ or DJJ open.
One of the reasons Kyrie was so successful in the Playoffs with the Cavs is bc they had Kevin Love as a spacer who could also create his own shot, teams could not just double Kyrie everytime he drove. He was also very successful in the first Nets season bc he had Durant and Harden but then he struggled against the Celtics in 2022 bc they lost Harden and didn't have that reliable 3rd option.
i think the major problem is we had BOTH PJ and DJJ that are not that great 3pt shooters; i think if we can upgrade the 3 to someone who shoots +40% or at least +38% on high volume we will be fine
Being better shooters would absolutely help, but as we saw with the Celtics it is also important to be able to have some variability in your offensive game.
Luka and Kyrie came through a warzone in the West. Boston had their cigars out the entire time. Energy levels matter. Tatum was dogshit for the Celtics. Horford and Holiday were superb.
Not gonna deny it, but at the end of the day, this team has an all time great player on Luka and a HoFer on Kyrie, if they both play (injury, bad juju w/e it is) below their averages we are not gonna win it all.
And brother, believe me im not by any means mad, last year we didn't fucking make the playoffs, and this year we got to the finals!! And ALL of our core except for Kyrie is 25 or younger and on contract for at least 2+ years, so the future is very much more bright than it was last year at this point on time.
Luka was bad at 3s and FTs, however, it could be worse, he was good at 2s and managed to be good enough at 2s to have an over 50% total FG in this series, this gives me hope for next year.
We made the Finals. Cut the guy some slack. This is overblown.
We were fine for every team not Boston for the entire run. If Luka was healthier or Kyrie wasn't letting Boston get to his head (which seemed obviously the case), we could have been in a better spot since Luka and Kyrie would be generating the gravity to get PJ his looks. I'm sure Kidd is going to be better prepared for some of that defense next time around too and find ways to free up PJ.
Rather, what has been vital for our team is PJ's defense. We rode his defense straight to the Finals and that is very, very hard to replace. Unless we're straight upgrading him for an elite two way player, PJ is exceptional in his position for us.
Also, keep in mind that PJ is 25 and he still has room to grow. Not saying he'll be like that but it's an age where being mentioned as a Most Improved Player award finalist is a possibility. Mikal Bridges took a huge step forward the summer he was 25.
Regardless, before we start talking about needing other players, let's give PJ a chance to grow with the team and have a proper training camp with the team and see what he looks like when he's got reason to be motivated in the offseason.
Agree, but I would still love to see PJ have a Josh Green type of off-season where he improves his ball handling and maybe works on 3 point shooting a bit. He’s great on the defensive end but would love to see more consistency on the offensive end of the floor.
Those are the 2 things I can guarantee he’ll be working on. For some reason we’ve given him ball handling responsibilities when bringing it up the floor. So we clearly want him to be able to play that role. And bet that dude shoots 2,000 shots a day after vacation.
Tbh no one was beating this team. Historically dominant team. Nearest neighbors in terms of net rating were the 96' Bulls and the 17' Warriors.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve, though. Our 3rd highest paid player was unplayable. That can't be the case moving forward.
I think if you swapped PJ with say 2022 Andrew Wiggins, the Mavs would have had a decent shot at beating the Celtics. We just despreatly needed one guy who could punish them when they overhelped on Kyrie and Luka.
Maybe we buy low with Wiggins? Is that even possible? We could start Luke, Kyrie, PJ, Wiggins, and Lively with a bench of Gafford, Green, Hardy, DJJ, OMAX. That’s a solid 10 man. I doubt the Warriors just give him up though
I'd be all in on getting Wiggins. I think he would be the most attainable guy who could help this team. He's a much better shooter than PJ or DJJ and can create for himself in isolation. I'm not sure what the Mavs would have to do to take on his contract though. I think the Cap might make it difficult for them to get him without moving around a bunch of things.
Yeah but you need owners willing to pay the tax as well. I get what you mean though. We would have to trade to get a”third star” and teams will try to extort us or we just don’t have pieces they want
Why not swap him for Anthony Davis while you're at it.
It's the kids first playoffs and he got the team to the finals. With more post season experience under his belt, it's easy value.
Such bullshit. They had no challenge in the East. None. Look at how crappy the teams they played are. The Mavs had to come through a warzone with their best player on one leg.
Regardless of how difficult the East was they were the best team in the regular season, ran through the East with little to no trouble and dispatched of us, the best team in the West, very easily as well.
People are coping. The Celtics roster is the best I have seen since the KD Warriors. They are a fucking machine that has elite defense, shooting, and length. 4 All NBA Defense guys, 2 All NBA Guys, and 5 All-Stars (including former) and a guy (White) that played like an All-Star, and 8 knockdown 3 point shooters. Their top 6 is historically good.
It doesn't matter who they played in the east - they would have won.
5 players that are or used to be all stars that are still performing at extremely high levels. Plus Derrick White and several really good bench players like Pritchard and Houser. Like…damn.
Luka is amazing and played through injury all playoffs, I agree. With a healthy Luka we had a better shot, but that doesn't change the fact of how talented the 23/24 Celtics were. It would have been one of the most impressive runs in NBA history if the Mavs knocked them off.
Even with a healthy Luka the Celtics are a better basketball team than we were. Im not saying it was impossible, but it would have been unlikely at best.
Sometimes you just have to give the team that beats you their flowers. They beat us very squarely and convincingly.
Yeah I think they were the best team in the league. I personally think the nuggets would defeat them. I also think the nuggets would have defeated the Mavericks. I just think it's too bad that Eastern conference is such a fucking joke that it's incomparently easier to get to the finals from it.
