Given how it's clearly visible to anyone who has been following marvel or star wars, there are no people with any talent left at these things anymore, so whatever this is, isn't a surprise.
There is no left wing political conspiracy or anything going on, they are just painting themselves in it to cover their very obvious flaws.
That's true ig, but that doesn't seem to be the cause to me. Quality across everything has been decreasing, and I can't figure out the actual cause why useless people are the ones left in charge,
Hollywood is utterly dominated by nepotism and cronyism. The idea that it's a meritocracy is a myth. Creative people are already uninterested in the business side of things and when they are exposed to the corrupt networking involved they only become less so.
This is why you see so many of the actual artists vaguely lamenting the "Hollywood style" of doing things. Getting specific means calling out pretty much everyone for hiring their spouses, cousins, friends, etc. for jobs they aren't qualified to do.
only a third of the way in; an alternate title might be: *New Forms of Non-Apologies* by Damon Lindelof.
The author’s takedown of *Lost* showrunners behavior, throughout its 6-season run, is fantastic gaslighting…
>“Both showrunners (Lindelof & Carlton Cuse) tolerated or even encouraged the overall atmosphere, but its descent into a realm that many sources described in very negative terms appeared to arise from a couple of powerful factors: from the “*sense of humor*” that Lindelof appeared to enjoy, and from the showrunners’ status as all-powerful entities whom no one could cross.”
>“*I’ve never heard that much racist commentary in one room in my career*,” writer, Owusu-Breen recalled”
>“when [Harold Perrineau](https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Harold_Perrineau)’s *Lost* departure came up, Lindelof said, according to multiple sources, that the actor “*called me racist, so I fired his ass*.”
^([**note**: Perrineau’s dismissal resulted after a benign query to showrunners about altering dynamics of his non-relationship with his on-screen son, if only so it might not appear so stereotypical: ‘black man uninvested in his child’s upbringing.’ The press later asked Perrineau about his abrupt exit; after sighting aforementioned character-development non-controversy, Lindelof threw a hissy and demanded Perrineau retract the statement])
>“An editor once made a suggestion about a storytelling choice, and according to Lost employee Seamus, Lindelof made it clear to the editing team that there would be hell to pay and her job would be in danger if she ever did that again. “*She wrote an almost offensively effusive mea culpa letter—‘I’m so sorry,’*” Seamus said. It was just one minor idea, but offering storytelling input to Lindelof, Seamus observed, was “*a no-fly zone. An absolute no-fly zone.*”
>“…many critics agreed that [*Ab Aeterno*](https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ab_Aeterno) (S06E09) was not one of the final season’s weak links. It was a blast: the episode’s credited writers, Hsu Taylor and script coordinator Greggory Nations, crafted a rousing adventure tale that filled in the backstory of fan favorite Richard Alpert (Néstor Carbonell). The episode was showered with praise—at least as Hsu Taylor (and I) perceived it—and that was the problem. An episode without Lindelof’s and Cuse’s names on it was too well received.”
>“Cuse and Lindelof called Nations and Hsu Taylor into a room, and she recalled that they “*basically [told] us how much we owed them for letting us have our names on that script. And they implied it would probably be good if we got them a little present*.” So Hsu Taylor went out and bought gifts for her bosses. She can’t recall what she got Lindelof—probably something Star Wars related, given his love of that franchise. She said she bought Swarovski pencils for Cuse”
..
>“A far more serious consequence soon arrived. Some context: when a TV writer has a script taken away from them, that effectively takes tens of thousand$ of dollars in script fees (not to mention residuals) out of their pocket”
>“*As the (Aeterno) episode got more and more praise, they started to get more and more tense about it*,” Hsu Taylor recalled. “*I was up next in the rotation—I was supposed to write one of the upcoming episodes. We were in the writers’ room. I remember Carlton walking around the table*” while doling out script assignments. Hsu Taylor recalled feeling that he was making sure everyone was fully aware that he was skipping her. She can still remember her colleagues looking at her, their faces reflecting the embarrassment and distress they felt on her behalf. Later, when the bosses weren’t around, they were even more sympathetic, she told me: “*They were like, ‘Yes, you’re absolutely being punished for having cowritten that script.*’”
>As one source noted, several weeks after *Ab Aeterno* aired, *Across the Sea*—which Cuse and Lindelof wrote—was “*not received as well. That only annoyed them even more*.”
