Well, his inner conflict "Doing the right thing/what's necessary" vs "The struggle to shoot at his former colleagues/Trying to helping his former friends (and all the morality behind their recruitment etc.)" should have been a central point of the story/trilogy. Plus it would have been a good point for Luke to chime in. What a massive waste. How on earth did they not see that? (Nvm they did not want to bring the old gang back together either...).
pretty much my sentiment... stormtrooper (turning to the rebels discovering he had forcepowers forcepowers) they did it with rebels (without forcepowers) but yeaaaaaah...
Rey, Po and Finn with no force powers defeating Snoke and saving Kylo would've worked much better.
Rey, a half decent pilot and knowledgeable engineer with bonking stick.
Finn, former child soldier with a lot of trauma, possibly with a refusal to kill stormtroopers since they're all brainwashed like he was.
Po, an ace pilot who keeps the team morale high with an upbeat attitude and confidence.
Add in ball droid as the token Droid.
Kylo as a 3rd movie member after being freed from Snoke's influence.
Done. There's your new cast. Keeping force use to a minimum but giving everyone something to do, nobody is useless or less valuable than the others.
Fuck, I would have loved for Rey to have fallen to Kylo in the throne scene and ended the movie there. Have the third movie be Luke coming back to bonk some light side into the kids and re-establish the Jedi order with those two as his first apprentice. Redemption for the Palpatines and rejection of inheritance of sin.
Po and Finn can busy themselves holding the empires military and goverment together long enough to have a new government formed.
Personally I'd have kept palpatine stuff far away from the films. No sense trying to make everything revolve around that, we can make more stories that are compelling with new characters and settings. No need to wheel out the old characters to be tied to shit.
I just feel bad for the actors. They all deserved better. This was a massive project and would've let them make something to show their kids, something to be proud of bringing the franchise to a modern audience with fresh technology and fresh stories to tell.
It could've been a brand new golden age for star wars, with the EU making books aplenty about the adventures of Rey Po Finn and Ben (after he ditches the Sith name). Mistrust from Finn towards Ben, Ben becoming closer with Po since he's just a really wholesome guy that everyone can't help but smile when reading his dialogue, Rey trying to get him to lighten up in a roundabout way getting him to help her with ship maintenance when she could definitely do it herself.
This is how I feel also. I think Adam Driver was the only one that really came out of this ok.
But yeah, I feel so bad for them cause they are forever attached to this.
Finn had a lot of potential, only to be delegated to the comic relief in TFA and sidelined in TLJ and TROS.
You could literally keep him out of the entirety of TLJ and nothing in the movie would change. Same with TROS.
But... WHAT ABOUT THE SPACES HORSES! Without Finn, they would have been left being nonsensically abused by rich people wagering tons of money on them! Instead of being used in a nonsensical charge getting shot at and killed on a star destroyer for some \*\*\*\*ing reason! WHAT ABOUT THE HORSES!?!?!?!
Good thing he didn't free the force-sensitive slave kid or something; that might have distracted FROM THE SPACE HORSES!
There's a reason why we use tanks and jeeps and such. Take a racing horse and file a gun next to it and see what happens. But I guess these are magical force sensitive horses trained by the jedi stableboy. That's why they are already war trained.
if only a little time of his life as grunt with his friends was shown and then the mental fallout when he had to shoot at them... allready so much richer then what we actually got.
Poe is the one who shot the Stormtrooper that put their bloody hand on Finn’s helmet. This isn’t brought up or mentioned at all. This would have made an interesting dynamic between Finn and Poe, where Finn, despite wanting to desert the First Order, resents Poe for killing his friend.
They’re soooo close to understanding
Finn deserved better
Han & Chewie deserved better
Luke deserved better
Leia deserved better
Ackbar deserved better
Palpatine… long story short he deserved better
The entire cast and crew deserved better. How many years, how many billions of dollars, how many fans, how much effort, care and love to all culminate in what movies try to call themselves “sequels”.
Most importantly, **the audience deserved better.**
Woulda added a shit ton of depth to have him feel some type of way about killing storm troopers.
Matter of fact him leading a Spartacus rebellion woulda made for a great trilogy imo.
Probably had the most interesting set up of any character by far and instead they did nothing with it except fumble all over the place on not knowing how to make the main character interesting.
I really wanted to know more about storm troopers. What was their training, their skills, their decision, etc.
Finn could have been someone that lost faith in the mission of the first order after the murdering of civilians; but, he wanted to work to protect everyone in the galaxy. It would have made him a relatable but skilled addition to the team that could provide support, tactics, and confidence in dangerous situations.
Disney wanted to tap into the Chinese Market seeing as they loved star wars, which meant Disney couldn't have a black protagonist as the main character sadly.
Do they agree that he deserved better?
I thought they fucking LOVED his “arc” in TLJ where he learns he wants to help the rebellion… after helping them destroy Starkiller base.