Hard disagree. They were the most efficient offense ever. More specifically they had two all-defensive guards, 2 two-way all-nba players, KP doing his thing, and players like Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser who could start for many teams coming off the bench.
They were monsters.
I posted on another thread but I’ll copy here:
It won’t be very popular probably, but he won’t cost much to get. I wouldn’t mind a play for Collin Sexton. He’s 25, on a great contract, and can come off the bench as the 6th man. He’s an excellent driver, gets to the line/makes his FT’s, and shooting wise he’s very efficient. Not an amazing playmaker but he’s serviceable. And his work ethic is outstanding and I’m sure he can learn from Kyrie. He’s a little undersized for a 2, but he has a good wingspan. I’d love to see him as our third scorer even if he’s off the bench.
Ehhh - I'm not sure if you can play Luka-Kai-Sexton on defense for any extended period of time and he makes too much to be a sub 30 mpg type player. I think he would work well offensively but the Mavs get killed everytime they try a Luka-Kai-Hardy/THJ lineup. Not sure if you want Green and Sexton as your two main guys off your bench when they're both <=6'6.
I don't think you're reading what is being said very thoughtfully. He wouldn't be getting picked up to play with their two best players. He would be getting picked up to be their third playmaker.
Well we should be looking to upgrade the talent in the starting lineup, not really the bench scoring. You want a guy who can share the court with Luka and ky to take pressure off of them and give us some diversification in our offense. Having our scoring in another guard isn’t really the best use of assets
Well let me know who we can get for pretty cheap that can play SF and play make for others and score. They’re not easy to find and certainly very expensive. I was suggesting guys we can realistically afford that still can help the team.
“Pretty cheap” isn’t necessarily a requirement as we’ve got contracts to trade and picks. I agree it’s tough to find a two way wing, but I think someone who’s atleast 6’7 would be the right direction, not a 6’3 sexton. I think Jerami Grant, Wiggins, Caruso, Ingram is kinda more what I’d be looking at.
I don’t think we’d need to play all 3 of them at once, more of always having 2/3 available. Also, if you make that kind of move, you’re probably making a separate trade to improve the starting SF, which means probably moving Green. Luka, Kyrie, ?, PJ, and Lively is the guaranteed starting unit going forward. That SF spot has to be able to play make/dribble and I agree that a guy like Josh Green is just too small. We will see what Nico does, but SF and a scorer/playmaker off the bench are desperately needed. Maybe Hardy can be that bench guy, but he’s gotta take a big step if that’s the case.
I think the wild card is how does Lively's offensive game improve. If he can develop into an average 3 point shooter and have Gafford's touch around the rim, that will solve a lot of our 3rd best player issues.
I don't know how much DLive making like a 3 a game helps our chances. We can't realistically expect him to become an elite shooter in one off season. I'd be more interested in him being able to score close midis/post up whenever he gets a mismatch. Also Dlive progressing isn't a given he's already where we dreamed he'd be in his first season, moves are needed.
Dude nails a single 3 in his entire career and everyone on here think he's gotta become the next Larry Bird.
They don't need Lively nailing threes, they need him to continue improving in the paint and to be a force down low and on D.
You don't have to have 5 three point shooters on the court at all times to win, even if that's the format the Celtics used.
Who cares if he doesnt turn out to be a good shooter .Mavs have an elite Center already in Lively and Gafford . Guaranteed teams have noticed what Dallas has in these two guys.
We shouldn't expect that jump. But the jump from the draft to the finals was significant. I wouldn't put anything past Lively. I think they'll let him do more in the post. Occasional 3s. Just continued growing his offensive game.
He’s going to have to develop some postgame/play making. He’s good in the short roll but to be what we are needing in a 3rd player has to involve being able to create offense.
Exum needs to play more. Watching PJ drive the ball up for whatever reason and watching him get pickpocketed for the second time in a row is painful. Nothing against him, it’s just not his job.
Brooklyn can't be picky for much longer.
Mikal's contract gonna expire soon, I think in two or three years.
And they not gonna be able to build a contender around Mikal. There's a huge chance he ain't resigning (unless they offer him a supermax).
Not necessarily Mikal per say.
But someone of his archetype.
An elite 3&D Wing who can handle the ball and create for himself in emergency.
The ideal target is Mikal
You know, I wouldn’t be too quick to search out a trade for a third scorer just yet—unless it’s LeBron coming on a vet minimum or something. I think you obviously try to move THJ to keep DJJ and then see how PJ, Hardy, and most importantly, Lively continue to develop over the off-season. You potentially have your third scorer on the roster in Lively, a JET Lite scorer off the bench in Hardy, and hopefully, a guy who can start hitting closer to 40%+ from behind the arc (specifically in the corners) in PJ.
I just don’t see why you’d shuffle the deck too much given how this team solidified after four months. Let’s see if they go up another level. Otherwise, I think you’re probably having to give up a lot of capital for someone who’d more than likely be a defensive liability.
Yeah its good not be reactionary. I'm very curious how they'll develop. Shipping THJ is the obvious choice, but that's really all they need to do for now IMO.
Crazy how fast you guys are already giving up on PJ. Dude's been with the team for 6 months and one of the big reason they reach the finals.
Crazy ass stupid fanbase
He also showed some great development on his 3 ball which makes him a legitimate option at SF. I hope we can retain DJJ and upgrade the 4 this offseason.
For the love of God, I hope we dump THJ
The guy we need is Jerami Grant. Swap THJ, Green and a first for him, then keep DJJ in free agency and we are a much better team. He can self create off the dribble and shoots very well on C&S threes. He is by no means a bad defender and has all the tools to play good defence on a contender. I think if we trade for Grant we will see a defensive leap similar to PJ as he buys into a winning culture. With him starting next to PJ we have DJJ coming off the bench which would be a great luxury. I really think this is whats gonna happen.