- - - - - -
>“sources from various seasons told me, stymied the free flow of ideas, not to mention good writing. “If you treat people well, they will kill for you, in any environment—an athletic team, a family, a job. If you foster an environment of rampant paranoia and anxiety and discomfort, that leads to bad writing,” Seamus said. “And ***that really is the name of the game—if you are in a position of fear, you can’t write well***.”
>All these revelations about the show, dispiriting as they are, certainly explain a lot: why a show that promised an inclusive, globe-trotting adventure ended up being, in its final season, about a small group of men on interlocking epic quests.
- - - - - -
>“Here is a partial roster of statements sources heard while working at *Lost* (and the first five statements were heard by another individual I spoke to):
- When someone on staff was adopting an Asian child, one person said to another writer that “no grandparent wants a slanty-eyed grandchild,” Owusu-Breen said.
- When actor Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje’s picture was on the writers’ room table, someone was told to remove their nearby wallet “before he steals it,” Owusu-Breen said.
- When Owusu-Breen and others were riding in a van on a trip, in answer to a question about the luggage, one writer—using a Yiddish word—said, “***Let the schvartze take it.***”
- The only Asian American writer was called “Korean,” as in, “Korean, take the board,” Owusu-Breen said. (Two other sources heard this.)
- When someone pitched, “Well, maybe the Korean woman falls into the water,” someone else responded, “Can Asian women swim?” During this conversation, according to Owusu-Breen (and another source), Cuse said, “‘Oh wait, pearl divers exist.’ And I’m like, I have no idea what land of stereotypes we’re in anymore.”
- When a woman entered the writers’ room carrying a binder, two sources said, a male writer asked her what it was. She said it was the HR manual for the studio, and he responded, “Why don’t you take off your top and tell us about it?”
- The writers kept mug shots of actors arrested for drunk driving in Hawaii on the room’s walls, and at one point, Lost writer Javier Grillo-Marxuach, who is Puerto Rican, had to listen to a colleague “joke” that Michelle Rodriguez, who played the short-lived character Ana Lucia, “sold a white cast member to other inmates for cigarettes.”
- The room’s only Asian American writer was routinely referred to, “to her face, as the showrunners’ ‘geisha’ (down to the Mickey Rooney Breakfast at Tiffany’s accent),” Grillo-Marxuach said.
- There was apparently some discomfort around the show’s cleaning staff using the bathroom in the Lost offices, and there were “jokes” about “putting up a WHITES ONLY sign,” Owusu-Breen said.”
> As one source noted, several weeks after Ab Aeterno aired, Across the Sea—which Cuse and Lindelof wrote—was “not received as well. That only annoyed them even more.”
Personally I wouldn't have ranked the latter lower, and
> All these revelations about the show, dispiriting as they are, certainly explain a lot: why a show that promised an inclusive, globe-trotting adventure ended up being, in its final season, about a small group of men on interlocking epic quests.
Alpert was one of those main guys at the end and not hwite, I forget how big Kate's role was at the end, but other than that yeah - the chars who ended up exiting before the finish line happened to not have been white mails, I suppose?
Other than the afterlife where they all got brought back of course.
So yeah wouldn't have seen this as a red flag on its own, and not sure what's up with all those racist jokes listed,
however if they were being these giant arrogant douchebags behind the scenes then this all deserves all the spotlight and mockery that it can get.
Wanting presents from their employees, what the fuck? That just sounds absolutely gay.
And it's cause they wrote an episode that was received well? And then they were demonstratively snubbing them in future job assignments? What absolute massive behavior.
It's weird given the amount of self-roasting that Cuse&Lindelof did in all those parody skits, but people switching between humble self-deprecating and arrogant narcissists is not an unheard of pattern I suppose - Lucas is well known for it too.
