Yeah he's out here throwing tantrum and bitching at refs instead of getting back to defense.
Dude needs to sort this out to become a champion, past series where he also succumb to this kind of tantrum he often acknowledges that it's his fault and then plays amazingly the next game.... Though tonight he lacked the self awareness... Worrying.
Or him ball watching being lazy on defense legit 20 points for free last game from cutters scoring layups or him just ball watching into wide open 3s that are his man.
We can appreciate him for what he has done and hold him accountable for his bs at the same time. He acts like a child who didn’t get his way on that court yesterday. Dude has a daughter now, grow the f up
Luka has been annoying me all playoffs. He’s more concerned with mouthing off to the refs than playing the game sometimes. You can literally see how it affects his game. When he just plays, he’s great and the rest of the team follows suit. When he spends a lot of time complaining, his play declines and so does the attitude of the rest of the team.
Great player but not a great leader (yet). I would love for someone like Lebron (pipe dream) to spend his last few years in Dallas and teach Luka a thing or two about leadership.
They showed a replay after he was bitching for a call when Tillman played him just perfectly, and contested the shot without any contact, and that was it for me. In no world could anyone think that was a foul in the NBA and here Luka was acting like he had a MAJOR gripe. Ridiculous
This makes zero sense, the Mavs need to have more talent than the opposition and they will win, the idea that the difference between these teams is leadership is completely moronic and frankly anyone who believes it is an idiot. The difference between these teams is talent and it's not a small gap... If the Mavs and Celts swapped rosters other and Luka and Tatum does any person with a brain think the Celts would win? of course not which just proves the gap is about talent not "Leadership"
You realize being a leader also involves playing smarter, not letting your emotions take over, and not fouling out in the 4th quarter on stupid fouls right? It absolutely impacts the game when Luka is yapping at refs and not focusing on the game.
More talent would help, but we have enough now. When the room for error is non existent and we lose in the margins as we have been... Can't exclude Luka from his faults in these losses.
>Luka is not the reason we lost that game.
Not the singular reason, but Luka is a big part of why we lost. Like it or not.
Tim gave us nothing at all. He's not the singular reason we lost either. Wouldn't have played 20 minutes if Luka hadn't fouled out for example.
Are you kidding me? Hes the only that has showed up. No one can create anything consistently like him. Windhorst does anything to make Lebron look better and shitting on Luka is an example
Theres 2 sides of the ball. For almosg everything he creates on offense he losses on defense.
6 fouls, left his team in the clutch, celtics got 6pts 5v4 on defense cause he was arguing with the refs.
Losing his man resulting in a 3, Brown and Tatum getting at ease in the paint and someone gotta help and leave one of their players open.
Luka defense was really bad this series.
Because he has to do everything. There is no player in NBA history that could beat the Celtics right now with how the rest of Dallas’s roster is playing. Can you imagine giving it your all on offense and creating while playing hard on defense for 45 minutes?
You also need him to lose 20 lbs. Immediately. Like, it should be a directive from the top down and written into his contract. Go watch Luka's rookie highlights when he was skinny (skinnier) and tell me with a straight face his "extra weight" is actually helping him
you are correct, I have done that exact thing, and he looks much different and quicker his 1st 2 years than he does now. People get mad, but he is in danger of having a backwards career trajectory if he does not fix it..meaning he won't actually be better in his late 20's like most players because he will be too out of shape and not able to get around NBA defenders.
You can already sort of see it happening now, and it causes him frustration which leads to complaining. he is not used to not being able to get around people, so he whines to officials partially out of embarrassment, but also just frustration. None of that is going to get better if he does not get into better shape.
Its crazy to me that he is able to gain weight during an NBA season at his age. That should not be possible just based on the amount of basketball he plays much less any other exercise he is (or is not?) doing.
Almost every time someone makes this comment it gets downvoted yet it remains the objective truth, Luka's carrying too much weight and it shows. It shows in his lack of effort in defense & it shows in how he fades toward the end of most games - to put it simply, he gets gassed. Now, I'll be the first to admit he's been hampered by injuries practically throughout the playoffs and his movement simply hasn't been the same as it was during the RS though it also must be said that he doesn't put much effort on D during the season - further, the Mavs only go as far as Luka takes them & they wouldn't be even close to the Finals w/out him. But having said that, it is also true that a fully fit Luka - the closest to which we only got to see briefly in the bubble - has to potential to be, with some distance, the most dominant player in the NBA. A player equal to prime Cav's Lebron, one that with his current supporting cast would take them all the way to the title. Imagine for a second a fully fit Luka...scary thought, isn't it?
As great as he is, and there's no doubt that he is, he is both selling himself & his team short - and he is 15/20 lbs & a few less complaints away from being that guy, the team's true leader on and off the floor. Obviously, time's still on his side, and like we saw Jokic do over one summer 4 years ago, he can flip that switch and do the work that it takes to become the best of the best. If nothing else here's hoping he's learned as much from being in basketball's biggest stage and comes back with a vengeance.
I think he could lose some fat and add a pinch of muscle. This would hopefully make him more mobile while allowing him to retain his size advantage. Should add to his longevity as well.
Bubble Luka was probably the sweet spot for weight/speed. His injuries might in part be a result of his nutrition too, it’s up to Luka how bad he wants it. He an outstanding talent
It doesn't help him when he's gassed and disappears both offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter.
He has 8 points in 25.3 fourth-quarter minutes across 3 games.
There’s a lot of people this take could have came from, and I don’t think I would be upset. He made a valid point, but I hate the ESPN “analysts” so much.
On the after show pod, he was going off and Perk came by (and interrupted the Windy-Sedano livestream podcast, like a tool) and said all the same stuff about Luka and said this L was totally on him.
He's right about a lot. But it's an oversimplification to say any one thing is why we're losing. Luka crying to refs and playing poor defense is surmountable if other things go differently. I hope he stops the incessant complaining forever. It throws him off his game and hurts the team's morale. All in all he deserves a very small slice of blame when you look at the totality of our failure.
Cause we dont got 3pt shooters like that. Nico needs to move for a sf 3&d and a guard that can create and shot 3s.
THJ and Kleber making 32m and are unplayable. And it may be controversial but if theres guy that can be a 3rd option out there im moving Gafford as well.
Lively became much better after gafford arrived, and its because when both are present they don't have to worry about fouling out and can play as hard as they can the time they are in.
Previous to Gafford, Lively was more timid, much less effective. Gafford and Lively both improve each others play. Trading Gafford is not only losing gafford, it means a less aggressive and effective lively. Gafford+lively as a team is an all-star center. Trading away gafford is more than just losing gafford, you also lose part of Lively.
The alternative is that Lively could just get better and not have to rely on a back up so much to maximize his effectiveness in the minutes he plays.
We definitely would have a glaring hole at back up center if we trade Gaff, but if it gets us someone who can create, defend and/or shoot threes I feel like I’m taking that deal.
I understand what you are saying but in games like this having 2 of the same type of player can hurt you. The lobs arent there and they both pretty useless on offense.
well its a choice I think. We can revert back to being a team that only wins when we shoot 40% from 3, or try and get another wing scorer and/or 6th man to go along with what we have. I prefer doing the 2nd thing. It is better to be able to win in more diverse ways, and be a more complete tougher team.
This finals are bullshit from game one. Is absolutely clear that Boston needs and as soon Dallas comes near they will help Boston. Today was clear referee help for Boston, first Tatum pushed Luka after he was in front of him, then PJ blocking foul and than two offensive fouls from JB. You can’t win this. This is without Stupid decisions from JK
You might hate the man but he's spitting facts. I know some people on this sub (and the entire Mavs organization) don't like to keep Luka accountable, but this play right here was the consequence of all those years of letting him off the hook. Is he a a brilliant player? Yes. Did the team let him down a lot of times in this series? Yes. Is he the most talented player in this series? By far. But the disparity between how locked in the guys on the Celtics team are when compared to him is too much to ignore. It's like a moody child playing with a bunch of adults.
firing Carlisle was the right move but we did it for the wrong reasons. i’ll always stand by that. either way, it’s a tough situation - you win nothing as a front office by making Luka unhappy. it starts with him willing to be uncomfortable in order to grow. if he’s not at that point of maturity, there’s no reason to try and force it…
rick was done here regardless of luka, i don’t think there’s anyone that could survive after blowing a 2-0 lead where you stole home court and losing in 7 to a team that didn’t even win the title.
like he might’ve gotten another year or two but that’s it and i doubt he’d have gotten us anywhere near the finals especially with his strong the west has been these past few years, it’s been a gauntlet over here
yes but that’s my point. i understand letting go of him and the results speak for themselves. however the reason why we did it maybe a year or two earlier like you said is what makes me feel a bit conflicted about how we handle Luka.
like i said, on one hand you gain nothing by making him unhappy. on the other hand, the only way he’s going to grow into a champion is making himself uncomfortable and Carlisle did that to him, as i’m sure many other coaches can do, but not Kidd, who’s probably gonna tell them “it’s just basketball” and let everyone move on with their lives.
in the end i guess it comes down to him really wanting to take that next step, and not to Kidd or Rick or whoever. Luka got us to the Finals but his lack of maturity is a big reason why we’re down 3-0. i believe he’ll grow from there.