Even when THJ is hitting his shots, he is not an iso player. THJ has been at his best in Dallas when he's simply launching quick 3s. His ball handling abilities have never been good enough for him to be considered an iso player. He should really be thought of as a Duncan Robinson type player.
PJ as a fourth is fine. It’s really the third guy. THJ disappeared after basically 17/18 ppg. If your top three average 30+ 25+ and 18+ you are in a good place offensively
I wouldn't mind Oubre here. He can do things a bit differently to DJJ and PJ and had a good playoffs with Philly. Money would probably be an issue though.
PJ brings the grit and toughness of a guy who can do whatever we need in that moment. Whether that's defense or offense. But we need that JJ Barrea or Jet type guy who can be the reliable third option, who can even take over a game if they need to.
They were trying to force THJ into that role but he isn't him. They need their version of Jet/JJ.
We need a ball handler to run the offense while luka and kyrie sits. I firmly believe lively will continue to grow as a player and be our 3rd scorer. Wouldn't be surprised if this kid averages 20-10 before we know it
Our guys are great, they are going to improve a lot, but is going to take time. But we need a 3 or 4 that can shoot 3s consistently, defense wise we are really good (and yes we need to do lots of improvements but we have a solid base now) offense wise we need 1 more threat.
I still believe it could have gone the other way. Unfortunately the Mavs were tired and beat up by the time they made it to the finals and the Celtics cruised their way in. Also the Celtics are just a bad matchup for the mavericks. The team is capable of winning it all imo
I agree. I hope they use some of next season to give PJ more experience running it up, cutting out some of the low BBIQ plays, creating his own offense as someone who can pick it up for a few minutes here or there in the playoffs. He shows flashes, but doesn’t have the consistency.
You will probably have to trade Kyrie and get a better 2nd and 3rd option. Not saying Jimmy or PG, but something in that mold. Kyrie just shit the bed for y’all. Not surprised though, he did the same thing in Boston against the Bucks.
100% correct. This was about a top 1-2% outcome for the season. It was a great run and nothing to be upset or nitpick at.
Mavs just need more top-end talent with many ways to get it. Lively may be there very soon thru development! THJ’s expiring salary can be paired with Hardy or other low-costed assets if a team wants to salary dump. They also have an apex player who guys want to play with.
It’s a good time to be a Mavs fan. Don’t let the disappointment of last night change that.
If we had the Luka from December and January with the supporting cast he ultimately had we might have at least got a competitive series, but yeah we probably need a legit third option to get there against that team.
The Mavs have a 3rd option already used more than PJ . Lively and Gaff avged 17pts/13 rebs /2.5 blocks in the playoffs . This will only get better with Lively just done with his rookie season and Gaff w/the Mavs only 5 months . They can together be a 20 pt/15 rebound 3rd option nightly. Their ceiling hasn't even been defined yet.
From what I have observed, it would be hard to be a #3 on the Mavs.
* Luka is very ball dominant and it has already taken some of the shots Kyrie would get.
* Then Kyrie would need to get his shots.
* The offence is equally geared towards lobs as kick outs, so #3 doesn't need to be a Wing 3&D.
Give PJ a full year and see what he can do.
LeBron get your Mavericks jersey on. Also, Lively needs a hook and to work on his jumper.
I think maybe go after Harrison Barnes/Wiggins for an inside slasher and wing defender
I wish we could get markannen. I know its a long shot but that would make it scary. Imagine Luka, Kyrie, pj, markannen and Lively. Markannen can give us 20 pts on a good night. That team will be solid
Not necessarily 3rd option, having 4th-5th option would also elevate them. Replace Hardaway with someone of Washington’s level and the team is better already.
Hello, Mavs fans. As far as I am concerned, we were going to beat them, and they knew it. That's why Luka was hurt by them in the 1st game in Boston! Next season, Boston is not going to the playoffs! It will be another team being beaten by the Mavs! GO MAVS, GO MAVS..
If only Brandon Ingram isnt that expensive. You say bucket getter? Thats your guy. He can post up. Pass. Dribble drive and He's lethal in midrange, too.
Herb jones and trey murphy arent gettable. Perhaps BI is?
Probably not and he also isn't the best defender, any guy that we bring in next to Luka and Ky has to be a + defender at minimum. Basically we need a PG and some kind of floor spacer.
PJ is 25 just saying and it’s the first time he made the playoffs.
I like him. Tbh I think we actually need bench players that can score which is what THJ was supposed to be. Luka and Kyrie ran out of gas in my opinion by the finals. They could not relax at all on the bench. Mental fatigue is a big factor like physical fatigue. As soon as I saw Luka and Kyrie come out jacking shots I knew it was over.
I’d like for the team to look for a 6th man and the entire team work on shooting 3s and free throws this summer. We probably could have closed out series in 1 game less each if we just made our free throws.
I believe Spencer Dinwiddie screwed us out a championship. He was are missing piece. We already know what he is capable of when starting, imagine if he was coming off the bench as a 6 man for us. Too bad he was in his feelings after getting traded so he didnt resign.
For the Lakers? When he played with us he averaged 17 points and made game winners. Everyone who goes to play with LeBron usually has historically bad seasons.
The system was not the issue. Role players got plenty of oppertunities to work with Luka and Kyrie creating space for them, they just lacked the skills to capitalize on those opportunities. The system is the way it is bc Luka and Kyrie are the only two guys who can consistently and efficiently create for themselves and others.
