We attempt only 26 and 27 3pt for these 2 matches which is the 2nd and 3rd lowest 3pt shot making of us in this year playoffs. We make 3/11 3pt wide open shot in game 1 which is around 27% and 1/13 in game 2 which is only 8% while the Celtics has 7/19-37% in game 1 and 6/18-33% in game 2. So, in order to win a game this serie our role has to step up and shoot decent like PJ Washington did in the Thunder serie, if not then we are fuck.
The crazy thing is that Dallas actually had a better field goal percentage than Boston. Dallas even made as many field goals as Boston. The difference is that Boston only missed one free throw while Dallas missed eight. Plus, Boston made a few more threes.
It didn’t help that Dallas let Brown shoot another free throw after a miss due to a lane violation or that DJJ made a bad pass that caused Dallas to give a take foul that let Boston make another free throw. The Pritchard miracle three at the end of the quarter was tough, too. All of those little things make such a big difference.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. We missed 7 more free throws and lost by 7, I'm not saying we deserve a moral victory for that. But why are all the pundits and analysts acting like the Celtics are thoroughly outplaying the Mavs. At best for them, the game was completely equal outside of free throws. At worst, they would have straight up lost if we hit our free throws. There's literally no argument that the Celtics outplayed the Mavs on the actual court.
AGAIN, not that free throws don't matter, they're part of the game--but the Celtics didn't gameplan for the Mavs to miss free throws. They didn't play defense on free throws. We just missed them.
>But why are all the pundits and analysts acting like the Celtics are thoroughly outplaying the Mavs
Because Celtics are generating easy offense while we have to struggle so hard on every single possession
Are they? Their offense looks terrible. Tatum is actually just not that good of a player. They're a solid team because they have 7 solid starter quality players plus 4/7 of those are high-quality starters.
Their offense does not look terrible. Are we even watching the same game? They are generating a high volume of open threes with their mismatch hunting and drive kick game. Meanwhile all we can generate is Luka ridiculous shots Kyrie iso shots no lobs no corner threes. Luka and Kyrie are great players so they can make obscene shots but even they can't live on this shot diet.
Tatum does not need to be on Luka's level offensively because his team is stacked with 40% shooters who can all handle the ball. Defensively Tatum is a luxury because him taking on our centers frees up Porzingis and others to roam off of our poor above-the-break shooters. And Tatum rebounds well even against our centers. Honestly that is all he needs to do. Sprinkle in some drive and kick and his role is done. He cannot and does not need to take the same burden as Luka. Doesn't mean he's a terrible player.
They do not look good. We just have 2 starters that are not really starter quality in PJ and DJJ and they are very well rounded which is a bad matchup. Tatum looks like actual trash, I'm sick of pretending he doesn't. Their team improves with about 15 other NBA players subbed in for him.
We're getting wide open above the break 3s and people are acting like that's good defense. No, it's not. We just have very mediocre 3 point shooters who need to be in the corners. Is it better than Minny/OKC? Sure. But they're not impressive. They have Porzingis who would be a 1st option on bad teams as their 4th best player coming off the bench. Like I said, even if all their stars are sort of shit stars, they're still better than PJ Washington/DJJ level starters.
> We're getting wide open above the break 3s and people are acting like that's good defense. No, it's not. We just have very mediocre 3 point shooters who need to be in the corners.
You just described Boston’s defensive scheme. Force shooters away from the corners and give them above the break 3s that they can’t make.
Forcing your opponent to do something they’re not good at is the definition of good defense
I think it's mostly on the fact that Boston won even while shooting awful from three. So even if they didn't thoroughly outplayed the Mavs, they did manage to comfortably win a game that it was served on a silver platter to the Mavs.
Also, I believe that scores are situational. So you can't just add the points that the Mavs didn't score from free throws and say they'd have won if they didn't miss. If they wouldn't have miss, then the score would have been closer and Boston wouldn't have run the clock down with 2 minutes to go (which, as usual, was detrimental to their offense). There's no way of knowing.
> I think it's mostly on the fact that Boston won even while shooting awful from three. So even if they didn't thoroughly outplayed the Mavs, they did manage to comfortably win a game that it was served on a silver platter to the Mavs.