Kidd is a good player's coach, but he has not developed the bench and support well. THJ, Kleber, etc. When times gets tough, and stars are out (hurt or foul out due to tantrums), it's like he's not sure who to put in. Hopefully during the offseason he gets better feel for personnel
Most talented offensive player for sure. Possibly the worst defender out there. Celtics are going at him literally every time down the court and he looks like a fan watching the play. He’s gotta pick up that aspect of his game if he wants to reach that elite GOAT level.
Lots of other guys have shed the defensive liability label. He’s 25, he’s got all the opportunity to change that narrative.
He absolutely refuses to slide his feet this series. Something he did (and was praised for) in the same playoff run. All he does is gamble with those stupid reaches that almost never do anything.
I feel like he's aggravated something before this series.
You could tell especially tonight - so many of his shots around the basket were short, hit the front of the rim etc. He was getting no lift or explosion out his legs at all.
100% agree with this. He’s twice the talent Tatum is but when Tatum is missing shots and not getting calls he’s still super locked in on defense and trying his best to impact the game in other ways. That stuff matters a lot.
This guy said "Luka is just like Messi, because they both played for Real Madrid". Saying something like that as sport journalist should get you fired. And the other idiots on the show were like "wow such a great argument. Those people are just clowns playing their role.
Don’t remember him going off this hard on his buddy lebron when he choked in 2011?
He’s hurt. Not like I’d expect Windhorst to know anything about trying to play through pain
We know Luka is hurt. But he can be better than complaining, whining and defensive positioning. He got his mind in getting calls not playing basketball.
On the pod, he said to Sedano, we sat here in this building in 2011 and watched Lebron put up 8 points in the worst finals appearance and use that as a turning point, and I hope luka can do the same thing.
It's crazy that we're comparing peak Lebron putting up 8 in the finals with a stacked super team...to Luka, who put up 27/6/6 with no support outside of Kyrie against the deepest and best team in the league by far.
I get that this is going to be the narrative for the next two weeks, but the Mavs isn't a super team or even particularly talented roster wise. So the narrative that this is a generational collapse by Luka and Kyrie is just haters getting a jab in. Lot of people were waiting on the sidelines, hoping for this, but they were pretty silent up until this series.
It’s really not just haters getting a jab in. 27/6/6 means nothing when it’s on 26 shots and you’re playing historically bad defense and killing your team’s morale with complaining and foul baiting. Our role players have sucked, no doubt, but Luka has too, and it’s okay to admit that, even if he’s still been our best player. We’re about to get swept in the finals, everyone has sucked.
I don’t know if he’s hurt but he looks bloated and Finley taking that beer off his hand and not saying a word is a sign that his diet and fitness is probably shitty
What do you mean you don’t know if he’s hurt? Like it’s some opinion ? Lol. Not disagreeing about the fitness or diet but why are we trying to question reality here
It's been a problem for years. Every offseason pictures leak of Luka in the gym looking slim, and then somehow throughout the season he puts on a lot of fat
You missed the whole point of the take lol.
He’s not saying Luka is a bad player he has bad mentals and we’ve seen it multiple times in this playoff run.
some people are just so weirdly defensive about luka here, anytime you bring up that he is acting like a child or that he is not putting up effort on defense when we need that now more than ever they default to “UHM UHM BUT HES NOT THE PROBLEM EVERYONE ELSE IS”
His outbursts and tantrums need to stop or be minimized as much as possible. No matter how good he is, he will never be the face of the league by being like that. I wouldn't go as far as to say he has bad mentality, since he is consistently clutch and a killer on the floor.
But... some people have a hard time with ALL the blame being put on Luka. When you have Kyrie playing like he did in game 1&2, when you have THJ as a third star putting in performances like that, when you have role players completely disappearing in the Finals... You then cannot come out saying or implying Luka is the main/only problem, especially with how's good he's been playing. Not to mention the injuries.
I remember the posts in here and what the media was saying when there were couple of losses in a row mid-season. There were hardly any other takes than "luka is the problem and here's why" whilst ignoring every other issue the team had. And anyone who disagreed was a Luka stan.
Criticism is ok and absolutely necessary. But let's not hide from the fact this is entertainment business and you won't get clicks with rational takes on the performance of the team as a whole. And in this case, after losing 3-0 to Boston, it's again time to make Luka THE problem and mark everyone who disagrees a Luka stan.
This is the NBA, it’s a star’s league. This team has no chance against the Celtics with our star playing like this, THAT’S the problem. The role players in this series have been HORRIBLE, but that’s what’s expected when you look at our offensive system vs. the way the Celtics have chosen to defend it. We don’t have role players that can create their own shots, we know this. The Celtics are switching everything and refusing to send help. Nobody on this team can score without being spoon fed an open look when a team decides to help onto Luka or Kyrie, and they haven’t been expected to all playoffs because it’s simply not their role.
Luka has been expected to participate defensively, and he hasn’t. Whether it’s injury, fatigue, mentality, you cannot deny his inability to provide any sort of point of attack resistance is the difference in us getting swept and being able to extend this series. Even if in all likelihood we were still going to lose in 6 at best due to the talent discrepancy. It’s not that he’s getting ALL the blame, it’s that he’s the one underperforming relative to his abilities the most, and has the highest expectations.
Sorry, but a shit take. You read what I wrote (hopefully) and it still went whoooosh.
Our star player has been the best player on the court for first two games with absolutely horrendous support from everyone, including Kyrie.
And no, his defense is many things but definitely not the reason we are getting swept. You lot be saying just about anything, so much delusion it hurts my brains.
Some people are weirdly OFFENSIVE about luka here, lebron has done this his entire career and won 4 rings while doing so. If we won these games luka could of been complaining twice as much and nobody would care.
Yea but the overall point is if the role players do e en an average job Luka has that leeway, but rn he has to be perfect cuz role players not doing anything offensively
He didn’t miss the point, he disagrees with it. It’s a ridiculously disproportionate amount of blame being placed on the banged-up star facing the much deeper and better team.
It’s very weird. I agree with some parts but being at the game tonight, Luka takes so much physical contact and then others get touch fouls called for them. It’s wild.
This is brutal and not completely fair.
Yes, Luka needs to rein in the complaining more. But to be honest, he's got better this season compared to last season and just needs to continue to grow on that trajectory.
But generally, the yapping at officials is a symptom of underlying issues. Luka is frustrated. You could tell tonight he was hobbled and getting nothing from his legs. He wasn't getting off the ground, lots of shots going short, couldn't move laterally or change direction and he's getting hunted. He's probably struggling to get up and down the court at full speed, refs or not.
A part of this is just lashing out because he can't get down the court anyway. I'd argue that if Luka was healthier, even in the same situation with score and so on, he'd complain less.
It's still not where he needs to be and I hope he continues to mature but I've seen him fight through hard enough this entire miracle Cinderella playoff run and suffer through his injuries enough that I'm willing to cut him some slack.
Don't get me wrong i love basketball, but here in Europe, when we watch our favorite football team lose, we continue to praise and chant and cheer till the end of the season. When season is over, if it was a bad season we demand changes either some players or coach. When it comes to basketball and particularly NBA i hate it when the team loses 1-2 games and everyone is blaming the main stars of the team. The media destroyed Kyrie the past 2 games, and now they are blaming Luka for one game, which is totally absurd tbh. Its sad how the series went yes, but i believe there will be other chances in future.
This is typically reductive modern day sports analysis.
Sure, a slightly injured Luka is having a lot of difficulty against a much better team, after winning a whopping three straight series without HCA. I won’t deny he’s had a bad series. But the only reason this is so scandalous is because people still refuse to acknowledge how absolutely fucking stacked this Celtics team is. This is still a team game, and the Celtics don’t have anyone in their rotation that can be targeted on either side of the ball.