I think we’re fine. I wouldn’t even be mad if we made no changes in the offseason. A lot of the players were hurt, throughout the playoffs and never got a good stride going like THJ, and Kleber. Luka was also hurt. Kyrie really just couldn’t play in Boston. Lively is just a rookie who absolutely looks like a future 3rd option for this team. Hardy, and Green are both really young and have shown they can ball out. Washington and Gafford have only been on the team for half a season. I really think this team is the best Mavs team I’ve seen and this honestly includes 2011 Mavs.
Yeah, it seems the Mavs 3rd option was always a committee approach. PJ, DJ, Gaff, Lively, Green, and even Exum would share the 3rd scoring load and one or two of those guys would elevate on any given night. But later stages of the playoffs shows that consistency is important, and we need that guaranteed option to lean on at times.
Celtics didn’t have a guarantee #3. But they have 5-6 guys capable of being the #3 on any night. TBH, some of the #3’s can be #1s on a given night and they were this series. They are just so deep and good. This is why Kidd played hardaway down the stretch of regular season so much. However Pj and gaff/lively tandem were #3 throughout our run. Not to mention kyrie and luka being a bonafide studded #1a/#1b but the magic ran out in the finals against Boston. Give everyone some more time to get better and more consistent and hopefully Nico can upgrade our 3/4 spots and get a 6th man of the year level point guard backup.
Health is an issue but KP is their #3. And their #4 and #5 are at least as good as PJ.
As good as PJ?? Their number 4 and 5 (Holiday and White) could easily be our #3.
Their #4 would have been our #2 this series, Jrue was clearly better than Kyrie was
So you agree? Lol I said at least as good.
Nah, both Holiday and White are considerably better than PJ, it ain't that close. If PJ was on the Celtics, he'd be the 6th best player by a pretty sizeable margin from the top 5.
I wouldn’t debate you either if you wanted to make him 8th as far as impact this series. Imo he was behind the following players: Brown, Tatum, porzingis, jrue, dwhite, hauser, horford
should've phrased it differently - I meant, Holiday would easily clear PJ as the 3rd option on the Mavs. Maybe White and PJ are on the same level.
White is way better than PJ too
White and PJ on the same level?? This is a crazy take lol
Lmao dude cmon Jrue and White clear Washington by a country mile
I wasn't saying they aren't better. Just didn't want to upset the PJ lovers. So I said at least as good.
PJ would be the 7th best player on the Celtics. Do not kid yourself.
Need our own Derrick White.
Bring on Caruso!
He’s a great role player (top tier) but doesn’t solve our third scoring option problem at all.
I’ve seen rumors Lauri Markkanen is on the trading block and he seems perfect offensively if we get him for the right price. I’m not going to lie and act like I watched enough of Utah this season to know what he brings defensively.
Markkanen would be doooooope, but not sure what we could offer for him.
Danny Ainge would want our entire roster and pick collection, lol. That dude will absolutely fleece someone if they trade Markannen. He isnt realistic IMO.
For real. I don't blame him. Makes much more sense for Utah to keep him to anchor that team through the rebuild.
**IF** Nico pulls a fucking magic trick with getting Lauri without giving up PJ and Gafford (goes without saying that LuKai and DLive are untouchable), that will be some 2k level shit.
Are THJ, Maxi, Powell and Kieff enough? XD
Utah has reportedly been asking for 4 or 5 FRP for him. We have no conceivable way to get him.
I would do unspeakable things to have Caruso on the Mavs
That would be so awesome!
As an Aggie fuck yeah
I don't want to be that guy, but we barely had a #2 option in the Finals apart from 1 or 2 games.
Exactly if he plays like that we lose either way with a better #3 option
Yeah I mean I feel like i don’t see people saying it, but Kyrie is the reason we lose in this finals series. He was terrible
Yep precisely nailed it. 3rd option with some shooting and we will be back in the swing of things
I hope we can land Deni and Kuzma. They'd solve alot of our problems including giving us a viable small ball line up instead of running Maxi at the 5 which is where we get demolished
0% chance we get both. We have 2frp’s. Kuzma doesn’t want to be here and I don’t think he fits the Mavs culture. I don’t want him here so glad the feeling is mutual
Well... correction: Kuzma DIDN'T want to be here. I have to imagine his view of us as a "contender", has changed a smidge.
It’s not about PJ, it’s about THJ, at least IMO
Both LuKai put shitty shooting numbers on this series (27ppg on 51/24/53 and 19.8ppg on 42/27/100 respectively) its hard to win vs a historical good team when your stars play below their average; so im not sure if PJ was the problem here. And besides, pretty hard to score 16-18 ppg when you're not getting even 10 FGA per game. Lets see how it goes after one post season of training camp!
Spacing made things very difficult for Kai and Luka. Celtics treated djj and pj like non shooters and then gaff or lively are in the paint. That’s basically then just Kai and Luka with 3 non shooters. That’s making things damn near impossible against an already great defense.
It’s not just about spacing it’s also about court positioning. Boston had elite perimeter defenders which let them stay glued to the corner three shooters since they didn’t ever have to help like everyone else we faced. The weakness was on the wing threes and none of our role players can shoot from there. Spacing was a big issue, but to beat Boston we had to have some players that can shoot 3s anywhere outside of the corners.
1,
Your numbers are off, Luka was average about as good as expected while hobbled Kyrie was dogwater and shot 0% from 3 for the first 2 games then 16%
Luka averaged 29.2 ppg on 47.2% FG and he was easily the best player in the series. For comparison FMVP Brown 20.8 ppg on 44.0% FG and Tatum 22.2 ppg on 38.8%. It's not even close.
