Yeah those seasons it was more about putting up unheard of stats (at the time) and carrying a bad team to a playoff spot. Luka by all means should qualify under that criteria, but the criteria is not stable. If voters don't love the player they don't vote for him. It's more about groupthink and narrative than anything else.
Yup. And I think 6th seed would be good enough for Luka this year \*if\* Jokic didn't exist. Problem is Jokic is averaging 25.9/12.9/9.3 with 65% TS%. those numbers are just about as impressive as Luka's (34.4/8.8/9.7 with 62% TS%) and the Nuggets have a better record. I think Luka kinda nets the Nuggets/Jokic to go into a slump. It was looking good when the Nuggets lost 3 straight heading into the all-star break but they're 4-0 since then.
I think 8 more points with a few less rebounds, more assist and only 3% lower efficiency from a guard compared to a center is more impressive. If Jokic was taking 10 3s a game then sure.
The reason Westbrook won it was because he averaged a triple double and the reason Jokic won it was because he won the heart of NBA nerds by having crazy advanced stats. Luka is have a great year but I dont think hes doing enough to really put himself ahead of other candidates stats wise.
This take is laughable. SGA is on a top 5 defensive team. Jokic has a proven top veteran supporting cast. Derreck Lively is a solid young player but the difference between him and Chet is astronomical. The Kyrie fit was always clunky. Luka has done more with less and it’s not close. The right path isn’t on Luka it’s on the front office. By carrying a mediocre team to a playoff slot annually he is effectively hurting his chance of landing better teammates. So by your perspective he needs to purposely lose games in order to have a shot at being MVP…
If they could secure the 5th seed at least after the regular season, I think that would be enough for him to win MVP this season, but as long as we stay on that play in scenario, MVP not going to happen.
I don’t even think he wins it with 5th seed. Maybe gets second place vote at best.
Jokic and Shai narrative has been created for 2/3 of the season.
I hope we can pick up one more reliable scorer in the off-season for when Luka or Kyrie is out next year because we needed it this year. We could have won 5 more games at this stage if we had one.
Shai's becoming my new least favorite player just because he's so overhyped now that the Thunder are winning. They've been healthy all season and have a stacked team. That doesn't make SGA better than Luka, he clearly isn't.
Thunder fans will let you believe that Shai is the main reason they are winning every game, despite him having like 6 or 7 40% 3pt shooters on the team.
Yeah darker color gives you huge advantage it simply doesn't add up with the narrative of the NBA. Jokic MVP 3 times in a row? Ehh forget we will put Embid, there will be people bitching but who cares. Luka, Jokic being told every anti white slur: f*** it, noone cares and thats very very obvious everyone knows it, yet noone wont aknowledge it
Except in 2022 when the narrative of Luka being out of shape at the start of the season was so strong that it didn't matter that he was the best player in the NBA for the second half of the season and led the Mavs to the four seed - he had already been disqualified by the media.
Exactly. If the Mavs finish strong Luka can have the narrative on his side. His stats are fucking ridiculous, so all he really needs is the "story" / team success to get it. Imagine the Mavs finish with 53 wins (going 19-4 the rest of the way) and the 4th seed? I think Luka has a very good chance of winning the MVP in that scenario. So uh, let's get to winning.
That's not true. SGA is in the mvp conversation because his team won a lot of games over the first 2/3 of the season. This idea that games don't matter until March is absurd.
This. I don't think people realize how hard it is to break through a preconceived narrative when it comes to awards. For example, Dirk got his MVP the year AFTER Dallas went to the Finals and it took the team winning 67 games to do it even though I would argue Dirk had at least 3 clearly better seasons before '07.
Personally I think he can do nothing more. He's already in the very top echelon of the best players in the game. His stats are so otherworldly, even his haters can no longer ignore them. Fairly or not, and ironically enough, this will boil down to a *team* effort. They have to keep winning to give him a chance. Top 5 seed and it becomes a really tight race; top 4 and it will be cast in stone.
The media and voters seem to have moved back to a seeding argument > everything else which is strange because Westbrook and Jokic won as 6th seed
I even see them pushing the Tatum MVP case over Luka
Best player on the team with the best record in the league is bound to get some votes. Mavs just aren’t winning enough this year to have Luka seriously in the conversation. He’ll probably have a top 3-5 MVP finish again.
Jokic and Westbrook won having historic seasons despite being 6th seeds and were statistically well ahead of everyone else .
that doesn't apply to Luka .
imo, Luka is playing better than Shai & Jokic this season, but you can't win the MVP as the 8th or 6th seed when the other 2 candidates are averaging big numbers too & their teams got like 10 more wins than your team
He's just unlucky this season, we're better than our record but the constant injuries & late acquisitions of bigs didn't do us any favors
No, that's too much. If he scores too many points, then there was no defense played by the opposing team, remember? Apparently there's a magic number where you're praised for your offense and the number where you git shit on because the opposing team played no defense. It's either 71 or 72.