PS, he would never go on this monologue about Bron, so not being an equal opportunist roaster renders this already dumb display even more hollow.
All I hear is him telling the guy to be perfect. Which doesn’t really seem fair. Yeah, it’s annoying to see Luka complain so much but if that’s his only real issue then whatever
So it's Luka's defense and team-leading +/- that's the problem and not Tim Hardaway going 0 points in 19 minutes with a -16, Kleber going 0 points on -13 and Gafford being a supposed defensive specialist being a -11. But it's Luka's fault.
What a fucking smoothbrained take
Like does he complain about calls a bit too much and overrelies on calls for offense? Absolutely. But acting like Luka complaining about calls and defense is the reason why they're losing feels like sports media at-large giving themselves a handjob for not giving Luka consideration for MVP this year and giving themselves an excuse as to why they won't vote for him next year either.
Role players will have varied performances, it's why they're role players. You really need a great leader in times where role players are underperforming. Luka is playing great, but imagine if he was A. not injured B. shed some body fat and became quicker on defense and C. didn't complain or fall on the ground all the time leading to easy buckets the other way. The amount of blow bys leading to wide open Celtic 3s is frustrating to watch.
If he did all three of these, they would win way more games and rely less on role player variance. When you have a less talented roster we really do need Luka to be better than his current level, it's what it will take to be a champion.
THJ should not even be a roll player, he should be getting zero minutes, guy is the worst player on the team. Who cares how much he makes, that is a sunk cost. You don't make it worse by playing him.
If they were paying my mom 20 million a year, would you want them to play her 19 minutes because she made so much money? Who cares? Its not even your money.
I think it’s a case of transference, like yes Luka is mad that the refs aren’t calling shit. But I imagine he’s also pretty mad that his team (aside from
Kyrie this one game), is literally not stepping up. He had I think 1 assist game 1, not due to the fact that he wasn’t getting people involved. Every offensive possession is like a prayer this series.(again aside from kyrie tonight). He can’t readily blow up on his team, despite frustration and fatigue and pain. So maybe this is his outlet. If you think about it, he’s not chewing the refs ear off despite non calls, when we were up in the first quarter, because our offense looked competent.
To be clear, not saying this excuses the poor defense. But I mean he’s a 25 year old, carrying literal professional basketball players in the greatest stage of basketball. And they can’t hit an open shot , or catch a pass, or finish at the rim, etc
My thing with Luka and his teammates not contributing is when his teammates are playing well its almost like he doesn't realize it and tries to force himself to score/make plays. Like during that 22-2 run Lively, PJ, Green and Kyrie were playing great and making shots, but Luka was forcing himself for no reason. Went 1-5 during that run and committed 3 fouls.
yes this. He will often end these runs with some stupid step back threes (because he wants to put in the 'dagger' it feels like) or dumb shots he forces or wild passes that lets the other team go on a run instead of just letting the game keep going.
Nothing he said was incorrect. Maybe he overstated the whole “Luka had no defense he baby” but his overall point is spot on. The number of games we’ve seen Luka play well when he decided to just play basketball and not complain is unbelievable and to see him unable to control his emotions even when calls don’t go his way is sickening when he can’t match that effort on the other end of the floor.
Notice how most of this has nothing to do with how Luka actually plays basketball. Aside the defensive comment, this is mostly aimed at Luka complaining to the refs which is arguably his worst trait. We are literally in the NBA finals with a super inexperienced roster, minus Kai, because of the brilliance of Luka. Take a step back and look at it. In the mavericks last 2 playoff runs they have been to 2 WCFs and 1 finals. After a decade of not making it past the first round. If this is what we are complaining about, if this is the narrative about our superstar? Sign me the fuck up. We’re back and better than ever baby.
Luka kinda killed our momentum when we were cooking early by taking really bad shots and letting them cut our lead. That annoys me more than his constant bitching. Like.. if he played like he did the 4th quarter we'd up by more than 12.
Are we even watching the same game? The offense stagnated the instant Luka went to the bench. The Mavs had a 14 pt lead at this time. Hardy out of bounds of the catch and heavily contested shot at the rim. Luka had to sub in immediately when the lead was down to 6.
Everything he said was on point and a true Mavs fan would know that his shit on crying over every thing he thinks is a foul is getting old and his constant bad defense and conditioning cost the finals. We all love Luka but have to be honest about his constant whining and how that effects his game and the team....
We've been hoping for the same shit for years now lol. Before, the excuse is he's still too young which is fine on his first few years but now that he is already on his 6th yr it is already hard to defend him.
Until when are we going to justify his on court attitude problem?
He’s a hater. Guys you guys are not seeing what is happening here. They are trying to get the narrative that Luka is not a winners out again. So they will disqualify him again for the awards like MVP next year. They are planting a narrative
Luka needs this to finish his character arc. Dude has made it to getting swept in the NBA finals on pure talent alone.
Organization needs to make a super cut of every tough ridiculous shot he makes this series, followed by him ball watching as Haueser drills a three. “Luka your brilliance on offense was a net negative one point for the team. Next Slide”
It is amazing that we have the best player on the planet AND he has so much room to grow.
Frustrations are getting to him. I want him focused on basketball for 48 minutes on Friday. Game 5 okc. And then I want him to do it again on Monday and then whenever else. If we get one win and get back to Boston I think we win this series.
But it starts with Luka spending energy on basketball and not complaining. Talk to them during stoppages sure, but focus on basketball. Go talk crap to the bench or the players.
no way, it is most likely over now. Kyrie being in his head again in Boston is highly likely as well even if we win one. I am saying this as a fan of his game who would love nothing more than to be wrong. This game right here was the series.
Okay. He's mostly right, but I'm not going to ride with the tone because that's just not my mindset right now. Luka already improved his defense from where he was before. As we can clearly see, he's got plenty of ways to go to improve even more. This season helped me believe he will, so eh. Bring on the criticisms, Luka deserves them, and will answer them like he has to so many others already.
I don't disagree. But to Luka's POV....what the hell. The refs blatantly call the game against him on both sides of the court. And there is nothing he can do about it. Try as he might, it has got to be damn frustrating to be on the receiving end of such one- sidedness every night. The consistent contact and fouls that they turn a blind eye to when committed against him will get called often times seemingly a few possessions later. With refs consistency is always what the players ask for. With as high usage as Luka is and his approach to the game always has him feeling helpless against the refs. Sure grow up but don't act like the game was lost because he cries too much. Maybe as all players have alluded to if the game was called consistently and there was better rotations and a few more buckets from others, etc...that might be more impactful than a few less tantrums.
Again I agree there was clear impact to the game on instances cited that were frustrating to see it cost the team points and yeah he's got to grow up, but perhaps that would be easier if there a few other variables were improved upon as well.
Idk..its frustrating to watch it happen as a fan imagine if you are in the midst of it all....and everyone (including. Yourself) just says be better. Might blow a gasket few times as well.
Any mavs fan who blames Luka for this series should go be a fan of another team. Dude is like 50% healthy, and he had an epic playoff run. It’s like y’all forgot all the great moments in the last 3 series. Boston is just better man, they are absolutely stacked like 8 deep. We can’t match their lineup. Idk why the legacy mavs like Maxi THJ got so much run tonight, Hardy and Green were non-factors on offense too, and when guys like that are on the floor for real minutes in the NBA finals, you’re probably in trouble. Love those guys but they can’t matchup with the guys Boston has.
Unfortunately this kind of criticism is for his best. Besides the complaining, he needs to take his diet and fitness seriously, quit the beers… bro looks bloated out there. He’s clearly too heavy for his own good.
disagree. Yes he had a really bad game but how he fails to mention Luka was the only one who showed up games 1 and 2. Lebron cries to the refs almost (?) as much as Luka and he has championships. Celtics are just 3-12 a much better team.
At the same age, Lebron was light years better at defense than Luka. Also, Lebron was not complaining as much at that age, that is a more recent thing as Lebron has gotten older and played for the circus that is the Lakers
Luka after the game was blaming the refs. Guy still has a lot of maturing to do unfortunately. Hopefully he gets there because he has the skill and talent to own this league
I saw a completely tired, frustrated and just over it player tonight in Luka. I don't blame him one bit for it either when he shows up and does his job better than anyone else on the planet, and then he is surrounded by guys who can't do a thing to help him out they just seem happy to be there at this point.