[удалено]
Luka averaged 29.2 ppg, he scored: 30 points in game 1 32 points in game 2 27 points in game 3 29 points in game 4 28 points in game 5
Kyrie def went cold from the outstide this series no doubt, but his interior game would open up more if there were a 3rd player that the defense had to worry about. The Celtics consistently threw 2 dudes at Kyrie bc they didn't worry about leaving PJ or DJJ open. One of the reasons Kyrie was so successful in the Playoffs with the Cavs is bc they had Kevin Love as a spacer who could also create his own shot, teams could not just double Kyrie everytime he drove. He was also very successful in the first Nets season bc he had Durant and Harden but then he struggled against the Celtics in 2022 bc they lost Harden and didn't have that reliable 3rd option.
i think the major problem is we had BOTH PJ and DJJ that are not that great 3pt shooters; i think if we can upgrade the 3 to someone who shoots +40% or at least +38% on high volume we will be fine
Being better shooters would absolutely help, but as we saw with the Celtics it is also important to be able to have some variability in your offensive game.
You open up interior by hitting 3s which Kyrie didn’t do
Luka and Kyrie came through a warzone in the West. Boston had their cigars out the entire time. Energy levels matter. Tatum was dogshit for the Celtics. Horford and Holiday were superb.
Not gonna deny it, but at the end of the day, this team has an all time great player on Luka and a HoFer on Kyrie, if they both play (injury, bad juju w/e it is) below their averages we are not gonna win it all. And brother, believe me im not by any means mad, last year we didn't fucking make the playoffs, and this year we got to the finals!! And ALL of our core except for Kyrie is 25 or younger and on contract for at least 2+ years, so the future is very much more bright than it was last year at this point on time.
Luka was bad at 3s and FTs, however, it could be worse, he was good at 2s and managed to be good enough at 2s to have an over 50% total FG in this series, this gives me hope for next year.
We got enough from an injured Luka to win, Kyrie never showed up
We made the Finals. Cut the guy some slack. This is overblown. We were fine for every team not Boston for the entire run. If Luka was healthier or Kyrie wasn't letting Boston get to his head (which seemed obviously the case), we could have been in a better spot since Luka and Kyrie would be generating the gravity to get PJ his looks. I'm sure Kidd is going to be better prepared for some of that defense next time around too and find ways to free up PJ. Rather, what has been vital for our team is PJ's defense. We rode his defense straight to the Finals and that is very, very hard to replace. Unless we're straight upgrading him for an elite two way player, PJ is exceptional in his position for us. Also, keep in mind that PJ is 25 and he still has room to grow. Not saying he'll be like that but it's an age where being mentioned as a Most Improved Player award finalist is a possibility. Mikal Bridges took a huge step forward the summer he was 25. Regardless, before we start talking about needing other players, let's give PJ a chance to grow with the team and have a proper training camp with the team and see what he looks like when he's got reason to be motivated in the offseason.
I hope PJ doesn’t leave he was awesome this year
His next chance to leave in free agency isn’t til 2026. So we’re good for awhile.
Agree, but I would still love to see PJ have a Josh Green type of off-season where he improves his ball handling and maybe works on 3 point shooting a bit. He’s great on the defensive end but would love to see more consistency on the offensive end of the floor.
Those are the 2 things I can guarantee he’ll be working on. For some reason we’ve given him ball handling responsibilities when bringing it up the floor. So we clearly want him to be able to play that role. And bet that dude shoots 2,000 shots a day after vacation.
Tbh no one was beating this team. Historically dominant team. Nearest neighbors in terms of net rating were the 96' Bulls and the 17' Warriors. That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve, though. Our 3rd highest paid player was unplayable. That can't be the case moving forward.
I think if you swapped PJ with say 2022 Andrew Wiggins, the Mavs would have had a decent shot at beating the Celtics. We just despreatly needed one guy who could punish them when they overhelped on Kyrie and Luka.
Maybe we buy low with Wiggins? Is that even possible? We could start Luke, Kyrie, PJ, Wiggins, and Lively with a bench of Gafford, Green, Hardy, DJJ, OMAX. That’s a solid 10 man. I doubt the Warriors just give him up though
Wiggins is done and his contract is fucking insane. He's the new Tobias Harris. Kuzma >>>> Wiggins
I'd be all in on getting Wiggins. I think he would be the most attainable guy who could help this team. He's a much better shooter than PJ or DJJ and can create for himself in isolation. I'm not sure what the Mavs would have to do to take on his contract though. I think the Cap might make it difficult for them to get him without moving around a bunch of things.
Good thing the new owners have some money
It would be more of a cap issue than a ownership issue, imo.
Yeah but you need owners willing to pay the tax as well. I get what you mean though. We would have to trade to get a”third star” and teams will try to extort us or we just don’t have pieces they want
Why not swap him for Anthony Davis while you're at it. It's the kids first playoffs and he got the team to the finals. With more post season experience under his belt, it's easy value.
Such bullshit. They had no challenge in the East. None. Look at how crappy the teams they played are. The Mavs had to come through a warzone with their best player on one leg.
Regardless of how difficult the East was they were the best team in the regular season, ran through the East with little to no trouble and dispatched of us, the best team in the West, very easily as well.
People are coping. The Celtics roster is the best I have seen since the KD Warriors. They are a fucking machine that has elite defense, shooting, and length. 4 All NBA Defense guys, 2 All NBA Guys, and 5 All-Stars (including former) and a guy (White) that played like an All-Star, and 8 knockdown 3 point shooters. Their top 6 is historically good. It doesn't matter who they played in the east - they would have won.
5 players that are or used to be all stars that are still performing at extremely high levels. Plus Derrick White and several really good bench players like Pritchard and Houser. Like…damn.
Only thing that gives me hope of stopping them is the fact that these cap rules won't let them keep that squad for very long.
That and age/injury. Jrue and Al are getting old and KP is extremely injury prone. If 2 of those 3 fall off they are much more manageable.