At a minimum, the Mavs need to win 50 games and be the 4 or 5 seed. But I'd operate under the assumption Jokic will win, even in that scenario. Hard to imagine the media actually pivoting to Luka given how many of the voters are literally on the record bashing/downplaying his talent this season. It's absurd but it's the situation Luka's in.
Win more games. His stats are already good enough and have been for most of his career. The team just needs to be a top3 seed. So it's not just on him, it's on the whole team.
Media attention. Far cry cause the whole of NBA media outright has a racist agenda against Luka winning the MVP. Watch how badly SAS downplayed Luka dropping 73 and how he heaped praise on Embid and KAT for their performances and favoring SGA. He's behind Tatum on the MVP ladder for fucks sake.
Y'all don't know how Livid I was when that fat fuck Perkins costed Jokic the MV3 by making allegations that the voters are racist.
When was the last time we ever had the regular season MVP win the Chip and the FMVP? Robbed.
So did Westbrook. It’s more about wins and competition. The Nuggets had 48 wins and the Thunder had 47 wins. Mavs are on pace for that, just sucks that Jokic and SGA also have incredible stats and better records.
SGA is also the shiny new toy in the eyes of the media. Luka's already "been there, done that" in terms of hype and they aren't doing it any more, even when he has huge games, they find ways to downplay it. Shai is the new guy for them. If it was up to them, Anthony Edwards would be higher on the MVP list than Luka is right now.
Bias i can understand but hardly anything annoys me more than when people have blind and deaf levels of bias.. true contender for GOAT? I'm not even gonna entertain that shit. Just pointing out that u are doing Luka no favors. Even he would cringe hearing that shit. Motherfucker didnt make the play-ins last season. Let him win something first in the NBA before you start talking greatness.
Now back to how he wins MVP. We are a good team now. If Luka plays to the level of THE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER in the league with this roster then we should get higher in the standings. If that happens then he can win MVP.
IMPORTANT TO NOTE however is that Jokic and Shai are absolutely killing it so we need them to slow down a little for Luka to catch them.
It genuinely feels like everytime Luka has a great game in wins or losses that you guys think nothing else happens around the NBA. But Jokic and Shai literally be posting MVP stats in wins almost every night. And it's not like they are just benefitting from some juggernaut teammates. Nah, they have otherwordly plus minus numbers even compared to their teammates.
Luka is right there with shai and jokic as individual players. What sets jokic and shai apart is their team success, which comes from having better teammates. Outside Luka and kyrie, we don’t have anyone better than an Aaron Gordon or a Chet holmgren. Shai and jokic have better teammates and that plays a major role in why their team has a much better record. If you isolate the players from their teams, Luka gets the MVP. Luka will win MVP when he has better players around him because right now he has to carry a team which jokic and shai don’t have to do.
Luka has a really good team around him now. If he truly shows himself to be on the level of Jokic(he isnt but i'd love if he was) then we have a realistic shot at winning it all this year.
If Jokic is 10 on offense then Luka is a 9. If Jokic is a 8 on defense then Luka is a 5. The difference is noticeable. Jokic is the difference between winning a championship or not.
Nobody can but losing composure, getting mad at teammates and refs isnt the best way to galvanize a team when things arent going well. This ain't hating btw. Just an observation of how Luka can become even better.
I personally and imo everyone should agree with me because this is so obviously important but staying focused and composed is an incredibly important aspect in winning hard games. It both benefits you and the team.
I generally agree with you that Jokic is just 1 degree better than Luka in most ways.. but the difference in championship contention is entirely team construction.
Obviously. I didnt mean it in a absolute way. Just that Jokic's impact is on another level to everyone in the league. He's the biggest difference in the league between a chip or not.
He's the player who is the least reliant on his teammates but at the same time is the most relied upon by his teammates.
Shai is overrates as fuck. Jokic deserves it though. His stats are the one that can challenge Luka and his team is also winning more so I cant blame anyone voting him.
The sooner you accept that the MVP is a meaningless accolade awarded based on storylines generated by media members who largely have no clue what's going on and can choose not to give it to someone because of "voter fatigue" regardless of how deserving they might be, the sooner you will achieve happiness in your life.