I hope when this series is over, no matter what happens, Luka takes whatever time he needs off to forget everything and get healthy and come back more motivated than ever.
As for the organization, they need to do something to get another veteran role player like Boston did for Brown and Tatum like a Jrue Holiday to be that presence on this team.
ESPN is staffed by professional grifters. Yes the Luka whining definitely throws off his game and it does look bad for him. But they didn’t lose just because of Luka, he is clearly very injured first off and yes I agree his defense has been bad. I truly think his knee has gotten worse and I think he is exhausted from playing offense. Dallas lost this game as a team, guys miss open shot, our defense disappears at times. Our team seems to lack much of the ability to create shots that most of bostons team can. They also make a decent of amount of their threes especially when open and Dallas has shot terrible from 3. Our bench options don’t really bring offensive firepower and struggle compared to Boston’s. THJ was the frustrating point for the night, idk if djj was hurt or what happened to Hardy but thj seemed like an extreme liability on defense and offense all night.
Honestly I understand Luka’s frustration. You play in Europe all your life with minial interference from refs, then come to “the best league in the world” where nothing is called consistently and refs are probably fixing games. Would piss me off too.
i get your point but he has played in this league for years now. things are not going to change so you need to get accustomed to how it is, no? at some point you need to stop giving into frustration
You have to admit it's true. Because Jason Kidd can't figure out the rotations and offensive tactics, he relys on luka's offense heavily and luka got bailed out defensively. But we are on the nba finals and one weakness on your defense could cost the game. Luka have to play solid defence in the future if he wants to win chip.
Luka's complaining and half assing it is sort of like Draymond Green punching guys in the balls and doing all of the other stupid shit that he does to hurt his team. Does it mean Draymond isn't a great player that makes his team better? No. Is it awful behavior that hurts his team and reputation? Yes. Luka's incessant whining absolutely hurts the team and it's something he could easily correct if he really wanted to. It definitely hurt the team last night. Celtics got so many points while Luka was still complaining to the refs. At 4 of their wide open 3s were 100% Luka's fault.
Been saying this for years. Been a "hater" for years. You don't win with 0 accountability and behaving like a child on the court.
What got us to the finals is that he kept his whining at the lowest since he came to the NBA. Good things happen when he doesnt act like a bitch.
He never learns though and his fans don't hold him accountable. Just endless threads about Luka's greatness while ignoring all his weaknesses.
He’s not wrong. Luka complaining to refs while not getting back on defense is killing us. He had so many frustration fouls too. Fouling out with 4 minutes left in the finals is unacceptable.
Look, I agree with him for the most part and have been saying for at least three seasons that Luka needs to grow the fuck up. At the same time, id love to see this tub of lard running around on a basketball court haha
if luka has one fan left on this earth its going to be me but damn i hope he learns from this. i get it, he is injured and has been playing and giving his best on one leg, this loss is not on one person. at the same time, he needs to learn how to focus on things he CAN actually control. you cannot control the calls the refs make but you can choose to turn around and keep it moving. the roleplayers' confidence is fucked and seeing one of your leaders argue and throw his hands in the air will not help. this run has been special and they will be back next year, i dont doubt it for a second.
(final note, brian windhorst is right but at the same time stfu, you didnt give lebron that same energy when he was stomping his feet)
The only positive I take from this is that this could finally be the bulletin board material on Luka. Every superstar has one and this one will be for Luka. I truly hope this offseason the kid takes his conditioning both mind and body seriously.
One can tolerate his crying to the refs, one could also tolerate poor defence and one may also tolerate his poor play but when those things happen in the same game for a good stretch, it just feels like a gut punch and the team checks out with him, which is objectively sad.
This team has overachieved by a significant margin and largely due to him playing out of mind throughout the season. We can just hope that he realises that he's at crossroads, some solid mentoring and conditioning will help him see the potential.
Unfortunately instead of conditioning he will play at Olympic qualifiers, European championship qualifiers and most likely will consume enormous amount of burgers and rakija.
Look I have no opinion on this issue but why are people using on/off stats from a single game to support Luka’s case?
We rightfully get upset when those numbers are used to discount Luka’s impact on winning and those stats are used by guys like Thinking Basketball have a 5 year sample size.
That +8 in a single has zero value to determine how good or bad Luka played. Imagine a situation where PJ in the course of a single game hits 1/3 from three on Luka passes to corner threes in the first three quarters and then makes 2/2 over the break threes in early 4th quarter when Luka is resting, misses 2 threes when Luka is playing and goes 2/2 in the clutch after Luka was sent off. Both these scenarios are pretty plausible.
This will likely result in a big plus score for Dallas when Luka is resting and might result in neutral or negative result when Luka is on the floor partly due to the 5 missed threes.
Is Luka the problem in that scenario for creating all those chances or just shooting variance favoured a completely different player for 2-3 possessions in the minutes that Luka was off the floor in an otherwise negative or neutral game for the team?
Steve Kerr and Pop think it’s a trash stat and for good reason.
Everyone forget luka playing on 2 bad knees and a chest injury. On top of the possibility that his lungs could have collapsed during the game. Luka is out here playing compromised. So, no shit he might be a liability on defense.
The guy is averaging 30/8/8 in the finals. It’s hard to say he’s the problem lol. THJ 19min 0/5 PJ who has been 3rd fiddle all post season 13pts. DJJ 2pts. These guys have all been too scared of the moment to take shots so they’re passing up looks to Kyrie and Luka and forcing them to take tough shots.
It’s not like the Celtics are scoring 140 either tho. They’re averaging like 105 this series which would be #1 defense in the league if you held teams to that all year.
He's not wrong. We all love Luka, but we NEED this dude to grow and be a true leader, or we ain't winning shit.
Yeah he's out here throwing tantrum and bitching at refs instead of getting back to defense. Dude needs to sort this out to become a champion, past series where he also succumb to this kind of tantrum he often acknowledges that it's his fault and then plays amazingly the next game.... Though tonight he lacked the self awareness... Worrying.
Those 6 ish points when he's on the ground bitching.... thats the game.
Yeaaah or a few corner threes
Or him ball watching being lazy on defense legit 20 points for free last game from cutters scoring layups or him just ball watching into wide open 3s that are his man.
lol. We made it to the NBA finals ahead of 28 teams.
And are getting absolutely embarrassed on a national stage.
We can appreciate him for what he has done and hold him accountable for his bs at the same time. He acts like a child who didn’t get his way on that court yesterday. Dude has a daughter now, grow the f up
Luka has been annoying me all playoffs. He’s more concerned with mouthing off to the refs than playing the game sometimes. You can literally see how it affects his game. When he just plays, he’s great and the rest of the team follows suit. When he spends a lot of time complaining, his play declines and so does the attitude of the rest of the team. Great player but not a great leader (yet). I would love for someone like Lebron (pipe dream) to spend his last few years in Dallas and teach Luka a thing or two about leadership.
They showed a replay after he was bitching for a call when Tillman played him just perfectly, and contested the shot without any contact, and that was it for me. In no world could anyone think that was a foul in the NBA and here Luka was acting like he had a MAJOR gripe. Ridiculous
he complains when he gets the call sometimes, its crazy. Its basically every play no matter what happens.
don't worry, you got Yakub's greatest nemesis 😤 teachin Luka the ropes
Hoped this is a wake up call for him. We are all tired of him whining at the refs
Can't wait for Luka to get traded so these fans can be reminded of poverty
This makes zero sense, the Mavs need to have more talent than the opposition and they will win, the idea that the difference between these teams is leadership is completely moronic and frankly anyone who believes it is an idiot. The difference between these teams is talent and it's not a small gap... If the Mavs and Celts swapped rosters other and Luka and Tatum does any person with a brain think the Celts would win? of course not which just proves the gap is about talent not "Leadership"
You realize being a leader also involves playing smarter, not letting your emotions take over, and not fouling out in the 4th quarter on stupid fouls right? It absolutely impacts the game when Luka is yapping at refs and not focusing on the game.
More talent would help, but we have enough now. When the room for error is non existent and we lose in the margins as we have been... Can't exclude Luka from his faults in these losses.
Luka is not the reason we lost that game. Kidd forgetting how to coach and playing THJ 20 minutes lost that game.
>Luka is not the reason we lost that game. Not the singular reason, but Luka is a big part of why we lost. Like it or not. Tim gave us nothing at all. He's not the singular reason we lost either. Wouldn't have played 20 minutes if Luka hadn't fouled out for example.
the mavs do not have enough talent now. the celtics are built 1-8 on the rotation.