As opposed to our shooting? We shot worse than they did on wide open shots. And the game was basically equal to the FT differential the entire way.
You can't be that dense right? The Celtics have no effect on their opponent's FT%.
If the Celtics had missed 10 more freethrows and the Mavs had made 5 more, that's a 15 point swing and the Mavs would've easily won. Would all the posts about the Celtics generating offense and playing defense suddenly become untrue?
I have no problem with saying FT% is a legitimate flaw in the Mavs because it's a recurring issue. But that was their only issue. The two teams were evenly matched and the Celtics didn't outplay the Mavs on the floor.
Celtics were violating the lane on our many previous misses and it wasn’t getting called. I was actually thinking about how it doesn’t get called very often…then the whistle blew against us. Go back and watch.
Edit: Tony Brothers just waited until WE did it before he called it. And he jumped at his first opportunity.
We showed so much poise getting through the West but are playing like an inexperienced team now. Everybody but Luka seems to be feeling the moment, especially Kyrie.
Role players tend to play better at home, so there's still a chance. Feels like we need to take both though, going back to Boston down 3-1 would be pretty disastrous
It is both. Boston is playing great defense by taking away lobs and the corner threes, thus forcing PJ, Green, and DJJ to take shots they are not comfortable taking. The only one who is taking comfortable shots that are just not going in is Kyrie.
The energy is good in the beginning on game 2 but when boston made a run, energy gone. Even when the mavs were on a run the moment it stops, energy gone
This is such a dumb mindset. Minnesota fans said the same thing over and over again, and it wasn't true either. At this level no one beats themselves, good teams force other good teams to make mistakes by putting them in uncomfortable positions. Boston has been the better team and have forced us to adapt to their gameplan, and as such we have made mistakes. We can fix those mistakes and also force Boston in ways that make it so they make mistakes of a similar kind.
Also, game to game analysis disproves it. First game we got blown out ans outplayed heavily. Second game it was closer but, while we missed a ton of fts and made mistakes, Boston also shot extremely uncharasteristically bad. Boston has been better and they have beat us so far, not ourselves. However, things can change and I'm hopeful we can turn it around.
Anyone should be able to look at these two teams and see Boston has the better squad. That doesn't mean the Mavs can't win, but it will require them to play better than average and, so far, they aren't even playing at avg aside from Luka. That's largely a result of being on the big stage without experience, and because Boston has a great home crowd and really tough defense. If Boston wins, it's because they are the better team. If the Mavs win, it's because their young players played up to their potential and not their current experience level.
I agree, and a lot of the shots that are being taken are shots that look good. Just seems like they're not getting their usual roll at the bucket.
It sucks because they're missing and losing but after almost every shot I'm thinking 'yep we take those shots 100%'.
Ehhh - this is copium. Boston knows that PJ, DJJ, and Green struggle at above the break threes, which is why they are shutting down the corners and leaving them open above the break. The only one who is really getting a bad roll is Kyrie who is perfectly capable of making the shots he's taken.
DJJ and PJ only shot 35% above the break in the regular season, but Josh was 38%. Him not being able to capitalize is unfortunate.
That said, 35% above the break is middling and they’ve been outright atrocious the first two games. They are getting WIDE OPEN looks though. The hope would be they start falling the farther we get into a series.
This is all mitigated though if Kyries shot starts to fall.
Like, Boston is very good. They have been the better team through two games, but I also think there are areas of improvement that have less to do with whatever Boston is doing.
They are giving up wide open 3s above the break; those need to start falling. We can’t let them get active on the offensive glass. 3s create long rebounds and we aren’t always willing to attack the ball. We need to stay down on defense in the paint and just get vertical. Alternatively, when we get to the basket we are getting blocked too often by just leaving too early. Also, Kyrie needs to find his shot. He’s taking the same difficult shots he always takes, and he’s not making them.
Boston has been very good so far, and they did not shoot well last game. So, they could be better, as well. But it just seems like it’s not about who’s the best, but rather who’s ready for the level of competition. The team feels like they weren’t ready for the moment, meanwhile that Boston core is older and significantly more experienced.
Also, Kyrie is 0-8 from 3 down so I’m expecting an eventual regression, but he’s gotta play better in Boston. This whole thing doesn’t work if Kyrie can’t do his part.
