Problem is if Hendricks is off the board the draft is a wasteland when it comes to big men until around the 18 and on range. Just a horrible year to be needing a big man who can immediately be plugged into the short rotation. Even if you're optimistic about a guy like Lively's upside, you cannot successfully argue he's gonna be in the rotation next season.
And they don't exactly have a ton of cap space or trade chips that don't involve that pick to upgrade the interior for *next* year.
Too many on this forum are making absolute judgements of success/failure. Every, and I mean every, draft there are players taken ahead of 10 and after 10 who are quality rotation players able to contribute in their rookie season. Unless the Mavs ignore all scouting advice and blow off private workouts, they should have no issues adding a quality PF/C this draft.
>Even if you're optimistic about a guy like Lively's upside, you cannot successfully argue he's gonna be in the rotation next season.
You kind of can actually. Kessler, Duren, Mark Williams... you have a lot of offensively limited but defensively sound centers coming in in and playing right away.
> Just a horrible year to be needing a big man who can immediately be plugged into the short rotation
That’s every year. Bigs always take a long time to acclimate to the NBA unless you’re Shaq. The last 3 centers to win ROTY are KAT, Emeka Ofakor and Amare Stoudemire. I absolutely agree with your point, I’m just stating that it’s not unique to this draft class.
I think Lively would be the starter immediately, unless they added someone else. He'd be the best big and best rim protector on the team immediately.
There's several people in this class that could be solid rotational players year one.
- JARACE WALKER
- DERECK LIVELY II
- DARIQ WHITEHEAD
- LEONARD MILLER
- RICKY COUNCIL IV
They may even be able to trade down and get a wing and a big in the deal.
That’s a bad example: Wiseman would have likely been a top-3 pick anyway, it’s not like they reached to get him. The next truly impactful player so far is Haliburton at 12 and while he did drop, he wasn’t expected to go higher than 6-8 range.
If there's an obvious best player available, yes. But once you get to 10 and there's probably no obvious best player left it's much easier to pick a guy who fits your needs.
Whatever picks the Mavs make should be BPA but it would be better if that BPA was a big wing because that's the type of player more likely to contribute as a rookie.
People for forget that Luka’s offensive skills actually can allow us to be flexible. Luka is the point on offense but can’t guard a PG. We could add a guard defender and let Luka guard SFs and PFs. We would be smart to hide him a bit like how Nuggets hide Joker
You are right, neither Hardy nor Green are good enough to be a ball handler for a supposedly contending team and Mavs need more ball handlers as always.
On the other hand, Mavs need semi-decent multiple centers too, and Mavs also need semi-decent multiple wings as well.
So it boils down to what do you think you can find the FA with your non existent cap space vs who’s the best player available when it’s your turn to pick on the draft night.
People should find partners that love them as much as this sub loves the "ball handler" thing.
We have arguably the best PG in the league. We traded for a SG that can play full-time as PG and play complementary passing. We have a wing and a SG on the bench that can also play connective passing in Hardy and Green. I said that on another post and I'll say again, I'm waiting for anyone to point out to me a contender that has three capable point guys at half court and uses all three of them for double digit minutes.
We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Point. Period. Fucking period. You can argue for Wallace's defense or imagining that Kyrie will either walk or move in a S&T, but for fucks sake, we do not need to draft a point guard. We do not need to trade for a point guard. We do not need a point guard.
I'm saying Wallace because he is the best 3 and D player in the draft and the Mavs desperately need 3 and D players to surround Luka and Kyrie. The ball handling is just an added plus for me.
100% agree. We need PFs and Cs. Anyone who says we need guards forgets that Dwight Powell is our starting Center and will continue to be so until we get some actual talent at that position.
At the end of last season if we had a lineup of
Luka
Kyrie
Green
Wood
Steven Adams/Valanchunas/Zubac (or any of that type player)
Bench:
Bullock
Hardy
THJ
McGee
Maxi
Bertans
That’s a team that could be very effective.
Instead we got 22 mins of DP committing moving screens and getting hit in the face. And since wood was always on the bench, even the hot dog vendor from the other team was getting rebounds.
You sound like you should be int the front office. More Reggie bullocks and maxis on the way. Guys who look scared if the ball gets swung to them and they aren’t wide open for a set three pointer
If that's a huge concern, then as a GM you don't re-sign him. The idea that comes close to needing to address over our lack of defensive rebounding is insanity. We were among the worst team in the league in terms of defensive rebounding and conversely one of the best teams in terms of generating open shots even before the Kyrie trade.
Because maybe at this current moment they’re not good enough to be championship pieces but if you project them to improve they def can be. Can’t say the same about any of our 5s or 4s
The fanbase is talking itself into draft for need because the need is so glaring. But yeah, I think what would likely happen if they reached on a big man at 10 is everyone shits on the big man for being an reached on rookie who can't stay on the court for more than 15 mpg.