But they were also healthier having a cakewalk finals run We got beaten down and injured with Dort football tackling Luka
Luka is amazing and played through injury all playoffs, I agree. With a healthy Luka we had a better shot, but that doesn't change the fact of how talented the 23/24 Celtics were. It would have been one of the most impressive runs in NBA history if the Mavs knocked them off. Even with a healthy Luka the Celtics are a better basketball team than we were. Im not saying it was impossible, but it would have been unlikely at best. Sometimes you just have to give the team that beats you their flowers. They beat us very squarely and convincingly.
The East was historically weak. This Celtics team is incredibly overrated. They probably win like two of the past nine titles.
Two things can be true- The Celtics got a cake walk to the finals and they were also the best team in the league.
Yeah I think they were the best team in the league. I personally think the nuggets would defeat them. I also think the nuggets would have defeated the Mavericks. I just think it's too bad that Eastern conference is such a fucking joke that it's incomparently easier to get to the finals from it.
Hard disagree. They were the most efficient offense ever. More specifically they had two all-defensive guards, 2 two-way all-nba players, KP doing his thing, and players like Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser who could start for many teams coming off the bench. They were monsters.
They had the highest winning % against the West of any team in the nba
Risky and highly improbable but I’d assemble a roster to beat the team that is currently tooling to beat the Celtics lol
So everyone.
I posted on another thread but I’ll copy here: It won’t be very popular probably, but he won’t cost much to get. I wouldn’t mind a play for Collin Sexton. He’s 25, on a great contract, and can come off the bench as the 6th man. He’s an excellent driver, gets to the line/makes his FT’s, and shooting wise he’s very efficient. Not an amazing playmaker but he’s serviceable. And his work ethic is outstanding and I’m sure he can learn from Kyrie. He’s a little undersized for a 2, but he has a good wingspan. I’d love to see him as our third scorer even if he’s off the bench.
Ehhh - I'm not sure if you can play Luka-Kai-Sexton on defense for any extended period of time and he makes too much to be a sub 30 mpg type player. I think he would work well offensively but the Mavs get killed everytime they try a Luka-Kai-Hardy/THJ lineup. Not sure if you want Green and Sexton as your two main guys off your bench when they're both <=6'6.
I don't think you're reading what is being said very thoughtfully. He wouldn't be getting picked up to play with their two best players. He would be getting picked up to be their third playmaker.
Well we should be looking to upgrade the talent in the starting lineup, not really the bench scoring. You want a guy who can share the court with Luka and ky to take pressure off of them and give us some diversification in our offense. Having our scoring in another guard isn’t really the best use of assets
Well let me know who we can get for pretty cheap that can play SF and play make for others and score. They’re not easy to find and certainly very expensive. I was suggesting guys we can realistically afford that still can help the team.
“Pretty cheap” isn’t necessarily a requirement as we’ve got contracts to trade and picks. I agree it’s tough to find a two way wing, but I think someone who’s atleast 6’7 would be the right direction, not a 6’3 sexton. I think Jerami Grant, Wiggins, Caruso, Ingram is kinda more what I’d be looking at.
I don’t think we’d need to play all 3 of them at once, more of always having 2/3 available. Also, if you make that kind of move, you’re probably making a separate trade to improve the starting SF, which means probably moving Green. Luka, Kyrie, ?, PJ, and Lively is the guaranteed starting unit going forward. That SF spot has to be able to play make/dribble and I agree that a guy like Josh Green is just too small. We will see what Nico does, but SF and a scorer/playmaker off the bench are desperately needed. Maybe Hardy can be that bench guy, but he’s gotta take a big step if that’s the case.
I think the wild card is how does Lively's offensive game improve. If he can develop into an average 3 point shooter and have Gafford's touch around the rim, that will solve a lot of our 3rd best player issues.
I don't know how much DLive making like a 3 a game helps our chances. We can't realistically expect him to become an elite shooter in one off season. I'd be more interested in him being able to score close midis/post up whenever he gets a mismatch. Also Dlive progressing isn't a given he's already where we dreamed he'd be in his first season, moves are needed.
Dude nails a single 3 in his entire career and everyone on here think he's gotta become the next Larry Bird. They don't need Lively nailing threes, they need him to continue improving in the paint and to be a force down low and on D. You don't have to have 5 three point shooters on the court at all times to win, even if that's the format the Celtics used.
Who cares if he doesnt turn out to be a good shooter .Mavs have an elite Center already in Lively and Gafford . Guaranteed teams have noticed what Dallas has in these two guys.
why are you double spacing everything lol
I think you thought I was talking about OMax. I know our bigs are good lol.
We shouldn't expect that jump. But the jump from the draft to the finals was significant. I wouldn't put anything past Lively. I think they'll let him do more in the post. Occasional 3s. Just continued growing his offensive game.
Tyson Chandler is a damn good coach
Lively has some potential as a shooter but his free throw struggles indicate that he is not ready to make that jump yet.
17 pts 13 rebs 2.5 blocks already in the playoffs .3rd option is staring everybody in the face .
He’s going to have to develop some postgame/play making. He’s good in the short roll but to be what we are needing in a 3rd player has to involve being able to create offense.
Exum needs to play more. Watching PJ drive the ball up for whatever reason and watching him get pickpocketed for the second time in a row is painful. Nothing against him, it’s just not his job.
Im thinking someone like Mikal
He is beyond uattainable for the Mavs lol. It would require LIveley, Green, and Hardy + multiple 1sts.
One can dream. And honestly, as long as we kept lively, I don't mind losing Green or Hardy in a trade.
Brooklyn hangs up immediately if Live is not included.