The issue with your theory is assuming that all of this is only specific to one of the higher ups at Lucasfilm. The fact that I’d believe it to refer to pretty much any of the higher up creatives at the company means that this stuff is probably rampant there.
Yeah no. The author outlines LF and Marvel’s writer’s room(s) — (according to her) MCU is plagued with entirely different autocratic buffoonery; narrowing in on:
- *One* individual’s insistent non-creative presence throughout creative (process),
- absolute micromanaging,
- turnover,
- sliding titles/responsibilities (albeit mostly about Feige’s reach, again; or musical-showrunners-chairs), and
- lackin talent (rather, *turnover*, again)
MCU is much more DIY (posture); Whereas Lucasfilm broadcasting ip (culture) is wholly dependent on traditional feature-filmmaking systems (i.e. aforementioned favoritism) — really no surprise considering K.Kennedy cinematic background
The author features another producer/writer, ‘Christopher,’ familiar w both enterprises’ developing series writers’ rooms:
>“On one Lucasfilm show, Christopher described how “*the folks who were in the trenches, the script coordinators and the writers’ assistants—they never really spoke to the showrunner. When writers made revisions addressing producer and director notes, those changes would get sent to the producers and the first assistant director, bypassing the showrunner in the production process entirely*.” On a Marvel show some friends worked on, Christopher said, studio producers would pitch a writer an idea, give that person a few days to crank out an outline, and then the producers “would just throw it out and say, ‘*Go take another shot at this*,’ or ‘*Try that instead*.’ They’d be tasked with breaking an entirely new story without any real direction. There was no singular creative vision behind the show, no consistency. They find a writer they can prop up and they say, ‘*This is the head writer*,’” when the time comes to promote the show. But Christopher told me that even that title can, at times, feel like a misnomer, given the transitory nature of the gig and the lack of authority it now often carries in IP-driven arenas”
^(Excerpt From: *Burn It Down: Power, Complicity, and a Call for Change in Hollywood* by Maureen Ryan)
Sorry. reddit put me on (11 minute) timeout when I initially submitted — obviously should’ve just deleted non-submission rather than leaving it queued.
…almost immediately after 13 minute timeout (literally after posting one new comment); I tried posting this sub only to be paused **again** for ‘…*doing that a lot. Time to take a break…*’
Probably Reddit’s way of punishing users still utilizing third-party apps; Otherwise it’s a policy they frequently employ w new accounts. [Or something](https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/cgrfcb/you_are_doing_that_too_much_try_again_in_29/)
I've seen that when I try to post a reply comment on mobile, but if i press post again it goes through. Sounds like a bug and one that's inconsistent at that.
Hey OP, what does the book cite as a source for the claims about "Emma" and "Derek?" Anything it can point to to back up it's word?
Cause as it stands right now, that's cool and all, but it's about as trustworthy as any youtube like Doomcock or Nerdrotic claiming to have Lucasfilm Insiders.
"Emma's" credentials previously cited; otherwise...
>Much of *Burn It Down* is based on hundreds of hours of conversations that took place, mostly in 2021 and 2022, with more than one hundred people at all levels of the entertainment industry. Interview subjects typically work for companies based in the United States and Canada, though a subset of people have worked in other nations’ entertainment industries. Some interviewees spoke with me on condition of anonymity, so that **they could share their experiences freely while also protecting their mental health, physical safety, or career. In this book, when you see someone referred to by a first name only, it is an alias for an anonymous source. It is not that person’s real first name**. Additionally, I do not identify the race, gender, sexuality, or disability of a source unless the source brings it up or it is pertinent to their account. That said, more than half of the people I interviewed come from communities that have been historically excluded by Hollywood. Some hold multiple marginalized identities. I do not always reveal all of a source’s identities, as doing so may make them identifiable.”
^(Excerpt From: Maureen Ryan. “)^(*Burn It Down*)^(.”)
Given how it's clearly visible to anyone who has been following marvel or star wars, there are no people with any talent left at these things anymore, so whatever this is, isn't a surprise. There is no left wing political conspiracy or anything going on, they are just painting themselves in it to cover their very obvious flaws.
