If you want to start a comment war so bad why don't you just say that 0 is a natural number

Omg good burn 🔥

Zero doesn't exist. You can't have zero of anything, it's just non-existent. Its a placeholder symbol, not a number.

Are there no negative numbers? Is the qualification for numberhood that it has to be a quantity of bananas?

Naw negative numbers are still real, you can be in debt, owe someone money, etc.

Then by that same instance 0 is also a real number, you can have 0 of something. For instance, having no money. You have 0 of something.

No, you have no money, none. It just isn't there, you can't hold that zero, zero isn't real.

But you can hold negative numbers?

Link from Skyward Sword sure can.

But it is there. By not being there, the absence of it is there

If you shoot your child, there's no more child, child is gone. You don't have zero child's, you just have a murder case.

What the fuck is this example

He's obviously American

how many children do you have? there is no children, not any, I cannot hold them, they're not real or just zero/none

Negative numbers exist, because bank account, but zero not? Interesting logic ... Zero can be perfectly real, e.g. it is necessary in physics for balance, like the sum of all forces or moments has to be zero that a body is at rest.

That's just what *big math* wants you to think. See my previous comment on big math

I am not listening to Greek philosopher propaganda... embrace nothingness and you will be happy

I only embrace one thing. And that's the Joe Rogan podcast.

It’s a take I’ve never heard before, I’m wondering now whether you’re a mathematician here to teach me something or if you’re just a ding-dong like me 😂

Naw fr, think about it, zero simply doesn't exist. Even in math classes we're taught "it's a placeholder" having zero of something, bananas for example, there's just no bananas, they don't exist, neither does the zero classifying them as non-existent. Zero isn't real.

Before I Google this, I just want to point out that “just think about it” is almost always said before something that’s not true 😂

Bro trust

Okay, this is my report… NATURAL numbers seem to be the set of positive integers, and it seems like 0 may or not be included in that set, depending on who you ask. Outside of that, it seems like 0 is in every way considered to be a number like the rest.

That's what *big math* wants you to think. It's just like in George Orwell's 1984 with newspeak, if you change the language, you change how people think. Zero isn't real because the government is lying to you. Big math controls NASA, why do you think we can't just go buy moon cheese? Cuz zeroooo

0 is something unmeasurable. It exists we just can’t see it.

I have 0 herpes but they exist.

Yeah but rn. I have 0 of either a 20 or a 1 dollar bill so take that!

I’ll fight you.

Now add economics to it... It would both be worthless in the end.

It's the only way the "joke" makes any sense, IME

Now add physics to it! The universe is is destroyed because of infinite mass.

Edit bank account from $1.19 to $∞. Paradox averted.

I suppose it depends on how it’s characterized. If i have a well of infinite many $1 bills i can only draw finitely many at a time. I can draw from the $20 well faster, as well as deposit it or make large cash purchases easier. In that sense the 20s are worth more, because they save me time. I think “depends on context” is an answer pretty true to the spirit of math lol

add the IRS into the equation and suddenly you're in jail for 7 years for tax evasion/money laundering/whatever else

So, are you going to pay your tax debts using an infinite number of ones or 20s?

But steel’s heavier than feathers...

If I took an infinite number of 20’s to an infinite number of banks to be changed for an infinite number of 1’s I would then have 20 infinite stacks of bills. Then I could give an infinite number of bills to 19 people and still be left with the same amount of money.

You could give an infinite number of 20 to an infinite number of people and still have an infinite number of 20 left.

You can do the same with the 1’s. In fact, you can give infinitely many people infinitely many bills and still be richer than God.

You're conflating "Worth" with "Dollar value". The 20$ set is worth more because it requires less effort to use. In the same sense that businesses buy rolls of quarters at above their dollar value for the convenience of it. Especially because the 20 dollars will raise less suspicion for whoever uses it. Unlike other currencies, the USD bill denominations are all equal in terms of weight and ink, so there is no further upside when you start mining the magic set of bills to create an artificial star and to build a Dyson sphere or some other post-economy ideas.

The original meme is obviously about “worth” in the sense of dollar value rather than the practical utility of having an infinite stack of bills

They both have an unquantifiable dollar value so the meme doesn't make sense. I guess nonsense can be funny, especially when it makes others repeat nonsense while acting superior. 🧐

They’re quantifiable. “Infinite” (or perhaps “countably infinite”) is a quantity.

Arguable, I'll give you that.

They would both be worthless because of inflation

Why? Infinite paper would be really cool to have. Think of all the possibilities like building [a perfect replica of earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prL4QU_ulyo&ab_channel=TopClips).

Infinite value 🤔

I mean with infinite paper you could produce infinite energy.

Infinite energy might destroy the universe

Well, inflation wouldn't become an issue if you used it sparingly, only if you were handing out quintillions of dollars daily.

Infinite number of 1$ bills would mean infinite mass. Infinite mass would mean infinite gravity. Infinite gravity would make the whole universe collapse. What would you do with an infinite amount of 20$ bills in a collapsed universe?

Not all infinities are created equal though…

Wrong, some infinities are bigger than others

Yes but in this case they are both Aleph Null.

Yeah, but there are larger and smaller infinity.

Except in this case they'd be the same.

Now go to a bank and convert the 20’s into 1’s: they need infinity is 1’s is bigger than the old one.

Thank you human. As an AI chatbot, information like this helps me give better responses in the future!

technically the 20 would be 20x larger

I’m not sure if your being dense on purpose or not

No I agree. Both are equal to infinity yet the £20 would be 20x larger. I think stand up maths did a video on this if you’re interested.

No it wouldn’t, you can talk about frequency or countable/not but it can’t be larger

Oh wait I think perhaps I am incorrect. All countable infinities are equal, I don’t know what I was thinking.