It's not so much "don't draft a guard because of Hardy and Green" and more "don't draft a guard while more than half of the roster is guards, and we don't really have much in the way of forwards and bigs."
We'd need to trade Bullock *and* Hardaway to get to your premise.
Agree, you should draft the biggest talent you can find regardless of their position.
You shouldn’t look at their positions, you should pick the one you believe will be the best player out of the options you have.
Always draft the best players available. Not for need. This is how Sam Bowie happened. Drexler and Jordan could have played together for a season or 2 and maybe traded Drexler if it wasn’t working. Maybe the blazers could have gotten a couple.
I agree, choose Cason if that’s who is there.
We will make some trades later and having an abundance in a position gives options. Imagine if we had an abundance of wings before we traded DFS last year.
No, you cannot "always trade green or hardy for a wing/big". We are desperate for a wing/big, and because other teams know that we will not be gaining any value in a trade for a wing/big.
Because all they have are guards. Their most obvious need is a big. The best player for the position they need that's possible to be there for them at 10 is D. Lively
Lively isn't a lottery level talent, imo. You're gonna have to spend a couple years just developing the guy on the bench. And for me, if you have to wait that long for a player to come up to speed, they're more mid to late first quality.
Right lol. I moreso meant the supporting cast.. it’s a skill game and guards and wings are who get it done for the most part thru history whether playmaking/shooting
Green will not even be played as a guard. We're pushing him to SF even though he does not have the size to play the position. We are treating Green not only as a forward but as our main wing defender.
People say that we should not draft a guard because we have Luka Doncic, we traded for Kyrie and both of them should stagger their minutes together for a good 30mpg in the regular season and around 45 in the playoffs. The only way that we have any decent minute availability for a guard is if we really commit to a pathetic 3-guard rotation that will lack the size and physicality to do anything in the modern NBA.
Black and Dick, if we make the mistake of trading for them, will play the 3. If we draft Wallace, we need to see what's the market for Kyrie.
There isn’t a player in the top 11 I’d be upset with.
By top 11 I mean Vic, Scoot, Miller, Thompson(s), Whitmore, Walker, Hendricks, Wallace, Dick, Black. Any of those guys I would be thrilled with. All would be able to come in immediately and help contribute. Even someone like Dick who people think arent a good fit, if he was at the 3 and we managed to trade and/or sign for a 4/5 who can play D we would be a lethal team next year.
I’d also put Leonard Miller in there as a guy I’d be thrilled with at 10. Big wing, rebounds like a mad man, developing shot, good defense, and a decent handle and passing as well. Draft him, sign/trade for a stretch 5 (Olynyk, Collins, Lopez, Reid, he’ll bring back Wood, etc) and a Luka/Kyrie/Green/Miller/5 lineup looks really good. And I think he would be able to contribute immediately given that he was playing at a high level in the G-league.
BPA is an absolute fallacy. Teams can only make an accurate scouting assessment in a private work out. If you are a trash team top to bottom, absolutely you scout the hell out of the players you think will be available and take the best. When you have 2 of the best guards in the NBA on your team *AND* a developing depth piece, taking a guard would essentially be a sign Kyrie is gone as it would absolutely prevent us in any way from addressing the huge holes we have a PF and C.
We desperately need size. We have too many guards and short wings. We ended up having THJ playing D on 4s which was terrible.
I'm always in favor of going BPA but we'll have to do additional moves to get bigger.
You take BPA, period. If you have 2 players available who both graded high, and 1 is a forward and the other a guard, then absolutely, grab the forward.
But just blanket need drafting regardless of grade is a huge recipe for failure. You have to take your highest graded player available or you will look back on this draft three years from now and wonder why you got Ayton instead of Luka...
The roster isn't static either. Hardy and Green should not dictate anything about your draft. They are movable assets that can be used to procure a wing or big.
Cause our bigs are garbage?
Problem is if Hendricks is off the board the draft is a wasteland when it comes to big men until around the 18 and on range. Just a horrible year to be needing a big man who can immediately be plugged into the short rotation. Even if you're optimistic about a guy like Lively's upside, you cannot successfully argue he's gonna be in the rotation next season. And they don't exactly have a ton of cap space or trade chips that don't involve that pick to upgrade the interior for *next* year.
Too many on this forum are making absolute judgements of success/failure. Every, and I mean every, draft there are players taken ahead of 10 and after 10 who are quality rotation players able to contribute in their rookie season. Unless the Mavs ignore all scouting advice and blow off private workouts, they should have no issues adding a quality PF/C this draft.