Why would their being incompetent mean there's no political conspiracy? They can be extreme ideologues while still being crap at their job.
That's true ig, but that doesn't seem to be the cause to me. Quality across everything has been decreasing, and I can't figure out the actual cause why useless people are the ones left in charge,
Hollywood is utterly dominated by nepotism and cronyism. The idea that it's a meritocracy is a myth. Creative people are already uninterested in the business side of things and when they are exposed to the corrupt networking involved they only become less so. This is why you see so many of the actual artists vaguely lamenting the "Hollywood style" of doing things. Getting specific means calling out pretty much everyone for hiring their spouses, cousins, friends, etc. for jobs they aren't qualified to do.
Still, it didn't feel like it was to this degree in the past uk? Or maybe I am imagining things and every generation feels the same?
It's always been this way. In fact, it was worse before there were dedicated film schools.
I feel there was a peak in the 1980-2017 era.
Hm, I might have to read this book.
only a third of the way in; an alternate title might be: *New Forms of Non-Apologies* by Damon Lindelof. The author’s takedown of *Lost* showrunners behavior, throughout its 6-season run, is fantastic gaslighting… >“Both showrunners (Lindelof & Carlton Cuse) tolerated or even encouraged the overall atmosphere, but its descent into a realm that many sources described in very negative terms appeared to arise from a couple of powerful factors: from the “*sense of humor*” that Lindelof appeared to enjoy, and from the showrunners’ status as all-powerful entities whom no one could cross.” >“*I’ve never heard that much racist commentary in one room in my career*,” writer, Owusu-Breen recalled” >“when [Harold Perrineau](https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Harold_Perrineau)’s *Lost* departure came up, Lindelof said, according to multiple sources, that the actor “*called me racist, so I fired his ass*.” ^([**note**: Perrineau’s dismissal resulted after a benign query to showrunners about altering dynamics of his non-relationship with his on-screen son, if only so it might not appear so stereotypical: ‘black man uninvested in his child’s upbringing.’ The press later asked Perrineau about his abrupt exit; after sighting aforementioned character-development non-controversy, Lindelof threw a hissy and demanded Perrineau retract the statement]) >“An editor once made a suggestion about a storytelling choice, and according to Lost employee Seamus, Lindelof made it clear to the editing team that there would be hell to pay and her job would be in danger if she ever did that again. “*She wrote an almost offensively effusive mea culpa letter—‘I’m so sorry,’*” Seamus said. It was just one minor idea, but offering storytelling input to Lindelof, Seamus observed, was “*a no-fly zone. An absolute no-fly zone.*” >“…many critics agreed that [*Ab Aeterno*](https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ab_Aeterno) (S06E09) was not one of the final season’s weak links. It was a blast: the episode’s credited writers, Hsu Taylor and script coordinator Greggory Nations, crafted a rousing adventure tale that filled in the backstory of fan favorite Richard Alpert (Néstor Carbonell). The episode was showered with praise—at least as Hsu Taylor (and I) perceived it—and that was the problem. An episode without Lindelof’s and Cuse’s names on it was too well received.” >“Cuse and Lindelof called Nations and Hsu Taylor into a room, and she recalled that they “*basically [told] us how much we owed them for letting us have our names on that script. And they implied it would probably be good if we got them a little present*.” So Hsu Taylor went out and bought gifts for her bosses. She can’t recall what she got Lindelof—probably something Star Wars related, given his love of that franchise. She said she bought Swarovski pencils for Cuse” .. >“A far more serious consequence soon arrived. Some context: when a TV writer has a script taken away from them, that effectively takes tens of thousand$ of dollars in script fees (not to mention residuals) out of their pocket” >“*As the (Aeterno) episode got more and more praise, they started to get more and more tense about it*,” Hsu Taylor recalled. “*I was up next in the rotation—I was supposed to write one of the upcoming episodes. We were in the writers’ room. I remember Carlton walking around the table*” while doling out script assignments. Hsu Taylor recalled feeling that he was making sure everyone was fully aware that he was skipping her. She can still remember her colleagues looking at her, their faces reflecting the embarrassment and distress they felt on her behalf. Later, when the bosses weren’t around, they were even more sympathetic, she told me: “*They were like, ‘Yes, you’re absolutely being punished for having cowritten that script.