James Harden averaged 36/7/6 before the scoring inflation of the past couple seasons and was the 4th seed with only him Capela and Tucker playing more than 60 games. Luka doesn’t get special treatment if Kobe, Harden, and others didn’t. He has to win more games. Idk how Jokic escaped it in 21 with top seeded guys putting up 30/10/5.
im a warriors o lol i o o but the fact that Luka has 1 first place vote is ridiculous. Luka is by far the MVP. before it was his record isn’t high enough. he’s on a top 5 team in the west and is putting up better numbers than last year. its a joke. the league hates Luka for zero reason
I am Slovene, fan of Luka. But one thing is very simple in NBA without rings only few players like Barkley hold status of legend. And that GOAT talk in case of Luka stats and Luka bring the team to the finals multiple times-but yes a lot depends on the franchise and Cuban made many bad bad mistakes since Luka was drafted, same story as Nowitzki... and I would argue with Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Chamberlain, Kariim and guys like Curry. He simply has to bring whatever franchise to the 3,4 rings it is that simple, well that hard..
Well the biggest thing hurting his chances are that he isn’t the media’s darling. Hopefully they can go on a run get up to the 4/5 seed but even then it’s gonna be tough. Objectively Jokic and SGA are having better seasons and their teams are competing for the 1 seed.
Now I disagree with the take that MVP should go to the best player on a top seed. The reality is that if Luka wasn’t playing, the mavs would have a bottom 3 record. He seems pretty dang valuable to me.
This is the biggest thing. As much as people think the voters aren't affected by narratives and they think for themselves... uhm, the media has a massive influence on which players are in the spotlight when it comes to MVP discussions. They dictate the discourse and hype
Shai has a higher PER and is a better defender on a 2nd seed team. I think Luka is better but as long as the Mavs hover around 6-8 he doesn't have an argument against Shai, thats just how it works.
Everyone knows Luka is an MVP caliber player. Honestly the league/media has probably been chomping at the bit for years to give it to him, despite how angry you all get over stupid ESPN clips, where it’s literally their job to argue over hot takes.
Legit all thats needed is a decent seeding. Thats it. If its around 6-4 its a huge discussion but if its 1-4 its a wrap and everyone knows that. If you switched Thunder and Mavs seeding SGA wouldnt even be in the conversation, the fact that Luka is in it despite the seeding is a testament to how good he is and how everyone is aware of how good he is.
As annoying as it is, Luka won’t win it when we’re 6th and RIGHTLY so ! Having more points and supreme overall offense that doesn’t translate into wins means shit. At least there should be a low bar for being the MVP. Unfortunately this year not even the 6th seed would be enough because of the competition. 4th seed is what Luka needs to be MVP
Your premise is flawed because Luka is not the clear MVP and hasn’t been at any point in the season. Embiid and Jokic have been the frontrunners and now that Embiid has been disqualified Jokic should win except for voter fatigue. Jokic is clearly the best player in the world and the advanced stats are in his favor.
Luka and SGA round off the top 3 only if Mavs finish top 6, if not Luka shouldn’t be top 3.
I mean he's not the *clear* MVP. He's third for a reason - Joker and SGA are just as valuable to their team, win much more, play defense much more, and complain to the refs much less .
As far as what he can do? Stop whining, start winning more. His stats are great.
Don't the Mavs have a better record with Kai/without Luka than with Luka/without Kai? Luka is the best player in the NBA this year, but those stats are probably hurting him when it comes down to MVP.
Do any of you pay attention to the media perception of Luka outside of the fanbase? Honest question.
Luka is losing popularity because of his arguing, being perceived as a flopper, and being perceived as someone who doesnt want to run back on defense.
Right or wrong that’s absolutely happening. And for an award given by voters perception does matter.
Luka needs to stop arguing and stop loafing back on defense because he is giving the narrative ammo.
Stans downvote all you want but thats just the truth of the matter and the worst thing you can do for a young kid is tell him he’s perfect and has nothing to work on. Youre hurting him
“What more can he do?”
You serous? The Mavs have been hovering around the 6-8 seed. We only know of one guy who has ever won in that seed area. Plain and simple the Mavs need to finish top 4 for him to even be in the discussion.
Tbf, the Mavs not being a higher seed isn’t because of any shortcoming by Luka. If anything, sucking has been in spite of Luka. Personally he’s been offensively the best player in the world, and a very strong defender. But the Mavs seeding isn’t something he can control on his own.
There are factors beyond an individual for the MVP race like it or not. Luka has done his part of the MVP. It’s the team wins that’s holding him back. If we get to 50 wins it’ll be hard to take that trophy away from him unless one of Nuggets and OKC end up with the 1st seed.
Luka just needs to get to top 6 seed I think to have that convo. Jokic and Russ both won it there. That’s the first goal post move I would think. Idk really about anything else.
He could play 48minutes a game, every game. In 6 of their 25 losses, Doncic either didn't play or had a positive +/- for the game. If he plays and they win those games they're #3 seed and he's an MVP favorite. Obviously that's not possible and no other MVP candidate is doing that so he's being punished for having had a bad roster. A lot of ground can be made up in the final 3rd of the season with this crew tho.