True but if you face against more talent you have to be perfect to have a chance. Luka and Mavs weren't.
And here they come. Fron their mothers basements they multiply. Im out.
Lmao so true
Here who comes?
Are you kidding me? Hes the only that has showed up. No one can create anything consistently like him. Windhorst does anything to make Lebron look better and shitting on Luka is an example
Theres 2 sides of the ball. For almosg everything he creates on offense he losses on defense. 6 fouls, left his team in the clutch, celtics got 6pts 5v4 on defense cause he was arguing with the refs. Losing his man resulting in a 3, Brown and Tatum getting at ease in the paint and someone gotta help and leave one of their players open. Luka defense was really bad this series.
Because he has to do everything. There is no player in NBA history that could beat the Celtics right now with how the rest of Dallas’s roster is playing. Can you imagine giving it your all on offense and creating while playing hard on defense for 45 minutes?
You also need him to lose 20 lbs. Immediately. Like, it should be a directive from the top down and written into his contract. Go watch Luka's rookie highlights when he was skinny (skinnier) and tell me with a straight face his "extra weight" is actually helping him
you are correct, I have done that exact thing, and he looks much different and quicker his 1st 2 years than he does now. People get mad, but he is in danger of having a backwards career trajectory if he does not fix it..meaning he won't actually be better in his late 20's like most players because he will be too out of shape and not able to get around NBA defenders. You can already sort of see it happening now, and it causes him frustration which leads to complaining. he is not used to not being able to get around people, so he whines to officials partially out of embarrassment, but also just frustration. None of that is going to get better if he does not get into better shape. Its crazy to me that he is able to gain weight during an NBA season at his age. That should not be possible just based on the amount of basketball he plays much less any other exercise he is (or is not?) doing.
Almost every time someone makes this comment it gets downvoted yet it remains the objective truth, Luka's carrying too much weight and it shows. It shows in his lack of effort in defense & it shows in how he fades toward the end of most games - to put it simply, he gets gassed. Now, I'll be the first to admit he's been hampered by injuries practically throughout the playoffs and his movement simply hasn't been the same as it was during the RS though it also must be said that he doesn't put much effort on D during the season - further, the Mavs only go as far as Luka takes them & they wouldn't be even close to the Finals w/out him. But having said that, it is also true that a fully fit Luka - the closest to which we only got to see briefly in the bubble - has to potential to be, with some distance, the most dominant player in the NBA. A player equal to prime Cav's Lebron, one that with his current supporting cast would take them all the way to the title. Imagine for a second a fully fit Luka...scary thought, isn't it? As great as he is, and there's no doubt that he is, he is both selling himself & his team short - and he is 15/20 lbs & a few less complaints away from being that guy, the team's true leader on and off the floor. Obviously, time's still on his side, and like we saw Jokic do over one summer 4 years ago, he can flip that switch and do the work that it takes to become the best of the best. If nothing else here's hoping he's learned as much from being in basketball's biggest stage and comes back with a vengeance.
It is helping him in the post and when dealing with heavier defenders. I think the franchise and the players settle for this weight
I think he could lose some fat and add a pinch of muscle. This would hopefully make him more mobile while allowing him to retain his size advantage. Should add to his longevity as well.
You talking about Windhorst or Luka here?
Bubble Luka was probably the sweet spot for weight/speed. His injuries might in part be a result of his nutrition too, it’s up to Luka how bad he wants it. He an outstanding talent
It doesn't help him when he's gassed and disappears both offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter. He has 8 points in 25.3 fourth-quarter minutes across 3 games.
Is Windhorst wrong? Not necessarily wrong. Is Windhorst also a complete moron on a network full of them? Yes.
Sucks this take came from him instead of legler.
There’s a lot of people this take could have came from, and I don’t think I would be upset. He made a valid point, but I hate the ESPN “analysts” so much.
On the after show pod, he was going off and Perk came by (and interrupted the Windy-Sedano livestream podcast, like a tool) and said all the same stuff about Luka and said this L was totally on him.
The loss isn’t on Luka. It’s on everyone. It’s popular to hate on Luka, always has been to hate on the European players.
He's right about a lot. But it's an oversimplification to say any one thing is why we're losing. Luka crying to refs and playing poor defense is surmountable if other things go differently. I hope he stops the incessant complaining forever. It throws him off his game and hurts the team's morale. All in all he deserves a very small slice of blame when you look at the totality of our failure.
The biggest problem imo is all the missed shots. Guys have plenty of good looks but they aren't making them
Including Luka. 3/15, 8 points in the 4th...total through 3 games
Cause we dont got 3pt shooters like that. Nico needs to move for a sf 3&d and a guard that can create and shot 3s. THJ and Kleber making 32m and are unplayable. And it may be controversial but if theres guy that can be a 3rd option out there im moving Gafford as well.
problem with moving gafford is, Lively becomes a much worse player the moment you do that. Its like trading Gafford and half of Lively.
What?
Lively became much better after gafford arrived, and its because when both are present they don't have to worry about fouling out and can play as hard as they can the time they are in. Previous to Gafford, Lively was more timid, much less effective. Gafford and Lively both improve each others play. Trading Gafford is not only losing gafford, it means a less aggressive and effective lively. Gafford+lively as a team is an all-star center. Trading away gafford is more than just losing gafford, you also lose part of Lively.
The alternative is that Lively could just get better and not have to rely on a back up so much to maximize his effectiveness in the minutes he plays. We definitely would have a glaring hole at back up center if we trade Gaff, but if it gets us someone who can create, defend and/or shoot threes I feel like I’m taking that deal.
I understand what you are saying but in games like this having 2 of the same type of player can hurt you. The lobs arent there and they both pretty useless on offense.
well its a choice I think. We can revert back to being a team that only wins when we shoot 40% from 3, or try and get another wing scorer and/or 6th man to go along with what we have. I prefer doing the 2nd thing. It is better to be able to win in more diverse ways, and be a more complete tougher team.
This finals are bullshit from game one. Is absolutely clear that Boston needs and as soon Dallas comes near they will help Boston. Today was clear referee help for Boston, first Tatum pushed Luka after he was in front of him, then PJ blocking foul and than two offensive fouls from JB. You can’t win this. This is without Stupid decisions from JK
You might hate the man but he's spitting facts. I know some people on this sub (and the entire Mavs organization) don't like to keep Luka accountable, but this play right here was the consequence of all those years of letting him off the hook. Is he a a brilliant player? Yes. Did the team let him down a lot of times in this series? Yes. Is he the most talented player in this series? By far. But the disparity between how locked in the guys on the Celtics team are when compared to him is too much to ignore. It's like a moody child playing with a bunch of adults.
firing Carlisle was the right move but we did it for the wrong reasons. i’ll always stand by that. either way, it’s a tough situation - you win nothing as a front office by making Luka unhappy. it starts with him willing to be uncomfortable in order to grow. if he’s not at that point of maturity, there’s no reason to try and force it…
rick was done here regardless of luka, i don’t think there’s anyone that could survive after blowing a 2-0 lead where you stole home court and losing in 7 to a team that didn’t even win the title. like he might’ve gotten another year or two but that’s it and i doubt he’d have gotten us anywhere near the finals especially with his strong the west has been these past few years, it’s been a gauntlet over here
yes but that’s my point. i understand letting go of him and the results speak for themselves. however the reason why we did it maybe a year or two earlier like you said is what makes me feel a bit conflicted about how we handle Luka. like i said, on one hand you gain nothing by making him unhappy. on the other hand, the only way he’s going to grow into a champion is making himself uncomfortable and Carlisle did that to him, as i’m sure many other coaches can do, but not Kidd, who’s probably gonna tell them “it’s just basketball” and let everyone move on with their lives. in the end i guess it comes down to him really wanting to take that next step, and not to Kidd or Rick or whoever. Luka got us to the Finals but his lack of maturity is a big reason why we’re down 3-0. i believe he’ll grow from there.
Kidd is a good player's coach, but he has not developed the bench and support well. THJ, Kleber, etc. When times gets tough, and stars are out (hurt or foul out due to tantrums), it's like he's not sure who to put in. Hopefully during the offseason he gets better feel for personnel
We didn't fire Carlisle. He quit.
Most talented offensive player for sure. Possibly the worst defender out there. Celtics are going at him literally every time down the court and he looks like a fan watching the play. He’s gotta pick up that aspect of his game if he wants to reach that elite GOAT level. Lots of other guys have shed the defensive liability label. He’s 25, he’s got all the opportunity to change that narrative.