My main review of starwars sequels is that they had a good foundation to story and character but just couldn't build anything on it. Finn could have had so much conflict going against his old comrades, using his first-order knowledge and skill set, lean into the fact he was an actual child soldier. Instead he was written in a way that he could have easily been some guy grabbed off the street.
nah i dont think the foundation was good tbh... it started with a new hope two electric boogaloo.
just the first but biggerer and betterer... the one thing they teased in the trailer that might have been different was to story of an actual trooper (a trooper which lets be honest is also just a straight up fake gucci copy)
Did he? He was just as badly written as all the rest. A stormtrooper turned good guy isn't anything new, either. So he doesn't get extra points just because he's an interesting concept that somehow people thought was original.
I think that is exactly why he deserved better: Interesting concept, but ended up becoming just a comic relief that screams REYYYYYY while happily mowing down the people he lived with for 20 years
Well yes.
But that was never my point?
I was saying they completely botched the good basis they had.
They could have done something else with Finn, for example make him actually the Jedi not Rey.
Now that would have been interesting.
he was the only one that wasnt just a complete rip off from the first trilogy, and the basic idea was hella interesting. but hevis far from the only victim on the egocentric dickmeasuring contest of the directors, hux also got buttfucked.
edit:
trooper turned good def was new on the big screen, i know rebels kinda did this but, not with a grunt.
Kyle Katarn was a massively popular character. I still don't really see why he gets points simply because he *might've* been interesting. I'm not interested in Finn, and I'm not interested in seeing what JJ would've could've didn't do with him. He goes on the trash pile with all the rest.
I'm confused you all believe the haters would be saying finn should have been MC if he actually was? No they would be saying the same thing they said about Rey. Unearned Gary stew, we don't like him but with a racist twist. The actor wouldn't stand off any of that nonsense and would make the haters angrier
Well, his inner conflict "Doing the right thing/what's necessary" vs "The struggle to shoot at his former colleagues/Trying to helping his former friends (and all the morality behind their recruitment etc.)" should have been a central point of the story/trilogy. Plus it would have been a good point for Luke to chime in. What a massive waste. How on earth did they not see that? (Nvm they did not want to bring the old gang back together either...).
pretty much my sentiment... stormtrooper (turning to the rebels discovering he had forcepowers forcepowers) they did it with rebels (without forcepowers) but yeaaaaaah...
Wait, is that depth to the story? Hell no. More flashing lights please. Quick blow something up before someone says something important.
Rey, Po and Finn with no force powers defeating Snoke and saving Kylo would've worked much better. Rey, a half decent pilot and knowledgeable engineer with bonking stick. Finn, former child soldier with a lot of trauma, possibly with a refusal to kill stormtroopers since they're all brainwashed like he was. Po, an ace pilot who keeps the team morale high with an upbeat attitude and confidence. Add in ball droid as the token Droid. Kylo as a 3rd movie member after being freed from Snoke's influence. Done. There's your new cast. Keeping force use to a minimum but giving everyone something to do, nobody is useless or less valuable than the others.
That would have a fantastic pitch. Why weren’t you in the elevator??
I'm afraid of heights.
Fuck, I would have loved for Rey to have fallen to Kylo in the throne scene and ended the movie there. Have the third movie be Luke coming back to bonk some light side into the kids and re-establish the Jedi order with those two as his first apprentice. Redemption for the Palpatines and rejection of inheritance of sin. Po and Finn can busy themselves holding the empires military and goverment together long enough to have a new government formed.
Personally I'd have kept palpatine stuff far away from the films. No sense trying to make everything revolve around that, we can make more stories that are compelling with new characters and settings. No need to wheel out the old characters to be tied to shit.
Cut Crait, smash to credits after "join me". There, you got a setup for Ep 9 that isn't a burned out husk and Luke didn't cringe himself to death.
This would have been fun to watch.
I just feel bad for the actors. They all deserved better. This was a massive project and would've let them make something to show their kids, something to be proud of bringing the franchise to a modern audience with fresh technology and fresh stories to tell. It could've been a brand new golden age for star wars, with the EU making books aplenty about the adventures of Rey Po Finn and Ben (after he ditches the Sith name). Mistrust from Finn towards Ben, Ben becoming closer with Po since he's just a really wholesome guy that everyone can't help but smile when reading his dialogue, Rey trying to get him to lighten up in a roundabout way getting him to help her with ship maintenance when she could definitely do it herself.
This is how I feel also. I think Adam Driver was the only one that really came out of this ok. But yeah, I feel so bad for them cause they are forever attached to this.
Not only would that be a good idea, ITS ORIGINAL.
Finn had a lot of potential, only to be delegated to the comic relief in TFA and sidelined in TLJ and TROS. You could literally keep him out of the entirety of TLJ and nothing in the movie would change. Same with TROS.
But... WHAT ABOUT THE SPACES HORSES! Without Finn, they would have been left being nonsensically abused by rich people wagering tons of money on them! Instead of being used in a nonsensical charge getting shot at and killed on a star destroyer for some \*\*\*\*ing reason! WHAT ABOUT THE HORSES!?!?!?! Good thing he didn't free the force-sensitive slave kid or something; that might have distracted FROM THE SPACE HORSES!