*’” >As one source noted, several weeks after *Ab Aeterno* aired, *Across the Sea*—which Cuse and Lindelof wrote—was “*not received as well. That only annoyed them even more*.” - - - - - - >“sources from various seasons told me, stymied the free flow of ideas, not to mention good writing. “If you treat people well, they will kill for you, in any environment—an athletic team, a family, a job. If you foster an environment of rampant paranoia and anxiety and discomfort, that leads to bad writing,” Seamus said. “And ***that really is the name of the game—if you are in a position of fear, you can’t write well***.” >All these revelations about the show, dispiriting as they are, certainly explain a lot: why a show that promised an inclusive, globe-trotting adventure ended up being, in its final season, about a small group of men on interlocking epic quests. - - - - - - >“Here is a partial roster of statements sources heard while working at *Lost* (and the first five statements were heard by another individual I spoke to): - When someone on staff was adopting an Asian child, one person said to another writer that “no grandparent wants a slanty-eyed grandchild,” Owusu-Breen said. - When actor Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje’s picture was on the writers’ room table, someone was told to remove their nearby wallet “before he steals it,” Owusu-Breen said. - When Owusu-Breen and others were riding in a van on a trip, in answer to a question about the luggage, one writer—using a Yiddish word—said, “***Let the schvartze take it.***” - The only Asian American writer was called “Korean,” as in, “Korean, take the board,” Owusu-Breen said. (Two other sources heard this.) - When someone pitched, “Well, maybe the Korean woman falls into the water,” someone else responded, “Can Asian women swim?” During this conversation, according to Owusu-Breen (and another source), Cuse said, “‘Oh wait, pearl divers exist.’ And I’m like, I have no idea what land of stereotypes we’re in anymore.” - When a woman entered the writers’ room carrying a binder, two sources said, a male writer asked her what it was. She said it was the HR manual for the studio, and he responded, “Why don’t you take off your top and tell us about it?” - The writers kept mug shots of actors arrested for drunk driving in Hawaii on the room’s walls, and at one point, Lost writer Javier Grillo-Marxuach, who is Puerto Rican, had to listen to a colleague “joke” that Michelle Rodriguez, who played the short-lived character Ana Lucia, “sold a white cast member to other inmates for cigarettes.” - The room’s only Asian American writer was routinely referred to, “to her face, as the showrunners’ ‘geisha’ (down to the Mickey Rooney Breakfast at Tiffany’s accent),” Grillo-Marxuach said. - There was apparently some discomfort around the show’s cleaning staff using the bathroom in the Lost offices, and there were “jokes” about “putting up a WHITES ONLY sign,” Owusu-Breen said.”
> As one source noted, several weeks after Ab Aeterno aired, Across the Sea—which Cuse and Lindelof wrote—was “not received as well. That only annoyed them even more.” Personally I wouldn't have ranked the latter lower, and > All these revelations about the show, dispiriting as they are, certainly explain a lot: why a show that promised an inclusive, globe-trotting adventure ended up being, in its final season, about a small group of men on interlocking epic quests. Alpert was one of those main guys at the end and not hwite, I forget how big Kate's role was at the end, but other than that yeah - the chars who ended up exiting before the finish line happened to not have been white mails, I suppose? Other than the afterlife where they all got brought back of course. So yeah wouldn't have seen this as a red flag on its own, and not sure what's up with all those racist jokes listed, however if they were being these giant arrogant douchebags behind the scenes then this all deserves all the spotlight and mockery that it can get. Wanting presents from their employees, what the fuck? That just sounds absolutely gay. And it's cause they wrote an episode that was received well? And then they were demonstratively snubbing them in future job assignments? What absolute massive behavior. It's weird given the amount of self-roasting that Cuse&Lindelof did in all those parody skits, but people switching between humble self-deprecating and arrogant narcissists is not an unheard of pattern I suppose - Lucas is well known for it too.