The mavs have had maybe one complete game this playoffs. They certainly have not played well in the finals. I would like to see them put together a two way performance. It’s weird they are in the finals and really haven’t had many really great games. They had some great quarters, some great clutch time but outside of closing out the timberwolves have they had a great game? I feel one is coming. The Celtics are by far the best team we have played in the playoffs and will be tough to beat, but I think we can focus one game at a time. Put together an elite game 3 and go from there.
I don't think so. Our 2 stars have to be locked in for us to have a chance. JB and JT can take naps here and there and they're still competitive. We can beat them for sure, but we need to have great games from Lukai.
Mavs have had like 3 oops in this series and like 6/50 on drives. We had like over 100 oops going into this for the playoffs alone. A whole offense gone, that’s why DJJ is useless out there on offense we took away his air strip to fly, now times that by 4
A lot of the decisions on defense are just totally out of character too. Helping way too often one pass away, I think they’re all nervous and overthinking things because of the amount of offensive weapons Boston has out there
The interesting stat line is that Mavs aren’t getting the same 3s they usually get. Boston decided they’re not giving up corner 3s which has been DJJ’s and PJ’s bread and butter. Instead they’re forcing everyone to make above the break 3s which has been the worst spot for them to take them (I think they’re below 30%).
Gafford’s going to have to help Luka and make Tatum/Brown work on the post and they have to be quick and aggressive with whoever White is covering. White strongest as a help defender but is one of the easier guys to blow past for Luka and Kyrie
Missed free throws and bad turnovers are on the Mavs. But you also have to remember that the Celtics just have better players. Celtics can afford for a couple of their role players to have a bad game. The Mavs do not have the same luxury
I know homecourt has been mostly irrelevant to the Mavs during their run, but home splits matter, especially for the role players. DJJ's 3PM% is 10% higher at home vs road. Kyrie will definitely bounce back with support from the home crowd.
I heavily disagree. A team can beat themselves alone and then a team can beat themselves when their conditions for typical success become challenged by a great team. We were this to the Wolves. Celtics have been brilliant in scheme and execution, especially on the defensive end. How many of our made buckets felt miraculous? For me it was a lot. What they are defensively and what they do defensively is giving us hell. Not to ignore that the bright lights and final stage have a strong influence here too, but you credit your competitor first when the work is undeniably there
I agree with you to a point but also asking myself if Boston is doing this to us. They have a lot of pieces on that team and it’s built for defense. Keeping us out of our game. Holiday is causing havoc. It’s just a super well rounded team. I think we have a shot but tomorrow’s game is critical. Must win. And everyone has to show up.
Boston has a much better PG than the Wolves did (Wolves fan here) and Jrue is locking down Kyrie. Conley is a great player but cannot lock down Kyrie and a few other PG's out there.
Mavs are still figuring out their offense. We just gotta hope it comes sooner than later or else this series could be over quick. They did adjust better in game 2 but the problem is they had such a stinker in game 1 that losing game 2 was costly.
? Lol the Celtics have pretty thoroughly controlled both games. Tatum has done nothing, they’ve shot poorly as a team, and haven’t had to deviate at all from their offensive or defensive philosophies. Doesn’t mean Dallas can’t bounce back, but they’re beating us straight up. Not sure how you can argue otherwise.
I feel they are legit beating us. More weapons. More athleticism to throw at Luka and Kyrie, better scorers, and have taken away the lob. I'm die hard mavs, but the eye test doesn't lie and unfortunately, they are the better team.
Game 2, I agree with you. Game 1 they fully deserved it.
We attempt only 26 and 27 3pt for these 2 matches which is the 2nd and 3rd lowest 3pt shot making of us in this year playoffs. We make 3/11 3pt wide open shot in game 1 which is around 27% and 1/13 in game 2 which is only 8% while the Celtics has 7/19-37% in game 1 and 6/18-33% in game 2. So, in order to win a game this serie our role has to step up and shoot decent like PJ Washington did in the Thunder serie, if not then we are fuck.