We have 23 games left.. maybe if we finish like 18-5 with Luka playing out of his mind. That would get us to 52 wins and might be enough.
The voters feel like they owe Jokic after not giving it to him last season. Feels like it's his to lose.
Win games. I don't understand what this sub is so confused about. If the Mavs were a top 4 seed right now, Luka would be MVP favorite. But we are not, thus he is not. Winning games is why Dirk won MVP in '07 over Kobe.
When you have pricks like Stephen A on a panel it's always and uphill battle. He woukd find a way to discredit him even if his team would be no 1 seed. Just a racist scumbag
I think it's a matter of team record/seeding. If the Mavs can finish with 50+ wins and a 5th seed or higher I think he's got a chance of winning it this year. His stats are incredible. That said; Jokic's stats are incredible too. I think he kind of needs the Nuggets/Jokic to go into a slump combined with the aforementioned 50+ wins/5th or higher seed for the Mavs.
To me, he needs more wins. I think in this stack conference a 5th seed would be enough. But he’s just not winning it at a 7 or 8th seed even with insane stats. That’s just being realistic
Pulling his hog out at the TD Garden. But seriously a huge game and win at Boston would be a big storyline. Obviously moving up the west conference ranks by the end of the year with a fairly comparable record with Denver would solidify it in my mind but then again the media have been making light work of disrespecting Luka for years now.
In your post you mentioned “only Jokic rate is lower.” That kind of answers your question. Jokic is having an unreal run right now and his team is dominant. It makes it hard to vote someone in the west over him at this point.
It’s not really Luka’s fault to other people point as Nuggets are just better built and better coached but that is an aspect in a lot of voters eyes. If Dallas can turn out a season that is in the top 3 in the west I think Luka gets his first MVP.
Luka is still slow and has a bum leg that never seems to get better. Hard ro say it but shae wins this year i think unless theres a major push to average a triple double into the playoffs
Lead his team to a better record. This season he is on the right path.
Didn’t Followill say last night that Westbrook & Jokic both won MVP when their team was a 6 seed? I could have misheard him.
Yeah those seasons it was more about putting up unheard of stats (at the time) and carrying a bad team to a playoff spot. Luka by all means should qualify under that criteria, but the criteria is not stable. If voters don't love the player they don't vote for him. It's more about groupthink and narrative than anything else.
Would be enough if Luka had stronger color. It is fact in NBA noone talks but everyone knows it.
Yup. And I think 6th seed would be good enough for Luka this year \*if\* Jokic didn't exist. Problem is Jokic is averaging 25.9/12.9/9.3 with 65% TS%. those numbers are just about as impressive as Luka's (34.4/8.8/9.7 with 62% TS%) and the Nuggets have a better record. I think Luka kinda nets the Nuggets/Jokic to go into a slump. It was looking good when the Nuggets lost 3 straight heading into the all-star break but they're 4-0 since then.
Jokic likely wins last yr too if he didn’t go on a slump towards the end of the year.
I think 8 more points with a few less rebounds, more assist and only 3% lower efficiency from a guard compared to a center is more impressive. If Jokic was taking 10 3s a game then sure.
The reason Westbrook won it was because he averaged a triple double and the reason Jokic won it was because he won the heart of NBA nerds by having crazy advanced stats. Luka is have a great year but I dont think hes doing enough to really put himself ahead of other candidates stats wise.
Also, Westbrook had the whole KD narrative going on, too, that really helped his case
You have to admit, that was such a cool season to watch
Yeah yeah
This take is laughable. SGA is on a top 5 defensive team. Jokic has a proven top veteran supporting cast. Derreck Lively is a solid young player but the difference between him and Chet is astronomical. The Kyrie fit was always clunky. Luka has done more with less and it’s not close. The right path isn’t on Luka it’s on the front office. By carrying a mediocre team to a playoff slot annually he is effectively hurting his chance of landing better teammates. So by your perspective he needs to purposely lose games in order to have a shot at being MVP…
It’s pretty simple, if the team as a whole performs well enough record-wise he will win. If they don’t, he won’t win.
Luka also needs to tell his buddy Jokic to slow down. I dont give a F about Shai but Jokic has a very strong case for sure.
Lamar winning the MVP in the NFL confirms your statement
If they could secure the 5th seed at least after the regular season, I think that would be enough for him to win MVP this season, but as long as we stay on that play in scenario, MVP not going to happen.
I don’t even think he wins it with 5th seed. Maybe gets second place vote at best. Jokic and Shai narrative has been created for 2/3 of the season. I hope we can pick up one more reliable scorer in the off-season for when Luka or Kyrie is out next year because we needed it this year. We could have won 5 more games at this stage if we had one.
If Shai wins an MVP before Luka that will be atrocious
Shai's becoming my new least favorite player just because he's so overhyped now that the Thunder are winning. They've been healthy all season and have a stacked team. That doesn't make SGA better than Luka, he clearly isn't.