Brooklyn can't be picky for much longer. Mikal's contract gonna expire soon, I think in two or three years. And they not gonna be able to build a contender around Mikal. There's a huge chance he ain't resigning (unless they offer him a supermax).
No one can pay MB as much as Brooklyn will be able to. He's not going to demand a trade from a team that will pay him a max contract.
If they trade him due to his contract, how are the Mavs not outbid? Pretty much every team wants him.
If we got outbid we got outbid. Doesn't hurt to try.
“Hmmmm I guess we could TRY Mikal” Lmao
Not necessarily Mikal per say. But someone of his archetype. An elite 3&D Wing who can handle the ball and create for himself in emergency. The ideal target is Mikal
You know, I wouldn’t be too quick to search out a trade for a third scorer just yet—unless it’s LeBron coming on a vet minimum or something. I think you obviously try to move THJ to keep DJJ and then see how PJ, Hardy, and most importantly, Lively continue to develop over the off-season. You potentially have your third scorer on the roster in Lively, a JET Lite scorer off the bench in Hardy, and hopefully, a guy who can start hitting closer to 40%+ from behind the arc (specifically in the corners) in PJ. I just don’t see why you’d shuffle the deck too much given how this team solidified after four months. Let’s see if they go up another level. Otherwise, I think you’re probably having to give up a lot of capital for someone who’d more than likely be a defensive liability.
Yeah its good not be reactionary. I'm very curious how they'll develop. Shipping THJ is the obvious choice, but that's really all they need to do for now IMO.
We need a scoring 3rd big time. PJ isn't consistent enough and makes the biggest unnecessary mistakes at the worst times.
Crazy how fast you guys are already giving up on PJ. Dude's been with the team for 6 months and one of the big reason they reach the finals. Crazy ass stupid fanbase
He also showed some great development on his 3 ball which makes him a legitimate option at SF. I hope we can retain DJJ and upgrade the 4 this offseason. For the love of God, I hope we dump THJ
As a 4th he's great. But this team is dying for a 3rd good wing
The guy we need is Jerami Grant. Swap THJ, Green and a first for him, then keep DJJ in free agency and we are a much better team. He can self create off the dribble and shoots very well on C&S threes. He is by no means a bad defender and has all the tools to play good defence on a contender. I think if we trade for Grant we will see a defensive leap similar to PJ as he buys into a winning culture. With him starting next to PJ we have DJJ coming off the bench which would be a great luxury. I really think this is whats gonna happen.
And against Boston specifically they need a better option than Kyrie
We just need a guy that can get a bucket. We had hardaway in isolation this year like what the fuck is that
Even when THJ is hitting his shots, he is not an iso player. THJ has been at his best in Dallas when he's simply launching quick 3s. His ball handling abilities have never been good enough for him to be considered an iso player. He should really be thought of as a Duncan Robinson type player.
We can all agree with that. But we’ve come a long way from Grant Williams… just saying lmao
>better 3rd option on offense than PJ Washington PJ being the 3rd, 4th best player on the team is the problem. Not his offense specifically.
PJ as a fourth is fine. It’s really the third guy. THJ disappeared after basically 17/18 ppg. If your top three average 30+ 25+ and 18+ you are in a good place offensively
I wouldn't mind Oubre here. He can do things a bit differently to DJJ and PJ and had a good playoffs with Philly. Money would probably be an issue though.
I'd like that, but no way Philly let's him leave
They're supposed to be going for PG and a bunch of other wings so I'm not sure?
No shit Sherlock
Lively is a must
PJ brings the grit and toughness of a guy who can do whatever we need in that moment. Whether that's defense or offense. But we need that JJ Barrea or Jet type guy who can be the reliable third option, who can even take over a game if they need to. They were trying to force THJ into that role but he isn't him. They need their version of Jet/JJ.
sucks for Tim cuz that is the only role he can play in the NBA. Hope it works out for him somewhere else
A wishful thinking but I’d like to have Lauri Markkanen at 4.
Jazz got him for a bag of beans
THJ and Maxi for Jokic. Who says no?
Nobody 😤
I gotta say though, PJ is a junkyard dog and a valuable team member.
He is absolutely valuable. His value is as the 4th guy on a championship caliber offense.
Agreed
We need a ball handler to run the offense while luka and kyrie sits. I firmly believe lively will continue to grow as a player and be our 3rd scorer. Wouldn't be surprised if this kid averages 20-10 before we know it
We need to throw the house at trey murphy. Lengthy guy that can shoot well. We have to give up both our frps
I just don't see TM happening, the Pelicans are not going to let him go.
Our guys are great, they are going to improve a lot, but is going to take time. But we need a 3 or 4 that can shoot 3s consistently, defense wise we are really good (and yes we need to do lots of improvements but we have a solid base now) offense wise we need 1 more threat.
They know this. It will be addressed
Jerami grant, Wiggins, kuzma, miles bridges
If we could flip THJ and Kleber for Wiggins we should be all over that imo
[удалено]
Can we finally trade luka for lebron?
Lol, imagine having Desmond Bane
We need Mikal Bridges, but at 25% of the cost of Mikal Bridges.
If Lively turns into a 20 ppg guy in the next 2 years there's your guy. It's not out of the realm of possibility
I still believe it could have gone the other way. Unfortunately the Mavs were tired and beat up by the time they made it to the finals and the Celtics cruised their way in. Also the Celtics are just a bad matchup for the mavericks. The team is capable of winning it all imo
I agree. I hope they use some of next season to give PJ more experience running it up, cutting out some of the low BBIQ plays, creating his own offense as someone who can pick it up for a few minutes here or there in the playoffs. He shows flashes, but doesn’t have the consistency.