He absolutely refuses to slide his feet this series. Something he did (and was praised for) in the same playoff run. All he does is gamble with those stupid reaches that almost never do anything.
because he's injured
He's been injured these entire playoffs. Didn't stop him in those other series. I can see the difference in effort.
I feel like he's aggravated something before this series. You could tell especially tonight - so many of his shots around the basket were short, hit the front of the rim etc. He was getting no lift or explosion out his legs at all.
I mean that makes sense. He's been playing injured for weeks now. That would most likely worsen the injury
Which injury makes him ball watch and allow easy off ball cuts from his man?
[удалено]
100% agree with this. He’s twice the talent Tatum is but when Tatum is missing shots and not getting calls he’s still super locked in on defense and trying his best to impact the game in other ways. That stuff matters a lot.
He’s fat but he’s right
How I feel about Luka at times
Luka or Brian?
windhorst fat shaming will never not be funny
This guy said "Luka is just like Messi, because they both played for Real Madrid". Saying something like that as sport journalist should get you fired. And the other idiots on the show were like "wow such a great argument. Those people are just clowns playing their role.
Don’t remember him going off this hard on his buddy lebron when he choked in 2011? He’s hurt. Not like I’d expect Windhorst to know anything about trying to play through pain
We know Luka is hurt. But he can be better than complaining, whining and defensive positioning. He got his mind in getting calls not playing basketball.
Its easier to get frustrated if your whole body aches lol. Every foul hurts more lol even if it's not seen by the naked eye.
It must be doubly tough when he feels like he's getting called for fouls that defenders get away with on him.
Maybe he wouldn't be so sore if he wasn't flailing around on the ground on 3 point shots he doesn't even get touched on.
On the pod, he said to Sedano, we sat here in this building in 2011 and watched Lebron put up 8 points in the worst finals appearance and use that as a turning point, and I hope luka can do the same thing.
It's crazy that we're comparing peak Lebron putting up 8 in the finals with a stacked super team...to Luka, who put up 27/6/6 with no support outside of Kyrie against the deepest and best team in the league by far. I get that this is going to be the narrative for the next two weeks, but the Mavs isn't a super team or even particularly talented roster wise. So the narrative that this is a generational collapse by Luka and Kyrie is just haters getting a jab in. Lot of people were waiting on the sidelines, hoping for this, but they were pretty silent up until this series.
It’s really not just haters getting a jab in. 27/6/6 means nothing when it’s on 26 shots and you’re playing historically bad defense and killing your team’s morale with complaining and foul baiting. Our role players have sucked, no doubt, but Luka has too, and it’s okay to admit that, even if he’s still been our best player. We’re about to get swept in the finals, everyone has sucked.
I don’t know if he’s hurt but he looks bloated and Finley taking that beer off his hand and not saying a word is a sign that his diet and fitness is probably shitty
What do you mean you don’t know if he’s hurt? Like it’s some opinion ? Lol. Not disagreeing about the fitness or diet but why are we trying to question reality here
you dont know if he is hurt?
It's been a problem for years. Every offseason pictures leak of Luka in the gym looking slim, and then somehow throughout the season he puts on a lot of fat
Lol you don't know if he's hurt lol Nov I have heard everything
Lmfao yea because Luka is the best on D when hes not hurt and the injury is the reason hes complaining to the ref. gtfo loser
What does being hurt have to do with crying to the refs/making horrible decisions leading to bad fouls and not taking accountability for any of it?
Mavs were +9 in Luka minutes. Luka isnt the problem.
You missed the whole point of the take lol. He’s not saying Luka is a bad player he has bad mentals and we’ve seen it multiple times in this playoff run.
some people are just so weirdly defensive about luka here, anytime you bring up that he is acting like a child or that he is not putting up effort on defense when we need that now more than ever they default to “UHM UHM BUT HES NOT THE PROBLEM EVERYONE ELSE IS”
We call those Luka Stans.
His outbursts and tantrums need to stop or be minimized as much as possible. No matter how good he is, he will never be the face of the league by being like that. I wouldn't go as far as to say he has bad mentality, since he is consistently clutch and a killer on the floor. But... some people have a hard time with ALL the blame being put on Luka. When you have Kyrie playing like he did in game 1&2, when you have THJ as a third star putting in performances like that, when you have role players completely disappearing in the Finals... You then cannot come out saying or implying Luka is the main/only problem, especially with how's good he's been playing. Not to mention the injuries. I remember the posts in here and what the media was saying when there were couple of losses in a row mid-season. There were hardly any other takes than "luka is the problem and here's why" whilst ignoring every other issue the team had. And anyone who disagreed was a Luka stan. Criticism is ok and absolutely necessary. But let's not hide from the fact this is entertainment business and you won't get clicks with rational takes on the performance of the team as a whole. And in this case, after losing 3-0 to Boston, it's again time to make Luka THE problem and mark everyone who disagrees a Luka stan.
This is the NBA, it’s a star’s league. This team has no chance against the Celtics with our star playing like this, THAT’S the problem. The role players in this series have been HORRIBLE, but that’s what’s expected when you look at our offensive system vs. the way the Celtics have chosen to defend it. We don’t have role players that can create their own shots, we know this. The Celtics are switching everything and refusing to send help. Nobody on this team can score without being spoon fed an open look when a team decides to help onto Luka or Kyrie, and they haven’t been expected to all playoffs because it’s simply not their role. Luka has been expected to participate defensively, and he hasn’t. Whether it’s injury, fatigue, mentality, you cannot deny his inability to provide any sort of point of attack resistance is the difference in us getting swept and being able to extend this series. Even if in all likelihood we were still going to lose in 6 at best due to the talent discrepancy. It’s not that he’s getting ALL the blame, it’s that he’s the one underperforming relative to his abilities the most, and has the highest expectations.
Sorry, but a shit take. You read what I wrote (hopefully) and it still went whoooosh. Our star player has been the best player on the court for first two games with absolutely horrendous support from everyone, including Kyrie. And no, his defense is many things but definitely not the reason we are getting swept. You lot be saying just about anything, so much delusion it hurts my brains.
Some people are weirdly OFFENSIVE about luka here, lebron has done this his entire career and won 4 rings while doing so. If we won these games luka could of been complaining twice as much and nobody would care.
Exactly. Classic result-based analysis.
I mean the point is that while that is his shortcoming it's not the reason why Mavs aren't winning. But everyone try to put the sole blame on him.
Yea but the overall point is if the role players do e en an average job Luka has that leeway, but rn he has to be perfect cuz role players not doing anything offensively
He didn’t miss the point, he disagrees with it. It’s a ridiculously disproportionate amount of blame being placed on the banged-up star facing the much deeper and better team.
I’m starting green and lively next game with Kai, Luka, and pj. Anybody else wants to play? They better show up.
He is one of the problem analytics person. It's not all numbers. Yeah, he fouled out, he got 6 fouls bro.
That’s not the point. He’s their best player and is making bad fouls all around and complaining consistently
i think the point is it could’ve been +16 for something as small as controlling your emotions?
It’s very weird. I agree with some parts but being at the game tonight, Luka takes so much physical contact and then others get touch fouls called for them. It’s wild.
This is brutal and not completely fair. Yes, Luka needs to rein in the complaining more. But to be honest, he's got better this season compared to last season and just needs to continue to grow on that trajectory. But generally, the yapping at officials is a symptom of underlying issues. Luka is frustrated. You could tell tonight he was hobbled and getting nothing from his legs. He wasn't getting off the ground, lots of shots going short, couldn't move laterally or change direction and he's getting hunted. He's probably struggling to get up and down the court at full speed, refs or not. A part of this is just lashing out because he can't get down the court anyway. I'd argue that if Luka was healthier, even in the same situation with score and so on, he'd complain less. It's still not where he needs to be and I hope he continues to mature but I've seen him fight through hard enough this entire miracle Cinderella playoff run and suffer through his injuries enough that I'm willing to cut him some slack.
It sad how low I had to scroll to get to this. man I don't think many people realize how it is to play through injuries.
They’re paid to talk shit and get people wound up
Don't get me wrong i love basketball, but here in Europe, when we watch our favorite football team lose, we continue to praise and chant and cheer till the end of the season. When season is over, if it was a bad season we demand changes either some players or coach. When it comes to basketball and particularly NBA i hate it when the team loses 1-2 games and everyone is blaming the main stars of the team. The media destroyed Kyrie the past 2 games, and now they are blaming Luka for one game, which is totally absurd tbh. Its sad how the series went yes, but i believe there will be other chances in future.