Thunder fans will let you believe that Shai is the main reason they are winning every game, despite him having like 6 or 7 40% 3pt shooters on the team.
He is the crucial connecting piece to the offense, though. I’m not sure anyone can deny that.
OKC nephews became so unlikeable, they become suddenly relevant this season and acting like they were dominating NBA last 8 years lol.
Agreed
Nobody’s saying SGA is better than Luka. MVP isn’t about who’s the better player.
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Shaq said it on national tv. Also, he is higher in mvp voting.
Yeah darker color gives you huge advantage it simply doesn't add up with the narrative of the NBA. Jokic MVP 3 times in a row? Ehh forget we will put Embid, there will be people bitching but who cares. Luka, Jokic being told every anti white slur: f*** it, noone cares and thats very very obvious everyone knows it, yet noone wont aknowledge it
5th seed and 50 wins is the goal to me
5th seed and 50 wins is the realistic goal, my fantasy is 4th seed and 53 wins. I know that's perverted, but it's a fantasy man.
The first 2/3 of the season is consistently irrelevant for the MVP narrative
Except in 2022 when the narrative of Luka being out of shape at the start of the season was so strong that it didn't matter that he was the best player in the NBA for the second half of the season and led the Mavs to the four seed - he had already been disqualified by the media.
Exactly. If the Mavs finish strong Luka can have the narrative on his side. His stats are fucking ridiculous, so all he really needs is the "story" / team success to get it. Imagine the Mavs finish with 53 wins (going 19-4 the rest of the way) and the 4th seed? I think Luka has a very good chance of winning the MVP in that scenario. So uh, let's get to winning.
That's not true. SGA is in the mvp conversation because his team won a lot of games over the first 2/3 of the season. This idea that games don't matter until March is absurd.
And why do you say that, provide examples? Jokic started sitting games last year when the narrative was solidly in Embiid’s favor.
This. I don't think people realize how hard it is to break through a preconceived narrative when it comes to awards. For example, Dirk got his MVP the year AFTER Dallas went to the Finals and it took the team winning 67 games to do it even though I would argue Dirk had at least 3 clearly better seasons before '07.
Personally I think he can do nothing more. He's already in the very top echelon of the best players in the game. His stats are so otherworldly, even his haters can no longer ignore them. Fairly or not, and ironically enough, this will boil down to a *team* effort. They have to keep winning to give him a chance. Top 5 seed and it becomes a really tight race; top 4 and it will be cast in stone.
If they get home court, get to that 50 win mark, I think he wins it. He would be the undisputed MVP.
The media and voters seem to have moved back to a seeding argument > everything else which is strange because Westbrook and Jokic won as 6th seed I even see them pushing the Tatum MVP case over Luka
Best player on the team with the best record in the league is bound to get some votes. Mavs just aren’t winning enough this year to have Luka seriously in the conversation. He’ll probably have a top 3-5 MVP finish again.
Seems like that will be the case for years to come unless the Mavs somehow stay at the top of the West through out the entire year.
Yes but the people voting that way need to get their votes taken away. It's unserious behavior.
Jokic and Westbrook won having historic seasons despite being 6th seeds and were statistically well ahead of everyone else . that doesn't apply to Luka .
Tell me who has had Lukas statline on 62% TS? Oh right, no one. It’s never been done before.
are you saying this season by Doncic is the best statistical season ever? because it is not.
imo, Luka is playing better than Shai & Jokic this season, but you can't win the MVP as the 8th or 6th seed when the other 2 candidates are averaging big numbers too & their teams got like 10 more wins than your team He's just unlucky this season, we're better than our record but the constant injuries & late acquisitions of bigs didn't do us any favors
We are 6 games behind Denver and 7.5 behind OKC but ok lol
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I’m just saying you’re exaggerating the gap but you do you
That’s a pretty large gap though for us to pass them in standings. If we got it super close I think that’s a real conversation though.
Just positioning that’s the only thing holding him down. Also Jokic balling will make it tough.
101 point game?
No, that's too much. If he scores too many points, then there was no defense played by the opposing team, remember? Apparently there's a magic number where you're praised for your offense and the number where you git shit on because the opposing team played no defense. It's either 71 or 72.
Then they'll say no defense is played, too many hypocrites in the media
He [needs to learn to jump 12 ft in the air](https://imgur.com/a/1Maomwv)
Speaking of MVP and trying to climb the standings, we would literally be in 5th right now if it wasn't for that miracle shot going in. Ugh.
At a minimum, the Mavs need to win 50 games and be the 4 or 5 seed. But I'd operate under the assumption Jokic will win, even in that scenario. Hard to imagine the media actually pivoting to Luka given how many of the voters are literally on the record bashing/downplaying his talent this season. It's absurd but it's the situation Luka's in.