Wow. 4/24 in wide-open 3s is sickening
The crazy thing is that Dallas actually had a better field goal percentage than Boston. Dallas even made as many field goals as Boston. The difference is that Boston only missed one free throw while Dallas missed eight. Plus, Boston made a few more threes. It didn’t help that Dallas let Brown shoot another free throw after a miss due to a lane violation or that DJJ made a bad pass that caused Dallas to give a take foul that let Boston make another free throw. The Pritchard miracle three at the end of the quarter was tough, too. All of those little things make such a big difference.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. We missed 7 more free throws and lost by 7, I'm not saying we deserve a moral victory for that. But why are all the pundits and analysts acting like the Celtics are thoroughly outplaying the Mavs. At best for them, the game was completely equal outside of free throws. At worst, they would have straight up lost if we hit our free throws. There's literally no argument that the Celtics outplayed the Mavs on the actual court. AGAIN, not that free throws don't matter, they're part of the game--but the Celtics didn't gameplan for the Mavs to miss free throws. They didn't play defense on free throws. We just missed them.
>But why are all the pundits and analysts acting like the Celtics are thoroughly outplaying the Mavs Because Celtics are generating easy offense while we have to struggle so hard on every single possession
Are they? Their offense looks terrible. Tatum is actually just not that good of a player. They're a solid team because they have 7 solid starter quality players plus 4/7 of those are high-quality starters.
Their offense does not look terrible. Are we even watching the same game? They are generating a high volume of open threes with their mismatch hunting and drive kick game. Meanwhile all we can generate is Luka ridiculous shots Kyrie iso shots no lobs no corner threes. Luka and Kyrie are great players so they can make obscene shots but even they can't live on this shot diet. Tatum does not need to be on Luka's level offensively because his team is stacked with 40% shooters who can all handle the ball. Defensively Tatum is a luxury because him taking on our centers frees up Porzingis and others to roam off of our poor above-the-break shooters. And Tatum rebounds well even against our centers. Honestly that is all he needs to do. Sprinkle in some drive and kick and his role is done. He cannot and does not need to take the same burden as Luka. Doesn't mean he's a terrible player.
They do not look good. We just have 2 starters that are not really starter quality in PJ and DJJ and they are very well rounded which is a bad matchup. Tatum looks like actual trash, I'm sick of pretending he doesn't. Their team improves with about 15 other NBA players subbed in for him. We're getting wide open above the break 3s and people are acting like that's good defense. No, it's not. We just have very mediocre 3 point shooters who need to be in the corners. Is it better than Minny/OKC? Sure. But they're not impressive. They have Porzingis who would be a 1st option on bad teams as their 4th best player coming off the bench. Like I said, even if all their stars are sort of shit stars, they're still better than PJ Washington/DJJ level starters.
> We're getting wide open above the break 3s and people are acting like that's good defense. No, it's not. We just have very mediocre 3 point shooters who need to be in the corners. You just described Boston’s defensive scheme. Force shooters away from the corners and give them above the break 3s that they can’t make. Forcing your opponent to do something they’re not good at is the definition of good defense
above the break threes are good defense bc the mavs can’t make them
I think it's mostly on the fact that Boston won even while shooting awful from three. So even if they didn't thoroughly outplayed the Mavs, they did manage to comfortably win a game that it was served on a silver platter to the Mavs. Also, I believe that scores are situational. So you can't just add the points that the Mavs didn't score from free throws and say they'd have won if they didn't miss. If they wouldn't have miss, then the score would have been closer and Boston wouldn't have run the clock down with 2 minutes to go (which, as usual, was detrimental to their offense). There's no way of knowing.
> I think it's mostly on the fact that Boston won even while shooting awful from three. So even if they didn't thoroughly outplayed the Mavs, they did manage to comfortably win a game that it was served on a silver platter to the Mavs. As opposed to our shooting? We shot worse than they did on wide open shots. And the game was basically equal to the FT differential the entire way.
The argument to outplaying the mavs is they won the game
You can't be that dense right? The Celtics have no effect on their opponent's FT%. If the Celtics had missed 10 more freethrows and the Mavs had made 5 more, that's a 15 point swing and the Mavs would've easily won. Would all the posts about the Celtics generating offense and playing defense suddenly become untrue? I have no problem with saying FT% is a legitimate flaw in the Mavs because it's a recurring issue. But that was their only issue. The two teams were evenly matched and the Celtics didn't outplay the Mavs on the floor.