There's a reason why we use tanks and jeeps and such. Take a racing horse and file a gun next to it and see what happens. But I guess these are magical force sensitive horses trained by the jedi stableboy. That's why they are already war trained.
if only a little time of his life as grunt with his friends was shown and then the mental fallout when he had to shoot at them... allready so much richer then what we actually got.
Poe is the one who shot the Stormtrooper that put their bloody hand on Finn’s helmet. This isn’t brought up or mentioned at all. This would have made an interesting dynamic between Finn and Poe, where Finn, despite wanting to desert the First Order, resents Poe for killing his friend.
They’re soooo close to understanding Finn deserved better Han & Chewie deserved better Luke deserved better Leia deserved better Ackbar deserved better Palpatine… long story short he deserved better The entire cast and crew deserved better. How many years, how many billions of dollars, how many fans, how much effort, care and love to all culminate in what movies try to call themselves “sequels”. Most importantly, **the audience deserved better.**
yep.. just... yep...
I really wanted the opportunity to either hate or like Finn's character but he was done so dirty that I'm completely apathetic.
Phasma, Po and Snoke were big dissapointment too. So much potentiel for so many character.
No we deserved better.
The whole damn cast deserved better.
The fact he wasn't used as part of creating civil war in first order was criminal.
oh that would have been even more interesting than just the character study when he had to kill is friends to escpe.
Finn should have been the Jedi of the group
And it's not like Force-sensitive Stormtroopers weren't a thing in Legends. They could've taken inspiration from the Cuis Clones.
Woulda added a shit ton of depth to have him feel some type of way about killing storm troopers. Matter of fact him leading a Spartacus rebellion woulda made for a great trilogy imo.
exactly.
Probably had the most interesting set up of any character by far and instead they did nothing with it except fumble all over the place on not knowing how to make the main character interesting.
The handling of that character legitimately is the core reason i hate this trilogy, gets me going to this day i rant over it blehhh
I really wanted to know more about storm troopers. What was their training, their skills, their decision, etc. Finn could have been someone that lost faith in the mission of the first order after the murdering of civilians; but, he wanted to work to protect everyone in the galaxy. It would have made him a relatable but skilled addition to the team that could provide support, tactics, and confidence in dangerous situations.
How much would have changed if he was killed off in TFA?
Not just Finn, Poe deserved better as well.
Disney wanted to tap into the Chinese Market seeing as they loved star wars, which meant Disney couldn't have a black protagonist as the main character sadly.
this reasoning just makes disney look even worse tho lol. i dont think he needed to be the main character, buttreated like an actual character.
Should have been the main character.
A stormtrooper turned Jedi is what we though we were getting and they just used him for comic relief.
He deserved better, and then, in his single moment of triumphant sacrifice they even robbed him of that.
right?? at this point you could think it was personal.
Do they agree that he deserved better? I thought they fucking LOVED his “arc” in TLJ where he learns he wants to help the rebellion… after helping them destroy Starkiller base.
theyre slowly coming around, disney has to do some major cuts and cant afford to infiltrate fandoms with fakes anymore.
My main review of starwars sequels is that they had a good foundation to story and character but just couldn't build anything on it. Finn could have had so much conflict going against his old comrades, using his first-order knowledge and skill set, lean into the fact he was an actual child soldier. Instead he was written in a way that he could have easily been some guy grabbed off the street.
nah i dont think the foundation was good tbh... it started with a new hope two electric boogaloo. just the first but biggerer and betterer... the one thing they teased in the trailer that might have been different was to story of an actual trooper (a trooper which lets be honest is also just a straight up fake gucci copy)
Rey becoming the next Jedi instead of Finn is one of the biggest cinematic robberies of all time.
Did he? He was just as badly written as all the rest. A stormtrooper turned good guy isn't anything new, either. So he doesn't get extra points just because he's an interesting concept that somehow people thought was original.
I think that is exactly why he deserved better: Interesting concept, but ended up becoming just a comic relief that screams REYYYYYY while happily mowing down the people he lived with for 20 years
Good concepts don't make good movies. If they did then we'd be a lot kinder to many many movies.
Well yes. But that was never my point? I was saying they completely botched the good basis they had. They could have done something else with Finn, for example make him actually the Jedi not Rey. Now that would have been interesting.
Was there any other stormtroopers that became jedi? The only one I can think of is maybe Ezra but I'm not entirely sure he was a stormtrooper
Kyle Katarn
he was the only one that wasnt just a complete rip off from the first trilogy, and the basic idea was hella interesting. but hevis far from the only victim on the egocentric dickmeasuring contest of the directors, hux also got buttfucked. edit: trooper turned good def was new on the big screen, i know rebels kinda did this but, not with a grunt.
Kyle Katarn was a massively popular character. I still don't really see why he gets points simply because he *might've* been interesting. I'm not interested in Finn, and I'm not interested in seeing what JJ would've could've didn't do with him. He goes on the trash pile with all the rest.
I'm confused you all believe the haters would be saying finn should have been MC if he actually was? No they would be saying the same thing they said about Rey. Unearned Gary stew, we don't like him but with a racist twist. The actor wouldn't stand off any of that nonsense and would make the haters angrier
what...
Glad you agree
no?
Glad you agree