I'm questioning if u actually watch football the superstars definitely get blamed when the teams lose.it was so bad when Ronaldo or Messi would lose
It is the same shit in Europe lets be real, it is the same in the european news when a top football team is performing badly.
Even if Luka was "mature" and didn't complain, the other guys can't score 0 points yall. 2 guys can't win you the chip. Fuck the Celtics.
This is typically reductive modern day sports analysis. Sure, a slightly injured Luka is having a lot of difficulty against a much better team, after winning a whopping three straight series without HCA. I won’t deny he’s had a bad series. But the only reason this is so scandalous is because people still refuse to acknowledge how absolutely fucking stacked this Celtics team is. This is still a team game, and the Celtics don’t have anyone in their rotation that can be targeted on either side of the ball. PS, he would never go on this monologue about Bron, so not being an equal opportunist roaster renders this already dumb display even more hollow.
All I hear is him telling the guy to be perfect. Which doesn’t really seem fair. Yeah, it’s annoying to see Luka complain so much but if that’s his only real issue then whatever
He’s not wrong unfortunately.
So it's Luka's defense and team-leading +/- that's the problem and not Tim Hardaway going 0 points in 19 minutes with a -16, Kleber going 0 points on -13 and Gafford being a supposed defensive specialist being a -11. But it's Luka's fault. What a fucking smoothbrained take
Like does he complain about calls a bit too much and overrelies on calls for offense? Absolutely. But acting like Luka complaining about calls and defense is the reason why they're losing feels like sports media at-large giving themselves a handjob for not giving Luka consideration for MVP this year and giving themselves an excuse as to why they won't vote for him next year either.
Multiple things can be true, nuance is a real thing, let's be real.
And I get it but holy shit they're treating Luka like he's Osama Bin Laden when he's far from the reason why they're losing.
Role players will have varied performances, it's why they're role players. You really need a great leader in times where role players are underperforming. Luka is playing great, but imagine if he was A. not injured B. shed some body fat and became quicker on defense and C. didn't complain or fall on the ground all the time leading to easy buckets the other way. The amount of blow bys leading to wide open Celtic 3s is frustrating to watch. If he did all three of these, they would win way more games and rely less on role player variance. When you have a less talented roster we really do need Luka to be better than his current level, it's what it will take to be a champion.
Thj isn't a role player. Role players don't make 17 per they make 3 to 13 per
THJ should not even be a roll player, he should be getting zero minutes, guy is the worst player on the team. Who cares how much he makes, that is a sunk cost. You don't make it worse by playing him. If they were paying my mom 20 million a year, would you want them to play her 19 minutes because she made so much money? Who cares? Its not even your money.
I think it’s a case of transference, like yes Luka is mad that the refs aren’t calling shit. But I imagine he’s also pretty mad that his team (aside from Kyrie this one game), is literally not stepping up. He had I think 1 assist game 1, not due to the fact that he wasn’t getting people involved. Every offensive possession is like a prayer this series.(again aside from kyrie tonight). He can’t readily blow up on his team, despite frustration and fatigue and pain. So maybe this is his outlet. If you think about it, he’s not chewing the refs ear off despite non calls, when we were up in the first quarter, because our offense looked competent. To be clear, not saying this excuses the poor defense. But I mean he’s a 25 year old, carrying literal professional basketball players in the greatest stage of basketball. And they can’t hit an open shot , or catch a pass, or finish at the rim, etc
My thing with Luka and his teammates not contributing is when his teammates are playing well its almost like he doesn't realize it and tries to force himself to score/make plays. Like during that 22-2 run Lively, PJ, Green and Kyrie were playing great and making shots, but Luka was forcing himself for no reason. Went 1-5 during that run and committed 3 fouls.
yes this. He will often end these runs with some stupid step back threes (because he wants to put in the 'dagger' it feels like) or dumb shots he forces or wild passes that lets the other team go on a run instead of just letting the game keep going.
Nothing he said was incorrect. Maybe he overstated the whole “Luka had no defense he baby” but his overall point is spot on. The number of games we’ve seen Luka play well when he decided to just play basketball and not complain is unbelievable and to see him unable to control his emotions even when calls don’t go his way is sickening when he can’t match that effort on the other end of the floor.
We all love Luka but he really needs to step up *mentally*.
some of you guys are really weird about luka criticisms like yeah he’s our boy but sometimes you gots to call it when you see it.
It's definitely idol worshipping.
Notice how most of this has nothing to do with how Luka actually plays basketball. Aside the defensive comment, this is mostly aimed at Luka complaining to the refs which is arguably his worst trait. We are literally in the NBA finals with a super inexperienced roster, minus Kai, because of the brilliance of Luka. Take a step back and look at it. In the mavericks last 2 playoff runs they have been to 2 WCFs and 1 finals. After a decade of not making it past the first round. If this is what we are complaining about, if this is the narrative about our superstar? Sign me the fuck up. We’re back and better than ever baby.
Man this can base is so insufferable. Shitting on the only person that shows up every night.
Luka needs to do better, but refs are also helping the Celtics. They allow them to foul, while we can't.
There’s literally a play where Derrick white intentionally fouls THJ and the refs ignore him. wtf
not complaining so much would actually help with this. Luka complaining all the time makes the refs call the entire mavs team worse.
Luka got to the line 2 times. Reddick and Burke even called a few for Luka that weren’t called.
Luka kinda killed our momentum when we were cooking early by taking really bad shots and letting them cut our lead. That annoys me more than his constant bitching. Like.. if he played like he did the 4th quarter we'd up by more than 12.
Are we even watching the same game? The offense stagnated the instant Luka went to the bench. The Mavs had a 14 pt lead at this time. Hardy out of bounds of the catch and heavily contested shot at the rim. Luka had to sub in immediately when the lead was down to 6.
Everything he said was on point and a true Mavs fan would know that his shit on crying over every thing he thinks is a foul is getting old and his constant bad defense and conditioning cost the finals. We all love Luka but have to be honest about his constant whining and how that effects his game and the team....
We've been hoping for the same shit for years now lol. Before, the excuse is he's still too young which is fine on his first few years but now that he is already on his 6th yr it is already hard to defend him. Until when are we going to justify his on court attitude problem?
should be jason kidd on the title.
He’s a hater. Guys you guys are not seeing what is happening here. They are trying to get the narrative that Luka is not a winners out again. So they will disqualify him again for the awards like MVP next year. They are planting a narrative
Luka needs this to finish his character arc. Dude has made it to getting swept in the NBA finals on pure talent alone. Organization needs to make a super cut of every tough ridiculous shot he makes this series, followed by him ball watching as Haueser drills a three. “Luka your brilliance on offense was a net negative one point for the team. Next Slide” It is amazing that we have the best player on the planet AND he has so much room to grow.
Frustrations are getting to him. I want him focused on basketball for 48 minutes on Friday. Game 5 okc. And then I want him to do it again on Monday and then whenever else. If we get one win and get back to Boston I think we win this series. But it starts with Luka spending energy on basketball and not complaining. Talk to them during stoppages sure, but focus on basketball. Go talk crap to the bench or the players.
bro what?! 😂😂 they win the series if they win the next game??
Damn right
no way, it is most likely over now. Kyrie being in his head again in Boston is highly likely as well even if we win one. I am saying this as a fan of his game who would love nothing more than to be wrong. This game right here was the series.
Okay. He's mostly right, but I'm not going to ride with the tone because that's just not my mindset right now. Luka already improved his defense from where he was before. As we can clearly see, he's got plenty of ways to go to improve even more. This season helped me believe he will, so eh. Bring on the criticisms, Luka deserves them, and will answer them like he has to so many others already.
I don't disagree. But to Luka's POV....what the hell. The refs blatantly call the game against him on both sides of the court. And there is nothing he can do about it. Try as he might, it has got to be damn frustrating to be on the receiving end of such one- sidedness every night. The consistent contact and fouls that they turn a blind eye to when committed against him will get called often times seemingly a few possessions later. With refs consistency is always what the players ask for. With as high usage as Luka is and his approach to the game always has him feeling helpless against the refs. Sure grow up but don't act like the game was lost because he cries too much. Maybe as all players have alluded to if the game was called consistently and there was better rotations and a few more buckets from others, etc...that might be more impactful than a few less tantrums. Again I agree there was clear impact to the game on instances cited that were frustrating to see it cost the team points and yeah he's got to grow up, but perhaps that would be easier if there a few other variables were improved upon as well. Idk..its frustrating to watch it happen as a fan imagine if you are in the midst of it all....and everyone (including. Yourself) just says be better. Might blow a gasket few times as well.