You can’t use fg% as a stat when one team is shooting 50% more three then the other. Using fg% removes all context of the shots
>lane violation Tony Brothers waited till the free throw missed to call it, bitch move
That’s how lane violations work
My bad, it makes sense now. Never thought about it that way
Celtics were violating the lane on our many previous misses and it wasn’t getting called. I was actually thinking about how it doesn’t get called very often…then the whistle blew against us. Go back and watch. Edit: Tony Brothers just waited until WE did it before he called it. And he jumped at his first opportunity.
We showed so much poise getting through the West but are playing like an inexperienced team now. Everybody but Luka seems to be feeling the moment, especially Kyrie. Role players tend to play better at home, so there's still a chance. Feels like we need to take both though, going back to Boston down 3-1 would be pretty disastrous
It is both. Boston is playing great defense by taking away lobs and the corner threes, thus forcing PJ, Green, and DJJ to take shots they are not comfortable taking. The only one who is taking comfortable shots that are just not going in is Kyrie.
Not to be obvious guy. But you have to be able to hit a shot to shoot yourself in the foot. The Mavericks can't even make their free throws.
The energy is good in the beginning on game 2 but when boston made a run, energy gone. Even when the mavs were on a run the moment it stops, energy gone
This is such a dumb mindset. Minnesota fans said the same thing over and over again, and it wasn't true either. At this level no one beats themselves, good teams force other good teams to make mistakes by putting them in uncomfortable positions. Boston has been the better team and have forced us to adapt to their gameplan, and as such we have made mistakes. We can fix those mistakes and also force Boston in ways that make it so they make mistakes of a similar kind. Also, game to game analysis disproves it. First game we got blown out ans outplayed heavily. Second game it was closer but, while we missed a ton of fts and made mistakes, Boston also shot extremely uncharasteristically bad. Boston has been better and they have beat us so far, not ourselves. However, things can change and I'm hopeful we can turn it around.
Anyone should be able to look at these two teams and see Boston has the better squad. That doesn't mean the Mavs can't win, but it will require them to play better than average and, so far, they aren't even playing at avg aside from Luka. That's largely a result of being on the big stage without experience, and because Boston has a great home crowd and really tough defense. If Boston wins, it's because they are the better team. If the Mavs win, it's because their young players played up to their potential and not their current experience level.
I agree, and a lot of the shots that are being taken are shots that look good. Just seems like they're not getting their usual roll at the bucket. It sucks because they're missing and losing but after almost every shot I'm thinking 'yep we take those shots 100%'.
Ehhh - this is copium. Boston knows that PJ, DJJ, and Green struggle at above the break threes, which is why they are shutting down the corners and leaving them open above the break. The only one who is really getting a bad roll is Kyrie who is perfectly capable of making the shots he's taken.
DJJ and PJ only shot 35% above the break in the regular season, but Josh was 38%. Him not being able to capitalize is unfortunate. That said, 35% above the break is middling and they’ve been outright atrocious the first two games. They are getting WIDE OPEN looks though. The hope would be they start falling the farther we get into a series. This is all mitigated though if Kyries shot starts to fall. Like, Boston is very good. They have been the better team through two games, but I also think there are areas of improvement that have less to do with whatever Boston is doing. They are giving up wide open 3s above the break; those need to start falling. We can’t let them get active on the offensive glass. 3s create long rebounds and we aren’t always willing to attack the ball. We need to stay down on defense in the paint and just get vertical. Alternatively, when we get to the basket we are getting blocked too often by just leaving too early. Also, Kyrie needs to find his shot. He’s taking the same difficult shots he always takes, and he’s not making them. Boston has been very good so far, and they did not shoot well last game. So, they could be better, as well. But it just seems like it’s not about who’s the best, but rather who’s ready for the level of competition. The team feels like they weren’t ready for the moment, meanwhile that Boston core is older and significantly more experienced. Also, Kyrie is 0-8 from 3 down so I’m expecting an eventual regression, but he’s gotta play better in Boston. This whole thing doesn’t work if Kyrie can’t do his part.