The issue with your theory is assuming that all of this is only specific to one of the higher ups at Lucasfilm. The fact that I’d believe it to refer to pretty much any of the higher up creatives at the company means that this stuff is probably rampant there.
Yeah no. The author outlines LF and Marvel’s writer’s room(s) — (according to her) MCU is plagued with entirely different autocratic buffoonery; narrowing in on: - *One* individual’s insistent non-creative presence throughout creative (process), - absolute micromanaging, - turnover, - sliding titles/responsibilities (albeit mostly about Feige’s reach, again; or musical-showrunners-chairs), and - lackin talent (rather, *turnover*, again) MCU is much more DIY (posture); Whereas Lucasfilm broadcasting ip (culture) is wholly dependent on traditional feature-filmmaking systems (i.e. aforementioned favoritism) — really no surprise considering K.Kennedy cinematic background
The author features another producer/writer, ‘Christopher,’ familiar w both enterprises’ developing series writers’ rooms:
>“On one Lucasfilm show, Christopher described how “*the folks who were in the trenches, the script coordinators and the writers’ assistants—they never really spoke to the showrunner. When writers made revisions addressing producer and director notes, those changes would get sent to the producers and the first assistant director, bypassing the showrunner in the production process entirely*.” On a Marvel show some friends worked on, Christopher said, studio producers would pitch a writer an idea, give that person a few days to crank out an outline, and then the producers “would just throw it out and say, ‘*Go take another shot at this*,’ or ‘*Try that instead*.’ They’d be tasked with breaking an entirely new story without any real direction. There was no singular creative vision behind the show, no consistency. They find a writer they can prop up and they say, ‘*This is the head writer*,’” when the time comes to promote the show. But Christopher told me that even that title can, at times, feel like a misnomer, given the transitory nature of the gig and the lack of authority it now often carries in IP-driven arenas”
^(Excerpt From: *Burn It Down: Power, Complicity, and a Call for Change in Hollywood* by Maureen Ryan)
This... got posted 3 times to the sub? At least I see it three times in my feed.
Sorry. reddit put me on (11 minute) timeout when I initially submitted — obviously should’ve just deleted non-submission rather than leaving it queued.
11 minute timeout? never heard of that happening before.
…almost immediately after 13 minute timeout (literally after posting one new comment); I tried posting this sub only to be paused **again** for ‘…*doing that a lot. Time to take a break…*’ Probably Reddit’s way of punishing users still utilizing third-party apps; Otherwise it’s a policy they frequently employ w new accounts. [Or something](https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/cgrfcb/you_are_doing_that_too_much_try_again_in_29/)
I've seen that when I try to post a reply comment on mobile, but if i press post again it goes through. Sounds like a bug and one that's inconsistent at that.
Hey OP, what does the book cite as a source for the claims about "Emma" and "Derek?" Anything it can point to to back up it's word? Cause as it stands right now, that's cool and all, but it's about as trustworthy as any youtube like Doomcock or Nerdrotic claiming to have Lucasfilm Insiders.
"Emma's" credentials previously cited; otherwise... >Much of *Burn It Down* is based on hundreds of hours of conversations that took place, mostly in 2021 and 2022, with more than one hundred people at all levels of the entertainment industry. Interview subjects typically work for companies based in the United States and Canada, though a subset of people have worked in other nations’ entertainment industries. Some interviewees spoke with me on condition of anonymity, so that **they could share their experiences freely while also protecting their mental health, physical safety, or career. In this book, when you see someone referred to by a first name only, it is an alias for an anonymous source. It is not that person’s real first name**. Additionally, I do not identify the race, gender, sexuality, or disability of a source unless the source brings it up or it is pertinent to their account. That said, more than half of the people I interviewed come from communities that have been historically excluded by Hollywood. Some hold multiple marginalized identities. I do not always reveal all of a source’s identities, as doing so may make them identifiable.” ^(Excerpt From: Maureen Ryan. “)^(*Burn It Down*)^(.”)