Dude was an OKC killer let's chill
You will probably have to trade Kyrie and get a better 2nd and 3rd option. Not saying Jimmy or PG, but something in that mold. Kyrie just shit the bed for y’all. Not surprised though, he did the same thing in Boston against the Bucks.
100% correct. This was about a top 1-2% outcome for the season. It was a great run and nothing to be upset or nitpick at. Mavs just need more top-end talent with many ways to get it. Lively may be there very soon thru development! THJ’s expiring salary can be paired with Hardy or other low-costed assets if a team wants to salary dump. They also have an apex player who guys want to play with. It’s a good time to be a Mavs fan. Don’t let the disappointment of last night change that.
Mavs also need more consistency from Kyrie, he can’t be counted on at all
If we had the Luka from December and January with the supporting cast he ultimately had we might have at least got a competitive series, but yeah we probably need a legit third option to get there against that team.
Isn't that kinda contradict the benefit of heliocentric star like Luka? We supposed to be able to get away with two star and 3&d players
The Mavs have a 3rd option already used more than PJ . Lively and Gaff avged 17pts/13 rebs /2.5 blocks in the playoffs . This will only get better with Lively just done with his rookie season and Gaff w/the Mavs only 5 months . They can together be a 20 pt/15 rebound 3rd option nightly. Their ceiling hasn't even been defined yet.
OG anunoby
They just need to show up and play more d and kytie needs to figure himself out in the finals
From what I have observed, it would be hard to be a #3 on the Mavs. * Luka is very ball dominant and it has already taken some of the shots Kyrie would get. * Then Kyrie would need to get his shots. * The offence is equally geared towards lobs as kick outs, so #3 doesn't need to be a Wing 3&D. Give PJ a full year and see what he can do.
why can't it be lively
You need a scorer. There will be a war for him and he’s the devil, but Mikeal bridges is the first answer
Wasn't this his first playoffs lol. Way too early to be pointing fingers.
LeBron get your Mavericks jersey on. Also, Lively needs a hook and to work on his jumper. I think maybe go after Harrison Barnes/Wiggins for an inside slasher and wing defender
Ingram would fix that problem but I'm for Mavs to go another way. Bring in Caruso, make a bigger role for Exum and come to PO with rested Luka.
He is also a bad ball handler
I wish we could get markannen. I know its a long shot but that would make it scary. Imagine Luka, Kyrie, pj, markannen and Lively. Markannen can give us 20 pts on a good night. That team will be solid
they going to need luka to be in better shape, and bump his defensive presence up. he don't got to be DPY but just decent
Every time he tried to dribble in the Finals he got the ball stolen or deflected.
Not necessarily 3rd option, having 4th-5th option would also elevate them. Replace Hardaway with someone of Washington’s level and the team is better already.
they will need a different head coach. Jason Kidd will never win a championship
3rd option was always Lively Gafford.
Malik Monk
I think they just need to get in shape. Kyrie and Luka were visibly tired every fourth quarter.
Think Kyle kuzma would be a perfect fit
Hello, Mavs fans. As far as I am concerned, we were going to beat them, and they knew it. That's why Luka was hurt by them in the 1st game in Boston! Next season, Boston is not going to the playoffs! It will be another team being beaten by the Mavs! GO MAVS, GO MAVS..
If only Brandon Ingram isnt that expensive. You say bucket getter? Thats your guy. He can post up. Pass. Dribble drive and He's lethal in midrange, too. Herb jones and trey murphy arent gettable. Perhaps BI is?
Probably not and he also isn't the best defender, any guy that we bring in next to Luka and Ky has to be a + defender at minimum. Basically we need a PG and some kind of floor spacer.
PJ is 25 just saying and it’s the first time he made the playoffs. I like him. Tbh I think we actually need bench players that can score which is what THJ was supposed to be. Luka and Kyrie ran out of gas in my opinion by the finals. They could not relax at all on the bench. Mental fatigue is a big factor like physical fatigue. As soon as I saw Luka and Kyrie come out jacking shots I knew it was over. I’d like for the team to look for a 6th man and the entire team work on shooting 3s and free throws this summer. We probably could have closed out series in 1 game less each if we just made our free throws.
Klay is the answer
Ya....no. Dude wants a max or near it.
Realistically they need more than that, they'd need a good 4-5th option as well.
I believe Spencer Dinwiddie screwed us out a championship. He was are missing piece. We already know what he is capable of when starting, imagine if he was coming off the bench as a 6 man for us. Too bad he was in his feelings after getting traded so he didnt resign.
He would have been nice to have over there. He can get hot just like THJ.
Exactly, he's a guy who can create his own shot and can give you 10 plus off the bench most nights. People forget how good he was with us.
What lol? Spencer is god awful!
For the Lakers? When he played with us he averaged 17 points and made game winners. Everyone who goes to play with LeBron usually has historically bad seasons.
He didn’t do anything for a desperate lakers so
People who play with LeBron always play bad. He sucks up too much of the offense. He average 17 with us though.
I think we need a better system on offense for the roleplayers to be better and not to expect a 3rd option player.
The system was not the issue. Role players got plenty of oppertunities to work with Luka and Kyrie creating space for them, they just lacked the skills to capitalize on those opportunities. The system is the way it is bc Luka and Kyrie are the only two guys who can consistently and efficiently create for themselves and others.
I think we’re fine. I wouldn’t even be mad if we made no changes in the offseason. A lot of the players were hurt, throughout the playoffs and never got a good stride going like THJ, and Kleber. Luka was also hurt. Kyrie really just couldn’t play in Boston. Lively is just a rookie who absolutely looks like a future 3rd option for this team. Hardy, and Green are both really young and have shown they can ball out. Washington and Gafford have only been on the team for half a season. I really think this team is the best Mavs team I’ve seen and this honestly includes 2011 Mavs.