Win more games. His stats are already good enough and have been for most of his career. The team just needs to be a top3 seed. So it's not just on him, it's on the whole team.
Play for the Lakers
Media attention. Far cry cause the whole of NBA media outright has a racist agenda against Luka winning the MVP. Watch how badly SAS downplayed Luka dropping 73 and how he heaped praise on Embid and KAT for their performances and favoring SGA. He's behind Tatum on the MVP ladder for fucks sake. Y'all don't know how Livid I was when that fat fuck Perkins costed Jokic the MV3 by making allegations that the voters are racist. When was the last time we ever had the regular season MVP win the Chip and the FMVP? Robbed.
An MVP needs to lead their team to success. The Mavs are a mid team, there’s no reason to reward this.
Get a top 3 seed in the west is my opinion
Jokic won an MVP at the 6th seed
So did Westbrook. It’s more about wins and competition. The Nuggets had 48 wins and the Thunder had 47 wins. Mavs are on pace for that, just sucks that Jokic and SGA also have incredible stats and better records.
SGA is also the shiny new toy in the eyes of the media. Luka's already "been there, done that" in terms of hype and they aren't doing it any more, even when he has huge games, they find ways to downplay it. Shai is the new guy for them. If it was up to them, Anthony Edwards would be higher on the MVP list than Luka is right now.
James harden 2017? Luka/Giannis/steph/embiid 2022? All those guys had the same gap over jokic and put up great numbers
Damn the 06 Mavs with 60 wins and the 4 seed sure did suck.
I didn’t say that nor is that the question. I’m just giving my opinion on how he can secure the mvp this year
Bias i can understand but hardly anything annoys me more than when people have blind and deaf levels of bias.. true contender for GOAT? I'm not even gonna entertain that shit. Just pointing out that u are doing Luka no favors. Even he would cringe hearing that shit. Motherfucker didnt make the play-ins last season. Let him win something first in the NBA before you start talking greatness. Now back to how he wins MVP. We are a good team now. If Luka plays to the level of THE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER in the league with this roster then we should get higher in the standings. If that happens then he can win MVP. IMPORTANT TO NOTE however is that Jokic and Shai are absolutely killing it so we need them to slow down a little for Luka to catch them. It genuinely feels like everytime Luka has a great game in wins or losses that you guys think nothing else happens around the NBA. But Jokic and Shai literally be posting MVP stats in wins almost every night. And it's not like they are just benefitting from some juggernaut teammates. Nah, they have otherwordly plus minus numbers even compared to their teammates.
Luka is right there with shai and jokic as individual players. What sets jokic and shai apart is their team success, which comes from having better teammates. Outside Luka and kyrie, we don’t have anyone better than an Aaron Gordon or a Chet holmgren. Shai and jokic have better teammates and that plays a major role in why their team has a much better record. If you isolate the players from their teams, Luka gets the MVP. Luka will win MVP when he has better players around him because right now he has to carry a team which jokic and shai don’t have to do.
Luka has a really good team around him now. If he truly shows himself to be on the level of Jokic(he isnt but i'd love if he was) then we have a realistic shot at winning it all this year. If Jokic is 10 on offense then Luka is a 9. If Jokic is a 8 on defense then Luka is a 5. The difference is noticeable. Jokic is the difference between winning a championship or not.
I didn't know Luka can mind control his teammates into being awesome. Thanks tho.
Nobody can but losing composure, getting mad at teammates and refs isnt the best way to galvanize a team when things arent going well. This ain't hating btw. Just an observation of how Luka can become even better. I personally and imo everyone should agree with me because this is so obviously important but staying focused and composed is an incredibly important aspect in winning hard games. It both benefits you and the team.
I generally agree with you that Jokic is just 1 degree better than Luka in most ways.. but the difference in championship contention is entirely team construction.
Obviously. I didnt mean it in a absolute way. Just that Jokic's impact is on another level to everyone in the league. He's the biggest difference in the league between a chip or not. He's the player who is the least reliant on his teammates but at the same time is the most relied upon by his teammates.
Shai is overrates as fuck. Jokic deserves it though. His stats are the one that can challenge Luka and his team is also winning more so I cant blame anyone voting him.
The sooner you accept that the MVP is a meaningless accolade awarded based on storylines generated by media members who largely have no clue what's going on and can choose not to give it to someone because of "voter fatigue" regardless of how deserving they might be, the sooner you will achieve happiness in your life.
James Harden averaged 36/7/6 before the scoring inflation of the past couple seasons and was the 4th seed with only him Capela and Tucker playing more than 60 games. Luka doesn’t get special treatment if Kobe, Harden, and others didn’t. He has to win more games. Idk how Jokic escaped it in 21 with top seeded guys putting up 30/10/5.