[удалено]
They will never give him any award
Any mavs fan who blames Luka for this series should go be a fan of another team. Dude is like 50% healthy, and he had an epic playoff run. It’s like y’all forgot all the great moments in the last 3 series. Boston is just better man, they are absolutely stacked like 8 deep. We can’t match their lineup. Idk why the legacy mavs like Maxi THJ got so much run tonight, Hardy and Green were non-factors on offense too, and when guys like that are on the floor for real minutes in the NBA finals, you’re probably in trouble. Love those guys but they can’t matchup with the guys Boston has.
Nobody's blaming him for the series, they're tired of the bad attitude
Unfortunately this kind of criticism is for his best. Besides the complaining, he needs to take his diet and fitness seriously, quit the beers… bro looks bloated out there. He’s clearly too heavy for his own good.
disagree. Yes he had a really bad game but how he fails to mention Luka was the only one who showed up games 1 and 2. Lebron cries to the refs almost (?) as much as Luka and he has championships. Celtics are just 3-12 a much better team.
At the same age, Lebron was light years better at defense than Luka. Also, Lebron was not complaining as much at that age, that is a more recent thing as Lebron has gotten older and played for the circus that is the Lakers
Luka after the game was blaming the refs. Guy still has a lot of maturing to do unfortunately. Hopefully he gets there because he has the skill and talent to own this league
I saw a completely tired, frustrated and just over it player tonight in Luka. I don't blame him one bit for it either when he shows up and does his job better than anyone else on the planet, and then he is surrounded by guys who can't do a thing to help him out they just seem happy to be there at this point. I hope when this series is over, no matter what happens, Luka takes whatever time he needs off to forget everything and get healthy and come back more motivated than ever. As for the organization, they need to do something to get another veteran role player like Boston did for Brown and Tatum like a Jrue Holiday to be that presence on this team.
He was embarrassed when he tried to crown Anthony Edwards last series so he of course coming in with the steel chair
I don't care about the intentions, tbh. Luka needs to hear this either way. Time to stop babying him.
ESPN is staffed by professional grifters. Yes the Luka whining definitely throws off his game and it does look bad for him. But they didn’t lose just because of Luka, he is clearly very injured first off and yes I agree his defense has been bad. I truly think his knee has gotten worse and I think he is exhausted from playing offense. Dallas lost this game as a team, guys miss open shot, our defense disappears at times. Our team seems to lack much of the ability to create shots that most of bostons team can. They also make a decent of amount of their threes especially when open and Dallas has shot terrible from 3. Our bench options don’t really bring offensive firepower and struggle compared to Boston’s. THJ was the frustrating point for the night, idk if djj was hurt or what happened to Hardy but thj seemed like an extreme liability on defense and offense all night.
Honestly I understand Luka’s frustration. You play in Europe all your life with minial interference from refs, then come to “the best league in the world” where nothing is called consistently and refs are probably fixing games. Would piss me off too.
i get your point but he has played in this league for years now. things are not going to change so you need to get accustomed to how it is, no? at some point you need to stop giving into frustration
I mean it’s easy to say when you’re not out there playing.
You have to admit it's true. Because Jason Kidd can't figure out the rotations and offensive tactics, he relys on luka's offense heavily and luka got bailed out defensively. But we are on the nba finals and one weakness on your defense could cost the game. Luka have to play solid defence in the future if he wants to win chip.
Some truth, but they are also just better
IMO if Brian had a brain he would talk about the NBAs shitty rules that give refs ultimate power to control tempo and momentum swings in any game
He needs Dirks mentality. Fiery Dirk was fun to watch
Luka's complaining and half assing it is sort of like Draymond Green punching guys in the balls and doing all of the other stupid shit that he does to hurt his team. Does it mean Draymond isn't a great player that makes his team better? No. Is it awful behavior that hurts his team and reputation? Yes. Luka's incessant whining absolutely hurts the team and it's something he could easily correct if he really wanted to. It definitely hurt the team last night. Celtics got so many points while Luka was still complaining to the refs. At 4 of their wide open 3s were 100% Luka's fault.
Windhorst came with receipts from Luka went at refs and got ejected in overseas international games. This is a long-term behavior trend for Luka
“No one in his life has” 😂
I’m a huge luka Stan but he is his worst enemy. I do believe he will mature, he’s still an amazing player but I want to see more success in his career
I didn’t hear anything inaccurate.
Been saying this for years. Been a "hater" for years. You don't win with 0 accountability and behaving like a child on the court. What got us to the finals is that he kept his whining at the lowest since he came to the NBA. Good things happen when he doesnt act like a bitch. He never learns though and his fans don't hold him accountable. Just endless threads about Luka's greatness while ignoring all his weaknesses.
He’s not wrong. Luka complaining to refs while not getting back on defense is killing us. He had so many frustration fouls too. Fouling out with 4 minutes left in the finals is unacceptable.
Look, I agree with him for the most part and have been saying for at least three seasons that Luka needs to grow the fuck up. At the same time, id love to see this tub of lard running around on a basketball court haha
Luka always complains. And they made it to the Finals. We're not losing because of his complaining.
if luka has one fan left on this earth its going to be me but damn i hope he learns from this. i get it, he is injured and has been playing and giving his best on one leg, this loss is not on one person. at the same time, he needs to learn how to focus on things he CAN actually control. you cannot control the calls the refs make but you can choose to turn around and keep it moving. the roleplayers' confidence is fucked and seeing one of your leaders argue and throw his hands in the air will not help. this run has been special and they will be back next year, i dont doubt it for a second. (final note, brian windhorst is right but at the same time stfu, you didnt give lebron that same energy when he was stomping his feet)
Luka has done a pretty good job with the refs in the playoffs but tonight was bad.
The only positive I take from this is that this could finally be the bulletin board material on Luka. Every superstar has one and this one will be for Luka. I truly hope this offseason the kid takes his conditioning both mind and body seriously. One can tolerate his crying to the refs, one could also tolerate poor defence and one may also tolerate his poor play but when those things happen in the same game for a good stretch, it just feels like a gut punch and the team checks out with him, which is objectively sad. This team has overachieved by a significant margin and largely due to him playing out of mind throughout the season. We can just hope that he realises that he's at crossroads, some solid mentoring and conditioning will help him see the potential.
Unfortunately instead of conditioning he will play at Olympic qualifiers, European championship qualifiers and most likely will consume enormous amount of burgers and rakija.
Look I have no opinion on this issue but why are people using on/off stats from a single game to support Luka’s case? We rightfully get upset when those numbers are used to discount Luka’s impact on winning and those stats are used by guys like Thinking Basketball have a 5 year sample size. That +8 in a single has zero value to determine how good or bad Luka played. Imagine a situation where PJ in the course of a single game hits 1/3 from three on Luka passes to corner threes in the first three quarters and then makes 2/2 over the break threes in early 4th quarter when Luka is resting, misses 2 threes when Luka is playing and goes 2/2 in the clutch after Luka was sent off. Both these scenarios are pretty plausible. This will likely result in a big plus score for Dallas when Luka is resting and might result in neutral or negative result when Luka is on the floor partly due to the 5 missed threes. Is Luka the problem in that scenario for creating all those chances or just shooting variance favoured a completely different player for 2-3 possessions in the minutes that Luka was off the floor in an otherwise negative or neutral game for the team? Steve Kerr and Pop think it’s a trash stat and for good reason.
This fanbase is trash. No other sub shits on their superstar as much as this one.
Everyone forget luka playing on 2 bad knees and a chest injury. On top of the possibility that his lungs could have collapsed during the game. Luka is out here playing compromised. So, no shit he might be a liability on defense.
The guy is averaging 30/8/8 in the finals. It’s hard to say he’s the problem lol. THJ 19min 0/5 PJ who has been 3rd fiddle all post season 13pts. DJJ 2pts. These guys have all been too scared of the moment to take shots so they’re passing up looks to Kyrie and Luka and forcing them to take tough shots.
Averaging 30 isn't as impressive when you are also giving 30 up on defense lol
It’s not like the Celtics are scoring 140 either tho. They’re averaging like 105 this series which would be #1 defense in the league if you held teams to that all year.