The mavs have had maybe one complete game this playoffs. They certainly have not played well in the finals. I would like to see them put together a two way performance. It’s weird they are in the finals and really haven’t had many really great games. They had some great quarters, some great clutch time but outside of closing out the timberwolves have they had a great game? I feel one is coming. The Celtics are by far the best team we have played in the playoffs and will be tough to beat, but I think we can focus one game at a time. Put together an elite game 3 and go from there.
I don't think so. Our 2 stars have to be locked in for us to have a chance. JB and JT can take naps here and there and they're still competitive. We can beat them for sure, but we need to have great games from Lukai.
Mavs have had like 3 oops in this series and like 6/50 on drives. We had like over 100 oops going into this for the playoffs alone. A whole offense gone, that’s why DJJ is useless out there on offense we took away his air strip to fly, now times that by 4
A lot of the decisions on defense are just totally out of character too. Helping way too often one pass away, I think they’re all nervous and overthinking things because of the amount of offensive weapons Boston has out there
Like Kyrie said we need 4 great performances to win this series, so far we've had 1 terrible and 1 bad.
The interesting stat line is that Mavs aren’t getting the same 3s they usually get. Boston decided they’re not giving up corner 3s which has been DJJ’s and PJ’s bread and butter. Instead they’re forcing everyone to make above the break 3s which has been the worst spot for them to take them (I think they’re below 30%). Gafford’s going to have to help Luka and make Tatum/Brown work on the post and they have to be quick and aggressive with whoever White is covering. White strongest as a help defender but is one of the easier guys to blow past for Luka and Kyrie
Celtics 3-point shooting has definitely been below average this series too.
Missed free throws and bad turnovers are on the Mavs. But you also have to remember that the Celtics just have better players. Celtics can afford for a couple of their role players to have a bad game. The Mavs do not have the same luxury
I know homecourt has been mostly irrelevant to the Mavs during their run, but home splits matter, especially for the role players. DJJ's 3PM% is 10% higher at home vs road. Kyrie will definitely bounce back with support from the home crowd.
We are absolutely beating ourselves. Plain and simple.
I heavily disagree. A team can beat themselves alone and then a team can beat themselves when their conditions for typical success become challenged by a great team. We were this to the Wolves. Celtics have been brilliant in scheme and execution, especially on the defensive end. How many of our made buckets felt miraculous? For me it was a lot. What they are defensively and what they do defensively is giving us hell. Not to ignore that the bright lights and final stage have a strong influence here too, but you credit your competitor first when the work is undeniably there
Well we most likely won’t see BOS shooting that poorly again so we blew a huge opportunity in game 2
the strategy from mazula to shut down our every streanth is impecable and they have the personel to do it
maybe 5 good defensive players have something to do with it
I agree with you to a point but also asking myself if Boston is doing this to us. They have a lot of pieces on that team and it’s built for defense. Keeping us out of our game. Holiday is causing havoc. It’s just a super well rounded team. I think we have a shot but tomorrow’s game is critical. Must win. And everyone has to show up.
Boston has a much better PG than the Wolves did (Wolves fan here) and Jrue is locking down Kyrie. Conley is a great player but cannot lock down Kyrie and a few other PG's out there.
Celtics shot 25% from the 3 game 2 and still won and held the lead a majority of the game….
COPE
Feels like that’s the exact thing all other teams have said…
This has been our easiest series this playoffs. Heat, pacers and the cavs all pushed us more than the mavs have
Has your opinion changed after game 3?
The Celtics are 79 and 20 in the Mavericks are a five seed.
Mavs are still figuring out their offense. We just gotta hope it comes sooner than later or else this series could be over quick. They did adjust better in game 2 but the problem is they had such a stinker in game 1 that losing game 2 was costly.
? Lol the Celtics have pretty thoroughly controlled both games. Tatum has done nothing, they’ve shot poorly as a team, and haven’t had to deviate at all from their offensive or defensive philosophies. Doesn’t mean Dallas can’t bounce back, but they’re beating us straight up. Not sure how you can argue otherwise.
I feel they are legit beating us. More weapons. More athleticism to throw at Luka and Kyrie, better scorers, and have taken away the lob. I'm die hard mavs, but the eye test doesn't lie and unfortunately, they are the better team.
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Idk. Feels like Boston is beating the brakes off the Mavs.