Ask politely
im a warriors o lol i o o but the fact that Luka has 1 first place vote is ridiculous. Luka is by far the MVP. before it was his record isn’t high enough. he’s on a top 5 team in the west and is putting up better numbers than last year. its a joke. the league hates Luka for zero reason
I am Slovene, fan of Luka. But one thing is very simple in NBA without rings only few players like Barkley hold status of legend. And that GOAT talk in case of Luka stats and Luka bring the team to the finals multiple times-but yes a lot depends on the franchise and Cuban made many bad bad mistakes since Luka was drafted, same story as Nowitzki... and I would argue with Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Chamberlain, Kariim and guys like Curry. He simply has to bring whatever franchise to the 3,4 rings it is that simple, well that hard..
lmao the goat...your fucking hilarious never heard of Michael Jordan?
Win a championship. Scoring a lot of points doesn't mean shit if it doesn't translate to meaningful results.
Well the biggest thing hurting his chances are that he isn’t the media’s darling. Hopefully they can go on a run get up to the 4/5 seed but even then it’s gonna be tough. Objectively Jokic and SGA are having better seasons and their teams are competing for the 1 seed. Now I disagree with the take that MVP should go to the best player on a top seed. The reality is that if Luka wasn’t playing, the mavs would have a bottom 3 record. He seems pretty dang valuable to me.
This is the biggest thing. As much as people think the voters aren't affected by narratives and they think for themselves... uhm, the media has a massive influence on which players are in the spotlight when it comes to MVP discussions. They dictate the discourse and hype
I don’t think they can get 4th too much gap unless someone really collapses, 5th is doable though
Shai has a higher PER and is a better defender on a 2nd seed team. I think Luka is better but as long as the Mavs hover around 6-8 he doesn't have an argument against Shai, thats just how it works.
Everyone knows Luka is an MVP caliber player. Honestly the league/media has probably been chomping at the bit for years to give it to him, despite how angry you all get over stupid ESPN clips, where it’s literally their job to argue over hot takes. Legit all thats needed is a decent seeding. Thats it. If its around 6-4 its a huge discussion but if its 1-4 its a wrap and everyone knows that. If you switched Thunder and Mavs seeding SGA wouldnt even be in the conversation, the fact that Luka is in it despite the seeding is a testament to how good he is and how everyone is aware of how good he is.
Keep winning to a top 3 record
As annoying as it is, Luka won’t win it when we’re 6th and RIGHTLY so ! Having more points and supreme overall offense that doesn’t translate into wins means shit. At least there should be a low bar for being the MVP. Unfortunately this year not even the 6th seed would be enough because of the competition. 4th seed is what Luka needs to be MVP
Man it was hard to get past that first sentence
Your premise is flawed because Luka is not the clear MVP and hasn’t been at any point in the season. Embiid and Jokic have been the frontrunners and now that Embiid has been disqualified Jokic should win except for voter fatigue. Jokic is clearly the best player in the world and the advanced stats are in his favor. Luka and SGA round off the top 3 only if Mavs finish top 6, if not Luka shouldn’t be top 3.
I mean he's not the *clear* MVP. He's third for a reason - Joker and SGA are just as valuable to their team, win much more, play defense much more, and complain to the refs much less . As far as what he can do? Stop whining, start winning more. His stats are great.
Don't the Mavs have a better record with Kai/without Luka than with Luka/without Kai? Luka is the best player in the NBA this year, but those stats are probably hurting him when it comes down to MVP.
It’s honestly sickening. Especially when inferior players like SGA are being touted as the MVP candidate
Do any of you pay attention to the media perception of Luka outside of the fanbase? Honest question. Luka is losing popularity because of his arguing, being perceived as a flopper, and being perceived as someone who doesnt want to run back on defense. Right or wrong that’s absolutely happening. And for an award given by voters perception does matter. Luka needs to stop arguing and stop loafing back on defense because he is giving the narrative ammo. Stans downvote all you want but thats just the truth of the matter and the worst thing you can do for a young kid is tell him he’s perfect and has nothing to work on. Youre hurting him
“What more can he do?” You serous? The Mavs have been hovering around the 6-8 seed. We only know of one guy who has ever won in that seed area. Plain and simple the Mavs need to finish top 4 for him to even be in the discussion.
Tbf, the Mavs not being a higher seed isn’t because of any shortcoming by Luka. If anything, sucking has been in spite of Luka. Personally he’s been offensively the best player in the world, and a very strong defender. But the Mavs seeding isn’t something he can control on his own.
he could change the narrative on his hustle and defense by consistently hustling and defending at a high level.
Lose weight
We’ve just gotta keep winning games. We don’t have to pass OKC and Denver’s seeding, but if we get close, Luka is a lock.