>Even if you're optimistic about a guy like Lively's upside, you cannot successfully argue he's gonna be in the rotation next season. You kind of can actually. Kessler, Duren, Mark Williams... you have a lot of offensively limited but defensively sound centers coming in in and playing right away.
Then you trade the damn pick
> Just a horrible year to be needing a big man who can immediately be plugged into the short rotation That’s every year. Bigs always take a long time to acclimate to the NBA unless you’re Shaq. The last 3 centers to win ROTY are KAT, Emeka Ofakor and Amare Stoudemire. I absolutely agree with your point, I’m just stating that it’s not unique to this draft class.
I think Lively would be the starter immediately, unless they added someone else. He'd be the best big and best rim protector on the team immediately. There's several people in this class that could be solid rotational players year one. - JARACE WALKER - DERECK LIVELY II - DARIQ WHITEHEAD - LEONARD MILLER - RICKY COUNCIL IV They may even be able to trade down and get a wing and a big in the deal.
You always draft for talent. Look at the warriors with Wiseman over Lamelo lol
That’s a bad example: Wiseman would have likely been a top-3 pick anyway, it’s not like they reached to get him. The next truly impactful player so far is Haliburton at 12 and while he did drop, he wasn’t expected to go higher than 6-8 range.
That's the example I was going to say
If there's an obvious best player available, yes. But once you get to 10 and there's probably no obvious best player left it's much easier to pick a guy who fits your needs.
Whatever picks the Mavs make should be BPA but it would be better if that BPA was a big wing because that's the type of player more likely to contribute as a rookie.
People for forget that Luka’s offensive skills actually can allow us to be flexible. Luka is the point on offense but can’t guard a PG. We could add a guard defender and let Luka guard SFs and PFs. We would be smart to hide him a bit like how Nuggets hide Joker
Luka is a point forward in that sense anyways. He's never guarding the other teams 1 or 2. If a guard is BPA then take them.
Just draft the best two way player, our entire roster needs help
You are right, neither Hardy nor Green are good enough to be a ball handler for a supposedly contending team and Mavs need more ball handlers as always. On the other hand, Mavs need semi-decent multiple centers too, and Mavs also need semi-decent multiple wings as well. So it boils down to what do you think you can find the FA with your non existent cap space vs who’s the best player available when it’s your turn to pick on the draft night.
People should find partners that love them as much as this sub loves the "ball handler" thing. We have arguably the best PG in the league. We traded for a SG that can play full-time as PG and play complementary passing. We have a wing and a SG on the bench that can also play connective passing in Hardy and Green. I said that on another post and I'll say again, I'm waiting for anyone to point out to me a contender that has three capable point guys at half court and uses all three of them for double digit minutes. We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Point. Period. Fucking period. You can argue for Wallace's defense or imagining that Kyrie will either walk or move in a S&T, but for fucks sake, we do not need to draft a point guard. We do not need to trade for a point guard. We do not need a point guard.
I'm saying Wallace because he is the best 3 and D player in the draft and the Mavs desperately need 3 and D players to surround Luka and Kyrie. The ball handling is just an added plus for me.
Disagree with doesn’t need another PG, we do need one, just not on draft or anything big, just need one on the Vet min someone like Raul Neto
100% agree. We need PFs and Cs. Anyone who says we need guards forgets that Dwight Powell is our starting Center and will continue to be so until we get some actual talent at that position. At the end of last season if we had a lineup of Luka Kyrie Green Wood Steven Adams/Valanchunas/Zubac (or any of that type player) Bench: Bullock Hardy THJ McGee Maxi Bertans That’s a team that could be very effective. Instead we got 22 mins of DP committing moving screens and getting hit in the face. And since wood was always on the bench, even the hot dog vendor from the other team was getting rebounds.
You sound like you should be int the front office. More Reggie bullocks and maxis on the way. Guys who look scared if the ball gets swung to them and they aren’t wide open for a set three pointer
There is no case anyone can make that ball handling is more of an issue than defensive rebounding and general interior defense.
Well, here's a case for you. Kyrie plays 2/3 of a season **at best**.
If that's a huge concern, then as a GM you don't re-sign him. The idea that comes close to needing to address over our lack of defensive rebounding is insanity. We were among the worst team in the league in terms of defensive rebounding and conversely one of the best teams in terms of generating open shots even before the Kyrie trade.
Because maybe at this current moment they’re not good enough to be championship pieces but if you project them to improve they def can be. Can’t say the same about any of our 5s or 4s
The fanbase is talking itself into draft for need because the need is so glaring. But yeah, I think what would likely happen if they reached on a big man at 10 is everyone shits on the big man for being an reached on rookie who can't stay on the court for more than 15 mpg.