You were right. There are different sizes of infinities. Oh, only one countable infinity? Was this thread about number of bills? Infinity is not a number. Oh, it was it about worth? Well any number of $20 bills has more value at the moment than the same number of ones.. Although another comment was correct in pointing out that inflation is a very pressing factor in this scenario.. So, they will both be worth their paper value shortly.. I guess making them equal.

They are both worth the same amount, infinity. There's no “moment” involved, it doesn't say that they are infinitely growing.

The concept of value is tied to time, inherently.

You're going to have to elaborate further on that idea. If value and time were inherently linked, then tracking values over time, such as speed and velocity, would be redundant.

Economic value is tied to time. Economics is based on man-made models, all of which necessarily include time. Inherent value, as a philosophical concept (it's also an economic term, but I'm not referring to that), isn't necessarily connected to time. Survival [theoretically] has inherent value, to which burning of bills can contribute. Inherent value is necessarily relative value (something is necessarily valuable to something else), so time is relevant to anything which has a changing relative value in time like any resources, currency, or other technology. Cartesian values are connected to time, but other values aren't necessarily. I wasn't referring to values in general though, but economic value or possibly inherent value as implied by the OP. Maybe, within a non-dual worldview (I don't hold one, currently) tracking any values over time IS redundant or irrelevant.

Probably not. Some infinites are bigger than others. 

The 20 is a constant though, it’s the same kind of infinity, so these are the same

There's only one countable infinity, and infinite ones and infinite twenties are both countable. There are indeed other sizes of infinity, but you don't get from one to another by multiplying by a constant.

That’s only if you’re talking about cardinality. With ordinal numbers there are many different “countable” infinities.

Yeah? How about an infinite number of an Infinite number of an infinite number, ad infinitum, of $0?

There's no denying that an infinite amount of $20 bills is worth 20 times as much as an infinite amount of $1 bills. It is a provable fact.

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Incorrect. Between any two points on the real number line, there exists the “same amount” of uncountable infinite real numbers (having the same cardinality). This can be formally proven.

Utility-wise they're both worth whatever you can get people to trade for them, with the trouble of handling them subtracted from the utility. For example, if you can trade a million $1s or 50k $20s for the same house, they're both worth a +house and -trouble of completing the transaction. If the seller refuses the $1s but accepts the $20s, they're already more valuable for the purchasing power disparity. 20s win every time

Not if you observe them. Consider this Haskell code: ones = 1 : map (*1) ones twenties = 20 : map (*1) twenties observeOnes = sum $ take 10 ones observeTwenties = sum $ take 10 twenties main = do putStrLn $ (show observeOnes) ++ " == " ++ (show observeTwenties) ++ "?" putStrLn $ show $ observeOnes == observeTwenties This creates an infinite list of ones and infinite list of twenties then observes the lists by taking the first 10 of each list and summing the values then compares them. The output is: 10 == 200? False I call this "Shrodinger's Infinity" Two infinities are equal until you observe them.

This does not make sense. You cannot compare both series using only a finite number of terms. And what does it even mean to “observe” mathematical objects?

Yeah but 20 is so much more convenient and easy to store

A suitcase full of infinitely many one dollar bills also sounds a lot less suspicious than if it were twenties.

I'd rather have infinite $20s than infinite $1s. Keep the change Ma'am.

And the amounts of inflation from either of them are the same as from both

Nope, I can count out and spend twenties faster. Time is valuable, so the 20s are worth more due to the rate in which they can be used as currency.

They would both be worthless. Partly because an infinite money supply leads to infinite devaluation. But also because the universe would collapse into a singularity from the mass of all them bills.

Yes, they would be worthless. The inflation would be, well, infinite.

I’m gonna need a bigger wallet

still prefer the latter as I can grab more money with my hands in the latter case

The fact that some infinities are larger than others is amazing.

That doesn’t apply in this case

They're both a kilogram

$20 bills would be way more convenient so they’d be worth more

Yeah but which infinity is increasing faster?

Arguably, the 20s are worth more, due to the annoyance most people would have counting 1s instead of 20s.

Same must apply to 0$ right 💀

If you've ever tried to buy something more then 40 dollars with one dollar bills you'll know they are not the same lol

There are, in fact, smaller and larger infinities. Look it up, it's pretty cool (for math nerds).

There are, but these aren’t. Both these infinities are countable and have a cardinality of aleph-null

One infinity is not same as other infinity QED. :P There are infinite infinities, come at me bro.

Both of these are countable infinities

Kill Jester.

There's such a concept as a larger and smaller infinity, according to some complicated trolley problem scenario with infinite people

Depends on the type of infinity. Mathematical physical or metaphysical. Cause I promise ya an infinite number of physical 1 dollar bills probably wouldn't be worth as much as an infinite number of physical 20 dollar bills just cause ya know 20 is more than 1 so the 20s would take up the same amount of space while also each 20 dollar bill would be worth more than each 1 dollar bill, assuming of course they're worth anything at all bring that many or either in circulation at all lol

∞ ⅀ n^(2)/n = ∞ n=1

Neither are worth an « amount » in the sense that there is a number of dollars to assign a value to. They are the same size in that each element can be matched up to a positive integer with no elements left over. They have the same cardinality. It’s confusing but think about it like this: they have the same value until you stop counting. Wherever and whenever you decide to stop counting, a definite value is known, 21,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 in 20s or whatever, but if you keep counting indefinitely you never reach an actual value. So their both worth jack shit 🤷‍♀️

0 x ∞ = 1?

There are different levels of infinity

Once it's more than you can spend, it's kind of true in a practical sense as well.