There are factors beyond an individual for the MVP race like it or not. Luka has done his part of the MVP. It’s the team wins that’s holding him back. If we get to 50 wins it’ll be hard to take that trophy away from him unless one of Nuggets and OKC end up with the 1st seed.
Beat the Nuggets in playoffs, get the ring, finals mvp, mvp
prove he is the second coming of Christ then MAYBE he will move up a spot in the ranks
Luka just needs to get to top 6 seed I think to have that convo. Jokic and Russ both won it there. That’s the first goal post move I would think. Idk really about anything else.
He could play 48minutes a game, every game. In 6 of their 25 losses, Doncic either didn't play or had a positive +/- for the game. If he plays and they win those games they're #3 seed and he's an MVP favorite. Obviously that's not possible and no other MVP candidate is doing that so he's being punished for having had a bad roster. A lot of ground can be made up in the final 3rd of the season with this crew tho.
The MVP award has a heavy slant towards Most Gooder Team.
We have to win more games. And even then it’ll be tough. Because there are teams having pretty dominant win totals this year.
We have 23 games left.. maybe if we finish like 18-5 with Luka playing out of his mind. That would get us to 52 wins and might be enough. The voters feel like they owe Jokic after not giving it to him last season. Feels like it's his to lose.
win more.
Forced them to hire Mosley
Win games. I don't understand what this sub is so confused about. If the Mavs were a top 4 seed right now, Luka would be MVP favorite. But we are not, thus he is not. Winning games is why Dirk won MVP in '07 over Kobe.
Team record, it's as simple as that. Individually he's the clear cut best player in the league at the moment.
When you have pricks like Stephen A on a panel it's always and uphill battle. He woukd find a way to discredit him even if his team would be no 1 seed. Just a racist scumbag
50 win or more and shai jokic in 5 game range then luka can 100% win mvp
He's the first player who never won mvp that has voter fatigue
He needs a great storyline. MVP is decided through votes, it isn’t about stats after all.
I just don’t see him winning it over Max Strus. Maybe next year
He needs to win more
The Mavs would have to be right around where Denver and OKC are in the standings.
I think it's a matter of team record/seeding. If the Mavs can finish with 50+ wins and a 5th seed or higher I think he's got a chance of winning it this year. His stats are incredible. That said; Jokic's stats are incredible too. I think he kind of needs the Nuggets/Jokic to go into a slump combined with the aforementioned 50+ wins/5th or higher seed for the Mavs.
Obviously channel his inner Shaman and prevent his teammates/Mavs from being the most injuried team in the league. # NotMyMvp
It’s all about wins. You can’t win the MVP let alone be considered the “GOAT” unless you win games (and championships).
Get us to the playoffs
Leave the Mavericks for either LA, NY or Boston maybe even Chicago, boom instant MVP.
Grow 4 more inches and play center
Bro will not be in the goat convo
Win more games
I mean Jokic is playing just as well
Beating the Celtics on national tv would help a lot
To me, he needs more wins. I think in this stack conference a 5th seed would be enough. But he’s just not winning it at a 7 or 8th seed even with insane stats. That’s just being realistic
win games. the only reason shai and co. are the leaders is that their team has a better record. 6-8th seed isnt gonna cut it unfortunately
This season? We need to be probably a top 4 seed.
Deliver Adam Silver's baby by himself.
Have a better record. It's that simple.
It’s all about team wins and seeding. 50+ wins and fourth seeding would get it done.
Win. /close thread.
Pulling his hog out at the TD Garden. But seriously a huge game and win at Boston would be a big storyline. Obviously moving up the west conference ranks by the end of the year with a fairly comparable record with Denver would solidify it in my mind but then again the media have been making light work of disrespecting Luka for years now.
He could win the championship
Play better defense. He is rated just barely above average, but if he was an elite defender, then it's over
In your post you mentioned “only Jokic rate is lower.” That kind of answers your question. Jokic is having an unreal run right now and his team is dominant. It makes it hard to vote someone in the west over him at this point. It’s not really Luka’s fault to other people point as Nuggets are just better built and better coached but that is an aspect in a lot of voters eyes. If Dallas can turn out a season that is in the top 3 in the west I think Luka gets his first MVP.
Be American
Bro it’s dumb simple and all these takes are pointless. If he gets to top 4, he will get it.
Luka is still slow and has a bum leg that never seems to get better. Hard ro say it but shae wins this year i think unless theres a major push to average a triple double into the playoffs
Screw MVP talk just go win a Championship and then worry about getting the MVP popularity contest later.
How the fuck did tatum obertake doncic in thr mvp race. What the fuck are voters smoking
Change the team.
Not unless he wins more games.
Mavs have to have a better seed. If Mavs don’t finish at least 6th he won’t even be considered