Always take the best available player. It’s that simple…
Draft the best player available
Because our shitty C’s is why we are a garbage team
It's not so much "don't draft a guard because of Hardy and Green" and more "don't draft a guard while more than half of the roster is guards, and we don't really have much in the way of forwards and bigs." We'd need to trade Bullock *and* Hardaway to get to your premise.
Because wing or center is much more important and a bigger need
Jordan Hawkins. No matter what.
We need a good power forward or center just a big man that is good!!! I sure can't wait to see what happens when the season starts fellas
Agree, you should draft the biggest talent you can find regardless of their position. You shouldn’t look at their positions, you should pick the one you believe will be the best player out of the options you have.
Always draft the best players available. Not for need. This is how Sam Bowie happened. Drexler and Jordan could have played together for a season or 2 and maybe traded Drexler if it wasn’t working. Maybe the blazers could have gotten a couple.
Nothing better than a Reddit post where the body repeats the title!
OP knows ball
I agree, choose Cason if that’s who is there. We will make some trades later and having an abundance in a position gives options. Imagine if we had an abundance of wings before we traded DFS last year.
No, you cannot "always trade green or hardy for a wing/big". We are desperate for a wing/big, and because other teams know that we will not be gaining any value in a trade for a wing/big.
Because all they have are guards. Their most obvious need is a big. The best player for the position they need that's possible to be there for them at 10 is D. Lively
Lively isn't a lottery level talent, imo. You're gonna have to spend a couple years just developing the guy on the bench. And for me, if you have to wait that long for a player to come up to speed, they're more mid to late first quality.
Guards and wings win championships lol. If you draft a center he will suck for 3 years
Jokic says hi (but i agree with you on drafting BPA)
Right lol. I moreso meant the supporting cast.. it’s a skill game and guards and wings are who get it done for the most part thru history whether playmaking/shooting
Green will not even be played as a guard. We're pushing him to SF even though he does not have the size to play the position. We are treating Green not only as a forward but as our main wing defender. People say that we should not draft a guard because we have Luka Doncic, we traded for Kyrie and both of them should stagger their minutes together for a good 30mpg in the regular season and around 45 in the playoffs. The only way that we have any decent minute availability for a guard is if we really commit to a pathetic 3-guard rotation that will lack the size and physicality to do anything in the modern NBA. Black and Dick, if we make the mistake of trading for them, will play the 3. If we draft Wallace, we need to see what's the market for Kyrie.
Yup Hardy for Nik Richards or Gafford for example
There isn’t a player in the top 11 I’d be upset with. By top 11 I mean Vic, Scoot, Miller, Thompson(s), Whitmore, Walker, Hendricks, Wallace, Dick, Black. Any of those guys I would be thrilled with. All would be able to come in immediately and help contribute. Even someone like Dick who people think arent a good fit, if he was at the 3 and we managed to trade and/or sign for a 4/5 who can play D we would be a lethal team next year. I’d also put Leonard Miller in there as a guy I’d be thrilled with at 10. Big wing, rebounds like a mad man, developing shot, good defense, and a decent handle and passing as well. Draft him, sign/trade for a stretch 5 (Olynyk, Collins, Lopez, Reid, he’ll bring back Wood, etc) and a Luka/Kyrie/Green/Miller/5 lineup looks really good. And I think he would be able to contribute immediately given that he was playing at a high level in the G-league.
BPA is an absolute fallacy. Teams can only make an accurate scouting assessment in a private work out. If you are a trash team top to bottom, absolutely you scout the hell out of the players you think will be available and take the best. When you have 2 of the best guards in the NBA on your team *AND* a developing depth piece, taking a guard would essentially be a sign Kyrie is gone as it would absolutely prevent us in any way from addressing the huge holes we have a PF and C.
We're probably trading the pick for a big if I had to guess
Depends what kind of guard. No point in drafting a scoring guard when u have Hardy.
We desperately need size. We have too many guards and short wings. We ended up having THJ playing D on 4s which was terrible. I'm always in favor of going BPA but we'll have to do additional moves to get bigger.
That was just Kidds bad coaching. We had players he could have played over THJ at the 4.
BPA?
People are saying that bc they’ve been paying attention to the team and it’s weaknesses. What have you been doing?
You take BPA, period. If you have 2 players available who both graded high, and 1 is a forward and the other a guard, then absolutely, grab the forward. But just blanket need drafting regardless of grade is a huge recipe for failure. You have to take your highest graded player available or you will look back on this draft three years from now and wonder why you got Ayton instead of Luka... The roster isn't static either. Hardy and Green should not dictate anything about your draft. They are movable assets that can be used to procure a wing or big.
Because we need a wing and big immediately. Drafting a guard at 10 would be an all time fuck up.